#beth gets meta

[ev1lmorty]

feel v mean calling out soecific meta but im still kindve fuming over a post i saw w a bit too much engagement a few months ago implying erick couldve never gotten physical w emorty bc if he had emorty wouldve not put up w him as long or wouldve easily been able to defend themself actually it was a poll like. rallying abt what kind of abuse everyone thought emorty had endured like placing bets on how badly rick brutalized him. have we lost the fucking plot lol

[daenerysstormreborn]

Time to ramble. I’m thinking about the way Arya and Sansa fans seem to get into this debate about who was more lonely and neglected in Winterfell. Which is kind of funny because then the arguments get totally reversed when debating other aspects of the characters. But anyway. The general arguments seem to be:

1. Arya was clearly the neglected outcast. This is clear in the meta narrative because of her connection to Jon and the fact that she doesn’t look like her true born siblings. The more direct evidence comes from the way Sansa and Jeyne teased her, the harshness of Septa Mordane, and Catelyn’s exasperation. It can be inferred that Arya feels a sense of insecurity wrt to her family ties as she wonders if her own mother would want her back after everything that happened. It can be assumed that she was a bit of an outcast based on her disinterest in the things expected of her as a girl, and we see the way many characters look down upon non-conforming women and girls in-universe. Sansa, on the other hand, receives praise from her mother and the septa and has two named close friends in Winterfell. She happily conforms to what is expected of her as a highborn girl and we can assume she would fit in in Winterfell.

2. Sansa was clearly the neglected outcast. This is clear in the meta narrative because she is the only one to lose her direwolf, which is the family symbol. The more direct evidence comes from contrast with Arya, whom Sansa observes can “make friends with anybody,” seemingly in contrast to herself. Ned agreed to kill Lady despite knowing she was innocent and indulged Arya’s interest in swordplay whilst being unenthusiastic about indulging Sansa’s interest in tourneys. Arya is demonstrated to be beloved by Ned’s men in a way we do not observe with Sansa. We can assume that Sansa didn’t feel like she belonged because of her interest in sothron culture, something none of her siblings share. Arya, on the other hand, is extroverted, makes friends easily, is northern in appearance, and has no interest in sothron culture, so we can assume she fit in in Winterfell.

I actually don’t think a lot of the points in the two arguments is mutually exclusive. We also have to remember POV bias. Arya doesn’t reflect on Any friends her age she had at Winterfell (I am not including Mycah because I am under the impression they became friends on the way to King’s Landing), but Arya is not one to reflect and reminisce. Sansa notices that Arya can make friends with anyone, but she doesn’t experience Arya’s inner world. What does Sansa mean by making friends? Does she see Arya having fun and being at ease talking to anyone and feel envy, since she herself feels like is performing, always minding her manners, when she’s socializing with most people? Could it be that Arya is friendly but struggles to find long term close friends like Jeyne and Beth, attributing this disparity to Sansa’s “ladylike” interests? Could it be that being teased by Sansa and her friends and scolded by Catelyn and Mordane has made Arya assume that other girls wouldn’t be interested in close friendship with her, causing her to be friendly but keep a certain distance? (**please note I am not trying to make a case for nlog Arya. I think keeping a distance because you assume you’ll be rejected is different and does not require that she looks down upon other girls, because there is no evidence for that here**)

I don’t have a good conclusion I just think it’s interesting that this is something that gets debated because the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. We can’t know because we get very few flashbacks and the story picks up when their normal lives in Winterfell end. I can’t speak to George’s intentions but if we pretend they’re real people I’d speculate that both would have felt misplaced within Winterfell at times, envying certain traits about the other

[brujahinaskirt]

Okay, I obviously made the above post as a leetle joke, but since it's getting not insignificant traction, I do want to offer a more serious note.

I love this about Arthur. It's probably my favorite thing about him, but let me use this fresh new RDR2 meta post to clarify exactly what I mean. Despite the aspects of his personality & appearance that are traditionally hypermasculine, and despite how often he is annoyed with people (especially incompetents or people who meddle with his plans), Arthur is decidedly NOT annoyed by the social performance of femininity or by traits that are/were frequently stereotyped as feminine. Ever. Regardless of subject. I might go so far as to say he seems to canonically prefer hanging out with women and with "feminine" men.

Your long-winded, bullet-pointed analysis is below!

The Girls. Most noticeably, Arthur actually sits down to talk with and actively confides in the camp Girls (Tilly, Mary-Beth, Karen) more than anyone else around. These three are the most traditionally "girly" (single, 20s, active, pretty, unattached, highly social, feminine, chatty) members of the gang, though of course they are still criminals and don't perfectly adhere to all period-typical standards of feminine comportment. He doesn't mock the girls** like he sometimes does with other auxiliary members of the gang (like Uncle and Pearson, playful or not). Notably, he doesn't even gently tease Mary-Beth for writing her "silly" romance novels, a highly feminized hobby which she speaks about in a self-depreciating manner, much like Arthur speaks about his own artistic hobbies. Rather, he talks to her about writing like a peer and encourages her to write more by going out of his way to get her a nice pen. Crucially, there is no canon romantic or sexual interest in any of the girls on Arthur's behalf. He just feels the most comfortable in their company and seems to value their advice/opinions on life the most. To me, this is much stronger proof than his forever-burning torch for the cultured & ladylike Mary, which is (or was once) rooted in romantic desire. ** Unless the player persists in Antagonizing them, and these lines (while sometimes shockingly cruel and offhandedly sexual in nature; see Arthur teasing Tilly about pursuing Javier) are largely about goading them for laziness or, in Karen's case, her alcoholism. That said, many of the Antagonize lines strike me as clumsily tacked-on & poorly rooted in canon, which could indicate: (1) an Arthur who is deliberately trying to be disruptive (a generous interpretation), or (2) writers instructed to add throwaway content that will make a certain type of childishly misanthropic gamer (think 13 y.o. boys) squeal in glee with relatively low impact on the overall story.

Campmates. Following the above point... who doesn't Arthur hang out with much? The manly men of the gang; the very people social mores suggest he ought to be hanging out with. Bill, Micah, Joe, Cleet, and even Dutch. (To some extent, this includes John and Sean, but I'd say John sort of lives at the edges of gang life anyway, and Sean is, well, Sean.) Conversely, which male gang members does Arthur hang out with a lot? Sweet little bookish Lenny, a wordy, positive-energy, breezy intellectual who has just barely become an adult. Introspective, soft-voiced, long-haired Charles, who is traditionally masculine by some standards (strong, usually calm, can be standoffish) but decidedly NOT so when his appearance/demeanor is judged by the white Christian American male standards that began to dominate masculinity concepts in the later decades of the 1800s.

Algernon. Oh, my, Algernon. Arthur clearly dislikes Algernon's fancy, loud, outrageous clothing. But weirdly, he seems to like Algernon, not just tolerate him. Arthur in fact goes through significant personal discomfort to avoid hurting Algernon's feelings (the awful hat, the POST.MAN. sobbing), and he immediately says yes to having tea with him without any awareness of a coming business proposition, though half the time Arthur clearly has no fucking clue what Algernon is talking about. I am left to conclude that on some level, he just enjoys hearing Algernon talk, which is word-for-word what he says while listening to the Girls argue about romance novels ("I just like listening to you [all] talk." Hello????). I mean, for God's sake, he meets the man while he's choking to death on a nut at a fancy party, and the second thing Algernon does is tell him he looks like a guy who wears a corset. If anything was going to set off the boiling defensiveness of a dude who worships masculinity, thirty seconds with Algie would have done it.

Margaret, Mistress of Fucking Danger. It's pretty clear Arthur doesn't like Margaret. But that has little to do with Margaret's femininity & cross-dressing (this doesn't faze him at all when Charles Châtenay does it; more on that below) and everything to do with Margaret's deceptiveness and highly selective memory. It's not until the bullshittery unveils itself that Arthur starts getting visibly pissed off at Margaret. Conversely, Arthur does seem more positively disposed toward Sally Nash. (That said, this quest has a lot of problems and poorly aged lines that are depressingly easy for a politically motivated jerkoff to soundbite and miscast as Rockstar being pro-bigot. Cue 800 heterobnoxious gamerbro ARTHUR MORGAN ULTIMATE ANTI SNOWFLAKE SIGMA MALE OF THE WEST YouTube videos.)

Albert, my beloved. Rather than goading him to man up, Arthur tries to persuade Albert (whom he very obviously likes) to pick safer animal photography subjects, e.g. horses, and doesn't insult him for his lack of wilderness knowledge (an aspect of traditional manliness that is highly relevant to Arthur's lifestyle). You'd think he would tear into him for this shortcoming, given that they share so many of the same interests and passions, and IMO his genuine eagerness to serve as Albert's protector and facilitate his art is highly convincing evidence that Arthur does not necessarily view masculinity as a net positive.

Arthur is a basic goddamn boyfriend-hater. He pretty much harshly disapproves of every husband, boyfriend, male partner, etc. in the game and is very, very vocal about it... except one extremely unlikely candidate: Beau Gray. Weak, dandy artist Beau Gray, whom Arthur takes one look at and promptly hands the only gun to Penelope. Arthur is curt and impish to Beau at times, but helps him in his relationship troubles willingly (without collecting repayment), and seemingly for no other reason than the fact he can see that soft, fearful Beau is genuinely head-over-heels in love with Penelope. Is he projecting his own young love for Mary onto them? Maybe/probably, but Beau could not possibly be more different from young Arthur, and Arthur seems to believe this difference will make him a good husband for Penelope. A good husband, in Arthur's view, seems to simply be a man who ardently loves his beloved, regardless of his ability to provide for/protect her, and whose only goal in life is to live that life at her side. This is completely antithetical to mainstream late-1800s views on what constitutes a good husband and what it means to be a man.

Châtenay. Arthur shows us some of the most obvious delight and mirth he experiences in the game when he's hanging out with Charles "Allo Boys" Châtenay, who is straight up in drag a third of that time. This baffles Arthur a little, but doesn't disgust or repel him. I've written about this mission elsewhere at greater length because it is one of my favorite disasters, but it's worth mentioning here too.

Trelawny. Arthur clearly enjoys Trelawny despite his grumbly claims to the contrary. Most of these "claims" are just Arthur's established way of affectionate teasing (he does much the same with Uncle and Pearson, both of whom he genuinely likes). His authentic gripes about Trelawny are all about a perceived flightiness/lack of loyalty to the gang, not about his flamboyance. And even these gripes are half-assed, in Arthur's usual way.

Bluegills & Daisy Chains. One of the most genuine moments of softness we have with Arthur in RDR2 is when he takes Little Jack out of the camp to go fishing. Arthur's usually a much truer version of himself when he doesn't have to play the Big Bad Gang Lieutenant role, but this moment of escape is especially important, and not just because Arthur reveals his fondness for children and his natural understanding of how to talk to them. I notice this: Arthur tries to gently teach Jack about fishing, and Jack is completely fucking uninterested. Jack prefers to make flower chains for his mommy. Arthur doesn't scold him for his drifting attention or his lack of attraction to masculine past-times; on the contrary, Arthur goes out of his way to encourage and protect Jack's natural sweetness and innocence. That's a wild stance for a murdering outlaw to have re: the "next generation" of his family. Hell, I've encountered far too many 21st century dads in my own family who flip their shit when their tiny sons prefer hanging out with women & partaking in "womanly" hobbies like art, cooking, and flowers rather than hunting and fishing.

"...and be a god damn man." This seems like classic masculine bluster on the surface, but what does this keynote line mean in the context in which Arthur says it? Well, it's complicated. This statement serves as (a) Arthur's goodbye to John, (b) Arthur's final call to action for John, and (c) Arthur's last wish for his brother's life. But it certainly does not mean standing and fighting or being tough; i.e., "dying like a man." In that moment, it means abandoning all masculine bluster and revenge fantasy, and running away: leaving violence and fighting and brotherhood and all that crap behind to simply be there (alive, present) for your wife and son.

The Best Women People. Who are the best people Arthur knows, by his own crystal-clear declaration? Abigail and Sadie. Sadie's a rough-and-tumble, super-violent gunslinger and Abigail's a stubborn thief & a former sex worker (in the time Arthur has known her), but they are also, critically, two wives: the most traditional feminine role for a woman of the time period (and indeed perhaps most of human history once the concept of "wife" subsumed that of "mother"). It's also important to note that Arthur doesn't truly give up on Dutch until Dutch abandons Abigail, which serves as Arthur's point of no return. The other men left in the gang at this point specifically note that she's "just a woman" and not worth going back for. Arthur is straight-up shocked by all of this; he obviously considers her among the most worthwhile and value-having members of the gang, and certainly one of the most core members of the gang. Without any hesitation or doubt, the instant it's clear Dutch is cutting Abigail loose, Arthur declares: "That's that, then."

tl;dr: Arthur unironically prefers hanging out with women and queens and I love that for them.

[thesoftboiledegg]

I wasn't sure what to make of "That's Amorte" before it aired. When signs pointed toward "the spaghetti comes from aliens," I wondered if we had a rehash of Futurama's "The Problem with Poppers," where the crew finds a delicious treat on a planet only to learn that the "popplers" are underdeveloped alien offspring.

Rick and Morty's take on Soylent Green also seemed likely. Everyone knows the twist: Soylent Green is people! A dark sci-fi concept like that could be a ripe parody for this series.

However, "That's Amorte" adapted a concept that other shows have referenced a thousand times and took a right turn. No one's angry at the humans for eating their suicide victims: in fact, they love the spaghetti and turn it into a corporate product.

This is an obvious shot at capitalism and how companies will destroy the environment, brutally slaughter animals and turn cities into concrete wastelands just to make a buck. And I mean--chowing down on this spaghetti isn't that different from eating meat. I'm an omnivore, but I kept thinking that at least these pasta producers chose to die.

The suicide element gave this episode a poignant touch instead of turning it into an edgelord slog where the humanoids kill people and throw them in a meat grinder. Admittedly, the clones leaned in that direction, and that scene also shows how Rick struggles to understand the world outside himself. He doesn't react when the clones kill each other, but one of his daughters is a clone, and he'd be horrified if anything happened to her.

On its own, "That's Amorte" is a great episode. However, when you take the whole series into account, the plot retreads the same old Morty narrative: Morty tries to do the right thing, it backfires, Rick dodges responsibility while antagonizing Morty to be petty, Rick gets stuck fixing everything and Morty tries to pretend it never happened.

I keep waiting for something good to happen to Morty. Rick has plenty of episodes where he makes positive changes: going to therapy ("Analyze Piss," "Air Force Wong"), improving his relationship with Jerry ("Final DeSmithation," "The Jerrick Trap"), trying to do right by Beth ("Bethic Twinstinct"), being kinder to Morty ("Full Meta Jackrick"), etc.

Season five doesn't emphasize his character development as much, but plenty of scenes show how much he's changing. Even season four has moments where he's gentler.

Rick's being his petty season-two self in "That's Amorte," but even here, he does the right thing by showing the world exactly what--and who--they're eating. In earlier seasons, he would've done that just to be an asshole. Here, I don't think that he was trying to torment people as much as he just knew that this spaghetti shitshow had to end.

Same with the spaghetti itself. He didn't feed it to the Smiths, then show them the dead body just to torture them. I think he genuinely wanted to share the spaghetti because it was delicious, but he also figured that they don't want to know where it comes from.

On a similar note, I enjoyed Rick's moments of physical gentleness. Great animation detail.

So Rick gets a little character development and saves the day again, and Morty gets...nothing. Just a rehash of old storylines. "Mortynight Run" in particular has almost the same plot, beat-for-beat.

"That's Amorte" touched on Morty's depression and his family's coldness toward him but didn't go further than that. Morty keeps cycling through the same issues with no resolution. He blows up in one episode, then shuts down the next. His attempts to do the right thing go astray. When's this kid going to catch a break?

Again, this episode isn't bad. It's funny, original and well-written and has a lot to say about ethics and capitalism. Still, I don't understand why reviews on other sites keep emphasizing Morty's character development because I didn't see much.

I will say that everyone's horror at where the spaghetti comes from was a great takedown of the meat industry. Everyone loves sausage, but nobody wants to see how it's made!

Still, next time we get a Morty episode, I hope that it says more about him and less about the world outside his cartoon.

[trigunbookclub]

TrigunBookclub Afterparty!

Hello there! As bookclub winds down to a close, there a few things to announce:

Bookclub Afterparty!

Bookclub may officially be over, but the Trimax brainrot continues! There are some bonus comics, the Multiple Bullets anthology (with all its great and terrible stories), and some folks have fallen behind, have essays left to write, or have things they wanted to create or share and haven't had a chance. I myself fell behind since life has been a bit hellish on my end, I'm two volumes behind--and I don't seem to bethe only one in that position!

So, I want to invite people to keep using and watching the tag until the end of October! Discuss, share theories, thoughts, art, shout-out posts and ideas that you love, just have fun! You can discuss the entire series and all related materials--hell, you can even do a read/reread it if you want to. Whatever goes, so long as it follows the guidelines.

Bookclub 2.0!

I've been talking with the @trigun-manga-overhaul team, who we all know has the best Trigun manga translation out there--but it's about to get better with Overhaul 2.0! When it drops probably next year, it will be at the pace of a chapter a week, and I plan to run the bookclub during that time to celebrate! This gives much more time for discussion, comparing, analyzing, and keeping up with posts. Since it will be a longer reading time and it's round two, spoilers will be allowed, though I will ask that they be tagged.

I also highly encourage everyone to feel free to use the tag when the hardcovers from Dark Horse are released to celebrate and discuss!

Bookclub Archive!

Since social media has a tendency to be ephemeral at best, the lovely @versaphile has taken it upon themselves to archive the bookclub posts of everyone who gives permission for them to do so! This way you can binge meta and posts and find everything much more easily. You can find the archive here, and see an example of archived posts here. If you're interested in or okay with being included in the project, please contact @trigunreferencelibrary!

Bookclub Stickers!

Multiple people have talked about wanting a badge of honor for participating in/keeping up with bookclub, and I think that might be a bit tricky... but how about some stickers? I figure that this way, the shipping is affordable even for international folks since I've seen a good amount of people around the world participating and lurking! I'm going to try and find printing for as affordably as I can (if anyone out there knows any good distributors for smaller batch sticker orders, please shoot me a DM!), and it won't be something to profit off of--just in memory of a great time! The only thing is I have two options, and I don't know if either of them are even what folks want. So...

And that's all that I can think of for now! I'm a bit exhausted and run ragged at the moment, so feel free to ask for any clarification on anything. When I started this project, I honestly didn't think I'd get many if any people following through--I know people lose their focus easily (myself included). But instead it turned into a huge celebration of a beautiful manga that is finally getting the attention it deserves after kind of getting buried by time. I've met some absolutely amazing and brilliant people throughout this event, and I just want to say thank you to every single person who made a post, supported others, and/or just lurked. You guys are fantastic and made this an amazing experience.

[shrinkthisviolet]

It's Love Letters Night! Send love and positivity to your favorite writers and bloggers!

This got really long so I’m sticking it under a cut 😅:

@negative-speedforce you are absolutely amazing. I love your posts and fics, I love Siv, and I love how much you love Nora (your fic about both versions of Nora sharing a name and the ✨insecurity✨ that would cause lives in my head RENT-FREE) and!! You’re an Iris and Reva defender just like me!! 🥰

@vexic929 you’re so amazing and fun to talk to! You have such wacky off-the-wall ideas and you make them work so well and I love you for it 💞 Malcolm, Berrie, and Beth in particular are so dear to me, and so are their fics!

@goldheartedchaoticdisaster you’re so fun to talk to, especially the OUAT stuff lately 🥰 I also always appreciate seeing your comments on my fics, they’re always long and wonderful and you’re just a delight. I can’t wait to see how you write Rowan, I love Nicky and Stephanie, I love your characterization of Mike Barnes and his family (canon to me!! Everyone read “bad boy (no more)”, it’s so good), and your CK Mini-Rewrites? *chefs kiss* you should’ve written the show

@angst-is-love-angst-is-life you pulled me into my current whump fixation headfirst 😂 I love reading through the whump prompts on your sideblog (@whump-is-love-whump-is-life, for anyone who wants to check it out), and I love talking to you 🥰 you also make me cry with how much you hurt Barry in Trophy and 12 hours, but I respect the whumpy endeavors

@fezwearingjellybananas you’re such a delight 🥰 you pulled me into Snowest with “Milk and Sugar”, your fics are so fun to read (and often a niche/novel premise), and I love seeing your sweet comments on my fics! I also so love the cycle of inspiration we’re in 😂 (for context, they got inspired by my Morgan AU to write Speedster Siblings, which (along with Gone in a Flash) then inspired me to write my Daddy Issues AU)

@starstruckpurpledragon (aka @kitkatt0430), you are wonderful and amazing and you’ve written so many amazing fics and meta for this fandom!! You have great takes, super interesting ideas…and you’re so wonderful to talk to. You also (along with @alittleflashvibe) pulled me into Saverb with “You Must Live (For Me)” 😂 much appreciated for that

@alittleflashvibe you are a delight and incredible and your Barrisco takes are such a highlight of this webbed site 💞 you always get me to see something new in their scenes, it’s terrific. You also pulled me into shipping Barrisco in general 😂 (you and @starstruckpurpledragon, as I mentioned above)

@frosty-the-killer-doll hiii I know we don’t talk a lot but I just wanted you to know you’re incredible and I love your takes on Caitlin and Frost—you’ve gotten me to see them both in new ways (that web weaving post about how Frost’s instinct to protect was corrupted by vengeance?? That was inspired, and it’s only one of your many great takes about her and Caitlin!). I also love love LOVE the Jesse fic you wrote, it’s like you read my mind fr 💞 love having you as my mutual

@icedteaandoldlace you’re so wonderful too! I’ve loved following along with your comments as you read my Morgan AU…and you’ve given me such a wonderful appreciation for Kamilla and Kamisco. Your Kamilla & Caitlin friendship fic is so sweet and I love it to pieces

@blackaquokat where to even begin 😅 we’ve been mutuals for like…what, years now? I don’t even remember how it started, but I DO remember your WKM fics and how incredible they are 🥰 your OC for the DA is absolutely how I view them, and your fics are so canon to me, you deserve all the love for crafting such a meticulous world from the pieces Mark gave us.

@seek--rest your fics are OUT OF THIS WORLD and so are your takes!! You’re one of my favorite Spidey fic authors (and that’s a very short list 😂), you’ve gotten me to see him and MJ in such incredible new ways (Irondad but make it MJ!! Ingenious!!), and you have great takes overall (your post-Blip meta my beloved!!), here and in the discord. You also wrote the May & Sally fic of my DREAMS!! Some people might call you an “absolute displeasure to know”, but I couldn’t disagree more, you’re wonderful 💞

@abcd-em on the note of “Irondad but make it MJ”, Vagary lives in my head rent-free 💞 you’ve written PeterMJ in so many wonderful ways, but that in particular really sticks with me. And you’re such a sweet person in general

@hollow-dweller speaking of great takes…hollow you’re practically oozing with them, here and on the discord. I always come away learning something, and you just have so many amazing thoughts?? Also I keep thinking about the Peter & Jessica fic you wrote like…oh my god?? Inspired?? I must applaud you 👏👏

@robbyykeene your CK takes are so incredible, you’re the first account I go to for them, I love reading your posts. You’re so right 💞

@leohttbriar i adore your fics! Your Samtory ones live in my head rent-free, and so does “for what do we live (but to make sport for our neighbours)” like!! You Get It!! You Get Penelope and Charlotte!!

@jenpsaki I can hardly talk about Samtory and not mention you, when you’re the one who pulled me into this ship with “different but same” 🥰 and thank you so very much for that

@arrthurpendragon you are a key pillar of the OC community and so wonderful 🥹 thank you for hosting that exchange event back in July of last year, it pulled me into the OC community and I’m so grateful for it

@lady-of-the-spirit you’re delightful to talk to, you have great takes for pretty much everything (ESPECIALLY Star Wars), I love Hestia, and I’ve never seen HOTD but I love how passionate you are about Alicent 💞

@basimibnishaqs speaking of having great takes about Star Wars…🥰 Rey & Luke being father and daughter especially, I LOVE your posts on the subject. And this fic you wrote about them!! An AU ofc but so very sweet to me 💞

@practically-an-x-man you and I are fairly new to being mutuals but I love having you as one 💞 still chugging through the Ophelia fic, but I love it so far! And ofc as I mentioned before, you write AMAZING whump (as shown in this incredible fic!)

@azaablue your ATLA fics are out of this world, but “beautiful boy” and “Push and Pull” in particular always sticks with me 💞 all the kudos in the world, you Get It, and you’re so wonderful. A gem in the ATLA fandom

@calliopieces your Maiko fics are a GEM in The ATLA fandom, especially “crowning glory” 💞 you just Get Mai and her family situation, and especially Fire Nation girlhood, and I love this fic so much for it

[katy-133]

Rick Sanchez Showing Signs of ASD for 30 Images

(Re-posting this from a previous reblog I posted in. For organisational purposes.)

(Using some notes from CDC.gov and NHS.uk)

“People with [autism spectrum disorder (ASD)] often have problems with social communication and interaction, and restricted or repetitive behaviors or interests. People with ASD may also have different ways of learning, moving, or paying attention. It is important to note that some people without ASD might also have some of these symptoms.” - Signs and Symptoms of Autism Spectrum Disorder, CDC.gov

Similar to the above quote, some of the below examples can be explained through Doylist (meta) explanations (for example, Rick usually wears the same clothes because that's a common trope in animation, due to asset limitations and marketing/merchandise reasons).

With that in mind:

Bad sensory, overstimulation: Rick preferring to eat just noodles (possibly due to texture/taste aversion), instead of having what everyone else in the family is having.

Getting very upset if someone touches or gets too close: Rick pushing Morty away when Morty runs up to hug him.

Stimming (repetitive performance of certain physical movements or vocalisations) by moving his fists in a celebratory shaking motion in multiple episodes.

Gets upset by minor changes. Rick getting mad at Morty for changing the position of his car seat, refusing to leave a dangerous situation until it's re-adjusted.

Rick: "Wait, did you f**k with my seat settings?!"

Having the same routine every day and getting very anxious if it changes: Rick being upset that Morty is busy and can't go on an adventure with him (like in a typical episode).

Gastrointestinal issues (for example, constipation). An episode focuses on Rick needing to go to a custom planet (that felt safe and secluded) to use the toilet and feeling great distress upon learning that someone else found the planet.

Has a safe food that is seeked out for comfort. Rick likes wafers. He's seen getting them from the kitchen in multiple episodes, Beth makes sure the house is stocked with them, and the Citadel of Ricks even has its own factory to produce them.

Referencing good sensory: Rick talking in detail about pancakes covered in syrup, not wanting the pancakes to go bad.

Rick: "Now if you'll excuse me, I've got pancakes back home with syrup on top of them. They're about to hit that critical point of syrup absorption that turns the cakes into a gross paste. And I hate to get all Andy Rooney about it, but I think we all like fluffy discs of cake with syrup on top!"

And Rick enjoying pancakes in S1E10 and S4E2:

Has obsessive interests. Rick becoming hyper-focused on giant mecha collecting and Morty reminding him to not go overboard on his new hyperfixation.

Morty: "Sometimes, enough is... ?" Rick: (Sadly) "Sometimes enough is enough."

Liking to plan things carefully before doing them: Rick keeping various helpful inventions in his lab coat just in case he needs them later (Vindicators episode).

Infodumping (to excitedly share a large amount of information about a highly-focused subject or passion at one time, usually in great detail and length).

Finding it hard to talk about feelings: Rick having hesitation in apologising and explaining his thoughts and feelings to Jerry.

Rick: "If I'm genuinely cool, I should be able to love you. Which I... therefore do."

Avoids or does not keep eye contact: Rick looking away or breaking eye contact with Morty. Image set of Morty calling him out:

Rick breaking eye contact while lying to Morty:

Having a preferred outfit to wear each day (can be cause of sensory issues). Rick wearing the same blue shirt for over 40 years (we see in flashbacks that it was brighter and has faded with time).

Unusual speech patterns, such as stuttering. Rick's stuttering decreases as seasons progress.

Vocal stimming (when someone repeats a specific sound or phrase to produce sensory stimulation). Some autistic children find it easier to make up their own words. Rick repeatedly saying, "wubba lubba dub dub." He will also repeat his own words (echolalia) immediately afterwards.

Delay edecholalia, scripting (when someone "saves" exact phrases and uses them later to make social situations easier). Rick (in The Ricks Must Be Crazy) remembers Morty's comment, "that just sounds like slavery with extra steps" and uses it later to try and win an argument with another scientist.

Not picking up social cues, finding it hard to understand what others are thinking or feeling. Rick making a joke and then realising the other person is in too much distress to laugh with him (has done this with both Morty and Jerry).

Rick: "You're not laughing?" (Expression changes upon realising) "Oh, right. You're dying."

Unconventional grief response, "inappropriate" facial expressions, lack of fear: Rick reacting to burying himself in a less uneasy way than Morty.

"To the point" style of social interaction. Rick often speaks bluntly and is seen as rude by other characters in response.

Rick: "Everyone, f**k off. Morty, I need your help."

Has a terrible memory but can remember ridiculously difficult information if it interests him. Rick forgets his portal gun and leaves it behind, but can remember the formula for various chemical reactions without using a reference (ending of M.Night Shaym-Aliens!).

And finally...

President Curtis referencing Rick's neurodivergency:

Rick's comment:

Rick: "I'm not touching that thing,"

Rick finding a roundabout way to let Morty know that he (Rick) also has ASD:

Rick: "Is this game popular with autistic people?" Morty: "Why would you say something like that?" Rick: "Because I'm starting to love it."

Wish I could have added more examples, but 30 images is Tumblr's current post limit.

(I understand that the potential meme joke by OP is that the "NOT YOU" image is of Rick from season 1, versus his markedly changed characterisation in season 5-onwards, that focused more on coding Rick as neurodivergent.)

I hope this has been in some part educational for a few readers. Happy Autism Acceptance Month.

But now for the disclaimer bit: Don't take it from me, learn more about ASD.

[summersmithlatinxgyatt]

Yes, before we even START this blog, I kindly request that you reblog this. I request a reblog with questions and proof at the end, but reblog this if you see it PLEASE. This is a massive theory on the entirety of Rick and Morty as a show as well as C-137. This is not my usual kind of post, but I’ve been working on it for months. It recontextualizes the entire show and required a lot of proof and effort for it to stay together. If you could spread it around, I would appreciate that so much from the bottom of my heart. This is my passion project.

This is my ‘Rick Meta-Parasite’ theory.

-

There are many instances of parasitic entities across Rick and Morty that have a common theme. Each one will be explained here first, before I try to explain why they even appear.

There’s the Total Rickall parasites that latch onto the family to create false memories to anchor themselves. These parasites just barely resemble Previous Leon, a similar entity. They both create fake memories to flash back to and manifest themselves over and over, spreading out and multiplying. Previous Leon is more ‘meta’, which is going to be explained later on.

The Total Rickall parasitic aliens likely come from Unity’s planet. I say this because these two episodes are right next to each other. Beta-7 and Unity meet up constantly, meaning there is a hivemind alliance between MULTIPLE hiveminds out there. This is also going to be crucial to remember. Rick says that the parasitic aliens likely came from the bottom of someone’s shoe, so Summer or Morty might have accidentally stepped on this parasite from a hivemind source and brought it to their home as a result. That explains what these parasites are doing to begin with

There are other examples of parasitic entities in Rick and Morty. But these are targeting the mind and memories. We know that the Federation consists of bug-like aliens that created a device that allows them to enter the mind of Rick to extract the schematics of his portal gun, which was still shown to be false later on

So we have a galactic federation made up of bug aliens that targeted Rick and innovated technology to enter Rick’s mind for portal travel. Going back to the aforementioned hiveminds, we know that Unity and Rick had a relationship together. Unity literally tells Rick that he’s more of a parasite than she could ever be. The two relate to this sentiment, which will ALSO be explained soon. One thing at a time, I just have to keep these things in your mind

The fear hole is implied to be sentient, but it leeches off of fear. Although it was stated to go after Rick, I think this was a method used to just get the most fear out of Morty instead. It would allow him to dive deeper into his fears from this false statement that threw him off. It IS interesting that it appeared in a Denny’s. Rick loves Shoney’s, a place that exists as a parody of Denny’s. Instead, this parasitic hole manifested itself in the ORIGIN of this parody that Rick holds close. This will be the final thing to keep in mind before I dive into this theory one final time

Rick is a meta-fictional parasite.

We already know he IS a parasite. I mean come on, he came into another Beth’s life and travels through dimensions. Unity sees him as a literal bloodsucker. Morty tells Summer that Rick goes into people’s lives and just leaves them once he gets what he wants. It’s not a new idea that he’s a parasite, but this is a change of pace. Already, this is basing itself on the idea that Rick is a parasite in the NARRATIVE sense.

When we say Rick, we are referencing C-137, NOT Prime. That’s because Prime is the Rick of the Rick and Morty franchise. C-137 is pretending to be a Rick that eventually found this property to latch onto. There’s a few reasons as to why this happened at all. The first is that this parasite took the place of the scapegoat of Rick Prime, who would inevitably create portal travel

This portal travel method would allow him to escape his own dimension if necessary, not to mention it would create a container and franchise to exist in. This would be the border of the meta structure. But first, let’s explain the cosmology so far:

The Central Finite Curve is capped out at a certain point. The reason it curves is due to the deviations on every single dimension. The word dimension being used is very interesting, because it can be used to describe the features and aspects of an object. To ask the dimensions of a box is to ask how long, wide, and tall it is. To ask about the dimensions of the Central Finite Curve, you’d also be asking about what makes it up and causes it to curve. That would be the slight alteration to every single hypothetical Rick scenario

We end up seeing that dimensions can have sub-iterations added onto them from deviations OF DEVIATIONS that are specific enough to be noted. The D-716 Ricks are classed as B and C. They are minor divergent points from D176, which is already a branch from Prime’s dimension. And like how dimensions describe the shape of an object, the way it branches out would be literally spiraling out into a curve that is off by JUST a bit each time

The Central Finite Curve caps out at Rick being the smartest being several times over. The outside of the curve is chaotic because it has boundaries or shapes. There is nothing that centralizes and defines it, so it is a mess. And since Rick slowly becomes more and more irrelevant as the curve displaces each dimension by adding deviations, the point at which Rick no longer matters is the point where the multiverse actually begins. This explains both boundaries clearly. With that being said, there’s still more to explain

There is the edge of the canon itself and what was considered non-canon. This is the outside level of the continuity that is basically formless and desperate to find some format in any way. We know that the story train is circular. If it were to deviate, it would form a spiral, a CURVE. That describes the still state of the curve when it originally began as well.

Something important is that the outside of the train is referred to as the non-canon state of reality. But it’s also worthy of an explanation. Check this scene out

The outside of the non-canon isn’t just not canon. It’s formless as described before. It is ‘free floating’, so to speak. The Tickets, Please Guy is being submerged into countless narratives to try to anchor him. It spirals out of control. Every single non-canon instance we see is one that has no set narrative or format

That’s also why the self-proclaimed non-canon Rick and Morty series takes place in another medium entirely to try to anchor its narrative. It needs some way to anchor itself, so this outer shell also relies on trying to find the nearest location. That would be the multiverse, the Central Finite Curve at least. This explains how Story Lord already considered himself an enemy of Rick, someone who’s clearly able to travel through all of these spaces and saw Rick’s clear potential (which will be explained later in full detail as to why Story Lord is his nemesis)

That would also explain Previous Leon’s existence as someone who implants false memories and causes feedback loops through flashbacks. It’s to find some way to anchor themselves and tread through the multiverse. But why?

It seems that each parasitic entity is capable of finding their designated host. The entire point is that they can navigate through the non-canon or similar spaces to find a host for themselves. They’re mainly concerned about the meta-fictional parasite known as Rick C-137. That’s because this version managed to rebel against the usual Rick format. Being the ‘Rickest Rick’ despite not even being Rick is insane in this context now. Even LOOk at the dimension they assign him in:

C - 3, prime number

1 - prime

3 - prime

7 - prime

3,137 - prime

His assigned dimensionality is prime. Going back to what I said about the dimensions, we know that he and Rick Prime were the first ones to start this. A prime axis would be the very center of this ‘shape’ I keep describing, C-137 being a false prime as well but still as important

Finally cycling back to the original point I was making, Rick took this spot to be the other Rick who created portal travel. Where does the meta-fictional parasite part come in? Oh, that’s right

We need to talk about The Real Animated Adventures of Doc and Mharti first. That’s right, the thing that actually started Rick and Morty that’s never referenced. This is the part of the theory that goes crazy. If you just wanted an explanation of the Central Finite Curve and stuff, now would be a good time to leave. Otherwise, strap in.

The Real Animated Adventures of Doc and Mharti started as a Back To The Future parody. The actual source is crude and does include sexual scenes that won’t be explained here. It would lead to something disturbing, though. Back To The Future also literally has an incest subplot with Marty and his mother in the past. If these two became Rick and Morty, then yeah, it’s also gross shit between them. And we know this sadly became a theme in the show that popped up over time. But that…sadly matters to this theory and explains a lot

When I use this term, I am also referring to a self-parasitic method that Rick is initiating. He is surrounding himself with OTHER Ricks as well, despite them being deviations. It’s some universal sibling relationship, if you think about it. I mentioned that the non-canon system is free floating and allows any format to manifest. When this Doc and Mharti…you know, off-screen and shit, it created a deviation level that was not possible. It is detached from the parody on another level. It’s not related to the original source and parody anymore. As it passes, there is less satire and parody. It becomes its own thing. It creates an original character, just like how Rick and Morty is no longer tied to Back To The Future

We get Rick Sanchez, C-137.

That’s not where the theory ends, though.

If this parasite was born through that and was self-parasitic, it would anchor itself to a character that resembles him and Doc and Mharti. That would be Rick Prime

That explains how C-137 and Prime existed at different times despite being the ‘main characters’, so to speak. Think of it like this

Rick and Morty was ALREADY EXISTING with Rick Prime, until C-137’s parasitic form pushed through the non-canon and latched onto this host that resembled his ‘dad’ and himself to continue the cycle. Every now and then, these gross themes and parodies pop up as the literal lifeline of Rick C-137 to sustain him. He is also fueled with the resentment of Rick Prime for destroying Diane, which can also be explained in this context clearly

If Rick has to exist as an anchored character, that means he needs an in-universe anchor as well. He needs to blend in and exist in the narrative. That’s where Diane comes in

Diane kept Rick C-137 from leaving into the non-canon and actually existing in-universe. When she was unexpectedly killed, it threatened Rick and caused him to create portal travel. He kills two birds with one stone when he hunts down Rick Prime. That would also explain why portal travel, Operation Phoenix, and other lifelines are used. The theme of incest is also being used metaphorically like I said - it persists because it was the origin source. That’s also why parodies are so prominent across the show too, but are somewhat spread out. UNTIL it peaks around the time Rick Prime is killed

And Season 7, the season he’s killed, has no incest. There aren’t as many parodies either, because he is fully independent. He has removed all anchors from himself at this point by instead cementing his new purpose in-universe, not just through meta-fiction or non-canon instances

By the way, we still aren’t done. We have a lot more things to explain

If Doc and Mharti exist as a parody backstory, we can also explain Shoney’s easily

Shoney’s is a parody that also anchors Rick. It’s the first thing that we see in The Rickshank Rickdemption and Rick’s mind when these parasitic Federation soldiers try to extract the backstory from Rick’s memories. Shoney’s as a parody of Denny’s shows the idea that this is a lifeline. Ironically enough, there seems to be duality when it comes to…the whole Szechuan Sauce existing here as an extended reference that affected the real world. Why am I mentioning this?

Well, Rick is still using ways to contextualize himself in the world of Rick and Morty. Yet he’s using a parody instead of the real deal. The real Denny’s would be on the same plane as Doc and Mharti’s level of reality. That means it actually pierces through these layers, the fear hole is a hole drilled across all three layers of reality being shown here. Why do you think it was able to show Morty the TRUE nature of Rick??

It literally shows how Rick is unhealthy by exposing Morty through the ugly truth. You know how the hole has layers? That’s because Morty is passing through those layers of reality - the ONLY way to know Rick inside and out across every possible layer. He basically learned his origin and primary function during it

We also have Evil Morty to explain. How did he extract Rick’s backstory when The Citadel of Ricks couldn’t?

That’s easy

Evil Morty is basically a counter parasite

So I started this theory showing how there’s so many parasites, then explained that Rick was one. Even if that seems like a good segue, I didn’t actually explain how it works. But I can now!

Previous Leon is able to pass through the fourth wall, it’s shown to be a power early on that Rick SOMEHOW KNOWS ABOUT when he sees it happen before him. That’s because all of these parasites can pass through these layers of reality, mainly the meta and non-canon ones. Remember how I said the non-canon is basically formless like the multiverse? Previous Leon is one of many beings who can anchor themselves easily. If they use Rick’s origin source, they would be the only ones who could actually use that information meaningfully. The Federation extracting portal travel information means they can’t even have quick travel methods like Rick’s portal gun. Do you expect them to actually be able to travel through the meta and non-canon layers when, as shown before, it’s impossible to navigate and stay latched onto one narrative?

These are meta-fictional parasites because they are narrative parasites. They are the only ones capable of pulling this off. And just to prove a point, The Self-Referential Six are literally the same type of idea

-Flash Back enacts flashbacks, which has been shown before with Leon and the Total Rickall parasites

-Protago Nick, who would be establishing hosts before latching onto them with the weight of protagonism

They are literary devices that become real. They exist within these characters, because their named and designated designs are the Rick and Morty version of these characters. Of course they can travel through non-canon easily, they’re the sentient extensions of actual literary devices!!

Okay, this did derail a bit. I just explained how, technically, retcon itself exists in Rick and Morty. But let’s get back to my point after I explained why there’s parasites everywhere.

Evil Morty led Rick C-137 to kill Prime. This would be Rick killing his main host to leave him as an empty shell with no purpose and nothing to feed off. Evil Morty was also able to subvert the curve and leave it entirely. He denounces the name ‘Evil Morty’, which has an in-universe explanation. But also in the context of this theory, it’s because he is not just some deviation of a dimension. He transcends that, meaning he is a parasite and not a byproduct of this parasitic war. That also explains why he can eventually pass through the multiverse and outside the Central Finite Curve, a power I keep saying parasites hold

The reason he can actually get Rick’s backstory is because it’s more of a dissection device. He is aware of his own nature and was able to create a device that extracted the mind of a parasite. This would be identical technology to the one that Evil Morty implants in Rick Prime’s brain! He has anti-parasite measures because he knows about his nature! Don’t believe me?

This is the same Morty that located an Evil Rick who himself stated he was a few deviations off C-137. This is the same Morty that created an eyepatch that CONTROLS THE BRAIN.

What do all of these parasites do? GO AFTER THE BRAIN OF RICK.

So Evil Morty clearly has this technology in place to use, besides the fact that he was a parasite among Ricks by taking a place of power within The Citadel of Ricks. That enough is an explanation for continuing the fight between both Ricks and somehow being able to extract his backstory when everybody else failed. Remember - multiversal variants are deviations, the few beings I’ve been mentioning are parasites. And as the cherry on top, who does Story Lord allow to be the leader of an entire army of Ricks in the Story Train’s manifestation?

Evil Morty.

The parasite killer. The one thing Story Lord knew would stop this meta-fictional parasite right in his tracks.

There are still a few things I need to explain before I wrap this theory up

For one, I mentioned Operation Phoenix being a lifeline. Wouldn’t it be worse for Rick to go to a dimension other than his in another body? Even if it helps him come back?

Operation Phoenix would re-establish Rick’s place across the Central Finite Curve, even if he’s in another set of deviations. He already moved dimensions, so this is fine. He would also be spreading out his influence, which is what he did in The Rickshank Rickdemption and when he switched to other dimensions

What about Memory Rick?

At first, this actually stumped me. I felt like this was too important to dismiss but also had way too little information to its name. Until I realized that this is a manifestation of Rick in Birdperson’s memories that acts completely different

Kind of sounds like how I explained multiversal deviation off-sets or parody deviations that become their own character

That become SENTIENT.

Sentient enough to willingly cross minds and memories…

In a way, Memory Rick was dormant and became a willing parasite in Rick’s memories AS WELL. That can explain how Memory Rick works as well

This can also explain Slow Mobius’ wife AND my theory on Summer becoming Rick. I couldn’t hold back, I just had to mention Summer at some point. But the idea is how hunting after a host makes you a parasite. Again, this echoes a statement by Evil Morty about how if wanting Rick gone is bad, then it’s considered evil and is more of a demoting statement. They are classed as parasites hunting their host. Their lives were ruined and feel fulfilled AS they chase their target, but it leaves them meaningless once they actually kill their host.

I’m referring to how Slow Mobius went on a hunt for whoever killed her husband. I’m also referring to my theory about how if Rick left Summer’s life, she’d become just like him when HE was finding Rick Prime - taking the mantle of Rick without any of the glamor.

There’s also the theory I have that Summer is likely being turned into Diane. She can either be a parasite anchor and canonizer OR another Rick-esque parasite on the prowl. These deviations are being set AS WE SPEAK and Rick is fully aware of it in some way

This is the archetype of these parasites. That’s why Rick C-137 is so desired across these people who want his origin. His numbers are prime, he SEEMS prime, HE IS THE FALSE PRIME!! There cannot be an even number of primes though, that’s against logic, LITERALLY! Instead, he exists as the prime PARASITE archetype that they all come from. Meanwhile, Rick Prime is the prime HOST instead. Since one is native to the franchise first, one is seen as ‘actually prime’, while the outsider is not seen that way

So, for the recap of this entire theory that honestly, can hold way more information than shown:

Rick C-137 is the son of Doc and Mharti. This deviation of parodies and sources created an abomination parasite that sought out a host to leech onto. It found an existing franchise with a character similar to its dad and itself. As it settled, it became an in-universe being until its in-universe wife was killed. This would kickstart portal travel, a way to spread out its influence and to kill its host now. Even if this removed their purpose, this meta-fictional parasite would not care at ALL. Throughout the journey, we see similar beings who want to find the origin of this parasite for two reasons. One, it allows portal travel, and two, it allows them to dissect this current parasite that dismantled an entire franchise and remade it around itself - a ‘Rickest Rick’ more Rick than Rick Prime.

The themes of incest and parody exist as the metaphor for how the show satures itself WITH its own crude nature, like its father origin and itself. Over and over. A parasite feeding on itself because its host is gone. And this parasite then decides to critically examine itself when its host, show host, SHOW RUNNER, LEAVES THE PRODUCTION OF THE SHOW. Around the same time the SAME host known as Rick Prime also leaves the picture. This leaves the parasite purposeless without realizing how far they’ve come and become their own character - right until their companion runs into a hole plunged through all of this that exposes them.

Oh and for the record I do not endorse incest or it happening in the show or fandom. DO NOT HOLD THIS AGAINST ME. PROSHIPPERS, DO NOT USE THIS EITHER. This is a meta-fictional theory that also managed to involve that element into the narrative because that’s what this theory is all about, got it?

Please reblog and comment if you have any questions or any more proof to support this theory!

[weneedatdcharacterwho]

mod millie which one of the anon ideas are ur fav

Well, there's a lot of options excluding the 21 posts currently in the queue (as well as the about half that are mine)

I really like the ones who comment on design inequality, where the guys tend to have a large range of designs while the girls get stuck with similar ones. Such as this one talking about the swim attire-

There was a similar one back a long time requesting a girl character to have tan lines like a farmer's tan (think Ripper's tan) which I also really like. I think the design ones are some of my fav because there's no preconceived notions that "have" to tie to their personality.

I really like horror movies and while I don't watch a lot of "killer at a summer camp" movies, this one made me bust out laughing because it'd be so funny to casually have as a part of someone's character.

I really like the characters where it's clearly someone under-represented who just wants a character like them. Like the ones requesting characters of specific ethnicities, races, cultures, sexualities, gender, disability, etc. I have to turn down a lot of them because they're too generic or similar to ones I've done before, but when you add a twist, it's something I love to be able to post. (compare 'an autistic character' to 'an autistic character who secretly HATES dinosaurs and trains and feels bad they don't fit the autistic stereotype')

I also really like this one. It was to the point and no one suggested it surprisingly. I got more requests for me and/or my boyfriend to be in the show before an anon decided they themself should be a character.

I like the really silly ones that make me nostalgic for other media. I mean that's the point of characters like Harold and Heather and Beth. Makes me think of another character and go "haha! it's funny they're here on this comedy/drama interacting with people not savy to their genre"

I really like characters who feel like meta or parody the fans (but not to the degree of Sierra- more like Priya) I like the character ideas that know the drama is coming and they are excited or dreading it and intentionally get involved/avoid it and make the viewers reap their benefits/costs in the confessional. I WOULD like to hear about how Maggie on the Voracious Squids is cheating and NO ONE but Chris, themself, and KENNETH of all people knows about it, even if it's from word of mouth. Kenneth might be lying for all we know and I want SOMEONE exposed for it.

Obviously I love so many and you can see my further excitement in some when I ramble in the tags about them. It's such a treat to run this blog and share ideas with such creative people in the fandom. While I do get some weeeeeird messages, I know I'm winning compared to some of the confession blogs that see absolute Horrors.

-Mod Millie (and Guy)

[rosyfingered-moon]

Sejak episode 16

So daebi said: just marry this crossdressing weirdo that you're sexually obsessed with and have an heir, it's fine idec at this point. And Yi In didn't immediately jump on that but was like, well mom if you want it then I'm NOT going to do it 😤

Since this is the final installment I want to officially thank Sang-hwa for his service to the crown! His loyalty and diligence is only rivaled by his commitment to the bit. One of my favorite scenes in this entire show is the Gay Rumor era where he sprints off with the swiftness of Hermes to fetch the king's boyfriend some candy

I must say I wish they would've talked more baduk when they play baduk. They always debate their real life issues and the game is just something they dabble with in the background, the way I embroider things while watching TV, but they could be meta-talking about baduk strategies in a way that convinces us that this really is their Mutual Obsession while simultaneously shedding light on their personalities. Is Mong-woo an aggressive and haphazard player? Is she more intuitive or more calculating? Has she memorized previous games or does she not have to, because she's operating on Pure Vibes? I still don't know what they're like as players, or if the king is ever close to winning, or if Mong-woo is getting kinda bored of playing against him because he never puts up a real fight. (And how does that then translate to their sexual relationship: she told her dad from the start that she'd only marry someone who could beat her.) In their first game they didn't speak a word because they were so absorbed, and they didn't even notice it had begun to rain -- I liked that much better, because if Mong-woo is the greatest baduk genius in the world then she would be more obsessive about it, almost to the detriment of their relationship, like Beth in The Queen's Gambit. She'd want to go to Qing for the challenge and thrill of playing the Emperor, not (only) for her country and king and father. Okay sorry rant over.

Sometimes I pounce on my partner like this when he's just about to leave for the supermarket and I say "kdrama back hug 🥺" and he's always very patient with this extremely annoying behavior

"I cannot send Mong-woo to the Qing alone. So I'll choose the violent criminal who tried to stab me and instead stabbed her. He'll keep her safe."

Sure this is satisfying but did we have to spend so much time on this when we've got like 45 minutes airtime left to show Mong-woo's life-changing trip to Qing? Let me see her play the Emperor and pretend to lose! Let me see her flirt with the imperial harem and gain friends and enemies in court!!! Also: how did her father react to her crossdressing (since she gave it up when Myung-ha threatened to tell daddy)?

Shin Se-kyung having to teach worthless noblemen on how to start a fire is a must for any sageuk. To me.

It’s actually very sweet that everyone's just treating her like the princess now. But what's going to happen with the real princess? Another thing that they could have wrapped up instead of...

THIS. So writernim introduced this guy as a new threat in the last ep and then resolved it with no tension or conflict. Another thing that we could maybe have just have skipped in favor of Mong-woo Wreaking Havoc in the Imperial City.

PLEASE I don't understand anything!!! So they'll stay together forever now. But Mong-woo doesn't want to be his concubine (she'd resent him). And Yi In has no apparent plans to abdicate (he'll be king until he dies). Is she going to stay on as gidaryeong, and if so, why didn't she return to her station right away but tried to sneak away?

It’s so funny that she just gave up and told him her name anyway lmaooo. She was like baby you'll never beat me let's not pretend ❤️

Despite my ranting I did love this drama very much!! A fantastic set up with a somewhat underwhelming execution is my sweet spot because it means I can write fic about it 🫶

[fandomwe1rd0]

One thing that keeps me watching Rick and Morty is Rick's character development. He still is a horrible person yeah, not denying that. But we know that he's going to therapy and you can see a clear difference from how he treats Morty in season one to how he treats Morty in season 6-7. Let's use the pilot as an example, in the pilot Rick literally drags Morty out of bed, nearly bombed the earth, Morty stopped him and I assume they went back very late which led to Morty being incredibly tired and Rick not really caring. That's the opening, now let's compare that to the opening of "Full Meta Jackrick" (Love that episode btwwww) Now it starts with a previous leon sprial with Rick being the only one who knows it's fake. And when they get to the chamber that counteracts Leon's toxic, he encourages Morty to say "Next time on Rick and Morty" showing trust in him, then when they do catch previous leon, Rock warns Morty to hold on tight, already showing more care than in the pilot. Speaking of which let's move back to the pilot shall we? So Rick drags Morty out of school again and proceeds to go to another dimension with Mega seeds. Morty forgets to turn on the boots and falls down a cliff and breaks his legs. Rick just seemed annoyed at Morty for not turning them on despite it being Rick's fault for not letting Morty know that before hand, and only attempts to resolve the situation when Morty complains. Moving onto Full Meta Jackrick, so after they capture previous leon, Rick gives Morty some googles and turns them on for him, a small detail but still it already shows the differences in the pilot, when Rick and Morty are getting their asses whooped by Jesus, Rick without hesitating gives Morty a remote to escape the Meta layer saying "Morty! Take this and get out! " and has a lot oothother small moments of him protecting Morty thought out the episode. Now back to the pilot, Rick and Morty eventually get the Mega Seeds, and Rick asks Morty to uh stick them up his butt, Morty clearly doesn't want to but Rick pressures him and Morty eventually agrees. So they go through interdimsional customs and turns out the seeds where for nothing since they can still track it with a new machine, so Rick gives Morty a gun and tells Morty to shoot them lying and saying they are robots when Morty expresses concern Rick just hand waves it away saying it was a figure of speech, when Morty and Jessica were actually getting along Rick drags Morty away, let's the Mega seeds dissolve so he can convince Beth and Jerry to let him go on adventures with Morty, then proceeds to rant to Morty about 100 years Rick and Morty. Ok we're at the ending now let's examine full Meta Jackrick, Rick tells Morty that his life matters which is already a step above what we're used to, helps Morty up when he runs into barrels, looks worried when Morty jerks forward when tied up in a chair, keeps Morty put of protago nick's ray, keeps Morty out of Rhett Con's retcon range, helps Morty out of an orange (long story) and even gives Morty his lab coat and shields him from the wind when Morty was shivering from cold and again looks worried for Morty(I'm so normal about this scene)

Rick also attempts to drown someone when he thinks they took advantage of Morty so that's fun, and that's it, I like how you can clearly see differences from season 1 to season 6, I'm sorry this post got so long but I hope you enjoyed it!

[garmanarnarr]

Not a ground breaking thought but one I have been obsessing over: as a character, Rick is defined by his relationship to his own agency, ie, his virtually limitless amounts of it. He has, in almost every situation the show puts him in, a choice in the matter. In a lot of ways, his technical/physical power is nearly complete— he can build a solution to any obstacle presented to him, or kill it, or destroy it, or escape it. He’s so self-aware he’s breaking the fourth wall, cracking jokes at the audience. In-universe, he could LEAVE Beth and her family at any time. Get in his freaking spaceship and fly out of there. He’s an alcoholic that’s substance dependent because he has to numb himself to the amount of choice and agency he has. And I don’t really blame him?? Because, let’s face it, the idea that you can TRULY do whatever you want is terrifying (hence his nihilism, also. if you can truly do whatever the hell you want, what really matters? what is your struggle? etc). It’s in the DNA of the show: what are the narrative problems to solve when your protagonist can do…… virtually anything he wants?

ENTER MORTIMER

That’s what makes his obsession with Morty so fucking interesting!! His grandson! His irrational attachment! The way he’s scrambling to control Morty in whatever way possible!! Sure, there are other family attachments in the rest of the Smiths, and some friends here and there. There's Diane. There’s also probably some other whole meta post to be written about Rick’s nuclear levels of self-loathing and how that ties in with all this into some kind of psychosexual soup. But the show’s backbone is about his relationship Morty. Morty!!!!! Rick’s own feelings for Morty represent a lack of control that is, for a someone entirely defined by their omnipotent (canonically ‘god-like’) levels of it, astonishing. Rick’s love for Morty is, in his mind, his own greatest frustration and most insurmountable defeat. And even worse, because Rick cares about Morty, he has to, at least to some extent, care about the universe because that’s the thing Morty exists inside.

Rick, who cares about nothing, CARES about Morty. And he just can’t. fucking. stop. himself.

[danpuff-ao3]

This year has had many ups and downs, and as of late it feels as if the whole world is a down. Real life has really smacked me down, and I've felt so isolated from all of the things and people I love. But as ever, the world is looking up, and I can see the light...and looking back brings me so much joy and fulfillment. I've accomplished so much that I don't give myself credit for. More than I'll dare type up here, but let's go through the highlight reel, shall we?

For my dear friend Beth's birthday, I finally posted some of my HP Astro work to AO3! (Speaking of which, I really should work on adding more soon...)

A_Loveunlaced (@a-loveunlaced) is an artist I very much admire, so the start of the year was super cool getting to chat with them, seeing their Snarry art, and writing a ficlet for said art, Again (and Again).

Delved into and fully embraced the controversy by running HP Chan Fest with @cindle-writes, which was such a cool and meaningful experience.

Plus I wrote some fics I'm really proud of for said fest: profane holy, Cruel Summer, The Virgin Bride.

Also my dear friend Viran (@mrviran) drew some fanart for Cruel Summer, I believe while it was still anonymous and everything! But she also totally called that it was me who wrote it, which is always fun for me when people know me in the Anon stages!

I wrote more fics for Kinkuary and Kinktober (which I always love!)

Shared more meta on AO3 with The Half-Blood History (I really do need to import more meta there!)

Finally wrote and posted chapter 3 for smile with sweet surprise (aka Stepdad Snape fic)

Started writing and sharing WIPs I've been long excited for: Wasted for Love (Golden Triad + Snarry) and A Taste for You (Sugar Daddy Harry).

I ran HP Fruit Fest solo! Which was a lot, but I had fun and I was super thrilled to not be the only one super into fruit!

I taught myself how to bind books, and now I have a growing collection of bound fics! Check out #danpuff binds to see some!

More recs, as ever, but especially the ongoing Dead Dove Diaries series of rec lists.

Speaking of recs, I'm helping mod @hprecfest, which is so fun for me! I love seeing people's recs, and I love being part of an event that is spreading so much fun and love around the community!

Also, making my own recs for the event! I've got at least one fic queued up for each day, I think! And some days have even more!

For Snarry-a-Thon I wrote a companion piece to last year's Contempt (aka my heart and soul), called Devotion, which my friend Aristi kindly beta read for me! The whole series is so deeply meaningful to me and it feels so huge to add more to it.

For Snarry Bang, I teamed up with my pal Viran (@mrviran) for The Curse of Anteros. I wiffle-waffled on what to write for the longest time, but my vacation to Orlando unlocked something in me. The whole fic hit me like a hurricane and came out in like a 2 week period. And the art Viran created for it is spectacular (I'm still obsessed). Oh, and it was such a treat having the fabulous @writcraft beta! There's nothing quite like having a creator you admire help your work be its best version!

And, of course, I had another opportunity to chat with my friend Beth for @fanficmaverickpodcast, with the episode: A Very Snarry Christmas.

And lots more, but this is plenty enough to be going with! Not half bad for the year, yeah? 😄

[thesoftboiledegg]

Rick and Morty if Autism Speaks and Autism Moms focus-grouped it to death:

Rick: Everyone, I have a terrible confession to make. Summer [scrolling through her phone]: Sure, Grandpa Rick. How many planets did you blow up today? Rick: No, Summer, it's much worse than that. I... [sighs and sticks his hands in his pockets] I just got back from the doctor's office. I...I have autism. [The entire family gasps in shock. Summer drops her phone. Morty's hands fly to his mouth.] Beth: No! Rick! Why didn't you ever tell us? Rick: I didn't know, sweetie. Bird Person noticed that I'd been flapping my hands a lot and said, "Mubba rubba nub nub," which means, "I'm going to give you a referral for an autism diagnosis." I just got back from the clinic. I'll be honest with you--when the word "autism" came out of the doctor's mouth, I couldn't decide if I wanted to hide the truth from you or crash my ship directly into the building, killing me instantly. [Jerry stares at him. Summer starts sobbing. Beth glances at Morty with horror and disbelief.] Beth: But--what about Morty? He flaps his hands sometimes, too. Do you think that--maybe--oh God, I don't even want to say it-- Rick [looking at her sadly]: I don't know, sweetie. Autism is a genetic disease, and it's not looking good. Morty: No! NO! Why, Rick? This is the worst thing you've ever done! Rick: I'm sorry, buddy. I wish I could go back in time and delete the autism from my genes. Summer [sobbing]: You've ruined our family! I always knew I was the one normal child, and now you've just confirmed it! Beth: I'm sorry, Morty, but I won't be able to look at you the same way again. I knew there was a reason I favored Summer all these years. And Rick, well--I don't know if you can keep living here. Our budget is already tight without you spending $500 a month on math textbooks and model train sets. Jerry: Wait, hang on. If I can get meta here for a second--doesn't Dan Harmon play Bird Person? And isn't he, you know...in that way? Rick: Autistic? [Beth and Summer gasp at the sound of the word.] I don't know, let me check. [He opens a portal and disappears, then returns a few seconds later, his eyes heavy with sadness.] Yes. Dan Harmon is autistic, which means...Bird Person is autistic, too. I'm sorry. [The entire room is silent.] Beth: Well...at least you'll be able to get together now. I know you autistics can't date normal people. Summer: Autistics can't date anyone, period. Sorry, Morty, but I guess Jessica and Bruce Chutback both dodged a bullet. [Morty bursts into tears. Beth rubs his shoulder.] Beth: It's okay, honey. Look at it this way--you'll be able to go on lots of adventures with Grandpa since we have to separate both of you from the general population. Jerry: And "different" doesn't mean "worse." I mean, in this case, it absolutely does, but it doesn't mean that in other contexts. Morty: I'm sorry that I'm burdening everyone. [glances up] Hey, um, Rick--maybe you can find a cure, right? [smiles weakly] Some planet out there must've found a cure for autism by now, right? Rick [forces a smile]: You've got it, buddy. I'm sure there's a universe out there that's...found a cure for this tragic disease. [Everyone looks silently down at the table. Morty stands up.] Morty: I'm going to sit in my room for a while. Let me know when you've decided if you're going to keep me or put me up for adoption. Beth: We'll let you know, honey. [Morty walks upstairs. The rest of the family turns to Rick, who sighs.] Rick: Well...I guess I'll go to the garage. The noise-cancelling walls will protect you from the sounds of my incessant stimming and hand-flapping. I know you don't want me back in the house, so you can turn my room into extra storage space. Jerry can even turn it into a man cave if he wants. I don't care if he does. I don't care about anything anymore. Summer: Neither do we, Rick. Neither do we... [Rick walks into the garage and sits quietly on the stool. After a few minutes of silence, he hesitates, then reaches inside his coat and applies a sticker to his ship. The camera zooms in to reveal a puzzle piece that reads Autistics On Board.]

[304-x]

i know that rick and morty the characters are supposed to be the main foils of the show (s1e10 basically set that up from the start), but there is something so undeniably delicious about jerry and rick. rick, a man who is so brilliant but is still left unfulfilled, unable to do things without 10 layers of meta-irony armor, and unable to emotionally connect with others. jerry, who is at incompetent at most tasks and has no defining skills, is more happier and fulfilled than rick will ever be. the joy he gets from playing his little popping balloon game is something rick can only hope to experience

the way they relate to beth is also so interesting? as the two most prominent men in her life. the fact that beth borderline loathes Jerry and seeks Rick's approval at every turn, but stays loyal to Jerry ultimately, every time.

and the writers have known the jerry/rick dynamic is interesting, like, for ever, but have been exploring it textually since s3e5 and s3e10. and even more in recent seasons. and i love it

[dontbotherwiththepronunciation]

I really wish we could talk about Jeyne bullying Arya without people going completely feral, because as someone who was bullied (tragicomically involving the nickname "horseface" and even neighing when I walked by), and who can't even watch high school comedies like mean girls without wanting to die, I feel like it's so reductive to deny any possibility of conflict between the Arya-Jeyne-Sansa dynamic that is more than "mean girls vs pretty-but-doesn't-know-it-yet-girl situation" or "violent paranoid schizophrenic with a persecution complex feels victimised by girls who actually do their schoolwork" while still acknowledging Jeyne as a bully and Arya as a victim.

Jeyne is such a weird character to me, because I never feel this attached to the archetype she embodies.

And still, her dynamic with the two Stark sisters is interesting and the confusion in fandom is COMPLETELY fascinating and borderline triggering to witness, because it reminds me a lot to how a class of high schoolers reacts to *gasps, looks around to see no one is listening and whispers* bullying *lightning and thunder strike on the background to signify the gravity of such a word*.

Person A: What? What are you talking about?! She is exaggerating everything! Sansa never called her that! It was only Jeyne and I bet she only did it once! Person B: Oh, no it was just Jeyne who did it. Sansa told her to stop, but she just kept at it because she is less educated. Person C: No, Jeyne was actually just doing it to impress Sansa. Sansa is the real villain here. DontbotherwiththepronunciationIn2013: I don't think "bullying" is the right term. It's not that bad, Arya should get over it. It was just hurtful teasing.

Now I realise that "hurtful teasing" is in fact bullying.

So, if going by canon:

I think Jeyne came up with the name "Horseface".

I think Jeyne used to neigh at Arya when she was passing.

I think Sansa probably used that name at some point in her life or maybe multiple times.

I think that silence bestows. I think inaction can be encouraging more action. I think passiveness can be as harming as aggressiveness.

I do NOT however think that neither Jeyne nor Sansa are inherently despicable evil people for bullying Arya. I think they are still children. I think, like in most situations involving bullying and children, it's the adults who are at fault for not putting a stop to it, and sometimes even encouraging it.

Before starting to rant, I want to say:

I don't consider myself an expert on any of these characters!!!!!

So if I'm saying something disproportionately wrong in the following, I am open to being corrected.

With that said, I think this is a network of issues, most of them involving socioeconomic classes and period-compliant misogyny. I think it might look like this:

I know that focussing on this is a little pointless because the three main actors involved in this have been violently removed from the situation, (and most of the remaining cast is dead) but at the same time their possible future reunion will be even more violent and they probably won't even have time to cope.

And I can't sleep and I feel horrible and I already drew that dumb mind-map on my phone.

So, I'm starting with the least tangled component in this thing.

Ⅰ. The passive perpetrator, Blind Beth Cassel

To her sister and sister's friends and all the rest, she had just been Arya Horseface. - The Blind Girl, ADWD

I have loved the "Blind Beth" concept since I first read it.

It's so interesting to me how the most Beth interested part of fandom is the Theon corner, yet in the entire Arya-Sansa narrative she barely appears and rarely in meta. The closest I've come to find analysis on Beth & Sansa was in this gorgeous collage highlighting them as victims of violence from different sources in ACOK, but asides from that, there isn't much there. And at least with Sansa I can understand it. Sansa doesn't think of Beth once in the entire books. Arya on the other hand names one of her many identities after Beth and I think the characteristic chosen to describe that persona was a very smart and painful reminder from GRRM.

Arya thinks of Beth Cassel in two occasions. Once in AGOT, when we first meet them,

She studied her own work again, looking for some way to salvage it, then sighed and put down the needle. She looked glumly at her sister. Sansa was chatting away happily as she worked. Beth Cassel, Ser Rodrik's little girl, was sitting by her feet, listening to every word she said, and Jeyne Poole was leaning over to whisper something in her ear. "What are you talking about?" Arya asked suddenly. Jeyne gave her a startled look, then giggled. Sansa looked abashed. Beth blushed. No one answered. "Tell me," Arya said. "Joffrey likes your sister," Jeyne whispered, proud as if she had something to do with it. She was the daughter of Winterfell's steward and Sansa's dearest friend. "He told her she was very beautiful." "He's going to marry her," little Beth said dreamily, hugging herself. "Then Sansa will be queen of all the realm." Sansa had the grace to blush. She blushed prettily. She did everything prettily, Arya thought with dull resentment. "Beth, you shouldn't make up stories," Sansa corrected the younger girl, gently stroking her hair to take the harshness out of her words. - Arya I, AGOT

AND once in Braavos, when she is thinking of her life a Winterfell,

"Beth." She had known a Beth once, back at Winterfell when she was Arya Stark. Maybe that was why she'd picked the name. Or maybe it was just because it went so well with blind. - The Blind Girl, ADWD

Our first assumption as readers to the name "Beth" going so well with "blind" is because it is an alliteration. Who doesn't love alliterations? Tell me you don't love Sir Gawain and the Green Knight with all it's stylistic devices! They are lovely. And perhaps "Blind Beth" is only one of GRRM's alliterations acknowledged by a character.

Or perhaps "Blind" and "Beth" also go so well with each other, because apparently, and basing this from Arya's POV (the only one involving Sansa, Jeyne & Beth all together), Beth is a passive perpetrator. The typical class mate who pretends not to see the bullying and the way it affects the victim. The one who is decent or even kind when alone, but alienating when they are accompanied by a group.

I have seen certain takes claiming that Arya's POV in AGOT isn't a reliable source when involving the dynamic between her and the other girls in Winterfell.

That is possible, but she is our only source. As said, Sansa doesn't ever think of Beth, so if I want to examine her it has to be through Arya's eyes.

I would like to take the scene in AGOT once again and look at it more closely this time.

She studied her own work again, looking for some way to salvage it, then sighed and put down the needle. She looked glumly at her sister. Sansa was chatting away happily as she worked. Beth Cassel, Ser Rodrik's little girl, was sitting by her feet, listening to every word she said, and Jeyne Poole was leaning over to whisper something in her ear.

The object composition is so carefully placed that I find it difficult to believe it is not supposed to have a meaning. Jeyne whispers into Sansa's ear, an image I often associate with a political advisor plotting or scheming with the ruler they serve (which she will remind me of again in future AGOT chapters). Beth has a lower position in the hierarchy She is sitting at Sansa's feet, completely enthralled to whatever it is Sansa says. She probably seeks her approval.

(There is this very sweet art depicting the image of Sansa, Beth and Jeyne and even if I kind of feel guilty for reading the scene as them alienating another girl and still enjoying the art, I still want to share it because it's very cute.)

"What are you talking about?" Arya asked suddenly. Jeyne gave her a startled look, then giggled. Sansa looked abashed. Beth blushed. No one answered.

Jeyne's reaction is alienating. She giggles and denies Arya the knowledge behind that sudden laughter. It always reminded me a little of how Theon's smiles are often described contemptuously, probably because people tend to think he is actually laughing/smiling at them. They think he is mocking them. I don't think this is something completely involuntarily. I think Jeyne knows that giggling when Arya is asking to be integrated to the group is painful to her. Sansa is described to look "abashed" which I take as uncomfortable. I thinks she is aware this is mean spirited. She still doesn't do anything, but she is at least "abashed". Beth seems to follow this reaction but her description is only physical, not necessarily tied to an explicit emotion. Still, they collectively refuse to include Arya into the conversation.

"Tell me," Arya said. "Joffrey likes your sister," Jeyne whispered, proud as if she had something to do with it. She was the daughter of Winterfell's steward and Sansa's dearest friend. "He told her she was very beautiful." "He's going to marry her," little Beth said dreamily, hugging herself. "Then Sansa will be queen of all the realm."

Arya has to insist to be accepted as part of the group. It is not Sansa who acts as the typical "Queen Bee" and grants her that privilege, but Jeyne. Jeyne is the one who speaks in a slightly haughty manner. Only after getting Jeyne's implicit permission does Beth make a comment. She is not described with any type of rancour by Arya.

Sansa had the grace to blush. She blushed prettily. She did everything prettily, Arya thought with dull resentment. "Beth, you shouldn't make up stories," Sansa corrected the younger girl, gently stroking her hair to take the harshness out of her words.

This is an interesting passage to me, but not because of Beth as a passive perpetrator, but because this is the first time I can think of where we are confronted with another monster that will play a role in here, the green-eyed beast;

Ⅱ. Envy

Not it's more mild mannered cousin jealousy that gets spoken of more in fandom, but envy!

Jealousy is usually seen as a less malevolent feeling, but the term is often used when actually referring to envy, so I will clarify that jealousy could be defined as a feeling of defensiveness and protectiveness over what you think to be yours and feel threatened or fearful of possibly losing it.

Envy is not protective or defensive, its offensive. It is a feeling of resentment over what another person or group has - be it a a material possession, a skill, or an emotional bond - and you feel you lack.

And oh boy, there is a lot of envy oozing from that medieval class room, some it more legitimate than other, but all felt.

Before continuing I want to clarify that Arya’s very real pain and low self-esteem, and the cruel ways in which Sansa sometimes treats her during AGOT shouldn't be dismissed as "deserved" or "exaggerated" because of her envy.

Ⅱ. Ⅰ. ARYA'S ENVY

Probably the easiest to locate.

In the formerly mentioned passage we see Arya being envious of Sansa. I would argue it's not up to interpretation since "with dull resentment" makes it very clear to me, but there is also tenderness. I don't think Arya hates Sansa, or at least not in that moment.

Something curious about envy is that it's not an entertaining sin. It's damaging not only to those you envy, but perhaps mostly to yourself. It is self-poisoning. And I think that during that scene Arya, isn't manifesting her envy. She very rarely verbalises it, instead she swallows her own anger and keeps it inside her. I couldn't find any passages where envy is the driving force on the few occasions Arya hurts Sansa. The closest I came to that is:

Arya wanted to scream. It was just like Sansa to go and attract the septa's attention. "Here," she said, surrendering up her work. - Arya I, AGOT

But even then, her envy only hurts herself.

Arya longs to be like Sansa. She wants to be considered as pretty as Sansa, she wants to be as skilled as her sister and to feel accepted by the other girls in the group.

It wasn't fair. Sansa had everything. Sansa was two years older; maybe by the time Arya had been born, there had been nothing left. Often it felt that way. Sansa could sew and dance and sing. She wrote poetry. She knew how to dress. She played the high harp and the bells. Worse, she was beautiful. Sansa had gotten their mother's fine high cheekbones and the thick auburn hair of the Tullys. Arya took after their lord father. Her hair was a lusterless brown, and her face was long and solemn. Jeyne used to call her Arya Horseface, and neigh whenever she came near. It hurt that the one thing Arya could do better than her sister was ride a horse. Well, that and manage a household. Sansa had never had much of a head for figures. If she did marry Prince Joff, Arya hoped for his sake that he had a good steward. - Arya I, AGOT

I find it curious how Arya starts off listing skills, yet the thing that pains her the most is related to her appearance.

What starts as painful envy becomes a self deprecating chuckle and later maybe even a half-optimistic outlook on her own strength. Arya recognises that she is not worthless or fully inferior to her sister. She is able to find qualities in herself and they way she does is endearing. She internally even makes fun of Sansa for not being as good as she is in this one little thing.

Sadly she is still aware of how in the eyes of most, Sansa is the one deemed worthy of admiration and emulation, while the best Arya can get is pity.

The septa examined the fabric. "Arya, Arya, Arya," she said. "This will not do. This will not do at all." Everyone was looking at her. It was too much. Sansa was too well bred to smile at her sister's disgrace, but Jeyne was smirking on her behalf. Even Princess Myrcella looked sorry for her. Arya felt tears filling her eyes. She pushed herself out of her chair and bolted for the door. - Arya I, AGOT

And Arya's envy doesn't come from simply being Arya, it comes from Arya not being seen as a valuable person by Westerosi society and, in my opinion, most importantly, by her mother.

I refer to the parent-child relationships on the whiteboard as "perceived", not because I deem them false or delusional, but because I've seen a lot of debate going around this topic and whether the favouritism is true or not and I don't know what to believe and honestly I don't care too much about it.

At this part of the conflict we don't really need to know if the Ned-Arya and Cat-Sansa favouritism is true or not. We just need to know that both girls feel some insecurity over their bond with their parents and feel envy.

Personally, I think both Stark parents love all their children deeply, it's just that love sometimes isn't perceived the way we want it to.

Both of her parents had conventional expectations for Arya, but it seems to me that Catelyn was the one who upheld these expectations while Ned acted more permissive. Eddard still intends for her to lead a life that is typical to that of a Lady,

"[...] And it is past time that Arya learned the ways of a southron court. In a few years she will be of an age to marry too." - Catelyn II, AGOT

But it's not Eddard who Arya is terrified of:

It was worse than Jon had thought. It wasn't Septa Mordane waiting in her room. It was Septa Mordane and her mother. - Arya I, AGOT

And it's not Eddard whom Arya often fears being rejected by or disappointing.

Her father tells Arya she remembers him of Lyanna, a woman who is not only remembered as beautiful but also as loved and desired, and also shared some of her interests, such as swordsmanship.

Her mother though..

"Sansa's work is as pretty as she is," Septa Mordane told their lady mother once. "She has such fine, delicate hands." When Lady Catelyn had asked about Arya, the septa had sniffed. "Arya has the hands of a blacksmith." - Arya I, AGOT

Sansa would shine in the south, Catelyn thought to herself, and the gods knew that Arya needed refinement. - Catelyn II, AGOT

“…my hair’s messy and my nails are dirty and my feet are all hard.” Robb wouldn’t care about that, probably, but her mother would. Lady Catelyn always wanted her to be like Sansa, to sing and dance and sew and mind her courtesies. Just thinking of it made Arya try to comb her hair with her fingers, but it was all tangles and mats, and all she did was tear some out.“ - Arya VII, ASOS

Her mother used to say she could be pretty if she would just wash and brush her hair and take more care with her dress, the way her sister did. - The Blind girl, ADWD

And a recurring pattern in those lines is a comparison to Sansa, the sister who is not constantly failing at fulfilling society's expectations on her. The sister who she wishes she could emulate while also staying true to the person she is. The sister who seems to act as a passive perpetrator of Jeyne's bullying and sometimes acts cruel herself.

Ⅱ. Ⅱ. SANSA'S ENVY AND EMBARASSEMENT

When I first read AGOT, I didn't like any of the Stark sisters. I actually think the only Stark I liked back then was Bran. I was about as old as they were, had my own issues with internalised misogyny and thought both of them were a little annoying. My views on both of them during AGOT have changed A LOT in the past ten years and while I like who they become as the books move n, much more than I like who they were at the beginning, I've become very fond of their AGOT selves. And I think they are children! Children make mistakes! Children are shallow and impulsive and hedonistic.

So, I don't think Arya is the only person here who has a few negatives feelings about her sister.

More than envy I think Sansa feels second-hand embarrassment by Arya's behaviour and wishes she wouldn't be associated with her, and this is something Arya is aware of.

She was barefoot and dirty, her hair tangled from the long run through the castle, clad in a jerkin ripped by cat claws and brown roughspun pants hacked off above her scabby knees. You don't wear skirts and silks when you're catching cats. Quickly she lowered her head and dropped to one knee. Maybe they wouldn't recognize her. If they did, she would never hear the end of it. Septa Mordane would be mortified, and Sansa would never speak to her again from the shame. - Arya III, AGOT

Arya looked down at her ragged clothes and bare feet, all cracked and callused. She saw the dirt under her nails, the scabs on her elbows, the scratches on her hands. Septa Mordane wouldn't even know me, I bet. Sansa might, but she'd pretend not to. - Arya V, ACOK

And we also see Sansa wanting to deny association between her and her sister multiple times during AGOT:

Why couldn't Arya be sweet and delicate and kind, like Princess Myrcella? She would have liked a sister like that. - Sansa I, AGOT

"Send Arya away, she started it, Father, I swear it. I'll be good, you'll see, just let me stay and I promise to be as fine and noble and courteous as the queen." - Sansa III, AGOT

"[...]I have only to remember how your sister set her wolf on my son." "I'm not like Arya," Sansa blurted. "She has the traitor's blood, not me. I'm good, ask Septa Mordane, she'll tell you, I only want to be Joffrey's loyal and loving wife." - Sansa IV, AGOT

Envy is something less present in Sansa's case, but I dare to think there is still a little of it lingering in her feelings. As if we had a cross involving affections and what is perceived by each Stark sister as a special relationship or favouritism between their fraternal foe and a respective parent.

One day she came back grinning her horsey grin, her hair all tangled and her clothes covered in mud, clutching a raggedy bunch of purple and green flowers for Father.  - Sansa II, AGOT

There is envy perhaps not of the relationship itself, but of the liberation that comes with it, but I don't even think this is actually Eddard's fault, I think this has more to do with the overall social conditioning of girlhood in Westeros and with another adult.

Ⅱ. Ⅲ. SEPTA MORDANE AND THE SOCIAL CONDITIONING

Septa Mordane sees Sansa as an exemplary student and she has reasons to do so. Sansa is a good and well mannered girls who fits into the model Septa Mordane is trying to shape the girls into. She performs her assigned gender roles with grace and is willingly doing so. Sansa enjoys being a Lady, it makes her feel worthy and it allows her to daydream and enjoy romantic hobbies like poetry or singing.

Arya doesn't. Partially because she rejects that model, partially because she id rejected by that model. I don't know what came first.

And yet, Sansa also sometimes seems to feel encaged by that model and by the Septa's teachings. And often, when Sansa does something that contradicts this model of conduct that she usually likes following, her thoughts go to Arya. She compares herself or gets compared to Arya, not necessarily in a pejorative manner, but almost seeing her sister as a little devil on her shoulder.

The kitchen yielded no lemon cakes, but they did find half of a cold strawberry pie, and that was almost as good. They ate it on the tower steps, giggling and gossiping and sharing secrets, and Sansa went to bed that night feeling almost as wicked as Arya. - Sansa III, AGOT

Sansa sighed. "They rode with Lord Beric, to behead Ser Gregor Clegane." She turned to Septa Mordane, who was eating porridge with a wooden spoon. "Septa, will Lord Beric spike Ser Gregor's head on his own gate or bring it back here for the king?" She and Jeyne Poole had been arguing over that last night. The septa was horror-struck. "A lady does not discuss such things over her porridge. Where are your courtesies, Sansa? I swear, of late you've been near as bad as your sister." - Sansa III, AGOT

"It was for love," Sansa said in a rush. "Father wouldn't even give me leave to say farewell." She was the good girl, the obedient girl, but she had felt as wicked as Arya that morning, sneaking away from Septa Mordane, defying her lord father. - Sansa IV, AGOT

And who is usually disapproving of Arya's ways and telling her she puts them to shame?

Septa Mordane called after her. "Arya, come back here! Don't you take another step! Your lady mother will hear of this. In front of our royal princess too! You'll shame us all!" - Arya I, AGOT

And knowing how much Sansa cares about the way she is perceived by others, I can imagine Sansa thinking in frustration that it's unfair she gets reprimanded for these type of things when Arya does them all the time without realising that Arya suffers constantly because if it. It's just that they are less common in Sansa, so people are more surprised and "hopeful" of rectifying them. Septa Mordane almost looks at Arya as a lost cause. When she nags at Sansa it's because she wants to avoid Sansa becoming another lost cause.

And it's not that Septa Mordane is an evil witch trying to make Arya's life impossible. As much as I dislike Eddard Stark, I agree with him. This woman is just doing the job he and Cat tasked her to do. It's that she is part of an institution where girls like Arya aren't as valued as girls like Sansa.

Personally, I think she is one of the people carrying the most responsibility over Arya's bullying. I wouldn't say she participates in it, but she enables it.

During AGOT Arya describes Septa Mordane in an unflattering way and it is one of the few occasions where I don't think I should fully trust her POV, because yes, this woman is antagonistic to Arya, but I don't think she hates her.

"Septa Mordane is beside herself with fear. She's in the sept praying for your safe return." - Arya III, AGOT

I think, in her own flawed way, she is trying to "help" Arya adapt into conventional views of gender and Arya is having none of that (good for her!).

"Just where do you think you are going, Arya?" the septa demanded. Arya glared at her. "I have to go shoe a horse," she said sweetly, taking a brief satisfaction in the shock on the septa's face. Then she whirled and made her exit, running down the steps as fast as her feet would take her. - Arya I, AGOT

"Pray, where do you think you are going, young lady?" Septa Mordane asked. "I'm not hungry." Arya found it an effort to remember her courtesies. "May I be excused, please?" she recited stiffly. "You may not," the septa said. "You have scarcely touched your food. You will sit down and clean your plate." "You clean it!" Before anyone could stop her, Arya bolted for the door as the men laughed and Septa Mordane called loudly after her, her voice rising higher and higher. - Arya II, AGOT

Arya spun around, with Needle in her hand. "You better not come in here!" she warned. She slashed at the air savagely. "The Hand will hear of this!" Septa Mordane raged. "I don't care," Arya screamed. "Go away." - Arya II, AGOT

Poor woman is so frustrated with her job she one day passes out drunk on the table.

And I think Sansa suffers under her too, not because she dislikes the customs and views on femininity - she often recalls on Septa Mordane's teachings in moments of emotional need (Lady's armour is courtesy, find the beauty in every man) - but I think that as readers we can see how those are harming for her too.

"I've never seen an aurochs," Sansa said, feeding a piece of bacon to Lady under the table. The direwolf took it from her hand, as delicate as a queen. Septa Mordane sniffed in disapproval. "A noble lady does not feed dogs at her table," she said, breaking off another piece of comb and letting the honey drip down onto her bread. - Sansa II, AGOT

Sansa cried as Septa Mordane marched them down the steps. They were going to take it all away; the tournaments and the court and her prince, everything, they were going to send her back to the bleak grey walls of Winterfell and lock her up forever. Her life was over before it had begun. "Stop that weeping, child," Septa Mordane said sternly. "I am certain your lord father knows what is best for you." - Sansa III, AGOT

That one last passage drives me wild when it comes to Jeyne Poole and you'll see why later.

So basically, Septa Mordane antagonises Arya for her failings as her student. The class (Beth, Sansa & Jeyne) emulates the teacher's disapproval and distaste, Sansa feels embarrassed by association and Jeyne Poole takes advantage of the situation and targets Arya.

And now I can finally get to the true object of my obsession here, beloved middle school mean girl:

Ⅲ. Jeyne Poole and her many mixed emotions

As said, I feel so weird about my love for this girl. People call Theon a "poor little meow meow" but when I first read these books I didn't see him as an anti-hero/minor-villain during ACOK, but more of my avenging hero. I had tears of rage when he was threatening to hang Beth but I was also weirdly cheering for him. Jeyne on the other hand, she is my poor little meow meow! She is my problematic fave! And she makes me cry like crazy and I hope she has the happiest ending in these goddamn books.

I probably feel more attached to her than I feel to Arya and Sansa. I don't understand this. Anyway, I have two possible assumptions for why Jeyne is always antagonising Arya. And yes, she IS ANTAGONISING Arya, even when Arya is no longer there.

"What are you talking about?" Arya asked suddenly. Jeyne gave her a startled look, then giggled. Sansa looked abashed. Beth blushed. No one answered. - Arya I, AGOT

Sansa was too well bred to smile at her sister's disgrace, but Jeyne was smirking on her behalf. - Arya I, AGOT

Jeyne used to call her Arya Horseface, and neigh whenever she came near. - Arya I, AGOT

Jeyne Poole had told Arya that he'd cut him up in so many pieces that they'd given him back to the butcher in a bag, and at first the poor man had thought it was a pig they'd slaughtered.  - Arya II, AGOT

It was all her fault, everything bad that had happened. Sansa said so, and Jeyne too. - Arya II, AGOT

"I saw your sister this afternoon," Jeyne blurted out, as if she'd been reading Sansa's thoughts. "She was walking through the stables on her hands. Why would she do a thing like that?" - Sansa III, AGOT

"I will be a better wife than the real Arya could have been, he'll see." - The Prince of Winterfell, ADWD

"Arya Underfoot. Your sister used to call you Arya Horseface." "It was me made up that name. Her face was long and horsey. Mine isn't. I was pretty." - The Prince of Winterfell, ADWD

You know, this entire thing started because I wanted to make a stupid joke but then I got more emotional and invested into this as I wrote, and now we are here and I don't even remember the actual joke I wanted to make so I have to improvise with the thing above.

I don't believe this is true either. There are absolutely no canon indications for Jeyne to have had been dealing with comphet and bullying Arya because of a crush (there is a rather fun fanfic though!) (and there is another but with angstier and subtler vibes and it's Theyne + Jeynsa). Although, in my opinion, there are a few other things; like class envy and projection!

Ⅲ. Ⅰ. JEYNE POOLE'S CLASS ENVY

I think hers is the most obvious case of envy, but unlike the envy between the Stark sisters it doesn't come from a place of emotional insecurity, but of socio-economical discomfort.

That is why I included "Beric Dondarrion" [insert highborn lord/knight] in that mind map.

Jeyne isn't envious of Arya's relationship with Ned Stark and much less of her skills. Jeyne is envious, and perhaps even particularly resentful, of the fact that Arya is offered AND rejects what Jeyne wishes but will always stay out of her reach.

I have joked about Jeyne's crush on Beric (and her possible implied crushes on Robb & Theon) in the past but I don't think I ever mentioned the class envy when doing so.

When [Jeyne] saw young Lord Beric Dondarrion, with his hair like red gold and his black shield slashed by lightning, she pronounced herself willing to marry him on the instant. - Sansa II, AGOT

She had seen Jeyne Poole giving [Robb] moist-eyed glances, and some of the serving girls, even ones as old as eighteen… - Catelyn XI, AGOT

"Help me." [Jeyne] clutched at [Theon]. "Please. I used to watch you in the yard, playing with your swords. You were so handsome." - The Prince of Winterfell, ADWD

All the men she seems to at some point in her life experience some form of attraction for, even if it is that of a child, it's a puppy crush, just infatuation, are people she would never have a chance with. Two (theoretically) future lord paramounts and a marcher lord. All of them unachievable to a steward's daughter. And with that in consideration, let's look at this:

Arya cocked her head to one side. "Can I be a king's councillor and build castles and become the High Septon?" "You," Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, "will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon." Arya screwed up her face. "No," she said, "that's Sansa." She folded up her right leg and resumed her balancing. Ned sighed and left her there. - Eddard V, AGOT

And I wonder how frustrating that must feel to Jeyne. To see someone who she deems as inferior in skills and manners because of the conditioning they've gone through under Septa Mordane's tutelage, someone who she considers beneath her, be offered and forced things she desperately wants and will never get.

Hell, Jeyne even manifests some juridical administrative knowledge and argues with Sansa about it, something she won't get to do as an adult woman, while Sansa and Arya will rule (their husband's) castles.

"Father's leg, silly. It hurts him ever so much, it makes him cross. Otherwise I'm certain he would have sent Ser Loras." [...] "Ser Ilyn's the King's Justice, not Ser Loras," Jeyne said. "Lord Eddard should have sent him." - Sansa III, AGOT

Not that any of them would be good at ruling anything, they are all middle schoolers at this point, but I think she could have felt vexed at constantly seeing Arya reject all that she wishes she could have for herself.

Please don't misunderstand me, that is still not a valid reason to bully Arya.

There are no valid reasons to bully a child.

But there are reasons behind Jeyne's mentality and actions, and I think some of those reasons come from a sense of resentment over how "easy" things are for Arya because of her status as Lord Stark's daughter.

As Arya Stark, Jeyne's dreams come true, she marries the future paramount Lord of Winterfell and twisted wish fulfilment is one hell of a drug and not one strong enough to numb the pain! And to add insult to injury, the real Arya gets to spend a significant amount of time accompanying Beric Dondarrion and his band of merry men. I fucking hate this!

And while I think that this is the main aspect of Jeyne bullying Arya, there is something more which I haven't seen written elsewhere and I am willing to admit it could be a sketchy interpretation, but I would like to talk about it anyway because it's MY inane post and I get to choose the straws I grasp at!

Ⅲ. Ⅱ. JEYNE POOLE'S LOOKS

We don't have a lot of physical descriptions for Jeyne. Her eyes are the most remarkable feature about her, being described as big, brown and expressive by Theon and Jaime. Sansa and Holly consider her pretty. Theon calls her beautiful, but only when prompted by Ramsay and it's not very believable. In his thoughts he previously claims she is no longer pretty because of the slashes on her back. I don't know how seriously he means this, but I find it remarkable. Asides from that she is described as a skinny, pale, brown haired girl. She describes herself as formerly pretty but not beautiful and when doing so compares herself to Sansa and sees herself as the lesser of the two. And yet, the entire ruse she is later involved in with this pseudo-karmic punishment, is based on her looking similar enough to Arya or the Stark look to pass as one. I always thought it was so extremely funny how defensive she gets when she claims her face isn't horsey, at the mere mention of the "horseface" nickname, even without Theon telling her she looks horsey.

I don't know. It is probably that I'm looking into this with more depth than I should simply because of...obvious reasonsfsgfgsfsghgdnfjdhdf, but who sometimes makes remarks about the Stark look being one of bastards and plain-looking-people?

[Arya] even looked like Jon, with the long face and brown hair of the Starks, and nothing of their lady mother in her face or her coloring. And Jon's mother had been common, or so people whispered.- Sansa I, AGOT

My lord father found some skinny northern girl more or less the same age with more or less the same coloring. - Jaime IX, ASOS

"You [Arya] ought to marry Hodor, you're just like him, stupid and hairy and ugly!" - Sansa III, AGOT

Imagining little Sansa Stark going to vent to little Jeyne Poole after having an argument with her sister and making a perhaps not even genuinely meant comment about little Arya Stark's looks and Jeyne just sitting there mentally competing against Stannis Baratheon in who can grind their teeth the hardest.

While there are no instances of Sansa calling Arya "Horseface" she sometimes remarks to herself and to her sister that she thinks Arya is ugly and looks like a commoner.

And who has class insecurities and also seems to look similar to Arya?

"Jeyne, Jeyne, it rhymes with plain..." I can already imagine her whispering that to herself if she ever hears Theon's rhymes.

"I was never beautiful like Sansa, but they all said I was pretty. Does Lord Ramsay think I am pretty?" - The Prince of Winterfell, ADWD

The only thing Jeyne seems to really have going for her compared to Arya, the thing that could miraculously elevate her, are her looks and even those pale compared to Sansa. As said, she is described as pretty by some, but not beautiful.

In my opinion, the text doesn't really describe Arya as ugly. It is somewhat left up to interpretation since, while Sansa, Cat, Theon and Arya herself give us the impression she might be, there are also textual comparisons to Lyanna and even people who didn't know her think of Arya as beautiful (Lady Smallwood), but since these girls grew up the way they grew up...

I can imagine Jeyne feeling like her "prettiness" is the one thing she thinks can be used to make her more valuable in Westerosi society, and in order to keep that idea of herself being prettier than Arya, she has to make sure Arya doesn't feel good about her looks, so she calls her horseface.

And, if going by this entire text that I've been writing because I am stupid, that is also completely self-destructive and tragicomical !!!

Basically I think it is possible that Jeyne is projecting her own insecurities regarding her looks and her overall sense of inferiority compared to Sansa unto Arya.

And Jeyne has reasons to feel inferior to Sansa beyond simply the class hierarchy and the possible feeling of unattractiveness, because - and now I will get blocked by another load of people if this is read- Sansa is not very good at being a friend to her!

Ⅳ. The Sansa-Jeyne Dynamic

This is one of those things that completely baffles me, same as the Theon-Robb dynamic, where I have no idea how it is possible that my perception in the past ten years has been so drastically different from the majority of the fandom. And I swear to god, I've tried to change my perspective, I read metas, I tried fanfics, and I still don't get it.

This years Sansa month dedicated an entire day to Jeyne Poole.

Someone who is not very well acquainted with the books would probably assume Jeyne Poole is a very important girl in Sansa's narrative based on that information. They'd probably be surprised to find out that, since the two girls were separated, Jeyne Poole is remembered a total number of four times by Sansa Stark.

Sansa thinks of Jeyne Poole a total of four (4) times since AGOT.

In the span of four books in which both Stark sisters go through terribly drastic changes in their lives, Arya thinks of the girl who bullied her three times.

Sansa who loves and misses Jeyne thinks of her four times.

And you are telling me that she is so important to Sansa that she deserves an entire day dedicated to her? And everything that is created in that day is about how Sansa loves her so much and cares for her tremendously and will protect her?

PERSON D: It's because Sansa is traumatised. It pains her too much to think of her. Not thinking of her is a coping mechanism.

"She missed Septa Mordane, and even more Jeyne Poole, her truest friend. The septa had lost her head with the rest, for the crime of serving House Stark. Sansa did not know what had happened to Jeyne, who had disappeared from her rooms afterward, never to be mentioned again. She tried not to think of them too often, yet sometimes the memories came unbidden, and then it was hard to hold back the tears." - Sansa II, ACOK

Person D: See?

Probably! I don't oppose that interpretation, it's very possible. People often suppress painful memories. But I can still disapprove of that coping mechanism. Would you like it if you suddenly disappeared form the face of earth in extremely mysterious circumstances and your friend wouldn't even ask about what happened to you? I don't think I would feel loved and treasured if I were to know that.

I don't like the way their dynamic is perceived by a majority of the fandom based on those four thoughts and the few other times we seen them interact in AGOT.

Person E: Oh OP is just posting anti-Jeynsa stuff because they ship Jeyne, A CHILD, with Theon, AN ADULT MAN AND RAPIST!

I wouldn't consider this anti-Jeynsa since

This is what makes their dynamic intriguing for me. This is the type of Jeynsa I'm into!!!

I don't think their relationship in inherently wrong or that it would be morally condemnable.

Also I don't even really ship Theon & Jeyne as an endgame romantic/sexual ship, not that it wowuld be morally wrong for anyone to do so. I "ship" it as a very turbulent dynamic between two people who have been forced to bond by the horrible circumstances they have been in and who have had the boundaries that define certain relationship dynamics blurred in some very traumatic ways. I "ship it" in the sense that I would like to see both of them find some tranquility and peace in their lives and try to explore which of those blurred boundaries they wish to reestablish, keep blurred or fully erase. Hell, I wrote a 100k fanfic focusing on their relationship and didn't even let them be endgame. I didn't even let them be actually in love.

It's just that "cute, loving, soft, homoromantic childhood best friends" isn't the dynamic I'm usually interested in.

And I don't think the Jeynsa dynamic is that.

I think there are class issues and inferiorities to be explored. I think Sansa is true in her affections for Jeyne, she loves her and sees her as a friend, but she is also diminishing and tends to look down on her, and regardless if it is a coping mechanism or not, she shows no interest in finding out what happened to who she considers her "truest friend".

And I don't believe Sansa is a bad person for this, I believe she is a young girl. Relationships between women are complicated enough already. Relationships between pre-teen and teen girls have entire studies dedicated to them.

Person F: How much would Sansa even consider her as a bff? In their bullying of Arya, Jeyne comes across as the acolyte to Queen Bea Sansa. And that's just modern projection. Jeyne is from a minor house. She's just a steward's daughter. She's just slightly above a servant in feudalist hierarchy. She's assigned to be her "friend" coz she's conveniently the same age, and that's just what you did then. Like "milk-siblings", servants who shared a wetnurse with a lord. (1/2)(2/2) Lower houses are fancy domesticity to the greater houses. The great nobility is fancy domesticity to royalty. That's just how feudalism worked. Everyone was thought of as a servant, the entirety of society was built on a network of servitude and dependance. Even the king is a servant: to God. Or "Gods" in the case of ASOIAF. Hence all the conclicts between church and royalty.

I saw this comment a while ago on a Tumblr post (I'm not putting a source link because I don't believe that would be fair to them and also it's older than a year) and I don't like it.

I think it is unfairly villainising Sansa and also removing Jeyne's agency in that situation by putting her as an "acolyte" (assistant, follower), when the composition of our first scene involving them, in my opinion, shows her as an adviser. I also don't like how it is pretending that Jeyne is being forced to be Sansa's friend and if going by that logic, then why isn't Beth being forced to be Arya's friend?

I disagree with it. I think it simplifies a more complex situation.

But I wish we were allowed to explore the less wholesome aspects in the Jeyne-Sansa dynamic without being instantaneously labeled as a Sansa-anti and it is what I'll attempt.

Something I always found very endearing and relatable about Sansa was how much she craved for friends - especially female friends - since she is left alone in King's Landing.

It had been so long since she had enjoyed the company of other women, she had almost forgotten how pleasant it could be. - Sansa II, ASOS

How am I supposed not to feel my heart ache in bittersweetness? My favourite Sansa "friendship" is actually the one she builds with Garlan Tyrell, but this is a moment of bliss.

It's interesting how Sansa often finds amusement in female friends who act very differently from how she does, but as her character evolves in the books her feelings for those types of companions also seem to change.

We have Jeyne, Margaery and Myranda, as her "friends", characters with whom she experiences very different dynamics and I think it is at least partially involved with their classes too.

Jeyne is the one she treats the most poorly, in my opinion. Ignoring how little she thinks of her after Jeyne is taken away by Littlefinger, let's see some of their previous interactions and let's also keep in mind that Sansa is (at most) a 12-year-old girl not having a very good time and she deserves compassion:

[...] Jeyne and Sansa cried out in unison as riders crashed together, lances exploding into splinters while the commons screamed for their favorites. Jeyne covered her eyes whenever a man fell, like a frightened little girl, but Sansa was made of sterner stuff. A great lady knew how to behave at tournaments. Even Septa Mordane noted her composure and nodded in approval. - Sansa II, AGOT

Sansa feels superior to Jeyne for staying calm at the face of violence. This will become a pattern.

Jeyne Poole wept so hysterically that Septa Mordane finally took her off to regain her composure, but Sansa sat with her hands folded in her lap, watching with a strange fascination. [...] By then Septa Mordane had returned, alone. Jeyne had been feeling ill, she explained; she had helped her back to the castle. Sansa had almost forgotten about Jeyne. - Sansa II, AGOT

Jeyne is hysterical after seeing a man die at the tourney, Sansa isn't very concerned for her friend's mental state.

"His leg?" Jeyne said uncertainly. She was a pretty, dark-haired girl of Sansa's own age. "Did Ser Loras hurt his leg?" "Not his leg," Sansa said, nibbling delicately at a chicken leg. "Father's leg, silly. It hurts him ever so much, it makes him cross. Otherwise I'm certain he would have sent Ser Loras." - Sansa III, AGOT

"Silly". It could be solely meant with endearment, but throughout that scene Sansa is in a bad mood and I wonder how Jeyne might have perceived it given she continues arguing with her about juridical administration and contradicts Sansa.

Of course, Jeyne had been in love with Lord Beric ever since she had first glimpsed him in the lists. Sansa thought she was being silly; Jeyne was only a steward's daughter, after all, and no matter how much she mooned after him, Lord Beric would never look at someone so far beneath him, even if she hadn't been half his age. - Sansa III, AGOT

Again, "silly", and this time with a slightly classist connotation. And the saddest thing is that Sansa is right, but she often daydreams of unrealistic or impossible romantic scenarios herself and had a crush on Waymar Royce, a man who was older than her, of lower nobility and about to make a vow of celibacy. Why is Jeyne the silly one for daydreaming?

"They're killing everyone," the steward's daughter had shrieked at her. She went on and on. The Hound had broken down her door with a warhammer, she said. There were bodies on the stair of the Tower of the Hand, and the steps were slick with blood. Sansa dried her own tears as she struggled to comfort her friend. They went to sleep in the same bed, cradled in each other's arms like sisters. The second day was even worse. [...] The only sounds were Jeyne Poole's endless whimpers and sobs. - Sansa IV, AGOT

Jeyne Poole had been confined with her, but Jeyne was useless. Her face was puffy from all her crying, and she could not seem to stop sobbing about her father. "I'm certain your father is well," Sansa told her when she had finally gotten the dress buttoned right. "I'll ask the queen to let you see him." She thought that kindness might lift Jeyne's spirits, but the other girl just looked at her with red, swollen eyes and began to cry all the harder. She was such a child. - Sansa IV, AGOT

Remember what I said about Septa Mordane's "Stop weeping, child."? Sansa is vexed by her crying although Sansa cries herself, thinks of her as useless, she thinks demeaningly of Jeyne because she is crying after realising her father has been killed..

"Jeyne's scared," Sansa said. "She won't stop crying. I promised her I'd ask if she could see her father." - Sansa IV, AGOT

This feels like a twisted version of the first passage in this list. Sansa is scared herself, we know this because she was trembling as she dressed, but she speaks only of Jeyne's fear.

Jeyne Poole and all her things were gone when Ser Mandon Moore returned Sansa to the high tower of Maegor's Holdfast. No more weeping, she thought gratefully. - Sansa IV, AGOT

Sansa, love, I know you are very stressed out but come on open your eyes!

Somehow this reminds me a bit of a less extreme version of Theon's inconsistencies in thoughts and actions involving Jeyne in ADWD. He is very crude when thinking of her, but if you go through his actual treatment of her, he is surprisingly tender. The only exception I can think of for them is in TWOW.

With Sansa, I think it is similar, but whereas Theon is painfully aware of how perilous their lives as Ramsay's playthings are, Sansa constantly refuses to see the gravity of their situation and thus is dismissive of Jeyne in a moment where it becomes terribly cruel. I don't think she doesn't love Jeyne, of course, she does,

The kitchen yielded no lemon cakes, but they did find half of a cold strawberry pie, and that was almost as good. They ate it on the tower steps, giggling and gossiping and sharing secrets, - Sansa III, AGOT

"Where are you sending her? She hasn't done anything wrong, she's a good girl." - Sansa IV, AGOT

No more weeping, she thought gratefully. Yet somehow it seemed colder with Jeyne gone, even after she'd built a fire. - Sansa IV, AGOT

She missed Septa Mordane, and even more Jeyne Poole, her truest friend. [...] Sansa did not know what had happened to Jeyne, who had disappeared from her rooms afterward, never to be mentioned again. - Sansa II, ACOK

She sang for her mother and her father, for her grandfather Lord Hoster and her uncle Edmure Tully, for her friend Jeyne Poole, - Sansa V, ACOK

She had not had a friend to gossip with since poor Jeyne Poole. - Alayne II, AFFC

Remembering bright cold days at Winterfell, when she would race through Winterfell with her friend Jeyne Poole, with Arya running after them trying to keep up. - Alayne I, TWOW

I think Sansa just sometimes takes her for granted.

I think it's sad because it's realistic and it hurts even more when you compare her treatment of Jeyne to her treatment of Margaery and Myranda after going through a period of hostile isolation and a heartbreaking customary middle school betrayal, two things that I believe influence her feelings for both girls.

With Margaery and her posse, she is idealistic. She considers Margaery to be kind, brave and wise, and finds bliss (and a little bit of envy and gayness, ooooh) in the company of her ladies.

Margaery's kindness had been unfailing, and her presence changed everything. Her ladies welcomed Sansa as well. It had been so long since she had enjoyed the company of other women, she had almost forgotten how pleasant it could be. Lady Leonette gave her lessons on the high harp, and Lady Janna shared all the choice gossip. Merry Crane always had an amusing story, and little Lady Bulwer reminded her of Arya, though not so fierce. Closest to Sansa's own age were the cousins Elinor, Alla, and Megga, Tyrells from junior branches of the House. "Roses from lower on the bush," quipped Elinor, who was witty and willowy. Megga was round and loud, Alla shy and pretty, but Elinor ruled the three by right of womanhood; she was a maiden flowered, whereas Megga and Alla were mere girls. The cousins took Sansa into their company as if they had known her all their lives. They spent long afternoons doing needlework and talking over lemon cakes and honeyed wine, played at tiles of an evening, sang together in the castle sept ... and often one or two of them would be chosen to share Margaery's bed, where they would whisper half the night away. Alla had a lovely voice, and when coaxed would play the woodharp and sing songs of chivalry and lost loves. Megga couldn't sing, but she was mad to be kissed. She and Alla played a kissing game sometimes, she confessed, but it wasn't the same as kissing a man, much less a king. - Sansa II, ASOS

There is a direct comparison to Arya, mentions of many of Sansa's hobbies, some sapphicness, and if I squint my eyes the needlework and lemon cakes remind me of Jeyne & Beth. And then...Sansa is made to marry Tyrion and that match frustrates the Tyrell's ambitions.

And here Sansa found the Tyrells. Margaery gave her such a sad look, and when the Queen of Thorns tottered in between Left and Right, she never looked at her at all. Elinor, Alla, and Megga seemed determined not to know her. My friends, Sansa thought bitterly. - Sansa III, ASOS

After that emotional betrayal, Sansa spends more time of isolation and this time it's even more depressing in my opinion. The few people who show her kindness are also somewhat compliant in her misery and then she gets abducted by Petyr Baelish and has to take the role of his bastard daughter, Alayne Stone. Under this guise she meets Myranda Royce and Mya Stone.

While I would say she befriends both girls, her connection with Randa resembles that which she had with Jeyne and Margaery more than her connection with Mya. Both of them share some common interests and Myranda, isn't disdainful at all of her supposed bastardy.

Person G: That's because she is cunning and suspects Alayne is actually highborn.

I'm not so convinced by that argument! She is described of being as closes as sisters with Mya Stone, another bastard.

Sansa's distrust for Myranda is, in my opinion, only partially fuelled by Littlefinger's words.

"Soon or late you must meet Myranda Royce," Petyr had warned her. "When you do, be careful. She likes to play the merry fool, but underneath she's shrewder than her father. Guard your tongue around her." - Alayne II, AFFC

I think her distrust comes mostly from her last close homosocial relationship having been a farce, from feeling manipulated, used and deceived. And that mistrust remains but is worn down by Randa's warm personality.

I think there is is something very sweet about comparing the following passages:

Sansa knelt at the feet of her future queen. "You do me great honor, Your Grace." "Won't you call me Margaery? Please, rise. Loras, help the Lady Sansa to her feet. Might I call you Sansa?" - Sansa I, ASOS

"Kind?" The older girl gave a laugh. "How boring that would be. I aspire to be wicked. You must tell me all your secrets on the ride down. May I call you Alayne?" "If you wish, my lady." But you'll get no secrets from me. "I am 'my lady' at the Gates, but up here on the mountain you may call me Randa. How many years have you, Alayne?" [...] "As you say, my lady." "Randa. Come now, you can say it. Ran. Da." "Randa." - Alayne II, AFFC

It's curious how in both cases there is this chance of friendship being offered to Sansa by a girl who has a higher rank than her but one is done much more courteously than the other. Sansa never calls Myranda "Randa" again, but as she warms up to her she begins referring to her as such in the narration. I think that is very heartwarming.

Maybe it is stupid to complain about the idealisation of a flawed friendship in these books, but I think the reason it annoys me so much is because it removes this type of development in Sansa's socialising. Her interactions with Myranda are delightful to read and I think it's the healthiest friendship she has formed yet.

And Myranda also embodies aspects of Margaery and Jeyne, so it's an even funnier conclusion. She is a little bit less ladylike than Sansa, but is still comfortable with her gender and the assigned roles, she is a little foul mouthed, she likes to gossip and to take friends to her bed (in an apparent not-sexual way).

"Lothor Brune?" Myranda raised an eyebrow. "Does she know?" She did not wait for an answer. "He has no hope, poor man. My father's tried to make a match for Mya, but she'll have none of them. She is half mule, that one." Despite herself, Alayne found herself warming to the older girl. She had not had a friend to gossip with since poor Jeyne Poole. "Do you think Ser Lothor likes her as she is, in mail and leather?" she asked the older girl, who seemed so worldly-wise. "Or does he dream of her draped in silks and velvets?" "He's a man. He dreams of her naked." She is trying to make me blush again. Lady Myranda must have heard her thoughts. "You do turn such a pretty shade of pink. When I blush I look quite like an apple. I have not blushed for years, though." She leaned closer. "Does your father plan to wed again?" - Alayne II, AFFC

Even Lady Myranda began to yawn and complain of being weary. "We have apartments prepared for all of you," she told Alayne, "but if you like you may share my bed tonight. It's large enough for four." "I should be honored, my lady." "Randa. Count yourself fortunate that I'm so tired. All I want to do is curl up and go to sleep. Usually when ladies share my bed they have to pay a pillow tax and tell me all about the wicked things they've done." "What if they haven't done any wicked things?" "Why, then they must confess all the wicked things they want to do. Not you, of course. I can see how virtuous you are just by looking at those rosy cheeks and big blue eyes of yours." She yawned again. "I hope your feet are warm. I do hate bedmaids with cold feet." - Alayne II, AFFC

"I do hope you will forgive me for depriving you of Lady Myranda's company," Alayne told the knights. She did not wait for a reply, but took the older girl arm-in-arm and drew her away from the bench. Only when they were out of earshot did she whisper, "Do you really know where my father is?" "Of course not. Walk faster, my new suitors may be following." Myranda made a face. "Ossifer Lipps is the dullest knight in the Vale, but Uther Shett aspires to his laurels. I am praying they fight a duel for my hand, and kill each other." Alayne giggled. "Surely Lord Nestor would not seriously entertain a suit from such men." - Alayne I, TWOW

"Too late," Myranda said. "They're here. We shall need to do the honors by ourselves." She grinned. "Last one to the gate must marry Uther Shett." They made a race of it, dashing headlong across the yard and past the stables, skirts flapping, whilst knights and serving men alike looked on, and pigs and chickens scattered before them. It was most unladylike, but Alayne sound found herself laughing. For just a little while, as she ran, she forget who she was, and where, and found herself remembering bright cold days at Winterfell, when she would race through Winterfell with her friend Jeyne Poole, with Arya running after them trying to keep up. By the time they arrived at the gatehouse, both of them were red-faced and panting. Myranda had lost her cloak somewhere along the way. They were just in time. - Alayne I, TWOW 

I don't even ship them (Mya x Myranda and Sansa x Brienne ftw), and this doesn't have anything to do with the theme of whatever this text turned into, but I love their dynamic so much I would ship it if it became canon. It's adorable and funny and out of her dynamics with other girls, this one is my favourite.

We know that the Sansa-Margaery friendship turned out disappointingly, and some have the suspicion that Myranda could act as a new tormentor for Sansa, and I have no way to disprove that, but seeing her development in regards to female friendships makes me at least doubt it.

She took Jeyne for granted and was disdainful, spent a time of hostile isolation, met Margaery and her ladies, went through the horrors of idealisation and crashed against the truth, spent even more time alone and kept the wounds from her sorrow, and is now apparently finding a healthy friendship with Myranda Royce and I love that for her.

It makes me wonder how her feelings for Jeyne could evolve if they get to meet again, and whether she will be more conscious of how their friendship was flawed. Of how she should have probably tried to be more attentive to the dynamic between Jeyne & Arya, of how she perhaps shouldn't have been passive about Jeyne's bullying nor participated in it.

As I write I am checking everything in my journals and I couldn't find a single occasion in which we see Sansa calling Arya "Horseface", but I did however find her thinking of Arya's looks as "horsey" with a negative connotation:

Her long horsey face got the stubborn look that meant she was going to do something willful. [...] One day she came back grinning her horsey grin, her hair all tangled and her clothes covered in mud, clutching a raggedy bunch of purple and green flowers for Father.  - Sansa II, AGOT

She also giggles at and uses Jeyne's nicknames for Hobber and Horas Redwyne:

The Redwyne twins, Ser Horas and Ser Hobber, homely youths with orange hair and square, freckled faces. Sansa and Jeyne Poole used to call them Ser Horror and Ser Slobber, and giggle whenever they caught sight of them. - Arya V, AGOT

She recognized black-skinned Jalabhar Xho, gloomy Ser Aron Santagar, the Redwyne twins Horror and Slobber - Sansa V, ACOK

Paxter Redwyne, Lord of the Arbor, marched down the length of the hall flanked by his twin sons Horror and Slobber, - Sansa VIII, ACOK

And seeing her snicker at those names is already enough for me to pin her as a passive victimiser in their case. Even if she felt bad about it, something I could find no indication of. Sansa doesn't think of how painful it must be for them to be referred to that way, how dehumanising it is.

So, with that information, I don't think she's above having called Arya "Horseface".

Ⅴ. Adulthood

Where are the adults? Why is it that during the entire time we spend with these three girls under the care of Septa Mordane, Ned and Catelyn Stark and Vayon Poole we never see them taking action and putting a stop to this?

DontbotherwiththepronunciationRightNowRealisingTheySpentWayTooMuchFuckingTimeDevelopingAPunchlineTheyLost: Probably because this book isn't about medieval setting middle school bullying, you idiot! And there is a lot of really urgent stuff going on with the adults. Get over yourself.

Yeah...

But still! Prior to all that, prior to the story we've been reading, these characters existed in their own universe and in that universe, all these girls have been judged by adult society and have been set in a toxic environment that unintentionally allows and encourages the bullying.

I already explained that when talking about Septa Mordane.

My question now isn't whether we should fault the adults or not, but more about how this would have developed as Arya, Jeyne and Sansa all became adults.

Of corse, this is all speculation on a rather unimportant topic that has been discussed hundreds of times before and my opinion is probably somewhat tainted by lingering emotions, so yeah this might have been worthless but I couldn't sleep and it was a little fun.

Perhaps because of my own issues with bullying, which were handed very poorly by the adults who should have solved it, I like daydreaming about these three girls, all of who I like and wish good things upon, and wondering whether they would have been able to solve their problems as they matured into adulthood if their lives had remained peaceful. I sadly don't think they would have.

Throughout the entire text I wrote, I felt like walking on egg shells because, as you can probably see if you just look at my blog, I barely talk about Arya or Sansa and I know there is a lot of tension between fans of those characters and I didn't want to say anything that could feel offensive and somehow it was still surprisingly easy to write this. I think maybe it is because I don't relate to any of the characters, like I do with Theon or Barbrey, so I can distance myself from it a little more. On the other hand, this is a topic that still haunts me.

I really don't think they would have solved any of this if they had remained in Winterfell with things going the way they usually went.

But now, after being completely torn and victimised by war in extremely different ways that still somehow manage to bring similar themes to their stories (the always present threat of sexual abuse, the weaponising of a person, depersonalisation, dead parents, a broken home, losing their privileges as highborn, being saved by the Hound), once they reunite and are the only bonds that remains of a happier time, I think they could.

Maybe their newly found maturity and the despair born out of tragedy could make it easier to overcome all their past offences and forge a bond.

It's strange. I always go for the bitter, resentful and scorned women - I wonder why - (Barb, Cersei) or those who have aspects I can relate to cultural duality, immigration or rootlessness (Theon, Dany) but never for the more-or-less-happily-gender-conforming "damsel in distress", much less for one who reminds me of some of the worst people I've met, and yet out of the three girls involved in this she is the one I am the most attached to.

I think she mostly grew on me after I learnt she was omitted from the show and that her narrative was given to Sansa because that is such a cruel joke from D&D.

Jeyne Poole: Hey! I am the character meant to show how everyone is valuable, worthy and deserving of being saved and protected and how everyone matters and also to further develop Theon's character while functioning as a symbol of his culpability and regret of the three vilest things he has done(among other things of course)! D&D: Ok, we are cutting her because she is not important enough to matter. Give her plot to the barely adult red-headed Stark so Theon can find redemption by saving a Stark and getting a wolf pin and we can shiptease Sansa with a bunch of people and marketise her as an ice queen girlboss.

It's so mean it's a little funny. On a meta level I think she is the biggest loser in this series. I think that is why I like her so much. I liked her before I knew of that and I remember crying at @/croclock's art of her and Theon escaping (1) (2) (3), but I didn't feel as emotionally attached to her until after I found out.

I remember when I watched the show there was a scene that caused a lot of controversy that I can somehow relate to this.

Sandor Clegane: You've changed, Little Bird. None of it would have happened if you'd left King's Landing with me. No Littlefinger, no Ramsay... none of it. Sansa Stark: Without Littlefinger and Ramsay and the rest, I would have stayed a Little Bird all my life.

And of course this dialogue is gross and it doesn't make any sense in the books, and I still wrote it down on my journals because I think, maybe trying to be an optimist, that the message behind it was different than what was actually said???

It comes across as "I'm happy and grateful I was abused and raped" which is nauseating, obviously, but I think it was rather supposed to be more of a "All the choices I've made across my life and all the events that occurred through it have lead me here, to become the person I am today and I am proud of that person." which could still have been controversial, but is something I would have agreed with more, and it's not something I would only apply on these girls.

Maybe we'll get such a moment at some point with a better execution, hopefully, in the books.