#but I think the Coppola one was the better hate watch

[msfbgraves]

What do you think of The Godfather Part 3? I honestly hate most of it, it just feels like poorly written fanfiction lol. I can't decide what's the worst bit: Mary, Mary and Vincent's incestuous relationship (WHY!!), Michael and Kay, Michael being totally OOC (smiling, being jovial), Michael's truly horrible haircut (might be the single worst offender for me OMG)...just a bad film in my opinion. I like to pretend it doesn't exist.

I personally really like Sherlock series 1 and 2, and ignore the existence of the rest of it, pretty much. That works fine. But if you don't mind me feeling differently while understanding where you're coming from, Nonnie - I really like the Godfather Coda, the Death of Michael Corleone. Part III, the first cut, nah, I think we can put that aside. And yes, the difference in Michael is too jarring for the most part. I've watched Pacino in different things, and he seems to prefer playing more extrovert men, and seems to have decided playing Michael that way was what felt best to him. And I could see it - there are some hints of that Michael very early in film 1 with Kay - but they'd need to do a better job bridging that gap visually. I can forgive it, because I do see this film as Don Corleone desperately trying to go back to being a man, Michael Andolini if you will, the man he would have been had he not picked up the mantle of Don, the man he can't ever be. Vito saw the tragedy in his son picking up that mantle, he almost apologised: "There wasn't enough time, Michael." Michael now sees Vincent being hungry for it while he cannot escape how his own choices are eating at him. When he wants his son to join him, he is rebuffed. When he forbids his daughter to join him through Vincent,he is rebuffed. I think the figure of Mary shows very clearly how he has lost all the loves of his life to this crime, in the dancing scenes: Apollonia, Kay, yes, Kay, people, and now the one who yet loves him as a man first - Mary. Connie, too, has been entirely corrupted.

The third Godfather gives us a whole film about this stage of alienation and power slipping from us, while framing the rise of Vincent not as a triumph but as a horror. Vito's rising was mostly triumphant, as he honoured his relationships. Michael's rising was terrible on everyone he loved... and Vincent's rising through Michael's eyes is sleazy. A rotten thing that Michael can't escape.

But most gangster films give that a couple of scenes at most, indeed a coda... but Coppola was like: if you insist on milking this, I refuse to go easy on you. I will not do it, I will give you the wreckage I spent two films building up.

Artistically brave, but a genre break, and a sad thing too that these men can't figure out a way to include a young woman in this action other than through love. Cousins marrying was not totally unheard of in the Sicilian old world, though, I don't think. Small island, few newcomers. These things die out hard. Just another way to show how this old world clashes with the life Michael chases and can never reach - through his own choices! It's a true tragedy! Could he have done differently? Yes, but also no, he is Michael. Who bears the emotional fallout of this, and this I love - the women! The ones who are supposedly so cutoff from all this! Connie gets abused, widowed, and has to submit to her own brother in an effort to save the other and herself. Again, she's lost two siblings and a husband to this violence! Kay lives in terror and still loses a daughter. Mary - poorly acted Mary, I'm sorry, even recut the others outshine her too much - killed by a bullet meant for Michael, and Michael, forced to live with his failure exiled in the Sicily he tried all his life to leave behind... it's tonally a break and not at all what a lot of fans of the first two would have come to the cinema for. But what do I think?

I think despite its flaws it's brave and necessary.

I mean I love that Michael ends this film alone, ashamed and cursedly alive.

[mysoftboybensolo]

My Completely Unasked but Needed Review of BBC's Dracula "The Dark Compass" Subplot

I had no real interest in watching the BBC's Dracula, especially since I heard not so good things from it, but after seeing the post by @luanna801 (x) I was compelled since Jack is one of my favorites from Dracula and I'm growing an interest in the actor Matthew Beard. So I figured I watch "The Dark Compass" with all the Jack/Lucy bits, and, well, there's a lot to discuss here. Warning, very long post, please bear with me, I have a point.

Storyline:

Now set in the modern day, we see Jack getting ready in his house, ignoring the Jonathan Harker foundation, but picks up when he sees Lucy is calling him. She says that he can bring someone with him to the club tonight, and we see that they are clearly not in a romantic relationship, despite Jack having her picture as his home screen. A shot to Lucy in her own room taking selfies, ignoring her mother who is calling for her.

Jack arrives at the club alone, and has hearteyes for Lucy, who is dancing. She then introduces her friends to Quincy Morris, an American from Texas, and he's rich. Jack and Quincy talk, where we find out Jack is a student and junior doctor, wanting to specialize in mental health. Quincy doesn't seem to really care much for Lucy, saying he probably wouldn't be interested in her if she was not pretty, the same why she probably wouldn't be interested in him if he was poor. Outside, Zev, a gay friend of Lucy, tells her that he thinks she's a bit mean to Jack, who is clearly is in love with her, and she responds coldly. He tries to make Jack feel better, but after seeing Quincy propose, Jack accepts the call from the Harker foundation.

He is a student of Zoe Van Helsing, who suggested to him being part of the program for easy money to help his schooling, and they are debriefed on Dracula's return. Dracula is released from their custody because of lawyer Renfield, and Dracula steals Jack's phone, starting a conversation with Lucy. Now on her bachelorette party, Lucy decides she'll met Dracula, disregarding the fact that she is getting married real soon. They have a discussion of death, and Lucy is so disinterested in death that Dracula is drawn to make her a bride.

Jack is called by Zev to check on Lucy as she refuses to see doctors, and he sees the bite marks, informing Zoe. Lucy dies, and is cremating, which is something Dracula warned her about. Zoe and Jack confront Dracula, and Lucy turns up, unaware that she is no longer the beautiful young woman she was, but a horribly burned shell of herself. Jack, who was at first shocked and frightened at an undead Lucy, offers to kiss Lucy, reminding her that he had loved her and would always love her. They kiss and she feels the wooden stake in his hands, but rather than being upset, she begs him to kill her, and does, ending her misery. Dracula is mildly annoyed at her death, calling her an experiment, but Jack tells him that Lucy was never Dracula's or even Jack's. Zoe then, realizing what Dracula's weakness is, tells Jack to go, and despite his initial refusal, he goes when he sees the sun rising, leaving the place, saying "It's going to be a beautiful day."

Questions/Comments:

Ok, so this was, not great. Jack, played by Matthew Beard, was great, and it is such a shame that a Jack this good is in a plot line that is so bad. And really, the biggest flaw is in Lucy's character. In the book, Lucy is a sweet, innocent, and loving individual who hates to make anyone unhappy, but here, she is the total opposite of that. Something I can give Coppola's version of Lucy is that, while she is a flirt/promiscuous, is that she is at least kind. She cares deeply for Mina, is kind to her two other suitors and doesn't make them feel bad for not choosing them, but BBC's Lucy is so mean for no reason. She treats Jack poorly which made me wonder why he is so in love with her, especially since she barely takes note of him through the episode unless it's to laugh at him. This is not the fault of the actress, I think the actors were good, it's just their characters were so poorly written.

I am not saying Lucy owes Jack anything, but she is so mean about his feelings that it really bordered on bullying. I also am confused by the nature of their relationships. They are friends, but they slept together, but they still are hanging out? Is this an allosexual thing that am not getting? I wished that there was some explanation of how they were friends and exactly why he continues to hang out with her, even if it was for a sad, pathetic reason.

I also hated what they did to Quincy, because in the book he was a good character and, like Jack, loves her but respects her choice to choose Arthur. Here, he's a jerk who only seems to care about Lucy because she's beautiful and leaves immediately after her funeral back to America. The only nice characters in this segment was Jack and Zev, and they really got the short end of the stick here.

The one thing I can say I liked was the switch in the end with the "Bloofer Lady". In the book, when Lucy comes back, the children she attacks refer to her as "Bloofer Lady" and subverted expectations here was nice, but the build up to it was not great, because they were expecting the audience to care about her.

Changes I'd Make:

Keeping the general plot line, here is what I would have done. Have Lucy call Jack and instead of saying he's stalking her because he's being sentimental (weird, but whatever) have her be nicer to him, maybe asking if he's tired and if work is draining him, he doesn't have to come, but he insists because she wants him there. Have her not be aware that he has romantic feelings for her until the end, and she just thinks he's just being a great friend. Then we can keep Lucy being an influencer, but is unhappy about how people around her only see her as a pretty face, and not seeing her as anything more. Taking a cue from @forthegothicheroine make Mrs. Westenra be a bit antagonistic by fueling Lucy's insecurity by saying how she doesn't have to go to school when she could just marry a rich man, an easy thing for her since she's so pretty.

When Jack does to the club, have Lucy be so happy he's there, and introduce Quincy to everyone. Have it be that she and Quincy have been talking and having a long distance relationship and they finally met in person. The talk between Jack and Quincy can reveal more of the relationships the men have with Lucy. Maybe Jack met Lucy in college where he was a tutor to her and they grew to be friends. Quincy and she met on a dating app and although it's been three months, Quincy is nuts about her. Imagine their relationship being similar to the typical high school quarterback with the head cheerleader, but while they look like a good couple, one of them is not really happy because they want more. This would make Quincy a lot nicer, where he is misguided in what he believes Lucy is and loves her for that.

Zev sees that Jack is in love with Lucy, and tries to comfort him, even suggesting that he say something, considering that Lucy and Quincy have only dated for a short time, can't be serious. But then Quincy proposes, and Jack, disheartened, goes to the Harker foundation. Dracula still steals his phone, but instead of Lucy talking to him as a flirt, she has a one conversation with him, and intrigued, Dracula stalks her through her social media and sees she is out with her friends for her bachelorette party and goes to find her.

Lucy, having a moment of panic, realizing she really does not love Quincy and is only marrying him because everyone is expecting it of her and he is a good man, but he really doesn't know her, goes outside for fresh air. She meets Dracula, and feeling like she wants to escape, maybe wants to die, Dracula offers her the way out. Zev finds her, and asks Jack to check in on her. Let there be a nice moment between them, where Lucy is appreciative and sorry to drag him into this, but he dismisses her worries and checks on her. Seeing the marks he calls Zoe and Lucy dies.

After the funeral, Jack checks in on a distraught Quincy, who is devastated by her death, can't bear to stay in England so decides to return home, but says that if Jack's ever in America to look him up (which would be a nice reference to the friendship in the book). Keep Lucy being burned and meeting with Dracula, but have her interactions with Jack and Zoe a lot nicer. She'd say how happy she was to see Jack and be introduced to Zoe, who she knows because Jack talks about her.

Lucy would say to Jack how she could only imagine how happy her mother will be now, now that her little girl will always be beautiful, and people will always love her. She'll find out she's burned because Zoe suggests she take a picture to send to her mom, and she'll see that she is no longer beautiful. Have Dracula backhandedly comfort her but Jack to step in and say he'll kiss her, which leads to him admitting his feelings, making Lucy realize not only that Jack has been in love with her for the longest time, but also that despite how she looks, he still loves her for her. This would make her story more bittersweet, as she would have at last known that someone loved her for her, but to die when she did get that love.

I think this direction would have made it much better and less insulting to the original characters than the BBC did to them.

Tagging those who I think might be interested: @forthegothicheroine @luanna801 @spider-xan @the-timelord-a-tardis-stole @angelsbesides @spookbot

[livvyofthelake]

movie may RANKED worst to best i think is more fun so let’s go <3 ok there’s only 30 because i didn’t feel like including the comedy special in the ranking. anyway.

30. starting off DEAD LAST NO CONTEST. not another teen movie (day 16 pt 1). it was bad. movie that claims to critique misogynistic tropes in teen movies while upholding a worse more disgusting misogyny. wow. also i didn’t laugh once. however i do think chris evans should have been contained to this genre instead of superhero movies this is literally where he belongs. anyway. movie was bad

29. friday night lights (day 5). listen the show isn’t the best thing ever but truly this movie made it look genuinely groundbreakingly progressive. i don’t really even remember this movie but i remember that it sucked

28. after ever happy (day 15). easily the second worst after movie.

27. all the wilderness (day 27). frankly. i don’t know why i watched this it wasn’t on my list it just has a guy in it. anyway it wasn’t that good but it wasn’t the worst thing i’ve ever seen

26. naked singularity (day 24). movie based on a book i didn’t read and i feel like the book is probably much better and makes way more sense. but john boyega is kinda fine soo…. also my buddy bill skarsgard was there. and olivia cooke. and she was hot. there are worse ways to spend 90 minutes. see number 30.

25. romeo and juliet 2013 (day 17). julian fellowes tries to ruin romeo and juliet. fortunately there was enough slay in the flop that it didn’t suck that bad. my friend benvolio :)

24. the lost girls (day 30). like if the sisterhood of the traveling pants was about wendy darling. and bad. but bad with a Vision. feminism win also. love it when women can’t act

23. three months (day 8). not good but made me cry so. and troye sivan was there

22. 80 for brady (day 11 pt 1). LOVE comedies about old women!! who are WEIRD about that man!! (tom brady). yeah it was as bad as you expect it to be but it was fun <3

21. footloose (day 19). there was so much flop in this movie. and yet there was enough slay to even it out in the end. i loved ren and willard’s gay little dance lesson montage so much…

20. shakespeare in love (day 29 pt 1) if a good movie was bad. if a bad movie was good. yeah

19. the count of monte cristo 2002 (day 22) some would call this movie bad. they’re right of course but also WRONG AS HELL. you had to be there. teenage henry cavill is there and that’s not even the weirdest part

18. merlin’s apprentice (day 13). HATERS will hate this two part three hour miniseries. they did not understand it though. first of all the two romantic leads of this got real life married after they met here and now have three kids. and one of them is meghan ory of abc’s once upon a time fame. so love is real jot that down

17. game night (day 4) FUN movie. and rachel mcadams was there

16. the beguiled (day 18). i liked the part where they killed him :) also i think sofia coppola slayed the aesthetics of this so i will never be watching the original peace and love xoxo

15. murder mystery 2 (day 23). i had SO much fun at the adam sandler jennifer anniston murder mystery sequel….

14. moxie (day 16 pt 2). very good movie for what it is, i think it should be required viewing for all teenage girls. however if you expect it to be really deep and a Perfect representation of feminism… you’re asking too much lmao.

13. the craft (day 3). loved it however i think those girls should have lezzed out wayyyy more also i hated the boyfriend stuff

12. dating amber (day 9). movie made me cry like a little baby so fuck this movie but also yes it was very very good and i WOULD recommend

11. the guernsey literary and potato peel pie society (day 11 pt 2). too many downton abbey actors but it’s pretty good anyway! sad though. however the primary reason i’m ranking it so high is because of how they did the end credits. some movies have a post credits scene, THIS movie has the characters talking and laughing over the credits instead of music it’s so slay seriously watch it it’s so good

10. promising young woman (day 28). well you all were there when i watched this. it was. an experience. some thing i didn’t mention however that i liked was how we never see nina at all but her presence hangs over the entire narrative and informs everything. her seymour slaughterhouse rulez swag. her laura palmer realness

9. palm springs (day 14). it was just cute! and it made me cry. and my buddy was there. can’t divulge more info than that i don’t like to talk about that but. well. always fun to hang with the old pals!

8. cyrano (day 29 pt 2). MASSIVE SLAY. what if there was a movie like 2017 beauty and the beast but it was really actually good and didn’t have an over abundance of cgi. sorry i keep making that comparison it’s just real yk. except that the beast kind of sucks and cyrano would literally never. he’s a feminist

7. not okay (day 12). caroline calloway was in this. the movie about an influencer scammer with depression… also it’s insane

6. crazy rich asians (day 25). yeah i’ve seen this movie before so maybe i shouldn’t have put it in my ranking but i just like it <3 THE movie to watch with your mom this summer! for the 5th year in a row!! god my mom loves this movie, you would not believe…

5. the map of tiny perfect things (day 31). goes so crazy…. like. what if we broke the time loop with love…… holy shit….

4. practical magic (day 2). LOVED the witch movie about men dying!! ty and livvy could do this also. that’s not relevant to the movie being good though. i LOVE you sandra bullock and nicole kidman!!!!

3. freaky (day 1). literally an insane slay. whoever thought of this concept needs their shit sucked so serious. sorry for saying that in that way i just really believe in it… and kathryn slayed… and also, and i didn’t even expect him to, vince vaughn slayed really hard as well…. also i loved the love interest boy soooo much he literally wanted to kiss her so bad he did it WHILE SHE WAS IN THE KILLER’S BODY. ok freak.

2. moonrise kingdom (day 21). i loveddddd this one…. this is the only movie may movie i’ve already started rewatching i just want to hang out with it…. i want to eat this movie like a buttery flaky perfect croissant. i also want to swim in it. it’s complicated. i loved it though <3 also it was soooo emma and jules core

1. the secret of moonacre (day 6). GIRLFANTASY WIN!!!!! this was a perfect film for me… it has EVERYTHING. AND the protagonist has a gay boyfriend. AND it was directed by my close friend gábor csupó. of jess fame…. it’s so good it’s so everything to me. i need to acquire it on dvd immediately but i haven’t yet… i can’t recommend it because if any of you watched it and didn’t feel this passionate about it i would kill myself. but i loved it for me <3

[septembersghost]

I’m curious to watch the upcoming movie about Priscilla because I think it’ll include the retractions/clarifications she’s made about their relationship in recent years. I’m not sure if you read Sofia Coppola’s Vogue interview about the film but based on what she said about it, I think the movie actually might not be as harsh on him as the book was. On IG the lead actress Cailee Spaeny was liking posts about Elvis. Sofia Coppola posted a photo of Elvis on her IG while she was shooting the film. Jacob Elordi even dressed up as Elvis and Priscilla with Kaia Gerber (who is coincidentally dating Austin Butler lol) for Halloween. Now I could be reading too much into this and be totally wrong, but it seems like everyone involved in the project likes Elvis in spite of his flaws. I’ve noticed a lot of Elvis fans are worried the Priscilla movie will be a takedown of Elvis when I don’t think it will be. You already know if it shows Elvis in a positive light at all people are gonna argue Priscilla is in denial and is still a victim of his grooming and manipulation, etc.

part of me is scared to death of this movie because we simply know the discourse is going to be grotesque, and i will not be reading it or will be liberally blocking people if required. 🙃 (all due respect to sofia, "I thought nobody was gonna look quite like Elvis, but Jacob has that same type of magnetism. He’s so charismatic, and girls go crazy around him, so I knew he could pull off playing this type of romantic icon" this is subjective, but girl...what world are you living in...sorry to that man. but! people thought this about austin, though i was excited when he was cast i know i was one of like ten people, and he proved everyone who doubted him wrong! so who can say?)

that said, nothing she expressed in that interview was too worrisome and she's got a very clear focus on priscilla herself, and her perspective. that's a unique way in, in the way baz's film was looking at particular upheaval and change in america with elvis as the lens, here she's speaking about examining a woman coming into her own in this heightened world. the marie antoinette comparison was intriguing. priscilla acting as an exec. producer, too, i feel like if she has any say there at all, it's not going to be some heinous or outlandish depiction. the cast liking him, and hopefully caring about both he and priscilla, and the humanity in that is encouraging too. it'll also be quite different because it's a small, low budget film rather than that sort of vast, dazzling world with baz, and that'll give it its own energy and coverage. like i said, the people who hate elvis and think these erroneous things are never going to have their minds changed and are never going to listen regardless, so they'll pounce on anything they can to posture with outrage about, but if they depict the story with nuance and care, it could help others who don't know as much understand them better, as a love story and as complicated individuals. all we can do is hope for the best!

[ava-of-shenanigans]

POV: you are watching as 2020 Dracula and the Coppola movie slowly breaks my brain

[m0tel6mxzzy]

what i think of u based on ur favorite lisbon sister:

lux: listens to lana del rey, lily rose depp alana champion maude aptow nepotism baby stan, has read every book popular on tiktok, idealizes a version of themselves that’s carefree and content but certain past events are holding you back and lux reminds you of your full potential, has watched marie antoinette 2006 a billion times, constantly rewatched the virgin suicides film to feel something

cecilia: searches “cheap wedding dress/babydoll lace satin dress” hoping to find a dupe similar to cecilia’s, has really pretty journal entries, goes clothes shopping often, actually deep and poetic naturally but won’t share your poems with everyone out of fear no one gets them so you keep them to yourself

mary: watches criminal minds, has read the book over and over, loves and hates sofia coppola for cutting mary’s ending, thinks the movie adaption is mid and that the book is better, wants to undergo a drastic appearance change, dreams of a world where mary recovered from her grief and got better

therese: eldest sibling, hates school but loves science and art otherwise, podcast listener, pretty school notes, eats school lunch alone while studying and finds it peaceful

bonnie: loves movies starring dominique swain such as girl and tart, is really nice, feels left out often but accepts it due to being quiet and timid, has a really complicated relationship with religion but still prays, will watch old black and white movies on loop because it calms you

[blackswaneuroparedux]

Patton and Monty at War: Unbelieving the unbearable rivalry.

Monty is trying to steal the show and with the assistance of Divine Destiny [Eisenhower] he may do so.

- General George S. Patton, on the Sicily Campaign, private diaries 16 July 1943

So every week I play my usual game of chess over a glass of wine with one of my neighbours in my Parisian apartment building. He’s a retired army general but remains active as a military historian and speaker. He’s curmudgeonly but one warms to him quickly as he doesn’t suffer fools gladly. He’s not a fan of women in the military but reluctantly concedes he would make an exception for me (besides who else could he play chess with?). We get on really well now because of the Covid lockdown this past year. We often have long discussions about military history and current politics until the bottle of wine is completely drained.

On one occasion he invited me to watch the 1969 classic war film, Patton, about the life of one of America’s greatest iconic World War Two generals, George S. Patton. It’s been years since I’ve seen it and I almost had forgotten how great the movie is with George C. Scott as Patton and Karl Malden as General Omar Bradley. We watched it in English and then discussed many things that came out of the film.

Hollywood and history usually do not mix. It is quite common for  filmmakers to take a historical subject and to distort it for their purposes and to dumb it down for entertainment purposes. In the case of the movie, Patton, there was no real attempt to distort the story of Patton. It was a fantastic and stirring Hollywood movie. Moreover it was an excellent study in character given Oscar worthy heft by the great George C. Scott as the crusty General George S. Patton. Francis Ford Coppola’s script was severely under-rated.

However there remain glaring inaccuracies such as Patton’s opening speech in the movie - admittedly a an iconic bit of cinema - but even this was based on his statements and captured the character of  the man, something even acknowledged by the Generals’ family.

Much  of the details of his role in the defeat of Germany are true. The only real omission was the lack of focus on Patton’s Lorraine Campaign, where he distinguished himself. There are some exaggerations in the movie and some minor distortions such as in the weather-prayer scene. In general,  the movie managed to produce a great overview portrayal of the  character and career of an extraordinary American leader.

The film does accurately relate the leading role played by Patton in the  liberation of Sicily. His daring use of armour was crucial in the defeat of the German army on the island.

However long after the film had ended I did think about one thing that irked me. And this was how the movie seemed to linger on the belief Patton was motivated by the desire to do better than General Montgomery, the victor  at El Alamein. Indeed the film probably reinforced the accepted conventional wisdom that these two driven and ambitious men hated each other.

There was a great personal rivalry between the two men.  They were both driven and wildly ambitious. The movie suggests that the rivalry between Montgomery and Patton was the main feature of the Sicilian Allied campaign and was perhaps a factor in why it ended so quickly with a  decisive Allied victory.

The rivalry was not as intense as the motion  picture suggests and the two men worked together when needed for the  good of the Allied cause.

Born two years apart, both were commissioned within a year of each other  and both were wounded in France in the First World War. Both men  encompassed very different but very valuable characteristics in combat:  Monty-careful and meticulous, Patton-dashing and diplomatic.   Despite  the differences, both generals demonstrated striking similarities:  commitment to their careers, a ruthless egotism, interesting when you  consider neither held superior command. This did not impede their desire  for the limelight and fame in warfare, arrogance and the manipulation  of colleagues in high places to advance their careers.  Both were  machiavellian in their own affairs and self-interested in their own  personal progression.

The great rivalries amongst the Allies that made a real imact were Marshall and Brooke over war policy, Nimitz and MacArthur over resources, Eisenhower and Montgomery over strategy; and then between Percival and MacArthur for incompetence,  Patton and O'Connor for aggressiveness, MacArthur and Clarke for vainglory,  (and possibly  Clarke and Wavell for the stupidity of letting defeated enemies escape),  were the issues that defined the war for the Western allies.

The idea  that a competition between Patton and Montgomery was more important is cute, but naive. I am not even sure where the idea comes from. 

Much is made of the bet between Patton and Montgomery over reaching Palermo in Sicily first, but in practical terms that was the only time in the war that Patton ever appeared on Montgomery's radar.

For the rest  of the war Monty was so much higher up the food chain than Patton that  he was unaware, or disinterested in Patton's opinions. Montgomery  was, by 1944, an experienced general who very successfully fought extensively in both combat and staff roles for 4 years throughout World  War One. (Patton got a combat command for a few weeks when the Germans  were already collapsing.) Montgomery led a division very successfully  through the Battle of France, and a corps through the crucial Battle of  Britain training and rebuilding years. He led an army in combat for two  years, through many successful battles both on defense and in attack.

By  1944 Patton had led a corps for a few months, and an army for a few weeks. For the very brief period of the Sicily compaign they were  theoretically equals in command, but probably only in Patton's mind. Montgomery saw Patton as an enthusiastic if amateurish old man but respected his aggressive boldness. Montgomery saw his HQ 'betting book' as a bit of fun (and was delighted when bet a  B17 by someone who should have known better).

When he and Patton met  and co-ordinated the Sicilian campaign Alexander seemed not interested in co-ordinating, Monty saw Palermo as a similar bit of fun to pursue, no bigger or smaller than the hundreds of other bets in the book.

Patton saw it, as he saw anything relating to his persona, as the most vitally important challenge of his whole life...up until the next one.  Montgomery lost a bet and moved on to the next challenge. Patton won but  didn't. (Or at least that is what bad writers have tried to suggest. I  think he moved straight on to the next challenge anyway.)

That  was the last time Monty and Patton were in direct competition, no matter what revisionists or romantics would say.

The next time Patton was  allowed in the field he was one of half a dozen army commanders in  Monty's Normandy army group, and, familiarly, he did not arrive until  the Germans in Normandy were already collapsing. Very soon afterwards Eisenhower split off Bradley's army group, and Monty had no control, nor much interest, in what Patton was up to thereafter.

The  romantics like to suggest that thereafter Monty railed against Patton's supplies, and that Patton railed against Montgomery's caution. The truth is less foolish for both of them. In fact Montgomery railed  against Eisenhower's broad front strategy regardless of which of the  other sub-commanders was benifitting (to the point of Montgomery making  an offer to serve under Bradley as long as someone got single control to  pursue a single strategy). He railed against the diversion of resources  anywhere not at the main point where a thrust might have achieved early  victory.

Leaving aside whether that victory could have happened,  Montgomery's beef was with Eisenhower first, his appalling chief of supply Lee second, fellow Army Group Commanders who couldn't control the excesses of their subordinates like Bradley (and to a lesser extent) Devers third, and only then with the several army commanders who each tried to do their own thing.

In practical terms Montgomery seemed more appalled by the negative effects of the incompetence of Hodges (1st US Army,) and  the obnoxiousness of General De Gaulle's orders to 'his' army (French First Army), and perhaps even  the ineffectiveness of his own subordinate Crerar  (Canadian 1st army) , than he did by Patton's enthusiasms. There is  hardly a mention of Patton in his diaries through this period, compared  to several comments on Bradley and De Gualle, and endless ones on  Eisenhower.

Patton too is being maligned by the pretense that his  war was taken up with a vain competition with Montgomery. Patton, like  Montgomery, was totally concerned with the main issue of defeating  Germany. But unlike Montgomery, he did not have Brooke  -  the Chief of Imperial General Staff - to rely on for support against  Eisenhower's broad front strategy.

Patton too was convinced that this was the wrong way to go, but to get his version of a thrust (with him at  the front) happening, he had to be a bit more manipulative than Montgomery.

Every word Patton used to wheedle and manipulate  support, or at least a blind eye to what he was doing, was designed to  get more resources from his superiors. Indeed, if he couldn't get them from Eisenhower, he was willing to steal them wherever he could, and  then get Bradley to pretend to not know what he was doing. In this he was quite willing to encourage Bradley's inferiority complex in relation  to Montgomery, and to happily manipulate Bradley into tantrums to get  what they both wanted, but it seems likely that Patton was more  interested in getting his way by making his superiors compete with  Montgomery, than in competing with Montgomery himself.

Patton is  actually a more complex and clever character than the romantics give him credit for. His 'kill them even if they try to surrender' speeches in  Sicily were part of his stage management of troops, not part of his innate personality. HIs 'us against the world' propaganda was more  manipulative, not so much like Bradley's inferiority complex. He wanted to win, and he would use anything to get what he needed to win, even  ramping up his superiors to distrust their allies. But his genuine competitiveness with Montgomery at this stage was less about him and Montgomery, and more about him and how he could maneouvre others to  support him. He would have shown the same level of competitiveness, and  the same willingness to undermine, any competitor at this point, British, French, Russian or even American.

Montgomery on the  other hand only saw Patton as one more junior general syphoning supplies  from an inadequate source. Montgomery was in competition with  Eisenhower for control, and possibly with Bradley for resources. Minor  army commanders in other people's army groups only registered on his horizon if he could get their armies assigned to his army group.

Just for amusement, it might be fun to consider how Montgomery and Patton might have worked together?

Montgomery was notoriously superb to serve under, no matter what your nationality.  British, Australian, New Zealander, South African, Indian, Canadian, French, Polish, and American troops who served under him  were all very happy to do so. So were their generals. Bradley certainly learned more  about being a field commander from a few months of Montgomery's distant mentoring than from anything Eisenhower ever did for him in their much closer relationship.

There is no doubt that Montgomery preferred effective subordinates to ineffective ones, and it seems possible that Patton would have made a preferable subordinate to Crerar or Bradley in his mind.

As for Patton, he would have served anyone who got him what he wanted. Had Montgomery offered him the chance to spearhead the attack into Germany, there is virtually no doubt that Patton would have  jumped at the chance.

Patton was not the racist that Bradley or Eisenhower were, and was happy to have black troops. He was not the American supremacist that Roosevelt or MacArthur were, and worked well with others (as long as they let him have enough lime light).

Had Montgomery been left as land forces commander, there is little doubt that he would have used Patton's aggression in a way that would have  made Patton much happier than Eisenhower's broad front strategy ever allowed.

It is fun to imagine Montgomery as land forces commander using Patton's 3rd Army in conjunction with British 2nd to leapfrog ahead at top speed into Germany. The best British tactics were never the  broad front strategy that the worst American's like Marshall and Eisenhower fancied. They were always the 'hold the enemy, crumble the  enemy, breakthrough the enemy, and pursue with as much force as fast and  far as possible' skills that had worked since the development of  mechanised warfare in 1918. (As demonstrated by the Germans in Poland  and France and Russia, the British and Germans in North Africa, the  Japanese and British in Asia, and the Russians in Eastern Europe.)

Montgomery would have used his traditional two corps up, one back, one resting deployment, adapted to armies, to keep up the momentum. Patton's preferred tactics were almost exactly the same, and he and his 3rd  Army would have fit it like a glove into Montgomery's thrust strategy.

Personally  I think that the limited reality behind their competitiveness paid trumps in Sicily, and I wish that it had been repeated in France. Patton could not have been a worse Army group commander than Bradley was, and would almost certainly have been better.

It is amusing to think of Patton and Montgomery effectively conspiring to destroy the broad front strategy while they got on with winning the war in the best spirit of competition. Although I have a sneaking suspicion that one of Patton's biographers was right to suggest that by 1945 he had suffered a few too many hits on the head, there is little doubt that he would have been almost as valuable to the Allied cause in Bradley's place against Eisenhower's policies directly, as he would have under Montgomery's army  group. That might have been a useful version of rivalry.

[thealogie]

do you have any favourite lawyer movies?

Oh boy do I. These are in no particular order.

-my cousin vinny: this is widely considered by lawyers as THE lawyer movie of all time. If physical DVDs/VHS were still a thing I think they would make lawyers swear into the bar on one of these. I honestly hadn’t seen it years. Admitting to this in a room full of lawyers was honestly received worse than admitting to murder. I did rewatch it this year and it is funny, smart, sexy, sleazy, ballsy af and deserving of its status as the best

-the rainmaker: a young Matt Damon takes on big insurance companies while also playing “I will protect you” boyfriend to Claire Danes. Based on a book by john Grisham but Francis Ford Coppola directs it?? Danny Devito is there as a fun kind of scammy paralegal. Matt Damon has just passed the bar but he has some epic wins over big law/big insurance. All around heady combo.

-Erin Brockovich: Another one of those: classic for a reason.

-the conspirator: is this actually a good movie or does it just star robin wright as a woman who stands accused of being involved in the conspiracy to murder Lincoln and james mcavoy is her lawyer? Yes.

-the informant: good fun whistleblower action against big tobacco

-legally blonde: taught a whole generation about mens rea. again: classic for a reason. happy people don’t kill their husbands, they just don’t

-Phil Spector: ok this is like...perhaps one of my favorites in terms of actual depictions of law and lawyering on film (whereas some of the others on the list are better movies but aren’t really concerned with the law). Al Pacino is Phil Spector on trial for murder, Helen Mirren is the top shelf attorney who starts representing him somewhat reluctantly but gets really into it....David Mamet writes and directs. Critics everywhere booed this movie but that just goes to show they hate a movie about real lawyering which is fair

-Kramer v Kramer: again doesn’t need explanation. It’s a classic that holds up. It’s good and good for you.

-Amistad: truly incredible story of captured enslaved Africans who mutineed against the Spanish crew enslaving them and freed themselves only to land in the US and involved in a court case where they had to argue against being Spanish property. Does the movie focus a bit too much on the white people representing them in court? You bet. But it’s still pretty well done and worth a watch

[forthegothicheroine]

american psycho, the company of wolves, beauty and the beast (og disney), beauty and the beast (disney remake), tim burton's sleepy hollow, the over the garden wall miniseries, disney's legend of sleepy hollow (lmao i want it to be fall so bad), sofia coppola's marie antoinette, sofia coppola's the beguiled, the innocents, fire walk with me, crimson peak, coppocula

Hoo boy! Stuffing this big series of answers below the cut.

American Psycho:

never seen | want to see | the worst | bad | whatever | not my thing | good | great | favorite | masterpiece

Love it! I don't think the book would do it for me (I don't do well with graphic torture) but I thought the movie did a good job of showing us the kind of things he was doing, while also leaving enough ambiguity even before the twist at the end, and letting us sympathize with his depression (even if he can't name it) while also making him deeply unpleasant.

The Company of Wolves:

never seen | want to see | the worst | bad | whatever | not my thing | good | great | favorite | masterpiece

Do I like it as a big feminist statement? Honestly, not really- there's no sympathy for any women who aren't Rosalie or maybe her mother, and I think we are supposed to be conflicted over whether the choice she makes at the end is the right one. Do I like it as an exploration of an adolescent female id? Absolutely. Sex and violence and terror and quests are all on her mind and are all equally awful and thrilling, and Rosalie wants what's bad for her and isn't sure it's actually bad for her and the balance of power is always see-sawing and the whole thing feels like the most amazing dream.

Beauty and the Beast (original):

never seen | want to see | the worst | bad | whatever | not my thing | good | great | favorite | masterpiece

I thought the Beast was too mean when I was a little kid and forming my Disney opinions- I might actually like it more now. This is probably why I like the Cocteau version, even though what he does is basically still just as bad, because at least he's not a dick about it (and Panna a nevtor, which plays it all for gothic horror.)

Sleepy Hollow:

never seen | want to see | the worst | bad | whatever | not my thing | good | great | favorite | masterpiece

In retrospect, this one shows a lot of the problems that would later kill my love for Tim Burton, but it's still a lot of fun. The Hessian is genuinely scary, Johnny Depp is mugging a bit but it's not as bad as it would eventually get, and I want all the dresses.

Over the Garden Wall:

never seen | want to see | the worst | bad | whatever | not my thing | good | great | favorite | masterpiece

Pure distilled autumn in its aspects of both harvest and death, fun and fear. It's a world based on vintage Halloween postcards and fairytales that don't actually exist but feel like they do. I love every character, and that momentary flash where we see what the Beast looks like haunts my nightmares. My only caveat is that I do sometimes have to tell other people to keep watching after Schoolyard Follies, there will be a plot I promise!

Disney's Legend of Sleepy Hollow:

never seen | want to see | the worst | bad | whatever | not my thing | good | great | favorite | masterpiece

I think this is one of those where I never saw the whole thing, just the main song on one of those Best of Disney compilation videos. I'll at least give it credit for preserving the original story rather than making the Headless Horseman actually real (which I think most adaptations do because frankly the original story isn't long enough for feature length.)

Marie Antoinette:

never seen | want to see | the worst | bad | whatever | not my thing | good | great | favorite | masterpiece

This seems like one of those movies where you've supposed to get into the mood of the music and the visuals more so than the plot or characters? I can get into that.

The Beguiled:

never seen | want to see | the worst | bad | whatever | not my thing | good | great | favorite | masterpiece

I still don't know if I want to see this or not! The concept sounds cool and creepy, but I don't like the idea that these ladies are the good guys. Or maybe I'm wrong and nobody's supposed to be a good guy? Or maybe I should watch the grimier original since I unfortunately find young Clint Eastwood hot?

The Innocents:

never seen | want to see | the worst | bad | whatever | not my thing | good | great | favorite | masterpiece

I'm personally of the opinion that the ghosts in The Turn of the Screw were real (it's just that screaming at a child is not a good way to exorcise them), but the deliberate ambiguity/unreliability of this version is also creepy in its own way. It's a much darker ghost story that you'd get from most big studio films of the time, certainly.

Fire Walk With Me:

never seen | want to see | the worst | bad | whatever | not my thing | good | great | favorite | masterpiece

This really did a good job of portraying its protagonist as a real person rather than just an object of clinical observation or perverse whimsy (which I think Twin Peaks the Return fell into.) It's just so heartbreakingly sensitive and Sheryl Lee does such a good job of portraying Laura as both kind and mean, loving and hateful, and absolutely the victim of someone she should have been able to trust. And then the end, where Cooper is smiling gently at her and the angel has come back and she's laughing in relief? Oh my god.

Crimson Peak

never seen | want to see | the worst | bad | whatever | not my thing | good | great | favorite | masterpiece

I didn't love this as much as I thought I would (maybe because I was spoiled about what was up with the Sharpes, or maybe because I didn't like the implication that Edith should have gone with the nice boy best friend she didn't love) but I'd still say it's a good entry in the gothic romance genre. Stunning clothes and scenery, great actors, scary ghosts, an ending open enough for fanfiction. If I picked this up as an Avon Satanic Gothic at a thrift store, I'd definitely be happy!

Coppocula (Bram Stoker's Dracula)

never seen | want to see | the worst | bad | whatever | not my thing | good | great | favorite | masterpiece

Oof. I don't want to be a snob about this. I've definitely liked Dracula movies that were wackier or dumber than this (looking at you, 2004 BBC version!) This one just breaks my heart because there's so much talent on display and I just. fucking. hate it! That soundtrack deserved a better movie. That red dress deserved a better movie. All the characters deserved better writing. Whenever someone tells me they love this movie, I have to nod and say that it's certainly beautiful looking, because I don't want to be a terrible gatekeeper, and if it was an original vampire story it might well be a guilty pleasure of mine. I just fucking hate it. On the bright side, it did give us Vlad the Poker in the What We Do in the Shadows movie, a pitch-fucking-perfect parody of Gary Oldman's Dracula, and the Nadja/Gregor plot in the What We Do in the Shadows tv show, a pitch-fucking-perfect deconstruction of the reincarnated wife trope.

[chthonic-cassandra]

Hello! I'm trying to make a list of dracula adaptations to watch, and I was wondering, which ones are your faves? Are there any you'd advise not to waste my time on? Thanks!

Oh, this is the best ask, thank you! I love talking about this.

I always say that these are the five Dracula movies which will give you the clearest sense of the arc of adaptation the story has taken over time:

Nosferatu (dir. F.W. Murnau, 1922)

Dracula (dir. Tod Browning, 1931)

Dracula/Horror of Dracula (dir. Terrence Fisher, 1958)

Dracula (dir. John Badham, 1979)

Bram Stoker’s Dracula (dir. Francis Ford Coppola, 1992)

However, this is not the same as a list of my favorites! I think that all of those are pretty essential viewing for a comprehensive understanding of the world of Dracula adaptations, even though I virulently hate the Coppola, and would happily bestow on you all the permission needed not to waste your time on it, despite it being tremendously influential.

My alternative list of weird personal favorite Dracula adaptations aside from the above (Murnau and likely Badham’s films would make their way onto a comprehensive list of my favorites) would be the following:

Nosferatu (dir. Werner Herzog, 1979) - my first Dracula, my favorite Dracula, and also my favorite film period. Watch it watch it watch it.

Drácula (dir. George Melford, 1932) - made on the same sets as the Browning film, with Spanish-speaking actors who came in and filmed after the cast of the English version were done, this film as a fascinating comparison to the iconic Browning/Lugosi film, and better done in almost every way, solving many of the English version’s plot holes.

Count Dracula (Jesús Franco, 1970) - Franco was a Spanish B movie director who made tremendously trashy films but also made some inspired casting choices. He lured Christopher Lee into playing Dracula again for this by promising him the chance to actually say some of the speeches from the books (Hammer films never let him do this), and somehow also got Klaus Kinski to play a visionary wordless Renfield. The movie itself is a mess, but how can you care?

Dracula (dir. Bill Eagles, 2006) - this is a very odd BBC film that changes the plot around dramatically but somehow still retains the essence of many the characters, who are charmingly cast, especially Lucy, Mina, and Jack. It’s weakened by a really badly played Dracula, but is a lot of fun for fans of the book.

If you want to go into the depths of the weirdness, I recommend you try:

Blood for Dracula (dir. Paul Morissey, 1974) - this Warhol-influenced oddity is impossible to truly describe; it’s full of strangely placed (but sometimes intensely hilarious) humor, very graphic sex scenes, and just...strangeness. Warning that there are some very weird and rather tasteless sexual assault scenes, but if you’re up for the weirdness, it is not to be missed.

Dracula: Pages from a Virgin’s Diary (dir. Guy Maddin, 2002) - this is the silent film ballet Dracula. It doesn’t always work, but it is certainly going for something.

I have not yet managed to see Dracula in Istanbul or this apparently crazy Czech film called Jonathan (in which, according to my reading, the vampires are a metaphor for capitalism), so cannot speak to those.

As for what can be skipped...you will miss out on very little if you skip Van Helsing, Dracula 2000, Dracula Untold (which is not even really a Dracula adaptation proper), or the newest BBC Dracula. 

I admit to getting the 1968 Mystery and Imagination Dracula, the 1974 Dan Curtis/Jack Palance Dracula, and the 1977 Louis Jourdan Dracula confused at times, but there is good reason for that; none of them is especially exciting or original, though each do have their good moment (and their fans, who I hope I am not too sorely offending here!). If you are choosing one of those three, I would go with the 1977; Louis Jourdan gives an interestingly understated performance, and they have some interesting Renfield-Mina interaction that other versions don’t have.

Once you watch The Horror of Dracula, you’ll have a sense of whether or not you like the Hammer film style, and you should know from there whether you want to watch the rest of them. 

Have fun!

[tentpoletrauma]

Transcript of our Wolfman 2010 Podcast

Unknown Speaker  0:12   Welcome to Tentpole Trauma, the podcast where we look at movies that came with hype and high hopes, but left with crushing disappoint either critically at the box office are both. Free from the weight of expectations, we seek to examine these underperformers under a new light parsing through the good, the bad and everything in between the hopes of gaining a better understanding as to why they failed to find their audience.

Unknown Speaker  0:43   Warning, there will be spoilers. So if you haven't seen the movie that we're discussing today, I suggest you stop the podcast and go watch it. Then when you come back and listen, you'll get more out of the discussion. This episode we examine the 2010 remake of The Wolf Man.

Unknown Speaker  1:23   I've been a universal horror fan for as long as I can remember. So I was pretty excited back in 2010 when the Wolf Man remake got rooms I've been following the production I knew Benicio del Toro was playing the Wolf Man, which I thought was great. I knew the original director left and was replaced with Joe Johnston, who I liked but didn't think was that inspired of a choice. But still, I was really excited to see it even after numerous delays. The first signs of real trouble were the extremely tepid reviews and tepid is a kind descriptor, but I maintained my enthusiasm and on opening weekend dragged my pointedly disinterested girlfriend to see it. The movie started promisingly enough with a pretty cool werewolf attack. But as the stilted drama set in, I could feel the audience snickering and turning against the movie. And more importantly, I could feel my girlfriend turning against me for dragging her to see this thing. We didn't last much longer. Still, over the years, I've maintained a certain affection for the film, even buying it on blu ray to have it as a, as I call put on in the background kind of movie, something that's visually pleasing that you can just look at not really pay attention to it. Over the years, I've even tried to get friends and family to watch it with me and perhaps reevaluate the film. But usually I'm just met with a healthy serving of side eye and skepticism. So am I insane for liking this maligned movie? I guess that's a question we'll have to address today as we deep dive into the 2010 remake of the wolf, man.

Unknown Speaker  3:19   All right, this is Sebastian, and I'm here today with Jennifer Hello, and Chris.

Unknown Speaker  3:25   Hey, how's it going?

Unknown Speaker  3:26   And we're gonna be talking about the Wolf Man remake from 2010. Directed by Joe Johnston, who did Captain America The Winter Soldier, and he did the Rocketeer and Jurassic Park three, and written by Andrew Kevin Walker, who wrote seven and some other stuff. So you know, there's kind of a pedigree there. I already in my intro talked about my experience with this film. Jennifer, do you have any previous experience with this film?

Unknown Speaker  3:57   Yes, I do. My first exposure to this film was through you insisting that I watched this film, I think it was probably around 2012 or 2013. Does that sound right?

Unknown Speaker  4:10   It sounds right.

Unknown Speaker  4:10   Yeah. And I remember just not really, not really getting that into it. I was just kind of I wasn't, I didn't hate it by any means. But I just was kind of like, okay, that's, it's that was fine. But then watching it for the podcast. I had a different experience this time, which we'll go into also watching, both theatrical and the unrated version made a big difference. So But yeah, I did not see it in the theater. I it's not really I'm a horror person but, and I like universal monsters. The creatures more my guy, but I'm not you know, not super

Unknown Speaker  4:58   Wolfie Okay, Chris.

Unknown Speaker  5:01   Um, yeah, so my experience with Wolf Man was, I saw Dracula in high school loved it thought it was great. I thought it was like a great goth movie that everybody seemed to be into. And goth was a big thing. And then Frankenstein came out, which was, I guess, and unofficial sequel to that it still had the same vibe had a good director and a bunch of golf production design. And that was not

Unknown Speaker  5:32   just to be clear, we're talking about the Coppola Dracula and the Kenneth brown a Frankenstein.

Unknown Speaker  5:37   Exactly. And so I was kind of following that thread. Because I love Dracula, even though I it's flawed. And then Frankenstein came out, which I didn't love as much, but it was still a good time. And then Wolf Man came out. And I believe it was touted as like the third of a trilogy of, you know, the same type of pedigree we're gonna make, we're gonna give this treatment to these three monsters. And I believe, I don't know why I didn't see it at the time that it came out. Maybe because the reviews were bad or I was busy or something like that. But it took until now that Sebastian was doing this podcast that I was like, Oh, I guess it's time to watch it. And, and I've seen it for the first time.

Unknown Speaker  6:22   All right. Well, before we get into your feelings on the movie, let's just kind of dig in. This movie had a troubled production. It was originally going to be directed by Mark Romanek, who's a pretty cool director. Yeah, one one hour photo. Mm hmm. And

Unknown Speaker  6:38   lots of great music videos, too.

Unknown Speaker  6:41   That's right. And I was working at cinephile at the time and Benny not to name drop but Benicio del Toro would come in. And he was a huge Wolf Man fan. And he was really excited that he was going to get to play the Wolf Man. And I'm a huge Wolf Man fan. I love the 1940s original, so I was excited for him to play it. But it took a long time for the movie to come out. Because there were just you know, Mark Romanek, ended up leaving at the last minute, and there were like delays, Joe Johnson took over and had to just work with whatever they had. And you know, then it ended up with the release ended up being delayed, for whatever reason, so it ended up like taking two years for you to come out. But that's a little background on the movie. So let's just get into it. It starts with the universal logo. So this is definitely they're setting it up that this is a universal monster movie. In the the theatrical version. Yeah, it's cool. And the theatrical version. It's pretty easy. It's just black and white, but in the unrated version, you get a sort of more old school like 1940s universal logo.

Unknown Speaker  7:51   Yeah, I love that. It's really up. It's updated, but feels old school and it's like, it's really the right way to go iPod.

Unknown Speaker  7:58   Yeah, it sets the tone. I don't know if they intended this to be the first of the quote unquote, dark universe that they were trying to do. A few years back, they would keep saying, you know, they, they I think they set it with this movie. Then they set it with Dracula Untold. Then they set it with the Tom Cruise mummy. They were really hoping to do a marvel universe of universal monsters, which I would have been game for. But they

Unknown Speaker  8:23   shouldn't that should have been the tagline.

Unknown Speaker  8:27   But they couldn't seem to get that going. Anyway. So this isn't really the beginning of the dark universe because there is no dark universe. It starts off with some Danny Elfman music, which reminded me a lot of the 1979 Dracula that came out in the disco era with Franklin gela Mm hmm. It really borrows some themes. for that.

Unknown Speaker  8:48   To me the score just sound doesn't sound like Danny Elfman at all it very it to me, it just sounds like they're ripping off the score of the Coppola Dracula, you know, with that sort of luxurious string arrangements. And it's a strange like, I remember thinking like didn't then I think he is he a Czech composer for the Coppola Dracula, and he had died. So I was like, who composes because it sounds exactly like him. So and I was shocked to see that it was Danny Elfman because it doesn't sound like his trademark, you know, score at all.

Unknown Speaker  9:22   It doesn't sound like a kooky circus.

Unknown Speaker  9:26   Not at all.

Unknown Speaker  9:27   No, I think he was intentionally trying to evoke that apparently, he was originally hired to do the score. And then they tried to go with another score, I think and then they went back to his score. Anyway, it just sort of typical of the sort of troubled production of this, this movie. And anyway, moving on, it opens with the quote from the original the, you know, man becomes a wolf when the wolf Bane bloons that's straight from the original and it's pretty stylish in a sort of computer generated way. Yeah which is a which is a thing I think this movie it can either be a plus or a minus to you like it's very you know they're going for that really God thing but it's pretty computer CG golf.

Unknown Speaker  10:14   Yeah, agreed 100% I think

Unknown Speaker  10:17   that's the problem. That's what that's something that makes the Bram Stoker Dracula standout is that they went with a lot of old school visual effects and just you know, the feel of the whole thing was purposely sort of antique whereas this the production design works but the filmmaking techniques are very modern and in their hidden Miss You know, sometimes they work and then sometimes you see Oh, that's just a Morph cut that just, they just put in there because they could.

Unknown Speaker  10:46   Okay, so we get the opening attack, which is, you know, we later find out is Larry Talbots. I'm gonna call him Larry just because I think that's funny. Larry Talbots brother getting attacked on the Moore's there's sort of a voiceover from Emily Blunt, which didn't feel added anything to it really. And you know, we get this whole attack, which is pretty cool, but I feel like it It feels very rushed.

Unknown Speaker  11:13   The whole beginning feels rushed. Like, well, the voiceover from Emily Blunt in the theatrical version is she's writing a letter to Larry. Right. Yeah. So she's and you know, we're getting this this backstory. And that was, like the beginning. I just felt like, Is it me? I don't know what, what just happened? What is going on here? Like is it just it felt it feels like we just, it zooms by and not in a good way. Just wait way too much too fast. And it just feels like it's just kind of thrown together. And that Yeah, I was completely just baffled at that some of the things that were going on,

Unknown Speaker  11:56   well, in the unrated cut, you get a little more of the attack, and we get this whole scene of Larry acting. He's supposedly on stage in London, he's performing Hamlet or something. And Gwen does not write a letter to him in this version, she actually comes to the theater and he's backstage and he sort of got a cool bathrobe on he sort of rock starring out and she floors him to come check because I think his brother is missing at that point. But he sort of puts her off but she kind of gives him a guilt trip. I felt like compared to the theatrical version, where all you get is this voiceover from Emily Blunt. And you're suddenly right at the right at Blackmore Manor, I felt like the unrated version was an improvement.

Unknown Speaker  12:49   Yeah, I see, having watched both of them, I definitely can see how the pendulum swung hard both ways. You know, like, the Extended Cut is way too long. There's way too much intro, you know, it'll take like half an hour before like that Gypsy attack happens. So I understand why they cut a lot of that stuff, because it's just needless exposition. But now hearing Jen's reaction to it, I think, you know, they obviously cut maybe too much, because they're, they're really just, you know, trying to keep it tight and compress everything so that it gets going. But I will say having watched the Extended Cut that man, it's kind of a slog and a drag to, to get to where the movies going,

Unknown Speaker  13:30   you're sort of coming at it from the opposite end of Gen where you felt like the extended was taking too long.

Unknown Speaker  13:35   Definitely. And in you saying that it's a troubled production and that the you know, the director got swapped out at the last minute totally makes sense, because this feels very, you know, made by committee where nobody had a strong vision. And they were like, Okay, well, it's too long. Well, now let's make it too short or whatever. And, you know, no one actually said I understand the story. We're gonna make this happen. This is you know exactly what it's gonna be like, it definitely feels that way where there's not a strong vision hand at the helm.

Unknown Speaker  14:06   I wouldn't want more. This was like, in this case, it just for me, I was like, I felt so much more like, Oh, this is what they're doing. Because I remember even being like, is Larry an actor? like is that what he was doing? Because it's like literally like just like a quick flash of him on the stage or something. And I'm like, wait, and setting up also with Emily Blunt. Like, because throughout the film, I was like, Okay, I know she's supposed to be you know, it's complicated, but she's, you know, supposed to be kind of a love interest. And I just wasn't really feeling it. But then with this at the beginning with her coming there, there was this more to their relationship, and I actually was more invested, so to speak, but yeah, so anyway, the the unrated worked worked for me, especially in the beginning.

Unknown Speaker  14:51   I wouldn't say that in any version, their relationship is is a strong point of the movie, but in the theatrical cut, you get nothing zero, you're like, I don't care at all, at least in the unrated cut you you have some reason to care. They've had some scenes that are meaningful. Yeah, in the in the theatrical, there's nothing.

Unknown Speaker  15:15   Um, well, this is just kind of a general note on just about the action and how the wolf, you know, plays out in his attacks. Like, it's something, there's movies like Jurassic Park, or, you know, other werewolf movies, which gives you that sense of, you know, a wild animal attack. And, you know, if you've ever been around, like, you know, an angry dog or anything like that, you get that sense, where it's like, oh, my God, like anything can happen. But when he attacks it, it feels more like a bus hit. And then an animal attack, you know, because he just comes in out of nowhere and just slams. It's like, half jumpscare, half bus hit. And it just, I don't know, I just feel like it doesn't, it doesn't work. It's not a unique way of, you know, having him attack and it just doesn't feel scary to me.

Unknown Speaker  16:02   It feels more like a superhero thing. Yeah. And I feel and I think that a lot of this movie has that kind of feel where it's almost more of a superhero movie, even though the superheroes, you know, killing people. It just has a more modern superhero vibe to it in a weird way. If that makes any sense.

Unknown Speaker  16:21   Absolutely. This is relates to a point that I have with just the story in general that I feel like they set up a lot of things that never pay off. Like, why haven't be an actor, why, you know, have the meet backstage at the beginning. It's just, there's, there's so many weird threads in this story that just don't seem to pay off. And, and I feel like I feel the story being stretched. And like we were saying, the right amount of information is somewhere in the middle between the theatrical and Extended Cut. But there's just so many ideas in this story that never pay off that they were trying to, like, give love to some and then not enough for the others. It's just kind of a mess. I think

Unknown Speaker  17:07   with the him being an actor, I totally know. There's definitely things I agree with you Chris that never come to fruition, but I feel like part of the him being an actor is like they're trying to paint this picture also, which I think again, is more represented in the unrated version, is that he is such an outsider to the town, as at this point, like he's totally like a fish out of water. Like, you know, and I think like even at one point Anthony Hopkins is this you know, kind of says something along the lines of like, oh, coming back to the you know, small town or something along the lines of that, you know, so I think they're trying to make him like just as uncomfortable they're like not wanted there you know, even without even before all the other stuff happens that that's I mean, but yes, there's so many things that are set up the door really pay off but that's that's all I could gather from from going into his acting career.

Unknown Speaker  18:02   Maybe it's also to say that his Mid Atlantic accent is because he's an actor and has been away for so long. That's right. Oh, he's in New York. That's where he picked up this weird accent. Like, I also

Unknown Speaker  18:12   think that's what it how it was in the original, which didn't really play into anything in the original film either. But I think they just that's why because that's the character gotcha as as known from the 1940s film, you know, in the unrated cut, we get a scene on a train with the great Max von seido like why do you cut Max von side obviously, Larry is looking at a picture of his mom and then Max von seido sitting across from him and Max von seido. Has this silver wolf cane, which to your point Chris doesn't end up paying out in any real way in the movie. And it's only in there and I think this might be the the overall answers your question as to why things don't pay out and why they're in there is because in the 1940s movie, he's the Wolf Man is killed by his father with a wolf head cane just like that. Okay, so it's

Unknown Speaker  19:13   a setup without payoff as like a twist to the old be the people who knew Okay,

Unknown Speaker  19:20   yeah, the cane is not the strongest point of this movie. Okay, so we get to Blackmore Manor, which is the Talbot estate, we find out at that point that his brother's dead. You know, I think the production value whatever you feel about this movie, I think the production value is pretty great. All the locations are really cool. I love the look of the manor. It looks like a you know, kind of like a rundown Downton Abbey. Yes. With lots of leaves in the interior and my squeaking, lots of squeaking. We get Anthony Hopkins and he's you know he's doing you're pretty much like standard late period Anthony Hopkins performance. But it's one of those cases where he's Anthony Hopkins and he, he's totally watchable. It's you know, it's he's not doing anything. He seems kind of half asleep in a way. And he's not doing anything spectacular, but he's just great because he's Anthony Hopkins.

Unknown Speaker  20:16   totally true. Totally agree. Yes. I just Yeah, he's just kind of being creepy and just yeah, doing doing his thing. And it's a great I think opening scene to having him come in there looked up. Definitely rundown Downton Abbey. Lots of spider webs just kind of in disarray. But yeah, it's that I was happy, happy just to spend some time with with Anthony.

Unknown Speaker  20:42   You know, Anthony Hopkins at 50% is still better than most people's on 100% Absolutely.

Unknown Speaker  20:48   Yes. Yeah, the productions that design is definitely stellar. I mean, it's got that golf feel and it's definitely the I think the best thing about it, you know, I mean, the cinematography as well with the high contrast lighting and the smoke everywhere, everything looks right. You know, they they definitely spent the right amount of money and, and have the right fuel going. It's the other stuff. It's the story and the acting that to me don't work. And Anthony Hopkins can do no wrong. Of course, he's definitely phoning it in and like you said it, his phoning it in is already better than most people's full throttle. But can we talk about Benicio for a second? Like I feel like he is not giving me much of anything. And I'm also trying to think of what other lead roles he's had where he's knocked it out of the park. Like he's always great as the crazy sidekick. And I think maybe he's not capable of pulling off the lead in a movie like this where there's not a lot to Larry. I mean, he's just this mopey guy. He's supposed to be an actor, but like, I feel like I get nothing from his character.

Unknown Speaker  21:53   He's definitely trying to, I believe, especially with his haircut and everything, which is not terribly flattering on him. He's got a sort of like almost bowl cut,

Unknown Speaker  22:04   like a Caesar cut. Yeah, that was was that the style at the time? Was that cool?

Unknown Speaker  22:08   Or it was? I don't think so. He looks a little puffy. And he's kind of looks a little overweight. So I think he was trying to actually invoke Alon Chani Jr, who played the Wolf Man in the original. I mean, he was a huge, huge fan of that movie. But I also think he might be a little checked out because I think he was very supportive of Mark Romanek. And when I think he was a little upset that, you know, they switched out directors, and, you know, he may have been sort of checked out. We need

Unknown Speaker  22:45   to have a term for that, like, you know, like Marlon Brando with Island of Dr. Moreau when an actor gets ditched by the director, and then just phones in the movie, like, Can we call that something? Well, but I don't know.

Unknown Speaker  22:56   I don't I wouldn't compare those two because Brando and Island of Dr. Moreau is crazy. Right? Right. Like, does whatever

Unknown Speaker  23:04   you want. Well, he Benicio should have done that, you know, that would have been more interesting.

Unknown Speaker  23:08   Yeah. I think he's got his moments. I think we know when he's getting ready to change and stuff. I think he does good. But I agree, when we're doing the sort of straightforward stuff and he's just trying to be sort of, you know, mysterious romantic lead. It doesn't really work. And I don't think that that's his, his wheelhouse. No,

Unknown Speaker  23:28   I was fine with it. I just I think but also, I'm just like, such a fan of his I really like him a lot. So I'm, I'm just giving him a pass. Like, I don't know, I was fine with it. I wasn't looking at him and his performance that critically, especially once I got to see the unrated version and got to spend some more time with Larry lots and lots of more time with Larry so I knew what was uh, what was really going on with Larry. But yeah, I thought I thought his performance was was fine for for what it is.

Unknown Speaker  24:01   Okay, so moving on, he goes to the village to see his brother's body which is being kept in a slaughterhouse. I don't know if that was common for the time or if they just thought it would be a kind of a cool touch. But we get sort of a you know, quick shot of the body and I feel like the gore effects are good. Overall, in this movie, they make a real attempt to lean into the our rating, which I appreciate a lot of the times it's sort of CGI gore and violence, but you know, they don't hold back which I like about the movie.

Unknown Speaker  24:36   I thought that scene was gross like I in my notes I wrote yuck because it was just that's how I felt because I mean, it's our I yeah, I had the same question. I was like as this is how it was done. I was like are they just really hate Ben and they hate the tall but family and they just throw them in here and that the slaughterhouse because this is this is gross. I mean, and they're like you really feel it because it's like, Benicio is like just covering His face and I'm like buying it I'm like, this place stinks. This is this is nasty. And I thought also when they pull it back it was it was good good like it may be the first time it made me kind of jumps is like oh, like it wasn't ready for for that like, though there was some serious wolf chowing down on Ben.

Unknown Speaker  25:19   Well, and I think you might have a point about the town's folk, because in the next scene, we go to the pub, and the town's folk are sort of talking about the brother's death. And you know, Larry's there at the, in the corner at a table and he's, you know, hearing them talk. He looks a medallion that he found on his brother, which isn't very well explained. The townspeople are blaming the Gypsy, and we you know, we get a werewolf story. You know, a lot of this reminded me of the pub scene and American Werewolf in London. Absolutely. Now in the unrated version, one of the guy starts talking smack about the family, you know, talk smack about his mom going crazy. And Larry, the scene ends with Larry throwing a drink on the guy, which, again, I felt this made the scene better in the theatrical cut. It's just the scene. He doesn't interact with him at all. He's just sort of sitting there. So I felt like the unrated cut at least shows you Oh, he doesn't get it. He doesn't like the villagers. They don't like his family. This is probably why he left and puts a nice button on that point.

Unknown Speaker  26:26   Yes, I agree. Because Yeah, and the theatrical he's just sitting over there kind of just sulking and listening. And the townspeople are also alluding to the fact that it might you know, it might not have been a beast it could it like they're kind of talking about seems like they were I think they're talking kind of about like jack the Ripper or something like that. I do remember they're kind of talking about that there's there's a mentally unstable, you know, man that could have done this or something.

Unknown Speaker  26:52   Right. And wasn't a Hugo Weaving, like was his last case was the Ripper. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  26:57   yeah, he was. Yeah, he was on the Ripper case, which Yeah, Larry kind of needles him with because obviously, they never caught jack the Ripper. So

Unknown Speaker  27:06   and I think like they were also kind of alluding to Larry's mental state, which we learn more about later.

Unknown Speaker  27:13   So this this whole pub talk, and you reminding us that you know, this happened in American Werewolf in London. And how it's, it's pretty much the same scene, same beats, you know, beware don't go out and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, trying to be spooky warning. But I feel like it there's no twist on it. You know, in Frankenstein, and in Dracula, the mo was, let's go back to the book. Let's go back to the source. Let's let's do it really was in the book that in because it's never been done. beholden to the book, The way we're gonna do it. And that was what they were thinking. Whereas with Wolf, man, what was the mo here, you know, to be beholden to the old movie, because they're just retreading all these cliches without adding anything new to them. I feel like they're, they're just, you know, are here's the tip here, we're gonna do the Wolf Man story, the way it would be as if it were a cliche. And you're like, well, so why All right, I guess we get some better special effects. Get some good actors get some good lighting and production design, but there's no imagination, there's no umph to it to me.

Unknown Speaker  28:21   Well, they're I think they're just trying to update the whole thing for a modern audience who don't want to go back to the 1941 and watch it. But to your point, they're kind of taking from just werewolf movie history and kind of throwing it all throwing it all in there because they don't have a book source. They do. You know, there is no novel of the Wolf Man. The 1940s movie was the original version of it. So you know, I kind of see what they're doing. I feel like they're just trying to sort of update Yeah, Gothic werewolf movie as an abstract, not as a specific thing. Got it. Now in the unrated cut, we get a dinner scene with dad, Gwen, Larry and the Kim fail sheet See, doesn't get introduced at all, or he gets really barely introduced at all in the theatrical version. He's just sort of standing in the background. And they dine on baked eel, which is just about the grossest thing I can imagine. I can't think of anything that I'd like to eat less baked eel. And they talk about the superstitious villagers. And we get a real sense that there's tension between dad and Larry here, which I like and it gets really uncomfortable for Gwen and she leaves. I appreciated the scene because it set up more of the dynamics dramatically.

Unknown Speaker  29:46   Yes, I appreciated this as well. Also with his, I believe he called him his manservant, the Kim Valle. Seek. I that was another thing we're like in the future. conversion. I was like, when did we meet this guy like it happened so fast with him and that the electrical version I was like, Wait, what? What's going on here? And you

Unknown Speaker  30:09   want to know who he is yours that guy?

Unknown Speaker  30:11   Yeah, no, you definitely want to know who he is. So yeah, I appreciated more of him. The seek is another thread that just never pays off.

Unknown Speaker  30:20   Did you see in the unrated cut when he picks up the guitar and starts ripping on some Soundgarden,

Unknown Speaker  30:26   I would have loved to have seen that.

Unknown Speaker  30:28   Now, in the theatrical version, they cut right to the manor. And, you know, there's this sort of awkward scene where Larry goes to Gwen's door and he's like, Hey, I'm here. And I know, when you've seen the unrated, you can see that this is a scene they threw together to sort of set it up that they've met. Yeah, at this point, because, you know, she's in the theatrical she's only written him a letter. But there is this weird thing where the letter she wrote, keeps coming up, again, in the unrated version, which didn't happen in the unrated version. So when a mess, yeah, like as an editor, I think it's interesting to have you on this conversation specifically, Chris, because you are an editor. And you've probably been involved in some projects where they've had to sort of cobble things together from different versions definitely

Unknown Speaker  31:21   obviously just left in and they're like Foghat who cares. And you know, I'm sure it made sense in like, probably like, the first, you know, maybe two and a half hour cut of it, and then they just kept chopping away. And then who knows who they brought in to do a hack job, but I'm sure a lot of those threads were left in and they just, instead of, you know, in that in specifically in that scene, if you look where he meets, I think it's the theatrical cut where he meets her for the first time in the hallway. A lot of his dialogue is on her. So it's just ADR him saying, like, I got your letter, very nice to meet you. And you can totally tell that they just ADR, those lines into shoo in that he is meeting here for the first time there. So yeah, this, it's definitely a mess. And there's a lot of those things that I think people just wouldn't notice on our first viewing. But now we're analyzing it. Yeah, you're like, Oh,

Unknown Speaker  32:16   no, I wouldn't if I only watched the unrated cut, I probably wouldn't have noticed it. It's just because I'm familiar with both versions. What what I find kind of weird about it is that you would assume the unrated cut was closer to say the assembly directors of the assembly cut and then they whittled it down. But she talks about the letter in the later scenes in the unrated cut so it's almost as if they made the decision to cut it down while they were still filming

Unknown Speaker  32:47   it. Maybe it was like a bigger even bigger thing where she wrote him a letter then went to visit him then you know, like so it's probably a thing on the thing on the thing. And then they were just like, let's all just cut it out. And

Unknown Speaker  32:58   I think that would have made sense since actually Chris because it would have like that she could have written him first and then he didn't respond and then she went in person, because you know, he wasn't responding. The other thing that I wanted to point out about when she does when he goes to her door, is that her maid or lady and waiting or whatever you want to call her is Yara Greyjoy Did you notice that? No way from Game of Thrones? Yeah, I was like, Oh my God, that's the Greyjoy sister tiara,

Unknown Speaker  33:28   which was like can you miss her? She disappears I think

Unknown Speaker  33:31   you might get her on one more scene like but very very brief.

Unknown Speaker  33:34   That's like the only reason for me to go back and watch

Unknown Speaker  33:38   Yeah, we're giving away your hand Chris

Unknown Speaker  33:42   and just to touch upon Emily Blunt now you know i think you know she's well cast in this movie. I guess she does a really good job considering what she's been given which I think is a pretty thankless role. There's not a lot to it but I mean, she gets some moments to cry and stuff and I you know, I think she delivers I think a case could be made for the her being the best for sure in the movie. I agreed.

Unknown Speaker  34:08   Let me bring up one more point about just the brothers story in general like why I don't maybe this is originally in you know, in the original Wolf Man, but it just makes no sense to have this brother standing in the way of a the love story, all of it just like why doesn't Why don't they just give the story to Benicio and have him be in love with her. And it's like this trifecta between him and Anthony Hopkins. It just seems to be a step too far.

Unknown Speaker  34:34   The brother is just a plot device to get him

Unknown Speaker  34:37   but he's so important because it's like oh, that's Emily Blunt's you know, fiance and all this stuff where it just seems like they could have figured out a different way of doing it. You know, it seems like

Unknown Speaker  34:47   a gothic romance kind of thing. You told Oh, the dead brother, you know, okay. It adds a layer of you know, sadness to it.

Unknown Speaker  34:58   They just need to do it. It was I agree they just needed to get him as far as like the why why that's important is just like because it comes to you know, to light later about you know how much she hates his father and how much he hates this town and like wouldn't come back so it's like and and again if we you know if we do believe that there was a letter and then there was her going there and you know, I mean there could have always been some sort of kind of thing between them because yeah, it's the whole Gothic like, you know, longing and all that stuff. Yeah, but yeah, it's just I think it's totally just to get him back home and to just make it the most dysfunctional family ever. We pretty much and worst dad award of all time. Yeah, we'll come to find out later.

Unknown Speaker  35:47   And I will say this. I don't think that Benicio del Toro and Emily blonde have sizzling on screen chemistry. On speaking of worst dad award, we get another scene with Talbot and his dad and Anthony Hopkins looking out the telescope to the moon. Again, the telescope is a reference to the original film. His dad in the original film, who was played by Claude Rains is fascinated with his telescope, but the telescope never comes into play later. So it's yet another sort of reference that doesn't have a real point in the story.

Unknown Speaker  36:25   That scene I do love that Anthony Hopkins takes the time to blow out almost every single candle that he has in the room which I'm like you know what fucking a that's realistic you know like with the production design like this year like how many freakin candles does this guy have and they show him like you know what, it's time to go to bed this was a ritual we used to have I would you'd have to sit here open up this thing blow inside put it out and it's actually a fun callback when you see him in his sorry spoiler when if we just jump ahead to his little man cave or wolf cave thing? There's like 8 million candles there and I just kept thinking like how long is it gonna take him to blow these in his gave man it will take a long time.

Unknown Speaker  37:06   It was the family crypt I believe

Unknown Speaker  37:08   Okay, I'm surprised he didn't make his poor Kim fail manservant Yeah, blow out all these candles. But I thought also Chris I noticed the candles as well. And I was also really impressed with like, some of the cool like lantern type devices they have like candles as well like kind of these like kind of mini torch type things. I don't know what you would call it but I was like I thought that was really again with the production design. The attention to detail was was really cool.

Unknown Speaker  37:37   You know that blowing out all the candles thing was was all Hopkins I was like, I need to blow out all these.

Unknown Speaker  37:45   Okay, Anthony, go ahead.

Unknown Speaker  37:48   All right now in the unrated cut, we get Larry going to Gwen's room. But it's a different scene than in the theatrical and he apologizes for making her uncomfortable into over dinner and gives her items of her brothers. It's you know, it's not like a great scene or anything, but it definitely helps sort of, you know, you feel that her character is more endeared to him by it, as opposed to in the theatrical where you don't really understand why she would be endeared to him at all, because they don't even really have any real scene. So again, I feel like it's a better scene. Then we get to one of few sequences in the film where Larry is having a flashback. It plays like a dream sequence but he's not sleeping he's awake. And he's just sort of having these traumatic flashes of

Unknown Speaker  38:42   maybe he took the spice

Unknown Speaker  38:46   and he's playing with his brother and the mother's watching you know they wake up at night and something sinister is going on in the house like in the hallway This is

Unknown Speaker  38:54   where we see the blood come out of the sidewalk I remember that being a very cool image

Unknown Speaker  38:58   Yes, yes, I believe that's where we see that it's all done in this very stylish Gothic kind of look, but it feels a little like they're trying hard to be trippy and spooky and I don't know if it's they kind of go like a little too far I think with some of the techniques, but he goes out into the garden we get a cool topiary had some cool topiary hedges a gorilla which I appreciated the topiary a gorilla, for sure you know in the movie looks expensive. They didn't spare any expense, which is why it's appropriate to do for Tentpole Trauma because they spent a lot of money on this movie and it bombed so I feel that it's appropriate for this podcast no

Unknown Speaker  39:42   doubt and I will say that the night scenes all look like they're shot at night, you know, and the lighting is great. And you know, there's no Day for Night here at all. And kudos to those cinematography for making it look appropriately scary.

Unknown Speaker  39:56   Yeah, I mean, I think the cinematography is is impeccable. I forget who the cinematographer was. I feel that it fits in with the Coppola Dracula and the Kenneth brana. Frankenstein, at least in that regard where you know, you know, it's high high production value update.

Unknown Speaker  40:15   Interesting. The cinematographer is Shelley Johnson. And he was also the cinematographer for Captain America The First Avenger. Okay,

Unknown Speaker  40:25   yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Because that same director, right

Unknown Speaker  40:28   buddies with Joe, but also what to Chris's point about, you know, bringing up a new agreed with that as well bringing up the superhero feel to some of the film anyway.

Unknown Speaker  40:38   Yeah. And Joe Johnson also did the rocket tear, which was also sort of a throwback, superhero 1940s type of things. So it's kind of his wheelhouse. I can see why he was hired for this when Mark Romanek left the production.

Unknown Speaker  40:51   He was also a special effects guy, right? Did he work on Star Wars? Yeah, stuff. So

Unknown Speaker  40:57   yeah, he was like a Spielberg protege, a guy who came up through Spielberg. Yeah, we get to see a quick shot of a D aged Hopkins with a goatee and the dead mother and it's sort of framed to look like a suicide. She's got a straight razor in her hand, you know, but I think at this point, nobody's really thinking that that is a suicide. The mother having, you know, spoiler the fact that the mother was killed by Hopkins, is really not a surprise at all. You know, even on first viewing, you're like, she didn't kill herself. It's kind of one of those performances by Hopkins where, you know, immediately he's a bad guy, you know, sort of like the sort of like the jack nicholson shining, where you're like, yeah, of course, he's gonna go crazy. He's clearly crazy.

Unknown Speaker  41:49   Yeah, even if you don't know exactly what his deal is, you know, he killed her, like you don't even if you don't know how it went down, you know what I mean? Like, there's more more to be revealed, but you immediately know that he's, he's the villain.

Unknown Speaker  42:03   And in that scene, Benicio, I feel like gives nothing right after you see his mother dead. Like, that was one of my notes. When you see that happen? You think, you know, I'm, I'm reliving this childhood trauma, and it cuts to him. And he's just like, Oh, yeah, I remember that. And I'm like, Whoa, what's going on here? Why didn't anybody direct this guide? Or? I don't know. That's an example of my of a moment where he he failed to deliver for me,

Unknown Speaker  42:29   I feel like it's a little unfair to judge his performance. Totally. Because the the editing is so suspected it but I feel like a lot of the especially the scenes where he's having these flashbacks, they could have been, like, put together from something else. Like I would have to have read the script to know if this was all intended to be in there. From the beginning.

Unknown Speaker  42:50   Maybe I'm reading too much into Larry. And maybe I'm just too much of a Binney SEO defender. But I also think that, you know, as we find out more, you know, sorry, spoiler alert, that Larry spent some time in asylum. Yeah. And they did a lot of bad things to Larry, I don't know if he is even able to have the proper emotional responses at this point. Because I mean, you see what goes on in the asylum. It's bad news. So maybe Larry's just tapped out like this is, you know, like, this is all the reaction that he can muster. Or maybe he just saves it all for the stage.

Unknown Speaker  43:31   Alright, so then moving on, we go to the brother's funeral. There's, you know, more Gothic imagery, then Larry and Gwen haven't have a moment by the waterfall. He talks about his father's cruelty. And then that's, as you were mentioning, Jen, where we get our first mention that he was put in an asylum, and then after that sent to America, this sort of waterfall setting will also come back into play at the very end.

Unknown Speaker  43:58   Yeah, that's where he says, Gwen says, Ben said that you guys played here as children. And Larry says it was our refuge. So we

Unknown Speaker  44:05   find out that Glen is leaving. You know, whatever. This is all happening super fast. It just feels like the scenes are really cut to the quick here. Then we get Lawrence goes off to find the gypsies because he's learned that his brother was involved with them or something like that. And you know, I like the Gypsy camp. It's pretty cool. It's you know, it's about what you would expect from a big budget movie Gypsy camp. Geraldine Chaplin, the daughter of Charlie Chaplin, is the gypsy woman

Unknown Speaker  44:36   I know she's also I know her from Do you guys know the movie with Holly Hunter home for the holidays? Do you remember that at all with like, Claire, I've heard of her name. Well, I highly recommend it. It's really good Robert Downey Jr. and Holly Hunter. And anyway, it's a fun holiday film, but that's where that's where I reckon

Unknown Speaker  44:52   Downey Jr. was in Chaplin.

Unknown Speaker  44:55   Oh, interesting. Yeah, good connection.

Unknown Speaker  44:57   Also on this scene, we get a quick Rick Baker cameo Rick Baker's the famous makeup artist who did design the way he designed American Werewolf in London and lots of Famous Monsters he designed just did he work on this? He did. He designed the werewolf. We get a quick cameo of him here. He's the guy that's just kind of on lookout and he's watching and then he gets slammed by the werewolf really quickly.

Unknown Speaker  45:24   I also wanted to bring up that before we get Larry going to the Gypsy camp, which by the way, we all know is not a good word, but that's just how they use it. And the film. Yes, just disclaimer. I was it's a little puzzling that Larry's Dad, I made a note of this because he's like telling him me like, you know, yeah, you should stay inside because it's going to be a full moon. I don't want to lose you too. And then he says all of that and then it's like cut too. We see Larry riding off to the Gypsy camp like you know, whatever, dad, because he of course he's not going to listen to him. So I guess as I'm talking it through now I'm thinking like, maybe it was some sort of reverse psychology to like to get

Unknown Speaker  46:04   him to go out. It is weird though. The way it cuts right from him saying Don't go Don't go out and I don't

Unknown Speaker  46:11   want to lose you too. And then yeah, he's there he is galloping away another great cut.

Unknown Speaker  46:17   We get the prerequisite in a universal monster movie. We get villagers with torches they show up for the bear because they're they blame the gypsies bear for the attack on Larry's brother. The bear is very clearly not a real bear. It's a CG bear. But you know, we don't want them torturing. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  46:36   well, did you hear what he said? He says to somebody says like he doesn't all he does is dance. And I was like, Oh, that's sad to like dancing berry circuses.

Unknown Speaker  46:48   Yeah, but that's like

Unknown Speaker  46:49   somebody said that he's supposed to be an old like bear that's like about to be put out to pasture. Right? Like, I think the pub people are like, there's no way that bear could have done this. He's so old. And yeah, you feel a lot of sympathy for that bear even though he's CG.

Unknown Speaker  47:02   At least they don't have the bear fight the werewolf and get torn apart. Well, that would be more so I

Unknown Speaker  47:07   will say the claws through the policeman's mouth is pretty cool. That was one of the cool dads. I love that shot

Unknown Speaker  47:13   high. high praise for that, Chris. Yes, that that. I love that. I love that kill.

Unknown Speaker  47:19   Yeah, that's, you know, that's what happens the way the werewolf attacks that camp. And you know, we get that shot and a bunch of other pretty fun gore moments. This is when the movie really comes alive. For me these scenes. There's a lot of fair criticism to be had of the film when it's trying to be dramatic, but I feel like when we get to werewolf faction, it's pretty good werewolves. Action. I mean, yes, yes. Guilty of maybe being a little too CG at times. But you know, I don't know. I'm just happy to see a wolf man werewolf running around killing people. You know, I like the way the werewolves run on all fours. At some points. It's a little goofy, but I just like it.

Unknown Speaker  48:02   That's great. It's almost like, you know, in Transformers when they transform to the different mode to go faster. You know, it's like, yes, it's almost like a cheer moment. Like, you know, if the movie were better, you would definitely be cheering at that part. Because you're like, I need to go fast. I don't do this boop, boop. And then it's just great.

Unknown Speaker  48:19   I love it too. It's It's It's total chaos when when wolf wolf thing happens, but it's like chaos in the best way. It's like it's exactly it's like for all the the slow burning that's going along. It's like you really get a payoff. And I love this scene in particular, because you have people screaming, it's the devil. Yeah, the devil. And then yeah, it's just total chaos. And then like he, there's like the little boy or the little girl that like loses or mom or dad or the mom's looking for them and like the kid wanders off or there's just like, it's Yeah, just so much so much happening. And like it's really intense. And like, you're Yeah, you're just kind of on the edge of your seat, literally. Sure.

Unknown Speaker  48:57   But in the in the Extended Cut, it takes like, what 4050 minutes to get to this point. Is it Yes, definite reason why they cut it.

Unknown Speaker  49:06   At this point. You know, we get to sort of see that Larry has a hero in him. He grabs a gun and sort of goes to help people being attacked. There's this one kid who runs off he goes to help him the kid runs off into this like Stonehenge. Yes. Like I don't think it's literally supposed to be Stonehenge in

Unknown Speaker  49:27   England or there's just mini stone hedges like all around the corner in the countryside. I have the same

Unknown Speaker  49:32   exact same thought I was I just was like, is there just one that we know of here in the states are there there are many, many of these.

Unknown Speaker  49:40   Makes me want to live in England even more. I'm a druid No, you can just have a mini Stonehenge in your neighborhood. How cool would that be?

Unknown Speaker  49:49   You know the neighborhood stonehedge you know,

Unknown Speaker  49:51   and it's super foggy and gothy which I love. I'm a sucker for that kind of imagery. I don't care if a computer is doing it. I love it. That's the point where we get that Lawrence's attacked by the werewolf and bitten really savagely on the neck. So we know he's now bearing the mark of the wolf. And the villagers show up and drive the wolf away with their guns. And they bring Larry to the gypsy woman. And you know, everybody's basically telling her to kill him, but she won't do it. She tells them, he can only be released by someone who loves him. And we're all wondering who's

Unknown Speaker  50:33   this his dad doesn't love him let

Unknown Speaker  50:36   him fail. But stitching up of the wound was pretty gross in a good way. That was great. Like what she's stitching it up that was

Unknown Speaker  50:42   with one of those long curved needles.

Unknown Speaker  50:45   fishing hook. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  50:46   that was that was cringy. And a good way

Unknown Speaker  50:49   not to bring it back to Bram Stoker's Dracula again, but there's I feel like with Dracula, you almost get more bang for your buck. Because Dracula can be Dracula. He can be a bat and he also becomes a wolf. And the wolf in that is almost more interesting, because he can do way more things. Even as sex. Yeah. Which is more than you can say for this, you know, but I mean, I guess this is again, doing the classic wolf thing, but I would have liked a little bit even more craziness with with the wolf here, where, what else could he do? You know, but I know they're trying to keep it classic.

Unknown Speaker  51:24   Yeah, but then you'd be dealing with angry werewolf, right? Tell you what you can and can't do with a werewolf. And if you don't think that they'll do that, think again. Because horror fans can be really pedantic about what their movie monsters are allowed to do. If you ever want to find out go wander into a zombie conversation because there's a lot of strong feeling and a question

Unknown Speaker  51:47   Where did the term like isn't lichen, right, that lycanthrope? Like and throw? When did that become coming to use? Because I know what it was that underworld? Is that? Is that where they use it the most? But, you know, was it always around? Well, they call them lichens. Okay. Right.

Unknown Speaker  52:04   I think it's been around since the 1800s. I didn't research it. I don't know. But it's it's a term that's been around a while it's been around before,

Unknown Speaker  52:12   because it's in one of the books where she's researching. And I was like, oh, there's that word again. But like, when did pop culture? When did the movie start using it? Because I don't remember it from the 80s. It definitely

Unknown Speaker  52:22   no, it was definitely being used in the 80s. It was, it

Unknown Speaker  52:26   was it seems like instead, like you know how they go the Batman instead of Batman. They're like, let's say let's call them this. And so we don't have to call them werewolves now. And it just seems like like let's latch on to a new term.

Unknown Speaker  52:38   Yeah, it's a kind of it sounds sort of scientific. So it Yeah, sound smart. Right. When you say it?

Unknown Speaker  52:44   Well, it was first, the first mention of the word according to Wikipedia, was in 60. Ad.

Unknown Speaker  52:51   Whoa, wow.

Unknown Speaker  52:52   Yeah. Okay. So it's a it's a it's a Greek word, apparently. And it's translation. It's leukosis, which is Wolf and anthropos, which is man says Luke can throw pa or throw PA. That's where it comes from. The definition of it is that it's a form of madness involving the delusion of being an animal usually a wolf with corresponding altered behavior. But yeah, so it's been around for a long time. I don't know when it was, like, like subset I don't know when it was first mentioned in films, but it's it's a term that's been around a long, long time. It's used in movies and stuff earlier than you think. I wouldn't be surprised if it's used in the original Wolf Man or werewolf of London, which was the first official will universal were watching not American. Were right London, werewolf and of London. But um, yeah, good research. Interesting fact. So Lauren, Larry is brought back to the manor. When comes back, and like Glenn keeps coming and going. In the movie. It's like, just stay put, when

Unknown Speaker  54:02   the funeral is over. What is she doing? Like leaves?

Unknown Speaker  54:05   And then she comes, you know, it's just like, Why are Why are they moving her around so much in the story, just have her stay there. Who cares? It's a weird, baffling you know, sort of plot thing that keeps happening. You know, Larry's his head is swimming from I don't know, you know, being infected with lycanthropy. And we're getting these sort of dreamy, you know, heroine visions. You know, we get the sort of Gollum looking wolf boy,

Unknown Speaker  54:35   so Gollum. Yes. I wrote down the same thing.

Unknown Speaker  54:39   It looks like they just took the like, they took the Gollum model. Just through some, just, He really looks like Gollum. And you know, we'll later learn what that will boy is and it all it's, it's all fine, but it just seems kind of, you know, thrown together to add some scares or whatever.

Unknown Speaker  55:00   And then this is an again this is this is when Kim sale seek showed up and in the theatrical version, I was like wait, who is this guy again? It was just so like in the unrated. We get so much more of him. Anyway, so he shows up he comes in with a tray. And then you know Larry's like oh take when I thought you were leaving and Gwen's like this place is it's possible to escape. And this is, you know, this is Besides, this is the least I can do. Yeah. And then we see Larry, starting to heal.

Unknown Speaker  55:30   Then we pass over the spot where Anthony Hopkins and Emily blonde pass each other on the stairs. And he just I was just about to bring that up. I love I mean, talk about classic, awesome Anthony Hopkins where he's just eating the apple and just gives her the creepiest stare in the world. I love it.

Unknown Speaker  55:47   Well, that's only in the unrated cut. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  55:50   How could they cut that? But I mean, come on, like,

Unknown Speaker  55:53   yeah, I mean, in in the unrated cut. This whole section is much better because it's really montage in the theatrical and the unrated. They kind of let it breathe a little like, you know, we get that scene, like you said, where they pass each other on the stairs. And you can tell while he's eating the apple that he really doesn't want her there.

Unknown Speaker  56:11   Now, does that make sense with I'm sorry to skip to the end again. But he said, is he supposed to be in love with Emily Blunt? Okay, because there's a certain point where he's like, your brother was gonna take her away from me and blah, blah, blah, and I can't deal with her being away. I was like, wait a minute, what was was he into her the whole time? And I was totally confused.

Unknown Speaker  56:30   No, Chris, I felt the same way. But I think and maybe I'm wrong, but I think it was just because she kind of reminds him of Gen Y.

Unknown Speaker  56:40   Right? Because then the statue of his dead wife looks exactly like Emily Blunt too. Right. So yeah, okay. All right. I guess that makes but

Unknown Speaker  56:48   I had the I had the I had the same thing though, too. But then again, I was like, Okay, this is Gothic, like anything go right. Like the dad could be in love with her too as Emily Blunt. You know, it was like, damaged, you know, like that movie damaged.

Unknown Speaker  57:00   Yeah, you know, now that you're bringing it up, I think maybe you might have a point. And I've seen this movie more times than you guys. And I never that never really sunk in to me because it's so sort of thrown in there. But yeah, I think you know, he does have sort of some weird thing for her because she reminds him of his his dead wife.

Unknown Speaker  57:20   Maybe Anthony Hopkins was like remember legends of the fall? That's the only type of movie I'm going to do where everyone falls in love with the girl all three brothers.

Unknown Speaker  57:27   Well, yeah, it's a real crime against cinema that that Apple moment was cut out of the theatrical a great people needed to see that on the big screen. So Lawrence is better sort of miniseries just kind of seems like he's been on a like five day bender.

Unknown Speaker  57:45   Got a stiff neck right, that scene?

Unknown Speaker  57:47   Yeah, the doctor comes and checks him out. And you know he's healing miraculously which the doctor is clearly unnerved by Hopkins. Dad is kind of being nice to Gwen but it feels sort of threatening now that I'm thinking about it. Maybe he's attracted to her as you pointed out, just a basic like Okay, it looks like he's on the mend kind of part of the story. But we know better. He you know, he's looking at his wounds and he's seeing how how much healing he's gone through. And then Kim fail when they get the real scene with Kim fail seek. And Larry where he's the Sikh is in the dining room or something and he's like loading up

Unknown Speaker  58:33   cleaning the he's cleaning the gun or

Unknown Speaker  58:36   elephant gun or whatever it is.

Unknown Speaker  58:38   Yeah, he was cleaning guns

Unknown Speaker  58:40   and you'll we learn that he's been there. The Sikh has been there since Larry was a kid. His name is Singh. Yes. You know, he shows. Larry is the silver bullet that he's made. Well, he

Unknown Speaker  58:53   says, and then Larry says to sing now that you thank you for remembering his name. He says, Are you preparing for a war? And then sing says Do you believe in curses? Mm hmm.

Unknown Speaker  59:05   Yes. And that's it. This is when we really it's really driven home that sing is the man servant. And everybody needs a man servant. I think

Unknown Speaker  59:14   I need man's servant.

Unknown Speaker  59:16   Now incomes one of my favorite character actors, especially when he's playing a villain Hugo Weaving. He shows up as the inspector not really a villain in this case, but he is an antagonist. Weaving is just basically doing Agent Smith from the matrix here but he's doing like Agent Smith of Scotland Yard basically, it's pretty much the same performance. He goes to the manor to question Lawrence about the going the wolfy goings on. You know, Hopkins is sort of like gatekeeping but Larry's like no, go ahead, let them in. I'll talk to them. So they have the sort of scene in a in the park. Where we even starts off by saying, you know, I've been following your acting career, Mr. Anderson, and you know, starts off sort of ingratiating himself, and then the questioning becomes more pointed. You know, he's bringing up Larry's time in the asylum, and then he brings up how, oh, he's an actor, so maybe he's playing another role, you know, or, you know, this implication that, uh, you know, an actor would be more, you know, likely to be a murderer. And, you know, I think that's when Larry sort of needles him about not catching jack the Ripper.

Unknown Speaker  1:00:38   Yeah, but he's no, he's no Van Helsing from when actually when Anthony Hopkins played Van Helsing, he did bring a little bit more craziness to the role where it's like, everyone's kind of stuffy in this movie, and I feel like this would have been the opportunity for him to bump it up a notch and be like, a little bit different than this like stuffy straightlaced Scotland Yard guy, you know, in Anthony Hopkins, Van Helsing literally humps, Billy Campbell in Dracula, you know, and it's like, Yeah, he plays him totally crazy. And I feel like this movie could have used a little bit more like passionate melodrama over the top, you know, acting just to just to make it more a little bit entertaining. Yeah. Jen, like you're saying like, Alright, so if Benicio is, is a mopey guy who's like, all inward and whatever, you need something to balance that out. Like there needs to be a little bit of Yeah, agree. You know that other flavor?

Unknown Speaker  1:01:29   Yeah. And there's definitely no performance in this that goes, it's sort of in the crazy direction of, of Anthony Hopkins, and Dracula, or of Gary Oldman, and Dracula. Yeah, nobody's nobody's boring it on to that level. The movie could have benefited from a little more. Hey, agreed. Then now then there's some more hallucinations outside. There's another scene with Glenn, where he teaches her how to skip stones. Were you guys swept into the romance of this?

Unknown Speaker  1:01:59   Honestly, that's the one moment that they actually have that I feel like feels human. And I was like, I guess that's it. They're in love. That's it. That's all we get.

Unknown Speaker  1:02:07   That's all it takes Chris. That's all it takes.

Unknown Speaker  1:02:11   Stones a love that will stand the test of time, right?

Unknown Speaker  1:02:15   Oh, I think I might be skipping ahead. But there's that other moment where he she says something to him and then there's a big close up of her lips and he's just like losing control because she's so sexy and alluring and yeah, I feel like that's the one deep moment of sexuality in the movie that I feel like could have been threaded throughout the entire thing. Everybody is just driven crazy because of because they're Woolfson you know, tie it to sexuality and then this whole thing that peeked out for a moment there maybe that was from Roman x you know idea but like they didn't really go go there with it. It's just like this odd one moment where it's like oh, I got to get away from you Emily because you know you're driving me crazy.

Unknown Speaker  1:02:56   He sends her away again Yeah, right that point

Unknown Speaker  1:03:00   go skip some rocks.

Unknown Speaker  1:03:03   But no, he has like yeah, I think that is in the moment, Chris because it's like we're getting his Wolfie hearing and then I think he's like Wolfie horniness

Unknown Speaker  1:03:12   with it's, it's it's very, it's just a few See, it's like a another scene. Okay, it's right. It's right around that area. It's a different scene, but

Unknown Speaker  1:03:20   it's close by where he's like, yes, zooming in on her like her pouty lips and like, kind of, I think maybe even like her chest area or something like her neck

Unknown Speaker  1:03:28   or something. He's like, like the nape of her neck. And he's like, looking at her pulse.

Unknown Speaker  1:03:32   Yes. That's the point of the movie, as Anthony Hopkins will later say is like, it's so good to be the wolf. Let the wolf free. Like, you know, that should have been been nice to struggle the entire time has been like, well, like, it feels good to be the wolf. But no, I can't I know, I can't but where's that touched on in a second? But, you know, I feel like if that's your thesis of the movie, that's the reason why the main bad guy loves being the wolf. And I feel like that's an interesting concept, you know, and they touched on that in what Emily's Hulk. He knows like, the craziest things I like when I Hulk out and yeah, so I feel like that could have been explored and brought to, you know, a satisfying the Matic point.

Unknown Speaker  1:04:13   I think he's got a complicated relationship with his wolf Enos because he's like, I think, you know, he would maybe if he didn't have such the past that he did and the family issues that he did, he might be able to lean into it more, but I think it's because of all this family stuff that's happened and like all this, like, you know, all the stuff that happened to him or whatever, he doesn't really get to enjoy being a wolf. Like we just get, because usually I feel like with the wolf, man, there's usually some enjoyment and then there's remorse. Afterwards, you know, like when they come back down or whatever, it's like going on a bedroom, you know? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  1:04:50   But it's definitely while it's on and it's always been a sort of metaphor used in at least in movies. It's often been a metaphor for alcoholism. Yeah. You know drug addiction beat yeah yeah right and I think to Chris's point like a probably would have been strengthened better if we got some sense of being you know for for beneath CEOs care we get it from Hopkins but oh yeah like from beneath to his character that this is can be fun and exciting and exhilarating and you know you get a rush out of becoming this monster and killing

Unknown Speaker  1:05:26   I don't think he allows himself to have that

Unknown Speaker  1:05:29   so you know the villagers are sort of you know gathering up in there you know they've they they think they know what's going on here and they want to take Larry in they have this really creepy priest with them. They show up at the the manor we see them sort of in montage making silver bullets and stuff. We see that the full moon is coming so we know that you know, Larry is gonna wolf out soon. We get a quick sort of scene with Hugo Weaving at the time. Totally not buying into this werewolf shit. He keeps asking for a pint of bitter please.

Unknown Speaker  1:06:03   Right? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  1:06:05   And the lady in the pub is not having it because her husband was killed by the wolf. So she's like, you should be out there looking for this killer. And he says all he wants is his beer. Yeah. And yeah. And she's, she's like, so bent out of shape. He was like I you know, there, there are rules. I can't just hang around here, you know, rules that will keep us from a doggy dog world. And then he's just like, you know, where's my pint of better? I skipped today, the scene where the they show up at the manor with a priest. And Hopkins comes and fires at them with his his gun. And he's like, oh, sorry, I meant to hit you.

Unknown Speaker  1:06:41   He apologizes for missing. Right. It's pretty great. And it's sort of you know, you're it's a weird kind of moment, because he you know, you haven't really seen him sort of stick up for Larry. Yeah, but now he's like, he's sticking up for him. And you know, he's like, my men servant is hiding in the on the roof. And he's a crack shot. Yes. But he's not really there. Seek is not on the roof. It's a bluff. Right.

Unknown Speaker  1:07:03   And that's when he says to Larry, he's like, that's what he says. He goes, you're not the only actor in the family.

Unknown Speaker  1:07:09   Yeah. So it does pay off. It does pay off. So

Unknown Speaker  1:07:13   yeah, basically, we're all just heading towards Larry turning into the Wolf Man, which is what we sort of been waiting for. Basically, dad knows it's coming and he lures Larry out to the family mausoleum. He's got it all set up with candles and everything. And you know, the mom's sarcophagus is there, which is a pretty sweet sarcophagus. Later in a hallucination, we see it sort of, you know, it's this carved marble thing and we see it move and say something to me. It's

Unknown Speaker  1:07:42   technically a wife Kane, isn't it? Kind of Yeah, keep

Unknown Speaker  1:07:46   that's where he keeps his wife. Every good wife deserves a mausoleum. That's right. Anyway, so you know, they go down into the crypt, and we find out that and this is a little confusing, because he like closes a cage door. And you think that he's the dad is going to lock him in? Mm hmm. But I think it's just to separate them like he doesn't we don't see Larry breaking out of anything, so he's not locked in there.

Unknown Speaker  1:08:14   Oh, it's because he's gonna turn into a werewolf too. Yeah, right. That's where that's where he goes all the time to keep everyone safe, right?

Unknown Speaker  1:08:22   Yes, right. Yes. But usually thing has to come in a lot. I think he gets he has to lock it from the outside.

Unknown Speaker  1:08:28   Yes. That's you know, that's what he says is saying locks me he says that later. He says Singh locks me in every time I change. But you know, I don't want to be locked in anymore. The wolf must must outright and so it's just a little the way it's sort of blocked is a kind of confused, confusing to me, because we see him close a cage kind of door between them. But neither of them is actually trapped in there. Because then Larry starts to change. We get the first real werewolf transformation that we see. It's good. It's see again, it's very CG. You know, and I know I from what I know about the movie about the production. Originally they wanted to do practical transformations and Rick Baker was really excited to do that. But because Roman EC left under such short notice, Joe Johnston didn't feel he had the time and you know, I remember people who were fans of Wolf Man having a lot of problem with that at the time. Let's do CG needs to be needs to be practical and I mean, I agree it would have been better if it had been practical but

Unknown Speaker  1:09:43   absolutely i mean that's that's your money shot right there. That's why people come to see the movie is to see you know, the transformation and if then to that if you're going to make the Wolf Man update you got to do I'm not saying it shouldn't have been maybe it should have been a mix of CG and yeah and practical, but they should have, you know, it's like, oh, I don't have time to do that. Well then don't do the movie. Yeah. Like, I feel like that's, that's an important section of the movies is the transformation. Right? And if you can't be, you know, American Werewolf in London, right, then why bother

Unknown Speaker  1:10:14   here? Yeah, yeah, I get it, I get why it happened. It is a disappointment. And if they had pulled off something really spectacular, it would have been a selling point for the move. Yeah, yes. But, you know, and, and this is, you know, key. This is pertinent to the point of this podcast, I think, you know, the transformation was shown a lot in the trailers. And I think, you know, it was very clear from the trailers that it was CG, and I think that that turned a lot of people off. Yeah, they saw that and they were like, yeah, just looks like a CG mess.

Unknown Speaker  1:10:47   I'll give you the moaning sounds so painful, like waves like,

Unknown Speaker  1:10:52   just like, God Damn, that sounds painful, man. Like,

Unknown Speaker  1:10:56   he's bringing it there, Chris. He's bringing it. He's coming alive.

Unknown Speaker  1:11:01   And I and I like the things that they focus on in the transformation. I like they show his hand getting all gnarly. Yeah, they show his like, leg getting bent back like a wolf. scenary. Yeah. So it's like, I feel like they knew what to focus on.

Unknown Speaker  1:11:18   They just write the concepts there. Yeah, the

Unknown Speaker  1:11:20   concept was there. They just you didn't have the time to execute it in the way that would have been the most effective.

Unknown Speaker  1:11:27   And along with what Chris said, with the moaning I think the sound was really good for the transformation, too. There's a lot of the like the crack, you know, here the bone. Yeah, it's gross. And then yeah, like, I always love like, when the feet come out, like the shoes and stuff to like, just everything just busting out and just like, yeah, does gnarled and knuckled and, yeah, it's just a it would have been It's a shame. I agree with what you're both saying, if it could have been a mix of CG and practical, I think that would have really been been something that could have been a standout for the film, but, but I think also, yes, that's something that our fans want. But our fans also have, you know, set the bar high with like you're saying with like, American Werewolf in London, or the howling? Like you have, like, you know, these transformations. Can we talk about the way he looks though? Because, yeah, I think I think he looks great. And I know you love him to Sebastian because he looks like

Unknown Speaker  1:12:23   Hold on, though. When we first were watching it together. You said you didn't think that the the wolf man looked very good.

Unknown Speaker  1:12:31   I came around to it though. I came around to it. Well, because of

Unknown Speaker  1:12:35   why did you

Unknown Speaker  1:12:35   because because I think as we talked earlier about the effects, like there's certain times where it looks better than others. Like there's certain lighting, there's certain things like it just there's times where he looks better. there's times where he truly looks like our action figure, which is what I want him to look like, we have a wolf man action figure. And he looks I mean, I think he's identical to that. But then there was like, the first maybe it was the first shot of him. When we watched the theatrical version. I was just kind of like, I don't know. And it could also be just because like it was more of the the maybe the movement of him as well like being more like, like we said, like more superhero esque or something. I don't know, but later, I don't know. I grew to be like, Alright, no, I'm into this. Like, I like the way he looks now. But yes, you're right. In the beginning, I was like,

Unknown Speaker  1:13:26   Well, I mean, I brought it up. The reason why I brought it up and wanted you to restate your feelings on that is because you're not alone. There's a lot of people who don't like the look of it. I have friends in the horror community who weren't into the design, and I like the design the reason why I like the design is because it evokes the original Wolf Man. It's an update of the original Wolf Man. And it's also a sort of take on the Oliver read werewolf from

Unknown Speaker  1:13:57   Curse of the werewolf,

Unknown Speaker  1:13:58   right Curse of the werewolf the hammer werewolf movie it's sort of a combination of those two more the Oliver read werewolf and in his clothing,

Unknown Speaker  1:14:07   I love the clothing and for me that that kind of makes it I mean, I don't I'm not aware of you know, the various looks as you guys are but to me it feels like the correct way to update the classic werewolf you know, and when he's got bad vest and shirt on and just the the shape of his head and the way everything looks. Yes, it's, you're like, that's, that's perfect. You know that that? That's him?

Unknown Speaker  1:14:31   Yeah, I love that too. And it's that that sort of vest look is sort of similar to what Oliver Reed is wearing in the curse of the werewolf. Yeah, I love the costuming of it. I really like the look of it. I understand like at first glance it seems maybe a little awkward. But it works for me his he doesn't really have an extended snout like a lot of modern werewolves do it's sort of you know, more compact like the original Wolf Man.

Unknown Speaker  1:15:00   I think it's what I like about it.

Unknown Speaker  1:15:01   I like that too.

Unknown Speaker  1:15:02   Well, to me, there's a difference between just a werewolf and the wolf. Ah,

Unknown Speaker  1:15:06   wow. Okay,

Unknown Speaker  1:15:08   the Wolf Man looks more like a man. Yeah, he's a specific type of werewolf. He's

Unknown Speaker  1:15:14   right, man. You know, recently recently, I discovered I think I watched like on YouTube or something about special makeup effects for thriller, and they were mentioning how that is actually aware cat, right? Oh, because he's, you know, they got the long whiskers and it's a flat face as well. And I'm like, Oh, that's why that that stands out to me as well. Is that that? That look is very cool, too. And yeah, and I think I'm on your wavelength Sebastian, where I think it's cool. The design is always cooler when it's more man than wolf.

Unknown Speaker  1:15:46   Yeah. This is when we get the first Howl, which I think sounds pretty great. You know, who was involved in making the howl?

Unknown Speaker  1:15:54   I do. But I'll let you deliver x interior. No.

Unknown Speaker  1:15:58   You did the stuff for Dracula?

Unknown Speaker  1:16:00   No, it was David Lee Roth and Gene Simmons. The clap

Unknown Speaker  1:16:04   the two classiest people in the world. Yeah. I

Unknown Speaker  1:16:07   don't know. And you know, it's fitting that we're discussing this now because Eddie Van Halen just passed away the day before yesterday and was sad, really sad. super sad piece Eddie. So yeah, I mean, I don't know how much of David Lee Roth and Gene Simmons there is actually in the howl but they were apparently brought in to record some howling for the howl. So the villagers try to trap the Wolf Man with this like deer and that sort of dugout trap. But you know, it doesn't go well for them. One of the guys gets pulled into the trap and the Wolf Man messes him up pretty bad. There's some good slashing and gore

Unknown Speaker  1:16:49   we haven't talked about because I think this might notice is I don't know if this is the first one this might be the second one because there's there's definitely a couple throughout the film, the wonderful decapitations this film deliver? Yeah. And yeah, it definitely happens. I think it might happen also at the first Gypsy wolf out but it definitely happens during this time with the little pit or whatever. You totally the decapitation.

Unknown Speaker  1:17:13   No, it happens. One of the guys who is one of the river Yeah, no, he goes into like quicksand or something. Yes. Um, he's one of the guys. He's the guy in the Extended Cut that he throws the drink at

Unknown Speaker  1:17:25   that he has probably his beef with. Yes, yes. Yes. That's why I was talking about was so satisfactory because of now knowing what goes down in the pub. I'm like, Oh, that. That's why Paul had some meaning behind it.

Unknown Speaker  1:17:37   Yeah, that that guy runs into what looks like quicksand. And he gets stuck there and the Wolf Man, Wade's out to where he is and swipes off his head with a claw and it goes flying. And it's extremely satisfying. Yes, I really like this whole sequence. It's action packed and gory and fun. And this is basically why you come to a wolf man movie, in my opinion.

Unknown Speaker  1:18:02   Yeah. I mean, I always could use even more blood. Like when, you know, granted, there's a lot of killing and maiming. But like there's not a lot of splashing of blood like that's to nitpick. You know, I just would like a little bit more splashes

Unknown Speaker  1:18:17   more blood.

Unknown Speaker  1:18:18   Okay, so then we get the scene, but that's in every werewolf movie where the werewolf wakes up and the next day and he's all covered in blood and rags. He's a human again. I've all been there. Yeah, we've all been there. You know, he's sort of near the manor. I don't know. He's like out in the backyard. I don't know where he is. But he's

Unknown Speaker  1:18:36   inside a tree tree. He's He's in a tree like the trees like hollowed out and he's like, curled up in there.

Unknown Speaker  1:18:42   Yeah. And dad is there basically like laughing at him like, Oh, you did some terrible things.

Unknown Speaker  1:18:50   Yeah. reminded me of your two terrible Mariel

Unknown Speaker  1:18:57   these clearly delighting in the fact that like he's been on that Lawrence has been on a murder rampage.

Unknown Speaker  1:19:03   This movie had been more successful that you've done terrible things could have been like a classic line. Yeah, you know, if everybody knew this movie, people would be quoting that left and right, you know, after that, nyan that bachelor party you've done.

Unknown Speaker  1:19:17   But yeah, he basically dad basically gives him up to the villagers who knocks him out, then, you know, they they haul him to London to back to the old asylum. And you know, they've got the total cliche German doctor, clearly based on Freud. They put him in this chair, which is pretty amazing. I have no idea if this is based on anything real but they dunk him in a big pool of ice. And like what looks like an electric chair, but it's just an ice dunking chairs a

Unknown Speaker  1:19:47   great image though. Yeah, and like whoever Who cares if it works, it looks like straight up torture, but it looks so cool. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  1:19:54   we go back into sort of montage mode here which I'm not crazy about. It's you know, he's He's getting tortured. Like at one point he's got like a bit nice teeth and he's like, jabbering, like, I also think that we're supposed to pick up on the fact that time is passing here. Yeah. Which, Jen, I know you had a problem with it because you're like, there's this place is just got nothing but full moons.

Unknown Speaker  1:20:20   I said the same thing like they never show a not full moon. Like, here

Unknown Speaker  1:20:25   it is. I think the montage is are supposed to serve as a feeling of passing of time without like, you know, doing the cliche thing of showing like a calendar whipping by really sad. You know, I mean, it's

Unknown Speaker  1:20:38   a month goes by because he's got a turn at some point. And I believe that they're trying to set up the fact that they all do think that he's really legit crazy. Yes, because he's acting crazy. And so that you know, the payoff later will be everyone thinks he's crazy. And then he's not aware. Well, yes,

Unknown Speaker  1:20:53   Hopkins shows up to hang around his cell as Lawrence is sort of straitjacketed. And then we get the story of, you know, how dad became a werewolf, which was he was, you know, out in the Himalayas or something. And he went to a cave, and the Gollum werewolf boy was in the cave. And that werewolf boy bit him and that's, you know, how he became a werewolf. If you're wondering why that's the story. It is similar to the setup of the story in werewolf of London. The original werewolf movie from that was actually before the Wolf Man

Unknown Speaker  1:21:35   sounds vaguely racist.

Unknown Speaker  1:21:36   Yeah, probably.

Unknown Speaker  1:21:38   There's some feral Asian kid man. Goddamnit.

Unknown Speaker  1:21:42   Yeah, it was racist. We'll just assume it's racist if it's old. And this is when we get confirmation in a flashback that dad killed mom as a werewolf. which is surprising to no one. And, you know, we get to look at the Anthony Hopkins werewolf and the Anthony Hopkins Wolf, man, it's it's pretty good. It looks more like it's CG than makeup to me. I you know, it's just for a flash. So who knows? My guess is probably Anthony Hopkins was not keen to put on tons of makeup. So he's probably you know, they probably had to do it like that, because he wouldn't go for it.

Unknown Speaker  1:22:24   Well, it's also where we learn that this is when Larry says to dad, like you should just kill yourself. And he's like, I consider that but life is too good.

Unknown Speaker  1:22:34   Yeah. I like I like Wilson is awesome. Yeah, yeah. But he but he gives Larry a straight razor and it's like, yeah, kill yourself. And then, you know, so yeah, he gives Larry the razor and then he we see Hopkins leaving this the Siloam. And he's he's jamming down on the harmonica as he walks out.

Unknown Speaker  1:22:56   Yeah, I said to even said to you, I was like, Who is playing the harmonica in this asylum? And you're like, that's Hopkins like he's just like do to do on the little mouth harp going down the

Unknown Speaker  1:23:08   hallway. A little john popper?

Unknown Speaker  1:23:13   Yeah, the character is musical. He's always playing the piano. And I know that Anthony Hopkins always plays the piano and like, anytime he can put it in it, put it into a movie, you know, he even writes the the pieces and then so he'll play some noodle on the piano and there'll be like, leave it in. What is that? He's like, I wrote that. And then so though, he does that a lot, because he's pretty accomplished pianist. Oh,

Unknown Speaker  1:23:37   cool. So that's totally cool. Okay, yeah. Nice. All right, cool. Well, that's good to know. Then we go on to what may be the best scene in the movie, which is the very ill advised nighttime asylum lecture. I mean, at first I'm like, why are they doing it this this at night, but then the doctor says like, I'm doing this to show you He won't turn into a werewolf. Yeah. Oh, good. But yeah, so they're in like a you know, theater, operating theater or whatever. And they will and Bernice CEO, and he's in you know, like, it's strapped down chair. It definitely at this point, we're veering into sort of dark comedy, because the the doctor is, you know, lecturing with his back turn to Benicio about how he's not going to turn into a werewolf and how he's just crazy. And Benicio is like, you need to go get out of here. I'll kill all of you. And and nobody's listening. And then so the doctor is lecturing, and he starts to change behind him. And the guys in the theater are like pointing like like, Look, look behind you. And he just keeps talking. Oh, good. It's pretty funny.

Unknown Speaker  1:24:51   Best don't The only thing that bothers me is that he doesn't kill everyone. I want everybody in that room that it should have been a pile of bodies, man, like That was the only minor quibble with that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. All those fuck all those guys.

Unknown Speaker  1:25:06   Yeah, I mean yeah, they did promise everyone would die and not everyone died

Unknown Speaker  1:25:10   and the transformation they do like show his like jaw like snapping and like eath rolling into weird place. Yeah, that was cool it like oh we'll save some weird transformation stuff for this time so that you know you see different anatomy changing

Unknown Speaker  1:25:26   yeah and the first transformation is done in that crypt and it's sort of dark and there's candlelight so you know yeah this is like bright You know, this is a brightly lit Yeah, nothing operating theater and he's, you know, they're really showing you the change.

Unknown Speaker  1:25:40   I think that change looks really good here. Actually, I was I was really like, I was super super into this and just really ready for Larry to fuck everybody up. And it just it looked so much the change. I just I liked it so much better in this in this scene. And I don't know if it was pot, you know, partially because it was leading up to something it was going to be very satisfying. You knew it was going to be

Unknown Speaker  1:26:02   just the sweetest plum. It's all about the scene and wanting to see him go apeshit on all these doctors it's it's a lot of fun. There's a funny moment where one of the one of the doctors is trying to get out and the guy's at the door and another guy's in the door and not letting him out. And meanwhile, Larry's carving through people left and right.

Unknown Speaker  1:26:25   The guy at the door is like like mopping the floors. Yes. Like I think it's locked. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  1:26:33   The most it's not my job.

Unknown Speaker  1:26:35   There's some like slightly poor wirework here where you can tell like when he actually throws the the main doctor out the window. Yeah. And it's just like there's no way to him at all. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  1:26:47   the gravity

Unknown Speaker  1:26:48   so it's out the window instead of actually being thrown. But you know, it's nitpicky, you know,

Unknown Speaker  1:26:54   it's this. It's the satisfying though. It's still all satisfying.

Unknown Speaker  1:26:57   Yes. Yeah. Oh, and I just love that one part where he I think he's got a big chunk of a guy in his mouth. Yeah. And he just he looks at it. That's when he spots the actual doctor. And then the piece of meat just drops and he's like raw.

Unknown Speaker  1:27:11   It looks like a liver.

Unknown Speaker  1:27:12   Yeah. Is that is a great shot, like that is so good.

Unknown Speaker  1:27:16   And they throws the doctor out the window and he lands on the Oh, yeah, that spiked fence, you know, which is always good.

Unknown Speaker  1:27:23   skewered.

Unknown Speaker  1:27:24   Yeah, somebody skewered on a spiked iron rod fence is always a winning proposition. So Larry escapes from the asylum, he basically goes on sort of a rooftop chase scene. They have the seat, they have, you know, the sort of prerequisite scene where he like, gets on a gargoyle and howls at the moon. You know, it's an easy lay moment. But I'm an easy lay for gargoyle perches, pretty much like that. whenever it's in a movie, we get Hugo Weaving has clued in to this and he's sort of chasing him on ground while the Wolf Man is running across the rooftop, we get a really, you know, this sequence really sort of highlights this running thing where he's running, you know, along the roofs, and then he drops into the onto all fours and starts around all fours. Again, this moment feels to me kind of like a superhero movie moment, you know, because he's going from rooftop to rooftop, you know, and I can see why maybe some people you know, who are expecting a more sort of straightforward, grounded horror movie might not like this stuff, but I like big budget spectacle. And this is where the movie is sort of delivering on that

Unknown Speaker  1:28:45   for sure. Why Why would you have an issue with this just because it's too CG and too fantastical. It's just

Unknown Speaker  1:28:50   not a horror movie thing. It's you know, it's it's like a like I said, it's like a big budget, it's more of a sci fi or superhero thing

Unknown Speaker  1:28:59   because to him like jumping off of rooftops, or just to be like a big sort of animal loose because me isn't that what American Werewolf in London ends like that. So,

Unknown Speaker  1:29:09   right, but not done with $100 million in computer. Right, right. Right facts. Okay, I didn't

Unknown Speaker  1:29:15   have a problem with it. I was enjoying it. And I just was like,

Unknown Speaker  1:29:19   you're kind of you know, you're more of a horror fan than a sci fi or superhero movie fan. So like, I

Unknown Speaker  1:29:25   was okay with that. Okay, no, didn't bother me at all. No, I was just like, like, it's been like, it's, it builds up so much to this moment, where I kind of feel like, you know, I know we talked about earlier that, you know, Larry doesn't get to fully enjoy his wolfing. But I feel like for a minute here when he's like going all around London and do I mean, I think he might might be enjoying this rooftops for a minute, you know, like being able to, like okay, maybe this isn't all bad. You know, like there's, you know, the superhuman strength that he has. But yeah, I just, I mean, it's such a such a climax that it comes to With everything that happens at the asylum, and then he's just like, you know, he's just he's just going balls out. So I think they deliver. They

Unknown Speaker  1:30:09   there's a fun sort of little bookend to the scene where he sort of jumps down and he's in, you know, I don't know, Piccadilly Circus or something like that. A train, there's a train car that gets derailed, and it like runs over a dude while it's getting derailed. And you see the guy like, pretty great and falls over on its side, and it's full of people. And the Wolf Man like jumps on top of it. And he looks in through one side window, and there's a really cool shot of him, like looking in through the glass, and then breaks through the glass and like falls into the train car and then start slashing away at people really messing them up. I think the action is pretty well done. Could it be a little better, maybe. But I think for the most part, and this might actually be one area where Joe Johnston was a pretty good choice to come in. Because I don't imagine Mark Romanek would have really cared very much about these action sequences, Drew and Johnston does. I mean, he's not like known for being a great action director, but he's solid, you know, he did Jurassic Park three, which has some fun sequences. So you know, he comes from the Spielberg camp, so he knows what he's doing with action.

Unknown Speaker  1:31:19   And the action is not the sticking point here for sure.

Unknown Speaker  1:31:23   Lawrence goes on his werewolf bender. And he ends up under a bridge as we all have been after a bender by London Bridge, in fact, and he drinks some wakes up in the morning and he's back in his tattered bloody clothes. And he like drinks some really gross water from a puddle. And then we learned that Gwen apparently owns an antique shop or something in London, which is not set up at all. No, but she's she's going to her open up her store for the day. And Larry has I guess, figured out I mean, it says her name on the if you look at the signage on her store,

Unknown Speaker  1:32:06   wait, wait, is this where we learned that? That Mary Poppins and Wolf men are in the same universe?

Unknown Speaker  1:32:10   God? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  1:32:13   Yeah, so she goes into her antique store that hasn't been set up. And he's like sleeping under something in their table or some table. And then, you know, they have a scene, he tells her that he knows his father was the original werewolf and she wants to help him. We get more sort of romance moments here, which don't necessarily

Unknown Speaker  1:32:36   that's in quotes, romance, right? No, but

Unknown Speaker  1:32:39   we get it, we get a kiss here.

Unknown Speaker  1:32:41   All right. It was so hot, I forgot.

Unknown Speaker  1:32:45   Anyway, Hugo Weaving shows up and, you know, he shows her the newspaper drawings of the wolf carnage. And, you know, he basically detains her, you know, they figure out that Larry's been in there and they they think he's hiding behind a mirror. And he like shoots the mirror and, but behind the mirrors like this pan's statue, like a statue of the god Pan. I'm a pan fan. Not a Peter Pan fan

Unknown Speaker  1:33:13   and pan Greek god Pan, one half goat the other half man.

Unknown Speaker  1:33:19   Yeah, so yeah, the mirror gag is cool. In the and now in the unrated cut. That's where we get the scene of Larry walking around London. And there's a paper boy selling papers like Wolf Man kills everyone. And Larry buys all the papers from him sort of weird comedic moment that doesn't really fit but you know, and we get this montage as both of them make their way back to the Blackmore mansion, cheese on a train and a horse and stuff. But poor Larry's, he's just hoofing it the whole way. That's right. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  1:33:55   I'm in through the Moore's looking very for Lorne.

Unknown Speaker  1:33:58   Yeah. And there's, there's like a solid five to 10 shots of him, depending on which version you watch it like just walking. If they didn't do that, everybody like would it just work? could look. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  1:34:12   yeah. You can't when Gwen is trying to find Geraldine Chaplin's gypsy woman. So she does eventually meet her in a barn. And you know, there's this whole sort of scene where she's talking about how much you know, she wants to save him. And it's kind of like uncomfortably anti feminist sort of moment. You know, where it's like I can change him that kind of thing. Like I can change the abusive boyfriend, right oh man, which was a little uncomfortable there.

Unknown Speaker  1:34:46   Also at this time, though, there's there's a total souped up scene going on with Hugo Weaving. Yes, it right in the carriage and loading up a silver bullets. Yeah, he's a believer now.

Unknown Speaker  1:34:57   Yes, he's turned turned a corner on This Wolf Man, this werewolf business and he's ready to like lay down some silver bullets.

Unknown Speaker  1:35:04   Wouldn't all of London have turned believers after a giant Wolf Man just came marauding like in Piccadilly square. I mean come on what's going on fake

Unknown Speaker  1:35:14   fake news Chris fake news.

Unknown Speaker  1:35:18   There were crazy urban myths going around London in that period there is a famous sort of monster called Spring Heeled jack that would like supposedly come jumping down from roofs and like attack people and then jump away into another roof doing impossible things so that kind of stuff actually happened in London and there was never any explanation for it. I'm sure I'm in all parts of the world but they're famous stories from London of crazy crazy stuff like that so so Larry makes it back to the manor just in time for the full moon but poor Kim fail seek manservant is dead. He's a corpse sort of hanging on the wall. So I guess we're to assume that a pop killed him didn't have any more use for me. Yeah, that was

Unknown Speaker  1:36:08   why I wanted to see what happened to him I mean what

Unknown Speaker  1:36:11   well they sort of set him up as a badass so

Unknown Speaker  1:36:14   yeah, he's a great shot and then like way he's just dead

Unknown Speaker  1:36:18   it is off screen and we don't get I mean we can only assume that it you know it was dad we'll find out when he did it you know Yeah, but it's Yeah, he deserved he deserved it on string screen kill if he was going to

Unknown Speaker  1:36:32   die He Larry gets the key off of the dead seek that unlocks his case full of his trunk full of silver bullets. The dog who we haven't mentioned I forget his name but he gets a nice sort of a big dog he gets a nice jumpscare here and one thing I appreciated there's a shit is about to go down in the manner but Larry lets the dog out Yeah, he lets him go

Unknown Speaker  1:36:57   this the wolf and also let the deer go at 1.2 and chase a man instead of a deer yeah

Unknown Speaker  1:37:02   the deer with when they first try to trap him with the deer he doesn't kill the dog

Unknown Speaker  1:37:06   is Samson By the way, Sam Samson Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  1:37:09   Nice. Larry. Here's dad in the parlor playing the piano laying it with bloody fingers. Yes. Little shot. Very Yes. It's the Sikhs blood on his fingers. I don't know. Somebody's blood.

Unknown Speaker  1:37:20   Well, there's a there's a dead guy on like the chair.

Unknown Speaker  1:37:23   All right. It's the it's like the inspectors pal.

Unknown Speaker  1:37:26   You go weavings right hand guy. Yeah, man. We get sort of Hopkins doing the supervillain speech. It's pretty great Hopkins ham. So yeah, they they kind of have their big confrontation moment. Hopkin hits him with the cane that point it's a little bit repetitive just because I feel like we already kind of got the supervillain speech from dad at the asylum and we're just kind of getting more of that Hopkins starts throwing shit around and this is I love

Unknown Speaker  1:37:54   when he throws that chair it's so badass

Unknown Speaker  1:37:57   but but it's totally what you were saying where the wire work is kind of like suspect like it just kind of flying off

Unknown Speaker  1:38:04   but Hopkins man just like the look on his face and the way he's so nonchalantly does it it's ridiculous but awesome at the same time

Unknown Speaker  1:38:11   I didn't I didn't have an issue with any like I just like buy in that these like wolf dudes have all the strings in the world so like anything is gonna be like just like nothing you know? It's like no, I like it in concept it's

Unknown Speaker  1:38:23   just like technically if you're if you're really paying attention to it yes, it looks a little like somebody yanking a wire and pulling a yeah pulling a piece of furniture off exactly right. So they both wolf out and they do the thing where they like charge at each other and like smash chests to definitely a host matrix C type of werewolf wire fight for for a minute, and it ends with Larry. decapitating dad just great good decapitation, it's you know kind of CG looking but it's it's a pretty good death. And doesn't he doesn't his head like fly into the fireplace?

Unknown Speaker  1:39:05   I know he kicks

Unknown Speaker  1:39:06   him into the fireplace okay yeah, he

Unknown Speaker  1:39:08   kicks him to the fireplace right but

Unknown Speaker  1:39:10   the head actually we see the head kind of de wolf Yeah, it starts like going back to dad but another thing about dad wolfing out and then having the big fight which I appreciated because I was able to differentiate as to who was who was the dad shirtless?

Unknown Speaker  1:39:26   Thankfully only as a werewolf Yeah, that's shirtless. So gwenan Hugo show up and yeah, the Wolf Man bites Hugo which is a setup for a sequel that'll never happen. I think they're you know, the sequel was gonna maybe be Hugo Weaving as inspector werewolf or whatever.

Unknown Speaker  1:39:46   I would have watched that.

Unknown Speaker  1:39:47   Yeah, me too. I totally would have watched that. We do get Hugo Weaving in Joe Johnston's next movie, Captain America because he plays the Red Skull. So I guess maybe they liked working together. Who knows. And you know, the manner burns down because that's what manners always have to do in our movies. The Wolf Man chases going out into the woods with the torch wielding villagers following after them because you got to have that universal monster movie. You know, the woods look cool. She's sort of hiding behind some trees and there's lots of fog. And he sort of, you know, chasing, chasing, you see him in the background. He chases or to the waterfall where they had that moment, but not the place where they skipped stones, the waterfall,

Unknown Speaker  1:40:31   where the where the brothers had there was a refuge

Unknown Speaker  1:40:33   refuge.

Unknown Speaker  1:40:35   Yes. He's sort of like, tackles or pushes her down to the ground. But she's like, No, me, you know, me good acting here from I mean, she's good. The whole movie. Oh, yeah. She's great, really good moment here, where she's sort of trying to convince him to kind of recognize who she is, even though he's in wearable form.

Unknown Speaker  1:40:55   I liked that. You could see her in his pupils, by the way that I thought it was. I mean, I know it's kind of hokey or whatever. But I appreciated that.

Unknown Speaker  1:41:02   Yeah, I mean, the whole thing is kind of hokey. But yeah, it's the scene you need to have, yes, the werewolf movie. villagers are coming, basically, you know, he's gonna kill her. But then he, she gets through to him, and then he, you know, he stops, then they hear the villagers coming. And then she shoots him because she's got a gun with her with silver bullets, presumably in it a little. I mean, I would have preferred the cane. But, I mean, why didn't she have the cane? And then, you know, pulled out the knife and stabbed him in the heart or something. And then he, you know, transforms back into Larry and dies in their arms. And they have this sort of, you know, sad, doomed love moment, which, you know, honestly, no one cares about.

Unknown Speaker  1:41:49   I cared. You care? Yeah, I did. Actually, I did. I did actually. Well, that that moment was like, I mean, it was because he, he like kind of he starts to after she shoots him, and then he kind of like turns over to a side. And then he kind of I think he grabs her arm, like a little, a little bit of a jumpscare. But then you can see he's coming back to being Larry. And then he says, that's when he was like, thank you. And he was like, it had to be this way. You know, it's like he was this, you know, now he's tortured guy and I don't know, I I actually didn't care.

Unknown Speaker  1:42:22   I cared. He dies, and Hugo shows up and we see that he's got the cane and you know, again, they're sort of I think it's sort of, you're supposed to sort of think, Oh, this this is he's going to be in the sequel. And then you know, they show the moon and there's more of Emily's voiceover and then we're out. And you know, we've got sort of horror movie style Wolf Man and credits, which are pretty cool. They're, you know, they're stylish and cool.

Unknown Speaker  1:42:50   I can't help but think of, you know, Dracula, where Amina chops Dracula's head off. And, you know, they're this sort of lovers souls that are always meant to be so that makes sense to me that, you know, she should be the one to kill them. But I just feel like they're trying to shoehorn that same story into this by by the Gypsy saying, it has to be someone who loved him. I'm like, Well, does she even say like, oh, for his soul to be fine, or I mean, like, what's the point of that? Like, would he have lived if anybody else shot him with silver bullets? Like, why does it have to be someone who loves him? It just it seems like they're just really forcing a story at this point.

Unknown Speaker  1:43:26   I think. I think they are sort of going to that. Well, they're, you know, I think there's figuring Hey, it worked for Dracula, you know, right. It'll work for the wolf. Man. I definitely think this movie is is trying to capture the magic of in some ways of that Coppola Dracula, that's definitely what it's aiming for. Right. I mean, some people hate the Cobo Dracula, so right. No, it's not like that movies universally loved either. Sure, sure. It's more people like it now than they used to. But I remember back in the day, nobody was hankering for more of that. Well, there's a lot of problems. You know, everybody was just like, Look, you know, sucked, you know, and like, actually, it's, it's not like it was that beloved at the time.

Unknown Speaker  1:44:08   It made money though. That's why they made so

Unknown Speaker  1:44:11   and this movie didn't. So on that note, you know, my sort of feelings about why this movie tanked. Like I said, I think that trailers unfortunately, by showing the CG transformation, I think turn some people off. I think that Benicio del Toro is not the kind of actor or leading man that brings in money, you know, like he's just not. If this had been Brad Pitt or somebody I think it would have probably stood a better chance even though like Benicio, and I know he was really passionate about doing this. I think that probably didn't help. And I think that, you know, when it came out, the reviews were pretty abysmal. And I think that is largely due to the sort of editing, I think that the editing is bad. And I think that sort of hurt the movie critically, I don't know if if they had released, the longer version in the theaters, if that would have been received any better probably wouldn't have been. Because I think like Chris fairly pointed out that I think a lot of the problems are in the script, unfortunately. Yeah. So you know, I don't think it was going to do that well with critics, either way, but if it had been more embraced by fans, then maybe there would have been some word of mouth and it wouldn't have tanked nearly as badly, but even a bigger sort of issue. And I think that we're seeing this with all of these universal these attempts at these universal monsters is that, I don't know if people care about them. You know, like, they've tried now with Wolf Man, they've tried with, you know, a new Dracula. They've tried with the mummy with Tom Cruise. And it's like, there, none of them are hitting it. It's too bad. Because obviously, I'm a fan. I love the universal monsters, but I just don't think that they're big money movies. Now, you know, the recent Invisible Man that just came out, did it smart, because it's a low budget movie. It's contemporary. It's not hinting on your love of the Invisible Man. To sell it. It's, it's just giving you a movie with an invisible man and calling it the Invisible Man. And it's like a, you know, whatever, a $5 million movie as opposed to 100 million dollar movie. So it's, you know, 150,

Unknown Speaker  1:46:32   right?

Unknown Speaker  1:46:34   Yeah, or whatever, if you bring the budgets of these things way down and do these sort of scaled back attempts at rebooting these series and do them, you know, in a modern setting, which isn't to my preference, because I like the cool Gothic setting, but you know, you could probably do Gothic for cheaper than 100 and 50 million How

Unknown Speaker  1:46:56   do you know how much it costs to make shape of water? Because that's, I mean, that's clearly got some creature going on.

Unknown Speaker  1:47:02   Yeah, I mean, but it was probably, you know, 50 million or something, but the shape of water wallet had a lot of design and really rich design and everything. It didn't have a lot of action. The action is what costs a lot of money. Yeah, for a lot of these things, you can have something look great and have it be period and stuff but as long as you're not throwing in like massive action sequences, you know, you're not going to reach that hundred million dollar mark or whatever.

Unknown Speaker  1:47:31   But also how much did Anthony Hopkins get walk away with here? I feel like he you know, he was commanding some money

Unknown Speaker  1:47:39   the costs were high you know, and I think something like shape of water, though it's not like cheap it's not you know, Michael Shannon isn't gonna demand $50 billion

Unknown Speaker  1:47:51   right felt like they weren't holding back on the budget on anything here. I feel like they were just like open the floodgates and just make the best movie we can and

Unknown Speaker  1:48:02   there's a lot of good things here though. I like it you know there was the It looks good like I mean it's just it's it's kind of it's it's a bummer and I you know I would love to see the the universal monsters live on I haven't seen an attempted a creature film and that's why I was thinking of shaper water but now I don't know it's it's it's it's weird because like I said, in the beginning my first watch I was kind of ambivalent about the whole thing and then watching closely, the theatrical and the unrated version. I just came to like to film a lot more

Unknown Speaker  1:48:39   Yeah, I think if you were to see this bar if you were to see this movie, you know at a bar with the sound off you'd probably be like this movie looks incredible. Oh my god the Wolf Man Anthony Hopkins is in this Emily Blunt you think this is the greatest movie and then you'd go home rented watch it with the sound and go wait this movie sucks like what what happened? You know because the production design the cinematography all there so so many of the elements are right but then the crucial elements like the story the editing and the direction fail and that's it's kind of like right down the middle where you got half good half bad and then it just doesn't come together and knowing that you know every everybody it went forward with last minute director change will pull the rug out from any production I think so. Just look at solo or and you know, like I mean, like they brought it into port it's not a terrible movie. I you know, it was watchable.

Unknown Speaker  1:49:39   You mean the Wolf Man or

Unknown Speaker  1:49:40   the wolf? No, the wolf sorry the Wolf Man was watchable and is a fine enough movie but especially with the watching the Extended Cut was a bit of a drag.

Unknown Speaker  1:49:50   So you prefer the you prefer I prefer

Unknown Speaker  1:49:52   the theatrical cut because it just gets to the point, you know, gets to the gore and gets to the but I understand why you would watch the Extended Cut, if you were just you want to luxuriate in the feel of the movie because the feel of the movie is, is good, you know, they got the gothic horror thing, you know, we've gone over it and yeah, I just I think that it's just too boring. And they needed to add some more interesting twists and add a little bit more, you know, modern lies juice to it, yeah, in order to in order to make it stand out.

Unknown Speaker  1:50:23   And then also, to piggyback on that Chris was, you know, I feel like, because, and you brought this up to Sebastian, it's like, Who is it really for? Because, like you said, it's not, like, there's elements of it that aren't something that a horror fan is going to really be into, you know, because of more of the action type. Like, the sequences and it's just, I don't know, I didn't I don't know if it was really defined for a person, so or it could have become like, I had a cult following. He other than, you know, having like, the basis of being the Wolf Man, but the actual film didn't have like that thing that it's like, oh, you know, this is what horror fans like, loves. I mean, you kind of have that because you love the way he looks. But like, if if, you know, if, like we said earlier, if like the transformation could have been kick ass, then like, that would have been something that people were talking about, you know, if it would have been at the transformation, or, like, if there would have been some real hamming it up, like, we would have got like full Hopkins, like, you know, being really Machiavellian, like over the top or something like that. there needed to be something that had people talking.

Unknown Speaker  1:51:40   Well, I think your point of, you know, who is this for? It's not quite, you know, hitting the target for horror fans. It's not quite hitting the target, because there's too much sort of slow drama scenes. Exactly. Or for fans of big spectacle action movies, or sci fi or whatever stuff with big money and big production designs not really hitting that target. And it's not really hitting, it's definitely not hitting the target for people who are into period dramas. If that's what you're going for, so ivory,

Unknown Speaker  1:52:17   it is not

Unknown Speaker  1:52:18   I think, you know, it's, you know, yes. They didn't know who they were making this for, which I think is going to be a theme that we find a lot in this podcast.

Unknown Speaker  1:52:29   They made their made it for podcasters in 2020

Unknown Speaker  1:52:33   to dissect

Unknown Speaker  1:52:35   this will be great for them.

Unknown Speaker  1:52:37   That's who this is made for. All right, well, um, that wraps up our discussion of the 2010. Wolf Man, thank you for joining me. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  1:52:47   yeah, thank you.

Unknown Speaker  1:53:01   That about does it today for Tentpole Trauma. If you like what you heard, check out our social media presence on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. Just look for Tentpole Trauma. That was easy, wasn't it? If you like us, hit subscribe, and leave us a sterling review on iTunes. If you dare. If you really like us, head over to patreon.com and get involved in one of our fabulous tiers. You'll be glad you did. Want to communicate with Tentpole Trauma, send an email to Tentpole trauma@gmail.com we'd love to hear from you. And who knows, one day you may even get your email read on one of our shows. Well, thanks for listening, and we'll see you real soon.

[rainbow-filmnerd]

Another Top 5 Favorite Sanders Sides Videos (5/5)

In honor of the one-year anniversary of me watching Sanders Sides for the first time and becoming a Fander, I’ve decided to count down ANOTHER Top 5 Favorite Sanders Sides videos! If you didn’t see a video you think I should have discussed, be sure to check out the first list!

#1, the top video in this list, is... “Selfishness v. Selflessness” 

(Just a note, I probably would’ve considered “Healthy Distractions”, but this list is made for videos from the main series, and also considering there’s only one Asides video as of May 2020)

GENERAL THOUGHTS

This video was going to be on the original list, but “Embarrassing Phases” edged it out by a hair. So, this second list was an opportunity to bring this one in a Top 5, and “Putting Others First”, which proceeds this video, helped part 1 of SvS take the top spot!

I remember that this was the last video I saw before being all caught with the series. I can’t recall how long it took me to get through the series the first time before “Dealing with Intrusive Thoughts” dropped. This video was just fun to watch, and at the time, I wasn’t aware that there was going to be a follow-up to it. I was “Team Wedding” the whole way through, but that was before I knew about the whole mental health situation. I know that this one is a Fander favorite, and this video is one of my favorites as well.

FAVORITE PARTS/LINES OF DIALOGUE (in no particular order)

Virgil before the opening. That has to be one of my favorite dual Thomas shots in the entire series to date!

“Wha-?! He...! He tampered with the evidence!” *Deceit laughs like a chaotic idiot as he backs away*

Roman unwillingly giving Deceit advice on better disguising. Still a little wary about this information intake, but it did come in handy for Part 2...

“Yeah, when I think of trustworthiness, I immediately think of someone who consistently disguises themselves like a member from Team Rocket!”

Not only do I like how “Psycho Godfather Wars” was an improvised line by Joan, but it was a huge nod to Alfred Hitchcock’s Psycho, Francis Coppola’s The Godfather, and George Lucas’s Star Wars. Where did you guys think “Alfred Hitchcoppolucas” came from?

Deceit’s monologue when he’s at the stand is intriguing. I really want to know what he’s talking about...

“Okay, I can’t believe I’m saying this, but that is so edgy and over-the-top. We’re talking about a wedding here!”

Patton doing his absolute best at being a Lawyer for Thomas.

“Deceit, standing in the spot of one of my four best friends!”

Logan raising his hand, desperately wanted to be called on like some kids in a classroom.

Deceit’s sarcastic comment about not knowing anything about words.

“Maybe Mary and Lee will understand!” “Uh, it’s actually Mary Lee and Lee.” “Not confusing at all.”

A frustrated Virgil throwing his hood over his head.

Poor Logan getting benched by Deceit, but he still provided some input during the case.

Deceit’s failed attempt to impersonate Logan.

“LIES!” That’s the dictionary definition of “falsehood”, so that’s not too far off.

“*hissing* Sssssuck up!”

Virgil’s raspberry noise when Deceit called him to the stand.

The “liar liar” shirt color test.

Roman, after pounding his gavel and freaking the daylights out of Virgil: “*in a calm voice* Go ahead, Patton.”

Patton taking “kangaroo court” as a literal thing.

“Logan, that’s a statement, right?” “Yeah, that’s a statement. I don’t know what he’s talking about.”

Patton saying “hi” to Virgil before he questions him at the witness stand.

“Oh honey, the truth hangs out in the courtroom? Ha! That’s a laugh and a half.”

Virgil’s reaction shot of Logan recalling when Thomas was informed of the wedding.

“No further questions. Smirk.” “Did he just say ‘smirk’?”

The whole scenario Patton set up for Roman when he’s at the stand.

“And now, I would like to call Thomas Sanders to the stand...ers. Nailed it.”

Patton cross-examining himself at the stand.

“Stay with me here. Say you had a stereotypical relationship between a man and a woman.” “You lost me.”

Deceit, don’t you freaking dare say something to upset my favorite stormcloud.

“Why is he still here?!” “Why am I still here?!” “I meant Deceit!” “Whose underwear is this?”

Also the callback/Deceit’s impression of Virgil from the Valentine’s Day video. One of the many reasons I love Sanders Sides is Thomas’s acting range.

“But will they punish Thomas?” *Roman? someone yells offscreen* “How old are you?”

Poor Logan being so out of the loop when Deceit called him to the witness stand.

“I would have stayed in my room if I knew Dad was gonna take us on a guilt trip.”

Butterfingers. And that endcard scene.

“Ooh, said with the confidence of a man who has his hand stuck in a cookie jar, in a cookie factory, and his pants are down, and they’re on fire.” “We get it.” *Deceit cackles like the chaotic idiot he is*

Patton encouraging Judge Roman to do his best.

Deceit trying to get everyone to focus on the philosopher part of Striner when he talks to Patton on the stand.

“The best thing for us to do is sit with a crowd of strangers, watch two people shove cake into each other’s mouths, make out, and tell each other how much they love each other, while dressed up like a butler and a princess.” “You’re darn right!”

Roman manipulating Thomas’s left arm.

“Sorry, he’s still bummed that I went back to brown hair. I said I might dye it again soon!” Regardless, I always give Virgil the purple hair in anything post-AA.

“Objection! Judges don’t object!” “Objection, neither can the jury.”

Roman laughing at Patton’s innocent question on rescheduling the callback.

“I find Thomas winning the callback-. Winning the callback? Is that how that should be phrased?”

Roman spelling his name. He’s so egotistical, but I still love him.

“I’m gonna do a handstand. That’s what I’m gonna do.” *stumbles*

Deceit losing his cool after the courtroom scenario has ended.

“Attack the pinata?” “I believe he’s suggesting that you beat up someone and rob their unconscious body, right?” “... NO!!!!”

Patton’s Max Stirner pun, and Virgil’s reaction shot.

“Okay, so we kiss now, or...?”

Thomas turning to Roman for a nickname for Deceit.

“Glad he didn’t leave it at Dr. Trickle...”

Patton accidentally hurting his hands.

“I don’t feel anything.” Logan, you liar. You do feel emotions.

Virgil interrupting Deceit’s introduction.

“Well, your face ruined my day! So, we’ll call it even.”

Deceit’s multiple arms! Uh... that’s a bit freaky but cool at the same time.

“So, Deceit... If that is your real name.” “It is.” I freaking knew he lied about that!

“He just said he was a liar!” “I didn’t say ‘liar’, I said.... ‘lawyer’. Totally different.”

Roman scolding Deceit to stop lying.

“I’m too emotionally unstable for jury duty. Can I be excused?”

Roman breaking his gavel.

“Count five, did leave his dirty underwear all over the gosh-darn floor, like a gosh-darn animal?!”

Thomas admitting he’s a liar. This poor man, and everything else that followed in the scenario.

“Well, your Honor. What’s your sentence?” “Sentence? I don’t know, the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.”

The extreme close-up shot of Thomas opening his eyes and the sound of Roman pounding on his gavel.

Deceit revealing his emblem and Patton’s first response is to comment on the snake tongues.

“Do you think some logic could be employed to assist with this dilemma?” “Yes, there’s always room for me.” *coughs loudly* “Sorry, there was something in my throat there.”

The fact that Thomas was sitting on the couch with his eyes closed the entire time.

“Oh, for the love of Archimedes, I will never intentionally make a pun!”

Patton and Roman making snake puns together.

“Well, unlike our tardy teacher, I don’t have an issue for strong language.” *Patton covers his ears* “I freaking hated everything about this!”

Patton’s monologue and his exit being like he’s going down in an elevator.

[anditendshowyoudexpect]

There remains a stigma attached to the word ‘breakdown’, when actually it’s a very legitimate response to life in the early twenty-first century. We are not designed for the non-stop world we live in, the pressures put upon us, and those we bring upon ourselves. For young people, especially, those pressures are becoming ever more intense. Social media, the battle for jobs, the speed with which we judge – it’s a lot easier for kids now to be made to feel inadequate in so many different ways. I worry about what any child picks up in their subconscious just through their daily interaction with the world. Societal pressure has got worse for children, and I hope my own experiences will make me better able to help my children tread that difficult path.

*

Billie was magnificent as Rose. I knew she was good at the time but looking back now I can see her absolute brilliance. It reminds me how much we loved working together, which is palpably obvious on screen. Actors work at chemistry; it doesn’t just come with a snap of the fingers, but we were fortunate enough to have something there from the start. We were also professionals and knew how to achieve on-screen banter. What truly amazes me is I know how nervous Billie was at the start. She thought I was some big serious performer and she didn’t have the belief in herself as an actor. She proved herself, of course, to be way better than any of the rest of us. Her luminosity on screen comes from herself, not those around her, and instinctively she made Rose exactly the person she should be. When Doctor Who won a BAFTA for Best Drama, it was Billie for whom I was truly delighted. The reception she got when the show was screened made any lingering reservations on her part about her ability evaporate. It was admirable in her that she had zero arrogance that she could do it. The work she has done since has shown her to be worthy of every accolade that comes her way.

Watching our characters now reinforces what I concluded at the time: Russell enjoys writing more for women than he does for men. If so, I’m glad – there’s been a lot of writing for men. Rose arrives on screen fully formed, one of the strongest female characters of any show of any year, painting a solid line leading directly to Jodie Whittaker. If you think about it, the relaunch in 2005 was actually the chance to create the first female Doctor. Why not do it then? Perhaps, really, we should be looking back on Billie Piper not as Rose but as the Doctor.

*

The attitude exists that, in the relationship between producer, director and actor, they are the adults and we are the children. I agree, actors can behave like children, they can be spoilt – but not this one, and not a lot of others I know. A working relationship can’t operate on a basis of master and servant. If a director, or anyone else on set, comes in and has bad manners, then chances are they’ll hear from me.

This idea that actors can be manipulated and pushed around to suit the agendas of others irritates me. On Shallow Grave, prior to the shoot, myself, Ewan McGregor and Kerry Fox lived in a flat together for a week. We rehearsed, read scenes, and got to know each other. I considered it to be a budgetary and practical arrangement, but after the film came out Danny talked about it as being a social experiment, which I objected to because to me it was like the director playing God. If Danny wanted to conduct an experiment to gauge our reaction and interaction to one another, he should have told us. Had I known, I would doubtless have gained something from the situation. Danny, I expect, would argue otherwise, that the actors wouldn’t get it. Well, I’m more intelligent than that. As it turned out, Danny’s plan was counterproductive because all it did was give myself, Kerry and Ewan a week to realise we didn’t like each other very much and didn’t get on. We had entirely different backgrounds, approaches to acting, and sensibilities. All three of us were also very, very ambitious and insecure with it. Danny would probably argue that that tension then manifested itself on screen. I think that’s bollocks. This idea of pitting one actor against another is dangerous, manipulative and patronising. The film would have been better without all that nonsense.

I’m not alone in feeling dismayed at misplaced directorial interference. Anthony Hopkins once arranged for the cast of Frankenstein to go for a Chinese meal during rehearsals. Anthony received a message from Francis Ford Coppola: ‘Francis doesn’t want you to go for a Chinese meal,’ it read, ‘because he feels it would break the atmosphere.’

Anthony Hopkins’ reaction was simple – ‘Bollocks, we’re going for a Chinese meal.’

*

In a way, Let Him Have It was an example of the British film industry bowing to American values. I hate Forrest Gump. I would like to burn every single copy of that film for the way it treats both mental health issues and women. A sexually free female character who ends up with AIDS? That tells you everything. I wanted to make an angrier, more polemical, more complicated film about a young man who deserved more than just to have the label ‘simple’ pinned to his lapel.

*

That presence, that intensity, that some people, not just Peter, have identified again comes from growing up, like most working class children, with the institutional message, ‘You’re stupid’, as did my father, as did my brothers. If you’re working class in this country, you may be able to shovel shit or push a trolley, but, ‘You are thick. You do not emote.’ ‘You are thick. You are not worthy of a decent education.’ Those central messages of unworthiness become so ingrained that they are self-perpetuating. Come up with a big word and not only are you mocked – ‘Oh, where did that come from?’ – but you mock yourself. So yes, I am intense, and that’s because there’s a lot of fierce concentration on trying to be articulate, rather than that laid-back public-school attitude to intellect that some people seem to have.

*

My dad had definitely shared with me a very visible masculinity. His appearance and actions shouted standard maleness, but the way I viewed him was different. It seemed obvious to me that, at his core, causing his outward behaviour, was a great femininity and vulnerability. My view of maleness was formed from how tyrannical my dad could be and yet how gentle. Through him, I learned to accept that the two things could coexist. I too have a masculinity allied to an intensely female side. Perhaps the difference is I’m aware of it. Dad, I think, found his sensitivity a source of conflict. For many years, I was the same. I resented it. I resented the part of me that made me different. If you are a late-twentieth-century male, traditional working-class, you are not going to like that side of yourself. I wanted to be black and white. I didn’t understand that it is the sensitive side that offers true insight in life – intuition and empathy.

*

Similarly, there’d be no bunches of flowers from Dad – none of that – and he didn’t like dancing – he was too self-conscious, too embarrassed – so Mum would always dance with somebody else.

I once went into my mum and dad’s room and saw a book, The Sun is my Tormentor, a Mandingo-esque novel of love and adventure, by Mum’s side of the bed. Seeing my mother in middle age and her desire for romance moved me deeply. It made me cry. I felt for her emptiness and also because I knew there were greater romantic novels that, because of her conditioning as being unworthy of such literature, she perhaps felt she couldn’t venture into.

*

We wrapped the production on Friday, had a party, and then on Saturday morning I’d arranged to go to Old Trafford with my dad. I was really looking forward to it – and he turned up with the season tickets from two years before. I’m disgusted with myself thinking about it now, but I gave him a bollocking. I was pissed off because I couldn’t go to the game. More than that, though, I was pissed off because he had dementia. That is shameful on my part, but genuinely that is the case. Maybe that shame is something others in the same position will recognise, an occasional presence of a selfish internal voice, one that so desperately craves ‘normality’.

I put my anger at his illness down to coming straight off the back of Flesh and Blood, with its fictional narrative so unflinchingly similar to my own non-fiction life. Amid that emotion, present as he always was whenever me and my dad knocked heads, was that little boy who was frightened of him. I definitely harboured residual anger towards him, a straight reflection of the anger he’d exhibited towards me. Sounds harsh, but he was getting back the temper he taught me. I was in control now. I’m not proud of that, and I’m not saying it’s right, but that’s how I justified it to myself.

I looked into his eyes and could see him trying to process what was going on. He was staring at the season tickets, semi-computing that they were the ones from two years ago, while trying to work out what the situation meant, and what should happen next. For ten seconds, my peripheral vision was blacked out, blinkered. All I saw was this big, fierce bird-like face looking around lost in confusion. I put Dad on the bus home, the route being familiar to him, and walked away. I rang later and explained to my mum what had happened. And then I started crying. I cried for four hours. That night I had a date with my girlfriend. I told her about it and cried all over again. I broke my heart like I’ve never broken my heart since. That moment of seeing his confusion had left a mark – not a bruise, but a deep, lasting weal. Until that point, I’d understood intellectually that my dad had dementia because we’d been told. But emotionally I hadn’t understood it at all. And then there, in the street outside Old Trafford, I’d been given a window into somebody going mad. Becoming demented. That’s the truth of it – demented. It’s a shocking word. We used to talk about demented dogs, and we shot them. When we say dementia, there’s no hiding the truth. It means people are demented. We can dress that up however we want, but there’s no denying the naked reality beneath. That day I had been presented with the stark vision of a man floundering in a maze of his mind’s own making. Not knowing who and where he was. And I’d just been horrible to him. And he was my dad.

*

Esme asked me the other day, ‘Daddy, do you like Mummy?’

‘Well,’ I said, ‘when me and Mummy met, we fell in love and had you. Having two children very quickly is hard on parents in a relationship and then Mummy and Daddy started to not like each other. Now, Esme, as you’ve seen, we are trying to be friends.’

As a child, I would have liked that level of honesty and candidness with my parents, but it was no more part of Ronnie and Elsie than it had been their parents, and so on and so on before. I completely understand that the openness switch was neither at their fingertips nor was it socially reinforced. Emotion could hold a working-class child back, make them unready for what was to come – what they were for. I am thankful to have been given the opportunity to have a more grounded relationship with my children. Before Albert and Esme, playing football, wrestling, doing a crossword or mock-boxing with my own dad were the happiest things I could ever imagine in my life. They go right to the heart of me. Now, I have a new happiness with my own children. And it is a happiness born of honesty.

The blight on that happiness is that I don’t live with them. I know I’ve yet to come to terms with that fact. This book will help, the increasing distance from the hospitalisation will help, but it’s something that will always hurt inside. The legal system could certainly help deliver balance for parents and children involved in separation and divorce. Hopefully, we are in the dog days of the Victorian view of men and women and their role in their children’s lives, which has led to institutional and historic bias. In the twenty-first century, an authentic emotional relationship can come from a man as much as a woman.

*

I wanted to throw a spotlight on the generations, the millions and millions, for whom ‘success’, defined as anything other than the basic survival of themselves and their family, was a concept of which they were denied to the extent that they were chained, leg, wrist and neck, to an institutionally blessed mindset of zero expectation. To those in charge of those institutions, the working class is as it describes. A production line of workers, nothing more, nothing less. People? With character, hope, intelligence, ambition? Forget it. Get back in your box and shut up.

I was asked a few years ago to go on the BBC genealogy show Who Do You Think You Are? I agreed and they started looking into my family tree. It says everything that the project went nowhere. They tugged aside the leaves on those branches and concluded, ‘Nothing to see here.’ Generations of working-class people dismissed. Individuals with their own hopes, dreams and stories. Not army generals, industrialists, vaudeville singers, but factory workers, farm labourers, cleaners, nothing in any way ‘sexy’ enough for TV.

No doubt if someone like me had popped up in the dim and distant, all would have been good. But why? My father had all my abilities, linguistically, physically, and then some. So, no doubt, did generations before him. I get that my life has been far more fulfilled than my father’s and those before him, but for me that makes him the far more interesting story. What do I know of life? I’m not driving stacker trucks all day at Colgate-Palmolive and then going to Bulmers and driving stacker trucks there all night. I’m not cleaning floors in a launderette like Mum. And yet how often is the story of the working class ever told on TV? I don’t mean the dross that is soaps. I mean properly told? The answer is less and less. Working-class stories don’t fit in boxsets. They don’t make money. They don’t fit the business model of selling to global TV. And yet they are the lives that talk to me, define me. They are the lives I find endlessly fascinating.

Christopher Eccleston, I Love the Bones of You

[goblins-riddles-or-frocks]

Schumacher Phantom, Coppola Dracula, Black Swan, Labyrinth, Crimson Peak, IT 2017, Brides of Dracula, Moulin Rouge, Sommers Mummy, Sommers Van Helsing

Schumacher Phantom

never seen | want to see | terrible | boring | okay | good | great | a favorite

A flawed adaptation of an already flawed musical. I’ll never not find it amusing that the self proclaimed Angel of Music can’t carry a tune in a bucket.

The movie’s gorgeous and I’ve watched it... an embarrassing number of times at this point. I first saw it when I was much younger and the issues I had with it then are pretty different from the issues I have with it now.

As an adult, I have a lot of trouble not focusing on Christine’s age and how much older her love interests are, but in an odd way that almost explains her glaring lack of agency (a carryover from the stage musical’s faults). If she’s so unassuming, so reactionary, it’s because of youth, etc. It makes for a fundamentally creepier and unsettling scenario, and actually, I would’ve been fine with the story exploring those themes... if they’d actually ever explored it. Or even deliberately invoked it in the first place.

Still, it’s beautiful to watch, and I definitely love to hate it.

Coppola Dracula

never seen | want to see | terrible | boring | okay | good | great | a favorite

This is my favorite kind of awful film. Amazing cast and designers, grade A director, fantastic effects team... all working on absolute garbage. And hilariously (depressingly) enough, it’s just about the closest to canon adaptation we’ve gotten so far.

Of course the romance was predatory and awful, though as you mentioned before the first half is in some ways an excellent portrayal of an abusive relationship (even though that’s likely not the intended read of it)

I love how crass and awful Van Helsing is in this, even though it’s not really in character for his novel counterpart. He’s the best part of the movie for me. So delightfully awful.

Mina is unfortunately nothing more than a plot device. Her emotions and thoughts are entirely dependent on what’s convenient for the story. Though I unironically like the fraughtness of that one line in the blood sharing scene that goes something like “You killed Lucy; I love you.” It... doesn’t make sense in context but idk the concept of that kind of twisted, toxic feeling is intriguing to me.

Black Swan

never seen | want to see | terrible | boring | okay | good | great | a favorite

It’s been awhile since I’ve seen it but I felt like my takeaway was far different from what the film makers intended. Regadless, Nina’s slow spiraling is difficult to watch and very well portrayed. Though given her work and home situation it’s not at all surprising, and just that much more upsetting to watch.

It seemed especially tragic that (iirc, again it’s been awhile) before the last show Lily reaches out to her and seems genuinely happy for her. All in all I wanted more from the movie, but what I did see was pretty thought provoking.

Labyrinth

never seen | want to see | terrible | boring | okay | good | great | a favorite

It was definitely a favorite as a kid but I’ve grown out of it. The quote, “Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave,” has definitely stuck with me as the quintessential example of a conditional, impossible to satisfy relationship. I can’t say I even remember much about the larger context of the scene but I think about that one quote a lot.

Otherwise it’s a fun, over the top film. I’m still a sucker for that ball scene but the effects are kind of hard to look at now.

Crimson Peak

never seen | want to see | terrible | boring | okay | good | great | a favorite

Yeah I have majorly mixed feelings about Crimson Peak. Killer aesthetic, most stilted script I’ve seen in a long time, appalling underlying message.

I love the concept but dislike every character in the story, except perhaps Lucille who’s pretty close to my heart. It doesn’t feel like a complete story to me, just a hastily cobbled together excuse for gothic romantic aesthetics and putting Doug Jones in more monster makeup.

It (2017)

never seen | want to see | terrible | boring | okay | good | great | a favorite

I’ve read It before but lol I have the worst memory issues so I didn’t actually remember much of the plot going in. So I was somewhat surprised by the opening scene even though I could tell something bad was definitely about to happen. Even despite that clean slate expectation, it just felt too over the top and gory to get a real reaction out of me. I felt the same way about most scenes Pennywise was in. It was just... trying too hard.

The highlight of the film was definitely the scenes between the kids. And the more mundane peril they faced honestly felt worlds tenser than the haunting sequences. There was far more fear in that one scene with Beverly standing in front of her father in the hallway than in the entire film. Or even when the neighborhood bullies were chasing Ben.

Regardless the haunting scenes themselves imo were most effective when Pennywise was not himself visible. (The distorted children’s program, the sink scene, etc) I just... didn’t like him as a villain even though I suppose I get why, thematically, a killer clown preying on children could be compelling.

I had plenty of other issues with it but I can’t think of them off the top of my head.

Brides of Dracula

never seen | want to see | terrible | boring | okay | good | great | a favorite

Technically I’ve seen it. But I can’t remember anything. Generally though, I love Peter Cushing, and even moreso him as Van Helsing. And I’m almost always a fan of Hanmer horror’s specific brand of cheesy.

Moulin Rouge

never seen | want to see | terrible | boring | okay | good | great | a favorite

It’s very silly up until it gets sad. Definitely has a ton of issues and hasn’t aged that well but I can overlook it for the kitsch.

And honestly nothing beats out Tango de Roxanne in terms of sheer cinematic drama.

Sommers Mummy

never seen | want to see | terrible | boring | okay | good | great | a favorite

I just remember liking it when I was younger. Don’t recall many details. Rachel Weiss’ eyebrows deserved better though.

Sommers Van Helsing

never seen | want to see | terrible | boring | okay | good | great | a favorite

I actually only saw this for the first time around a year ago. It’s a great deal of fun and I’ll never get over how the comical brides’ hissing scene is near identical to the Coppola’s films. A good deal of my enjoyment likely stemmed from early 2000s nostalgia, even though I do usually like silly things.

Either way, an Indiana Jones type Van Helsing is just a hilarious concept. And I love how Dracula just went ham the entire time, complete with constant dramatic hissing.

Thanks for the ask!

[demonweasel]

10, 15, 22?

10. do you have a creed? Hmm. To be as authentically me as possible, to know that there is always room for growth, to protect and care for my loved ones, and to be intolerant of people’s nonsense

15.  five most influential books over your lifetime. 

1 - The Hobbit: My mom read this to me when I was in the first grade, and while I don’t have a massive love for Tolkein this probably pushed my interests towards fantasy and Dungeons & Dragons and the like.

2 - The Greatest Batman Stories Ever Told: Printed after the ‘89 movie came out and I was in middle school. I’d picked up comics very casually but not a lot of Batman and I think seeing the range of golden- to bronze-age stuff put comic book reading on the regular basis as a more pointed hobby of mine

3 - IT, by Stephen King: When the original miniseries with Tim Curry came on I was absolutely hooked immediately. I remember being younger and going to Waldenbooks and seeing a massive poster for it when it was released, just a rainy street and a close up of a sewer grate with a lizard or dragon claw hanging out of it. Not entirely accurate to the story but compelling enough to make a kid stare at it and wonder what IT was. After the first episode I ran to the used bookstore in town and bought my own copy (a miniseries version with Tim Curry Pennywise on the cover and whose eyes would follow you wherever you set the book down). I think I may have finished reading it before the series finished and by the time that school year was over I’d probably read at least 75% of the book he’d put out at that point.

4 - Catcher in the Rye, by Salinger: Yes, the stereotypical douchey CIS white boy answer. It’s embarrassing but it spoke to me as a teenager that always felt like an outsider, that was picked on and didn’t know how to talk to his family about things. It’s problematic as hell and I haven’t read it since college but I used to count it as one of my favorite books.

5 - Frankenstein by Mary Shelly: After reading the non-fiction Danse Macabre by Stephen King (a close entrant to this list) I wanted to read more of “the classics.” I’d avoided them like the plague because I needed to be “entertained” more but after finding Dracula a little too dry (again, after seeing the Coppola film, which I loved and yes, some pun intended) I tried that and I loved it. I read it a few more times in college and got more out of it that way too but it was a great stepping stone.

Honorable mention (because I can’t remember what book it was) to the first book I read by Elmore Leonard, who made me go “Oh wow, I want to write like this.” Maybe Get Shorty? I want to say that but it feels wrong. And yeah, that covers maybe to my mid twenties? 😅

22.  list the top five things you spend the most time doing, in order.

- Sleeping, obv. Sometimes I sleep in too late but I feel like since I left my job I’ve been feeling so much better so it’s worthwhile.

- Social Media. I have an absolute love/hate relationship with it that I could write so much more about but it is what it is

- Talking/Watching TV with my girlfriend. She works from home a lot too, especially now that I’m home pretty much every day. I was honestly a little worried about how much time we were spending together and that we might get sick of each other but there is no pressure when one of us needs/wants to be alone and we have ample space for that. Almost six months in and so far so good.

- Writing. A little worried this wasn’t going to make the list 😅

- Reading. Usually comics on my tablet but I need to get back into the habit of reading more prose fiction.

Thank you so much for the very thought-provoking questions!

identity ask.........oh shit

[thecorteztwins]

Ok so @shattered-catalyst since you asked here’s some stuff on the OCs that I’m developing >.> Under a cut cuz long eta: oh and @sammysdewysensitiveeyes since you asked for more too!

ASHTI YILMAZ 20something, Yazidi Kurd from Germany, receptionist at a ritzy spa Tender, wistful, melancholy, manipulative, explosive. Far more emotional than logical, and quick to let her bleeding heart and overpowering passion take her reins, whether in sympathy or anger. Easy to hurt, tease, and rile. Prone to sulking, pouting, and brooding, but can shout too when pushed far enough. Has strong feelings, but these make it hard for her to take a strong stance on complicated matters, since her emotions get pulled both ways. Always feels a little out of place. Beats herself up over little things. Fancies herself the mom friend but actually needs a mom friend. Moody, immature, unconditionally supportive. Will say awful things she doesn’t mean in anger and prone to emotional blackmail when upset. Fatalistic, often just accepts that powers that be must have a plan, but that doesn’t mean she has to like it. Warm but wary; always friendly to new people externally, but inside she's on the lookout for any sign they dislike her or are making fun of her, which sometimes leads her to read too much into innocent remarks or innocuous expressions. Feels more experienced than people from more privileged lives and groups, but also like they’re smarter and more accomplished. Tendency toward tortured bad boys and getting her heart trod on. Ashti definitely has very normative ideas about gender. Nothing exceptional, just common generalizations like women are more emotional, little boys like the physical play, men can be total brutes whereas women attack with cattiness, etc. Ashti prone to romantization of bad relationships, like that jealousy means passion, control means protection, and sticking together through all your fights proves how strong your love is instead of calling it quits This not only means she is likely to get into and stay in toxic relationships herself, but give her friends dangerous advice to do the same when they come to her with romantic troubles One of her biggest flaws is she doesn't know her flaws. She thinks her flaws are being insecure, emotional, and loving too much. And these aren't untrue. But she's missing a whole lot of the less flattering, less endearing aspects of her personality. She’s always on the side of the common masses against those in power, but it’d be a lie to say she didn’t watch Sofia Coppola’s “Marie Antoinette “ on wistful repeat or secretly fantasize about somehow being the lost Princess Anastasia Romanov. MARAT ALIBEK 32, businessman from the city of Taraz in the Jambyl region of Kazakhstan - Seems confident and self-assured but also very businesslike at first meeting, playful and silly when with people he considers friends (while still being daring and upbeat) - Very sociable and sophisticated - Wants to be a heroic type of person but has never had occasion to put this into action - Has a fiery, go-getter personality, he charges forward and seldom stops Strength: Organizing and multitasking at work, gutsy and takes chances (can also be a weakness), loves a challenge (but only if he wins in the end), always knows what time it is Weaknesses: Impatient, competitive, doesn't want to look weak or lose face, sore loser, Raising your voice and being argumentative is common in business negotiations in Kazakh, even expected, but it does not go over as well in the US. He knows this, he tries to make sure he doesn't do it, but he might still do it and fuck up a meeting big-time. Has a small stutter, about every 7th word or so. It's not because he's shy or stressed, it's just how he speaks. Always has been. He was in speech therapy from ages 4 to 10, and this is as good as it's getting, and he learned to get over worrying at the tender age of 13, so everyone else can just chill too. He's the one who has to live with it, ok? The way he learned to be okay with it because when he was 13 was when kids really got MEAN about it, and weirdly, that galvanized him to be defensive and accept himself proudly in defiance, when previously he had been embarrassed. That tells you a lot about him right there. Since childhood, he's always had an imaginary  alter ego of himself as a traditional warrior on horseback, flanked by a pet eagle and snow leopard. TENZIN ALTING 38, art dealer/curator at a gallery, British-born with a Dutch father and Tibetan mother - Aloof, alluring, witty, smug and self-assured, and her confidence makes her fearless, adventurous, and optimistic, always ready to take risks, meet people, and try new things. This also means that she's prone to biting off more than she can chew, and having no idea how to cope when she's in over her head---though she can fake it quite gracefully! - Likes changes, challenges, rolling with the punches, and coming out on top flawlessly every time as she's become accustomed to - She really hates it when very intelligent people spout very ignorant views. They’re harder to argue with because they’ve got the brains to make their idiocy almost seem to make sense so there’s the peril of coming off looking like the dumb one herself if she isn’t just as keen and quick with her rebuttal…and if she’s not, then she feels not just like they’ve won, but that their viewpoint has scored a point. - She is independent to a fault. The fault being, she hates having to check with anyone about a decision she makes, or consider their input, or how her actions will affect them. Thus, she avoids these situations, but when she can't, and has to consider these things...she often just doesn't. Sometimes she genuinely forgets because she's so used to being a free agent, but sometimes she just deliberately disregards these things and expects the other person to just deal with it. But her independence also means that Tenzin owns her mistakes, her being the only one making her decisions means she’s the only one accountable for the blame INDRANI “RANI” YUAN 37, from Mauritius with a Tamil Indian mother and Hakka Chinese father Rani majored in environmental science and is an environmental engineer for a land development firm - A bright and driven go-getter - Persistent, practical, touchy, determined, responsible, all-business, no-nonsense - Hard time showing affection even to those she loves, she tries to express it through material means such as tickets to something they like - She is stingy and shrewd, and is not generous at all for the most part. The exception is people she's close to and genuinely cares about; she might spend downright extravagantly on her loved ones. Similarly, she's not charitable UNLESS it's for a tax write-off or it's to a cause she's truly invested in, usually something environmental. So she's not a total Scrooge, she just prioritizes. This does, unfortunately, often make her quite cold to those in need who don't make her cut. - Low-key sassy and assertive, glad to let fools fuck up and then not say "told you so" afterwards but DEMONSTRATE it - Uses bad humor in tough situations - Responsible, dependable, reliable - Craves stability and routine, and it's hard to find jobs in ecology conducive to that, which is why she worked for a company rather than something like a Fish and Wildlife Department - She is outspoken, argumentative, and has a hard time letting go of her positions even when she's internally realized they're flawed or wrong. It's a pride thing. She doesn't want to admit she was in error, especially if she has to admit it TO someone else. For instance, if she's having an argument with someone, and they bring up points that she's never considered, and she realizes "oh shit, they're right about this", her reaction is to feel threatened and thus dig her heels in even deeper in defense of her stance, even though she knows that's asinine. - She also has an easier time forgiving someone for being wrong than she does for being right, mainly if they proved her wrong in the process. - Rani tends to assume the worst, especially about people, especially about their responsibility and capabilities. She just doesn’t trust anyone but herself to do anything right. - She might be pessimistic about people, but she's positive and passionate about her work. She loves the environment and believes she can make a difference. Rani majored in environmental science and is an environmental engineer for a land development firm. It's extremely difficult for her to make her case to her superiors whenever it comes to making ecologically ethical decisions with their activities, but that's why she stays with the job; she doesn't believe anyone else could do it - Plays snooker. Takes more skill than billiards. KWANG 22, college student I guess? Recent grad? Born in Thailand in the Korat province but parents moved as soon as they could afford it, felt she’d have better opportunities and accomodations in the US, as she was born without legs * Kwang is a common Thai nickname for girls meaning "deer". In Thai culture, children are given very long formal names but then also a much shorter, usually-unrelated nickname which they are almost always called by instead. Her full FORMAL name is Khakkhanang Kannokkorn. Understandably, she typically introduces herself as Kwang Kan. It might seem a bit cruel to call a legless baby after an animal known for its graceful running and leaping, but to her parents it was a symbol of hope for her. * Very active, strong likes and dislikes, is social and outgoing and loves being liked by people. Gregariously informal, laidback attitude she's developed that helps put people at ease, since folks tend to get uncomfy when they meet her since they don't know how to act with someone with an obvious disability, how to be polite, how to avoid offending her, etc. So she presents herself as someone who isn't going to be easily offended. Which, she's not. Kwang is a chill, chill girl. However, she's also assertive, and not easily pushed around. She doesn't make a big deal of it unless pushed, though. That said, she never says things “Yes ma’am” more like “okay, since I have time” and “oh, alright, I kinda felt like doing that anyway” when told to do something. Just to make it clear she's doing this because she wants to, not because someone said so. She's got clear boundaries. She's also very confident in herself, and seldom feels the need to justify her tastes, opinions, or decisions to others. She's the girl who would like Twilight and One Direction without shame or the need to say she was only enjoying it "ironically". Likewise, she extends the same courtesy to others; you don't need to convince her that it's fine for you to like something. She won't lie if she doesn't like it, but she's also not making a judgement call on you for it. You read that bad fanfic, girl, if that's what you like, and don't let anyone make you feel bad for it. Snobbery of any sort sucks, even the counterculture kind, and she rolls her eyes at people who proudly complain how "weird" they are compared to "boring normal people" like what are you thirteen? If all you've got to define yourself is being unlike the norm, then that's still letting the norm define you. * Kwang ditches negative people, including those who treat others badly(even if they treat her well) but also those she couldn’t support through a bad time. * Strengths: Great sense of direction/good navigator, you know how when you’re having problems with someone but they’re really close to you, like your best friend, so you don’t know how to bring it up because you’re afraid of what will result? She’ll do it for you, she'll walk up to them and tell them what the issue is, but she still thinks you should do it yourself. Very open romantically and tends to make the first move with no nerves or hesitation * Likes: Fruit salad, phone charms, beach/swimming toys (especially huge ones you can ride), old-school polaroid cameras/photos, big colorful ear-covering headphones, stickers on her stuff, obstacle course shows (ex: American Ninja Warrior) *Dislikes: Long discussions, people trying to make something "all philosophical" when it doesn't need to be or are using big words in an attempt to sound smarter than everyone else (brevity is the soul of wit, dude), when people think she watches extreme sports out of some sad wistful longing for legs like what she can't just like seeing people kick ass snowboarding?, most dairy (ice cream and frozen yogurt being the exceptions), butt chins (she feels bad about this because she knows better than anyone you don't get to choose stuff like that but THEY JUST BOTHER HER) Kwang doesn’t have patience for people who clearly just enjoy being sad or who she feels are trying to manipulate others into “bringing them out of their shells” for attention. Like, you say you don’t wanna go to Prom? Okay then, she isn’t going to try to convince you, she’s just gonna go have a good time herself. What, why are you sulking? Is that what you WANTED? Yeah, she’s got no time for that DIONNE GOLD Black trans woman, 28, Customer Service Rep for a luxury goods boutique , comes from Trinidadian-American family in Naranja, Florida * *Named self after the Ancient Greek word for a goddess (dion), Gold for the connotations of beauty and glamour and VALUE. * Fastidious, fussy, perfectionist, uptight, a Virgo in Leo's clothing * She puts on a bold, confident front, all glamor and poise, but it's not the real her, she's so much softer and unsure than she tries to seem * Her real flaw is fear, specifically fear of rejection and vulnerability to being rejected; she was afraid at the prospect of being rejected by her family, so she ran away. She wants to reconnect with them but is too afraid to, for the same reason. She puts on a false personality, because she's scared of the real her being rejected. It goes on and on. And she’s got good reason for it. But she still managed to embrace who she is and go through with everything she needed to feel like she was finally herself. * Strengths: Great memory, great poker face, hard worker, incredible patience, very reliable * Weaknesses: Over-critical and judgey, pouty and passive-agressive when she has a problem with something or someone instead of addressing it head-on, uptight and easily bothered by small things, needs everything just-so. - Poor spender; after four years of denying herself even the smallest of non-essential purchases in order to save for HRT and SRS, she's now splurging to make up for her years of asceticism. She especially can't resist things like dresses, shoes, and jewelry; after not ever getting to be a little girl, she's going through her long-overdue princess phase now, and can't seem to stop. - Really wants to comfort her friends and will always try, but she's bad at giving advice to friends, her reaction is mostly to just go "there there" and agree with everything they say when they talk about their problems. - She is also bad at keeping secrets if they’re something that causes her guilt, such as concealing something she feels is immoral or that the other person should own up to, but good at it if it's a secret that could put them in danger if others knew (since she's used to keeping THAT kind of secret about herself) This one didn’t make it on to the sketch, but here’s another: AVERY RUE UNDERWOOD White American trans girl, early 20s, goth She can recite "Cassilda's Song" by heart, and talk for hours about the racism and insanity of Lovecraft, and how both these things are misunderstood and misconstrued equally by his devotees and detractors alike. Her icon is Mommy Fortuna from The Last Unicorn, who chose her death and kept it close to her, caged and hers til the end when it tore her to pieces--welcomed by her with open arms, still hers, hers forever. Collects antique silver plated hair brushes. She thinks a lot about how everyone has a life and internal thoughts and we just don’t know we can never really know another person. She likes to go to lonely personal blogs and Twitter accounts and the like and just follow. She rarely “likes” and even more rarely comments, she just wants to watch this little window into a random life that doesn’t have an audience to be performing for like the big accounts. Maybe it’s creepy and voyeuristic but she feels such a strange tenderness for these screen names that she never speaks too. They’re human souls, every one of them. And maybe there’s no God to hear them, but she does. Studies existentialist, nihilist, and absurdist philosophy. She learns less towards the middle, more towards the other two. Morbid and macabre she might be, but she's an idealist at her core. Some of her other interests include obscure mental disorders (Cotatd’s delusion, Capgras syndrome) , photos of the decomposition process, and the historical use of plants as both cures and poisons. She feels kinship with carrion-eaters like buzzards and hyenas, society sees them as disgusting and evil but they play an integral part in the ecosystem She believes that existence precedes essence. So she doesn't believe she was born with a female soul or anything like that. She just doesn't believe she was born with a male one either. Her family is best described as "neutral" in terms of acceptance. They're not at all hateful, and barely questioned her decision, but they're not involved closely enough with her to be really called "supportive" at all. Everyone in her clan, including herself, are too wrapped up in their own lives to really care one way or the other about each other's, and she's good with that. She prefers it. She'd rather not be interviewed, even from people trying to be helpful; this is deeply personal to her and she finds it invasive. She is pretty good at “being the bigger person “ and not escalating things in a conflict, if only because she just doesn’t give enough of a shit to. She tolerates getting yelled at, even undeservedly, really well. She’d be brilliant in retail, she can cope with Karens all day long and not snap or get worn down. Apathy is a hell of a shield. She doesn’t hold on to people, this is good and bad. On the one hand, it means she escapes jealousy and co-dependency and needing anybody. On the other hand, some people feel it makes her disloyal or uncaring. But she's an island, and she accepts the transience of life. She doesn’t seek outside validation or feel the need to be seen as right even when she knows she is. This has allowed her to avoid a lot of arguments and stress. She might not fear violence from a philosophical viewpoint, but she sure does in her natural animal instincts. This makes her edgy around certain demographics. Straight men, religious people, right-wingers, those sorts of groups. You could argue that she's unfairly stereotyping them, much as others have unfairly stereotyped her and people like her. Sure, fair enough, but she'd still rather avoid getting her head bashed in as much as she can. It's not that everyone in these groups is a violent bigot, it's just if there's going to be a violent bigot, they're statistically more likely to be in these groups. Like when was the last time you heard of a transgender woman being murdered by a liberal lesbian atheist, right? So yeah, she's stereotyping. But she'd rather be alive and a "reverse bigot" than fair-minded and dead. She's not THAT much of nihilist. Avery’s self esteem is best defined as contrarian, taking pride in herself more based on what she’s not rather than what she is, and playing Devil’s Advocate to her own ego. She’s the first to admit that not being something bad is not the same as being something good, and in fact tends to disdain those who do the same as she does and praise themselves simply for not being fascists or bigots or abusers, but it seems like the best she can successfully argue to herself. LIKES: * Urban legends, occultism, cryptids, preserved oddities, the unknown * Deep seas, the night sky, vast storms, huge caves, eternal forests * The crowded isolation of the city at night * Abandoned buildings * The sigh and feel of old velvet and raw silk * Deep sea creatures and weird starfish and giant squids * Hozier, The Sisters of Mercy, Cocteau Twins, Black Tape For A Blue Girl, lo-fi, dreampop, shoegaze, every Lumineers song that has a girl's name as the title, and obscure local alternative bands that the art college radio stations only play late at night * Djarum Black clove cigarettes * Symbolist paintings (especially "Salome" and "Sisyphus" and "The Sin" by Franz Stuck) * Angela Carter, Caitlin R. Kiernan, T.K. Kingfisher, and Nabokov's lesser-known novels like Pnin and Pale Fire DISLIKES * Pettiness * The smell of smoking meat, it makes her nauseous, and she's never been able to stomach a steak * Trimmed lawns and pruned gardens * The hypocritical pretentiousness so commonly found in any “alternative “ scene * So-called "horror movies" that are really just gross-out torture porn * Creepypastas that over-explain or don't know when to end * People who pride themselves on "sticking to their guns no matter what" as that seems to her to just be another way of saying they never listen to other opinions or new information because they're so sure in their own rightness * People who forget that everyone else has as much depth and life as themselves, you’re not the protagonist and these aren’t NPCs in a game * Avery is an Aquarius and even though she doesn’t believe in astrology, she still likes reading about it, and it bugs her that her sign is classed as “positive “ and “masculine" * Misuse of the term "social construct" WEAKNESSES * Gives up easily; her transition is really the only difficult thing she's ever stuck with * Navel gazing, over-thinking, gets lost in her own head * Can't make a hard decision quickly * Insomniac * Loses track of time easily * Messy slob, her apartment is DISGUSTING, don't ever be roomies with this girl * She doesn't own a car, but she can drive. She just can't park. She's terrible at parking. She goes in crooked, she goes over the line, she has to pull out and go in again a million times to get it right. STRENGTHS * Comfort with solitude, doesn't get lonely * Equally at ease with both existentialism and nihilism * A veritable whiz with subway routes and schedules * Doesn't sweat the small stuff * Hopeful at her core