#but also i'm seeing so much misinformation and weird discourse...

[dreamings-free]

January 25, 2024 by Tristan Kirk, Courts Correspondent @kirkkorner

A woman accused of stalking Harry Styles has been remanded in custody after allegedly causing serious alarm and distress to the pop star.

Myra Carvalho, 35, is accused of harassing the former One Direction singer in an alleged incident on Monday this week in north London.

She appeared at Highbury Corner magistrates court on Tuesday, and was sent for trial at Harrow crown court with a hearing set for next month.

According to the charge, Carvalho is accused of “stalking involving serious alarm or distress”, with her actions allegedly having “a substantial adverse effect on his usual day-to-day activities”.

Carvalho, who has been staying at a backpackers hostel in Earl’s Court, did not indicate a plea to the charge as she was remanded in custody by District Judge Denis Brennan. She is next due in court on February 20.

The incident happened shortly after Styles had returned from a Caribbean getaway with girlfriend Taylor Russell and TV presenter friend James Corden.

In 2019, Styles was stalked by Diana Tarazaga-Orero after offering to buy food when he saw they were sleeping rough near to his north London home.

Tarazaga-Orero pushed money and notes through his letterbox and tried to grab Styles as he went out for a jog.

Styles told a court he had been left “scared” by the attention and was forced to upgrade his security, including installing a panic lock on his bedroom door.

Tarazaga-Orero then, in 2022, broke a restraining order by barging into Styles’ home.

Styles has not commented publicly on the alleged incident with Carvalho, but was reportedly left “shaken up”.

He told Willesden magistrates court in 2019 that he had previously tried to live a normal life and been approachable for fans, but the incident with Tarazaga-Orero left him feeling wary and needing to upgrade his security.

[burningfudge]

(I saw your earlier post about this and I wanted to share something with the anon.)

Like I've learnt that I don't have to watch the mcu projects that I'm not intreasted in and have no intention of getting into like at all.

As a comic fan though I think we are more than valid to have a pop at people who are blatantly rude/racist/spreading misinformation because they refuse to even read the comics (I feel so freaking horrid for the comic Wanda fans).

Disney exploits and steals from comic creators and hardly pays them a penny for their hard earnt work and the mcu fandom really don't get that and rather be horrible bigoted individuals than acknowledge that.

I think as both an mcu fan and a massive fan of the comics I've kind of realised I can just enjoy the product and be and healthy consumer and still be able to criticise the badness that goes on!

This is very true. I also feel like the type of criticism matters because there’s useless criticism (what I assume that anon was asking) like some people calling Peggy Carter a Nazi because she was the Director of SHIELD and SHIELD was eventually infiltrated by HYDRA, which I think is really dumb. Like come on. Just say you don’t like Peggy because she gets in the way of your ship instead of jumping through hoops for a justification. Also do these people not know that Operation Paperclip was a thing that happened in real life? And the same people also hating Sharon Carter even though she’s the leading woman in Captain America comics.

And also there’s only so much discourse I can take about MCU Peter being Iron Man Jr or not. Like it’s 2024, give it a rest. I’ve been hearing the same recycled arguments since 2017.

However, there’s also very valid criticism like erasing Wanda and Pietro’s background that some MCU fans don’t want to listen to. Or whatever weird decisions are going on with casting RDJ as Doctor Doom.

The misinformation is so crazy. Just right now I’m seeing so much nonsense about Billy Kaplan, like guys just read Young Avengers Vol 1 and Children’s Crusade. It’s not that hard.

[maddiviner]

i think it's okay to leave out the UPG disclaimer when someone is acting like their UPG is universally correct. especially when it's as wildly blatantly ahistorical and made-up as the hecate person's (don't remember her username because i IMMEDIATELY blocked her). also when you use your UPG to demand other people practice a certain way

I thought about it a bit after I posted that.

IMHO? None of what she posted counts as unverified personal gnosis. Reason being that UPG is by definition the kinda thing that you can't disprove, exactly. If you're making false claims about objective, known history, that doesn't count. That's just called lying, either to yourself, or other people, sorry.

UPG is also personal. It's one thing if other people find your UPG compelling and join in on their own. It's also, IMHO, appropriate to share it if you're comfortable. If you're trying to force it on other people as the absolute truth, it really stops just being your UPG, and it's a jerk move. This is, obviously, especially true if the claims are ahistorical nonsense (which, again, doesn't count as UPG).

How I view this might piss people off, but I'm going to break down my views. I'm open to discussion of course, but this is just how I use the phrase ("unverified personal gnosis," I mean).

Some different UPG-ish things I've heard over time...

A certain Goddess considers me Her daughter in a spiritual/metaphysical sense. She expects certain things of me.

Humans all contain a lil piece of the Divine. I will work on connecting with that by prayer/meditating/whatever.

Reincarnation is real (or not real).

After death, I will join my loved ones in the Summerlands/etc to rest or something similar.

Everything above is, IMHO, UPG. I say that because it's unfalsifiable and personal. It's not ahistorical, nor does it conflict with physical reality. And, in the situations where I saw the above comments, it wasn't presented as absolute fact.

Some things that definitely don't qualify as UPG for the reasons I've mentioned...

Rather than originally being a Greek Goddess, Hekate was actually Scottish-Irish human woman who was murdered by men. (This was the original claim by the OP, actually.)

Jesus revealed to me in a dream that the earth is actually flat. The truth is being concealed by elite reptilians.

The Christian holiday of Easter connects to the Sumerian Goddess, Ishtar. Ancient pagans worshiped Her in springtime with eggs and bunnies.

I was burned at the stake in Europe as a witch in the 1700s along with the rest of my Wiccan coven. I reincarnated as a witch again.

None of the above is UPG. It's misinformation instead. You can look at historical/scientific sources and prove it's inaccurate.

I found the concept of UPG hard to grasp initially. I think some others do, too. Many of us are coming from or steeped in more organized religions.

I don't think a lot of them, at least in the pervasive American sorta Christianity, have anything like UPG? I mean, I didn't see much of it. So, it's kinda been a new concept for some, and a lot of us have to feel our way around it a bit.

Another thing I wanna add? UPG isn't always healthy or good even if it does quality as UPG. Some ways of thinking about the world just work better, I guess, and that applies across the board. A lot of UPG tends to be very fluid and adaptable, I've noticed, which I think is good.

The Hecate person is kinda funny because she just posted this huge spiel about how she knows she's doing it right now that she has "haters" and called us all ignorant "heathens" (her words) for not accepting her divine truth straight from God's Hekate's mouth.

The idea of someone who claims to be pagan using "heathen" as an insult is just... weird. I know there's probably some kinda discourse around the word but... still.

Someone I talk with on Facebook commented that it's weirdly Protestant?! Similar to how Jesus gets portrayed. You've got a divine being that was, uhhh, actually from a completely different culture being portrayed as Scottish/Irish, Greek roots being erased. Said divine being was somehow also incarnated as a human, and martyred? And then we have a prophet, too! Sounds super similar to me, too, now that I start to think about it in those terms, but I didn't notice before.

[mallowstep]

<you aren't obligated to post this anyways but i do request you don't if it sends as an off anon ask Somehow because idk if it would cause Discourse and i don't super. want that>

honestly hard agree w your tags on the queerhollyleaf post. like. i'm not necessarily proship! i'm not necessarily anti! i personally think it's a topic that can't be narrowed down to yes or no and uhhh a lot of the fandom just doesn't seem to understand that. it's like you (the general you) see one word and the part of your brain that controls complex thought goes dark

okay! i tried to write an answer by myself earlier and it wasn't working so now we're both going to do it. everyone say hi mari. mari says hi everyone. for those of u who don't follow us on main: we = matthew-and-mari, i = matthew, and "m: ..." = mari. not that that's TERRIBLY significant, but so you know.

also for context, my tags were:

✨✨✨unless it’s not proship in the sense that I refuse to label ‘being a reasonable person’but that might just be mexd

sorry that copied kinda weird.

okay so anyway.

we're going to only be discussing fannish media because that's the main focus of this blog. other topics can be forwarded to @fencesandfrogs yadda yadda yadda. we're all here for the fic, aren't we?

m: i do not write fanfiction i am here solely for making sure matthew doesn't go off topic again

right. anyway.

we definitely feel that the conversation can fixate so much on this false axis it can even become harmful. we firmly believe many antis are only antis because of social pressure and a lack of understanding of the proship opinion. we also don't feel the proship position is really wrong. "do not harass people, and tag work responsibly," is our position and it is the proship position, as we understand matters.

that said, there's so much misinformation about what it means to be proship that (a) i don't feel super comfortable identifying as proship (influenced by bad actors as well) and (b) saying you're proship activates this hard wall in a lot of people's minds. we saw people's opinions change while they were following us, but as soon as we explicitly said we weren't an anti, those people unfollowed us. they're within their rights to do so, ofc, and we don't follow up with them, because that would be stalking and weird, but the point is, it's like a magic word.

i don't run this blog to change people's minds. ship discourse has ALWAYS been toxic, as long as we've been on the internet. before it was the modern incarnation of pro/anti-ship, it was voltron bullshit (for us --- not being able to partake in fandom because of the toxicity is actually why we stepped away from fandom for several years), and before that, it was something else. nonsense internet discourse isn't new.

but this is a particular flavour of nonsense that we are frustrated by. five-or-so years ago, our opinion was the default, neutral position. people understood that you tagged content appropriately, that you didn't put nsfw of work aimed at children in the main tags, and that was it. you didn't tag nsfw for mlp as mlp, and you put a content warning up, and that was that. yes there's nuance here, we're not going into all of it.

m: matthew's wrists WILL regret it also we said most of this in the post about abusive rare pairs

so we feel like we shouldn't have to label that.

also, not labelling ourselves means people can't assume our positions. for example, when i'm not trying to be problematic to either (a) piss someone off/out of spite/etc or (b) explore themes, i usually choose to write out problematic content. the example i like to use is that if i want to write moth/misty, then in that fic, misty was never moth's mentor. i might not say/explain it, but it's true. because apprentice/mentor makes me really uncomfortable. so they just never have that relationship.

uh. mari is reminding me that antis usually don't support writing shit out and ALSO that's not even an opinion.

right.

what we mean is, people have a lot of Ideas about what it is to be proship. we don't see ourselves as proship to begin with (see: our opinion is the opinion the average person on the street would have, trust us, we've asked), and we don't want people to make assumptions about our opinions based on that.

at the end of the day, we don't like using pro/anti ship as terms. for clarity, we will use them, but we prefer to think of the average fandom member as a reasonable person, and call antis puritans.

because that's what they are.

we want to restate that our opinions on published media are a lot more complicated and nuanced (and we also think that's another thing this discourse often misses: fanworks and published media are not the same), just because it feels disingenuous to NOT make a point of that. we don't really care if someone is writing fanfic smut that glorifies abuse: we do care if a book is published that glorifies abuse.

anyway.

we're going to leave it there, but basically, yeah. pro/anti discourse is a really ugly flavour of internet nonsense discourse that not only do we have no desire to be in, but fundamentally do not understand.

m: no this is true. regularly we will see something and not understand how someone could hold that belief/opinion/etc. like, matthew finds these posts and we look at them and can't make sense of them. neither of us can remember an example, but yeah.

so, yeah. we feel you hard.

<3

[synclu-satan]

I recieved this on Tellonym today and idk I wanted to share with the class.

“why do you welcome endogenic systems”

In my bio on Tellonym, I state that I support MOGAI and that endogenic systems are welcome on my page. They don’t let you make the bio very long on this site, so there’s not much to that portion for us, we had other things to say. I also received a Tell asking what MOGAI was and answered that, but that’s not really the point of this blog so I probably won’t go over it. It was interesting, however, that I got 3 Tells in quick succession asking about 2 things in my bio and the other about my pinned post. Nobody asked about that post before ever, I figured it was a dead joke tbh.

Anyway, I answered the Tell.

“people know themselves better than other people ever could. if someone says they're plural and/or a system, i believe them. origin matters in some ways, but not in all ways there's a lot of overlap in experiences between traumagenic and endogenic systems (not least of which: it's possible to be endogenic and disordered or traumagenic and not disordered).”

“in the end it's the radical inclusivity again. when we divide our already marginalized communities further, we make things worse for both ourselves and the people we other. I'm tired of being othered, and i cannot do that to other people. we all have a right to be heard and believed.”

I brought up radical inclusivity because of answering the MOGAI question right before this. I bring it up again here because just as it’s important in gender and orientation communities to not further other the “weird” people or those some see as “making a joke out of it”, the same can be said in any kind of mental health support communities.

If we other those who have “distasteful symptoms” or those who are stigmatized by incorrect or unflattering portrayal in media, we are perpetuating ableism and contributing to the oppression of those people. People with OSDDID should understand this, and many do. We are part of that frequently othered group.

The thing is…the othering happening here is not because of the diagnosis. A lot of people doing it don’t even know the right name, or didn’t until the last couple years. These people don’t know the theories, they don’t see the discourse, they don’t know what origin labels are. They see anyone with more than one consciousness in their head and say horrible things.

Our communities, connected or not, are harmed by continuing that othering and making each community smaller. The less united we are, the less information makes it out to the people who don’t know and currently have no reason to care. You don’t have to be friends, but like.

Maybe we can just learn to tolerate each other? Live and let live? Correct misinformation about OSDDID, yes. Please make sure the disorder is well understood. But do it without tearing people down and treating them as these monoliths of unchanging bad? People learn things and grow and change. Not everyone will, but it’s hardly fair to assume that of everyone. And for goodness’ sake, let non-disordered systems and systems with atypical presentations live in peace.

Follow-up to this post here.