#cw syscourse

[forestmothsystem]

reasons we are pro endo.

the first, and most important, is that i genuinely do not care what goes on in your head. system developed without trauma? ok. system developed with trauma? ok. system created on purpose? ok. more than one of these? ok. something more complicated? ok. i support you.

other reasons include that anti endo stuff seems to be very intertwined with fakeclaiming. i suppose not all of them do this, as there seems to be more than one way to be anti endo, but one way i see a lot is the very simple statement “endos actually don’t exist and all of them are faking”. of course, there are the other varieties, such as “endos are just traumatised and don’t know it” and “endos are delusional” (genuinely fuck off if you tell anyone that they’re delusional as an insult). probably some others that i’m missing. i also see these same people saying that they’re anti fakeclaiming, or having fakeclaimers in their dni. do they know? did they simply never think about what they are doing?

i don’t like fakeclaiming. i have trauma surrounding similar things to it. if someone fakeclaims me, i can shrug it off (mostly. there are some things that will trigger me.) but if someone fakeclaims someone else, that almost always triggers me. i cannot stand someone being fakeclaimed. there is an intrinsic pain in being told that you are lying, that your pain is not real, that what has been happening to you is just a lie and the product of a child’s overactive imagination, and i hate the idea of that happening to someone else, because *nobody deserves it*. it hurts to see that people hurt other people.

and telling people that they are traumatised will not do anything good. firstly, one is assuming that they haven’t already tried searching for their trauma. what if they have, and can either confirm that they do not have any, or that it is not intertwined with their systemhood? or what if they haven’t, and one’s pushing makes them unearth trauma that they were not ready for? this can cause actual harm. it has real consequences.

and telling people that they are delusional is a shitty move. firstly, having delusions is not something one can throw around to insult people with. it is a genuine condition and if someone is actually delusional, reality checking can cause them harm. and saying that someone is delusional just seems to be a roundabout way of telling someone that they’re faking. i actually do hate people who tell other people that they’re delusional. delusional people do not exist as a way for one to be an arse to other people. they are people who have a condition. delusions are not automatically evil, despite the fact that they have been demonised.

and endos do not exist to harm people, despite the beliefs of some. plurality/systemhood is not an exclusive club that only people with severe trauma can access. even though i could access this hypothetical club, i don’t want to be in it if it automatically excludes people. plenty of endos still have trauma even if it does not intertwine with their systemhood. this is to say nothing of mixed origin systems, who are always excluded from this discussion. if they are not purely born of trauma, then would they be prevented from accessing spaces for trauma survivors who are systems? i do think there should be spaces for trauma survivors, but saying that they need to be endo free is a bit assholish to those who are mixed origin systems.

those are my main reasons, among others.

-rant from a traumagenic system who is so tired of having to read about others being fakeclaimed.

[a-clucking-system]

its really funny seeing endos and endo supporters saying "youre hurting trauma survivors by being anti endo!"

yeah? im hurting trauma survivors? you mean, the people that claim to not have trauma?

be ASTRONOMICALLY real with yourself

[theswiftheartsystem]

The whole anti-endo argument of “They just don’t remember their trauma” literally is a trap.

There is two main results of this argument:

A system realizes they are traumagenic, and this is now used against endogenic systems as a “SEE ALL ENDOGENIC SYSTEMS ARE TRAUMAGENIC”

Endogenic systems provide evidence and it gets ignored.

It is legitimately set up so you have no way to win.

They villainize “kindness” (quote because it’s not kind whatsoever) by playing the “I think they are real just confused 🥺” card.

This is not kindness. And to systems who may realize they are trauma-endo or traumagenic, all this does it pressure them into remembering trauma.

[pluralcultureis]

plural culture is googling different "system origins" because what??? and your jaw literally dropping because i did not go through a life of stress and confusion being a system (even tho i love my headmates, things can get rly difficult) just for someone to "become plural on purpose" because theyre LONELY 😔

.

[tommyssupercoolblog]

okay so let me check my notes umm... according to fakclaimers:

systems can only be kids because it only develops then, but also can only be adults over 20 or so because otherwise you're making it up for tiktok OR wouldn't possibly know yet, and you have to be diagnosed with DID/OSDD but you also have to be truamagenic or the diagnosis doesn't count even if it comes from a doctor, and if you're truamagenic but self diagnosed then you're lying or confused. if you're truamagenic AND diagnosed then you're a freak and dangerous to the public OR you have to live in secret or else you must be lying. you can't be plural on purpose through thoguhtform because then you're making yourself disabled and that's fetishizing but you also can't be plural against your will UNLESS you met the previous critera otherwise that wouldn't happen to you. and you can't call yourself a t-pla ever even though the controvery is around cultural appropriation and a stranger has no clue over the internet if you have the right to reclaim, which you VERY WELL MIGHT. but if you call yourself a thoughform you're cringe and too woke. if you're endogenic you can't call yourself a system but you also can't call yourself plural or a collective or anything else. If you're mixed-orgin you're just a confused truamagenic or a lying endogenic.

You also can't have introjects because that's cringe and cringe means you're lying but you also can't have original alters because then you're just roleplaying as OCs. as an introject you can't hate your source or be neutral because then why would you introject?? but you can't love them or else you're just a crazy fan pretending to be them. as an original alter you can't be TOO different from the original or that's just something out of a movie but you can't be alike because then you're not really an alter.

You can't have only nice alters who get along together because then you're faking and if you have alter conflict then you need to be locked up because you're probably a serial killer. and you have to only have split when you were little and can't split ever again even though that's something that happens all the time even past people's 20s, and you can't have any other disorder or you're just wrong about being plural, and you can't hate being plural because then you're attention seeking and clearly must be pretending to have a disorder for pity, and you can't love being plural because you're not allowed to love having a disorder or disability, and you can't be neutral about it because why the fuck wouldn't you have a big reaction to being so weird?? you're weird. so you must be lying about being weird because everyone else finds this shocking and disturbing or fascinating and surely so would you.

and you can't not date because then you're missing out (even if ur aro, ace, or aroace mostly) and you can't date because then you're abusing your partner and lying to them by being multiple people since you're clearly just one OR you're making them date strangers which is also bad, and you can't date another system because you can't know other systems personally or else you're all fakers, and you can't date in-headspace because that's too weird to be true. you can't all be striaght because that's unrealistic so you're faking but if your alters all have different sexualities that's a sure sign you're faking and just making up OCs and if you're all gay then you're ALSO faking and just trying to be Jefferson Miku Binder Woke and are a cringe SJW. You can't all be the same gender but you can't be different genders either and you can't have individual labels but if you id as genderfluid or pluralgender or something collective that's cringe and clearly a sign you're just a dumb lying teenager begging for attention.

you can't have a consistent host but also you can't have anyone other than the "original" front for too long. you can't be able to control switches but you also need to be able to "prove it" by switching in front of other people. you can't have different mannerisms or handwriting because that's overdone and dramatic and clearly just theatre and you can't have the same mannerisms or handwriting becase then you're clearly just lying. You can't think of yourself as one person because that's confusing, but you can't think of yourself as multiple people, because you share a body so CLEARLY you must be one singular person!!!!! If you use i/me pronouns you're faking and just forgetting to act plural as a plothole in ur lies and if you use we/us you're also faking and clearly only know about systems through tiktok. if you go by your infividual names you're being confusing and a hasstle and a bitch, but if you use a collective name or go by the og/host's name you're lying and a catfish abuser. if you get final fusion you're not plural anymore and don't get to talk about it. if you don't get final fusion you're a faker.

you can't literally be seperate because that makes no sense, you can't have more than one consciousness in one mind!! but you can't just be one person separated by memory walls with the EFFECT being "as if" you were actually seperate because then you're not really plural.

you can't act or dress normal because "we'd be able to tell" but you can't be visibly weird or plural because then you're fake, cringe, or both. you can't roleplay or cosplay because that means your plurality is cosplay too, but you can't avoid roleplaying and cosplaying because then you're crazy for identifying as another person than the og but not being able to dress up as a different person (and/or your source if ur an introject).

did i get it all?? no, probably, because there's way more rules and contradictions than even these, huh?? there's an infinite list of rules and ideas but really they're all just set dressing. all the conflicts just end up resulting in one, big rule. but they don't say the big rule because a long list like that, if it's spread out and not put in one post like this, doesn't look as mean. so it's easier to swallow it one bit at a time, to rule out one way of life after another, then to say it outright.

when every possible way to be is ruled out, you get the real rule, which is:

"If you're plural or a system, you can't exist."

there is no acceptable way to be plural. the only "correct" way to be plural is to be erased entirely.

[plural-this-user-is]

This system does not participate in Syscourse ☕️✖️

☕️ Made by Us. Credits are not necessary, but appreciated. This was requested. ✖️

[thestudsystem]

TW // Syscourse!

There's a user I just came across called thebigcrow, and uh. they made a post fixing Endos posts.

stealing the entire post from endos.

I don't know how further they're gonna go with it. but it's best if Endos and pro Endos may block it,

I don't know what's necessary to say and what's not. I don't know if this post is okay, but I just want to keep Endos safe from having their posts reposted.

[livseses]

If the expectation of scientific studies that are applied to endogenic systems today by sysmeds were applied to traumagenic systems in the 80s or earlier, all plurals would be considered a bunch of fakers (which it was).

So just remember that if you withhold your acceptance of endogenic systems until "adequate" scientific evidence or "proof" is brought forward, you would have likely sided with the psychs that labeled all of us as fantasy prone attention seekers.

The only proof that can and ever will exist for plurality of any sort is, always has been, and always will be, systems themselves relating their internal experience.

[monochromayhem]

Responding to a TikTok I saw earlier.

Something that people don’t consider trauma that can result in plural states is high-masking autism. When you’re forced to wear a mask for an extended time just to exist and participate in society, it doesn’t take much for those masks to form their own thoughts and feelings.

People in general mask all the time, we compartmentalize ALL THE TIME. It’s just when you’re neurotypical those masks tend to stay masks and you can identify where one stops and you begin.

It’s harder because autistic individuals have to mask 24/7 to fit in, and thus can lose “themselves” (whatever that means to the individual) much easier: it’s easier to identify a mask with particular roles that you have to be and you start assigning characteristics and life to that mask.

And it’s traumatic. It’s traumatic and people don’t realize it.

It doesn’t always result in those outcomes, but it’s another means of traumagenic non-DID origin.

[kpopwerewolf]

TW Syscourse Vent Post

Just saw a tag that said “endos aren’t real.” Um? So I’m a ghost? A figment of my own imagination? I’m fine if someone wants to (quietly/privately) think I have traumagenic origins I just haven’t recognized yet (in part because we haven’t ruled it out), but I am tired of being told I don’t exist, that my headmates don’t exist.

We decided to assume endogenic origins because we don’t really know how or why we formed, and until we feel ready to explore our trauma and see if it’s connected to our plurality, we don’t want to use the term traumagenic as it may not apply to us. Why does that automatically mean we don’t exist?

We already know we don’t have a dissociative disorder based on DSM criteria, but we’re still plural. Systems without dissociation are possible! We exist! The only type of disordered plurality we might have is if we have Schizotypal Personality Disorder, which I’m pretty sure we do.

But I still exist. I’m real. I’m alive, breathing. All of us are. Meaning both my headmates and the wider plural community at large.

It’s exhausting trying to learn more about plurality only to be met with vicious hostility and declarations of how I don’t exist.

Can we please stop deciding that certain plural experiences are inherently wrong just because they aren’t like the ones we experience ourselves?

[little-guy--made--of--clay]

definitely already said but being anti endo and complaining about people fakeclaiming you is crazy. me when the lepord eating peoples faces party eats my face

and, for clarity, these people shouldnt be fakeclaimed. i dont agree with that. it sucks to get fakeclaimed. i think all plural folks should be accepted as multiple. but this includes endos!!

in short i love you if youre plural no matter what you deserve rights i love you!!!!!!

[strawberry-graveyard]

when we first started our syscovery we were in heavy anti endo spaces. and their strict idea of what a system must be and negativity and also general unwillingness to listen to and understand and help people trying to figure out if they were a system caused one of our headmates to send the system into complete shut down. heavy dissociation barriers to the point that i don’t even remember most of it aside from the fact that it happened.

but a year later when we started to explore pro endo spaces and saw a much more open, and understanding community brimming with love and acceptance and such a wide variety of ways to be plural and saying that all of them are valid even if they’re different, made us much more comfy with coming to terms with our plurality. there wasn’t any pressure to be a certain way to be valid, we already were. it was so freeing and i’m so thankful we’ve managed to find a home here.

[theswiftheartsystem]

guys- can we stop pretending traumagenic plurality is so different-? Yes it’s very different, but it has many similarities and overlaps with endogenic plurality- it isn’t opposite sides of a coin, more a spectrum of plurality- I’m not saying both are the same, or that traumagenic and endogenic systems don’t need safe spaces, but we would get a lot more done if we just teamed up guys-

(also, endogenic does not mean the person doesn’t have trauma, it just means their origin/one of their origins is separated from trauma, you guys are embarrassing yourself everytime you pretend they inherently don’t have trauma, we have met endogenic systems with like the amount of trauma we have, still endogenic.)

[pluralcultureis]

not culture I'm just so done with endos and supporter. I just saw someone state that traumagenic = unhealthy/disfunctional multiplicity & that endos are healthy

and I am at a loss. they are literally demomizing us(?) rn. I'm sick. traumagenic does not mean disfunctional. traumagenic just means your system is created by trauma. what kind of bullshit are endos spreading now.

That's.. that's a horrible explanation :(

I genuinely feel sick the more I hear about what endos say about us it's so frustrating

[systemserendipity]

Our System Memes Dump™️

[thescarletwitchirl]

okay, for once in my life, im willing to have an open mind. /st

endos, and endo supporters, tell me anything about endos.

literally anything.

i have a very anti-endo point of view, but today for some reason, i realized, ‘i’ve never actually interacted with an endo before.’ and it made me want to like, hear you guys out ig? if that makes sense?

so. idk. tell me abt ur experiences, leave links to things abt endos (like, actual articles made by doctors if there are any, i dont mean carrds and tumblr blogs as they arent reliable /nm), just tell me abt ur experiences as endo system.

and endo supporters, idk, just tell me why u support endos, bc tbh i want to have a more open mind, so yeah. <3