#but idk how relevant that is here

[hinamie]

so just know, I'm healing / even though it don't feel like it

insp

[just-bee-lieve]

a container for love that will soon burst

[skrunksthatwunk]

actually i'm still thinking about the moral orel finale.

he has a cross on his wall. do you know how much i think about that bc it's a lot.

a lot of stories ((auto)biographical or fictional) centering escape from abusive/fundamentalist christianity result in the lead characters leaving behind christianity entirely. and that makes complete sense! people often grow disillusioned with the associated systems and beliefs, and when it was something used to hurt them or something so inseparable from their abuse that they can't engage with it without hurting, it makes total sense that they would disengage entirely. and sometimes they just figure out that they don't really believe in god/a christian god/etc. a healthy deconstruction process can sometimes look like becoming an atheist or converting to another religion. it's all case by case. (note: i'm sure this happens with other religions as well, i'm just most familiar with christian versions of this phenomenon).

but in orel's case, his faith was one of the few things that actually brought him comfort and joy. he loved god, y'know? genuinely. and he felt loved by god and supported by him when he had no one else. and the abuses he faced were in how the people in his life twisted religion to control others, to run away from themselves, to shield them from others, etc. and often, orel's conflicts with how they acted out christianity come as a direct result of his purer understanding of god/jesus/whatever ("aren't we supposed to be like this/do that?" met with an adult's excuse for their own behavior or the fastest way they could think of to get orel to leave them alone (i.e. orel saying i thought we weren't supposed to lie? and clay saying uhhh it doesn't count if you're lying to yourself)). the little guy played catch with god instead of his dad, like.. his faith was real, and his love was real. and i think it's a good choice to have orel maintain something that was so important to him and such a grounding, comforting force in the midst of. All That Stuff Moralton Was Up To/Put Him Through. being all about jesus was not the problem, in orel's case.

and i know i'm mostly assuming that orel ended up in a healthier, less rigid version of christianity, but i feel like that's something that was hinted at a lot through the series, that that's the direction he'd go. when he meditates during the prayer bee and accepts stephanie's different way to communicate, incorporating elements of buddhism into his faith; when he has his I AM A CHURCH breakdown (removing himself from the institution and realizing he can be like,, the center of his own faith? taking a more individualistic approach? but Truly Going Through It at the same time), his acceptance (...sometimes) of those who are different from him and condemned by the adults of moralton (stephanie (lesbian icon stephanie my beloved), christina (who's like. just a slightly different form of fundie protestant from him), dr chosenberg (the jewish doctor from otherton in holy visage)). his track record on this isn't perfect, but it gets better as orel starts maturing and picking up on what an absolute shitfest moralton is. it's all ways of questioning the things he's been taught, and it makes sense that it would lead to a bigger questioning as he puts those pieces together more. anyway i think part of his growth is weeding out all the lost commandments of his upbringing and focusing on what faith means to him, and what he thinks it should mean. how he wants to see the world and how he wants to treat people and what he thinks is okay and right, and looking to religion for guidance in that, not as like. a way to justify hurting those he's afraid or resentful of, as his role models did.

he's coming to his own conclusions rather than obediently, unquestioningly taking in what others say. but he's still listening to pick out the parts that make sense to him. (edit/note: and it's his compassion and his faith that are the primary motivations for this questioning and revisal process, both of individual cases and, eventually, the final boss that is christianity.) it makes perfect sense as the conclusion to his character arc and it fits the overall approach of the show far better. it's good is what i'm saying.

and i think it's important to show that kind of ending, because that's a pretty common and equally valid result of deconstruction. and i think it cements the show's treatment of christianity as something that's often (and maybe even easily) exploited, but not something inherently bad. something that can be very positive, even. guys he even has a dog he's not afraid of loving anymore. he's not afraid of loving anyone more than jesus and i don't think it's because he loves this dog less than bartholomew (though he was probably far more desperate for healthy affection and companionship when he was younger). i think it's because he figures god would want him to love that dog. he's choosing to believe that god would want him to love and to be happy and to be kind. he's not afraid of loving in the wrong way do you know how cool that is he's taking back control he's taking back something he loves from his abusers im so normal

[unordinary-diary]

Seraphina and Arlo: The Brainwashing of High Tiers

Exposition:

— Remi, Episode 50.

There is a heavy implication that Seraphina and Arlo were raised in much the same way. The pressure on Seraphina comes from her parents, so I’ll extrapolate that the same goes for Arlo. This raises the question: how do the authorities create such a strong societal pressure on such a small percentage of the population? Most high tiers will probably not know any other high tiers besides their parents. Take Wellston Private High School for example: it’s the most prestigious private school around, and canonically has the “highest concentration of high tiers in the region”. There are six high tiers in Wellston. Apply this to god tiers specifically, and there are only three. Not to mention that this current group of students is uniquely strong, even for Wellston. In Rei’s senior year, he was the strongest at 5.8 max.

So much of this brainwashing relies on the parents to do all of the work, and it only takes one or two people to break the cycle. So how are the authorities creating this immense pressure? One tactic could be by isolating high tiers. There is a very widespread concept that one shouldn’t associate with those outside their level range. A caste system like this that affects everyone is much easier to create and maintain than an expectation for a small group, and it also means that high tiers are only being influenced by those who are also high level. This creates an echo chamber. I’ve researched cults and how they brainwash victims, and the first step in the process is isolating them in exactly this way.

But, if there are so few high tiers, how the hell are they supposed be isolated from other groups? The answer is that high tiers are just isolated in general. Take a look at Arlo: his only friend is Remi, and even her, he keeps at an arm’s length. Arlo is only close with Remi in the first place because he was close with Rei, who, at the time of meeting Arlo, was presumably close in level with him. [EDIT: I forgot about Holden, which I think says a lot about his relevance. He is kept at more than an arm’s length and doesn’t seem to have any actual influence on Arlo, let alone a deep relationship. He is also not presented as an equal.] Take a look at Seraphina: before meeting John, she didn’t seem to have any friends other than possibly Arlo. Seraphina and Arlo pre-John seemed to have had more of a professional relationship, and while they were not close in level, Arlo did fit the bill of being a fellow god tier, and strong enough to also be brainwashed.

Now let’s look at Remi. In episode 60, Cecile says to Remi: “And yet here you are... Always hanging around those two monkeys, Blyke and Isen. Letting them treat you as an equal even though you’re in a completely different league.” This struck me as odd because, aside from Cecile herself, the Wellston students closest in level to Remi were Arlo, Blyke, and Isen. And who is she friends with? She actually was doing a pretty good job at following that social convention, unless Cecile wanted to be friends with Remi, which she clearly didn’t. But... her friends were still not close enough to her level. Was she supposed to just not have friends at all? The answer seems to be a resounding yes. Can you think of any genuine friends that Cecile has either?

Friendship simply isn’t considered a necessity for high tiers.

But... why is it that Arlo and Seraphina were brainwashed differently? Creating a societal norm for an isolated group of people is one thing, because those people’s mindsets feed into each other. Putting pressure on individual families to keep them in line, but doing it all in different ways? That would be near impossible. My theory is that Seraphina recieved the typical high tier brainwashing, and that Arlo was raised differently because he was being groomed to work for the authorities. Seraphina didn’t have a set career path planned out for her, but if she’s trying to be “perfect” by the standards of those controlling her, she’s bound to end up going in a direction that pleases them. Arlo on the other hand was specifically planned to become an authority figure. That’s why his brainwashing is so centered on leadership. Also, growing up with direct contact to the authorities makes it more possible for them to customize his brainwashing in this way.

But does all of this apply to high tiers in general, or is it specific to god tiers? Let’s take a look at the high tiers in Wellston. We have Seraphina, John, Arlo, Terrence, Remi, Cecile, and Blyke. John is a unique circumstance because he wasn’t raised by high tiers, so we’ll cross him off the list. Terrence was also unique, so we can cross him off as well. Remi was different from the norm as well. Why is that? Well, Remi actually wasn’t raised by high tiers either. Rei said on screen that both of his parents were elites. We can cross Remi off. Blyke doesn’t fit the bill either, but that’s easy to explain. He was an elite for a large part of the story, and he shot up rather quickly. We don’t know much of his family, but he probably wasn’t expected to be a high tier at all, and was raised as an elite. (All of this also serves to emphasize how much of this brainwashing comes from a person’s parents.) That leaves only Seraphina, Arlo, and Cecile to look at.

Cecile does seem to have high tier brainwashing, but it’s not nearly as intense as with Seraphina and Arlo. She doesn’t seem “obsessive”, and she wasn’t one of the examples Remi mentioned in chapter 50. It’s clear that high tiers are brainwashed in general, but god tiers are kept on a much shorter leash. This makes sense, obviously, because keeping a population in control like that is less necessary the lower the level. However, it’s also a chicken an egg situation: god tiers are both more important to keep in control, and also easier to keep in control. It’s important to note just how many exceptions we had to cross off. People like Remi and Blyke aren’t actually that unusual— a lower leveled high tier is much more likely to have non-high tier parents, or to have not always been a high tier themselves, or just in general, to have way more day-to-day interaction with non-high tiers. The brainwashing gets more and more diffused the lower down the ladder you go.

[radioroxx]

hmmmm mal du pays thoughts tonight

[shitty-proendo-blackout-posts]

Boots

👢

[pierrotpriest]

this is like i’ll take care of you. it’s rotten work. not to me, not if it’s you. to me

[imminent-danger-came]

It haunts me that MK is in so many shots of this one mural I can't quite place in 3x13

[hazellvsq]

frank and piper are interesting counterpoint narratives to me. both of them have relatively mundane problems compared to the rest of the cast yet their parent's domains represent the heights of human passion as defined by the series, despite piper and frank both being (outwardly) dispassionate and (inwardly) mopey. the good end of these domains is love and protection (selfless), the bad end is heartbreak and bloodlust (selfish), which both of them try to resist. they both get claimed last out of their trios and had beforehand assumed that they were the children of someone else. both also experience perceived rejection from their mortal family directly before the series begins - both express anger and hurt at being "sent away". their rejection and unexpected claiming, back-to-back, results in discombobulation for them both, and feelings of humiliation brought on by both sets of parents.

they also both go through forced physical transformations by their parents to fit an ideal they don't want. all of the characters experience issues of identity and self-esteem but i think its the most pronounced with these two in the series. neither of them really knows who they are, and are pessimistic about their own capabilities. they are also counterpoints in that they feel disconnected from their own looks - both are very self-conscious people, but, based on how they're described by other characters, piper is probably the most beautiful member of the 7 and frank is probably the least. piper is frequently harassed and objectified, whereas frank is teased constantly about his looks. he neither feels as childish as his face is nor as grown as his body is, and he doesn't understand how to move through the world. both of which are common experiences throughout puberty - suddenly being treated differently on the basis of a body that's changing faster than you want or understand.

(discourse alert) i don't have a lot to add to the piper transformation discourse except that i do think its interesting that her blessing was temporary within the book and her love interest actually self-reflected on his reaction to it and realized that he should not have told her that she looked hot in that instance. rick did reverse frank's transformation five years later and i'm curious about his thought process about both writing it in the first place and in reversing it, and what feedback he received, if any. piper's transformation was a makeover whereas frank's was a puberty, which later rick walked back with "actually frank is still going through puberty". piper's was cheesy, sure, but frank's falls so flat bc that's just not how it works. its too much of a stretch. i don't even think it was in rick's og plan for frank, maybe he just watched captain america and was like "hell yeah i should do that" and flipped a coin between frank and leo, bc again frank was already initially described as physically grown in his debut book. and i can't even talk about hazel's reaction to to it bc its not real to me and i can't read suddenly. idk frank's plotline in general was too rushed in that book and he should have gotten another pov chapter set at least bc rick was trying to do too much too fast and relied on idiocy like the transformation to support it in the place of real character work when it wasn't even necessary for anything he accomplished in the book. he could've just walked around with better posture and achieved the same effect.

[hybbat]

I do think a good chunk of the 'cringey atheist' stereotype did come from the fact that, especially americans, regardless of their actual religious status are just casually christian and refer to things through a religious filter and that isn't seen for how overwhelming/obnoxious/frustrating it is. Its absense, such as when writing a story and things like "oh god" or other casual references are remove or replaced, is seen as notable the same way people find the cast being all women or queer being 'abnormal'.

And I think more people, especially here on tumblr, should take a moment from ragging on some kid being "cringey" saying god doesn't exist or making atheist jump around like dancing monkeys to establish they're one of the good respectful ones before they ever even begin to talk about their own thoughts, and examine why so much content just inserts god into a conversation that had nothing to do with religion like it's the expected norm, the same way they examine the invasiveness of casual heteronormativity.

[spark-circuit]

[orcelito]

Actually, on the topic of the baby fever. God it's so frustrating. Bc when I was like 14 ish I was Adamant that I never ever wanted kids. And my dad said smth around the lines of "that'll likely change" (probably from his own experience with this) and I was like NO. it WONT.

And then eventually, age 21-22 ish, I admitted that Okay, I still don't want to have my own kids, but someday maybe I'll adopt...

And Now, 27 years old, I got the general baby fever on occasion. It Did fucking change. And I don't know if I actually WILL bother with having my own kid (I still don't want to go through the hassle and massive body changes). But god. I do see a fucking baby and feel that stab of longing. It's almost like my damned hormones betrayed me or smth. Maddening!

I shall simply write fanfic about it.

[lucreziaces]

thinking about the dark side of cesare fanning the flames-- or at the very least just not doing anything to stop them-- of the unholy love/desire he and lucrezia felt for each other when he just playfully chased her around the garden after discovering she was watching him fuck another woman, or when he planted the idea that he'd be the only one to care for her heart, or when he implied the love between them was comparable to the love of God, calling it "as all-consuming and pure as the love of God"....an idea she later reflects in season 3 when she says "one touch of your hand and God comes rushing back" (also in the same scene "whatever it is, it overwhelms".) like, yes, okay I do believe lucrezia is probably the one that shifted their relationship into sexual terrority (not on purpose though!!), but cesare is older by a few years. he would've understood it to be wrong before she did, and he could've sat her down at any point in season 1 or 2 and told her "hey, this isn't how brothers and sisters are supposed to feel about each other. we can't lean into whatever this is, okay?" and then made an actual effort to let her go instead of just half-assing it before then immediately beginning the build up of the already thick sexual tension between them until it was unbearable and she was left thinking her husband didn't care about her because he wouldn't sleep with her, so she climbed into cesare's bed and convinced him they should just get it on because no one else could understand them and people already it whisper about them anyway, so "why deny ourselves the pleasure?" very sick and twisted of him. I kinda hate him for it actually. because if he hadn't gone and created this "ideal lover" in lucrezia's head that only he could fit the mold of, she might've found actual happiness with someone else!! 😡 😡

[piningpercussionist]

Saw a comment somewhere and if I wasnt so tired my blood would be boiling but we are at a low simmer, so here I am to Bitch

I'm sorry but if your argument for (likely canon) bisexual Kim having a preference for men is her FORMER relationship with Scott I am going to beat you to death with my bat

At LEAST say it's the hopeless pining she does for him currently. Or maybe mention that she's dated 3 guys that we know of! (Which I will counter w her being gay as hell for/with 3 women, which levels out- though that's besides the point-) But if you're going to hinge it entirely on a relationship she had that started and ended in highschool I'm going to break your legs and make you sit through a deep dive of the series with me. All media. Just to reeeeeally draw it out. Painfully.

[hivepixels]

.

[graceful-not]

Uhh a response to @ccbcrazy 's video on Conya except it got too long and I put too much effort into it to just make it a reblog. So uh. VERY LONG rambling about why my feelings on Conya are complicated that somehow managed to have way too much Jay in it. why does he keep sneaking in here goddamnit.

OKAY SO FIRST OF ALL YEAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!!! THE SILLIES EVER!!!! I love the way you organized the bullet points! Made everything very easy to follow (other than all the times the audio cut out RIP 💀) but. yeah . yeah them. they are sooooo. SO! UAUAUUA.

I agree with most of your points (and relate very very much w/ that bit about being ace and the Love At First Sight trope, though I'm aro and not ace), and ESPECIALLY with how Skybound handled everything (I could say so much about how much I hate despise the way they resolved Jaya in Skybound it's so icky I hate it I hate it I hate it I HATE IT), but I don't really have much to add to them, so I'll here are my random disjointed thoughts that sometimes and sometimes do not align with yours:

at some points, the emphasis on how it's something guilty and forbidden and how she "wants him but she can't have him", to quote that one Cole fangirl. It.. sat weirdly with me? As well as the phrasing of "the narrative wants him to be self-sacrificing", when talking about Cole on one of the slides. It feels weird to phrase it like that, as if the narrative is pushing him into that role rather than it being part of who he is, y'know? And the reason that the "yearning for what you know you can't have" aspect felt strange to me was that Cole putting friendship over his romantic relationships is a VERY significant thing about him for me. He values his friendships and family over any kind of romance, and would rather forfeit a potential romance than lose a friend, even if that friend hurt him. Which felt weird when the rest of the slideshow made it clear that you, like me, enjoy Conya because above all else, Cole loves Nya as a comrade and an equal. As a friend, before and even IF he loves her as anything else, which as you point out, isn't something we can definitively say about the other relationships (especially Jaya. I like it, I really do, and I'd say I think I like it more than Conya? but it's. it's VERY complicated and messy and they aren't really stable like. At All. for a while.)

And that part of Cole resonated with me a lot; the part that's perfectly fine not pursuing Nya because he doesn't NEED that connection like Jay does, because he's satisfied and content with where he is in their relationship now, after they both calm down and he realizes it isn't worth it, because it isn't even something he wants all THAT much. (The larger issue is that Jay was against him spending time with her at ALL, even as friends, because he was being possessive and insecure which is a whole host of other things-)

And actually? Y'know what? I'm gonna talk about Jay for a bit bc I feel like, though you did have a few slides on it and touch on it, you didn't really talk about how Jay is a very fundamental aspect of Conya's dynamic in-canon, as Nya's Yang and Cole's best friend (A title which he bestowes upon himself, I might add.) Jay is... Not Very Secure In His Relationships for the first few seasons. It stems from feeling inferior and weak compared to everyone else, which grows into clinginess and possessiveness for the ones that DO choose him, because he's afraid they'll leave, which in turn pushes them away because he's being Weird About It. He has this habit of... sorting those closest to him into neat little boxes that reassure him (Nya as his girlfriend who loves him and finds him funny and won't leave him and Cole as his best friend who's loyal and supportive and also won't ever leave him, and, as you'll note, he's the one that starts both of these, with asking Nya out and proclaiming Cole as his bestie during Skybound.) And when those people step out of those boxes, the change unsettles him, and he panics and doubles down on his tactics, sometimes even resorting to violence (which makes things worse and pushes them away more and... you get it. it's a whole cycle.) So.. Nya and Cole and their interactions are very defined by What Jay Will Let Them Do, for the first few seasons. What won't set him off, what is Good and Innocent and won't make him insecure. S1-7 Jay would NOT have let the hand nuzzle happen. But I believe S8-15 Jay WOULD. Because he's actually secure in his relationship with Nya and they trust each other, and he trusts Cole, etc. etc.

And I feel like them having an undercurrent of romantic tension kind of spits in the face of that?? I dunno. It makes the intention a little wobbly. I like the idea that it comes from a place of camaraderie, where platonic love can also be deep and intimate and layered, and not just repressed romantic feelings. Because the thought that either of them are just pining and never having that resolved makes me sad for all three of them :(.

But I DO like to think that Cole is a little bit madly in love with all of his friends in different ways (just like me fr..) and Nya's the one he latched onto back in S3 because she's a girl and heteronormativity. Cole has a lot of love in his heart ok and he cares about them very very much 🥹. And he loves and supports them and maybe he wants to kiss some or all of them but he can't do that so he's fine where he is. really he is. he's fine. HES FINE!!! he's okay when she puts a hand on his shoulder and he doesn't know how to express that he loves her so so so much and he missed her but not in the way that Jay loves her, in a different way, but he feels like it's just as important but Jay obviously didn't see it that way and he doesn't know if he does now, and how he loves them all different but so so strongly and how can she and Jay even make it so simple it's so EASY for them to wear the Yin/Yang relationship label it just FITS even though none of those relationships are alike how can the same label work when the love is obviously so different and he doesn't know if Nya even could understand that, understand how much his heart bursts with affection and fondness for her and the others, but she DOES she DOES get how you can love someone so much that there maybe aren't correct words for it, that's why Jay was the one to propose because she was just happy the way they were, and she's happy the way they are now and she's happy the way she and Cole are now except she can't be because they keep getting TORN APART and they can't ever really be happy because they're all always in danger ALL THE TIMe- sorry got carried away aha.

but yeah. And then Jay is there. and i can't let myself think Abt Conya too long because I get really sad about him. bc he's not LIKE THAT. He doesn't Get It like they (and I haha was it clear I am maybe projecting) do. The labels are comforting to him, rather than unneeded or even restricting in the way they could never encompass the full force of the feelings. They're like signifiers that the love is real, is there, is Official, which isn't something the others need because they already take the loving as a fact and a given, and Jay doesn't! He doubts his relationships and needs the reassurance of the labels, to be able to say, definitively, "This is my Yang, which means we love eachother romantically and complete eachother and are missing a piece without eachother and" (do you see where the problem is. The proposal scene was so cute but I think about his little rambly speech a little too much BUDDY WITH ANY OTHER PERSON ITD BE CUTE BUT WITH YOU AND YOUR TRACK RECORD ITS CONCERNING) But that also means that when the "rules" are broken he thinks it means the love is also broken because now the label has been dismantled and that's! NOT TRUE!!! AHH!!!!!!!! I truly think he would be cured if he made out with someone other than Nya (w/ her permission obv) for like ten seconds but he would literally never do that. but it would fix him I know this in my heart if Nya told him to go out and get some bitches he would be cured of All of His Complexes he would experience Enlightenment through the knowledge that he could do that and his relationship with Nya would still be valid and their feelings wouldn't change just because he did it and he would ALSO get to kiss someone about it. Literally win-win. Maybe it could even be Cole. this is how mudshock shippers stay winning.

And THATS always been my biggest issue with Conya. They never know what to do with Jay. Because if he found out Nya doesn't love him and is IN LOVE WITH HIS BEST FRIEND he would literally never recover all of his self worth issues that he overcame down the fucking drain bitch!! because everything bad he thought about himself has been proven true! AND THE REASON HE ACTS LIKE THAT IN THE FIRST FEW SEASONS IS BC THATS EXACTLY WHAT HES TERRIFIED OF HAPPENING!! And because he's so insecure and also has so much amatonormativity entrenched within him because the rules and restrictions reassure him, he's diametrically opposed to Conya! so I can't let myself have a Conya AU without Jay unpacking all of that and being Okay with people experiencing love differently, and then maybe realizing he doesn't have to love so restrictively anymore either, and THEN Conya can be whatever the fuck is going on with them in peace. Or he finds out Nya is in love with Cole and almost loses his shit before they both tell him they are also still in love with him. And he's like "oh thank God wait Cole ur in love with me" and that would fix him. Imagine thinking you're literally the worst and then you pull both Nya AND Cole while actively being kind of a jerk to them. how do you have the self worth issues after that shdbsjdb.

anyway go watch the video 👍