#but not many about how show!aegon is not a rapist

[gwenllian-in-the-abbey]

apologies for being callous in asking this, but seeing as so many aegon-centric (or those who had tagged him) blogs, no matter how good their dissertion and dissection of aegon is, gets called/is assumed to be a rapist defender/apologist, have you ever received an ask/comment calling you that? if so, i hope it never bothered you at all. apologies for bringing it up but i feel like getting called that would probably stopped those from actually enjoying/talking about him and his other qualities (such as his alcoholism, his bond with his dragon, his actions during the dance, his desperate survival.) because it actually stopped me from enjoying his character (because i initially felt so bad liking a character like that), going through his tag as well as looking for fics because of the vitriol. well that was until i stumbled upon your AKAB and OFCiR, which gave me so much perspective on aegon. and your opinion on the dyanna scene (which is oh boy, such a hot topic) was so beautiful.

No worries anon! So actually, I've never received an ask or comment with the rape defender/rape apologist accusations (and now that I've said this, I'm sure I'm sure someone will want to break that streak lol). I've participated in discussions in general in which those sorts of attacks were tossed around, but I've never had them aimed at me directly.

I'm honestly pretty surprised it hasn't happened, but I sort of chalk it up to two things. 1) I block prodigiously and pre-emptively and 2) I tag my discourse posts judiciously and try not to antagonize other fans by posting critical things in the main tags. And although I know opinions vary on this, using anti tags and team tags is also another way of making sure that people who have certain tags blocked will not see my posts, so I do use those when I feel it's appropriate. Beyond those two things, I think I also have a habit of writing pretty detailed responses and providing evidence to back up my assertions, which probably discourages people who are just looking to get a rise out of someone and don't want to read a five paragraph essay about why they're wrong.

I'm really sorry that those sorts of accusations have stopped you from enjoying Aegon's character in the past, and I'm glad my fics helped you to enjoy him again. Obviously I think he's an interesting guy with a compelling, tragic story! I will say this: I've been in the greater asoiaf fandom for well over a decade now, and characters who are far more morally dubious than Aegon have always had fans. Ramsay has fans. Euron Greyjoy has fans. I don't know if you were watching GoT when the show first aired, but so many show only people hated Jaime at first, not knowing his arc, and by the end he was one of the more beloved characters on the show. And by the end of the Dance, no one's hands are clean. Rhaenyra herself allows Dalton Greyjoy to reave along the coast of the Westerlands, which results in hundreds of women being taken as salt wives (and we know what that entails!). If we can only enjoy the most morally correct characters, our choices for the Dance era are pretty slim, and mostly limited to literal children.

I doubt most people throwing out those accusations could even spot actual rape apologia in a fandom context, considering all of the other types of apologia I see flying around unchecked. Rape apologia is not the existence of rapist characters, enjoying those characters, or even analyzing why those characters did what they did. Rape apologia is not questioning why the show decided to make Aegon a rapist, or hoping he might get more character development in the future. Rape apologia is making excuses for rape, or outright denying that it happened. So, saying "Dyana was probably lying" or "Dyana was probably into it" or "Dyana was scamming the royal family," or even what Aegon himself said in the scene, "it was just a bit of harmless fun," that's clear cut rape apologia. And here's the thing, when something is wrong, it's usually because it causes harm, and unlike simply enjoying a character, actual rape apologia does cause harm. Making excuses for or denying even fictional rapes perpetuates rape culture in ways that make it harder for women to speak up against assault, and harder for rapists to be prosecuted effectively. But again, I have never seen actual rape apologia among the team green fans I know.

Finally, I'll just say that while fandom in general can be a fun, positive thing that helps people connect with each other based on shared interests, that drives people to think and to create and to do, on the other hand, fandom can also feed some pretty shitty modern impulses. It creates cliques, empowers bullies, and worst of all, it encourages a kind of brand driven consumption that in turn perpetuates this idea of fandom as activism. Activism is getting involved in your community, volunteering, fundraising, protesting, labor organizing, boycotting, etc. Activism is not scolding people online for enjoying media the wrong way. People who think this way need to reconnect with the outside world, and anon, I hope you continue to enjoy whichever characters fascinate you, including Aegon.

[helaenalyst]

god. so much to unpack with alicent and her good knights. the way gwayne and criston left this time as opposed to the first time. "my brother has volunteered to march with you" against "i have to go with ser criston". the delicate hand kiss against the little hand squeeze. alicent just giving criston a small nod as a goodbye snd him returning it with a tired smile. they're all so pained and tired they actually started interacting like human beings instead of through courtly gestures now. also was gwayne drunk i think he was at least a little bit drunk

also!!! god!!! aemond wanting to marry alicent off and dismissing her from the council and IMMEDIATELY sending criston away as soon as he takes her side, then not letting them have even a moment to comfort each other as they were walking away. he's joining the war on his parents' divorce on the side of the divorce. i know it's because he knows how much criston cares for aegon and because of what he saw and because he wants alicent isolated but i wouldn't be that surprised if he is somewhat jealous of criston for getting to bang his mom as well. targaryen prince things

the horror of being forced to bear an old man's children only for one of them to become a rapist and another to grow up to want to inflict the pain you suffered on you again? not because he doesn't understand but maybe precisely because he does? i didn't think the show could find many more ways to hurt alicent beyond killing what's left of her family but they are very very resourceful as i now see 💀💀💀

alicent trying to connect with gwayne. gwayne telling alicent that she was always otto's favourite has got to be the statement of the century. thank you god for giving us the angsty gwayne backstory at last. the bond he must have with daeron after he too was cast aside to be raised without parents. but from alicent's POV they are free and they were spared the endless horrors that she and her other children were subjected to at the red keep. still she tried to connect with him and sympathise with his pain. these siblings will be the death of me. the glances they and criston were exhanging in this scene. the way gwayne ended up reassuring alicent about her motherhood and did not leave without showing her some affection. i am unwell

the way gwayne doesn't know anything about what alicent and criston went through in all these years but he can still infer it just from spending a few days at the red keep god. truly truly unwell. there is so much more to say but this post is long enough. i would kill and maim for these three i'd give anything for a happy ending for them

[alicentral]

This is a response to a hotd critical post about the "favouritism towards Greens in screen time ratio", and I think it's so interesting how team black also feel like they're being fucked over by the showrunners when, to me, it's blindingly obvious that it's the other way round.

Not only are the show runners villainising the greens, not the blacks, they've also gone out of their way to make the blacks seem like the badass heroes who can do no wrong, and this is the root of the problem for both team black and team green. It oversimplifies the dance and goes against the themes and message of the whole book, rendering the characters either inconsistent, one-dimensional, and worst of all, flat and boring.

Lets start off with the greens. The argument that the showrunners are "gagging on the greens" doesn't hold up when we actually think about it for more than 2 seconds.

With the source material of hotd being a fictional history book with different biases and perspectives (emphasis on different perspectives), the showrunners have cherry picked what to adapt, and have chosen to take the worst of the greens as the objective truth and erase their good moments as "green propaganda". The main example that comes to mind is aegon. Plenty of other people have talked about this in depth before, but in f&b, aegon raping a girl was a rumour spread by mushroom, a narrator with a clear black bias who wasn't even in kings landing at the time. There was no reason in adapting this rumour other than to demonise aegon, and by extension, team green. The way the scene is framed, it is clear that it was never about dyana, how the rape affected her mentally, emotionally, socially, physically. For a supposedly feminist show, dyana's rape was a throwaway scene, it never had any impact on the story further. So what was the point of the scene other than to tell the audience "look at what a monster aegon is. How can you support someone like that?" And it works.

You can see on social media, any time there's something vaguely positive about the greens, you have hoards of people comment "yeah but he's a rapist" "how can you support a rapist?", etc. It forces you to side with team black. Later in the show, the audience gets to know that aegon's dick burst "like a sausage". Why would the audience need to know this? Aegon's mutilated dick is presented as "karma" for dyana and is only meant to humiliate him. And again, after this revelation, so many people on social media were making fun of his "burnt sausage". They've made a laughingstock of aegon, and as the figurehead of team green, it's clear that we're not meant to side with team green.

Furthermore, in bastardising, and sometimes, even completely erasing the relationships between team green, the showrunners have dehumanised them and made them irredeemable villains, because, again, we were never meant to side with those who "usurped the rightful queen".

The loyalty and commitment the greens had to one another made them such compelling characters and heavily shaped their central motivations and actions. Aegon only took the crown to protect his family. Aemond, after rooks rest, never called himself a king, only lord protecter even though he knows he would've made a better king than aegon. Daeron torched the riverlands to get to his mother and sister and sacked bitterbridge as revenge for his nephew. Helaena offered up her life for her son, and chose to sacrifice maelor because she knew he wouldn't understand what was happening. Their actions may not be necessarily good (and in daeron's case, actually happen to be war crimes), and their motivations may be morally grey, but they're understandable, they're sympathetic, seeing as it was out of love and loyalty, something that 21st century society can relate to. Without these complex and compelling ties, the audience is left asking why would the greens stick together if they all seemingly can't stand each other? Why fight for aegon if he doesn't even seem to care for them? What was the point in having the crown then? As a result, the characterisations feel one-dimensional (helaena being reduced to being just an "innocent" amidst her bloodthirsty family) or inconsistent (alicent. just her entire story arc. it could've been interesting if done right, but alas, no such luck), or rushed (suddenly aemond wants to be king in his own right after defending his brother's claim at storms end).

This isn't to say that team green are perfect, far from it, but the close emotional ties and relationships could've been used to elevate the internal conflicts in the show. We could've had complex characters who aren't necessarily good, but they're family and they stick together despite their personal grievances.

And this isn't even mentioning their bonds with their dragons. Where was vhagar roaring when aemond's eye was cut out? Aegon and sunfyre had the closest bond between dragon and human and that was given to rhaenyra in the show and where is dreamfyre?

One last thing on the greens, they are presented as incompetent and not equipped to rule, which is meant to show how it would be oh so much better if rhaenyra was on the throne. Criston parading meleys' head is framed as stupid as meleys was "a beloved dragon", ignoring the fact that she murdered hundreds of smallfolk at the coronation. Alicent is presented as stupid for thinking that after rooks rest, the small council would appoint her the queen, aegon in the small council was meant to be laughed at. Of course, this begs the question, if the greens were meant to be a mess of a faction with only 3 functioning dragons and now 2 effective dragon riders, how did they hold out against the blacks for so long? It's clear that the showrunners haven't thought this through.

So yeah, i don't really understand what this person was trying to say when they say that the showrunners are "gagging on the greens" when they are demonised, humiliated and stripped of compassion. I would like to say here, nothing i've said about the greens here is new to team green fans, and so many more people have gone into more depth about this.

Lets move onto the blacks. In a conflict where no side was meant to be in the right (who has the right to rule is a beast for another day), where there were no winners, only losers, where a dynastic dispute almost tore down the entire aforementioned dynasty, the blacks are framed as the heroes, the side the audience should root for. If they come off as villainised to the audience, i don't think it was done on purpose.

Opposite to the greens, they're mistakes and flaws are glossed over. I think this is the main reason why team black falls flat as opposed to lack of screen time, which i don't really want to count.

An important example of this is blood and cheese. In f&b, blood and cheese was a horrific event which drove queen helaena mad and, importantly, was meant to murder one of aegon and helaena's sons in revenge for lucerys. A son for a son. It was always meant to be jaehaerys. By making blood and cheese all one big mistake in the show, with aemond as the real target and oops, we can't find him so jaehaerys will do, team black and rhaenyra can't be held accountable for the murder of an innocent 6 year old boy. Moreover, the fact that rhaenyra never knew or sanctioned the murder, and it was all daemon going rogue, rhaenyra is even further removed from the horrific murder of a child, because, of course, our heroine can't be responsible for anything bad, she's meant to be the one in the right!

Furthermore, condal and hess try to force the smallfolk's love of rhaenyra during the dance, contrary to the book, which serves to uphold rhaenyra's right to the throne and show how team black are the right side. During the blockade on kings landing, the smallfolk conveniently forget that she's the one causing the blockade when she sends food through (showing that she could've done that at any time). The cheering for rhaenyra and the riot makes no sense, as again, she was the one who caused the blockade in the first place.

The introduction of the prophecy also is only meant to justify any "wrong" rhaenyra and team black do. The death of the dragonseeds and the smallfolk were all in the name of a prophecy so it's ok. And this is the thing which infuriates me the most, because the prophecy could've been a fascinating aspect of team black's motivations if framed right. The idea of committing atrocities in the name of a believed divine, higher purpose could've been used to expand upon team black's character growth and internal conflict vis a vis the knights templar and the crusades. How do they feel about this? Are they even aware of what they're doing? Alas, the show itself buys into the prophecy, buys into the divine purpose and suddenly, the atrocities aren't presented as "that bad" anyways. All of that to say, the show has never intentionally villainised team black.

So we've established that as the heroes, team black can't do anything wrong, and if they do, it's for a higher purpose, so it's alright. Team black's "emotions and conflicts are made secondary" not to "disposable filler scenes of Greens", but to themselves, or rather, to rhaenyra and her right to rule. So many team black scenes were used to uplift rhaenyra to show how she is the rightful queen. The main two examples of this that stick out to me is baela rebuking jace when he rightfully questions rhaenyra's decisions and daemon's whole harrenhal arc, which serves as his redemption and so he can reaffirm his commitment to rhaenyra's right to rule. Of course it's going to be "a bore" if the main characters, the ones we're meant to be cheering haven't got anything going for them except for cheering on rhaenyra.

There's no character interaction, no character growth, no real internal conflict because from the beginning, team black has been presented as in the right and can do no wrong, so there's no room to grow, no room to develop, not because of lack of screen time. When character development almost breaks through (see: jace questioning rhaenyra), it's quickly quashed, because the audience needs to be reminded that rhaenyra is always right. There's a clear good and bad side that the show is trying to force, which doesn't work in this setting because it reinforces the idea of the divine right of kings, the idea that one person, one family is superior to all others, and that person is rhaenyra here. It undermines the idea that no one was in the right for the atrocities they committed. No one can be justified and that fundamentally, these are not good people, they're interesting characters (or could've been interesting characters), but they're not good people.

So why? Why are the blacks presented as the good side and the greens presented as evil? It all comes down to the fact that the showrunners have propagated the idea that the dance is about a woman's struggle to rule in the face of misogyny, rather than the decline of house targaryen due to their belief in targaryen exceptionalism or the consequences of the pursuit of power. Sure, feminism and misogyny is one aspect of the dance, but it's not a major driving factor. The showrunners have backed themselves into a corner here, because they trying to portray the dance through a modern feminist lens, and so they believe that they can't write women being flawed or evil, and so we get the free, liberated good side and the "misogynistic", conservative bad side.

So in conclusion, it is clear that the showrunners aren't villainising the blacks as this person believes, but the greens. In doing this, they've made a clear cut good and bad side which works to the detriment of both team black and team green. It leads team green's characterisation to be inconsistent and one-dimensional and it chokes team black from having character growth.

Listen, i don't know if team black truly have less screen time than team green, but if they do, it's not the reason why team black falls flat.

[persephryne]

Making Aegon a rapist was straight up bad and lazy writing.

Let me elaborate.

In the show, the first thing we learn about Aegon as an adult is that he is a rapist. We haven’t seen him yet but still we already know that he is an horrible despicable rapist, especially since Dyana is so young, which pretty much makes him a pedophile too. How could anyone root for a man like that ? And that’s where the problem begins.

Rhaenyra had already been established many times as the rightful heir to the throne in season 1. It has been made obvious that she would make a decent Queen too. In the meantime, it had already been shown that Aegon is not even a good person. He’s selfish, inconsiderate, a bully, and does not act like a prince at all. To put it plainly, he sucks big time and we as viewers already know it. Add what we saw in season 2, how reckless he gets, how he’s an alcoholic immature asshole, how he obviously knows nothing about strategics nor how to rule efficiently, or even how bad he is at high valyrian, and you can’t have anyone tell you in good faith that he would’ve been a better ruler than Rhaenyra.

However, had Aegon not been made a rapist, you would still feel for him even though he is not cut out to rule. Because he knows it too and tried to escape it and he was forced to attend his own coronation . Because this crown that he did not want does not fit him, even though he really tries to show that he is not as worthless as everyone seems to think and he just keeps failing. You would feel for him because the war ,that he has started when he was made an usurper by the people around him, has cost him his son’s life. Because the brother, who is partially responsible for his son’s death has now betrayed him and tried to kill him with dragonfire. Because the injuries he suffered make him look more and more like his father who never cared for him, never loved him and that he definitely hates. Which also probably why he tries so hard to make his mother proud of him and love him but he can’t and his main attempt has left him half-dead, half-burn. Not only that but his dragon, with whom he has the strongest bond known in Targaryen’s, history probably died during this futile attempt to prove himself. The only thing about his Targaryen’s heritage that he seems to care about has been destroyed all because he wanted to prove himself. Because he truly resents his Targaryen’s, his father’s heritage, it’s obvious, just as it is obvious that he didn’t want to marry his own sister but was forced to. It’s completely legitimate of him to want to distance himself as much as possible from everything that is Targaryen related. He is indeed more of an Hightower than a Targaryen, but can you really blame him for that ? Would you not try to fit somewhere else too, if you were in his place ? It’s all absolutely and undeniably tragic.

I wholeheartdely believe that, even if you would’ve root for Rheanyra to be Queen, you woud’ve probably still thought that Aegon, as bad as he is, did not deserves this much pain.

But because he is a rapist, well, he honestly does.

By not trusting the audience to see that Aegon is not a good person, nor a good a king, without having him comitting a literal crime, by making Aegon a rapist, the writers have annihilated any possibilities for an internal conflict regarding Aegon and Rhaenyra. The whole concept of « teams » just goes down the drain because of this lazy, manichaean, writing. And that, my friends, is bad writing at its peak.

[gawkgokgok]

The fact that Tom Glynn-Carney begged them not to make Aegon a rapist in the show 💔

he knew it would influence everything..

..and it did

the main ponit of doing so is not even portrayed well and now everybody has the wrong idea

(somebody said that it was all about how Alicent saw this and her reaction to it - cuz she was a victim herself and we see her not being able to do anything about it yet again)

so many of team black is that way just because they dont support rape..

team green doesnt either😭😭 but thats not what drives us to cheer for their victory

[franzkafkagf]

How do you personally think they massacred his potential? I fully agree, by the way. He could have and should have been a fan favourite. He's one of the most tragic characters I've seen, honestly. He's interesting and definitely the most complex character of the season, but the lack of catharsis the writers gave him for his issues is anger inducing.

the concept is just so good to me. the prince with no sense for duty or responsibility, who did not want the throne but feels forced to take it anyways. he takes the throne to save his family and yet, he watches all of them die anyways.

At first, the prince refused to be a part of his mother’s plans. “My sister is the heir, not me,” he said. “What sort of brother steals his sister’s birthright?” Only when Ser Criston convinced him that the princess must surely execute him and his brothers should she don the crown did Aegon waver.

that's just amazing. i cannot stress this enough; it's so profoundly tragic and sad. i don't hate everything they did with him in the show; they have many good ideas actually. him rejecting his valyrian heritage, him being kind of a failure at everything, him being desperate to my accepted/loved... this is all profound and good stuff! but i feel like his tragedy has been squandered by how the writers decided to frame the story. i could go on about how rhaenyra and alicent are potrayed so blandly in this show in order to make their embarrassing gender essentialism theme going but this is about aegon so i won't go into that.

aegon reminds me so much of theon greyjoy. maybe it's just me, but in my head theon and aegon start the story in similar places. they're spoilt, vain and indulgent. then they get their "calling", for aegon it's the crown. it's the first time in his life that he has a reason to get out of bed, to actually do something good for once. also, him believing his father actually wanted him to take the crown and it hurting him when otto scoffed at him for believing it? AMAZING stuff. I love s02xe02 to bits.

because [my father] didn't like me

theon's calling is to finally get his father's approval. balon, obviously, has no fatherly affection towards him and theon kind of knows it, he still betrays the only person he ever truly loved. and what happens to theon? he loses everything, absolutely everything; he is stripped of his pride, his dignity, of his entire identity. i've never seen a character go through something theon went through.

and i see parallels to aegon here! aegon is quite literally made and broken by the weight of a crown he never wanted. his story is more tragic than theon actually; the thing that destroyed him was quite literally forced on him. it actually kills me to think about it. he rushes into rook's rest because he feels powerless; because everybody around him shows him not even one ounce of empathy. his baby is dead and no one seems to care!

and he fails; of course he does. he is BETRAYED by his own brother, the brother he thought was loyal to him. this is just such good stuff my head hurts. his arc after the fall of KL is so amazing too, i'm desperate to see him go on his adventure to dragonstone and actually grow into the type of man that can turn rhaenyra's own people against her.

now, what could've been done to make his arc better in the show? well. let's start with not making him a rapist. i cannot stress this enough. the single worst choice was to introduce him as a rapist. it's actually crazy to me. it's so easy too... just make him like theon; make him promiscuous, make him vain, make him spoilt! they should've introduce his adult version with a drunk sex scene actually. set the tone for his character from the beginning.

he is not suited for the throne; he seeks pleasures, doesn't care for his valyrian lessons (based!), he drinks all day... like, what was the POINT of making him a rapist? what was it? -> the answer is obvious.... they didn't want us sympathizing with him. they were scared of people liking the villain. why is this hbo show scared you might have people sympathizing and pitying the "villain"? are you okay? YOU HAD ONE JOB. DEAR GOD.....

so with that said; make his motivations clearer. have him scream at aemond after jaehaerys dies, change up the godawful brothel scene to actually drive the point home; he is still grieving and his way of grieving is lashing out and drinking himself half to death! focus on his alcoholism and his rashness. I actually rewrote the brothel scene here

make us understand him bettter; there are moments like the "do you love me?" or all of ep 1 and 2 of season 2, but it's too little, too late. the writers in general have such a hard time with writing characters with actual qualities. all of them are so empty and act like robots. only aegon, criston, daemon and rhaenyra (in episodes 1 and 2 at least... then we went right back to robot mode lmao) show moments of actually being a character with rich inner workings. i hate it so much.

[idontreallyknow26]

"Alicent is a horrible mother and a rape apologist, Rhaenyra would never!" Oh but she would 😕😕

Firstly, in terms of how Alicent treated Dyana, she did more than anyone else in the show would've. She gave her moon tea, ensuring Dyana wouldn't become pregnant with her rapists baby & have to give birth. She paid her well, ensuring she could get the fuck away from her rapist. She comforted her. She then went to DISIPLINE AEGON, verbally degrading him and slapping him. She did the best she could in that situation. You all claim she should've sent Aegon away or had him killed - do you hear yourselves? Genuinley? You all would hate her MORE IF SHE DID THAT. You already hate her for not being Valyrain but killing one? Holy shit. And secondly, she couldn't do that - her father would never have let her, or the council.

Now, onto Rhaenyra. As far as we've seen, taking everything about how she parents and what she thinks of her boys - she wouldn't have even gone to see Dyana. Just had her killed. She would've found some form of excuse (she called them bastards) and used that to justify it. We've LITERALLY SEEN HER DO THIS WITH AEMOND. She would rather have her half brothers tortured for speaking truth than punish her boys for one, ganging up on another boy, and two, permanently mutilating him. She does not believe her boys can do any wrong. She doesn't. She is a VALYRAIN PRINCESS, she automatically thinks she's above everyone- I wonder how much of an ego boost nearly passing off three bastards for that many years gave her?

And we know she doesn't care for highborns either. She let Daemon murder Vaemond. That was breaking the law, the kings word that you all care about so much, and Daemon should have been executed for that. Do you really think she'd care about a random servant girl? You people get dumber by the fucking minute.

Do not sit there and try and act like Rhaenyra has any moral or even intellectual high ground on Alicent.

I'd also like to add that blaming a woman (Alicent) for a full grown man's actions (Aegon being a rapist) is WEIRD and misogynistic.

[elaratyrell]

Please Be Kind

As the release for hotd season 2 comes closer, please remember, the actors are not the characters they portray

Tom is not Aegon. He’s not a rapist, he’s not an alcoholic. He’s a real person who, from what I’ve seen and heard, is incredibly smart, charismatic, kind and funny

Matt is not Daemon. He’s not a groomer, he’s not an abuser. He’s a real person who seems talented, humorous, and good-hearted

Olivia is not Alicent. She’s not a usurper, she’s not a “cunt”. She’s a real person who seems incredibly sweet, warm and loving

Ewan is not Aemond. He’s not a cold murderer. He’s a real person who seems incredibly passionate, charming and intelligent

Fabien is not Criston. He’s not a killer or a “misogynist”. He’s a real person who seems hilarious, good natured and fun

I put “misogynist” and “cunt” in “” because I don’t personally think Criston and Alicent are those things

I could go on and on about each and every one of these cast members and how they aren’t their characters. It seems stupid that I should have to given it’s a FICTIONAL SHOW.

If the actors are compelling you with their performance and are making you feel strongly about their character, THEY ARE DOING THEIR JOB.

It’s gotten to the point where people saying on this site

“Tom’s outfit sucks.”

“Ewan looks shit.”

(actual posts I’ve read)

Has just made me think: why can’t you be kinder.

You can dislike an outfit choice or hairstyle, but choose kinder tones of phrase

You can dislike a character, but don’t direct your negative opinion to the person who plays them

Saying you’re disgusted Ewan is apparently gay because Davey referred to him as his “darling boy”. For one, why are we speculating? It’s not our business what his sexuality is. For two, so what if he is? Love is love, let him be who he is as a person. Support him in his privacy please.

Why can’t we just enjoy these incredibly talented actors and their performances?

Why can’t we rant and celebrate this messed up show without the fear of being accused of being a rape supporter, a groomer or misogynist, just because we enjoy certain characters?

No character in this show is 100% good. That’s what makes it so compelling.

It’s a war between the morally grey.

Please learn from the mistakes the fan base made in season 1, and that it’s continued to do so during this press tour

Please do better

There’s a reason why so many people who enjoy this show hate contributing to the fanbase

There’s a reason why so many of the actors don’t handle their own socials anymore

Please. Be. Kind.

[forgetcakes]

some people in this fandom are so fucking annoying and I am so fucking tired from it

because why the fuck are you moaning about which characters people find interesting and love or which characters they ship together? what kind of fanfictions they write or what kind of fanart they are creating?

"ew you are team this and you are team that"

"You are a rapist apologetic because you love Aegon" "ew you are PedO because you like Daemon"

"ew how can you ship them they are ProBlEmatic"

"ew how can you like Alicent?"

"ew how can you like Aemond?"

"ew people ship Aegon/Rhaenyra"

"ew people ship Aegon/heleana"

"ew people ship Alicent/Rhaenyra" AND SO ON

why the fuck y'all have problems with EVERYTHING

the other day someone commented that they wanted heleana/Aegon scenes and someone replied with "y'all are sick"

like be so fucking for real this is a fictional world with fictional characters this isn't real for fuck's sake let people enjoy whatever they want without harassing them for literally shipping FICTIONAL CHARACTERS in a fictional world

so many people are policing what other people write stan or ship how about y'all worry about actual pedos? instead of harassing someone for literally loving FICTIONAL CHARACTERS

"I hope you will be rap*ed" all because someone likes Aegon y'all need a reality check

why y'all can't just enjoy the show without this BS?

ship literally whatever you want like whoever you want and just enjoy the fucking show and move the fuck on if you don't like something

[la-pheacienne]

Somebody should tell team green moral crusaders that the reason we do not like the scene of Daemon licking his mummy's pussy is not because it's so unFoRGiVAbLe compared to "normal" targcest (lol). It is because it is gratuitous sexposition and pretty cringe. And I am actually able to recognize this as gratuitous sexposition and pretty cringe because I, unlike y'all, watch a TV show with the intention of following a good, entertaining story and relating to the characters on screen. I, unlike y'all, do not watch a TV show with the sole intention of engaging in mental masturbation over the bAd bAd targs. That's not my end goal. That is precisely why I am able to genuinely enjoy many scenes with Otto, Aegon and Criston, (three disgusting, hateful bigots that belong to a "team" I hate), and I enjoy their scenes and their characters because I actually like how the show humanized them and made them relatable even. I understand Otto's disillusionment and anger looking at the chaos caused by his grandson and Criston, I even find it entertaining, I relate to that even if I hate the character. The character makes sense, his scenes are filled with meaning. That is good TV. Aegon's arc is also satisfying, he's an antagonist I can relate to, even if he's a rapist. He feels real to me, I feel something for the character, organically, when I watch his scenes. Good TV. Even Criston is almost funny in his stereotypical bootlicking bigotry and in some scenes I genuinely enjoy watching him because I feel that I understand him. I do not excuse him, I hate him, but I understand him. I know guys like him. The character makes sense, he has a truth in him. Good TV.

Daemon licking his mama's pussy in a dream is not good TV. The scene is there to force a certain subversive interpretation/deconstruction on the viewer via shock but since it is absolutely devoid of substance, it comes off, again, as yet another example of objectification of female sexuality, yet another example of classic GoT sexposition. The reason that this scene has no substance is that we already know that Targs fuck each other. We already know they are an incestuous family. We already know this is a problematic dynamic. The main plot points are enough to showcase this. With that in mind, having one of the core characters of your show, (possibly the book fandom's fave before the show shitfest, and one of the writer's fave characters), lick his mother's pussy as a means of character development does not add anything at all to 1) the narrative if anybody still gives a fuck about it, 2) Daemon's characterization, 3) the themes of the story. Quite the contrary, and even in the hypothesis that Daemon is a pure unambigous villain (and not a "grey" character as grrm calls him lol), even with this assumption, the antagonist becomes cartoonish and the audience feels completely disconnected to him. Which is great if your objective is 1) to get off on incest porn via a hot blonde chick on screen and/or 2) to validate your hate boner for a fictional House whose members are the protagonists of a book and TV series you keep reading and watching while hating the protagonists. It is not great, however, if your objective is to watch a good story with antagonists that have something to say and that feel real and truthful and meaningful.

This antagonist in particular feels ridiculous as if he came straight out of a bad fanfic. And you like that shit. I'm glad to know that the bar is so ridiculously low that you are willing to praise even the cheapest, most typical example of gratuitous titillation aimed at the average GoT fan reddit dudebro, just to prove a point. You actually stoop so low, it is mesmerizing.

[sansa286]

Nothing About Aegon's Character Was Ruined.

I'm sick of this argument.

Nothing about Aegon's character was ruined. He assaults women in F&B. A terrible, virtually irredeemable character having a lot of nuance and a likable side is kind of a staple in ASOIAF and Game of Thrones. Doubly so in GoT. Aegon and Robert Baratheon engage in virtually the exact same behavior, the difference is that HotD is okay with framing Aegon's awful acts as awful and his victims as actual human beings, while Robert's behavior was played up purely for laughs in GoT sans when it came to things that were plot-convenient, like him wanting Daenerys assassinated. In fact one could argue that Aegon and Robert are meant to be parallels of one another - both are kings, drunks, rapists (of both women and girls), abusive husbands, negligent fathers, and shitty brothers. However most of the fandom rides for Robert and even stands behind the show-only decisions, while Aegon is somehow a ruined character despite the fact that he's not even all that different from his book counterpart.

Aegon is an interesting character. He's portrayed expertly by Tom Glynn-Carney. He is fascinating to watch on screen. He has some of the best scenes of season 2. Yes, he sucks and is a bad person morality-wise, but just because a character isn't morally good does not mean they can not be enjoyable. Well-done antagonists are one of the many treats of fiction.

Robert vs Aegon is a great litmus test and testament to how narrative framing is everything. Because had Aegon been framed in the exact same way Robert was, Rhaenyra wouldn't stand a chance fandom wise, and that makes me so sad to think about.

[bbygirl-aemond]

aegon's hypersexuality and unacknowledged victimhood

rape cw for this entire post, including rape of a minor

hello all i'm thinking of tom glynn-carney's aegon ii and wanted to put down some thoughts about his promiscuity. as a side note, i refuse to fuck with rapists and so in stormbreak i lean more towards the book rather than the show when it comes to the rape and the child fighting pits (as in, those things have not happened). but i wanted to comment on a few things: his known penchant for sleeping around, his trip to the brothel with 13-year-old aemond, and his relationship with helaena.

these things probably also provide context for how he became what he is in the show, but i don't want this post to be used to excuse his rape of dyanna at all because nothing can excuse rape. let's discuss further:

if you re-watch hotd, take note of how many times aegon is touched, and the nature of that touch. he is kicked and berated by otto. alicent grips his face tightly and slaps him while shouting him. aemond tackles him to the floor and wrestles him into submission. criston holds his shoulder, yes, but to keep him from running away. alicent kisses his forehead, yes, but as part of a ceremony. the only time aegon receives a loving touch from anyone is when alicent grabs his arm to push him behind her at rhaenys's threat.

this is a boy who is so completely touch-starved he doesn't even know what he's missing even as he hungers for it.

from a psychological standpoint, it's very common for people deprived of affection to seek its closest approximation: the bodily contact required by sex. they can hide behind the defense of simply wanting pleasure, all while secretly treasuring the feeling of someone touching them. not to bruise, not to punish, not to restrain, just for pleasure. if they close their eyes, they can pretend it's for love, too.

i wouldn't be surprised if aegon had his first sexual experience when he was far too young. we see that he likes to slip away from the castle--and is somehow usually successful, despite all the scrutiny upon him due to his position. it's not a far reach to assume that an unhappy, unloved, touch-starved baby aegon might have wandered into a flea bottom brothel and discovered that touch didn't have to hurt. having this very warped relationship with sex while he was too young to understand what he was doing and how it was hurting him influences his entire adult personality.

this would also help to provide context for the completely whack decision to bring aemond to a brothel. at this point, aemond has lost his eye, and i've discussed before here that the injury represented a major turning point in their relationship. aegon has no demonstrated desire to belittle or mock or hurt aemond at any point after the eye incident. i don't think he did this malevolently. i think it was aegon, trying to think of what could help aemond to feel less ugly, less unlovable, turning to the only thing he knew of that could come even close to feeling like love and desire. it wasn't, of course, and he knew that, but it was the only balm he had to soothe his own hurt and it was the only one he knew to offer aemond.

i also really don't see enough discussion of how aegon is a victim of rape within his marriage to helaena. obviously helaena isn't given a choice in marrying aegon and having children with him, but neither is aegon. and we see aegon explicitly express that he doesn't want this, which we haven't actually seen from helaena.

there's a reason helaena says aegon only ever touches her when he's drunk. he cannot bring himself to endure rape when he is sober. there's a reason he ignores his children. they are the product of his own rape, by his own hand.

he feels that he has been forced into the position of perpetrator of assault against helaena, his baby sister. he is the rapist and yet he is also the victim and how is he meant to reconcile the two? how is he meant to look helaena in the eye when the sight of her makes his skin crawl with the memory of having to walk willingly to his own assault? of being forced to be the active party, unable to even lay there and dissociate the way alicent always did with viserys?

and not once does anyone acknowledge what has happened to him. even alicent, who should empathize with him the most, has no sympathy for him in this regard. why would she? she's the one who did this to him.

tldr aegon's relationship to sex is and always has been defined by his victimhood. he fell into dangerous patterns of abuse as a child that no one saved him from, and even as an adult is forced to carry out his own rape like i cannot emphasize enough how fucked up that part is. i don't think he's ever had an experience with sex that didn't make him feel like shit when it was over, if not during. and yet he keeps doing it, keeps hurting himself, because it's the closest thing he thinks he'll ever get--the closest thing he thinks he'll ever deserve--to love.

[vhagarlovebot]

Hi!! I was wondering if you could write something for aegon along the lines of aemond and reader are married but bc aemond wants to give her space and “spare” her of his company and doesnt wanna scare her bc of his appearance and demeanor they dont talk at all and theyre like strangers, sort of like aemond thinks he’s doing the right thing by leaving her be but in reality she just wants to be loved by her husband and one day aegon finds her sobbing about aemond bc she just wants to be loved by him. Bc shes crying abt his “perfect” brother he feels better abt himself bc hes thinking “my brother isnt the perfect son” and so he decides to befriend her and they kind of bond over the fact that theyre both really lonely in kings landing. Ik this is probably rlly off for his character tbh so if you dont want to do it thats okay! Ik some ppl r really iffy abt writing abt aegon so if thats the case just ignore the ask im sorry to bother! But I love ur writing sm and hope u have a great day~

gwen’s note: i need to say this before writing your req because it is important to me. but i really think aegon, as well as many other characters from hotd, is very complex. however we can’t overlook the awful things he’s done, that’s why i think that the only way of writing him is by trying to understand from where it comes, why he is the way he is, etc. (but not defend him, never defend him for being a rapist) and diverge from his character. hotd writers made it really hard to sympathize with him given that the first scene they gave us of older aegon was THAT scene. and again, i would never defend aegon from what he did, that is inexcusable, it does not matter how much he suffered or how alone he feels, he should have never done that. that is why if i write aegon i would always try to get as close as possible to what i think of this complex character (just as i have been doing with aemond) and always have his feelings and experiences in mind, i will never minimize what he and everyone has been through. and bc in fanfic you can write whatever you want, i’ve been saying that since the beginning. aegon is not a good person but i believe that if they give him a chance, he would definitely try to be better. and i fully believe that aegon has a heart and deep down he cares, we see glimpses of that in the show. so after saying that, if i diverge from what the show has showed us about aegon or what YOU think about him, remember that everyone has their own opinions and if you don’t like them, be respectful and simply block me (this is not directed at you but to everyone in general). hope you enjoy! <3

crying in public was not a good idea, but being under the weirwood tree made you miss home.

“do you feel well?” a man’s voice startles you, and you are quick to wipe the tears still falling from your eyes, trying to pull yourself together before turning around.

you are surprised to see prince aegon standing a few feet away from you, genuine concern on his face.

you want very hard to say yes but you can’t say the words, so you just simply shake your head as more tears start falling from your eyes.

aegon doesn’t know what to do. he never knows what to do when someone cries in front of him, he’s not used to this kind of behavior. he can’t remember a time when someone from his family cried in front of him and he comforted them. or if they comforted him. because that never happened. so he doesn’t know if he should keep walking and leave you alone, or ask what’s happening. however, his legs are moving towards you before he can make a decision.

and you don’t know what to do. should you excuse yourself and run out of there? but your legs don’t move and your eyes can’t leave his face, lilac gaze studying your body, but not in a creepy and sexual way. it’s also the first time you and the prince are alone and you thought when that happened, you would feel uncomfortable, rumors fly fast inside and outside the red keep and prince aegon is the main protagonist in all of them. however you feel strangely calm.

“does this have to do with my brother?” aegon dares to ask. he knows your marriage is not an easy one, mostly because aemond is very cold towards you. he has seen you alone together just a couple of times and in all of them you’ve been looking sad and uncomfortable while his younger brother showed nothing with his expression.

it is sad to know prince aegon knows why you’re sad. does everyone in the red keep notice how unhappy you truly are?

aegon sits beside you, his hands on his lap as you move away making space for him on the little bench.

“i just feel so… alone.” you let your guard down, after all he is the one asking and you so desperately need someone to talk to, anyone, and if that person turns out to be the prince, then so be it.

aegon laughs bitterly, looking to his feet playing with a few leaves that had fallen from the tree. he knows that feeling too well, he has been feeling alone his whole life.

“and— and i can’t say anything to him because he doesn’t listen to me. it’s like i’m talking to a wall.” you sob, wiping your nose with the back of your hand.

prince aemond is your husband. but he’s also a total stranger too. you barely talk, he almost never looks at you and you haven’t consummate your marriage, something everyone is expecting for you to do. but how are you supposed to do it when he openly shows how much you bother him?

“i’m a burden to him!” you hide behind your palms, tears still falling from your eyes.

aegon feels a little better to know that his brother is stuck in a loveless marriage just like him. they might be very different but neither of them were able to escape from duty.

however, aegon feels something weird growing in his chest, something that doesn’t make him feel that much better. not while knowing that you’re hurting because of his brother.

aegon parts his lips, debating whether or not to say what he has not say to anyone. ever. because open up to someone is not something aegon targaryen has done before, he’s pretty good at hiding his feelings in a bottle of liquor. or a couple.

“i feel alone, too.” aegon looks for the right words but they don’t come to his mind and he feels very vulnerable. “i am a burden to everyone. my family. the servants. my own father doesn’t want anything to do with me.”

what the prince says is no surprise to you. you’ve heard the servants talking about the prince and how they wish to never be in the receiving end of one of his outbursts.

“see?” he says and you lift your gaze, turning to look at him, who is already looking with his lips curved in a small smile. “we have something in common! we’re not entirely alone.”

the kind gesture of prince aegon of trying to make you feel better is not something anyone would do, not in king’s landing at least, much less by saying something so personal. but it makes you smile through your tears.

it is strange, sitting on a bench with aegon targaryen, talking and being vulnerable. this definitely wasn’t on your list this morning when you woke up, but it is something you’re always going to remember.

“now,” aegon says, drawing out a handkerchief and holding it out to you. shyly, you accept it. “i am sure you miss home and i have nothing else to do… so why don’t you tell me everything i need to know about winterfell?”

your heart fills with pride and longing. and as you wipe your tears you start telling him about those cold and happy days of your childhood while prince aegon listens very closely.

[lovedreamer11]

There are times when I really hate HOTD

You have no idea how much I want the HOTD writers to go to hell. I'm a patient person and I'm used to adaptations being different from the original, but what they did with HOTD is a huge piece of garbage. Adaptations often change appearance, plot, time frame, but a drastic change in personality is something I cannot tolerate.

What the hell happened to Alicent? Maybe the real Alicent was a stepmother from hell, but at least she knew what she wanted and was ready to do anything to achieve what she wanted. What happened to the boastful, arrogant, stupid and hot-tempered Aemond? And Aegon? This guy was a hot-tempered, spoiled hedonist, but not Mr. "I do what my mom says. My parents don't love me. It's time to show everyone my sad eyes."

Rhaenyra and Alicent's "friendship" is just 🤮. What the hell is friendship? From the very beginning, show!Alicent was jealous of show!Rhaenyra's position and status and her relationship with her parents. The real Rhaenyra would never have noticed someone like Alicent, let alone befriend her. Both girls had different upbringings, interests and worldviews. What common topics of communication did they have?

What kind of love are we talking about between Show!Viserys and Show!Rhaenyra? For half the season, all Show!Viserys did was just yell at his daughter and not listen to her, and for the second he looked like the walking dead.

How the writers couldn't come up with anything better than stealing some of Rhaenyra's things. Like her signature black dress, a forced marriage to a man who didn't care about Rhaenyra. Did you notice show!Rhaenyra's dresses and hairstyles? The book literally had a description of how Rhaenyra dressed and what hairstyle she preferred, but the writers apparently read the book from Wikipedia and skipped every second word.

I showed my friend, who hasn't watched the show and doesn't know anything about GOT or HOTD, photos of young show!Rhaenyra and show!Alicent from the series and asked what she thought. Do you know what the answer was? My friend decided that show!Alicent was a princess and show!Rhaenyra was a servant.

Just look at the banners they made for the second season. The green banner is really nice, but the black banner looks like a cheap towel.

What about the blacks on the show? How stupid must a girl be, who grew up in a world in which the main purpose of a woman is marriage and the birth of an heir, and who is the heir to the throne, to think that she can avoid marriage? The real Viserys didn't give Rhaenyra a choice and chose her husband himself, but did show!Rhaenyra really think she could avoid marriage? Show!Raenyra is the height of stupidity and absurdity, which constantly contradicts itself.

And Daemon? I really feel sorry for Matt. He is a talented actor and tries very hard. I think if the show had more skilled writers, he could have portrayed the real Daemon. But show!Daemon is a stupid, illogical, absurd clown who doesn’t understand what he wants and doesn’t follow through. This character has so many fans solely because of Matt's charisma, the writers should kiss his feet for that.

And of course, my favorite. There's only been one season out, but the writers have already demonstrated their style of throwing aside logic for the sake of effect. I mean, show!Laena's self-immolation and the way show!Rhaenys ruined show!Aegon's coronation. Do you know what the people who work on the show said in interviews? They added these scenes because they thought it would be cooler and more impressive. Wasn’t the creators of GOT guided by a similar point of view when working on the plot of the last seasons of the show?

And now, because of this show, a lot of people have come out of nowhere to argue that women should not hold leadership positions, remain silent and accept neglect because it is necessary, and rapists and aggressors can be forgiven if they are played by beautiful actors or if the characters lacked parental support love. According to this logic, people should love Joffrey and Ramsay since they both also lacked parental love in childhood.

This show really had potential and a good cast. But the screenwriters' work destroyed everything from the very beginning. Many people still have hopes that everything will be better in the second season, but I am in despair. No, seriously, look at the team banners for season two. They really did a good job on the green banner and that would be fine if the black banner wasn’t yet another proof of the writers’ bias. Black team, we have no hope.

[peachysunrize]

Now the green fandom loathes Alicent and especially Aemond. But they always defended Aegon's character and called every bad or stupid thing he'd done as a bad writing and writers' bias. I'm not saying this wasn't sometimes true, but still. Why not apply the same criteria to Aemond? I guess I can't even consider myself to be a green anymore since I like the characters - Aemond and Alicent (even though I hate some of the writing decisions regarding their arcs) they now hate with fervor and there is no safe space for me lol. Not to mention that those are the same characters that brought me to the green side. What's your opinion on this?

Finally someone with common sense finally!!

Before I write my answer, please for the love of god don’t read this if you hate Aemond or are a mad aegon wife. I’m not looking for any drama, this is my opinion and many will not agree so simply don’t read if you don’t like Aemond. I’m an aemond apologist so. Answer under the cut

Aemond is the only villain in this story that is a villain. A real villain who is ambitious and cunning and smart. He has a righteous god complex and knows what he wants.

I agree that him betraying his brother was a bad writing decision, but with the scene we got, it truly made me wonder did he mean it? Yes, yes he did, but not in a sense I’m going to KFC my brother, no, he just didn’t care Aegon was tangled with Meleys.

He didn’t give a fuck just as Aegon didn’t give a fuck about him all his life. He’s a twat, the pink dread, his 13 birthday, the brothel etc.

My problem is that people whitewashed Aegon’s misdeeds. They bluntly ignored the very obvious rape allegations against him. He is a rapist, as much as the show tries to show him as this beautiful and amazing human being he’s still a rapist. I love Aegon and what Aemond did made me cry for him but that doesn’t mean he’s not a bad person.

He is tragic. They both are. Complex characters ruined by Condal & co.

But now, suddenly Aemond is the worst person in the fandom because he is at war and betrayed his brother. Suddenly Aegon wives are sending hate towards Aemond’s appearances, calling him ugly, bodyshaming him again, going on and on about him.

We could have gotten this amazing sibling rivalry but they just made it into something that made this fandom less enjoyable than it already was

ABOUT ALICENT OH MY GOSH

Again I agree that she had no right to verbally abuse Aegon, the son she had to endure marital rape to bring to this world. It was such a dumb writing decision, now not only she is a bad mother but she’s an abuser too.

There is a very obvious misogynistic way of writing Alicent in the show by men who have only heard about misogyny through other tv shows and Andrew Tate instagram edits.

Alicent put Aegon on the throne to save her children’s lives!!!!!! And now she is this dumb stupid woman who can’t even bring herself to like her children.

I hate hate this season’s writing. So many plot holes, so misogynistic, so dumb. That’s why I can never hate these characters, even how bad they’re butchering them.

[starsandstars]

I'm sad because it seems like everyone hates Aegon and I don't think Tom will be nominated for an Emmy or win. It seems that everyone has watched the series in such a superficial way, it's all about blood and action and who will win in the end. Please, where is the appreciation for tragedy, for complex characters who aren't just good or evil? It seems that people just want to be right and don't watch the show with a closer eye. Tom seems to be so passionate about the craft and tries so hard to play Aegon, I hope he's not sad to see that people aren't understanding the character as they should or aren't as excited as he is. Every time someone says that he deserves the Emmy, other people comment: but actor x also, actor y deserves more and honestly, in my opinion it's clear that he was the biggest highlight (this is regardless of whether I like the actor or not).I hope that the influence of George r.r martin (who praised his performance) will help Tom to have more chances, because I feel that we are alone.

If not nominated for an Emmy now, he will be getting his awards soon enough. Tom is an incredible actor, I watched some of his projects (you can find many of his short films on Vimeo) and especially in Regulars, where he plays a psychopath, you can see he really is an impressive actor (if you even have any doubts after watching him as Aegon, that is). I think his career might now hopefully take off in a similar manner as Barry Koeghan's did (who he already has one movie with coincidentally, haha).

About Aegon.. I sadly have to understand all these people who don't like him. It is really really hard to like a rapist. They should have never made Aegon one, if they wanted people to sympathise with him (maybe they didn't want that and Tom just made him cool like that on his own, I have not decided on that one). Regardless, there is a big difference between murder and rape (there just is, idk how to explain), you can root for a murderer, there are plenty examples of likeable villains after all, but rapist? That's just icky. I had a major crisis over my liking for Aegon in the beginning of the second season, before I decided to just retcon it in my mind. But I still understand people, who just won't cross that line, no matter all his other qualities, even though it is such a shame.

But if it is any consolation, there was a poll on redit about "best written main character of season 2 so far" (after ep 5) and the result was rather satisfying (and not at all unexpectedle). Sometimes you read one or two opinions and feel like everyone thinks like that, but it is not always the truth. I think Aegon was well liked even by general audience and the lightness he brought to the show was well missed after Rook's Rest.

Now I just hope well get some scenes of him with oranges and cinnamon in season 3, hehe (and maybe Haymitch Abernathy👀? I am sure Harry would appreciate that, too lmao)