#discourse manipulation

[thats-the-biz-babe]

isn't it funny how eddie getting right up in buck's face and shouting at him for no reason, and guilt tripping and shaming him for having feelings = peak romance

but tommy calling buck by his name, looking after him and giving him an ice pack and painkillers when he's injured, noticing when he's not okay and checking in on how he's feeling, even dressing up in a suit and driving with him to a cemetery so he can make a speech to a dead cowboy in order to break a curse he doesn't believe in = abusive behaviour

[alchemistc]

There's been something about the woobification of Buck that's been sitting on the tip of my tongue for weeks now, and I think I've finally figured it out.

This is, of course, mostly in reference to the moral outrage about a decade-ish (give or take) age gap between two adult men and the infantalization of one said grown man, so all the puritanism isn't really coming from a place of good faith anyway, but here's the thing that's been bugging me that I couldn't quite put a finger on until now.

Buck has people he goes to for certain things. He has, what are in his mind, experts in the field for most of the things he can't think through on his own, that he goes to for a sounding board.

He went to Hen to talk through the sperm donor dilemma for a few reasons that made sense to him. 1) She's a mom. She has very much had to deal with the reality of 'giving up' children she considered her own. Buck is aware that he would be giving up something that could mean something to him, and he wants to talk to someone who has some insight into that. 2) She's dealt with IVF. She knows the risks, she knows the trials and tribulations, she knows about this thing that he is thinking about agreeing to be a part of so she's going to have a fuller grasp on the enormity of everything this process entails.

And they drink about it. Hen gives him what she can and cautions him where she thinks she should and they continue to talk about it and regardless of what SHE thinks, he makes his mind up in part because he got to talk to his Expert.

Bobby is often his go to when he feels like he's losing his grip on things. He's seen Bobby staring down the bottom of the bottle. He's seen the work he's done to pull himself back into the world, and he's seen the way he fights for his family, his people. Buck leans on him in times of questioning himself because he knows Bobby has pulled himself off the ledge with bleeding hands and a bleeding heart.

He reaches out to Maddie about interpersonal shit constantly. We see it all the way back in S2 when he's starting to question what the hell he's still doing in Abby's apartment, and that never really changes. She's the one with advice for him when he's angry with his parents, upset with the firefam, worried about his friends, or just generally concerned with the way he's perceived by people or how he perceives the world. He goes to her when he's embarrassed, ashamed, because he knows she won't judge him for it. She'll call him out, for sure, but she's not going to look at him differently when she knows he's done something he considers bad behavior.

When he goes to her during the Tommy arc, he's there for one reason he'll admit, and another she has to ferret out. 1) He lied to his best friend and he doesn't know why. 2) Oh yeah he went on a date with a dude that's not strange WHY IS THAT STRANGE I'VE ALWAYS BEEN AN ALLY PLEASE DON'T PULL BACK THE CURTAIN - and Maddie is there with two things: 1) It's not weird but it IS new and something you clearly haven't worked through all the way which is why 2) you'll tell Eddie when you're ready

And Eddie is sort of his go-to to bounce ideas off of. Eddie is his Buck expert. Eddie is the guy who can sort through all the bullshit and who sees Buck for exactly who he is, every time, regardless of what Buck himself is thinking. Eddie is his best friend, and he knows the good the bad and the ugly better than anyone else. He is also, quite frankly, the one Buck seeks out to help him contextualize all of his romantic feelings for people. Eddie's the guy he talks to when he's interested in someone, when he's falling for someone, he's the guy through which Buck filters his love interests into the firefam. I do the same shit with my best friend. It's instinct to want the person you consider the expert on you to meet the person you are interested in, it's instinct to want them to like each other, to get along. Buck knows Eddie loves him (in whatever way you see that love, Buck knows Eddie loves him) and he wants this person who loves him to be at least an active listener as he talks himself through the minefield of relationships. I do also think that up until the events of season seven, Buck considers Eddie sort of an expert on that traditional love-marriage-kids-white-picket-fence relationship Buck thinks he's striving for - in a very naive way, because obviously the wasn't what Eddie and Shannon had and Buck knows that, but he's probably fed some of Eddie's rose colored reminiscences back into that notion.

When he comes out to Eddie he's got two worries. 1) I lied to you and I figured out why but I'm still a little worried you think it's weird and 2) I screwed it up with someone I really like and I don't know where to go from here.

And Eddie (Buck expert) reassures him that just because it's new and unexpected doesn't make it strange, that it doesn't change anything in their friendship. And then he gets right to the heart of it - if you like him you should reach out and tell him that. He doesn't know you like we do but if you give him the chance to, he'll love you as much as we do. If he doesn't give it the same shot you want to he's the idiot.

With all that context in mind, Buck isn't seeking out Tommy's attention because he wants an authority figure, or someone to take care of him, someone to guide him through sex or love or relationship dynamics or any of the other random shit I've seen ppl infantalizing Buck about.

What he's looking for, and what he ultimately tells Tommy he'd like to pursue, is a partnership. Someone to walk (or more likely for Buck, speedrun) through experiences together. The Athena to his Bobby, the Chim to his Maddie, the Karen to his Hen.

So every time I see someone infantalizing Buck for seeking out a relationship with an older man for X or Y reason, I'm just like - no. He has Bobby, Hen, Maddie, Eddie, Chim etc for that. He doesn't want or need Tommy for that. He is a grown ass man who has built these strong relationships with his peers and his mentors and he is so fucking aware of that because he reaches for their help any time he feels the urge for a helping hand.

So yeah, Tommy's older. Yes, Tommy has more experience with his sexuality than Buck. And that - that's really it. Buck's been in the same career for more than half a decade. He's lived on his own since he was no older than 19/20. He's had serious relationships, he has a rich and fulfilling life. There is no power imbalance in the relationship between Buck and Tommy.

And while the age gap may be a bit of a draw for Buck, it's not WHY he's attracted to Tommy. We know because he's told Maddie. He's cool. He's interesting. He's confident. He has a cleft.

Buck isn't going into this waiting for someone older and more experienced to take the fucking reins. He felt like he clicked with Tommy, like there was an immediate connection, and yes, Tommy had to kiss him about it for Buck to actually figure out what it was he was experiencing, but from that point on it was all on Buck (and the people he leans on for advice) to help him sort through.

Tommy didn't do shit other than pump the brakes and try to give Buck the space he thought he needed to decide what he was ready for. Buck (again, with the help of his experts - Maddie for the emotional piece of it, Eddie for the Buck of it all) did the work on his own. Tommy didn't swoop in and overbearingly hold his hand through a sexual awakening. He kissed him, asked him out, realized he wasn't ready, stepped back and then checked in multiple times when Buck came back at it going 120 miles an hour.

And then he did everything he could to prove to Buck he wanted the same thing - a partner, someone to talk to, and lean on, and flirt with and rely on to show up whenever they could feasibly manage it (and sometimes when it's a little unfeasible too).

The narrative even acknowledges that Buck had no reason to go to Bobby in this scenario, when he often would, and lays out exactly why.

Within the canon of this particular arc, we're meant to see this as Buck realizing he has the experience necessary to think these things through on his own. This is Buck finally taking control of something that's always felt like it fell into his lap a bit. This is Buck doing more than treading water until his legs give out.

And minimizing that growth bc you personally don't like the LI he's pursuing is gross at best. At worst it's something much more insidious.

[splitpierrot]

saw a take on bedman so bad i had to make this

(*yeah i know we dont know his age but imo hes prolly not much older than delilah)

[sw1ft-sniff]

Hey, anyone who has been really engaged with the drama these past few days, make sure you take a break ok, make sure you look out for yourselves and your own mental health, it��s rough and we all have to look out for each other. We know that dream is manipulating and changing the story and lying, just make sure you don’t get to bogged down into it. Please everyone take a break if you need it, cause I sure do know I need one.

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

stans when aang and steven don’t kill the genocidal war criminals they’re fighting against: omg they’re so incompetent! these shows are telling us to side with the villains!! i hate these literal kids who made the best choice they could make under difficult circumstances 😡🤢

stans when adora not only spares a genocidal war criminal but also starts dating them: love wins! spop is such a beautiful story of acceptance and forgiveness. everyone deserves a second chance, even someone who willingly tried to end all space and time <3

[burr-ell]

I'm gonna be real, as a Southern white woman: the way some folks in the CR fandom have been talking about Southern white women and the South in general in relation to Imogen (and by extension Liliana) is weird, infantilizing, and distinctly indifferent to the actual voices and lived experiences of nonwhite people. It claims to be critical, but it has more interest in sympathy and pity and making excuses than anyone ever having to face realistic, justified consequences. Your pain is valid, but your white middle class experience—whether you're queer, a woman, neurodivergent, or some combination thereof—is not the central lens through which your favorite stories must be viewed lest the rest of us be misogynist lesbophobes. The fact that the litmus test for who is and isn't a true feminist activist is whether or not you endlessly coo and simper over the feelings of a skinny femme white woman (and have all the "correct" headcanons about her) does not give me confidence that any of you are interested in a perspective remotely different from your own—or indeed, actually doing any of the hard work necessary to help make things materially better for the South in real life.

[ominous-horse-noises]

main takeaway from certain fan reactions to the finale is this:

the final scene with ankarna was so meaningful to the bad kids' arcs and how they made peace with being wronged by people they loved, and if all you can focus on is that the rat grinders didn't get much screentime, then you don't love dimension20 and you don't love this world: you want to be playing your own hs themed dnd campaign and you're mad the oc versions of the rat grinders you made up in your head acted ooc. these are not your characters and this is not their story.

[taradactyls]

"Willoughby could not hear of her marriage without a pang; ... For Marianne, however, in spite of his incivility in surviving her loss, he always retained that decided regard which interested him in every thing that befell her, and made her his secret standard of perfection in woman; and many a rising beauty would be slighted by him in after-days as bearing no comparison with Mrs. Brandon."

I'm normally too focused on 'well, well, if it isn't the consequences of your own actions' to really think about how this sort of thing would affect Marianne, but I mean, it's quite creepy, right??

Imagine you're living your life, happy with your husband, healed and flourishing, and every now and then you find out your HORRID ex is insulting other young women (and they must be young, if they're a 'rising beauty') by invoking your name. Like leave her alone, Willoughby!! You hurt her enough. She was 17 (to your 25) when she was in love with you, she's grown up, seen you for who you really are, and moved on. There's something incredibly selfish about even after treating Marianne so horribly, he refuses to stop associating her name with his own. I wonder how many people would know of Marianne PURELY because Willoughby casually mentions (many times) a young lady has no resemblance to her.

No one wants their worst ex to keep haunting the edges of their life.

[spacecasehobbit]

"Nobody cares about-", "I know no one will care, but-"

Okay. Look. Here's the thing: Are you a person? Do you care?

If you answered 'yes' to both of the above, then congratulations! Someone does care about the thing!

Given that very few people are wholly unique on this planet Earth of ours: If you care? Then there are probably other people out here who care, too.

[kinnbig]

in relation to this tweet from Jojo, which I love - I’m amazed by the number of posts I’ve seen suggesting that Nick is an innocent victim of manipulation from Boston. no one is saying Boston isn’t messy as fuck, but he’s been so clear about his feelings and what he is/isn’t looking for. he’s told Nick multiple times that while their relationship might develop in the future, he is only interested in casual sex for now - and Nick has willingly agreed to this kind of casual, non-exclusive relationship. Boston has absolutely no obligation to be ‘faithful’ to Nick, or to tell him which of his friends he’s attracted to. Nick wanting things to be different doesn’t make it so.

violating privacy and boundaries is clearly a theme with Nick - he expresses interest in Boston by leaving suggestive photos on Boston’s phone, having already gone through (and jerked off to) Boston’s personal pictures. bugging his car takes it a step further.

(I think there’s something to be said about the way Boston’s promiscuity and open sexuality seems to make his right to privacy seem trivial or less important than that of someone more reserved - it’s fine that Nick jerked off to Boston’s personal photos, because Boston slept with him after; Nick only secretly recoded Boston having sex because Boston led him on; Boston’s a whore, so it doesn’t matter, he was asking for it… but that’s a post for another day)

this isn’t to say that Boston is an innocent victim of Nick’s behaviour either - my point is that categorising them simply as Manipulator and Victim is reductive to the complexity of both characters. they’re both interesting, fucked up, flawed people, and that’s what makes them compelling as characters - and what makes it fun to watch as they make each other worse.

[dead-inside-demiboy]

Everytime I see people get upset about any form of media, especially indie/youtube stuff because the creators werent "inclusive" enough or "did it wrong" I just remember my irl friend, a cishet white guy who is fully an ally and friends with many poc, queer, and trans people telling me how he ran a dnd campaign with a group of characters that were each a color, and how his players were disappointed cause he made the only female one pink and the only non binary one the robot, and how the two of us had a good laugh about it.

Like give these people a break sometimes, we are all human, and especially if you aren't a part of a minority, sometimes you just want to tell a story and aren't thinking of how many brownie points you can slip in. Also, we are all dumbasses! Irl we let the people in our life be stupid sometimes, lets extend the same kindness online please.

Yes, inclusivity is great and we should be asking larger companies to tell more stories with different perspectives, but also lets not harass people and indie storytellers for these same things please? We are all stupid humans and a lot of people don't have the big eye of the internet to give them the "correct" beliefs.

[crimeboys]

if dream has taught me anything it's that the next time trinket qjaiden calls me a bitch i should open up twitch and do a 3 hour stream misconstruing its every action

[ceratedfish24]

I am currently in a bad mood due to this one Tumblr creator kinda dragging Scott repeatedly. Their takes just rub me the wrong way.

They made this one post, which is so hilarious (it made me want to put the phone) where they were talking about Martyn's betrayal in Limited Life and Scott's reaction to said betrayal.

They claimed that Scott felt the need to gain some sort of moral high ground just because he wasn't particularly upset (or showed he was upset) that Martyn killed him, and just — what????

And their general talks about Pearl and Scott also feel odd.

Man, that sucks. I bet they didn’t say anything about how Pearl wanted to give her life for Scar in Secret Life. If Scott not being mad that Martyn killed him cause Scott had already won is “gaining moral high ground”, then Pearl trying to sacrifice herself is exactly the same. Except, neither of them are clawing for moral high ground because that’s insane. They’ve just won before and wouldn’t want to win again. Scott is literally known for sacrificing himself for his allies, because why wouldn’t he? What would he gain from sincerely trying to win? They would’ve been so much angrier if Scott had won. What would they have rather Scott do? Throw a tantrum? In the last 5 seconds of his finale? Scott is the calmest person in the Life Series.

Scott was going to sacrifice his life to Martyn, and he knew that Martyn would take it without hesitation. It’s Martyn, and Scott was already a winner. In Limited Life, Bdubs sacrificed himself for Jimmy, even though they’re on opposing teams. Is that gaining moral high ground? In Secret Life, was giving hearts to players who needed it even though it didn’t really benefit you gaining moral high ground? The idea that every nice thing Scott does comes from a place of malice or selfishness is so terribly hypocritical.

I’m sorry, but they sound sexist.

A lot of the hate towards Scott comes from the stereotype of male villains with distinct non-masculine traits, like trickster gods. There’s this idea that non-masculine men must be insecure, otherwise they have some kind of secret or ulterior motive. Scott is a confident man who generally doesn’t fit most people’s definition of “masculine”, and that makes people think that he must be fake or up to something. People don’t fit into your ugly little stereotypes. People are not constructed to fit into boxes. It doesn’t matter how sweet Scott is or much good he does or how much his (overwhelmingly large number of) friends support him and refer to him as one of the most wonderful people they know (No for real I’ve never seen a bigger extrovert how does he maintain close relationships with so many people). Scott being a confident non-masculine man makes people think that he is a manipulator.

As for the Scott and Pearl stuff, if they’re saying what most other people who say weird things about Scott and Pearl are saying, then that is so incredibly hypocritical. I have seen a lot of people saying that Scott and Cleo shouldn’t have teamed with Pearl this season because they’re going to betray her (they did not)(why would they). This is strange for Cleo because Cleo has no history of betraying anyone without being provoked and Cleo has never been on Pearl’s team for an extended period of time, so there isn’t even history to refer to. This is hypocritical for Scott because Scott defended and avenged Pearl when he was her ally in Last Life and left her in Double Life because what was he supposed to do? Team up with Pearl for two seasons in a row? After he won the first season with Pearl? The same people complaining about him now would’ve been outraged. Scott leaving Pearl was provoked; it just wasn’t Pearl doing the provoking. It’s the fandom’s fault that Scott didn’t feel safe teaming with Pearl again, and what with what happened to Grian and Scar? It’s not surprising. Scott made the safest call for everyone. Don’t whine about Scott leaving Pearl when he did it because you’ve proven that you can’t handle when the same people pair up. The only exception is TIES and BEST, and that’s not entirely the same group of people.

Scott is a delightful person, and there’s no evidence of Scott having done anything that would suggest that he’s manipulative. Sometimes people are just normal.

That’s really rough, Anon. I’m glad that you felt comfortable seeking support here.🩵 Sending you a virtual hug and a slightly derpy photo of my dog, “Royal Caramel Sundae”.

[ganondoodle]

i find it funny how people are trying to "prove" that Radahn agreed to Miquellas plan with how Miquella calls it 'our vow' and that Freyas ok with it ... like both of those arent yet again other peoples words, and still nothing of his side, ever

(let me just say, i feel like its important that its meticulously avoided to ever let Radahn speak, hes not in the cutscene of Miquella making his wish, the only two (?) quotes we get in descriptions all have nothing to do with any of it- could you imagine if he didnt even know? like the time Malenia stomping into his land being literally the first time he hears of it which uh .. how would you even resist that, other than try to not die by any means, since Miquella was probably out of reach already and youd do best to stay as far away as you can anyway if you knew he charms people)

also i saw in the comments of one of the very few videos i watched on the topic someone suggesting that using Mohgs body is yet another way to make it easier to control since Mohgs been under the spell for who knows how long already, 'broken into'- i just wondered .. so what if that was all planned too, like that Malenia using her rot on Radahn wasnt a last ditch effort to try and kill him, but instead have him rot away, slowly getting weaker and easier to finish off, buying time for Miquella to do all his discarding of important things he shouldnt discard while putting essentially a time bomb on Radahn.. AND to destroy his original body so it could later be discarded and whatever was left of his soul be put into Mohgs corpse instead to subdue his own will even further

[spop-romanticizes-abuse]

oh, and did i mention attempted murder?

as you can tell, i'm gonna be using this meme format a lot