#especially because of the 'batman is an urban legend' retcon!!!!!!

[roseworth]

hi

jason wasn't close to many other heroes before he died, and most of the ones he was close with told stories about him as a cautionary tale. he became a story filled with half-truths about his life that was passed down to new heroes to tell them about the dangers of being a hero. bruce and dick knew him best but they're emotionally closed off and don't know how to talk about the good things. even cass only knew him as the robin that died for years.

do you think that there are people that didnt think he was real? new heroes that didnt know a lot about batman and robin hearing that there was a robin before the current one that was killed, and they just assume its a made-up story to scare them? when batman and robin became an urban legend, jason did too. he stops being a hero that wanted the best for the people he loved, and instead became a horror story about what happens when you don't listen.

[damianbugs]

dc might not like to address how they've unofficially retconned a lot of jasons original robin run to end up being absolutely classist, but i most certainly will bring it up whenever i can. while this is definitely narrative criticism, it is more of a study, as i am not expecting anyone, readers or dc, to really change how they view the todds.

jason goes from being a rather reserved, kind and genuinely friendly child to an angry and cruel boy who was contemplating murder at some point (batman: urban legends). not to mention willis going from an absent but well meaning man who turned to crime to support his family to now being an abusive father and husband. catherine todd was originally stated to have died from overdose, but was later confirmed in death in the family to pass away from cancer, so while the 'poor addict mother' stereotype still applies, it is more complicated in her case.

it is no surprise that in modern tellings, all three of them represent very realistic forms of poverty. willis the abusive criminal, catherine the addict (her battle with cancer is always noticeably left out) and jason the violent child left to repeat the cycle.

dc simply couldn't allow the todd family to remain poor but an all in all good family (though i am careful to say they were perfect, past or present, since depending how you read him, willis can still be seen as a bad father and horrible husband), and instead had to dramatise negative stereotypes of poor people in order to really perpetuate the existence of jason being the "angry" robin. this mostly comes down to dc perhaps wanting to bury older comics featuring the original characterisation (since the only way to read them is through piracy), and there is no better way to do that than make his current characterisation nothing like his old one, at all.

after all, how else can we ensure readers are aware of how angry, evil and emotionally unstable jason todd is, if not making his life the pinnacle of why poor people are terrible and should not have kids? dc is not trying to hide it at all, it's almost laughable.

while the blatant classism is very clearly the biggest issue, from a storytelling perspective it is also really disappointing. deconstructing catherine and willis todd to their morally reprehensible, abusive and neglectful 2d personalities in modern telling leaves a massive gap is what made jason so personable as robin. personally, i also think it takes away how homelessness and his own poverty seperate from his family might have affected jason's morals and opinions on certain topics — another aspect of his character that is very important but often undeveloped.

especially with jason; making him having always been this quick to rage and violent child/robin takes away the true devastation of his death and subsequent revival. he died an innocent, damaged and complicated but caring boy, and came back vengeful and spiteful. he is a boy who has suffered a lot in life, with a sick mother he had to provide for due to his absent father, who also died due to a life of crime — and yet jason broke free from the cycle and became something more.

he loved to learn, to go to school, to play sports and to help people. he loved being a hero, even when it got tough, and though sometimes it was hard to remember, he always tried to stay on the bright side of things.

it's one of the main reasons bruce is so unable to process and accept his son's return, because to him, the person who came back is not the son he lost. though, that is another conversation entirely.

on the one hand however, i can see why jason's current life story might be more appealing to certain readers (and depending on the work, fanon or canon, it can makes more sense). since now that he's broken out of the cycle of abuse, he can use his strength to protect other vulnerable people. the true 'people's hero' in a way batman and other adjacent vigilantes can not be.

it is just a little regrettable that to fulfill this, he and his family must adhere to classist stereotypes to make it more believable. after all, jason was very much the 'people's robin' even without all the retcons to his character. he has always stood up for people who couldn't do it themselves.

[whalehouse1]

The Red Hood Problem (for me):

This is more for the comic than the show since I think the movie did a much better job at Bruce than the comic did.

Jason is now a murderer after this comic, this part is fine since he can still operate in Gotham having that be true (Cass, Jean-Paul, Damian, Tim, etc.) but the way they went about it doesn’t work for me. His resurrection has him come back, go on a frenzy and kill some of Ra’s’ men before he flees into the desert. Now where his mind is at here is debated, but if he survived the desert he must have been “sane” at one point. Or you like Lost Days and the Al Ghuls just picked him back up to train him, which that’s a different issue I have with Batman comics. He then gets back to Gotham and ruthlessly kills drug lords, pimps and other such criminals as it’s the only way to protect Gotham. This is where my first problem comes into play. Jason’s father was a criminal who died due to Two-Face and his mother (Catherine, that other woman can burn for all I care) died of a drug overdose. So him coming from that background had to be retconned so he wouldn’t go “oh extreme poverty and desperation can lead people to do things they wouldn’t consider otherwise”, but instead go to the classic, “my dad beat me so it’s okay that I became an orphan”, because then he’d have to be shown recognizing that killing people could result in leaving people behind much worse off. They try to do this in Urban Legends but Jason just seems a little off character there, especially knowing Tyler’s mom might not make it along with him just being a lack of impulse control personified. Then on top of them retconning (read gaslighting) his parents, they also keep trying to rewrite him as this super grumpy Robin who just would attack without thought. But we have the original Jason stories, he was rough around the edges, sure, but he wasn’t cruel or nasty or more violent than other Robins. And that’s what makes Red Hood so tragic, is he lost his joy and became resentful instead. He still kept his kindness in well-written stories, because he’s the same as Cass when it comes to bleeding hearts. If they can’t save someone they go full on Bruce moping mode. But nope, now we have Jason who couldn’t care less about saving people, he just wants to sow discord. And I know it was all to get the Joker out of Arkham, which just shows Jason as stupid (he isn’t but they love putting the stupid Robin label on him and Steph) since if he waited a day or two, Joker would be back on the streets. Then we get to my final issue, aside from Bruce not wanting to kill Joker but having no issue slicing Jason’s throat. It completely invalidates so much of Bruce’s decision to not kill the Joker that the hypocrisy leaks through the page and destroys any reason Jason could hold onto the “He didn’t kill because it’s his one rule” which yes is understandably frustrating for Jason but at least could give him some reason to think Bruce didn’t just value him as a body on the job. Which Bruce didn’t, Bruce, before some twats got allowed to write him, loved his children unconditionally, spent time with them and was a good father to them. This dunks on that harder than him and Dick in Infinite Crisis. It also perpetuates the Batman/Joker Optimus Prime/Megatron dynamic of “we’re made for each other to kill!!!”, which I’m fine with when it’s the Joker thinking that but not Batman. These rogues do not mean more to him than his children. He assaulted Two-Face, one of his closest friends when he attacked Dick, extremely violently might I add, but Joker gets a pass because “they’re the same you and I”? No that’s some BS right there. Also it cements the Red Hood backstory and I’m firmly anti-backstory Joker. But the actual final problem is the redemption part of his story. Writers don’t seem to do this and have him revert back to killing or he uses non-lethal rounds 😑, but it usually comes out of nowhere and it never is satisfactory. Have him keep killing and have the Bats have to put him away or actually write character growth for him in the Batman comic so it can more easily bleed over. But they won’t since edge lords sell. I absolutely love Jason and I as much as I wish you could retcon his death.

[scandalsavagefanfic]

Hello! I am a huge fan of ur writing. I've loved everything I've read of yours. I've read alot of what you've posted, except for a couple of the tags that are squicky for me (so I'm very thankful you tag very thoroughly). No judgement for the squick, it's just not for me. & when I'm having a bad day, I usually just go thru ur ao3 and find something to reread. I think about Therapy's Bruce & Jason every damn day. While I obvs appreciate ur darker more "problematic" content (I really vibe with some of the themes you write about bc of my own trauma, & so it's very cathartic to read about in a fictional setting), I am truly a sucker for ur more happy content. The Happily Ever After verse also lives in my head rent free. Idk more wholesome stuff just seems more special when you write it. Anyways. I would die for you. But the point of this ask is cause I'm curious as to why you don't like Urban Legends? I'm sorry if you already talked about it here or on twitter and I missed it. I was just wondering because I really enjoy your take on things and would love to hear why you dislike it. I've been enjoying it so far personally, but I am always open to DC comics criticism.

Aw thank you so much! I'm so flattered by everything you just said. You're so sweet ❤❤❤❤❤

I haven't talked about Urban Legends here or twitter (I haven't been very active in either place lately. Just a lot going on and no energy 😔) but I'm happy to do it here.

Before I start though, I just want to add a standard disclaimer and make it clear that if you like it, there's nothing wrong with that and you don't have to let me ruin it for you lol. Like what you like.

That said, since you asked...

I said this when I was talking about it on discord, that there is a difference between hope and expectation. I always hope that a new story centered on Jason (or anyone really, but things have been especially egregious for Jay for 15 years) will be good or at least treat the character with a minimal level of respect (to be honest, the bar is super fucking low). But my expectations always temper my hope, to keep it from getting unrealistic. Because my expectations are based on experience.

The long history of Jason Todd, since even before his resurrection, has been one of retroactively trying to make him "a bad seed" in order to absolve Bruce of any responsibility in his death.

I don't even expect DC or their writers to start honoring the fact that Jason was not an angry, reckless Robin (and less of the later than Dick or Tim and definitely Damian). There plenty of ways that retcon can be folded into his history and be compelling and sympathetic. And if they're going to stick with that retcon, I'm only asking that they do it in one of those compelling and sympathetic ways because Jason was 15 when he died, heroically, in one of the most selfless acts in comics, to save a woman who literally handed him over to be brutally murdered. He was 12 when Bruce plucked him off the streets, he'd been homeless and fending for himself for at least two years. I personally think that Jason's story hits harder for him and Bruce if their original, canon relationship, of Jason as starry-eyed and eager to learn and absolutely devoted to Bruce and Bruce to Jason, is preserved. But Jason's origins does leave room for a meaningful interpretation of him as angry and frustrated at the lack of meaningful results of Bruce's methods.

And that's really where my irritation at stories like Batman: Urban Legends, Cheer and Batman The Adventure Continues has it's roots.

Every time one of these stories comes out, I think (or hope, rather) that this will be the one that remembers and respects the origins of the Jason and the Red Hood, that takes into account the changed sensibilities of comics readers in the 30 years since Jason's death and the subtle, 20 year, retroactive campaign to make him the "bad Robin". The "born bad" trope is played out and literally no one likes the message it implies. That some kids are just bad eggs and there's nothing parents or the adults around them can do. Especially when it's played as the kid's fault. If Jason's time as Robin is going to be characterized by anger, then it should be rooted in anger at the social injustices he witnessed as he grew up in an impoverished, crime-ridden, area and the horrors he faced raising himself when every day was a battle for survival. There are topical, meaningful, stories to tell with that backdrop.

But those are never the stories we get.

⚠⚠ Spoilers for Batman: Urban Legends, Cheer ⚠⚠

I'm particularly disappointed in Urban Legends because for the first issue, it looked like that was the kind of story we were going to get. I was put off by the first flashback of Jason being mesmerized by Bruce's guns, and I got that feeling in my gut that it was a bad sign. Jason depicted as impatient and overconfident and the scene with the guns is heavy-handed foreshadowing that got my spidey-sense tingling. I had a inkling then (in the first three pages) of how this story was going to play out, but it was early and I could still see many narrative paths that could lead to a satisfying story. My concerns were soothed somewhat and the little flame of my hope fanned, with the flashback of Alfred scolding Bruce, with Barbara's concern for Jason. A bit of worry returned with the way Jason ruthlessly pursued an addict who didn't appear to be a dealer and with the ending of the issue. The stuff with the addict sat wrong with me but the ending was tempered some by how despicable Tyler's dad was written. The scene was clearly set so that the reader could sympathize with Jason's decision and the scene with the addict could be brushed aside as a side-effect of comics over-the-top need for constant action, so I still held hope.

Issue 2 made me uncomfortable and it's where my hope starts to take a backseat to my expectations. I can dismiss Jason's self-deprecating internal monologue as unreliable narration, except that the flashback reinforces his thought process to explicitly show that it's not unreliable narration, and should be taken at face value. Jason faces physical abuse at the hands of his mother's drug dealer and when the flashback continues later, Jason kills the drug dealer. To be clear, this is a pre-Bruce Jason. His mom is still alive. He's like... 10. He kills this guy for shoving his head into a wall and implying Jason's mother paid for her drugs with sex. This is a scene that serves a single purpose. To show that Jason has always been prone to violence.

In the spirit of full disclosure, there is the small chance the drug dealer might not be dead. But the story obviously wants the reader to think he is, and it hasn't done anything to change that yet.

Starlin already did this story with The Diplomat’s Son in 1988 and he did it infinitely better. AND that’s still technically canon. So now I’m supposed to believe that Jason lost his cool bad enough to kill two douche bags before his sweet 16? Like it’s totally normal for abused kids raised in poverty, who’ve led hard and heartbreaking lives to just... haul off and kill people? That’s bullshit, and when taken with the Jason in the third issue, who is little more than an idiot thug, this story is really doubling down on some fucked up stereotypes.

Which brings us to the most recent issue. I went into this installment with very low expectations. I thought this story was going to be about Jason, through this experience with Tyler, a young boy with a similar background to Jason's, coming to the realization that Bruce's way is the best way and that Bruce did his best by Jason.

That would be annoying (in no small part because it takes increasingly absurd levels of plot armor to keep Bruce's no kill rule relevant, let alone irrefutably right). But I can probably live with that, if only because maybe if Jason officially falls back into line with the Bats crusade, maybe I'll get stories that treat him with respect, stories that don't relegate him to comic relief, dumb brute, or a background body with no lines in a story about the Joker burning Gotham (like Jason would just fucking stand there quietly for that).

And that may still be where the story is going, Jason realizing Bruce is right.

But holy shit do I not have the right words to describe how fucking insulting and gross issue three is.

From start to finish--including the flashback--Jason is written as cruel and fucking stupid. Like straight up dumb.

The entire issue is Bruce explaining the fucking basics to Jason like it's his first day. And Jason flies off the fucking handle and terrorizes a doctor he knows isn't a part of making the Cheerdrops, beats the shit out of some random addicts, and finally, when he can't accomplish anything on his own because he's a dumb brute he calls Barbara for help and rushes in with no information where he's promptly incapacitated and must now wait to be rescued by Batman.

This panel is the least of the issues sins but I can’t screenshot the entire story but it’s representative of the tone for the whole issue (and retroactively tainted the prior two issues).

This is beyond insulting. The only conclusions Jason comes to in this issue are the ones Bruce leads him to by talking to him like he can’t make the simplest connections. And like... in this story Jason can’t make the simplest connections.

This (and the Jason throughout the entirety of this issue) is a far cry from the Jason we fell in love with in Under the Red Hood, who was competent and strategic and intelligent enough to seize control of Gotham’s underworld from Black Mask (who’s no fucking slouch, he’s the first and only person to unify organized crime in Gotham) AND elude and manipulate Bruce until the time and place of his choosing.

This is a far cry from even the Red Hood and the Outlaws Jason who is competent enough to fight the League of Shadows and Ra’s al Ghul (among very dangerous and skilled others) and smart enough to create antidotes for mind control nanotech viruses.

As he should be, by the way. Jason Todd is one of the best, most comprehensively trained fighters in DC’s stable of non powered vigilantes. He’s not irrational or hot headed. He’s pragmatic, tactically minded, and patient. He’s a detective. Right now. Has been since he was 12. Bruce doesn’t have to make him one because he already is. 

Jason is not a stupid thug who uses his fists because his brain doesn’t work. And I can’t tell you how so very exhausted I am by this narrative. 

This is actually the most egregious example of Jason’s skills and intelligence being not just undermined but dismissed entirely. Even Morrison’s Jason had some degree of competency. 

The one, single redeeming factor of this story is the art. It’s beautiful. And Marcus To is a godsend he seems to be one of only a couple of artists who remember that Jason was a child when he was Robin and I’m literally only buying this book because of him. 

Anyway, I’m sorry. I didn’t want that to come out so... um... passionately lol. I’m just very very tired. My intention with this isn’t to ruin it for you, if you like it, that’s fine. 

But this issue shot this story to the top of my "Vehemently Despise” list. 1) Batman: Urban Legends (Cheer), 2) Battle for the Cowl/Morrison’s Batman and Robin, 3) Batman The Adventure Continues.

I hope the next issues somehow salvage this dumpster fire. But I’m not expecting it.

(Damnit. That sounded harsh again. To reiterate, I’m not trying to judge anyone who enjoys it, I just personally hate it and you asked me why lol 😅)

[sweetiefayce]

Originally Posted To My Waterfall

So let’s have a context-copy-paste from there!

one Post Wacom upgrade!!! I love working pen-pressure sensitivity!!

Copy and Paste(s) for Context:

Originally, Batgirl as an identity wasn't meant to be a side-kick (that was a 1990's post-zero hour retcon! And a messy one at that!)

Batgirl was basically meant to stand on equal footing with Batman; she was an ally, not a copy. Inspired by but not working for nor under. That was pretty much established in her debut episode, in fact! She loved what he stood for, but had her own way; a much more empathetic, working-with-the-people approach!

That carries on to the current run today! So, wheras Bruce nowadays is happy to inspire fear and act as a semi-urban-legend, Barbara wants to be right on the street with the people--using a combo of criminal psychology with the most updated tech!

It's fascinating really!

--

When you design super-hero costumes, you have to take into consideration why they are the way they are.

So; the trunks on the outside? The bright colours and capes? Those are all influenced by the 1930's strongman acts! Early circus performers and gymnasts; the tight spandex was meant to really accentuate the body and show the daringness behind those feats!

That translated really, really well in the old Bronze Age Batgirl comics!

--End Flashback(s)

So, bearing in mind the long exposition up there-- ^^^^^ --about costumes and feats? I think about that a lot when I'm ice skating.

I mean, it's a given I guess, right? When we watch skating on TV the first thing we see is the skater's costumes; that's usually what we use to puzzle out the tone and mood they might be going for before they even start to skate!

That reasoning was extra important in classic comic books; i.e, showing off these incredible gymnastic feats in just static images! Unfortunately, in modern times...especially for female characters...there's less emphasis on daring feats and more on the whole 'look.' Not even the fashion.

You know what kinds of 'look' I'm talking about...so I wondered; is that totally lost in modern comics?

I don't think so, not 100% because obviously we're still judging on how well fight scenes are choreographed and how these characters move around a page; but modern narratives mean we're more interested in the characters themselves than solely what they can do--and that is 100% a good thing!

That being said; I wondered if I could get some of my ice-skating moves to work for Batgirl?

What I'm figuring so far? Yes! I can; but it's all in the composition! Which, now that I think about it, is drawing 101 to a T, right? But still, I think it's important to experiment with!

So here's the start of an ongoing series; Batgirl on ice! I want to see how many poses I can frame in various tones/emotions!

The first; the Arabasque Spiral! (Leg up above hip-height.)

I've had a lot of fun with those bat-lines, specifically getting them to 'trace' the pattern my skates leave behind when I change edges in practice; I was surprised how much dynamicism it added to the overall poses too!

Now while I'm proud of my fully painted Classic!Batgirl there--I think the Burnside angle and posing is gonna be the most impactful one. But then, she doesn't have the cape obscuring most of her body; but I could not sacrifice the flow of that in two pictures so...here we are! 

[sweetiefayce]

Originally posted to my Waterfall! 

So let’s have a context-copy-paste from there: 

(Done pre-Wacom tablet upgrade.)

Minor copy and paste for context:

Originally, Batgirl as an identity wasn't meant to be a side-kick (that was a 1990's post-zero hour retcon! And a messy one at that!)

Batgirl was basically meant to stand on equal footing with Batman; she was an ally, not a copy. Inspired by but not working for nor under. That was pretty much established in her debut episode, in fact! She loved what he stood for, but had her own way; a much more empathetic, working-with-the-people approach!

That carries on to the current run today! So, wheras Bruce nowadays is happy to inspire fear and act as a semi-urban-legend, Barbara wants to be right on the street with the people--using a combo of criminal psychology with the most updated tech!

It's fascinating really!

--End flashback.

Now this is the point where I'd actually started to really question my sense of style.

In drawing, that is; but we've all had those moments, right? "What makes my art distinct? What sets it apart?"

And I realised, for me, it's the expression in the brow and eyes...and somehow, I don't think I'd quite been hitting that.

I was so self-conscious of being too stylised for some reason, I could never pin it down; was I afraid of my work being seen as too 'manga-ish?' Too 'feminine', too 'flouncy?' Especially if I want to work in mainstream comics?

But it's when I sat down and really looked at my work...I realised that, so what?

Babs Tarr is my favourite artist in comics...ever, and she got to fully embrace how she drew because it worked. You were drawn in by the expression and then stayed because her figures bounced so easilly from panel to panel.

And...that's just how she draws! And there's nothing wrong with that.

Now, I'm nowhere near as good as Tarr--but I want to improve and part of that is, just simply, accepting what I like to see in my own drawings. Specifically; large, expressive eyes and unapologetically illustrated faces!

It's a start and I'm proud of that.

...Now as for the backgrounds, yeah, those need work from the ground up!