While flipping through mdzs to verify some stray thoughts of mine, I happened to fall into a translation discrepancy that I feel really, really emphasizes how important it is to have a proper grasp on the language you are translating before translating for a public audience.
Now before we get too deep into this, I want to reiterate that I am someone who does not understand Mandarin in any form but has been reading translations (both by humans and machines) for a few years now. However, because I have been reading translations that tend to follow the Mandarin more closely in grammar and because I haven't shied away from reading machine-made or bad human translations, I have noticed some places where mistranslations from Mandarin to English are common: pronouns, verb-subject matching, negatives, prepositions, and conjunctions. For this post, we will be focusing on the latter two.
In the lead-up to the Wen invasion of Lotus Pier, we are given a scene where Madam Yu whips Wei Wuxian, and in this scene, we are given a glimpse as to Madam Yu's average punishments towards the young ward.
While Madam Yu always pelted him with hostile words, she’d never really hit him hard before—two or three lashes at most, or being made to kneel or confined indoors, and it never took Jiang Fengmian long to release him from that.
—Vol. 3, Chapt. 12: Sandu: The Three Poisons, 7seas
In the past, although Madam Yu had always come at him with harsh words, she had never truly been cruel to him. The most that he’d been through were two or three strikes and being grounded. He’d also be let out by Jiang FengMian soon later.
—Chapt. 57: Poisons, exr
Reading these back-to-back, it should be very clear that though the same section is being translated from the same exact source, these translations do not say the same thing. The official stresses that Madam Yu had never hit Wei Wuxian "that hard" before, as well as saying that his punishments were a few lashes OR being made to kneel OR being confined, three separate punishments never taken together according to this diction. The exr translation, however, states that Madam Yu had "never truly been cruel to him" (emphasis mine) and that him being whipped was in addition to being confined. The emphasis on the strength of her lashings is absent, but an emphasis on the intent behind her actions—that she never meant to be honestly cruel to her ward—is established in its stead. (While this section as translated by exr does not mention kneeling, later scenes reflecting on Wei Wuxian's childhood in Lotus Pier do.)
Both of these translations... are wrong.
If we give exr the benefit of the doubt by virtue of being the original completed English translation of mdzs, then the official 7seas release should automatically raise red flags for the ways it seems to directly contradict the narrative that has existed for a few years before the novel was licensed. It doesn't help that the official has been riddled with many mistranslations and omissions from the very first volume, lowering any credibility it would otherwise have to stand on. But if we were to examine the rest of the exr translation, then the emphasis on Madam Yu's intent also rings false given the fact that we are told over and over again in this same translation that 1) Madam Yu is, in fact, unnecessarily, illogically, and erratically mean-spirited and cruel, and 2) Wei Wuxian knows this even at this time in his life (shoutout to the Lotus Pod Seeds extra) and understands her actions as targeted cruelty. What does the actual text say, then?
Although Madam Yu always spoke ill of him before, her hand had never been this viciously cruel. At most, she whipped him two or three times and ordered him to kneel down and be confined to his room, and he would be released by Jiang Fengmian sometime later.
—@jiangwanyinscatmom (emphasis mine)
Madam Yu has never been "as cruel" as in that moment when whipping Wei Wuxian, because normally she only whips him 2-3 times. She would whip him a few times and send him to the ancestral hall to kneel and be in confinement, which matches up to the memories that Wei Wuxian reflects on in other parts of the novel. This translation gets rid of the character inconsistencies that the other two translations create. So how did we get here? Remember how I pointed out those common Mandarin-to-English translation mistakes? Well, both the exr and 7seas translations fall into the trap of confusing conjunctions and prepositions. That's how we get a list of punishments rather than an order of events for a singular punishment type. That's how we get "not truly cruel" instead of "not as cruel." That's how we get these sections contradicting what we know about Madam Yu's personality and behavior from the rest of the novel through those two translations. Unfortunately, both translation teams just happened to flub in the same area in slightly different ways, and while I'm willing to give a multi-lingual grade-school student translating in their spare time the benefit of the doubt, a paid translator with a translation team hired by a professional publishing house should have better quality control than a spare-time hobbyist.
Also, just in case anyone wants more proof on what mxtx meant for us to take away about Madam Yu's treatment of Wei Wuxian from this scene, it was also apparently so important to mxtx for readers to know that Madam Yu was truly cruel to Wei Wuxian during his childhood that the act of her routinely whipping him whenever he was in her presence was something that was added into the revised mdzs. It was not in the original unedited version of the novel.
In the past, although Lady Yu always insulted or patronized him, she never laid a hand on him. At worst, she’d make him kneel for prolonged periods of time, but he’d always get bailed out by Jiang FengMian after a while.
—Chapt. 57. Act 12: Sandu/Three Poisons, Part 2, qinghe-nie
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every day i have to see people get accused of being pedophiles for writing about adult/minor pairings but i never see anyone get called a murderer for writing about someone getting murdered. both are bad irl but the latter is suddenly fine because "it isn't real and the author doesn't have any intent to kill, it's just a story"?? like ok surely something is wrong here. that statement either applies to all fiction or no fiction at all, you can't pick and choose
and don't even get me started on the people who believe you have to have been sexually abused as a child in order to write about something like pedophilia. that's so gross and fucked up in so many ways
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i am very, very much not a fan of how the conversation around “transmascs experiencing body image issues after going on testosterone” has been dominated by “what do you expect, that’s what hormones do, you’re not going to look like your anime twink waifu, don’t transition if that makes you upset”
primarily bc it’s shifting the focus away from the violent policing of men’s bodies under systems of oppression that are causing transmascs to have these sudden onslaughts of body image issues to begin with
like, cis men experience these exact same body image issues
cis queer men are socially punished for not being skinny, pale, hairless, and for balding. like, bears are a counterculture within queer spaces for a reason. fat, balding, hairy, nonwhite, and visibly varsex men are heavily policed in the queer community and the subject of a vast amount of intracommunity violence. they’re excluded from community-building and mutual aid, seen as sexually undesirable, mocked, viewed as predatory and dangerous, and discriminated against systemically.
fuck, straight cis men experience this form of body policing as well. straight cis men are also expected to be skinny, albeit a different kind of skinny, and to only have the “correct” kind of body hair (often mocked for having neckbeards, having body associated with being varsex or a person of color, etc). they experience discrimination and violence for balding, being fat, etc etc etc.
suddenly having a body type that’s subject to violence is dysphoria-inducing. if you were viewed all your life as a skinny white girl, and now all of a sudden you’re viewed as a fat balding dude and read as predatory because of your body/facial hair, you’re going to experience a massive influx of fear, betrayal, and disordered thinking about your body. you are suddenly experiencing a wave of cisnormative body policing, ableism, and often a very different kind of targeted racism than you grew up being subject to--this is a massively fucking destabilizing experience.
pushing the onus of that experience onto individual people reacting badly to it is covering up, and even to some extent doing apologia for, the systemic racism, ableism, and cisnormativity that are shaping the responses to transmascs bodies. like, yes, that’s “just what testosterone does.” but how are you shaping the spaces you are in to react to bodies that are balding, that are fat, that are hairy, that have visibly conflicting sex characteristics, that have signs of disability like “weirdly-kept body hair” and “moving aggressively” and “talking loudly,” how are you making the people around you feel about these traits?
look at the spaces you move through--are they ones that uplift testosterone-dominant and otherwise varsex bodies? do they celebrate deep loud voices and neckbeards and chest hair and big noses and big shoulders and fat bellies and balding in their body positivity? do they view them as socially appropriate, as positive aspects of the space, as sexually desirable, as lovable? if not, then why are you expecting transmascs to view themselves that way?
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