#horus rambles

[rotten-downer]

Maybe it's the daddy issues talking but I got the idea of Audrey getting into a spot of trouble and getting hurt and ending up at the train station and Ollie just like... wtf am I supposed to do with you? And he wants to just toss her back outside but Margeret being the little voice of reason she is convinces him to let Audrey hideout in the train station and over time Ollie grows to be a (mentally unstable) father figure for her (she stresses him out constantly but they somehow balance each other out).

Ollie: "She's a grown woman, why does she need someone to look after her?! I swear, she's gonna make me lose what little hair I have left."

Margaret: "You're a grown man and you need someone to look after you."

[nevesmose]

I don't know anywhere near enough about Sanguinius to metaphorically crochet him into a little finger puppet for my primarch fics but how about a little baseless speculation about him and Fulgrim? Please note that this is all based on how I view them in the universe of my silly little stories and is in no way a claim about knowing how they are in canon / lore.

I would probably a) portray Sanguinius as a genuinely sweet adorable cinnamon roll too precious for this world and b) have Fulgrim utterly loathe him because of this.

I tend to write Fulgrim as being a pleasant and charming person who, deep down, is about 50% a deeply broken overthinking ultra-perfectionist and 50% really jealous and vindictive. Please understand that this isn't me saying he's just evil and always was because it really really isn't. It's entirely possible for someone with these traits to function perfectly well in society and not be a bad person in any meaningful sense.

However.

One of his formative experiences as a primarch was almost losing his entire legion due to the Blight corrupted geneseed that almost wiped them out right at the start.

He had to build them up himself from nothing with the constant threat of annihilation both in the sense that "if I fuck up a war and lose however-many thousand Astartes in a terrible accident on the double-ended dildo planet I have no reserves or replacements" and also "every use of our geneseed is a gamble against the horrific mutation coming back and destroying us all over again". In that context the solution he turns to, and the only one that probably makes sense based on his prior experience on Chemos, is perfection.

Make no mistakes, ever, anywhere, because the cost of failure is incalculable, even if it means committing science-treason so you can purge all weakness from your own space dudes. It's not a desire for perfection based on arrogance, although he is of course immensely arrogant in a lot of ways, but one motivated deep down by fear.

People like to clown on Fulgrim based on Jaghatai's infamous "I hear you do strange things to your warriors 😂👌" sick burn, but to be honest, viewed from his context, what Fulgrim's doing is somewhat understandable.

That is if we assume that the Khan isn't just making a cheap insult but rather is implying he knows a lot more than would be preferable about Fabius dicking around with Astartes genetics in order to detect and eliminate carriers of the corrupted gene-seed so that the III Legion, one of the smallest of all numerically, can still survive. And then a lot of other things too because, like Fabius could believably say in one of the weirder McNeill stories, forbidden science is akin to the ancient Terran delicacy known as Pringles. Once you pop you can't stop.

With that in mind it feels like a lot of Fulgrim's post-heresy actions, not just the snake orgies but the general distance and lack of care for his sons, comes from revelling in just finally being free of that level of stress and pressure weighing down on him at all times. Even Perturabo doesn't withdraw from the Iron Warriors that much and he's a dick.

Anyway, back to pre-heresy days. He has all this going on and then in comes Sanguinius with his giant fucking angel wings who everyone loves and who turned his legion into One Direction (not really but you know... perceptions vs reality and no one in this setting actually communicates with one another since they'd probably have a lot in common regarding fears of being mutants etc)

It's the kind of thing that I think would feel like a dagger in the heart to someone like Fulgrim. Directly highlighting and literally embodying all of his fears about mutation and imperfection and yet somehow appearing to get away with it while he has to exercise constant control and do horrible things simply in order for his legion to exist.

So for that reason I think he would absolutely hate Sangy and do everything he could to undermine him.

"Oh no, brother! I've accidentally spilled this entire Big Gulp cup of bright red Tizcan wine all over your beautiful white wings, and only moments before you were due to make a speech to ten million people about how wonderful the Imperium is! Let me help you clean it up."

And then he pulls out a Looney Tunes sized bottle labelled Fabius's Finest Molt-O-Matic Guaranteed Feather Remover and starts spraying it on him.

[apollosgiftofprophecy]

not sure if anyone's asked you this before/yet, but so you have any opinions or thoughts of the relationship between all of the pantheons? general relationship and possibly some more personal ones?

I've read many different headcanons and fanfiction where people have mentioned their thoughts on it, but nothing they've ever gone into detail about.

there's nothing really preventing them from interacting *👀 I keep remembering the smallest tiniest hint of freypollo we got* but that doesn't mean they go out of their way doing it, yk?

OKAY SO-

The pantheons I'll be mainly focusing on are the Greek, Roman, Norse, & Egyptian ones. I'll probably make little nods to other ones too tho :3

Don't be surprised if this mainly centers on Apollo XD He's my guy <3

GREEK & ROMAN

Let's kick it off with these two!

"But aren't they the same-?"

Nope! The Roman pantheon started off as their own sets of gods - the thing is, they had very little myths written down so we don't know much about how they were characterized :(

Howmever. We do know that when they were synchronized with Greece's gods, you can see the little differences between them - for instance, the Roman gods were more Forces Of Nature than gods who went out and Did Stuff, like Greece's.

Jupiter for example! He didn't have the "fucks around" rep Zeus does! Jupiter from the Roman's perspective didn't go out and do much. He rooted on Aeneus, yes, but the myths of his children weren't quite as popular in Rome as they were in Greece (probably because they were. ya know. Greek heroes, and not Roman)

And Apollo. Oh, Apollo...the only major god who didn't have a Latin equivalent.

Rome loved you so much they adopted you and went "no. no. he was always here. no we aren't lying. see? he's in the Dii Consentes!" XD

Fun Fact: Apollo is basically multiple gods in a trench coat. Paion (Mycenean), Smitheus (Mycenean), Aplu (Etruscan), Apaulinus (Hittie), Grannus (Celtic), ect were all Apollo-equivalents who historians have concluded to be past incarnations of Apollo!

which is INTERESTING because...do those gods still exist in the RRverse? Are they connected to Apollo in some way? Are they little voices in his head? DO THEY HAVE DRINKS TOGETHER?

I have questions and I need answers.

Greek & Egyptian

Saving the Norse for last because we all wanna save Freypollo for last <3 the best for last lmao

RIGHT OFF THE BAT I'M GONNA SAY THAT ZEUS DOESN'T LIKE THE OTHER PANTHEONS! I BET HE DOESN'T!

Which sucks for him because Apollo has friends in Egypt XD

I do think Apollo and Horus would be friends! Not only are they both associated with the sun in some way, but they were actually identified with each other when Greece met Egypt!

Greece: Oh so you have a super-powerful son of the king of the gods associated with light? So do we! :D

Egypt: Oh my gosh we do! :D

You know the myth of Typhon? Apollo transformed into a hawk to escape, and you know who has a hawk head?

Horus. :D

also Horus took over the thrown from Osiris - sure, not in an overthrow way but still. he overthrew Set and claimed the throne

sounds like something we all want hmm...

Also, I headcanon that Helios and Ra go WAAAAYYYY back and Apollo only met Ra like. once. before Isis did her blackmailing and Ra disappeared.

SO WHEN RA CAME BACK, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN DURING HOO BTW, APOLLO HAS NO IDEA! HE'S ON DELOS AT THAT POINT! THEN HIS TRIALS!

So when he rolls up to the next sun god meeting he sees Ra and is like "wait what who are you- OH WAIT!"

And Ra's like; "WHO LET THIS CHILD BE PUT IN CHARGE OF THE SUN???"

Apollo: I'm over 4,000 years old-

Ra, pointing: BABY

(Headcanon that Ra & Amaterasu are like. the defacto sun god 'leaders' who keep the meetings rolling. Amaterasu was very tired when Ra disappeared and she had to wrangle these fiery gods together XD)

(Also Helios thought Horus was a lil' upstart XD)

Finally, I also saw someone else mention that Apollo could have learned some Egyptian magic and used it to create the border of CHB!

Headcanon Hecate snuck along with him and it's their little secret :3

Greek & Norse

HERE. WE. ARE.

LEMME GET MY MAP OUT

SO.

Green highlight is where Greece is. Blue is where Hyperborea is (see this post for details)

In that post, I came to the conclusion that Apollo Totally Definitely Has Met Norse Gods BECAUSE OF HIS WINTER VACATIONS!

AND IF YOU LOOK ACROSS THE BALTIC SEA-

STOCKHOLM.

AND WHERE DID APOLLO MEET THAT HOT GOD WITH A TALKING SWORD???

A TAVERN. IN. STOCKHOLM!

FREYPOLLO LIVES (<-knows very well it's basically already canon XD)

Fun fact: the people of Hyperborea were most likely the mythological avatars of the Norse people! :D

SO I CONCLUDE-

Apollo takes a trip across the Baltic Sea and flirts in the Stockholm tavern and that's how Freypollo happens <3

Other Pantheon Thoughts

Hindu: This thought came while I was creating my @underrated-lovers-of-apollo-poll - Apollo & Indra!

They shared an elephant ride that one time! Wouldn't it be fun if they also kissed? :3

also Indra is a storm god with thunder and lightning think of the angst-

Shinto: Amaterasu taught Apollo Japanese when he discovered the haiku for the first time - sadly, only Athena ever bothered to learn it to experience the haiku in its fullest. pushing my sibling agenda again haha

Because haikus always sound better in their native language <3

Hittie: This connects to the 'Apollo trenchcoat' thing earlier - if Apollo is like. the current form of Apaulinus, would the Hittie pantheon like. drop in from time to time like 'heyyyy we miss you <3'

Apollo: *trojan war flashbacks*

Apaulinus was heavily associated with Wilusa, whom historians have confirmed was Troy, and Apollo's first temple doesn't show up under AFTER the bronze age collapse and the war happened BEFORE that happened meaning HE WAS APAULINUS WHEN THE WAR HAPPENED MY HEART-

i need to look into more pantheons. it's so much fun making these connections and coming up with headcanons for the RRverse :3

[thousandbuns]

Went back to "Descent of Angels" after getting so fucking mad at its idiocy I had to take half a year's break from it, and it continues to be an absolute slog, filled with completely redundant paragraphs, trite adages, hamfisted pararells that DON'T FUCKING WORK and characters so stupid I swear they paint their armor with lead paint and don't put iodine in their salt.

[doonarose]

When two different comments on a fic poke at the tiny slither of a cracked doorway with 'oooo that'd be fun to explore' and they're both saying lovely things about the actual fic, and it would, actually, be fun to explore..

I don't have the capacity for a plot bunny right now.

But bunnies do not seem to care for my plans to be productive at work right now...

ETA. And then my own bloody queue decided to throw some sexy rocks at me. Rude.

[nyupuun]

Won Top 4 at locals for the Age of Overlord Sneak Peek (this made me so happy I have to share it everywhere.)

Also, another person really liked the anime (specifically 5Ds) so now we're writing with one another and I don't think I've done anything harder than trying to act normal and allistic about Yugioh. Someone at Locals also said they liked how 'excited' I was about it, and I know it probably wasn't even meant in a mean way but I still felt a bit bad cause I don't even know how to be normal!!!!!

[wildthunder312]

horizon dlc horzion dlc

[that--unusual-person]

you gotta be shitting me. the whole time i've been calling him Horus Lupercat. it's Lupercal with an L not a T

[interplanaranathema]

LETS FUCKKKING GOOOOOOO

ITS SO PRETTY

[sigmasupreme]

Nearly finished the second book of the Horus Heresy and I almost want to stop because I don't want to see things getting any worse for these characters.

[closedrop]

I REALLT HOPE NOBODY ELSE HAS DONE THIS I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS SO FUNNY

[rotten-downer]

Hi I'm alive, I took a break for my mental health since it tanked recently but I'm doing better.

ANYWAYS- please send me some questions about my OCs as I work on a new drawing! 👀 (SFW and NSFW asks are okay! Send as many as you'd like!)

[mulletzombie]

I'm about a quarter into Horus Rising and I'm really liking it so far. the action packed opening hooked me in and Loken is a likable guy so far. also totally knew bad shit was going to happen to that one remembrancer after he went off on his own though I was surprised just what exactly happened.

so. Horus. he hasn't been in it too much yet and I know he goes all traitor and what not, I mean it's called the friggin Hours Heresy lol, but like something about him rubs me weird? like he's almost TOO charismatic and personable. maybe it's just my meta knowledge coloring my view of him and raising my hackles. unlike Rogal Dorn. I like that dude. seems very down to earth, serious but not untouchable I guess. I liked his little talk with Loken.

anywho just wanted to write down some thoughts before heading into work.

[apollosgiftofprophecy]

you know what i love?

so the Ancient Greeks basically connected their gods to Egypt's gods, right?

Artemis to Bast, Hermes to Thoth, ect.

But what I really love is Apollo has a clear parrael (can't spell) with Ra (obviously. Sun god, archnemesis is a giant snake, ect.) but he was ALSO equated with Horus, Isis and Osiris's son who would take the godly throne after Osiris was reconstructed and became king of the Underworld.

Anybody else see the thing I really like about this? 👀

(Think ToA)

[thousandbuns]

Oh yeah baby, it’s time for the unhinged, unscheduled and unstructured Ylthin rambles, today’s topic: loose thoughts on the overall structure of “Horus Rising” (based on my increasingly more faded memories so forgive me for any inaccuracies) and how it contrasts the first few chapters of “Flight of the Eisenstein”.

*cough*

So, in no particular order, and jumping around subjects a bit...

Remembrancers. I know you probably don’t care about them because they’re either annoying, forgettable, blatant writer self-inserts so that Graham McNeill can ogle some fictional women, or have the misfortune of competing for attention with Astartes and Primarchs, but... they are so goddamn important to the story structure, characterization and theming in “Horus Rising”. They are sheltered civilians and bohema-roleplayers fed mountains of propaganda before getting shipped off to create more propaganda about “our brave boys”... and they get reality-checked on multiple levels.

They expect glorious, refined, “peak of humanity” warriors - they get barracks filled with what’s at best scaled-up teenagers, and at worst actively hostile war machines. The Astartes typically dismiss them, avoid them, treat them as a nuisance - which is why someone like Mersadie or Ignace having direct access to Garviel Loken is such a big deal for both sides. They get to talk to a company Captain and Mournival member - and he doesn’t shun them. He’s actually a little sympathetic to them even if he doesn’t quite understand them. That sets him up to be a “good guy” type - an image that is then viciously (and forgive me for using a word so abused it’s lost all meaning) subverted, because...

Whisperheads. The Remembrancers perhaps expect the scattered strands of humanity to kneel before the majesty of the Great Crusade, then rise into a glorious new future - and then they see the reality of ruined cities filled with hostile locals and keeps lined up with mangled bodies. And remember - Luna Wolves don’t particularly revel in violence, they specialize in fast, precise assaults to decapitate the enemy. The action at Whisperheads isn’t a malicious slaughter. It’s an execution, a burst of gruesome yet detached violence, and its aftermath shocks the Remembrancers even before the supernatural gets involved. It has what may be one of my favourite moments in 40K novels - Loken calmly, yet callously dismissing a grievously injured soldier’s pleas for spiritual solace by calling them “superstition”, then mercy-killing him through a decapitation. This is our “hero”. This is a man we’ve seen cheering and fraternizing with his battle-brothers like a middle-school kid. This is a man considered to be a good leader, respected and liked by his men. This is one of the kinder, more mortal-friendly Astartes.

And then there are the others. Abaddon, who can be choleric and brash, but not a blood-addled fool or a sadist, whom we see frolicking with the rest of the Mournival and trying to ease Loken after the Whisperheads - who then gets into a vicious argument with his own Primarch, to the point of driving usually calm and fatherly Horus to throw his wine glass, command him out of the room, threaten demotion and only consider showing mercy if his First Captain comes back groveling and begging for it. All of it over Horus’ refusal to conduct a direct military action against the Interex clashing with Abaddon’s warmongering attitude and disdain for the “deviant” civilization. Torgaddon, the king of witty retorts and master of dad jokes, an “older friend” type to Loken - and yet you don’t see him fraternizing with the Remembrancers. Wish I could say something more about Aximand - but his silence and general withdrawal is also somewhat telling. You see their human side, yet they stay away from mortal humans and keep to their insular little coven of warrior-brothers instead.

“Horus Rising” succeeds at making its Astartes human-yet-dehumanized by having them interact with - or avoid - mortals, and all of it plays into the further themes - the intended nuance and tragedy across the loyalist-traitor divide. The doubt over the veracity of Imperium’s stated goal. The insidious nature of propaganda, the inherently repressive nature of this authoritarian state. The fallen idol of gold we see in 42nd millennium was standing on feet of clay from the very beginning, and the book isn’t subtle about it. Doesn’t have to be - nuance and subtlety aren’t inseparable - and shouldn’t be because the 40K fanbase is full of people like me, who need to be whacked over the head to understand something, and also people who wouldn’t get the memo even if it gave them a wedgie and stole their lunch money, like some of BL’s own writers.

I’ll spare you the extended screaming match over “False Gods” killing all nuance, assassinating half the cast (for now figuratively) and taking a massive step towards an oversimplified “good Imperium vs. evil Chaos” storyline that misses the entire goddamn point and actively makes the whole series less entertaining. I’ll also fast-forward over “Galaxy in Flames” struggling to pick up the pieces as it has to rush forward and cover a major event without having the same amount of time and word count to flesh out some of the key players in it, and deepening or firmly rooting in the problems of the previous two books as a result. We’re now at “Flight of the Eisenstein” scrambling to flesh out Death Guard the way “Horus Rising” fleshed out Luna Wolves.

And I’m just 4 chapters in, about 70 pages out of 280-ish (discounting all the superfluous marketing/publisher crap inflating the pagecount of BL novels). Things could change. I could be wrong and full of shit, and I’ll be the first to admit it if the novel somehow corrects itself on the problems I have with it right now: namely that everything is once again so goddamn flat and simplified.

Remember the nuance with which both halves of the Mournival were written? Fuck that. Grulgor is a brash dick with no redeeming qualities, Garro is a saint of a man and Typhon is Erebus Mini. Remember how the Remembrancers served to highlight that even the kindest Astartes is still a cold, uncaring war machine at the core? Fuck that, so far the only mortal character - Garro’s housecarl - is here to show you that Grulgor is a dick and Garro is a saint. The divide between diminishing ranks of “watered and fed” Terran-borns and Barbaros Legionaries whose ancestors struggled in extreme conditions - and how it feeds into some really toxic mindsets (I’m not apologising for this awful pun) across the Legion - may as well end up being another botched “good-evil” binary, and I saw enough derision towards the “lows” of society (working class deriding the margins, working-ascended-to-middle class looking down at both, big city middle class sneering at them all) to feel afraid.

I’ll give it benefit of a doubt in one area for now - remember how “Horus Rising” focused mostly on conflict against “normal” humans - not insane technobarbarians, not deranged Chaos worshipers, but conventionally acceptable “civilized” worlds, some of which proclaimed themselves to be the Sole Human Empire In The Galaxy (what could Dan Abnett mean by this, I wonder) - and only introduced a planet of “hostile xenos” as a (forgive me for using this cursed word again) subversion to once again remind you with the subtlety of a brick through the window that the Imperium’s policies are horseshit across the board? “Flight...” opens with an assault on the world-ship of distinctly inhuman xenos who go as far as to implant combat augments into their “children”, which has potential to be another stab against the Imperium and Astartes... but unless it gets elaborated upon later, it may as well end up being a footnote in the story, a cool little setpiece to introduce the characters and little more - or worse, be repurposed into yet another pro-Imperial argument without a hint of self-awareness. After all, we’re already setting up an abridged rehash of “Galaxy in Flames” so we’ll have the basis for Garro turning against his Primarch, siding with the Emperor and flying the titular ship to deliver the news of the Heresy.

A story that could easily have the same nuance and message as “Horus Rising”, but that will most likely end up being boring “good guys outsmart the bad guys” drivel.

Wake me up when Heresy remembers what does “no good guys” actually mean again.

[ladymirdan]

I've decided to read the entire Horus Heresy in the correct order because I'm stupid.

Should I continue making my unhinged book reviews ramblings?

Basically should I continue to scream about books?

(like any of you could actually stop me 😅)