#how louis is unreliable or whatever

[thelioncourts]

+

[sol-flo]

nooo don't put a zipper sound effect on your tv series set in 1917 you're so sexy aha

[pinkfey]

marie antoinette is now crying because she went on a monarchy abolitionist forum and read a post by BasedKing69 which said there is no way a monarch can rule innocently and that the royal family is a tree with root rot

[crazykuroneko]

IWTV Fanfiction Recommendations 🫶

I think I have read enough IWTV fics now, so I will list the ones I've bookmarked. All Loustat unless stated otherwise. And since I limit the number of on-going fics I read, you will find mostly completed, one shots, or serialized one-shot fics here. ❤️ means personal favorite. (Also, I don't always remember the author's Tumblr username, so if you know the ones I didn't link, please tell me)

AMC IWTV-verse fics

on brûlera toutes les deux en enfer, mon ange by Tash_ka ❤️

An Episode 5 divergent AU where Lestat's protective side kicked in when he looked at Claudia when she came back. Perfect serotonin and great resolution. Read the sequel as well

outcast of all this night by @puentera

Armand/Daniel, after Daniel came home from Dubai. A must read for Devil's Minion enthusiasts imo. Love the travelling and Daniel's daughters. Check other titles under the series as well.

fear death by water (what the thunder said) by @lgbtiwtv

In which Louis decided not to go with Claudia after Ep 7 and tended to Lestat instead. Or "Louis Phantom Thread-ing Lestat" as I affectionately call it. Love the language and Louis' internal conflict.

The Unreleased Interviews of Louis de Pointe du Lac by @fablesdelightme

Aka "extra" interviews Louis did to accompany his interview in the show. Personally, it's hard for me to read first person POV, but author captures Louis' voice well. Nice to challenge your interpretation of the show. My personal favorite of the series is Light of My Life, or The Lullaby ❤️. I love the romanticism in the words. But overall, a very beautiful series. Not all is Loustat, so mind the tags.

Whatever our souls are made of, his and mine are the same (modern loustat series) by @thefairylights ❤️

The modern rock star!Lestat AU we all need where Loustat (finally) see a therapist! A mix between show and book-verse' canon. A fun light read with the perfect amount of fluff and angst. My personal favorites from the series are There is an indentation in the shape of you, made your mark on me, a golden tattoo and Here lies a heart that feels touched by fire, howling at the moon for you.

The Right Regrets by @dreamofme9 ❤️

You want to cry while reading the longest most romantic sex scene ever? This is it. I mean, fr the internal conflict Louis is having and all the love he feels for both Lestat and Claudia is 🤌

Basically, all fics written by @amc-iwtv

She has my favorite "voice" for both Louis and Lestat it's insane. My favorites are Valentine Medley ❤️, Bed Death (Loumand, with Loustat in the shadow), Familiar Taste of Poison (this fic is basically half canon for me idc), Written In The Stars Above (a very hot '80s rock star Lestat AU) ❤️, God Complex (Crazy In Love) (that Ep 6 scene from Lestat's POV).

Is It Too Much? by @thatgothicgay ❤️

aka what if Louis didn't say yes at the church and Loustat somehow found a way to communicate better. Love how the series handle the show's conflicts. Has a lot of de Pointe du Lacs feels. The sequel is on-going and worth the wait.

My Companion Heart by @mythicaltzu ❤️

Vampiric modern AU with satisfying murder mystery. Love the ending and Louis' characterization here.

Let the Tale Seduce You by (again) @mythicaltzu

Very different and intriguing take on the "unreliable narrator".

All the Ashes in My Wake by jeremystollemyheart

In the spirit of erasing Talbot from the show 🫡, what if it's Louis who's there with Lestat during the TOTBT suicide attempt? Short, but beautiful

Whispers in my mind by @nalyra-dreaming

It's written for me but idc lol. Beautiful fic of Louis' internal conflict in trying to free himself from Lestat's shadow post-Rue Royale until he realizes everything crumbling down again

These devils of yours, they need love too by (again) @thefairylights

In which Louis finally asked Lestat to kill Antoinette for him when Claudia was still away but somehow found it didn't change anything for him. The angst towards the end 🤌

your mouth and madness by @brightfelon ❤️

A non-vampiric modern AU of four-way Lestat/Louis/Armand/Daniel polycule aka Thee Polycule fic. Idk how to describe it except (insert that Lady Gaga's talented, incredible, amazing etc etc gif here). I think we should pitch this fic to Rolin so he would produce a spin-off series based on this fr. Light read, fun, right amount of angst, yet still tackling the conflicts the characters face in the show

Book-verse fics

Begin Again by @licncourt

My first loustat fic I read. Good for show-audience who haven't read the books but want to know loustat's relationship in the book-verse. Set after QotD (3rd book)

Experimental Methods by @zisurru

Loustat experimenting with Fareed's invention and everything that comes with it 😏

A Collected History of The Vampire Lestat (1968-1978) by @mutantmouse

it's rare for me to read epistolary fic, but I enjoyed this. very unique, and Loustat is all over the place. A glam rock and non-vampiric, but not really human either AU

Questions at Midnight by @sofipitch

A canon compliant AU from Prince Lestat era. I have to admit I like the idea of Rose, and this explores that in relation to Loustat.

L' Interversion by @calipsan

An AU where Louis went to Paris after being turned into vampire by other, found Lestat, and turned him instead. You don't really need to know the book canon for this.

[nalyra-dreaming]

I apologize in advance because this is about the unreliable narrative topic, but I did have a question/thought and I hadn't really seen it quite discussed in this way, but it is very possible that I missed it.

At this point, we have multiple confirmations that Louis is unreliable, that S1 will be viewed differently after S2, and that at its core Louis' memory is the way it is right now to try and protect him in some way. These are just facts. The only real speculation left is what he is unreliable about. So, if it isn't about whether Lestat deserved the events of ep 7, what could his unreliable memories actually be about? Even trying to play devil's advocate to be fully prepared for S2, I can't really think of anything that would logically fit.

There is a big difference between Louis being a little biased in his own favor or not having Lestat's perspective (and there are many examples of this sort of "unreliableness" from Louis in S1) and Louis' memories being wrong to the point that he knows they are wrong and he is seeking help to discover the truth. That being a major plot point has to be something big in the narrative. It can't just be if it was raining.

The biggest issue to me really does come down to if Lestat deserved what happened to him. If the S1 narrative remains exactly the same then I do think he deserved it and whatever other suffering he has to go through on his way to the redemption arc they would have planned for him. However, if that core remains the same, what horrible truth does Louis need to be protected from then? We know ep 5 and 7 have specifically been named for the revisits. I guess Louis might need to be protected from the truth that he didn't kill Lestat himself, but then why the need to revisit ep 5 at all? I have seen the idea that Louis is actually in denial about just how abusive Lestat was, but that doesn't make logical sense to me for a variety of reasons both already in the text (like the changes from the first interview) and the way they are currently promoting the show. Would Louis just need to be protected from the truth of not doing everything he could to stop Lestat and protect Claudia, as in he didn't really help directly in ep 7 and he feels guilty about it? Again, that doesn't change how viewers see S1 overall; it would just change the ending, and it doesn't make sense with a lot of other elements. It also doesn't really fit Jacob Anderson's recent discussion of the books and show either.

This all comes with the disclaimer that I don't believe Lestat will be retconned into the perfect husband or theirs a perfect marriage or that the actual mutual fight in ep 5 didn't happen at all. It is really the difference between what events deserve or even require Lestat's murder and what events mean that Louis and Lestat really needed vampire marriage counseling for lack of a better way to put it.

To return to my main question, what could Louis be unreliable about to the extent he needs protection from the truth if it isn't about why Lestat "died" and by extension Claudia and her true nature. I want to be prepared, but I can't really think of anything else that fits all of the evidence and fits with the books and what has been said about the books by those making the show.

I hope my thoughts make sense. I just really wanted to discuss this, and your analysis is always so thoughtful to me.

Hey! (sorry this took a moment)

Okay, so first off - Louis being unreliable is a mixture of a few things.

First, there's memory. It's a "monster", and that is what the raining falls under, imho. Little details. Dates, too. All the dates are off on the show, the speech on the radio given twice, etc. Details. Even vampires do not have perfect memories.

Secondly, there's the things Louis is (maybe still) bitter about. Jacob called that Louis being a "bitter ex who presents their former partner as a monster", so that is still a factor as well. (This is the only part where actual "lying" may come into play, but all in all it's not that huge of a factor in this second interview, imho).

Thirdly there are parts Louis is (still) doing intentionally - like protecting Claudia's image. Painting her in a more favorable light, because he loves her. (Rather understandable!)

And lastly - there is the fact that his memory has been "tinkered" with (I'm not going to pull up all the quotes here, I think you know them by now^^, let me know if you need them.) THAT is the part Jacob referred to at the panel, with Louis trying to regain his true memories.

Now, given what we know already will be in s2, and given the further seasons and their content I also doubt that whatever retcon they'll do in ep5 will be to make Lestat worse.

Like, how could it be worse. Seriously. And where and how would you go to what's to come from there.

It would also contradict Rolin Jones' various statements, which I am also not going to pull up again here^^.

But no, Lestat will not be retconned into a perfect husband and father, lol. He made mistakes, and probably lots of them. There are reasons why Louis is a bitter ex.

So.

To (try to) answer your question:

I have talked about ep5, at length, let me know if you need the various posts and source, but in real quick, I think that part will be revisited to show that while the fight happened (and it did show this utter power discrepancy) it stopped upstairs. When Claudia looks into the mirror. That is a deliberate shot, with meaning. The drop will likely be something Armand planted, because it is eerily close to something he does to Lestat - and Lestat later does to him. The dragging outside... IF it happened then a hint in ep6 will play into it. Though if they reveal that already?! I'm not sure. But the discussion there with Claudia, and Lestat's words can easily also have been part of the actual fight. Or when it stopped.

Episode 5 and the aftermath serve to "prove" that Louis and Claudia needed to kill Lestat. And that is the crux of the matter, right there. Because while Lestat says in his own novel that he never blamed Claudia, and might have done something like that himself... (and I am aware that a lot of people see this as proof for what the show showed there) - in the book context he refers to damning her to darkness in such a small body, and making her so utterly reliant on them. Because he is aware of what he did to her through that fact alone.

Which brings us to episode 7 and the "kill". I think it will be Claudia who wielded the knife, and Louis standing by, as in the book. There were some bts photos of that shoot, with the twins, and Sam and Claudia, and somewhere there is a statement that Jacob had already left. It makes sense that they would have filmed that already.

Louis... is trying to protect Claudia (as he should). And Armand... is trying to protect Louis (by now), and influencing as he sees fit. Not everything, no, but of course his own experiences with Lestat (and we will get to see some of those in s2) have left their own marks.

Armand literally thought Louis would snap out of his grief over Claudia’s death. He says he protects Louis from himself.

I think the tinkering is an attempt to try and free Louis of that grief. And his longing. Parts selfishly to keep Louis ro himself, parts in a desperate attempt to help Louis.

Armand cut the pages of the diary, imho. The ripped out ones may yet come into play for the trial. And, given the Merrick revelations of those pages… those pages might very well be what will bring in the retcons. Because Claudia’s diary in Merrick brought huge revelations.

I concur with you there that the things Louis needs protection from are likely things that pertain to Lestat and Claudia.

The shifts will reveal imho that Louis did not want to kill Lestat (we already know that, imho), and that not everything was as dire as told. And that Claudia was not as pure as Louis wants to remember her as. Which is in line with the books.

Anything else will be details.

Armand in Dubai is trying to keep Louis from suicide. Because Louis knows that things are not adding up, he’s not stupid. And Armand (rightfully) fears the (repeated) impact of the truth. A truth he is not exactly uninvolved in either.

So to close this - actually it boils down to what you already said^^. There will be details maybe. But the main parts will be the already mentioned parts. The rest… will click into place in further seasons.

[22reasonstolove]

A few thoughts

The past few days in this fandom have been absolutely exhausting, depressing, disappointing and overall frustrating. I do need to get some stuff off my chest, and though I've already said something on Twitter, I want to elaborate further on how much the fandom is absolutely ruing the experience of the show for me.

Firstly, and foremost, I am a longstanding Lestat fan and a Loustat shipper. I do not, in any way, feel the need to apologize for this. However, I do feel extremely uncomfortable right now in the fandom, and I know for a fact I'm not the only one experiencing such emotions. Though by now I hardly ever interact with people on social media, I like reading what fandoms think and how they perceive things. To me, sharing passion and opinions has always been an essential part of the deal of loving a piece of media and, after years of very bad experiences, I truly thought this specific fandom was a safe place. I mainly thought this because I'm very familiar with the books and books canon, and I thought people were entirely prepared for morally corrupt characters and dark, though extremely fascinating, stories and relationships. I understood after episode 5 that this was definitely not the case. I accepted that and tried to move on. But the past few days, ever since it was revealed that Season 3 is planning to cover The Vampire Lestat, have been unbearable. It personally didn't happen to me, cause I hardly ever join discourse, but it hurt to see Lestat's fans shamed and put down, if not totally vilified, for the simple reason they rejoiced in the idea of finally seeing the book adapted and of finally getting Lestat's point of view. Though on one side I get the fact people fear Louis will have a less prominent role, on the other hand, I do feel confident Louis will keep on being a main character. It's been repeatedly stated and confirmed and there are several ways in which Louis can maintain his undeniable importance even in an adaptation of The Vampire Lestat. I also scarcely manage to understand why people did not see this coming: Lestat has been the most important and iconic character of this saga for decades. Furthermore, this is a saga based on the concept of the unreliable narrator: the natural progression of the story is to have Lestat's point of view of the events, in order to get a full picture of them. Lestat was always going to find his way on the main stage and tell us his story. It all fits within the essence of canon.

I do get Lestat can be an uncomfortable character to like or love, and I understand the show is portraying him in a very villainous light. There are several reasons why this choice was made: firstly, Louis and Claudia are unreliable narrators and their memories of Lestat are not necessarily accurate - most of the time, they aren't. Whatever Louis is telling us, it's bound to be a romanticized version of Lestat, and I use the term romanticized to mean that Louis is exaggerating everything about Lestat: because memory works like that; because remembering him in such a flamboyant way makes it easier for him to deal with his own guilt; because in picturing Lestat as a monster, Louis is also protecting his memory of Claudia. It's impossible to know for sure what actually happened between Louis, Lestat, and Claudia right now, because we only have one heavily edited point of view and because the narration has been cut in a half. Not to mention the fact Armand might have a key role in the way Louis remembers and tells things. Armand has the power to manipulate thoughts and memories, and canonically uses it to achieve his goals. It's a dynamic that must and will be explored and could change a lot in the way we perceive Louis' story. This is not, by any means, an attempt to denigrate Armand. I adore Armand. Being a sucker for tragic characters, how can I not love him? But I won't pretend he's a positive character because it fits the narrative of Lestat being the sole and only villain better, especially because it wouldn't be fair to Armand - or to Lestat, or to Louis.

But even with all this put aside and ignored, even if Lestat turns out to be exactly how Louis has depicted him (and it's one hell of an if), people still have the right and the choice to love him. Nothing, absolutely nothing, allows you to judge people and bully them, and shame them, and guilt trap them, over their preference for a fictional character. It's simply not justifiable. Here's a refreshing take: not everybody thinks of fiction as moral guidance. Not everyone needs their favorite characters to be positive, heroic, and ethical. Not everyone wants to see their favorite characters react to trauma (and Lestat carries boulders of it on his back) in healthy and pretty and acceptable ways. Some of us love anti-heroes, anti-villains, or simply villains. In different occasions, and sometimes even in the same moment, Lestat is all of the above. People who love him know it, and love him still - in spite of it or even because of it. That is FINE.

Lestat does not exist. And because he is a fictional character, he can absolutely be redeemed: it only takes a creative choice to do that. It's how fiction works. I do think Lestat will face a long and painful redemption arc, but I also do not see it as an absolute necessity. Redemption arcs are just one possible narrative choice. A character doesn't necessarily need to be redeemed for people to love them, to function better as people or to function better within relationships. Though it might not be the case, Louis and Lestat could choose to be fucked up together. Louis' journey might be a corruption arc. Again, we're too early on in the series to make assumptions about this. Choices will be made regarding this point, and viewers will decide what to do with them.

Which includes feeling uncomfortable watching Lestat. That's legit. Lestat, as I mentioned, is an uncomfortable character, and a rollercoaster of ups and downs. However, though he might be louder and unapologetic and dramatic, he is not the only one in the saga. Every single character in the saga is extremely problematic, tragic, and dark. That obviously includes Louis and Claudia. By refusing to see them as fully rounded characters, by reducing them to the role of tragic victims, by not accepting the possibility that their intentions, their reactions, and their actions might not be one-layered, you end up misinterpreting them and missing out on the satisfying journey that it is to love them with their contradictions, negative impulses, and darkness. This is a story about vampires and vampires are monsters. Rice's vampires especially struggle with their monstrous nature and face existential crises, and that is extremely interesting if explored in the correct manner, which really requires taking off the moral glasses and embracing these stories as the tragedies they are. The Vampire Chronicles are not about who's evil and who's not, they're not even about degrees of evilness. They most certainly aren't about who "deserves" to be with whom, and they are not about who "deserves" redemption. By real-life standards, none of them can be saved, redeemed, or involved in a relationship. This is not, however, real life. This is fiction, fiction about monstrous, semi immortal creatures with supernatural abilities.

So, please do not be mean towards Lestat's fans and Loustat shippers. Please be kind. Please don't try to discipline people over how they are supposed to enjoy fiction. Many of us find escapism in fiction. To many, fictional stories are a happy place - and often the only one. Discussions and different opinions are always welcome, but do not, at any time, give in to the urge of putting people in a corner and accuse them of vile things because they love a certain character or a certain relationship. Everybody is allowed to love and hate, to feel triggered, uncomfortable, or ecstatic and full of passion. Nobody, however, is justified to call people out because of their appreciation of a character. It's fiction. You can enjoy it or not, you can watch it or not, you can criticize it or defend it, analyze it or decide it's just not for you. You do not get to turn fandom, which is supposed to be a safe and welcoming place, into a toxic and suffocating environment.

[monstersinthecosmos]

I have no intention of watching the new IWTV show, but I was wondering why you think Armand's characterization was so bad. I kinda hated how Antonio Banderas played him in the 1994 movie (not on its own, just in comparison to the books - I feel like his personality/demeanor was totally different), so it's sad that they still haven't gotten him right... Judging from pictures alone, I did think the casting for him was more fitting this time. Anyway, just curious to hear your thoughts!

Oh man!!!!!!!!! I do wanna say up front, I think Antonio was NOT A GREAT ARMAND but I like those scenes in the movie so much because they feel SO RICEY to me. Like I LOVE Movie!Armand even though he isn't Book!Armand, and if you read IWTV in good faith it's the only book that doens't harp on Armand looking like a smol uwu cherub so like ! SURE. He definitely still brings the calm nurturing mentor vibe in a huge way and the scenes in his room feel the most like the books to me.

I also know from the director's commentary that they specifically wanted Armand to look like that so that the Europe vampires would feel like OLD WORLD SCARY vs like, another twink lol. So he's got a little more of a tropey Dracula vibe going on and I think like as a visual contrast it works really well.

As far as the show; I think Assad is EXCELLENT. And like the whole fandom was joking even when the credits hit IMDB that it was gonna be Armand because everyone was like "OHH ARRIGHT.. LOUIS'S """""ASSISTANT"""""" OKAY !" so like I was one of the conspiracy theorists looking for clues the whole time. And his MANNERISMS are dead on and gave him away before anything else did. I have zero issue with the actor, I think he's so spooky and a complete smokeshow which Armand DESERVES. And I wish I could like the show for him, I really do! But it's just NOT WORKING FOR ME.

I'll put the rest under a cut cause it got lengthy and I'm not trying to like be a downer on anyone's dashboard but TLDR the show is so completely unrecognizable to me and I think it would've been so much better as an original concept, and personally I'm not excited by randos who share names with the books I read. The show is a hit! People really like it! But idk like showing me these two random ass men and saying "Hey this is Daniel and Armand" doesn't excite me because the story they're showing me actually ISNT Daniel and Armand lol. I'm here for the story!!! I'm not here for Easter Eggs!

Here's my main few gripes with how they wrote Armand which I find mega disappointing:

He spends 6.9/7 episodes pretending to be Louis's assistant named Rashid. WHY! LOL. Why would he do that! DANIEL DOESN'T REMEMBER HIM ANYWAY SO WHY???????? I DONT UNDERSTAND. Like Armand is a weirdo but is he THIS WEIRD? idk. idk.

The show also (in my opinion!) horrifically botched Lestat, but there's like this grain of doubt because the show has a theme of memory being unreliable, so the speculation is that maybe Armand planted a skewed version of events in Louis's head? Even the show runner sort of hinted at this? LIKE I HATE THIS?? Because if we get to S2 and it turns out that Lestat's been misrepresented, it then turns the tables and makes it that ARMAND is the one who's horrifically botched????? Like I'm all for silly Armand jokes and memes and whatever but like. sigh idk i just looked really forward to this show and hoped to see Armand on screen and I didn't really want a meme version of him. ((Also as an aside I really dislike the unreliable memory themes on the show the way they're presented because like the books frame unreliable narration as like interpretive and emotional but the vampire lore canonically is that they have like mega supernatural photographic memory? idk. If memory is faulty because they still have that human fallibility it's one thing unless they're saying Armand planted memories in Louis's head??? idk idk.))

And like speaking towards whether or not Armand is a person who would plant false memories in Louis's head; I concede that he psychically influenced Louis to join him in IWTV but like. ARMAND IS A NUANCED CHARACTER WHO ACTS FROM A PLACE OF NEED AND HURT. And idk it's just so fucking clunky I can't imagine the manipulation taking this type of shape. There's just, to me LOL, a huge difference between the mental nudge of "You are lonely and you need guidance please come with me" and "Lestat was a horrific domestic abuser." And like. idk. Just within the package of the whole rest of the season, this team has the subtlety of dropping a fucking piano so I just have no trust in them to write him with any sense of nuance.

AND THE BIGGEST OFFENSE THAT I'M JUST COMPLETELY DISGUSTED BY IS THAT HE'S A DAYWALKER?????????????????????????????????????????????????

I just hate the daywalking shit so fucking much I can't even start. Like the show changes a lot of the lore which is fine whatever it's their show change lore if you feel like it whatever but like. ARMAND'S ENTIRE LIFE IS THEMATICALLY BOOKENDED BY DARKNESS. He grows up in a CAVE. He lives in a CULT BENEATH A CEMETARY. He tries to KILL HIMSELF by GOING INTO THE SUN.

Like. And he's only 500? That's like adolescent for a vampire LOL.

There were a couple times in the season where they had some continuity errors on the show!lore so I got the vibe that the writers didn't really care about all the VAMPIRE STUFF which is kinda disappointing to me bc I'm a nerd lol but it felt like they used Armand in the sun to just give the audience a red herring and it came across as really cheap to me. So I wouldn't put it past this team to kinda be like DAYWALKING SURE LOL and not really take it seriously or think about the larger picture of how that unfolds for the character over more seasons.

IT'S WHATEVER, I JUST. I know it wouldn't make good television but I like VC because it's like existential dread and consuming darkness, I want it to hurt me, I want it to feel bleak, I want Armand's entire arc to be about how much he struggles with the idea that there's no God. It just feels like if you can make it a few centuries and be able to withstand the sun, what's the fucking point? What sacrifice did you make for being immortal? Especially for a character like Armand who so fully believes himself to be damned and would never want to make another vampire, would never subject even an enemy to it.

Especially bc like in the show the vampires can like ? Smoke? And have sex? And they can eat food (even though it tastes like paste but they can eat food). IF YOU CAN SMOKE AND FUCK AND GO IN THE SUN YOU'RE JUST A GUY. Where's the fucking DAMNATION OF IT ALL? Also what's the fucking point of Those Who Must Be Kept if you can go in the sun lol. I just . Ugh what a clusterfuck.

The show turns vampirism into more of a power fantasy than the way the books treat it as damnation or a symbol of being othered so it doesn't really mesh with like, my idea of VC and what I want out of it.

So Armand being a daywalker = Instant Nope From Me. I'm not interested in whatever they're trying to sell me lol.

A few other things that are NOT confirmed but generally just giving me the ick that I worry about:

I really, really, deeply, truly, hated how they wrote Claudia's character and how they wrote about rape, and that gives me a really bad feeling about how they'd potentially tackle Armand's canon background. The two options are: They don't, and he's a completely different character with a different background, with completely different context for his personality/motivations/etc (in which case who the fuck cares he's just some guy who shares a name with the book I like, and not really Armand), or: They GO THERE and it's just extremely heavy handed and insensitive and not fun to watch. I think show!Claudia maybe has more in common with Armand than book!Claudia because they aged her up to be a teenager so it's just, yikes. THEN AGAIN ARMAND IS NO LONGER A TEENAGER ON THE SHOW?

And to that point like. I don't need a bunch of fucking conservatives getting in my face about how I want to see a teenager sexualized because that's not the point; logistically for TV it makes sense that he's older, but again, it changes his backstory so much. imho, Armand being turned as a teenager and looking like a teenager is a huge element of his character! It's important! It just is! And I'm sorry that the show decided that the vampires could have sex, because they invented this problem for themselves! If they kept the canon lore you wouldn't have to see them have sex anyway LOL.

I also was not a fan of the truncated timeline of the show; season 1 takes place in like 30 years I think? And covers from the beginning of the story until Lestat's murder. And I believe Louis will meet Armand in the 1940s; they have the original interview in the 70s and they're together then, and they're together in the present in 2022. Idk I'm just not impressed; humans can get divorced after 30 years too, what's the point of having immortal characters if you're not gonna stretch out the timeline? And so much happens for Armand and Louis in canon and I have no idea what's happened or not happened on the show yet, no one's really sure which events have happened yet in the present day segments of the show. So like idk there's just a lot of Armand/Louis stuff to be smushing into 70 years lol and I'm bummed that they're rushing through the timeline so much.

So I just. Sigh. There's a lot of themes in VC that I really adore that the show doesn't care about, like being VERY OLD and NEVER SEEING THE SUN AGAIN but. I'm in the minority on this one because people love the show LOL. I'm happy for everyone who likes it, but it's not for me.

And like. Just! I knew going in that it would be the Loustat Show, I think everyone knew that, I didn't have huge expectations for Armand/Daniel content but it's such a small part of the books that like it would've been nice to get a couple scenes or some gifs out of it or whatever. It just sucks that like they SET UP the series in a way that the Devil's Minion won't happen on screen. And it sucks that like, depending how long the show runs for or how long AMC retains the rights, this might be the only chance in my lifetime that I had to see Devil's Minion on screen and it's not going to happen.

It's just a bummer man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sorry to anyone who likes the show lol I just found it to be like mega disappointing and I don't think I'm going to watch S2, I'm too upset about Armand & Daniel LOL.

[imatekuani]

I love how many of us agree that this face says she has decided something. And given what Jaune said, well, the sacrifice thing does come to mind.

But funnily enough what bothers me is that the whole episode served to paint both Alyx and the cat as unreliable narrators by Jaune. They both missed giving out information and had the girls following a path that wasn't clear in its destination.

But I haven't seen anyone point out that Jaune himself is also doing the same. Jaune is ALSO an unreliable narrator.

Was the cat saying the truth about being manipulated? Is he a manipulator? Maybe he's just part of the same ever after system as the rest of the beings there. Whatever the answer, as far as we know NODBODY in the ever after actually knows what went down on the tree.

Ruby asks what happened to Lewis (Louis, Luis or whatever writing they're going for...) and Jaune says "I think Alyx traded him to the tree"

He especulates. But to me it seems that just like the cat, he doesn't know.

Did he ascend and stayed in the ever after as something different? Was he omitted on purpose or did Alyx sacrifice his memories of him? Was he killed by her sister? Was he the one that made it back and wrote about his sister? Was one of them the one who ascended into the Jabberwalker? That's my personal fave btw.

Too many options. And until we know how THAT went down, we won't be sure what could happen to Ruby with whatever she seems to have decided about herself and the tree and ascension.

[vividxp]

It’s really obvious to me that a lot of the retcon theories and discussions that people are having around episode 5 and 6 are not about telling a coherent story or character arc but more about trying to soothe the discomfort of the theorist.

Because in my opinion episode 5 was visceral but not shocking. It was something that was established and building from all the episodes before it. In addition, Episode 6 is probably one of the most important episodes in season 1 and the train scene gave a lot of insight into both Claudia and Lestat’s characters and motivations. Episode 7 doesn’t make sense or even hit the same without the events in Episode 6. (I disagree with the notion that episode 5 was enough and that we could have skipped to episode 7).

Additionally, when I read these theories, I try to imagine what it would mean if it’s true. Okay, let’s say Louis wasn’t physically outclassed by Lestat in episode 5, what does that actually change? Is it not still domestic violence just because Louis got a few punches in? Is it not Louis throwing himself in front of Lestat to protect Claudia? (Side note: Is it not still book canon for Louis to do this very thing (fight Lestat) for this very reason (to prevent Lestat from putting hands on Claudia)? I’ve seen the excerpts...)

Let’s say that the entire end of episode 5 was an implanted memory from Armand. Ok, how does Louis end up in Europe in the first place? Why would he leave Lestat (hot take: I find it endlessly fascinating that Lestat reacted before knowing if Louis would have agreed to go with Claudia. He seems to think that Louis would have left him, but is that really true? I personally doubt it) Why doesn’t Claudia just leave again? Why does Lestat have to die or be incapacitated? 

Maybe I’m not in reading in the right places. But my biggest issue with a lot of the ‘unreliable narration/louis is lying/louis is being brainwashed’ theories is that they don’t add anything to the story. In fact some of these theories seem to destroy whatever story we’re being told. If these theories were true, the writers would have spend significant time picking up the pieces and telling the story in season 1 again. And there’s still so much more we have to cover in season 2. I really just can’t see why they would do that and what would be gained from that.

[simshousewindsor]

ASCOT ADVICE

[Buckingsim Palace, Buckingsimshire 9:50 AM WST]

Queen Katherine: I still can't believe granny Niema is dying!

Zarah, Queen Dowager: It's her time. We all have a time, darling.

Queen Katherine: Mom isn't doing well. Between the Royal Lodge fire, her feeling like she has no place to call home, to finding her place as the new Queen Mother.

Zarah, Queen Dowager: Rowena will be just fine. What about you? This royal ascot guest is quite the pick!

Queen Katherine: What am I walking into, granny?

Zarah, Queen Dowager: Your father was a smart man. He never did business with shady people. Louis, well, I still love him. I trust both of my sons!

Queen Katherine: There isn't much information on her. Martin looked into her, into her husband, and into the deal that got them Glimmerbrook back. Prior to that, she's a ghost! To find out that she was also close with daddy before he died, I need answers. What better way than during a public sporting event!

Zarah, Queen Dowager: You are strong, just like your father. So quick to action and judgement! What is her maiden name again?

Queen Katherine: Stanley. Why?

Zarah, Queen Dowager: Oh, nothing. I see we're taking a shorter walk today. Either you don't want to talk about something or you've had too much coffee.

Queen Katherine: It's Lara...

Zarah, Queen Dowager: You are so much like your father.

Queen Katherine: Lara doesn't understand the stresses I'm under. She expects everything to still be the same, and granny, she's gotten even lazier! Her and Anthony have declined so many engagements. They're unreliable! She also wants more money!

Zarah, Queen Dowager: Your sister is looking for a place in your shadows. She doesn't feel that she belongs, that she has a purpose. She was born second in line to the throne and, with the birth of the twins, is now fifth. I'm sure she also misses her sister. We live complicated lives, my child.

Queen Katherine: Speaking of complicated, where is your cane? The doctor said you've had complications walking?

Zarah, Queen Dowager: It's nothing! He's just being dramatic. Where is your brooch? I think your outfit is missing something!

Queen Katherine: I wanted my outfit to speak for itself.

Zarah, Queen Dowager: I know Ascot is calling! I do miss attending but I am far too weak. I'll be watching on the television! I love that sexy anchor, Cameron Dorly, on SNN!

Queen Katherine: (laughs) Oh, granny!

- - - - - LATER - - - - -

[Easton Racecourse, Balsimore 12:52 PM WST]

Queen Katherine: Grand Duchess! We finally have a moment alone.

Grand Duchess Kamil: Hello, Your Majesty.

Queen Katherine: Enjoying your first Royal Ascot?

Grand Duchess Kamil: I am! My husband and I both are.

Queen Katherine: This was one of my father's favorite engagements. (smug) He is the real reason we're both here, am I correct?

Grand Duchess Kamil: With all due respect, Your Majesty, undertones are not needed with me. There is much you do not know.

Queen Katherine: It seems my father told everyone everything except me, his heir, and now he is gone and I'm left to finish whatever scheme he started. My uncle told me a few things but it appears there is more.

Grand Duchess Kamil: We have much to discuss.

Grand Duke Erik: You should visit Glimmerbrook, Your Royal Highness. You would love the country!

Prince Louis: I'd like that! How is your military?

Grand Duke Erik: We could use some help.

Grand Duchess Kamil: Also, His late Majesty and I were not having an affair, contrary to rumors. The Duke of Kent also knows the truth!

Queen Katherine: (hesitant) The truth? What does the truth of you and my father not having an affair have to do with the Amulet of Amethyst?

Grand Duchess Kamil: I know the Queen Mother thinks we were having an affair. I need her to know the truth. We are cousins, Your Majesty! I am also a descendent of Queen Isabella and Albert I.

Queen Katherine: (gasps)

Grand Duchess Kamil: "I am also a Virtuoso spellcaster."

Grand Duchess Kamil: Princess Catherine had a secret child with a spellcaster during a time, in the 1800s, when spell casting was forbidden in Windenburg. Queen Isabella forced Princess Cate to leave the baby in Glimmerbrook, with its father, and the infant was never seen or spoken of again.

Queen Katherine: I... I don't know what to say.

Grand Duchess Kamil: The infant was a girl, my great-grandmother. Your father knew this, and together we were searching for the Amulet of Amethyst. My great-grandmother died performing a spell with the stone, then it was secretly sent to her grandmother, Queen Isabella, who hid it. The magical stone could be worth §100M simoleons!

Grand Duchess Kamil: Before he died, your father found a clue. We don't know what he found but it could help lead us to the stone. The only problem is no-one has access to the Kings files except...

Queen Katherine:...except me.

Grand Duchess Kamil: The Queen Mother believed the media reports that we were having an affair and has refused to see me. I knew she would not help us.

Queen Katherine: Us?

Grand Duchess Kamil: Yes. Will Gates. There is more you should know.

Queen Katherine: Lunch, Grand Duchess?

Princess Lara: Look there, Anthony! Hickory Blazer has overtaken Bentley Road!

Prince Anthony: Aren't we rooting for Bentley Road?

Princess Lara: (excited) "Yes, but I love a good fight!"

Prince Anthony: Who's fighting?

Princess Lara: "The horses, Anthony! The horses!"

Grand Duchess Kamil: I think that is a lovely compromise.

Queen Katherine: Well, it's a large gamble on my part but in the spirit of Ascot, I'm open to making a deal.

Grand Duchess Kamil: The terms His late Majesty agreed to are perfectly fine!

Queen Katherine: Fine for who? That agreement died with him.

Grand Duchess Kamil: Okay. I'll agree to your terms.

Queen Katherine: I'd like to meet Mr. Gates, also... since we're all cousins.

Grand Duchess Kamil: I'd be happy to arrange that. The Amethysts Quest continues!

Queen Katherine: "The Amethysts Quest?"

Grand Duchess Kamil: "Yes. That's what His late Majesty called it."

Previous | Beginning | Next - continue Heir Ascent (story)

Previous | Beginning | Merged with Heir Ascent - continue The Amethysts Quest (story)

The Royal Ascot Procession

[natchla]

ugh ok i just wanna get my thoughts out bc i literally feel like im about to explode. 

one. no i didn’t read the book. no i didn’t watch the movie so idc about accuracy or retelling. i honestly don’t think those things are necessary to tell a good story. coming from a place of fandom and fanworks, some of the funnest adaptations are the ones that take a different route. like druck. 

two. ima need them to break up. im struggling to grapple with how this relationship exists in a vampire context. like if they are spending eternity together does that mean that anything that can happen between them will happen? even if that includes love, abuse, marriage and separation. like how bad does bad have to get for them in order for us to actually classify it as bad. bc this is feeling pretty bad to me. but like a vampire fight where they know they’re both going to heal? is that still bad? i feel like yes.

three! louis stresses me out but we love an unreliable narrator so ONWARD. i     feel     so      bad for him. i also feel like him being black adds so much interesting and fucked up nuance. i think that’s why it’s so jarring and fun to watch as a black person. like i keep thinking about claudia telling louis that they are lestat’s slaves????? he escaped one thinly veiled form of oppression to go into another one?!!! fuck man.... like he’s not just black he’s creole. his family owned a plantation. so he has this power that affords him many pleasures in life. he gets to hang around all those big time white guys and pretend he’s one of them. but at any moment if he steps out of line it can easily be taken away from him. as we saw the night of the riot. it was a reminder. a violent one. and now if we look at louis and lestat they are in love. like louis said “he has a way about him”. they live together and have a kid and dance and sing and....    but he has to pretend he’s the help when they go to the opera. even louis’ family calls him big daddy lestat or whatever the fuck. because louis is a pet. at any point he deigns to fall out of line. lestat comes back with a “i heard your hearts dancing” or a near death experience. and they too are violent reminders. “i’ve given you this position”. “i put you on this earth.” and both of these actions can be easily reversed.

so excited for the next episode tho! gen

[piratesofthedarkwidesea]

So I’m just re-watching episode 3 and... I really love the scenes between Louis and Jonah and.. it just occurred to me how extremely human these scenes make Louis look? Like his accent getting all strong makes total sense in the context of him talking to someone from his youth, someone who is a Black man as well.

But it it also occurred to me this is the first (and only?!) time we really see Louis flirting? Like we’ve never seen him have this kind of confidence before? He was very much denying and fighting his homosexuality when he meets Lestat (you can see it quite explicitly in a couple of scenes, also him concluding this could never happen again after having sex with Lestat for the first time). But Jonah is somebody he is familiar with, someone he knows is also queer, plus it is already established there is some mutual attraction which is being rekindled. But it is Louis actively flirting with him. Asking if he remembers their shared youth [and their “early fumbles”], which is in part due to Lestat watching them, I guess, getting even with him in a way, calling him out on his “of course”. 

But but BUT what I really wanted to say (sorry for getting off track a bit there ahsdhoas) is... there is no vampire moves to it. There is no indication he’s reading his mind, influencing him in any way with his newly won powers (which he is also still rejecting to a degree at this point). Just some very human “do you remember” and “look at my cool car” (aiosdadhs Louis I can’t even 😂😂😂). It’s just so abusrdly cute and very deeply human in a way? 

And I do kinda see how Lestat is jealous here, because Louis has never been flirting with him like this. And he keeps telling Louis (and us) how much he wants Louis to explicitly say / show he loves him? 

I mean of course it is on the other hand very obvious how Louis wasn’t like that with Lestat when he met him. One part being him struggling a lot more with his sexuality and his shame about it there. But also Lestat is being very active in pursuing Louis. Louis describes it as being hunted (we’re gonna ignore the unreliable narrator level here bc I don’t wanna go this deep here - and also bc I do believe it in general terms, I guess). Like there are parts where we see Lestat taking it kinda slow, including Lilly there to ease Louis into it. But also then getting very insistent, basically jumping a distraught Louis who is in shock over the death of his brother (with he witnessed first hand, his mother blaming him for it etc.), not leaving him alone... But then here on the other hand also Louis isn’t being only passive here. I love how it is very clearly him initiating the kiss with Lestat after Lilly is out of the picture. All these nuances and complexities really are what makes their relationship so compelling I think!

And uh... I guess I also have some thoughts about Lestat courting Louis and Vampire Moves tbh (bc I introduced the absence of them in Louis flirting with Jonah) but this post is already so long 🙈 What it does probably boil down to though (not 100% sure bc I haven’t really thought this through yet). But, in my view, he isn’t even using his Vampire Moves much? Like yeah he is in Louis’ mind and showing some tricks but... more in a showing off way than in a manipulative way? Like whatever Louis is trying to tell us here, he is just really attracted to that French guy. He may also be repulsed by him in some ways (or maybe more by his visceral reaction(s) to him, hm, Louis?) but damn he wants to fuck that guy so bad it makes him look stupid. 

And yeah you might raise the argument that Lestat does use his Vampire Moves when he’s in Louis’ head, pestering him about how he is not gonna be ignored  right after Paul died. But he first walked up to him when the family were on their way to the cemetery and.. was pestering him in quite mundane ways there, you know? Like him being in his mind was driving it to a head a bit more quickly and dramatically maybe but... knowing Lestat he would probably also have been able to be an absolute pest, just showing up again and again, not taking no for an answer (and he basically does so in ep 6, doesn’t he?). So yeah Louis is talking about vampire bonds and mind gifts but... he attracted to him. Big time. I ain’t buying your angle here, Louis.

(Only that of course I kinda do, bc Lestat is a narcissistic manipulative shit in certain ways as well. And doesn’t take no for an answer. Neither in ep 1 nor in ep 6. But then ep 7... weeelll... layers and all 😅😂 But I hope you still get my point.) 

[hauscrashburn]

ok, see, but I love what they are doing in the new interview with the vampire. They've taken the concept of the Other and made it more explicit in Louis's Blackness and queerness; they've shown where it does not work, how it is a cudgel over his head. They've taken his self-loathing and rooted it in the ways in which the world told him he was less than human, and because of that, because of his grief, because of the ways in which he was denied his grief over Paul being valid (you did it; what did you say to him, Louis), the ways in which his anger is stymied, that the power of vampirism makes sense. and presented in a loving package, in the adoration, of one person. And Lestat validates Louis's anger (not that he needs it, but in this moment, in his crisis, he needs to be told he is not alone, that it all has meaning, that is all correct, that his life, and Paul's life, have meaning outside of whatever tiny box they've been squished into--that coffin comment was more than just a joke on Lestat's sleeping place).

it is a gorgeous, dark place, full of anger and vengeance. Lestat continues to get his on God via the priests and he offers Louis a path of his own. And he offers Louis himself. The adoration. The headiness of his gaze. A proximity to power (that Whiteness offers; Louis had his own form in Storyville). An affirmation.

And here I wonder if this is what Louis needs from Daniel. A recognition that the decisions weren't all wrong, that he was in the right, that his vengeance was just, that his love wasn't misplaced.

"Where did all of his love go"

also, I really love how they are playing with his unreliability. What is his truth and what is truth and do they meet somewhere in the middle? And I love how Daniel calls out the inconsistencies with the prior narrative but we also know Daniel is fallible. He told us himself.

It really is a brilliant show. It may be filling a hole in my heart that Hannibal left. And the podcast has a lot of interesting context, both in how they provide backstory, but the metatextual people they bring on, such as the Black horror expert and the queer horror expert. It's an intentionalty of it for me.

(also this entire show hinges on Jacob Andersen and he is killing it. just absolutely carrying every damn moment with perfection)

[nalyra-dreaming]

Hello! Sorry if you’ve already answered this. Do you believe the scene in NOLA where Louis rejects a weakened Lestat really happened? I seem to remember it’s never confirmed either way, Louis says it did and Lestat says it didn’t. Do you believe it did?

If it did happen, what are the implications for their later reunion at the end of TVL? I’m finding it hard to get over the idea of Louis rejecting Lestat at his weakest and ugliest and most needy, and only coming back to him when he’s powerful and beautiful again. Nothing much happens in Louis’ life between those two reunions, he’s in emotional stasis the whole time - so why is the outcome so different?

I’m really in two minds as to who is the unreliable narrator here - Lestat rejects the idea of that scene being real so furiously - and he doesn’t normally have problems with portraying himself as weak and pathetic so that sways me towards believing him. But then if it was true than it might be unbearable for him to contemplate on some level. There are lots of bits in the books talking about how Louis loves Lestat for his strength and vitality and ability to give life meaning. How utterly depressing if that means he would just reject him at his time of weakness and need!! 🥺

Hmmm.

So... in the books, there is something rather important to remember here, imho:

Because for one... this was after decades of Louis being with Armand, after having been spellbound and lied to. After being emotional dead, right? The Louis then... did not have much left of himself to give, and if that scene happened, then that might play a huge part of why he left Lestat then.

And the other... when you say "nothing much happens" between the reunions then that is not true?! This has nothing much to do with Lestat being "strong and beautiful" again - and everything with Lestat finally offering the truth - and hope.

Louis comes back to Lestat at the end of TVL because Lestat published the truth about his life - and he comes back with renewed hope and hope for love. Hope for life.

And apart from that... we know Armand tried to make Louis' mind easier on some things when he saw fit. That's simply canon, in book and more than hinted at already in show. I always found it weirdly fitting that Louis would remember "rejecting" Lestat, when Armand had been by to whine about Louis to Lestat, you know? That is something they also could take up easily for the show, this tinkering with Louis' mind, to make him believe he was the one who left Lestat behind then.

In order to make it easier for Louis to deal with the disappointment of not finding Lestat there, for example. Or in order of making sure Louis would not go out and search in the first place....

I think there are more things at play than a simple "rejection because he's weak". That... just doesn't fit for me, sorry. Especially for them.

I think Louis will be back with Lestat when Lestat finally tells his story as well. In whatever way they'll spin it. And I think Louis' visit to Moss house... will be his memory of visiting Lestat then. But if he really found him? THAT will be one of the questions, I bet.

[viciousland]

I’m obsessed about the little details in Louis and Daniel’s scenes. There is clearly more. At this point Daniel hasn’t written a book about the vampire world. We know Lestat and Louis can’t hear each other. It’s time to speculate:

I’m assuming Lestat is sleep and on earth at this point and Louis is concerned? wants to reconnect? Wants to know if he’s alive? I’m 100% sure Louis wants Daniel to publish the book so Lestat knows he is out there and alive and wants to reach him. Let’s not forget Louis mentioned the vampires want to unite and create chaos and destruction or whatever. I’m betting he wants to expose some dirty laundry to sabotage whatever plans they have.

When is this happening? Why Louis is pushed to do this? I have a feeling this is a bit after Louis and Armand part ways. That “break up” was Louis peak assholeness in the book.

But what’s more interesting for me, is how much attention they are giving to the unreliability of Louis’ recollection of events. This is perfect setting for allowing them to retcon everything with other stories. I like the idea of not having a permanent true story.

Also... am I the only one that realized how uneasy Daniel was at the mention of him being probably not straight? What’s up with that Dani boy?

[lehdenlaulu]

I feel like I live in some reverse universe again since everyone else apparently thought ep. 6 was the Best Thing Ever, but I've been mulling it over and pinpointed what bothered me the most about it:

In a word, the episode was redundant. It absolutely felt like a filler and like it was there just because more time needed to pass in the story until 1941. The plot didn't really move anywhere, there was no character development to speak of, it was mostly just... a series of scenes. Anything of any apparent importance happened in the present day, and even that 'revelation' would have been more impactful if it was connected to the story Louis was telling. But since we haven't even gotten to the Paris part in the story yet it doesn't really mean anything at this point even if Rashid is supposed to be Armand (or a stand-in for him). We don't know him as anyone of importance right now, so how is Louis's boytoy being possibly immortal relevant or shocking, exactly? Granted, I don't know what will happen in the finale, but... shouldn't that have been saved for it? Because as it stands, the revelation of his identity, whoever or whatever he actually turns out to be, will be a little watered down if him being immortal was supposed to be the dramatic part, no? 🤨

It kept, repeatedly, stating through dialogue what shouldn't need to be pointed out. Which was honestly baffling to me. The number one rule of visual media in particular is show, don't tell. And this episode kept telling us. I understand they had a limited budget, small sets etc. but for one it was definitely an odd choice that we as the audience (alongside Louis and Claudia) were told about Lestat's past when I think the parts about Magnus and Nicki are something we should have seen for the first time. I understand that the implication in-universe was that he was lying anyway, but... he wasn't. So since there's no evidence in book canon Lestat ever told Louis and Claudia those things, I think those revelations in any detail should have been saved for later when they hopefully can actually do flashbacks to the 1700s. But the even more damning part is that they... kept "twisting it from the iron wire", as we say in Finland. Like... "see, this is a metaphor! are you sure you're paying attention? oh how can we make it any more obvious? ooh, let's add some flashing neon arrows!". And that goes against everything I've been taught in not only film school but any creative writing classes. You want the audience to understand the themes of your story? You show them. You never ever spell it out. And no, this is not something that can be explained by unreliable narration since the other episodes have not had this problem, not to this level at any rate. I mean, you already have Daniel in the story, whose essential only purpose is to lampshade things if you need to make extra certain the audience is catching on. Now, like I said, the story started to border on a parody or a farce of itself. Some of the lines were painful, and in exactly the wrong way. I don't know if the apparently reasonably inexperienced writer is where most of the blame lies or if it was the result of them not apparently knowing what to do with the lull episode between two big and dramatic ones. I mean, if you ask me, they could have just done away with it altogether. *shrug* I really don't want to be a hater, but I also hate being let down by something I have high expectations of. *sigh*