#hypocrisy in SPN

[spnwin-reader]

When going up against Mars Neto—John overdid it, displaying the "overkill" signature of a disrupted psyche.

But his anger saved Carlos. Carlos knows this, and thanks him, but he's unsettled. Perhaps he senses that this experience... injured John terribly.

Carlos just doesn't want to see it... or his part in it.

He tentatively offers this:

CARLOS: Thank you for what you did back there. JOHN: You're welcome. CARLOS: If you ever... want to talk. You let me know, okay? JOHN (an uncomfortable smile): Yeah. I wi—I will.

///

What a difference from the flippant pressure Carlos put on John to talk earlier in the episode—the very thing that triggered John and left him feeling cornered!

After delivering a somewhat more philosophical take—not a specific personal trauma—Carlos bailed to do the investigation. He spoke about how they’re all the same, but it wasn’t rooted in an intensely personal grief or loss.

It was about the shape of his life, mostly.

And then he left John to sit in the fallout zone.

Anyway, I’m just saying that why on earth would John want to talk to Carlos now? Carlos accidentally made himself an unsafe figure in John's world of emotional vulnerabilities:

CARLOS: My friend would actually love to go next, right John?

spnwin 1x04

(This is... a little analogous to how Sam Winchester operates with respect to talking it out with his own loved ones.)

///

With respect to John's overkill, I can't help but be reminded of Mary seeing Jack's overkill signature in Game Night.

Both Carlos and Mary are "big heart" characters, who sometimes unintentionally lean on others too hard in service of The Cause and The Need to Protect—until those they lean on break wide open.

(NOTE: We see Mary also do this with Cas in First Blood.)

There’s just something so crunchy about circumstances where someone’s so useful, so powerful that you never bench them—because you just need them too damn much. (But well…that kind of weight is way too heavy for anyone to carry.)

14x17

BONUS:

“You left them!” she shouts. John’s not around for her to be mad at, so she takes it out on Cas. (But also, she realizes that she left them too. Sees the error of her ways and apologizes.)

///

Sam does this on occasion:

DEAN: Oh, what? You think he's ready? He's had a pretty rough go of it lately. SAM: Which one of us hasn't? Seems insane to leave our one and only angel friend on the bench. DEAN (resigned): I'll call him. SAM: Thank you.

11x06

///

So, ofc, does Dean.

(x) (x) (x) (x)

Dean wants Cas to be invincible to both keep them safe as a family... and also to be strong enough to take care of himself.

Jack-Dean-Mary all tend to trade in having great expectations for Cas in particular.

When Dean marshals the forces, Cas often ends up with the heavy burdens—partly because of tragic circumstances of the narrative, and partly because he’s so often physically the strongest.

//

And so. The "courage" characters often get revved into overdrive:

//

Even Cas has an "overkill" signature on occasion

Godstiel is the obvious example, but the moments in 15x03 and 15x06 often go unnoticed. Respectively, they’re signs of Cas rising to the occasion—but also, like Jack and John, of a worsening psyche. We’ll see how his resilience sometimes slips into something else: the dreaded “destiny.”

Above: Cas overkills Belphegor, destroying Lilith’s Crook and Jack’s vessel in the process—cutting off any chance of getting Jack back, at least for the time being. It’s a decisive move, yes, but also a glimpse of his fraying resilience.

&

How Cas kills the sheriff in 15x05 is also... disturbing. Angry. "Savage."

And the “Take who you want, when you want”shows us Cas’s anger at Chuck. It connects to his later words to Dean: "When God took [Jack] from us…"

We get so locked in and amazed by the strength of certain characters that sometimes we miss these signs.

///

No one is unbreakable.

Sometimes, with certain people... we just forget.

///

Like:

BELPHAGOR: Funny— they didn't seem to think twice about it—

//

Just like The Cause keeps winning out over care in SPN prime, the truth is that the Core Four in SPNwin don’t really hesitate to send John into danger—whether it’s taking on a monster in episode one or facing off against a god:

MILLIE: You sent John into battle against a god who's immortal?

(She didn’t know that, Millie. But it’s true that she sent him into that minefield. That's how soldiers operate... and it's tragic.)

Above: Like Dean, Mary can at times be prone to a mission-oriented (or safety-oriented) insensitivity. She runs hot and cold—tender one moment, tough the next.

..

Mary's hypocrisy and immaturity is every bit as delicious as John's grief- and fear- induced anger:

Later in 1x06, Mary will accuse John of throwing himself into danger, and it never occurs to her that her own hypocrisy might be what chafes. "Everyone's worried about you!" she says.

Then she accuses him of "running towards danger." She says, "this isn't a game; this is life or death." But is he the one who doesn't know that... or is SHE? (See above.)

The bottom line is this: she feels that she can put him in danger, no problems. Because she trusts her own judgment. Her own judgment gives her the illusion of control.

As for John, she wants him to be strong and to be resilient and take on what she determines to be the acceptable level of danger. He should slow down when she says slow down, and most importantly... he should make sure not to actually be in danger, even when and especially when she's sending him into that danger.

//

In 1x06, she asks to be let into his head, but she turns cold the minute he does. "I don't need you using me as an excuse to avoid your issues," she says, even as she verbally minimizes his anger and fear, and sidesteps that the root of his running is loss. (Loss of his father and the terrible fear of losing her too.) That's an approach that shuts down conversation, even if she is right.

Best part? She's doing all this while avoiding her own hypocrisy re: John's safety and her role as his battle commander.

Far from a warning sign, this is actually a sign of the maturing love between John and Mary: namely, that it's scary to care about each other. They want to be stronger for and more cautious with each other’s safety.

(SEE: Dean and Cas in Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets: -> "Wow, this Benjamin seems like he's pretty cool, you know. Like he wouldn't make any half-cocked, knee-jerk choices.")

It's an impossible tightrope. The pot and the kettle!

It's the duality of being a comrade-in-arms with him and the burgeoning desire to be his lover. She wants to be protected by him and protect him from harm.

///

John the weapon

Eventually, in SPNwin, they’ll have to reckon with how they use John (and they will, in 1x06 The Art of Dying). It's about the fact that they know John’s struggling, but they lean on him anyway because he's strong and they need him. (Ironically, they do this even though John's the newest to the hunting world!)

It's so interesting to me that in SPN prime, John starts out as an innocent civilian—lied to, unarmed, and unprepared to protect himself or his family. Afterwards, he overcorrects, becoming the hardened, cruel father we know so well.

But in SPNwin, he steps into the life and becomes John the weapon almost immediately. And right away, Mary starts to lean on him in ways that echo how her Season 12 prime counterpart instinctively tried to lean on Cas.

Like Henry before him, John seems unbreakable—like "nothing can kill the guy" (SEE: Larry in 8x12: "So, Henry is dead. I was so sure that—that he had survived.")

In SPN, characters like John—and especially Cas and Jack, sometimes Dean—are often lost to that same sense of duty. Not because they aren’t loved, but because they were so often needed too much to be protected. It's an agony, really.

DEAN: So you're always thinking to yourself, he's indestructible. He'll always be around, nothing can kill [him]. (2x03)

///

JACK: Since I've been alive, everyone assumed I would be this special person who goes on forever. (14x07)

[sup38008]

Y’all know what pmo? When I see a spn edit on tt and the Winchesters childhood and John comes up and surprisingly, so does Adam. Cuz y’all forget him most of the time, and only remember him to hate on the KID, at the time. To make Sam and Dean more idk, traumatized-y by john. Like come onnn 😩

We get it, Sam and Dean are meow meows and John is an asshole. But you ain’t got to drag Adam in to the whole, “Sam and Dean had it worse cuz John was an ass, and Adam had it better cuz John tried to be an actual dad to Adam. Therefore, Adam got the childhood that Sam and dean never got. And Adam deserved to be left in hell”

???

That’s a kid man.

Also what? Like did we watch the same show? All the happy little things that Adam said in “jump the shark” (I think that’s what the episode was) wasn’t really true because it wasn’t Adam saying it, it was the ghoul that ate him AND his mom. And the ghoul was trying to manipulate Sam and Dean, so who know whatever it said wasn’t a total lie? Or Yk, a lie with a tenth of truth.

Like our actual Adam Milligan (I also hate when people use the Winchesters last name when talking about Adam. And saying he’s a Winchesters. Cuz he’s not, and that’s okay, he can be both. More Milligan tho. Like bro would never willingly give up his Milligan last name, it’s the only thing he has left of his mother to hold on to) was johns number one hater.

Adam literally called John a stranger who visited once a year for his birthdays after he turned 12. A stranger people! One that showed up once a year to play house and made shit awkward and depressing after he left, again and again.

Also, take this from Adam’s prospective. He didn’t know Sam and Dean existed, or marry. That his mom was a kinda replacement for her. And John had a whole ass secret life they didn’t know about. He thought bro was a mechanic for fucks sake. Imagine dying (being eaten alive) to wake up to being fed bullshit by angels (who are logically more trustworthy than a bunch of suspicious men saying they are your brothers) and then used as a pawn to get his half brother to say yes. That’s sucks ass.

Anyways, what y’all think? Am I too aggressive?

[trialssam]

🤨

8x06 - 4x21

[reallyunluckyrunaway]

If Donald Trump is Warmongering and Blatantly THREATENING A Woman in Front of Hundreds of People, Than What Do You Think He'll Try to get Away With In The Whitehouse?

Admitted child molester, Rapist, Raging Misogynist and Racist, and bribing and tampering with our elections... What more do you need to rise up people?

#Vote Kamala Harris

Trump attacks Liz Cheney as "war hawk," saying see how she feels "when the guns are trained on her face" https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-attacks-liz-cheney-war-hawk-guns-trained-on-her-face/

[deerscradle]

spn fans (?) who hate sam are soooo embarrassing you ask them why they hate sam and they list the MOST INNOCENT incidents happened in the whole show yet they baby castiel and dean for their selfish decisions and mistakes

[supernaturalconvert]

AAs hypocrisy

One more display of the AAs hypocrisy is this tweet that has so many of them so offended. I guess this person was clearly joking about Jensen not smiling anymore which everyone can notice and look at the uproar. It isn’t even that serious.

This is same gang that’s made the most hideous comments about Jared over the last couple of years and cropped him from pics before that. From calling him ugly to commenting on his hair line to things like putting out his mugshot at every possible instance. I guess it isn’t all that fun when the tables are turned is it? Or I guess in Jared’s case it was ok coz he is a celeb but same doesn’t apply to Jackles.

This is Anna losing her shit over it….

[headlightsontonight]

im SO curious abt michaels insistence to follow the plan, to the point that he'll essentially disobey to ensure it plays out. all the manipulations, lying, and scheming to ensure that he and lucifer end up facing each other through the winchesters. to the point of convincing adam, who in no way was meant to be involved. it shows that he's capable of disobedience, and that he didn't exercise it when it mattered (lucifer).

[laf-outloud]

So, fans are finally catching on to the fact that Jensen's CSA joke was incredibly offensive, but not that offensive because, you know, it's Jensen and people aren't allowed to think or say anything remotely negative, but if you do, you have to apologize first.

And also, Misha's pandering again because he can't let SPN go or let his money train fans go too long without remembering he was in SPN, because that's all he has.

So grateful as part of the Walker fandom that we have Walker coming in less than two weeks and we're getting promos and episode descriptions, because the desperate SPN actors and their fans are an absolute trainwreck.

[whateverthedragonswant]

It amazes me that every single day on this hellsite Destiel shippers are told that they're misreading certain scenes between Dean and Cas in the show but when it comes to genuine brotherly/familial moments between Dean and Sam like the barn scene in the finale, it's okay for Wincest shippers to misinterpret Dean telling Sam to tell him it's okay (meaning to leave) as Sam was telling Dean it was okay with him and Dean being in a romantic and sexual relationship the last 15 years? That never happened? Really?

[trialssam]

no, just hear me out. sam gets a lot of hate by working with ruby to defeat lilith, and ppl think that sam using his powers is bad and all. but dean in s9 working with crowley to get the mark of cain to defeat abbadon is not? if I remember correctly, dean is working with crowley without sam's knowledge (like sam with ruby in s4 and dean found out), but when dean in s10 is hurting other people KILLING other people because of the mark, it's just brushed off? sam using his powers in s4 wasn't killing anyone, he was saving a lot of people from possession, actually, and people still hate him for it??

[acesammy]

“I made it REAL clear what I wanted. You ever consider that???”

BIG words from a guy who just last season got Sam possessed against his will.. and the season before told Sam to disregard what he said and try to save him anyways

[caranfindel]

Friendly reminder that Dean’s deal wasn’t something he did for Sam. It was something he did to Sam. He hated that his father did it, and then he went and put all that grief and guilt on Sam, because he couldn’t live with his own grief and guilt over losing Sam at Cold Oak.

(Was it awful? Yes. Am I glad he did it? Also yes.)

I'd do it again

2 x 07 - Crossroads Blues

9 x 13 - The Purge

[supernaturalconvert]

Just a general post since it seems so fitting given all that I've learnt about the guy in the last two years....

Ethics and Jensen Ackles have no correlation...

P. S This is about multiple things.... You can read about it on my blog under the appropriate tag.

[whateverthedragonswant]

Antis right now in response to AA's celebrating the Rob and Jensen panel at the upcoming Jib and saying how important they are to the SPN universe: "Sam and Dean were the leads, the only ones who mattered in the show! It was all about them! They're the mains!"

Me: "Weren't you just going off about a month ago about how Dean is not only a shitty character but how unimportant he was to the story as a whole? To the point where some of you said he physically abused Sam growing up? Make up your mind..."

Someone save these receipts and bring them back out in a month or so when they start up again about how Sam is the only one that matters to the SPN story, he was the final girl, and Dean is nothing but a side character only there to further Sam's story.

The hypocrisy is strong with these people.

[shallowseeker]

There are a lot of nervous breakdowns in SPN that are very tied up with delayed grief reactions.

S4 Sam - Drinking demon blood is a reaction to losing Dean; to being horrified that Dean could die and having a disgust-reaction to his weakness as a way to protect himself from the emotions he has about Dean's mortality; Sam was desperate to be stronger. He couldn't unpack why.

S6 Cas - Being murdered by Heaven (Raphael), and though he returned to Heaven to be "the new sheriff," he was paranoid of even the angels close to him because of *waves at all of S4-5* That paranoia and withdrawal into himself reached into every relationship he has. He watched his loved ones suffer, so he decided to be the one to "Put a Stop to It--to All of It"

S7 Cas - Nihilism; (The endless repetition of life and deriving no meaning from it; route of flowers being a predestined plan is also a "nothing matters" nod); Feelings of guilt and the need for penance, terminating in s8 "suicide" / wanting to stay in purgatory *is* suicide btw

S8 Cas - Brainwashing redux; Guilt, lots of changes here, as a result of the brainwashing he needs space to figure out what he's feeling and who he trusts; Nervous about his "crippling" emotions for the human fam but ALSO Feeling afraid of heaven (re: The great escapist and Metatron "Heaven's powers always spill over (to the humans)" and "Who's it gonna be, Castiel, her or YOUR family (human family)?"

S8 Sam - Great big Sam nervous breakdown; totally paralyzed and running away. Even Amelia-Sam was part OF the freakout, something Amelia's father, someone that knew her well and cared about her, recognized (Amelia doesn't wanna go back to her husband, because he can *die* and maybe she's like Sam too in that she's completely allergic to grief, hey?); Sam oscillates between CHECKOUT OF REALITY and WE GOTTA STICK TO THE HUNTING CODE(TM) the same way Dean clung to the simpler hunting code at the beginning of s7; "Don't choke!" Both boys veer between all-or-nothing with regards to the hunting life

S9 Dean - Gadreel and Kevin and feeling like he was doing the wrong thing; Sam's willingness to commit suicide; Cas's symbolic suicide, then Cas falling—we see in Dean’s speech to Metatron that he was desperate to also "Put a Stop to It—to All of It" and his reasons were spelled out clearly, protecting Sam and the distress over Cas's grace/falling/being wronged BY Metatron

S10 Sam - Reacting to Dean's death AGAIN; Reacting to the terrible knowledge that everyone was always sacrificing for him and not the other way around; also a delayed grief reaction to how his family locked him up for detox; and of being an addict himself and fearing that it would end in black eyes and blood (he's not exactly wrong, either; he just went too far)

S10 Cas - Delayed reaction to Jimmy Novak's passing; meeting Claire and wanting to be "like a human"; his guilt was so overpowering; also dealing with his hypocrisy (re: Metatron) about wanting to stay on the earth

S10 Dean - Loss of free will redux, but in the disinhibited direction; dealing with feelings of shame over the loss of free will and past experiences where he also felt powerless or manipulated; he (like Claire Novak) overall tends to choose forgiveness, trying to understand and give grace to those who wronged him; also dealing with being Cole's "Azazel," the parallel to Claire dealing with her "Azazels"

S11 Cas - Delayed reaction to Dean dying in s9, reaction to his grace power reduction (he got his grace BACK and it was damaged), also feeling powerless to protect anyone; the attack dog spell etc etc; Sacrifices himself to the cause

S12 Mary - Huge breakdown because she was ripped from her life and is grieving her entire family as she knew it; feeling like she can't escape from hunting and she corrupted John and in reading his journal she empathizes with his plight while struggling with the cruelty of it; she decides if she can't escape then maybe she can "Put a Stop to It—to All of It."

S12 Cas - Still struggling with the mortality of the human fam (First Blood) and his lack of strength, See Lily Sunder and Stuck in the Middle with You as crisis points. Was enticed by Jack keeping his power because that means he'd have a fam member who could outlive him. The script taps into Cas's wants: Kelly to be at peace, Sam to be free, Dean to be *ahem* thankful, and himself to be strong. Nephilim gives him a cause to not feel guilty about being on earth because it's a Mission (TM)

Nervous breakdowns, man. I can keep going. There are so many nervous breakdowns. SO MANY. And when you look at them AS nervous breakdowns, they make more sense.

[angelsdean]

wait what did jared and jensen say at dencon 2021? i wasn’t on tumblr then and even now i can’t always keep up with everything 🫠

There was a Destiel question which i believe was directed at JUST Jensen abt how meaningful the confession was to the fan and seeing that representation. I forget the specifics of the actual question, but then Jared just started responding before Jensen could say anything. And it was just pure word vomiting abt how spn was abt more than sexuality and I believe he compared Cas saying i love you to Jared telling his children he loves them ??? and you could tell the whole time Jensen was like. going into a panic of "oh shit i need to stop this man from speaking" like you could literally see it on his face. And then Jensen finally got to cut in and he was stumbling over his words and saying how cas's love for dean went BEYOND the romantic (which imo encompasses the romantic AND MORE) and saying that since Cas is a cosmic being his love basically isn't confined by what humans can comprehend and can't be easily defined in human terms, that it "superseded" human concepts of sexual and romantic love (which again to me reads at it is even MORE than just those things).

And then some fans took this to mean that he was trying to "ungay" it or minimize Cas's love for Dean by saying it's cosmic and beyond human comprehension. Like to me what he was saying is that Cas's love is SO great that there just aren't words in human language to properly define that love!!! Yet somehow because it came after Jared's word vomit, Jensen's response got lumped in with that.

Also Jensen used the term "open to interpretation" during that response when he's framing what HIS interpretation is, and this fandom honestly has a horrible knee-jerk reaction to that phrase and automatically thinks it's negative or invalidating when literally it's a GOOD THING for media to be open to interpretation. As someone who literally got their degree in literature one of the first things you learn is that....all media is open to interpretation. And it just comes down to how well you can argue / support your interpretation with canon. And the thing about media being open to interpretation is....it means YOUR interpretation is valid too. Jensen saying this was not him saying "Castiel's for dean love is debatable" it was more "Castiel's love can mean whatever you want it to." That absolutely validates destiel. And it's a very positive statement imo, especially followed by him saying he thinks Cas's love supersedes all known language we have to describe love. Like hello???

Also the sheer hypocrisy of people acting like this was a "hashtag offensive destiel invalidating moment" to say this when I cannot count the amount of times I've seen fellow destiel shippers describe Cas's love for Dean and vice versa as akin to WORSHIP and describe their profound bond and their cosmic narrative defying love as this great powerful force. Of course that kind of love is going to go beyond human language!!! That's so fucking romantic wtf. And the fact that he said all this in front of a predominantly JayTwo / w*ncest audience ??? HUGE. And I'll always be a little salty abt people throwing Jensen under the bus after that con and making a whole big stink about his response. EYE think it was fine, given the circumstances. Great, even. Which is unfortch an unpop opinion in some destiel circles lol.

Anyways this got so long but here's a link to a gifset of his response. I can't find Jared's word vom bc i think we all just chose to delete it from our minds lol.