#i did not want anything that said dan and phil on it i was so embarrassed to be a phannie and that was real of me lmao

[softpine]

can i just word vomit for a min...

there was a point in late 2023 where i felt like i overstayed my welcome on simblr and i planned on just wrapping frozen pines up as quickly as possible and moving on. continuing to write when it's clear that the audience for it is dwindling felt so embarrassing that i almost didn't even want to put effort into it anymore, because i was afraid it just looked pathetic (obligatory disclaimer: no one made me feel this way, you're all so lovely, it's just the nature of seeing a community change over 7 years). writing already feels very personal to me and it's becoming increasingly harder for me to put my work out there (again, for reasons unrelated to simblr and entirely related to mental illness 🤙🏻). i know my story is so long that it deters new readers, and so sporadic that it makes old readers drop off with time. this has really been bothering me lately because i don't know what i can do to fix it. i don't think there IS anything i can do.

but. okay. don't make fun of me for saying this. dan and phil returning to youtube kinda changed my mindset? they may be pulling a fraction of the views they got in their peak, but they're happier than they've ever been and they're working on things they actually want to do, not things they think will be particularly popular. seeing that has made me realize that it is possible to keep finding joy in a community that has largely moved on without you. obviously my little blog is nowhere near the same scale, so this feels kind of silly, but i've been thinking about all the things i used to do on simblr that were never fun for me, i mainly did them because i knew they would get notes or because i felt like i had to do it. making cc, lookbooks, sim requests, reshade help (oh my god the reshade help), lot downloads, etc. they DID get notes, but i can't imagine spending my time doing any of that stuff ever again tbh.

on top of that, it makes me sad to scroll through my dash and realize that i don't recognize most of the people i see anymore. i still talk to some wonderful people here who i consider friends and that's invaluable to me (💖), but the broader community aspect is something i no longer feel a part of. and believe me, i know i'm at fault here because it's not like i'm going out of my way to talk to new people or participate in trends like i used to. i don't blame anyone except the passage of time!!

frozen pines, and simblr by extension, played such a gigantic part in my life when i needed it the most. and that's not to say that i don't still care about it, because i absolutely do, but it's a different kind of feeling. i've always promised that i would give frozen pines a satisfying conclusion rather than silently abandoning it someday, and though i do intend to keep that promise, i know it's possible that i might never get there. but i don't want to let my own insecurities get in the way of something i really enjoy doing. writing is an intrinsic piece of me that i'll never quit doing, but sharing my writing on tumblr is something that can't (and shouldn't) last forever. i know that. but i'm going to enjoy it to the fullest while we're all still here together 💞

to anyone who's still reading my silly story after all these years (especially those of you who still check in on my blog even though you're not on simblr anymore): thank you thank you thank you THANK YOUUU. you don't have to change a single thing about what you're doing. this is not me fishing for compliments or putting down an ultimatum, this is just me trying to make sense of my feelings.

but with all this being said, i've decided to quit simblr and start my own exclusive streaming service for $60 a year, i hope you'll all support me as i increase my production value 😌

(just kidding. ily. okay that's all)

[pseudophan]

on of those twitter phannies yesterday was like “soviet of you haven’t watch BIG in a while maybe you should” in regards to people talking about the hand holding in spooky week and i badly wanted to respond being like ?? basically i’m gay… the video where dan calls phil his soulmate and literally confirms everything 😭 maybe they should watch BIG again actually

there is this weird thing where some people heard dan say that the speculation about his sexuality and invasion of privacy that he endured was traumatic and somehow from that got that he hates so-called "Phan Shippers" and is against anyone talking about him and phil potentially being a couple and it's so bizarre because it's just literally not what he said at all ? and if he did say that it would be highly hypocritical because, and i cannot stress this enough, dan and phil have always leaned into the shipping thing. always. they know it gets them views and they also clearly find it funny. that was never the issue.

the actual issue has always been people demanding answers and straight up harassing them about it, accessing their families' social media looking for clues, showing up at their literal home being weird, and, while closeted, constantly asking them if they're gay. THAT was the issue, that's what dan is talking about in his video.

i'm not even saying the general shipping didn't also get on their nerves sometimes, i'm sure it absolutely did, but that's not at all what dan said really affected him mentally.

the amount of times dan and phil have joked about it, actively encouraged fanfic (both by tongue-in-cheek writing it themselves and many times saying they consider fanfic to be a good creative outlet), referred to themselves as "phan" (a term they coined themselves, lest we forget), gone along with phannie jokes about them being together, and most of all emphasised that they generally try to stay out of fan spaces (i.e. anything they aren't tagged in) because they want us to feel free to be weird and post whatever without being afraid they'll see it... i'm sorry but to then vehemently insist dan and phil hate it when people ship them and are gonna ?? stop uploading again ?? if we do it ?? fucking stupid. and unbelievably annoying. if you don't like rpf that's fine, but there are so many more important issues you could dedicate your time to than policing people going 'aww' over two lameass grown men touching hands.

[goldenpinof]

just gotta say I find the way d&p navigate their relationship fascinating and admirable because like.. if you watch them quite a bit, know the history and stuff it’s so obvious but it’s never so obvious for casual viewers or general public. They can still look like 2 (gay) dudes who live together on the surface.

I think back to what Dan said in BIG “I ain’t exactly been subtle about it have I?” about his sexuality. This feels similar and he’d probably say a similar thing about the ‘mystery’ of their relationship. They’ve not exactly been subtle especially in recent times and back at the beginning. Also the fact they never outright deny anything (yes 2012 times he did but in hindsight we know why) but when asked about their relationship always keep bringing up ‘privacy’ is pretty loud confirmation in its own right. If there’s no romantic relationship to protect or deny why not just put those speculations and rumours to rest?

He knows the people that know KNOW and they seem ok with that & seem to know we understand we’ll never get outright confirmation and that’s fine. But whilst never outright confirming anything they still get to joke about their sex lives/ say stuff like “13 years still keeping it fresh” and joke/pride themselves how well they know each other ect so it must be freeing in a way. Its quite interesting and smart how they handle it

Dan: Why Dan doesn't get married? Because he's scared of commitment.

also Dan: I'm moving into a house with him [Phil].

like, what else do you want, people? he is so loud, it's actually annoying.

[tunnelofphriendship]

on phandom whiteness, race and stereotypes

I've been meaning to make this post for a while. I have never been very active in this fandom space, and part of that has been due to a discomfort I have felt that i have never felt i could discuss openly. So while I want to be a part of this phandom, I need to adress the elephant in the room and I want this sideblog I created to be a space where others like me can feel safe to voice their feelings and thoughts.

To preface this, I am not looking to "cancel" dan and phil. I just want to talk about my experiences both as a hardcore phan for years, and as someone who deviates from the usual dnp fan: I'm not a white person from Europe, US, Canada.

To put it bluntly, some of their videos are extremely hard to watch and enjoy and it makes me feel alienated when no one talks about it. There is no media without "problematic" elements, but I feel like in other fandom spaces people at least talk about elements worth questioning because they may be offensive or ignorant.* And yet dan and phil are hailed as "unproblematic kings" when this is not the case at all, and it's hard to bring up how I feel.

I'm not looking to make a comprehensive list of everything they've said, but I will talk about a few examples to illustrate what I mean.

Sexy Internet Dating (1:59-2:03)

d: whats yo name

p: i like how the guinea pig is now a sassy black woman

A Day in the Life of Phil and Dan! (3:58-4:03)

p: Suncream d: suncream for your albino face p: yea d: i don't need it because i'm already black

Does anyone remember the Mexican Dan thing? He seems to have deleted most of the things associated with that period where he was tan and "jokingly" fancied himself a different race because of it but this little window to that time remains in one of the most beloved videos of all time. Can you see how this might be hard to watch? When even the most iconic videos they've made are sprinkled with little instances of ignorant comments like this?

And let me be clear, I know this was ages ago. I'm aware they might have grown and changed. What really gets to me is how nobody in the phandom ever talks about these moments. It makes me really lonely and disappointed that everyone turns a blind eye to things that might tarnish the image of their faves.

Like for example, the pewdiepie situation. I'm not going to discuss everything he did and said. But imagine how it might feel as a non-white fan to want to rewatch old dnpgames videos and find that they kept their videos with him up all this time:

They were clearly quite friendly with F*lix. Besides these videos, Felix is also casually mentioned in some of their videos and livestreams from the time before he was "cancelled" (more on that later). But did they ever say anything condemning his actions? I think that given how they had collaborated and were friends, I would expect them to say SOMETHING rather than just never speak on the matter (as far as I know, the closest they got to this was in a liveshow where dan said he had had "a conversation" with felix in a way that implied he disapproved of his actions.) Or at the very very least, is it really that hard to delete a video? They have deleted old videos for a variety of reasons. How is collabing with a known racist not reason enough to go through the trouble of deleting a video? But deleting other videos just because they're a bit"cringey" is worth that time?

I just wonder how regretful they really are at having been friends and collaborators with him. In fact, part of me wonders if they are still friends behind the scenes. If this is ever confirmed btw, that will cause me to stop watching them forever. And they might still be friends in their little white circle for all we know. After all dan and phil are long time friends of KickthePj. And PJ is STILL friends with pewdiepie.

Now, besides PJ being dnp's friend and having once been part of the phantastic foursome, I don't care much for his content except for when dan and phil have been featured (lol sorry not sorry). And this might be the case for many of you as well! But some of you ARE avid kickthepj fans and decided to ignore the fact that he uploaded a video with pewdiepie last month. There is no plausible deniability here anymore. Despite the harms pewdiepie has done in internet spaces--and how that extends to real life--NOBODY said anything about how kickthepj doesn't care enough (or at all) to simply NOT make a video with pewdiepie.

It's staggering to me that no one cares. It's shocking to me that in these videos i've mentioned, you go to the comment section and everyone will be happily enjoying the video with no mention of these things.

Is this what being "cancelled" looks like? It seems to me like with the passage of time, Pewdiepie and his friends and followers just want to sweep it all under the rug. How is it that the internet will tear a man to shreds for plagiarism but then find it in themselves to excuse racism?

Why does no one care? Is it because this space is overwhelmingly white? I think so. I think it's a conscious choice to turn a blind eye when it's convenient. So I just wanted to make this post to say that if you ever feel alienated by the white ignorance of dnp or their circle of their fans, then you can come talk to me and I won't ignore you.

I want to be a part of this phandom, I really love dan and phil, but I'm not going to "stan" them. I'm not going to make excuses for them. And I'm not going to keep quiet just so I can be a part of this fandom without making the vast majority of white fans uncomfortable.

*I'm thinking of my experiences in the supernatural fandom. (Although, i'm not saying it's perfect. There are certainly a number of fics that have made me feel very disappointed inthe creator for falling into the trap of racial stereotypes in OCs and stuff like that, and despite that so many people enjoy it and include it in rec lists.)

[fer3112]

you’re so right about the dan and phil relationship deniers thing and I’m glad you said it. At this point, it’s weird to think they’re not in a romantic long term relationship. It almost feels homophobic to me sometimes. Like, if a man and a woman did and said all the things they did, people would call you crazy if you didn’t think they were in a romantic and sexual relationship. it’s like people want them to be this other thing to each other besides a partner?? like obviously they are best friends and they mean so much to each other outside of just romance and sex-to me that’s a soulmate, and Dan has said that too. but that doesn’t mean they’re not in a relationship?? that’s literally what a relationship is, they just have a good and very close and seemingly healthy one. I feel like they could start calling each other boyfriends on camera and people would still be like “hmm, platonic” lmao

It does feel like homophobia with extra steps. Loot at Pj, I don't know much about him but what I know from other phannies is that he's never called Sophie his gf, partner or anything but they live together and work together and no one will try to kill you on twitter if you say they are toghether I wonder why. And maybe with dnp people are still afraid Dan will get mad again or they want to feel morally superior like 'oh I don't think they're together like THOSE tumblr phannies' but the thing is that is not 2012 anymore, hell most of us weren't here in those dommed days, but I promise you, they don't care if you assume they are in a commited romantic relationship, they even play it up in the videos all the time now! From the swinger jokes, to the 'they're touching!' and constantly comparing themselves to dab and evan, it's clear they know we know and they don't care anymore, they just want to be happy and gay and show it off after being in the closet for many years, And it's rude to deny that to them tbh, I'm just going to approacj everything they say and do with a 'whatever you say, beautiful' attitude from now on.

[dnphobe]

Looking at how they've presented themselves over time is always interesting. I think the queer experience of slowly questioning societal and gender norms (and gender, in many cases) is something I recognize in them. Im also curious how Phil's journey is different because he was out to his close ones for a lot longer, and it feels like Dan has more fun shouting about being gay because of the trauma that he associated with the label. I loved seeing their support of queer identities even when they were publicly closeted. It's nice that, even if they weren't comfortable being out, they wanted everyone to know they were a safe space

i agree! the different ways they've presented themselves to us over the years is one of my favourite topics to talk about tbh!

dan's journey wrt to gender presentation and how he feels about gender (not gonna theorise on how he identifies bc what do i know, but to quote him he's fine with being viewed as a man but also not offended if people use pronouns/gendered terms outside of that to refer to him) is interesting because he's said he's always been "flamboyant" but tried to hide that in his youtube career for a long time, and he's gone from saying "i can't do it i'm just such a boy" about painting his nails to having them painted more often than not, but also in day in the life of manchester he said he sometimes wishes he was a girl when looking at 'women's clothing', so it's clearly something he's felt for a long time.

i don't think phil necessarily feels the same pull to be gender non-conforming, but it is also something he's struggled with doing (in one of the stereo shows, when talking about the maid dress he wore in VPMO 2, he said that while it was a cheap joke outfit, a few years ago he would not have felt comfortable wearing a dress at all) so that might be something he's still working toward being comfortable with, but at the same time he's never felt shame about telling us things like he likes using raspberry scented body wash or that he does skin care (while when phil mentioned doing skin care dan was clutched by toxic masculinity saying "don't do- i mean that's fine!"

agree with dan having more fun shouting about being gay because of the trauma and i'm so glad he's reached where he is now! phil...i think for a long time he thought he didn't NEED to shout about being gay, especially because like you said he was out to a few people for longer. but i think it's something he realised he DID want to do after coming out to us. as he said in his coming out one year later video he didn't realise how much of himself he was holding back from us by not being out and it feels like a weight off his shoulders now. i think they both love being gay and shouting about being gay and celebrating that with us and im so proud of phil too <3 i actually have a hot take which is i think if it wasn't for dan's coming out he might have never fully come out to us, not just in a "if dan never had he never would have" way, but in a "if he and dan never met he wouldn't have" way, because he IS a private person and didn't think he was missing out on anything.

i am always so glad they made sure we knew they were accepting of us even if they weren't ready to be out. ngl it got kind of rough in like 2012 for me when dan was so adamantly against people thinking he was gay my own internalised homophobia brain went "does he hate gay people?" but that's on me, not him, or more accurately on BOTH of our internalised homophobia situations lmao. but yeah they've always been so sweet about their queer and trans fans, and one thing i personally appreciate so much is how they will use they/them for any fan they don't know the gender of no matter what their name/appearance/voice would make other people assume their gender to be! i feel so safe with them, and im gonna add this bc im still sappy after this weekend, so safe with phannies too <3 i think phannies queer identities and dnp's queer identities have ALWAYS flowed into each other and both sides of the parasocial line have made the other side feel safe and grow into their identities and helped them accept and appreciate other people's identities.

[ahappyphjl]

as much as we’d love more insight and proper confirmation and kisses and the lot it’s in their best interest they’re not gonna do that. Imagine if they did a reveal. Yeah most people would love it be supportive and go crazy but god imagine how annoying it would then be for them in the long run. You’d get idiots like

“omg Dan called so and so hot that is so rude on Phil’s behalf Phil deserves better”

“omg Phil looked at *insert male YouTuber they’re collating with* for way too long I think he has a crush. And right in front of Dan!! He’s prob at fucking them. how dare he”

Phil liked this hot males shirtless pic, poor Dan will be crushed. How could Phil do that to his boyfriend?!”

“Dan called Phil an idiot in Dan vs Phil. that’s just abuse Phil shouldn’t stand for that from someone that loves him”

“omg Phil looks so bored and didn’t smile at dans joke, trouble in paradise??”

“they didn’t like each others instagram post i think they’re in a rough patch” and so on.

yeah I get why they don’t want to publicly once and for all confirm anything to that extent. Letting people think they know best about their personal life and feeling like it’s in any way theirs to have a say in. What Dan said in BIG about reasons for wanting his dating life private makes total sense and I’m glad him and Phil are in complete agreement about it

those are some good, horrifying examples that sound totally realistic to me. the media can be incredibly cruel and there are lots of ignorant, hateful people out there just waiting to make lives miserable, so yeah i’m very veeery glad they’ve been able to keep most things private and talk about their relationship in their own terms 🙏🏻

[lesbiandanhowell]

Sam reacts to: Reacting to my TERRIBLE Acting

Name change won't stop me from continuing my favourite series of tumblr posts!

- Starting with"acting, is one skill I don't have" is indeed a mood because same! I am decent on a stage, but horrible on camera.

- HE PICKED GERMAN AWWW and he liked it?! This is a first cause usually people hate on the language. He has weirdly good pronunciation for an English speaker, because native english speakers really struggle with german.

- Wait golden pig is a piggy bank?? I should have known but somehow I am surprised.

- Thank you for giving us all the unknown lore because I did not know that Phil was in half of these.

- Anything he does with Dan is just rated higher, I love that.

- He is just making fun of himself the entire time I love that, you got to stop taking yourself so serious and just have fun and Phil has embraced that.

- PJ MAKING THEM PLAY HUSBAND AND WIFE IS ICONIC THANK YOU PJ

- The fact the first one where he said he was in his element was the one where he acted with Dan and they played husband and wife, not thinking about it.

- Dan heyyyyy babe. Him fully being traumatised by this to the point Phil isn't allowed to bring it up is hilarious to me, but I feel for you.

- "We are brothers" "You're adopted" Okay pack it up that's weird.

- I only recently discovered this clip through twitter and honestly I understand why Dan feels haunted by this.

- Dan just wanting to leave and alternatively yapping again and Phil zoning out, husband behaviour off the charts.

- Stop Dan hiding in his shirt is ADORABLE and like you can tell he is the younger one out of the two of them and those are always my favourite moments. Something about him looking younger, looking up to Phil does things to me.

- OH MY GOD the whole sequence of Dan just cussing Phil out and Phil giggling uncontrollably is my new favourite clip.

- Is it good? No but under the circumstances I do think it was better than what I would have been able to do!

- Even when Dan is mad he smiles so big his dimples are popping out and that's why I think he's just a big softie, case closed.

[ahappydnp]

im actually super curious about how dan was having a mental breakdown for most of 2018 for wanting to come out but still feeling like he cant and still feels guilt about not being out while (from at least from what they tell us) phil just... didnt care? like in his older videos he wasnt not shy about it but he never said anything (once again, to my knowledge) ik they had very different experiences growing up gay but it still makes me think

i don't love what you're trying to put down anon and normally i'd ignore these kinds of asks but it's bugging me a bit.

it feels really reductive to say phil didn't care about being closeted. you're right they had different experiences and were in different places in 2018. phil had been out to his closest family and friends for almost a decade. his parents knew, the people who mattered knew, and he's a private person in general compared to dan and doesn't feel the same obligation to be completely vulnerable or open (which once again, if we're talking based on experiences, is beyond fair. not just because of youtube but being outed before he was famous)

dan was focusing on the internal aspects of accepting his sexuality, and hadn't even come out to his family (which phil had do too, he just did it before he had millions of people watching his every move). also phil is once again very private and has admitted he's not great at being honest to others about his feelings, so he's not going to be super candid about his internal monologue.

idk what it's making you think but i hope it's just that everyone's journey is personal and should never be compared to anyone else's, even their partner

[freckliedan]

Hi!!! I just wanted to talk about how Dan and Phil as a brand is so relatable to neurodivergents in the way that they've been treated recently. So DnP built their careers off of being "weird" and "quirky" and socially awkward. That was Their Thing. Dan spoke for years about being violently bullied (quotes such as "being punched in the head by dickheads" stand out as a pre-BIG example of just how violent it got at times), Phil had the Why I Was a Weird Kid series, they both were frequently talked about as being "weird" and "awkward" by other YouTubers - they WERE the "weird" ones of the vlog group. The ones that awkward teens could relate to. Unfortunately, this got the attention of the #imsoquirky crowd who talks like they're experiencing all of these things while also being the same people who would mock me for my autism.

And that's the crowd now saying Dan is too old to be posting catboy photos or saying that the two of them "give the ick now, idk why." And I just can't help but notice how much I relate to that as an autistic and ADHD person. So many times over the years, I've made "friends" who were slightly into my interests, but then got weirded out by how hard I went into them. I think what we're seeing is the same thing happening to Dan and Phil. Drawing cat whiskers on your face to answer questions? Well that's "so cute and quirky"!! (/s). But actually playing as Catboys in JRPGs, dressing up in cat ears, making animal noises (which the two of them always did but ig this group overlooked), etc? Well that's "too far" and "so weird."

I think Dan especially got hit with this because he has more subscribers. When he talks about being bullied, most people can relate to that. But then when he goes and honks a horn in a game repeatedly (which tbh I've done before myself, very ADHD coded of him) or talks about hiding behind vending machines to avoid talking to people, that is suddenly "too annoying/weird" for some of the audience that got into him for his "relatably weird" content.

Sorry this is such a long ramble, but basically Dan and Phil have accidentally become the perfect examples of how kids with autism/ADHD/social pragmatic disorder/nvld/dyspraxia *insert other neurodivergencies that can cause atypical socialization* are treated. People might find your initial "quirkiness" relatable because everyone feels awkward or socially anxious at times, but it's when they see that you are Actually Just Like That and it's not to be #relatable that they turn on you and start saying that you're "too much" and "too weird."

Dan and Phil were the "weird" ones of the British vlog scene, and those of us who tuned into the younows or watched their older videos knew this, but someone who only subbed after watching a meme review or the two of them playing undertale might have assumed that they were the "right" kind of quirky/weird.

This is probably incoherent, but I hope you get what I mean.

this isn't incoherent! just such a well thought out ask i don't have anything to add. there's really specific ways i'm comfortable talking abour dnp + neurodivergence & neurodivergence in general so it's not something i've ever done super in depth posts abt!

i've actually gotten a few really lengthy asks like this over the last few weeks, so this is to you and to my other askers: i really appreciate that folks want to share their ideas with me but sometimes i genuinely don't have enough to contribute in response to add on to what's being said! and that makes it pretty impossible to answer asks like this.

so this is to everyone: feel free to @ me in the replies on your posts! (doing that leaves things cleaner than @ ing in the body of a post, which in my experience means folks are more likely to engage, if that's what you're looking for). especially loop me in about dnp + neurodivergene or dnp + gender!

this isn't a promise i'll rb or even see things, this website's functionality is shit, but like. it's actually way easier for me to see and support than if yall are sending me essay length anons, and this way i + others can find more people who share the same opinions as us! make ur own posts & ppl will follow u i prommy

[dnpbeats]

Just going a little more into the whole thing about understanding young dnp differently now that we have the whole story, something else I have been thinking about so much is queer rights movements and legislation in the uk. Im a good decade younger than them, when gay marriage was legalised I was 12. I was old enough to understand what it was, but i didnt really have any sort of understanding of how it affected me bc i hadnt even started to figure out who i was yet. To me it feels like so long ago, i feel like ive always had it, which is an immense privelage. But dan and phil were not only already in their mid twenties and in a 5 year strong relationship, they already had an active career on youtube. Watching ditl in london, that was the year gay marriage was legalised in the uk. That was who they already were as people and as creators. I cant imagine what it would have been like when the bill passed. They were still so closeted, but that was also such a big win for them and the whole community. I wonder if at the time it still seemed like such a far fetched thing anyway, bc i cant imagine they were even close to wanting to come out yet. Idk if they thought at that point they ever would. And then i think about the fact that they had been in a committed relationship for 5 years at that point. I cant imagine what it would be like to be with my self-proclaimed 'soulmate' and know that you can not legally recognize your relationship. To not know if you ever would. Which then makes sense as to why its not necessarily a priority for them now. Idk, its like you said. Its strange and a little sad to know now who they were then, but in the end it all worked out. They made it to the other side and i could not be happier for them.

oh wow yeah!! im about the same age as you I think, and yes it was much the same for me in the sense that I was aware of same-sex marriage legislation being passed but I had no real grasp on like, what that actually meant for people lol. this got me curious so I went back and tried to see if they ever even talked about same-sex marriage being legalized in the UK. from what I can see they didn't tweet about it at all, and im assuming they didn't make any other statements about it? then in 2015 when it was legalized in the US, they did both tweet, but quite impersonally (I mean I get why im not saying they should've been making grand statements or anything like that). like even setting their relationship aside for a moment, I can imagine it was incredibly difficult for them as two closeted gay men to navigate how to address things like this publicly—obviously when it came to the UK they didn't even address it at all. but im sure it was a huge deal for them to see it legalized just in the sense of what it represents. but even with this landmark that represented lgbtq+ ppl being more generally accepted, they were still closeted, so there was only so much they could say. like I would love to know their thoughts that they couldnt express in 2013/2014/2015 on what it meant to them! but also how it affected them that they couldnt share their thoughts

but then yeah I do wonder how it was for them in the context of their relationship. bc like before it wasn't even a possibility that they could get married. and then they did have the option, but actually not really because they were still closeted, so even if they wanted to they still technically couldnt without outing themselves. but obviously just knowing you now have the option when you couldnt before meant a lot to them im sure

[otdiaftg]

The Raven King - Chapter Two

Day: Wednesday, August 30th Time: 8:30 PM EST *Art used with permission by @ouijacine

"Why didn't Aaron know he had a brother?" Nicky winced, but Neil didn't know what bothered him more: the question or the rough edge in Matt's voice. "They're twins," Nicky said. He waited for them to catch on, looked from one blank face to another, and frowned disbelief. "Think about it for a sec, would you? Imagine you're my Aunt Tilda. How eager would you be to tell Aaron you gave up his brother at birth? She hoped that secret would stay buried forever." "But Aaron found out," Neil said. Nicky flashed Neil a tight-lipped smile. "Yeah, and that's why I believe in fate. See, Aaron was born and raised in San Jose. Apparently Aunt Tilda got bored of dating locally and started going to online matching sites. Right after Aaron turned thirteen Aunt Tilda hooked up with this new guy up in Oakland. Her boyfriend thought they should meet at a Raiders game, something nice and public and fun, so she stuffed Aaron in the car and off they went. Aaron said he was at the concession stand when this cop walked up, calling him Andrew and talking like they knew each other. Aaron thought he was either crazy or confused, but it didn't take the cop long to figure out something was wrong." "Higgins," Matt guessed. "Yeah. Soon as Higgins figured out he had the wrong brother he made Aaron take him back to where Aunt Tilda was. See, Higgins thought Aunt Tilda was another foster mother and that Aaron and Andrew had somehow gotten split up in the system. Higgins wanted to reunite them, so Aunt Tilda gave him her phone number to pass along and took Aaron home again. I don't know why she bothered. Maybe she was too embarrassed to say no or didn't want to explain to a cop what was going on. Either way, Andrew's foster mother called the next day to set up a meet-and-greet, and Aunt Tilda refused. She told the fosters she didn't want anything to do with Andrew, didn't want to know what he was like or how he was doing, nothing. She even made them promise to not contact her ever again." Nicky finished his second drink and mixed a third. "But Aaron knew who was calling, and he was too excited to wait on his mom to hang up to find out the details. As soon as she picked up in the kitchen, he ran to her bedroom and listened in on the upstairs phone. That's how he found out the truth." Nicky looked down at his drink. "Aaron said it was the worst day of his life."

"Jesus," Matt said. "I don't blame him. Did he tell her he'd heard her?" "Oh, yeah. Aaron said they had it out. But Aunt Tilda wouldn't budge, so Aaron went behind her back and called the Oakland PD. He found the PAL coordinators and gave them his information to give to Andrew. Two weeks later he got a letter in the mail that basically said 'Fuck you, go away'." Matt rubbed at his temples. "Yeah, that sounds like Andrew." "Some things never change," Nicky said. "So how'd Aaron change Andrew's mind?" Dan asked. Nicky gave her an odd look. "He didn't." "Wait," Dan said. "What do you mean, he didn't?" "I mean he didn't try again. I don't know who told Andrew's foster parents about Aaron, if it was Andrew or this Phil guy, but Andrew's foster mom wrote Aaron a letter. She wanted Aaron to try again in spring and said something about holidays being rough and there being a lot of changes at the house. So Aaron waited, but he waited too long. In March Andrew went off to juvie, and Aaron started rethinking this brother thing. Two months later Aunt Tilda sold the house in San Jose and moved Aaron to Columbia." Dan looked bewildered. "Then when did they meet?" "Dad found out about Andrew five years ago, so..." Nicky counted time on his fingers. "Four and a half years ago, give or take a bit. Dad went to California to interview Andrew's foster family and stop by juvie. A month later he flew Aaron out so Aaron and Andrew could talk, but I don't count that half-hour supervised session as a first meeting. They met for real when Andrew made early parole a year later and Dad bullied Aunt Tilda into bringing Andrew home." Nicky nursed his drink for a bit. "Weird when you think about it, right? They've only really known each other for three years." "That's messed up," Matt said. "Yeah, and that's the nice version of the story," Nicky said. "Anyway, that's how Aaron and Andrew know Higgins. I don't know why he's calling Andrew now, but I'm not going to ask. I kind of view Andrew's foster life as an off-limits topic. I don't bring it up until he does." "Is that really okay?" Dan asked. "It didn't sound like a 'Long time no see' kind of phone call. What if someone's dug up some past crime of his that could get him taken off our court? Maybe Phil was calling to warn him about an investigation." "Andrew will take care of it," Nicky said. "That's not comforting," Dan said, but she let it drop.

Art used with permission by Ouijacine.

[danrifics]

lol @ people thinking that believing they are together is harmful or disrespectful. dnp know how it looks, both being gay (and coming out around the same time with Dan even bringing up Phil in a vital way in his video) not just living together but in a forever home they designed together. Constant jokes and allusions to relationships & sex, taking photos of/with each other in a state of undress. If they didn’t want people thinking they’re together they could have easily shut it down, especially in their coming out videos.

We can respect that they’ll (probably) never tell us as in ‘yes we are a couple’ or go into the intricacies of their actual relationship but to think they’re not committed for life …I don’t get people who think they’re bros. Read between the lines people

Literally like they had so many opportunities to say they aren’t but they keep just saying shit like Dan in BIG and those magazine interviews and even in distopia daily when Dan was like “are we gay did we fuck” like there’s all these thing a they say that if they really weren’t anything they wouldn’t have said at all. Like even after we all knew the ap bedroom was a set we never saw Phil’s actual room they could have showed us a photo when they admitted it wasn’t real of Phil’s actual room if they wanted to squash anything. Dan could have left that whole section out if BIG but he didn’t because they want us to know without telling us that’s just the way we all are and yeah Idk if they’ll ever tell us, who knows at this point but like Dan told us at least that way in 2009 they were together and if they didn’t want us to think about it any further they could have just never even said anything about that

they do everything for a reason they always have and I truly believe if they didn’t want people to think they were together they would never say half of what they do say

[goldenpinof]

everyone saying yikes at the merch thing,, I do have to wonder if those shops would have closed anyways tho?? Like I don’t see hazel or Carrie or sav really wanting to have a merch shop anymore bc they’re doing other things…. Unless I’m super out the loop I don’t know the beef!!!

who everyone? (haven't seen anything for a long time) they've been trying to close a lot of shops since spring 2023 it seems. so i'm not surprised they finally did. all 3 of the girlies are selling mostly books now if i'm not mistaken. although Sav has merch on her website. who i didn't expect to disappear from irl merch was lilsimsie. now she has her own shop. Dean Dobbs also didn't choose to stop working with them, it came from irl. they wanted to scale back. and time-wise it matched with Sarah and Ryann leaving the company after Dan's tour.

now irl merch has only the most profitable shops. a lot of UK shops stopped shipping to the EU after brexit, and it looked like irl didn't even want to try to solve that problem (like they did for dnp's shops). if there weren't that many non-UK orders and the shops weren't profitable enough then i understand not wanting to spend time and money on logistics that wouldn't pay off. (Dean, Carrie and Hazel stopped shipping to the EU. Sav had it available 100%, lilsimsie — i'm not sure, but i think she also had).

if they (Martyn) doesn't want to hire more people then closing non-profitable shops makes sense. after October 2023 irl merch can't even manage dnp's merch drops. their costumer service sucks ass, no one is managing their social media, they have problems with the availability of the shipping of wad merch and the logistics related to wad merch in general. like, who is responsible for gathering merch items from "all over the world"? they had more than 9 months for that. i'd understand it being a huge ass problem only if there was no one who had time and/or knowledge of how to do that. and i'd bet my ass, if Sarah were still working for irl we wouldn't have this problem. and i say "we" because we're unfortunately affected by all of this. Dan said a lot of words that didn't really make sense and that can potentially be contradicted by what we will see today.

you know how it looks from our perspective? irl merch wasn't ready for dnpg's comeback. Dan and Phil's own company wasn't ready for their comeback and the revival of wad. hilarious, if you ask me.

idk how it went from Sav, Hazel, Carrie, Dean and others to irl merch's problems, but here you go.

[juaxii]

“ KISS ME MORE ”

IN WHICH I tell u how each character would kiss u!

FANDOM: Duskwood (Mobile Game) CHARACTERS: Jake, Jessy, Richy, Phil, Dan, Darkness. CONTENT: Lots of kisses, a bit of spice, Making out, GN reader.

WARNINGS: Suggestive themes. (Tell me if I missed anything)

JAKE DONFORT

Sweet, and slow. Is scared he would lose you if he lets go of you.

His hand rests on your cheek as his lips dances along with yours, he is patient; taking his time with his work, making sure he can keep you there as long as he wants. Specially if it's the first time he kisses you, he would be very careful, afraid he might scare you away, show you what a monster he really is. But that will never happen. He mumbles your name throughout the kiss, as if trying to make sure you're still there and this is not a dream. His hands wander from your cheek to your neck and they slowly go up to massage your scalp, his other hand around your waist, keeping you close. Overall he is rarely too rough with his actions, unless you ask him to be, then he will try.. but he is not good at it. He spends most of his time online, acting harsh and dominant in computer is much easier than real life.. specially with you.

« Say you'll never leave me.. please? »

⚝ ⚝ ⚝

JESSY HAWKINS

Quick, small pecks all over your face that last one second and then turn to a whole make out session.

Her small giggles make you smile as she hugs you close, giving you a kiss on your collarbone before whispering a quick "I love you" and moving on to your chin, leaving trails of quick kisses that make you almost laugh just because of that ticklish feeling. Once her lips find their way to yours, she doesn't waste a second before capturing them. It starts with an innocent small kiss, but it soon turns to her caressing your lips with her tongue, and who are you to deny such thing?! She isn't rough by all means, and she is kind of goofy even, giggling and breaking the kiss from time to time to kiss your cheeks or your neck. She just really wants to appreciate you! She is the hardest to resist, and usually she's the one who asks for the kiss or starts it.

« Come ooooon, just one more kiss, please! »

⚝ ⚝ ⚝

RICHY ROGER

He is much like Jessy, a little silly and goofy, but he is much more shy and would just intend small kisses.

He is really awkward, he doesn't know what he's doing so he only gives you a small kiss on your forehead at first. When he sees your disappointed face, he chuckles slightly, Teasing you by saying something like "If you want it, you should come get it". Obviously, he wasn't expecting you to actually try anything and when you did he just stands there.. not knowing where to put his hands or how to hold you closer so that this wouldn't be more awkward than it already is. He gets used to it at some point, it's not like he hasn't had partners before, but your case was different. You were special to him, you could read him like an open book, he felt like if he let you look him in his eyes, you would know every last of his darkest secrets. So by all means, he isn't the first to intend the kiss, he prefers to kiss you on your cheeks or your forehead or even on the back of your hand.

« You want a kiss? Alright, a kiss coming right up! haha »

⚝ ⚝ ⚝

PHIL HAWKINS

Passionate make out session, he isn't really a patient man.

Like I said, he isn't a patient man, his kisses might start slow but would quickly turn to a make out session and even that might turn to a quicky if he's is in the mood. He gives you kisses at the most random times, specially if you're with the group. He likes to show you off so he will, he enjoys the looks you two get as he suddenly smashes his lips against yours. But in private, he's much more intimate and if PDA makes you uncomfortable he will definitely keep himself from doing anything too much in public. He's a womanizer, sure, but he's also a gentleman. He likes to shower you with affection and make you feel special so expect kisses on the back of your hand. I would also like to add that he would definitely consider your mood too before he intends anything (not that the others don't), because your comfort is his priority.

« Yeah? you want more? we can always take it to the bedroom~ »

⚝ ⚝ ⚝

DAN ANDERSON

He's not much for kisses but if you ask for it, he will give you kisses alright.

He is the type to spoil you with classy dinner or great food at home if needed, he isn't up for kisses like I said, mostly because he thinks his beard would annoy you but he also doesn't want to shave it. So unless you ask for it, he wouldn't really kiss you on the lips all that much. He gives you alot of kisses on your forehead though. But let's say you ask for a kiss, this man gives his all to satisfy your needs. He makes sure you are comfortable with anything he's doing before doing it and he keeps asking for permission, he is just a big softie, he is like those big human sized teddy bears. He isn't rough either, he is lazy and slow, he prefers it that way in all honestly. He is also a little messy but not that much.

« You want a kiss, babe? well aight then, get over here, I ain't getting up from here »

⚝ ⚝ ⚝

DARKNESS

Insecure, awkward and quick kisses.

They don't understand the concept of intimate acts such as this, can't you two just have fun with game nights or horror movie marathon? If you ask for it, they will just awkwardly give it to you. They've never been in a serious relationship so they aren't exactly experimented with this whole act, nonetheless they will try their best. Their kisses start as quick pecks, and they slowly turn to a slow passionate kiss. They are also afraid of losing you, so in the middle of it all, they suddenly start holding you really tightly as if they are afraid you'd run away, because they are the weird kid, the freak that spends their time online scaring people away and being all mysterious and shit.. they can't be like that in real life. They are the type to say some creepy shits in between kisses, those are their sweet nothings that they whisper to you, it's a form of love, I swear. After kissing you for what feels like forever, they would start cuddling you, not even paying attention to the movie you were watching anymore as they close their eyes, breathing in your scent and slowly giving you small kisses on your neck in a form of appreciation.

« Turn the movie off, it's annoying. I wanna hear your heartbeat »

[alittledizzy]

Dizzy, I feel like I need your levelheadedness a bit rn... so that tweet, huh? Idk, I'm trying to look at it as sth not in a vacuum, his main is the least serious of all of his accounts and often he says things just to be a meme (plus that "lying" likes he just did), but it all feels weird. I feel like I've been witnessing a gradual progression of what they're willing to show us of their relationship the last few months and someone pulled a rug from under me and I'm all disoriented. Could be a play on words as well (we know Dream doesn't identify as gay) but I feel like I'm grasping at straws... do you have any thoughts?

I think feeling disoriented over it is a natural response - but here are my thoughts. They might be a little scattered too but my brain is just in that phase of taking in information and processing.

First thought: The progression of what just happened: he snapped pictures of him literally in the closet, then made that tweet, then liked a few responses saying he was lying. Which ties into...

Second thought: The tweet is also on his main account. Like you said, it's the least serious account, if you scroll through the only serious thing he's tweeted in half a year is 'merry christmas' - everything on there is a troll. Considering what the quote retweets look like, I think he's just written the account off and puts things there he doesn't feel like are a serious announcement or that he doesn't really want factored into the smaller audience of his genuine fanbase. Not that his fanbase doesn't see them but it's like - if he's talking to his people he has other accounts for that. That doesn't mean he didn't put it out there because some part of him felt like it would make him/George feel better to say, just that he also didn't want to say it in a way that didn't leave room for doubt. It's serious enough to be serious unless you know him and the context in which it's an automatic side-eye. Which leads to... Third thought: If the tweet had any serious elements to it, I think it's entirely likely it would be a kneejerk reaction to people telling the Spanish speaking streaming community that dnf is real and perhaps that being too much too fast for them - particularly George, who doesn't want anyone to know anything about him. Having come through the fires of Dan and Phil fandom, even if they were soft launching because they were happy in a new relationship and wanted to share, sometimes the journey of sexuality and relationships are one step forward, two steps back.

Especially if you're George and guard your personal information fiercely, especially if you're Dream that is terrified of putting himself out there with a label that might be 'wrong' and therefore doesn't want to definitively say he's anything.

Dream's comfort level is in eliminating what he's not (I'm not gay, I'm not straight) not in specifying what he is.

George's comfort level is posting a snapchat where he shows you has a smoothie and that's really the most you need to know about him as far as he's concerned.

So suddenly having people you want to be friends with addressing you and your relationship with complete sincerity when you haven't even had a chance to get comfortable with a soft launch amongst what you consider 'your' demographic might definitely cause a scurry of steps backwards. I'm a truther because it's fun and fandom is about having fun and enjoying the complexities of people and their dynamics. So I think about Dan and Phil, I think about people that go to great lengths to tie their lives and futures together. Buying a house, moving across the world, making sure everyone knows loud and clear this is your person - that can co-exist with fear and hesitation and not knowing how the world will accept you and not being sure if you want to leave the safety net you've made for yourself. So I guess a big part of me looks at this situation and thinks... seeing them work their way back up to comfort is gonna be so fun.