#i love looking up lyrics i love analyzing lyrics i love connecting lyrics between old and new tracks

[evansboyfriend]

week 6 into the hyperfixation™

[noangeleither]

"fixing" the panic attack scene to be more platonic ™

im extremely active on twt and have been noticing a sydcarmy tweet go viral multiple times a week (like w thousands of interactions its crazy), and its really great to see how much people love and see it for this ship. recently carmys panic attack scene went viral again, and naturally, some ppl gave their piece about how we are all dumb for interpreting it as romantic. that sydney represents his love for his job or his duty to the restaurant (*sigh*).

this scene imo, is the most concrete proof of this ship. i can excuse (not really) interpreting every interaction between them thus far as platonic but this scene....i just refuse. this is gonna be a long post, not analyzing the scene per se because i can't possibly say anything that hasn't already been said but more "fixing" the scene to fit the narrative of antis, and i hope in doing so really shows there's no other way to interpret this scene as other than romantic. again its gonna be a long post bc im just ranting and i think i will lose my mind if i dont type this out.

lets go.

so first off i like to think of this scene as an equation/experiment. simply a problem that needs to be solved.

problem/reason of panic = ...we will discuss this...

solution # 1 = claire -> failed

solution # 2 = sydney -> worked.

Problem/Reason

s02e09 opens up with carmy and claire finally consummating their relationship, with an interesting song choice might i add and carmy dissociating, looking sad, or broken (???) after. because many have said carmy pulling memories of sydney from his psyche to calm down have to do with work i always remember that, it really doesnt make any sense?

carmy is clearly having a panic attack due to him not being "fixed" as soon as he made it official with claire. he felt pressure from his family both currently and in the past to date claire because she is amazing and perfect. add mikey also being a part of that crowd, and carmy so desperately trying to connect with him when he cannot, is why i think he looks so despondent after that scene. i truly think he thought he would be a changed person after everything with claire and when that didn't happen he flipped...

we know this is the reason bc his panic attack starts with their sex scene and the lyric "I dont know" from strange currencies by REM.

this isn't to say that he isn't nervous or stressed about the soft open but its clear that he's not having a panic attack about work nor have we ever seen him have a work-related panic attack (correct me if I'm wrong). in s1 he has one or two due to him greiving his brother.

platonic fix: To make it about work I would have added scenes like when Carmy started that stove fire in braciole, his meltdown in review, some scenes of his horrible time at EMP, and him grieving his brother. i think these would represent his fear of failure, falling back into old toxic habits pertaining his career, the fear of fostering a toxic work environment like the ny chef and also the idea of "failing" mikey

but theres a reason why none of this occurs bc its not about his job or the opening of the bear. this is explicitly about his personal and romantic love life.

Solution # 1 : Claire

carmy proceeds to try and calm down by thinking of claire through literal rose-coloured glasses...

the music is distorted, he's thinking of his abusive family, he remembers every one pushing him to date claire bc shes a #goodthing.

again...this is not about his job and wouldnt make sense to think of sydneys place in his work life as a soultion to his clear personal problem....

platonic fix: in the story of carmys love life claire and sydney act as narrative foils. they have been compared and contrasted for all of s2. my platonic fix for this would be making the NY chef this first "solution" of a work-related panic attack. he represents a horrible time in his life but also represents a time when carmy was at the height of his career. when carmy gets locked in the walk in and has his monologue, its alluded to that he will revert back to that mind set in order to not let everyone down.

NY chef abused him for so long, it makes sense that carmys psyche would readily go back to his insults and the time he himself was an isolated 'psycho' bc it yielded results.

nothing is black and white and i DO think sydney represents a healthier approach to the toxic mess that is the culinary world and does represent that for carmy. if the show was invested in that, sydney and the NY chef could be overtly contrasted like sydney and claire have been.

BUT again this isnt about his job and dedication as a chef...thus why he tries to think of claire to solve his personal problem, and it fails.

Solution # 2: Sydney

LMFAOOO.

carmy then in a crazy plot twist starts thinking of his platonic work bestie sydney adamu....the love song dedicated by the show to his relationship with his girlfriend is then made clear highlighting some pretty damning lyrics about desire and love.....all platonic btw. yes you are dumb if you think otherwise (*wink*)

I actually have two platonic fixes for this...

platonic fix # 1: if we only wanted to focus on sydney as a person who calms carmy down because shes his work bestie who represents his responsibilty to the bear and the postive change they are trying effect in the culinary world, i would add scenes where they are...you know actually cooking???

i think its pretty crazy how the memories carmys immediately jump to are ones that have little to do with their jobs. when they first meet (would also like to note that when carmy first laid eyes on Sydney, he forgot she was there for a job, so this is his raw reaction to seeing a pretty girl lol) and when she comes back after she quit and their break up fight.

i would add their scenes in carmys kitchen (even tho this is extremely damning bc they were flirting DOWN - they don't make this easy at all). this represents their collaboration skills and the way they WORK and bounce ideas off of each other seamlessly. specifically the scene about him wanting to give her a star, representing his duty to her and the restaurant.

*and no shade to carmy but if his responsibility to the bear/syd as a co-worker was bothering him this much and calmed him down wouldn't he have just immediately called the fridge guy.....anyways*

platonic fix # 2 (the best one): if i was chris storer and joanna calo and i REALLY wanted to sell it that carmy isnt in love with sydney then i would put every single member of the OG beef crew + Nat to calm him down not just Sydney.

im talking to them laughing at family, carmy giving tina his chefs knife, richie in his new suit, carmys one on one w Marcus/trying his donut, nat telling carmy shes pregnant (signifing rebirth/wanting to rid all the toxic abuse from his family), carmy trying sydney risotto, and her face when he said it was tremendous etc etc...you get the gist

and honestly?

even as i type this out im tearing up a little bit bc that would have been really beautiful. carmy is changing. he can and is getting rid of old toxic habits from his family and the mess that is the culinary industry. things are changing for the better....that would be beautiful....IF his panic attack was about any of these things lol.

and to even look at this scene without this need for symmetry and we entertain the idea of carmy thinking about his job as a solution for his personal problem...carmy has said himself (s02e01) that this isnt fun for him. i dont think that means he hates cooking i kinda disagree with the ppl who think he isnt passionate about it. i just think currently its something that doesnt bring him joy but i do think its something hes starting to or at least could have started to enjoy if he just committed to working with syd...

conclusion

theres a lot of....delusion? denial? straight up bias? yes all of that, going on.

idk what is happening bc this show is really great at being subtle. but i dont know whats more in your face, dumbed down, even a toddler could understand, than this scene. if you dont come out of this understanding that carmy is falling in love/currently in love with Sydney...and i hate using this term..but you just arent media literate.

bonus: bc it makes me laugh and connects the purpose and solutions.

i think we need a Snyder Sydcarmy Cut™ of bolognese and omelette.

the start of the episode is when sydney and carmy fight over claires inclusion in the menu, and also when sydney randomly asks him to define his relationship with Claire. the episode would continue until we get to the table scene.

i think its WILD how as soon as Sydney asks him to define their relationship, carmy starts calling claire his girlfriend. then the show proceeds to insert sydney in their romantic montage, shows her tattoo about heartbreak and someone getting in the way of your relationship...THEN proceeds to have carmy compare these two women in his mind and only calms down after seeing Sydney.

i could talk about this scene for AGES. wheres the straitjacket....

[thewalrusespublicist]

Stress Testing Song Lyric Theories: Real Love/Real Life/Stepping Out Demo Meta

What's this? Another long-ass essay analysis on a piece of John Lennon's media that keeps getting taken down by the Ono Lennon estate? More likely than you think (especially when you're this autistic).

As a history obsessive and a grizzled, mood ruining, eternal hater/skeptic, I have misgivings when people in the Beatles fandom look at song lyrics only through one specific lens/focus as it can lead to a myopic and potentially inaccurate take of the subject matter. This I've noticed is particularly bad with older Beatles fans looking at John's work through just the Yoko lens and other fans looking at it just through the Paul lens. (This ain't a lecture btw, I am as guilty as anyone when it comes to doing both.)

When dealing with contentious things like interpreting feelings and songs (nothing could POSSIBLY go wrong with that combo lol), it's important to get at least the facts we do have straight, which is why I wanted to go through some of the fandom's darlings and take them apart to see if the theories about them actually hold up to scrutiny.

To start out, I'd thought I go big with having a proper look at John Lennon's 1977 real life/real love/stepping out demo. I wanted to tackle this one as this is one of only three unconfirmed songs in John's catalogue that I was 100 % convinced was about Paul. As I've mentioned before, this was to me the smoking gun to end all smoking guns, my golden calf, Real Love demo my beloved etc. Got to say, I'm glad I did, as the outcome was a lot more complicated than expected! So let's get to the demo:

Analyzing songs for a fixed specific meaning or one coherent subject is always ... challenging. Songs are a medium to express both real or imagined concepts, feelings and events. You can't know everything about the artist's thought process and therefore their work, especially in regards to what is fictional/metaphorical and what is real (pun intended). What's special about this demo though (and what makes it easier to work with) is the fact that its less of a fully crafted song and more one long stream of consciousness ramble. The line between subject and artist is dissolved as we sit at the piano with John as he tells us about his miserable morning:

Woke up this morning. Blues around my head. Ain't no need to ask the reason why. Went to the kitchen. Lit a cigarette. Blew the smoke rings in the sky. Just got to let it go. Just got to let it go.

The song (or ramble) carries on like that for a while as we get to John reading the newspaper (keep this bit in mind, it might come in handy later):

Picked up the paper. Read the Daily News. Nothing doing anyway. Same old BS. Doot doot doot doot cruise. Nah nah nah nah now. Let go. Let it go. (laughs) No, what am I doing? Why don't you let it go? Why don't you let it go? Mm, it's real life. It's real. Yes, it's real life. It's real. Let go. Let the mighty river flow. Let go. Let go. Oh, rock your balls, you...

As we can see in the stanza above, John is bored and clearly agitated/embarrassed about something.

Then more stanzas about boredom and a lack of fulfilment wherever he goes and then we get to the stanza that everyone here is probably familiar with:

Was I just dreaming or was it only yesterday? I used to hold you in my arms. And now a baby, and another on the way (laughs) la la la la la farm (laughs) Why must we be alone? Wah wah wah wah wah wah wah. (scats)

If it don't feel right, don't do it. If it don't look right, look right through it If it don't feel right, don't do it. Just call him/them on the phone.

People go insane over this stanza and for good reason. It's a confession of lost intimacy with someone who:

Is clearly important to John

He is now more distant with

Is connected to babies or having a baby

Is connected to a farm

The mystery of course is, who is this person? Realistically, there is only really three people we know of who even somewhat fit these specific categories. Let's go through them:

First potential subject: Yoko!

This one has some legs. More than I was expecting. At this point John and her:

Do have an infant

Are purchasing a farm together (I think the sale went through 1978 so they should be talking about that in 1977.)

Distant from one another (their marriage was rocky throughout the mid-late 70s)

With Yoko as the subject, the stanza could be a reflection of their lost intimacy:

Was I just dreaming or was it only yesterday? I used to hold you in my arms. - self explanatory, the yesterday here has no significance but to signify nostalgia. The dream in this circumstance could be the dream of their relationship, The Ballad of John and Yoko.

And now a baby, and another on the way (laughs) la la la la la farm (laughs) - A long time has passed, they have a kid now. Now this takes some manipulation but is the farm 'the baby on the way'? The new shared project that will take further attention away from their marriage? The laugh might indicate a sense of irony there, a bitter joke. Yoko and John have struggled to conceive, Sean is very likely their only shared child. Is the laugh brought about by a sad reflection of the farm replacing the gap of children?

Why must we be alone? Wah wah wah wah wah wah wah. (scats) - we are in this marriage but we are alone OR why are we alone? Their marriage was a cocoon, all-consuming but stifling. Maybe both of them needed air from time-to-time.

So this stanza alone works quite well to be about Yoko, if you go quite metaphorical. It works somewhat with the beginning as well, he's down and depressed, over the state of their marriage? He needs to let something go, an argument? Is he waking up to the fact that reality isn't this marriage fantasy?

What it doesen't straightforwardly answer is why he is SO mad/embarrassed/avoidant of these feelings? In the records we have of their conversations, John is usually VERY vocal about not seeing Yoko enough. So why is he holding feelings of distance back and wanting to forget about it?

It also doesn't answer why the person he is calling in the following stanza on the phone is a him/them. (It's hard to hear at a normal volume. but if you are an insane person and blast your headphones to an ear bleeding level, it sounds a lot more like him than them. For the sake of caution and covering all bases however, let's consider both for now.) Why would he have reticence calling his wife or refer to her as them? In all accounts of that time period he has no issue calling her or hell, just going and talking to HIS WIFE who lives in their shared flat. It's a weird, dangling thread. The only explanation that would fit the stanza being inspired by Yoko is John realising he needs connection outside of his fading marriage. (I want to raise and partially dismiss here that it could just be a separate train of thought, a reminder to himself that he has to call someone for a chore/service. Yoko handled most of the admin stuff so its not like he's doing any of that and he isn't doing anything professionally so its unlikely to be a random call).

Second potential subject: May Pang!

Now I almost dismissed May outright but girl you know what, good for you, this might actually be about you! Our dear May is:

Important to John (she's also in the diaries and he dreams about sleeping with her a lot, he is REALLY into May)

Distant now he and Yoko are back together

But not baby nor farm adjacent

Taking May in mind, there is a certain logic there. John allegedly does dream about May and sleeping with May so whilst the Yesterday has no significance, the dreaming would. She was his romantic partner and still into her so holding in arms makes sense. The next lines also make sense if you follow the same logic as Yoko's but more distanced. Time has passed and his circumstances with the baby and the farm is now massively different to before, maybe he wants an escape from responsibility represented by May?

With May in mind, the stanzas work a lot better than it does Yoko. It's real life, he can't be with her and he's got to let it go. But he can't so he wants to call 'them'. Or maybe he's had a fight with Yoko and is being reminded of May in his agitation.

So May works from an emotional standpoint and as long as that last line is really 'them'. (It begs the question of why not 'her' but anyway.) As it stands, May seems like a stronger candidate than Yoko in terms of the songs emotional logic.

So currently, May is in the lead but wait ... there's another contender...

Third potential subject: Paul!

Now this one is I think the fan favourite opinion on this site for this song and there's merit to it. Paul is:

Important to John

Relationship now distant (but not apparently distant enough for John to ALLEGEDLY stop dedicating pagggess to him in his diary/meet for dinner when they are in town/visit for Christmas).

Doesen't have a baby but he is expecting one with Linda.

John's got problems and those problems are usually projected onto a Paul shaped target. But beneath all that, was there any softness left, any tenderness?

Well yes, its fucking John Lennon, the man was a giant marshmallow with knives sticking out.

But in this song? Let's look at the stanza with Paul in mind:

Was I just dreaming or was it only yesterday? I used to hold you in my arms. - in the first line we have the 'oh shit Paul feelings incoming' klaxon of yesterday. Of course, John is allowed to reference yesterday without it necessarily being about Paul, but it's something to make a note of. Another is the dreaming. John often associates the Beatles/Paul with a dream, a fantasy, an illusion. Was his time with Paul/their closeness a dream? He is also ALLEGEDLY dreaming of Paul a lot during this period. The distance implied by yesterday also suggests a time period more applicable to Paul than Yoko/May.

The holding in arms with Paul in mind is ... well. There's no two ways about it it's unusual to think about a best friend like that. Taking out romantic implications for the sake of argument, firstly it doesn't have to be literal (just the idea of closeness) and second of all it would be like the fiftieth weirdest thing John said about Paul John has expressed similar sentiments of enjoying physical touch and closeness with a close mate.

And now a baby, and another on the way (laughs) la la la la la farm (laughs) - also needs manipulation here but still works. John's got a baby with his wife now Paul has a baby on the way with his wife yet their lives are completely separate. John could also be talking in extremes, Paul has just had a kid now another (he exaggerates the number of kids Paul has often). Paul lives on a farm, which John has been very focused on before (stttreeetch but maybe this is a point of comparison, they are still mirroring each other). The laugh here in this reading is a acknowledgement of vulnerability of the feelings he's singing about.

Why must we be alone? Wah wah wah wah wah wah wah. (scats) - harder to reconcile with Paul but could be John's projection hours, I am feeling alone therefore Paul must ALSO be feeling alone (unagi or some shit).

So the stanza also works well if we take it to be about Paul. I've said this in a prev post but being about Paul also makes the rest of the song more coherent. John is upset about something he is trying to let go of but is struggling with, he references being everywhere yet remains depressed and troubled by something in his past. All of this fits with John's relationship with Paul. With Paul in mind, the call line at the end makes a lot more sense. He wants to call him, or them, his friends who he hasn't spoken to and misses.

The big supporting evidence for this one is of course the newspaper articles for the Daily News found by a user on here who has sadly deactivated.

To be honest, these are a bit of a holy grail find. With the newspaper articles in mind, a coherent, nearly perfect narrative falls neatly into place. John has woken up in a bad mood and upon reading the paper he sinks into a worse mood as he reflects back on his old time with the Beatles. He feels the need to let it go yet is resentful and embarrassed about doing so. The articles also explain a few oddities of the song, namely why John just comes out with the word cruise just after discussing the paper:

Picked up the paper. Read the Daily News. Nothing doing anyway. Same old BS. Doot doot doot doot cruise. Nah nah nah nah now. Let go. Let it go. (laughs) No, what am I doing? Why don't you let it go? Why don't you let it go? Mm, it's real life.

If we consider that the newspaper contained the article about cruises, it makes sense for it to come out as a subconscious/conscious association (have checked btw as the audio isn't clear and it's absolutely cruise, it's much clearer when you decide your hearing is worth less than a parasocial fascination with a dead dude). The newspaper containing info about Paul also illuminates the potential reference to Paul's song 'Suicide' in the Nothing Doing line and why the stanza seems to go off the rails once the newspaper is mentioned. It's all BS apparently (classic John defense mechanism in play) but once it gets brought up, John laughs, starts questioning what he's even doing writing this song and then gets angry with himself, cutting off the first half of the take. The derailment there could be he can't believe he's singing about the news OR that the newspaper contains the emotional point he's trying to get away from. He then does a few pithy lines about the beach and mountain before circling to actually what's bothering him, the lost intimacy with the person who has a baby on the way and renewed desire to call him. The way it all fits and slots together is borderline unreal.

Buuuuttt ... there's a problem. No matter how fitting, how magically perfect, how right-seeming a theory is, it doesen't necessarily mean it's true. For it to work fully, John would have had to have recorded this on one (or two at a stretch) specific day(s) out of the whole year. It could still be about Paul of course if you take out the newspaper article element, however there are other timing issues as well. According to Dogget, this demo should date to a recording collection from late 1977 when John was going through a depressive episode, the article is dated to early 1977. Shortening the window further, the Ono-Lennon's took a trip to Japan from Summer to October and the Mccartney's third child was born in September, meaning that if it is from late 1977, its unlikely to be about Paul.

Now Dogget could very well be mistaken and this demo is from earlier on in the year. From research, the only thing I could find about John and Yoko in February 1977 is them going to visit a friend a few hours away on the 16th, so from the limited evidence I have at my disposal, there isnt a reason why it couldn't have been produced in February (if anyone has any info on early 1977 please let me know and I'll amend accordingly). Additionally, John's moods were mercurial and his mental health never great, it wouldn't surprise me if he had bad days pretty consistently throughout the year.

To wrap this whole ass dissertation up, from the context within the song, context of the major players in his life, the emotional logic of the song and the repeated references in addition to the newspaper clipping, I am 70% confident that this demo is about Paul and that Dogget was incorrect in his attribution of the demo to late 1977. I believe instead that this was recorded in early 1977, specifically on February 9th 1977 as indicated in the newspaper article. However, I am more than willing to concede that I am working on less information than I would like about John's movements at that time in early 1977 and why Dogget placed all of these in the late 1977 grouping (I think just vibes but wasn't sure, the google books page had that bit blocked lol). Therefore I think that a less likely but still plausible second option is that the subject is May or even Yoko in late 1977 during John's extended period of depression.

Power to all of you who made it this far, let me know if you want me to take a hatchet to any more fandom darlings or if you have any thing to add! Also remember this is only my analysis so feel free to disagree (but like in a fun friendly way pls, it isn't that serious)!

[yeyinde]

Lev!!! you cannot just post that masterpiece and dip. I cannot breathe. I'm grinning like a fucking baffon in my room and thank god it's sunday or else I sure would've call in sick. I'm not kidding. I have no self control and I would've read this at my workplace and God, I don't want to picture me squirming in my seat with a 60yr old woman sitting 2 feet away.

the way you write, smut or not, you include these tiny little details that people wouldn't notice, not even in real life, not even during that particular moment of ecstacy and somehow make it even more smuttier(?). it's never in and out with a grunt here and growl there with your works. it's a whole fucking experience and I have to have a mini freak out and mentally prepare myself before I read any of your work. your single fic is better than many published books I've read.

God, I would love to sit inside your brain and intercept every single one of your tho(ugh)t processes, analyze why you decided to put one particular word over another and such (also I was picturing Price on all fours until you mentioned that he was on his back. what's your thought process there?).

anyway, I'll rb your fic after I have an another proper meltdown so that I can get access to some coherent thoughts and the ability to string words together.

p.s:(I would very much like to deck that one editor that told me fanfic is not real writing and shove this masterpiece down their throat)

p.p.s: I get anxious when I send ask without anon ( don't know why) but I really wanted to send that pic cause that's what it looked like when you posted it.

p.p.p.s: (this is the last one promise) were you listening to purity ring when you wrote it? why that song? sorry for the long ass ask.

OMGGGGGGG for some reason, this does not show up on tumblr mobile - which is what I primarily use unless I'm posting a fic! So I am so so so sorry it took so long for me to reply!!

And AHHHHHH!! This is too much for me, honestly! You're way too nice about the rampant filth I write!!!! I had so many emotions reading this that I can't even begin to process ANY of them!! THANK YOU!!!

As for some of the questions posed:

With Price, I tried to be as true to his character (or the way I perceive his character) as I could be when I wrote this. I know it's just smut, and pegging smut at that!, but I like realism in whatever I read and since I usually write stuff that I like, I needed to include it. It had to make sense to me. I don't think Price would do this with just anyone, but if he mentioned it - he wants it. He was fairly confident through the whole thing, whereas MC was freaking out. I liked the contrast between their characters.

I don't think he'd be inclined to be on his knees for the first time. It would be something he needs to build up to before he gives up that aspect of himself. This was already quite a heavy experience, and so. It just made sense to me that he'd be on his back, with MC over him so he can watch their expressions, and take in the experience as it flickers over their face.

It's also infinitely more intimate, which is what - in Price's head - was the goal?? Like, it was a hot moment, but it was also fostering more trust, and taking a deeper plunge into their relationship. It delves into this a bit more at the end when MC finally has a moment to step away from "JESUS I AM "BALLS" DEEP INSIDE CAP PRICE RIGHT NOW" and look at things with a wider perspective.

It also gives him a modicum of control as well. Which, I think is the basal aspect of his character.

That's quite wordy for what this fic is, OMG. That's sort of what I volleyed back and forth in my head before writing this one.

And I was listening to Purity Ring!!! I rediscovered them through Letterkenny and this song is quite intense to me. The lyrics are just so PERFECT. All of my fics have connecting songs to them that either set the tone when I was writing or explore a different facet of what I want to convey through the lyrics. Usually, it's just atmosphere, but for Fineshrine - it was both!

Ahh, I get so nervous when stuff gets so wordy!!!!! Sorry for the spiel!

This was such a lovely message, and I am so gutted I only found it now. Thank you so much! It genuinely baffles me when people take an interest in my thoughts behind the smut, but this absolutely made my entire week. I will not stop thinking about this - I just know it. AHHHHHH. You're way too sweet!!!!

[onewingedangel3]

so, hangman changed his spotify playlist and as far as i know he has changed everything (except for "that funny feeling", which is still there). so, obviously, i have to analyze this. enjoy!

The spotify list:

if anyone is unaware, our anxious millenial cowboy has a public spotify playlist, "anxious millenial cowboy". however, these songs are often ones that you can can connect to his character. i think it's a great and creative way to let the fans know what his headspace is at the moment! (check it out!!).

so, what do i think hangman is trying to convey with his new songs?

well, i think he is hinting a lot at an elite reformation. "the good old days" is a theme referenced in multiple songs throughout this playlist, which i take as him thinking back about his days in the elite, just him, kenny, and the bucks.

a hangman and bucks reconciliation is further supported by songs like "Heavy crown", a song about hardships within a friendship, and "Sooner than later", where a lyric that really hammers this theme home is:

"So tell me how should I say "I'm sorry." I swear by this time next year we're gonna have more money"

i believe that in with this song hangman is trying to convey that he wants to make up with the bucks, but is having a hard time doing so. much like how after the FTR-manipulated betrayal hangman tried to say sorry to them but failed or was unable to.

the song "send the moon" on the playlist also hints at a him wanting to reunite with the bucks, and there is a lyric i think is interesting here;

"Well, it’s hard to be apart, so many miles in between. Laying here in the dark, are you thinking of me?"

obviously hangman is not literally miles apart from the bucks, but within aew and their stables/factions, they are as far apart as they can be. hangman is with the dorkiest heel-turned-face faction, who just want the best for eachother, while the bucks are in the most assholey face-turned-heels stable in aew, currently being led by adam cole, the man who is very clearly trying to manipulate everyone else to hate hangman to not have his power within the group trivialized. hangman is also afraid that the bucks are not open to reconciliation at all (which is clearly not true, since the bucks have repeatedly refused to fight hangman with cole, and changed their header image on twitter recently to just the three of them).

several songs on this playlist are connected with the theme of running away. i do not believe this is about him literally running away from fights or otherwise, but rather from who he is. a lot of the songs are about running away to, yet again, "the good old days". a song showing this is the nina simone version of "Stars", used in the bojack horseman episode "Well that went well". if you aren't familiar with this episode (or bojack horseman in general), in the end of the episode where this is playing bojack almost commits suicide, but stops his car and looks out to see other horses (he is a horse) running free in the plains. he then decides to escape from LA, leaving behind his life that, to others, seemed so great and that he seemed so happy in.

i fully connect this to hangmans character, him having the pressure of the championship on his shoulders and needing to escape, to be with people who make him happy. (this is something that is said outright in the latest BTE episode).

several songs also show hangman feeling a lot of remorse of how he treated his friends during his title reign. this lyric from "worried, unhappy, lonesome and sorry" illustrates this perfectly:

"I turned off a love that was mine. And the misery that followed was my fault completely"

i think this perfectly shows how him drifting away from the dark order during his title reign effected him. he started neglecting and pushing the dark order away, and he places that and the consequences that followed completely on himself. this could also be seen as him thinking back at his fallout with the bucks, saying that he grew coldhearted and distant towards them and that everything that happened afterwards was his fault.

so, summary:

while this is not a complete analysis by any means (there are a lot of songs i have skipped), i think it's clear the see the core message hangman is wanting to show us. he wants reconciliation with his friends, both the dark order and the elite, after all the misery and shit they have gone through (which he blames on himself), and wanting the escape how he was living his life when he was champ (unhappy, lonely) and wants to get a new start, connected to "the good old days".

[lilmisswhyso]

so... has anybody given thought to parallels/thematic overlap between farewell wanderlust and the old witch sleep and the good man grace? because i started entertaining the idea of OWS’s hollow folk being the “faceless things that sleep with me at night” in FW, and i now i’m going 👀👀 over a ton of other lyrical connections:

“I’m the tales that the guests will applaud and believe.” / “Cause when I stand, oh, those folks will run, and tell their tales of what I’ve become.”

“The hollow folk come, pour me wine by my bed, and their dead hollers hum at the things that I’ve said.” / “When you lie there awake, every night love I soar.” / “Like rubbing wine stains into rugs, it’s my curse to try and make it right, but by trying make it worse.” / “Adieu to all the faceless things that sleep with me at night.”

“I’m all yours, you’re all mine. Let’s dance together, you and I.” / “Take up arms, take my hand, let us waltz for the dead.” 

“I’m lifting my glass to that last good man grace who has left me, he’s left me at last.” / “Our gods have abandoned us, left us instead.”

“‘You’re better than this,’ he says as a hand slaps my face.” / “I promise you there’s more. More to come, more to reach for, more to hurl at the door.”

“Cause I’ve been here so many times before, don’t you think I look pretty curled up on this bathroom floor?” / “He’s down, he’s dead, now take a good long look at what you’ve done to me.”

...and of course, all the general references to drinking:

“The hollow folk come, pour me wine by my bed.” / “Somehow now I’m drinking, and I’m lifting my glass...” / “The hollow folk pour me another shard full of glass, and I toast to their talents...” / “You look like I need a drink, he winks as he slips from my grasp to the bar.” / “We’d hate to see your mascara drip into your pint.” / “She waved to the bar and slipped into the night.” 

i just! find this all Very interesting! and will probably be trying to analyze the hell out of all of this over the next few days sdfsdfs

[multifandomterrors]

The Orpheum Theory

This little essay is inspired by my own post and the additions made by sunsetnerve and norakeinwitz. Thanks for your additions to my little theory I loved reading them.

Now, I understand that at the end of the day, this is a kids show. It’s made for kids. However, the demographic didn’t really end up what they thought it was going to be. So this is just a theory I came up with because I think like a college student, so I analyze like a college student. At the end of the day, it’s a theory. Could be a reach for a kids show, but it’s a thematically sound theory when analyzed like a regular piece of art.

Julie and the Phantoms is full of hidden symbolism and many different motifs. The motif we will be discussing today is: The Orpheum Theater.

As we know, the Orpheum is a huge component of the show and the big climax revolves around the Phantoms being able to play “the show they never got to play.” At first glance, it’s just a theater where musicians play. Well, your friendly neighborhood creative writing major is here to show you otherwise.

First, let’s talk about motifs and symbols for those who are unaware of the difference.

Symbols - signify an idea or emotion e.g. red stands for blood

Motifs - a recurring element or idea that repeats throughout a piece of work e.g. stairs in Bong Joon Ho’s Parasite.

A motif is a symbol, but a symbol is not necessarily a motif.

The biggest motif present in JATP is the use of butterflies but that’s a different discussion for a different post.

Another motif that may go unnoticed is the Orpheum Theater.

This venue is mentioned multiple times throughout the season and is the climax of the show. Let’s talk symbolism.

If it were any other theater, I would’ve just went “Nah they just want to play the show of course, it’s their dream.” However, what stuck with me was how the Orpheum is presented in JATP. (It looks nothing like the actual Orpheum Theater in LA by the way).

The theater is tiny. It looks like it could have a capacity of 50 people. 75 if we’re being generous. This begs the question, why this Orpheum? Why not the Roxy? The Dolby Theater? The Greek? Why specifically this tiny venue? Why not aim for a larger theater?

Next, we have to look at its name. Orpheum. Does it look familiar?

Orpheum means “House of Orpheus.” As in the Orpheus of Orpheus and Eurydice. For those of you who are not into Greek mythology and stories or if you just haven’t heard of the musical, Hadestown, let me give you a (very) brief rundown of the story.

Orpheus is a musician who is in love with Eurydice. Eurydice dies a tragic death and finds her way to the Underworld to be with Hades, god of the dead. Orpheus, understandably, is heartbroken by this. So he finds a way to travel to find Eurydice and Hades. He strikes a deal with Hades. If he could lead Eurydice out of the Underworld, she’ll live again. The catch? Orpheus cannot turn around. He just has to trust that she’s following him. In the end, Orpheus doubts himself at the last second (like literally “maybe a few feet away from the exit” last second) and turns around. Eurydice was actually following him the whole time, but he failed. She stays dead.

Now let’s discuss parallels.

Julie = Orpheus

talented musician

in love with a person who died tragically

desperate to save them

Luke = Eurydice

dead

trapped by a person who controls the dead

Caleb = Hades

controls the dead

Caleb owns the souls of the people in the Hollywood Ghost Club

Hades is the god of the dead

therefore, Hollywood Ghost Club = Underworld

Now this is where I explain how this parallel and motif play into the show with my own original theory and the modified theories due to the additions of sunsetnerve and norakeinwitz. Again, thanks for reblogging with them!

Theory 1

We’re aware of the parallels. We’re aware of the original story and how season 1 played out. Originally, I felt as if this motif would play out further into the show. I felt as if this were the foundation of a bigger fight between JATP and Caleb. Eventually, Julie would have to try and save Luke from the HGC and Caleb and ultimately fail (because I love angst but I will throw in some “kids show” magic and say that Luke is fine in the end). But let’s go with a happier ending.

Theory 2

This was brought to my attention by sunsetnerve. In her reblog, the Orpheum theory made its run through the first season only. This also makes sense, taking into account the scene with You Got Nothing to Lose. This is when Caleb takes hold of Luke and the other Phantoms. Julie brings them back (somehow) for Stand Tall. Here is where JATP will diverge from the original Greek story. Orpheus fails. Julie succeeds. If you’re an Harry Potter fan, think of it like that old Tumblr post that describes how Harry and his friends were parallels of James and his friends, only they were better and they learned from the past. Julie is Orpheus, the difference is that she knows better. Now we introduce the lyrical genius of the songwriters.

Let’s take another look at the Orpheus and Eurydice summary. In order to save Eurydice, Orpheus cannot turn around.

With that in mind, let’s take a look at the lyrics to Stand Tall.

“Cause everything is rushing in fast

Keep on going, never look back.”

Julie sings a line about not turning around. Once again, Julie is Orpheus, she just knows better.

She thinks she can help free them from Caleb. Julie already thinks that she’s lost the Phantoms. Orpheus thinks he can help free Eurydice from Hades. He refuses to believe he’s lost her. Julie is at peace, Orpheus is not.

Julie performs at the Orpheum even though she thinks it’s too late. She doesn’t hesitate. And when she was tested and she doubted, she did not let it overtake her. Orpheus was tested and he was consumed by the paranoia.

Julie kept going. She didn’t turn around.

Orpheus stopped. He turned around.

The result? Julie saves the Phantoms from Caleb. Orpheus loses Eurydice to Hades.

Julie wins.

Theory 3

This was presented to me by norakeinwitz who noticed the Orpheus connection too. They added on to both mine and sunsetnerve’s points. Except they played more towards the idea that despite the fact Julie knows better, Julie is still Orpheus. She can’t help it.

Julie performs. She doesn’t stop. She erases her doubt. The Phantoms perform at the Orpheum.

Julie doesn’t turn around then. She turns around later.

At the end of the day, Julie is still Orpheus.

She goes back to the studio anyway. She turns around to look at them one more time.

Now here are my thoughts about this.

Julie turns around, but not for the same reasons as Orpheus.

Orpheus let doubt into his mind. All he had to do was trust that Eurydice was following him. He was tested, he panicked, he looked back. He turned around before the tunnel ended because he was afraid that she was gone.

Julie erased her doubt. She didn’t let it in. She pressed forward even with the idea that she’s never seeing them again. She was tested, she panicked, she didn’t look back…yet. She looked back after she left the Orpheum and went straight to the studio instead of going straight to bed. She turned around after the tunnel ended because she made peace with the fact that they were gone.

Orpheus turned around because he was clinging to fear. Julie turned around because she let go of fear.

She made peace with death. As a result, she saved the Phantoms.

Orpheus was angered by death. As a result, he lost Eurydice.

Julie is Orpheus, but Orpheus is not Julie.

They follow the same path, but Julie made it to the end.

[7spaceace7]

Secrets (A Donatello x Reader)

This is incredibly self-indulgent and was really just a fic for me to obsess over tesla coils, but my girlfriend convinced me to post it- so here it is! It got kind of long too, but I hope you enjoy! 

Word Count: 3236

Reader is given feminine terms in this one

Mild cursing (thank you Raph)

Absolute fluff attack, the sweetness will rot your teeth

Singing was your greatest passion. From a young age, you had been roped into music, the emotions it could represent with just a few notes and some relatable lyrics. It was happiness, it was sadness, it was anger and excitement, and it was everything you couldn’t express well enough with just words. Being a writer, sometimes that would get frustrating, but music helped you overcome the most challenging spots in a new piece or story. This is why you would constantly have earbuds in as you sang along to every song you’d memorized on your Spotify shuffle. 

And Donnie noticed this. Every time you would enter the turtles’ lair, he would see you unplug and pack-up your headphones. Hell, he was even able to detect your singing from the sounds of the sewer tunnels echoing with every step you took closer. He’d hear you talk about the music or soundtracks of your favorite games and movies, analyzing what every slight twinge or reprise would allude to. And he loved every part of it. He loved getting to see those moments where music was all you could focus on. Your heart rate rose exponentially in anticipation and excitement. Your eyes would screw shut while you broke into a grin. Your hands would mimic motions to the beat as you played on invisible drums, or strummed a nonexistent guitar. 

It was adorable to him, to say the least. But he never told you so. He never said a word, in case this might scare you off for coming across as “creepy” or weird. He knew most people probably didn’t pay this close attention to little things like that, but then again, he also knew that most people weren’t madly in love with you. 

Which Donatello was. 

He couldn’t tell you, because once he started rambling about you, he wasn’t sure he’d be able to stop. And if he didn’t stop, then he’d run the 89.07% chance risk of telling you how he’d been in love with you since the day they met you. That was way too high for him to be comfortable. No, he couldn’t tell you, no matter how badly he wanted you to know.

“Okay, so what if you just show ‘er you’re interested instead?” Raph asked, half paying attention to his brother’s predicament, half pounding the punching bag before him into the ground. Leo was in the dojo meditating, and Mikey was playing video games in the living room, which left the two middle brothers to their own devices. For Donnie, this was literally. His three-fingered hands fiddled with his latest electrical circuit. It was bound for sending the right amount of voltage into his inventions without needing four power strips and a generator all on their own. Unfortunately, he was too distracted to actually delve into its components, and settled for breaking and piecing it back together again.

“Show her? How would I do that?” Donnie’s voice trembled at the thought.

“I dunno, you’re the genius here,” Raph huffed, “There’s gotta be somethin’ in this place that you think she’d find cool. She loves music, right?”

“Yeah, like a lot, she even-”

“Rhetorical question, Don, heard the rant plenty,” His brother cut him off. Pausing his violent onslaught of the dummy, he turned to face him. “You’re nervous ‘cause you ain’t ever done somethin’ for a pretty girl before, I get it. So do somethin’ you know you’re good at. That’ll take the nerves off, your plan works, and then I won’ have to listen to you babbling about whatever new fuckin’ thing she did today. Win win.”

The younger turtle paused. “That was...actually pretty sound advice, thank you, Raph.”

“Anytime,” Raph nodded, a smug smile tugging at his lips from being able to help. Problem was, now he was invested. He’d listened to his brother’s rants and rambles and failed plans of possibly confessing for weeks now, what was gonna happen once he finally did it? Raph plopped onto one of Donnie’s bean bag chairs. He didn’t bother to pick up the training dummy. “So what ya gonna do, smart guy?”

Donnie blinked a few times, glasses twitching on his nose as he pushed them up. He didn’t know it, but you coined this his “brainstorming face”. He fiddled with the circuits once again.

“Uh...I’m not sure,” His tongue went dry. A million ideas fly through his brain each minute, and this decides to be the time that he can’t think of a single one good enough. Figures. “I could build her something? Maybe a new stereo, or upgrade the one she has.”

Raph made a noise of disapproval. “You can do better, any old fix-it guy could do that.”

“Fair. Maybe I could- ow!”

A short buzz of the air cut him off as his fiddling paid off. To the world’s great irony, a light bulb several inches away lit up.

“You good?”

“Yeah, I’m good, I…” Donnie trailed off. The purple-clad turtle’s eyes widened as he registered what happened. “I’m better than good, I just had an epiphany!”

“Epipha-what?”

“An epiphany, sudden realization, an idea!” Donnie flicked his goggles back down, enhancing his vision with the magnifier on it. Wires were tugged in and out, and a transmitter was displaced. With a snort of triumph, he raised it to the air for his brother to see. “This is the answer!” 

“A tiny board thing. Just what she’s always wanted,” Raph rolled his eyes, but Donnie was prepared for this.

“Not just a tiny board, a tiny board with this!-” With great haste, Donnie was next to Raph, holding the board out properly. “My side-side project, this little thing, look at the coil here, this is it! This is a tesla coil, capable of transmitting thousands and thousands of volts of energy surging through the air, powering anything within its radius, which is perfect and exactly why I needed to reconfigure it to power my lab and this one new machine I’m working on, but that’s not why this is the perfect idea!”

“Wow, please continue, professor, I’m dyin’ to know.”

“Glad you asked! Watch this!” One aux cord, T-Phone connection, and light-dimming later, the lab went dark in anticipation. And suddenly, with the press of a play button on Donnie’s shuffle, music started to fill the air. But it wasn’t coming from his phone. It was coming from the coils, surging and creating not only electric energy that was visible to the human eye as it sparked, but music. Sound. The beats and notes of the song playing sprouted out in the form of electricity.

Raph’s green eyes became transfixed on the sparks flying out. “Holy shit.”

“Holy shit is right!” Came the squeals of utter nerding out, “This is only a tabletop version of an SGTC circuit, my own type of it anyway based on Tesla’s original designs, but if I reworked it, made it bigger, made it lifelike and maybe four or five of them, I could create the most advanced musical performance this city has ever seen!”

“I’m gonna pretend I know everything you just said because clearly this is your nerd thing,” Raph started, utterly confused. Even still, a reassuring smile framed his features. “But this looks pretty damn cool. This right here? Exactly what ‘m sayin’, Don.  This is you.”

“Do you think she’ll like it...?” Donnie asked in a hopeful voice. He wasn’t just asking about the invention. 

“Course she will.”

~x~

A couple weeks had passed since that fateful conversation with Raph. He’d been in and out of the lab since then, but between patrols and the mandatory bathroom breaks, there was hardly a time he wasn’t working on his great new project. You weren’t even allowed to go into the lab, per his request, for all his time there.

However, he always made sure to make at least one movie whenever you’d come hang out at the lair from work.

Finally, one Friday night, the set up was complete. Pride swelled in Donnie’s chest as he looked at his creation: six symmetrically placed tesla coils sprung up from the ground and walls all around his lab space. The coilings wrapped around metal frames, spiraling into a beautiful arrangement of engineering, if he did say so himself. Mikey said it looked like the lasers out of a DC comic, which was also not a bad thing to be. He just hoped that you would like it. All of it was for you, of course, but over the weeks that he’d been preparing it, he found more beauty in the music of tesla coils than he ever had appreciated before. 

Donnie thought he might thank you for that, if he could get his nerves around it.

God, he was so nervous. Anxiety rushed through his body like the electric pulses he was perfecting. They were already done, but it was all he could do to distract himself while waiting for you to arrive. Maybe the frequencies weren’t in the right key. What if they sounded better this way? Or maybe the firing power wasn’t enough? Trajectory looked alright, maybe it just-

“Donnie?”

“Gh! Y/N, hey!” Stammered the surprised terrapin after knocking his head against the top of a coil. His goggles were on the setting of night-vision, but that didn’t account for night-spatial-awareness, it seemed.

“I got your text to come,” You tried to smile at him, but the dark laboratory proved to make that difficult. “How come it’s so dark in here?”

“Uh, well, that’s p-part of the surprise! Eheh. Gimme just a second-”

You waited patiently outside of his lab, vision still applicable, but grew concerned the more strange noises and clangs you heard coming from inside. This was definitely a whole new level of “Donnie Surprises” just by how nervous he seemed about it.

You yelped when his hand grabbed your arm and dragged you back inside the darkness.

“Okay, uh,” He started, before clapping his hands together for the lights to switch back on, “This is what I wanted to show you.”

Your gaze spun all around the lab. After adjusting to the light, you could clearly see giant mechanism after mechanism placed strategically around in a dome-like setup. Coils that protruded like round-edged spikes circled you both, and in the center was a metal cage. 

“Oh my god…” You almost whispered. A large grin broke out onto your face as you stared in quiet marvel at the scene. His plan was working, and Donnie lit up with an outstretched arm in presentation.

“These bad boys are called tesla coils-”

“Tesla coils!” You squealed in imperfect unison to what you assumed was the start of an explanation. “You made tesla coils, Donnie, holy shit!”

“You’ve heard of them?!” Donnie exclaimed, eyes widening behind his glasses.

“YES!” Your hands began to wave around excitedly, “Oh my god I used to be OBSESSED with these things! I heard about when I was a kid from that old movie, oh what was it, it was like the apprentice’s-”

“Sorcerer’s Apprentice!”

“THAT! Yes!” 

“I haven’t seen that movie in years!”

“Me neither! All I remember is that Hiccup’s voice actor totally nerded out and programmed his giant tesla coils to play music for the girl he wanted to impress, and it was the coolest thing because these giant machines were playing music, music out of nothing but sparks of electricity at different frequencies, which to be honest probably would have caused more of an energy problem than the movie suggested because goddamn do they take up a lot of power, but I was like six and didn’t care!” You laughed  in an energetic burst of word association, practically bouncing on the balls of your feet.

Donnie could have kissed you then and there for that alone. 

A grin crept onto his lips as he watched you ramble on about the movie, leaving all anxious thoughts to fall from his mind. For once, someone actually understood one of his passions. Better than that, she was explaining the process to him of all people! Sure, she was intuitive enough to know he didn’t need it, he literally had just built them after all. This was just out of pure excitement. Someone in his life was talking about science and technology like they were the most fascinating things on the planet, just as the purple-masked turtle believed it was. Well, second only to the ecstatic girl in front of him. 

“-And so, I randomly remembered it again not that long ago, so I looked it up and found so many videos on YouTube about it. I kid you not, I listened to tesla coils and tesla coils alone for a solid week.” 

You breathed heavily, a little winded after such an intense info-dump. God, he always loved when you got excited about something. 

“This is kind of surreal,” Donnie chuckled a bit, pushing up his glasses when they tumbled down his nose, “I had no idea you’d get what these were, much less have known so much about them.” Donnie’s eyes widened at his own panicked-fueled blabbering. “N-Not that I think you’re stupid! I just-- I mean it’s not-- common? It’s more of-”

“A niche interest, yeah. No worries,” You finished for him, signaling his stuttered words hadn’t fallen on offended ears. Donnie quietly sighed in relief. Time ticked by in seconds, but even that was much too fast for this martial artist to grasp. If he could have constructed a device to pause the fabrics of time, he would have long ago, simply to relish the moments with you that meant everything to him. It wasn’t your fault your eyes captivated him more than any element he’s worked with.

“So,” You began eagerly, startling him out of his thoughts, “Are we gonna listen to some zappy poles go brrr or what?”

Donnie snorted at your juvenile word choice. “Yeah, totally. Now, ah,” He walked over toward the large cage in the center, stepped inside, then poked his head out with a dorky grin. A large, green hand stood outstretched towards you. “I think you’d better step inside my cage.”

“If you keep quoting the damn movie like this, I am going to explode from excitement, and it will be your fault!” It was a wonder how you hadn’t caught onto his plan yet, honestly. You made no sense of hesitation before grabbing his offered hand (even though your hands were small enough that they hardly matched his palm’s size), and clambered into the cage in front of him. This was a great excuse for you to be close to him without it being weird. And now, with your back brushing up against his plastron, the butterflies in his chest told him it was totally a good call.

Donatello would take this secret to his grave, however.

“Put your hands on the rail here, yep just like that,” Donnie nodded after your hands found the safeguard rail. A couple buttons tapped into a laptop later, he settled his own hands next to yours. “Let the magic begin.”

Magic would have been the understatement of the year. A coil in front of you quickly shot out its first spark. Familiar music breached the sound barrier to your ears. The one behind you both caught it instantly. Spark after spark sent back and forth between the coils, soaring through the lab like the most incredible game of electric catch.

“Whoa!” You laughed when the sparks would bounce off the cage itself, pressing closer to the turtle behind you (much to his surprise every time). Your shining e/c eyes never left the electric bolts shooting out. “This is insane!”

“Heh, glad you like it!” Donnie watched you closely that entire time, more entranced by your excitement and wonderstruck self than anything he’d created. He could power up the tesla coils anytime of day, but this was a special moment he’d never be able to recreate in a controlled environment. This was no experiment, this was real and it was happening right now. 

The only thing left to do was tell you how he felt. 

“Y/N, I have to tell you something,” He began, stepping away to give you a bit of space. His heart rate was increasing by the second. The way you turned to look at him wasn’t helping, either. 

“What is it?” You spoke softly, somehow able to be heard over the music. Donnie could hardly meet your eyes, so he took your hands in his instead.

“I...I don’t know how to say this exactly,” He started, “I’ve been trying to do it for months, going over every possible conjuncture of words, something that would be heartfelt and honest, poetic even? But the truth is, words aren’t my thing, th-they never have been. I’m a science guy, I take things apart and put them back together again, I figure out what makes them work, I see life as a million tiny parts to analyze.”

He paused his quickened speech to take a breath. Your hands squeezed his larger ones as an offer to continue.

“And so, I’m...bad at feelings. I see it all as chemicals and components used by the brain to create action and reaction. But now I’m not so sure if that’s all they are, and really the only thing I am sure about is that it’s because of you that I’m questioning everything I ever thought I knew. Maybe, maybe life is more than atoms and chemicals, and instead it’s about..moments. Moments like this. Moments that...that I..that I really want to keep forever and play over and over again.”

“Donnie…” You spoke. This time he squeezed your hands.

“I know I’m rambling and I should really get to the point, so what I’m trying to say is,” He took another breath, steady this time. His gaze met yours again. “I want to live these moments with you every day. You’re special to me. You’re part of our family, but this is more than that, this feeling is-”

“Love.” You finished for him. Both of your eyes widened as you realized the other felt how you each did.  

Donatello nodded slowly, hesitant to be so certain, but knowing it was true. There were no more words to be exchanged after that, only actions, only movements so soft and gentle that the large terrapin was certain he’d break if they could fit in his hands. Your hands left his and instead reached up to grab the long ends of his mask, and tugged gently for him to reach you. He leaned down without a thought. A three-fingered hand found your waist this time. 

You kissed. Soft, human lips connected to his slightly chapped reptilian ones. The turtle had waited for this moment since he realized the attraction he felt towards you was not just powerful chemical reactions, but true feelings. It wasn’t biology, it was chance and fate and one-in-a-million all at once. As the sparks continued to (literally) fly, Donnie let his eyes close. This was the present. He was here, he was holding a great new adventure in his hands, and there was a brilliant future just around the corner. 

The song may have finished, but this is what would last forever. 

[btsandvmin]

Ask: Reply - 2021.04.16

Time to answer some more of your questions. I have a lot this time, and still a lot left I’ll have to save to another post. You are all very good at being curious and asking interesting questions. There are also some asks that are replies to old asks, and then I’ll include the link to the referenced post.

This time the topics will be:

Ask 1 - About KTH1 and expectations Ask 2 - KTH1 spoiler with “Oh lady” Ask 3 - Vminies getting superiority complex Ask 4 - Not dismissing the bond between Vmin and the other boys Ask 5 - Other people’s words can influence your thoughts Ask 6 - Vmin not sharing rooms in Bon Voyage Malta Ask 7 - Has being a Vmin shipper always been so overwhelming with all the content? Ask 8 - “Just a friend” interview Ask 9 - The garnet necklace Ask 10 - Vmin in CMs Ask 11 - Taehyung uncomfortable about shipping/tae*kook? Ask 12 - What did Jimin write on his shirt in Run ep. 53? Ask 13 - Gina Maeng ask follow up Ask 14 - Vmin’s love is beautiful (and so much nice praise omg)

Today’s post is a long one... Enjoy!

Ask 1 - About KTH1 and expectations

Ok, so I did write a shit post about this... (I mean… This is literally all Vmin’s songs so far ), but I still think your questions are worth a proper answer.

Honestly I think speculating about KTH1 is kind of hard, and as seen in the shit post I am quite torn with my expectations... In general I am the type who doesn’t like to expect too much in fear of being disappointed. I rather be pleasantly surprised. That being said Vmin does have a track record of getting involved in each other’s songs. I mean a lot is just speculation of course, but we do have confirmed cases as well, enough to not be too surprised if they would keep it up and do something for Tae’s solo album as well. (Tae saying his mixtape would be named Jimin back in 2016 still haunts me.)

On the other hand, they have already given us a lot of collabs. Adding more would feel more like a statement, at least if it would be only Jimin out of the members on that album. The thing is that if Vmin would have something “real” or at least if they are a bit careful with how they come across... I am not sure they would do something too “obvious”. But where such a line would be drawn is impossible to know. I mean clearly they managed to write and sing Friends and it worked fine, even if they did get more attention as a ship.

We also know Tae has been quite loud about Jimin in ways that single him out, so maybe they would really dare push the boundaries as far as actually including Jimin in the album somehow. It’s also very possible there could be other members, and honestly we probably shouldn’t hyper focus too much on it and that it has to mean something no matter if anyone is on it or not.

I think one of the rappers being on it is probably more likely out of the members, but it seems Tae has shown an interest in collabs with people outside of BTS, so that’s kind of what I am expecting the most. No matter who in the group is on it I am sure fans will make a big deal out of it, and maybe Tae would rather have his own thing for his first album. I really don’t know how his thoughts would go.

But again, looking at how Tae and Jimin has talked about working together, and have had moments like Tae promising Jimin a song or Tae saying they will work together again... It’s definitely not impossible to get another Vmin song. I do feel it’s more likely for any connections to be vague and not instantly noticeable though (at least not anything romantic looking because we know what happened to the Christmas song). Especially considering how they have only recently revealed things like 4 clock’s inspiration more openly and had Friends followed by Sweet Night. My main stance for any possible real ship is still that they have reason to be careful, and yet another Vmin collab, on Taehyung’s first personal album would probably raise some eyebrows considering everything else we already have. But it could also be me over analyzing them, and maybe they just really like and want to work together. Tae for sure has after all been vocal about this preference and want to work with Jimin.

So yeah, on one hand they have a track record that is hard to ignore... But on the other I wonder if they might want to add another “point” for ARMY to look at them and their songs. I also don’t want to assume that if there are songs on there that sound romantic that they automatically will be about Jimin. There will have to be legit possible connections for me to acknowledge them.

It’s tricky. I guess we will have to wait and see. I am kind of scared both that there won’t be anything or that there will be SOMETHING. Thank you for the ask, and I hope I shed some light on my thoughts on this subject. Either way I am very excited and looking forward to an album full of Taehyung’s own songs and the stories he wants to tell.

Ask 2 - KTH1 spoiler with “Oh lady”

I am not sure it is “lady”, since it’s a bit unclear in general. He also has a part that just seems to go “do be do” and I don’t know if the lyrics are even finished or if he worked with someone else etc. We basically lack a lot of information. But even so using lady/her/she etc. in a song doesn’t have to mean it is about a specific person or that the person is a she or that it is Taehyung’s own feelings (I know he said he usually sings about things he have felt, but just saying it doesn’t always have to be). 

Of course I don’t want to downplay it and say it doesn’t mean anything, but considering their fanbase is majority women, they live in a homophobic country and he has even been denied to sing a romantic song with a man before, it’s not impossible to add that to make it more “relatable” or less “gay”. God, that sounds terrible. I don’t want to start discussions where we don’t take their words for what they are, so I hope you might understand my point of view. That being said of course it could just as easily be to or about a specific woman in his life that we don’t know about. Or as you say, he isn’t actually in love but is simply writing love songs that could be inspired by non-romantic relationships or movies etc. as was the case for his inspiration for Winter Bear.

Tae also used “she” in Winter Bear, and that seems a bit forgotten. Or people try to say it has to be about his grandmother... Which we obviously don’t know, it’s just the woman people jump to since he used “she” and many people don’t like the idea of him dating a woman or writing about a woman we don’t know. Either way I think we need to remember that anything is possible and we don’t know them personally and how they think or why they choose to do what they do.

I think we need to remember that there is always going to be the possibility that ships aren’t real, that the romantic songs aren’t about Jimin and that either one of them could be in a relationship with someone else (all genders included).

Ask 3 - Vminies getting superiority complex

Hello! I want to address something that has been bothering me for a while now. I have been seeing some vminnies have a superiority complex just bcoz they ship vmin. Its very rampant among new vminnies and twt vminnies. I get that we all feel validated and happy when out OTP claim to be soulmates and bff. I feel that way too. But people have to remember that vmin are real people and their relationship is dynamic. Like they did grow from bff who used to tease e/o and fight alot to soulmates who are gentle and caring. Who is to say that one day they wont drift apart (i hope not and dont think thats gonna happen but for argument sake) so there is no reason to feel superior or look down on other shippers. 

If people think vminnies are superior bcoz they are not toxic they probably know they are lying. Lbr i have seen my share of toxic vminnies though may be a lesser number but they are there and its not the ship but its that particular person who is at fault. While i agree that some ship theories cultivate hate and toxicity there may be people among those ships who are just as sane and good as we claim to be. I just wanted to address this bcoz seeing some vminnies on twt saying locals thinking vmin were tgt after coway add is a validation kind of triggered me. I m sure there would have been similar responses to any other ship bcoz they all have been tgt for a decade and are very comfortable with e/o. I just wanted to talk to someone about this and i know you have discussed similar topics in the past. So yeah this was very long.

First of all, on request I won’t show your name, but thank you for sending me this and letting me know who you are. It’s always nice to know who is behind the question. But that being said I don’t mind people asking on anon, I totally get it being a lot easier to ask or question things when you don’t have to reveal yourself. Either way I am just glad to get interesting and important topics and I do think the things you bring up are worth talking about.

As you say, there is this thing when people start to feel and act superior for various reasons, and I too have seen some Vminies do this. Getting a lot of moments is sure nice. But honestly, just imagine if another ship came and mocked Vmin or gloated every time they got more moments. It has surely happened too, and I am sure it doesn’t feel very nice when on the negative end. Just be a decent human, ship moments will always vary and it’s great to be happy about getting moments, but there is no need to compare or look down on other ships. I say it again, shipping is not a competition, just enjoy your own ship and let others enjoy theirs.

As for feelings superior based on group behavior I think we really need to stop looking at groups and start looking at individuals, both when it comes to groups we are part of and groups we consider “bad”. I have said it many times, but individuals of other groups we don’t agree with won’t all be bad, or all stupid or young etc. We might want to tell ourselves they are worse, but it really doesn’t change much. 

Being “less bad” it not a merit and it shouldn’t be a competition. We all have our own selves to answer to and we should judge other people based on their actions and not based on what group they might belong to.

I think size and the toxicity of a narrative can lead to more people in certain groups behaving in toxic ways... But I think any person could happen to fall into these behaviors if not careful and aware. Often the change is gradual too, or you feel attacked by the other “rival group” and thus feel it’s justified to attack back, and so it escalates.

Vminies are at the moment as a group smaller, and thus have less “bad apples”. We likely also have a narrative for Vmin that doesn’t require as toxic mindsets, for example extreme jealousy or Vmin being forced to hide. But there for sure are still toxic Vminies, and there are also a lot of non-toxic shippers in all groups. Usually the louder ones are also the worst ones while the chill and nice will remain in their own lane and ship more peacefully. But being part of a smaller group doesn’t make you superior, your actions is what is important.

As for small moments getting noticed or other types of “validation” for your ship, of course it’s going to feel nice. However, what people see and think of any relationship in BTS is still just an outsider view and literally has no meaning for their actual relationship beyond it being a cute moment. That’s why size and popularity also doesn’t matter as any kind of “proof”. Interpretation will always just be interpretation, good or bad, if you like it or not.

Sadly I think we will get more and more toxic behavior from more ships as the fandom grows and as some things get more normalized within those ships’ communities. It’s about certain behaviors growing into a community culture... The more toxicity that is allowed the more others will follow. That’s why bringing up the problems is important, but trying to do so without shunning people so that they don’t go and create their own space where everyone else is the enemy. After all, being open and welcoming and understanding is much more likely to make someone listen and even change their mind than by attacking them.

I answer for my own actions. So does every person. I don’t want to be judged for everything every Vminie or ARMY or Multi K-pop fan etc. has done. Generalization is a huge problem in general, not just in fandoms or ship wars. I do try to be a positive influence, to not judge too harshly and to remember that being hostile won’t help any situation. But that’s about it. I am glad you brought up this topic, because talking about it is important, but sadly I don’t think there is a lot that can be done about it. Just try to be nice and open minded.

Thank you for the ask, I hope you all understood what I wanted to say.

Ask 4 - Not dismissing the bond between Vmin and the other boys

Thank you. I really see no need for it. It’s clear as day that they all love each other, and even if one pair would happen to be romantic instead of platonic that won’t change. We don’t have to compare and we definitely don’t have to downplay the moments they share with each other. All shippers should at the very least accept the the things they do and say as mostly genuine. I trust BTS and what they show us, it’s that easy.

I know some also get influenced by toxic fans, but we really need to remember that no narratives by fans matter when it comes to reality and what bonds BTS share with each other. They are all great people and seem to have such love and respect for each other I frankly don’t understand how you can be a fan if you think any of it is played up to the point some claim.

Likely no ship in BTS is real, but if any is, to me I am sure the ones involved would be happy and supported by the rest of the members. That’s why it doesn’t really matter what ship would be real or not real as long as they are happy. We shouldn’t let our own views and sometimes want or hopes affect the way be judge their reality. This applies for things outside shipping as well.

Thank you for your kind words. :)

Ask 5 - Other people’s words can influence your thoughts

Indeed. The brain is a powerful thing. This is very obvious if you are a multi-shipper or a general fan, but BTS truly has a lot of questionable moments between all kinds of pairs. Focus is a interesting thing. If you like something you will notice it more, and you will also remember it more while you forget other moments. Likewise if something is “negative” like a rival ship you are likely to notice them more as well. This happens even if you just watch the general content and get your own bias. Imagine then how it might influence you when others keep repeating either your happy interpretations or things you worry about? You’ll get it stuck in your head and remember it more than other things.

Like isn’t it funny how we might gush about Vmin sharing beds, or worry about ji/kook or tae/kook cuddling while hope/kook literally sleep wrapped around each other in both Bon Voyage 3 and 4? Sometimes it’s all about perspective.

By now we need to realize that fan perspective will influence us a lot. And in particular if a lot of people say it or if it is presented in a way that makes it sound logical and intelligent. Words have power. 

I still think using “Vmin is dead” or spreading worry often in itself leads to people thinking it and it being somehow accepted as fact. In similar fashion getting to hear about certain ships or certain narratives will make us notice things in relation to that. My own words and posts too will have influence on some people that read them. That’s why I try to be so careful, and why I try to avoid using strong words or claims that might cement themselves in someone’s mind. (I’ll actually talk more about the power of language in my big analysis as well)

Thank you for your input, it’s definitely an interesting thing to consider and another aspect of why shipping mentality is so complicated. 

Ask 6 - Vmin not sharing rooms in Bon Voyage Malta

Hi and yes, I have answered this before HERE, but it’s ok. I know it’s not easy finding old topics amongst my collection posts.

Collection of asks - BTSandVMIN Collection of asks 2 - BTSandVMIN Collection of asks 3 - BTSandVMIN

In short I think Vmin wanted to share rooms but that Taehyung got fooled when Jimin stopped him from checking the upper room. Because it seemed like Jimin stopped him from walking into that room by saying he couldn’t peak Tae probably assumed it wasn’t Jimin’s room and that when Jimin said it was his room he was joking (his face was definitely something). So yeah, I think he just got fooled by Jimin’s statement about not being allowed to look inside the room before picking. There are other interesting things about this whole moment, but the one thing we should take away from it is how it is one out of now many examples that seem to show that Vmin have a preference to share rooms/beds. Thank you for the ask. :)

Ask 7 - Has being a Vmin shipper always been so overwhelming with all the content?

I wouldn’t say it’s something recent. I say it often, but we really do get very intense periods from time to time with many of the ships. For example in February 2017 with ISAC, fan signs and everything else we got a lot of Vmin too. I remember being overwhelmed myself, and that was coming out of BST era Vmin. We got many moments every day and that’s just one specific period I can remember. 

 Over the years sometimes we do get these very intense days or weeks with a lot of moments at once. Usually I get asks like “do you think something is up with Vmin lately” or “wow I can’t believe how much Vmin we have gotten lately” but really, it’s hard to tell, because it really does happen from time to time. I also still say we always get Vmin moments regularly as long as we get BTS content, but sometimes a bit more and sometimes less. I am sure there will be more times when we also get “Vmin is dead“ and worried people because we get less moments than they expect. It just happens, up and down and around it goes.

As for what ships are big I will definitely say Ji/kook and Tae/kook are the biggest, but that all BTS ships are big by now. Meaning as soon as we do get moments it will be seen online. Especially if you follow people who talk about it of course. I also think what platform you are on can result in some ships being seen more than others. For example I know ji/kook is by far the biggest BTS ship here on Tumblr while Youtube seems to have more tae/kookers.

Thank you for the ask. Let’s hope Vmin keeps overwhelming us. (But let’s not start to worry if they don’t) ;)

Ask 8 - “Just a friend” interview

Ah yes, I have a bit of a soft spot for this interview myself. I am not sure, but I think it might be from 2017 (since Tae wrote a birthday letter to Jimin in 2016), or at least that’s when I found it and saved it down. I haven’t actually tracked the original source. You can find the translation in the link shared HERE, credits to @95z​.

Seeing this close after the chaos of Let’s BTS and other letter confessions it really does seem very cringe for them to express sincere thoughts in these more formal ways. I can’t blame them. 

I do think this interview is yet another example of how much Vmin has tried to adapt to each other, learn and be more open with expressing how they feel. They literally inspire and learn from each other in how to express themselves. Isn’t it completely endearing? 

I also love how they get each other to feel strong emotions and how they are there for each other when in need. On a slightly more analytical note I also can’t help but note the “just a friend” vs “soulmate” descriptions and how they seem to have a hard time putting it into proper words. We already know this of course, but yeah... They really don’t have an easy time describing their relationship.

Thank you so much for sharing this moment. I was going to talk about it in my big analysis anyways, but honestly I can’t save everything for it, and you mentioned it so who am I to keep it to myself.

Ask 9 - The garnet necklace

Oh yeah, I know that JK wore it once and that the talk was that a fan gave it to all of maknae line. Not much was ever confirmed from what I know, but regardless it doesn’t change why I think it’s a Vmin/soulmate necklace and why I see it as special.

Here is the thing, when I use “Vmin thing” it really doesn’t have to be exclusive. To me it’s the context around it and how they have used it and even reacted to it that makes the garnet necklace something special for Vmin. In the case of the soulmate necklace Vmin wore it a lot. Almost constantly during a big part of 2017 and even a bit into 2018. They also wore it at the same time a lot. I find this very cute, and we all know “couple items” is something all fans enjoy even if it would just be a platonic relationship behind it. But if both of them wearing it was all there was, as a lot of Vmin sharing clothes (or BTS in general sharing clothes) I wouldn’t really think too much about it beyond it being cute. It could still be just a cute thing that Vmin did, but I personally see it as something beyond the normal clothes/jewelry sharing.

(At the very least you can remember Vmin did this while people thought their relationship was dead, which doesn’t make much sense to do if you hate or dislike someone.)

The things I find more noteworthy about this necklace is the fact that the fandom picked up on it and because they wore it so much and so often at the same time it was dubbed the “soulmate necklace”. Possibly knowing this Tae also brought specific attention to the necklace at two times, as if wanting to show it off. Interestingly enough, in one of these times Jimin seemed to ignore Taehyung who was bringing attention to it on purpose. For me it came across as another thing Taehyung wanted to show off and that Jimin was a bit more careful about. 

Of course I could have read it wrong, maybe Jimin just misunderstood. But even so, Tae did bring attention to it in specific relation to Jimin. You can watch the clip HERE. (BTS Tell Us What They Love About Each Other & An Update On Tony & Nate From America Hustle Life) 

The other time was in Run ep. 39, right after Vmin talked about being in school together and showing off their school uniforms. If Tae is the one to try and highlight something, I feel it likely has some meaning to him at least.

Either way the necklace is basically a symbol of Vmin’s relationship and the fact that they liked it so much and wore it together during a long period I think they liked wearing it not only because they both happened to like the design but because they both had it. If JK also had one and didn’t use it of course it could include him, but I will still say it remains significant for Vmin’s bond with each other.

As for buying a necklace together they haven’t talked about this one in particular, but Tae did mention he bought his tiger necklace with Jimin in NY, so maybe you are mixing the two things up?

Ask 10 - Vmin in CMs

Thank you for loving my blog and for the ask! :) I am not sure if you perhaps meant in a lot of BTS own photoshoots/units as well, but I’ll focus on CMs in this post since that was your direct example. I might go a bit beyond here, but I saw it as a good chance to revisit some Vmin ad moments.

I wouldn’t personally say we have gotten “way more” but I do think because of their Friends unit they got to do some more interviews together and some CM stuff too. I also think we have gotten more BTS commercials in general now, likely because it’s an income alternative to touring during the pandemic. So that obviously means more CMs, and more chances for them to be paired up. They also have gotten paired with others of course (like in the Bodyfriend CM or Baskin Robbins), but most commonly they aren’t divided in smaller groups at all.

We also have gotten Vmin paired up before, both in photoshoots and in CMs. Of course we saw some great ones in 2016 with Puma and NUGU, but I don’t think we got that much more in 2016 and before than in 2017-2019. I think what we can see is BTS having more endorsements after Covid.

Like honestly, the Puma adds are iconic. Of course the original one, but also the revisits from 2018. Puma definitely seemed to like to pair Vmin in particular. (There are so many good examples from Puma that I’m not including)

We also got a snippet in the Hyundai one, also from 2018.

Another snippet from the Coconut Chicken ad from 2017.

I mean, I don’t know if I should count the snippets at all, like from BTS x VT cosmetics in 2019, but I feel sometimes just being seen in the same frame seems to get attention as being paired up so. (I decided to not include being together when it’s at least a third member in the frame)

And guys... Have you ever watched BTS and the milk song?

What did we get so far more recently? In 2020 we had the Hyundai interview.

And the hyundai #PositiveEnergyChallenge

Fila provided a nice one, also from 2020.

Samsung gave us a snippet recently.

Coway was basically couple goals and like the best one in my own opinion (besides Puma because it is going to take a lot to beat Puma).

But other than that? I don’t think we have seen it that much, have we? I am not complaining or anything, like I am happy with what we got, but I don’t know if it’s that much. I might forget some obvious ones, but these were the ones I had top of mind. Feel free to add ads if you can think of more recent ones that I left out.

So I think we have gotten more BTS ads in general, also more where they are not all of them or single focus, and that we have seen maybe Vmin getting paired a little more after Friends. But to me there is such a small difference I can’t really say if it is anything particular to Vmin or just BTS doing more CMs.

I mean, I don’t have a sheet of who has been paired with who and how many times over the years. But either way I don’t think we should look too deeply into things like CMs or even photoshoots units. Thanks for the ask though, I hope you enjoyed this mini collection. :)

Ask 11 - Taehyung uncomfortable about shipping/tae*kook?

So this is a thought sent in after THIS ASK though it really brings up a new subject, which is that of Tae possibly being uncomfortable with shipping. As for Tae saying that to a tae/kooker in particular I think we have to remember it could very easily just have been in the moment and we can’t know why he decided to reply to that person in particular.

The Vmin post was not invasive and it wasn’t romantic. I mean, I do think Tae keeps showing again and again that if there is any person in BTS that is special to him it’s Jimin. But the difference in the posts also likely matters, but we can’t know how much. We don’t know if Tae would feel annoyed if a Vminie wrote the same thing as the tae/kooker did, and we don’t know if it was just in that moment that he got fed up with the shipping discourse in general, or if it was because it was tae/kook.

Honestly any shipper, regardless if a ship would eventually prove to be real or not, should not go and invade spaces where the boys get exposed to it. We don’t know if Taehyung would have reacted in a similar way if it happened to be another ship.

Personally I don’t think tae/kook drifted apart as a result of shipping, because honestly they still kept being pretty intimate physically and engaged in fanservice on stage etc. If they truly were uncomfortable with the idea I just don’t think they would “feed it” much at all. I think as they said in ITS they just, kind of changed and it became harder to talk. I’ve talked more about tae/kook and my views on their bond in THIS POST and a little in THIS POST as well as about BTS possible stance on shipping HERE.

I also think all of BTS has a pretty good distance from hate and fandom speculations in general. I think that because they know about shipping and partly also feed into it they probably expect crazy people to some degree as well, even if they probably don’t like it. Hetero shippers as well, or solo stans etc. have very toxic behaviors at times, but I think BTS can recognize that it is kind of “bound to happen” with their popularity, no matter what they do about it. Not saying they would like it, and they could definitely feel awkward or annoyed because of it, but it doesn’t seem to bother them too much as I think they can detach themselves from it pretty well.

I also think “fan opinions” in form of rival shipping wouldn’t really harm a hidden couple as it first would likely be a sort of “shield” and second because they have their relationships and are likely comfortable with them on their own terms. What fans think is probably secondary.

It is possible that they could get annoyed or frustrated at times, but again, if they truly felt bothered by it they probably wouldn’t do a lot of the things they do. Because I am sure they are aware to some degree that fans scrutinize their every move and ship moments. Both Tae and Jimin are some of the most physical out of the members, and also some of the members that seem to like to initiate fanservice moments... So I doubt they would have much problem and can feel secure enough in their relationship no matter what fans think.

Ask 12 - What did Jimin write on his shirt in Run ep. 53?

Hi, I guess you got curious after I talked about this episode recently in my post Ask: Reply - 2021.03.30 (Ask 8 - Going down the rabbit hole, micromoments and shipping vs believing).

I don’t know hangul, but I do know what “Jimin” looks like. On Jimin’s shirt from behind the scenes of Run ep. 53 you can see he’s written his own name “지민” Jimin followed by what looks to be “ 님 “ which is nim. So basically the text on the container in the picture says Sir Jimin.

Jimin seemed very keen on writing his name on both his own shirt and on Tae’s and even tried on JK’s. He failed of course, but he sure did try. 

Thank you for the ask, and isn’t Tae cute?

Ask 13 - Gina Maeng ask follow up

Glad you liked my reply. :) (From Ask: Reply - 2021.03.30  Ask 4 - Idols dating members of the same group). Yeah I get what you mean, talking about it openly I suppose isn’t so normal. But since it seems to be more and more fans who assume it happens to some degree maybe it’s not so strange if it starts getting more talked about as well. I’ll take it as a good sign, even if the information is nothing new in itself, being more open is going to make it easier for fans to realize it’s possible for their idols to be LGBT+ or have hidden relationships.

As for K-Population it doesn’t seem to be too well known, but it’s one of few actual examples to be found. So yeah, interesting that we know it has happened, and also that it shows what risks it could mean to get involved with a group member. I think the risk of a falling out is something a lot of shippers tend to forget. Anyways, thank you for your reply. ^_^

Ask 14 - Vmin’s love is beautiful (and so much nice praise omg)

Oh my... I am not sure I have ever been called sweetheart by anyone ever before. Thank you! You are making me blush with all the praise.  💜💜💜

But really, we can all just watch Vmin in awe and be happy they have each other and feel such immense love for each other, no matter what that love is. It’s kind of amazing. Like even if they are platonic their relationship is so wholesome and they put so much love and effort into it that it’s truly inspirational. I love when we get bombed with moments like this with a very intense period of great Vmin interactions. As you, me too never fail to feel all soft watching them together.

95z is love and what a love they share. Truly wonderful. 💜

You take care too, and really, thank you so much for this lovely message. it means a lot and is very heartwarming.

And with that sweet ask I’ll end the post. There was a lot of very different questions and I feel I could have written more about many of them, but alas I need to remember I can’t write full essays on everything or I would never get anything posted. Thank you all for reading and I hope you found my thoughts and speculations interesting. ^-^

[sendmyresignation]

In Defense of Teenagers:

Ok so. There seems to be a general consensus that Teenagers doesn’t fit on the black parade or that it ruins the trajectory of the album or that the song order of bp needs to be changed to fit the b-sides and drop Teenagers, or it should have just been a single- basically any option other than its inclusion between Sleep and Disenchanted would have been better. now, i’m not here to tell anyone that they’re wrong- i just want to offer an alternative perspective because i truly believe Teenagers is right where it belongs and that its inclusion on that album is, in my opinion, completely necessary to the album’s narrative arc. I want to focus on the way Teenagers builds into the foundation of the Concept Record, the way it bridges the gap between Sleep and Disenchanted so as not to delegitimize Disenchanted’s impact, and the fact that no other available material fits into the struggle the Patient endures at the end of the narrative (sorry this got LONG here’s a read more)

So, before we get into the meat of Teenager’s narrative significance, i wanted to briefly mention the way it makes Black Parade a more cohesive whole in relation to the material it is mimicking. Like Black Parade as an album is structured very differently from Pink Floyd’s The Wall- but it takes a lot of the same beats and recontextualizes them for a new purpose. Both records use war and relationship troubles and school and drugs to create an atmosphere that leads to disillusionment. In The Wall, this is quite literally the protagonist, Pink, building up “bricks in the wall” that isolates him from the rest of society and lead to a downward spiral into cynicism and hate. But Black Parade uses the same tools that The Wall does to say something different- things, specifically the actions you've made or the trauma you've endured, haunts you and makes your life seem insignificant in the face of what happens to you and those regrets are what causes the Patient to fall into a cycle of damnation and cynicism. This is representative of the Patient's descent through the afterlife- each new "layer" of the Patient's exploration is equivalent to a brick in The Wall's metaphor. Additionally, in this new context, this song in particular takes The Wall’s discussions of adolescence and the vice-grip control older generations attempt to force on teens and the disillusionment with the future and retells it from a new perspective- both literally in the fact the song is now more reflective of the 2000s post-9/11 and post-columbine culture, but its also literally from the perspective of the Patient as an adult. Teenagers, as a result, becomes a necessary piece of that puzzle- it is the refraction of Another Brick in the Wall repurposed to mean something new entirely- it’s no longer about kids being forced into complacency by a cruel education system from their own perspective (the children’s choir allows them to speak for themselves) but about the ways in which adults see those kids and why they decide to enact actions similar to those within The Wall. I mean even the imagery used in the song’s music video is purposely almost plagiarizing The Wall- it feeds into a separate analysis of the video and song outside the narrative as well- which i don’t have time right now to get into, its just very interesting that the band is bodily removed from their instruments at the end of the video and the teenagers in the audience have rendered them incapacitated (“they’re looking for a rockstar to kill” anyone?) it's the metaphorical tearing down of the wall from a completely different perspective. Anyway, the work Teenagers does for the narrative is it fits the album into the Concept Record Cinematic Universe- it is a piece that evokes the material it is influenced by to build off of the old to create the new- without it, the connections to The Wall would still be there, sure, but it wouldn’t be as complete- you cannot recontextualize the album without the foundation of Teenagers.

Teenagers is also, at its core, a subtle subversion of genre- using the blueprint of a specific kind of song to center the song within the timeline/narrative. In this case, the same way I Don’t Love You mimics and exaggerates the emotive and plaintive 80s rock ballad, Teenagers twists the classic rock of a bygone era to specifically call back on the stadium rock anthem.  Black Parade, on the whole, does this quite frequently- most of its songs take pre-existing genre cues and subverts them in ways that play off of the expected tapestry of a concept record to create individual sounding songs that seamlessly transition into one another yet remain entirely separate. It maintains their presence as scenes in a larger tapestry- specifically the fabric of the Black Parade being a morality play. This serves two purposes, it allows for this exaggeration of genre to become a motif within the work (see mama, cancer, house of wolves, i don’t love you, wttbp -> they all play with a different, varied song type/structure that is distinct from each other) and it plays off of existing genre-stereotypes in ways that contribute to the songs overall function. I Don’t Love You, for example, undermines the fundamental purposes of sappy power ballads- to express one of the two dualities of love songs: the cheesy unconditional “i will love you forever” types or the plaintive, melancholic end-of-relationship song by instead focusing on the complexity of a not-quite-finished relationship. The ballad then shifts from an expression of love to one of human loss- and the loss is less about the individual speaking, but moreso about what the other character has become - it’s a mourning not for the relationship, but for the person themselves, who they used to be in a way. It shifts from the one-dimensional view of what a ballad can achieve and instead infuses the anger, the resignation, the drama, the transformation- it humanizes a very stock genre full of platitudes and uses our expectations to create something more interesting. Similarly, Teenagers takes a tired genre and utilizes the working mechanisms of its typical song structure to subvert and repurpose those into commentary- its literally a stadium rock song that devolves into a chant. Looking at the loud drumbeat that resonates in your chest, the all together now as a command that lures the listener into singing along, the addition of more chorus vocals at the end like a crowd is shouting along, the screaming and the solo on after another like the song is falling apart a little bit, all of these elements build into a song literally meant to be infectious and replicated by the audience. Herein lies one of the songs many interpretations- humans can be easily influenced by the media they consume, the perspectives they are fed. What happens when the view that we have of adolescence is cloaked in mistrust and violence? This aspect of the song is less about the band reconciling teenagers being moved to committing acts of violence and more in analyzing how an audience can be persuaded into believing the erroneous view of teens as fundamentally destructive- are you not repeating the chorus? do teenagers not “scare the shit out of you”? Obviously the band doesn’t want you to believe this but it does what you to think about why this perspective is so common. It's a cultural subliminal message that is present in songs and tv and books that we simply do not question- it is a chant we cannot help but join in on. Teenagers is a replication of that process, but is clearly just subversive enough (both as a piece of genre and just as a song in general terms) that the listener knows its commentary and not itself propagating that viewpoint. Every song on Black Parade does this kind of “genre-bending” to make a point in some way or another, so it's a significant reason Teenagers fits into the albums cohesion.

But,Teenagers isn’t just important to the album in its sound- it lyrically parallels Disenchanted in a way that effectively moves on from Sleep without losing the album’s emotional momentum. Sleep, conceptually and lyrically, is a very heavy track- its influence from the Dune soundtrack’s Final Dream turn a cinematic, swelling piece of instrumentation into an oppressive blanket of noise that bears down on the listener and the lyrics are referential to the patient believing themselves to be irredeemable and monstrous. It's also inspired directly from Gerard’s vivid and violent night terrors during his stay at the paramour- including a recording of Gerard’s recollection of those dreams, that mentions being choked, seeing loved ones die, burning alive, etc. To transition directly from such a dark, personal subject into a reflective acoustic number about the narrator’s adolescence would be tonally inappropriate and almost laughable- it would stop the progression in its tracks, while also doing a disservice to Disenchanted. Having a break is necessary! And it's even more appropriate for that break to be a song about teenagers considering Disenchanted is so nostalgic. Additionally, Teenagers brings up a really interesting narrative thread about the Patient becoming disenchanted with the youth that then directly transitions into a song about him losing faith in his values and sense of self- they are directly correlated conceptually. Looking deeper, Disenchanted is a punk song. sort of. more specifically, it is the foundation of a punk song that becomes a ballad through narrative framing- it takes punk cliches (running from the cops, the crowds, the imagery of guillotining traitorous rich celebrities) and turns them wistful and sad because the Patient is looking back at something they no longer understand or identify with, it allows the narrative to illustrate how the Patient feels like their life was worthless and didn’t amount to much and they’re just another stupid punk kid who grew up and didn’t achieve anything. and you can’t get to this point from Sleep because it would weaken Disenchanted’s impact, make it seem insignificant and petulant in the face of Sleep’s heavy and grand sorrow. Lyrically, you need Teenagers to bridge the gap between the war metaphors and the visualizations of hell and the all-encompassing nature of cancer in order to redirect the focus to the Patient and limit the scope of the narrative at the end of the album. Teenagers, within the story, then functions as the Patient reflecting on the nature of youth and, in the wake of Mama’s “we all go to hell” rhetoric, comes to the conclusion that teenagers are wholly violent, easily manipulated, and unsympathetic. It's another step in the Patient removing his own agency and viewing his life as predestined at the same time it allows the “plot” to focus back on the more nostalgic and mundane aspects of the patient’s life. Doing so makes Famous Last Words so much more significant because it forces the Patient to reconcile with his past before he can move forward (whether that's living or dying its still applicable). so, Teenagers is very important to the overall “plot” of Black Parade- it is fundamentally necessary for the pieces to fit together.

Another larger aspect of Teenagers' importance is that it introduces the fate versus free will internal debate central to the ending fourth of the record. The song lays the foundation for this thematic idea by being about the fated violence of the youth and how they cannot help but to respond to their world with anger and cruelty. This realization about adolescence by the Patient leads to him perceiving his own youth as destructive and worthless and in following the themes of guilt/regret and damnation it's this violence that began his path to hell or his current state of suffering.  In that vein, Teenagers leads into the idea that your life is predetermined or that there is a destiny that we all have (in the Patient’s case its the absence of a future, or “a lifelong wait for a hospital stay”) and no matter what, you cannot fight that. While Mama gives a blanket statement about how "we all go to hell", Disenchanted centers the Patient's specific destiny by saying his whole life has led up to his illness and, looking further, there is the implication that life before that was retrospectively pointless. So, as previously mentioned, Disenchanted begins, structurally and lyrically, as a punk song- this sort of expression of youthful existence that, in any other song or under another faster instrumentation, would fit on some basement demo from 1986. But it doesn't stay that way, instead it actively subverts the genre it's cliches are lifted from- thinking specifically about “we ran from the cops” and the “roar of the crowd” that is juxtaposed with the change in structure  or theme. Namely, punk songs (speaking generally here) aren’t wistful because there isn't really a sense of legacy in punk music. There's history yes, but most songs are about the immediacy of emotion, not existential questioning. The retrospective nature and the shift into a ballad structure are elements reflective of a change in the main character brought on by the disillusionment present in teenagers from a punk kid to a dying young man looking back on the banality of youth and the hypocrisy, the trauma and the lack of agency. It's so much easier to think that nothing matters and the perspective makes it so much easier to give up.

This build from Teenagers into Disenchanted regarding the Patient's fate allows Famous Last Words to become an even stronger end because it's in direct opposition to that perspective. Famous Last Words is a song that screams fuck fate and fuck the past- the only thing that matters is moving forward. The image of the Patient keeping on whether he’s walking into the afterlife or continuing to stay alive as long as possible becomes something difficult, something he had to fight to achieve - he had to struggle to find a new understanding. That he can't be "afraid to keep living" or "going home" and that these are concrete actions, a use of free will. And that free will is very specifically defiant. Regardless of how you view the Patient's end, he makes the conscious decision to accept the present and move forward. We are not fated to die alone, nor is life worthless. Black Parade proves that the opposite is true, that we must grow to accept the value of life, and it's so much stronger having the Patient actively reject nihilism and apathy. Ultimately, Teenagers introduces the main thread of the final songs and without it, those songs would be narrative incomplete.

So, Teenagers has a valued place on the album sonically and within the narrative whole, that much is clear. But another reason that the album order of Sleep, Teenagers and Disenchanted is important is that none of the other material written for the album comes close to filling its place. In this case, I am going to be specifically talking about the b-sides since the demos are incomplete and we have no idea what the final version would have sounded like (but I would contend they don’t fit either). Beginning with the easiest song to discard from the narrative- My Way Home Is Through You has its moments in the lyrics but it's completely out of place musically- plus the tone is a little too hopeful for this point in the album which does not gel with Disenchanted’s hopelessness. It's also incongruent with the album since Disenchanted is effective as the only “punk” song on a record that plays with and explores genre and having this come before it would ruin the previously mentioned motif of each of the songs being individual and unique in form. Also, it really adds nothing to the fate vs free will theme- meaning its placement would weaken the disenchanted/flw combo ending. Moving forward, Kill All Your Friends seems to fit, considering its cynicism and nostalgia, but the bridge (“you’ll never get me alive, you’ll never take me alive, do what it takes to survive and I'm still here") doesn’t fit the Patient’s slow decent into apathy at all and contradicts Disenchanted’s loss of faith in the idea of living- it's too hopeful and centers survival and resilience in a way that makes it an ineffective substitute for Teenagers as a bridge song. And finally, Heaven Help Us is too religiously centered- it would refocus the fate vs free will discussion in the context of god/angels when that isn’t a theme in the album up to this point (hell is the grounded point of the album- the protagonist has already accepted their fate by Mama- having a reconciliation with a lack of faith or the absence of God seems completely out of left field when its just not an established part of the narrative) Black Parade is actually one of the mcr albums with the least references to god/angels in the heavenly religious sense- more centered around the human struggle against determinism: the usage of damnation is Catholic inspired but divorced from the division of hell vs heaven and is instead about guilt and worthiness and agency. The presence of angels or god or any divinity would simply weaken the narrative by expanding the album's focus outside its own limitations. Also, the Patient isn't ever a martyred figure, if anything he is purposely pathetic. Including any comparison of the Patient to Christ ("give you all the nails you need") or a saint unravels the key feature of the Patient's character: that he is insignificant. His insignificance and his struggles with his past actions make him a character who must find the strength to live through the guilt and pain to prove that everyone is worthy of life. The overarching purpose of Black Parade is emphasizing that no matter what we've done and how dirty we feel, we can move forward and either accept our afterlife or we can find value in being alive. Because of this contradiction, Heaven Help Us destroys the central theme of the entire album if it is included. With all of this in mind, it seems to me that the b-sides are their own nebulous thing- they don’t tonally fit on Black Parade (though I do think they fit together and are interconnected thematically) but any of them would break the flow since they seem angrier and gritter in a way that is noticeably absent and would be at odds with from a lot of Parade’s resignation. They also just do not complete the narrative, they are simple not as good as Teenagers at bringing all the pieces together.

If I still haven’t convinced you, a bonus reason Teenagers is a valuable memeber of the Black Parade tracklist, Ray was the only one who believed in the song- he called it genius (x) so listen to mr chemical romance himself telling you the song is Good and Important :)

anyway now you should, at the very least respect teenagers based on a couple thematic ideas expressed here, if not also understand why it’s imperative to black parade as an album, as well as the narrative itself. <3

[botwstoriesandsuch]

im loving the history lesson posts!!! what are you're thoughts on the ruins in Tabantha? based on the memory near the skywatchers and the shrine quests in the region, the stone ruins in tabantha existed about 10,000 years ago and were destroyed or vacated and left to crumble. but the stone structures contrast heavily with the wooden architecture of Rito Village? bUT if i'm remembering correctly the song lyrics go "pride of the rito/pillar to the sky" so the rito stone and tabantha itself has (1)

Ok first off, I AM SO SORRY! I read this ask months ago and I worked on it in my google docs and then I was going pure theory mode and then another person sent in another ask about ruins and I was getting all excited so basically long story short I got so caught up in making a masterlist of all the ruins that I completely forgot about this ask until now... So anon I apologize for the terrible wait but hopefully you’ll still enjoy what I have in planned. 

You’ve given me a lot to work with so I’m going to break this up into several posts based on your asks. I’m gonna post them on different days becauseeeee content management, schedules, things.....I’m lazy and also if I posted all my thoughts in one post it would be like a giant book with zero pacing so

[Today] Thoughts on the Ancient Columns and the Ruins of Tabantha

[Some time later idk when I post it I’ll shove the link here] The Effects of the Calamity on the Rito and People of Hyrule

The Relationship between Skywatcher Locations and the Cunning of Calamity Ganon

Buckled in ladies, lads, and gentlefolk? It’s time for a history lesson, Part 1 o’ Trois. So today here is

Ancient Ruins, Architectural Parallels, and the Probable Worship of the Fae

So! Let’s start with the ruins of Tabantha. Specifically, the Ancient Columns. 

Anon you’re correct in that these ruins are over 10,000 years old. We can not only gather this from the fact that their condition is the same even 100 years ago, meaning they have to be older than a century (see their crumbled state and similar moss patterns) but also from direct lines from the Creating a Champion (CaC) book itself. 

However, I’m inclined to believe (for several reasons that I’m going to get into) that these ruins have nothing to do with the “pillar in the sky” as mentioned in the Rito songs. For one, the pillar of Rito village is of an entirely different architectural style, given that it looks like the natural work of wind erosion. And for another, the existence of the Rito village pillar has to have been much younger, around 100 years old, in order to coincide with the Sheikah Shrine quest, as the Sheikah platform thingy has to correlate with the characteristics of the pillar’s shape. Ergo, ergo, ergo, the “pillar in the sky” isn’t 10,000 years old and has no correlation with the Ancient Columns.

Ok so! Back to the actual ruins themselves and what we can analyze from them. 

Circled above is every instance of ruins in the Tabantha region. Although I should specify that I’m talking about the Ancient Hylian ruins, as that is the type that is most notably scattered across this area. 

We know that all these ruins are off the same civilization because of their style and material. 

[Remember this picture for later^^]

In addition, we can also tell from ruin maps in the CaC book that these ruins are from the same Hylian civilization, as well as the important detail that these ruins were centered around the Goddess. 

Citing that other screenshot at the beginning on the Ancient Hylian Culture, these ruins were built around the same time as the Sacred Springs, so I think it’s safe to assume that these ruins had a religious purpose.  

But I can take this one step further! Up until now, all this information has been based on interpretations from the botw ruins and official info alone, but if we take into account the real life counterparts/parallels, I can prove the exact purpose to what these ruins are for!

Firstly, these ruins are obviously inspired by architecture in Ancient Greece, and other old Empires (like the Romans and Byzantines) across the Mediterranean. 

We also know that the ruins are constructed out of limestone. One, because moss is able to grow on it, so it is unlikely that it is marble. And two, we can see the actual limestone texture when seeing the broken parts of certain columns and walls. 

[and kinda quick side note here: but the existence of large limestone rich structures 10,000 years ago gives more credit to the theory that Botw takes place after a large flood, notably the events of Wind Waker. One, because limestone is a material mined near the sea, as seen with the Island of Paros and Naxos for the Ancient Greeks. And Two, this ancient sea was directly mentioned in the description for botw rock salt. And also Three, this explains the weird placement of certain structures, such as the buildings placed on suspended and isolated rocky plateaus like the ones I showed earlier by the Skywatchers. So there’s your mini theory which kinda proves that the Tanagar Canyon was probably an ocean trench at one point and it also still proves my connection of the Ancient Hylian ruins being parallels to the Ancient Greeks and all that because...ocean. Greece, peninsula, hundreds of islands, lots of quarries in Hyrule by the sea. Akkala is by the sea, there’s quarries, also the islands with mining equipment like Tingle Island. You get it by now right?]

Anyway. Greeks, Romans, polytheistic gods, temples for sacrifices, limestone, yadayadayada. Safe to assume that these Hylian ruins were of a civilization centered around a temple of some sort worshiping a powerful being, or beings, such Hylia. Hurray! Theory seems done.

BUT!

I can take it

A step FURTHER!!!

You see, I was originally gonna leave this post at that. The Ancient Columns are of an Ancient Hylian civilization 10,000 years ago that worshiped some higher powers. “Great!” I think to myself. “Time to get all my screenshots so that my ADHD followers wont die immediately” 

But but but! As I was spending an hour or so getting said screenshots, I took this picture right here and came across a revelation so bright you could have placed a light bulb over my head... 

A pretty enough capture, got a nice aerial view of the ruins, the suspended island thing in the middle of the path... nice view of Tanagar Canyon and the Ancient Columns, the sunset is all pretty and—Oh hey! The Great Fairy Fountain is there. Heh, that’s nice. You know it’s kinda weird that it’s just plopped right in the middle of all these Ancient ruin and temp—

BAadaBing, badaBoom, ladies, lads, and gentlefolk! I’m here to tell ya that these giant fae ladies were once worshiped by 10,000 year old Hylian civilizations. And not just this fairy mind you, but all four of them.

First piece of evidence? The proximity of 10,000 year old structures to every Great Fairy. Mind you, these are the most rare type of ruin in the game. 90% of the ruins are of settlements destroyed 100 years ago by the Calamity, and then the other 10% is still divide up between the Ancient Sheikah and Zonai. So I find it quite interesting that almost every case these special ruined civilizations are near a Great Fairy. [Uh, spoilers for all the Great Fairy locations btw]

First, of course, you got the Great Fairy in Tabantha. 

Then you got the one in Akkala, by the Torrin Wetlands (again, the highlights in yellow are of the canonical 10,000 year old Hylian ruins)

The Lanayru Promenade isn’t even up for debate at this point....I mean it was the parade ground for the ceremony up to the Spring of Wisdom. How much more “Ancient Hylian” can you get then that?

The only kinda iffy one is the Great Fairy in the Gerudo desert, but even THEN this fairy is by two out of the three only instances of 10,000 year old ruins in the entire desert, the third instance being the Zonai labyrinth. 

But, sure. Correlation might not equal causation. But I think the picture becomes all the more clear when you take a look at the timeline of events!

Note that no one in Hyrule really knows what the fairies are all about. Sure, you got that one researched in Tabantha that knew about one of them, and some of the elders in Kakariko had a sort of understanding that a fairy was their neighbor. However, their stance was that of wariness and caution, and they very much did not worship or give offerings to them. Dorian, for example explicitly shows suspicion towards the fairy, and thinks they might be dangerous. (Which, to be fair, is valid if you’ve ever read ANYTHING about the fae)

My point is, people don’t know what the Great Fairies are, or what their powers, motives, or *anything* really are. Sure, 100 years might have passed, but it would be pretty hard to forget something as eye catching as the fae. The people of Hyrule can remember century old white horses, cook books, treasure locations, ancient songs, and vague legends, but the majority of them don’t know about the Giant (seriously, it’s right in the name) Fairy Fountains?!

That is, of course, under the assumption that the Great Fairies existence was known 100 years ago. But what if it wasn’t?

You might be inclined to assume that the fairies lost their power because the Calamity prevented them from getting offerings 100 years ago, but in truth, there is no evidence whatsoever saying that their lack of power originated at the rise of Calamity. 

It’s entirely likely that they haven’t been sitting around for 100 years, but 10,000, or even more. It explains why no one knows anything about them, and also their proximity to the ruins. 

A beautiful spring you say? You power is directly correlated to offerings you say? 

Gee if only there was some ancient civilization that existed a long time ago, that has ties to old religious practices, temples, and polytheistic, which has parallels to the Ancient Greeks and Romans who build their civilizations centering around certain gods and offerings to said powers, and also if only these said civilizations were nearby to all of the fae oh WAIT!

Even when Link gives his offerings, the results are only that of the Great Fairy Fountain blooming, not an entire spring. Could an entire spring existed long ago, providing for the hundreds or thousands of people who worshiped the fae? Who’s to say that these old 10,000 year old civilizations gave offerings to the fae not only for the magic and all that, but for the vitality and life that they provide? Who’s to say that those earlier relief arts of warriors on chariots were of people with enhanced armour. Fairies that give you magic defense would be quit helpful for a civilization that liked to battle... the possibilities are endless....

TL;DR, the Ancient Columns, along with the other 10,000 year old Hylian structures, were constructed for religious purposes, centering around the Great Fairies, who accepted their offerings in exchange for the vitality of their springs, as well as their enchantments. 

So! That’s that. Can you believe this is just me tackling only one aspect of anon’s ask? I realize that the majority of the ask was about the Rito but...oops! That’s why I split it into parts. [When I post the other posts I’ll update the contents at the top to link to them]

A like and reblog is appreciated! I spent too long on this, including an extra week because tumblr deleted my original draft which was much longer... so if you liked it, let me know! It’d be nice to know that my time didn’t completely go to waste, :P Anyhow thanks for reading all this

[rukakikuchi]

LOONAverse timeline theory (REDUX!)

So... Yeah. This is something I’ve thought about doing for a while now. It’s been a little over a year now since I started getting into LOONA and analyzing the lore, and my views on the timeline have changed slightly.

Nothing major, but I still wanted to do an updated version of the timeline since now feels like a good point in doing so.

In the year since becoming an Orbit, I’ve used the theories of others as well as my own to get a better understanding of the story of the LOONAverse. This has led me to questioning and critiquing certain theories, and even going back and revising my previous views on the lore, and seeking out other interpretations to come to a new conclusion.

There are some theories from my old timeline analysis which I feel are outdated, since I no longer agree with certain points, and other elements which I want to bring more into question.

For those who may or may not know, I’m on the autism spectrum. And ever since I started listening to their music, LOONA has been one of my most recent special interests. I got hyperfixated on the story that was being presented, and I wanted to analyze all the pieces of the puzzle to get the bigger picture in my head.

With all that being said, let’s go ahead and get this started.

Part 1 - The [+ +] timeline

I think this is the part of the LOONAverse story we can get the clearest view on. This encompasses everything from pre-debut, starting with Heejin, all the way up to Hi High.

It was the first chapter, or the first major story arc of the LOONAverse. We were introduced to the characters of the 12 girls, the worlds they inhabited, their individual conflicts, and an established main goal: finding each other and breaking the loop, an enigmatic force that’s opposing them.

Here’s my breakdown of the timeline of events:

This isn’t a perfect charting of the timeline, since we can assume certain events overlap or run parallel with each other, or take place in a very close amount of time between each other.

Part 2 - The [X X] timeline

Just going to refer to this as the “new” timeline. I believe this is the current timeline we are in in the story, starting from “Butterfly”. This is where Go Won created a butterfly effect by going to Iceland, Haseul’s location, and changed events of the timeline.

For now, let’s assume that everything before love4eva/Let Me In still happens, since that is the point where Go Won changes the timeline. Here is what the new current timeline looks like:

Because of Go Won altering the timeline, the events after love4eva/Let Me In never happen and certain events that occur in the [+ +] timeline have been altered.

ViVi doesn’t meet ⅓ and is still an android, though she presumably had found a way to become human again by “Why Not”.

Yeojin doesn’t get lost in the endless forest.

Olivia no longer resents Yves since she was not abandoned. Her journey to loving herself begins anew through “So What” and “Why Not”.

Odd Eye Circle has yet to reunite. However, we see that Choerry was with Hyunjin in “So What”, and the girls are rediscovering the powers of Odd Eye Circle in “Why Not”.

Part 3 - Updated theories

This is where I want to bring up some previous points I made in my last timeline analysis and how they have changed.

No one killed ViVi

I am no longer sided with the theory that Olivia or any of the members were involved in ViVi's death. Instead, I think she could’ve become an android after an accident. (See my “How did ViVi become an android?” theory.)

Yves does not lure Yeojin into the forest

I think something else might’ve happened that caused Yeojin to wander off, but I have seen a theory that Yeojin was in Eden and the “frog prince” she saw was Yves. I don’t think this was the case, since they have also said that the frog prince represents Yeojin’s “boyfriend” in the LOONAverse, but it’s an interesting perspective nonetheless. (Check out fairypinch’s video on Youtube.) 

Side note: The “forest” that Yeojin has been described to be lost in has been referred to as the “endless forest” aka “the Moebius forest”.

I watched a video that was part of a “complete” lyrical analysis of LOONA’s discography (unfortunately, they’ve only done up to Olivia’s solo debut T T but it’s a very interesting watch regardless; the channel is Ross Kpop Stats.) and based on their theory, I think Yeojin could’ve heard a song calling to her and wandered into the forest.

Yves meets Choerry prime, not mirror Choerry

Mirror Choerry cannot come into Choerry prime’s world; however, she can still communicate with Choerry due to her Odd Eye powers connecting her to the mirror world.

I do still think, however, that Mirror Choerry did see Go Won, since she was upside-down and I previously theorized that what we saw in “One & Only” could be a dream. (See my dream interpretation analysis on Go Won’s MV.)

Olivia’s heart was not “swallowed”

I’ve begun to think that Jinsoul’s rap in “Egoist” might not be referring to her herself “swallowing” Olivia’s heart. It might be Jinsoul acting as shadow Olivia (as I’ve theorized Olivia has a split personality; link here). Regardless, there’s still some significance that they chose Jinsoul for the rap.

Also, she doesn’t wish for the other yyxy members’ hearts to merge with her. When we see her bite the apple in that same video, it is showing her finally decide to reject Eden and be free of it completely.

yyxy are not “one” as in they are literally one person; they are “one” as a unit and a part of LOONA as a whole.

No broken cassette tapes

Loominosity debunked the idea that ViVi’s tape case was cracked; it’s just tree branches behind ViVi. (Link here)

No diverging timelines either; The Carol 2.0 is just a cute holiday video with ViVi, Choerry, and Yves!

Everything from Butterfly to Why Not is one timeline

Essentially, Butterfly showed us the catalyst of LOONA’s “butterfly effect” to change the timeline. We see the result of that in “So What”, which has many parallels to “Hi High”, and “Why Not”.

I’m also beginning to theorize that Heejin actually jumped forward in time. She could’ve temporarily escaped the loop (as we see in the #1 teaser) and fell back into “So What”.

This also means that Go Won would retain her memories of the previous timeline, while everyone else has forgotten them.

I’ll admit, a lot of my old ideas felt like reaches since I was still learning about the lore. Now that I’ve spent time becoming more familiar with the group and their music, I think I’ve come to a clearer vision of the story.

So with all of that said, here is my new breakdown of the current storyline...

The LOONAverse started out as stable, but then something caused it to become unstable. This resulted in the universe becoming a Moebius strip, separating three worlds (Earth, Middle Earth, and Eden), and creating a time loop.

We don’t know when or how this happened; all we know is that the loop exists and it is a force that is preventing LOONA from reaching their goal.

At some point, Odd Eye Circle was formed with Kim Lip, Jinsoul, and Hyunjin, and were given the powers of the Odd Eye.

In Eden, Yves finds and eats the forbidden fruit, where she’s given knowledge of her fate and of the loop. She decides to rebel and travels to Earth, where she meets ViVi.

Shortly after, however, ViVi gets in an accident, nearly dies, and is converted to an android, where her memories get messed up and she forgets Yves.

Hyunjin receives a mysterious bracelet from an unknown sender, and tries to search for answers. 

Odd Eye Circle finds the cherry that can send them to Earth. Jinsoul leaves one for Choerry, and when she eats it, she and Hyunjin switch places.

Jinsoul decides to go to Earth to look for Hyunjin, and meets Olivia Hye. She gets trapped on Earth and loses her powers and memories.

Heejin, a normal girl in Paris, is bored of her repetitive daily routine and wishes for her life to be filled with color. In search of some excitement, she decides to go travelling.

Two of Yves’ friends in Eden, Chuu and Go Won, decide to reject Eden and join in her plans to escape to Earth. They meet Kim Lip, who was searching for Jinsoul, and it’s revealed Go Won made the bracelet that was sent to Hyunjin.

Now, Hyunjin lives in Tokyo, with no memory of the Middle Earth or Odd Eye Circle. She meets Heejin and the two become friends. They both befriend Haseul and Yeojin, who are like sisters. ViVi meets Jinsoul in Hong Kong.

During Christmas time, Haseul finds Chuu when she first fell from Eden and wakes her up.

Haseul then has a dream where she finds and kills her doppelganger.

Yves, Chuu, and Go Won escape from Eden, leaving behind Olivia Hye, who feels resentment and anger for being abandoned.

ViVi meets Heejin, Hyunjin, and Haseul, and eventually becomes human. However, they learn Yeojin has wandered off into an “endless forest” and went missing, so they cast a spell of love to find her.

Olivia Hye falls to Earth, and learns to love herself and let go of her anger. She then meets Heejin after she went into the endless forest and learned about the loop. She convinces Olivia to join the others on Earth, and eats the forbidden fruit to be free of Eden.

Jinsoul regains her powers and memories, and Kim Lip senses Choerry and pursues her. They revitalize their powers during an eclipse and learn of the loop. 

Kim Lip helps Choerry find the mirrors where she awakens her powers, connects with the mirror world through her reflection (her shadow/mirror world counterpart), and learns of the loop. They reunite with Jinsoul to merge their moons and complete the Odd Eye Circle.

Choerry meets Yves when she first fell from Eden and helps her escape by meeting Go Won in her dreams and leaving the roses for them in the forest.

After all the girls gather together on Earth, they try to break free of the loop, but fail as the time loop resets.

In order to change the events of the timeline and break the loop, Go Won stays behind in Eden while Olivia takes her place. She then goes to the dreamworld/mirror world to stop Haseul from killing her doppelganger and changing her fate.

Due to Go Won’s butterfly effect, the timeline begins to change. Heejin temporarily breaks out of the loop before falling back in and chaos ensues. The girls start a rebellion in their efforts to break free. They see the moon burn and meteors fall to Earth.

After the chaos, the Odd Eye Circle members start to regain their powers, and the group holds a midnight festival in celebration for the rise of a new moon.

...

And there you have it! Like I said, this may not be perfect, there are definitely parts of the story I want to re-analyze, and I’m sure whenever LOONA make their next comeback, it’s going to lead to some very interesting developments.

But I also wanted to do this since some of my theories have changed. The LOONAverse is so fascinating because it can lend itself to so many different theories and viewpoints, that it even challenges the viewer’s own thoughts on the story.

I hope you guys found this interesting. Feel free to share your own thoughts and opinions as well! Have a good day and, as always...

Stan LOONA! 🌙✨

[definitelynotcesia]

good eve! submission to my loml abt my theories that i shook off of my brain. pls this is only for cesia because i accidentally said too many things here hehe.

warning: whatever i said here are just merely theories and they might be wrong so read with utmost discretion.

it's been a while since i have even heard from you

And I should just tell you to leave 'cause I

Know exactly where it leads, but I

Watch us go 'round and 'round each time

here,, i looked at this as if i am either taehyun or yn. but lets say this is more likely to be yn because she's the one who knows and is aware of everything that's happening. yn has this sofi the bitch situation right?and knowing yn she might think that she should stop this rekindled connection with taehyun since yea sofi but this verse gives me the hope that our yn will keep this connection going this time?? like she would have this yea fuck it let's keep this yn x taehyun conversation instead of sunny x taehyun (since sofi is pretending to be sunny now. eww) situation. i think yn would keep this connection again even though she knows the consequences of this action. so if this is right, there might be some yn x taehyun subtle landian blessings. i am keeping my fingers crossed for this one.

The lights are off, he's taking off his coat (mmm, yeah)

I say, "I heard, oh

That you've been out and about with some other girl"

Some other girl

He says, "What you heard is true, but I

Can't stop thinking 'bout you and I"

pls im very intrigueed because yn nd taehyun recently had a conversation abt this right? him and sofi. like the last update was about taehyun and sofi's relationship and how yn was talking about it. but pls bear in mind that taehyun implied that yn was secretly hoping right? right??? so this is where "What you heard is true, but I can't stop thinking 'bout you and I" makes really sense for me because taehyun admitted that there is something abt sofi nd him (because sofi is pretending to be sunny eww again) but he knows that the connection between him and yn is what keeps him up at night. he cant help but think abt what he and yn has. he feels something. something that he could not pin out. yes mr. kang keep on thinking. so maybe,,, he'll start comparing yn to the past sunny (yn's persona) to the present sunny which is none other than the pretentious sofi. And maybe yn isn't the only one secretly hoping at this point. *winks*

but then,,, an insider told me that this song might be a spoiler for the whole story instead of a chapter (insider kind of suspicious tho). so i started looking at it in a bigger setting (sorry im still going.).

so style is generally accepted to be taylor swift's song about harry styles (nothing is confirmed here but miss swift,,, i can feel it.). but that's not the entire point here. i would just like to give u guys a background about the song. the song has been analyzed and interpreted for many times now and there are many similarities as well as differences. like how the song kinds of tells us about a relationship and they know that it will not work out at the first place but they insisted on doing it. there are other analysis that says that this song is about two lovers that weren't just synching as if time wasn't agreeing their way. others says that this one is about being uncertain about a relationship. all of the analysis ive mentioned are yes,, you've guessed it - are my points on how style is related to helpline or how it spoils the whole series...?

So first point/connection. we know at the very beginning of helpline and the interaction between taehyun and yn (as herself) it was just yn that likes taehyun because taehyun alr likes sunny at this point. flashbacks of the secondhand embarrassment brought to u by yn and beomgyu. so she alr sees this relationship with tyun as hopeless because he likes the persona that she created, the exact same persona that she was scared to reveal. it was upon taehyun's support and the daycare as well that made yn feel positive about this. reference #1: style is about knowing that things wont really work out and would just end up badly but you still did it anyway.

second, reference #2: style is about a relationship that is not synching up. "Well it's basically kind of one of those relationships that's always a bit off. I talk about in another song on the record, a crooked love, which is kind of like never quite synced up right..." taylor mentioned this during her promotion for the 1989 album. so notice how whenever the relationship between taehyun and sunny is at its highest, suddenly there are conflicts arising. this might be just cesia's writing technique but notice the lyrics!!! "and when we go crashing down, we come back every time". the first crash was when taehyun likes sunny instead of yn. but yn is sunny! and that ladies and gents is the firt come back. the second crash was the allegations abt who might be the real sunny and the first come back mi amigos is taehyun's reassurance to sunny aka yn. the latest crash and the most annoying of all is sofi and i am still hoping for the next come back that might happen real soon.

reference #3: "When I wrote this next song I was thinking about how we have these kind of fashion staples that never quite, we never quite throw them out of our closet, right? No one's going to be like, why are you wearing a little black dress, no on wears that, that was so two years ago. Everybody has that perfect little black dress or for a guy that great white t-shirt that fits you perfect. You may not necessarily wear them all the time, but they're always there in the back of your closet in case you need to go to your old standby, that classic thing that always works. I was thinking about that, and I then I was thinking about how there are feelings like that, how there are trends that never go out of style and how there are feelings that never go out of style. Do you see where I'm going with this?" the feeling that taehyun that he's not throwing or neglecting was how he felt connected to sunny in a very intimate way. like i think that was what he was looking for in sofi, yes the pretentious sofi. he was looking for that kind of connection. the safeness and the realness of taehyun and sunny towards each other. notice how the connection was only visible when he was talking or with yn (the real sunny). because the connection between him and sunny cannot be faked. no matter how hard sofi tries to pretend and act the connection is just nowhere to be found.

i dont have enough time to concluded this now but i hope this makes sense to cesia klshdjkgshjjhahj

the loml being the yn protection squad™ leader and founder that she is,,,,

these are actually very very interesting theories you have written here babe. i think some theories quiet matched to what i had in mind tbh, sort of almost but not quite ?? (if the grammar is right,,, wtf). i'm interested in your other theories though akbskdhsn why does this feel like a research oral defense or smth

you really placed so much effort in dissecting the song omg i already told you this but i'm telling you once again,,, you make me cry so hard wtf :< i just love you sm, my soulmate :<<

ps: all of this may have started from here

[passionate-reply]

Stan Ridgway is best remembered as the guy from Wall of Voodoo, and Wall of Voodoo are best remembered as the guys from “Mexican Radio.” But there’s a whole lot more to Ridgway’s solo career, which began with 1986′s The Big Heat--Americana, epic narratives, and a whole lot of digital synth. (Transcript below the break!)

Welcome to Passionate Reply, and welcome to Great Albums! Today, we’ll be looking at an often overlooked solo debut: Stan Ridgway’s The Big Heat, first released in 1986.

Stan Ridgway is best remembered as the original frontman of Wall of Voodoo, and Wall of Voodoo, in turn, are best remembered for the single “Mexican Radio,” a landmark bit of New Wave eclecticism that became an unlikely hit thanks in large part to heavy rotation on MTV. That said, like a lot of ostensible “one-hit wonders,” the span of Ridgway’s artistic career is quite a bit more varied and more interesting than this solitary recording might suggest. While I don’t believe that “Mexican Radio” is simply a novelty song that can easily be dismissed, I will set it aside for the time being, because any attempt to cover the rest of Stan Ridgway’s work is probably better off without worrying about it. Instead, let’s take a look at his first bona fide solo release: the 1983 single, “Don’t Box Me In.”

Music: “Don’t Box Me In”

“Don’t Box Me In” was a collaboration between Ridgway and percussionist Stewart Copeland, then known chiefly for his work with the group The Police. While Copeland is now fairly well known for his work composing scores for cinema and video games, this was one of his first forays into that field: the soundtrack to Francis Ford Coppola’s film adaptation of Rumble Fish. Based on a novel by S. E. Hinton, most famous for The Outsiders, Rumble Fish was actually a tremendous flop for Coppola, perceived to be a bit too avant-garde for its own good, and Copeland’s percussion-led score for the film, experimental in its own right, certainly didn’t help that perception. Despite all of this, “Don’t Box Me In” managed to do fairly well for itself as a single, achieving substantial alternative radio play purely on its own merits. And merits it has, weaving together the experience of a fish trapped in a tiny bowl with a more universalized sense of human ennui, being overlooked and underestimated by everyone around you. Not to be underestimated himself, Ridgway has not only written these evocative lyrics, but delivers them in a manner that shows a complexity beyond his semi-affected Western twang, conveying fragility and uncertainty alongside indignation and determinedness. This is also the version of Stan Ridgway whom we meet when we listen to The Big Heat.

Music: “Camouflage”

Despite being the very last single released from The Big Heat, the eerie war yarn “Camouflage” would go on to be the most successful track from the album, and Ridgway’s best-known hit as a solo artist. Perhaps surprisingly, the single was largely snubbed in the charts of Ridgway’s native USA, becoming a much bigger hit throughout Europe. While playing the harmonica and sporting a bolo tie, Ridgway seems to almost play the character of the quintessential American, and perhaps it’s that quality that’s caused this apparent rift. Is it necessary to analyze his art through the lens of exoticism in order to find it appealing?

It’s a hard question for me to answer, personally--I might be from the US myself, but at the same time, the vast majority of the music I listen to is European, as a natural consequence of being chiefly a devotee of electronic music. There is still a sort of novelty factor I find in Ridgway’s work. I remain in awe of the fact that a musical genius exists who uses a hard R, and says “huh?” instead of “pardon me?” But, of course, I am amazed by this moreso because it makes me feel “represented,” for once, in a musical tradition which is important to me. If people from Britain’s crumbling industrial centers like Sheffield and Manchester have made great electronic music, then surely synthesisers can also tell the stories of the American Rust Belt, where I come from? For that, we’ll have to step away from the sort of typified narrative of “Camouflage,” and take a listen to the album’s title track.

Music: “The Big Heat”

“Camouflage” told us a tale as old as time, in which a benevolent ghost offers one last act of aid to a vulnerable human being. The album’s title track, on the other hand, alludes to a particularly 20th Century form of storytelling: the detective drama and film noir, as hinted at by its allusion to the classic Fritz Lang film of the same title. Ridgway assumes the perspective of the hardboiled detective, hot on the trail of some mysterious quarry, and it is the innocent passers-by he seeks information from who respond with the song’s banal refrain: “Everybody wants another piece of pie today.” For as much as people have mocked Ridgway’s singing style over the years, you’ve got to appreciate his lilting delivery of this line here in the first verse, where it comes from the mouth of a female character.

It’s easy, of course, to see such apparent non sequitur lyrics in Ridgway’s oeuvre as merely ridiculous, as many quickly do with the likes of “Mexican Radio,” but the more you listen to him, the more his style begins to make sense. The instinct to find humour in things is deeply connected to the feeling of being surprised, and encountering the unexpected. Ridgway happens to be all about delivering the unexpected, and it’s precisely the surface-level absurdities and surprises his lyricism offers that make us think more deeply about the stories he tells. The title track of The Big Heat isn’t about pie, but rather the fact that everybody its characters encounter appears to be grasping for more out of life, and hungry for something else. It’s what drives criminals to transgress against the law, and it’s also, perhaps, what drives the detective to devote himself to the pursuit of the abstract principle of “justice.” To both the villain and the hero of this story, the civilians they brush past are little more than means to an end, despite their display of greater wisdom and insight into these issues than anyone else. Ridgway excels at conveying this sort of saintly everymannishness, and does so with similar gusto on the track “Pick It Up (And Put It In Your Pocket)”.

Music: “Pick It Up (And Put It In Your Pocket)”

“Pick It Up (And Put It In Your Pocket)” was actually not released as a single, which is perhaps surprising given its hooky quality and sprightly synth backdrop. While “Camouflage” is assembled chiefly from traditional instruments, with only a subtle intrusion of Yamaha DX-7 to remind you that it came out in 1986, many of the other tracks, like this one and the title track, are willing to double down on electronic influences, and ride the wave of “peak synth-pop” that was easily cresting by the mid-1980s. That aside, the central theme of “Pick It Up (And Put It In Your Pocket)” is the quotidian avariciousness one encounters among ordinary folk, and the psychological effects of living in a “mean world.” While the text mostly revolves around the idea of living in fear, and the paranoia of knowing that “everything changes hands when it hits the ground,” it reaches a climax by showing us an actual situation where this occurs: the pathetic figure of a filthy old man who finds a small bill in the road, and, in a fit of folk superstitiousness, is said to “thank the street.” The song’s tension lives between the bustle of the jealous ones, and the reality of life for those desperate enough to pick up money from the street. Like many of Ridgway’s greatest works, this track simultaneously portrays the mentality of the common man in a direct and serious manner, but also opens up room for it to be criticized. This everyman bystander persona is assumed more directly in the track “Drive, She Said.”

Music: “Drive, She Said”

While the album’s more electronic elements are its main draw, in my eyes, there are still a number of tracks that remain dominated by traditional instruments, “Drive, She Said” being a prime example of them. While narratives are always at the center of Ridgway’s work, “Drive, She Said” moves us away from omniscient narration like that of “Pick It Up (And Put It In Your Pocket)” and back into the mind of a specific and individualized narrator--in this case, a cab driver who somewhat reluctantly transports a bank robber, with whom he might also be falling in love. While it doesn’t have the supernatural implications of “Camouflage,” the two stories do seem to have much in common: an ordinary person meets someone who quickly reveals their extraordinary nature, and despite the brevity of their encounter, the protagonist is deeply affected, and perhaps changed, by the events. Much as “Pick It Up (And Put It In Your Pocket)” sees fit to shatter its apparent main premise, with an interlude that shifts the tempo of the music as well as introduces the contrasting figure of the old beggar, “Drive, She Said” introduces an interlude of its own: the driver’s reverie, in which he runs away with his enigmatic passenger. As in many of Ridgway’s tales, we must consider both the beauty of a wonderful dream, and its sheer impossibility.

On the cover of The Big Heat, we see a portrait of Stan Ridgway looking glum, which is not itself terribly unusual for an album cover, though the fact that he’s behind a metal fence certainly is. The main focus of the image seems to be Ridgway’s environment, a bleak industrial setting full of towering machinery, and no other traces of human beings. The absence of other figures in this scene draws attention to the scale of the machines, as well as the fact that in many parts of the US, including my own, it’s very common to see equipment like this that’s fallen into disuse and disrepair. Much as ruined aqueducts and palaces mark the places in Europe where the Roman Empire had once held fast, these sorts of derelict manufacturing facilities are a common sight in America, and serve as reminders of the squandered “American Century.” While many album covers have shown me places I like to imagine myself visiting, I don’t have to imagine what being here might be like, having grown up in a place whose pride left soon after the steel industry did. It strikes me as exactly the kind of setting that Ridgway’s narratives ought to take place in: dirty, simple, well-intentioned, doomed, and all-American.

Ridgway’s follow-up to The Big Heat would be 1989’s *Mosquitos,* an album that largely abandons the many synthesiser-driven compositions found in his earlier work. It’s hard to fault him for this decision, given how much the mainstream appeared to be souring on synth-pop and electronic rock by the end of the decade, but it does mean that this album offers little I’d want to listen to recreationally. That is, with the exception of its third and final single, “Goin’ Southbound,” a practically epic drama of small-town drug smugglers trying to survive, and one that fires on all cylinders when it comes to fiddles dueling with digital synths. This track feels like it would fit right in on The Big Heat, so if you’ve enjoyed this album, don’t miss it.

Music: “Goin’ Southbound”

My favourite track on The Big Heat is “Salesman,” which, to my surprise, received a small advance promo release without ever becoming a true single. The titular character, an unctuous but insecure traveling salesman, is as rich a narrating persona as any of the many in Ridgway’s catalogue, and I love the way the refrain just feels like a song you might make up while idly doing something else, silly and yet primal at the same time. It captures the feeling of living “on the edge of the ball,” enjoying the freedom of spontaneity, but also, perhaps, suffering for its enforced sloppiness. That’s everything for today, thanks for listening!

Music: “Salesman”

[borkthemork]

Image Juxtaposition: SUF’s Old and the New in “Little Graduation”

Now, I have covered this previously in a post before about image/object symbolism regarding the cassette tape, but I don’t think I gave it much justice in giving reason to it; I didn’t give a strong reason to why this image seemed consistent with the concept of symbolism, and ever since rewatching it I’m more confident in deep-diving into this episode overall regarding discussing it.

So in this post, we will bring our focus to the dichotomy between the old and new imagery found in this episode, and how it plays a massive part in creating a wistful atmosphere for our main protagonist.

My sources on certain stuff will be reblogged for the sake of avoiding Tumblr sniping me off the tags, and let’s begin.

However, before we diverge into this whole post, we’re going to need a reference point on symbolism and its probability of existence. When it comes to analyzing pieces of media, I want to make sure that there’s a solid platform for my discussions relating to the possibility of certain themes, subjects, or other forms of a literary figure. 

For “Little Graduation” I want to make sure that these pieces of analysis have some grounding, so I decided to pull out a ‘Symbolism Consistency’ reference from a website we could use as we talk more about this episode (I’m just paraphrasing it).

1. Look at Descriptions

We have to look at the way they implement these images into the world. Sure, it could be seen as fewer than two times, but creators know that each scene has to be important in some way or another (and we know Crewniverse loves to give us small-scale and large-scale symbolism throughout the Steven Universe series). So if the symbol is given a moment of consideration or has been lost, then there’s something being said.

2. Look for Repetition

If the imagery goes along with a similar theme it is correlated to, there’s usually some form of consistency or emphasis in the use of its implementation.

3. Look at the Turning Points

If it happens at certain points or at high/low moments of the story, there’s definitely some form of focus onto what it means. The creators want the audience to hone in on it, and that’s where they particularly give that attention.

Now that we’ve gotten this stuff out of the way, let’s talk about “Little Graduation”!

The first thing we see with this episode is the use of the cassette tape.

The cassette tape is a piece of technology that has grown obsolete over time but is still one of the most prevalent connections to Steven’s childhood that we have: his dondai has a cassette tape player, he had Rose’s tape, he watched old shows like Lil’ Butler on a tape, there’s also the blast to the past with Mr. Smiley’s Big Donut tape. They bring him a lot of memories regarding his childhood and there’s a sense of nostalgia to them as well towards the audience since it connects us to the main show when Steven enjoyed them whole-heartedly as an adolescent.

However, we can note that in Steven’s universe, the cassette tape is growing a bit obsolete and it’s not just an occurrence in our own world. In the original series, we already know that laptops, phones, and other pieces of human tech are the norm, but in SUF and SU the Movie we can see that technology growing and improving.

The world is going faster with improvement. Older technology is truly getting pushed off as something deemed old.

It fits well with the theme of the episode when we implement it; the ability to move forward into the future, to allow people to choose their own paths now that new opportunities are being found and embraced. This is Steven Universe: Future, the theme of plans and change were bound to happen. 

Newer technology could be representative of Steven’s friends and colleagues pushing on to better things, to better objectives.

And Steven, in the role he had placed himself in, feels like he’s becoming obsolete, unneeded, just like a cassette tape. In episodes such as “Guidance,” he attempted to find another reason to help out, to assist in the best way he could because he wanted to be needed — that’s the role he mentally implanted into himself ever since he was a kid. The healer. The diplomat. The therapist. The helper.

What else could he find in himself now that the future is being rammed into him, especially with his current mental state?

So when the emphasis is placed on Steven deciding over whether to get the disc or the cassette tape, we have to analyze the abstract concept being portrayed rather than the literal. Yes, this boy has a cassette tape player — he had an easy choice to make with that context, but this scene gave him a choice.

Do you take the disc, the newer technology? Or do you take the cassette tape, the older technology?

Do you want the past or the future?

And he took the past.

However, what I find interesting is the way the cassette tapes are used with music.

Steven, at the beginning, is listening to Sadie Killer and the Suspects in jovial nature, before the big reveal of them departing was ever brought forth to him. Even if he didn’t get the notion that the band broke up, there’s still a connection to the past with the music, especially when it’s implied that Steven is listening to Sadie’s and Shep’s new music at the end of the episode.

Beats his fingers to the rhythm of the song too, so it’s a good chance that the positioning of these scenes parallel each other, especially Steven’s mindset from the beginning compared to the end of the episode.

Steven, while listening to the first song, was in a phase of comfort. He’s not thinking or contemplating much on a somber level but more so excited overseeing parts of his life still intact, such as the Spacetries business and seeing the band come back to Beach City.

It doesn’t help that the lyrics he’s listening to brings up terms such as teenagers — a term in the eyes of Sadie Killer and the Suspects as a past phase of their life now that they’re young adults.

But in the second scene, it’s more bittersweet.

The song “Looking Forward” — a song of going into the future and releasing the burdens of one’s baggage — is being played on a cassette, a piece from the past, a piece connected to a supposedly simpler time. There’s a contrast, a split amid these two concepts: what we’re witnessing is the moment Steven felt the cognitive dissonance between moving forward and his insistence on settling into the past.

It reminds him that people are moving on, and we already know that his mental paradigm is still stuck into the prior times, in the status quo, because in “Prickly Pair”, he’s still not over it. 

There are so many issues lying under the surface relating to it, but this boy created an identity over helping others, and now that people are walking forward because of his help, he has no one left to help push forward but himself, and that terrifies him. 

He has no idea how to start and he doesn’t even want to.

[astrochiron]

The Signs :: Channel Orange // Frank Ocean

Aries- Sweet Life

“You've had a landscaper and a house keeper since you were born The starshine always kept you warm”

This line refers to an easy life, one of luxury and means. What’s more, this person has had these things since birth, not even earning these things themselves. An Aries rising chart is called natural, as their houses are led by their associated signs, their life tends flows easily and this person has had a similar life.

“So why see the world, when you got the beach? Don't know why see the world, when you got the beach”

Aries is the sign of self and your own experiences that you don't have to reach out for. This person has trouble seeing outside of their world and, in fact, refuses to branch out. They have the “beach” in their own mind allowing them to ignore the things going on around them.

Overall

This song is a challenge to look outside of oneself and your own comforts to empathize and experience the ways of others. Frank wants her to step outside of her privilege and her pretty surroundings to maybe experience something else, something less curated for them. The lyrics imply a sense of immaturity exhibited by the subject, not fueled by the search of fun but by circumstance.

Taurus- Pink Matter

“That soft pink matter Cotton candy, Majin Buu, oh, oh, ohh Close my eyes and fall into you, you, you My God, she's giving me pleasure” close my eyes and fall into you” 

This line provides sensory imagery of softness and pleasure, two things Taurus is associated with. Cotton candy and Majin Buu (a DBZ character) conjuring up safe and comfortable imagery of childhood and happiness. Frank’s moved on to another source of pleasure though, as this line alludes to sex and the pleasure of it. Taurus is associated with the physical pleasure of sex.

“Pleasure over matter” 

Both pleasure and physical mater are associated with Taurus. Taurus is an Earth sign, associated with physical matters like money, possessions, and even your relationship with your physical body. Pleasure is the ultimate goal and that is bolstered by the maintenance of physical means.

Overall

This song’s focus on the body, especially the feminine one, links it to the feminine sign of Taurus. While Virgo is linked with physical health and routine, Taurus shows how we view and worship the body. This song also focuses on desire, another Taurean trope.

Gemini- Thinkin’ Bout You

“A tornado flew around my room before you came Excuse the mess it made, it usually doesn't rain in”

The chaos and air-related tornado is a perfect symbol for Gemini, a restless and powerful force made of fluent thought and free-ranging speech (Air related things). Frank is also lying to this guy, saying his room is messy because of a tornado. I’m not implying Gemini’s lie, but they certainly have fun with the truth more than most signs.

“Since you think I don't love you, I just thought you were cute That's why I kissed you”

This song displays the inquisitive and impulsive nature of Gemini. Frank kissed the guy because he thought he was cute, plain and simple, almost like school kids on the playground. This also displays the dismissal of romantic disinterest (common in the manner of most air signs) for inquisitiveness.

Overall

The title literally has “thinking” in it, which is Gemini’s superpower as the mutable air sign. The whole song is something of a train of thought ramble that Frank is well known for, honestly. The whole song has a childhood vibe, even supported by Frank saying this is about a time when he was 17 or so. Gemini is linked with our formative years and though, 17 is a bit old for Gemini’s range, it’s still cerebrally nostalgic and witty.

Cancer- Forest Gump

“Forrest Gump You run my mind, boy Running on my mind, boy Forrest Gump”

Cancers have a tendency to linger on thoughts, especially the emotional nature of them. I don't think Cancers are crybabies (I'd give that more to Pisces who cry from happiness, frustration and sadness all in the same hour), but they are very emotionally strong and emotionally stubborn. Their emotions are forefront in memory and so is the way Forest made Frank feel.

“Forrest green, Forrest blues I'm remembering you If this is love, I know it's true I won't forget you”

The “Forest blues” points toward Frank being in feelings over a past situation. Whether over something that happened when they were together or over the break-up itself, Frank is sad and a cancer will never forget how someone made them feel.

Overall

This song has a focus on past feelings for someone, not specific memories. Cancers are very subjective and, instead of remembering facts about a memory, they'd be remembering how they were feeling during the time. As a bonus, the song is  named after an older movie which was itself based in nostalgia.

Leo- Super Rich Kids

“Real love, I'm searching for a real love”

Leos are associated with romance and unconditional love. Their search for joy and the uninhibited feeling of childhood makes them crave and seek true love, sometimes at the detriment of their well being, but aways for the better in the end. No matter how unhealthy, these two searching for genuine love from one another, though finding temporary joy in drugs.

“Caddy-smashing, bratty ass He mad, he snatched his daddy's Jag And used that shit for batting practice”

Earl’s whole rap discusses the more self-destructive traits of Leo. This line in particular shows the sometimes self-centered nature, expressing their anger by inflicting pain on others. Leos are very expressive and, despite their genial nature, are still passionate fire signs. This also a very childish expression of emotion, and our inner-child is linked with this sign.

Overall

Immaturity is often a negative trait associated with fire signs. Leo’s exhibit this immaturity when they may make bad decisions trying to seek love and acceptance, as well as looking for fun and enjoyment in the wrong places. And while not outright said, the subjects of this song seem to blessed (or cursed) with the fame and fortune associated with Leo.

Virgo- Lost

“And I just wanna know Why you ain't been going to work Boss ain't working you like this He can't take care of you like this”

This line display’s Virgo’s focus on work and duty. It also exhibits their often gently direct nature. This is very much a line a Virgo would say to their out-of-work partner, “This place is a mess! And I just wanna know; why you ain’t been going to work?” Virgos also take great care of their partner, even to the extent of being servile at times. He’s taking care of her and giving her a job.

“Hand me my triple weight So I can weigh the work I got on your girl”

Frank’s weighing out his product, showing the minutiae of his drug life. The song could focus on all the stuff he could buy for her, selling all these drugs, or even getting high on them himself, but instead he discusses weighing it up and strapping it to her. Frank employs this girl as a drug mule, being her boss and her lover; providing her employment and care (6th house).

Overall

Frank shows Virgo’s tendency to get caught up in work and the money coming in as opposed to the things that can be done with the money. Frank is always selling to give himself and the girl a better life, every drug run aways being the last one, but never really being the last one. The woman shows Virgo’s dedication to their partner, disregarding their own safety or comfort for their love.

Libra- Pilot Jones

“You're the dealer and the stoner With the sweetest kiss I've ever known”

This line represents the dichotomy of the user and the supplier. She’s both the source of his addiction and she enjoys the outcome of the addiction herself. This shows’s Libras’s tendency to be all things to all people. The last part also points toward Libra’s geniality and tendency to cover up ills and pains with kisses and sweet words.

“But if I got a condo on a cloud Then I guess you can stay at my place”

Despite all the bad decisions and toxicity, Frank is sayin that if he’s in a good place, she will be too. If he gets a raise, she benefits; if he buys a cheesecake, she gets a slice, if not half. When Libra’s are happiest, they want their partner there too, even if their partner was the reason for their unhappiness sometimes.

Overall

This song equates drugs with love, a metaphor I'd definitely associate with Libra. They don't need to be in a relationship, don't get me wrong; but it feels good. Librans lacking in self-expression or happiness or even stimulation, may turn to relationships just out of habit, even if they’re not with a “good” partner or one that is ultimately good for them. Frank is laid back in this song, allowing her to guide his high and really the whole relationship, taking Libra’s laid back and often lax attitude.

Scorpio- Sierra Leone

Spendin' too much time alone (And I just ran outta Trojans) Horses gallop to her throne

We all know about Scorpio’s focus on sex and the intimate connection formed behind it. This includes the first part of this line, as Scorpios tend to have intense relationships, often most intense in solitude with partner. This obviously doesn't involve only sex, but the intimate moments shared between two lovers when by themselves. 

“And a new day will bring about the dawn And a new day will bring another crying babe into the world”

Scorpio is linked with self-transformation, and the imagery of the new day bringing the dawn paints the picture of the whole world being renewed, as well as specifically the characters of this song and their evolutions. The last part of this line points to the birth of the characters’ child. The ultimate rebirth and the ultimate result of Scorpio’s sex and alone time, is a birth itself.

Overall

This song discusses an alternate Frank that got a girl pregnant young. It focuses on how different he’d be and how his life would be. This hypothetical thought experiment is very a very Scorpio thing to me, analyzing “what ifs” and “might be’s”. This song also focuses on the transformation of the characters, especially Frank, from stupid teenaged lovers to responsible parents by the end.

Sagittarius- Monks

“Mosh pits and bare chest Stage diving sky diver Spray the crowd with cold water Now it's mosh pits and wet tits I think I need a cold shower”

This whole verse gives Sagittarian vibes. Sag is ruled by jovial and beneficially social Jupiter. Each line exudes freedom, fun and physical exploration. The parties, lewd behavior, and stimulating music would all be perfect for Sags huge energy and need for experiences.

“African girl speaks in English accent Likes to fuck boys in bands Likes to watch Westerns And ride me without the hands”

This song represents the foreign interests of Sagtttarius. They love accents and different cultures and foreign people (romantically as well as platonically). There’s actually a hodgepodge of cultures represented with the African girl and her English accent with an interest in rock or grunge bands who watches American western movies and an... expansive physical repertoire. 

Overall

This song chronicles a meeting with a groupie, which gives to Sag’s rockstar vibe. Traveling countries, writing songs, and positively affecting masses are all things that Sagittarius is interested in. The groupies, they also probably wouldn't mind. As for the title, a monk, as defined by Oxford is “a member of a religious community of men typically living under vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience.” While the latter art of this definition sounds more like a Capricorn, evolved Sag’s are very monk-like once they’ve found their cause and their moral path.

Capricorn- Pyramids

“We'll run to the future, shining like diamonds In a rocky world, rocky-rocky world Our skin like bronze and our hair like cashmere As we march to the rhythm on the palace floor”

This line represents Capricorns focus on the future. Frank aims to be decked in gems, sun kissed and confidently walking even in a rocky world. Like Capricorn, he aims to dominate his environment and get the best out of it to his own benefit. He’s focused on improving themself and being presented as prestigious and as a king.

“The way you say my name makes me feel like I'm that nigga but I'm still unemployed You say it's big but you take it, ride cowgirl”

Capricorn’s get off on respect. Capricorn is one of those signs that has a link to sex, but primarily because of the power of it. She says his name like he’s the best, she compliment’s his assets, even if they’re still not too big for her. Even though he’s unemployed, he's still the head of household while they’re having sex. This points toward Capricorn’s sense of joy coming from others’ good perceptions of them, even if it’s not the right one. He’s broke, he may not have the biggest penis, and he may not even be the only one, but she makes him feel like all of those things aren't true.

Overall

Though metaphorical, this song focuses on history and royalty. Cleopatra may have been a Capricorn by some calculations and her outright rule of an empire as woman would support that. She was intelligent and business-minded and well-known. This song also shows a shift in status typically associated with Saturn and Capricorn. Though Saturn typically brings slow-but-sure progression, if the lessons it presents us aren't learned from and taken into account, it can take us down as high as it would drive us up. The character in this song goes from queen Cleopatra to Cleopatra working weekends at the Pyramid. Both demand attention, beseech respect, and accumulate wealth, though society sees them so differently.

Aquarius- Bad Religion

“And you say "Allahu akbar" I told him, "Don't curse me" "Bo Bo, you need prayer" I guess it couldn't hurt me “If it brings me to my knees, it's a bad religion, ooh’

The “bad religion” here shows the Aquarian distrust of religion. The driver tries to bless him, but he isn't interested in spiritual intervention, even though he did mention demons earlier in the song. Aquarians aren’t necessarily interested in or focused on religion because of the typical outright devotion involved in it. It’s a turn off for Aquarians and Frank is associating this with the unrequited love he's experiences with his crush.

‘This unrequited love To me, it's nothin' but a one-man cult”

I have a long analysis behind this next statement that I’m willing to back up one day but: Aquarians are attracted to odd social constructs especially things like cults. Every Aquarian I know has expressed interest in cults, dictatorships, or supreme leadership in the New World Order. That being oddly said, this line points toward Frank seeing himself as a worshiper in one of those cults and he wants the hell out. 

Overall

In this song we see how Frank made his love for this person his God and having it unrequited either caused or further proved his own negative feelings toward the whole idea of devotion and love. Aquarians also aren’t known for expressing their feelings in a conventional sense. Instead of going to a therapist and having to discuss feeling or going to a confidant and having to burden a friend or expose yourself to them, Frank chose to make his taxi driver his shrink, since he’s paying him anyway.

Pisces- Crack Rock

“You don't know how little you matter until you're all alone In the middle of Arkansas with a little rock left in that glass dick”

I’ve noticed that Pisceans have a bit of an inferiority-complex. This is typically portrayed a martyrdom but can even be expressed as. complete feeling of inadequacy and ineffectuality. This is due to their more tendency to outwardly exude peace even if they are in distress. This line also explicitly mentions crack, an extremely addictive substance. Pisces does have a link to addictions, though crack is bit extreme. We could replace crack with any momentarily-good but terminally-bad thing like constant sex, alcohol, less deleterious drugs, or even sleep and food. 

“Don't no one hear a sound Don't no one disturb the peace for riot Don't no one disrupt nirvana Don't no one wanna blow the high”

This line points out how Pisces tends to zone out and escape, especially when the world is a bit too much. Sleep is a common one, as Pisceans tend to have amazing dreams that likely beat a shitty or stressful life/situation. Nirvana, the ultimate escape, is associated with Pisces. They’re constantly trying (whether purposefully or subconsciously) to connect with the Great Other or the Universe or God. Anything blowing their high or disturbing their nirvana is cut off.

Overall

Frank said that he sung this song so it would sound like a smoker singing it. He wanted the fractured breath to show a long past and pain, as well as the self-abuse often an unintentional result of substance abuse. “Crack Rock” could also speak of a physical crack in a rock, separating from himself from the ones he loves due to the addiction. Isolation is common theme for Pisces.

check your moon sign (for the song that makes you comfortable and puts you in your emotions), sun sign (the song that makes you happy and the one you ride around to) and venus sign (the one that speaks to your inner artist).