#i need a tag for analysis or something
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rivkae-winters · 1 year ago
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Zack Fair, Violence, and Tragedy
Over the last month or two I’ve seen several posts about the nature of Zack Fair’s tragedy and his seeming heel-toe-turn and thought I’d chime in. 
Also like last time: this is only my interpretation of canon, there is no one true analysis to take as gospel. If you disagree/differ in opinion/even just want to talk please reblog or dm! I enjoy talking to other people about this sort of thing, fandom is all about discussion after all!
While I agree with the sentiment I’ve seen going around that Zack’s relationship to violence plays a role there are other nuances and factors at play here. I’d argue that it’s more accurate to say that Zack is becoming more aware of personal and professional culture outside of SOLDIER and outside of both ShinRa’s constraining grip and Angeal’s attempts at protection. Even then it takes great personal tragedy caused by the inherent contradictions of ShinRa’s reality for him to realize that he has functionally been on the wrong side.  
Sure he’s not callous like Cloud is in the beginning of original and Remake, but he certainly isn’t horrified at his actions just because there is violence. I’d argue the violence of his actions isn’t the main horror to him in isolation. I’d argue that even the death that results from violence isn’t what the core of the issue is either. 
Zack’s hinging point is more his loyalty and his pride. What he does for other people and what he believes in and of himself. Specifically these things in conjunction with his desire to be a good person. 
The language of Pride, the non-localized direct translation of the word hokori or 誇り(JP CC Script), is what’s going to be used here rather than Honor. 
誇り | Hokori - To take pride in; To boast of
Definition Sources: 1, 2, 3
Just keep in mind that I’ve written this from as neutral a point of view as possible on the matter of pride since the Western perception definitively does not apply. To be proud is not a crime and it is not foolish it simply is. 
Zack initially places his pride in SOLDIER- in what being a SOLDIER means to him. In how being a SOLDIER is his and that they are his people and thus he lets ShinRa policies define how he frames his morality. Thus ShinRa defines good in Zack Fair’s life. 
Zack wants to be a hero. He wants to help people. He is trusting and kind and respectful to people consistently outside of the conflict of the mass desertion. Zack genuinely wants to be a good person and help other people, good or otherwise. He is led to believe by ShinRa propaganda that the best way to help people or to be anything meaningful in this world is through them. This is a baited trap that he falls into, Zack is prime prey this trap was intended to catch. 
He is angry at Genesis and horrified by Angeal, especially at the beginning, not for cruelty or violence or even really death… He is angry at them for their betrayal. Sure he is violent and angry in the instance he thinks Angeal has murdered his own mother, as with Genesis and his parents, but that does not define his antagonism, his hatred, his regret, his sense of justice with them at all. 
 Zack does not raise his sword at Genesis for the people of Banora, he raises his sword for SOLDIER. 
Zack understandably feels, and has been, betrayed. 
He is hurt and angry and alone in a way he’s never been since he got into the SOLDIER program. He falls deeper into the illusions of ShinRa for that reason, angry and hurting and grieving the life he had with people in it who will never return. There is a deep sense of nostalgia throughout Crisis Core in the sense of the word’s initial meaning: the pain of missing home. Specifically the homes we find in people.
Even as he believes in ShinRa's twisted reality Zack wants to help. He wants to protect those he cares for. Zack wants to be good. Unfortunately in Zack Fair’s life the undisputed definition of good is now written by the ShinRa Electric Power Corporation alone.
Then he meets Aerith. 
Suddenly ShinRa’s version of right and wrong have opposition but the control that ShinRa has over his life, total and complete as it is, prevents that from sinking in. Zack is perceptive though, around Aerith he is her version of good and then he has to go back to what equates to his phase of reality. A sanctuary is not safe, not truly, when watchers are peering in through the back door ready to drag you out by your feet if you misstep. 
Zack wants to be a man Aerith or anyone won’t be scared of. He wants to do that not because he is suddenly horrified at his own violence but rather in consideration of others. Zack is highly empathetic after all once he can see someone else’s perspective. He wants to be what Aerith wants, even if he doesn’t really and truly understand it yet, because he cares about her and cares about her opinion. He cares about her comfort. Zack still puts most of his pride within SOLDIER though. That means that Aerith’s morals cannot sink through his skin to his center, not like Angeal’s had. She makes him think but she is not shaping his mind, he is left to do that himself.
 Zack spends a lot of time questioning Angeal and being upset at and about him off screen even more than on screen. We don’t get a front row seat for all of it. The big takeaway is that Zack doesn’t shed Angeal’s morals that he’s taken on himself. He can’t after all, not with ShinRa only just seeming tarnished. ShinRa would need to rust and crumble fully before he actually can let them go. Before he can be free in his own mind.
ShinRa chips and rusts in an instant under Sephiroth’s hand. The last holdout crumbled in the fight of two victims of ShinRa and someone who will become one soon. ShinRa is no longer the defined of good, not after what Zack sees is the response to the Nibelheim Incident.
ShinRa not being good, worse even ShinRa being bad breaks the entire morality system. The illusions crack and Zack is forced to examine himself, his actions, and his biases in ways Aerith made him want to but that he couldn’t afford to truly indulge in. Even more that he was scared of self introspection in a sense, of the paradigm of his reality shifting even further. 
He eventually truly reframes his actions and has to reckon with them (and himself) at the end of the game, chapter 9 and onwards. It is only then that he actually LOOKS and is fully horrified by what he sees of himself. That horror only progresses as he fights for both his and Cloud’s lives. That horror only builds as he realizes he’s exactly the person who his girlfriend SHOULD be terrified of despite his best attempts- that he’s everything she was talking about. He’s everything she was talking about even after trying to change the way he acts around her. 
To abuse the innate metaphors: Zack Fair goes to Nibelheim, a well trained attack dog, still seeing relatively little wrong with fulfilling ShinRa’s orders. Zack is only then on the cusp of figuring out that he does not want to be there, that he is the antagonist of the planet’s (and Aerith’s) story unwittingly. 
Zack Fair leaves Nibelheim beaten. He tries to go back to the safety of what was once his home prior to ShinRa only to be waylaid. 
Zack Fair leaves Banora free and irrevocably changed. 
He is free in the sense that the illusions he held himself too are crumbling even more with knowledge that his demons are men too. He is free through the knowledge that he is one of those demons. , that he has been shaped to be one, and that good intentions pave a terribly walkable path to hell. 
Zack leaves with the knowledge that he was the monster in the closet. The knowledge that his sword was not just the executioner’s blade but the enforcer’s. The sword kept clean in favor of bloody hands and higher risks is now drowning in pools of it. Zack leaves with the knowledge that he never would have been truly free. 
Yet he is in the sense that he can choose- actually choose- what he wants, what he values. He chooses Aerith and he chooses Cloud as he has each time before. He chooses violence. It is something he knows and among what he is good at. It is not all he is but it is a tool he can use. 
He chooses to pay the price of freedom. 
Crisis Core is a tragedy and Zack and Genesis both are tragic figures at its center. Zack’s arc is angled to the viewer for maximum effect but Genesis’s does mirror it in a way just on an offset path already initiated. Sephiroth is also a tragic character, undeniably so. However structure wise his role is more murky given the way he has the ability to be the god waiting in the machine, a guaranteed victory or unavoidable altered trajectory should he choose to act, for most of the story. 
And that’s a large part of why I love Zack as a character, aside from things I’ve said before about what makes him such a good narrator. Zack is the unlucky prodigy at the center of a story about wars, abusers, connections, and perspectives. He wants to be good, he wants to be a person that helps. 
He can’t, not really, not in the way he wants. 
Crisis Core is a cautionary tale about exactly that going wrong and how anyone can be taken advantage of. 
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peacockrulz · 7 months ago
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Comic I made earlier this month. Based on a convo w/ a friend :]
bonus:
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Can you tell,,,shes my favorite,,,,
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iamhereinthebg · 3 months ago
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Let's talk about the clock keepers boundary!
(warning: spoilers until chapter 124!!)
I've had some guess on where they could be from so let's look at what we have in the manga for now. I will keep things on surface level for the most part but it's just some things I noticed!
The first mention of the town is in chapter 111, where we finally have a view on their boundary.
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A lot of fans already guessed from their clothes that they were not from Japan, this panel definitely confirms it and even points more precizely to a European country, mostly Western Europe. And also a country where Winter with snow exist.
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It's also not an English speaking country, since Akane cannot understand the language and we know he has english classes at school.
Now there are several things we can look at to have more clues!
First, the architecture.
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This type of house is called Timbered framed houses. It’s important to note that the roofs on those houses are really really sharp here. Which means theywere built for snow, so it can slide off the roofs more easily. The trees are also pines, something that can be found in a lot of Europe. (wood was needed to be able to create houses made of wood/with visible Framework( Little note: I know Italy was a guess for a lot of person because of the link to Pinocchio, but Italy main material for houses is stone not wood. And it is also not known for its winter.)
Here we can also see bricks which is something more associated to countries like Germany, Belgium or the Nertherlands, we don't have the colors so we can't guess from which minerals it was made for now.
But we have even more informations when we look at chapter 124!
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The bridge and tower may be inspired by a fortified city, something that you could find A LOT in Western Europe during the middle age, not a lot of cities still have their entire walls but you can still see it if you go into old medieval towns. We can also see something that looks like a Belfry on several panels. Towers used mostly to indicate each passing hour of the day (may be a campanile or a bell tower (the difference is wether it's linked to religion or not basically)
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Second! Let's do a little bit of clock making history!
I won't go into details, but there are some countries to point for this. England, The Netherlands and Germany. We already took out England before and we can easily erase Nertherlands from the list with the next step (my favorite one).
The food! I already had my suspicions confirmed with this bonus art from volume 22.
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First of all, they have tea which is not something that was in Europe before the XVII century. But let's look at the sweets they have here.
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Chocolates which look close to Belgian chocolate ( I say Belgian but other countries' chocolate is pretty close to it) , Christstollen Cake, and Spiztbuden.
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We have even more to look at with the new chapter! And they confirm that it's indeed a stollen cake.
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With all these foods it's now pretty obvious which area the clock keepers are inspired from.
Stollen cakes are German cakes, ginger cookies are from Germany too. I will also add that there is a chance the crescent moon cookies are VanilleKipferl. We have another panel showing Sausages and bread. Only the Almond is something not typical from Germany but which clearly was all over Western Europe with trades.
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Their city already looked like the 'perfect christmas city' you can see in movies, inspired by German culture. And they also mention Mulled Wine which is THE beverage to take in any chritmas market in Europe.
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Chritmas markets are inspired and coming from Germany first, but I wanna point something more.
My main guess was, Nuremberg, the city where the ancestor of the pocket watch was created, the Nuremberg Egg. It's also a Fortified city and it has forests around it. It's also known for its Ginger cookies!
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So Germany would be a great pic, but the more I think about it the more I can also see the link to another region: Alsace.
Alsace is a region from France right now BUT it's a mixt of german and french culture (I will not make a history lesson but it is a place that always switched between France and Germany basically, now it's French).
All the food mentionned before are also made in the Alsace region!
It's situated in the Vosges, a chain of mountains known to have a lot of forets of pines and which is known to have villages like this:
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Which were also the main inspirations for movies like Howl's moving castle for example. You can see the similarities between the artchitectures
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The first ever Chritmas Market was in Strasbourg, the capital of Alsace, when it was German and it spread accross Europe after.
I will now look at something I usually don't do because I exclude Aus from canon but it's just a funny thing to point out.
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This au shows a snow town inspired by ginger bread houses. I just find it funny because Aoi is shown as a baker, with bread (which are not baguette I think, it's way larger here) but with some croissant on her table (disclaimer: Croissant are not french at first, this form here is, but it's from Austria otherwise) And Kako clearly has something similar to a Wine bottle in his hands. This au is the only one featuring them, was given with their volumes and the vibes are really similar to their boundary.
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I would say no matter what it's definitely closer to German culture but I wanted to point out this region which is known for it's Christmas season and its typical houses.
I will mostly say that it's an inspiration from this region of Europe, I don't know if a real country is the reference for it since we don't even know where tbhk takes place, but it's always funny to look at those things :DD
Little bonus:
In a more messy note, the clothes. I put them at the end because besides their hats, I had no idea how to describe it, since it seems pretty typical of what people could wear in winter.
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I did the research in the other way, to look for German and Alsacian clothing to see if it match and it kinda does but I don't think it's speficific to this region. The girls wear classic white Charlotte and big clothes with layers for Winter.
The clock keepers clothes are different, it looks like a mixt of Japanese and western European clothing (especially from england).
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Their main outfits for Akane and Kako really just look like a typical waistcoast/costume you can find in the XIXth century in Europe and Mirai's seems more inspired by a mixt of a Kimono with several layers(she also has sandals and frills) and a coat? The little knots Kako and Akane have on their coats look like something inspired from Mizuhiki knots too (I actually saw a costume with those exact same knots in a museum but I didn't take a picture rip)
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So I would say they probably changed slowly their attire when they arrived in Japan, we don't know since how many times they are here, but we know that what is happening in the deeper place of the boundary is linked to memories previous to their arrival. According to their origin I think we can say that it's pretty sure they arrived after the Meiji/during the Meiji Era in Japan (1868/1912), since it's a this time Japan mostly imported Western culture (for clothing here, the first contact was before this. And note: it was mostly rich people who dressed like this). And If we look at some others dates like the things they are eating, used to have or even their clothes, I would say it's more probably the Meiji Era and not in the XVs.
Another note is that their clocks have the numbers written in japanese on it (in the og version but it maye just be so it's readable for the japanese readers? idk if it's a choice or not).
I haven't searched much on their clothes but it was still something I wanted to note here ^^
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bennetsbonnet · 4 days ago
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Much has been made of Mr Darcy's "confession" to Elizabeth that he does not converse easily with strangers. It is repeatedly used to support neurodivergent interpretations of his character. And I suppose that when taken at face value, a character confessing that they do not easily converse with strangers and struggle to catch their tone or appear interested in conversation can absolutely scream AUTISM! (I say as an autistic person myself)
But this line is often taken in isolation. When considered in terms of the passage in which it appears in Chapter 31, it appears far less of a smoking gun than may initially be suspected. After some discussion about Elizabeth and Darcy's prior acquaintance in Hertfordshire, Colonel Fitzwilliam asks Elizabeth for information about Darcy's behaviour there. She readily supplies it:
'Pray let me hear what you have to accuse him of,' cried Colonel Fitzwilliam. 'I should like to know how he behaves among strangers.' 'You shall hear then—but prepare yourself for something very dreadful. The first time of my ever seeing him in Hertfordshire, you must know, was at a ball—and at this ball, what do you think he did? He danced only four dances, though gentlemen were scarce; and, to my certain knowledge, more than one young lady was sitting down in want of a partner. Mr Darcy, you cannot deny the fact.' 'I had not at that time the honour of knowing any lady in the assembly beyond my own party.'
What Darcy leaves out here is that it was he himself who chose not to be introduced to anybody. As we learn from the description of his behaviour at the Meryton assembly in Chapter 3:
Mr Darcy danced only once with Mrs Hurst and once with Miss Bingley, declined being introduced to any other lady, and spent the rest of the evening in walking about the room, speaking occasionally to one of his own party.
Anyway, Elizabeth correctly does not buy his excuses. Not only does she respond with a cutting sarcastic remark, but she tries to bring the discussion with an end by speaking to Colonel Fitzwilliam:
'True; and nobody can ever be introduced in a ball-room. Well, Colonel Fitzwilliam, what do I play next? My fingers wait your orders.'
But Darcy does not get the hint and continues conversing with Elizabeth rather than quitting while he's ahead. However, I don't believe him to be missing a social cue here. Rather, this is an exceedingly conceited man who cannot conceive that anyone would not want to speak to such a Superior Being as he and more-so, is determined to defend himself from a perceived slight against his impeccable character.
Then we come to the passage containing the oft-cited line which allegedly contains proof of his neurodivergency:
'Perhaps,' said Darcy, 'I should have judged better, had I sought an introduction; but I am ill-qualified to recommend myself to strangers.' 'Shall we ask your cousin the reason of this?' said Elizabeth, still addressing Colonel Fitzwilliam. 'Shall we ask him why a man of sense and education, and who has lived in the world, is ill-qualified to recommend himself to strangers?' 'I can answer your question,' said Fitzwilliam, 'without applying to him. It is because he will not give himself the trouble.'
Once again, Elizabeth does not buy his excuse for even a single second. She's fully aware of all the advantages a man such as he will have received in society (opportunities not open to women, might I add!) and draws attention to that fact. It's a brilliant, cutting line from her and she really set that one up for Colonel Fitzwilliam to deliver the knockout blow.
Not only do we have the testimony of Mr Darcy's cousin, that 'he will not give himself the trouble,' to appear cordial to strangers, but we have evidence from Wickham too. Although after this statement, Wickham quickly goes onto misrepresent Darcy's kindness to the poor, which contradicts Mrs Reynold's later testimony, I do believe Wickham to be telling the truth (for once!) here, when he tells Elizabeth in Chapter 16:
'Mr Darcy can please where he chooses. He does not want abilities. He can be a conversible companion if he thinks it worth his while.'
Which, again, demonstrates that Darcy is capable when he wants to be. That is the crucial point. Autistic people fundamentally lack the ability to understand social cues, they cannot turn it on and off as they please because they are snobs.
So, now we come to the infamous line about Darcy's supposed social struggles, and I hope that I've provided enough context to the line to make you see that it should not be taken at face value:
'I certainly have not the talent which some people possess,' said Darcy, 'of conversing easily with those I have never seen before. I cannot catch their tone of conversation, or appear interested in their concerns, as I often see done.' 'My fingers,' said Elizabeth, 'do not move over this instrument in the masterly manner which I see so many women’s do. They have not the same force or rapidity, and do not produce the same expression. But then I have always supposed it to be my own fault—because I will not take the trouble of practising. It is not that I do not believe my fingers as capable as any other woman’s of superior execution.'
Again, Elizabeth is not buying his excuses for even a single second and tells him if he feels like that, maybe he should put the effort in. She has seen him in numerous social settings and been thoroughly unimpressed with his behaviour which, when you consider his rudeness to her at the Meryton assembly, she has every right to be.
So, what do I make of the line?
Well, I think it's abundantly clear that Darcy absolutely can speak to people when he wants to. Perhaps, in his mind, he struggles to make that deeper connection and make friends easily. But making friends is not always easy, it's a process you must invest time and effort into. If you do not do that, it stands to reason that you will struggle. Plus, if you hold others to ridiculous standards (as Darcy does) without recognising and fixing the flaws within yourself, you're not going to have deep, lasting friendships.
While this quote may appear to be a moment of vulnerability where he does confess a fault of his, which is astounding given his pride, personally I do not think it was not a soul-searching exercise. It was to make Elizabeth stop grilling him. It was self-serving. Although, I don't think he's entirely lying. Darcy is veeeery careful with his words and though this statement is not considered and perhaps comes out rather abruptly, it doesn't necessarily follow that it isn't true. I can imagine that it is probably something he's felt for a while, yet it is a rather desperate attempt to defend himself from a woman who sees right through him.
I think perhaps Darcy does realise that he isn't as naturally gifted as other men he knows (such as Wickham, Colonel Fitzwilliam and Mr Bingley) when it comes to forming acquaintances. However, he looks outwards and turns that bitterness against the world rather than looking inwards, reflecting upon himself and improving his manners which would be the correct thing to do. Thankfully, he later does this, but it took him twenty eight years...
In addition, Darcy appeared to have been under the illusion that he could coast by on Pemberley's reputation... which has always worked... until he met Elizabeth. For perhaps the first time, he encounters a woman who is not awestruck by him and his reputation and delivers the rebuke that he always needed.
So, while personally I'm inclined to believe there is some truth to his statement, as Mr Darcy is many things but he isn't a liar, I think it is said in desperation. His feeling stems from him knowing what he should do, but he can't be bothered to enact it... rather than any inherent social deficiency stemming from being neurodivergent.
Although, even if he does struggle socially, it's still no excuse for the rudeness he displayed to Elizabeth! My main issue with neurodivergent readings of Darcy is when they are deployed to defend his behaviour, when they attribute his rudeness to any potential neurodivergency and when they excuse his laziness. That is an awful message! Autistic people who struggle with social cues often do not, nor should they, go around insulting others. They should and often do put plenty of effort into being considerate and polite. In fact, I think, if anything, a love of rules makes us more likely to have good manners, rather than the reverse.
Ultimately, I'm not sure this line makes Mr Darcy the sympathetic-poor-sweet-innocent-shy-boy-autistic-representation that people want him to be. In fact it makes him look even worse, if anything. On matters such as these, he is every inch the conceited proud man he was widely believed to be at the Meryton assembly. Luckily, Elizabeth is an incredibly smart woman, who doesn't fall for it and immediately calls him out on his behaviour in a way that he has never experienced before. As she should!
#mr darcy#pride and prejudice#jane austen#elizabeth bennet#colonel fitzwilliam#mr wickham#my analysis#nd things#let darcy be flawed you cowards#<- but we don't necessarily need to pathologise him lol#now i'll whisper quietly in the tags lest the ableist sections of the austen fandom tear me limb from limb#(not saying EVERYONE who disagrees with nd readings of some of darcy's behaviour is ableist just some ways it's countered are... Not Great)#that i don't actually MIND nd!darcy headcanons when done WITHOUT a view to excusing his behaviour#and being clear that it is NOT what the author intended but. autistic boys get away with murder even today so it isn't hard to imagine that#especially with someone with as much wealth and status as darcy... his worst traits could've gone unchecked for so long#but he main reason i don't inherently have an issue with nd!darcy is because nd people existed back then but we weren't accommodated#i get that if he was nd there is an argument the narrative is just about him learning to mask but... a) the concept of masking didn't exist#and b) if he was a woman he'd have had to do it long before 28 sooooo. let the big boy face consequences for his actions!#i think there's something in darcy interpreting his fathers advice so literally with no room for nuance#that it leads him down that path of conceit when he's not actually a bad man at his core and never has been#bc that's very black and white thinking which makes me wonder... but on the whole i'm not sure#i'm not saying either way and ultimately it doesn't matter but it's fun to consider#within reason ofc... it's comforting to see evidence of autism in classics it's one of my FAVE things#but not sure darcy is the best example of this#if you want autistic characters in p&p mr collins and mary are RIGHT THERE lmao#but perhaps they are even worse representation so maybe not lmao#anyway wanted to make this post for a while and the Words came to me today so yay#also i didn't mention adaptations but they don't help... especially A Certain One but i've moaned enough about it for one week#and not in a fun way
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nyaagolor · 9 months ago
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One of the things about Natsuhi that really gets me is that she’s trying so hard to be a tradwife to cope with her situation but like. She’s bad at it. She’s really really bad at being a tradwife. She’s short tempered, belligerent, easily baited by basically anyone trying to get a rise out of her, and constantly makes her husband look worse in her attempts to defend him. She never sits quietly at his side, she never listens when he’s trying to get her to stop and let him do the talking, and she’s constantly taking charge of situations in his stead. Honestly, she just doesn’t have the temperament to be a tradwife, even if she thinks that’s what she is and what she wants.
And what’s the craziest about this is that Sayo figured this out before Natsuhi herself did. Natsuhi is someone who tries to cling onto power in any and every situation she can, in part because she ultimately doesn’t have any agency at all. She tries to find an angle through which to look at her life where she’s the one calling the shots, where she’s the one in charge, because in her super traditionalist framework that’s what autonomy is— it’s always just been punching down. In her mind, punishment and power might as well be synonymous; you’re either being told what to do or telling others what to do.
Natushi could never be the proper, submissive wife that she’s trying to be because she’s just not that good at lying to herself. She’s constantly trying to power grab in petty situations, to overcome the lack of autonomy she’s so frustrated about by throwing her weight around whenever she can. And I think that’s exactly why Sayo gave her the unloaded gun. Natushi immediately becomes bolder— she lashes out, she takes command of situations, she’s confident— because to her the gun is just the physical manifestation of having the agency to be those things at all. She can take charge of situations because in her mind she’s gotten the power to do so now— agency over herself is always coupled with power over others to her. But the gun was always empty and the promise was always false.
It doesn’t matter how Natsuhi feels or what power she wields over the people beneath her, because she never really had any autonomy so long as she was Ushiromiya Natsuhi. She was and is only ever allowed to do what they permitted. When she fights with Eva in the family conferences, it’s because Krauss is wiling to sit back and let her be the scapegoat. She can bully the servants because the people in the house who are actually supposed to be in charge of them don’t care. Natsuhi fights like a dog for any semblance of power or choice in the narrative, not realizing it’s still within the confines of what the people who have stolen her agency are allowing her have. She’s given a metaphorical gun to wave around, but even though it smokes and fires and makes noise, there was never any real threat to the people who gave it to her, because she was given the gun unloaded. Perhaps more importantly though, she doesn’t know the difference
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ajastu · 1 month ago
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god okay. sorry for yet another text post. but i'm just still thinking about the argument that veilguard is bad because the only option re: morality of your player character that it gives is kindness.
Now, to preface. I understand where this criticism comes from. Veilguard IS a departure from the general scheme of the previous games, in several aspects. And i understand how people would be upset at not having quite the same kind of options/ways to influence the world. It took me some getting used to, also.
What i do disagree with, however, is using that to claim that the game is bad, irredeemable, and also meaningless n soft or whatever.
Because it's really not. It's just different, with a different narrative focus. I've played the previous games several times, and as i said before, origins is in first place for me. Veilguard is a very close second. And i'm not more right or wrong in this opinion than someone who thinks datv is the worst game in the series.
You can still make choices that will influence the world in wildly different ways, they're just not... ''genocide or no genocide'' kinds of choices. Which i can see how some people would not consider the difference significant enough to be interesting for them personally. Which is whatever, im not their dad, i dont really care.
However. I think it's kind of weird to say that ''the game made me resent being a nice person'' or that "kindness you dont have the choice not to offer isnt worth a lot"
Like, game criticism aside. That is just an objectively weird thing to say.
There are ways to phrase that particular dissatisfaction in a way that will not make most people side-eye you. This is not one of those ways.
The thing is, it was a deliberate choice in characterization. Since game development at AAA scale is. an incredibly complex beast, i suspect there were many different reasons for it, and not all of them purely narrative. It is also not 2009 anymore. We are not getting another Origins, like, probably ever.
But. Rook is established in the very second cutscene to care about other people. It makes sense narratively, too, with Varric being the one to recruit them. Their backstory also shows that they gravitate towards the 'moral' choices. It's not bad writing. It's deliberate.
That does not mean that everyone has to like it. And i don't think the people who are upset about the change in this gameplay aspect are stupid or wrong.
We are all different people with different preferences, and i really am sorry if the game ended up being a disappointment for you. I know how it feels, and it does suck.
But i also do think it might be worth to examine the way people choose to phrase this complaining. The claim that kindness is somehow diminished in value if you aren't offered the choice to be cruel alongside it. I just think that, like. misses the point of what kindness is?
I know what those people mean when they say it, i just...fundamentally disagree with the sentiment. And i think phrasing it in this way is incredibly weird. sorry 🤷‍♂️
There is a better way to talk about this particular complaint. I just never actually SEE that being done. and i do think a lot of it comes from not actually engaging with the source material people are trying to criticize. Like, the person i sort of quoted earlier explicitly said they have not finished the game. If you never give something a chance in the first place, if all the information you have is second-hand, then i do not find your criticism valuable in any way. There is no substance to it, no backing. You are not proving a point, you're just chasing your own tail at that point. There isnt even a bone to chew. You've only heard of the bone. you havent actually experienced it.
Another part is people being too twisted up in the emotion of disappointment to actually see that they're not making compelling arguments, necessarily, and that they're actually being a tar pit.
I know not everyone thinks as much about the push towards dismissing the value of kindness for kindness' sake as i do. But like. It really is very weird to see this insistence that game bad bcs it didnt have the option to do a murder to an innocent person, or something. While also dismissing the horrible things we Are shown as 'not in your face enough'.
And honestly, personally? I dont love origins or any of the other ones specifically for the ability to choose the evil options. It's never even been a choice for me, because you can very well play the games without having to make the bad choices. theres always a workaround. And that workaround doesnt even harm u in any significant way. there isnt an actual like. terrible complexity here. I enjoy the dwarf politics quest a lot but ultimately, knowing the outcome? its EASY to choose Bhelen. Unless you're playing a dwarf noble origin, i guess. Rip Harrowmont 🙏 you would have made a terrible king.
And again, my personal opinion is not more right or wrong than that of someone who adored the prev dragon age games exactly because they allow you to make some terrible terrible moral choices.
At the end of the day. why are people still so pissed about a game that came out almost 6 months ago that many of them havent even played in the first place? Relax. take a walk if you can. Maybe move a snail out of the road if you find one. There tends to be a lot of them after it rains. Think about the ones that didn't make it. Try to find compassion for lives so easily dismissed. Maybe that will make you think about whether or not kindness on its own really is so lacking in value.
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scholarhect · 5 months ago
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lowkey i think people overpathologize cam’s whole thing, i think generally she’s reacting rationally, or at least about as well as you can ask from a person, to some really difficult stuff. like excuse her for acting weird when she was processing the very young death of the person she thought she was going to spend her life with, in an unfamiliar and unstable environment far from home, where her entire support system was a hypocritical dying woman she’d never meshed very well with and coronabeth tridentarius
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clowns0cks · 5 months ago
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another thing that's so compelling about the master is how no matter what they will accomplish they will never be satisfied. they will always need more. this goes either talking about the doctor (if they destroy the doctor, they end up without a purpose, without a goal. and their whole life revolves around realising this goal, so, finally making it would mean a life crisis. what do they do now that the doctor isn't there, when chasing the doctor was everything they ever did? They would live with eternal regret. However, if they never destroy the doctor, they will also be unsatisfied, as they always seek to complete their goal) or talking about power (the master has an obsession with power. they need to always be the leader, they are the one to give orders, they are the one that will destroy a planet just because it was fun. But power will never be enough. The universe is too big, living creatures are too many, planets are too many. They can't ever have it all. How many planets should they destroy/rule to finally feel content? it will never be enough. And even if they somehow do it, then what?) because they will always want more. need more. they're condemned to an unsatisfactory life no matter what
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kelocitta · 2 years ago
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In honor of the @rw-ship-showdown I wanted to write about Artihunter as someone who jokingly slapped them together pre-downpour and still thinks they are actually very compelling. Just not in the super soft love wins kinda way (Although I get why people like that more) And the only way I know how to do that is talking too much so heres a far too long slug essay-
Obviously the slugcats don't offer a ton of characterization but theres not nothing to work with. Their stories, whether by their roles in it or the overarching themes do provide a backbone to work with. Even gameplay itself can provide a bit. (for some more than others) Hunter, to me, is ultimately a story about selflessness. The goal is to revive Moon, which is very much an act of kindness from both Hunter and NSH. But the weight of that action is much more significant for Hunter- Hunter is deeply sick. They're on the clock, and for all their skill in combat none of that will ultimately help them to survive longer than their body can hold out. Moon is a close friend of NSH but that means little Hunter- Hunter really gets next to nothing out of helping them, and ultimately pays quiet a bit spending their limited time alive fighting to deliver that neuron so that someone else can live.
To spend ones limited days on helping another, in a game that very much stresses the unwavering cruelty of the world and nature- is pretty notable. (And you could even say that Hunter being the Hardmode of Rain World adds another layer to this)
And then we have Artificer. A storyline that very much stands out to people as more… villainous (so to speak) than the other slugcats. Artificer's story covers a lot of things. Trauma, violence, revenge, etc. Revenge is a bit of a selfish desire- That need to see someone hurt as they have hurt you. A punishment that ultimately does not fix whatever harm was done- but feels good to see because you were hurt and now those responsible share that pain.
Artificer's actions are founded in that need for revenge, their pups killed for overstepping boundaries they didn't know existed. Is it not fair for them to be angry at that, to punish the scavengers for their violence with their own? Why should the scavengers ever be forgiven when they and their pups were not? And that's how you get that loop- Harm for harm over and over.
The original action has been lost in a spiral of violence for violence. And here stands Artificer- their very spirit scarred. Not just because they sought revenge, but because they never ceased trying to scratch that itch for violence as an answer. Artificer only has two paths for their story- killing the scavenger king (Someone who, really, has little to do with the original 'crime' of the scavengers, but represents an important individual to them- as did the slugpups to Artificer), locking themselves as karma one for good and spending the rest of their life chasing creatures that no longer even fight back in a warped sense of closure- or to dissolve themselves in the acids of the void sea because they're too far gone to find any real peace.
They can't meaningfully recover from that state, not alone, twisting in on themselves. Even if they halt their actions, they've been using violence as a feeble defense against their own pain- violence that no longer has any real direction or basis. Artificer gets no real closure from killing the scavenger king. All they can do is continue the cycle, or try to scrub it away. No real peace in a prison of their own making. So you have a creature, who even with a strict timer on their life- a body that will crumble to disease, spends its last bit of time on saving another. And another who was so caught up in the pain of loss that were eaten alive by their own anger, poisoned their own soul on such a deep level even self-proclaimed gods have no solution for them. What peace can they offer each other? For Hunter, its only a fleeting moment of happiness- of selfish love, before their own body fails them. A bit of indulgence in something for themself. For Artificer, its a single, comforting thread to ground them again, something tangible to protect and care about again. But thats a thread that will ultimately be snapped under the cruel indifference of the world. Hunters timer will tick down regardless of if it takes another with it. Its a tragedy- its doomed to end badly. Whatever good it offers to either of them to find each other will only provide the fleeting comfort of a band-aid that will be ripped away too early. But all that can be worth indulging in anyway, if only for the moment. It doesn't change the ending, but the ending was never going to be happy. Its can so yuri
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spacetimeaccordionfolder · 27 days ago
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Be Warned, for I have free time this evening and Thoughts about the Characters. Unfortunately my wrists are also kind of achey and tired but! I shall take medication for that and persevere!
Anyway, How about Tahraim. Our favorite Blue and Orange Morality guy. I've been thinking about the fact that he was there the entire time in Zuurith.
OKay Characters like him intrigue me so much. Like. He's helping our protagonists because their goals align. But also, we can't get too comfy. He's not.... malevolent persay, but also. People are projects.
Let's go through what we know. Start at the very beginning. I've heard that's a very good place to start.
Arc 1, chapter 12! Tynan, the Storm of Terror is making his way towards the City of Vash. Vash asks Tahraim if he can forge Vash a weapon so he can fight Tynan to keep his city safe. "Tahraim considered his request for what Vash considered to be a unnecessarily long time" (a line I love so very much. the repeat of considered. what we learn about Tahraim first from that line itself and then from the reveal that Tahraim's telling the story.) before giving Vash the ingot of starmetal and blue crystal, and telling Vash he "could forge him his weapon but only after Vash had made the materials his own." Vash spends three days trying to understand what Tahraim meant, before (in arguably a moment of desperation) slipping his soul inside the metal, reforging his body, and beating Tynan. Then he brings the metal back to Tahraim for him to make into a sword. When Caliban asks about that, why he didn't just make the sword in the first place, Tahraim says,
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"Because if I had, I'd have deprived him of a much better weapon." Caliban points out that the city of Vash could have died if Vash hadn't figured it out. Tahraim says, "Weapons can only be forged in fire," and a few panels later, "I can give you your weapon in time. But if I interfere now - it will never become what you need it to be."
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"If you want him to do the impossible, we need him to believe he can."
The next time we see Tahraim, it's chapter 16. And Dainix, who we know to be the person Caliban and Tahraim are talking about here, is having a very bad time (partly because Caliban poked at him earlier in disguise but we'll get to that later). And Tahraim appears and helps Dainix back from the ledge he's on, helps him control his abilities, and is just great for emotional catharsis. I mean:
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I love "if you burn, how can you help them?" so much. It's what Dainix needed to hear at that moment. The hand holding. Dainix can't hurt Tahraim; he's literally a god of forging. Dainix also likely hasn't had someone just tenderly hold his hand since he was exiled. He helps Dainix work through what he's feeling, and then gives a bit of advice on fighting Tynan before Dainix leaves.
Scene change to Erin figuring out buying time and then to Alinua breaking open the prison and having a crisis about Life using her/ not letting her die/ not helping her. (and then Theia taking the archive out of the city) Cut back to Tahraim now looking at the tree Alinua grew. There, Caliban and Tahraim compare notes ("You got him all riled up before the fight, didn't you?" "You mean how I heated your material so you could smith it into shape?") and sass Zuurith, before Caliban says "Just leave him, we got what we needed." Caliban isn't seen again until Arc 2 chapter 4.
So let's pretend it's the early in year 2022. And you're reading Comic Aurora. If someone asked you what you thought of Tahraim, you'd probably mention he's funny, seems to like helping people, and views everything through the lens of shaping the best thing out of it. But he's a good guy. We've seen bad guys in Aurora. We've seen ones who think they are the hero of the story, like Zuurith, Jolon, and the Collector. We've seen ones who know they're bad and don't care, like Tynan. Situational Antagonists like Shrike, who knows she's not the best but also is just surviving. Falst himself was temporarily a situational antagonist. There's the Void Dragon. We've seen bad guys and malevolent gods, and Tahraim is on the same side as the good guys.
And then chapter 18. And it's less "he's a good guy" and more "his goals currently align with ours."
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Some time ago, The Collector asked Tahraim to forge her a soul stealing dagger. Tahraim, like when Vash asked him for a weapon to fight a storm, and turned her down, "since [he] was worried she'd continue to stagnate if [he] gave her an easy shortcut to power." Not "Oh creating that would be a bad idea" No, he turns her down so she has to figure things out herself.
The 1.18.18 comment section was I think the first time I really saw blue and orange morality really discussed. MAN that page was crazy.
Tahraim is a teacher. He guides people towards, like how one might refine a weapon. He takes pride in his work. If giving aid might cause one to not learn something greater, then he holds back. Offers hints instead. He gave Vash starmetal and a crystal, told him to make those his own, and let Vash think it through. He and Caliban let Dainix stay in the prison for a year so Dainix wouldn't feel like he didn't have any choice in leaving, and then helped Dainix work through huge explosion of Soulfire in the arena. This same nature applies to people like the Collector, who's .... let's say scholarship he likely knew about, letting her develop her own way to capture souls so she wouldn't stagnate and would grow.
Let's look back at that first conversation again:
"Because if I had, I'd have deprived him of a much better weapon... Weapons can only be forged in fire... People temper at a more complicated pace than metal... If you want him to do the impossible, we need him to believe he can."
Vash spends three days frustrated trying to find a way to protect his people. He endured hours of fighting Tynan, losing an arm and an eye, till he reforged himself around the starmetal. Yes, he gained a sword, a better understanding of himself, but he went through pain to do that. Dainix spent a year forced to fight in an arena. He tamped down his fury and his guilt of hurting others, clung to his last principle of not fighting to kill till it left his body cracked, with inner flames spilling out. Yes, he now knows more about what he is, is able to fight more, feels like he can do the impossible, but oh the pain he went through.
Tahraim was in Zuurith during the Tynan fight. He might not have really been paying attention to our heroes other than Dainix, but he was there.
Tahraim watched as the tree broke the prison. As Alinua wrestled with her abilities, and what Life wanted from her. "I don't think I can do this in time. But you can... You can save them! Just use me!"... "She won't help me. But she won't let me die either."
Tahraim was well aware of the fight between Kendal and Tynan. And he doesn't interfere until Tynan is defeated. Until Kendal has started to figure out the starfire in the blade, and summoned Vash. Tahraim waits to show up till after everyone has done everything they can, till after Vash has given Zuurith an ultimatum.
Tahraim was at Zuurith the entire time. And he didn't interfere in the Tynan fight till every one of our heroes (and also Zuurith) had grown, stretched their capabilities, or made steps toward something new.
While I don't think Caliban and Tahraim's hidden plan is going to be harmful to the world, I do think I need to remind myself to be wary. Caliban and Tahraim aren't known for being voluntarily helpful. As Kendal mentions in arc 2, chapter 4, everyone who isn't a project is a tool.
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A Trickster God and a Divine Smith have a plan. The plan thankfully seems to involve helping our heroes. At least for now.
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thecryptidbard · 1 year ago
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ALSO can we talk about Hetty’s reaction after Flower tells her “You’re a good friend”???
Think about where she was at this point last year—having also just revealed a massive secret, one that almost irrevocably ruined one of her oldest friendships. She’d admitted in Ghost Court that friends were not something she’d ever had in life—something she hasalso just reiterated moments ago to Sam and Isaac, that one of the reasons she felt so trapped and alone and without options at the end of her life was because she had no friends.
Think about how far we’ve seen her come; in season one, it’s huge growth for her that after Jay’s possession, she admits to the other ghosts that she missed them. Or season two, how in a very un-Hetty move she’s willing to swallow her pride and apologize to Nigel (even though she’s sure she isn’t in the wrong!) for the sake of saving her friendship with Isaac. Or even earlier this season, how closely she’s clinging to Alberta in so many of the episodes, because she’s so grateful she got her friend back after being so close to losing her that she doesn’t even want to be physically separated from her.
And then now, she’s just once again revealed a secret she’s kept for well over a hundred years, in order to save Flower. She’s kept this part of herself from everyone for so long, and the very second she sees that Flower is securely out of the hole, she turns her back to everyone to gather herself and then bolts.
Isaac and Sam make her see that, yes objectively she has people here for her now like she never had in life, but Flower coming in and thanking her is when she actually gets to see and experience the reality of how different her existence is now. “You’re a good friend,” she says, and it might be the first time someone has ever said that to her. And Hetty just looks up at Flower so surprised in that moment, and so heartbreakingly hopeful, because I genuinely think that until right then, she really hadn’t considered it like that before; she just knew that Flower was in trouble and that she had to help her whatever the personal cost, because not saving her wasn’t even an option.
So much of the ghosts’ relationships, especially early on, were transactional, and, especially in Hetty’s case, built around enforcing particular power dynamics: accruing a wealth of back rubs, extorting Pete’s TV time before signing Elias’s contract, or any of the countless occasions she brought up her status as ‘lady of the house’. So the fact that she makes this sacrifice that feels like a loss of power to her is in and of itself big; but Flower acknowledging that, and making sure Hetty herself sees it too, by calling her a good friend—it’s a whole different level of meaningful.
She doesn’t just thank Hetty. She makes sure that she sees what her actions mean to her. And Hetty is so taken aback by it, because Flower saying this to her and meaning it is a gift she was absolutely unprepared for; a “good friend” is not something Hetty has ever known herself to be, up until now. But she very badly wants for it to be true.
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iwritenarrativesandstuff · 11 months ago
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See, I think Charles’ annoyance and frustration with the Cat King really was just pure protectiveness and not any kind of jealousy - it’s understandable, because Edwin is not telling him what happened even though something clearly did, which is not typical for them. Edwin doesn’t usually hide things like this! Of course he’s worried!
Charles’ reaction to Monty, on the other hand, is difficult to explain in a way that isn’t jealousy. You could say he’s being protective again, but Charles shows no sign of distrust in Monty, and had no idea of who Monty was or that he might betray them - he was actually very chill with him, except in a select few specific scenes. You could say he just doesn’t like him because he got brushed off during their first meeting, but not only does that not seem like Charles at all, it also doesn’t make sense, since, again, in most instances, Charles is genuinely friendly and is happy when Monty compliments him and seems to have come around to liking him (it completely flies over his head that this is a petty jab at Edwin on Monty’s part but oh well hahaha). You could say it changes up their status quo a bit and that bothers Charles. I do think this bothers him a bit, but I think, unlike Edwin, Charles’ fear and frustration here is directed more at situations (the Cat King whisking him away for several hours, as an example) than others. He’s sociable and likes being able to talk to new people. There’s absolutely no way he’d begrudge Edwin doing the same - and he doesn’t… with Niko. Edwin and Niko hit it off and become very close and that never bothers Charles at all. He’s incredibly endeared to her, just like the rest, and for the most part, he’s chill with Monty too, and smiles pretty knowingly when Edwin confesses to him having awakened some feelings. The only exceptions, where he shows definite annoyance, are when Monty first shows up and gets really in Edwin’s personal space to show him the astrology chart he made, and when Edwin is so sucked into the book Monty gave him that he doesn’t hear that Charles is talking to him, to which he annoyedly says that they seem to have been “spending a lot of time together”.
You could say he’s unused to having anyone get in Edwin’s personal space like that, but, again, Niko. She’s very tactile with him and he doesn’t seem to mind all that much; they spend time together watching things. If it was just someone getting close with Edwin in general, not only would that be weirdly possessive for the character, but it would also mean he would show discomfort with anyone getting close, I think. Does Charles see Monty as more of a potential threat than Niko, seeing as he knows her and her personality and doesn’t know Monty? Well, maybe, but again, Charles shows no sign of distrusting Monty at all.
Monty is a boy. Okay. So something about seeing Edwin so close to a boy that is not him, getting lost in thought over something this boy gave him, really rubs Charles the wrong way. Charles appears to catch on just as quickly as anyone else that there is something (or it looks like something) between Edwin and Monty. He is not surprised when Edwin comes out to him in episode 6, and in fact, seems to have just been waiting for him to verbalize it. He smiles and is not bothered at all by Edwin showing (what he thinks is) a romantic interest in Monty - he just doesn’t like it when Monty clearly shows a romantic interest in Edwin. Um. Well. Well.
Charles is jealous. I really don’t know what else to say.
Look, when I first watched this show, I actually didn’t want them to end up together romantically - I love the idea of one having fallen in love with another who does not reciprocate and the two of them still loving each other just as much. That Edwin’s confession made them closer instead of making things awkward is such a beautiful outcome to this build up and I absolutely love it. However. On my two rewatches, I caught a lot more little details, and I think it would be very strange if the show did not follow up on this. That, plus the deliberate quality of these “jealousy” moments where the camera focuses on him, Charles’ Orpheus coding throughout the show, the fact that Edwin’s arc was far more about realizing his feelings for Charles specifically than just coming to terms with his sexuality, and that even the actors admit that Charles’ response to the confession kind of left things open, it really seems to me like the path leads to a romantic endgame for them, or at the very least, that this possibility will be explored in more depth.
**This is just my reading of it. Please do not use this post as a gotcha for anyone who loves them as a platonic duo or people who really love Crystal and Charles together (because let’s face it, they’re super cute too). I’m just doing my rambles. As per usual.
#listen this got really long and I’m sorry but I wanted to be sure I covered all my bases because#I flat out hate the old argument of ‘it (romance) is the only possible explanation!’ with regards to strong bonds#because it so often invalidates strong platonic expressions of love#but… *gestures above*#they’re going to need to address this at some point I think#I really hope though that if the relationship becomes more romantic#that this does not happen in season 2 but in season 3 or something#make it a good build and emphasize the importance of their existing platonic bond#I want their bond to continue to change and grow closer via their friendship first before evolving into romantic tension :)#(also I have faith in these writers but I’ll always be worried about what happens to Crystal with all this. pls don’t cast her aside…)#the smart thing would be to have Crystal have more of the main plot action and Charles more of the feelings arc#for season 2. that’s what I’m hoping#not just any romance or jealousy for Charles but also feelings around his family and dad and his wants and fears and all that#storyrambles#this got away from me again haha#should I use my analysis tag? does this count??? …I’m using it. ->#call me ace detective the way I am ace. and also a detective.#dead boy detectives#I also love the idea of a canon gay couple in an overall queer narrative because that’s beautiful#please I want it to happen#charles rowland#edwin payne#payneland#dbda meta#dbda spoilers
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lesbianwyllravengard · 1 year ago
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I love how whenever I see people discuss wyllstarion, in the context of "justifying" why one ships it, there's always that of why Astarion would love Wyll, extensively; bringing up that Astarion said he used to dream of marrying men like Wyll, or that Astarion said wants to feed off of Wyll, or that Astarion would want someone chivalrous and kind who would put his needs first and who would respect his boundaries and his past. Astarion is the fave white boy and so he's shipped with many different people, and this is how people who ship wyllstarion express why he'd choose Wyll. But I almost never see extensive explanation of why Wyll would love Astarion, because of course he would. Of course he'd love Astarion.
#THIS IS JUST AN OBSERVATION oh strangers on the internet NOT an ANALYSIS. I'm smarter than this.#Also check my reblog for more explanation bc I think ppl are misunderstanding lol#Sorry not to post about gay boys on main but I think about them a lot#Shadowzel are my faves I promise this was just on my mind#More in tags if you'd like to read them#Wyllstarion#wyll ravengard#astarion#Bg3#baldur's gate 3#baldurs gate 3#bg3 wyll#bg3 astarion#astarion x wyll#wyll x astarion#Something something Wyll loves as easy as breathing and Astarion doesn't need to breathe but he still does#The reasons why Astarion clings to what he does and wanting Wyll who would keep fighting to hold onto what he loves#And Wyll holds on like it's second nature. Like he thinks it's his only choice.#The duality of people needing to explain why Astarion would love Wyll#while also acknowledging that Astarion wouldn't accept that Wyll loves him back without enough reasons#In fics Astarion needing Wyll to spell it all out for him while people acknowledge in discussion that Wyll just loves him. Of course he doe#there's obviously more to the appeal of them than just this of course#Wyll being the monster hunter who fell for a monster#Astarion having been soulless under cazador's control and technically heartless because his doesn't beat#but Wyll's does so freely#like of course Wyll would love Astarion. kind gentle gracious too-forgiving-for-his-own-good respectful loving Wyll#but astarion needs convincing that he has anything worth loving#and wyll would do it#he'd want to do it#Wyll finding no fault in anyone but himself and Astarion snapping him out of it with his no-nonsense ways
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starscreamingg · 8 months ago
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Detroit Become Human and why does this game decide that the problem in society is individual people treating androids poorly because those androids are choking them out of the workforce and NOT the corporations and governments who deliberately designed the androids to do this
#AUGHHGHH#I promise you dbh is still one of my favourite games I really do#But ohhhhhhhjghh my GODDDD it makes me mad#Like ESPECIALLY this year. With artists and writers being so fucked by ai#Like the game has less than no sympathy for people who were screwed over by cyberlife deciding their labour wasn't worth anything#Like everybody has to be a strawman. Everybody has to be the violent 'android bad because (some vague reason that draws on the#'immigrants are stealing our jobs' line despite the fact that these things aren't equivalent at all)#Like yes. Robots being placed in positions where a real human would be paid a real wage to do that job is bad. This is a bad thing#But the game. Does not CARE#It's so morally neutral for cyberlife to be allowed to mass produce androids in the middle of a poverty epidemic that they created#It's fine! Says Detroit Become Human because everyone rendered homeless or struggling by this company's actions is a violent drug addict#Or something#It's like HUH#H U H#This game was so enamoured with it's weird bad civil rights allegory that it forgot that people do actually need jobs to uh. Pay to live#Because things are hell#And I think it could've been SO much better if the game acknowledged this AS WELL as acknowledging that no android chose this#Like a fresh deviant didn't ask to cause a real person to not have a job. The company who made them did#But dbh doesn't care. Cyberlife is morally neutral in this. I swear#Loses my mind this game is such a mess#Uhhh if anyone's reading this please don't get mad at me I promise I do really love this game. Like this game is the reason I#Met the love of my life. I am physically incapable of hating this game#I just think it's so worth discussing the ways it fails in (what I think is) a constructive manner#detroit become human#game analysis#I guess#If anyone has any contributions or disagrees with me I would LOVE love to hear. Genuinely I love talking about things like this#Essay in tags
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wackywatchdotcom · 2 months ago
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got reminded of it ... but i think about the symbolism of jax' model a lot bc i think its subtle!!! but its there
and i think the crux of it is that jax' model is very much a prey animal, something that contradicts his general tendency for reckless, mean bullshit. there could be something there about him having front-facing eyes too. and iirc gooseworx said the farm was a lie which i do take into account but also i think it helps w his generally very 'natural' or real-world-nature design components and ideas being evoked. he has clothes and these clothes are very minimal and hes a real animal fairly closely associated with farming or hunting and is very humanlike and his pocket just Has Mulch in it. even if the farm isnt real theres definitely something his design is evoking here
that and an idea ive thought of is that rabbits are VERY much animals that operate on instinct. they do a lot of things based on an immediate need, typically for survival, at least in the wild. and i dont know if id describe jax as fearful (some could argue he is in his own way, which i dont disagree with, but i think the implications can be a bit loaded- but theres many ways a person can be fearful) but he definitely operates on what he immediately wants. he wants to have fun. so he DOES. it doesnt matter what that entails. he wants control, so he takes it out on the others. it doesnt matter what that entails. etc etc. hes also running from something and i think the image of a rabbit fits that well
i think its deliberate that jax is the only design that actually revolves around an animal that we see. theres dobby and that worm on a string in the back but of the main cast its ALL humans or items, jax is the only one whos an animal (and probably still intended to be toy-like, but none of the others have distinct animals theyre meant to be). and it feels purposeful in a way i genuinely think about a lot. i cant place what its implying for certain because i genuinely dont think we have enough information on jax to fully understand his thought processes, but it does make him very connected to the real world, but in a distant way
#tadc#why not it can go in the tag#also i think everyone and their mom has pointed out the deliberate allusion to cartoon rabbits#which i think helps to highlight his nature as like... a similar 'trickster' sort of character#add into that my idea that each of the cast members is like. idk if deconstruction is the right word?#but something of that sort but for cartoon character archetypes#jax being the sly 'cool' guy prone to slapstick and mischief#he highlights how much that kinda person would actually SUCK as a real person#but thats a diff analysis for another time#noting it as another concept for a hypothetical video essay LOL#circus discussion#im getting a better sense of a new schedule so hopefully i can be a bit more active#also i still need to make my color theory for this show... blues and greens man....#i need to figure out what purple and pinks are for#hm.... zooble and jax as the only one with pinks in there design#plus zooble never having consistent colors other than pink and yellow... hmm#sorry im getting off track LOL#i think many characters on this show are rife for analysis and discussion... and jax is very#hes not my favorite character (thatd be pomni which anyone whos seen me could tell HAHA)#but i think hes one of the most fun to discuss/analyze. he has a lot going on and a lot of it is more abstract than the other characters#given the lack of information we have on him so far#i think its deliberate hes like. one of the most frequently evoked characters by the show. if that sentence makes actual sense#point is that i think other charatcers are super important plot wise or development wise etc etc#but jax feels more important symbolically. hes most important to themes in the show#makes sense with him being the exception to so many things being established...#which i appreciate the show doing. its a very bold move and im excited to see how hes handled down the line
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autumnwhistles · 4 months ago
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Lyric Breakdown in my Last Life (mainly Martyn-centric) song, "Corners of the World"
youtube
'Abridged' version here, and longer analysis (ft. a lot of Martyn character analysis... and also the full lyrics I'm actually talking about) under the cut.
"I'll lie, double cross to best them all" is yet again a reference to a line from Martyn's Last Life teaser poem ("Surpass them all/Take friends for foes"), which was from the perspective of the Watchers (and was previously referenced by them in the first song, Middle of Nowhere). Martyn using this phrasing hints that the Watchers already hold some influence over him, hence the outline of the lyrics flashing purple in the video!
"Walls, corners, edges" is taken from Martyn's speech after Ren's beheading (as is the title of this song, for the same reason):
"You took me in when I was a lowly traveler, going across the land, searching the four corners of this world. I learned there was nothing in this world for me – nothing but walls, corners, edges. And you know what, you showed me life. As much as I’ve taken it from you, you gave it back to me in buckets’ fulls."
The point here is that, after the events of 3rd Life, Martyn's reverted back to that previous worldview. That life he was shown clearly meant something to him, but ultimately, its price was far too high. So now, he's deliberately separating himself from a mindset that would allow him to care too much about others and feel that same pain: the world is walls and edges; the people in it are figures to use for his own benefit, not to care about; the world does not hold those buckets' fulls of life. As we see with his reactions to the Southlands' fall, he doesn't really end up being successful in this (and it's a major topic of exploration throughout the musical) – but it doesn't mean he doesn't want or try to be.
Of course, the wordplay this verse ("You'll be cornered in the corners, and on edge in many more/And walls you'll build and walls you'll raise(/raze), and walls will fall in war") is to establish Martyn's strengths in that area. Getting the voice right is an important part of musical characterisation too!
"Keep it a void you're fighting for" is either dramatic irony or foreshadowing depending on how much you know of his lore. Martyn's only referring to not fighting for anyone else's sake here, but between the seasons the players do spend their time falling through the void (while unconscious) – regardless of whether they win or lose. By fighting to win, you are just fighting for that same void... which of course, Martyn doesn't know (because surely winning means something). If he knew nothing changes after you win, the incentive to win would be much weaker, and I'd argue we do see that in c!Martyn post-Limited Life. But despite his cynicism and distrust, he's still naïve to this particular cruelty of the world... :) i mean lore-wise if you win a fragment of your soul does get protected but 1) no bearing on last life and so on this musical whatsoever, and 2) how is c!martyn supposed to know that even after his win
"Careful with the name you pick/Don't want it to get flamed" is (as the editing hopefully makes clear) a pun – 'you don't want your name to be made fun of', and 'your tree fort is flammable'. This is again meant to establish Martyn's quick wit as well as progressing the song/storyline, and as well as showing us him messing with people, which he very much likes to do! (I am also aware Cleo was the one who informed Lizzie, but I had to streamline various things for the sake of the medium – this is both a Martyn character establishment song and an intro to the world and various figures in it, so it's easier if Martyn is the one who introduces that to those figures (and for us to get more information about Martyn based on how he interacts with them). And Lizzie's reaction to that information was something I wanted to keep in)
Of course Skizz and Etho were in the Red Army too, Martyn's just being cheeky/faking indignation here (if there'd been space, I'd have given Skizz a line of protest, but from a musical standpoint I preferred the instant transition into Scar's section). But guys.... BEST/Dogwarts parallels... guys.....
"(...)I'll lead, not play a pawn"/"(...)little pawn" (sung simultaneously, the first by Martyn and the second by the Watchers) is a callback to the first song, Middle of Nowhere, in which there's a section of randomised lives being given out. The first line there is "Four for the traitor, four for the pawn", and this confirms/establishes 'the pawn' as referring to Martyn (referencing what he's treated as by the Watchers). Note that here Martyn's desire 'to lead' refers to being in control of his actions and not deferring to anyone, not specifically to leading an alliance. Of course, Martyn's part is full of dramatic irony on his behalf :)
Those are the 'flashier' lines and word choices I especially wanted to highlight. Now, for the version with way more character analysis!
As mentioned, Corners of the World is Martyn's – our main character's – introductory song. Regardless of whether it counts as an 'I Want' song or not (it's a bit nebulous, because yes, he does express things he wants – to win, to be in contol of his own actions and not at others' whims. But for me, the more important part of the song is what he doesn't want to do, what things he's distancing himself from that he's presumably done before, and the questions and implications that arise from that. And the core of that is explored slightly later on), it's going to be our first impression of him as a character. The traits and worldview established here will be viewed as important, and will form the basis of his arc throughout the musical.
Because of that, the two verses focus on establishing that inital worldview (as well as establishing what he's aiming for):
MARTYN (Verse 1) Right, here I go again — new world, another start. New chance to see who’ll reach the end, and who will fall apart Well, won’t be me – this time I’ll be the very last to fall No care for cost, I’ll lie, double cross to best them all
So we know he wants to survive and win the game (especially after not doing so last time), we know he's willing to play dirty to achieve that and definitely should not be trusted. We know he's under no impression that this is anything other than a death game (or death match, to quote his Limited Life self) – he doesn't hide from the knowledge that people will fall apart, that only one person will be left standing. Importantly, this means he's playing the game exactly as intended, with no intentions of defying it or even deviating slightly* from what the first song has expressed to be the goal (to 'best'/'surpass' everyone else). Even as he expresses the wish to play for himself, he's already committed himself to following others' unseen rules.
Walls, corners, edges, I’ve been this way before. You’ll be cornered in the corners, and on edge in many more; And walls you’ll build and walls you’ll raise(/raze) and walls will fall in war, Kinship destroyed, so keep it a void you’re fighting for.
And here we get an exploration of Martyn's mindset in more detail. I've touched on this already, but a major point of exploration throughout the musical is Martyn's relashionship to emotional attachment – he's coming right off the bat of Ren's death in 3rd Life, which "broke" him and made him play more selfishly since (both statements taken from the LimLife lore stream), and he is someone who tends keep his distance and who'll prioritise himself over allies whenever things get dicey. But the "life" that closeness gave him back in 3rd Life was still clearly important to that version of him, and he does inadvertently (and unwillingly) start chasing that again this season – ending up growing close to the Southlanders (bar Grian) despite his efforts, enough to hallucinate them and be manipulated by the Voice's(/Watchers') false promise to bring them back to life if he follows its commads (in a moment where he expresses resistance to following its commands, and where the Voice is clearly distressing him). LL Episode 8 intro my beloved...
Still, that's to come. At the start of Last Life, he's firmly in a reactionary mindset to the events of 3rd Life, separating himself from that life and that version of him. 3rd Life was a failure on his part (in addition to the emotional damage, but he's trying to separate himself from that side of things and to focus purely on the win), and he's absolutely not wasting this new chance at victory.
So corner to corner, I’ll keep wandering on, Border to border, through woods, through caves, through spawn, Sure, laugh with some, don’t keep it glum, so long as lines are drawn Forego the rest, and don’t invest, just keep on wandering- WATCHERS Wandering, wandering MARTYN -on.
It's Watcher manipulation time, encouraging unhealthy mindsets that help them further their own aims! The more untied he is, the easier he'll be for them to play (less loyalties to others –> the more likely he is to rely on the Voice, and the less resistance there is to doing certain things that might involve those connections). Yes, emotional connections would mean more emotional pain (and so more negative emotions for them to feed on) in the future, but Martyn's very resistant to that idea right now, so it wouldn't do much to push it. They do encourage emotional connections later, though (heavily pushing him towards Ren for example, and note that that's only once it would mean Martyn betraying his own alliance (which would mean more emotional pain for someone, regardless of its impacts on Martyn himself. Or it would've been if that was revealed)).
There's another important part here, though. After all the 'allies won't help you' etc in the first two verses, I wanted to make clear that Martyn's not against being around people, far from it – he's almost constantly around people, just not generally around the same ones for an extended period of time – it's just the emotional investment he's trying to avoid. He is a very social player, he does enjoy joking and/or messing around with others and does it constantly, that's also an important aspect to him (he's a very "you talk a lot but never say anything" type of person**). So "sure, laugh with some, don't keep it glum" is a very important line!
LIZZIE Welcome, oh welcome to my tree fort, yet unnamed. MARTYN Be careful with that name you pick — don’t want it to get… flamed. LIZZIE …Ah. They won’t demean A fellow green? …Your lives? MARTYN That’s mine to know Is that a tower over there? See you, I’ve got to go!
And immediately, here's an example of Martyn actually messing with someone (as a new player, Lizzie is fun to tease)! His "don't want it to get flamed" triples as that, as a wordplay demonstration, and as another recognition that they are living in a world where people will inevitably turn on each other. If something's flammable, it will be burned.
Lizzie's characterisation here is meant to show her as someone who wants to do her best and is establishing herself, but is unsure/nervous about how the game will unfold due to having had no past experience (, the '...your lives?' comment is prompted by the momentary urge to want to know how close Martyn is to turning Red and potentially burning down her tree fort) There is the element of naïvité coming from not having lived through a previous series, too – not thinking about how badly having a flammable base may end, 'they won't demean a fellow green' again here, etc.
Because this verse is a dialogue, I focused a lot more on trying to keep the character's voices true to themselves as well. With Lizzie, the "Welcome, oh [welcome]" is moreso there to suit the 'fairy queen' persona she was going for, but the "tree fort... yet unnamed" would be something she'd say for humour's sake, in her particular style which I cannot for the life of me describe; her 'ah' would be quite deadpan in that way too (again, not sure which words to use to describe it). With Martyn we have the aforementioned wordplay, but also his method of slipping out of situations that go in directions he wants to avoid... which is to pretend to get distracted by something else, promptly change the subject to that thing, and run off (a clear example of this is in Wild Life when Scott is questioning him about his powers, and he conveniently gets 'distracted' by a zombified Skizz dying in the distance instead (~17:30 in his vid). Maybe not the smoothest of getaways... but a habit nonetheless).
TEAM BEST BEST will be the best, and we’ll show em what we got With our matching shields, and our towering snow fort MARTYN Hold on a sec, where’s your respect? BDUBS Respect? MARTYN Yeah, that’s my bit! Same shields? Snow? A world ago? With Ren and- fine, have it
Again, this verse is largely leaning into character voices and interactions. BEST do initally set out to be the heroes of the server (eg by recovering the enchanting table and returning it to the server), and do have some very loud/enthiusiastic figures within their ranks (Bdubs and Skizz), so the tone of their lyrics is meant to reflect this (though the instrumentation, which we'll talk about in a different post, does a lot of this work as well). Of course you also have Etho who's the complete opposite of course (and Tango somewhere in the middle), but it's the louder voices that are going to be heard in the interactions so it's their side of things I'm portraying. And, as mentioned before, we also have Martyn completely going into mock-offense mode.
SCAR/BEST/LIZZIE/MARTYN No matter if you're in your sixes or twos/Let's find some ore to- I'll sell you an offer you/-mine cannot refuse/It'll be the fairy fort! Crystals for fleeing,/I'm fine just to chat Crystals for flame,/Not falling for that! Survival's the ALL Name of the game!
Pretty self-explanatory here, with Martyn not buying into Scar's deals and other alliances going about their lives. BEST heading down to mine is set-up for the next song (aptly named "Down In The Mines"), in which Bdubs reveals he was cursed with the Boogeyman curse while down there, narrating his experiences in the form of a ghost story.
SCAR/BEST/LIZZIE/MARTYN Corner to corner, I'll just keep on wandering, wandering on/Yes, join the fairy fort, I'd love to have you here!/BEST will be the best, with our diamonds and our gold We can build a secret passageway so we'll always be near!/Put us to the test, and you'll see that we won't fold/A crystal or spell, oh, Joel, you'd help me sell?/Through woods, through caves- -But still for my sake I probably should find a team: it would do me some-/We'll aid each other when we need, together we will succeed, oh-/Put us to the test and you'll see that we'll do-/Goody! Magical Mountain we'll be! ALL (including Cleo, BigB and Joel, who are now onstage with their respective alliances) Good – It's this I've understood!*
Here we see the different players' attitudes to playing the game, and what they've "understood" about how to play it, as well as more alliances forming. Nothing much to say about Scar and Martyn here (aside from Martyn expressing the fact that he does want to be part of an alliance for numbers' sake, which we'll build more on in Song 4 (A(ha)lliances) when the Southlands are formed; and also continuing the thread that he sees others as figures he can use to benefit himself. Maybe there were things to say about Martyn here!), but a lot of Team BEST's part is foreshadowing ("put us to the text and you'll see that we won't fold"... they will fold. They will) in addition to contuining the 'server heroes' thread from earlier. Meanwhile, Lizzie's part continues to show her as a player who hasn't experienced the way the server devolves into bloodshed, still having a pretty idealistic view about the co-operation between herself, BigB and Cleo without thinking about the ways they'll inevitably have to turn on each other if they get later in the game.
The part about the tunnel connecting the Fairy Fort to Cleo and BigB's base is taken directly from the first session (originally proposed as an escape tunnel, in the same conversation that Cleo pointed out that the fort was flammable).
UPPER WATCHERS/LOWER WATCHERS Oh, wander, wander on/Wonder, wonder On/When they'll all start to turn tails Wonder, wonder/Wander, wander When trust will yield to betrayals/On
I've mentioned it before, but the Watchers feed on negative emotions, which is why they run the Life series. This is one of the few times we see emotions from them, as they're very excited to see what chaos and carnage this new game they've formed will bring (which I took care to portray in my voice)!
WATCHERS/MARTYN Till the rest are gone.../Right, here I go again – I'll fight with my axe drawn* Oh, wander, little pawn/But, unlike then... I'll lead, not play a pawn.
I've talked about this in the 'abridged' version, so I won't repeat that. The other thing here is the axe being an obligatory Dogwarts reference (or, more accurately, an obligatory rhyme (with 'pawn') which gave way to a Dogwarts reference I took).
[End]
(You can hear the instrumental continue for a while – ideally, Martyn would talk for a bit with Scott, Pearl and Jimmy, but though I can act through singing I can't act through speech and I'm not subjecting viewers to that xD)
If you've read this, thank you so much! You can definitely chart me going more and more unhinged as this progressed...
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*eg by also wanting to find friendships, to be helpful while you can, etc, in addition to winning. There's no secondary aim there, aside from protecting himself from emotional harm.
**(to quote Martha from Doctor Who)
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