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agentrouka-blog · 3 years

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what do you think about obara?

Hi there!

Obara would be my third favorite Sand Snake after Sarella and Elia.

Obara Sand always walked too fast. She is chasing after something she can never catch, the prince had told his daughter once, in the captain's hearing. (AFFC, The Captain of Guards)

My goodness, what could it be?

Oh, right. Her mother. Her identity. Her sense of self.

She is the reason I can never ever truly like Oberyn.

“I am the whore's whelp, or had you forgotten?" (AFFC, The Captain of Guards)

No matter how heartbreaking Oberyn’s determination to get justice for Elia’s murder, I can never forgive him for this.

"The day my father came to claim me, my mother did not wish for me to go. 'She is a girl,' she said, 'and I do not think that she is yours. I had a thousand other men.' He tossed his spear at my feet and gave my mother the back of his hand across the face, so she began to weep. 'Girl or boy, we fight our battles,' he said, 'but the gods let us choose our weapons.' He pointed to the spear, then to my mother's tears, and I picked up the spear. 'I told you she was mine,' my father said, and took me. My mother drank herself to death within the year. They say that she was weeping as she died." Obara edged closer to the prince in his chair. "Let me use the spear; I ask no more."

(AFFC, The Captain of Guards)

Oberyn not only suddenly came to take her away from her mother. He did not come to offer her a “better life”, or do his duty to her as her father.

He made her choose.

He demonstrated an absolutely despicable abuse of power. He shows up out of the blue after presumably no contact and no support, assaults and humiliates her mother, a woman already on the very edge of society, and then makes Obara choose between this distorted image of victimized weakness, and his own power. Female tears vs. his phallic symbol. It’s a false dichotomy, the birth place of “not like other girls”, of internalized misogyny, of self-hatred.

She cannot have both. She cannot love both. She must disdain one to reap any benefit from the other. It is a horrifying violation. He erases half of her identity by dragging it through the dirt and creating a clear distinction between himself and his offer, and the woman who has been Obara’s caretaker all her life up to then. Her own mother. Her own sex.

We know that the young red-haired prostitute died trying to save her daughter, little Barra, while Robert had not lifted a finger to support them, and only had scorn for the girl’s choice of name. Was she weak?

Even her mother’s grief and desperate end is turned into a weapon against Obara, instead of proof of her mother’s love, it is proof of her mother’s supposed worthlessness. She must hate her mother because to stop would be to recognize that her father, her sole source of security in the world, was a monster to do this. She must cling to this phallic symbol of a weapon because Oberyn tainted all alternatives. The whore’s whelp she calls herself, spitting on her mother every time.

When she arrives at Sunspear to confront Doran about Oberyn’s death, she asks for troops and permission to sack Oldtown. Her hometown. For the wealth of the Hightowers, supposedly, but somehow her first instinct upon the news of her father’s demise is to attack the place she herself came from, her mother’s city. Begging to use the spear.

Perhaps it is the only way she knows how to express her pain, as Oberyn stole her tears. Self-destruction.

Even Nymeria understands there is a personal motive outside of Oberyn’s death.

“Obara would have me go to war.”

Nym laughed. “Yes, she wants to set the torch to Oldtown. She hates that city as much as our little sister loves it.” (AFFC, The Captain of Guards)

Obara is the only one of the elder Sand Snakes for whom GRRM constructs this kind of look back at her "acquisition" into the royal family, and I sincerely doubt that it is accidental. It is the one that matters, the one that is the most illustrative.

Nymeria has her noble Volantene mother’s beauty and bearing.

Tyene is said to carry her mother’s innocent appearance, and received a religious education at least thorough enough to enable her to “ingratiate herself” with the new high septon. It is, of course, a cynical facade.

Sarella proudly practices the marksmanship of the Summer Islanders of her mother’s heritage.

But Elia and Obara both show the real cracks that counter this hazy facade of the fierce Eight Sand Snakes, liberal Oberyn‘s loyal and independent daughters. They are all an extravagant self-indulgence on Oberyn’s part, created wherever he went and then picked up like a shiny tourist trinket. They all must revolve around him, the reflections of Oberyn in the looking glass of their mothers.

No," Elia broke in. "You're the one they'll want to ransom. You're the heir to Dorne, I'm just a bastard girl. Your father would give a chest of gold for you. My father's dead." (TWOW, Arianne II)

Elia, bless her, has her mother to lean on and still she keenly feels the legal reality of her position. Obara does not even have that.

Sarella out of all the elder Sand Snakes, seems to be the most emotionally independent. She is the only one NOT around all the others in Dorne, and while she follows her father’s footsteps in Oldtown, she practices her mother‘s traditional archery and emphasizes her.

Alleras smiled back at him. "I only buy for friends. And I am no lord's son, I've told you that. My mother was a trader." (AFFC, Prologue)

This healthier balance, this valuing regard for her mother’s heritage (unlike Tyene's pretense) is what makes Sarella truly remarkable to me. She is not hot-headed nor does she seem to be boiling with a thinly veiled fury. She does not seem to advocate for murder, but we see her muse about feeding the people. She is serene, like the black swans on the Godseye, like the swanships, with a steady hand and a sure intention. Whatever exactly that intention may be. Ironically, sexism forces Sarella into a masculine role, as well. But it is a deliberate mask, elegantly worn. Freely worn. Unlike Obara's struggle.

The character in whom I see most parallels with Obara Sand is Jon Snow in his current iteration.

Ned, well-meaning though he may have been, robbed Jon of half of his identity and left him with an image that is considered tainted by the world around him. His mother is as inaccassible as Obara’s mother, emotionally, though for different reasons. Their father’s choices left both of them emotionally crippled to a degree. One mother was erased by silence, rendered invisible. The other, worse, was erased by violent and verbal degradation.

Consequently, it is Obara we see the most seemingly “unhinged”, when she is introduced, the most overtly violent, the most “unfeminine”. This is not an expression of personal taste, nor a handy mask. It is a grim adherence to the choice she was offered.

She is almost thirty, and came to Dorne almost two decades earlier, well before Elia’s murder.

"It has been twenty years, or near enough to make no matter.” (AFFC, The Captain of Guards)

She was somewhere between Sansa’s and Arya’s current age when Elia was killed. Does she perceive the contradiction in Oberyn living for vengeance for Elia, when he treated her own mother not so very very differently? He did not kill her truly, but he erased her just the same, with a violent contempt. A "weak woman", with only tears for weapons, her child ripped from her.

If Obara sees it, she is not letting on. She craves violence. She craves an expression of power to put something where tears might have their place. The way she was taught.

Of course, it would be boring if that is where it was truly headed. Much like Aegon and Jon, much also like Asha Greyjoy who adapted to an extremely male-dominated society, Obara would probably benefit from turning away from her father's looming shadow to a certain degree. I have some hope that GRRM will make room to explore it.

Obara is given a quest of justice and distraction: Darkstar. "Beard him in his den", as Arianne travels to "beard the dragon".

Your Speculation here (by @sayruq) is extremely interesting, placing Obara in the line of defense of peaceful children at the watergardens. The same children she had dismissed earlier, like the child she was not allowed to be. Wielding that spear not for vengeance or self-glorification but in the way it should be wielded: to defend those soft weak things that are precious.

I really hope this is where it's headed, and I really hope she will find her peace in that role.

#obara sand #anti oberyn martell #sexism #violence #sand snakes

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hosts-of-valyria · 3 years

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In the skies of Westeros, Oberyn, Doran, Lyanna, Elia, Rhaenys, Aerys, Joffrey, Cersei, Ashara, Myrcella, Rhaella, Rhaegar and Aegon beat up the head of Eddard Stark and Robert Baratheon, "we'll beat the shit out of you two."

Orys Baratheon, Oberyn, Trystane, Joffrey, Aegon, Rhaegar, Aerys, Doran beat up Ned Stark's stupid head and the fat misogynist from Storm's End.

Elia, Lyanna and Rhaegar kicked Eddard's head with their boots through the clouds of Westeros, "Let's play a game dearest Ned, the game is called: We play football with your head for your lying and hypocritical shit!"

Robert ran away from Oberyn, Rhaenys, Rhaegar, Orys, Aegon, Trystane, Aerys, Joffrey, Doran, Lyanna, Elia, Myrcella, Cersei, Ashara and Aegon.

Jon's liberation and emancipation from Eddard Stark's lies, hypocrisy, his mistakes and Manipulation on Jon. Jon's Emancipation

Emancipation: Liberation from dependency; Independence; Equality and for social and legal equality

"He's his father's son. He is very similar to you, well done Rhaegar, well done Prince of Dragonstone. There's so much of you in Jon and that's nice to see. His successes in life are nice to look at, we are both very happy for him. His tremendous power is beautiful to behold. He's so successful and so powerful it's beautiful to look at", said Allyria and Arianne and smiled broadly.

"You have a good sunburn on your chest. Your scars look better", said Arianne and Allyria and smeared cream over Jon's scars, "you should have told Eddard Stark more often that you will not argue with him then he would have shown his true colors. You should have left earlier like Lyanna, you should have left Eddard Stark earlier for his mistakes and the behavior of the stinky fish of Riverrun.

The countless enemies of Eddard Stark and Robert Baratheon: Seven women: Allyria Dayne, Myrcella Lannister, Mya Baratheon, Cirilla Fiona Elen Riannon, Arianne Martell, Yennefer of Vengerberg or Margaery Tyrell. Seven women who recognize Eddard Stark's hypocrisy and manipulation over Jon

Yennefer of Vengerberg, Mya Baratheon, Margaery Tyrell, Allyria Dayne, Arianne Martell, Myrcella Lannister or Cirilla Fiona Elen Riannon

Only seven women recognize Eddard Stark's hypocrisy and manipulation on Jon. Ned Stark's lies, dark side, manipulation, hypocritical honor and flaws. The misogynist of Storm's End and the hypocrite of Winterfell: Seven women who can kill Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark for supporting Robert Baratheon, without political repercussions

There are women who realize that you're not a bastard, the two of us are part of it. There won't be many women who realize that, but there is acceptance for everything and we two are part of it."

Jon nodded, "I know. Then I would have seen the manipulation earlier. Way too much manipulation, lies and hypocritical honor, authoritarian asshole.", and Allyria and Arianne nodded and the three laughed aloud.

"High shot. Game, set and match", and Lyanna, Elia and Rhaegar shot Eddard's head in a high arc through the Westerosi heaven, "I have him", Cersei took Eddard's head with the chest and shot him to Oberyn, who fired a cross at Rhaegar and he gave a cross at Elia and she shot the head through the clouds, "Goal."

And in the sky of Westeros, Ned Stark's head rolled like a stupid stone and only lies, hypocritical shit and manipulation came out, "Bastard! Rebellious phase will not be tolerated! You're naughty like Lyanna, Elia, Rhaegar, Oberyn, Myrcella or Ashara. You must obey me. Kill the two mean, evil dornish whores the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword, the realm will suffer otherwise, you must go into exile for being with dangerous women and mine and Robert's enemies, and when you kill them you must still go into exile for being naughty Bastard. In the name of Robert Baratheon I want my head back! In the name of Robert Baratheon, I want a job in which I'm not playing dead!"

Lyanna, Cersei, Ashara, Joffrey, Myrcella, Aerys, Rhaella, Doran, Margaery, Rhaenys, Aegon, Elia, Oberyn and Rhaegar were playing soccer with Eddard's head in the sky, "and we told you to shut up when you have no idea about anything."

Robert roared drunk in heaven, "shut up Eddard, do you know that your mother had a fat ass, damn it Ned we're no longer friends, you won't get another job from me. I want a quiet life at the expense of others! I will never work. Children must be slain in the cradle, the brood must die when Dragonspawn put cruel babies in dornish bitches. Every woman must be raped."

Rhaelle Targaryen yelled half-mad at Robert, "you're dragonspawn too you fat, evil Monster", and everyone laughed aloud over Eddard and Robert Baratheon in heaven.

"I, Jon Targaryen, son of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen hereby give independence to the Kingdoms of Westeros, I hereby give sovereignty to Dorne, the Crownlands, Westerlands, the Stormlands, the Reach, the Iron Isles, the North, the Riverlands and the Vale of Arryn. Live a life. I hereby reset the Kingdoms to the point before Aegon the Conqueror came. The Iron Throne is destroyed, this is zero hour for Westeros and the realm. I am calling for a council in six months here in King's Landing, our city, he or she who thinks a feud or war is cool can kiss my unshaven ass and can stay away from the council and there will be political sanctions and consequences for those who play war or break contract, alliances or agreements, he or she moving borders on maps of Westeros gets the bill. I'm not a king. You are the people, I take your orders. I believe in King's Landing, Dragonstone and the Crownlands. I believe in each and every one of you and I support each and every one of you. I'm no better than all of you I have mistakes, yet I work on myself every day and do not make myself a quiet life at the expense of others and change something new every day. Some people on the continent from North to South apparently did not hear the shot", said Jon.

The bells rang in the capital for the Declaration of Independence. Allyria, Daenerys, Daario, Missandei, Grey Worm, Arianne, Quentyn, Gerold Dayne, Daemon Sand, the Dornish Soldiers and the people in the streets of the capital cheered loudly and Ghost howled, "and you gave enough. We believe in you and support you when you believe in us. Yes so good. Well done Jon and now the continent is undergoing a complete makeover, now we will change a continent, and we start with alliances, politics, armies, weapons, contracts, money, and economy. Now we all have to turn the entire continent right side out otherwise we will go in circles. Gerold and Daemon bring resources, dornish horses, steal and supplies to the wall and check out what's happening north of the wall. Quentyn and you Jon sail to Dragonstone with some workers and you bring the Dragonglass to the capital the best dornish smiths are eager to forge into weapons. Arianne and I will initiate the first new laws and councils. Daenerys has things to do in Essos. My mother Mellario comes to Sunspear from Norvos with soldiers and supplies, one of the eight of us must always be in the capital.

Now the entire continent is being turned upside down from north to south. I don't give a fuck Tormund has to come to the capital for the feud between wildlings and men of the Night's Watch then he can say he was in the south in his hypocritical shit. This hypocrisy is no longer funny", said Allyria, Daario, Quentyn, Daenerys, Daemon Sand, Gerold Dayne and Arianne and Jon nodded, "yes i know."

Melisandre landed against the wall. Dany, Allyria and Arianne slapped her in the face, "you can say goodbye to your life for your shit priestess", and Allyria punched her necklace away and Melisandre turned into an old woman, "old mangy smelly lying cunt", Dany and Arianne slammed Melisandre against the stone wall.

"Quentyn found the letter from Aemon Targaryen, Doran hadn't opened it. And when I see that bitch Melisandre, I'll kill her with my own hands for what she did", said Arianne, Daenerys and Allyria and Quentyn, Daario and Jon nodded, "this is the best."

Mighty acceptance, Equal, Sincerity, Loud, Titanium, Dedication, Feared, Modern, Emancipated, Light, Powerful, Clever, Strong, Cunning, Deadly, Political Stability, Loved, Renewal, Vitality, Dark, Sustainable, Communicative, Extremely Emphatic

The Injustice of the Rebellion:

For Lyanna, Elia, Rhaenys, Aegon and Rhaegar

The strongest side at the End of the war of the five Kings: Quentyn Martell, Arianne Martell, Allyria Dayne, Jon Targaryen, Ser Gerold Dayne and Ser Daemon Sand, Daenerys Targaryen and Daario Naharis

Emily Ratajkowski as Arianne Martell, Kit Harington as Jon Targaryen, Kaya Scodelario as Allyria Dayne, Travis Fimmel as Gerold Dayne, Emilia Clarke as Daenerys Stormborn, Rami Malek as Quentyn Martell, Michiel Huisman as Daario Naharis and Jake Gyllenhaal as Daemon Sand

Jon sees Eddard Stark's hypocritical lies. Liberation/Emancipation: Jon's new family out of Liberation because of Eddard Stark's lies, mistakes, hypocrisy and manipulation. Daenerys Targaryen chooses Arianne and Allyria as her sisters. Arianne and Allyria choose Daenerys as the sister. Quentyn Martell, Daario Naharis, Daemon Sand, and Gerold Dayne choose Jon as their brother. Jon chooses Daemon, Daario, Gerold, and Quentyn as his brothers. Meera Reed breaks with Bran Stark and his uselessness forever and goes to Dorne and Gerold Dayne and Meera Reed fall in love. Alys Karstark and Daemon Sand fall in love. Mya leaves the Vale of Arryn for King's Landing and Quentyn and Mya fall in love

King's Landing has fallen. The capital is out of the game. The Iron Throne is destroyed and independence has been given to the Kingdoms. End of the War of the Five Kings: The first popular vote on the continent

The popular election of Arianne Martell, Daario Naharis, Allyria Dayne, Jon Targaryen, Quentyn Martell, Gerold Dayne and Daemon Sand as Heads of the Crownlands through 500,000 People in the capital. Increasing economy, money flow, wealth, health and armies in Dorne, Sunspear, King's Landing and on Dragonstone through the declaration of Independence.

More goods and money come into circulation, Dorne and the Crownlands the first Kingdoms to disband vassalage, the great rise of the standing army in the capital, Sunspear, Starfall and on Dragonstone and draw armies to 100,000 soldiers. Wheels of power crash apart.

Daenerys Targaryen comes to Westeros since the days of the Injustice of Robert's Rebellion. The popular election of Daenerys Stormborn and Daario Naharis as judges of King's Landing. One of the eight must always be in the capital. 95,000 dornish forces, 105,000 forces in the Crownlands. 900 dornish fleets, 1,100 fleets in the Crownlands. Strongest and richest side.

Dothraki, Unsullied, Second-Sons, three dragons, armies of the independent Crownlands and independent Dorne: 280,000 forces in total, 2,500 ships total

Arianne Martell, Allyria Dayne and Daenerys Targaryen get close to the north for Eddard Stark's mistakes and remove Sansa Stark, Robin Arryn, Howland Reed, Arya Stark, and Bran Stark from all political councils and impose political consequences and sanctions on the North for Eddard Stark's support of Robert Baratheon

King's Landing, Dragonstone, Starfall and Sunspear are getting stronger and more powerful. The transition to the end of the Middle Ages. Defense pact between King's Landing, Starfall, Dragonstone and Sunspear

"Yes. We choose you six as protectors of the Crownlands. We choose Daenerys Stormborn and Daario Naharis as judges of King's Landing. The Crownlands will raise armies", said the people in the capital and Allyria, Daenerys, Quentyn, Daario, Jon, Daemon, Gerold and Arianne smiled and nodded, "we accept with pleasure", and the bells rang for the Declaration of Independence. And in the skies of Westeros rejoiced Elia, Lyanna, Rhaegar, Rhaenys, Aegon, Myrcella, Joffrey, Margaery, Tommen, Aerys, Rhaella, Viserys, Barristan Selmy, Arthur Dayne, Gerold Hightower, Rhaelle Targaryen, Orys Baratheon, Oberyn, Doran, "well done Jon."

The news spread through Westeros like wildfire from the Arbor to the wall, from Salt Shore in Dorne to Last Hearth in the North, from Lannisport in the Westerlands to Gulltown in the Vale of Arryn, all cheering for sovereignty, "stop wars! Independence given by House Targaryen. Undead north of the wall."

Allyria, Daenerys, Grey Worm, Missandei, Daario, Quentyn, Daemon, Gerold, Arianne and the dornish soldiers and Jon, Allyria and Arianne entered the Red Keep and Jon looked towards the Iron Throne, "get ropes and cranes. We'll destroy the Iron Throne immediately. In the ovens with it. Now King's Landing and the Red Keep will be remodeled. People should come later there is a lot to do. The entire city is turned upside down from top to bottom. The wildfire has to go. The entire Crownlands are now being redesigned", Jon and dornish soldiers and the people at King's Landing brought ropes and pulled the Iron Throne out of the Red Keep into the furnaces and Jon, Allyria, Arianne, Daenerys, Daario, Quentyn and Gerold and the dornish Forces and the people cheered loudly as the throne melted.

"Down south, the best decision of my life. And there, as far south as possible I found something, there in the dornish marches and deserts, at the end of the path after I died at wall, the truth about Lyanna, Elia and Rhaegar. I am very thankful that I met Allyria and Arianne", thought Jon.

"He's more like you than he knows. He's more like you than he currently realizes. He's his father's son, he's like you. Well done Rhaegar, say hello to Oberyn, Lyanna, Doran, Arthur, Ashara, Elia, Rhaenys, Aegon, Aerys, and Rhaella from us and Jon when you see them and give Eddard Stark, Tywin Lannister and Robert Baratheon a beating from us, well done Prince of Dragonstone thank you. He's more man than the Kingslayer, Robb Stark or the three Baratheon brothers. We look forward to seeing the wall", thought Allyria and Arianne.

Sansa cursed loudly in Winterfell and threw tables over in anger Arya ducked for cover. Sansa angrily knocked over chairs and dishes against the wall, "in the name of Robert Baratheon, the new joke of the year. And all this shit because Lord Eddard Stark backed a warmonger and misogynist from Storm's End. In the name of Robert Baratheon first of his name bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla, hypocritical, lying asshole and motherfucker! It's no longer funny Eddard Stark for what you did. I hope your head keeps rolling where you are now, hypocritical prick", and Arya and Bran didn't say a word and Bran rolled away like a stupid stone, "i cut myself and go emo", Arya and Sansa laughed aloud over Bran, "useless dumbass"

Bran cried like a stone, "mummy, I order something on Amazon", Sansa and Arya laughed aloud over him and Bran cried, "idiot", Bran cried loudly and Sansa and Arya and everyone else laughed aloud over him.

"How was I supposed to know, Eddard Stark lied and was a hypocrite, I had no idea this was Lyanna's son! We can say goodbye to our lives, Arianne Martell and Allyria Dayne will tear you, me and the little monster apart! Arianne Martell, Allyria Dayne and Daenerys Targaryen will play basketball with our heads! Sansa can say goodbye to her life when she messes with Elia's niece for what happened to Elia, Lyanna and Rhaegar, Eddard Stark has supported Robert, Jaime. Robert would have killed Lyanna's son when he ever found out. Now that Arianne Martell knows the truth she will wipe the floor with my head and Sansa's head and she would rightly do so, it's not funny at all what Eddard Stark did", Cersei yelled at Jaime and Jaime didn't say a word on the run as they turned in horror and Arianne, Daenerys and Allyria charged at Cersei, ramming their knife into Cersei's throat, "Die Lannister bitch", Daario and Jon hit Jaime with the sword and Jaime fell to the ground trying to escape as quickly as possible. Jaime got up hurt and ran away. Daenerys, Allyria, Arianne, Jon and Daario yelled after him, "run Kingslayer, run for your life man without honor!"

"Nymeria's star. The Rhoynar are coming to the Capital, Lyanna and Rhaegar's son is with them", called the People in the capital and applauded loudly. Arianne, Quentyn, and Allyria took the Baratheon armies by storm when dornish cavalries and banner of House Martell and Skyreach rode over them. Gerold Dayne, Jon, Daemon Sand, Banner of Starfall, God's Grace, and Yronwood wreaked havoc on Lannister armies, "For Rhaegar, Elia, Lyanna, Rhaenys and Aegon. Slaughter them! Slaughter Lions and Stags! No mercy with Baratheons and Lannisters! Saturate the ground with the blood of the Lannisters of Casterly Rock and Baratheons of Storm's End for what they did", called Quentyn, Jon, Gerold Dayne, Daenerys, Daemon Sand, Daario, Arianne, Allyria and the dornish forces.

Quentyn cut Jaime's leg with the sword and Jaime and Cersei and remaining Lannister soldiers ran away in a panic and the people of King's Landing laughed aloud. 60,000 Forces from Dorne, Starfall, and Sunspear massacred Lannister and Baratheon armies, the People in the capital attacked and slaughtered the Baratheon and Lannister soldiers. Baratheon soldiers ran away in a panic from the wrath of Dorne, "run, run you cowards", yelled Gerold Dayne and Jon and cut off the head of a House Baratheon Bannerman. Ghost jumped on Baratheon soldiers and tore the stag's neck. Gerold smiled, "a Dayne by your side Jon. I could get used to you and your wolf", and Jon nodded, "the dornish armor becomes me", Quentyn, Allyria, Arianne, Gerold, Jon and Daemon laughed aloud.

Arianne and Allyria rammed a knife into Lannister soldiers, cutting him open, "that makes us really wet."

Jon, Daario and Daemon crushed with heavy cavalry the ranks of the Baratheon armies, banners of House Baratheon fleeing the Dothraki and cavalry of Starfall. Dragonfire came down on Lannister and Baratheon armies and the People attacked Baratheon and Lannister soldiers.

Daemon Sand picked up a Baratheon soldier by the neck and snapped his neck with his bare hands, "I could do this all the time."

Gerold Dayne and Jon cut Baratheon soldiers into a thousand pieces with Dawn and Longclaw. Quentyn, Daario and Jon laughed aloud, "come back Kingslayer we're not done with you yet! We also wanted to cut off your other hand so you can never jerk off again Sisterfucker", and the dornish soldiers and People in the capital laughed aloud over Jaime as he ran away like a little, stupid dog without honor, "fuck damn it."

Gerold Dayne and Daemon Sand laughed and put a hand on Jon's shoulder, "there he runs away like the mutt he is."

Daenerys attacked the Lannister and Baratheon armies with Unsullied, Dothraki, and three dragons. Arianne, Daenerys and Allyria ran after Cersei across the capital as Dornish forces, Unsullied and Dothraki crushed the Lannister armies, "come here Lannister bitch we'll kill you!"

Daenerys roared like a dragon after Cersei, Arianne, and Allyria's eyes widened to snake eyes and they hissed and roared, "CERSEI! LANNISTER BITCH GET OVER HERE! We kill every single Lannister we get our hands on until they're dead like their lions brotherfucker. Come here Mother of Madness, we'll smash your ugly snout! We'll kill you Cersei! We'll kill you bitch. We'll kill every single Lannister and Baratheon", screamed Allyria, Daenerys and Arianne like snakes and dragons and Cersei ran away in panic, "fuck fuck fuck. Damn shit."

"I kill every single Lannister and Baratheon I get my hands on and I will piss on your grave. I will drown the realm in the blood of Lannisters and Baratheons. The realm will be flooded with the blood of Lannisters of Casterly Rock and Baratheons of Storm's End for what you all have done when Elia, Ashara, Lyanna and Rhaegar died. I will wipe out the entire line of Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark for what they did. I'll drown the cripple in Winterfell in his own piss for thinking he'll be King of the Rhoynar or King's Landing. It goes to Winterfell, no one in Dorne and the Crownlands will submit to Eddard Stark and his brood of Riverrun.

The North wants war with Dorne, Eddard, Brandon and Rickard Stark brought war between Dorne and the North when Brandon Stark got Ashara Dayne pregnant in Harrenhal", yelled Arianne, Daenerys and Allyria.

"I drench the continent with the blood of House Lannister and Baratheon for what you, the ugly gnome, the kingslayer, your mangy father and the three Baratheon brothers have done", yelled Arianne, Jon, Quentyn, Gerold Dayne, Daenerys, Daemon Sand and Allyria half insane as Cersei ran away in panic and fear far from King's Landing. Cersei ran away, "damn it. Damn shit. That backfired. It's my own fault, fuck. That went haywire."

The coming of the Rhoynar

Dorne enters the War of the Five Kings, Jon enters the War at the Side of Dorne: King's Landing fell to Arianne Martell, Allyria Dayne and Jon Targaryen. Jaime and Cersei Lannister flee the wrath of Dorne to Casterly Rock. Cersei Lannister flees before the Wrath of Arianne Martell and Allyria Dayne. Arianne Martell, Jon Targaryen, Quentyn Martell and Allyria Dayne reach Cersei Lannister before she can reach Casterly Rock.

Death of Cersei Lannister at the hands of Arianne Martell, Daenerys Stormborn and Allyria Dayne, no political consequences. Jaime Lannister, exhausted, reaches Casterly Rock

"King's Landing fell, it went to Arianne Martell, Jon and Allyria Dayne, they are in the capital. King's Landing, Dragonstone and the Crownlands have fallen to Dorne. The Iron Throne is destroyed and Jon gave Independence to all kingdoms", said Bran and Sansa grabbed some wine and walked away alone, cursing loudly, "thanks Eddard Stark for supporting Robert Baratheon, hypocritical prick!"

"Breath deep", said Allyria and kissed him. The Dornish people applauded as Allyria and Jon walked into Sunspear. Arianne smiled broadly.

"Do you know who I am. I'm sorry Jon what the smelly, hypocritical fish of Riverrun did to you, I should have sought the truth sooner. Welcome to Sunspear, nice to see you here Jon, the little brother of Rhaenys and Aegon is in Sunspear. Too bad Oberyn and Doran didn't see it. At least, Ellaria and her daughters are locked away forever for the murder of Myrcella, Areo, Doran, and Trystane", said Arianne and hugged Jon and kissed him on the cheek.

He nodded and kissed Arianne on the cheek, "Arianne. Rhaenys and Aegon's cousin. Am I hated in Dorne? This identity does not stop what others think."

The dornish People smiled and shook the heads, "it may be that this identity does not stop others from forming their own opinions Jon, but war would have struck on all sides, no matter which side. Rhaegar Targaryen wanted to remove Aerys as king at the time he and Elia Martell had not been married, Elia's mother also wanted her daughter to marry without feelings. Elia's mother also wanted to sell her own daughter. Robert Baratheon, Eddard Stark and Tywin Lannister are hated in Dorne."

Arianne and Allyria smiled, "now Rhaegar's youngest child is out of the shadows. Now the eyes are on you Jon it's been about 20 years now, at this moment the eyes of Arthur Dayne, Ashara, Gerold Hightower, Barristan Selmy, Lewyn Martell, Lyanna, Elia, Rhaegar, Rhaella, Doran, Oberyn, Rhaenys and Aegon are on you for what Eddard Stark, Tywin Lannister and Robert Baratheon did over 20 years ago for the Injustice of Robert's Rebellion. When they broke House Targaryen and the continent into a thousand pieces when all three split the continent in civil war when they shattered House Targaryen through Warmongering a rift that shook the continent to its foundations to this day, the continent was struck by megalomania when Rhaegar, your father, died on the Trident.

Polyamorous relationship: The two women who knew Rhaegar, Arthur Dayne, Elia and Lyanna full well.

Times change and society moves with them. Fortunately, more and more other forms of life and love are being accepted than the ones we are used to. Not every relationship is only between two people. Proponents of polyamory do not see themselves in the prevailing ideal of monogamous love and marriage. Polyamory isn't just about sex, it's about loving more than one person and having a full relationship with everyone. Philosophically, the polyamorous concept affirms that a person can have relationships with several people at the same time and challenges the notion that two-person relationships are the only desirable or possible form of coexistence.

Allyria and Jon and Arianne

Nobody in Dorne hates you, you see it, I don't hate you on the contrary I like you very much. You now emerge from the shadows as Robert Baratheon slaughtered your siblings and family."

Arianne gave Ghost something to eat.

"You saw Robert Baratheon once in Winterfell Jon, when the Usurper came North, did you see anything human about the warmonger and misogynist of Storm's End? All three Baratheon brothers would have tried to kill you if they ever found out about you that you're the son of Lyanna. Stannis, Renly and the Usurper. The Lord of Casterly Rock would have tried to kill you if he ever learned the truth. You would have met the same fate as Rhaenys and Aegon.

And with pleasure I give you command for the dornish forces, you are a commander", said Arianne in heavy dornish accent.

Jon shook his head, "no there was nothing human over Robert Baratheon." and the dornish People agreed with him.

Arianne hugged Jon and stroked Ghost and the white wolf jumped into the arms of the two women and licked their faces. Allyria, Arianne and Jon laughed aloud, "you're heavy boy. You're a good boy Ghost. The little brother of Rhaenys and Aegon. I hereby give you orders for 60,000 Dornish forces who are eager to meet you Commander, another 20,000 Dornish forces are in training. Allyria and I hereby make you commander of the dornish armies the people in Dorne voted for you. It's now towards King's Landing, tomorrow we move to the capital, the Iron Throne will be destroyed and you will give independence to the kingdoms as child of Rhaegar", said Arianne and Allyria and Jon smiled and nodded, "I wish those two were alive."

Allyria smiled, "when you are nice Arianne then we will share, i love Jon and he loves me and we share. Polyamorous relationship, we three in love, we three in power, we build alliances and politics. We three would be the most powerful Alliance."

Arianne smiled, "oh yeah with pleasure. That will be justice for Elia, Lyanna, Rhaegar, Rhaenys and Aegon once we have the capital. I'm a beacon of purity. Haha no I'm not. We build our own world", Jon, Allyria and Arianne laughed aloud

Lord Commander Ser Gerold Hightower, Stronger than Jaime Lannister and Ser Arthur Dayne, deadlier than Robert Baratheon

The two men who protected Jon from Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark at the Tower of Joy in Dorne, Allyria Dayne, youngest sister of Arthur and Ashara Dayne.

King's Landing, Dragonstone and the Crownlands fall to Dorne, Arianne Martell, Allyria Dayne, and Jon Targaryen. The destruction of the Iron Throne through Jon. Independence for the Kingdoms through Jon. The North declares war on Dorne. Allyria Dayne, Jon Targaryen, Arianne Martell, Daenerys Targaryen remove Bran, Arya Stark and Sansa Stark from all political councils.

"Phew that was hot now I feel good fucked. You almost fucked the shit out of me", said Allyria and Arianne in heavy dornish accent and Jon was sweating and panting, "And you almost fucked the shit out of me."

Allyria, Arianne and Jon giggled, "He would rage, explode and go up the wall. Eddard Stark wouldn't like Arthur Dayne's sister, Elia's niece and Lyanna's son together. Eddard Stark would explode that the three of us were together because Arthur, Rhaegar, Lyanna, Ashara, Elia and Gerold Hightower knew Ned Stark's hypocritical character. You're naughty Bastard, until someone cries. That's not nice, you have to go into exile for that, bad, bad. She's an evil cunt, bla bla bla. Just bullshit coming out of Ned Stark's snout. Hypocritical moralizer. The ugly realm will suffer when you don't kill young women bastard you have to cut off your privates Bastard no will not be toleranted Bastard", Allyria, Arianne and Jon laughed aloud.

And in the skies of Westeros, Rhaegar, Lyanna, Arthur Dayne, Gerold Hightower, Elia, Ashara, Rhaenys, Aegon, and Oberyn laughed at Eddard Stark and Robert Baratheon, "assholes!"

The southern rulers hate for Eddard, Rickard, Benjen and Brandon Stark and their support for Robert Baratheon.

The doomed North for supporting Robert Baratheon.

The enemies of Eddard Stark: Seven insurmountable women who could kill Eddard Stark for supporting Robert Baratheon without political consequences: Arianne Martell, Allyria Dayne, Margaery Tyrell, Mya Baratheon, Myrcella Lannister, Cirilla Fiona Elen Riannon or Yennefer of Vengerberg, seven women who are not related to Jon. Seven women who see Eddard Stark's lies, mistakes and his hypocrisy. Seven women who recognize Jon's identity as not being a bastard because of Eddard Stark's hypocrisy. Seven women who would take Jon in an instant. Women that Jon will take immediately

The dornish hatred against Rickard Stark and his three sons for supporting a warmonger

The dornish people call Eddard Stark a hypocrite

Just a good northern lord nothing more nothing less. Whoever supports Robert Baratheon deserves only death

The countless enemies of Eddard Stark: Jon's alliances with the enemies of your enemies for Eddard Stark's lies, mistakes and Manipulation on Jon

The dornish people's hatred for Eddard Stark. The misogynist of Storm's End Robert Baratheon

The Misogynist and Warmonger from Storm's End and the Hypocrite from Winterfell. Jon's Freeing for Ned Stark's mistakes and his Manipulation on Jon.

Life after Death: Jon leaves the wall right away with Ghost and Longclaw after he dies heading south and sails to Dorne and reaches Starfall at the dornish coast and meets Allyria Dayne and Arianne Martell and tells them about the undead and that he died. Jon learns the truth in Dorne and builds acceptance. Allyria, Arianne, Daemon, Gerold and Quentyn help fill Jon's head after his death

Eddard Stark's hypocritical honor: There are only seven women who can see through Eddard Stark's hypocrisy and lies, Mya Baratheon, Yennefer of Vengerberg, Myrcella Lannister, Margaery Tyrell, Cirilla Fiona Elen Riannon, Allyria Dayne and Arianne Martell

Ned Stark's head rolled in Heaven and only hypocritical and lying shit came out, "BASTARD! That's naughty with dangerous women, I didn't order that, I order obedience, you always have to obey what I say bastard! Bad bad bad bad. Be submissive Bastard and resistance and naughtiness will not be tolerated!

You have to go into exile for being with a mean sister of Arthur Dayne and if you kill her you still have to go into exile, I wouldn't condone anything else. You're naughty Bastard and that's not proper. Be submissive I command it Bastard! You have to cut off your privates Bastard no will not be tolerated Bastard. That's not decent with dangerous women. I hate the south, the dornish people are the meanest of them all, they're so mean, so mean, so mean. Until someone cries. You have to kill young women Bastard, otherwise the Realm will suffer. You have to kill her Bastard, the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword I'm not a murderer, I like chopping off boys' heads on the block. I will never work. I watch while others make mistakes because I'm allowed to make mistakes because I always snitch.

It's naughty when you make alliances with my and Robert's enemies. I expect to stay away from her. You gotta kill her Bastard, the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword, no will not be tolerated, she's evil because she is the sister of Arthur Dayne and Ashara Dayne. I go to Robert and snitch and kiss his ass.

All dornish people are evil snakes and Martells are the worst of all they must be subservient to me, they're so evil and mean, they're so mean, Elia is a mean serpent, Martells are mean and evil serpents until someone cries.

I expect to take the hands off Arthur Dayne's whore sister and Elia Martell's whore niece! I hate Arthur Dayne and Gerold Hightower so much!

In the name of Robert Baratheon first of his name, I want my head back. On behalf of Robert Baratheon, I want to have a job in which I'm not playing dead."

Elia, Lyanna, Barristan Selmy, Aerys, Rhaella, Ashara, Gerold Hightower, Arthur and Rhaegar's fists hit Eddard's head. Aerys, Rhaella, Doran and Oberyn beat up Tywin and Joanna.

Rhaella, Ashara, Elia and Lyanna beat up Eddard's head, Robert and Catelyn, "we'll knock that shit out of your head!"

Robert screamed drunk in heaven, "we're no longer friends Ned, you won't get another job from me. I want a quiet life at the expense of others, I will never work. Every woman needs to be beaten. Children must be slain in the cradle the brood must die when Dragonspawn puts cruel babies in the dornish cunt", and all in heaven laughed aloud over Eddard and Robert Baratheon. Rhaelle Targaryen yelled half-mad at Robert, "You're a Dragonspawn too you evil bunch of shit!"

"I drink myself to the grave", said Robert drunk, "you're dead you fat, evil, heartless pig. The whore who hunted boars died at the hands of a boar", yelled Lyanna, Myrcella, Joffrey, Oberyn, Aerys, Rhaegar and Elia and beat up Robert and Eddard. Rhaenys, Myrcella, Joffrey and Aegon beat up Catelyn and Robb in Heaven, "Come here this is for Jon", Lysa, Petyr Baelish, Arthur Dayne, Ashara Dayne beat up Jon Arryn, Brandon Stark, Rickard Stark and Hoster Tully, "old, senile, hypocritical bastards!"

Lyanna, Rhaegar, Myrcella, Joffrey and Elia beat Robert and Eddard up in heaven, "we'll beat the shit out of you two."

Orys Baratheon sharpened the knives, "come here Robert I'll kill you again for what you did!"

Allyria and Jon kissed each other, "So honey: What are we two talking about first? What would you like to talk about first Jon? I'll tell you something Jon, I'm looking forward to seeing the wall. Nymeria of the Rhoynar exiled the Kings of Dorne to the wall, the wall is also known in Dorne. In the next few days you, Ghost and I are traveling to Sunspear, we have enough things to do. We ride to Sunspear with some forces from Starfall and I want you to train and lead the dornish armies. Someone wants to meet you honey, Arianne Martell, the cousin of your siblings Rhaenys and Aegon, Arianne also wants you as a leader for the dornish forces. You can call yourself Stark or Targaryen, Jon, and if Arianne or i were you we would take the name Targaryen for what Robert Baratheon, Tywin Lannister and Eddard Stark did. You don't have to, it's just advice honey. Arianne, you, the dornish Forces and I move against King's Landing we lock Cersei Lannister away for the rest of her life and the Iron Throne will be destroyed and you give independence to the kingdoms. Arianne, you and I take control of the capital. Your home, King's Landing."

Jon nodded, "and I take the name Targaryen."

Allyria nodded.

"You are a commander and general and I need a good general. Dorne needs the best General. I take you as commander for the terrestrial armed forces of Dorne and we increase the number of armies and we will consider many more steps leading an expedition to Valyria for valyrian steel."

Jon frowned, "Harrenhal. When all the smiles died. Your sister Ashara was my aunt as Brandon made her pregnant, that would have led to war between Dorne and the North over Brandon, Eddard and Rickard Stark and she would have made a far better aunt than the stinky fish from Riverrun", Allyria nodded, "yes you're right Brandon didn't want the stinky fish from Riverrun and Rickard knew it very well.

Yes, I would be the aunt of your Cousin if he was still alive. I am the little sister of Arthur and Ashara. We're going to loosen it up a bit so even the dumbest idiot can understand that Robert Baratheon was a warmonger. Robert Baratheon would have made you his enemy. No matter an illegitimate child or in Yi Ti, a sack of rice falls over. You're a Prince of House Targaryen through birth, you're highborn too. Through birth you're a prince. You are more like Rhaegar and Lyanna than you realize. You are very similar to both of them.

If Robert Baratheon or Tywin Lannister had ever known about you, Jon, they would have tried to kill you as the child of Rhaegar and Lyanna, the woman who didn't want Robert. Brandon got Ashara pregnant in Harrenhal and he and Rickard didn't give a fuck. She lost the child, it was a boy, your cousin, and she committed suicide. Let's keep talking in the bathroom", Jon nodded and the two sat down in a bathtub.

The youngest sister of Ser Arthur Dayne and Ashara Dayne, the sister of the man who protected Jon and Lyanna from Robert Baratheon and Eddard Stark at the Tower of Joy in Dorne

Allyria frowned and eyed Jon as he went through Starfall with Ghost, "something is very wrong here. Something is going against the grain. Something's off the rails here and there's a terrific smell of lies and manipulation on Ned Stark's part here. I don't like it, it stinks of lies here.

It smells like lies here by Eddard Stark. What was it? Ah right: I kill every single Targaryen I get my hands on until they're dead like their dragons."

She smiled.

"Hey Jon, would you like to try Dornish wine. Would you like to cook with me later? I'll set up a room for you, I have a few things to do that you could help me with. I have some clothes that should fit you. Do you like Starfall and Dorne", said Allyria. Jon looked up, smiled and nodded, "Yes sounds good. It's awesome", Allyria handed him wine and watched him go.

"Hihi hey Lyanna, hey Rhaegar. Say hello to Ashara, Elia, and Arthur for me when you see them.

Haha Karma is a bitch Lord Eddard Stark ask your stupid brother Brandon who made Ashara pregnant in Harrenhal, whoever supports Robert Baratheon deserves only death", and Allyria smiled and looked at him as he went away.

Allyria pulled Jon with her, "the Injustice at House Targaryen. The Injustice of Robert's Rebellion when he butchered your family. Robert Baratheon and Tywin Lannister would have tried to kill you if they ever found out about you. The three Baratheon brothers would have tried to kill you.

Arthur was my brother, he protected you from Eddard Stark and Robert Baratheon when you were born at the Tower of Joy in Dorne so that the same thing that happened to your siblings Rhaenys and Aegon would not happen to you. Arthur and Ashara were my siblings. Come here Jon, no problem stay in Starfall with Ghost. First of all we two drink beer and eat something you and me, you tell me something about yourself and I tell you something about me, then we make out and then we seduce each other and then we'll talk again very sincere ok?

We'll find solutions for everything, there is so much to do, it's enough work. Stay with me, stay in Dorne.

I won't put up with that from Lord Eddard Stark, he deserved death for supporting Robert Baratheon. The misogynist and warmonger of Storm's End and the narcissistic motherfucker of Casterly Rock.

Blame the fat, stupid, dead Usurper and that Eddard Stark supported him. Blame Robert Baratheon and Tywin Lannister. Stay with me. No Problem at all, I take you immediately with pleasure for the rest of my life", Jon nodded, "i stay with you, i take you for the rest of my life."

Allyria Dayne vs. Bran Stark: Allyria's hatred of Tullys and hypocritical honor when Ashara and Arthur are dead.

Kaya Scodelario as Allyria Dayne: Sister of Arthur Dayne and Ashara Dayne

Bran's enemies: Allyria Dayne and Arianne Martell

Only seven Women who feel a false identity about Jon because of Eddard Stark's mistakes

Allyria Dayne, Arianne Martell, Mya Baratheon, Yennefer of Vengerberg, Cirilla Fiona Elen Riannon, Margaery Tyrell or Myrcella Lannister

Allyria wide-eyed as she walked through Starfall with some soldiers when she saw a white wolf and she stroked him, "a direwolf in the south cool. A big white Wolf."

Jon was sitting at a bazaar having a beer and looking up, "his name is Ghost. I'm Jon Snow. Eddard Stark's Bastard son."

She looked confused and Allyria looked at him and into his eyes, "grey eyes? Huh. What the fuck? Allyria Dayne, Head of Starfall. Brandon Stark's little brother, Ned Stark, the shy wolf, had an illegitimate child? What are you doing here in Dorne, Jon Snow? Ned Stark's illegitimate son? Hypocritical honor killed your father when he lost his head to Joffrey Lannister."

"Brandon Stark was my uncle. He was killed by the Mad King", said Jon.

Allyria laughed cynically, "your stupid uncle Brandon fucked my sister Ashara Dayne in Harrenhal when all the smiles died your retarted uncle Brandon didn't want a smelly fish from Riverrun and he and your stupid grandfather Rickard didn't give a fuck about my sister. How are the sanctimonious, lying fishes I really feel like killing Edmure Tully personally.

Ashara was pregnant through him. She lost the child, it was a boy, and she committed suicide. The wanker Howland Reed was keen on my sister like a mangy little mutt. And you know what else I would enjoy? Eradicate the brood of Eddard Stark for what he, your grandfather Rickard, and your uncles Benjen and Brandon did to House Martell and my family when your hypocritical father and grandfather Eddard and Rickard Stark kissed the ass of a fat warmonger in Storm's End. Rickard Stark who fucked his own cousin in his hypocrisy and his three sons with a brain cell the size of a lens. Do you want war with Dorne Jon Snow?"

Jon looked with big eyes and stuttered, "oh fuck. I shouldn't have said that. I did not know it. I'm sorry, I had no idea believe me. No, I don't want war with Dorne. Am I your prisoner?"

Allyria hissed, "you are not yet. Not now. It's ok. You cannot know. That was your stupid uncle Brandon", and Jon nodded, "sorry I shouldn't have said that", Allyria and the dornish soldiers smiled, "it's ok you can't know. Have you ever been to Dorne before", Jon shook his head, "no but it's great, I was here within a few hours, I want to see more. I know 10,000 Dornish soldiers fought the Battle of the Trident. The only deserts on the continent are in Dorne. Can it snow in a desert", Allyria choked on the dornish wine and the soldiers smiled, "maybe or maybe not, you'll have to find that out for yourself. Oh you know a lot. Ok then I'll show you more. You know about armies and warfare?"

Jon nodded, "a trained Commander, I was at the wall."

Allyria sat down with him and eyed him and sent the soldiers away, "we in Dorne know the wall too, Nymeria of the Rhoynar exiled the kings of Dorne to the wall", Jon looked with wide eyes, "that's awesome."

#allyria and jon #jon stark #allyria dayne #kit harington #kaya scodelario #arthur dayne #lyanna stark #rhaegar targaryen #aisling franciosi #elia martell #freida pinto #jon targaryen #arianne and allyria and jon #emily ratajkowski #arianne and allyria #daenerys and daario #daenerys stormborn #daario naharis

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samwpmarleau · 3 years

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How do you think the Martell family dynamics would have changed if Elia and her children had lived? Do you think Oberyn would've named his fifth daughter Elia if his sister was alive? Would Arianne and Quentyn have been closer? (Personally, I think they'd be one of the happier, most functioning families in Westeros, but that's because I want nothing but good things for them at all times.)

This post and this post touch on that a bit, though are centered more around what the Martells would do re: the crown if Elia lived. This more in-depth answer to your ask got a lot longer than intended, so I’m putting it under a cut.

I don’t think the dynamics strictly between Elia and her brothers would change all that much, honestly. Elia and Oberyn have always been really tight, and that I think would continue. I do think Doran and Elia would grow a lot closer, which canonically they weren’t really by virtue of Doran being nine years older and fostered away from Sunspear most of the time, but they still wouldn’t have that same history together that she and Oberyn did so there’d probably still be a gulf there.

Perhaps the most stark (heh) difference would be between Doran, Mellario, and their kids. With Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon alive and well, Doran would not be caught up in getting vengeance, he wouldn’t be brokering arrangements to send Arianne to Tyrosh, and Quentyn might not even need to be forcibly fostered away either. Doran could try harder to sue for peace with the Yronwoods, or Elia could try, or maybe Aegon would be sent there instead of Quentyn. He may very well still have to be due to reparations for Oberyn’s foolishness, but at the very least, Elia would be able to temper the massive rift that caused between Doran and Mellario.

Speaking of which, while Doran and Mellario would still have the normal couple squabbles and Mellario would still feel the culture clash, I think there’s every likelihood they’d stay together. Elia felt a massive culture clash as well when she married Rhaegar, for example, and had to deal with unfamiliar and harsh realities where her ethnicity and society were Othered.

Mind you, to my recollection the Dornish don’t seem to have any particular disdain for the Essosi (Aliandra married one in Drazenko Rogare and I don’t remember anyone taking issue with Mellario herself either), but Mellario did canonically feel like an outsider. So Elia commiserating with that, having first-hand experience, I think would help a lot. And vice versa! While Elia did have female friends, she never had a sister, so I think she and Mellario could come together in that respect.

There would be a profound change, too, in Arianne. Doran would never be pursuing a Targaryen restoration, thus would never write that letter about making Quentyn the Prince of Dorne (with the intent of Arianne being queen), thus their relationship would never become so fractured, or at least not because of that. The domino effect extending to Arianne and Quentyn: Arianne would have no need to be jealous or angry towards her brother, so their relationship would be far better than it is in canon. Perhaps they’d be just as close as Elia and Oberyn, even.

As for Elia Sand, I don’t see any reason why Oberyn wouldn’t name her after his sister. The main reason in canon was to honor her, and that wouldn’t change here. After all, Oberyn’s three other children by Ellaria were also named after family members — Obella = Oberyn, Dorea = Doran, and Loreza presumably named after his mom. Oberyn was closest with Elia and would be ever so happy that she was back in Dorne, so it makes perfect sense that he’d give his daughter her name.

So yeah, I think your assessment is spot on: the Martells would indeed be one of the happiest, most functional families in Westeros. Sure, they’d have their issues, and Elia would undoubtably have some aftereffects from what she suffered due to Rhaegar and Aerys, plus there’s the matter of her kids being half-Targaryen and royal by blood, but returning to Dorne again would be healing for everyone.

It would also make a difference outside of Dorne. What about the threat Rhaenys and Aegon pose to Robert? What about them being lingering reminders of Rhaegar? Would Viserys and Dany go to Dorne? I feel it’s very probable they would, since the Martells are the only family they have left...though, of course, Dany wasn’t born until 284, so would Rhaella have gone to Dorne once Rhaegar and Aerys died instead of Dragonstone? Being given proper medical care and less stress, would she never have died? Would she, Viserys, and Dany stay in Dorne or would they, for example, go to Essos to start completely over?

Would Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon being alive mean Ned was a whole lot closer to Robert and didn’t have quite as much PTSD from the war, since one of the major sources of that is the slaughtering of Elia and the kids? On that note, what would the relationship be like between the remaining Starks and the Martells? Would Elia being front and center to Aerys’s tyranny mean she’d be sympathetic to Ned’s plight, or would her also being front and center to Rhaegar’s betrayal, and therefore ostensibly Lyanna’s, mean she would have none? Would Ned tell her that Lyanna didn’t stay with Rhaegar willingly? Would he tell her about Jon? Without the falling out that he and Robert had over Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon being killed, would Ned even have found Lyanna, let alone before she died? What about the Kingsguard? Would Rhaenys and Robb get together and be an amazing power couple?

And on and on the hypotheticals go. The books and fandom downplay Elia’s importance to a disgusting degree, and yet a frankly ridiculous amount of things and people would be altered had she lived, even more so had her children also lived.

#elia martell #house martell #asoiaf #thinky thoughts #anonymous

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megashadowdragon · 3 years

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Love is the bane of honor

I think Aegon's role narratively is "don't put all your faith in perfect kings", especially not a kid. It's all about the pressure of being a hereditary ruler, the pressure of duty, of others' expectations being placed on a child solely due to his birthright, and of a life sacrificed to duty.

"He is here. Aegon has been shaped for rule since before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows that kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them."

What Varys has said is all about Aegon ruling for others. That implies serious self-sacrifice. But is Aegon truly fit for this? Note how Varys never speaks of love, it's all about Aegon being raised to fulfill his duty, and one that has been placed on him based on his supposed birthright by others, which to us readers is uncertain to begin with and could even become uncertain to Aegon himself at some point.

"Jon, did you ever wonder why the men of the Night's Watch take no wives and father no children?" Maester Aemon asked.

Jon shrugged. "No." He scattered more meat. The fingers of his left hand were slimy with blood, and his right throbbed from the weight of the bucket.

"So they will not love," the old man answered, "for love is the bane of honor, the death of duty."

We have here the literal kryptonite to Varys' expectations.

Aegon is still young and we have no indication he has any experience with women other than being raised by a septa, which considering the faith's tenants has served the opposite interest.

Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man's nature

Arianne, a very intimidating woman, is coming to push herself onto Aegon, yet Aegon's entourage believed the support of Dorne was expected due to their existing blood ties to Aegon, not thanks to a new union between Aegon and a Dornish princess, a union which would also alter Doran's current plans which did not factor in Aegon at all.

A union to Aegon, from Doran's perspective, might also cast uncertainty into the master-strategist's mind; what will Dorne do when the real dragons come? And what if Dany's entourage sends a letter to Dorne along with Quentyn's body, telling them the prince was burned by the dragons he tried to steal? Would Arianne and the Sand Snakes believe it at all, especially if Arianne is trying to put herself between Aegon and Daenerys?

Daenerys on the other hand is preferred by Connington, who says the prince must hold off on any marriage as she may yet come, and he holds no found memories of Elia Martell, which might tarnish his view of Arianne no matter how "healthy" she might appear:

A bride for our bright prince. Jon Connington remembered Prince Rhaegar's wedding all too well. Elia was never worthy of him. She was frail and sickly from the first, and childbirth only left her weaker. After the birth of Princess Rhaenys, her mother had been bedridden for half a year, and Prince Aegon's birth had almost been the death of her. She would bear no more children, the maesters told Prince Rhaegar afterward.

"Daenerys Targaryen may yet come home one day," Connington told the Halfmaester. "Aegon must be free to marry her."

"My lord knows best," said Haldon. "In that case, we might consider offering potential friends a lesser prize."

Pushing lesser prizes onto Dorne is unlikely to be well received, chiefly by Arianne herself.

Connington is trying to shield the prince from doubt:

"I like the sound of that. My army." A smile flashed across his face, then vanished. "Are they, though? They're sellswords. Yollo warned me to trust no one."

"There is wisdom in that," Griff admitted. It might have been different if Blackheart still commanded, but Myles Toyne was four years dead, and Homeless Harry Strickland was a different sort of man. He would not say that to the boy, however. That dwarf had already planted enough doubts in his young head. "Not every man is what he seems, and a prince especially has good cause to be wary … but go too far down that road, and the mistrust can poison you, make you sour and fearful."

Yet Connington is joined by Tyrion's proposal, even if unknowingly, to wait for Daenerys:

"You do not need to win," Tyrion told him. "All you need to do is raise your banners, rally your supporters, and hold, until Daenerys arrives to join her strength to yours."

Tyrion sold the idea to Aegon as follows:

"I told you, I know our little queen. Let her hear that her brother Rhaegar's murdered son is still alive, that this brave boy has raised the dragon standard of her forebears in Westeros once more, that he is fighting a desperate war to avenge his father and reclaim the Iron Throne for House Targaryen, hard-pressed on every side … and she will fly to your side as fast as wind and water can carry her. You are the last of her line, and this Mother of Dragons, this Breaker of Chains, is above all a rescuer. The girl who drowned the slaver cities in blood rather than leave strangers to their chains can scarcely abandon her own brother's son in his hour of peril. And when she reaches Westeros, and meets you for the first time, you will meet as equals, man and woman, not queen and supplicant. How can she help but love you then, I ask you?"

The temptation is that of a mother figure and a rescuer who would fly to him like the wind, her brother's son, a boy becoming a man. Similarly, agreeing to this would place trust in his father-figure's plan. There is reassurance in taking this road, the one of parents he never had.

One way or another, Aegon must chose, at a time when war rages. But there is much room for doubt to keep him undecided, and if word reaches them that Daenerys has hurriedly flown away on her Dragon, could it be that Tyrion and Connington were right? Is the Mother of Dragons flying to the prince as fast as wind can carry her?

Aegon might hear the echo of Tyrion's words:

"Your father knew the dangers of being overbold."

The prince stared at the playing board. "My dragon—"

"—is too far away to save you. You should have moved her to the center of the battle."

Wait, and wait, and wait, but the war does not.

The death of duty

As the pressure mounts on Aegon to either keep on waiting for Daenerys or secure an alliance with Dorne, will Aegon break? And more importantly, if he does, how?

What if this is exactly what happened with Rhaegar? What if Rhaegar buckled under all the pressure that was on him? From prophecies to the duty of kingship.

"Lingering here will never bring it any closer. The sooner we take our leave of this place—"

"I know. I do." Dany did not know how to make him see. She wanted Westeros as much as he did, but first she must heal Meereen. "Ninety days is a long time. Hizdahr may fail. And if he does, the trying buys me time. Time to make alliances, to strengthen my defenses, to—"

"And if he does not fail? What will Your Grace do then?"

"Her duty." The word felt cold upon her tongue. "You saw my brother Rhaegar wed. Tell me, did he wed for love or duty?"

The old knight hesitated. "Princess Elia was a good woman, Your Grace. She was kind and clever, with a gentle heart and a sweet wit. I know the prince was very fond of her."

That answer from Jorah is fairly clear; Rhaegar married Elia out of duty, and maybe a hint of prophecy for all we know. He did not do so out of love.

Remember, Rhaegar thought he was expected to become a warrior. So we have another self-sacrifice for duty's sake:

"As a young boy, the Prince of Dragonstone was bookish to a fault. He was reading so early that men said Queen Rhaella must have swallowed some books and a candle whilst he was in her womb. Rhaegar took no interest in the play of other children. The maesters were awed by his wits, but his father's knights would jest sourly that Baelor the Blessed had been born again. Until one day Prince Rhaegar found something in his scrolls that changed him. No one knows what it might have been, only that the boy suddenly appeared early one morning in the yard as the knights were donning their steel. He walked up to Ser Willem Darry, the master-at-arms, and said, 'I will require sword and armor. It seems I must be a warrior.'"

And there is another hint that Rhaegar may have wanted to move away from the pressure of ruling, although a subtle one that remains to be cleared up:

Prince Rhaegar shook his head. "My royal sire fears your father more than he does our cousin Robert. He wants you close, so Lord Tywin cannot harm him. I dare not take that crutch away from him at such an hour."

Jaime's anger had risen up in his throat. "I am not a crutch. I am a knight of the Kingsguard."

"Then guard the king," Ser Jon Darry snapped at him. "When you donned that cloak, you promised to obey."

Rhaegar had put his hand on Jaime's shoulder. "When this battle's done I mean to call a council. Changes will be made. I meant to do it long ago, but . . . well, it does no good to speak of roads not taken. We shall talk when I return."

But love is the bane of honor, the death of duty:

"Swords win battles," Ser Jorah said bluntly. "And Prince Rhaegar knew how to use one."

"He did, ser, but . . . I have seen a hundred tournaments and more wars than I would wish, and however strong or fast or skilled a knight may be, there are others who can match him. A man will win one tourney, and fall quickly in the next. A slick spot in the grass may mean defeat, or what you ate for supper the night before. A change in the wind may bring the gift of victory." He glanced at Ser Jorah. "Or a lady's favor knotted round an arm."

So I posit that the fear of it all frightened Rhaegar into the arms of Lyanna, who similarly ran from a duty imposed on her in marrying Robert, and as the war began to rage on both escaped away from it all to the Tower of Joy.

Kill the boy and let the man be born

Many wonder what Arys Oakheart's narrative point was. He is a good example of a man who struggled between love and duty.

You know I have no other woman. Only... duty.

Which led him to his death:

Arys, my sweet knight, why did you do it? You should have yielded. I tried to tell you, but the words caught in my mouth. You gallant fool, I never meant for you to die, or for Myrcella...

I believe that as history seems to so often repeat itself in the world of Ice and Fire, Aegon will flee into the arms of love. But whose' love?

Come break of day, they were off again. Elia Sand led the way, her black braid flying behind her as she raced across the dry, cracked plains and up into the hills. The girl was mad for horses, which might be why she often smelled like one, to the despair of her mother. Sometimes Arianne felt sorry for Ellaria. Four girls, and every one of them her father's daughter.

Elia Sand, who bears the name of Aegon's mother, is similar in more ways than one to Lyanna Stark.

"We will see about that." Valena wheeled her big red around and put her heels into him, and the race was on, through the dusty lanes of the village at the bottom of the hill, as chickens and villagers alike scrambled out of their path. Arianne was three horse lengths behind by the time she got her mare up to a gallop, but had closed to one halfway up the slope. The two of them were side-by-side as they thundered towards the gatehouse, but five yards from the gates Elia Sand came flying from the cloud of dust behind them to rush past both of them on her black filly.

"Are you half horse, child?" Valena asked, laughing, in the yard. "Princess, did you bring a stable girl?"

"I'm Elia," the girl announced. "Lady Lance."

Lyanna was also a horse-rider:

Arya was breathing hard herself then. She knew the fight was done. "You ride like a northman, milady," Harwin said when he'd drawn them to a halt. "Your aunt was the same. Lady Lyanna."

And she was literally said to be "half a horse"

Horses … the boy was mad for horses, Lady Dustin will tell you. Not even Lord Rickard's daughter could outrace him, and that one was half a horse herself.

And similarly to Elia, Lyanna could fight:

"Lyanna might have carried a sword, if my lord father had allowed it.

And we have this in Bran's vision:

Now two children danced across the godswood, hooting at one another as they dueled with broken branches. The girl was the older and taller of the two. Arya! Bran thought eagerly, as he watched her leap up onto a rock and cut at the boy. But that couldn't be right. If the girl was Arya, the boy was Bran himself, and he had never worn his hair so long. And Arya never beat me playing swords, the way that girl is beating him. She slashed the boy across his thigh, so hard that his leg went out from under him and he fell into the pool and began to splash and shout.

Elia can joust, and we all know that the Knight of the Laughing Tree is believed by many to have been Lyanna:

"I am almost a woman grown, ser," she responded haughtily. "I'll let you spank me, though... but first you'll need to tilt with me, and knock me off my horse."

"We are on a ship, and without horses," Joss replied.

"And ladies do not joust," insisted Ser Garibald Shells, a far more serious and proper young man than his companion.

"I do. I'm Lady Lance."

Arianne had heard enough. "You may be a lance, but you are no lady. Go below and stay there till we reach land."

Note the point earlier where Elia surprises Arianne by racing ahead of her? It is a very tempting hint that Elia will steal Arianne's place and become Aegon's love interest, one no one is pushing on him. Her playful and courageous nature might attract him, comfort him at a time of incredible pressure, just as Lyanna may have with Rhaegar before.

But Rhaegar in the end found his courage, and went into battle. He killed the boy to let the man be born. And died.

"Can a man still be brave if he's afraid?"

"That is the only time a man can be brave," his father told him.

But the question, what bravery will Aegon be pushed into?

"Your father knew the dangers of being overbold."

I won't theorize on what Aegon might throw his courage at here, as the above might bring enough down-votes on its own. I'll just say that Elia, the lance-wielder, has a strong connection to Aegon already:

"Vengeance for Oberyn and Elia."

"Prince Aegon was Rhaegar's heir by Elia of Dorne"

"You raped her. You murdered her. You killed her children."

TLDR: Aegon's and Elia Sands' story parallels Rhaegar and Lyanna's, and will end tragically. “

#asoiaf #A Song of Ice and Fire

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aegonbeingfakeisracist · 4 years

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This is similar to the previous ask, but lets say that Elia & her kids hid in like a secret passage & the mountain/lorch mistook a maid (maybe a dornish wetnurse who had her baby with her) for Elia & Aegon. Given the brutality of the murders, identity would be ambiguous. So when the bodies are presented, its pretty much the same as in canon only unbeknownst to all Elia is not really dead. Rhaenys is missing & presumed dead in the Sack. (1/)

Ive always assumed that ned stark wouldve searched the red keep for lyanna or any clues where she was being kept. So lets say he finds Elia & the kids. He's just fought Robert & Jon Arryn for their acceptance of the murders. So he's not going to hand over Elia to them. Maybe she asks him to help her return home in exchange for info abt lyanna. (2/)

So Elia goes home with her children and ned takes jon snow after lyanna dies. Would Elia stay 'dead' or could a marriage be negotiated between Rhaenys and future heir. Dorne holds the advantage as Elia & the children are safe. And what side would the north be on, would ned make up with robert or will he help Elia. I just had this idea - dorne & the north are my favourite places and i adore both the Martells & Starks equally. (3/)

I think they both suffered unfairly in the war and Ive always wished they interacted more, they've got more in common with each other than with the rest of Westeros. (4/4) Sorry for the really long ask. I just wanted to know your opinion - you're one of the few blogs who have rational and sound analysis of anything pertaining to Dorne. Thanks for being awesome 😆

I think it’s more likely that Elia makes it known that she’s alive than remaining in hiding. While there might be motivation to stay in hiding after learning how brutally murdered the people mistaken for Elia and Aegon were, it’s a lot less practical for a grown woman and two children than it is for Aegon alone like in canon. Maybe any of them alone could go unnoticed. But the three of them together, in Dorne, with Elia’s family, because I really can’t imagine Doran sending her away from Sunspear to anywhere else for any reason? No way. Elia’s a grown woman and was the wife of the crown prince! She’d have been one of the most recognizable people in the country. While people would be unlikely to immediately make the leap to “oh, she looks like Princess Elia, Elia’s alive”, it would be a much easier leap to make when she’s with a son and a daughter of the right ages. So staying in hiding wouldn’t be practical or sustainable. I suspect be a safer option to be open about it, rather than risk war coming to Dorne once word got out that Doran had been harbouring fugitives. As you point out, Dorne would have the upper hand - Elia and her children are safe; invading Dorne never works out; and I highly doubt anyone is capable of fihgting another war right then. So it’s a way better option to just let everyone get used to the idea now, rather than risk it coming out once team Baratheon has had enough time to regather its strength. In that event, I think we can be sure a betrothal between Rhaenys and Robert’s future kid would be quickly negotiated.

As for Ned, I think this situation would mean he’d have to confront who Robert really is a lot sooner than he does in canon. Robert is someone that seems like a walking contradiction until you think about it for a second and realize how true he feels to a certain type of person in our world. He’s someone that could have and should have so, so easily been better. When he was young, the person Ned knew and loved, he was handsome and talented and generous and seemed so promising. He was delighted by the birth of Mya Stone and came to see her every day, making Ned come, too, so he could show off his little daughter to his best friend. He’s the forgiving man that pardoned almost everyone that fought for Aerys. But then you get to the war and the aftermath, and you see the person Cersei knew. Robert is also the man that climbed to his throne over the corpses of children and rewarded the man that gifted him those corpses by marrying his daughter. He’s a man that violently abuses his wife and is pleased by a murdered infant with a crushed skull and sends assassins after a pregnant teenager. He can forgive so many people, but he can’t regret the murders of babies. He spends fifteen years hating the Targaryens - not just Aerys and Robert, but Rhaenys, Aegon, Viserys, Daenerys. In a world where Ned has to witness Robert raging over these children, I can see him deciding that he can’t support that. Maybe he wouldn’t outright pick a side in the sense of actively choosing to support Elia, but I think it would amount to the same thing, because he would refuse to play a part in murdering children.

Yeah, I think having the Martells and Starks interact could have been really cool. We get that incredibly brief scene with Oberyn talking to Sansa, but that’s, like, two sentences. It doesn’t delve into anything real. I would love to see Arianne and either of the Stark girls interacting.

Don’t apologize! I’m sorry it took this long to answer, I was otherwise occupied. Thank you!

#riaen #replies

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mytsitsini · 5 years

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“In Defence of Rhaegar Targaryen”

AKA some really annoying claims concerning a certain Targaryen I want to address.

“What Rhaegar did at Harrenhal was dickish, but it’s very important that we don’t know Elia’s reaction, because GRRM will reveal that she was actually OK with it”

Ned Stark himself says that:

Ned remembered the moment when all the smiles died, when Prince Rhaegar Targaryen urged his horse past his own wife, the Dornish princess Elia Martell, to lay the queen of beauty's laurel in Lyanna's lap.

‘All smiles died’. All. If Elia Martell, Rhaegar’s own wife, is not included in ‘alll’, Ned would have made sure to mention it - it would be beyond odd for the wife of the prince not to feel insulted. People would speculate. People would question it. Ned himself mentions Elia in this very passage, so why would he not mark her reaction, had it been different to that of everyone else? Because her smile died, like everyone else’s.

And if that’s too vague, then there is this piece from The World of Ice and Fire, depicting Harrenhal:

Created by artist Paolo Puggioni. From his official website:

We’ve always imagined that the perfect image of the tourney at Harrenhal would kind of let you pick out all these figures in the stands, each with their different reactions when ‘the smiles died’. Jon Arryn and Robert and Lord Hunter joking a moment before what was happening dawned on them, Ned watching as Rhaegar was about to stop in front of his sister (who must have been seated quite close), mad Aerys glowering in the distance, Elia stiff-backed and trying to act as if nothing was wrong, Jon Connington probably looking vaguely sad (read: jealous), and so on.

‘Stiff-backed and trying to act as if nothing was wrong’ hardly reads as ‘Elia was OK with Rhaegar crowning Lyanna’.

Not to mention that no woman would ever be OK with her husband publicly humiliating her in favour of another woman, so why does this argument even exist? Elia’s reaction should not be questioned at all.

“It was an arranged marriage, why shouldn’t Rhaegar be allowed to follow his heart?”

It was arranged for Elia as well. She didn’t want this any more than Rhaegar did. She was never but a faithful wife, so it’s only natural to expect that Rhaegar would be the same. Rhaegar isn’t entitled to anything. Rhaegar’s feelind do not matter more than politics. Rhaegar’s needs are not more important than Elia’s, and seeing how Rhaegar’s trouser’s needs sparked a war that costed Elia, Aegon and Rhaenys their lives, Rhaegar’s feelings definitely do not matter more than his family’s lives. Elia died. Aegon died. Rhaenys died. Rhaella died. Viserys had to leave the only home he had even known. Daenerys never had a home.

As a husband, as a father, it was Rhaegar’s responsibility to care for his wife and children, to stay with them, not to abandon them the moment his eyes caught a fourteen-year-old girl.

In her marriage, Elia had to:

marry a man she didn’t love.

abandon her home in Dorne and move to foreign King’s Landing.

live in a place openly hostile to her (”She smells Dornish”).

be sure her body was available to her husband whenever he wished, since the concept of marital rape does not exist.

bear as many heirs as needed, despite her fragile health.

simply accept it if Rhaegar were to take a mistress.

In his marriage, Rhaegar had to:

marry a woman he didn’t love.

So, who exactly got the short end of the stick? Elia. Who does the fandom act like he was the true victim? Rhaegar.

“Elia could not have any more children, so it’s very natural that Rhaegar would leave her for someone who could give him the third head”

Of all stuff I’ve heard, this angers me the most, because it boils down to ‘women’s sole fuction is baby-making, and if they break down, men have the right to replace them as if they’re machines’. Which is misogyny, plain and simple. Treating women as nothing else but means to further men’s causes and ambitions is misogyny. A woman’s worth is not measured by her ability to have children and make her husband happy! A woman is not meant to be exploited like a lifeless object and then put aside when a newer, better oner comes along.

Elia was not a baby-making machine. Elia was a human with feelings and emotions of her own, not a body to be used by Rhaegar and then to be thrown out when no longer useful. Westeros is a misogynistic society, but we, as readers, are meant to question the sexism, not endorse it, as people who use the ‘Elia is barren’ argument do.

Other things that Westerosi men are perfectly fine with include:

Girls having children as early as 13.

Women being legally raped by their husbands.

Low-born people being treated like shit by the highborn.

Women obeying either their husbands or fathers unconditionally.

Bastards being perceived as treacherous and untrustworthy.

Are we meant to agree with Westeros? No, we are not. We are meant to challenge those views. And this includes Elia being nothing more than a body to produce heirs for Rhaegar. Funny how those who bring up Elia’s inability to have children neglect to mention that women are also supposed to obey their fathers, but they rarely give Lyanna grief for disobeying Rickard in regards to marrying Robert Baratheon, and that bastards are vermin, yet adore Jon Snow.

Also, the argument feels really hollow when one remembers that Lyanna was a virgin before she met Rhaegar, which means that if Rhaegar was out there to find a fertile wife, choosing a girl who could as likely be an Alysanne as a second Elia was a poor choice. Lyanna did not have children prior, so how could have Rhaegar been so sure she’d give him the child Elia coudln’t? Considering how Lyanna died in childbirth (while Elia survived two childbirths), Lyanna is not, at the end of the day, in anyway superior to Elia.

This argument is sexist. This argument is ableist. Women, people, are not less worthy because of a body disability. Elia’s fragile health does not make her any less deserving of respect from her own husband.

Also, no, it’s not natural to go after another woman if your wife’s barren? It just does not happen.

Aemma Arryn managed to give King Viserys I Targaryen just one daughter, Rhaenyra, in more than a decade of marriage. Viserys never abandons her for another woman, and only marries Alicent Hightower after she’s dead.

Naerys Targaryen never managed to give King Aegon IV Targaryen another son after Daeron II was born. He never had another wife, not even after she died.

Rhaella Targaryen gave King Aerys II Targaryen just one son, Rhaegar, and it would take seventeen years before she’d give birth to Viserys. Still, Aerys II never tried to marry another woman.

Aerys II and Aegon IV were two infamously bad men and kings who abused their wives and kingdoms. Still, despite their need for an heir, they never persued other women. Both men disliked their sons, unlike Rhaegar, so they had an even greater reason to want another possible heir than he ever did. Bad as they were, they realised that polygamy was not a good solution to anything.

A man who did practise polygamy because of need ot an heir was Maegor I Targaryen. The Cruel. Who killed his wives. And who brought six years of tyranny to Westeros. Maegor is not a character to make parallels with, and yet his example is the closest to Rhaegar’s.

Elia had given Rhaegar an heir and a spare (yes, Rhaenys was the spare. No, Great Council 101′s decision not withstanding, since Aerys I was able to make his niece Aelora his heir ahead of men like Maekar, Daeron and Aerion. Yes, women could inherit the Iron Throne). They also had Viserys, just in case. Rhaegar leaving Elia because of lack of heirs is not a valid reason, and the third head of the dragon is even less of a reason, considering how Rhaegar had already misinterpreted the prophecy already. Abandoning his wife because his new interpretation could be kinda right, maybe, is likewise not a good enough reason.

“Elia let or even encouraged Rhaegar to go after Lyanna”

Most women, in Westeros as well as modern society, would not be OK with their husbands cheating on them, so how is Elia any different?

“She’s Dornish!”

No, not this argument again.

The Dornish practise feudalism like everyone else, and they are not polyamorous.

Why does this stereotype exist again? Ah yes, Oberyn. People take Oberyn’s example and apply it to the whole of Dorne. Even thought as for now, there’s not a single known Dornish character who had a wife and a mistress at the same time. But even if there were, so what? Rhaegar is not Dornish. Rhaegar does not get to use Elia’s culture against her.

Meanwhile, Oberyn was a second son, with an older brother with heirs of his own. Oberyn did not need to get married. Oberyn did not need to father legitimate children. Doran Martell’s been estranged from his wife for years, still does not take a mistress. Quentyn Martell died a virgin. Why aren’t their examples applied to the whole of Dorne?

“Well, Ellaria’s in an open relationship with Oberyn!”

Ellaria’s example cannot be applied to Elia, no more than Oberyn’s can. Ellaria is a bastard, Elia was a noble woman. Ellaria is a second son’s paramour, Elia was the future king’s wife. Ellaria’s children were bastards, and the younger ones too, standing to inherit nothing. Elia’s children were second and third in line of succession.

We definitely know that Oberyn got Ellaria’s consent. Rhaegar did not get Elia’s.

Even if we remove Dornish culture from the argument, why would Elia ever be OK with Rhaegar taking a second wife? OK with Rhaegar fathering legitimate heirs on another woman? Elia is married to House Targaryen. When it comes to the Targaryen, younger half siblings have always caused trouble for their older half siblings.

Aenys I and Maegor I: Maegor gives Aenys a lot of grief by taking a second wife (which angers the Faith), and after Aenys dies, kills two of Aenys’s sons and seizes the throne.

Rhaenyra and Aegon II: Although Viserys I made it crystal clear that Rhaenyra was to succeed him, Aegon II took the crown anyway and fought a war against his sister.

Daeron II and Daemon Blackfyre: Daeron II was seventeen years older than Daemon. He was trueborn, Daemon a bastard. Still, this resulted in a war.

Every single case of half siblings has seen the younger one usurping/trying to usurp the older one. Every single one. Why would Elia think this would be different? Why would Elia trust Lyanna not to push her own son’s rights? What if the case of Daeron II and Daemon is repeated? If Aegon grows up to be bookish and non-martial, and Lyanna’s son is the Warrior reborn, people will undoubtedly whisper that the younger son is much more fit to inherit a crown than Elia’s Aegon. What then? Lyanna will have the North to support her son’s rights, as well as everyone who prefers a martial king (read: around half of Westerosi people). And the Riverlands, since her brother will be married to a Tully of Riverrun. And the Vale of Arryn, since her other brother has been fostered by the Arryns. And maybe the Stormlands, since that same brother’s best friend is the Lord of Storm’s End. And maybe even the Reach, since the Tyrells are traditionally anti-Dornish. The Westerlands and the Iron Islands cannot be counted upon to help Elia’s cause, either. That only leaves Dorne, the least populated region.

Why would Elia ever risk her son’s rights like that? For a reason that isn’t basically “Rhaegar and Lyanna need to be happy and not be bothered over feelings of guilt”? We see Catelyn treating Jon as a threat, because technically he is, to her children’s inheritance rights. We see Cersei igniting a war in order to keep her own bloodline on the Throne. Why would Elia be any different?

So, no. Rhaegar was not morally allowed to leave Elia because he didn’t love her or because she couldn’t have any more children, nor was Elia fine with him taking a fourteen-year-old girl to wife. This argument needs to die. Rhaegar fucked up when it came to Elia, and this is not character hate, or even narrative-twisting to fit my own biases. This is Rhaegar’s character.

“Polygamy is a Targaryen thing, and accepted besides”

There are only three cases of Targaryen polygamy known to us; only one occured after they became kings; Maegor I.

The other one is Aegon I, and no, is not meant to be a parallel. “Aegon I married Visenya out of duty, Rhaenys out of desire” is not the same as “Rhaegar married Elia out of duty, Lyanna out of desire”. Aegon would have to marry Visenya first, then abandon her after three years to elope with Rhaenys, for this to be a proper parallel, which isn’t what happened. Not to mention that the younger son ended up usurping the throne from the older son’s line, which Elia would see as a red flag, not comfort.

The second one is Maegor; couldn’t sire heirs at all, had six wives, killed two or three of them, was a tyrrant, was hated by pretty much everyone. If one’s best example is Maegor, then their cause might not be worthy after all.

From Fire & Blood:

Saera: Why should I have just one husband? The Conqueror had two wives, and Maegor had six or eight.

Jaehaerys I: You would compare yourself to Maegor? Is that who you aspire to be?

Yeah, Maegor’s not a good example.

Also, both Aegon and Maegor had dragons.

Maegor the Cruel has multiple wives, from lines outside his own, so there was and is precedent. However, the extent to which the Targaryen kings could defy convention, the Faith, and the opinions of the other lords decreased markedly after they no longer had dragons. If you have a dragon, you can have as many wives as you want, and people are less likely to object. - So Spake Martin

Rhaegar had none.

#rhaegar targaryen #elia martell #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf #house targaryen #house martell #lyanna stark #house stark #asoiaf meta

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lj-todd · 5 years

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Can we get some more of Jon as omegas Neds son ficlet?

Ned sat in his solar, alone, silent, long after the rest of Winterfell had fallen to slumber. The fire had died down long ago, now little more than a glow in the hearth, and a faint chill had fallen over the room. But even the cold could not stop the whirlwind of the Omega’s thoughts.He still could not believe that his son had sailed across the world and returned with the Alpha that Ned had never stopped loving. The Alpha that Ned had dreamed of building a life, a family, with. The Alpha that, though torn from his life, had left just a tiny piece of himself behind for Ned in the form of a son that Ned loved and cherished in a way he didn’t the other children he had fathered.And now he was presented with the chance to let the truth finally come to light.And he was terrified. Of all it would mean. For him. For Jon. And for Connington.He barely heard the door quietly open but he caught the scent of the Alpha who, even now, nearly two decades later, managed to set his heart racing.“Ned?”

Ned shivered slightly at that voice. Familiar yet different. Years in Essos had shaped Connington into someone different. And yet that did not changed Ned’s feelings.Turning his head, the Omega watched as the fiery haired Alpha approached, slow, giving Ned time to dismiss him, to insist they wait to speak until morning, but Ned held his silence. Too long he had waited, too long he had hidden this part of himself, and now, faced with the Alpha he loved, he found he couldn’t do it anymore.“Jon,” he said, gesturing to the empty chair beside his, watching as the Alpha sat, those stunning eyes fixed on him with an intensity that made him shiver slightly.Connington reached out, reaching for Ned’s hand, but hesitated, started to draw back as though reconsidering his place in Ned’s heart and the Omega Lord reflexively reached out caught the Alpha’s hand, lacing their fingers together.They sat for a moment, staring at one another, Connington’s grip tightening a fraction, and Ned gave a small, tender smile.“I’ve missed you,” the Omega whispered as Connington leaned towards him. “Almost twenty years…”“I know,” Connington whispered back, leaning in closer, close enough that Ned could feel the heat of the Alpha’s breath on his skin. “I’ve missed you too, Ed.” He smiled and Ned’s heart skipped a beat. “And our son…Seven, Ed, he’s beautiful. So very much like you.”“How did you know,” Ned asked, half afraid of the answer. “How did you know he…”“You think I wouldn’t recognize my own pup?” Connington chuckled. “Besides, stories of the honorable Eddard Stark fathering a bastard reached even the far shores of Essos, darling. It wasn’t terribly difficult to piece it together even before I met him.”“And Rhaegar’s boy?” Ned couldn’t help but ask. “How did you come to have him in your care?”“Careful planning, between a handful of people that Rhaegar trusted completely and Princess Elia.” Connington’s smile was soft and warm. “Aegon is a good boy. Strong and confident. In ways even Rhaegar never was.”“Why bring him here? Why risk Robert discovering him?”“Because,” Connington said softly but firmly. “He’s no longer a child and he has ambitions, Ed. Ambitions I fully intend to help him realize.”“Griff…”“Aerys was a monster,” Connington pressed, giving Ned’s hand a squeeze. “I will never deny nor forget it. But his entire family suffered for it, Ed. All save three children died for it. Aegon is not his grandfather. He is Rhaegar. He is Rhaella. He is Elia. He deserves the chance to take back the throne that was stolen from him.”Ned said nothing for a moment. Studying the Alpha. Weighing the man’s words.“You came here to ask something of me,” he finally whispered. “Ask it.”“We have an army, ready to land, but we will need support already in Westeros beyond what we already have.”Ned frowned, about to ask what support the Alpha and young exiled Prince had, but he quickly realized it had to be Dorne. Doran Martell would support his nephew over any other claimant to the Iron Throne. Not only out of family loyalty but spite and what Doran supported Oberyn would enforce.“If Aegon had Dorne and the North, he would command a force that Robert could not hope to put down.”“And other families would join him,” Connington agreed. “We could take back the Iron Throne for him.”Ned said nothing for a moment, thinking on it, thinking on what the Alpha, his Alpha was asking of him and, strangely, his thoughts turned to their son. To how Jon and Aegon had looked at one another. How they had acted with one another. A man would have to be blind to not see the bond already forming between them.“What of Jon,” Ned asked softly. “I see how Aegon looks at him.”“And how does he look at our son, Ed?”It was a redundant question. One they both knew the answer to. But Ned answered it regardless.“Like you look at me.”Connington’s smile widened as he pressed a kiss, soft and sweet but lingering, teasing, to Ned’s lips, making the Omega whine softly.“You are asking me to betray my friend,” Ned whispered against the Alpha’s lips. “I am asking you to support the boy our son loves,” Connington corrected softly. “I’m asking you to trust me. To help me right something even you claimed was wrong.”“Jon…” Ned murmured the Alpha’s name but Connington pressed another kiss to his lips, this one fierce and passionate and Ned’s free hand flew to tangle in the Alpha’s hair.When they drew apart, both breathing heavily, leaning into one another, Ned knew his answer. He had known it the moment Connington had ridden through the gates of Winterfell with their son and the last son of House Targaryen.Gods, Old and New, forgive him, but Ned Stark would raise House Stark and the North in rebellion against the Iron Throne.

#Anonymous #ned stark #jon connington #ned x jon #au #alpha/beta/omega au #alpha/beta/omega dynamics #alpha/beta/omega verse #game of thrones #asoiaf #ficlet #drabble

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thundersnowstorm · 5 years

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Anonymous asked: I loved your RobbxRhaenys fic! How do you think the pairing would work if Rhaegar had won? Is he a ward like Theon, is she a bastard? Do they hate each other?

(posted as a regular text post bc tumblr fucked up and i lost the original ask)

ahh nonny thank you so much!!

i actually have a whole rhaegar wins au planned out in my head (maybe i’ll write some of it at some point, first i gotta finish the crownless fic follow-up oneshot). but here’s a general run down of how robb x rhaenys might play out in this world.

under the cut since this turned out wayy longer than expected

basic premise: rhaegar kills robert at the trident and wins the war. meanwhile in king’s landing, jaime still kills aerys when his madness gets too much, or when he reveals the caches of wildfire. tywin stays carefully neutral throughout the war. upon returning to the city, rhaegar is crowned king. lyanna still dies in childbirth.

rhaenys and aegon are legitimate. show canon and i do not get along lmao. jon, the semi-acknowledged bastard of the king, is taken to winterfell to be raised because elia is not risking another blackfyre rebellion, and ned wants lyanna’s kid to be raised in her home. rhaegar is just guilt-striken enough over lyanna’s death to allow it.

jon visits king’s landing on occasion as he gets older. he and rhaegar have a weird relationship (there’s a lot of angst there, a lot of unresolved issues). jon and aegon do get along though, which everyone is secretly relieved about. it takes rhaenys longer to warm up to jon. she remembers the rebellion, she remembers how hurt her mother was when rhaegar dropped everything for lyanna. rhaenys has never quite forgiven rhaegar. eventually, with encouragement from aegon, she strikes up a tentative friendship with jon.

with lyanna, brandon and rickard dead, house stark has suffered enough and rhaegar lets them go without asking them for much more. however, robb is asked (ordered) to visit king’s landing when he gets older. everyone has suddenly realized that house stark is a much bigger power than previously thought, and it’s a good idea for the iron throne to stay on good terms with the future warden of the north.

(by contrast, jon arryn is sent to the wall at the end of the rebellion. he didn’t have the advantage of being related to the new king’s dead lover to save him. the vale is passed down to harry hardying with one of the lords acting as regent. in the stormlands, stannis bends the knee and becomes lord. he marries cersei and it is the single most entertaining marriage in westeros.)

still, despite all the work queen elia and jon connington and the rest of the small council put into repairing relations with the north, they remain very frosty. ned certainly never forgives rhaegar. he’s not about to go to war again, but he’s also never going to step foot in king’s landing again. robb grows up with a distinctly antagonistic view of the iron throne, and the belief that it’s better for the north to keep to itself and stay out of politics of the realm. still, his childhood is more or less the same as it was in canon.

rhaenys is a force to be reckoned with at court. she grew up at her mother’s elbow, learning the nuts and bolts of ruling, how everything happens behind the scenes. oberyn taught her how to fight with a dagger (same as in crownless), as well as a few tricks to suss out people’s secrets. when she visits dorne, she watches doran, compares his style of ruling to her mother’s, to her father’s. if westeros had absolute primogeniture, rhaenys would make a formidable queen. as it is, she is aegon’s number one pick for hand for when he eventually takes the throne, scandal be damned.

her circle of friends is certainly an interesting mix. myrcella baratheon (a bit older and an actual baratheon this time) and margaery tyrell are conventional ladies in waiting, but they’re also both vying for aegon’s hand. meanwhile the sand snakes are the terror of the court and oberyn thinks it’s hilarious. rhaenys thinks tyene should stop pretending to poison mace tyrell. when arianne visits - well, things can get interesting. no one can quite tell if tyrion lannister and princess rhaenys hate each other or not, but their debates are certainly fun to watch.

(hmm, maybe theon also ends up in king’s landing. robert trusted ned to watch over him in winterfell but rhaegar and ned have a very different relationship. idk where i’m going with this train of thought, but it would certainly add a new dynamic to rhaenys’s little court.)

rhaenys is not betrothed. it’s unusual, and people have started to comment on it. she is one and twenty and the most eligible woman in the land. there’s quite a bit of interest for her hand, but elia has decided that rhaenys will have a say in her marriage, and rhaegar oscillates between not caring much about the matter and toying with the idea of marrying her to aegon, in the old tradition. rhaenys has told him that if he even tries to marry them, she will elope with the first man she can find and wouldn’t that be quite the scandal? so rhaenys remains unmarried.

(the biggest difference in rhaenys here from rhaenys in the crownless fic is that here, rhaenys knows power. not only was she born into power but she has grown into it as well. she will do her duty to her family and the realm, but she will not sacrifice her own happiness unless there is no other choice. as practical as she is, marriage alliances are off the table.)

this is a lot of setup to get to robb and rhaenys making out but bear with me lol.

robb goes to king’s landing shortly after turning eighteen upon request (summons) from the throne, accompanied by catelyn, sansa, and arya. it’s skirting on rude for ned not to come, but rhaegar lets it slide. he’s lyanna’s brother, and there’s a lot that rhaegar feels guilty about concerning lyanna. anyway, it’s robb’s second time in king’s landing, but the first time he’d been fourteen and rhaenys had hardly noticed him. now though, there’s a bit of “oh shit he’s hot now” before robb makes it clear he’s only here out of obligation. then rhaenys decides that there’s no reason for the two of them to interact and that is that.

(or is it, asks the author in a leading tone.)

so really, there’s no reason for robb and rhaenys to speak to each other. rhaenys is busy with a discrepancy in taxes coming from the vale, and robb is busy trying to avoid southroners at all costs. but circumstances bring them together somehow. maybe there’s a conspiracy afoot, and they have to work together to stop it. maybe rhaenys is forced to show robb around the keep. or maybe rhaenys finds the quiet of the godswood peaceful and robb keeps coming across her there.

“this isn’t a real godswood. not without a proper weirwood heart tree, like the ones in the north.” “mayhaps you can show me a proper godswood someday, my lord.”

really, they have nothing in common, there’s nothing they should have to talk about, but rhaenys finds robb’s frank honesty refreshing after all the double talk at court, and robb thinks she’s probably the cleverest woman he knows. somewhere along the line they become each other’s refuge from all the politics and mistrust of king’s landing.

there’s a feast one day, celebrating some important occasion or whatnot. and there’s dancing and mead, and rhaenys can’t remember the last time she had this much fun. she and robb slip away into the gardens to cool off in the night air and well. rhaenys will blame it on a few too many cups of dornish red but robb’s lips fit perfectly against hers and he tastes like cinammon.

robb panics. this is the princess he is kissing, daughter of the king who brought so much pain upon his family. gods this is jon’s sister, and robb’s father always told him to behave honorably towards women and the thoughts he’s having are certainly not honorable. so robb runs.

rhaenys is furious. well, really she’s embarrassed but anger is easier. for the next week or so she is a nightmare to be around. not that she’d admit to anyone that she’s in a bad mood. meanwhile, robb is moping and hiding from everyone and probably spending most of his time sparring.

jon, who isn’t blind and is absolutely done with them, practically forces robb to talk to rhaenys. he doesn’t care what happened, he just wants the two of them to get over themselves and stop being so insufferable. also rhaenys made one of the goldcloaks cry and no one quite knows how that happened.

so they talk. and robb apologizes for kissing her, which rhaenys is quick to tell him is absolutely ridiculous, she’s the one who initiated it and besides, it was just a kiss.

well, that one kiss turns into quite a few more.

there aren’t really words for what they are to each other. if she were anyone else, robb would probably ask for her hand, but she’s the princess of the realm, not some petty lord’s daughter. and rhaenys doesn’t want to think about putting a label on them, because that would mean thinking about how the two of them fit in the future. and since they aren’t betrothed and king’s landing isn’t dorne, no one can know about their…. whatever.

then rhaegar starts bringing up the subject of rhaenys’s betrothal again. aegon isn’t on the table, since he and margaery tyrell are all but promised to each other at last, but perhaps willas tyrell would do, or maybe harry hardyng in the vale. lady paramount is a perfectly acceptable role for the sister to the future king.

(robb isn’t mentioned as an option. he might be of the right status, but relations between ned and rhaegar are still quite frosty, and the realm still doesn’t quite see the north as equal to the southern kingdoms.)

rhaenys knows, intellectually, that she must marry someday. and really, willas tyrell and harry hardyng are just suggestions. she could always look for a second son for a husband, so she could stay in king’s landing. but she doesn’t want to marry a stranger, and she doesn’t want to leave the city, and the only person she can think of is her cousin quentyn, and arianne would kill her if she married quent.

robb learns about the discussions for rhaenys’s hand from rumors floating around the court. and really, he shouldn’t care who rhaenys marries, it’s not like they’re anything more than good friends who kiss sometimes. or at least, that’s what he tries to tell himself.

he’s not very good at convincing himself.

“marry me,” robb blurts out. rhaenys stops dead in her tracks. “what?”

rhaenys says no. winterfell is about as far as it gets from king’s landing, and she does not wish to be sent away to a frozen wasteland where she knows close to nobody. there is so much she can do at court, so much change she could help affect, and she cannot do that in the north.

she explains this all to robb and he shrugs. “we could stay in the south.”

rhaenys is not often surprised. this makes it twice today that she has been struck speechless.

robb does not like court, as she is quick to remind him.

“no, but i like you.”

they talk late into the night. the sun is starting to peek out behind the treeline when rhaenys says yes.

(the issue was not that she did not wish to marry robb. quite the opposite. but if she is to be a part of the politics of realm, she cannot do so effectively in winterfell all the time. so they talk, and debate, and eventually a plan is drawn up for where they will reside.)

of course, this is all dependent on rhaegar and ned accepting. robb’s time in king’s landing is drawing to a close, and so he returns to winterfell to ask for his father’s permission. rhaenys goes to talk to rhaegar and elia.

rhaegar is surprised, to say the least. elia, who has been quietly watching her daughter’s flirtation-turned-courtship for the past months, is not. in the end, the discussion is rather short. robb stark is heir to one of the great houses, and the iron throne desperately needs better relations with the north. there’s little to oppose.

ned, on the other hand, is more reluctant to bind the starks to the royal family so officially. he loves his nephew dearly, but he cannot forget the circumstances under which jon was born. but robb seems to care for this southron princess, and catelyn is right, they cannot try to stay out of southron politics forever.

robb and rhaenys are married in the godswood at riverrun, halfway between their families’ castles. for the wedding of a royal princess and the heir to the north, it’s a surprisingly lowkey affair. but robb hardly notices much other than rhaenys, resplendent in dornish silks, and rhaenys for once lets herself forget about the politics and the future, and just lets robb lead her around in a sloppy rendition of the bear and the maiden fair.

(robb is not a great dancer, but he is definitely an enthusiastic one. rhaenys thinks it’s charming.)

it isn’t easy all the time. splitting time between winterfell and king’s landing means endless amounts of travelling, and they aren’t always in the same kingdom together. there are fights, and long nights working, and sometimes the politics at court get to be too much for both of them, but for all their differences, robb and rhaenys love each other. and maybe that’s all that’s needed.

god this got long, and this is really only a sketch of what that scenario would look like. maybe i’ll write a proper fic for this universe sometime, we’ll see.

thanks again anon!

#rhaenys targaryen #robb stark #asoiaf au #asks #anonymous #asoiaf #sara writes stuff #asoiafrare #robb x rhaenys #my headcanons

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turtle-paced · 6 years

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Love the blog, and thanks for your help the other day! I really loved what you said about Jon Snow being a deconstruction of royal and fantasy tropes, and I'd love to read more about that. Also, I'm wondering if all the ASOIAF Key 5 are a deconstruction, examination, or commentary on literary tropes. I feel like some jump out like Dany or Bran with their "chosen one"/"Messianic" narratives, but I'm not sure where Tyrion or Arya would fit. Thanks in advance!

No problems!

Most major characters in ASoIaF are deconstructions, commentary, and with any luck ultimately reconstructions of some very familiar fantasy character archetypes.

Ned’s a mentor character whose experience came from the last war. He’s got lingering trauma from that experience and many of his political and parental failures stem from how he handles that trauma. But he did teach his children some important lessons about resilience, justice, and love that will help see them through the series.

This post says a bit about how Catelyn’s a take on genre conventions. Robb, meanwhile, is a take on the supporting leader (we see how his more narratively important siblings rely on his success, and only his failure allows them to step up) and the young conqueror (his military successes aren’t sufficient, and trying to handle all those responsibilities is very rough on a teenage boy).

The Stark sisters are two different types of princess. Sansa’s the classical, Disney version, who once upon a time would be holed up in a tower singing for her prince and having men sigh over how good and pure and beautiful she is. ASoIaF asks into the psychological impacts of her captivity, and shows us the soft skills this character needs to make a difference in this world. Arya, meanwhile, is the princess who doesn’t want to be a princess, and so her story deals with her attempts to bridge that class gap and the issues with doing so (see: Mycah, Gendry), and what it looks like when she actually is cut off from the resources her class gives her.

Bran, the kid wizard, is one of the series’ many takes on the hero’s journey. Enormous magical gifts, but a) he doesn’t yet know how to use them, b) he shows a child’s immaturity and lack of appreciation for consequences in using his power (as seen with his treatment of Hodor), and c) never wanted a career in magic anyway.

Dany’s also a take on the hero’s journey, but she mixes it up by working with a lot of villain tropes, as I wrote about a few months ago. Tyrion’s a lot like Catelyn, narratively, in that his character gives depth and interiority to the evil (and often physically ugly or disabled) chancellors that hang about the genre. Not a character archetype that usually gets development, there.

Cersei, of course, is the evil queen to the hilt, and so GRRM shows us the limits of her tactics and how those tactics damage her as well. It’s not that she’s just evil and promiscuous - she doesn’t like seducing men, but her misogyny and lack of imagination leave her unable to think of other options. Her personal relationships throughout her entire life are also chock full of abuse, and she’s both perpetrator and victim. Jaime’s service as that smug asshole who does the big bad’s military dirty work is motivated by love, but that doesn’t make him any less of an asshole (and prone to self-delusion), his love for his dysfunctional family conflicts with itself, and even that love has its limits as a motivating force when he somehow keeps ending up doing terrible things for that love.

I could keep going - the Baratheon brothers as three distinct and failed examinations of the Good King; Varys, Littlefinger and Doran as three distinct and failed chessmasters; Brienne the lady knight; Melisandre and the Gandalf comparison; Davos and his social mobility; magical evil overlord Euron and mundane evil overlord Tywin; Aegon and Quentyn - but it’s a long series and I have to call a halt somewhere.

#ASoIaF #ned stark #catelyn stark #robb stark #sansa stark #arya stark #bran stark #daenerys targaryen #tyrion lannister #cersei lannister #jaime lannister #asks

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thelawyerthatwaspromised · 5 years

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What do you think about the theory that Jon, Sansa, Arya, and Gendry are supposed to represent Aegon i, Rhaenys, Visenya, and Orys respectively? Jon = Aegon because he’s the heir to the IT. Sansa = Rhaenys because she favours courtly graces over swordplay. Arya = Visenya because she favours swordplay to courtly graces. And Gendry = Orys because he’s a bastard but also the last of the house Orys himself started. And that Jon + Sansa will marry because Aegon favoured Rhaenys to Visenya?

I definitely see the comparison for Jon, Sansa, Arya and Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya. There are a very select few in the fandom who fancy themselves high and mighty that might disagree with that comparison but really it’s almost as obvious to me as Sansa/Arya to Doran/Oberyn or Brandon/Ned to Robb/Jon.

I really want to focus on the last part of your comparison actually!

Where I’m less confident is Gendry = Orys. Where Gendry is a bastard of House Baratheon, it was actually rumored that Orys was a bastard of House Targaryen but he was popularly recognized as a Baratheon.

The character I actually think resembles Orys the most would be Jaime Lannister. Orys was known as the “King’s Stump” because he lost his hand and became very bitter about it - but then went on to serve as basically the first Hand of the King. As you may or may not have seen, I think there’s really strong evidence that Jaime ends up as Jon’s Hand at the end of things.

Here’s a really good summation by @fedonciadale (post here) of the idea which I’m pretty sure was first broached by @julibf on (reddit post here).

Basically, Orys was a fierce warrior. Lost his hand. Was Hand of the King. Slew the last House Durrandon (Cersei OR Tyrion!?) and lived a fairly distinguished, if not savagely violent, life.

I think it fits Jaime better than Orys but I’m not going to discount the chance that Gendry could eventually go through the same relative arc as Orys but probably without losing a hand or becoming Hand. GRRM always makes these things so they could apply any number of different ways.

Thanks for the ask!

#jaime lannister #gendry #house stark #aegon the conqueror #house baratheon #interesting ask #hadn't thought about Orys much before

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forme-iwrite · 5 years

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Asoiaf meme- Rules: Answer the 10 questions below. Then make up 10 of your own for the next person to answer and tag people thanks for tagging me @1nsaankahanhai-bkr

1.Are there any literary parallels between your favourite character and some other character?(I have many .I will probably make a list some day) I am sure there is but I can’t think of any right now. I will probably follow your lead and make a list of of my own one day. 2.What’s one thing you wished grrm explored more? I would love if he explored the characters of Irri and Jhiqui more, especially because they have been with Dany since the beginning. I feel like they and the rest of the Khalasar have been pushed to the side to almost no importance with each new book. I love Missandei but I feel as if GRRM brought her into the story replace Irri and Jhiqui as Dany’s female companions. I want to see more of all the female friendships in the series. I also wished he explored the history of other houses/regions besides the Targaryens. By which I mean I want to know more of Martell and Dorne specifically. 3.Is there a character that fandom loves but you despise (apart from elia’s husband) Jon Arryn. I see him get a lot of love and praise but I despise him, especially for how he disregarded the injustice that the Martells got. He was the one who actually declared war on Aerys because he asked for the heads of Ned and Robert but turns his head at the murder of Aegon, Rhaenys, and Elia. Nevermind it’s not Jon it’s actually Robert Baratheon. He was an absolutely terrible king, father, husband, and friend. I think very little would have changed about him if he married Lyanna and he just uses her as an excuse. 4.Fave non canon pair? Elia and Arthur. Also Love Rhaenys x Robb and Doran x Rhaella. 5.If you could change one in- verse subplot what would it be? I don’t know if I would actually change anything because the story is still not finished, but the subplot that I found the most boring to read was probably the iron islands subplot. I know it probably has a greater importance but I just wanted to skip a lot of chapters that took place there. 6.What’s the one thing about your favourite character that you can’t stand or find irritating? The way Jon acts towards Gilly, especially when he makes her trade her baby with Dalla’s baby. 7.Is there anything that would make you defend your least favourite character?(eg- ragger was not madly in love. He was just mad) Maybe if Tywin Lannister didn’t go out of his way to murder innocent people. 8.Favourite Jon ship? (Although he is dead) do you think he will come back? I do not ship Jon with anyone but I liked the small interaction he had with Alys Karstark. I do think he will come back because “who his mother is” would not be such an important question within the books if that is where his story ended. I also think he has a big part to play in the white walker storyline but there is always that small doubt that he might not come back because a lot has changed since grrm started the series to now. 9.Your worst experience with fandom racists? I am lucky enough not to have experienced any of the racist in the fandom, which sadly there seems to be many. I am luck to follow people who have pretty much all the same interest as me. Also blacklisting helps a lot. 10.What do you think of Quentyn/young griff Quentyns storyline I personally felt was cut too short. Also it was not explored enough, I wanted to see more of his journey to essos and relationship with his friends. I feel like he felt a lot of pressure by both Dany and Doran, which was the reason he went in with the dragons. Though he should have listened to his friends and at the end his death falls mostly on his hands. I definitely feel like he was a good person with good intentions. He was only trying to make his father proud and bring justice for Dorne. His death really affected me because he felt like such an innocent player in this game. Why couldn’t the beginning of {The Queen’s Hand} chapter started with “The Dornish prince was three days recovering” instead of “three days dying”. Young Griff is such a mystery because of his involvement with Varys and illyrio mopatis. They are the main reason I doubt if he is Aegon, though I really want him to be. Even if he turns out to be an impostor, I hope he helps Arianne and Doran complete their plan. I immediately took a liking to him and found his storyline very interesting. He is well educated, trained, and knows the difficulties of life, not just it’s pleasures. He definitely has the qualities to potentially be a good ruler. There are parts where he does seem immature (ex. When he throws the chess board at tyrion) but overall he is not a bad person. From the previews of “The winds of winter” it seems like he is doing well and hopefully we will get more of him. Also because he is doing so well (captured both Storm’s End and Griffin’s Roost) I doubt Doran will question/care if he really is Aegon. There is a lot to say about both boys but my overall thought on them is that I love both characters.

My ten questions are: 1.Did you ever feel sympathy for a character you disliked? 2.Is there a setting you would like a P.O.V from? (ex. What is happening in the reach with the ironborn/ beyond the wall in Hardhome) 3.What do you feel was the most heart wrenching moment for you to read? 4.Which of the prologues did you find the most intriguing to read? 5.If you could go back and give a warning to one character who would it be? And what would you say? 6.If there is even an iron throne by the end, which of the contenders do you think would make the most reasonable ruler. 7.Do you have a favorite background character? 8.When you began the series was there a character you immediately liked but as the story went on you began to dislike? 9.Which of the houses/region would you love to get more in depth history on? 10.Out of Varys and littlefinger who do you think has created the most chaos?

@saantanico @aliadayne @laughingvioleteyes @askmamaindia @sayruq @astroboxuniverse @alyssaallyrion

#asoiaf #asoiaf meme #my thoughts #thanks for the tag!

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diguerra-moved · 5 years

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❝ There’s no shame in fear, my father told me, what matters is how we face it. ❞ / ashara 8)

✧ A SONG OF FIRE AND ICE SENTENCE PROMPTS ! // accepting.

“Your father was a wise man.” Robb Stark does not look like him; Eddard Stark had had the long face common to the northerners, dark brown hair and dark grey eyes. When they were young, he had been considered plain of looks, specially in comparison to his eldest brother; but even now, years without seeing his face, she remembered him (remembered the gentleness behind his stern looks, the sweetness concealed beneath the surface). His eldest son looked all his mother, it was easy to tell. His curls were auburn and his eyes blue; yet he held himself as a king and a northerner, and if his looks were all Tully, it was plain to see he was a Stark of Winterfell, Ned Stark’s firstborn son.

Ashara Dayne had suffered his loss once; but it had been only the loss of their possible future, the loss of love instead of life. And if wound had been true, she would much prefer to know he was alive and well somewhere in the distant North, with his Lady Catelyn and their children, than that he had died with his name tainted, worse of all at Lannister hands. Would it ever end? They took lives endlessly, killed those least deserving of it, remaining beyond the reach of justice time and again. A Lannister always pays their debts, they said; the list of what they had yet to pay for seemed to only grow in length, the only ones to receive any payment those rewarded for making the atrocities in the name of the Lions.

King’s Landing had never brought any happiness to her or to any that she had loved. There was not one thing about court that had made her joyous, and if the king had been a different person in her youth, she could not see how a man who climbed in his throne stepping on the corpse of innocent children could be any great improvement. Elia had died in the capital — had been murdered there, alongside little Rhaenys and baby Aegon. If Arthur had not found his demise there, it had been his loyalty to the crown prince and the throne that led him to death also. Now Ned, too, had perished there.

He should never have gone South again; not knowing what befell his father and brother and sister so many years ago. Nevertheless, Ned had been a good man, and stronger and braver than she could ever hope to be; Ashara had never dared set foot on the Red Keep again, never even wanted to let others of her family to do so (and hadn’t it been wiser also, knowing that Edric had yet to return home?). “Facing fears is seldom an easy thing to do, though I can see I needn’t say it for you to know it, Your Grace.”

“Your father was an honorable man also. He deserved a better fate than that.” It is not empty courtesies, and she bothers only with concealing emotion as much as it would be proper. Eyes of violet carry honesty in them that is plain to see; honesty, beyond the tiredness and melancholy that have become inherent to them so long ago. Political games did not matter to her, truly; she cared only for justice to those who deserve it and had yet to receive it. Dorne had yet to move, their prince set on waiting for the right moment to strike; but Ashara Dayne was not Dorne, and she had held the Starks close to her heart also. Doran and Oberyn had their own plans, plans she guessed looked towards East instead of North, to yet another dragon.

How much justice would Daenerys Targaryen bring them? Rhaegar had been considered born to greatness also, yet his actions had brought them only harm. It wasn’t her place to question, neither to disobey her liege lords. Would that she could offer the Young Wolf support; but just as she was bound first to her land and her princess during the Rebellion, so she was bound to Dorne and the Martells first and foremost now. No, hers was not a quest of politics; and it was Ned’s other son that she sought to reach amidst the war-torn land.

“Your Grace,” Best to name him king than the Lannister-Baratheon boy who sat the throne, truly. Even then, Ashara has little wish to deal with kings; any man who held as much power became hard to predict, difficult to speak to. She hoped Ned’s son would weigh in her sincere words fairly. “I have no quarrel with you, and I believe you to have a just cause if one I cannot offer you any aid in fighting for. I seek only to continue my journey North. Perhaps it is an insignificant quest amidst so many fighting for justice or crowns — but it is one I would like to complete nonetheless.”

“I have learned your brother to be at the Wall; give me your leave and I shall be on my way. We will trouble you no further. My purpose North is only to find Jon Snow.”

#wclfcrown #* in character: answered / DARK WINGS WERE KNOWN TO BRING DARK WORDS.#* muse: ashara dayne / FALLEN STAR.#* in character: ashara dayne / HER HEART WAS BROKEN.#* verse 004: ashara dayne / SHE FADES; BEARER OF SCARS THE OTHERS CANNOT SEE.#idk I wanted a reason for their paths to cross and her going to find jon since she's like one of the last people who'd know who his mom is #seemed like an ok excuse aisdfjkasndfksd #thanks for that tho ily friend <3

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mmazzeroo · 5 years

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Chapter 19: NED V - There’s Something About Wolves

@helloimnotawesome - VAAAAL, I’m so sorry, for being late. I got distracted. In case you haven’t noticed that’s a thing with me. Know you probably won’t have time to read this now, so maybe in a day or two after your graduation? ;) You’ll nock their socks off tomorrow, sis!

Anyway, here’s chapter 19 for you. Another 3k whopper for you. Enjoy!

NED V - There’s Something About Wolves

'That was immensely entertaining!' Well, at least someone is enjoying this! Underneath the table he gave his wife's hand a little squeeze and felt a tight one in return. Cat's attempt to comfort him while also showing her concern for Jon. He wanted to sigh, but this wasn't the time nor place so he settled for drawing a slow deep breath to calm himself. The day started off so well. From Jon's tears of joy, to Sansa walking so proudly in her beautiful dress, and of course the wedding ceremony itself.

All guests had been seated inside the Sept when the first big wave of cheering from the crowd outside hit, signalling the arrival of Robb and Jon. Rhaella had leaned past him whispering to Catelyn, 'let the swooning commence.' Once again he'd found himself between two grown women giggling like teenagers. When the young men entered the Sept and walked down the aisle there were gasps and muttering across the echoing room. 'Oh my, he sure does carry that uniform well,' Rhaella had said, 'if I was 25-30 years younger I would've climbed that like a tree.' Catelyn snorted before composing herself whereas he had been struggling to contain his laughter. Always trust a Targaryen to deliver the unexpected comment. Fuck's sake, Ella! When the bridal procession entered the room had filled with oh's, and aw's at little Rhaenys and Aegon, and ending with gasps and more muttering when they saw Dany and Marg. Again, Cat and Ella's predictions had been spot on: Neither of the couples could take their eyes of each other - nor did they seem to notice anyone else around. Seeing Dany standing almost in a trance just staring at Jon throughout the ceremony had made him chuckle. Like mother like daughter it seems. Ella had given him a look saying she was thinking the same, and to avoid laughing out loud they'd had to both look away.

Now though... Gods! Who was that wretched woman to Jon? And what did he know of her past? The second he saw Dany and Jon entering for the dinner he knew something was off. Dany had managed to cast a quick glance towards the Ambassador before sitting down, but not able to give any clarifications she had to resolve to sharing worried looks with him and Catelyn across the table. Jon had kept to himself. Quiet. Head down. Short answers. Initially he'd thought his son to be sad or tired. Wouldn't blame him if he'd felt shellshocked from all the attention and people he'd been exposed to today. Turned out he was simply trying to keep his brewing fury under check.

Everyone at the table cast worried glances at each other; except for the Ambassador who was still smirking and the President who was still laughing. As Loras returned to the table shaking his head the President's laugh was instantly replaced with an intense look directed at the Melisandre. Loras whispered something to Dany who abruptly stood up and turned to Olenna.

Without taking her eyes of the Ambassador, the Queen of Thorns said, "don't worry about protocol, child, go find him. But Dr. Targaryen—

Dany, who had already been on her way, quickly turned to look back at the President, "yes, Madam President?"

"— do not rush him, he's a wounded caged animal right now."

"Understood, Madam President," and she was gone. Trying, and failing, to not run until out of the room.

Olenna just nodded still looking at the Ambassador. Is that a tiny smile on the President's face? For Dany or for the red woman?

In a calming gesture Margaery placed a hand on his arm as she leaned closer and whispered, "Ned, don't worry. Grandma is smelling blood. She'll put the Ambassador in her place." Then she winked, sat back properly in her seat and turned to smile at her husband. Hope you're right, sweet Marg!

"So Ambassador," Olenna said in her usual calm and dry tone, "do enlighten us as to why Lord Dayne so emphatically called you 'priestess'."

Statement, not a question. Once a lawyer, always a lawyer I suppose. Looking at Jon does she see Ashara too? In a few weeks he'll be older than his mother had the chance to be - and soon Arya too will have lived longer than Lyanna did. Why am I reminded of such tragedy at such a joyous occasion? Oh right, the bloody Ambassador from one of the Seven Hells!!

"Simple Madam President," the red woman said in same sultry tone she'd spoken to Jon, "because I used to be one."

"Oh I know." Olenna waved a dismissing hand at Melisandre. "As President I know that. I'm privy to such information, however it isn't common knowledge so try again, Ambassador." Somehow her intense look managed to increase in tensity. "It's interesting though, how information as to what temple or temples you must've served at is redacted from even the reports and files I've received about you, priestess."

That had the Ambassador shift in her seat. Slightly, but it was still noted around the table. As was the fact that she had to look away for a few seconds.

"Alright, you don't need to speak, Ambassador." If possible, the President's eyes would've burned a hole in the Ambassor by now. "I'll think out loud and if I say anything factually incorrect, you'll jump in and correct me. Deal?" Before anyone could utter a word she continued, "perfect. Marvellous!"

Again Oberyn and Tyrion chuckled. The little lion was trying to hide his smile behind his cup of wine. This must be like old times for the two of them! Both had trained as lawyers under Olenna's eagle eyes. When she accepted Doran Martell's offer of becoming Vice President she handed over her law firm and clients to her two apprentices. Later, Oberyn left to take up office as King's Landing's District Attorney which left Tyrion. He was currently juggling the law practice with being interim Lord of Casterly Rock. When Tywin Lannister died the seat had of course passed to Cersei, however since she was deemed a danger to herself, and society, she'd been placed in a mental facility. Luckily, Tywin had had Joffrey written out of the succession stating he was as insane as his mother. Next in line was Jaime who had declined saying he was a surgeon and knew nothing about running an estate, thus Tyrion had been the one to grab the piton. Though he swore he'd only do so until Myrcella or Tommen was 'ready, able and willing' to take the family seat. Cersei and Robert's divorce had been very public and very ugly. End result was Robert drinking and whoring himself to an early grave, and Cersei and Joffrey locked up in looney bins on each their continent. The two youngest Lannister children, however, had blossomed while living with their Uncle Jaime.

He turned to look at the table where Myrcella and Tommen sat together with Shireen, Sansa, Arya and the little Targaryens. Rhae, Elia, Missandei and Grey was there as well to help keep an eye on things. Arya and Tommen seemed to be having a laugh at Grey's expense, but the good natured Essosi just shook his head and smiled. He turned back to the drama at his own table and caught a look shared between Rhaella and the President. What was that about? Do they have a shared suspicion? Does Ella have an inkling about what might've set Jon off?

"The Captain met you somewhere in Essos. On a so called black op. The Lord Commander of the Night's Watch is authorised to assign teams for black ops without prior approval from the President." She paused to look at everyone around the table. Her grandchildren were both enjoying their meals. As a Tyrell I guess political drama and candid talk is just part of everyday life. As were Ella, Oberyn and Tyrion. Robb seemed mesmerised by the President, and Catelyn was clutching her wine cup in one hand and his hand in the other. "Given the sensitive nature of such missions the reports from the Lord Commander to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the President are more often than not redacted. I'm sure you knew this and thought you'd be protected by it in some way."

Wait, did she say black ops? Jon joined the Night's Watch from North of the Wall. The legal age is lower up there. So Jon must've only been 15? Maybe 16 when he joined? He was just a boy! As far as he knew Night's Watch black ops teams was on a acceptance-by-rank procedure as they assumed rank meant experience. Jon had not joined from one of the military academies which made him infantry - also known as foot soldiers and canon-fodder. They move up the ranks faster because their Commanding Officers die in battle. He shuddered at the thought. Depending on the number of missions he was on the first years he could've joined the black ops teams at 17, max 18. Still just a boy!

He looked over at Rhaella. She was still Minister of Foreign Affairs then. She stepped down 5 years ago? Ellaria Sand had taken over and was still doing a wonderful job. Rhaella was enjoying her freedom and split her time between King's Landing and Dragonstone. Sometimes she even flew up to visit Benjen. Again the President threw a glance at Rhaella. Ohh, those two are like bloodhounds and they are on the hunt!

"Just so we're clear, I take your silence as you being in agreement with what I say." The President gave the Ambassador a pointed looked.

Melisandre swallowed and gave a curtly nod.

"Good. Now, let's assume this black op was outside my legislative reach and, for your sake, also out of that of the Free Cities."

This time the red woman noticeably swallowed a bit more difficult. They're getting closer.

"Oh, I see! Hmm....yet for some reason they haven't taken action which tells me they don't know either." She gave a gleeful smile. " Interesting, very interesting."

Ella put down her cutlery and gave the Ambassador a hard look.

"Tell me Ambassador, you were a red priestess, yes? Priestess at a temple of the Lord of Light, correct?"

The red woman nodded.

"Speak up, I didn't make an agreement with you to stay silent."

"Yes, that's what red priests and priestesses are, Lady Targaryen."

They say it's nerve-wrecking to watch men strutting about like peacocks, but watching women with knives on their teeth take stabs at each other... Definitely worse!

Rhaella gave one of the most chilling smiles he'd ever seen when she said, "when those pirates where burned alive in Ar Noy 8 years ago, did you give the order?"

A collective gasp was drawn around the table. Even the President looked surprised at Rhaella's nerve and candidness. That was until Melisandre answered.

"I did, and I would again. I had been charged with the task to stop the pirates and an example had to be made." The audacity of this woman! Gods!

"Have you never heard of the term 'negotiation' or are you simply too dense to understand the concept?!" Tyrion couldn't hold his tongue any longer. Both Tyrion and Oberyn looked at the Ambassador in disgust. Quite an achievement really...

"No honourable person would ever burn another being alive!" He couldn't help himself from snapping. He'd heard enough now.

"Are you questioning my honour, Lord Stark?" The Ambassador bit back at him with a sly smile.

"I’m not questioning your honour, Ambassador, I'm denying its very existence!"

"You know, when the most quiet man in the room decides to speak up, that Ambassador —priestess whichever title you wish to go by— is the time one should truly worry." Sitting leisurely with one arm leaning on the back of his chair and the other holding a cup of wine, elbow resting on the table, Oberyn looked between him and the red woman. Leaning closer to Melisandre and tilting the head so it pointing across the table, he continued, "—and that, is always the most quiet man in the room."

The President spoke up again, "I'll be sending a letter of notification to the Triarch of Volantis and the Sealord of Braavos informing them that our acceptance of you as the Ambassador and Representative of the Free Cities has been cancelled and declared null and void from today's date. Of course I'll be obliged to explain, in detail, how and why such a grave course of action has been deemed fit. Westeros will support any and all legal actions they see fit to be taken against you to have you answer for your crimes."

That wiped all smugness of the Ambassador's face.

"But...but there are procedures for such a matter. You can't just send me home!" The woman looked shocked. Appalled that someone would that to her.

"I can and I will." Said in the calmest most matter-of-fact voice the President smiled back at the priestess.

As Melisandre opened her mouth to voice further protests, it was Robb's turn to snap.

Sneering, barring his wolf teeth he said, "with all due respect, Ambassador, I've had enough, and I'm sure my wife has as well, of your well-wishing on our most happy of days, so kindly accept our gratitude for having blessed us with your radiant self." Robb is only this overly polite when what he really wants is to ring someone's neck. Turning to the police officer who along with Ser Barristan was the President's guards for the day, he said, "Detective Bronn, please escort Ambassor Melisandre home, she's had an exiting day and is rather tired now."

"It'll be my pleasure, Dr. Stark." With a smug look on his face, Detective Bronn stepped up behind the Ambassador, pulled out her chair and 'helped' her up and out without further protests from the priestess.

Rhaella and the President looked at each other and shared a victorious smile. If they could, they would've high-five'd each other on the spot.

Catelyn cleared her throat. "I feel like that calls for a toast."

Everyone looked around at one another and then in unison said: "To the God of Tits & Wine!"

Their loud salute and laughter caught the attention of the other tables who joined in both, even the children who giggled at being allowed to say such a 'bad' word. This is for you, Jon!

Setting down her cup, Margaery looked at Robb. "You essentially sent one of the most powerful people in the country to bed without supper." She couldn't hold her laughter in.

"I'd do it again. You don't show up in my house and disrespect my family, and people in general, like that." Marg leaned in and gave him a swift kiss. "Though I'm glad Lady Targaryen and Madam President did the interrogation. Remind me never to end up in your claws, ladies." Finishing with a wink at Ella, Robb was back to being his charming self.

"Madam President," Tyrion interrupted, "may I ask how you plan to handle this with the press? You do know who reads the papers, right?"

"Oh you leave the press to me, Lannister, I know exactly who reads the papers." She stuck her tongue out at Tyrion, who nearly choked on his wine laughing, before continuing, "The Looking Glass is read by people who think they run the country; The warden is read by people who think they ought to run the country; Westerosi Times is read by the people who actually do run the country; the Daily Post is read by the wives of the people who run the country; the Monetary Times is read by people who own the country; the Mockingbird is read by people who think the country ought to be run by another country, and the Telegram is read by people who think it is."

"What about the people who read The Dawn?" Tyrion asked.

"Dawn readers don’t care who runs the country, as long as she’s got big tits," Rhaella answered dryly.

Naturally that caused a burst of laughter from everyone. Tyrion leaned in as far as he could to toast her, though shaking with laughter made it difficult for the little man.

High-fiving her, Oberyn said, "I knew there was a reason why I always liked you so much!"

"By the way," Rhaella looked back at Olenna with a big satisfied smile, "I believe you owe me 50 dragons, Madam President."

"Yes yes, you won the bet." It's quite funny seeing her this annoyed with losing a bet after how cool she was during her 'interrogation'.

"I did! Just put on my tab." She gave a cheeky wink at the President.

"What did you bet about this time?" Catelyn chimed in now.

"Whether or not my daughter would start to drool when setting eyes on the handsome Captain Dayne."

"Unfortunately, Dr. Targaryen is better at controlling her mouth-water than I had hoped for."

"Grandma!" Marg couldn't hold back her laugh. "Although," she added, "there is something about a man in uniform."

"Hey hey hey, before you know it, I've signed up for the army just to have you swoon over me in my uniform."

"Don't you dare!"

Robb pulled her in for a kiss, she laughingly pulled away then leaned back in for another kiss.

"What did I tell you, child?" Olenna laughed, "there's something about wolves!"

#jonerys fanfic #jonerys modern au #jonerys #robbery #queen of thorns

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