#i'm not really anti this relationship

[yourhighness6]

It's funny to me when people insist that "ATLA was really feminist" as if there wasn't really only one feminist message which was the very generic "girls can fight too" spiel that every 2000s show had going on whenever they briefly tried to jump on the feminism bandwagon or whatever

[butterflysonnets]

yes i'm rooting for m*leven breakup because byler is neat but mostly? i'm rooting for m*leven breakup for the sake of el and mike.

to me, their romance was always a puppy love born out of a combination of social pressures, naïve curiosity, and a lack of true understanding regarding intimacy and romantic love and what it really is. it was real in that they do truly, deeply care about each other and they are close friends, maybe even shared an attraction, but a maturing romance is so much more than that. they've grown up and out of being boyfriend/girlfriend, and that's okay! i think television/film needs to show more often that most of us don't have definite "soulmates" or first childhood loves that we spend our whole lives with. it doesn't mean these relationships meant nothing and didn't impact us, it just means they've run their course and that something else is in the cards, and this is part of life!

i've always felt el was at her best and most confident self when broken up with mike, discovering who she was and what she liked alongside another girl her age instead of just relying on mike for mentorship on how to live in the real world. she deserves more of an opportunity to find herself, her autonomy, and her independence, and to love who she is, and she's made it clear she's felt insecure in the relationship with mike because she isn't being loved and understood the way she wants, needs, and deserves from someone who is her partner.

also, it's okay if mike doesn't love her in "the way he should". he is not obligated to love her romantically and stay in a relationship with her just because she's a girl, because she "needed someone", or because he cares about her a lot. he shouldn't be pressured into a romance if it's not truly coming from his heart. he deserves freedom to find out and honour who he is, too, instead of just staying in his non-functional first relationship — one he got into as a child, essentially — and defining himself that way because it's what's expected when a boy and a girl are close. he loves her in some way, yes, but it's okay if he doesn't feel comfortable or secure being her boyfriend anymore, for whatever reason that is. he's felt insecure too, and that's valid and it matters.

they are their own people and are steadily growing and changing every day. they need time to figure out who those people are, and it's become clear (at least in my opinion) that those people aren't meant to be a couple at this stage.

they deserve freedom. they deserve to grow up and be authentic to themselves and not feel like they need to lie for the sake of a relationship. they deserve to move on from this version of their relationship that isn't making them happy and rekindle the best part of their bond: their strong, beautiful friendship. they don't have to be a couple if it doesn't make them stronger and better and happier people.

i think it would be healthy and wonderful for a show, especially one consumed frequently by young adults, to show a relationship starting, progressing, and ending on good terms in this way. sometimes things don't work out, and that is okay.

[gwandas]

I think we should gatekeep Nesta from people who didn't like her before ACOSF

[freddie-77-ao3]

"You wouldn't care about will solace if he wasn't gay--"

I CARE ABOUT ALL THE MINOR CHARACTERS!! MORE THAN THE MAIN ONES!!! I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE SEXUALITY TALK TO ME ABOUT HIS TRAUMA!!!

[existencebringsonlypain]

I may have posted about this before, but I don't understand the whole proshipper/anti debate. As far as I understand, I'm on the side of proshippers (i think fiction is fiction and doesn't have to reflect reality. because it's fiction.), but what I don't get is why there's such a clear defined binary, and why there's such animosity between the two. It's just a difference in opinion, like any other, isn't it? I understand that either group can "take it too far" (though i dont really get how proshippers could be TOO okay with problematic ships). but i really think either viewpoint is fine to a degree, they both have logic behind them, and it's just a matter of preference, isn't it?

[fuckmeyer]

girl please, Charlie Swan is Team Werewolf and you know it

[darkpoisonouslove]

I am sick of people constantly reducing Alicent's entire character down to her being in love with Rhaenyra. I can ship it and still see Alicent as a separate character. Granted, I don't like the character arc they've written for her because it's slow as hell, it completely destroys her agency and it strands her outside of the main plot but people need to shut up about how Alicent was about to drown herself because of Rhaenyra kissing Mysaria.

First of all, she wasn't even trying to drown herself. I know that line about not being sure if she means to return to King's Landing was suspicious but at what point did Alicent show she was trying to drown herself? She wasn't just floating in the water, she was actually, very leisurely, swimming so she clearly didn't mean to drown. And she took off her dress to remain only in her underclothes since her dress would have gotten heavy and dragged her down. She was actively trying to avoid that and keep her dress dry, which means she very much meant to get out of the lake.

Second of all, I know the joke is that Alicent can sense Rhaenyra kissed another woman but I've seen people genuinely not saying it as a joke. She doesn't have the faintest clue what the fuck is happening with Rhaenyra and here's the part y'all are not gonna like - she doesn't actually care. If she got any kind of feeling something was off, it would have been drowned out by everything else that is wrong in her life and she perceives as her fault.

This woman has been having an ongoing existential crisis since the second fucking episode of this season when she decided her grandchild's brutal murder was a punishment from the gods for her sins. Things have only gone downhill from there. In episode three Rhaenyra delivered a truth that disillusioned Alicent about her excuse for going against Viserys' wishes and against Rhaenyra. She didn't actually believe he changed his mind about who should inherit the throne but it did provide her with an excuse that would give her enough peace of mind for her to not fall apart and prioritize her children's safety. Only for her grandson to get decapitated and for Rhaenyra to make it impossible to remain in denial about her own decision to go against her husband's wishes.

Given who Alicent is as a person, that would have been enough to send her spiraling but she now has to deal with - in her perception - the fact that her attempt to avoid the pain of losing her children has resulted in Helaena losing her child. She literally feels that she traded her children's lives for Helaena's son's life and avoiding mourning her children comes at the price of her passing that pain onto Helaena... and Aegon. However, Alicent cannot bear to empathize with Aegon's pain because he is the embodiment of all the ruin in her life. He was her first child, the first product of Viserys maritally raping her and still, he has her heart. He was the main challenge to Rhaenyra's reign. He would have to be killed first before any danger came for his brothers. He was the main reason she had to do what she did and expose Helaena to all this pain because she still wanted to save him. Jaehaerys was the price they paid for Alicent's attempt to keep Aegon alive. She blames him just as much for Helaena's suffering as she blames herself and that's what stops her from comforting him.

And then all that comes back to hurt her AND the realm again. Because of her behavior and her words Aegon decided to prove himself and is now disabled and disfigured by his own brother. Now Aemond has caused his siblings pain and she can't help any of them. She can't do anything for Aegon and Aemond won't let her do anything for him. She gives Aemond contradicting feelings and a disgust for the vulnerability he shows because of her the same way Aegon gives her contradicting feelings and disgust about his vulnerability and her own.

And on top of that! There was a riot that threatened Helaena. And while Alicent was there to protect her, all her life's work, all her attempts to do right by the small folk and be a good queen have been erased by a war that she had to fight for the sake of her children's lives. Everyone she's been trying to protect hates her and/or has pulled away from her. Things are even tense and uncertain between her and Criston - the guy she literally saved from taking his own life by becoming his cause! She's having a fucking existential crisis that's been slowly progressing since the end of the first episode! Rhaenyra's not anywhere near the top of her list with priorities. If I'm not mistaken she hasn't really mentioned her since the scene in the Sept. She's mentioned Viserys a few times instead.

While I'm not a fan of the way they're writing her as completely disconnected from the main plot since she's too busy having a meltdown, Alicent is having her own arc that revolves way more around her children rather than around Rhaenyra. Her feelings for Rhaenyra certainly are a part of that arc since her refusal to let go of them is what has stopped her from acting a lot more decisively towards protecting her children (all she had to do was tell her guards Rhaenyra was there when she left the Sept and she would have ended the whole war) but they aren't the sole point of her character as people too often claim, even if it's in jest.

[lgbtlunaverse]

I don't think we talk about xiyao exes to lovers enough. I understand that in canon the "breakup" ended with death and imo it was never going to end any other way (I have a lot of feelings about how jgy is doomed from the start) but even in aus where survival is an option I barely ever see their full potential realized. The fact that there is this heartbreaking gap that is between them now, and yet that, despite it all, they can't stop loving each other. When you have drama this good, why is the conflict relegated to outside threats and we end up with little to no exploration of internal strife, of the fact that these guys have been living a domestic lie for a decade (I cannot stress this enough, the amount of parralels between xiyao and jgy's marriage to qin su are staggering.)

And let me be clear I will NEVER begrudge anyone their hurt/comfort and wanting their faves who are denied happiness and peace at every turn to find it. god knows I need that sometimes. Or even the less healthy but so emotionally devastating fics where the caring isn't good, and it doesn't fix anything- might only make things worse, actually- and xichen ends up recreating his father's fate. I love all of those things. But. Man. This divorce was over 11 years in the making it should take AT LEAST that long to resolve. What do you do when the person you trusted the most lied to you for years? What do you do when the only person who's ever believed in you loses that faith so completely they'd hurt you over a lie without hesitation? I need me some xiyao who try to get over each other for 20 years and fail. I need them to meet after not seeing each other for years and have it hurt like no time has passed at all. I need arguments where no one raises their voice but that feel like a screaming match anyway. Do you see my vision?? Do you see what we could have?

(if fics that do exacly this are out there, recs are of course welcome)

[bugsbenefit]

they we're so bold for putting these in the same episode

in the first scene Mike gives El his clothes because she's soaked from being out in the rain, in the last scene of the episode (excluding Barb's death cliffhanger) Steve gives Nancy some of his clothes because she's soaked from getting thrown in the pool

also, Mike tells El she needs "privacy" while Nancy herself asks for "some privacy"

the clothes are even the exact same COLOURS, dark blue shirt + grey sweatpants from Mike and grey shirt, dark blue sweats for Nancy the only reason this isn't even More obvious is because we don't see Nancy put them on here because she chooses to undress instead (something Mike actively stopped El from doing, but she also tried)

one of the most one the nose parallels because they happen right in the same episode, i even picked up on it right in my first watch of the show without any particular interest or investment yet

this is also the earliest moment i started feeling a bit weird about mleven. because the episode starts with Mike and El and they spend it hanging out in Mike's house together, which is sweet. and then the episode ends with Steve and Nancy paralleling them, and by this point it's already obvious that they're BAD for each other

with Barb constantly telling Nancy to not do anything she doesn't want, Nancy "not being herself" and also leaving her friend behind in favour of Steve. and that's not even mentioning Barb dying after Nancy ditched her for hooking up with Steve

there's a lot to say about parallels mleven has to failing couples or family. but this is one of the earliest and incredibly hard to miss ones that made me as a viewer, still open to most directions the show could take, feel uncomfortable/doubtful about them

[seaweedstarshine]

Hi! Long time no yap but I've been really bothered by this thing and I know you're just the person I can go to with this (even if we don't always end up agreeing at times).

I got into a tiff with someone in a comments section of a post that was about Amy (Which character do you think deserved to become a villain? or something similar). They brought up Amy's abuse of her boyfriend. I may have tried to defend Amy (key word is tried. I am officially rubbish at debating) but then I may have said something? Because they said that I (and apparently a lot of other fans) was excusing Amy's abuse because of her trauma. It got me stumped because isn't young Amy's treatment of Rory rooted in her trauma? Did I miss the memo where we separate trauma and abuse? Am I missing something?

That statement bothered me a lot because if there's one thing I never want to do it's defend an abuser. So here I am, humbly asking and hoping to clear the muddy waters.

Your really confused and disturbed moot, Tia 💌

TIA!!!!! Thanks for the ask 💌 , and I send you all the hugs.

Discussion of abuse, trauma, ableism, infidelity, and unhealthy relationship dynamics beneath the cut.

(First off… while I really appreciate your faith in my explaining skills <3 <3 <3 my passion for traumatized characters and mentally ill+neurodivergent rights doesn't make me especially qualified to fully clear muddy waters especially not knowing the full context, but I feel you, and what follows is my informed perspective!)

Speaking generally first, harm done in media is best examined by the impact on the audience, with a different lens than harm done to real people. While relatable experiences in media can be useful and validating and incredibly important, you can’t be “defending an abuser” when the abuse is fictional. It's actually normal for traumatized/ND/mentally ill people to project onto mentally ill villains, when villains are the only significant representation for those stigmatized symptoms in a media landscape that excludes and demonizes us simply for existing. RTD can't stop people who hallucinate from reclaiming the Master's Drums and projecting onto the Master, for example — 90% of the best Doctor Who psychosis fic by psychotic authors is about the Master, whether RTD likes it or not. It's not true crime.

(This is speaking generally. Amy Pond is very much not the Master.)

Abuse is a behavior, and there can be many reasons for it, but reasons based in trauma don’t make it not abuse (some forms of generational trauma can propagate abusive parenting styles, when the parent thinks abusive parenting is normal, or lives entirely vicariously through their child). This absolutely should not be taken to mean trauma correlates with abusive behavior; rather that abusive behaviors from traumatized people are more likely to present in specific ways.

Abuse is also a targeted behavior, based in control — not consistently displayed C-PTSD symptoms as seen in Season 5 Amy Pond through many aspects of her life. Mental health symptoms don't become abuse just because they hinder one partner from meeting the other partner's needs. Any life event can do that.

Without knowing the context of the arguments, this is the aspect of their relationship I've seen you talk about before (which I also feel strongly about), and what I assume is what you were debating? So, here I will talk specifically in regard to Season 5.

We all know Amy — she's never attached to Leadworth because she never wanted to leave Scotland, no steady therapist because none of them stick up for her, can't stick with one job yet her first choice is a job that simulates intimacy because her avoidant behavior (a known trauma response) isn't sustainable to her wellbeing. Rory knows her fears of commitment stem from her repeated abandonments, it’s why he’ll always wait for her, and it's why he blames the Doctor “You make it so they don't want to let you down.”, who apart from having caused a lot of her trauma, has actively taken advantage of her being the “Scottish girl in the English village” who's “still got that accent,” because he wants to feel important, so yeah, I think interpreting Amy's issues (and how Amy and Rory transverse them) as Amy abusing Rory indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of their relationship, as well as a misunderstanding of the (raggedy) Doctor’s role in Amy’s formative self-image (which of course she works through in Season 6, but I am sticking to Season 5).

Abuse is always based in control. That just doesn’t fit here. While Amy's detachment from her real life includes things like calling Rory her “kind of boyfriend” (which she is upfront about to his face; differing commitment levels isn't abuse, though it can be a relationship red flag for both parties IRL) — her Season 5 disregard of Rory’s feelings occurs only in response to the fairytale embodiment of her trauma. It's never a response to Rory; it's a response to the Doctor, who stole her childhood and led her by the hand to her death. She cheats on Rory with the Doctor in her bedroom full of Doctor toys, drawings, models, she made from childhood to early adulthood.

(And yes, like many repeatedly-traumatized people, Amy is prone to being sensitive and reactive. Take her “Well, shut up then!” line in The Big Bang; but given Rory responds to this by hugging her, clearly he doesn’t take it as her actually dismissing him. He knows her better than that.)

And by no means do I meant to imply this is fair to young Rory, poor Rory, who's left struggling with the feeling that his role in her life is in competition with the role of her trauma (aka the Doctor). But not every unhealthy relationship dynamic is unhealthy because of abuse. Labelling Amy's treatment of Rory in Season 5 more accurately isn't the same as excusing her harmful choices — but making mistakes is part of being human, Amy's mistakes are certainly understandable, and she works through them out of love for Rory.

If there's one thing to say about Moffat women, it's that Moffat allows his female characters the same grace that the male characters *coughTENcough* have always had, to hurt and struggle and make realistic mistakes and overcome those mistakes and to heal without being demonized.

Amy isn't perfect, but she is a fully realized character, and her story gives us a resonant depiction of childhood trauma.

[navree]

"can we stop pretending the evil stepmother trope is bad and boring" oh my FUCKING GOD just reread the book!!!! just reread the fucking book!!!!!! if you want the book canon so bad it's right there, go read it!!!!! you've got to have it in your possession since you talk about it all the fucking time and i'd be astounded if someone this fucking pressed hasn't actually read it!!!!!! the change to rhaenyra and alicent's relationship has been known since they first cast the fucking show!!!!! it's been there since episode one!!!!!!! if you don't like it don't watch the show and just REREAD THE FUCKING BOOK!!!!!!

[the-way-astray]

hello just wanted to let you know your blog is healing me. i am on a reread of the series rn and am so thoroughly fed up with keefe's character. i've never loved keefe before but i'm just so annoyed at him this read around. gonna circle back to your essay FOR SURE after getting back through the series.

you handshake me: rereading the series and disliking keefe every time he comes on page. even if keefe was a perfectly written character with a flawless arc, i'm pretty sure i'd still hate him, because he's such a pity-party-throwing cookie cutter with atrocious humor and the critical thinking skills of a six year old. it really, really doesn't help that my number one, number two, and number three pet peeves when it comes to characters are stupidity, unfunniness which the writer thinks is genuinely funny, and excessive, comically over-the-top angst for the sake of having angst and nothing else. and keefe's character manages to have all three, while also eating up a ridiculous amount of pagetime.

that's very kind! i'm glad you like it here. i think each time i reread the series (i've done it roughly once a year since i first started reading the series circa 2019), i hate the guy even more. each year i'm older, though, so i suppose that may have something to do with it. or not. i'm not sure. what i can say with complete confidence, though, is that i have never not hated keefe. from the moment i picked up this series, i disliked him. so just keep in mind that i am super, super biased. super. the essay (whichever one you're referring to . . . it's not really clear) is not meant to be taken as some gospel truth. think of it as five years' worth of pent-up rage put in a semi-coherent form.

[theophagie-remade]

People who fancy themselves intellectuals on this hellsite love to condescendingly bring up fandom issues to minimise them or go on about whataboutisms when the question simply is do you think people deserve to be told they ought to die or be abused over fiction and fantasies or nah

[maddy-ferguson]

when people who like seasons 1 and 2 better explain why it was better they always lose me when they say "the characters were what mattered the most the supernatural plot was basically not that important it was ALL about the characters" like...that's just what YOU were more interested in not what was happening in the show? like wdym the supernatural plotline wasn't that important in seasons 1 and 2. saying that it was more balanced or more subtle i get but saying that the supernatural plot wasn't THAT important and that it's not what made anyone love the show is a blatant lie

[autumnrory]

i know it's just like, part of the show and like they probably did not realize what a monster they created with dean so of course they're not gonna have any of the characters acknowledge it and definitely not lorelai but it's crazy the things she does and how often she actually sides with dean over her own daughter

during the first breakup she's angry at him for hurting rory but then the second she finds out WHY he broke up with her she's like "oh i see now, i hate that you're afraid to say i love you" (which was a huge assumption on her part that it was all down to rory's fear and not that she just might not have been feeling it yet three months into her first relationship) instead of the reaction that she should have had which was: "that is a fucked up reason to break up with you and you should not ever feel pressured to say i love you back" AND THEN maybe she could get into talking about how it might be scary but if rory is actually feeling it, she should learn to take the leap and say the words anyway

there's at least two or three instances of mentioning how much he calls/making jokes about stalker behavior and i'm just like. okay i could sort of get it in the honeymoon phase if you're just that obsessed with each other but i don't see rory being that type in a relationship like she very clearly cared deeply and did fall in love with him but like, it definitely doesn't feel like a mutually obsessed with each other situation, it feels like he's the one in constant need of her presence (see how in 2x16 she says she wants a night alone and he shows up anyway)

but like 2x15 where she lays into jess about the bracelet and how important it is to rory (though he did not take it out of malice and he put it in her room BECAUSE rory was so distressed) instead of realizing how insane it is that rory is afraid to tell her boyfriend she lost something he gave her because she knows he'll make it a bigger thing than it is (like sure tbf she IS starting to feel less in that relationship than she once did but losing the bracelet has nothing to do with that)

or say 2x09 she sees rory freaking about dean and tristan interacting and dean potentially finding out about the kiss and lorelai herself acknowledges that it would hurt dean to find out rory and tristan kissed after they broke up even though ya know he dumped rory on their anniversary and she was heartbroken and even later she tries to help rory convince dean not to come to rehearsal to help her daughter prevent a fight that should not happen bc rory did not cheat on him!! like i understand it would be upsetting to find out your partner kissed someone the day after you broke up but like. rory was allowed to do whatever she wanted because she was single

and on a different note in 2x19 i think lorelai treats it differently because it's jess and she simply doesn't want rory to be connected to him but when she asks lorelai to tell dean she's with lane if he calls, she reacts instead like "oh i don't wanna lie to dean" though she knows damn well it will be a big thing if he learns rory is tutoring jess, that he will not be able to accept rory spending one on one time with him when he couldn't even handle her hanging out with him and paris in 2x16 ("he must have been crazy mad last night" lorelai says the next day when while she was not there to witness the whole thing she DOES know that rory was sharing a meal with two friends and dean showed up and freaked out) and that's proven when he returns home and finds out about the car accident and it shifts from concern at seeing rory injured to angrily kicking his duffel bag when she hands him a letter (because god she's too afraid to just say it and begs him to keep reading i hate it i hate it i hate it)

and it's funny that she "doesn't wanna lie to dean" when she gets involved in their relationship on other occasions like 2x13 he goes running to lorelai about jess and rory going off together when jess buys her basket and later lorelai goes on about her and dean's concerns about rory hanging out with jess like the two of them are teamed up to keep rory away from him it's just sdkjfks

it's so frustrating because fandom goes on about rory's infidelity (though it's yet another thing they ignore when it comes to paris cheating on her long time boyfriend in a full blown affair which hey if they were at least pointing out the way she was manipulated by an older man at only 19 then that would be different but they're really not or lorelai and christopher sleeping together while he's still very much in a relationship with sherry) and i HATE cheating i do but i will generally give fictional characters a pass for a slip up (like her kisses with jess while with dean and logan bc each were one time instances) so the only valid one to me to be mad about is sleeping with dean while he was married but even that he lied to her and told her the marriage was over even though it wasn't and also it was just a dumb plotline for the drama of it all but we're not gonna get into that now

but the point is like....at every turn everyone particularly lorelai was going on about how perfect her relationship with dean was and how good he is to her despite all evidence to the contrary so of course rory was confused and felt she had to stay with him. if not for lorelai being overly involved rory might've been able to just get out of that relationship, whether it was to be with jess or not, she could've realized how uncomfortable and arguably unsafe she felt and also that her love for him wasn't what it once was but instead she stayed because she felt obligated to and somehow rory is in the wrong for stringing dean along when lorelai was trying to push her closer to dean and away from jess (in fairness in 3x01 she did say rory had to decide between the two but she's also going on about how patient and supportive dean has been - not true - and sort of implying that jess couldn't be serious about her so like that along with jess/shane probably influenced rory's decision to try to stay with dean longer)

like it really seemed like she at least in part was trying to keep rory with dean just so she wouldn't be with jess but also even before jess came into the picture and was really a hindrance in rory and dean's relationship, lorelai saw all this shitty behavior from dean whether directly or just from rory telling her (who could have downplayed it but we didn't see a lot of those scenes in the aftermath of dean being shitty and possessive and whatnot) but it's just like oh my god how many times can you see all this and knowing your daughter and what kind of person she is still figure that she's in the wrong and dean is in the right instead of seeing that there are deep issues in the relationship that are not and never have been rory's fault

[prolibytherium]

I only attract people who are extremely needy and high maintenance in ways I am not capable of dealing with or supporting OR people who I actively vibe with and could theoretically maintain a decent relationship but are ex/current christians in a perpetual state of crisis over their homo ways