#im never ok when it comes to byler but

[bylertruther-moved]

the fact tht we really have to wait to get the juiciest scripts....... life is nothing but endless pain </3

[bylertruther]

ok now tht i’ve gotten my mushy gushiness out can i just say.... that it is soooooo funny tht midlevens FINALLY got their i love you after four seasons..... and it.... lmao... i can’t even say it 🤭... it was... 🤭 bdjshfbdj based on a literal boldfaced lie that mike’s boy best friend told him and it was that boldfaced unbelievable and so painfully clockable lie that made mike feel loved and seen and safe enough to give eleven what he previously could not and stubbornly would not and that even when he did finally give her his speech after his boy best friend told him to it just made the vines around her neck tighten and was filled with things that the show itself refutes and proves to be yet another lie. because even when he says it... he isn’t saying it. he can’t say it. not really. not to her. not in the way she wants. LIKE LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO 🫣🤭💀

[cannibalismyuri]

way to take things out of context <33 lemme show u some things i said in the actual post that aren't taken out of the connotations i meant to imply them with?

"they also are popular bc they're seen as Better than other creators and put on a pedestal. which is both uncomfortable for them and Highly discouraging for others." this was the whole sentence. way to take things out of context huh.

"many people just disregard other rlly talented creators in favor of the already popular ones (who are popular for a reason. their art / fics / wtv Are really good and i read their stuff too! not trying to put them down here, just trying to lift other people up)" so where in this sentence do u see me saying that they aren't good writers?

"also bragging rights? babe nobody's bragging abt how they get more interaction. that's rude asf and entirely out of the question. and those popular writers ur talking abt who Could brag if they wanted to DON'T. bc they aren't despicable human beings who love to put others down." so did i or did i not clarify that i think the people byler tumblr puts on a pedestal handle it gracefully.

also the way u phrased this is Exactly what's wrong with this fandom. have u ever read anything that wasn't be the 10 writers u idolized? i've found some AMAZING, FREAKISHLY TALENTED, SWEET AND ALL-ROUND LOVELY writers in fandom whom i never would've found if i didn't Specifically try to broaden my horizons. the way you phrased this implies that there is simply nobody who compares to the writers with most engagement and like... how would u know? isn't this exactly the kind of behavior i was saying was Not It? ur putting them on a pedestal and refusing to acknowledge other people, no matter how talented they may or may not be. i'm not saying everybody is an amazing writer right off the bat and that these writers aren't amazing; i'm saying that others may be just as good. i know Several amazing writers eho dont get half the recognition as mediocre writers in other fandoms (NOT! TALKING! ABT! BYLER! HERE!) based on luck and when exactly they post. u guys will never branch out and Try to support these other fic writers who are helping keep this fandom alive and contributing Beautiful fics and then say that the tag is dying just bc UR personal favorite creators aren't creating as much. this doesn't in any way diminish the obvious prowess and skill of the Big writers, bc they're amazing writers and people, but u suggesting that nobody else even comes close? this is NOT nyt bestsellers this is FANDOM. its common courtesy to atleast respect people who write these fics for free and if u can't provide basic respect by trashing others' writing that u haven't even read bc its not one of the Big writer's writing... ur part of the problem.

and im going to say it for the last Fucking time. dont bring my fics or engagement into this. im speaking for so many other people and im trying to demand support for Everyone. this was never just abt me. i said this previously too, but i made a whole ass EVENT to shine light on less popular writers. bylerficrecweek was made for a reason. if it was just abt me and my engagement i never would've wholeheartedly put my whole heart into that project. and don't u Fucking dare insult my writing. "maybe you're not as good at it as you think"? im fucking tired of u coming on my blog, claiming im saying a bunch of BULLSHIT and recontextualizing everything i say and insulting my writing on top of that. you won't see this bc ive blocked u now but. im genuinely so fucking tired. im turning off anon. clearly who ever is sending these has a problem with me personally; so say it with your whole pussy to my face now. ok thx and im Really Fucking Tired please read the post for what its meant to be before mindlessly accusing me of shit.

[tea-time-with-london]

1: i do not get creelarke, steddie and harringrove at all.

2: if billy and henry were poc much less ppl would be defending them.

2:the byler fandom is the most toxic shipping community apart from steddie and harringrove and im saying this as a member of the community who actively posts. there is this this air of elitism when ppl talk about the general audience. like some bylers talk about them like they're above them when in reality its ok to watch a show and not get invested into the fandom and analyse every detail. also the discourse is horrible, like chill mate

Confession #84

Steve was going to be shipped with whatever conventionally attractive white male walked within 5 feet of him, unfortunately, even if he only had a 3 minute conversation with one of them. Steve doesn't canonically like Eddie or Billy either, so those ships are irrelevant to me and baseless anyway. And Creelarke...what. How do people come up with these things?? Whatever. I'm over half the ships in this fandom. I'll never understand them, but it is what it is.

I've never actually seen anyone defend Henry and quite actually I have no idea how anyone could. I don't really see anything to defend.

And yeah, the way some people treat the GA is just downright ridiculous. I'm sorry some of the people in your community are incredibly toxic. The elitism is so gross to me, and it's definitely prevalent in all three of those fandoms, in my opinion. I'm just basing that on my own experience though. Others might have a different experience, but yeah. It's gross either way. I dislike most of the ships people come up with because I dislike fanon ships, but I'll never act like my preferred canon ships are elite. I'll stay in my lane and ship my canon ships and other people can do what they please as long as they're not being flat out assholes to other people.

[hawkinsp0st]

the s3 ending wants to put the audience’s focus on byler.

thank you for the request @lemonkookies !!! disclaimer this analysis has totally been done before by causeineedu on tiktok and other excellent creators—just wanted to share my specific observations and thoughts <3

part i: “not possible” vs “i like presents too”

• first scene we get in the moving out sequence is mike & will. mike hasn’t wanted to play dnd all season, and yet he’s scared that will is throwing his dnd set away.

• the 2 of them have the interaction “what if you want to join another party?” “not possible.” michael is,,,,,positively smitten. but even after the famous mike smile, the camera turns back to will and he’s staring mike down as he walks away. this is so, so flirty i’m having a mental breakdown. i’ve seen this scene several times but never noticed they were this bad. this interaction is especially interesting since they never really made up from the rain fight in 3x3 bc the mind flayer showed up.

• mariah carey goodbye scene is framed within a closet when it starts. like the camera is inside the closet

• mike finds el, immediately tells her ���dw you’ll get your powers back”. huh? if u valued her for who she is as a person shouldn’t u be telling her that things will be ok without her powers, instead of reassuring her (ahem, yourself) that they’ll come back?

• mike brings up presents then goes sorry that made me sound like a seven year old. he’s dipping back into enjoying things that he had thought were too immature all throughout s3, bc that interaction he just had with will about dnd made him feel safe to do so again.

• this boy fr just stands there and lets her walk away. michael. 🧍‍♂️

• never noticed this before but he seems like he genuinely doesn’t remember at first what eleven’s talking about when she’s calling back to the cabin “ily” moment. i just think it’s funny that he doesn’t even remember LOL

• THIS IS FR MIKE DURING THE KISS 👁👁🧍‍♂️ HE DOESNT TOUCH HER OR FOLLOW HER OR ANYTHING IM

part ii: hop’s letter scene and the crazy fucking byler centric way it’s sequenced

• this scene does a weird non-chronological order thing. let’s discuss.

• el sits down to read the letter and hop’s voiceover starts. we get shots of hop writing the letter & the kids’ goodbyes (i’m looking at you, sus internalized homophobia byler hug that lasts 30 seconds shorter than all the other hugs lmao). but then…..

• the byers/el drive away and we zoom in on mike. just mike. this tells the viewer to focus on him for the remainder of this sequence. the zoom into mike happens as hop is saying “like you’re… you’re pulling away from me or something.” he watches el & the byers drive away. he looks distraught.

• “i miss playing board games every night.” OH COME ON. (dnd)

• the rest of their friends bike away, but mike stays behind for a really long time—“growing. changing. and i guess…”

• mike looks back at the byers’ house, LOOKS THE HOUSE UP AND DOWN MULTIPLE TIMES AS HOP SAYS “if i’m being really honest, that’s what scares me.”

• “i don’t want things to change.” direct cut from mike to will, will’s crying in the car and jonathan notices (parallel to 4x8 van scene imo).

• mike walks into his house. “i think that’s why i came in here… to try and maybe… stop that change.” subtextually? i think this is meant to show us that that’s why mike has been acting so weird and closed off towards will in s3. growing up means acknowledging those feelings they share, so he’s trying to stop that change. i really don’t think i’m reaching bc these lines play clearly & distinctly while we see mike wheeler, standing by himself, looking distraught over will leaving.

• “to turn back the clock.” he gives his mom the Will Look™️ (the same one from when he thought will was dead in s1) and, in direct parallel to s1, She Knows Things And They Hug. this parallel is so direct that it’s clear to me they’re showing us he’s emotional over will right now—not el.

• “to make things go back to how they were.” he hugs his mom. his eyes are open wide and the camera focuses on that. he’s realizing that things will not be the same now that he and will are growing up, and he’ll be forced to either face or repress things.

• now we cut back to el reading the letter. then the rest of the scene plays out chronologically—the byers & el leave their house. this is what confirms everything for me: the only explanation for this weird time shift is that they wanted hop’s specific words over the mike sequence.

if hop’s letter were meant to only be about hop & el’s relationship, or the bond between all the kids, it would’ve been a montage of their happy memories playing as she was reading the letter or in the moving van with joyce. but the show actually takes us out of this and focuses on……mike losing will? for the majority of hop’s letter???

this REALLY contextualizes “i guess i feel like i lost you or something” from 4x4. watching the 4x4 scene right after the s3 finale, i feel like mike is finally trying to open up about how much this sequence of s3 took a toll on him. i honestly think will moving away changed him forever.

[astrobei]

Do u have any byler fic recs? I’ve read all ur work and it’s wonderful!

hii omg thank u :’)) i’m going to try my hardest not to only list every single of my friends’ fics on here or ones that have been recc’d a million times even though they are all deserving of a million reads!!

you are sick (and you’re married) by @wiseatom: OK i said i wouldn’t list every one of my friends’ fics on here but thea’s modern coffee shop au immediately came to mind. everything she’s written has been so incredible but she characterizes will and max especially so well in this! delivering to us the cringefail will content we need for reallll <3 i am so in love with her writing and something about her style just makes so much sense. i tell her this every single day but it will never be enough, because her will is so precious to me and i need thea to quit her job and only write loser4loser byler for the rest of her life. read this! or else! (coffee shop au, modern setting, cringefail will byers tm)

king of my heart by @bookinit02: i had to restrict myself in choosing just one of haven’s fics for this list because i love her and i would put every one of her fics on every list ever if i could, but this fic. THIS FIC. listen. i don’t cry easily when reading fics but this one. i was reading it in the living room and my roommate came down and she said, “suni, are you okay?” and i said “yeah, why?” and she said, “oh, i thought you just got dumped or something :(“ and i didn’t know how to tell her that the reason i was eating ice cream out of the tub on the couch at midnight while crying quietly in my comfort hoodie and fuzzy socks was because of this fic. that’s all i have to say <3 (soulmate au, angst, fics that tear my heart out of my chest)

in from the snow by @parkitaco: every one of parker’s fics is near and dear to my heart, and i’ve gushed at them about it in their comments and inbox and asks but this was my most recent completed read and it has literally everything i could’ve asked for ! ice skating date! established byler! jewish byers!!! her characterization is incredible and her established byler is my favorite i’ve ever read EVER in my entire life ohhh my god. she has so many wonderful fics and i literally cannot choose a favorite because they’re all 10000/10s so do urself a favor and binge her entire collection of works if, for some reason, you’ve been living under a rock and haven’t done so yet :^) (winter fic, hannukah, established byler, mike wheeler’s pathetic inability to ice skate)

want for anything (and everything): the writing in this fic is so beautiful. like. i am a sucker for fluff yes but also i’m a sucker for fics that just rip my heart right out of my body with how well written they are. i was looking through my bookmarks for this list and i haven’t read this in a while but my bookmark notes said, and i quote, “EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS IS SOOOOOOO!!!!!! IM AHSJDJDJDJSKSKKSKSKSKDKDJ” which sums it up perfectly in my opinion. post s3 mike and will figuring out their relationship and this author has such vice grip on me because i immediately binged the entire series too!! (six unrelated fics but each one of them are so. SO. GOOD!!) (this series has a whole bunch of premises so i’m just going to let u all figure that out for urself by making u read every single one of them. lol)

selfless; self destruct: i find myself coming back to this fic a lot because i have such a soft spot for will and mike finding each other again and repairing their relationship. the writing in this fic is so heartbreaking and the will pov in this was so spot on! they have a whole phone conversation about toast that just. it was so small and so simply and so raw and so THEM that i literally had to put my phone down. i’m sure i recommended this already but i can’t rec this fic enough !! (angst, post s4, reconnection)

hanging on the telephone by @elmaxed: lumi’s writing is just so. i don’t know how to explain it but the way they write is so soothing and easy and it conveys so much emotion with such simple dialogue and prose. everything lumi writes is s tier and this fic was no exception !! i Need more will and mike talking on the phone during the 6 months will was gone and it was really incredible reading this from mike pov. the characterization, the dialogue, mike’s struggle with his feelings for will vs what he should be feeling for will,, literally just the whole package. read it immediately if you haven’t !! (post s3, phone calls, mike wheeler’s ongoing homosexual crisis)

who you gonna call? (mike wheeler!) by @andiwriteordie: OK everyone and their mom has read andi’s fics because she’s famous and a legend and also one of my best friends (!) so it would be redundant for me to shake you by the shoulders and demand you read her fics but. this one is just so so special to me! like this one specifically. every one of her fics is incredible masterful beautiful but THIS ONE IS JUST SO!! i can’t explain why i come back to this fic so many times (other than the fact that it’s perfect). college byler where mike is an ra and will visits him, except they keep getting interrupted by the students on mike’s floor. ugh. perfect. holding it so close to my heart forever and ever <3 (college au, established byler, interruption trope x100)

bonus!! these fics aren’t byler but they are some of my all time favorites and i would shout their praise from the rooftops for all eternity if i could :^)

in the morning i’ll be better: jancy jancy jancy jancy jancy !!! stoprobbers on ao3 has some of the best, if not THE best jancy fics i’ve ever read! the characterization, the plot, the tenderness ☹️ jancy usually gets sidelined in byler fics so i eat up every single fic where they’re the main couple and this is everything i need from season 5. nancy’s talk with steve, reconnecting with jonathan, UGH. just. everything about this. (reconnection, jancy talking their issues through, nancy whooping steve’s ass for the six little nuggets monologue)

a life in your shape: if any of you are stoncy readers, this fic is the gift that keeps on giving. nancy and steve get engaged, and jonathan, their best friend, is,,, he’s dealing! i don’t read a lot of stoncy just because i feel like fics that are my style are few and far between, but for writing like this, i’d read any pairing the author wrote for. i have a sweet spot for this relationship and the way that the chemistry between all three of them is so palpable and balanced is so rare and beautiful to read! 36k of some of the best writing i’ve ever read i swear even if you’re not a big stoncy fan this fic might just convert u :^) (2/3 of an established relationship, 3 way pining, weddings)

november and july by @lookslikefireflies: this is such a wonderful max and will fic and probably the best max character study i’ve ever read. GOD the writing had me clutching at my heart in beautiful, glorious pain. just so many lines in this fic that i think about so much. takes place between s2 and s4 and just. i literally have no words. the way this author writes max is so so special to me, i want to put this prose in a mug and sip it on a cold day. the relationships between will and max and also max and mike and even though byler isn’t a focus of this fic, you can really see will’s struggle with his relationship with mike post s3 even though it’s not through his pov. i just come back to this fic a lot when i’m sad it’s so warm and gorgeous and just. ☹️☹️☹️ (max character study, angst, fics that make me curl up into a ball and weep)

i’m honestly not the best at fic recs because i keep forgetting to bookmark ones i like before i close the tab but i hope you enjoy these :^)

[paintingformike]

ok but its so funny that mlevens say we’re “reaching” for every point we make when they’re the ones that have to go through insane mental gymnastics trying to come up with a narrative for some of the most unexplainable scenes/writing choices in the entire show unless seen through a byler lens.

like...the final scene? the simplest explanation is that they’re establishing a pattern of couples. any other interpretation people have to go through hoops just to make it make sense, like trying to justify why the duffers feel the need to “foreshadow” or emphasize the age groups in the show...

the triple take in the desert? the easiest way to explain it is that mike was flustered after being caught looking at will. no need to go through mental gymnastics just to rule out the romantic implications in it and how he was apparently startled cause he was “caught thinking about el” in that moment? 😭

the airport scene? literally no reason for mike to be that awkward about hugging with his best friend of 10 years unless he’s desperately trying to repress feelings, he can hug other people just fine, even someone he hasn’t seen for a year and wasn’t exactly in the best terms with throughout season 3...distance and time doesnt begin to explain that away!

the final mleven kissing scene in season 3? the cold, hard facts were that he looked confused after the kiss, his eyebrows were furrowed and his eyes were literally emotionless throughout the 7 something seconds el was kissing him. trying to pass it off as initial “shock” when he had several seconds to kiss her back and he didnt show any signs of happiness even after they kissed is just POOR REASONING AND DENIAL!!

the official script saying that mike and will were having an intimate moment? sure, you could say that friends can be intimate too and keep convincing yourself that it just means they’re close...but how do you explain their intimate moment being “shattered”? i wouldn’t look so startled and caught like a deer in headlights after being interrupted out of staring at my best friend if i didn’t harbor any feelings beyond platonic for them and there’s nothing suspicious with what we were doing...also, lets face it. interrupted moments have only ever been used for romantic relationships in stranger things let alone any form of media in general, its not even speculation, its just facts.

will being in the background of every mleven scene except their fight and them shifting the focus on his emotions instead of mike and el’s? it’s a common technique used in love triangles when they want you to sympathize and root for the second love interest. constantly having will lurking in the background removes any and all intimacy in their scenes and paints them in a negative light, and if they really just wanted to portray unrequited love then they wouldn’t have him literally be in the MIDDLE of their shots, it just ruins what is supposed to be a “romantic” moment for them 😭

anyways what im trying to say is...you’re not reading too much into things and you’re just being gaslighted into thinking you are. if byler wasn’t supposed to be endgame then there wouldn’t be THIS MUCH suspicious and questionable writing choices in the first place, i can assure you that the unrequited love storyline for byler would’ve been way easier for the writers if their relationship didn’t get strained, will could still harbor feelings for mike with mike not acting weird and simply being oblivious to will’s feelings, and it would’ve still gone smoothly throughout the show. but they actively chose to write it this way and made mike’s actions suspicious so that people would question him in the first place, it would’ve been easier if they just never made him act weird and behaved like a regular best friend, heck, they didn’t even need to put this much drama and tension in their relationship. and their romance plot isn’t as hidden and buried deep into subtext as people make it out to be (it’s present in BOTH subtext and text), the fundamentals of it are just basic storytelling.

[spicybylerpolls]

Dear Spicy Byler Polls,

i love your in-depth response to the anon about rooting for finn to be queer and the difference between accusations of queer-baiting and excited speculation.

the main difference does seem to be entitlement, and public forums. for example, commenting on someone's literal social media post? rude. are they going to reply personally to you? no! but i think people honestly forget or dont care that the celeb can see that. they have something to say, and they think they have the right to say it. so they do.

so my main issue is being told i can't speculate amongst friends (which is what this blog often feels like) when we are pretty hidden over here. i certainly would never want to interact with finn or even comment on his posts, as i dont feel i have anything to contribute to his life. but i love to observe and wonder in my own space on the internet, because it does serve me to do that, and i am not hurting finn, which is what matters.

but lastly i will just say that the ambiguity of how we interpret things is maybe what freaks people out about speculation. for example, i had a hunch that noah was queer way before this debate and s4, but it didnt matter in my life so i wasnt boasting to anyone about being right when he came out. it wasnt about me! who cares what i thought? my hunch was also based on nebulous things that arent quantifiable and definitely would not hold up in a court of law (lol), so it also seemed trite to describe them.

whereas sadie simply saying she likes an artist who is queer, for me is very silly evidence because that essentially makes everything into a message, and if a large majority of the straight community realised that queer folk think them liking queer art made them queer, it would stop them liking that art (or rather, being open about how much they liked it), in case people started saying ooooh you must be queer! not that being queer is bad, but that the jump in logic is pretty large. its like saying oooh you've got a friend who is queer, you must be queer too! it was a wonder it didnt happen as much as it could have with queen in the 80s - the music was so good, people didnt care. same for elton john. but im sure plenty refused to listen based on the rep alone.

I personally am not queer, and if i had a platform of fans, and i said oooh i love boygenius, and some of those fans started thinking i was queer because of that, i would feel like they were reading too deeply. because my queerness would not be expressed through enjoying music, which is a universal thing. if they started to notice actual queer behaviours in me that i also acknowledged were queer, and i was questioning, i would be like ok, they've seen through me.

so as a straight person who is fascinated by modern (and older) queer culture, its kind of funny to me to see the ways modern queer folk interact with people who are unlabelled.

it seems to have gone from the old ways of safely finding others queers, like asking if theyre part of the family (which would have been an assumption based on instinct and vibes, and which was relatively easy to dismiss if they were in fact straight), to either demanding someone comes out, or relying on vague indicators of sexual identity, like someone's taste in music or even whether they wear rainbows.

these things might be big for the queer community, but they already have meanings in the straight ones, too. liking rainbows does not make you queer or even indicate you are queer.

of course, the queer community have used these ambiguous ways to find each other, but the whole point is that they remain double meanings in order to protect the secret language of queerness. 'are you family' means one thing to straights and another to queer folk, but now, in modern culture, lots of queer people seem to be insisiting that it MUST mean only one thing: gayness. for example, someone wearing rainbows? they must be gay. they must be flagging. despite the millenia-long history of the existence of rainbows and their popularity in pop culture.

in modern gay culture, many people seem to think they are entitled the queerness of others because they sense it. whereas back in the day, you get the sense that if someone did not respond positively to 'are you part of the family?' then you would leave them alone, not demand that they come out because they would be happier if they did so and lived their truth.

do you think this speaks more about the internet age than it does about queer culture itself? and can queer culture every be extricated from the internet age? can any modern culture, now? i love that young queer folk are living more freely, but it seems to have swung a horrible way, towards entitlement for a lot of people online. and all that does is make them unhappy when their faves dont come out. i understand that queer people are oppressed and need idols and role models more than straight folk. but you can still enjoy an artist's work even if they dont share your sexual identity, cant you? it might help to make your experience more universal if you can acknowledge that not everything is about sexual identity. we want gay love stories like stranger things to bring straight folk and queer closer, not divide them by making sure gay communities remain separate, surely?

i hope i'm not being unfair.

Thank you for your thoughts! I hadn't really considered the straight perspective in all of this. You bring up a lot of interesting points, and I don't agree with all of it, but I don't necessarily disagree either.

You're right that sometimes rainbows are just rainbows and that, "These things might be big for the queer community, but they already have meanings in the straight ones, too. liking rainbows does not make you queer or even indicate you are queer."

I just had a vision of someone who is really into rainbows, putting them on literally everything, placing them in all their captions, placing them on all their bags, and everyone assumes they're flagging their sexuality. But then it turns out they're actually just a devout Southern Baptist, and they're really into the Noah's Ark story lol.

That being said, rainbows might be pretty universal, but I'd say there are symbols and clues that one might flag with that are very queer. And probably one or two of these things can be a coincidence. But just like with Mike's sexuality, it's not just one thing that clues us in but several subtle things piled on top of each other. And while of course "you can still enjoy an artist's work even if they don't share your sexual identity," there's a subtle magic when they do share it that I'd say can't be fully replicated by anything else.

The thing I find the most interesting about your message is your question, "Do you think this speaks more about the internet age than it does about queer culture itself? and can queer culture ever be extricated from the internet age? can any modern culture, now?" And I do think a lot of what you're critiquing is absolutely a part of the internet age in general. And it's not going away anytime soon.

The one thing I will clarify tho is that the Sadie Sink/girl in red thing is not a matter of her liking a queer artist but the context. At some point in like 2020 or 2021, "do you like girl in red?" actually became a very specific coded conversation/semi-meme for queer girls on TikTok.

So Sadie commenting I like girl in red btw on a girl's Instagram, followed by a winky face, is absolutely within that context. It's not about liking a queer artist, cause "I like Reneé Rapp" doesn't hold the same meaning even though they are both lesbians. And it's not even about liking girl in red as anyone can like her music (I love her music and I'm a guy), but about subtly communicating queerness in a specific way.

That being said, music/media in general ARE cultural signifiers that someone may be "safe," especially if there's a pattern. Like if someone's Spotify exclusively consists of boygenius and other similar artists, if they follow the Heartstopper cast on IG, and if their favorite films on Letterboxd are But I'm a Cheerleader, Bottoms, Carol, and Portrait of a Lady on Fire, that might be a sign lol.

I'm interested in my anons thoughts on this.

[aemiron-main]

ok i talked about “i wanna know what love is” by foreigner playing in s5 when el gets over her feelings for mike/sees mike and will in this post but now im 50/50 between that song or “feels like the first time” by foreigner because “feels like the first time” has lyrics about ‘opening up the door,’ which is also smthn that we hear in songs associated both with milkvan and with will in s3, PLUS ‘feels like the first time’ is about coming out of a previous relationship and moving into a new one where it feels like your failed relationship never happened/it doesn’t hurt you anymore because the person you’re with now makes everything feel new (which gives me  big byler vibes) much to think about

[blueeandyellowmakesgreen]

what's your favorite thing about mike and will's story? (if you see this ask around your dash i'm sending it to a couple mutuals bc i love hearing y'all's thoughts)

hi ella!! <333

god ok this is a toughie bc im trying so hard not to just say everything, but let me go back and think on why byler got me in the first place.

i guess its just the fact that they chose to be with each other.

in every action, in everything they do, everything that has something to do with each other was a deliberate choice to keep the other close.

mike chose to be friends with will. despite his fear and anxiety, he swallowed it all just so he could ask will to be his friend. and will, in return, chose to say yes.

mike chose to follow, listen and care for will, even though he was possessed by the mindflayer. he was in such a close proximity to will, he could have been killed or targeted, but he chose to stay by his side despite what he did to those soldiers and did not blame him even once. and will in return, trusted him enough to tell him about his struggles with the MF and expresses how mike is the only one who didnt make him feel like an outcast.

mike always chooses to apologize first, almost immediately. he apologized to will BEFORE the rain fight even began, his entire demeanor changing from being an asshole to sincere. will in return chose to forget about it, and prioritize his relationship with mike by reassuring him that he'd never join another party once he moves.

and when it came to the rink o mania, despite mike's POV of the entire situation, once again he chose to go to will first and held nothing against will, only for him to tell him he misses him and he wants to be best friends again. will, in return, chooses to accept his reconciliation.

its just the way theyre each other's worst sabotage but also their best opportunities to gravitate back to each other. no matter what type of odds are stacked against them, they CHOOSE to find their way back to each other and approach things deliberately and delicately when it comes to each other, because they dont want to lose each other and value each other to such a high degree.

i think what also makes this hit harder for me has something to do with their personalities; mike is a hotheaded kid who can hold a lot of pride, but he swallows all of that if it meant he could make up with will. and for will its more of the opposite; will is usually a shy, kind kid but hes always so brutally honest with mike. they complement each other. they need each other.

and no matter what fate puts them at, whether it be a girl that landed on one's doorstep or being taken by a literal demon realm, they find ways to run back to each other by choice.

its not fate, nor destiny. thats what makes it true love.

[demadogs]

how do you think mike will react when he finds out the truth about the painting? also how do you think a break up between mike and el could work after Mike's monologue? I literally have no idea and I keep thinking abt it o wanted to know what do you think

i’ll be honest, a lot of what im about to say is wishful thinking but i do think its all very plausible. i think mike and els break up, his coming out, and how he finds out about the painting will all coincide with each other. so i believe the season will start with mike and el still together and theyre alright but we can tell theyre not super all over each other. its nothing like s3 when they were both really trying to be as couply as possible. (if youve read carry on, i imagine it like simon and agathas relationship). we’ll see more ambiguous byler moments and then later mike will be vecna’d and when he’s tranced he will see things mocking him for his feelings for will and his sexuality. i would fucking love if it went full circle and vecna told mike “its not my fault you dont like girls”. this will be the big reveal to the audience AND it will also reveal it to el because she was piggybacking in his mind to defeat vecna. and its bad. like mike had always avoided thinking about his feelings and trying so hard to pretend theyre not there and not let anyone know and all of a sudden hes being forced to confront who he really is. when mikes back in the real world he’ll see el’s bloody nose and realize she was there and knows everything and start to panic and lock himself alone in a room because at this point he and el were still together and mike was still deep in the closet.

i think their breakup will be very emotional to show how much they really do care about each other, just not romantically. not emotional in a sad break way but emotional in the sense that el can’t believe he felt like she would treat him any different if she knew the truth. i want it to be similar to jonathan and wills talk. i imagine mike completely breaking down alone in a locked room because he was basically outed to el. hes so long overdue for a gay panic attack. unlike will, hes been DEEPLY suppressing all his emotions and we’ve never seen him just let it all out. like full blown panic attack, maybe worse than will destroying the castle.

then i think el will let herself in with her powers and see mike just sitting on the floor and she’ll join him and they’ll have a long talk and mikes just apologizing over and over again because he feels like hes hurt her so much just because he didnt want to accept that he doesnt love girls and el will tell him that its ok and she actually also would rather just be friends and they hug it out and I WANT IT TO BE REALLY EMOTIONAL AND SWEET!!! I WANT IT TO MAKE ME CRY!

and THEN after el tells him that, he’s kind of shocked because he thought for sure el loved him based on everything will said so he asks “but what about the painting” and she says the MUCH anticipated line, “what painting?” and mike is so confused and starts to explain how will gave him a painting that he said she commissioned and then told him about how she needs him and thats what gives her the courage to fight on and he explains that thats why he said all that when she was in vecnas mind because as much as he hated to lie, he thought she needed to hear it to continue to fight. el tells him she never told will to paint anything and he asks “well then what was be talking about?” and el kinda knows the answer to that but theyre interrupted. maybe by will knocking on the door and wanting to check on mike.

so then mike is in this weird limbo where he and el are over, el knows his feelings, he kinda maybe suspects that will might like him back but isnt sure and afraid to confront him about it. also unpopular take but i dont think there will be a huge fight when he finds out will lied about the painting. i just dont think thats a lie to be pissed about, i think he’ll be confused more than anything.

then eventually there will be a quiet time with just mike and will (stuck in the upside down i hope) where they have a long talk about everything and how theyve lost each other and miss each other and then mike eventually gives in and kisses him.

i also have an alternate situation in my head that i think is less likely but MAN WOULD IT BE JUICY!!! when mike is vecna’d what if they had the walkie on the way they did in s1 so everybody could hear what was going on in mikes head and what vecna was telling him. vecna could be saying vague shit about him lying to everyone and being disgusting and the whole party could be really confused at what hes talking about but then vecna would call him a mistake and will would figure it out and get up and grab the walkie and sprint to another room so no one else hears the rest and THEN vecna says “its not my fault you dont like girls”. so he’d be outed to el and will but he wouldnt know that will knows. oh my god thatd be so good.

so yeah this is a specific scenario i imagine it going down but to be more broad, el and mikes breakup will also be a coming out scene and it’ll be very emotional and sweet and mike wouldnt be mad about wills lie, just confused at first but he figures out it might be because will feels the same way.

[strangertheories]

I personally never once thought ships like byler or ronnace or steddie would be made canon. I ship them all but with stranger thing I don’t have hope for that stuff, I know what to expect and what not to. I go to fanfiction and keep my gay little heart happy that way.

I understand some things were done deliberately by cast or really the company but Im still like, how realistic is it that they’d do that? I don’t mean how realistic is it in the 80’s but how realistic is it that the writers and directors will do this

And I think people need to realize this more. It sucks to have to view queer ships this way and not het ships but that’s where we’re at right now. I’m not saying it’s okay or fair or that our anger is unjustified I’m saying we have to stop acting so surprised.

I agree and disagree if that's ok (: I also never really expected Steddie and Ronance to be canon, which I've said a couple of times I believe. And in terms of Byler I thought it could and should be canon, but I wouldn't say I ever thought it would be. My mantra was disappointed but not surprised and after watching Volume 2, that's exactly how I feel. I think Byler is a missed opportunity and I think the way they handled Mike and Eleven's relationship was forced and cliché, but I'm unfortunately not shocked by that.

I disagree with the second part of your ask though. I also doubted that the writers would do these ships but as you mentioned, they really pedalled Byler in particular. As I've said before, they're given set answers to each question so everything they said about Byler was pushed and pedalled by Netflix so people would watch the show. So if Netflix is pushing that Byler is the big new ship and "now's the time to ship it", I understand why people were surprised when it wasn't canon. I'm still surprised Will didn't come out because yet again, that was something Netflix pushed. It's why even now people are analysing interviews and trying to claim that Noah is secretly telling us it's going to be canon. So I think I get why people are surprised.

It really sucks that we have to view queer ships differently to straight ones. I doubt as many people would be shocked if it wasn't for all of the promo Byler got and the fact that no one ever told us it wasn't going to happen. But I do think that we shouldn't be surprised if it doesn't happen in S5. I'm really glad people still have hope, but Byler just isn't going to work. They ruined Mike's character, pushed m*leven and made it very clear Mike and Eleven love love each other. Byler at this point would just be rushed fan service. Unfortunately I think the ship has sailed. Pun intended (;

I don't really get why people are shocked by Ronance or Steddie but to be honest most people I see aren't really surprised, more just disappointed. Those ships definitely weren't as pushed as Byler was and I never really expected them to be canon. I get being surprised or disappointed yourself, but I don't think those ships were as bait-y as Byler. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that front though.

I doubt they're going to bait it anymore anyways because of the backlash they've received. Thanks for the ask (: hope you have a good day

[777cherry-blossom777]

SPOILERS FOR STRANGER THINGS VOLUME 2

Ok here’s a list of why everyone is saying this volume was bad. (Part 3)

I’ll sort it into categories bc why not (each group is in a different post bc this is way too long)

CALI SQUAD 1

1. Their plot at first was so stupid. There was literally no purpose. They were running around trying to get the message about the military to El, WHO ALREADY KNEW. sure they didnt know that but at least give them a purpose!

2. When they did finally save El, they were absolutely useless. Sure Argyle got them the salt but the whole point of their group was El. Once again, the entire team relied on her. Like I said in part 2, the d&d game at the beginning really had me hoping for a new hero when Dustin rolled an 11 and got out.

3. Byler. I have soooo much to say on this but im gonna start with how the cast and Netflix themselves handled it. For the entirety of June (pride month) and before, they soaked up all the praise they were getting about finally making byler canon. From Netflix’s official account posting videos mocking El and Mike’s relationship multiple times, to the cast always confirming byler and being all giggly like it was going to be some happy ship, this was the type of queerbaiting I was definitely not expecting to see from a sci-fi YA tv show set in the 80s (the whole show is just gay, like not even counting the characters just the idea). In 2022. Do better.

4. Byler part 2. Yes Will is gay. Which means Netflix hinted at every opportunity that their ONLY TWO queer characters would be getting into a relationship and yet not only were they both still single at the end of the season, they were used to further straight relationships!!! Will’s pain and heartfelt monologue was just used to further the toxic straight relationship, and the painting scene was heartbreaking. Not only did we not even get a coming out scene (yes I get hes a kid but seriously with all the homophobia in this show they’ve said so many slurs its a little weird they cant say gay), but will was literally forced to watch as they excluded him from everything. Hes not a punching bag differ brothers, you cant make every bad thing happen to him.

5. Mike’s character. Related to reasons #2 and #3, but what is his excuse? He suddenly switched from a caring, protective friend (s1 and 2) to mean and shallow (s3 and 4). Out of nowhere he was awkwardly avoiding Will, his BEST FRIEND SINCE AGE FIVE, for no reason. Everyone said internalised homophobia, aka Mike using the classic ‘you make time feel things I shouldnt be feeling so im not gonna be around you anymore so I stop feeling this’ tactic. This would also explain why he never says I love you to El, and why the one time he did try to say it before volume 2 (in s3) he was awkward as hell and avoided the word completely. Seeing as this is apparently not the case, WHERE IS HIS EXCUSE?! He suddenly switched from treating Will like the light of his life to treating Will like shit. Ignoring him, excluding him, not even noticing him CHOKING ON TEARS WHILE WILL WAS LITERALLY SITTING NEXT TO HIM? No. That just doesn’t make sense with his s1 and 2 character.

Im gonna make another part for this group because I have more to say.

[deepenthevoid]

First running review of watching stranger things for the first time:

Episode 1.

-NO FLASH WARNING????

-typical terrified doctor running away from mysterious force in a darkly lit building. I bet it’s gonna be some supernatural monster. He’s def gonna die. It is gonna pan out to a happy friends/family thing next or a police office? PO might be too much CM to lol…

-NOT THE ELEVATOR YOU DUMMY

-istg if these lights flick off one by one or turn off and turn back on to a monster who runs to him….

-yep. toldja not to use the elevator. Dr is dead. Stupid. It was in fact a monster. Idk what. Is this the demigorgon everyone talks abt? I thought those were tall? It wasn’t shown but on the roof of the elevator? Unless the elevator is absurdly tall why the the doctor completely disappear?

-panned out to a water spigot thingie. What??

-panned out to friends telling each other a scary story. Cute. 🫶🏼 the Curly haired kid. I forgot his name. Devin? Dustin! He’s a cutie I wanna pinch his cheeks and give him a lollipop and pat his head. He would be a cute lil bro. Nerd.

-foreshadowing. It’s a demOgorgon. (The monster attacking the doctor.) (how did a demogoron come to earth??? Manifestation???)

-NANCY IS MIKES OLDER SISTER??? WHAT.

-mikes mom is a milf. Omg. I want in on that.

-Ayo. AYO. THE DEMOGORGON GOT HIM. AYO NOT THE FORESHADOWING. SAVE WILLBYLER. #SAVEWILL WTF????????

-the music is good. I love the cinematic of the bike lights. Nicely done.

-BAHAHA DUSTIN.

-what the fuck is this boy doing?? Doesn’t he know to his friends house?

-THE FUCK IS THAT???? Nah bro this is like Damon on TVD wtf. RUN WHAT IS THAT. EEEEEEK FUCK OUTTA HERE WHAT

-nope. Nope. I don’t fuck w that. RUN LIL BOY.

-I don’t think I can watch this

-COMEDIC RELIEF WOULD BE GOOD RN

-SOMEONE OPEN THE DAMN DOOR AND DONT LET IT BE THE DEMOGORGON

-WHY IS IT HUNTING THIS LIL BOY?? WHY WILL??

-sacrifice the loud dog and run. GOOD BOY.

-idk how but I just KNOW it’ll be behind him. I bet he’ll drop the gun.

-I’m trembling. It’s paused. These directors are gooooood. Or maybe I’m just a sissy.

-I KNEW IT.

-WHERED HE GO TF? QUIT HIDING THIS SHIT WTF

-DONT SMOKE IN THE HOUSE DAD ITLL TURN UR CEILINGS BLACK AND THE WHOLE HOUSE WILL SMELL BAD! BAD!!!!

-acab but damn his butt is huge I wanna bite it

-intrusive thoughts. Goddamn. I don’t even know his name. War criminal demogorgon destroyer prison escapee guy

-don’t get onto your son when he’s trying to help out. Idk who he is but he’s a good kid. You’re pissing me off and it’s the first episode, ms byler.

-no bike locks? Whew. Those r the safe old towns I guess. Old days.

-is that young Tom holland?

-Tom holland wannabe I better not hear a racially motivated statement coming from you…

-at least it wasn’t racially motivated. Sorry Dustin.

-bullying is never okay. Sic the demogorgon on them.

-I just KNOW Nancy acts like hermione. Goody twoshoes but outside of society just a fuckin badass rockstar.

-god I love redheads. Her body is to die for. Gorgeous person. Wow. Idk u yet but I’m just in awe.

-um EXCUSE ME??? NANCYS HANDS?? I FUCKING LOVE WOMEN OH YM GOD.

-Steve move out of the way I’m imagining Nancy is in love with me.

-YES MAAM SET THOSE BOUNDARIES.

-ok Steve looks pretty sharp in those clothes…

-Alexa play djo…

-who the fuck is Lonnie? Good on her to know her sons sexuality. Bad on her to use it as an insult or something to be ashamed of. No wonder will is quiet and reserved. This actor is good. How old is he in this episode? I’m proud of you, Noah schnapp. You’re an amazing actor even at this age. Incredible.

-hopper and miss thang have a history??

-notes from my knowledge of s4: THEYRE NOT TOGETHER?? IM SO FUCKIN CONFUSED???

-LONNIES A MAN???

-ohhhh Lonnie’s probably wills dad. Nothing to do w this huh??… maybe Lonnie is behind the lore of why will is connected to the underworld or the other world or the nether portal idk what it’s fuckin called the uk or whatever

-dr Brenner huh? What is this, the hulk?

-…that’s banner. Shut up, marvel fans.

-IS THAT PAPA???

-send in the mf swat team not a bunch of fuckin doctors wtf??

-ngl the kitty throbbed when he got authoritative talk like that more daddy drunk cop man

-the dad of mike is just fucking clueless 😭 people want bimbo men well there is one 😭

-why is Nancy wearing HEELS in her ROOM? I wear my crocs 😭

-HE IS SUCKING HER FACE. Straight ppl 🙁

-ooo a smooth talker…

-here’s a theory: mike only likes el in a romantic way bc she appeared in a moment of need when they were looking for will and helped get will back. Mike likes el bc she symbolizes wills safety to mike while also fitting into society’s stigma of mlw instead of mike being mlm

ALRIGHT FOLKS THATS ALL OF EPISODE 1. Thanks for joining me.!

[biigiiiii]

Heyyyy idk I was just watching the van scene again trying to imagine watching it as the part of the GA who would take it as face value, and believe that el actually did commission it and Will wasn’t lying… and…??!! I really tried lmao, it was difficult but my takeaway was this: I was a bit confused about Johnathans glances, but just brushed it off. Same with the whole ‘El doesn’t know much about D&D’ (the thing in her letter about will painting for a girl could have been a cover up so Mike wouldn’t guess the painting was actually commissioned from her as a gift). I guess though that that could be explained with the time jump, and Will helping El by brainstorming ideas for the painting. And when Will was sobbing I was like huh….. yeah makes sense he’s really upset about his sister, naturally, like she could be dead or in serious danger and obviously Johnathans concerned for similar reasons but he’s probably driving while high so he needs to really focus on the road.

So ok. That was my attempt at getting in the GAs head, and I never ever want to ever do that again lmao. But at least I can understand how they miss this stuff when they’re just casual viewers. Like, they could be used to watching soaps or telenovelas or something where everything is spoon fed because it’s light viewing (which is fine), so…. But it’s gonna be so cool for them when season 5 comes out and byler happens (or at least it’s canonically confirmed that Will is gay and in love with Mike), that the ones that don’t see it coming (like that one analyst guy who completely missed Will’s lie until the official script came out), they’ll probably look back and go wow, how did I not see this before? And they might be inspired to think more deeply and critically about the art and media they consume. I’ve said it before, I’m a little bit jealous because I’d love to experience byler that way and, as they say, ignorance is bliss lmao but im a neurodivergent over thinking queer so I was always destined to not be part of the GA haha

So, in conclusion, byler needs to happen for world peace 😌

[sirendoesomestuf]

C’est La Vie, Says The Old Folks, It Goes To Show You Never Can Tell - Phase One // Byler x Doctor Who //

ok so basically this is the first ‘chapter’ (they are very short chapters, im putting this all in one ao3 chapter) of my byler doctor who crossover fic that i’m about halfway done with maybe. since i have adhd i know that it will probably take a while to get done so i decided to share the first chapter on here because of reasons i myself do not know lmao.

basically the plot is: wills a time lord, mikes immortal, they are professors at moon college. have fun.

this is obviously not all what i have done, i have like 9k words so far, so maybe i’m not halfway done yet. i just felt like sharing this

tw- mentions of death and seppuku

——————————————————

Chapter 1- The Calm Before the Storm

Riiiiinnnngggg

Riiiiiiinnnnnggggg

Riiiiinnggg-

"Professor Byers from the arts department, how can I help you?"

"It's about Wheeler."

"What did he do this time?"

"He's being put on no-pay suspension for the rest of the month."

"For what?"

"For committing seppuku in front of a lecture hall full of freshmen."

"That's just what Mike does."

"Professor Byers, please do not encourage your husband's behavior."

"He gets better every time!"

"His immortality should not change the fact that he is regularly traumatizing new students."

"Well, some of them are psychology students aren't they?" There was a pause from the other end.

"I-I do not see how that could change anything."

"I think it gives them a very good insight into the trauma of seeing a dead body." The other line was silent for about a minute.

"Professor Byers, you cannot be serious. For one this was not one of his psychology lectures, but one of his Anthropology ones." Mike, seemingly after he learned the true species of his beloved, became a slight overachiever.

"And he committed seppuku? What was this lecture about?"

"We're not completely sure to be honest." Will sighed.

"Where is he?"

"We sent him home." Where Mike would get a dirty look from Will, a list of chores they need done--the study really needs a good going through--and a grocery list. Will sighed.

"And...what do you expect me to do about this?"

"Talk to him?"

"What should I say to him?" The other line stayed silent. Will leaned back in his chair.

"I have an appointment soon; I have to go." That was a lie. This wasn't the first time Mike had killed himself in front of other people--hell, this wasn't the first time Mike killed himself in front of students. These days Mike is never careful if he's the only one in danger. Will can't blame him--why would you be careful if you came back to life 4 minutes after you died every time. Will hung up the phone. He worries about Mike; Will has no idea if the day will come when Mike doesn't wake up and that scares him--the idea of their lives together ending before the end of time itself.

Needless to say, when Will came home, he and Mike had words.

Will found Mike lying on the dining room table. They didn't live in a house--they lived on the moon, it's not like they had the space to. They lived in what was essentially a dorm with multiple rooms. Mike was nose deep in a book titled 'The History of Honor in Medieval Japan', a very ironic book title. Will slammed the door and stared at him. Mike blinked and had an expression that screamed 'I did something wrong; I know I did something wrong, and I am not sorry for it.'

"Mike, you have to stop doing this!"

"Why?"

"Because eventually they're not going to put up with your bullshit and you're going to get fired." Will put his bag down on the couch.

"So......I'll just go full time with the Ops!"

"Oh yeah! That's a great idea!"

"Why wouldn't it be?"

"Because The Master is still after me, which means he could be after you, so forgive me for being a bit worried about you going full time on special ops missions for the Galactic Federation without me!"

"I've gone on them before! Why are you always so worried about me?"

"Because you're still human, and humans are fragile."

"I'm immortal, I come back to life every time I die!"

"But what if you don't! What if you die someday and you don't come back?! What am I supposed to do then?" Mike sat up and swallowed.

"You...you'll manage. You managed before."

"Because I knew you were still alive Mike!" Mike stayed quiet. "Mike. I love you. So much. I can't live without you."

"And you think I can? Do you have any idea how hard it was when you were on the run and I wasn't with you? Two hundred years and the only person I had was Professor Song!"

"I didn't want The Master to know who you were!" The human got off the table and went over to his husband. Mike cupped his face and kissed Will's forehead.

"Alright. I'll be more careful."

"You fucking better." Mike smiled.

"I promise!" Will smiled back.

"So no more killing yourself in front of your students?" Mike looked away and Will could hear a little laugh from him.

"Yeah."

"Thank you." The two hugged. After a couple seconds Will pulled away.

"I'm still mad at you."

"I figured."

"So you know I'm gonna make you get the groceries and clean out the lining closet?" Mike sighed but nodded. Will grinned. "Thank you~" Mike let out a breath and smiled. He stole a kiss from Will.

"I made dinner."

"Are you trying to bribe me?"

"Nooooooo...." Will giggled.

"What did you make?"

"TV Dinner." Will grinned.