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ineffable-romantics · 2 years ago

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Some thoughts on why and how I believe Crowley and Aziraphale's relationship would incorporate sex/why I do not read them as wholly asexual:

This is something I've seen the most discourse about in this fandom, and I've had a few thoughts of my own that I really wanted to expand upon in a full meta/character analysis post. I do understand that this can be a contentious topic, so first, let me clarify a few things:

First of all, this is going to be long. Tbh it probably won't be that organized either. I ramble and I'm not very good at editing, so just... you know. Be warned. (*Hi, it's me from 2 days after writing this; I'm really not kidding, it's LONG)

These are all my own thoughts. They might not be hot takes, because recently I've seen more than a few people come to the same conclusions on a lot of these points as I have. But I've also had these notes in my drafts for about a week and a half now, and have been continuously adding to it as things have occurred to me. This post is essentially just somewhere for me to collect the separate but related meta I've been kicking around in my head.

I fully respect anyone who does see and prefer an asexual reading of this relationship. These are my own thoughts and interpretations as someone who is not asexual. I am in the LGBT+ community, so while I do know a few things about the asexuality spectrum, I am by no means an expert.

This is NOT something I expect, need, or even necessarily want the show (or, God forbid, Neil's tumblr ask box) to address. Tonally, it's just not that kind of show. Newt and Anathema's sex scene was very much played for laughs, and it worked for that reason. If the show found a way to address it in a way that was both appropriate for the tone of the show and ultimately satisfying, then great! But there is so much more to this relationship than sex, and I didn't need a kiss to confirm their love, so I certainly don't need a sex scene. As immortal beings (as I assume they'll stay) there is so much of the rest of their lives we'll never get to see. You can headcanon them as asexual and potentially be right. I can headcanon them as not and be equally potentially right. Again, these are just a collection of my own thoughts, because I think the question of sexuality (or lack thereof) is just as interesting a facet of these characters as any other.

Note: Tbh I've been second-guessing this whole post and debated deleting the whole thing several times for being silly or unnecessary, bc I don't want anyone to think that this is the only thing I care about when it comes to this story/characters. But if nothing else, it's inspired me to write in a way that nothing has in a very long time, so I've decided it's worth continuing, if for no other reason than that.

This is going to be a mixed bag of textual reading, subtextual reading, and a full-on reach or two. It's been a while since I've been in an English class, but if my teachers expected me to find a deeper meaning behind blue curtains, you can expect me to read too deeply into the symbolism of a loaded rifle or an ox rib. (This is probably not what my professors had in mind when grading my literary analysis papers but oh well) My point is, if it feels like a reach, I'm as aware of it as you are. I am in no way saying that all (or even any) of my points made were deliberate on the part of Neil or the actors or the writers or the directors. I am no longer the delulu Apple Tree Yard child of my youth, I promise.

If anything said here is in any way offensive or hurtful to anyone in the asexual community, please do not hesitate to message me or comment and let me know exactly what it was. I promise you it is not my intention to do so, and am happy to clarify or outright edit anything that reads that way.

With all that being said, let's talk about why I think Crowley and Aziraphale would absolutely fuck nasty incorporate sex into their relationship.

Note: I am out of practice with essay writing, so I think I'll just go down the bullet points of notes I have been making, and expand on each as best I can

Food

Where better to start than with Aziraphale's introduction to Pleasures Of The Flesh? (Just a heads up, this entire post may feel very Aziraphale-heavy, and with good reason).

This might be the least hot take here. We've all seen the Job minisode. We've all seen That Scene.

Whether this was intentional or not, the symbolism here is off the charts. Eve was tempted by an apple. So why not go a similar route and tempt Aziraphale with another fruit, or cheese, or bread, or literally anything else for his first experience with food? Instead, we go with a huge, glistening slab of fresh meat that he proceeds to absolutely go feral upon, moaning and gasping into his meal while Crowley watches with what definitely doesn't look to be disgust or even satisfaction with a good temptation. There's surprise at the ferocity of Aziraphale's appetite, certainly. But ultimately he looks to be intensely fascinated by it, while the thunder crashes, the music crescendos, and the earth literally shakes around them.

(It's also interesting to note how very little it takes for Crowley to tempt him with the ox rib. One murmured suggestion, a bit of unwavering eye contact, and vavoom Aziraphale immediately meets him in the middle.)

Cut to Aziraphale devouring the rest of the meat with Crowley splayed back on a makeshift bed, drinking wine and continuing to watch him indulge through half-lidded eyes. Outside a thunderstorm rages while they're learning secrets about each other in warm flickering firelight. It's cosy, it's intimate, and if they'd thrown in a bearskin throw blanket, it might as well be a post-coital scene straight out of Game of Thrones.

The next time (chronologically) we see them discuss food is when Aziraphale "tempts" Crowley with oysters in Rome. So Crowley first tempts Aziraphale with meat and then Aziraphale tempts Crowley with what is widely regarded to be an aphrodisiac. Interesting.

And then chronologically after that, the Arrangement begins to form, which has always reeked of a friends with benefits situation. Just to throw that in there.

It's What Humans Do

In the very first episode, we're shown Gabriel's obvious disgust and bewilderment towards Aziraphale eating sushi, calling it "gross matter" and being proud of the fact that he does not sully his body with it. Aziraphale initially tries to defend his own enjoyment in it, before passing it off as something that humans do, as something he simply has to do in order to blend in (which we know very well is not the case).

He does this again in season 2, passing off Nina and Maggie being in love as "something humans do". But it isn't, is it? Angels are beings of love, and can sense it, and understand very well what it is... up to a point. Even romantic love is obviously within their wheelhouse, given what we now know happened between Gabriel and Beelzebub (we'll come back to them).

What the "humans do" that angels wouldn't understand is messy, physical forms of love.

But here's the thing: Aziraphale and Crowley love doing what the humans do. They love drinking, they (or at least Aziraphale) love eating. They love music. Crowley loves driving and sleeping and watching rom-coms and sitcoms. Aziraphale loves reading and doing magic and earning little licenses and certificates for achievement in his various hobbies. They love to playact at being human so much that they've stopped playacting and started building a genuinely human lifestyle for themselves and with each other.

Once together in an unambiguously romantic sense, why do we think they wouldn't also want to explore one of the most prominent, intimate, powerful human expressions of love and desire with each other?

Angels, Demons, & Asexuality

Here's where I really want to clarify that in no way do I mean that sex is necessary for a healthy, fulfilling, and loving romantic relationship, or that the lack of desire for sex makes you any less human. Asexuality is a sexuality as valid and human as any. What I would say is that it is definitely in the human minority compared to allosexuality.

Angels and demons, on the other hand, are predominately asexual. Sexless/genderless unless Making An Effort. (Which, btw, is a concept introduced as early as the original book; why even bring it up as a possibility? Why not keep angels/demons being sexless/asexual as a hard and fast rule, if not to open up the potential for later use? Chekhov's Effort, if you will. And isn't that something that Aziraphale in particular is shown to do time and time again? He makes an effort in French and driving and magic, doesn't he?)

And this is why I don't believe Aziraphale and Crowley necessarily need to be asexual, narratively. There is already a huge amount of ace rep within the angels and demons (and no, not just the horrible ones. Muriel also doesn't "drink the tea" and has no reason or desire thus far to Make An Effort, and there are certainly other angels and demons who aren't horrible like the archangels seem to be who likely wouldn't Make An Effort either).

The central conflict for Aziraphale and Crowley is that they are on their own side, the ones who went native, the ones who are so different in so many ways from their respective hives. It would make sense for them to also break away from traditional angel/demon asexuality.

I say "traditional angel/demon asexuality", because I would also like to note that I would absolutely not rule out demisexuality for either of them. This post is being written to as a response to people who specifically believe that they (like the rest of the angels/demons seem to be) would be sex-averse in a relationship, and that it wouldn't be a factor in their relationship. I could easily read them as demisexual, but I do think there would be no real way of verifying this, because they've never been able to form as close an emotional relationship with anyone else but each other. Certainly not in heaven, and I can't imagine they would be able to form that kind of attachment with any of the humans, who they love and emulate but ultimately regard as the separate species they are. So yes, they could either be allosexual or demisexual, in my opinion.

Then again, now that I think about it, Making An Effort itself could be a great metaphor for demisexuality, since they would be entirely sexless/asexual until they have enough of an emotional connection with someone to consciously manifest otherwise. Since the other angels and demons don't generally form those types of emotional connections with anyone, there hasn't been a precedent for it.

Except...

Brielzebub

We do have a precedent for it now, don't we? Gabriel and Beelzebub fell in love. They are a direct foil for Crowley and Aziraphale's relationship, speedrunning right through their courtship and finding their happily ever after on the other side of things.

For being such a 1 to 1 comparison, it feels deliberate that they did not kiss. They held hands, they were gooey with each other, but they did not kiss. That feels like such a deliberate thing to omit when you know what's to come at the end of the episode between Crowley and Aziraphale.

And going back to the food = sex metaphor for a moment, let's notice how even as they fell in love over the years, even when pints and crisps were there on the table in front of them, they never felt the desire to reach out for them. They didn't need to. It's a date (love story) even if you aren't eating dinner (sleeping together).

Yes, I know Jim liked hot chocolate. No, I am not counting it because I don't consider Jim and Gabriel to be the same person with the same proclivities, and Jim was highly suggestible at the time anyway.

Gabriel and Brielzebub's big happily ever after moment (as of now) was one between two asexual supernatural beings. They did not need to kiss to drive the point home. They showed what Crowley and Aziraphale could have, if they would only acknowledge it.

Crowley & Aziraphale's Dissatisfaction

But they do have that already, don't they? If you really think about it, what do Gabriel and Beelzebub do with each other that Crowley and Aziraphale don't already? They hold hands, they spend time together, they create little rituals, they give gifts, they're visibly and verbally affectionate with each other, etc. They are more or less already in a romantic asexual marriage relationship with each other, aren't they?

And it doesn't seem to be enough for either of them.

At the beginning of the season, Crowley is immediately shown to be unsatisfied with the way things are. Obviously part of it comes from living in his car, but it seems to be more than that (especially since Aziraphale makes it clear that the bookshop is just as much Crowley's as his, implying that he could have been living there the whole time and is choosing not to, for some reason?). You could argue he's feeling unmoored without Hell telling him what to do, but isn't that what he wanted? Isn't that what he still wants, by the end of the season? All season long, he's never indicated the desire for a new job, or a new project. He stopped the apocalypse because he wanted the freedom to openly spend time with Aziraphale, to spend his time on Earth however he sees fit. Until Gabriel arrives, he has exactly that (minus a flat).

So where does the dissatisfaction come from? And if it represents anything to do with his relationship, what does he want out of it that he isn't getting already?

I think Crowley only really comes to the realisation of what he's missing when Nina names it for him, not only putting them in the category of romantic, but physical (outright asking if they are sleeping together). These two posts [1], [2] go into more detail about what I mean, but I think it really pushes him into acknowledging that their relationship is more human than either of them have stopped to consider, and what that might mean as far as everything a human relationship can entail.

After all, Nina and Maggie only advised that he should talk to Aziraphale, make clear his feelings. The decision to kiss him, to tip them over the edge from nonphysical to physical, that was all him. And no, kissing isn't sex, but I wonder how taboo even that might be in the kind of all-encompassing asexuality most angels seem to identify with. (If they're disgusted by food and drink, I can only imagine what they think of snogging, much less sex.)

Aziraphale doesn't have this moment of someone observing their relationship from the outside. He loves Crowley, and as of 1941 probably even knows he's in love with him in a way that Crowley doesn't understand yet. Which makes sense, since love is technically his job, he'd be more likely to recognise it for what it is.

However, Aziraphale's reference for romance and relationships is Jane Austen. It's chaste. It's dancing and dinner and doing sweet things for each other and roses and candles and handholding. He contextualises his love for Crowley in that soft fantasy sort of way, where it's there, it's obviously there, but it's neat and easy and unspoken. Not to quote Glee in this, the year of our lord 2023, but it's all very "the touch of the fingertips is as sexy as it gets".

Someone should tell that to Aziraphale's face, then.

I'm not going to pretend I know what Michael Sheen's script notes were, but there were definitely some Choices™ made. Because yes, there were plenty of moments in both seasons with Aziraphale looking at Crowley in a sweet, loving, smitten way. And then there were moments that were yearning.

But yearning for what, exactly? All of those sappy Jane Austen tropes already apply to the two of them. So why are there moments where Aziraphale is looking Crowley up and down like the last eclair in the window and licking his lips and visibly exhaling like he's trying to get in control of himself (see: Bastille scene + Crowley telling Muriel to ask him if they have any other questions about love)? Why is Aziraphale not only unconcerned when Crowley shoves him bodily up against a wall in s1, but staring at his lips and a beat too late in noticing Sister Mary's arrival? Why are some of his lines so suggestive? I'm sorry, but the car ride after the church explosion might as well have been the beginning of a Pizza Man porn with a really weird Blitz theme. If even my mother picked up on that vibe, I can't imagine it wasn't intentional on part of both the dialogue and the delivery.

(This section may feel like more of a reach/joke, but I'm really only 20% joking. These are writers and actors who are EXTREMELY good at their jobs; they know what they were doing here.)

More importantly, I don't think Aziraphale is even aware that there is more to what he wants. He lives in the Jane Austen fantasy and it never even occurs to him that he might be interested in anything further. It never even occurs to him that, as an angel, there is anything further to be interested in in the first place. Until Crowley forces it to occur to him. Just like I believe Nina forced Crowley to confront the idea that romantic love is what he's been feeling all along, I believe Crowley forced Aziraphale to confront the idea that physical intimacy is something he's been wanting, without even realising.

Aziraphale's Hedonism

Expanding on Aziraphale for a moment. We talked about his relationship with food, but we all know that Aziraphale is defined by his love of things that Feel Good.

It isn't just that he and Crowley love human things. Aziraphale loves the best of the best, or at least his version of it. He doesn't just love food, he loves going to fancy restaurants. He doesn't just love clothes, he loves soft, cosy, warm, plush clothes, or shiny, flashy, bougie fashion. He loves the warmth of tea and cocoa, loves getting drunk, and sitting in a comfy chair in the sunlight. He doesn't just experience, he indulges.

Given the emphasis put on things that Aziraphale loves just because they Feel Good, it feels narratively strange to assume that he wouldn't enjoy the feeling of being touched, or that he wouldn't be willing to try it, at least once, with someone he cared very deeply for. And just like the ox rib, I think that once he gets the first taste of things, he would absolutely tip over into complete and utter self-indulgence.

Dancing

I also think that dancing could be construed as a huge metaphor here. After all, we're told flat-out that angels don't Dance. Except one.

I would argue that Aziraphale, in fact, Made An Effort to learn how to Dance. He threw himself into the gavotte with delight (at a Victorian gay club; noted) and worked hard to be good at it. He's chomping at the bit to Dance with Crowley, working up the nerve to ask him with undeniably romantic intent and eagerness. So, angels don't Dance... unless they Make An Effort to do so.

We are told that demons, on the other hand, do Dance, but not well. Makes sense, since they're the ones who would want to encourage a deadly sin like lust, but have as little understanding of human love and physical intimacy as the angels. Crowley, however, is shown to be an excellent dancer at the ball, especially in his compatibility with Aziraphale.

(But Aziraphale WandaVisioned the ball so everyone knew how to dance! Yes, he did. However, the rest of the brainwashing doesn't seem to affect Crowley in any way, and they did actually live through the time period where this sort of dancing was a social norm; I'd be surprised if he never needed to learn. After all, the demons can't spell either, and Crowley is at least functionally literate, as far as we know.)

As of today, it's also been confirmed that when Aziraphale asked Crowley to dance, Crowley replied with "you don't dance." Not "WE don't dance". So going along with the metaphor, Crowley is just now discovering that Dancing is something Aziraphale is interested in at all, much less with him, and not denying that he himself is interested in Dancing. In his defense, I believe he was asleep for a few years while Aziraphale was learning the gavotte, so he wasn't exactly aware of Aziraphale's hot girl summer.

Love Languages

I want to expand on that; Crowley and Aziraphale's compatibility. Specifically in regards to their individual love languages.

We all know Crowley's love language is Acts of Service. I don't think there's any debate there. He loves it, Aziraphale loves it, they're both aware of it, we're all aware of it, God and Satan are aware of it, no surprise there.

You may disagree with me, but I believe Aziraphale's love language is Physical Touch, for a number of reasons. One of which being his aforementioned hedonism. Aziraphale likes things that Feel Good, remember? He likes soft clothes, and well-worn books. Neil himself has said that they like holding hands. And any time he is taken by surprise (Brielzebub getting together, the wave of love in Tadfield, etc.) what is the first thing he does? Reaches out for Crowley. He stops him with a hand to the chest in the pub. He leads him by the hand to the dance floor. He guides him by the waist in the graveyard. He reaches out during the entire Brielzebub scene, whether he can reach Crowley or not. Despite his own turmoil, he grasps at Crowley's back during the kiss.

The one time Crowley reaches out for him (not counting the kiss yet; we'll get there), he is aggressively pushed against a wall (by someone he loves and trusts) with a complete and utter lack of concern (and perhaps some interest, depending on how you read it).

And when he isn't reaching out for anyone, or there isn't anyone to reach out to? Well, he's wringing his own hands together, squeezing his own fingers, as if to find that physical comfort in himself.

So. With that theory in mind, we have Aziraphale (Physical Touch) + Crowley (Acts of Service). Throw in 6000+ years of deep love, cherished companionship, and forcibly repressed longing, and there is a very real potential of this combination resulting in fierce sexual compatibility. Where Aziraphale would want to touch and be touched, to indulge in physical pleasure with someone he adores, in the same the way he indulges in every other fine thing in his life. And where Crowley would want to indulge him in return, to give him everything he wants, and to take pleasure in Aziraphale's pleasure, in the same way he enjoys watching him take joy in food everything else.

So Aziraphale is an angel who is insecure about his own less-than-holy desires, who would want to treat Crowley like a luxury to be touched and cherished and adored. And Crowley is a demon who has, over the millennia, been unhappy about how they've been forced to deny even their friendship with each other, who would want Aziraphale to feel comfortable and safe and encouraged to indulge in earthly delights. That sounds like a stunning recipe for sexual compatibility to me.

"You said 'trust me'" / "And you did"

Just like the Job minisode, the Blitz is RIFE with symbolism (intentional or otherwise). This one will be quick, but I did want to touch on it because I thought it was interesting. Maybe I'm reaching at this point, but I'm assuming you read the tin.

First of all, Crowley not wanting to admit to never firing a gun before; comes off as someone who very much does not want to admit to their crush that they're a virgin ("You must have done this lots of times!" / "Umm.... yyyyyeah.")

(You could make the argument that Aziraphale having a firearms license and a Derringer in a hollowed-out book is symbolic of him not being a virgin while Crowley is. I disagree, for reasons I'll go into later, but it's a valid reading. However, I see it more like keeping a condom in your wallet; it's there in case you need it, but the opportunity has not yet risen no pun intended.)

More importantly, the theme of this entire minisode is trust. We already know they trust each other with their lives against the rest of Heaven, Hell, and the world. But specifically, this is about the importance of having complete trust in your partner in a charged, physically vulnerable, intimate moment, where the only danger is between the two of you.

Aziraphale needs to believe Crowley would never hurt him if he can help it. Crowley needs to trust Aziraphale's unwavering blind faith in him. Frankly, it all feels very symbolic of two people deeply in love losing their respective virginities with each other.

The trick is a success, and they share an intimate candlelit dinner in which they reaffirm their faith in each other. Aziraphale also begins to voice his agreement with Crowley, that maybe Heaven's rules shouldn't have to be as black and white as they are, and that there are benefits to... blurring the lines, shades of grey, wink wink (at which point even my mom was like, whoa guys, this is a family show).

Btw also: Can we all agree how much it looked like Crowley was getting ready to get a lapdance in that one scene? You know the one.

Also also: "Aim for my mouth"? Come on.

The Birds & The Bees

Now that I think of it, there's also something to be said for the fact that Crowley and Aziraphale are both obviously familiar with where babies come from (how they're made and how they're born) while the other angels aren't.

Something something Aziraphale and Crowley fundamentally understand sex and reproduction in a way the other angels (and probably demons) very much do not, nor have any desire to.

Probably not important. Just thought it was worth mentioning.

The Kiss™ & Religious Trauma

The Kiss. Where to even begin?

This has definitely been the hardest one to start, because there is so much going on here that I definitely won't be able to cover it all, and will certainly miss a few things here and there.

Aziraphale's reaction to the kiss afterwards is the most interesting to me. And I don't mean directly after, I don't mean the "I forgive you" part. I mean the way he touches his lips when Crowley is no longer in the room and he no longer needs to save face, when he is completely alone. Had it been directly after the kiss, it would have been rightfully read as horror, or disgust, a shield to discourage further action.

It's not. It isn't just a touch, it's a press. As desperate and angry and unexpected and imperfect as the kiss had been, Aziraphale is pressing it into himself, recreating the feeling as best he can. Beneath all the poor timing and shock and hurt from their fight and fallout, I think it's fair to say that it was something he enjoyed. Something he doesn't think he should enjoy, something that Feels Good that he only allows himself to indulge in when completely alone.

Remember, Aziraphale's idea of love is Jane Austen and gentleness and courtship and fantasy. If he'd ever even considered kissing an option, it might have been gentle pecks, cheek kisses, forehead kiss, hand kisses. Soft, safe, chaste affection.

Crowley's kiss turns all of that on its head. He introduces physical intimacy in a very real, very messy, very human way that I don't think Aziraphale ever even considered could apply to them. Considering what other angels are like and what they look down on, even Aziraphale's Jane Austen fantasies probably would have been considered taboo.

So for their first kiss to be rough and desperate and passionate in the way it was, of course he was confused and in shock. It was deeply physical, and as overwhelming and awful as it was in the moment, it Felt Good. Enough that he grasped at Crowley and kissed back, if only just for a moment, before stopping himself. Enough that he actively pressed it into his lips afterwards, in private, to remember.

I adore how Neil has decided to evolve these characters past the first book/season. More so in this season, Aziraphale and Crowley have both become such interesting allegories for queer people on either side of the spectrum of toxic religion. Aziraphale in particular obviously, because he is the side that so desperately wants to believe, to make a difference, and to unlearn all of the propaganda he's been fed over such a long time. Just like so much of organised religion, there is so much that he is told, time and time again, that he should not want, that he is silly or stupid or outright wrong for wanting. It reminds me so much of the severe Catholic guilt one might feel for wanting/engaging in sex for the first time, and the stigma of being queer layered on top of that.

What is so critical to Aziraphale's character is that he goes on wanting, and more than that, actively pursues. He was convinced to go up against Heaven and Hell and stop all of Armageddon because he wanted to go on listening to music and eating lunch and reading books and enjoying the simple company of the person he cares most deeply for, even if that person is supposed to be the enemy.

All this to say that if angels are as generally asexual/sex-averse as I believe them to be, narratively speaking, it would make sense for Aziraphale to be singular in that regard as well. Mirroring his first experience with food, it would make sense for Crowley to be the one to first introduce this new messy, physical, human dynamic between them, for Aziraphale to hesitate (obviously we are at the Hesitation phase at the moment), and then (eventually) for him to dive in wholeheartedly, to absolutely glut himself on this new thing that Feels Good. It would make sense for his character development to show him overcoming his metaphorical Catholic guilt and pursuing the sexual intimacy most (if not all) of the other angels would scorn.

(I can't help but remember that plot idea Neil described from the unwritten sequel, with Aziraphale in a hotel room trying to watch a full porno by way of the free 2-minute teaser clips so he wasn't technically sinning by paying for it. I so hope this is used in season 3, because gosh, I wonder why Aziraphale would suddenly be so interested in observing human physical intimacy after 6,000 years. Lonely and doing a little surreptitious research there, angel?)

Crowley, on the other hand, is the queer person who has broken free from his toxic religion. He prides himself on being his own person, on their his own side. He doesn't have the hang-ups Aziraphale does. He doesn't worry that he's going to be judged or cast aside for wanting things he's not supposed to. So it only makes sense for him to be the first one to suggest/initiate physical intimacy. It makes sense for him to be the one who "goes too fast" (another fantastic example of this dynamic beginning as early as s1; what is that conversation in the car meant to represent, if not Aziraphale being overwhelmed by the intensity of their relationship, and his fear of succumbing to it when he believes he shouldn't? It's also interesting that this is the first conversation to take place in Soho, just after watching Aziraphale realise he's caught feelings for a demon, with the red glow of lust serving as the backdrop).

Do I think the kiss in and of itself was sexual? No. I think it was a passionate and devastating last-ditch effort on Crowley's part to convey the way he feels for Aziraphale. Not just that he loves him, but that he loves him in the most human way possible. But I do think that the kiss represents how they can move forward from here, and what they might want to explore with each other once they feel free enough to do so.

In Conclusion

I am sure, deep in my bones (unless we are explicitly told otherwise), that this was both of their first kisses no, I'm not counting the gavotte, and that neither of them have ever thought to do anything else physical with the humans while they have been on Earth. Like I said before, they adore the human race and lifestyle in general, but ultimately view them as a separate species altogether, and they seem mostly happy to keep to themselves and each other, unless otherwise necessary. I just can't see either of them being drawn enough to a human to pursue anything close to sex. If Crowley in particular has had anything to do with sex in the context of temptations, I'm positive he would be inciting lust amongst the humans themselves, not involving himself directly. At least not that directly.

So, like every other human experience they've had on Earth, sex is something new that they could explore together, just the two of them, on their own side. A deeply intimate, tangible declaration of their love and everything they've gone through to earn it. A visceral finger to give both Heaven and Hell. A renewed appreciation for their corporations and for each other's. A enjoyable method for immortal beings to simply pass the time in each other's company. A new and exciting way to Feel Good, and all the variations that come with it.

You might agree with this post, or you might not. Whether this is something that is ever addressed or not, it doesn't matter to me. This is a brilliant love story either way, and I genuinely feel so privileged to witness it.

But I just can't find it in myself to imagine, given everything we know about these two characters, that sex isn't an experience they would both consume with wholehearted enthusiasm, curiosity, and profound, ineffable adoration.

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Bonus feature: the very silly notes I made to myself that inspired this post

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the-littlest-goblin · 2 months ago

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this started as a reblog comment on this post but it got tangential so it gets own post instead. still, credit and thanks to @utilitycaster for reigniting a brainworm I've been meaning to exorcise for ages, which is: fate as a narrative element of Critical Role.

Cause "fate"/"destiny" is another thing that gets name-dropped a lot where frequently the function is purely poetic, but is also shown to be a metaphysical truth of Exandria even though it's unclear exactly how it works. We can say for certain that Exandrian fate is not predestination. On a meta level that would be antithetical to an improv and dice-rolling format, and it's not a belief we ever hear of in-universe to my recollection.

I spent a lot of college studying Homeric epic, and also writing about fate and predestination as functions of narrative temporality in general. There's two load bearing concepts in Homeric studies that I often find useful references in other literary context, especially as a precedent for epic fantasy like CR vis a vis gods and fate as elements of the worldbuilding. First is that the Greek word for 'fate', moira (μοῖρα), also means 'lot,' 'share,' or 'portion.' "One's lot in life" gives a more accurate impression of the workings of fate in Homer than the connotation of inflexible predestination, as it is often misconstrued. The ultimate and only truly unavoidable moira is death (for mortals, at least). That is the model for the relationship of fate and causality (which, side note, can be surprisingly compatible with existentialism in certain contexts).

Speaking of causality, the other concept is the "double motivation," which is an interpretation of the gods' frequent influence on mortal action that allows divine interference to coexist with free will and character agency. It simply attributes causality and moral responsibility for divinely-influenced actions to both gods and mortals simultaneously (as opposed to other interpretations which seek to deduce a position on one side of a binary between either straight-up divine mind-control or gods as figurative personifications of mortal interiority.)

In the past, I've used double motivation analogously as a frame for literary criticism more broadly, paralleling the divine-mortal duality with an extradiegetic/structural sense of the narrative and the diegetic/internal world of the characters, respectively. It also loosely maps onto when we talk about plot-driven stories vs character-driven stories. My personal metric is that the best works achieve a harmony of double-motivation such that they can't be sorted into the plot- or character-driven dichotomy. The needs of the story and the motivations of the characters are coterminous.

It's worth noting that modern expectations of narrative and standards for what makes a "good" story differ in a lot of ways to ancient modes, especially when it comes to the psychological facet of characters. We hold works to much higher standards in terms of justifying why characters do things, which makes metaphysical destiny a trickier concept to incorporate textually. A lot of modern lit crit (and a lot of fandom discourse, in my experience) only wants to see or consider the character motivation. Some structuralist corners are more hospitable to the narrative motivation, but it depends on who you're talking to really. I digress.

As for how these relate to CR: I see the sense of "destiny" attributed PCs as relating to their narrative function as protagonists. In the same way that death is the ultimate moira for mortals, the inevitable "destiny" of PCs-as-such is that they will be the heroes of a story; the story itself is not preordained—it is loosely planned, but obviously not set in stone. We cannot be sure what actions and events will make up the story, but we can be sure that the PCs will be at the center. This is also just another, more top-down way of phrasing the linked post's point about destiny as a matter of character intent. There's a conceptual link between "destiny" and "agency," counter to the connotation of predestiny.

The format of TTRPGs make them an excellent ground for demonstrating the double-motivation narrative in process because of how visible and integral the diegetic facet of the story is (*don't say Brechtian, do not call it Brechtian*) playing out in real time. And I think out of all the AP shows I've seen, the CR cast most tends to build characters in pursuit of psychological realism. Those pieces in combination make a higher bar for achieving that narrative harmony; the marvel of CR is how often they still manage to accomplish it, and it's extra satisfying because of the challenge at the outset. This is why I find Campaign 2 especially so impressive: even as PC choices warp the path of Matt's anticipated narrative in some big ways, it all still synthesizes into narrative harmony. M9 are not traditional heroic types to start out, and often act counter to the expected archetypes of the genre. Matt responds to their decisions with a degree of flexibility in the plot, resulting in a deeply believable psychological story about M9 developing into heroes—one which still hits the promised elements of heroic fantasy and the necessary beats of Matt's story outline, while being the most sandbox-y out of all the campaigns, complete with serendipitous emergent themes of choice, agency, and identity throughout.

Campaign 3 is the opposite. BH are metatextually "fated" to be the heroes of their narrative the same as M9. Like M9, their actions much of the time don't correlate to the role; unlike c2, the story does not respond to or accommodate the characters. BH may seem to lack a "sense of destiny" as part of their NPC vibes, but they nevertheless retain the moira of being PCs and are stuck as the primary focalizing point of the story, regardless of how they continuously lean on literally anyone else to make decisions. The commentary on being nobodies who fell into this position could have been a gratifying thematic through-line similar to what both c2 and Divergence accomplish in different ways, if only BH had ever developed past the premise of that statement and started acting like PCs. Instead they kind of made the opposite thematic statement: shirking destiny not in a textual way that actually engages with fate as an in-universe concept, but by trying to abdicate the narrative duties of protagonist without ever escaping that positionality. Thus the hand of god—both in the figurative sense of the DM's writerly hand and the in-universe deus ex machinae feeding BH plans of action—is extremely visible as it props them up through the plot. To bring back the Homeric comparison: imagine the Odyssey with all the same plot beats, but Odysseus spends the whole poem talking about how his wife and son are kinda meh and he doesn't really care all that much about returning home. That's c3, to me.

#long post #critrole #cr meta

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raayllum · 4 months ago

Text

Why Callum Made His Choice (7x02)

Or choices, and why I think each of them were a long time coming. The according choices down below:

Defending Runaan

Betraying his brother

Leaving with Rayla

Resigning as High Mage

Let's go, because sections of this have been sitting in my drafts since the season aired because I thought it'd be fun, but now it's been long enough that now there's Dreaded Discourse (???) over the topic; this meta is not mean to be a rebuttal to any version of critique of events, merely an explanation behind Callum's actions/characterization, and why he did like... absolutely everything in the exact manner I'd always thought ahead of time that he would with his reasonings, processing, framing, and actions. Okay? Okay.

Just a warning: this got really long, do not read it in one sitting, there are sections for a reason. Or if you are, grab a snack and a drink first. Stay hydrated.

Okay now we can go.

Why does Callum defend Runaan?

This one is, I think, the simplest to answer in some ways, purely because 3x06 gave us the answer a long time ago.

I hate him. He's the one who took my mother. Looking at him, seeing him... It makes me sad, and angry, and... confused. See that spear? It was her spear, my mom's, and my stepdad put it into his heart. How am I supposed to feel about that? Glad? Happy that we got revenge? Or maybe regretful, and sad, because... Because that was Zym's dad. I feel so sorry that this all happened.

Callum is a deeply relational person. He aligns himself with Rayla in 1x03 because of Ezran and then trusts her because she's willing to lose a hand for his little brother. He does dark magic to save Rayla and free the dragon because he knows she won't leave without it. He forgives and works/trusts Soren in 3x08 because the man helped save his little brother. While Runaan's bow initially throws him, it ultimately does not matter to him because that's Rayla's dad and she loves him, and that's enough for Callum. His extreme relational viewpoint is also why he's so loyal to Ezran and to Rayla, and why crossing/putting either of them at risk (hi Viren, hi Claudia) cause those relationships to continually and rapidly deteriorate without looking back.

Callum has also had practice with Avizandum and Zubeia. As he points out to Ezran:

You forgave Zubeia. Who did you think gave the order for Runaan to kill Dad? But somehow you got past that. You forgave her, because everything was complicated. Humans, dragons, elves. We've all made mistakes. That doesn't mean we have to keep making them.

Callum also cares a lot about fairness. At first, he defends Runaan because he's being blamed, in Callum's eyes, for something he didn't directly do (destroying Katolis). Then they discuss things more directly, and Callum says the above. And while Ezran isn't wrong that killing Harrow would be enough on its own, I think we can clearly see that Ezran's anger and despair at feeling wildly out of control needs somewhere to go. He's not angry at Runaan solely because of the destruction of Katolis, but the destruction of his home is absolutely a contributing factor.

He wanted to kill/destroy Sol Regem in order to let out anger and exert control, but couldn't because the dragon was already dead. He was so focused on forgiving Zubeia and putting his feelings aside regarding Avizandum ("Everything Avizandum did was to protect Xadia" including murdering your mother) that the majority of his anger got channeled at a safer target: the assassin who directly did the deed (because Rayla defected, and Zubeia changed her mind). Who was already dead.

Basically: Callum points out that Ezran is holding Runaan uniquely responsible, and in a way that isn't particularly helpful or in line with Ezran's previous values: "This is exactly the cycle of violence you worked so hard to end." The cycle they both worked to end. If Callum had any complicated feelings about Runaan (as indicated in TTM) or about Zubeia / Avizandum, he worked through them a while ago, and given that Ez had done the same for 2/3, it's not an unreasonable expectation that Ezran would do the same. Harrow was Callum's dad too, after all.

Furthermore, Ezran is so angry that, according to Callum (who in many ways knows Ezran best), he isn't himself right now, either. Punishing Runaan by imprisoning him is not what Harrow would want and only serves to exacerbate Ezran's own worsening mental state and Rayla's to boot.

It's also not like Callum says that what Runaan did was okay, but that the situation was complicated, and Callum has faith that Ezran will do the right thing eventually in letting Runaan go. Literally, Callum just wants the man to not die and for Rayla's family to be together again because they can be. Especially in 7x02. He's not going to let Runaan die (because it'd hurt Rayla) anymore than he'd let Zym (because it'd hurt Ezran).

This is especially true given that the first shows of loyalty Rayla ever displayed towards either of them was 1) turning on her family (father) in order to protect him and Ezran, and 2) offering to fight against her family/people in order to save Harrow when she had literally only known these boys for a few hours, AND Callum's statement from 2x07 of "If we really want to change things, we can't just keep watching while humans and Xadia hurt each other." (More on 2x07 and 7x02 parallels here.)

If Callum (and Ezran) had chosen in 1x03 the way Ez is choosing in 7x02, they never would've left to return Zym to Xadia, period. After all, "why is there any moral confusion at all" about reuniting a family, a parent and child and allowing them to live their lives, when the parent has committed such terrible acts that took your father away from you? Kids shouldn't have to pay for "the choices their father made" (3x02) but "a life for a life"—one dead and one in jail forever while the person who ordered him to never faced any of your ire—is just "justice" after all.

That said, the slightly thornier decision (especially to Callum emotionally), I think, is his choice to betray Ezran as a result of defending Runaan, so let's get into it.

Betraying his brother

While on a certain level betraying Ezran means siding with Rayla, I do think that's a simplification. It's one both Ezran and Rayla tug at ("So you're on Ezran's side now" / "High Mage. We need you at this council meeting") with poor Callum in the middle, but I don't think it's a good reflection of the situation on either end because it's too simple, and both Ez and Rayla's framing/judgements are heavily clouded at first by their emotions.

I think Callum coming to bail Rayla and Runaan out, and offering to help her on the bridge, is far less about choosing sides as it is about Callum's fixer tendencies, which I've discussed before (in Nov 2021, christ it's been a while).

He is very solution oriented, sometimes to the point of obsession (leaping after Ezran in 1x06 and 4x01; forgetting Sol Regem is there in 3x01 in running to Rayla) and his anger most commonly comes out directed at the person he perceives as being an obstacle to Fixing the problem for himself/his friends. This fixer tendency is is also why he's such a caring considerate guy most of the time, manifesting in his desire to nurture and care for those around him, and closely tied to his pursuit of magic (so he can have agency/the ability to help).

He's devoted himself since learning about the coins to giving Rayla back her family, regardless of who that family includes, and regardless of what else is on the line. We see this repeatedly in 5x04 wherein he risks all of their lives to stay at the Great Bookery because once he gets fixated on finding a solution, he does not have an off switch, regardless — just like in 7x02 — of whether Rayla is asking him (never mind directly telling him not to) to help her.

Now, Runaan is trapped again, but it's not at Viren's hand (though Ezran, snapping at Soren to arrest someone despite the crownguard's hesitation, and his focus on security/power, isn't not acting like the former high mage) but his brother's. That's no good. And Rayla is more likely to fumble the bag without his help; this, plus the fact that Callum does agree with Rayla that Runaan deserves to be free, is why he willingly offers aid even before the situation escalates. It is also a parallel to Claudia ("You do anything for family." "It's too much to ask" "It's love" / "You don't have to ask. I would do anything for you") so no, I don't think it's meant to be entirely healthy either, because Callum's intensity often times gets people into more trouble, not less, but I digress.

As for the escalation itself: he can't just let get Rayla and Runaan on the boat, when the crownguard plus Soren and Corvus are actively chasing after them, and neither Rayla nor Runaan know sky/ocean magic or how to wield it, which is the only reason they get successfully away at all. He had to go with them to ensure their escape, for more reason than one.

But as stated: He is always going to pick the thing that gives him a solution to a Problem, and therefore pick the person with the problem that he thinks he can solve. And he tries, with Ezran to be clear, though more on that in a bit.

This fixer tendency is also why he's willing to repeatedly do dark magic, and why he's willing to sacrifice the simple quiet life that he wants if it means his loved ones get to live ("If you love them, Rayla, Ezran, all of them, you'll do anything to save them [...] It's not about you, is it?"). Rayla needed saving in 7x02, she was the one at physical risk, Ezran was not. Rayla was the one with an emotional problem Callum could easily solve (free Runaan = happy Rayla) and Ezran's was not (because it was more complicated).

And this is also why even once Ezran comes in with the Nova Blade in 7x09, presenting another way to defeat Aaravos, Callum is willing to through with doing dark magic even though he no longer needs to in the same manner, because if Ezran kills Aaravos, then:

AARAVOS: Your window is closing, dark mage. Act quickly, or the brave king and Dragon Prince will seal my fate, and set the world on fire. (7x09)

AARAVOS: Very soon, your brother will embrace dark magic to save those he loves. [...] I have seen it written in his eyes. (7x07)

This is also why he picks going to Ezran over trying to save Harrow in 1x03 ("I'm coming, Ezran!"—book 1 novelization), because he had no skills at the time to use to save Harrow, but he could get Ezran out safely.

He will always pick the person he can physically save, who needs saving in that moment, with whatever tools he has at his disposal, in whatever way he thinks is most likely to work. And no one comes above Rayla or Ezran to him. It's that simple.

Callum is also incredibly personal; he is rarely truly politically motivated. Ezran constructing the betrayal as "he betrayed all of Katolis" I can guarantee is not something that heavily factored into Callum's headspace as a concept, but he does frame it as a political betrayal (hence his resignation) rather than a personal one:

I'm sorry, Ezran. I can't be your High Mage anymore. But I'll always be your brother.

Whether that framing is correct is debatable, but given him and Ezran's talk at the end, I do think Callum comes to conceptualize/understand it as both. That said, Callum isn't the first one to disavow their 'brotherly' bond; in some ways, Ezran is, because he says that he needs his High Mage, not his brother. This is an important sticking point in some ways because Ezran and Karim are also being deliberately paralleled, and have been for seasons:

EZRAN: Sometimes it's hard, but when I struggle, I think about the people I love who are counting on me to do the right thing. Not the harsh thing, not the strong thing. The right thing. Do you love your sister, Prince Karim? KARIM: Wha-? I... Of course. She is leading our people down the wrong path, but she will always be my sister. EZRAN: Then you can still choose love. It's not too late. (6x07)

It's also worth noting that Ezran offers Karim and his people—blatant traitors to the crown of Lux Aurea and people who have tried to kill Janai multiple times—the option to "leave, and build your own future far away from here," which is what Runaan was planning to do befor he got arrested. That Ezran "looks into the face and hears the words of those he judges" (7x07) for Aaravos before he gives Runaan the same opportunity.

Furthermore, Karim is someone who completely disavows the personal to only focus on the political. His sister becomes a traitorous queen who he looks at only with contempt, despite stating "I love you sister, I always will"; his baby is not his child, but his heir. Ezran is not acting like himself/Callum's brother, but as his king, and that includes reaffirming/pulling rank ("I have to stop you. I'm sworn to King Ezran" / "Well, King Ezran, how determined are you to stop me?").

But Callum always treats Ezran like his brother, and does try to fix things, on Ezran's side. He goes to him in 7x02 and advocates for setting Runaan free and—as the person who first identifies the cycle in the series (1x02)—if Callum says something is perpetuating the cycle, he's probably 99% right. He is there to understand, accepts Ezran's anger, but also challenges it. It seems like maybe Callum is getting through to him (with Callum and Zym's framing being paralleled like, so incredibly on the nose) but then Runaan and Rayla are caught.

Ezran has the chance to do what Callum considers "the right thing" (and what Ezran does throughout all prior seasons) and let them go. He doesn't. Instead, he moves to arrest Runaan and Rayla and drag them back to the Banther Lodge by force... for what? Would that actually make him feel better? Or is it just giving him the means to feel control after feeling wildly out of control? He doesn't even go down to see Runaan at any point to see him suffer; he just wants to know Runaan is in jail and separated from his family.

Ezran is then also paralleled to Claudia further, specifically when Callum betrayed her by immobilizing her, because she didn't want her prisoner (the egg) to be taken and reunited with its family, either.

CLAUDIA: Callum, what are you doing? CALLUM: The right thing, I hope. I'm sorry Claudia. (1x03)

EZRAN: Callum, what are you doing? CALLUM: The right thing, I hope. (7x02)

Then Ezran threatens to kill him / risk killing him if Callum doesn't move out of the way, in an even more direct Janai-Karim and Soren-Claudia parallel. (Claudia's rage in the finale also lampshades this with Soren attempting it even less tbh, with "Were you really going to go through with it? Kill me, your sister? I could kill you both!"). The background guard lady even looks surprised after Ezran raises his hand, so the threat is more than apparent even to the characters within the setting.

AANYA: My next shot will be more than a warning.

But Ezran decides trying to kill/wrangle back Runaan is not worth killing or possibly his brother, and Callum reaffirms they are brothers and always will be, and leaves it at that.

This shift from political "king and high mage" to "we're brothers" is also directly stated/reaffirmed in their reconciliation scene as being the most important thing: "Because we're brothers." "Brothers," leaving whether Callum will be high mage again up in the air, but his place as Ezran's brother—and Ezran as his—is not. Callum is wiling to betray Ezran on one front, but refuses flat out to entirely relinquish the bond on any other. He hopes he's doing the right thing, and he hopes that even in doing so ("I know it was hard, but it was the right thing. You know that. I know you do") they can reconcile.

EZRAN: Callum. High Mage. We need you at this council meeting. (7x02)

CALLUM: It was okay to be angry, but I couldn't let the bad feelings stick. Because we were going to need each other. Because we're brothers. I still need you, Ezran. I know it's been a hard time, but I really hope— EZRAN: I need you, too. (7x09)

We also do see Callum support Ezran throughout both 7x01 and 7x02 (until he can't/won't)—embracing him (which Ez, in shock, does not return), following his orders to investigate with Corvus, explaining his side to Rayla, attending the entire meeting even after Rayla leaves, though he regrets it. What Callum is doing, therefore, is living in the moral confusion — the complicated nature of their complex lives of hurt and breaking the cycle — that Ezran is refusing to now that he's been set with a new challenge, willing to inflict pain on others because of the pain and loss Runaan had inflicted on him, and Callum knows this.

EZRAN: Violence, loss, pain. More violence. Stop! Stop. I just want to yell stop. But that’s not enough. It won’t work. I think about a positive vision, a faith we can all share, that we might build a future together in hope. A future where we can be safe with each other. But… It’s not that easy or simple. Because people are still hurting and they are still angry. We can’t ignore that, or pretend it will go away. Somehow, we have to hold it all in our hearts at the same time. We have to acknowledge the weight of the pain and loss, but open up our eyes and allow ourselves to hope and maybe forgive and love again.

CALLUM: No, that's not what I'm saying. It's just... It's complicated. (7x02)

CALLUM: The three of us have been through a lot together. We'll get through this too... right? [...] Give Ezran a bit of time to process all this. [...] Ezran will do the right thing. He just needs a bit of time to get there. (7x02).

CALLUM: You forgave Zubeia. Who do you think ordered Runaan to kill Dad? But somehow, you got past that. You forgave her, because everything was complicated.

AARAVOS: Childhood innocence gives way to something complicated. (7x02) / I have seen generations of humans and elves accept the darkness that lurks in all of us beside the light. There is no black or white, only shades of gray. We must all carry complexity. (7x04)

CALLUM: Dear Ezran. A few days ago, I started writing you a letter about how sorry I am that I hurt you, about how sad I am that there's a rift between us, and about how certain I am that somehow we'll find a way to repair things. (7x07)

EZRAN: I'm going to forgive you. I don't know how, but I have to try. (7x09)

So yes, Callum betrays his brother to protect their father's killer — the same way Callum betrayed his friend to reunite the person who ordered the hit with her child; the same way Ezran defended the murderer and explicit murder of his mother — because that killer is person is your best friend's father.

REX IGNEOUS: Or is the Dragon King too busy picking fights with little humans at the border? That was always his favourite sport: stomping on ants and calling himself a conqueror.

EZRAN: Everything Avizandum did was to protect Xadia! (4x08)

So just to sum up, Callum betrays Ezran for 4 main reasons:

If he didn't help Rayla break Runaan out, it was more likely something was going to go wrong (and he was right). If he didn't save her with the ice spell, she and Runaan were going to end up hurt and/or arrested or worse.

Callum is determined to treat her like family (even if Ez is not) and to break the cycle as they were instructed by Harrow, and as Ezran has done himself many times.

Rayla had an emotional and then physical problem that Callum Fixer McGee could fix; Ezran had an emotional problem that he was basically stonewalling Callum on.

Ezran had numerous other people in his corner to rely on (Zym, Aanya, Opeli, Soren, Corvus, Barius, his general guards, etc). Rayla had literally no one but her imprisoned father, all of her former friends and allies (Soren and Corvus) turning on her without question because the boy she was willing to lose a hand for told them to.

Rayla had greater need of Callum in the situation and in the moment, so his loyalty to her won out; if her and Ezran's situations had been reversed, Callum would've picked Ezran in that moment and situation without question, because that who he is. He picks whoever he thinks needs him more—over others, and over his own potentially hurt feelings.

None of this means, however, that Ezran didn't need his brother in S7. So let's talk about:

Why did Callum leave with Rayla?

There's the practical and the emotional ones, I think.

Practical:

As discussed, Rayla and Runaan wouldn't have made it in the boat without him. There is no way anything other than magic would've made it move fast enough to get away, and neither elf is inclined or aware enough of sky or ocean magic to make the boat go that way. Callum literally had to go with them.

If Callum had stayed, he would've likely been arrested himself, putting Rayla in a difficult situation of either sending Runaan off on his own to then bail Callum out, or leaving without him when he was in a bad situation. He wasn't going to do that.

If Ezran had arrested Callum, it also wouldn't have made him much happier or actually fixed anything. Callum might've (as in canon) apologized for hurting him, but Callum wasn't going to take back what he'd done, and this was probably just going to exacerbate Ezran's issues further.

At the time Callum left, Ezran wasn't focused on rebuilding Katolis and had made this plain. He was instead focused on collecting weapons, travelling to Duren and back to do so, and we only see him return to the castle's immediate surroundings when Aaravos shows up.

The emotional ones:

After 2 years of separation, and the only times they are separated usually being when Rayla is the most in danger, yeah, Callum doesn't want to be separated from her. She's his best friend and his life partner, and he and Ez have willingly & happily led far more separate lives for a while now (more on that in the next section). He wants to go with her. Sue him.

Callum believes that Ezran needs time to process his anger. He knew he wasn't able to get through to Ez, and that the betrayal would hurt him. It's not unlikely, then, that Callum thought time and distance would help, and that they could try to mend things later.

Katolis did not factor in (but I'll get to that in a bit).

Callum rarely experiences regret unless it puts the life of someone he loves directly in danger, and rarely questions the validity of his actions, especially when he think someone is wrong. (This is also why he'll never regret using the torture spell on Claudia, for example.)

Callum also knows Rayla and we see that, without him, Rayla would've dropped Runaan off at the Silvergrove and then immediately dipped. He wanted to go with her to emotionally support her and also knew that Rayla would let him vs not letting anyone helping her. Until Rayla is reunited with her family and let back into the Silvergrove, she does not have a support system outside of him; Ezran does.

As for having a good time at the Silvergrove... We see Callum's first day there, whereupon he's mostly focused on what Rayla and her family's situation is going to be. Runaan and Ethari make up for failing Rayla by giving her unconditional support and forgiveness, literally binding their fates to hers for the trial and supporting her when it doesn't go well and they think they'll be banished too. Callum has come all this way to reunite her with her village/family and considers her his family; yes, he's going to join in on the group hug and be happy when he's encouraged to. The next time we see them in the Silvergrove, it's been 2 weeks, and Callum is still a little awkward/nervous, but again, mostly focused on giving the family time to spend together and wanting to be integrated, because well...

CALLUM: Be with you. [Kisses her] Yup, I could do this. Pretty nice life. (7x05)

He wants a life with her; he likely has plans to marry and have children with her. It'd be like if Ezran wanted to have Zym around always and had issues with Zubeia constantly; it wouldn't exactly jive. Secondly, Callum's feelings about Runaan were always something I'd figure he wouldn't deal with directly right away, instead focusing on peace/Rayla, and then it would sneak up on him that it bothered him / was something he had to confront ("I just hoped, if I didn't think about it, maybe it wouldn't be true"). Less than one month passing in-show time with no real issues, especially with an entirely repentant Runaan? Yeah that's completely on brand to not be on screen because it'd only happen later.

In regards to Callum making peace and engaging more happily with Runaan... He's definitely not going to do anything else when 1) Runaan's not provoking him first and 2) in front of Rayla. Callum needing to adjust in the fic cited below (written by me and thosefiveadoraburrs in January 2020) semi-early into his relationship with Runaan is exclusively because Runaan is being a prickly asshole. Barring that, and even with that, the integration going smoothly is pretty easy for Callum at first because he's so focused/driven by his love for Rayla. Period.

"The point is that while I don’t care what you say about me, as I’ve heard far worse from other elves like you, Rayla does and you are still her father and she deserves to have you in her life and to have a good relationship with you. So when she’s not around, you can say whatever you want, even to my face. I don’t care and I don’t plan on rising to it anyway. But when she is around, you keep that shit to yourself, because it’s only going to upset her, and she’s been through more than enough.” [...] "You were so young," Rayla said, "so young, when you lost your family. And even if you’d been older, I don’t think their absence would hurt less, but I’m not surprised you notice it more because of how you had to grow up largely without them." [...] "It’s just… on any side," Callum said, "I can never just move on from what I’ve done, or what people think I’ve done, and I wish they would just let us be , sometimes. Without knowing that people think I should be regretting whatever decisions I’ve made, because they’re wrong. I never regret what they think I do.”

Furthermore, from my pre-S6 fic:

Halfway through [their chess game], though, Ez rubbed at his temples again, and this time Callum asked about it. “You okay?” “Yeah.” Ez frowned as he surveyed the board and then moved his rook. “It’s just Zym. Normally when we’re far away, our emotions don’t blur too much... But because we’re both stressed about the same thing...” “It’s a lot?” Ez nodded, picking up a pawn and then setting it down on the same square, considering. “There is one thing you and Rayla could do to help, maybe.” Callum thought of the Summit that would be a few days’ long trip to Duren and tried not to squirm in his seat. “Oh?” Please not... “Well, we finally got the go ahead for the Summit next week. And the rest of the Pentarchy might take the urgency of hiding the prison more seriously if you and Rayla came along,” Ez said. “Since you’re High Mage, and Rayla’s Xadian. Since we don’t have Zubeia to rely on.” “Yeah.” Callum focused on the board rather than Ezran’s expectant face, waiting for a yes he didn’t want to give. And what excuse could he offer, really? Ez would probably pushback if he just thought they wanted to make a beeline for the Starscraper because of the Nova Blade. Ugh. Two secrets at the same time was the worst. And he wasn’t about to drag Rayla out to Duren just to be a token Xadian when he’d spent that morning trying to convince her that putting her parents above other missions that weren’t hers was actually okay for her to do. “Well, let’s see,” he said, hoping that’d be enough. “Don’t have to rush into anything.”

“He saw the egg and he would’ve still killed both of us!” “You think I don’t know that?” “Then how you can not care?” Ezran cried, voice cracking. His nose was runny, eyes stinging again. He bit something back. He wouldn’t cry. He wouldn’t lose this argument just because he was crying. There was a fire in his chest that couldn’t be doused. “I do care, but I also care—I care more about Rayla,” Callum countered, because of course that’s what he’d fucking say. Ezran turned away from him, rolling his eyes and not in the mood to see Callum gesture at him. “She’s our family, why isn’t that—” [...] “You had Opeli and the rest of the council,” Callum said. “Don’t you get it? We’re all she has, we have to be on her side, she doesn’t have—she loves him. And that's enough for me."

“[About betraying and abandoning Ezran to free Runaan] What’s done can’t be undone. We can’t take it back.” Rayla chanced resting a hand on his shoulder. She had to accept his honesty if she was going to ask the question. “Do you wish you could?” “No.” He finally looked at her. “But I wish it could’ve gone differently, I...” Softening, he took her hand from his shoulder, running his thumb over her knuckles. “You’re family,” he said resolutely. “I won’t forget that, even if Ez has.” [...] “So you think it was the right thing?” she prompted more softly. Callum sighed, angry again—but not at her. “I don’t know if there’s always a right thing to do, anymore,” he muttered, sitting in the spot she’d vacated on the bed. “You just... make the choices you can in the situations you’re in, because the alternatives are so much worse. Other paths that you won’t—that you can’t live with.”

But the big thing, I think, is that in Callum's head... nothing is more important than your closest interpersonal relationships. He's devastated by the loss of Katolis in general, yes—"Katolis was destroyed and that... that is devastating" and his sobbing before Soren finds him—because it was home, even if it was a home he never felt entirely at home in, due to his uncertainty with Harrow and place as a prince. But Callum also cries in 7x01 when he sees the king's tower has collapsed, and thinks he's lost Ezran.

In 1x06, Rayla gives her reason for travelling with the boys, yes, citing:

RAYLA: I could take it any time I want to. CALLUM: Then what's stopping you? RAYLA: Cause it as to come from you. Human princes returning the egg of the Dragon Prince, that's the gesture that matters. That's what could stop the war and change the world.

And it's not good enough for him (hence his angry little face persisting even after she explains) because that's not the reason he wants to hear. He wants to hear that she cares about them. That they're her friends, which is why that's precisely what he says to her on the ice before handing over the egg: "We're lucky to have you as our friend. I do trust you" even before he knows the truth about her binding. He wants the personal. Needs the personal. That's what matters. But that's not what Ezran draws on for any of their interactions. And if it's unfathomable to understand how or why Callum could walk away, then the good news is that said perspective ALSO made it into the fanon s6 fic through Corvus:

Corvus pinched the bridge of his nose. “I can understand why the assassin would want to be free. I understand why Rayla would want him to be, too, and she loves the boys immensely. But I cannot understand Callum’s hand in it, the lengths he’s willing to go to. It is not as though he is the only one who could ever free the man. And Ezran is his brother and his king. His baby brother. [...] His responsiblity. It’s our duty as older siblings. He’s a sorry excuse for an older brother to just walk away like and abandon Ezran like that.”

Because in the "family member picks breaking the cycle even if that means leaving their younger sibling / more emotionally distressed family member behind (often with others to support them): The Show", such as Janai marrying a human + sparing the architect who had every opportunity to think about the pain she'd cause by putting out the soul flame of Yonnis' parent even when Karim thinks she's not focused enough on the destruction of their home; Soren leaving his abusive warmongering father and killing him even if it devastates Claudia; Astrid abandoning her brother/family to warn everyone about Aaravos; Rayla fighting Runaan on the battlements; Viren leaving Claudia on the beach show, surprisingly, there's going to be patterns that Callum and co. will fall into.

If you're interested more in Ezran's side of things, his emotional processing throughout the season / construction of his identity, and how/why he was perpetuating the cycle, you can check out this meta here.

For now, let's finally talk about the final real section of our meta, which is

Why did Callum resign as High Mage?

On the one hand, Callum's resignation shows that he does conceptualize what he's doing as a betrayal, as noted, and as something that would cause a rift, as verbally stated in 7x07. He "knew my leaving would hurt you" just the way that Rayla leaving him did so. He also knew that at this time, to him, it was necessary. He knows that he can't do this and stay on as High Mage. He also knows, at this point, that he doesn't want to be high mage.

Because "that was devastating, but that wasn't Runaan." Because Callum doesn't personally care about Katolis as a kingdom/castle, and quite honestly, he never has. Post-S3, when things would've been politically terse, as shown in Through the Moon, he was willing to leave Ezran in Katolis on one day notice to go have a vacation exploring Xadia.

And it's not the first time he's left Katolis on short notice with zero concern, doing so in 4x03 (whereas Soren goes as Ezran's sworn crownguard, and Ezran hesitates) solely because Ezran is leaving. It happens again in 5x01 when Ez is away with Soren and Corvus on his dragon diplomatic mission, with Callum making the plan to leave for the Great Bookery the night before and leaving very early in the morning, even though he's currently the highest ranking person at court. We see Callum's discomfort at court first hand in his opening scene in 4x01, showing immediate wariness about his position as High Mage and his lack of mind to political matters:

GUARD: High Mage Callum, the King's council is assembling in the throne room. CALLUM: Oh, pfft, you don't need to call me that. I-I know it's my official title but all that high mage stuff is so... stuffy. Just call me my normal name, Prince Callum. Or just, y'know, just regular Callum. [...] Okay, I'm sorry, now I don't remember what you came here to tell me.

After which he immediately delays going to the meeting to check in on his magic book coming in from Xadia, though it hasn't arrived yet. Rayla's arrival causes Callum to oversleep and be MIA for Zubeia's greeting, leaving Ezran to momentarily flounder till Soren steps in, though no one seems surprised or concerned that Callum isn't there, just awkward. He doesn't go with Ezran to deal diplomatically with any of the dragons either, leaving it entirely in Soren and Corvus' hands, and he has no concern over leaving in 6x01 either, while Ezran hides his sadness about all his friends leaving to go elsewhere (Soren and Zym for Zubeia, and Callum and Rayla for the Starscraper). He and Rayla go rogue over Janai's orders as well, leaving Janai to reflect, "I may be queen, but even I don't have the power to stop those two once they set their mind on something," which is such blatant foreshadowing it felt like neon lights were flashing in my face.

We see this thread steadily even from 1x01, whereupon Callum only reaffirms Harrow is the king as a wall up to thinking of himself as his son. Harrow being royalty was a hindrance to Callum being comfortable of thinking about him on an interpersonal level, not a help:

EZRAN: Why don't you just call him Dad? CALLUM: Because he's the king. And I'm his stepson.

which is also why Ezran talking about the burden of kingship with him in 7x02 goes over Callum's head, because Ezran isn't actually focusing on the fact their father is dead; he's focusing on how it forced Ezran to be king, and being king is so the opposite to how Callum operates, it was never going to click.

EZRAN: Our king. Our father. [Takes off his crown] I never asked for this. I wasn't ready to be a king. I'm just a kid.

And one of the reasons I say the opposite is because of everything laid out above, patterns wise, but also because of his Tales of Xadia bio, which states:

I'm beholden to my inner circle, not some silly kingdom.

There are also scenes from Dreamer's Nightmare which help reaffirm this, where Ezran states that "As princes of Katolis, it's our duty to put you all [citizens of the town] first," only for Callum 1-3 pages later argue for the complete opposite, because:

EZRAN: [When Callum wants to wait for their dad / the adults to wake up and solve things for the town] I'm going either way, but I'd really like to have someone come with me. Someone who's good at solving mysteries. CALLUM: Fine, I'll go. But only because I'm your big brother.

EZRAN: The whole town is in danger, Callum! Let me go! CALLUM: No! I have to keep you safe! I promised King Harrow [...] but I keep failing, and I'm just so scared you'll get hurt.

I don't think either of these supplementary materials are necessary though, to get this aspect of his across, given that scenes like this were written well before the latter came out, and Callum's entire Tales of Xadia bio just reaffirmed exactly how I and many others have seen him since S1 came out:

"And Ez doesn’t need my help,” Callum added more cheerfully. “If he needed me, he’d say so.” He said it with so much confidence it took Soren a second to tell if it was a joke or not, but no. The young mage honestly believed it. How was a good question, and the answer would’ve been more so, given everything. Those first few months after the war were crystal clear in Soren’s mind: Ez weathering the political waves alone, wearily drafting peace treaties and legislations while Callum scoured Xadia, searching for Rayla and growing more and more irate every time he returned home empty handed. The way Ezran had single handedly held him together, Callum unable or unwilling to truly confide in anyone but his brother. How Ezran had let Callum hole up with that stupid mirror for hours on end rather than eliciting magical solutions to everyday problems, because at least he was focusing on something other than heartbreak. How many council meetings Callum had skipped or been late to, never operating as acting-king when Ezran was away on diplomatic business. Callum’s temper on his 16th birthday reigning summer storms down on the castle for weeks straight. His lateness to Ezran’s meeting with Zubeia that Soren had stepped in for; the way it had been him and Corvus, not Callum, accompanying the young king to his entreatment of the dragons and Domina Profundis. Ezran’s steady, strong nature, the way he could be so silent and quiet it was easy to forget how young he was sometimes and how much he’d been through, how much he’d missed their friend and father and his childhood. It’s not fair you have to struggle through this alone. “Yeah,” Soren said quietly. “Sure.”

Callum does not care about being crown prince or high mage. He isn't focused on supporting Ezran as king; he's focused on supporting Ezran as Ez, as his brother. Those are separate things from being Harrow's son and Ezran's brother, even if they can overlap. He cares about Katolis on a certain level, yes, but not on a big one; he cares about it because he cares about Ezran. And Ezran asking Callum to stay in the meeting as High Mage was never going to work. If Ezran had asked him to stay as his brother, maybe — but Ezran doesn't.

CALLUM: I'm sorry, Ezran. I can't be your High Mage anymore. But I'll always be your brother.

And in typical Callum fashion, whether he goes back to being high mage remains to be seen, but he does put in the majority of the effort in their actual reconciliation. He approaches Ezran first, he's the one walking over, and the one who speaks first.

CALLUM: Hey. EZRAN: [Uncertainly] Hi. CALLUM: So I've been thinking about this toy banther I had when you were just a baby. I loved it more than anything in the world, and you broke it. EZRAN: And... you're bringing this up now? CALLUM: I was so mad. I said I hated you, and I would hate you forever. And Mom said that it was okay to be angry, but I couldn't let the bad feelings stick. Because we were going to need each other. Because we're brothers. I still need you, Ezran. I know it's been a hard time, but I really hope—

Callum loved that toy more than anything, and Ezran broke it, and he got over it, because he loves Ezran more. He's saying it's okay for Ezran to be angry (x2) and it's okay if Ezran hates him. Just that even if Ezran is, and even if Ezran does, Callum still loves him and needs him and considers him his brother. That he hopes they can reconcile.

And Ezran accepts it—much to Callum's surprise and then relief— because he never needed his high mage. He needed his brother, and that's what Callum still is—what they'll always be.

EZRAN: I need you, too. CALLUM: Brothers. EZRAN: Brothers.

Conclusion

Back when they were both children, Callum and Ezran didn't have anything to put above each other and the immediate proximity of their bond. However, the events in the first 3 seasons change this forever. Callum finds magic and falls in love, and Ezran returns home to be king, and gains Zym and his council as constant supports.

Ezran puts going home to be king above continuing to travel to Xadia. From there, they spend more and more time and seasons apart. This is similar to Soren and Claudia, who have an increasingly fractured bond, but who also know aren't doomed to be miserable because of their separation or betrayal; they forge new friendships, bonds, and sources of laughter. But neither set of siblings ever forget their love for each other, even if they grow and their priorities expand to include other things. For Ezran, Zym and his kingdom are incredibly important to him; for Callum, Rayla and the life they're building together, as well as stopping Ezran (or anyone) from causing permanent unnecessary harm to one another in their little family is also a priority.

None of this is to say that Callum's way of dealing with things is flawless, or that they won't have more conflict again in the future (I'd love it, although I expect there to be more of a focus on Ezran-Zym conflict going forward) but being a little flaky/unreliable in a political sense is just who Callum is, even if he will always come through on the personal manner in the end.

Sibling relationships are complicated, and they can both mutually fail each other and Rayla, and then still come back together in the end. And I'm very glad that they do.

Other fun details:

Callum's letter refers to the dragons as big help, a gentle nod to how Ezran described them in 3x08

Callum confirming that he babysat Ezran regularly growing up, which fits with Callum's tug of war between being a parentified older brother with his own immature / peer adjacent sides

Callum sits closer to Ezran at the council table once he's no longer high mage, whereas before he always sat further apart

Ezran is symbolically embroiled with fire throughout the season (king of ashes, the fire ruby plan, the Nova Blade having the risk of setting the world on fire, the fire in his eyes that are meant to parallel Aaravos' etc). Callum is associated with water, nabbing Rayla's water reflection motif in later episodes, and with greater emphasis on his connection to the ocean arcanum in spell usage and its links in dark magic. The two then meeting in the middle is interesting symbolically, to say the least.

#tdp meta #tdp callum #the dragon prince #tdp #analysis series #analysis #characterization #callum #two pillars #7x02 #multi #arc 2 #if anyone is rude on or about this post ur getting blocked #if u know you're not going to like or agree with it just don't read it #s7 #tdp broyals #predictions achieved

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iamnmbr3 · 5 months ago

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hi! first of all i wanted to say i love your blog, your drarry metas give me lifeee as someone who hasn't read the books/hasn't been in the fandom for too long.

i wanted to ask your opinion on some discourse i've seen lately about draco actually being "unattractive" and people saying he's hot just because he's described as the hegemonic blonde white guy, but that we don't see him having too much traction around girls (as if that dictates whether someone is hot or not but whatever), what do you think?

(i hope this makes sense)

Thank you so much!!! I'm delighted to hear that. And welcome to the fandom! :D

I am fortunate enough not to have seen this discourse yet, but frankly I think that (like most discourse) it sounds dumb and like people trying to pick a fight rather than just curating their own experience. Attractiveness is subjective and since Draco is a book character we don't know exactly what he looks like and have to use our imaginations. So whether or not he is attractive is kind of up to each person.

The reason a lot of people tend to perceive Draco as attractive is 1) because he was played by Tom Felton who a lot of people found attractive, and that influenced how many people imagined/drew/perceived him and 2) because the story is told from Harry's POV and Harry constantly waxes lyrical about his appearance is ways that make it pretty clear that Harry, at least, thinks he's attractive.

Whether or not this is true is hard to know. He's definitely attractive to Harry. He's the only Slytherin Harry doesn't describe in uncomplimentary terms. I think he's decent looking. I don't he's Tom Riddle levels of attractive where heads turn everywhere he goes. But I don't think he's ugly either. (Though I do also really like the idea of him being kinda unnattractive looking to most people except for Harry and Harry just treating it as a given that of course Draco is hot while everyone is like 'um...what?). I think he is exactly Harry's type tho so to Harry he is the pinnacle of attractiveness.

As for Draco not having traction with girls, it seems to be more a lack of interest than a lack of success. Draco's a Malfoy so even if he was incredibly unattractive he'd have no trouble attracting the attention of girls in his pureblood elite circle (at least before he family's fortunes took a turn). So I think it's not that he can't get a girlfriend. It's that he doesn't want to. I mean, in book 6 Harry straight-up is like 'wtf i saw draco sneaking off with two girls?! why would he do that?' and no one suggests that he might be going off with them for some romantic shenanigans which means arguably Draco's disinterest in girls may even be widely known.

In my opinion Draco's not ugly. He's just gay.

#asks #Harry Potter #drarry #Draco Malfoy #hpdm

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olderthannetfic · 5 months ago

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oh MAN, im genuinely at the edge of a mental breakdown whenever the femslash numbers discourse resurfaces, like at this point it just elevates my blood pressure, i dig my nails into my thigh, and i go to one of my trusty fandom friends to complain about other people's complaints. i ship pretty much across the board without preference for gender combo, altho by virtue of my favourite character archetype niches being occupied by men, i end up with comparatively mostly m/m and m/f with only the occasional f/f. almost all of these end up being rarepairs with at least one supporting or minor character that are eclipsed by whatever juggernaut ship the fandom prefers but never compels me. im used to looking into a ship tag and come up with less than 100 works, most of the times it's less than 50. does this annoy me on the odd occasion, be it because i think X/Y is so much more cooler than uh, A/B that the fandom is obsessed with? sure, but i see no reason to rain on people's parade - i just mute tags and mentions and seethe in silence or private DMs. i write for my unpopular rarepairs, i reblog stuff posted in tags and cheer in my own tags, i chat with people who are also into it, and get overjoyed whenever there's a new fic in the AO3 tag (or elsewhere) that I can read. to me, the femslash situation feels very similar - you like the ship between two blorbos, there's enough fan made stuff for them to fit in the shell of a hazelnut, and 80% of the fandom will swoon over the two people who you personally couldn't give two fucks about even if someone paid you. and shoutout to the people who DO make the fan stuff, the art, the fic, the meta, the discord servers, who request and put up prompts in fic exchanges to inspire others... but by god, if the whiners aren't the ones who dominate the conversation, which i wouldn't mind as much if they'd do ANYTHING besides whine. no, they will scream and shout about how the "yaoi empire" needs to be taken down (how about you just move to FFN? Wattpad?), but then it's either obnoxious nitpicky fucks who haven't posted a single fic in their entire miserable life, or it's m/m shippers who are Not Like The Other Fujoshis and got, uh, i dont fuckin know, 30 works for hockey RPF and 10 for two guys from The Terror who canonically interacted like two times under their belt while they mostly blog about the guys from Interview with the Vampire. they want God, everyone's mother and all the slash shippers on Hedy Lamarr's world wide web to prioritise femslash but don't practise as they fucking preach, tear the work of the people who DO indulgently write about gay women, and think they're oppressed because no one will write exactly what they want. the code for AO3 is for free - unionise along with your fellow femslash enthusiasts, beat the drums really loud, open those google docs, and get some shit started! granted, you're unpleasant cunts and will probably go "actually, no boys allowed in here! get your boy cooties away from this forever!!!! if you like men fucking, go back to ao3!" which will inevitably drive people who like f/f as well as m/m away, so you might be doomed to fail but in the words of that adorable little kitten poster: hang in there!

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yingdu-lover · 2 months ago

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(Reads your tags reblogging my post) Oh cool lol

Seriously though, tell me about it! :) What are your thoughts on Link Click getting a happy ending other than wanting it to? What’s your reasoning for it making sense? :)

Hiiiii! it's so nice 🥹 to meet people who root for link click happy ending. ftghvuhjdhhjjk.. anyways. I saw your ask the moment you sent it but I was collecting sources (Tumblr meta/twitter thread) for your easy access. That will be a LOT of reading and I think I missed a few posts. I'll add once I find them (I need to get better at tagging 😭)

This was my first meta. Even though it gets heavier in theory, I think you'll find it interesting! I argued here how Shiguang represents Yin/Yang who can't exist without each other. Either they both die from the same realm or exist together. Separation does not fit them.

Extraordinary thread. You can follow Temps on twitter, they have brilliant and insightful analysis! Also Centofu. They argue how Cheng Xiaoshi is NOT the dead wife. He appears to be but it is lc typical illusion.

(Before pasting other links I want to give you a summary of my theory. So, narratologically speaking, every storytelling (except for absurd tragi-comedy, link click is ofc not an absurd tragi-comedy) has to make a journey from point A to point B, weaving a significant difference along the way. In simpler terms, you can't revert back to point zero. It doesn't make sense. It won't signify anything.

Every tragic tragedy opens with a very happy setting and then things go downhill and that's why the tragedy hits hard. By definition, comedy is a genre that starts with a depressing/sad setting, there are hindrances and then happy ending makes so sense, it becomes satisfactory.

Now, tell me, exactly when link click was happy in the beginning? it has the doomed narrative even before the narrative began. Cheng Xiaoshi, the protagonist died BEFORE the story even began and Lu Guang has been hurting since S1 (or before). We were just not aware of it. Would it really make a justifiable artistic journey if link click begins with Cheng Xiaoshi's death and Lu Guang's pain and then AGAIN ends with Cheng Xiaoshi's death and Lu Guang's acceptance of his death? Huh. It will be an extremely dull move. For a genius story like Link Click, I have a hard time accepting the fact that it will sail in that direction.

Also, Shiguang are heavily paralleled with noodle lesbians (do you know that in real life they are very close male colleagues working in the Haoliners Animation League lmao), Dong Yi/Xu Shanshan, Liu Siwen and his wife story; each and every story tells how sincerity of love transcends the wrath of fate. Also if you tell me, but yk Shiguang are explicitly paralleled with Chen Bin/his wife in S2 ep 12 so they are doomed right?

Well, you remember what Cheng Xiaoshi said while diving into old Chen Bin and proposing his wife going back in time right after Chen Bin's funeral? He said : In another lifetime, I promise that I will never leave you.

Those are Cheng Xiaoshi's words to Lu Guang. Our timeline is basically their next life. Cheng Xiaoshi died and the past world crumbled and destroyed with him, it no longer exists (yes, director haoling li said that parallel timelines don't exist. the moment lu guang dived into a new photo, the reality of the last world stopped existing) so, in a sense, lu guang also doesn't exist in that timeline. It's like...they both died. And now it's their next life trying to be with each other.

Another strong evidence of lc happy ending is The Eye, Yingdu's opening- from lyrics to visual storytelling everything hints at a shiguang happy ending with qiao ling's active intervention. This song has a literal discourse. If you are interested, I'll list the analysis in a separate post.)

Yingdu ep 1 is actually a very hopeful and strong anti-death narrative if I say despite literal horror maiming us in the beginning...it's so good (I think I didn't 😭 complete the review tho)

Ah Shakespeare. As we know that Shakespeare's poet speaker (lg clearly) is attempting to save his beloved fair youth (cxs our precious boy) from the scythe of death and fate. Yingdu stresses on Shakespeare sonnets very much, so this metatexual reading is important if you ask me.

We should leave the fuck out in front of Bilibili and learn how to not give a single fuck about your favourite ship. I suggest watching Bilibili's every Yingdu edit on twitter.

ah, do not forget to read the reblogs for more critical and hopeful discussions

The whole yearning poem of lg genius link clickers deciphered

hahahaha, Temps again.

My analysis on shiguang parallels with Dong Yi/Xu Shanshan story.

I should have saved my noodle lesbians and Liu Siwen post too..ugh anyways I'll add them when I find them

#tumblr asks #link click happy ending #link click theory #shiguang #link click #lu guang #cheng xiaoshi #shiguang daili ren #时光代理人 #yingdu chapter #guangshi

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zekidork · 3 months ago

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I'm a Zeki, and I haven't given up on this story either. Glad to hear from another Zeki who feels the same way. There aren't many Zekis left who are actively participating, only really toxic and persistent Yumes hoping for a different outcome. I doubt Yuuki will return, that would completely undermine Hino's story, which, yes, is inconsistent at times, but not to that extent. Zeki had such significant development throughout the story that there's very little left to explore.

Hey! Glad to hear that we're not all gone, lol. Yeah, it's sad that our zeki fandom has gone quiet. Sometimes I feel like I should be more active on the platform, but I just decided to look instead of participating much. I'm sure other zekis do the same.

I remember a time when zeki fans were still very active, roughly during the vol.2 to vol.4 chapter days, and there was a lot of excitement and disappointment about zeki's development as a couple (like not getting a sex scene, or not getting any clear cut communication from Yuuki, etc). And things shifted at one point. There was a huge discourse over ch.13 (I think), when Zero bit Yuuki all over, and a lot of drama and meta-analysis ensued. But Hino didn't really address any of the fans concerns (not even Yuuki's seed of desire mentioned in vol.1), and I think by the time Ren was born, and when the incestuous relationship between the girls started showing up--I think zekis sort of got discouraged and "gave up". Obviously I can't speak for anyone, but that's kinda what I observed throughout the years--hopefully I'm wrong, and it's just that people forgot or something, haha.

Hino's style of writing is often questionable--definitely not the best out there, but I've come to accept it and try to enjoy it for how it is. She just writes in a way that's very vague, and I completely understand how that gets frustrating for both zeki and yume fans. Heck, I got frustrated for years and also became less active because of it (and because of life in general). But like I said, once I started to read the series with acceptance towards Hino's style, things became much simpler (though I still hold some gripes with the writing, as most of us do).

Honestly though, in the spirit of appreciating what we did get, volume 10 gave zeki a whole lot, and I'm so grateful for that. Even if it's not exactly what we hoped for, I think Hino really took the time to show how far zeki has come as a couple in her own way; with Zero's final chapter really tying everything in their relationship together relatively well. She essentially dedicated a whole volume to him, and zeki's relationship in general, giving us a proper farewell and perfect tie-in to his death scene from vol.1.

As for yume fans; while, some can definitely be toxic (just like some of us have been too), I'm honestly not gonna be mad at them for being excited about Kaname's return to main character status. Like, that's literally what they've been waiting for since the start of the series--for years! I'm hoping Hino uses each chapter to its fullest to give Kaname a proper ending, just like she did for Zero. Whether or not Yuuki's coming back in his life is, well, hard to say at the moment (which is something unique to Hino's writing honestly). But as you said, the chances are low, and I agree. And if she does come back, then the only thing I can do from there is hope that it at least makes sense and ties everything together (actually I hope whatever ending will do this). For now, I guess the best that we can do is enjoy as much as we can while the story still lasts and hope for the best.

Thank you for messaging me! Sorry for the long response, but I guess you gave me the opportunity to reflect on the story and our fandom's evolution (or devolution).

To anyone reading this, have a lovely day!

#zeki #vkm #vampire knight #vampire knight memories #radiant zeki #zero kiryuu #vk #yuuki kuran #fandom

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atopvisenyashill · 17 days ago

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Just thought I’d say I think you’re converting me to evil Bloodraven theory. I’ve honestly always disliked it since I read these books in high school because bran is my favourite and the evil Bloodraven theory (as well as Jojen paste) was almost always paired with night king bran which always made me twitch because people really want the young disabled nine year old to be the ultimate villain (yeah so I have feelings about that) I also just wondered why Bloodraven doesn’t simply just bushwhack bran and his trio straightaway as soon as they get to the cave if he wants to take over the young boy. I’ve always seen Bloodraven as ends justify the means so I always saw him in a “if I have to do horrible shit to prepare this boy for his destiny so be it” but I read some ideas from you about it that sound intriguing so I might be willing to buy into it do you have any detailed posts about it specifically

ya, well first of all, i think you're right the "evil bloodraven" stuff is more "asshole bloodraven" than him having some overreaching nefarious godkilling plot like euron does. very similar to his role in the blackfyre rebellions, i believe bloodraven thinks he is doing brutal things for the "right" reasons and the "right" side but bloodraven is a) delusional, and being misled just as bran is and/or b) about to get very sidetracked by other stuff that's going to put him in opposition to bran. i'm not sure i've ever detailed it exactly though Here Is My Soap Box Rant About Brynden.

I think he's full of shit.

I think his entire introduction being preying on Bran's feelings after Bran is disabled is pretty textbook villain behavior, it's more or less what LF is doing to Sansa! I'm not trying to start groomer discourse or anything but like - come on, if your 8 year old tells you a grown man is hyping him up and saying he can cure his disability, would you not be alarmed? "It's for the greater good" according to WHOM? We only have Brynden's word! We have the word of the COTF who are also concealing things from Bran, see: no one is telling him to stop warging Hodor or explaining any sort of abomination laws/rules. And in fact they directly lie to Bran, while also clearly they have no idea what Bran is even talking about half the time!

this meta i reblogged is a good primer for the ways in which i think bran is being purposefully led down darker paths by bloodraven and the greenseers. yes, bran is responsible for his own decisions as is every other character that does great evil. but his decisions are not made in a vacuum and in fact people are misleading him. i go into it a bit here too and in my bran the time traveling toddler meta but let me paste what's relevent:

there’s also very clear parallel scenes between the show events of ned hearing bran at the tower of joy -> brynden insists that’s not possible -> bran does the impossible and has to book it -> bran accidentally on purpose disables hodor in the past and kills him in the present, and the book events of ned hearing bran’s voice on the wind -> brynden insists that’s not possible -> [THE WINDS OF WINTER GOES HERE] -> probably, according to a few interviews but also it does just kind of track, bran accidentally on purpose disables hodor in the past and kills him in the present. all of that seems to imply that bran’s endgame “test” so to speak will involve him being taken over by the hivemind, in a parallel to what he does to hodor. also, fuck d&d, your honor i rest my case.

Brynden tells Bran that it's impossible to communicate with the past but we see Bran do it on page when Ned hears his voice on the wind + Bran is clearly the being haunting the weirwood trying to get into contact with Theon in ADWD/TWOW. Maybe it's not possible for Brynden and he doesn't know as much as he claims he does! Or maybe it is possible, and like in the show, Brynden just isn't telling him for some reason (bc he's not trustworthy!). either the other greenseers and bloodraven don't know what he's doing to hodor because bran is more powerful than they realize is even possible, in which case brynden is full of shit about being all knowing, or brynden and the greenseers do know what's happening to hodor and they are not stopping bran, or explaining the moral parameters of his powers, because they have an agenda that is fucked up and evil. either way, brynden is full of shit. and the fact that either no one or everyone knows about the hodor mind rape isn't my only evidence for "brynden is misleading bran." the greenseers try to talk to bran-

He even crossed the slender stone bridge that arched over the abyss and discovered more passages and chambers on the far side. One was full of singers, enthroned like Brynden in nests of weirwood roots that wove under and through and around their bodies. Most of them looked dead to him, but as he crossed in front of them their eyes would open and follow the light of his torch, and one of them opened and closed a wrinkled mouth as if he were trying to speak. "Hodor," Bran said to him, and he felt the real Hodor stir down in his pit.

Ominous to me!

Then we get into "they don't even know what Bran is talking about" which I touch on in my linked bran the time traveling toddler meta, pasted here-

"Are you the three-eyed crow?" Bran heard himself say. A three-eyed crow should have three eyes. He has only one, and that one red. Bran could feel the eye staring at him, shining like a pool of blood in the torchlight. Where his other eye should have been, a thin white root grew from an empty socket, down his cheek, and into his neck. "A … crow?" The pale lord's voice was dry. His lips moved slowly, as if they had forgotten how to form words. "Once, aye. Black of garb and black of blood."

Brynden mentions the watch, but doesn't mention the three eyed crow. Everyone simply refers to Brynden as the greenseer, not the three eyed crow, except for Bran himself, who simply assumes Brynden is the three eyed crow (and we know magical assumptions in this series are generally wrong!).

The point is, whenever people are like "well he's cruel but he IS a good guy" i think they are missing some pretty obvious red flags simply because....i have no idea actually lol, because we're all just taking a known liar at his word? Taking the COTF at their word as if they aren't displaying just as many red flags? The point is I think Brynden is full of it. Every Starkling has a dark mentor that tempts them into the metaphorical underworld - Sansa has LF, Jon has Ygritte and Bowen Marsh, Arya has the Faceless Men, and Bran has Brynden. Not to mention the plethora of Bran & Dany parallels, of them being led into all consuming magic by a dark mentor, in both Brynden and Quiathe. None of these dark mentors have the best interest of the child they are leading around at heart. Sansa firmly rejects the pomegranate seeds given to her by LF, as does Jon reject Ygritte and Bowen, and imo both Arya and Bran will reject their own mentors in TWOW and reclaim their true identities. Maybe Brynden's sin is simply not understanding the depth of Bran's powers - if Bran is the Three Eyed Crow as I suspect (which I also go into in the time traveling meta - listen its good meta and it doesn't get the notes it deserves!) I think it will be a case of Brynden not being the actual authority on magic, which is dangerous bc he’s positing himself as such. And if he IS the three eyed crow, the original point remains that what he does to Bran is cruel, and his allowance of Bran’s continued mind rape of Hodor is capital E Evil Behavior.

moving onto bran theories. while evil bloodraven theories tend to lead into other theories, i don't believe in jojen paste even a little bit. bran and dany are very parelleled and dany also drinks a weird drink that opens her mind but it's not made of people now is it? the paste is exactly as they say - its the blood of the weirwood, the blood of the singers who came before. jojen is not being eaten, bran is being eaten - it is literally described up above as the roots weaving "through" their bodies because they are being consumed by the trees! and the night's king stuff seems (to me) more likely to be pointing at Euron, Dany, and Jon if it comes up again, not Bran. I think it's likely the corpse queen and the night's king are potential iterations of the amethyst empress and the bloodstone emperor, rather than a last hero/last greenseer redux. Note it is another Brandon, Brandon the Breaker, that ultimately stops the Night's King, and that it is said the Night's King was a brother to Brandon the Breaker (sus - definitely seems to imply a link between Bran & a brother, either Jon or Rickon, and the Breaker and Night's King). But a broken clock is right twice a day lmao, so I think "bloodraven is doing evil things for bad reasons to bran" IS correct but I think a lot of the discussion around it is very silly, and often it is posited by people who don't like bran, don't care about the themes wrt to bran but rather to bloodaven, don't see bran as integral to the overreaching themes (which is how you get the pervasive and dumb idea that bran will never leave the cave), and in fact don't think bran himself is important, but is rather working in service to jon and dany's stories. well, i think those people are stupid lmao.

and when it comes to "bran is the ultimate villain" i mean - i do think the "ultimate" villain will not be the others but a much more human sort of villain, and the candidates for this "ultimate human villain" are likely Euron, Dany, and Bran. But I also think the "ultimate" villain is one that will be defeated in some form or fashion, whether they are killed or exiled, and it's also likely to be all three of them and not just Bran as The Evil Cripple while literally every other character is working to destroy him. The winds of winter is likely to bring a lot of moral decay from everyone and moral decay from people with such extreme magical abilities is dangerous - but that is equally true of Dany and Euron as it is of Bran.

And Bran as the "ultimate" villain, imo as his Legal Guardian and Lawyer, is just not going to look how those bloodraven fanboy types think it will. A villain Bran would be a Bran that is taken over by the weirwood hivemind and forced to do its bidding, whatever its bidding is. And I don't think Bran's siblings - or Meera, or potentially even Osha - would allow Bran to be assimilated into a hivemind without a lot of commentary on it. Everyone in the show just accepts it - in fact both Meera and Jojen encourage Bran's mind rape of Hodor. Meera is even the one to tell him to possess Hodor and leave him behind to die. No way in fuck Meera would do something like that in book canon, and no way Sansa, Jon, and Arya just shrug and let him be the emotionless Three Eyed Crow. So Bran as the "ultimate" villain would be assimilated, and "saved" somehow by his siblings - either a Lady Stoneheart esque gift of death or his mind being free (or they think it's free, anyway). And I do think we'll get a conflict like that. I've even theorized that Bran's twow arc will end on a cliffhanger, where he lets the hivemind in mostly on accident, and our resolution won't be until ADOS. But as always, I think people are really disingenuous about what it's going to look like and how it's going to be resolved.

tldr i don’t trust bloodraven as far as i can throw him. either he isn’t as smart as he thinks he is, which makes him dangerous, or he is actively allowing the corruption of bran’s morals and mind, which is dangerous AND evil. but i don’t think the associated theories wrt bran are even a little correct bc they’re all written by bloodraven fans and not me, bran’s legal guardian and lawyer, a person who understands bran’s role in the story and cares about HIM over bloodraven’s Cool Villain Schtick.

#stuffjusthappensworld #asks #valyrianscrolls #bloodraven #bran stark #lawyering for bran #i loved this ask i need to talk about bran more

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panharmonium · 1 year ago

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Hi! I love your Naruto thoughts and meta posts with all my heart and I want to ask your thoughts on something that has been on my mind literally since I was 13: what do you think about the relationship between Sasuke and Sakura? I went from being a hardcore shipper when I was a teenager, to being against any romantic relationship in Naruto after finishing the anime when I was in my early twenties. Nowadays I'm very into platonic love and depictions of friendship and I think the anime's obsession with forcing the "romantic interest" curse upon the main female character robbed us of... so much. There are a few wonderful moments in the anime where Sasuke and Sakura acknowledge each other, but because she's always "the girl with the crush", her actions are so often interpret as irrational or selfish by the fandom.

Hi @riemmetric! It's great to talk to you again! Sorry it's taken me so long to answer this; RL has been making demands of me lately and it took me way longer to finish writing this up than I wanted it to (then again, I knew from the minute I read your original ask that my reply was going to get long, so I suppose I should have predicted a delay XD)

It's funny, my sister once asked me to choose between Sasuke or Sakura for an “unpopular opinion” meme, and I ended up doing Sasuke solely because I think the negative fandom opinions about Sakura are so unhinged and divorced from the actual text that I wouldn’t even know where to start. People are entitled to dislike whatever characters they want, obviously, but there are some fandom takes that are, for me, so obviously rooted in bad faith viewings/readings that there’s no urge in me to discuss them. That said, since you asked, I’m happy to go into my own thoughts on this a bit, with the disclaimer for other potential readers that I only write about fandom things for my own personal enjoyment, not as a contribution to The Discourse. If you don’t like Sakura, great! I have no interest in changing your mind. Please consider this a sincere invitation to scroll on by and go enjoy whatever parts of the fandom appeal to you.

In general terms: I love Sasuke and Sakura’s relationship as much as I love all of the relationships in Team 7. If we’re talking about them specifically as a romantic couple, then I probably fall somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, because I do like them together in a post-canon (to be clear: non-Boruto) setting, after time has passed and they’ve continued to develop individually and reconnect with each other, but I also wouldn’t exactly call myself an intense “shipper,” in the sense that I have no interest in pulling things out from the text and incorrectly citing them as evidence that Sasuke has hidden romantic feelings for her during the canon period. He cares about her in the canon period, just like he cares about Naruto and Kakashi. That’s not up for interpretation; it’s the text. But Sasuke during the canon time period does not demonstrate specifically romantic interest in anyone.

[A note before people who might ship Sasuke with Someone Else emerge to rail against this statement - please just scroll past and continue enjoying fandom in whatever way is most fun for you. It is cool to ship whatever fanon thing you want; I think that’s great! But earnestly citing any loving or emotional thing Sasuke does re: various characters in this story (yes, Sakura included) as indicative of specifically romantic love isn’t supported by the text. I know there are always going to be enormous subsets of any fandom who insist that it is, and I'm certainly not going to barge into anyone else's space to complain about that (because other people having fun together is harmless and none of my business), but I'm not obligated to indulge it on my own blog, either.]

Anyway, that said - the reason why I love Sakura and Sasuke’s relationship (from here on out I’ll use “relationship” in a general, non-romantic sense) is precisely because Sakura isn’t just “the girl with the crush.” Sakura has an arc when it comes to Sasuke, and its trajectory moves in the exact opposite direction of “irrational” or “selfish.” She specifically goes from “the girl with the crush” to “the girl who steels herself and tries to put her personal feelings for Sasuke aside for the greater good” to “the girl who knows she can’t put her feelings aside, but who also knows full well that Sasuke doesn’t reciprocate them, and who still wants to save him regardless, because he matters to her as a person and a friend.”

[I'm putting the rest of this under a cut to save everyone's dash, and also to emphasize once again that this is a personal post on my personal blog which I wrote in response to a question from a personal acquaintance, the full content of which no one is obligated to read. I am not sending this post to random strangers and forcing them to look at it. I'm not even putting it in the character tags. I'm typing it up on my own blog and putting it under a cut. If you already know that you don't like Sakura, but you still click the link/read the post and then feel an urge to comment and complain, I am going to copy-paste this disclaimer and remind you that I specifically recommended that you scroll past and go have fun with fandom in your own way. Thanks in advance for responsibly curating your own fandom experience!]

So, from the top:

1. the girl with the crush

Sakura is, obviously, completely obsessed with Sasuke at the beginning of Part 1. She’s also deeply clueless about him and his history (bizarre though it is, the story seems to indicate that she initially doesn’t know what happened with his family, the same way young!Obito is initially clueless about Kakashi’s father). But what I like about Sakura and Sasuke’s Part 1 relationship is how this changes over time.

The critical scene that kicks this off happens right at the beginning of the manga, when she and Sasuke are talking by that bench - she complains about Naruto and blames his behavior on him being all alone/having no family to scold him; and even says she’s jealous that he doesn’t have parents to nag him all the time. This obviously triggers an outburst from Sasuke, who tells her she has no idea what loneliness means and that she “makes him sick”/she’s “annoying” (importantly, the exact same thing Sakura said to Naruto in anger earlier that day), which in turn prompts Sakura to reassess herself and wonder whether she’s been making Naruto feel this terrible all the time, too:

From that point on, it’s a process of her putting little pieces together. She still has a MAJOR crush, and she still acts like a twelve year-old, but as we approach the end of Part I, Sakura actually has a more accurate grasp on Sasuke’s current state of mind than Naruto does. Naruto is initially excited to fight Sasuke on top of the hospital, because he feels like Sasuke’s finally acknowledging him, whereas Sakura is the one who immediately recognizes that something is wrong about this situation. She is also the one who, after this fight, is concerned that Sasuke is really unwell and might do something drastic like run off in pursuit of the power Orochimaru promised him, but when she communicates this to Naruto, he assures her that this would NEVER happen:

(Sakura isn't convinced, though, because she goes to monitor the exit out of the village anyway.)

I’m not criticizing Naruto for his response here. I ADORE hearing him say that Sasuke is too strong to need Orochimaru, with such perfect confidence - I love seeing how much respect and admiration he has for Sasuke underneath all their fighting, because that’s the whole reason he’s always baiting Sasuke and yelling at him and claiming “you're not so great!” He looks up to Sasuke; he wants to be like Sasuke; he thinks Sasuke is awesome! (It’s that Obito @ Kakashi behavior, you know?) But the fact remains that he is clueless about what’s actually going on with Sasuke in Part 1, and he remains clueless(ly optimistic) for a long time.

(Eg, when he catches up to Sasuke during the retrieval arc and Sasuke climbs out of that cursed seal coffin, Naruto waves at him and calls "Come on, let's go!" as if Sasuke has been successfully rescued and is now going to come running home. Even in Part II, when Naruto hears that Sasuke killed Orochimaru, he beams and immediately says, “So he must be on his way back to the Leaf Village!” And everyone else in the room is like, “....,” because they know better. Naruto doesn’t yet fully understand [or doesn't want to accept] the extent to which Sasuke has willingly chosen this path, and it’s not until after Jiraiya’s death/the Pain attack/the Five Kage Summit that Naruto really starts to understand Sasuke more clearly, which is something he himself admits.)

Sakura, in Part 1, has access to more information about Sasuke - she’s there for his first dissociative monologue during the bells test, she’s there for the curse mark’s placement, she’s there for his first violent transformation in the Forest of Death - she is, in fact, the unwitting catalyst for it (“Sakura…who did this to you?”), and her compassion is the reason Sasuke is later able to overcome the curse mark’s influence - so she has a more accurate/complete picture of “how he’s doing,” for lack of a better phrase, whereas Naruto, who doesn’t know about the curse mark in the first place, is still in the dark. This means that Sakura is able to accurately discern that Sasuke is struggling more than Naruto realizes, and specifically to predict that he’s going to run away.

(This dynamic is then interestingly flipped in the back half of Part II, since at any point after the Five Kage Summit, Sakura doesn’t have access to extremely relevant [if currently questionable and unproven] details that would in any other circumstance inform her behavior).

Of course, just because she has more info in Part 1 doesn’t mean she has some kind of miraculous insight into Sasuke’s every thought and feeling. There are parts of her attempt to convince Sasuke to stay in the village that are as clueless as any of Naruto’s assumptions, and they showcase the kind of magical thinking common to childhood - like when she says that if he stayed with her, she could give him happiness, she’d do anything for him, even help him get his revenge - this idea that she herself can do something to make him feel better, that she can love him powerfully enough to defeat his pain - obviously none of that is rooted in realism.

Is this part of her approach irrational and immature and inadvertently self-centered? Of course it is! But it’s no more irrational and immature and inadvertently self-centered than Naruto’s stated plan to drag Sasuke back to the village even if he has to “break every bone in [his] body!”

Hating on Sakura for her Part 1 attempt to convince Sasuke to stay in the village while simultaneously lauding Naruto for his feels like a bad faith misread of what is, to me, pretty clear narrative intention. The story doesn’t at any point intend for us to see her begging him to stay as a selfish or conniving attempt to get something she wants. She’s begging him to stay for the same underlying reason that Naruto is: she cares about him. She thinks he’s making a mistake that will only cause him more pain in the end (she’s right) and she wants to make it so he feels less pain right now (she can’t. But she doesn’t understand that/isn’t able to admit that, and she’s willing to try ANYTHING that might help).

It’s critical that this farewell scene is set in front of that same bench from their first important confrontation - she references that day and how angry he got at her, and this time she tells him that she understands his reaction. She’s learned things and she recognizes how insensitive she was being back then (“I know what happened to your clan, Sasuke”), even though she still can’t fully grasp all the complexities of the situation. She tells him that him blowing up at her back then helped her understand what loneliness actually meant (as opposed to her previous shallow understanding of it), and she challenges him about his choice right now: "So that's it, you're choosing the lonely path?" And when she tells him that she'll be very lonely if he leaves, we're immediately shown a panel of Sasuke thinking of both his friends, with the very clear implication that if he goes through with this, he will be lonely without them, too - that he's still struggling with the idea of leaving them, no matter how hard he tries to pretend:

Sakura at this point knows that Sasuke isn’t interested in her the way she is in him, but she still wants to give him happiness, however fantastical and immature her ideas sound to us (and, I’m sure, to him). “I’ll do anything, even help you get your revenge/we'll have fun every day, and...and you'll be happy! I'll make sure of it!” - of course, it’s completely childish. It’s irrational. It’s ridiculous to think that any of this would ever be effective, but no more ridiculous than Naruto’s belief that he can simply break every bone in Sasuke’s body and keep him in the Leaf by force.

Both Naruto and Sakura are children who have a deeply oversimplified understanding of Sasuke’s situation. They both still think they can fix him themselves. They both think they can save him themselves. They both think they can convince (or force) him to do what they want, what they think is in his best interests. Both of them don’t yet understand that he has to want to come back, if it’s ever going to mean anything. Their attempts to keep him in the village are immature and unrealistic, yes. What they aren’t, however, is selfish, because neither Sakura nor Naruto are doing any of this with the intention of advancing their own interests. They’re only thinking about Sasuke - how to keep Sasuke safe, how to make Sasuke happy - even when neither of them are taking an approach that will actually work.

Naruto and Sakura are children. They’re afraid of losing somebody they care about. Their attempts to prevent that from happening are desperate and messy and ultimately ineffective, but they are also genuinely felt and rooted in a true desire to rescue Sasuke from his pain, which - and this is the single most important thing that should impact our viewing of Part 1 - is something that Sasuke RECOGNIZES. He doesn’t spend that agonizingly long moment bowed over Naruto’s defeated body so we can pretend he doesn’t understand that Naruto was just trying to help him. He doesn’t take the time to murmur, “Sakura…thank you,” before laying her out carefully on a bench, just so we can discount it and pretend that he doesn’t recognize and appreciate her genuine intention to make things better for him, however clumsy that attempt might have been.

2. the greater good

If Stage 1 Sakura is "the girl with the crush," then Stage 2 Sakura is a progression to “the girl who decides to put her feelings for Sasuke aside in order to protect innocent people, including (but certainly not limited to) Naruto.” She’s driven to this decision by interactions with Shikamaru, who all too recently had to grow up fast himself (“We're not kids anymore...we can't allow a war to break out between the Hidden Leaf and the Hidden Cloud because of Sasuke") and Sai, who risks his new friendship with Sakura and Team 7 in order to speak some hard truths and deliver one of my favorite lines in the whole story: “I don’t know what promise Naruto made to you, but it’s really no different than what was done to me. It’s like a curse mark.”

(INCREDIBLE. How can anybody be complaining about a season where Sai gets to say something that goes THIS HARD and Sakura LISTENS and takes DRAMATIC ACTION that actually propels the story forward in a meaningful way - )

[Okay, yeah, brief personal opinion interlude - it is just bonkers wild to me that there are people who complain about Sakura in the Five Kage Summit arc. That entire season is the greatest character arc she ever has. Literally she has never been more interesting and dynamic than in Season 10; it’s the first time she ever gets to be as deep and fascinating as the boys; what is everybody so worked up about? Oh, “she lied to Naruto that one time” - Sasuke joined infant-kidnapping baby-murdering human experimentation machine Orochimaru when he was twelve years old in order to (dare I say it????) selfishly pursue his personal goals and yet, somehow, we are still able to root for him. He abandoned his friends/allies to imprisonment and death (Suigetsu and Jūgo) or outright stabbed them in the chest himself (Karin) in order to (SELFISHLY) get what he wanted, and yet, somehow, we are still able to love him, understand him, and be on his side. Naruto is canonically not upset with Sakura about her lie after receiving context for the situation and I think we can probably take our cues from him without feeling the need to bring her up on war crimes; please calm down]

[Sorry, I just really love most of Season 10 and think it’s one of the best examples of how good this story can be when every single character gets to do something that matters (as opposed to things being all Naruto, all the time) so I get a little bit worked up over people complaining about some of the best writing Sakura ever gets. I don’t understand what certain elements of fandom want from her. People complain about her being “useless” and not doing anything that contributes to the story, but then they complain just as much when she does finally get to act decisively and have just as complex/dynamic an inner world as the boys. She’s “weak” for being unreasonably in love with Sasuke, but when she tries to be “strong” and put her love for him aside and eliminate him in order to protect Naruto and the rest of the world, she’s evil, because she should have been more understanding of his situation (despite the fact that she doesn’t KNOW anything about his situation). But then when she can’t go through with killing him after all because she cares about him too much despite the things he’s done, she’s not "compassionate" or "kind" or "a good friend," she’s “weak” again. Nothing Sakura does in S10 is more wrongheaded or rash than any of the batshit, buckwild things Naruto and Sasuke have done in the past (and will continue to do in the future), but when Naruto and Sasuke have big feelings or take bold action, it makes them interesting characters, whereas Sakura can’t breathe in anyone’s direction without being minutely scrutinized for moral impurities.]

Anyway. Back to a more measured response.

Every single piece of development Sakura has with regard to Sasuke in this season satisfies me so much. Her initial shock and disbelief at hearing that Sasuke had joined the Akatsuki? Good, appropriate. The fact that she starts to acknowledge the reality of what Sasuke’s done sooner than Naruto does? Also extremely appropriate, very in-character for both of them. Her taking Sai’s words to heart and deciding that the promise she asked Naruto to make when they were children is causing him to suffer and she has to relieve him of that burden? Juicy! AND thematically significant (promises!!!! the burden that a promise places on a person, especially when it can't be kept - we've seen that before in this story and we'll see it again). Her anguished pivot from wanting to protect Sasuke to realizing that she has a responsibility to protect the countless innocents who will die because of the war he’s trying to start? HELLO THIS IS INCREDIBLE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. Her knocking out the classmates who agreed to help her so they don’t have to share in her burden (and so the only person Naruto will hate when it’s over is her)? BRUH. Her being so committed and focused on her goal of saving innocents and protecting Naruto (not just from being harmed by Sasuke/the Akatsuki, but by the possibility that Naruto will someday have to hurt Sasuke himself) that she tries to take everything on by herself and walks into a confrontation that she absolutely cannot win?? INCREDIBLE. (Literally the first time I watched this, I said, “Finally!!! It’s Sakura’s turn to go off the rails!” I laughed with my sister about how Kakashi isn’t even mad, because Naruto and Sasuke have been pulling stunts like this for years and Sakura was way overdue for her own meltdown.) And then, after Kakashi intervenes in the fight - Sakura barreling back into the battle when she realizes he’s going to take on the burden of killing Sasuke himself in order to spare her and Naruto the horror - “I can’t let Kakashi-sensei bear this burden!” I love her for that.

And then, of course, in the end - her not being able to do hurt Sasuke after all. Despite committing herself to the act, despite forcing herself to put her feelings for him aside, despite resolving to stop him from starting a war and killing innocent people, she can’t harm him. She cares about him too much. This, too, is thematically significant - think about Itachi’s “you don’t have enough hatred” - she doesn’t have enough hatred to kill someone she cares about, even if it seems like he deserves it, even if would be the right thing to do to protect others. She can’t do it, and Sasuke almost kills her for her compassion.

I love the dynamic this sets up between her and Sasuke, for a few reasons:

1) Personally, I think Sasuke respects Sakura much more for trying to kill him than he would have if she’d just tried to talk him out of his behavior or beg him to come home (a la their original confrontation in Part 1). This is the first significant interaction he’s had with Sakura in years, and the fact that she does something SO contrary to his memory of her is an important demonstration of the fact that she’s not the same girl she used to be. Sasuke spends a lot of time after his defection declaring to his old team “I’ve changed; I’m not that person anymore,” but this is one of the moments where he’s forced to acknowledge that his teammates have changed, too. Time didn’t just stop for them when he left. While he was turning into someone new, so were they. They grew up without him, and his old memories of them can’t encompass the whole picture of who they are now.

(This is a little tangential, but in general, I love the spectrum of reactions that Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi have in this sequence, and the way that all of them are ultimately messages Sasuke needs to hear. Sasuke - who we know textually regrets what he did here, who apologizes to Sakura for it later - for “everything,” in fact - needs Naruto’s aggressively optimistic open-arms policy, yes, needs that potential, that unconditional possibility of return. He also needs Sakura’s refusal to let him hurt her friends and start a war that will kill thousands of people, needs her surprisingly ruthless attempt to take him down; needs just as much her failure to do so, because it shows him that she still loves him too much to kill him even as she condemns him. And he needs Kakashi’s grim line in the sand, needs someone who very possibly won't hesitate like Sakura (despite the horrifying personal cost), someone who will try to reach him but also won't let him escape and become the next generation’s Orochimaru, who won't let him cause untold suffering to untold numbers of people just because a teacher loved him too much to stop him when he had the chance.

(And then even Kakashi chooses not to deliver a killing blow when he has the opportunity -)

(I know that in fandom people are more likely to be all, “oh, Naruto Good, everybody else Bad,” but I don’t think the narrative frames Sakura or Kakashi as “worse” than Naruto in any way. The story goes out of its way to make it clear how desperately they don’t want to hurt Sasuke and how much they care about him. And [this is just my interpretation, so obviously I won’t claim it as fact], I personally think that Sasuke - Sasuke, who, looking back, can see how lost he was then and how tortured he would have been if he’d gone through with many of his plans - would be grateful to Sakura and Kakashi for making an attempt to stop him when he couldn’t stop himself.)

2) On the other side of this, the fact that Sakura wasn’t able to deliver the killing blow means a lot. Sasuke was incapacitated under that bridge; he was completely at her mercy - but she stopped with the kunai an inch from his back. She couldn’t kill him, even though she knew that he was completely willing to kill her (because he'd attempted to Chidori-assassinate her from behind just a few minutes ago). That’s huge! Sasuke is too out of his head right now to process this or understand it, but later, it's going to matter. She stayed her hand. She spared his life. She loved him too much to hurt him, even when he’d given her every reason to take him down. She hesitated, and he almost killed her for it, but her inability to strike him ultimately gave him yet another chance to come home, another chance to get better, another chance to have a life outside of his pain. Despite everything, some part of her still hadn’t really given up on him, and that knowledge will matter later, when he’s finally able to acknowledge it.

The point of all this is to say that I really have no complaints about Sakura and Sasuke’s dynamic in their S10 confrontation. This season is the point where Sakura fully grows past her “girl with a crush” stage and into her “shinobi must make very harsh decisions” adulthood, but it never means that she doesn’t care about the person she’s trying to take down. Her ultimate inability to deliver the killing blow remains a dangling lifeline for her relationship with Sasuke, an open door that Sasuke is able to walk through at the end of the story (literally, in fact, when Sakura opens that portal for him and saves him from Kaguya’s desert prison, and figuratively, too, when Sasuke apologizes to her).

3. she only wants to save you

The last stage in their relationship is what Sakura settles into during the war arc. She started off Part 1 being just a girl with a crush, then tried to harden her heart and put her feelings for Sasuke aside in service of the greater good, but she was unable to actually follow through and kill him, and because of that, what she’s come to accept by the war arc is actually two things: that 1) Sasuke truly is willing to let her die if it furthers his goals, and 2) she wants to save him anyway.

She has no intention of pursuing Sasuke romantically. She knows full well that Sasuke isn’t interested in her. She even knows that Sasuke isn’t really on their side (there’s a great scene where Sai questions Sakura about Sasuke’s return, and she reassures him that everything is fine, and Sai sadly thinks to himself “even I can tell your smile is fake”). She’s well-aware that Sasuke didn’t try to help her when Madara stabbed her. She’s well-aware that he left her to die in the lava pit. She’s also well-aware that none of this is enough to make her stop loving him. He doesn’t have to care about her - she still cares about him. She still wants to help him. She still wants to save him.

This is not hidden, hard-to-parse character development. It’s explicitly articulated on the page:

Sakura’s not trying or wanting to make you hers! She only wants to save you.

I’m not sure if people look at this last confrontation and unquestioningly take Sasuke at his word (as if we haven’t just read 71 volumes/watched 700 episodes showing us how how painfully distorted his thinking is), or if they stop reading/watching before the end of the scene, or if they don’t understand that Sasuke saying something doesn’t make that statement an accurate representation of reality. The entire point of this scene is to show us how deeply mistaken Sasuke is about Sakura (and, by extension, the rest of Team 7). He’s locked into a false pattern of thinking. His single-minded focus on revenge and destruction has blinded him to the unconditional love his friends feel for him; he’s become so accustomed to using others and being used that he can’t understand or accept that someone would care about him without needing a reason, without needing him to love them back, without needing to receive something from him in exchange.

Sakura’s not trying or wanting to make you hers! She only wants to save you.

Sasuke matters to Sakura as more than a love interest. He always has. She does love him romantically, yes, but she doesn’t only love him romantically, and her desire to help him is not and has never been contingent on him returning her feelings, romantically or otherwise. Sasuke isn’t able to acknowledge that in this scene, but that doesn’t mean we’re supposed to just sit back and agree with his warped perspective. Kakashi is the one who’s explicitly positioned as the voice of the narrative here. We, as the audience, are supposed to recognize that Kakashi is the one telling us the truth.

[tangential thing 1: You don’t have to love Sakura's last plea to Sasuke here. It’s not my favorite, either - the best part, other than Kakashi’s speech at the end, is the moment after Kakashi collapses when Sakura’s expression changes from pained uncertainty to pure rage, when she grits her teeth together - when I first saw that, I almost leapt out of my seat like “Oh my god. She’s finally going to let him have it. It’s finally happening - ” I wanted that so badly, and I still think it would have been a more effective writing choice for Sakura’s last words to lean more into her anger at the suffering Sasuke is causing all of them (himself included!) and less into yet another of Kishimoto’s “let me have Sakura articulate what a shame it is that she can’t do as much as Naruto despite the fact that I literally just went through a major reveal sequence in the war to show that she’s caught up to the boys; I can’t make up my mind about whether I want her to progress or not” - it’s extremely frustrating (and it's something he does at the very end of the S10 Team 7 reunion, too, which is the ONLY moment of S10 that falls flat for me). But at the same time, even if there are ways this sequence could be more satisfying, it doesn’t change the fact that her plea to him is not remotely motivated by a desire to be with him romantically and not anything to condemn her for.]

[tangential thing 2: I do like how she remembers that moment when Sasuke says “Thank you.” That panel precedes her saying “If there’s even a tiny corner of your heart that thinks about me…” (which I’m sure is one of the things that people like to criticize about this scene, aka “oh she’s sooooo self-centered” etc), but that particular line of dialogue is preceded by that particular flashback panel for a reason: Sakura knows that Sasuke DOES think about her. He thinks about all of them. Sakura remembers that “thank you,” and it reminds her that despite everything Sasuke has done and said since, despite all evidence to the contrary, she knows in her bones that his expression of gratitude back then was genuine. He cared about her once. He cared about all of them. She’s trying to reach the part of him that still does, if it exists.]

[tangential thing 3: The fact that Kakashi says “she suffers from loving you,” and it triggers Sasuke to remember his own family - thinking about how much he suffered (and still suffers) from loving them - “Perhaps…those are the ties to a failed past” - the idea that it’s not worth it to have bonds if it means you suffer this much…that it’s too difficult, it’s too painful, and if Sakura and the rest of Team 7 were smarter they would just give it up (all Sasuke knows how to do now is sever potential bonds before they can hurt him; so why aren’t Sakura and the rest of his teammates doing that, why can’t they let it go, why are they making this so hard - ) << yeah, he clearly doesn't care about her/them at all.]

4. the shadow of my family

This has all been a really long way to answer the original question, but the short response to “What do you think about the relationship between Sasuke and Sakura?” is “I really care about it,” just like I really care about the relationship between Sasuke and Naruto, just like I really care about the relationship between Sasuke and Kakashi. And I don’t think the story ever asks me to choose between them.

I’m not sure whether it’s the impact of Boruto-era “canon” that gets in the way of other people approaching things this way (I don’t consider sequel material when I evaluate the original story), or if it’s Kishimoto’s frequent disinterest in/disrespect towards female characters, which yes, does sometimes make it harder, or if it's a shipping thing (bane of my existence), or some combination of factors, but for me, taking one member of Team 7 out of the equation hobbles the rest of the story. I can’t read/watch Naruto while hating one of the protagonists and loving the other three. It doesn’t work like that for me. The story wasn’t written that way, and there’s nothing in the text that would cause me to receive it that way.

That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with disliking one of the main foursome (or any character, for that matter) - obviously we're all going to have different preferences, and everyone is free to enjoy or reject whatever parts of a story they want, or to like or dislike whatever characters they want. I know that some people have more fun disregarding canon and doing their own thing, which is fine. My own personal zone of enjoyment comes from receiving the story as closely to how I think it was intended to be read as I can, and personally, when I look at this particular story, what I see is that all the members of Team 7 clearly demonstrate their love for Sasuke in ways that he himself later recognizes and acknowledges. All of them are driven by their desire to save him and their unwillingness to hurt him. All of them make repeated choices to chase after him when he runs away, to trust him when he hasn't exactly earned it, to give him another chance when he doesn't appear to deserve it. ALL of them, not just Naruto, do these things multiple times throughout the story, and Sasuke owes his life (and thus his eventual recovery) to ALL of them, many times over. Kakashi disobeys Hokage-elect Danzō and breaks the law to negotiate for Sasuke's life with a foreign head of state. Sakura and Kakashi both have opportunities to kill Sasuke in the Land of Iron, and they choose to spare him instead. Kakashi stops Sasuke from killing his only friends at two different points in the story, which would have been a mistake Sasuke couldn't have recovered from. Sasuke would have died in Kaguya's desert dimension if Sakura hadn't saved him (Sakura, who knew that Sasuke wasn't even truly on her side yet, who knew he'd abandoned her for dead multiple times already that day). Kaguya's bone bullet would have killed Sasuke too, if Kakashi, with his intention to die in Sasuke's place, hadn't leapt in front of it (Kakashi, who also knew that Sasuke wasn't fully on their side yet, who also knew that Sasuke had abandoned him for dead earlier that day). Sasuke and Naruto would have BOTH died in the Final Valley if Sakura and a severely injured Kakashi hadn't chased after them to heal their injuries.

Remove any one member of Team 7, and Sasuke never makes it home. Without the combined efforts of all three of his teammates, he doesn't survive. That’s the way it should be, thematically, for a story whose first and most foundational premise was the importance of teamwork, and since Sakura was just as essential to that framework as everyone else, I’m just as invested in her relationship with Sasuke as I am in his relationship with everyone else. You can’t remove one leg from a four-legged stool without damaging the integrity of the entire structure, and for me, discounting any single member of Team 7 irreparably damages the integrity of the entire story.

TL;DR: I love all of the Team 7 relationships, including Sakura and Sasuke's, because despite what some segments of fandom seem to believe, the text of the story never gives me any reason not to.

#naruto #meta #replies #anyway that's that! hopefully that is a helpful answer #thank you for the question! i honestly don't think i would have ever gotten around to writing about this if i hadn't been directly asked #i love talking about the stories i enjoy (obviously; we all do; that's why we're here)#but i'm usually ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ about responding to takes that blatantly misread the narrative to justify hating a particular character or ship #mostly because a) it's whatever. as long as people mind their own business and leave me to enjoy myself they can do what they want #and b) some opinions are so divorced from the actual text that they're not worth discussing #like. what's the point of responding to random internet posts saying that sakura was selfishly pursuing sasuke as a lover the entire time #when that is textually and provably not the case?#if you're that committed to experiencing things in direct contradiction to what the narrative is asking of us then just go ahead #is it mildly annoying to me? sure. but so are lots of things and it's better to just let stuff go #like - i initially planned to take this piece of meta all the way up through sakura and sasuke's last scene together #the one where he tells her 'maybe next time' and finally reclaims and redefines itachi's forehead tap (INCREDIBLE. THIS SCENE.)#but ultimately i changed my mind because everything i wrote for that last section was coming out too harsh #i generally prefer to talk about fandom stuff in a chill/friendly approachable way #but i kept thinking about the most obscenely & disrespectfully inaccurate read of that scene i'd ever seen #and i couldn't figure out how to talk about it in a non-scathing way #that scene and the one where naruto gives sasuke's headband back are the ONLY well-written things about the finale of naruto #they are SO perfectly constructed and i can't respond to people slandering either one without feeling an urge to kill #so i just deleted it. partially because again - this is fandom; it's not that serious; people can do what they want #but also because i know i get extra frustrated about people picking over the text and plucking out isolated bits and pieces #to contort into blatantly misinterpreted mutant shapes that 'confirm' whatever pre-existing judgments or ships they had #instead of experiencing the story as a cohesive whole & keeping in mind the greater context of what it's always been trying to communicate #people on this website say 'we all interpret things differently :)' as if it means no one can ever be wrong about what a text is saying #newsflash: not all interpretations of a text are valid. things can't in fact mean whatever you want them to mean.#the ***story*** persists and exists even if the author is dead to you #if you choose to ignore that then that's fine; it's just fandom; who cares. but i'm not going to pretend you're 'analyzing' anything.#(ok now i'm really done. you can see why i deleted this section XD)

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paragonrobits · 1 year ago

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aparently the Disliked ATLA Ship discourse at the moment is not merely arguments about Fire Lady Katara, but people who don't seem to understand her character as much as they think they do believe that the only option for Katara is to either hide from the Fire Nation (??? by what? going HOME?) or rule over it

and the first point is, yes she WOULD want to go home. Keeping her homeland safe and returning home without living in fear of her father never coming home again because of the war; these are things she pretty implicitly wants.

secondly, there seems to be a power trip involved in the idea of her as Fire Lady. Again, this has little connection to canon; as popular as the idea of Katara becoming Fire Lady and being co-ruler of the Fire Nation is, there is no basis in canon for the consort of a Fire Lord having any political power or even being particularly relevant to history. The vast majority of the wives of the Fire Lords aren't even known; they're functionally non-entities who can only be stated to exist because their children had to come from somewhere. They're certainly never given any real importance and there is no indication of them being involved in politics or having any power at all.

It seems the only one with power there is the Fire Lord; unless you're suggested Katara conquer and rule over the Fire Nation as a tyrant (you know, exactly like the people who devastated her homeland and almost wiped out her culture), she's certainly not going to get any political power.

This isn't even getting into the problem of her being a Water Tribeswoman. These particular fans really love to exist in an alternate reality composed entirely of their headcanons on how the Fire Nation operates, as shown by how much they make a lot of meta saying 'oh the Fire Nation isn't REALLY colonizing or rascist despite canonically having massive rallies yelling about how fire is the superior element to triumph over the savage barbarians in other lands or FIRE NATION COLONIES being referenced repeatedly'.

But again, even a small village of otherwise friendly people, upon discovering Katara is from the Water Tribe, IMMEDIATELY turned on her when they found out she wasn't Fire Nation, and their choice of words 'you're not so bad for a waterbender' sounds a LOT like them saying a relatively child-friendly way of saying 'you're a credit to your race'

at worst, Katara would be subject to repeated assassination attempts by Fire Nation nobles that resent someone they consider a barbarian in charge. At best it would still be a profoundly exhausting thing spending the rest of her life far from home, surrounded by racists that hate her, and laboring until her death to help a nation that tried to destroy her people, and almost did.

Power is, as Iroh says, overrated. The glamour of a life of luxury and wealth has no indication of being interesting to Katara (and she may even find the concept repulsive), and would undoubtedly just be miserable.

#queued

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drakesvalley · 1 year ago

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Ramble post about sys//course incoming (but it's mostly a meta post about how we don't care)

With the people coming in from that first post I do want to make it clear that we don't really pay attention to anyone's stance on sys//course. So if you decide to follow keep in mind we interact with people on both sides of the whole thing freely.

We're friends with people who have either opinion/experience, but do get along more with people who keep an open mind to other people's experiences and don't instantly start a flamewar over someone saying they experience/believe x y or z. This goes both ways.

We used to hang out in endo inclusive spaces a lot, fwiw. You'll never see us outright dismissing someone. We did end up mostly leaving system/plural spaces altogether, save for the couple we actually enjoyed hanging out in. Because MAN a lot of them sucked. Ironically the spaces we stayed in also tend to be more nuanced/mixed, even if they're heavily leaning one way or the other!

I wonder if that's just a side effect of getting older? I know a lot of my friends also had the experience of feeling very heavily one way or another as a (younger) teenager, then becoming less and less interested in that.

Idk lol, I guess you could call us an endo supporter but we really don't feel like the discourse applies to us at all anymore. We judge people individually based on how they treat us and others. Not based on where they fall on some argument that's been going in circles for years. Both sides have some points we agree with and some that we don't.

Bottom line. I love my friends and wouldn't be friends with a lot of them if I had adhered to my DNIs from years ago. As long as we're both comfortable with some minor disagreements, we get along great. I'd rather have someone who doesn't think exactly like me, than someone who does but will get angry the instant I dare to bring up a counterpoint.

#[Rain]#not tagging this with the usual #as much as I'm apathetic I'd still like to not swing a bat at the hornets nest #if you really would rather not follow someone who interacts with people on the other side than you #im not stopping you from doing that #we're just very removed from the whole disk horse at this point #BUT ALSO if i catch anyone using this blog to attack others #its on sight #jsyk

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epersonae · 2 years ago

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Tagged by my bestie, sometimes beta, always cheerleader @emi--rose. Rules: Share the first lines of ten of your most recent fanfics and tag ten people. (I'm going to follow her lead and tag one with each fic.)

There’s a flash in Ed’s eyes, jaw working with unexpressed tension. (end up several worlds away) (the missing scenes sequel to for the benefit of all the broken hearts, this chapter is about Ed and Mary.) tagging @knotwerk for the comment today that was TOO LONG FOR AO3, god bless.

It’s one of those rare weeks when they’re not just in the same time zone, not just under the same roof, but under their roof. (for the benefit of all the broken hearts) (my surprisingly long fix-it sequel to the weird and wonderful meta-fiction sort-of-but-not-RPF Water Flowing Underground) tagging @veeagainsttheday for excellent betaing and critical reassurance early on in the project.

Stede loves camping. (BIGFOOT STOLE MY HUSBAND) (idk it's modern AU monsterfucking I GUESS) gotta tag @mxmollusca for this one.

It all started when Stede took Ed to be his plus one at his ex-wife's wedding. (Commit to the Bit) (modern AU where Ed and Stede talk themselves into getting married as a bit; reader I lived this one) tagging @nekosd43 who is not a pirates person, but who was a very good friend to me and Ryn and honestly part of how we originally got to be friends, what with all their excellent taagnus writing.

Thing is, once he gets a break from the routine (wait around, raid, drink, cry, repeat) he doesn't really want to go back. (can't cross the same river twice) (part 3 of "the devil's threeway", a very weird way to get to a reunion fic but I think it works) tagging @chuplayswithfire who kept giving me good ideas for this series.

Later, much later, Stede realizes he can divide his life into two parts, split by that exact moment: when by all rights he should have been dead, gut-stabbed and strung up, and instead the most beautiful man he’d ever seen strolled up to him through fire and smoke and men screaming. (Hungry for love, ready to drown) (me @ me: jfc that's a longass sentence) (Stede POV canon retelling, my very slow love letter to canon. YES the next chapter is on its way, I just finished an editing pass that it very much needed before actual betaing) tagging @red-sky-in-mourning because things they have written or reblogged are DEFINITELY in my project notes.

He has to cut him off. (A secret third thing) (oh look more Stede POV retelling! this time of Water Flowing Underground: I woke up at 3am less than a week after reading WFU with the beginning of this fic.) tagging @gaypiratebrainrot for writing the thing that melted and reformed my brain, and because this fic ended up being the start of a very good friendship.

It turns out there is a second fucking pirate ship trying to board this stupid little Dutch freighter. (Cannonball) (part 2 of devil's threeway, this is the one where Ed gets together with Anne Bonny and Mark Read and also cries a lot) tagging @adreamingofguns, who hasn't written any gay pirates fic, but who has a Special Interests in pirates and contributed to my thoughts about Mark.

It’s not that he prefers the beard, exactly. (nice either way) (the tiny Beard Discourse fic) tagging @blakbonnet for beard discourse reasons.

For Frenchie, that afternoon has the unreal quality of a dream as he sits cross-legged on the deck of The Revenge sewing an addition to Blackbeard’s flag. (what makes me kind) (rest in pieces, this fic) (listen. I had an idea. I had a LOT of ideas. but I kept getting sidetracked. see: everything else on this list. someday? weirder things have happened but idk. if nothing else someday I might just post all the fragments I have written, because some of them I do like very much.) tagging one of my favorite post-S1 longfic writers, @not-nervous-jester. (who has actually finished theirs! two of them!)

#tag games #my writing #my fic #pleasantly surprised to discover that I still like all of these #I always think I haven't written “all that much” for ofmd #which is in comparison with my frankly bonkers output for taz balance #(and I guess in comparison with a few specific prolific folks)#but this is quite a bit of writing for less than a year tbh

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gofancyninjaworld · 1 year ago

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What exactly does meta refer to in your OPM reviews? Sorry Im very new to this envirment

Oh, good question!

"Meta" is my catch-all term for commentary about the stories I'm following (which are at present One-Punch Man, Mob Psycho 100, Versus, Scissor Seven, and Doctor Who). I have split reviews into their own tag 'review' and if I'm talking about fandom, I'll either tag it 'fandom discourse' or 'fandom follies' depending on how misanthropic I'm feeling.

Thanks for asking -- questions like this get me to clarify my thinking.

#asks #and of late my untagged posts have been multiplying... :(

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mareastrorum · 2 years ago

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The Fool and the Soldier: Chapter Commentary

Chapter 7: The Serpent & The Crown

On off weeks, I’ll be posting some commentary on the prior week’s chapter. Since this is a longfic, I expect that it will be helpful for keeping track of stuff, plus I might mention something you missed. Of course, this will include spoilers, so continue with that in mind.

These aren’t meant to be comprehensive! There is so much more going on that I’m not saying. Feel free to ask questions too, either in replies or asks. If it’s too spoilery, I’ll let you know. I’ll add them to the body at the bottom as I receive them.

See the directory for other meta posts.

The Serpent & The Crown

Oh man, this chapter title has layers.

Molly revised this card in chapter 3, after reading a short story in the book Caleb gifted to him during their downtime in Zadash. As noted later in this chapter, the point of the story is not to take the first opportunity as soon as it appears because that may cut off further options. (Molly interpreted it as waiting to see what else he could steal from a mark before making a move. Not wrong, per se, but not exactly what the author intended.) Many of the scenes focus on opportunities and delayed gratification. What can they do or have now? What do they hope will come? Are they willing to wait for the mere chance of something better?

Because that was the focus, I ultimately didn’t include scenes for POVs from Beau or Nott. Beau’s arc wasn’t about that issue, and Nott’s only became that later, when she realized that her family wouldn’t care that she was a goblin then again once she was turned back into a halfling. However, all the rest of the Nein at least brush against those questions at this point in their development, so I felt comfortable with those two taking a back seat.

Of course, this is also the first part of Fjord’s arc, where the Nein learn of Uk’otoa (the serpent) and his offer of the power to rule the sea (the crown). Up until this latest live show, Fjord always seemed to be struggling with this idea of who he is and who he should be. That manifested in different ways throughout C2. Currently, we’re looking at Fjord’s relationship with power generally. He knows he wants it, and he’s not self-aware enough to sort out why, so he’s chasing it out of fear of losing an opportunity, something he’s rarely had in life.

Why are we bothering with that in a story about Lucien trying to murder Molly? Hmmmm…

One More Time

I wanted to touch base with Jester because she left Nicodranas without saying goodbye to Marion in canon, and I felt part of that was because she wasn’t sure she could sneak all the way to the Chateau and back without getting caught. I also wanted to explore the fact that Jester did miss home and considered staying (which was stated in the stream).

Jester’s arc isn’t usually the subject of a lot of discourse or commentary because it closely resembles a coming of age arc. She goes off to explore the world, learns what it’s really like, matures, falls in love, etc. She’s a sheltered kid that only saw people through a particular set of lenses, and traveling with the Nein has given her more perspective.

But does Jester want that? The answer is a resounding “yes,” but that moment was handled much later in canon. She originally left home because she was forced to—there really was no choice involved. Nott offering the hat of disguise gave Jester an option that wouldn’t have come up until the pre-peace-negotiations gala a few dozen episodes later. By that point, Jester had a much stronger relationship with each of the Nein and there was no doubt whether she would continue with them.

In the Origins comic, Jester repeatedly wanted to see more people and explore the city, sneaking out and causing trouble. But she brought things back for her mother. Marion wanted a better life for Jester, but her own fears and limitations kept her from providing that, so she urged Jester to go and provided a ton of money to help.

So this scene provides a little insight into all those factors. Jester wants to grow and experience new things, she wants to help the Nein, and she wants to bring a piece of that home with her. It’s no longer about being unable to go home. She can, and she’ll visit, but unlike a lot of the rest of the Nein, she gets to choose what life she leads really early on in the story.

Master Doolan Tversky, the Archmage of Dysology

Oh, this thread is still going. Yep. There’s a lot I won’t explain in this part, but I can at least go into a few things.

There’s very little canon characterization of Doolan. She’s a gnome, she’s very much obsessed with biological research of magical beasts, she’s willing to drop a lot of money on things she wants, and she’s pretty focused.

But Dysology has a few meanings. It’s criticism or the study of bad science. Given how much the Assembly was involved in politics of the Dwendalian Empire (they aren’t just doing personal projects), I tried to come up with a persona that would be into biology, magic, and politics all in one. The result was a scientist who is decidedly amoral and disregards the rules. Not evil, not good—motivated entirely by research and knowledge. Which is exactly the type of person who would be happy to conduct autopsies on a bunch of blood hunters.

Relatedly, that’s why I chose the bull wasp motif for Doolan as well. Omnivorous animals aren’t evil; they eat. That’s how she views herself and her associates. They aren’t doing bad things, they just do what they’re meant to do. There’s a hierarchy, everyone has a purpose, and Doolan just happens to be at the top.

Good people don’t usually end up in leadership positions in totalitarian regimes.

This scene was originally going to be after the next one, but @fruitzbat gave a good suggestion that fitting it between these two scenes flowed better and provided a starker contrast between the Nein and the Assembly.

Gods

This scene rehashed a conversation between Yasha and Caduceus because it covers topics important to both of their arcs. They’re the most similar with respect to their relationships to their gods, neither of which are big talkers. Even though some of the dialogue is taken straight from canon, I added more to flesh out the discussion.

This happens in a few scenes, and it’s all for the same reason: there are elements of canon that really can’t be skipped over if this story is going to have a coherent plot and satisfying character arcs. When I get to those moments, I try to freshen them up in some way to avoid boring the reader, while also avoiding deviation for its own sake.

We needed some circus kids moments, given that Yasha went off as soon as she woke up after the Iron Shepherds. Yasha and Molly had a very playful dynamic, and she was also the only one who he would cave to easily. If not for her, Molly would have tried to blow off Cree or otherwise avoid that conversation in the Evening Nip. Thus, Yasha is uniquely positioned to prod Molly about his dreams without him staunchly denying everything.

I also absolutely had to bring the peacock back. Yeah, they’re only supposed to be capable of flying short distances, but this is an Exandrian peacock and he’d not going to let Nott leave without him.

Colors

I wanted to check in with Caduceus because actually adjusting to the idea of moving forward without a plan or guidance from the Wildmother wasn’t overnight. He settled into it gradually over the course of this plotline. This scene also gave the generic idea of time passing before the Nein met up with Avantika without revisiting combat or other developments that weren’t as pertinent.

However, I also wanted to nudge the AU plot along. Molly was knocked out the entire time the Iron Shepherds and the Nein moved through the Savalirwood and Shadycreek Run; he never saw the distinct color of the woods. So Molly had no reason to know that he was dreaming of a real place, let alone real people or events. At least, he didn’t until Caduceus mentioned that the trees there were purple and gray.

Caduceus probably would have realized that he was upset about that in particular if not for the seasickness—not that he would have explained anything anyway—but now Molly has information to inform him of what he’s seen. He’s totally not panicking, guys. Just queasy.

I also took inspiration from a canon scene of Caduceus zoning out about whether he'd met a ghost he didn't want to punch. This is one of my favorite C2 animatics for it.

Dream: Cold

The opening rhyme is an Irish children’s song that’s fairly well known in the English-speaking world.

In the United States and western Europe, a lot of the modern discourse on poverty focuses on food insecurity and homelessness (specifically, the lack of shelter, not any other facet) and little else. Notably, those were the only topics that TNEOL bothered with, and both were resolved in passing by introducing Auntie Mama, who handled both of those issues so that Lucien Tavelle only had to deal with the trauma around his family and the dangers of taking jobs for the families. As a result, pretty much none of Tavelle’s characterization was tied to racism against tieflings, how he survived in Shadycreek Run, the trauma that arises out of the desperation of poverty, nor the types of relationships he would have had under those circumstances. That’s just not included. Instead, his flaws are treated either as tragic/traumatic traits arising out of experiences with abuse by his family/Azrahari or as personal moral failings.

That’s such a typical tactic for published stories about minorities that grew up in poverty, and I’m absolutely not going to do that.

The dreams have already included examples of crime, fishing, etc. as means of survival, as well as avoiding threats of slavers, gangs, and fey. This dream addresses extreme weather, sickness, and the lack of family or social units (meaning groups of people that work together out of cultural obligation or some connected identity).

Homeless people die in extreme weather unless they can get to secure, prepared shelter, and in a town like Shadycreek Run, such shelter is not going to be common. People who live in violent, gang-run neighborhoods are rarely charitable with their homes because of the risk that the person they help will take advantage, and further, this is not the modern world with a culture of charitable giving or volunteering. Offering shelter to someone is a substantial risk, and that still requires some sort of agreement between those people. There has to be some conversation and trust. Homeless kids are not likely to ask strangers for a place to sleep because—again, in a town run by violent tribes, two of which run with the slave trade—adults that are likely to say yes are also the most suspect. Thus, homeless kids often die in blizzards.

That said, there are some people willing to provide temporary shelter, especially when they see sad kids shivering in the snow. Thus, the blacksmith allows a small group to take refuge from the cold while he’s there and has an eye on them. (In addition, Lucien keeps watch while the rest sleep.) As implied by his statements and scars, the blacksmith was also a former slave and has little interest in tipping anyone off that the kids are there. The temple to the Raven Queen also accepts the kids once they trudge through the snow to get there. Whether they could have sought such help earlier is anyone’s guess, and it’s entirely possible that they would have been turned away if the situation wasn’t desperate enough yet. On top of that, while cold doesn’t cause illness, enduring extreme cold compromises the immune system and kids get sick. A few that didn’t die to hypothermia still died to illness.

In addition, there’s the issue that the allegiances of the street kids are fickle. Younger, weaker kids don’t have much choice in who they stick with, and older, experienced kids eventually find opportunities to pursue. Thus, the goliath offers to take her two favorites with her to a gang, leaving the little ones and “the problems” behind. Smaller, disorganized groups without strong hierarchies don’t often last, especially when faced with challenges like blizzards.

Life is hard for kids on the streets. There’s kind people that mean well, and most of the time, they aren’t willing or in the position to offer long-term solutions. Unfortunately, when someone grows up with a vivid, consistent experience of scarcity, apathy, and danger, the nice lessons they hear from well-meaning, kind people tend to get warped. Thus, the blacksmith makes a curved sword rather a straight blade or some other tool, and his lesson isn’t about how to help or to seek help, but to endure. He has scars of his own, and he knows that other people cannot be relied upon. Allowing the kids to take up space and providing some advice is the most he’s willing to give.

I’m not writing a story to make privileged people feel like the desperation of the poor isn’t their fault or their problem. Society is to blame for poverty, and every single person has a part in that. There were things that bystanders could have done to save more kids, and they didn’t do it. It’s risky, yeah, and in the end, most people who have something to lose don’t want to take risks to help people they look down upon.

So they don’t.

Memories

Now the story can finally get into the Tombtakers’ interactions with Lucien in detail. We also see what Lucien can do while he’s in someone’s head. Oh boy!

I came up with Jurrell’s game quite a while before this scene as a way of providing retrospection and exposition in the Tombtaker scenes. That provides the reader with some insight into the other Tombtakers’ pasts and how they get along with Lucien. So now there’s multiple options for scenes to show that off. We’ll see a lot more of their backstory over time.

Lucien is a French name IRL, but there is no France or French language in Exandria. However, the French accent tends to be common along the Menagerie Coast. Going off that, I decided I’d interpret that as the Ki’nau language (Naush) and accent since it had not really been tied to a specific place in canon. Then I tried to brainstorm why Lucien would have that name if he grew up in Shadycreek Run. While researching Irish folklore, one of the figures that stood out was Lugh (modern “Lú”). Depending on the cycle (Irish folklore is divided into cycles with repeating/related myths), he was a trickster god, a god of light, a master craftsman, and a jack of all trades. Putting that all together with the earlier decision I’d made that he learned from Seanchaidhe, I came up with this backstory for how Lucien got his name.

When Matt introduced the Tombtakers as a group, Lucien was the only one that didn’t have a last name. In a campaign that was rife with chosen names, I felt that was an intentional choice to suit the character. Thus, my version doesn’t care what his name was. He doesn’t have a family, so as far as he’s concerned, he doesn’t have a family name. Whether he ever had a prior name is anyone’s guess at this point.

Lucien isn’t kind. He’s playful, curious, and willing to go along with things he doesn’t necessarily enjoy—but he also retaliates. So he doesn’t hold back when he has the chance to question Tyffial about something delicate. As for his intentions, that’s for the future.

Without the eyes, Otis doesn’t have darkvision, and I thought it’d be funny to include a watch where they absolutely don’t see trouble coming. It was convenient for a transition in this scene.

Lastly, @grayintogreen correctly commented that these were the “Syphilis Bandits” that the Mighty Nein repeatedly encountered in the Marrow Valley. They lived though!

Avantika

This was a scene that I felt I could not skip, but it was also so boring to include. Eventually, I finally tried drafting it from Avantika’s POV, and it felt so much better than any of the other versions I did. Doing her perspective also gave a decent amount of exposition so that skipping the early conversations with her wasn’t as big of a problem. It turned out to be very efficient for moving the plot along while keeping things interesting, even if there isn’t a lot of extra meat to the scene.

Eyes

Matt had so many eye motifs in the campaign, and I know Fjord and Nott would have been suspicious of Molly every time they came up. It’s such a fun thing to poke at.

Jester breaking the pencils was based on Laura actually breaking a pencil in the stream and joking that Jester had done it. I added it into the scene so that it happened throughout the conversation.

We also get a callback to the fairy tale the card/chapter title was based on. I like nesting stories within stories, so we’re going to see more of this.

Trostenwald

This scene mostly speaks for itself. More insight into Lucien’s abilities, as well as how conscious hosts are while he’s taken over. And some rather disturbing plans for Gustav...

Opportunity

Now that we got past the boring setup, time for Fjord’s perspective! Fjord has terrible insight, and he heavily relied on the others’ opinions to try to sort out what to do.

The story Molly mentions is another one of the three Stories About Snakes by the Brothers Grimm. However, he’s trying to be subtle with Fjord, who’s pretty dense. Their dynamic was so fun.

I also wanted to address that Fjord was definitely interested in Avantika. He was ambivalent about a lot of stuff during this first part of his arc, and it was a later decision in canon to try to sabotage her. I wonder if that will be different now…

Urukayxl

And, of course, a final check in with Molly. I figured he’d help with the snake makeup, but the advantage didn’t roll much better.

However, Jamedi is undead, and Molly is spooked around undead after what happened with Lucien. He’s not going to hesitate to pick a fight, but with Jamedi hiding out and bigger threats, he can’t spend the time to do anything about it. I also wanted to make clear that even though Molly was an anxious character, he channeled that into action. His panic attacks weren’t obvious outwardly, and they usually came after there was nothing left to fight. I took that to mean that he was capable of keeping himself together as long as there was something he could do.

It’s also very specific things that made him panic. He did in Alfield when he triggered the Rite of the Dawn, and then again in the Evening Nip when Cree called him Lucien—it’s when he’s faced with Lucien’s past, which he doesn’t understand and doesn’t want to understand. Danger from combat and social situations generally don’t phase him. However, now he associates undead with Lucien, as well as the dreams (thanks to his conversation with Caduceus). He’s not going to be able to hide it from the Nein forever.

The combat wasn’t important and moved quickly in canon, so I breezed through it too. There’s only a few small changes. First, Caleb didn’t have Invisibility at this point because he’d used the scroll against Lorenzo, but in this story, he saved it and inscribed it into his book in Zadash. Second, Molly looted a necklace that wasn’t from the show. Third, it was Fjord who teleported up with Misty Step to shove the yuan-ti guard, so I had to switch that to Molly. The first two are going to have further ramifications down the road.

#TF&TS #TF&TS meta #chapter commentary

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