#kisame/mei

[mayskalih]

Are they dressing up or down?..

[nardo-headcanons]

i was looking at your naruto headcanons and they are amazing especially the ones about kirigakure!!! i was wondering if you'll have somes about gender dynamics and expectations in kiri. just asking... also i found out you do art as well...NICEEEEEEEE (im canonsinthehead btw...)

Hii! I'm happy to hear you enjoy my ramblings about Kiri and my art!! Makes me feel like I'm not just screaming into the void.

cn: mentions of colorism, sexism and queerphobia

Gender Expectations in Kirigakure

The role of women in Kirigakure

Generally speaking, it used to be rather uncommon for women to become kunoichi. One of the women who did was Ameyuri Ringo, who quickly became an idol to many young girls in her time. The idea of a woman swordsman was ridiculous - yet she fought her way up to the top. The shinobi affilitation was a very men-oriented field and those women who did became fully fledged shinobi were battle hardened and didn't take shit from anyone.

However, it was very common for women to be part of the workforce, since many citizens are on the poorer side, women from higher ranked families being the exception. The most common jobs taken on by women used to be rice and fruit farmers, seamstresses or business (co-)owners.

This has changed, however, once the fifth mizukage, Mei Terumi, rose to power. She encouraged young women and girls to fight for their dreams and become shinobi as well.

Women of the middle and higher classes are expected to take care of themselves, look pretty and be gracious, elegant and soft-spoken. Arranged marriages were nothing uncommon, often leaving the women with no choice in the matter.

Men's role in Kirigakure

Men are expected to be hard workers, providers for the family, but the image of the ideal man does differ from other cultures. Men in Kirigakure are rather comfortable in their femininity and it is not uncommon for men to wear makeup, do skincare and sleep with silken bonnets to take care of their hair. This often leads to Kiri men being seen as effeminate or flamboyant.

The exception to this are Kiri fishermen and sailors, who have adopted a more 'westernized' view of masculinity. Often foul mouthed and abrasive, they have formed their own subculture of 'new masculinity'.

Gender outside of woman and man

It is not uncommon for youngsters and teens in Kirigakure to reject the idea of being either a woman or a man, however it does lead to scrutiny and condemnation of Kirigakure's older population. People assigned female at birth are more often scruitinized than people assigned male at birth.

The beauty ideals in Kirigakure

Fair, pale skin Fair skin is seen as a sign of wealth and beauty in Kirigakure and a very desirable trait to many people. Skin bleaching creams are widely available and there are many problems with colorism in Kirigakure.

Long, luscious hair Another sign of wealth, long, open hair is seen as the beauty ideal because it means not having to work a tedious job where long hair would be seen as tedious.

Brown eyes In a country where people with kekkei genkai were frequently hunted down and killed, it is to be expected that anyone with a rare or unnatural eye color would automatically be seen as a freak, leading to brown eyes being the beauty ideal in Kirigakure.

A plump, well fed looking body This is pretty much self explanatory, as more plump bodies are seen as a sign of being well fed and able to afford leisure time.

That's all, folks!

[canonsinthehead]

Naruto Modern AU/Hollywood pt.2 - Kiri & The All-Star Team

There is a silent hierarchy among all countries and the terrible assumption that bigger countries are better than smaller ones. The large presence and funds of various territories, like the country of fire, wind, earth, and lightning, overwhelms and overshadows small nations, especially in sports where each country dominates certain disciplines.

The land of fire (Konoha): badminton, soccer, gymnastics, and martial arts

The land of lightning (Kumo): Tennis, basketball, and athleticism

The land of earth (Iwa): cross country, marathon, weightlifting, and cycling

But in the last decade, the land of water emerged in the sports scene. It was coming out of years of political conflict that left the country in shambles with record levels of poverty, putting them at the bottom of the economic ladder. Not only was it a smaller nation, but a lot of its endeavors and way of life were unknown to the rest of the world because of the long-lasting reign of violence that controlled the country for decades.

Well, Kiri has been perceived as "these islands far away" with the highest crime rate in the world for the longest but Its newly found peace brought interesting things; industrialization,  a new economy open to the world, the exportation of its products, but specifically the creation of various social classes. This was not the case before, since it was, the government/military vs the rest of the population in poverty.

This modernized economy brought the country a new middle class and other social statuses. It recently started experiencing the concept of celebrities like the rest of the world and most are athletes.

Being surrounded by large bodies of water, any form of water activity has always been intuitive to them. To the point where many accuse them of having a "genetic advantage". Athletes from Kiri/Country of Water can now join world competitions and are killing the game in the water department and making a serious name for their country. They are undefeatable in all forms of swimming kayaking, boat racing, surfing, diving, synchronized/artistic swimming, water polo, etc. Now most of the competitions for these sports are held there.

Kiri is getting recognized overseas for many things, but recently certain people have attained celebrity status for unconventional reasons building a solid international fan base

Mei Terumi, the female president, for her breathtaking beauty

Haku is the new sensation in figure skating. A discipline Kiri started to dominate recently but the young man’s high level of skills made him reach first place in all competitions. His likeability, pure heart, and pretty looks opened many doors for him, he often features in variety shows and commercials. He is also a good friend of the #1 YouTuber/streamer and boxer Naruto Uzumaki and often appears on his channel

Ever since basketball was invented, Kumogakure dominated the sport, but in the past year, the mysterious national basketball team of Kiri has made a name for themselves.

Overnight, a team of 195 cm tall men came out of nowhere and climbed up the world ranking to second place. The team’s name is the Swordsman of the Mist and the current coach is Gengetsu Hozuki It may not seem like it, but many of the members have interesting inheritances and backgrounds.

Kisame Hoshigaki: leader and tallest. Surprisingly decent from a prestigious clan from Kiri. Kisame is an academic genius, who has a diploma in biology from the most prestigious universities in the country of Water but decided to use the basketball scholarship he received instead.

His son Shizuma Hoshigaki is a part-time social media influencer. He is problematic in his own way, but not enough to be canceled yet. Shizuma is not worried because he is a trust fund kid but wishes to outshine his father as a professional swimmer. The jokes write themselves since he barely practices the sport but is among the greatest and fastest the world has to offer (his shark DNA, I guess). He is dating Raiga’s daughter Buntan, and her father is really salty about it

Zabuza Momochi: nobody knows about his background. He is the most muscular. Him and Kisame get the most brand deals and promotions. Zabuza is also one of Haku’s coaches. He took him under his wing under unknown circumstances. He is the first to recognize the boy’s unique talent and aiding him in his journey as an athlete regardless of their differences. Zabuza always had a sweet spot for Haku and considered him like a son. So, he is often absent to prioritize the figure skater’s training.

Kisame knows Zabuza well, they are lifelong friends. The leader lets him get away with missing practices (even if it drives their coach insane). His best friend is a man of a few words, and above all works extremely hard and exercises double their training schedule in his own free time.

Juuzo Biwa: He is the third star player along with Kisame and Zabuza (The Killer Trio). He has no sense of personal space. Ironically, he is the wealthiest because he owns a successful brand of luxury cars coveted by the new high class. He is genuinely funny, and the variety show's favorite.

Raiga: Loudest laugh. Lost a lot of money due to his jewelry addiction. He smokes a pack with the blood of his enemies. The mother of his child is still getting child support payments, and he is bitter, even if they’re legally separated.

Because of His herratic behaviour and anger issues, he is kinda of a self-made outcast. The other members can cooporate as co-workers and teamates but nothing beyond that (Raiga has is own circle of friends). Since Raiga is so unhinged, no matter their coach's efforts, him and Zabuza do not get along.

Hassaku Onomichi: professional dunker. He befriended a lot of Kumo basketball players. He often gets caught up in beefs with anyone.

The popularity of the basketball team has offered them fans all across the world for their incredible talent, pleasant chemistry, unique sense of humor, and good looks to the point where tabloids from Konoha have launched a misinformation campaign to stain their image and effort to defend their basketball teams after getting constantly crushed by those "foreigners".

The last match of the International Basketball League’s series opposing The Swordmen of the Mist from Kiri against The Lightnings from Kumo was the most anticipated and heated match ever organized. Taking place in Konoha, it made record engagement and attendance. For the first time in history, Kumo lost the finale to first timers. The news traveled all across the world and, certified Kiri’s team's celebrity status since they won.

With their success, many shady investors like Gato started to take interest in basketball as a means of proposing Kiri overseas and for other shady dealings. The weight of all those rumors pushed many fans who knew Gato’s involvement in Haku’s career to beg him to change his manager/owner ASAP.

PART 1 next part

[crueltupperware]

here's some roughs from a failed valentines thing I was working on ^^`

[thekingwhereitallends]

thanks for the Gengetsu one you did

I'm wondering if you interested making a Kirigakure timeline from the beginning with Genjutsu other kages and other stuff what happened in Kirigakure years and dates

Okay, let's see what we got here.

*BN= Before Birth of Naruto | AN= After Birth of Naruto*

50 BN= Byakuren establishes kirigakure

49-34 BN= Gengetsu becomes Second Mizukage after Byakuren'a death sometime after the first kage summit

33-32 BN= Gengetsu and Mu kill each other in a death match, Third Mizukage's reign begins

10-5 BN= Yagura Karatachi becomes the fourth mizukage and starts bloody mist era

4 BN= Zabuza kills his peers in academy in order to be promoted to Genin-rank

1 BN= Yagura seals Isobu inside himself after Rin's sacrifice | Duy killd four of seven swordsmen of mist including Jinin Akebino and Kushinaru Kuriarare and Jinpachi Munashi | Ao attains a byakugan in Third Ninja World War

00= Obito starts mindcontrolling Yagura

02 AN= Zabuza finds Homeless Haku

03 AN= Zabuza fails assassination attempt

04-06 AN= Kisame Hoshigaki kills Fuguki Suikazan and joins Akatsuki

07 AN= Kisame is partnered with Itachi in Akatsuki

10 AN= Mangetsu Hozuki dies, Orochimaru kidnaps Suigetsu

12 AN= Yagura dies after going insane due to effects of Obito's genjutsu, Mei becomes Fifth Mizukage

17 AN= Kisame commits Suicide

20-30 AN= Chojuro becomes the Fifth Mizukage sometime before Boruto: Gaiden

[wipbigbang]

Round 2 Of Artists Claims For The Regular WIPBB Are Open! Round 2 lasts until July 31st! You may claim 3 fics this round!

These are some of the fics open for claiming...

Naruto #078 Title: My Father's Temper Pairing/Characters: Sakura/Shikamaru, Madara/Tobirama Rating: Explicit | E Warnings/Tags: Graphic Violence Stillborn child, swapping babies without consent, death of an OC child, teenagers kissing Summary: Just before Sakura turned twelve, something happened that changed her life. However, she didn’t know just how much yet. And she certainly didn’t know that in time she would help change the future for the whole world. Because, finding that she had the Sharingan was not nearly as bad as figuring out just who her father was.

#079 Title: A season for change - Iruka's experience Pairing/Characters: Hatake Kakashi/Umino Iruka, Hatake Kakashi & Umino Iruka, Namikaze Minato & Uzumaki Kushina & Uzumaki Naruto, Umino Iruka & Uzumaki Naruto, Rookie Nine & Umino Iruka. Also has other characters in minor roles Rating: General | G Warnings/Tags: No Warnings apply No warnings but this is a royalty AU so someone doesn't have to be a Naruto fan to draw this... Summary: To his surprise, Iruka becomes the tutor for the Uzumaki royal family and a number of other students. Life is great! He has a great job, eager students, a lovely place to live, and all the palace staff are so friendly and welcoming! And it doesn’t hurt that a certain royal guard has caught his eye. But when it turns out Kakashi isn’t who he says he was, what’s Iruka to do about that?

#080 Title: Of Monsters and Family Pairing/Characters: slow burn Hoshigaki Kisame/Momochi Zabuza, Background Terumii Mei/Hoozuki Mangetsu, focus on Found Family Kisame & Juugo & Karin & Kimimaro Rating: Mature | M Warnings/Tags: Graphic Violence Alternate Universe: Canon Divergence! All the Naruto staples: child soldiers, trained killers, blood and violence etc. Kiri/Mist focused so also: That Graduation (murder) Exam, politics, mind control, wanton cruelty, and broken, fucked up (young) adults trying to "mentor" fucked up, traumatized kids. Orochimaru is his especially creepy early canon self. Summary: AO3 starter Summary: What makes someone a monster? Is it appearance, urges, or reputation that earn the labeling of others? Or is it the actions and choices one makes?

And can a monster ever become something else? Can new choices ever wash away the stain of blood?

Meeting a young boy with a monstrous visage in the middle of a destroyed village sets Kisame on the path to looking for the answers to those questions. And more.

Maybe the outcast men and woman that Bloody Mist tried to shape into monsters and demons can band together and raise a new, better Kiri out of out of the bloody ocean of its past.

Nitty-gritty spoilerific summary: Kisame falls ass backwards into a found family with first Juugo, then Karin and Kimimaro, and finally a relationship with Zabuza. He ends up joining the revolution Mei is heading, but things don't go to plan and he gets dragged into politics while officially a missing-nin (but preparing for a second go at taking over Kiri). The politics feature Orochimaru and Konoha. Also Juugo is a sweetheart, Karin is a tiny menace, and Kimimaro is handling his trauma slightly better than in canon. (and Haku is in the background being an unrepentant meddling matchmaker)

#081 Title: Out of the Mist, Into the Forest Pairing/Characters: Hoshigaki Kisame/Morino Ibiki Rating: Explicit | E Warnings/Tags: Graphic Violence, Non-con/Rape Alternate Universe: Alpha/Beta/Omega Dynamics (non-traditional), explicit sex, attempted rape, attempted brainwashing/conditioning, mating/in heat, mpreg (technically?), everybody has both sets of genitals/reproductive organs in this fic, enemies to lovers, no rape/non-con between listed pairing, full consent, kink negotiation Summary: AO3 summary: In the middle of a mission in Fire Country, Kisame not only discovers he's an omega, but that he's going into heat. Worse, the enemy alpha smells so good. This leads to some very unpleasant discoveries about Kiri, his master, and his own upbringing. It's a very bad week.

After receiving a very disturbing note from the Kiri mole feeding Konoha information, Ibiki leads a capture mission only to end up faced with the Monster of Kiri as an omega in first heat. Worse, the enemy omega smells irresistible triggering his rut, and things only get more complicated from there. It's a very bad week.

Finally getting to indulge in their now desperate heat-rut-fuelled desire at the end of the bad week makes everything worth it, right?

(Eventual happy ending)

Quick and dirty (pun intended) spoilery Summary: Kisame is an omega, goes into heat on a mission where he's opposed by Ibiki's squad. Ibiki is an alpha and the attraction between them is instant and intense. But they're enemies so they fight anyway and all but them and one member of their squads (Miru) is killed in the fight. Ibiki is captured and there is sexual tension on the trip back to Kiri. Kisame is having doubts because he just found out Suikazan is a traitor.

Suikazan is also a VERY BAD MAN who's been planning on forcing Kisame to become what amounts to breeding stock. Kisame resists, and kills him, and then things go from bad to worse because somebody else is controlling the Mizukage. Short version: Kisame and Miru decide to defect to Konoha and flee Kiri with Ibiki. Much sex is had on the way.

But at Konoha, Danzou is a scheming bastard and needs to be dealt with. But spoiler: he is indeed dealt with. Epilogue is years later with Kisame happily integrated into Konoha and a Most People Live ending.

#082 Title: An Echo of Things to Come Pairing/Characters: Sakura/Itachi Rating: Explicit | E Warnings/Tags: Graphic Violence, Chooses not to use Warnings, Temporary Character Death, sort of underage except they are 28 and 33, Summary: Sasuke dies, and that is unacceptable to Itachi. He falls back on a plan that he never thought he would need to try, but in his grief he fails to notice that someone is following him. In her grief, Sakura does not stop to think, she just acts. And that has far-reaching consequences. Far into the past.

The list of remaining fics and the link to sign up are below!

[soleberlandieri]

[tgirlhawkins]

Which Kirigakure nin has the best boobies?? Vote now on your phone!

Pictures under the cut for fair voting.

Kisame:

Zabuza:

Mei:

Suigetsu (note that this is a picture of 17 year old suigetsu because there are no shirtless pictures of his boruto form--im sorry)

Utakata:

Shizuma:

[x-authorship-x]

Ao: *Tries to fight Shisui one (1) time*

Mei, Kisame, Zabuza, Chojuro, Utakata: *In front of Shisui ready to maim and kill for him*

Shisui: *Could very well fight Ao on his own but finds the situation highly amusing and wants to see where it'll go*

Ao: let me at him! I can take him!

Mei, Kisame, Zabuza, Chojuro, Utakaka:

Ao: take him out, I mean!

Shisui: you're not making it better 🤡

[reposhillo]

It may be a 3 am thought that's stuck with me, even know but hear me out. Mei Terumi and Kisame Hoshigaki are both from the Mist. They existed close to the same time. Kisame is literally equated to a shark wherever he goes.

And Mei, spits lava.

And they were young once.

They were literally lava girl and shark boy.

[narutoversevacation]

For more information check out our event page!

To sign up fill out the Google form at: https://forms.gle/X2kSuT946UgVrZFh9

Sign-ups conclude on 20 October 2023 at 11:59 pm PST (-7:00UHC)

Late entries may be considered on a case-by-case basis.

[nardo-headcanons]

Hello!

I'm currently planning out a fic centering around an oc from kiri, and I was wondering if you could expand a little on the scenery of kiri? Maybe just idea's of how kirigakure looks on the inside, specific buildings that could be of importance inside the village, ect if thats alright with you.

omg a request fjsanag

Hi there nonnie! Of course I can do that! I love talking about the scenery of different places in Naruto and Kiri is one of my favorite places to explore! I'm also currently planning on posting about holidays and festive occasions in the big ninja villages, where Kiri is included as well. So make sure to stick around ;)

This is the third expansion of my current Kirigakure Worldbuilding Headcanons, which can be found here and here.

Kirigakure Worldbuilding III - The Scenery of Kirigakure

Rice fields around Kirigakure

As previously established, rice is an important part in the local eating pyramid of Kirigakure. The population of the water country is very small and lives rather centralized, most water people are Kirigakure citizens. The few ones that aren't usually are rice farmers or fishermen.

Directly around the village

As we know, the village of Kirigakure itself is surrounded by mountains. However, there are also depictions of Kiri being a coastal city. This made me come to the conclusion that the landscape around Kiri probably looks similar to the coastline of vietnam.

Inside the village

Unfortunately, I haven't found any pictures resemmbling Kirigakure architecture. I even tried dabbling my toes into AI image generation, but the results were very bland and unsatisfying. Since the only canonical depiction of Kirigakure as a whole is the image below, we have a to use a little more imagination here. However, I got a little more inspiritation from imagines of the Kirigakure minecraft building project.

Buildings in Kirigakure

Kirigakure is criss crossed by rivers, so the urban planners of Kiri had to maneuver around that. Unlike Iwagakure, who can just erect buildings out of nothing due to their earth chakra affinity, Kirigakure's builds are carefully planned and constructed and involve a lot of bureaucracy.

The architecture of Kirigakure is compromised of large, cylindrical buildings which have vegetation growing on their roofs. This is a fantastic way to emulate the shape of the mountains surrounding the village, which makes it hard to spot, all hidden in the thick wades of fog. The residence of the mizukage is the widest and overall largest building of them all. It serves as both the home and the office of the mizukage, the Oi nin headquarters are also located in the same building.

Other important buildings of Kirigakure include the Kiri hospital, the Kiri academy and the Kiri waste management facility.

The Kiri hospital

As previously established, Kirigakure offers free healthcare for everybody, even lower castes. The kiri hospital is a tall, sky-scaper- like building which looks similar to the other buildings. Medic ninja are trained here, however their pay is very sparse. They are provided with housing and basic food rations and their salary is just enough to be able to afford eating out once a month. Members of lower castes often have to wait long waiting times to finally get an appointment with the only way of cutting it short being a 'voluntary' member of Kirigakure's experimental treatment program, where, as the name implies, experimental drugs and other therapies are tested.

The Kiri academy

As opposed to other villages, genin, chunin, jonin and anbu are all trained in the same building, which is the Kirigakure academy. Since the government has enrolled policies to encourage its citizens to eat and drink healthy, genin are handed out sauerkraut juice and lunch boxes for free, others are expected to pay.

The Kiri waste management facility

Kirigakure is a very clean village with a nationwide reclycling system. Inside the waste management facility, reusables are autoclaved and redelivered to the businesses that need them. Biodegragable waste is sorted by its biodegradation speed and then composted or used to produce natural gas. Due to its advances in scientific research, Kiri scientists have developed microorganisms that can slowly degrade many organic materials, including plastic. This is a highly controlled process, which is why the Kiri waste management facility is almost as well locked and protected as the Oi nin headquarters.

The Kiri waste management facility and the Kiri hospital both also serve as Kirigakure's main research facilities where biochemical, medical and general scientific research are conducted. Its advantages in research paired with the authoritarian nature of the goverment have proven to be an advantage in the face of catastrophes, such as endemic outbreaks of pathogens or natural desasters.

Aside from these buildings, there are other buildings important to the Kiri infrastructure, such as a thermal power plant on the outskirts of the village.

Other important places in Kirigakure

Big restaurants are a rarity in Kirigakure since most people can't really afford to eat out. Most of the time it's a small family owned business with a specialization in one dish or two. Cultural sites aren't found often either, since many ethnicities and cultures have been wiped out due to the ongoing political unrest in Kirigakure. The only remnants of clan culture in Kirigakure come from high ranking castes, such as the Hozuki and the Hoshigaki clan. The remaining places where people can meet up are Kiri's luscious parks and the public bathhouse. It is a place to meet and talk with all your friends, as Kiri bathhouses are traditionally unisex.

Dear anon, I really hope this is what you were looking for when making your request. As I said, finding fitting pictures really wasn't easy. If you have any more questions, feel free to make another request!

That's all, folks!

[naruto-shipping-confessions]

[naruto-general-opinions]

A music group. *coughs*

[wipbigbang]

Round 3 of the Regular WIPBB art claims is live! You may claim as many fics as you want, just fill out a separate form for each and give each claim a different username.

Art claims for this round will be open until August 7th!

This is just one of the stories still available for claiming...

Naruto #080 Title: Of Monsters and Family Pairing/Characters: slow burn Hoshigaki Kisame/Momochi Zabuza, Background Terumii Mei/Hoozuki Mangetsu, focus on Found Family Kisame & Juugo & Karin & Kimimaro Rating: Mature | M Warnings/Tags: Graphic Violence Alternate Universe: Canon Divergence! All the Naruto staples: child soldiers, trained killers, blood and violence etc. Kiri/Mist focused so also: That Graduation (murder) Exam, politics, mind control, wanton cruelty, and broken, fucked up (young) adults trying to "mentor" fucked up, traumatized kids. Orochimaru is his especially creepy early canon self. Summary: AO3 starter Summary: What makes someone a monster? Is it appearance, urges, or reputation that earn the labeling of others? Or is it the actions and choices one makes?

And can a monster ever become something else? Can new choices ever wash away the stain of blood?

Meeting a young boy with a monstrous visage in the middle of a destroyed village sets Kisame on the path to looking for the answers to those questions. And more.

Maybe the outcast men and woman that Bloody Mist tried to shape into monsters and demons can band together and raise a new, better Kiri out of out of the bloody ocean of its past.

Nitty-gritty spoilerific summary: Kisame falls ass backwards into a found family with first Juugo, then Karin and Kimimaro, and finally a relationship with Zabuza. He ends up joining the revolution Mei is heading, but things don't go to plan and he gets dragged into politics while officially a missing-nin (but preparing for a second go at taking over Kiri). The politics feature Orochimaru and Konoha. Also Juugo is a sweetheart, Karin is a tiny menace, and Kimimaro is handling his trauma slightly better than in canon. (and Haku is in the background being an unrepentant meddling matchmaker)

And here are the links to the claims list and the form to claim fics:

[kankuroplease]

I understand your reaction with Sasuke x mei, but how do you like sakura x kisame, don’t they have the same age gap?🤔

I don’t care about age gaps, they happen and it’s not always predatory. I care about the context and familiarity behind the relationships within the story. So Two reasons,

1. Sakura and Kisame never actually met or got to know each other while Sakura was underage, meaning any interactions between the two is all HCs and imagination. It gets rid of the idea that Sakura only likes someone for their looks because Kisame (even though I think he’s handsome) is considered a “freak of nature” and it would show she’s actually able to move on from a childhood crush. Kisame also would be getting a strong and caring partner, so this ship gets the green light. A wins a win

2. Sasuke and Mei did meet and didn’t really get to know each other, BUT shipping them makes this odd af comment even more problematic for me

It reinforces that Sasuke attracts people because of his looks and looks only, which we all know he isn’t into whatsoever.

It also negatively indicates that Mei was seriously flirting with a minor and might have actually been considering him a potential suitor because she’s portrayed as marriage obsessed. Meaning, she would indeed manipulate him to her advantage.

Even if I wanted to play devils advocate; neither one would actually get anything positive from this ship. These ships are not the same despite having the same age gap.