#lament for the rohirrim

[fragiledewdrop]

WHERE NOW THE HORSE AND THE RIDER-Aka how I just had a Tolkien related freak out on the train

I can't believe what just happened to me. As in, it's such a weird chain of events that it has left me a little dizzy.

I was reading "Les Nourritures Terrestres" by Gide, and I got to a point he cites parts of a poem which I liked very much. The notes informed me that it's a French translation of "an 8th century saxon elegy called 'The Wanderer' "

That intrigued me, and, being on a train with a lot of time to pass (plus being a little tired of reading in French), I took out my phone and searched for the poem.

I found it here. It's the lament of a warrior in exile who has lost his lord and mourns the joy and glory of a world that has now disappeared. I was enjoying it a lot.

And then I got to this point:

And my mouth actually dropped open, because what?

Are you telling me that the Lament for the Rohirrim, one of my favourite poems in LOTR, which I learnt by heart at 13 and later took care to learn in the original English, which I sing when I do the dishes and which routinely makes me cry, is Tolkien's translation of an 8th century Saxon elegy?

Well, the notes at the end of the page confirmed it:

"Tolkien's rendition is hard to resist" I bet it is. I love that professional philologists add notes to their work saying "yeah, by the way, this bit here? It's in your favourite fantasy novel, and I am kinda jealous of how well it was translated, but it's Tolkien, the man spoke Old English, what can you do? Carry on, xoxo"

I mean, I had gathered that the Tolkien poem played on themes used in medieval literature, but I had no idea it was based on an actual, specific text. That makes it a hundred times cooler!

Maybe it's common knowledge, but it was a delicious tidbit of good news to me. Especially since I wasn't expecting it in the least, so I was blindsided by it.

Cherry on top? I had ignored the Old English text, since I don't understand it, but at the end I gave it a cursory read , and the line "Alas for the splendor of the prince"? "Eala þeodnes þrym!"

Now, I have never studied Old English, but I know roughly how to pronounce it (what kind of Silmarillion fan would I be if I didn’t recognize the thorn?). þeodnes has to be where "Theoden" comes from, right?

Apparently yes. I googled the "Lament for the Rohirrim", and Tolkien Gathaway has a nice little parapraph in which they explain all this. I don't know why I had never read it before, but it was a lot more fun learning it as an unexpected detour from my French practice, not gonna lie.

Bottom line: Tolkien was a both a nerd and a genius and continues to make my life brighter, and this is one of those moments in which I am very happy I have spent years of my life learning languages.

Thanks for coming to my impromptu TedTalk.

[haveyoureadthispoem-poll]

"Where now the horse and the rider? / Where is the horn that was blowing? / Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?"

Read it here | Reblog for a larger audience!

[eggplant-crusader]

Lament for the Fic Writer

Where now the multi-chapter and the novel? Where is the world that was built? Where is the thought and the writing, and the late-night edits? Where is the hand that was typing, and the morning sun rising? Where is the pride and the comments and the kudos growing?

They have passed like a show that's been cancelled, like a girlfriend in comics; The fics have gone down in my brain along with cells into nothing. Who shall gather the dead WIPs rotting, Or behold the unused thoughts from the past returning?

[gizkalord]

@usergif back to cool event: challenge 01 - blending

THE LORD OF THE RINGS - LAMENT FOR THE ROHIRRIM

ubi sunt (lit: “where are”) - 1. originating from a Latin phrase meaning “where are those who were before us?”; 2. a poetic motif meditating on the nature of transience and inevitability.

[lesbiansforboromir]

Categorically the most galling part of this universal perception that Boromir is a 'poor out-of-his-depth himbo whose completely ignorant of politics' is how it is blindingly canonically apparent that he put massive effort into being a political entity, to the point that his political opinions follow him even into the Council of Elrond.

Without the Council of Elrond, one could interpret his narrative positioning as a more 'Middle Man' and less 'high' as something forced upon him, a (narratively framed) negative aspect of his character that Faramir is critisising and lamenting as just 'part of his nature'. He is being associated with the Rohirrim and other 'lesser' men because he is also a 'lesser' man inspite of his heritage, due to his 'flawed' and 'weak-willed' personality.

Although that is still a bit of a stilted and awkward interpretation in my opinion, Eomer explicitely differentiates Boromir's treatment and manner around the Rohirrim from other men of Gondor he has known. He is 'less grim' etc etc, Eomer felt more at ease in his company, which implies to me more that Boromir interacted with the Rohirrim as equals, unlike most of this kin. Which seems more likely to be an active effort on his part.

But interpretations based off of that are entirely unnecessary, because the Council of Elrond exists! Where Boromir, when confronted with Aragorn's mistrust of the Rohirrim and Gwaihir's accusation that they pay a tribute of horses to Sauron, immediately and comfortably comes to their staunch defense. 'It is a lie that comes from the Enemy' he declares, literally pointing out propeganda that all these elves and dunadain are primed to believe given their own investment in the racial divide between them and these 'middle men'. A primer that also belongs to Boromir, whose place amongst the 'high men' is a right bestowed on him from birth, yet one he is actively discarding here in favour of defending the Rohir perspective.

And not only that! He even goes so far as to place the rohirrim's ethnic and cultural heritage as a reason for their trustworthiness, inspite of the fact that they cannot claim any relation to any so called 'blessed' lineage. They come from 'the free days of old', a statement that is similar to one of Faramir's but that, tellingly, Faramir uses as a method of infantilising the rohirrim 'they remind us of the youth of Men'.

These are all inherently and radically political statements for the heir of the Stewardship, the man next in line to be chieftain of the southern dunadain, to declare, especially when acting as emissary as he is now.

So now, all those moments when Boromir is linked directly with middle men, when his right to his 'high' heritage is questioned, when he is critisised with the same racially charged language as the rohirrim are (too warlike, "we are become Middle Men, of the Twilight, but with memory of other things" [-] "So even was my brother, Boromir") - all of that is now on purpose, on Boromir's part. He is the one distancing himself from the title of 'high' and questioning it's validity in the process, something Faramir clearly disapproved of and was a part of the breakdown in his respect for him. (Understandable, considering Faramir's equal and opposite effort to reclaim the title of 'high' for himself and his people.) Boromir is, essentially, engaging in some kind of racial-hierarchy criticism/abolishionism and activism.

That is not to say that his political opinions all entirely pass muster, he does still engage in racist rhetoric at least once, calling Gondor's eastern enemies 'the wild folk of the east'. But within the context of his own country and it's ethnic diversity, his position is maverick in comparison to pretty much everyone else.

And before anyone says it, let me head off comments like 'Boromir was just being himself, he didn't even know it was political he was just that stupid but I love him for it' No. Boromir's reputation in Gondor was complex and multifacetted but a great many people loved and supported him, clearly we see that there was a divide in political opinion between the two brother's stances on war and society. What you are essentially saying here is that Faramir is such a dull-witted statesman that he was incapable of swaying opinion his way against someone who didn't even know he was a part of the discussion, who wasnt even involved in the debates, against a high society that based their cultural identity on being descended from racially superior Numenoreans. The historical perspective is heavily weighted in Faramir's favour.

The much more likely state of affairs is that Boromir and Faramir have both been working towards their own social change and against each other, causing an opinion divide within the country. And apparently Boromir has not been losing that fight, even if he hasn't been definitively winning it either. Some people call him reckless where Faramir is measured, others say Faramir is not bold enough, Denethor himself claims Faramir is placing his desire for nobility and 'high-ness' over the safety of himself and his people. Culturally Gondor is going in for more pursuits of war-sports (wrestling perhaps) and the adulation of the soldiers that defend them, above the men of lore if Faramir is to be believed.

Society is changing around this debate and Boromir is actively, purposefully and directly involved in that debate! Hells bells, he even describes a part of how he works in the political sphere to Frodo! 'Where there are so many, all speech becomes a debate without end. But two together may perhaps find wisdom.' Boromir is!!! A politician!! On purpose!!

The neutral political position of 'Heir to the Stewardship' given to him by his birth is so ludicrously weighted towards faithful that the effort it must have taken to push the needle and associate with the middle men as such a divisive yet loved figure is MASSIVE. Boromir believed the Rohirrim and middle men of Gondor were his social equals and counted them amongst his people and that was a stance he upheld in PARLIMENT! Stop!! Acting like he's just a blockheaded soldier who cares about nothing else- he cares!! He cares a lot!! Professionally in fact!!

[astronicht]

I’ve gotten to Rohan Proper and I KNEW it was coming but I didn’t know exactly when or how and just. Wow okay the fact that it’s Aragorn who knows The Wanderer, and translates it… oh my fucking god. Of course Aragorn knows this one, the way he knows Beren & Luthien. Of course Aragorn on-the-spot translates The Wanderer. Beautifully. With some poetic license, but it is p much one century on and no one cares, everyone loves “Where now the horse and the rider”.

(I suspect THIS piece of early medieval lore is more widely known, but if you’ve never read this actual facts real life poem The Wanderer (aka the Lament of Rohirrim) in full — Aragorn just quotes an extract near the end — I highly recommend it. Literally everyone loves The Wanderer. Translating Beowulf sucks and I hate it. Translating The Wanderer feels like reading Lord of the Rings. And not just because it is… in LOTR).

Rutgers translations are always a little more fun and lively; Roy Liuzza’s translation is maybe my top choice. And of course the original Old English is great stuff. I mean, “Swa cweath eardstappa”?? Aragornnnn

Liuzza’s translation, the OG Old English, and Tolkien’s version (he added some stuff, and mixed in a few themes from later lines):

Also FYI the reason I knew it was coming is because my Old English teacher’s great joy was assigning her class this section of The Wanderer for a warm-up translation at the start of class, and then and sit back watching as the realization tore violently through the ranks.

[camille-lachenille]

Playlist for the 25th March

For the Battle of the Black Gate (T.A. 3019):

For the Oath of Eorl (T.A. 2510):

[hiddenvioletsgrow]

crying in your room to clamavi de profundis's version of the lament for the rohirrim, just normal saturday activities

[dustdeepsea]

Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing? Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing? Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing? They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow; The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow. Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning, Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?

Lament for the Rohirrim, J.R.R. Tolkien

[theworldsoftolkein]

The Lament for the Rohirrim | Clamavi De Profundis

[laserlesbians]

Little arrangement of my favorite poem from Lord of the Rings! Poem text below the cut, if you want it copyable. Also, this project taught me how much I hate gilding is and also how much fun gilding is!

Lament For the Rohirrim

J. R. R. Tolkien

Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?

Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?

Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?

Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?

They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow;

The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow.

Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning,

Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?

[hallothere]

22 with Lothrandir perhaps? he needs a hug

22. Hug (Sort of a continuation from the other 'Lothrandir leaving Isengard' prompt)

For the first time in weeks he was surrounded. By people. By voices. By the thrumming not of machinery but of hoofbeats, regular without incessancy. Laughter. Sunshine.

He'd been given a horse blanket and a spot close to the fire. With his hood up and his brothers' spare things, there was nothing to tell the Rohirrim he wasn't one of the dozens of less-remarkable Rangers milling around the camp at Dunharrow.

It did nothing, also, to hide him from his brothers.

"Lothrandir!"

He gripped his cup tighter as Techeron came into the firelight, breathless, uncowled and uncowed. His dark mood went unacknowledged, as Techeron seemed cheered just to have found him.

"Halbarad said you were well!" He seemed to be trying to fight down a smile. Irrepressible. "We could scarcely believe--"

A crack. Lothrandir was bone weary, battered, and barely able to sit upright, but he saw it. Techeron had one of the more celebrated poker faces in the Company, or rather, one of the most lamented. He felt, all of them did, but could hide it better than most. Was that the purpose of the attitude? Try to hide a grin so no one looks for anything else?

It was the eyes, he thought, bright. Lit up with the effort. Techeron had been the smallest of them, the old crew in Evendim. To ask Orchalwë now, he would deny strenuously anything but the stewardship and care of a green recruit, but not so when they were younger. The pair of them had thought to make a game of Techeron's first posting and learned his true mettle at their peril. Then, they had been inseparable until reassignment.

But that was years past, and the path of the Grey Company was the first he had walked with Techeron since. Lothrandir could still see the new oathsworn he and Orchalwë had sworn to as brothers. And he could not stand the thought- could not bear it- for Techeron to see him in this state.

"What a story it will make." Techeron picked up again, seemingly undaunted. "You've befriended one wizard and gotten the better of the other."

Lothrandir had not meant to flinch, but his mask was not so good as Techeron's. He was not used to the new Mithrandir, even after his departure. That had been hard to stomach. He did not like fearing retribution from the hand of a friend.

"Yes, well," he began, "I doubt many will find torture so interesting. Let us speak no more of it."

He'd punctured Techeron like a full waterskin. The deflated, wilting man beside him bore none of the false exuberance from a moment ago. Lothrandir swallowed and looked away. He didn't want Techeron to leave, no, he wished him never to have come. To never have asked and never necessitated this kind of answer. To have come later, when he was full-recovered and his old self, not trapped under so much weakness--

"I will leave." Techeron spoke abruptly. "I will go tend to the rations- it was my chore tonight. But... suffer me only a moment."

Lothrandir turned, eyes weary, to find Techeron lunging forward. He hugged like a drowning man, and it took all of Lothrandir's will not to cry out.

"I dared not hope you survived." Techeron said. He stumbled over a hitch in his throat as he continued, "I was not brave enough to lose you twice, brother." He jumped back looking pained, and before Lothrandir could stop him he disappeared among the tents.

He found his trembling hand outstretched. Lothrandir closed it and set his arm back in his lap. It was good that Techeron had gone. It was good. He would do better not to see. Lothrandir would do better to bear this alone.

[fcb4]

Many people don't know that there were over 60 songs and poems in J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings. This group Clamavi De Profundis (from the depths I cry) puts some of them to song.

Durin’s Song https://youtu.be/uxfoa23skHg?si=NjAwQOV0DgcMYDiV

Lament for the Rohirrim https://youtu.be/2YTBgFmK_bs?si=ljD_VhE-Uio2O7sa

Lament for Boromir https://youtu.be/LjPxuY9djhw?si=j0_kG3CIIfPd7GPj

[reallyhardy]

on the hunt for performances by the actors cast in watermill's LOTR musical cast, at least the ones i am interested in :') here yazdan qafouri who will be portraying legolas, i do think he has the right type of voice for legolas' part for sure - also i just learned that yazdan has provided some voice work for the animated film 'The Lord of the Rings: The War of the Rohirrim', so it'll be his second time in middle earth

i know louis maskell's voice well from the grinning man, he's great in all the high bits in TGM but equally the lower bits so i'm sure he'll handle the lowest parts of the hobbit songs well, when i saw news of his casting i was like yes i can imagine how he'll do some of frodo's lines he'll be great at the Tortured Parts haha

nuwan hugh perera i was lucky to see understudying the role of lucien in the amelie UK tour in 2019 and that's when i absolutely fell in love, but here's him singing and he's just LOVELY he's going to be the perfect sam:

folarin akinmade is a songwriter and he has a lovely voice and many, many uploads to youtube so a wealth of recordings to hear from him, and i think he'll do a great lament for moria

[a-funeral-pyre]

Some more music recommandations

See? I’m not dead yet. This is mostly going to be about Tolkien.

Tolkien:

-A Elbereth Giltoniel, Martin Romberg

-Songs of the mounds of Mundburg, The Tolkien Ensemble

-Tom Bombadil’s song, The Tolkien Ensemble

-The burial song of Théoden, The Tolkien Ensemble

-Elven hymn to Elbereth Giltoniel, The Tolkien Ensemble

-Farewell song of Merry and Pippin, The Tolkien Ensemble

-Galadriel’s lament, Broceliande

-Lament for Boromir, Broceliande

-The lay of Nimrodel, Broceliande

-Lament for the Rohirrim, The Lonely Mountain Band

-The prophecy, Yolanda Mott

-The barrel song, Beth Ortolano

-Bilbo’s last song, Malcolm Martineau

-There and back again, Ainur

-Where hope and daylight die, Summoning

-The border of Eldamar, Eldamar

Swan lake:

-Swan lake, Dark Moor

Arthurian legends:

-Avalon, Vexillum