#like i'm not looking to start discourse in a fandom (which i most definitely will not do anyways)

[worstcharacterpoll]

[Image description: A tournament bracket of 32 contenders, labeled "Tumblr's most hated." The matchups on the left are Vriska vs. Pearl from SU; Rex from Victorious vs. Rick Sanchez; Ansem the Wise vs. Gul Dukat; Kylo Ren vs. Kokichi Ouma; Scrappy Doo vs. Sheldon Cooper; Pierre from Stardew vs. Mort from Madagascar; Seraphine from League vs. Heimskr; and Jurgen Leitner vs. Andre Glacier. The matchups on the right are Walter White vs. Light Yagami; Buck Cluck vs. Ross Geller; Bramblestar vs. Starlight Glimmer; Goro Akechi vs. Pariston Hill; Katsuki Bakugo vs. Berdly; Angel Dust vs. the Impostor; Olaf from Frozen vs. Hooty; and Zenos viator Galvus vs. Tony Stark. The bracket is red on a black background. End ID]

Here is the official bracket for the most Hated Character on Tumblr! Each round will last 24 hours, with a 12 hour break in between. Round 1 should start Feb 9, 2023 at 9:00 AM CST.

As a reminder, this tournament is for the characters that you hate the most, so always vote for your least favorite of the two options. The winner will be publicly executed.

FAQ under cut:

Q: Why did you put in x character and not y character? Aren't there more hateable characters from that franchise?

A: I wanted to keep the competition light-hearted, funny, and interesting. I intentionally avoided most shitty parent characters, dictators, characters who were meant to be hated, etc., as well as characters heavily associated with bigotry and sexual assault, and gravitated towards characters that were more divisive in fandom. Exceptions were only made for characters I am familiar enough with and can use my own judgement for. Using Zenos as an example: He is a villain who is very evil and meant to be hated, which I mostly avoided when taking suggestions for things I wasn't familiar with myself. However, he's very divisive between people who think he's a good interesting villain, people who don't think he's a good villain and don't like him in the story at all, and people who want him carnally. Walter White is also meant to be hated, but he has a meme status, and as a villain protagonist I think he's more interesting than most "meant to be hated" characters. Also, there are certain franchises that I simply didn't want to include. If JK Rowling wasn't such a real and horrible political presence, owing all her influence to Harry Potter, I would've definitely put Snape on the poll. As it stands, I don't really want to give HP any attention. TL;DR answer: Because it's funnier that way

Q: But I LIKE that character :(

A: As mentioned before, I specifically gravitated more towards characters who are more divisive rather than universally hated. They are usually more interesting, and there is more variety with those types of characters - you don't have shitty dad character #1 vs. shitty dad character #2. I actually looked for "anti-(character)" tags and discourse about that character when making decisions about who to include. lol If you actually like some of these characters (uh, my condolences), vote against them in their respective matchups.

Q: Is it too late to suggest a replacement?

A: Yes.

Q: Why are you doing this?

A: I feed off of hatred and violence. I want to see who tumblr users REALLY hate.

Q: Why Pearl?

A: It was quite a while ago now so I get it if people don't remember, but Pearl discourse used to be a big thing and people argued that she was irredeemable for many of the things she did early on in the show. If you remember the "Pearl hates the Irish" meme, that was a parody of how much people hated her

Q: Why Hooty?

A: I haven't seen the Owl House but I'm told many people think he's annoying. Also he's voiced by Alex Hirsch and fuck that guy he did my boy Ford so dirty I'm still mad about this

Q: Why Starlight Glimmer?

A: MLP:FiM is another show I didn't really watch but she was a villain who got redeemed and became a main character and a lot of people think her redemption arc was rushed and botched and she actually made a lot of people quit watching the show. One of my close friends really really really hates her and I don't think that's an isolated incident

Q: Why Berdly?

A: Annoying. Personally I think his arc of becoming less annoying was pretty fun but a lot of people still hate him.

Q: Why Bakugo (instead of Mineta)?

A: I actually debated this a lot and held a preliminary poll which Mineta actually won. But then I decided democracy is dead because Mineta really wouldn't be as interesting as Bakugo in this tournament because he's basically universally hated. Bakugo is more interesting because people who hate him REALLY hate him, while people who love him REALLY love him. Kind of like Vriska. I think. I never read Homestuck and I don't plan on ever doing so.

Q: Why Tony Stark?

A: He's a heavily divisive character because he's a war profiteer billionaire with a superiority complex, but the narrative treats him as a morally pure hero. Also, he's MCU Spider-Man's mentor and most of MCU Spider-Man is basically defined by Tony Stark and he's not allowed to be his own character. There's a bunch of other stuff but I didn't watch and I don't care about most of the MCU. Personally I'm a really big Spider-Man fan and I despise him for what he did to Peter Parker but I shall refrain from making this a long rant.

Q: Why did you include characters that you're not familiar with?

A: I didn't want to exclusively have characters from my interests. I wanted a bit of variety. Before the poll started, I accepted submissions for candidates, and basically trusted submitters to send in decent characters. Some of the characters I ended up with may go against the vague guidelines I set for myself, which kind of sucks, but that's how it is now.

Q: This bracket sucks.

A: Make your own tournament then. I'm just some guy making a tournament on tumblr dot com for free. Don't take it too seriously.

[amnyatas]

Wasn't sure where to reply to the post about there not being enough content about the Guild Wars 2 ladies but I will say for me personally, I definitely do tend to prefer playing with, fantasizing about, my male characters more. My experience irl as a woman has been in some areas traumatizing, or there's been a lot of shame associated with concepts I wanted to explore as a character, for example: fighting, sex, being ugly, getting hurt. It feels safer or more comfortable with a male character because it provides a kind of distance that allows me to explore and experiment with feelings and ideas that may not feel safe or open to me as a woman with certain experiences.

Further more, it's hard to identify with Guild Wars 2 female characters, as non of them are allowed to be ugly. Middle age does not exist visually in Guild Wars 2 for (human looking) women, nor do torn ears and split lips. They can't be fat, or even particularly muscular - even if they are a war marshal. You can't look monstrous without it coming across as some kind of joke either. There is a kind of unreality, or an over idealization of female characters in mmorpgs whether it's a lack of customization options, or a lack of down to earth female characters. It always leaves me feeling like they're still forgetting their female player base sometimes. Still, I do have female characters. I keep them pretty private because they feel more personal I guess. I'll try to make more effort to share them.

i really don't even know where to start here but i'll do my best.

i think in general i wasn't clear enough, i don't mean the game is misogynist at its core(or that it isn't), i don't even mean individuals are for the most part, i mean little things like that add up and then we have discourse like people shitting on Eir for being a bad mom (on a poll with Cadeucus like. hello?), but being wholly lenient on Rytlock for being in a similar situation where he was far less responsible. Or Caithe being hated eternally for her egg-tastrophe vs Canach's vigilante streak being widely ignored or joked about.

really, its got nothing to do with personal trauma, i can't tell you how to deal with that and if your way is good or bad for you or anyone else. i had someone approach me because they saw their bad relationship with their mother in Eir and admitted they were taking out personal frustration on a fictional character. we all have issues and hangups and ways of dealing with it, that's not the issue, the issue is if it starts affecting how we treat others because of it.

you don't have to sit and try to appease the criticism i make either, just...think about it?

like honestly bringing up womens' appearance ingame is a valid point if it were actually related to what i was saying, but also none of the men in gw2 are really fat either. its a problem persistent in the wider video game industry, not just gw2--i'm talking specifically about the gw2 fandom on tumblr, and my experiences here. which i'm finding i'm not alone in feeling this way, and its kind of frustrating to have an ask like this show up, missing the point and making it personal. its really not about anyone specific!

maybe i wasn't clear enough but its not a gw2-only problem. its the same thing that happens in every fandom. which doesn't make it right, it just...goes unspoken about and it makes people feel like no one cares.

just asking folks to think about where their biases lie, and hell, not even to stop at how they think about fictional women, keep asking yourself if your hatred or dislike or boredom with a character is because you genuinely feel that way or if you have some internalized things that you maybe need to work through.

[copperbadge]

Sam, how did you find your therapist and build such a good working relationship? Every attempt I’ve made at therapy seems to fizzle out after a few months… and no therapist has ever understood the RSD aspect of my ADHD, which makes it all feel a little worse every time I try.

I mean, I think really we're still building it -- I haven't had her more than a couple of months and functionally it's been an every-two-weeks situation most of the time because we keep having to move/cancel. I don't know that I can really speak intelligently to building a relationship with a therapist because this is the first time I've ever done it where I was an adult and in control. As for finding one...

Chicago has a group called Clarity Clinic, which is like a WeWork for mental health professionals -- they offer scheduling, billing, and IT/office space to local people who I think are mostly independent operators otherwise. They have a directory that is highly filterable, so I found my psychiatrist there by filtering to stuff like Adult ADHD and medication management. He's great, but he didn't want to be my therapist and I didn't want him to. When I decided on therapy, I asked him if he knew anyone he could recommend, since he knew what my deal was in terms of personality, behavior, etc.

So he gave me a couple of names of fellow Clarity Clinic folks and I had a look on the website and chose the one that sounded like she'd get on best with me. I think I struck it lucky to be honest -- she's young (compared to me) and has ADHD, and she's very familiar with disability discourse, spoon theory, etc, even fandom to an extent. If I were to go looking today I might look more at therapists who specialize in twice-exceptional individuals, but she's good enough with what I'm aiming at that I don't want to change.

So the best advice I have is if you're being treated for other stuff by someone you trust I'd ask them, but also look for someone experienced with adult ADHD, and I'd look for someone on the younger side who's more likely to be understanding of neurodivergent needs. (I also recommend filtering to queer-friendly therapists if you can; I didn't necessarily need that but it means they're likely to be generally accepting and probably have more liberal politics. With the caveat that in shady places like BetterHealth, "LGBTQIA" counselors are sometimes homophobic creeps with an axe to grind.)

Building the relationship has taken proactivity on my part -- ensuring that I always have an appointment on the books (we book out about six weeks in advance now, because we know one of us will likely need to cancel/rebook at times), making sure that I have either an aim for treatment or at least something to talk about, etc. I think in your case probably having a list of things you want to deal with, so that you can check some boxes up top, might help.

I would definitely open with "I have ADHD and I need help with [aspects of that]; I also have RSD and I need to work with someone who respects that diagnosis and understands how to help with it." I went into mine saying "I have ADHD and I'm also struggling with some really big emotion, so I'm looking for help with those, but also like...I'm not really sure what therapy can offer. I've had some bad experiences in the past but they were all when I was a child, so I'm trying to explore some options." Her reaction was a combination of sympathy and a discussion of the kinds of things we might work on, which helped a great deal.

But yeah, I think it starts with establishing right from the jump what you want and need, and then spending time making sure that you both stay on top of that until you find a rhythm. We're still finding our rhythm, but it's getting easier as I'm learning to be clearer about what I want and more comfortable with being a participant instead of someone therapy just happens to.

[freefromthecocoon]

I appreciate your positive views. There's all this discourse between the Caryl shippers. I feel as though MT and That Left Turn have sinister aspersions to divide us all further until no one can enjoy this spin off. With that said, it also looks like you and your friends are just as negative but in a different mean girls sort of way. You're like this clique of ladies who only talk to each other and when anyone else tries to speak up, you ignore them. I'm on your server. I'm in that group. You are all so hard to make friends with. You're all sort of ... Only speak to those in the 'inner circle' I don't feel comfortable talking to anyone there about how a few of us feel like outcasts in this supposedly welcoming, positive Caryl server. I just wanted you to know that people there feel left out of conversations, group discussions. I like you it's just hard to be friends with you. Please be mindful. Try engaging with more of the soft spoken people there. We want to talk more it's just hard to. Thank you.

Hello anon,

First let me say I agree with you about the sinister aspersions of the two people you mentioned. That's really all I have to add to that.

Secondly and most importantly, let me apologize if I have made you feel unwelcome on the server. It has not been my intention. I am trying to look at my own discourse in our fandom which is a big reason I am answering this ask. I can only speak to my own actions, but I will tell you that for a while, there were only a handful of us left on the server after some left to create a different server. I believe they called themselves a collective of sorts...to combat the perceived injustice against Melissa.

There were instances of screenshots being taken from the server, early on...not now to my knowledge. And being filtered to other more negative parts of the fandom.

When the news of the spinoff change came out, I took some time away from fandom because of my heartbreak, but mainly because of some real life issues that I had to address. A couple of people reached out to me to check on me, but I didn't hear from a lot of people who I considered friends. Things were really quiet for a long time due to just not a lot of news to be honest. As more postive news started to trickle in, people started to trickle back into the server.

It's taken a while to build up trust again. I realize that is a real thing no matter where you are in the fandom. I lost some friends over this past two years that I thought were not loseable and that makes me sad.

I don't know how active you are currently on the server, but it has been overwhelmingly joyous in there over the past few weeks and especially this weekend. We have so much to look forward to.

I will close with this. I am really trying to be more interactive and we definitely want more people to interact and enjoy the goodness we have been blessed with. I will say that if you are still on the server, please feel free to DM either there or here and we can discuss things at a more indepth level if you like.

I wish you a blessed day and remember...

CARYL ON EVERYBODY!!!

[acourtofthought]

Hiiiii,

I just wanted to ask whether you think there is even a slight possibility that SJM might go for a Gwynriel book next?

I know you're adamant that it will be Elucien (I'm kind of hoping it is them too), but is Gwynriel completely out of the picture in your mind?

I'll be happy with whatever ship happens because it would finally end this shipwar, but I've just seen a discourse between Eluciens and Gwynriels about whose book is next, and I think SJM's set it up so it could go either way.

I definitely think there is a real possibility for Gwynriel to be next!

There are a lot of reasons, both plot related ones and ones that make the most sense to me in relation to the characters individual journey's that lead me to think it will be Elucien's however these aren't my characters and this isn't my story to tell. I have no authority over what SJM does and even with my best guesses based off what's she's said or done in the past, I don't know if the way I think is the way she thinks.

I'm not even confident enough to say that I know without a doubt that E/riel is not happening though I think that is much less likely.

There has been discourse between Elucien's and Gwynriels as of late, you're right. For some Gwynriels, I think they are just so ready to have confirmation that Az will not end up with Elain because of the battles with E/riels over the years and are excited to see him end up with one of their favorites instead. But as a result I do think some are at times forgetting to be a little more considerate of who they proclaim to be their allies in the fandom (Eluciens) and why the force feeding of the"Gwynriels book is 100% next!" rhetoric (because of Az's recent buildup) sort of stomps all over Elucien's who know Lucien had buildup from book 1 and has been a prominent character from the start yet that still didn't guarantee him a book yet. Who is being undermined by Az's character.

I think if the roles were reversed and Lucien was mistreating Az in the series and Az had been waiting for the resolution to his mating bond since 2016 they would probably be feeling a lot like Elucien's right now. And if Elucien's book is next and they then acknowledge they'll be waiting another 4 years for an Az book, they'll probably be feeling a bit of the intense disappointment Elucien's have lived with.

On the flip side to all that, a few Elucien's (not many, I know I'm one of the main ones) have been more vocal in arguing against all that which does contribute to the overall negativity in the fandom. But I do think that sometimes it's too much for anyone to look the other way and be the bigger person. We're all human but I have noticed that Elucien's are often expected to be the bigger people in this fandom, that they're expected to be the ones who sit quietly by and allow everyone to say whatever they want about Elain or Lucien, to just accept that "they're delusional for thinking Elucien could be next when it's so obvious" and the second you begin to argue back you're called out for the exact same behavior the other groups have participated in.

[fractalkiss]

i'm curious how does one actually get into f1, particularly the fandom side of it. it all seems so interesting but i don't know how to take the plunge, is there a good beginner's guide re: rules/basic team lore or anything you'd recommend outside of race watching?

hi anon! for learning the rules, i think one of the easiest ways is to look up technical stuff and learn the sporting terms when watching the races. it sounds daunting but i only properly got into the sport by doing this (alongside my sibling who got invested first lol) and being tuned into a community to keep up through season happenings, which then kind of folded into the fandom experience. f1blr is where i hang out for fandom, but it's definitely not what makes the entire experience!

i think the best place to start would be to look at any team or drivers that you're intrigued about and start diving deeper from there. you'll find that a lot of the lore inter-connects through the years and by learning about one thing, you can pick up more about another driver/team/event etc. to help follow the sport i recommend:

the f1 official website and f1tv: everything from news, article writeups, interviews and race content is on their site, and you can keep up with the live race sessions through f1tv and even watch older races on the f1tv archive, though it is a paid subscription. the f1 website even has a glossary to refer to sporting terms and if you're interested in more, f1tv has analysis videos where they review key moments after the race sessions. if you're reluctant to pay for anything, there are sites that stream the live races for free lol and even more free and accessible media too below.

youtube channels: for actual motorsport lore and history, the only channel i recommend is CYMotorsport, who does highly digestible deep dive videos that run through past seasons, championships, rivalries, scandals etc in a way that isn't oversensationalized. this channel was literally my friend lol, i have spent many hours just watching their stuff and they even have a new to f1? playlist you can start with! chainbear was what i used to check out back then to get to know more about the technical stuff, useful for beginners!

news/communities: i usually check my news on the r/formula1 subreddit. like any other highly active sports community across platforms it's rife with discourse if you want to keep a pulse on all that. it's much easier to get my news from there in an efficient way (tumblr can be impossible for me to do this quickly) since the source under a reddit topic is usually linked in the post or in comments so you can see for yourself if something is coming from a credible and non-contentious source or not. because integrity in f1 journalism has always been terrible, just take most things with a grain of salt. the main publications like motorsport.com and autosport are okay. i also check twitter to see what journalists are saying although there's a lot of drivel and questionable he-said-she-said stuff that tends to get spread lol so honestly i really only check Chris Medland's tweets... the one guy i trust. i also subscribe to r/F1Technical, much less discourse since it's very sport and technical-focused for people who want genuine answers about anything asked.

documentaries: nflix's dts is fine for learning names and faces on a pretty surface level, and it was my introduction to the sport as a New Fan but not a necessary watch since it's more sensationalized. instead, you can watch documentaries centered around a driver; i watched one (1) season of fernando alonso's docu series for fun lol and schumacher's docu film. my little sibling and i like history a lot so we watched a life of speed: the juan manuel fangio story, an interesting watch about old motorsport - i haven't checked out other driver-focused docus besides these but you can pick up anything that interests you! but if i have to recommend one docu miniseries, it's "brawn: the impossible formula 1 story." don't be fooled and put off by keanu reeves being narrator skfskf the miniseries is an excellent mix imo of technical stuff explained coupled with really good storytelling featuring some of the most well-known names in the sport behind the teams.

i think once you start building grounds over time to get a basic grasp of how the sport works, everything else that comes with entering a fandom like meeting people will follow after pretty naturally :) it took me a while to do this and garner slow investment in a fave guy/team. i hope this is helpful, anon! i'd be happy to chat and answer more questions if you have them!

[danmei-confessions]

Not to jump on the JGY discourse badwagon, and please don't tag this with JGY for reasons I'm about to outline, but what JGY fans consider 'bashing' is really absurd to me. I've never been in a fandom like this. I admit, I'm new to the fandom and there seems to be a lot of history that has caused people to become over-sensitive but BOY OH BOY are they over-sensitive.

I've seen people accused of bashing JGY for calling him a villain. Which is just... true? I suppose if you prefer the term antagonist but people often (erroneously) use the terms interchangeably and antagonist is a more accurate definition of his placement in the story (antagonist being a character who is opposed to the protagonist, regardless of morals or who might be 'right' or 'wrong'). I think there's a fair case to be made for defining him as a 'villain' as well but I think there's a fair case to define most of the characters in MDZS as 'villains' so that isn't really meant as some sort of condemnation of his character, just an acknowledgement that he has done villainous things and some of those villainous things for villainous reasons. All that to say, I do think it's totally fair to have interpretations of his character that are far more blameless. It is a story from an unreliable narrator so if you choose to read the narrative as being completely inaccurate with regards to him, I think that's actually a really fair interpretation of the text. I prescribe to a watsonian death-of-the-author view of literature so whatever you get out of the text is an entirely valid interpretation. My point is merely that it's an equally valid interpretation to view him as a 'villain' and calling him such, especially in a series such as MDZS, is a neutral statement. And yes, someone could use the label of villain as a jumping off point to start bashing him but what I'm trying to point out is the fans who call it 'bashing' if you call him a villain alone, regardless of whether the person calling him a 'villain' is a fan of his character or not.

And that's only one example. People have been accused of bashing him for simply stating things that he did within the novel. Which again, it's totally fair to interpret things like NMJ's death as justified or unjustified depending on your interpretation of the text but the fact is that he did it. It's also fair to think his involvement in JRS and QS death is dubious at best, but it's also a fair to interpret the text that he did do it. So again, if someone says "he killed JRS and QS" that is not bashing, that's just saying a thing that is entirely possible within the text. It would be bashing if they say "he killed JRS and QS and that's why he's the worst character ever and he should die etc etc etc" and I'm sure that this hyper-sensitive fans have dealt with that sort of nonsense in the past and that is why they're so hypersensitive and quick to call everything bashing, but it is really odd to watch.

Basically any statement that's even mildly uncharitable or even just goofing on his character a bit (in a light hearted or affectionate way) I've seen be called bashing. At this point, it feels to me as an outsider looking in that the only way you're 'allowed' to engage with his character is if you have the absolute most charitable interpretation of him. You can't be a villain-fucker who likes a morally dubious and manipulative guy, you have to interpret him as the most innocent little guy who never did anything wrong or you're bashing him.

And it's just very absurd to me. I'm a fandom veteran in my 40's and I've been through so many fandoms over the years and I've never seen any fandom be quite like this about a character. Yes, the JC defenders are also quite obsessive but from my perspective, I've seen more of them willing to acknowledge JC's faults than the JGY fans (of course, this is completely anecdotal and it's entirely possible that I've just only seen small portions of both fanbases that made one of them seem more defensive and aggressive than the other, in which case I do apologize. I'm really not trying to be uncharitable). But even with JC and XY and other widely contentious characters, I still see a lot more defensive/aggressive behavior than I'm used to seeing in other fandoms.

Again, this is anecdotal and just my path through fandoms and as a long-time villain-fucker, but in all the other fandoms I've been a part of it's been "omg he's the worst and that's why I love him" or even "he's the worst, why do I love him" or just any iteration of "I love this character, he's the best to me, but yeah he does shitty stuff sometimes".

This is just I guess an actual confession rather than real discourse because I'm not really interested in having discourse over this. I'm a bit exhausted seeing all the discourse and I might even start distancing myself from the fandom because the more I talk about it, the more I realize it's just a lot more exhausting for me than I realized. This is just an observation and a confession about how I've felt while observing the hyper-defensive nature of some fans within this fandom. Mostly just triggered by seeing someone comment "stop putting bashing in the tag" and I read the post and I was really struggling to see what the bashing was. Again, maybe there's dog-whistles I'm blind to or maybe people are just too hurt over past drama to see clearly or maybe I'm just too old for this stuff. I guess I'm just used to bashing to be... bashing? Not "look I love the guy but he's kinda mean lol" or "he's a good villain".

Back in my day (LOL) bashing was just defined differently I guess.

Anyway, continue to love your blorbo and in any way that brings you joy, I'm not the blorbo police.

For the record, JGY is my favorite character and I find him deeply sympathetic even in less charitable interpretations of the text. I just like who he is, regardless of whether he's 'justified' or 'good'. My personal interpretation of his character is somewhere in between the most charitable and most uncharitable. I think he's a good person in an impossible position who had to struggle for everything in life and those struggles twisted him up inside until he made lots of mistakes and committed a lot of unforgivable acts. His story is tragic to me and deeply engaging. And the fact that I wrote this up as a huge JGY fan and I don't want it tagged because I legitimately think there are parts of the JGY fanbase who would interpret this as bashing is why I think I need to give up this fandom.

.

[buckera]

I’m a new fan (yes a post Bi Buck binge watcher, just finished season 5 yesterday ((yes I have a lot of free time)).

And this is definitely opening up old discourse, so feel free to disregard.

But. I struggled so hard to like Taylor. I tried desperately not to do the “toxic slash shipper who hates the girlfriend” thing, but I just could not like her with Buck. I think as a character, she was great! Love a motivated girlboss who pushes buttons, but not so much when she’s being girlboss mean to her boyfriend. (Not that Buck didn’t deserve it once or twice for his late season 5 bs)

But I just don’t know what it was about Buck and Taylor specifically that I didn’t like. I liked Ana and Eddie. I even liked Ali and Buck.

What was the general fandom temperature regarding Taylor and Buck during Season 5?

hoooo okay.

so first of all, welcome to the fandom, hope you can find fun people to hang out with 💛

mind you, I wasn't around during season 5, I was lurking in the trending tags so I kinda knew what was going on with buddie in general lmao but I only actually watched the show in august (took me less than 2 weeks to binge it all the way through, so believe me I know how you feel) but Taylor Kelly is... well.

let me just start by saying that I love Taylor, but she feels like she's been written by two different writers room (which is actually kind of the cast because Tim wasn't around during season 5) and while I love her bossy, career driven characteristics, I felt mad about how dirty she was done.

and not even because Buck kissed some else, but because she straight up said (paraphrasing) "you cheated on me? i don't think you should've told me about it, that's not why i'm mad" and like. what?

for a strong, confident woman in a committed relationship to just say it's okay if you cheat on me, I don't care, just don't tell me? ngl that gutted me a little bit.

aside from that, Taylor and Buck was never going to work, partially because they are too similiar (work oriented, childhood trauma and abandonment issues that neither of them worked through, implied that they both had a bit of a slutty phase, etc) and partially because their moral codes are the thing that differs the most.

which we knew to begin with; Taylor was introduced as someone who would exploit Bobby's acid trip about his dead family to get ahead in her career. that is a good enough reason not to like her and I personally think that Eddie had his reservations about her for that exact reason.

they both live for their jobs, but Taylor is in it for the chase, the excitement, the recognition; Buck is in it because being a hero and helping people is his life. very stark difference.

Buck also jumped the gun with the moving, right after doing something that you don't normally do when you feel like taking the relationship to the next level. so he kinda put a strain on the relationship even though it seemed otherwise at the time.

then of course Taylor lied to him about working on the story, though she only broke it after they caught Jonah, so people saying that she endangered Hen and Chim are weird, unless they're implying that she followed them and didn't call 911? which would be a choice...

but back to fandom's reception of her and how you don't like her with Buck. you don't have to like her at all tbh, not every character or dynamic will be likable to everyone and that's fine, it's only an issue when people spend their time on hating a fictional character instead of focusing on the ones they like and when they send hate to the actors portraying them... which is something that as far as I'm aware happened to every single actress/actor who played a love interest to Buck or Eddie on the show.

this fandom hates women in general, just look at how most people talk about Shannon, Maddie, Abby, Ana, Taylor, Natalia, Marisol... like. characters are flawed that's why they're interesting, but hating them for having to make decisions in difficult situations? or for literally nothing but dating one of the guys as is the case of Ana and Marisol (though Marisol's actress is a vile human being and her character has a seemingly weird bond with her brother, so there is that).

I'd argue that Taylor is the most hated female character on the show and I regularly see posts that feature her with tags like "taylor kelly jumpscare" and such which I just find excessive...

[steddielations]

I'm not looking to start The Discourse so if you don't feel like answering this I'd totally understand, but I'm really glad to know I'm not the only one who feels like I'm losing it when I see people complain about how supposedly Eddie focused everything. I struggle to believe how these people can be serious about this. almost every fic ever in some way involves Eddie being a bad or downright terrible bf and it's always so OOC because people like to make Steve really angsty. Or the ones that really get me are the ones where Wayne's relationship with STEVE is focused on more than Wayne and Eddie. Half the time it reads like a small but loud chunk steddie of fandom don't even really like Eddie, he's just there out of convenience. I do understand the appeal of that for people who really love Steve but like, it shouldn't come at the expense of Eddie as character. Some of these fics you could easily replace him with other characters and it'd make no difference to the fic. Like I said, totally understand if you don't feel like answering this, I genuinely don't mean to be bitchy cause I don't like yucking peoples yums, but it did feel like I was in the twilight zone for a while seeing people's complaining, so I just wanted to have a little rant 😭

I’m glad to know someone has had the same experience as me! Like I’m not trying to dissuade people from writing Steve centric stuff or even complain, but truly I don’t understand when people say steddie fics are majority Eddie centric. I filtered this down to just the steddie ao3 fics but it’s not even close

And these are just the ones that are tagged. Personally I consider a fic to be Steve centric just based on if it has majority Steve focused tags, like Steve has bad parents, Steve needs a hug, hurt Steve, stuff like that and then it doesn't have any Eddie focused tags. Which is majority of Steddie fics and again I'm not complaining, I'm just saying that's how it is. Also on tumblr, in my experience, I'd say 8 times out of 10 when I come across a steddie fic it's Steve centric. I only notice because I look for Eddie centric stuff personally because there's such a lack of it. That's also why I started to pretty much write only Eddie centric stuff too. But I'm also careful not to erase Steve's trauma or demote him to the stand in perfect boyfriend or erase Robin's role in his life and replace her with Eddie, but I can't say the same with the way majority of Steve centric fics treat Eddie's character.

I think having an issue with the way Steve and Eddie are most often characterized in Steddie fics is a different conversation. I'll be honest, most of what I come across in my opinion is the writer projecting onto Steve and then Eddie's either the perfect boyfriend who talks like a therapist and has a magical healing cock, or he's the worst person in the world just to manufacture Steve angst. I have some major gripes about fanon Steve and fanon Eddie too, I have to steer clear of a lot of fics and keep my mouth shut to avoid discourse. Not saying I have perfect characterization or anything, but I definitely go against a lot of fanon popular stuff. I understand that some people hate popular fanon Eddie (so do I usually lmao) but its clear that it's being projected onto canon Eddie too. I see a lot of Eddie hate from people that ship steddie and that's fine, I'm so used to seeing Eddie hate it doesn't even faze me anymore, but I don't understand how you fixate on a ship that you hate an entire half of.

I'm glad you brought up the Wayne thing because that bothers me so much, I've spoken to a friend who noticed this too. To be clear, I love Wayne and Steve fics, I've written Wayne and Steve fics, but there's a difference when it's a fic about Wayne and Steve developing a familial relationship and when the whole purpose of the fic is Wayne growing closer to Steve than Eddie, choosing Steve over Eddie, loving Steve more than Eddie, etc. Especially when the fic has Eddie as a neglect/abuse survivor, honestly I just think it's weird to write a story where a neglect/abuse survivor's only caretaker is choosing someone else over him, and it's supposed to be a good happy thing? Also when the writer has clear disdain toward Eddie, Idk, maybe take your Eddie-hating lens off for a second and get some perspective on what you're writing. And the crazy thing is, those types of fics are usually received really well. I don't know, it's just not for me.

Anyway, this is the most discourse-y I've ever been on my blog lmao. I'm just at the point where I don't care anymore, everyone's voicing their opinions so I'll voice mine too. Thank you for sending me this, I'm glad I'm not alone in feeling this way!!

[reflections-in-a-critical-eye]

You articulated everything I think about Tae and ARMY in one post in a clear way I definitely couldn't express properly. I do love Tae but he these 2 characteristics of him are getting me down 1) He loves his fans but he also has some amount of disdain for them and 2) His insecurity (also leading to his mimetic tendency as you mentioned).

Regarding point 2, I think he knows that he's arguably the most popular member but I think he also knows that he lacks something he stands out at - JK being the best singer, Jimin and JHope being the best dancers, RM being being the leader and songwriter, Suga being the producer and best rapper. Like Tae is talented of course but he seems to lack the kind of self confidence of someone like Jin, because Jins in the same boat but I don't think he gives a f*ck about not being the most superlative of anything. Jin knows his importance in Bangtan and is comfortable with it.

His mimetic thing - yeah that's pretty noticeable during Run BTS, where he'll copy someone if they get attention. But for me the one that really cemented it was his trail of hobbies. So he used to be really interested in art and that was his thing (similar to RM's love of art) and then he was really into photography for a while (JK was getting videography around the same), then he started practicing boxing (about the time JK started doing that). I mean of course these aren't copyrighted hobbies and maybe you see your friends doing something and you want to get into it - but it really followed a pattern for me where he'd notice a member getting attention for something, adopt that as his latest passion, make a few posts or stories and then lose interest. Like he has genuine ones like golfing or movies but the ones he picks up from the other members are just attention grabbers. Unlike his trolling of ARMY which I think is pretty deliberate, I don't think he's even aware of this pattern of behaviour so even though I don't like it, I'm not too hard on him about it.

The thing he does with fans though makes me side eye him. The name dropping, the lying, the trolling, the fanservice, his backlash to the want of fanservice (dude you're fueling the fire, you can't have it both ways) and his rudeness. No other bangtan member engages in the kind of mind games with their fans like Tae does. He seems to be doing it like a "I'm a wildcard and a loose canon and that makes me adorable but also sexy" way but it's exhausting because his stans take all their cues from him and it just creates this situation where if you don't want to be a so called Tae anti you have to look at what is clearly a Sharpie drawing and pretend it's a tattoo.

His rudeness personally rubs me the wrong way but he's been like that since day 1 with both fans and the other members and it's pretty much a character trait at this point and I've accepted it as such. His particular rudeness towards JK, the only one younger than him was very characteristic of their friendship before and I think that's something that's actually gotten better after they got closer in 2020.

And finally, the name dropping and his love of celebrity. The schmoozing and the networking - those are actually useful life skills but I still feel uneasy. Because sometimes I wonder, do you only have friends who are rich and/or famous? Is the reason your dynamics with the other members in Bangtan - the thing I like most about you - so good because they're "equal" to you? His comfort and happiness schmoozing during fashion week while not greeting fans properly - is it because these fans are just "ordinary" folk? I don't know - maybe it's nothing and I'm projecting - I don't know about this point - if it's really true or not.

Good lord, I've written paras and paras dunking on Tae but I feel there's no space in fandom to express this without being labelled an anti. Despite everything, I do actually still like him (I swear I do), just not as much as before.

I don't want to clog your blog with too much Tae discourse if that's not something you're comfortable with so feel free to not post this. I just felt everything you wrote very strongly and just wanted to give you my view too. Thanks for reading if you made it this far and thanks for your blog - I enjoy reading it a lot 😊.

I think I'm going to wrap up the Tae talks for today with your ask, anon. And that is because you provided the examples that basically support everything I said in that post. I won't elaborate too much on that.

But I will say, I do think he's the most celebrity-like in the entire group, followed by Hobi (but his style is different). I think he enjoys his status and he doesn't hide it. Of course networking is essential, but usually, one can spot a social climber when they see one. He's taking advantage of what he can. He said he's a people person and how he was also surrounded by those who were only interested in his status, but I can't help but wonder if he's not doing the same thing, just at a different level. Yes, he's famous and he's part of this supergroup, but you only have to pay attention to the people he surrounds himself with. Do I get bad vibes from it? Maybe, but it's just vibes.

If public personal associations with chabeols and the like is his thing and then others are dragged into it, then what can I say? I just observe. He's not the first and only and certainly not the last. The businesses are connected but army still believes the Hybe/BH are different, lol. They gush at Samsung and Hyundai commercials because they boys are cute, while ignoring others, ones that tell stories, but not for kindergarten army. Mind you, the company has partnered with those people for a long time, including Bang Bang Con and the recent concert in Busan. No shocker there. But it just shows a very specific elitist social group. Random bbq restaurants in Seoul are a far cry from luxury hotels to make tiktok directorial/editing/acting debuts, but I guess it's called being open to various experiences. And that comes with baggage. But fans are too focused on believing it's a product of hot sex post Qatar flight so they don't see the forest for the trees.

So if media is making up dating rumors, you post Ugh lyrics on twitter, but the reckless gesture is fixed in a few hours. If someone is posting private photos of you and a girl with threats of releasing nudes which end up being photos in a bathtub of said girl, you keep your mouth shut cause you don't want to be rejected by your crazy fans if they find out you have sex as a 28 year old man. But it's fine. Priorities. The gay-sex-during-award-show-breaks squad is here to the rescue because they all know photoshop and gaslighting. If RM has army right behind him when he says so, then Tae has the lunatics and shippers at his 5 min live call. Which then again, may be irrelevant for others and not a deal breaker, while for some it leaves a bad taste in their mouth.

And within all this, we're supposed to see him as relatable and cute and nothing that he ever does can be questioned. If he follows someone on IG, his stans are saying the poor baby made a mistake and fell asleep. He is without fault and the double standards are everywhere. He's the most protected and excused member in the entire group, while others get thrown under the bus for far less. But this is one of the most sensitive topics in this fandom, especially because it's close to opening other doors and people don't wanna go there. Time will tell and once they are not the hottest shit anymore and they'll find themselves in their 30s and 40s, it will be much more evident.

That's all I'm going to say for now. I don't write posts for sensitive fans and I'm sort of done with beating around the bush. Because I've been nice and polite and gave him and the other stuff the benefit of the doubt and I found a shit ton of excuses. But no more. I made my point and I stand by it.

[hils79]

Shipper Tag Game

Tagged by @kholran and @killerandhealerqueen. Sorry this is so late.

What ship were you completely obsessed with when you were a teenager, but now you don't care about anymore?

My first ever Buffy fic was originally supposed to be Buffy/Angel. Then I decided Buffy/Spike was a far more interesting dynamic (this was back way before it became canon) and I never looked back.

2. Which ship would you consider your first one?

I always say it was Buffy/Spike because that was the first ship I wrote. But if you want to go waaaaay back to when Hils was very small it was probably Scott/Charlene in Neighbours.

3. Your first fanfic was about which couple?

Oh dear I've already answered this. Yeah, it was Buffy/Spike

4. Do you remember the first couple you saw fanart of?

Weirdly I think it was Jack/Norrington from Pirates of the Caribbean. My time in the Buffy fandom was mostly spent on mailing lists and forums which didn't really have fanart functionality.

5. Have you ever gotten into ship discourse?

I don't think so but I have definitely bitched among my friends about ships that I don't like. Which is how it should be. Keep your discourse private and let people do what they want.

6. Did you use to have any NOTP or have one currently?

I do but I'm not going to talk about them here for the above reasons. I'm sure some of you know what they are.

7. Who were the couple in the last fanfic you read?

I'm currently halfway through a KinnPorsche fic which I really need to finish but I've been distracted by reading books.

Wait, no, that's a lie. I've been reading a stack of Ateez RPF on my phone during my lunch breaks. I think the last one I read was San/Seonghwa (which isn't really a pairing of mine but I love the author so I read everything they had written)

8. Currently, do you have any OTPs?

Iron Triangle and HeiHua

9. Is there any couple that, to this day, you are extremely mad about not getting together?

Not really. Quite often I lose interest in a ship once it becomes canon (unless it's a BL drama)

10. Is there any ship you used to dislike but now you think they are kind of interesting?

I wouldn't say dislike but it took me way longer than everyone else to get into HeiHua. I only really started reading them after the movie came out.

11. Do you have any ship that, in the past, would've been considered normal but now you would be cancelled over?

I mean Buffy/Spike was toxic as fuck once it became canon. And there's a rarepair I used to write which is actually super gross now that I think about it. I'll say no more on that.

12. What is your favorite crack ship?

I don't know if I have one? What's the difference between a crack ship and a rarepair?

13. What is the couple you read the most fanfics about?

Either Buffy/Spike or Dean/Castiel

14. What do most of your ships usually have in common?

PINING

15. What you absolutely hate in a ship?

Lack of communication and leaping to assumptions. I really hate 'oh no the object of my desire talked to another person they must be in love with them'

I tag: @pangzi @strandedchesspiece @thesilversun @silver-colour @forerussake aand whoever else wants to play.

Just FYI I've been tagged in a whole bunch of stuff recently (and not so recently) so I'm slowly trying to finally answer them. Apologies for the upcoming spam I'll try and spread them out a bit

[forerussake]

Shipper tag game

I was tagged by @dual-domination :DDD thanks!

What ship were you completely obsessed with when you were a teenager, but now you don't care about anymore?

Okay so this whole tag game is gonna be interesting, bc i'm not actually that much of a shipper. I don't really care about shipping for the shipping itself, if that makes sense. I care about the characters and their dynamic, and ships can be interesting for what the characters may or may not bring to each other. Anyway, that was all meant to preface that I don't remember if I really strongly shipped anything when I was a teenager... At the very least I don't think there's one I don't care about anymore. Most of the things I shipped as a teen would have been tolkien ships, and I still carry a great fondness for those even if I'm not an active creator in that fandom atm.

2. Which ship would you consider your first one?

As said above, likely something Tolkien-related?? Maybe Glorestor? I remember reading fics about them but I don't remember actively shipping them. Perhaps Finarfin/Eärwen, that is the earliest ship I remember caring about in a way that I might consider shippy??

3. Your first fanfic was about which couple?

Neither the first fanfic I ever attempted to write (sth about Legolas that I wrote with pen on paper when I was like 10) nor the first serious unfinished attempt (about Thranduil taking up the crown in the aftermath of his father's death) nor the first one I ever published (The Last Son, a character study about Finarfin) are about couples at all... My first one that is about a couple though is Broken, about Turgon and Elenwë, but that is not 'shippy' at all.

4. Do you remember the first couple you saw fanart of?

In Tolkien fandom circles, that will probably have been sth like Gigolas or maybe Glorestor, but I don't remember. The first I have active memory of is Angbang :D

5. Have you ever gotten into ship discourse?

No. I try to stay far away from that...

6. Did you use to have any NOTP or have one currently?

Maybe? There's definitely ships I don't care about, even ones that the rest of the fandom is all about, but there's very few ships I actively avoid. The only thing I actively filter out of my AO3 searches atm is anything that ships Ye Zun and Shen Wei together. That's just not for me... But that is what we have the exclude tags button for, so others can enjoy what they enjoy and you can too :) I also avoid the Pingxie tag like the plague, bc I've seen one too many people in the fandom have bad opinions, but I wouldn't call them a NOTP. It's more a 'missing a third party (namely Pangzi)' kinda deal for me xD

7. Who were the couple in the last fanfic you read?

My mind immediately went to Weilan, but then I remembered that actually it's Zhubai <3 Both are a very likely answer to this question at any given moment.

8. Currently, do you have any OTPs?

See above! Weilan for sure, and definitely also Zhubai (and the extended polycule in the whole of and i will make a silence for you, for which I am eternally grateful to mumble and Sam) <333

9. Is there any couple that, to this day, you are extremely mad about not getting together?

No. As I said before, I'm not really a shipper. I don't consume media in that way. The story is the story, I don't see a reason to get mad about it. If you're unhappy with canon, you throw it in the trash and start writing AU fanfiction. It's not that deep.

10. Is there any ship you used to dislike but now you think they are kind of interesting?

Nah.

11. Do you have any ship that, in the past, would've been considered normal but now you would be cancelled over?

Idk, I suppose some people these days would cancel me over my RPF ships? I've also read a lot of Tolkien fanfic back in the day with ships that the modern purity-police would probably like to put me on a stake over (Celegorm/Curufin(/Finrod), maybe Silverfisting (when we still had the collective guts to call it that) and such.) Look, I was there for all the Yuri On Ice ship wars (that I didn't participate in, mind you), don't @ me with your anti bullshit. Fiction is fiction. Reality is reality. Go touch some grass.

12. What is your favorite crack ship?

I don't think I have one. Crack is not my fanfic genre.

13. What is the couple you read the most fanfics about?

Weilan probably ranks high by now, as does Zhubai. I've read a lot of Silverfisting and Curufin/Finrod in my day. I've read everything that was in the Finarfin/Eärwen tag up until a couple years ago, but that is a rarepair (even though it's canon... that's what you get when your OTP are only mentioned by name 3 times in the whole entire book). Xiyao and Nielan and 3zun are probably high on the list as well. I don't know who wins it, bc I only started keeping track of my reading habits with bookmarks in the past couple years so I have almost no data about the amount of fic I read before my Guardian days.

14. What do most of your ships usually have in common?

Uuhm, often there's something potentially fucked up about the dynamic. Some friction. A certain level of codependency or otherwise unhealthy attachment is interesting to me (how do they work through that? can they?). Most important though is just the deep affection they have for each other. I'm really big on like, choice and consent and free will. When characters could've chosen to part, and it might have even been easier for them to try and let go, but they decide the pain is worth it and they want to work on themselves and the relationship to make it work? When they love each other so much it dwarfs all else, but they still make the active choice to be vulnerable and share that love? That's my jam :)

15. What you absolutely hate in a ship?

Why do we have to end on a negative :(((( hhhm, okay i guess the lack of the above. I hate the soulmate trope with a passion, because so often it erases the element of choice from a relationship. "These characters were meant to be together" okay that's cute but do they want to be? I dislike it when a ship is written in such a way (either by the canon author or by fans) that it takes away the agency from the characters. I'm all for characters living for each other, but there must be meaning behind it. It can't just be fate. It has to be choice. For that matter, when a fandom collectively decides one ship is the way to go and all else is wrong and sucks, that is when I jump ship, because that ship is sinking.

Thanks again for tagging me, this was fun!

Tagging: @pangzi @lucientelrunya @programmedradly @the-marron @lunarriviera @scaredysap @mjsakurea @elenothar @lynne-monstr @aredhel-of-doylkien @thedaughterofshadows if you want to <3

[outrunningthedark]

Like Buck, Shannon and Eddie would not be besties, so definitely agree with your take there. Truly if Shannon had lived and been featured a bit longer then it would have been her and Eddie trying to navigate the divorce and because you can’t have a Ryan Murphy show without drama it probably would have resulted in some other implosion, and I just don’t think Shannon was going to get to the point of being the mother that Chris needed and Eddie’s co-parent. So by extension Buck would of course be firmly supporting Eddie and Chris….legit he would be cordial at most to Shannon.

Bless you for seeing the bigger picture. <3 I think most of us can admit that the sudden focus on Eddie + Shannon's relationship in 6B was because, at the time that plan was decided on, the fate of the show still hung in the balance. Ofc Eddie has to look back on his relationship with fondness (*gag*) to show that he's looking for that "spark" again, that instant connection. And, agree with it or not - most don't - the show wanted him to feel optimistic after seeing Marisol again, which is a direct contrast to Bobby having to talk him into reaching out to Ana. (Another example of KR & co. changing the smallest of details to make it seem like this next time was meant to go differently...) But had Shannon lived? She would have gotten the same treatment as the other "outsider" parents until (as we saw in 6B) the story had to reach a conclusion. Tim has previously said that killing Shannon off allowed the writing staff to explore more of Eddie's story (the fighting arc, Buddie conflict, confessing to Bobby and the one therapy scene in 3A). This, along with the negative fan reaction that could have been swayed had she started to change by the end of the season, should have made it evident by now that there was no intention of making Shannon a better parent, or a better friend to Eddie, anytime soon. There's no drama in that. I have noticed that people get my feelings on Shannon twisted a lot (probably on purpose because I'm so disliked for...talking about my disability? ig?), but I think her characterization is good for tv. If you don't like her it's because you can recognize that she was written to be a bad mom. And those bad moms are walking among you irl! Some even live in the houses of people you know even if those people aren't telling you about it! For me and the handful of us who have actually experienced the type of upbringing this fandom saw on screen (*waves*) - and if we can be real about it, Tim went easy on her and Chris because it's a family show - the problem (the "discourse") occurs when people are earnestly co-signing her behavior because "shit, I'd probably leave, too" or repeating ableist opinions about how hard disability on the mother, *especially* while dragging parents for not understanding issues they can more easily relate to. (Yeah, we see all of it.) TL;DR Representation does not have to be positive for it to matter. It just needs to be real. And even if that reality only connects with one person, it still matters. Everyone has a story and no two stories are the same.

[deepbutdazzlingdarkness]

I think @kennyomegasweave tagged me in this OTP meme like...months ago? And I just found it half-finished in my drafts and decided to actually get it done.

1. What ship were you completely obsessed with when you were a teenager, but now you don't care anymore? 20s, not my teens, but I used to be utterly obsessed with Jack/Kent from Check Please and now, IDEK what happened. I still love them, but I have old fic I saved and never read and can't bring myself to care anymore. IDK it makes me sad.

2. Which ship would you consider your first one? Hmm probably Betsy/Joe from the Betsy Tacy series or Anne/Gilbert from Anne of Green Gables? My first ships when I actually got into fandom were Sawyer/Kate and Sara/Grissom from CSI.

3. Your first fanfic belonged to which couple? Magnus/Alec!!! I never thought I would write fic and then I watched season 1 of Shadowhunters and banged out (lol) 7 fics and almost 30k of porn in less than 2 months in 2016. They all have an insane number of hits (like. the highest has 54,878 hits and the lowest has 15,836 hits.........) and I still get kudos on them almost every day, it's wild.

4. Do you remember the first couple you saw a fanart over? Genuinely no idea, but the first one in my fan art tag is Katniss/Peeta from 2012 <3

5. Did you ever get into ship discourse? My first instinct whenever I see someone talk about something I don't like is to mute/block, so perhaps not actively, but I'm sure I have at some point.

6. Did you used to have any no-otp or have it currently? LOL. Yes. I still fucking HATE Jack/Kate from Lost and always will. Also Dan/Blair from Gossip Girl. Lately...I'm such a multi-shipper but I gotta say Kate/Anthony from Bridgerton bc I've genuinely had to restrain myself from bitching about how much I hate them SO many times since s3 came out lol.

7. Who were the couple in the last fanfic you read? I finished a rewatch of Beyond Evil last night so I've been rereading some of my old bookmarks bc I've read almost everything that's out there 😔. Shout out to the masterpiece simple & clean by whir.

8. Currently, do you have any OTPs? So many!!! Taemin/Kai is still my #1, but also Juwon/Dongsik from Beyond Evil, PatPran from Bad Buddy (it took me several episodes to actually get into the show but once I did I cried...so much over them and how much they love each other LOL), KunTen from WayV, Louis/Lestat...I feel kinda bad that I don't have a major current f/f OTP but I'm literally checking my kpop tags multiple times a week for rule 63 fic and most of my current WIPs are rule 63 f/f so there's that. (Two KunTen including what hopefully is gonna be a long one, plus a Jigyu I started yesterday for a fest that I'm hoping I'll be able to get done - not because of the length, but because I've never written Seventeen before)

9. Is there any couple that, to this day, you are extremely mad about not getting together? So many??? I feel like I have to say Dean/Cas.......Lee/Kara never really got together so them for sure. Sawyer/Kate from Lost even though I 100% choose to believe they got together post-canon pre-flash-sideways. Oh my god I'm looking through my "forever bitter" tag and it's a lot of Cooper/Audrey from Twin Peaks as I expected, but I forgot about Mini/Franky from Skins. and ABSOLUTELY THEM. Everything about series 5 was terrible but that especially.

10. Is there any ship you used to dislike but now you think they are kind of interesting? IDK I feel like I don't usually change my mind like that. I wouldn't go as far as saying "kind of interesting" but I guess I don't hate Bree/Roger from Outlander AS much on the show as I did in the books lol.

11. Do you have any ship that, in the past, was considered normal but now you would be cancelled over? Hmm...Cesare/Lucrezia maybe? If not them almost definitely Norma/Dylan from Bates Motel LOL.

12. What was your favorite crack ship? I was gonna say I couldn't remember any that truly fit this definition, but then I remembered the Kent Parson/Claude Giroux series #dirtbags and that was great. Actually no my real answer is Syd/Richie from The Bear. Now *I* don't think it's a crackship but they have that vibe.

13. Who is the couple you read more fanfics of? Here's a side by side view of my most bookmarked ships vs the tags I have saved rn on my front page. Unfortunately you can only have 20 but I think it's a pretty good representation. (Other than the ENHA ship, where I legit don't know anything about them or frankly even what they look like, but that tag produces so much incredible unhinged porn that I read canon-blind.)

14. What most of your ships usually have in common? I feel like I have several different ~types, but: friends to lovers, I LOVE bicker-y couples, age gap relationships, especially when one of them is a mentor-ish figure, and power dynamics in general.

15. What do you absolutely hate in a ship? Nice Guy characters, whether they're a guy or a girl. The OG example is Xander (duh) and Chloe from Smallville but you also see it with characters like Sol on My Stand In...there's def more things I hate but that's one of most major ones for me.

[finelinens1994]

is there a difference between proshippers and anti-censorship people? or is it just the same word repackaged with a different connotation /genq

i wasn't completely sure so i decided to look around and find an actual definition of "pro-shipper" (under the cut), and it seems to support similar ideas. from my understanding "pro-ship" as an identifier was only made as a response to the "anti-ship" movement which started in the last decade or so, and believes the material a person finds compelling in fiction is a direct reflection of (and directly influences) their real-life behaviors seemingly without any exceptions. essentially, "pro-ship" seems to be an expanded-upon version of the "ship and let ship" phrase. so i think "pro-ship" can certainly fall under the umbrella of anti-censorship, but it isn't necessarily always the same thing as i'm sure there are varying opinions of what exactly "pro-ship" means to each person who identifies with it.

it's not a term i identify with because i don't care to directly involve myself in any kind of debate about the subject. anti-censorship is more my jam, and "pro-ship" is more specialized to fandom. which is definitely interesting in itself! but the discourse (which often results in people telling others to kill themselves/go to jail/get killed for their fictional interests) has infected most fandoms like a plague. so it's just depressing haha, but hard to avoid at times.

(from SamAburime on twitter, wrote the article cited)

[itsasweater]

HSMTMTS thoughts before season 4 pt. 2

So this is my second part after my re-watch of season 1 through 3 before the final season airs. After giving my thoughts on the seasons in general I thought I would talk about the ships on the show since a lot of new content dropped. The discourse has been interesting to say the least lol

Warning!!! I am going to be brutally honest about the ships on the show because I don't mind discussion, discourse or pushback. I'm not going to put any anti tags because I think the fandom could use some brutal honesty right now, especially with the severe lack of media literacy when it comes to this show and it's ships.

Rini (Ricky and Nini or is it Nina lol):

So I would categorize them as a typical Disney ship, pretty cookie cutter and unoriginal. It's the typical relationship that was formed because of childhood and growing up together. This type of pairing has been done before and will certainly be done again. So for a new show it is understandable to promote this relationship to bring in the audience.

During season 1, the show placed a lot of easter eggs that would forecast the downfall of this relationship, re-watching season 1 definitely helped me catch more of them. As curtsies-from-princess-ashlyn pointed out, throughout season 1 Ricky is looking for comfort and emotional support from Nini but he doesn't get that from her because she doesn't understand what he is going through when it comes to his home life with his parents. Obviously Ricky spends the first half of season 1 trying to get Nini back with her not giving him the time of day, until the homecoming episode changes everything for him because of a certain new girl (Gina). He kind of forgets about Nini while building this new relationship, a relationship that both Nini and EJ notice. The show eventually has Ricky and Nini come back to each other towards the end of the season 1. The thing that stands out to me the most is that in order for them to be put back together, they literally had to remove Gina from an episode for it to happen. Shows tend to do this a lot, when they want a certain pairing together they remove another character so that the pairing can stand alone without any competition in the scenes. But to me this is something that always makes me go hmmmmm you had to remove a character and stop total interaction in order for this pairing to get back together. Ricky and Nini have the moment in the finale where he confesses to her bringing up all these moments from childhood and bam end of season. I think a major reason why that confession scene did nothing for me is that he mentions all these moments that he has had with her from their childhood and we the audience didn't see any of it so it kind of falls flat. How am I supposed to be invested in that speech when I didn't see those moments. I also think putting them back together just regressed their characters. I always have a hard time watching that scene because the acting was just off, I think it was mentioned that they let Josh improvise it and maybe they shouldn't have.

Season 2 starts with Rini back together and in the very first episode Ricky looks directly at the camera and says that him and Nini are never breaking up ever again lol. I don't know if needing media literacy is necessary for that line because the show is spelling it out for the audience foreshadowing that they are going to be over again. That line was not a mistake, it was telling the audience to be prepared. Nini starts the season by not being truthful to Ricky about leaving and going to YAC until she just blurts it out with everyone around. The communication with these two has just always been non existent. Nini doesn't even know that Ricky moved, she goes to his old house yet Gina knows his new address, that's another thing that made me go hmmmm and wonder. Nini starts feeling held back by Ricky and that he doesn't like/love her for the right reasons, which makes her write the Rose song that is clearly about Ricky even though she denies it when he asks her. Ricky gets all excited when Nini comes back and thinks she came back for him but in a brutal way tells him that she didn't. She was already off the bus when he called. Where having media literacy comes into play is understanding that with everything else in Ricky's life changing which is something that he hates, his relationship with Nini and Nini herself represents something the same. He clings on to Nini because he wants at least something to be the same and not change like everything else in his life, which is unfair too Nini. Midway through the season they break up with Ricky initiating it with him saying he doesn't like who he is/becoming while with Nini. The breakup scene was honestly done really well. Obviously the relationship was needed in the end so that the characters could grow and understand what they actually want.

It surprises me how many people in the fandom still cling to this relationship because they were truly miserable with each other during season 2. If you truly cared about the characters you would not want them back together, they clearly outgrew each other and just didn't work anymore. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised though that people still cling to them because of the weird Jolivia stuff that I still see. Liking Rini and wanting them back just seems to be a cover for Jolivia's, like seriously people.

Lastly, people in the fandom like to say that if Olivia didn't leave the show or that if the drama didn't happen Rini would have been endgame yet season 2 was already written before all of that. Like I said at the start, the easter eggs were already planted in season 1 for the downfall of the relationship. I certainly think Rini was definitely endgame if the show was a limited series having only 1 season because of how season 1 ended with them together, they couldn't end it on a cliffhanger with no resolution. They did not know if they were going to be picked up for another season, once they did, they were able to go in the direction they wanted too.

I was planning on going over all of the ships in one post but by the time I finished my thoughts on Rini it was already too long lol so I might just do a post everyday leading up to the new season on the other ships.

Thanks for reading if you did! If you just read the title, thank you!