#like. dean’s whole character is literally supporting and caring for Sam

[420technoblazeit]

spn characters and whether or not id let them hit it

he has daddy issues and my girlcock boypussy could make him worse. bbgirl when im done with u youll have a whole new set of sexuality issues i prommy

yes but only if it's early show cas when he actually kicked ass instead of just autistic infodumping and being in love with dean

nah im good

OUGH. smash and idc if he'd try to buy my soul afterwards. bb you could suck my soul DRY if you wa- [GUNSHOT]

kind of a milf. reblog

i let him hit it bc he makes cartoon noises during sex. boioioioioinggg

lmao no he was literally an ap student. fuckign nerd

YES in both forms. i can think of one use for those lightning powers

i have daddy issues but this is different this is literally my dad i could never

i let her hit it because she's silly quirky fr let's have minecraft sex bb

she'd probably try and kill me for a spell and id let her

jesus christ. let's get down and dirty in purgatory

kind of a milf but idk. stop hanging out with those british guys and then we can talk

yes but only when he was possessing cas i will not elaborate <3

tbh she's so hot i dont even care that she's british SMASH

once again this is literally just my mom. no

i feel like he'd play cbat idk. depends on whether or not i can get a pair of good quality earplugs

call me dean winchester because bbgirl your profound sense of melancholy is so attractive to me

it's giving me hives just looking at him he's so incredibly british EUGH

she was evil or whatever but i support it. sam had a point here id open the gates of hell for her too

i dont think i could fit my dick with the massive stick he has up his ass. happy for him and adam though <3

the lobotomy thing was kind of a red flag. sorry.

id blue ball him

[angelsdean]

ok ok finally watched the last half of the ep and !! many thoughts. another moment where a character is trapped in a room thinking they’re gonna die while someone is banging on the door trying to get in. john figuring out how to loophole his fate !!! like hello hello. 

but thennn. there’s another little thread throughout this ep I caught on and haven’t seen many talking about, which ties into last week’s ep where John and Mary decided to “live with the consequences” of their life or death heat of the moment kiss because they do not !! want !! to sweep it under the rug !! they WANT to acknowledge and confront that thing that happened when they thought they were gonna die in that room where there was no way out (literally despair parallels be louder) 

So this ep we see them navigating their new relationship after acknowledging that they want to live with the consequences of their life-or-death kiss. And one of the central “issues” (small but there) throughout this ep is them sneaking around, trying to keep their relationship a secret, one of the main reasons for this being Mary (Dean’s mirror) is concerned that having the others know will change the group dynamics. so, lets just look at this with some destiel goggles on for a second. 

Say, Dean gets Cas back and they decide to acknowledge Cas’s love confession. Because Dean wants to live with the consequences of it. And say, Dean, like Mary, ends up reciprocating (Mary kisses John at the end of last week’s ep and tells him she wants to be with him and ‘live in the moment’). And okay! Now they’re together. But it’s still secret! Because maybe Dean’s scared or anxious abt telling other people. Maybe he’s worried them knowing will change things. especially thinking abt team free will and their group dynamics. Like, how will Sam and Jack react ? will they care? will it be an issue? like, even if Dean’s pretty sure they’ll be accepting, this is still new! He’s never done this before, not really. And not talking about a relationship with a man, but a steady long-term relationship that he can really see lasting. Like this is IT for him. 

Anyways, so we see Mary and John sneak around the whole episode until finally the cat’s out of the bag. Carlos and Lata find out and they are incredibly supportive and excited for their friends. And then this is Mary and John’s closing conversation. Destiel goggles back on, Mary is Dean, John is Cas (sorry Cas): 

John: So now that everyone knows? No more hiding, right? Mary: Yeah, the cat is definitely out of the bag. John: Do you think the group dynamic's gonna change? Mary: I don't know. But we're stronger together, with no secrets. And, I don't mind getting out of the moment thinking about the future as long as I know you're in the picture. John: Hope looks good on you, Campbell.

SO. No more secrets. Dean’s ready to think about the future, as long as Cas is with him. Hope looks good on Dean. HI. HELLO. 

And thennn they go out on a proper date. A very Dean-style date, if you ask me: 

Mary: Okay, so, how 'bout dinner and a movie. But it's your treat since you scared the hell outta me.

(like. dean is LITERALLY narrating this story. he is telling it to us, do not think for a minute his narration is not being influenced by his own experiences and feelings!) anyways. I feel normal. 

[spn2006]

i’ve decided to commit to blogging about supernatural as if its approximately 2006. i grew up watching this show so much that whenever i think about it, i’m thinking about it with fandom goggles on, where i have the whole show going on in my head at once and have all these already cemented headcanons. but now i’m going back and rewatching it for the first time in years, and honestly i love looking at it with fresh eyes. i like when i don’t know anything that’s gonna happen next, like the show is brand new and exciting, like the queerbaiting hasn’t kicked into full gear, etc. i just get to enjoy and think critically about it like i would any other TV show.

i think, since its a show thats literally 15 seasons long, its easy to forget the earlier seasons of supernatural and thus forget who these characters really are in canon. i love destiel memes and fanfiction and web weaving as much as the next guy but going back and watching the show from the beginning has really reawakened my love for what the show is really about, which is 1) the simultaneously loving and deeply fucked up relationship between sam and dean, and 2) campy horror stories that freak me out and keep me up at night. i think the real reason why kripke era is my favourite (and the only seasons i see as truly canon) is because its the one that gets that vision right. after spn got a new showrunner (and then another after that, and again after that, and again after that…) it just wasnt possible for it to be the same show anymore. so for me im always gonna hold the early seasons near and dear to my heart and engage with them in a way that actually matters to me, and not in this distinctly 2020s post-ironic cringe culture way, where no one wants to admit that they really love this show and is too caught up in shipping and queerbaiting discourse to care about anything else. so this is a long way of saying i want to enjoy my fucked up campy horror show with toxically codependent brothers and their emotional support gay angel in peace

[yaosirius]

I don't want to be rude... why wincest?

Well u mean why I ship wincest?

First of all it’s a show about 2 brothers, the whole 15 seasons, 327 episodes, describing how these two guys support each other fight for each other, and how they sacrifice themselves to save the other. And I gotta say, they are too close for brothers. Normal brothers, they do love each other but they have their own life, instead of bond their life together. Also, romantic love or not, the relationship between them is absolutely unhealthy. Dean died for saving Sam for so many times, he literally cannot survive without his little brother, cuz think about this, Dean has been taking care of Sammy since 4, his whole life and all his value is about hunting(trying to help dad)and looking after Sam, now dad’s missing, the only thing he owns is his brother, Sam is always his first priority that for sure. Sam, see how he react after Dean died(or about to die), season 1 the episode that Dean had heart disease, he really didn’t show much regret about (accidentally) killing that athlete, and he risked Bobby’s life to save his brother (0311). Winchesters’ relationship is really unhealthy, twisted and codependent, they not whole if they lost the other.

(Really, just see how other people react about them, sooo many characters thought they were gay, they even got slash fanfics…)

And,,,yes i don’t ship destiel, no offense but Sam n Dean just love each other too much, like I said Sam is always Dean’s first priority, there’s nothing to beat him, Dean will kill everything if it has threats on Sam.

Lastly, I’m not from western countries I’m from China, incest is taboo here in real life but it is actually accepted by some of us in fanfics, so I’m fine with the fact that wincest means incest.

[tvxcue]

i think it’s really funny how underdeveloped bobby is. one of the few characters that exists in the winchesters’ world consistently and has some kind of significance to their story and he has no real moral center or code for HIMSELF. he’s literally just dean’s yes-man. like his whole hunter origin story is that his wife was possessed and he killed her trying to kill the demon. he’s the one who introduces the winchesters to the fact that possessed people are still THERE, are still alive unless they themselves kill them. and then the winchesters find this fun little knife that allows them to kill demons instead of just exorcising them but that also means they kill the person and what does bobby have to say? nothing. sam uses his powers to kill demons without killing the person being possessed and what does bobby have to say? well dean if you think this is the right call, i guess we’ll just lock him up.

LIKE i don’t even think he would necessarily be against the knife or supportive of sam bc he’s a hunter, he kills “monsters” already, he could see it as being for the best, but there is literally no attempt to work through that. he kills his wife trying to kill the “monster,” he kills his wife again when she comes back from the dead before she can become a “monster.” like bobby is pretty clearly against the monster side of all of this. he literally forces a mother to lock her child away for her entire life just bc the child is a shapeshifter. how often do i talk abt the fact that shapeshifters are not inherently dangerous according the show’s own mythos! they’re literally just people who can change their shape, it is being “monsters” that makes them monstrous, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy, it’s circular, it’s whatever you want to call it but it’s the biggest argument against the show’s premise. and bobby plays right into it and perpetuates it, he doesn’t need to be against all of the shit the winchesters do but the show does not actually care to delve into it. bc bobby is at the end of the day bobby is more a plot device than a character, in the same way his house is more a prop than a setting.

[maipareshaan]

I feel like i wank about this every week but ppl who are hung up on 'narratives' of the show whining about positivity because they do media right by hating the narrative and wanting the correct narrative and hating anyone who doesn't want what they want and hate what they hate then being all #positivity and #silenced and #domediaright when they are vocal pro censorship and harrassers, idiotic, to have no self-awareness about it when whining about how a creator needs to think about and create for your poor mental health bcz the 'narrative' hurts you and only what is good and healthy to you is allowed and how you can't show something and be about something and must be about thing you want.

Literally my problem is the whole positive uwu schtick, nausea inducing idiotic hateblogs who don't even know that's what they are.

And they are so obsessed with how other people are not having positive and supportive feelings for their hurt feelings. It is literally how they fully conduct themselves after the finale. I am not saying the dean crit thing isn't idiotic at times and also you aren't obligated to care, the reactionary whining is just obviously coming from a place of narrative obsession, has nothing to do with fandom when somehow the rules are that character must be decent, like Dean, bcz you can't at all be a bad character stan, you can't like the brother's dynamic, you must want their narrative which is how Dean DESERVES better by breaking free of his duty to Sam to be idek happy free most likely via Destiel.

I mean if i just talk about Destiel, like why are you whining about people too into Castiel's positive independent narrative or Sam's, when all you do is whine about your narrative want, somehow these people get so offended at any s9 wank but will not cannot stop finale wanking, is it not the same thing? Narrative wank? Also can't stop s8 homophobe Sam finale wanking, weird, what a weird way to conduct yourself in fandom and be so not aware of being a wanker with negative feelings who whines about being above the wankers with negative feelings.

[jackklinemybeloved]

You know when a movie has a beloved side character, someone who’s just funny and caring and interesting, and the audience gets really attached to them? Maybe even more than the main character?You know how sometimes that character gets a spin-off or sequel because everyone loves them so much, but it doesn’t work because the reason they were so effective in the original movie was because of how they supported and enhanced the protagonist? You know how sometimes it’s a bad idea to put incredible supporting characters in the main character role because it’s not what they were built for?

Yeah. That’s why shifting the protagonist of Supernatural from Sam to Dean was a bad fucking idea.

[musclesandhammering]

Supernatural Opinions That’ll Have Me Burned At The Stake Pt 1.

• John Winchester is more sympathetic than Dean.

• Literally every single angel in the series (except maybe Ishim) had 100% justifiable and understandable motives, and none of them were genuinely evil.

• The demons deserved 97% more sympathy than they got (yes, all of them) because they were literally tortured into being the way they are.

• The hunters on the show are the real villains. The supernatural creatures were just existing as they instinctually should have.

• There was absolutely no reason to bring Mary back at all, and they 100% only did it to provide Dean specifically with more personal Angst. Because everything’s about Dean.

• They did Bela so so dirty and there was no reason at all that 432 other boring ass characters got storyline after storyline and resurrection after resurrection when she didn’t even get mentioned post-death #1.

• Anything to do with Ben/Lisa/Dean was legit just the most boring thing I’ve ever seen, like I literally skipped past those parts cause I cared 0% about any of that.

• Claire was cool at first but they put everything into making her a mini-Dean and she ended up being a whiny annoying rude trying-too-hard-to-look-badass mess (surprise surprise).

• Alex was way more likeable and interesting than Claire, she should’ve gotten the lead storyline in that arc.

• The whole Claire/Kaia thing was nice from a representation standpoint I guess but there was zero chemistry and only like 2 scenes of lead-up and the entire time I was just thinking “what in the hell are they supposedly falling in love for, this feels so forced” lmao.

• Metatron was my fav even before his big redemptive scene, I stanned one petty weirdo full-stop all the way through his dicking around with Cas and everything, y’all simply do not have Taste.

• Same with Amara. Loved her even when she wanted to destroy the known universe. Stanned her. Supported her, even. And also she had an incredibly heartbreaking and sympathetic and dynamic storyline, but some of y’all couldn’t see the substance in her cause you were too busy being pissed that she flirted with your trash monster (Dean).

• I’m very sorry, but Charlie was annoying as all shit.

• Not only did Dean abuse Cas, but Dean abused Sam literally throughout the entire show, from the very first scene.

• Speaking of Sam, he’s probably the most caring, kind, empathetic, genuinely good person on the entire show. He’s an actual cinnamon roll, and every single person that holds him even 1% accountable for the leaving for college thing, or the demon blood thing, or the not looking for Dean in purgatory thing… y’all can eat my shorts.

• Cas was better friends with Sam than he ever was with Dean. They have more of a profound bond too. He was ordered to rescue Dean from Hell and had an army of other angels with him, but he chose to rescue Sam and went in completely alone. If that’s not more profound idk what is.

• I like Balthazar better than Gabriel, fight me on it.

• Hannah and Cas were actually hella cute together. And so were Cas and Meg.

• The Winchesters did not deserve Crowley. They also didn’t deserve Rowena.

• Sam and Dean aren’t actually heroes at all tbh because 75% of all the major apocalyptic problems that have happened on the show was literally their fault. And they almost never solved said problems themselves. They coerced supernatural beings into doing it for them.

• I liked the angels way better in season 4, when they were terrifying mythical beings of eldritch proportions that even the demons were scared of. Held more gravity, I think.

• After Bobby was killed off, the whole vibe of the show kinda fell apart. Like the team/family feeling was just never quite there after that, and it sorta killed it for me tbh.

• Chuck being a mega douche wasn’t the mind blowing plot twist they thought it was. Like that was predictable. It would’ve been more meta and more unsettling and more profound if, instead of being a raging narcissist, he had been portrayed as they described him in season 4/5- an actual father/creator that was jaded with his creation. He still could’ve been absent and all, just not a total heartless jerk.

• I didn’t even watch half of seasons 7-8 like wow that was not interesting in the slightest.

• Season 2 was also dull as hell, but it gets bonus points for the gritty midwestern horror aesthetic. 10/10 immaculate vibes.

• Anything past season 10 I just picked out the Cas episodes to watch and I didn’t even really love those :/.

• I don’t like how the storylines started getting too big for their britches around season 11 or so. Like purgatory and heaven and hell and the apocalypse, ok sure. But alternate dimensions? Heavenly extinction? God’s literal sister? Babe you’re just a cute lil country show from the CW go back to drunks killing vampires.

• This whole series actually started being trash less than halfway through, and the only reason it stayed on so long was because die-hard fans were invested enough to subject themselves to mental and emotional torture week after week just to stay loyal to their old favourite show.

[restlesshush]

Godstiel vs Angelus vs Casifer

Ever since I saw this very fun post by @trekkiedean several months ago I have had had many thoughts stewing but now I’ve actually seen the Casifer arc I’m actually in a position to lay them out. So:

The big thing that interests me about the idea of Casifer being an attempt to redo Godstiel by making it more Angelus-y, is that as character explorations of the character involved go, Casifer is (on paper) the least interesting but arguably the most love interest-y. On the surface, it sounds like trying to have another go at a very interesting concept (Godstiel) by making it more like a slightly less interesting concept (Angelus) resulting in an even less interesting concept (Casifer). Except, of course, that’s not actually quite what’s going on because this isn’t about Cas in his own right.

The optimal Godstiel (or, indeed, Dark Willow) arc (an exploration of how the character’s traits manifest in an extreme situation designed to bring out the worst in them) would be a more interesting piece of character analysis than the optimal Angelus arc (all of the dark impulses of the character, with no agency from their regular self), which would be a more interesting piece of character analysis than the optimal Casifer arc (where aside from having the opportunity to explore the reasons the character would put themselves in this situation, it’s literally just some other guy). However, the thing is that while character analysis of Cas is ostensibly sort of the point of Godstiel (in order to justify killing him off) as Cas and Angel are both supporting characters, they are really not the focus for Casifer and (btvs s2) Angelus in their own right. I do think it’s informative to touch on, but they’re not really what we should be comparing in order to look at what the story’s trying to do with them, especially not for a show as pathologically protagonist-focussed as spn.

What we should be looking at instead, is comparing the ways in which Angelus and Casifer are designed to impact our leads, so Buffy and Dean respectively. An ideal godstiel arc has to have Cas as the focus, so by default isn’t going to be (and shouldn’t be) tailored around the effect on Dean in the way that btvs s2 Angelus is re Buffy. Casifer kind of falls in a middle ground, because purpose-wise, it is also a way to facilitate having Lucifer around again (not that there couldn’t also be other ways), and unlike Angelus where torturing Buffy (although also in the process her friends) is his whole raison d’être, Lucifer really doesn’t give a shit about Dean. However, in the season where Dean is suddenly strikingly nicer to Cas again it is definitely worth looking at the plausible story logic behind Casifer through the lens of what it shows about Cas and Dean’s relationship, and the primary function it seems to serve on a character level is simply damselling Cas.

Angelus instead is all about the ways this relationship gone bad hurts Buffy, while Angel himself is entirely absent (because yeah, schoolgirl, your boyfriend is dead). Buffy’s feelings about Angel serve no practical function anymore, they only make it more difficult for her to do what needs to be done. They’re also not new information for us: we know Buffy loved Angel, that’s why this happened plot-wise, and why we care as an audience. On the other hand – in contrast to Angelus which does still tell us things about Angel and also the rest of the Scoobies – the main thing Casifer does on a character level, is give opportunities to show that Dean cares about Cas and avoiding him being hurt, to an extent that goes both beyond practicality (Dean, why saving Cas step 0 in your apocalypse-stopping plan when it’s not even necessary?), and beyond the way other characters feel (“it’s not an ‘it’, Sam, it’s Cas”). Aside from briefly touching on Cas’s horrifically low self-worth, it is simply all about Dean’s focus on Cas’s well-being, which I find particularly fun to run through the lens of this illuminating post by @autisticandroids. Just as much as the Angelus arc, the Casifer arc is one that it makes most sense to give to a love interest, but specifically when you, the spn writers’ room, are looking at the relationship through the perspective of the male other party. What if not only was someone evil wearing your beloved’s face, but you also had to rescue your beloved from them?? Delicious.

Anyway, I love it when spn does things that won’t allow me to parse Cas as anything other than Dean’s love interest, and the Casifer arc thoroughly does that for me. This is strengthened not only by the parallels with the Angelus arc, but specifically by the effects of the fact that in contrast to Angel, Cas isn’t dead – Dean can still try to help him. And then most entertainingly the fact that the Casifer arc is less conducive to interesting character work otherwise, means cementing Cas’s position as at the very least someone Dean cares immensely about, but really as his love interest, is absolutely the primary thing it’s doing on that score.

[shatteredatthealtarofwinchester]

Umm, wait. It's more a 15x20 rant than an analysis. I'll call it... a ranalysis. 😏

I just saw J*reds last online panel again, where he called the finale "magical full circle storytelling". 15x20 is his "favourite episode ever" because he "is a fan of good storytelling". Uh-huh... Okay. So the following just was built on pure rage. This makes it more of a rant than an analysis. As usual. You guys know me.

Well. There are various possibilities here, Jared. Possibility A is, you are lying, what I do not believe. To lie that obvious you have to be a talented actor, which you are not. Possibility B is, you really think that way. You believe, the finale was "magical full circle storytelling" and you actually loved it, it was indeed your favourite episode. This again brings me to the only conclusion: You have no fucking idea about good storytelling, not even decent storytelling.

Lets look at every single ending, shall we?

Dean. We all know you think Deans death was a "success story." You think that Dean "ultimately gave his life for his number one on planet." I am sitting here, laughing in pain. First of all, let me say that Dean didn't died for Sam, Jared. He didn't took a bullet for Sam or sacrificed himself or whatsoever. He died in the most ridiculous accident I've ever seen. But lets go back to the very start.

Dean’s childhood was highly abusive. Dean was 4 years old when he saw his mother burning alive and learned that monsters are real. In that age he developed PTSD and stopped talking. Dean had a childhood with a father that was an alcoholic and physically and mentally abusive, who had believed that Dean had a “killer instinct". When Dean was about 6 years old, John forced him into a nurturing role for Sam. In the same age Dean was forced into the soldiers role as well when John taught him how to shoot and hunt. Dean had to obey orders without questioning. If he acted “out of line,” (aka something John didn’t like) John chewed him out or left them alone. Dean was trained to be Daddy’s blunt instrument. Dean gave up his own life to keep Sam safe, because he had no other choice. More than a brother Dean had to be a father and a mother to Sam. He suppressed everything, every psychological pain, every emotion, he just lived to protect Sam and to obey as Johns blunt soldier. Short: Dean gave up HIMSELF for Sam and John. Not because Dean wanted to, because he was forced into it! Dean hated himself, he was suicidal. He was convinced he isn’t worthy of anything, especially not being loved. Dean never had a life for his own, never had a choice, never had a chance, never had own original thoughts, never felt safe or loved. He was used to being left. He felt like he was nothing. Worthless. He was dead inside. Broken. You get what I mean, Jared? Since you own a mental health campaign, you should. And guess what Dean did? He kept fighting. Despite everything, he kept fighting. And his mindset slowly changed. He understood that his father was an abusive bastard, he unterstood that he was forced into a life he never wanted. He understood that he is more than that, that he is not like John. He changed. He opened up. He even wanted to retire. And now it gets interesting, because something happened that REALLY is the start of magical full circle storytelling. Something in Deans mind clicked while Cas' confession. His confession was fundamental to Dean to finally accept his own goodness and the value of his life and love, of his identity. It was the moment of breaking free of the structure that had controlled and corrupted him his entire life. It was the only way out of his abusive and traumatizing cage to experience something for his own the very first time. For the first time in his life he had a chance. A choice. The start of his very own life. Free will, baby! Well, no. Because exactly in that moment he stumbled into a nail and died. Do you even realize how dumb this is? Do you even realize what you did? Wait, it gets worse. Yeah, that's possible, even if you dont believe it. In heaven he goes right back to the life he has spent his whole journey learning to free himself from: Left only with the persons he had been forced, time and time again, to sacrifice his identity, goals, and soul for. None of the family, support, or love, nothing he has built or chosen for himself remains. This is not magical full circle storytelling, Jared. This is abysmal pointless butchering. This has NOTHING, not a single percent of magical or good storytelling! YOU call that magical? YOU call that a success? Seriously, what shit are you on? If it would've been full circle storytelling, there is not one single fucking possibility that Dean would've died in the end. I don't know whats going on in your twisted brain, but Deans death never was and never will be a success. To make it magical full circle storytelling, he MUST have been the one who survives and overcomes his trauma (and raise a certain someone from perdition.)

Sam. He's actually the one who kinda got the best ending, huh? I mean, it was fucking horrific, but it was the best if you compare it to the others. When Sam was young, he wanted a normal life far away from hunting, while the truth is, Sam always was more like John than Dean ever will be. Over time his mindset clearly changed. He even said: "When Dean came to get me at school, I told myself, one last job, you know, (...) it was always one more job and then I was gonna go back to law and to my life. I guess, I really understand now that THIS is my life. And I love it." Sam couldn't imagine a normal life anymore. He had the chances for that and he declined. He loved hunting. He loved working and making progress with the BMOL, he very much enjoyed being a MOL and even took the lead often. I can clearly picture Sam as the lead of a rebuilt version of the MOL, that would've made sense. What did Sam get? Right, the ending he didn't wanted anymore, but since we yeet every single development of every single character out of the window, Sam has to be Season 1 Sam again, BUT with a fancy party wig! And there he is! And what a happy life he lives, exactly what he wanted, woohoo! So much joy, so much fun! Oh look, there is BlurryWife™, who Jared made sure is not Eileen, because “Dean wouldn’t want Sam to be with Eileen”. But wait, didn't Dean wanted Sam to be with Eileen? Didn't Dean literally said: "If it was to work, Eileen, you know... She gets it, she gets us, she gets the life. You could do worse. And she could certainly do better, like SO much better. I'm happy for you, Sammy." Yeah, NO. This was just a writing AND acting AND producing mistake and had no matter at all. *cough* So... As you can see, magical storytelling strikes again. I can feel the magic, I can feel the full circle, it's... Amazing...

Castiel. Castiels story was magical, it was mindblowing. I've never in my entire life seen such a meaningful and deep storyline and I mean this. It's fucking massive. There is this blunt angel soldier, one of the post powerful forces, who was built to blindly obey, who lived for aeons of years, who wasn't supposed to feel anything, but he fell for a broken, suicidal, abused human who never felt loved or worthy the very moment he touched him. He fell so hard he rebelled against his own race, against his own family, against everything he had without any safety. He was the ONLY one in Chuck-knows-how-many universes who GREW outside of Chucks CONTROL! His love was so fucking massive, it couldn't be controlled by the God who built every-fucking-thing. Chuck built millions(?) of parallel universes, heaven, hell, life, death, purgatory, the empty, he created every single being, the light, darkness, every single angel, demon, leviathan, monster, animal, plant, sea, blade of grass, every centimeter of mountains, the four seasons, emotions, what the fuck ever. Everything you can ever think of, Chuck created it. And he controlled it. In every single one of his fucking millions of universes. But not Castiel.This is actually not possible. You can't outrun god. You can't outrun the one who creates, writes and controlles everything. But Cas did. Out of love. And not only that, you also imply that what happened between Dean and Cas was the only thing  that was real. Everything else was corrupted, controlled, manipulated, written by Chuck. But what happened between Dean and Cas, he couldn't affect.

Seeing Cas standing there, crying, confessing his love to Dean actually even makes me think that Dean made Cas human. Dean completed Cas. Cas didn't simply said "I love you", he actually said "In all existing universes, in all millions, all aeons of years, you are my only happiness." And Cas completed Dean. He freed Dean. While Dean was used to being left, was used to feeling worthless and unlovable, Cas saw Dean exactly the way he is and chose to stay. With every obstacle, every difficulty he loved him even more and yes, freed him from the abusive structure that had controlled and corrupted him his entire life. Something that no one else could, not his parents, not Amara, not God, not even Sam. Beautiful, isn't it? Unique. Mindblowing. Pure. You enjoyed it? Let's fuck this up in 3...2...1...

Castiels story ended exactly the same way it started. A blunt angel who doesn't care about people and feelings, blindly carrying out instructions from a new God, obeying heaven. No progress. They threw away 12 years of character development and managed to give him the same stupid and senseless ending like they did with Dean. Dean died and Cas... Wasn't there?! WHAT!? There is no single fucking way Cas wouldn't save Dean or wouldn't be there when Dean enters heaven! There. Is. No. Fucking. Way! The way they represented Cas in the end doesn't only imply that Dean isn't important to Cas anymore, he even ended up exactly the same way as if Season 4-15 wouldn't have happened. The ending is exactly the same! He's with God in heaven, supporting him with instructions, not caring about anything else.

Okay, I got it. Summarizing you can say: Jareds "magical full circle storytelling" is to yeet 95% of the past 15 years. No other characters matter, the story itself doesn't matter, every single characters development doesn't matter, it even doesn't matter what the brothers really want, they don't get it anyway.

Okay. But that's not all. As if this wasn't bad enough, they didn't just butchered ... EVERYTHING, they also salted and burnt every single Mantra they ever stood for. I'll make these short, I promise!

Team Free Will. *snort* Dean couldn't escape his fate, he always believed he'll die on a hunt as Daddys blunt instrument and he did. He kept fighting to die exactly the way he felt he was "supposed to". Message? No matter how hard you keep fighting, no matter how long you'll keep it up, you can't escape your fate. Sam couldn't change his fate, he ended how he started. Cas couldn't change his fate, he ended how he started, same for Jack, he ended how he was supposed to. YEET THE FREE WILL, NONE OF THEM CAN CHANGE ANYTHING!

Family don't end with  blood. The biggest lie that has ever been told. Do I even have to explain that? No need, right? Don't make me wanna throw up again, please. We all know that 15x20 blasted "Family don't end with blood" in millions of pieces.

Always keep fighting. THE AUDACITY to praise that while Dean is dying! After everything Dean has dealt with, It makes me wanna scream. Dean kept fighting, he always kept fighting, no matter how hard it was, no matter what forced him to his knees, he stood up again, and if he wasn't able to stand up, he crawled. He kept fighting no matter what, despite everything. His mindset changed. He wanted to live, he wanted to experience things, feelings and people differently or even for the first time. He changed. He wanted to retire, toes in the sand. He knew he earned it. Thats why he kept fighting. For what? To die the very first moment he had a free will. To die the very first moment he had a choice, had a life to build for himself. Always keep fighting, but the moment you come close to what you want, what you fought for, you die. It's been more than 3 months and I am having tears in my eyes while typing this. As for Dean, no matter how hard you fight, no matter how long you fight, you don't reach what you deserve anyway. Give up. As for Sam, AKF leeds to Emptiness. Grief. Psychological Trauma. Mental illness. Absolutely nothing worth fighting for.

I wanna go cry now, bye.

[autisticandroids]

anyway i really dislike the “dean thinks cas doesn’t have feelings because he’s an angel” headcanon because i just don’t think it’s...... believable? 

like, my first thought is it doesn’t make a ton of sense if only because like, cas is such an overemotional character. like his motivations are intensely impulsive, irrational, emotional. but like, you could also argue that dean doesn’t understand that about him, that dean doesn’t see him very clearly, and that’s believable to me.

but there’s a lot of other evidence against this headcanon. like, first of all, dean has seen him human or de-angeled a couple of times, and he clearly doesn’t change that much. second of all, like, yes, in the early seasons dean sees cas as an Angel but by the late seasons he very much sees him as like..... just a guy? like he very much just sees cas as a guy in later seasons. i don’t know if i could pinpoint where this transition happens but it does happen. third of all, we see dean attempting to tug on cas’ heartstrings a good few times? 6x20 “i’m not gonna logic you,” 6x22 “we were family once,” 8x17 “i need you,” and those are the ones that come to me off the top of my head. and in 8x17 it even works! so like when push comes to shove and it’s a life or death situation, dean is aware that cas has heartstrings to be tugged on. like dean knows cas has emotions.

but the biggest reason is like. that line that people use to support it. the one from reading is fundamental.

Oh, I don't know, man. What can I say? You've been chosen. And it sucks. Believe me. There's no use asking "why me?" 'Cause the angels – they don't care. I think maybe they just don't have the equipment to care. Seems like when they try, it just... breaks them apart.

like, that line is..... okay we’re all agreed that dean is like. he is nothing if not a miserable little pile of lies. he is always saying the opposite of what he means and masking one feeling under another. it’s his defense mechanism. things he says, things like this, they’re him trying to convince himself/other people of one thing, while he believes another. 

the first thing he’s doing here is blaming himself. he is taking responsibility for both cas’ previous actions and his current state on his own shoulders. 

now, remember, this is an edlund episode. and given *waves hands* supernatural, i think one of the more coherent methods of analysis one can take wrt. the show is to view individual writers’ bodies of work as coherent canons within themselves, only semi connected with the show as a whole, because individual writers often have strong and conflicting portrayals of the characters. 

anyway ben edlund’s dean very much feels responsible for cas. like, obviously edlund wrote “the end,” and we have collectively made a delicious meal of the fact that the horror of that future for dean is that he’s ruined cas - that endverse cas is very much (if i may weave the text together for a moment) “fallen in every way imaginable,” and that it’s dean’s fault. but the end is not the only place this dynamic shows up. look at the man who would be king - “you're a friggin' child, you know that? just because you can do what you want doesn't mean that you get to do whatever you want!” dean is very much taking it as his responsibility to educate cas here, to teach him right from wrong. ben edlund's dean very much views cas primarily as a child he is responsible for. hell, the whole drama of the man who would be king is basically that cas did something without dean’s permission, which doesn’t make a ton of sense unless you think dean feels responsible for all of cas’ actions. like, this is the flip side of dean’s control complex - if it is dean’s moral duty to control everything going on around him, then everything that happens is his fault. if everything that happens is his fault, then it is his moral duty to control everything around him. they’re the same. 

this line is dean blaming himself for cas’ “brokenness,” since he’s the one who got cas to try to care. and certainly, the text is encouraging him to blame himself:

DEAN It's Sam's thing, isn't it? You taking on his, uh, cage-match scars. I'm guessing that's what broke your bank, right?

CASTIEL Well, it took... everything to get me here.

like, i don’t think cas is trying to fuck with dean’s head here? i don’t think even at the best of times cas is emotionally aware enough to hit on the perfect way to ruin dean’s entire month like this on purpose, and this is not the best of times. and cas i don’t think sees things as dean’s fault, he just sees himself as fallen, he doesn’t think dean pushed him. and a lot of things have happened to cas in the last four years, only some of them to do with dean. to cas, “everything” here means just that - everything. dean is only one piece of a much larger puzzle. hell, cas when cas says “everything” he is probably referencing like, his whole “god’s plan” thing here: quite literally the entire predestined machinations of the world. it’s very little to do with dean.

on the other hand, i’m always just on the edge of reading cas in reading is fundamental, specifically, as bitterly passive aggressive - “always happy to bleed for the winchesters” is such a vicious line it’s hard to believe he’s being sincere. sometimes in stories i can sort of... feel the narrative/author possessing a character and saying what they want to express, rather than what that character would actually say. sometimes i feel like “well, it took... everything to get me here” and “always happy to bleed for the winchesters” were less “authentic cas characterization” and more “ben edlund being a bitter casgirl.” 

but i digress. regardless of whether that exchange was in-character for cas, and whether it was sincere, the effect on dean it has is in-character: dean blames himself. 

and the whole “they don’t have the equipment to care” thing is on the one hand, dean blaming himself - he’s the one who tried to get cas to care in the first place. and on the other, dean trying (and failing) to convince himself that there’s nothing he could have done, that it isn’t his fault - cas’ brokenness is inherent to his angelic nature, that can’t be dean’s fault.

the other thing he’s trying to do here is dehumanize cas. 

he has a couple of reasons for doing this. the first is simply that he's angry. dehumanizing cas is an act of cruelty, and dean is being cruel because he's angry.

it makes sense that dean is angry. like, on one level, cas has done a bunch of fucked shit that dean has every right to be mad about. but that stuff is not imo the primary reason dean is angry. dean is angry because of his self-blame. dean is angry because he blames himself for both cas' actions and his current state, and he's mad at cas for making him hate himself. i know that's like five dimensional blame refraction, but welcome to the twisted mind of dean winchester.

so dean is angry, and he's dehumanizing cas as an act of cruelty because he's angry. but he's also dehumanizing cas because he doesn't want to be angry at cas anymore. he can't forgive cas (because he can't forgive himself and he blames himself for cas' actions), but he loves cas and doesn't want to be angry with him, so he dehumanizes him and strips him of agency in order to absolve him of responsibility.

that's what's happening in this line. and also, all that aside, the line doesn't even say cas doesn't have feelings! it says he does, and they've ruined him!

[fucktheroyals]

You know after reading and reading and reading peoples theories and the meta from before the spn finale aired and the meta writers reactions to the finale I think I have a theory of my own. We don't have any answers tho, so this is pure speculation. If you wanna add something to support or discredit any of this that's cool but there's too many things floating around. Know I dont have proof for this conclusion at all. A lot of what I say is just guesses based on previous facts.

This all came together in my head when I realized how much this finale REEKS of the original producers and who the show was originally for. It REEKS of Robert Singer. Like if the execs started saying they didn't want it, Robert Singer was the one pushing that the story was about the brothers. That kinda thing.

Then, I was thinking of the problems in this episode and it struck me these are all of Supernatural biggest issues and to be honest all of it feels completely deliberate.

Take the sexism for example, Supernatural in it's later seasons largely out grew this, we have Jody, Rowena, Donna, Charlie, Mary, Claire (and even a wayward sisters pilot with MORE women/girls) all making regular appearances. They're mainly good characters and mostly aren't there to hurt our boys. Rowena, of course, is the one outlier being very about herself but it's clear she still cares for them, I mean its part of her development. But they're all real, with character flaws just like everyone else. (And we have Death too and she was POC 😭 THANK GOD)

Now look at the earlier half of Spn, we have Ellen and Jo, who's appearances were far in between. There's Bela in season 3, recurring for quite a bit (5 eps), but she is a character that is only there for herself, definitely not found family (unlike Ellen & Jo), and she's got more episodes in season 3 than Ellen and Jo in season 2 who aren't seen again til season 5. The "fans" send in hate mail after hate mail to try to get these characters off, and eventually they are. Then there's Ruby who's character stayed for a whole two seasons and was a largely recurring character. Why does she get to say so long? She's a plot device. She's supposed to be there to betray Sam. She has to stay (plus Jared obviously likes her). But she's not just a character the writers like writing about. Same with Lilith. Obviously not as recurring but still a plot device. Did they get hate mail tho? You can bet on it. Why? because tHeY'rE gOnNa PuSh ThE bOyS (Dean and Sam) aPaRt ThE sHoW iS aBoUt ThE bOyS oNlY. Without even thinking about the hate mail, just notice how large the difference is from how women are seen in the earlier seasons to the later seasons. Misha got tons of hate mail too for being a character that could split up the boys (probably only being allowed to say because he a man, thanks sexist producers and execs).

Only after Castiel was killed off and then Castiel fans successfully (thank you guys) got him back on the show did the hate mail largely simmer, which means female character's were allowed to stay! Which has lead us to a show with a good amount of female characters. But can you imagine having to kill characters off time and time again because people keep complaining that the show is "only about the boys." Fun times really.

So now we get to this final and we see sexism. But it wasn't just the plain old regular sexism you find in the earlier days of spn. Because now, there ARE women to talk about, talk to. But this episode was DESOLATE women wise, unless they were used for plot (which is also sexist!). Small scenes, they're barely there. Women gets her tongue cut out. Random women from s1 gets killed. Sam doesn't SPEAK of Eileen. Nothing. No mention of any female characters from the boys mouths unless they were from/in this episode itself. That's WIERD. I know we've all said it. But that goes beyond forgetting about characters. I mean its SAM'S GIRLFRIEND for Christ's sake. There is NO REASON they couldn't have said Eileen's name. Notice how Sam's wife is just... faceless. This is literally an age old sexist trope. Like... one of the things about bringing Mary back to life for s12+ is that it takes this trope... of basically a generic mother, and gives her life and feelings, whether you like them or not, they're real feelings. They said Mary isn't just a mom she's a person. Mary's existence in the later half of spn is to fix this kind of female tropes that fall upon her character, to not let these her stay a 2 dimensional character. They said we should know she's more than just the mom who tried to save her kid. Do that is the exact opposite of Sam getting a nameless, faceless wife. The sexism of the old spn wasn't just brought back, it was completely amplified. It wasn't just accidental or some exec "fixing" the story it was DELIBRATE. Whoever wrote that, didn't do ALL OF THAT by accident. Because an exec or a producer who doesn't see the flaws in old supernatural isn't going to write it that deliberately.

Let's bring it back to s10 when Charlie was killed (singer was mainly to blame). Dead in the bathtub, age old classic of burying ur gays. If you were here you know people never let Supernatural live that down. THEY KNOW what bury ur gays means. Hell, Robbie Thompson left because of Charlie's death and you think the writers don't know what it means? I mean both Bobo Berens (especially) and Steve Yockey's careers are centered around LGBT+ storytelling and you think they don't know? They know. They know.

And Dean wasn't just apart of the bury your gays trope, it is so far BEYOND that. Dean being killed on a rusty nail/screw, the tongues ripped out, things that seemed to be meant for other people. Jensen's acting in the last two episodes was giving us "DEAN RECIPROCATES" but no one ever actually saying it. I think it's clear that Dean was killed for being Bi. They didn't address it for a reason, they just silenced him. His narrative was supposed to be about letting him be HIM for the first time, to say what his feelings are instead of having them miscommunicated, and instead of doing that, they just silenced him. And the more we look at this scene the more horrific it gets. The more it's a complete slap in the face and it's supposed to be. Some guy who knows nothing about the LGBT can't write a scene this horrific.

Some guy who knows nothing about Dean couldn't write a scene that deconstructs all of Dean's character development and gives Dean his worst nightmare. I MEAN DEAN WANTED TO LIVE HIS LIFE! THEY DIDNT HIDE THAT JOB APPLICATION (or whatever job related thing that was) IN THERE FOR SHITS AND GIGGLES THEY WANT YOU TO KNOW THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE WORST SITUATION. Dean isn't Barney from HIMYM. If you watched HIMYM then you'll know Barney went from being a stereotypical ladies man and treating women terribly to being in love with a women and treating her right and working hard for it. The last episode of HIMYM (why its so bad) Barney's character development is thrown out and he's back to being a stereotypical ladies man. You don't need to know Barney's character very much to do that.

To kill Dean during a hunt his father never finished, to not have anyone at his funeral, to have Dean die young like his life didn't matter. Those are Dean's worst fears and you'd only truly know that if you watched the gin episode in s3, where they are basically laid out for you. You HAVE to know Dean's character to tear him apart like this.

This episode took all the core elements of the show and did a complete 180° the name of the episode itself is "Carry on" and Dean and Sam very much did not carry on. Sam grieving his entire life so that he good get to heaven and see Dean again. Dean being ready to live his life, despite the enormous pitfalls and learning to love himself only to be killed. "Family don't end with blood." Um.... it did in that episode either literally with Dean's death or you know BECAUSE NONE OF THEIR FOUND FAMILY WAS THERE. Not Jack, Not Cas, Not Eileen, Not Donna, Not Charlie, Not Jody, Not Claire... on and on we go. No one was there, nobody was even mentioned. Dean's funeral, no one even called that we know of. It was just Sam and Dean. Sam and Dean. And Bobby. Don't forget Bobby. But yeah Sam and Dean.

That's what the show is about right, the brothers.

Except it's not anymore. It hasn't been for years.

Cas not being there was deafening but it brought us to a major point. Becky. Becky's telling us about the terrible ending.

And many of us are wondering why would they literally tell us this is the worst ending and then... make it the ending.

Now before we move on, it very apparent many of you think Dabb doesn't ship Deancas. And Dabb doesn't care about the characters.

Say what you will about any plot holes in his writing, the point he is VERY GOOD at writing the characters, and giving us good ones.

Why do we know Dabb ships Deancas? (ill say when its cowrote, other wise its not) cowrote ep 8.02 - purgatory "I prayed to you, Cas, every night" "Cas, Buddy, I need you." "I have a price on my head, and I've been trying to stay one step ahead of them, to – to keep them away from you." 8.08 Hunteri Heroici - Cas helps them hunt! 😊❤ Dean & Cas have a serious convo about why Cas doesn't want to see/go to heaven. 8.22 Dean's mad at Cas. Sam's explanation of why Dean should be easy on Cas: "It's Cas." Dean then points out how he'd knife anybody else if they did what Cas did. 9.10 - Cas comforts Dean when Dean can't take seeing Sam (Gadreel) being tortured anymore. Also tons of Cas. 9.20 (bloodlines) - Canonical couple parallel "I was there, where were you" 9.22 The angels make Cas choose between them and killing Dean and he "gave up an entire army for one guy" 10.09 Claire's reintroduction. Cas heavy ep. DeanCas date. 10.22 THE PRISONER - u know the ep where Dean beats the shit out of Cas but loves him enough to not kill him.

We COULD keep going but I think I've made my point. If Robert Singer is the guy that is like "the show is about Sam and Dean only" Andrew Dabb is the DeanCas shipper. And you could even say a Cas stan.

Notice! How in s13 for SEVEN episodes we have a story that revolves around Dean's grief about losing Cas. Notice! How often the stories in all these seasons have a focus on their relationship. THAT is Andrew Dabb. If it weren't for him doing that, we wouldn't be able to easily say after Dean's lack of a response to Cas' confession, that Dean reciprocates.

To me, when I was (binge) watching s12 for the first time, I thought damn this is really got a lot of DeanCas. So I went to look at who was in charge, who was writing. I saw Andrew Dabb, associated him with Deancas episodes, saw all the new writers, Bobo, and then I saw that Yockey is known for same sex stories and it clicked. Dabb assembled a team to give us Destiel. THAT WAS IN SEASON 12!!!!!!!!

The amount of people saying he's homophobic flabbergast me. Open your eyes! That isn't what's going on.

Imagine making a show and trying to right all the wrongs of Supernatural. Imagine trying to write the greatest love story ever told and you have the entire season planned out for it to end off beautifully, it may possibly be your greatest achievement when it's done and then boom. someone comes in and tells you you aren't allowed to make Dean bi or make destiel endgame, after he was most probably already given the go ahead.

Sure. You could imply he's bi or into cas still in a way. Still make nice-ish ending. just give everyone what the kinda want.

Or you could scrap the last season, nothing close to a canonical bisexual Dean Winchester or Deancas endgame in site. People can be done with it be happy with the show, continue to live their lives in ignorance as to how close they were to Canon destiel.

OR you can lead everyone to the very closest you can get them to what you were aiming for and then show everyone the ugly truth and reality. Light it all on fire. Burn the show to the ground in your wake. Try your darnedest to making these people's (the people saying no) pockets suffer. Show us, the audience, what happened. Show us what this show really is.

I've seen people talk about the ending being changed during covid but I dont think that happened. I think what happened was Dabb already had this season planned out before it even started. Obviously the details were wobbly but it was all lead up to this ending. Destiel endgame, Canon Bisexual Dean, whatever it was. They were ready to write the greatest love story ever told and then someone shut it down.

Imagine the pain that must have caused them to be told no when they already said yes. They must have been so excited to give this to us.

I think someone (some producers) told him what this show is "really" about. The brothers. Can you imagine, after being told no, some kinda bullshit like this is said to you: "Why aren't you bringing it back to the brothers, Andrew? that's what the shows about. What with all this homosexual stuff, you know the audience won't like that. Not really." Imagine the original producers pushing this kind of view on you. "You know when we started it was Sam and Dean. It should end with Sam and Dean." That kinda sounds like someone huh? huh.

So why give us a nice acceptable finale, when you can take every problem Supernatural's had either up front or behind the scenes and create a finale so incredibly bad that people don't want to watch it anymore.

Someone made a good point about how Sam was originally supposed to be the main focus (this isn't to put any hate on Sam or Jared). Dean and Sam are the main characters but Sam was supposed to be the focus and for Dean to have become the focus, must have annoyed the producers because... well here we are. They wouldn't listen to Jensen. The producers liked this ending. Jensen's opinion didn't matter to them.

In some ways, if this is really what happened, it can be seen as childish from Dabb. To hurt all of us like that. Yes, he's hurting the producers, the execs, the cw. But to hurt us? Yeah it stings.

But in other ways, if this is really what happened, this is Dabb showing us the muck and gunk under the shiny surface. The hate for Misha. The hidden hate for Jensen. The underlying sexism. The underlying homophobia. The people REALLY in charge don't care about us, they just want our money. He needed to open our eyes and free us, at least free the people that he was writing for. The people he sees that care about this show.

This is the ending the powers that be wanted and its a big fuck you for a reason. I dont think this is Dabb spitting in our faces for loving this show, I think this is him trying to get revenge for us.

But from here, you can see it how u want it. If this is really what happened, I'm not in charge of your emotions, if you wanna be mad be mad if you wanna be grateful be grateful. And you don't have to believe me either I said this is speculation.

Also, as for all of the rumors like there being shots to the confession scene that we didn't see, which Jensen himself implied, I think that might have been a last ditch effort to canonized DeanCas but obviously it was cut. Like the name change was pretty clear. As for Misha possibly having shot some stuff for 20 I dont know what to tell you. If it's true I dont know where the blame would lie.

I do think however, that if all this was the case, the writers were prepared to become villians here. I mean they told us the writers were villians with Chuck right? So. Who knows what went down so they could give us such a vile ending. It could've been the producers or the writers, who truly knows. I do think tho that people we "trust" did some pretty shitty things to push the narrative in certain directions so now one would see this as the actual ending that was coming.

So again do with my SPECULATION what you will. This was in no way meant to put Dabb on a pedestal or anything. Just meant to give a bit of perspective.

(Also Jensen didn't unfollow Dabb recently he was already unfollowed for years)

[bimbonaparte]

daddy lessons (parenting in spn vs. being human)

I have not been able to stop thinking about this for weeks and it’s making me insane, so apologies to all but here we GO. McNair (Being Human UK) and John Winchester (Supernatural) both raised their sons to be weapons in a secret war and did unforgivable things in the process, but thanks to some key differences in their parenting approach, we get wildly different kids out of the equation. To recap the middle bit of the Venn diagram here, both fathers:

Dragged their kids around the country, raising them like soldiers to fight a supernatural enemy; it’s unclear when anybody’s first kills took place, to my knowledge, but we can safely say that they were at way too young an age

Weaponized the memory of a dead mother as an excuse for their crusade

Moved them around constantly and denied them almost any outside connections; by design, their whole world is wrapped up in each other

Raised their kids (Tom and Dean most successfully*) to have little identity outside of hunting and to be entirely beholden to the cause, leading to a very upsetting self-sacrificial streak

Demanded military-esque obedience; some questions may be allowed here and there, but ultimately dad is the superior officer and it’s his call

Lied repeatedly to their kids “for their own good” and kept them on a need-to-know-basis, even for stuff that they REALLY needed to know

*(I’m generally focusing on Dean & Tom in this analysis, since I think Sam escaped some of this by rebelling against the notion of a “good son”)

Hell, they even had similar deaths (i.e., made the decision to keep their kids in the dark -- rather than, say, explaining anything or asking for help -- and walk into a confrontation with an old enemy that they knew they wouldn’t survive). But despite all this overlap, we end up with two wildly different characters: jaded & emotionally volatile Dean, who drinks & throws punches to cope with feelings and performs toughness as if there’s a panel of judges in the corner at all times; and sincere & emotionally vulnerable Tom, who is also quick to throw a punch but who talks about his feelings, cries easily, and is totally unconcerned with whether or not he’s perceived as tough or masculine. I literally can’t stop thinking about it.

If you ask me, the two diverge thanks to some key differences between the McNair and John Winchester school of parenting. Despite the NUMEROUS mistakes McNair made in Tom’s upbringing, we have to give credit where credit is due:

McNair loved Tom. Unequivocally. Thought he was the best person to ever exist. Told him this daily. Told any given random stranger who stood still long enough in Tom’s general proximity. Reinforced it with physical affection and affirmation. Tom never had cause to doubt this for even a second during his entire upbringing, and it shows.

McNair must have realized at some point that Tom was different, that his take on the world was always going to be a little bit naive. Instead of trying to change this or toughen him up “for his own good” (which I can very much imagine being the John Winchester approach), McNair seems to have thoroughly embraced this aspect of Tom’s nature.

Part of that is expressed through the "code.” McNair raised Tom to live by a strict code geared towards a) survival as nomad werewolf vampire hunters, and b) survival as Tom, specifically, who has incredible physical aptitude but struggles with other kinds of learning & social cues. The code has its downsides (namely the unquestioning obedience bit mentioned above), but otherwise functions as a sort of framework that Tom can follow for navigating the societal rules & interactions he doesn’t fully understand. (There’s also the whole “teaching Tom to respect others” thing, which I could honestly write an entire dissertation on).

Beyond the rules McNair thinks they need to survive, however, McNair seems to delight in Tom simply being Tom. This shines through most with Tom’s disarming sincerity -- which he retains largely because McNair (and society at large) never tried to train or polish it out of him. There are a dozen examples where Tom cuts through layers of conversational propriety and is just genuine, because it doesn’t occur to him to be otherwise. Where other characters (like Hal) can’t help laughing at him at least a little, we see McNair take him seriously, respond with encouragement, and even match his sincerity (see: “You’re perfect”) despite the fact that McNair was raised in a society that would frown on men talking like this to their grown sons.

We therefore end up with a Tom who earnestly says things like “virginity is like a flower” with zero self-consciousness. Who would have come along to tell him men don’t talk about sex like this? McNair certainly wouldn’t have; his top priority throughout is supporting Tom as-is, not molding his personality into some idea of what a man is or should be.

The end result of all this is a very sweet, very straightforward, emotionally vulnerable killing machine. “Always be polite and kind and have the materials to build a bomb,” indeed. Tom is obsessed later on with being “a success” in a very performative way, but -- as all the characters around him repeatedly remind him -- this is not something that McNair ever cared about or put on him.

What I would love to do next is a) also acknowledge the incredibly profound ways that McNair wronged Tom (starting with killing his parents, which cannot be glossed over) and how this fucked him up; b) contrast all this with the John Winchester approach to raising child soldiers (SIGH) to see how it is that we ended up Dean; and c) look at Dean and Tom’s perception of their respective fathers. BUT. I unfortunately have to go do actual work stuff or I am gonna be in big trouble (plus this is getting LONG), so I’m gonna be revisiting this another time. In conclusion tho: Tom McNair fascinates me beyond measure, I cannot get over this, and I do not want to. TBC.

[yoonnamjin25]

Sometimes I feel bad for hellers. Their proofs and reasons for believing that Dean was in love with Cass are so trivial (I don't care if they like the ship, my problem comes when they insist on doing their headcanons canon when it's clearly not like that).

Dean is a loyal man, he cares a lot about his friends and always wants to protect them. All of them. But they say he was in love with Cass because he spent a year looking for him when they were in purgatory, as if he had not done the same if, instead of Cass, the person who was with him had been Charlie, Garth, Bobby, Jody, Donna, the girls or even Eileen (I'm not even gonna name Sam here because we all know he wouldn't have even left Sam there if he thought he was dead. No, he would have stayed there and mourned him until another monster killed him).

Dean is not the type of man who leaves others behind, especially if these others are important to him. To say he was in love because of this is honestly weak and wrong because they are literally blinding themselves into thinking that this behavior was due to his "romantic love" for Cass and not because it is something already inherent in his persona. Like, do they honestly know the man at all???

And there's this other thing about Benny too: he was not Dean's "boyfriend". They were friends, brothers in combat. They saved each other's lives probably countless of times when they were in purgatory so they shared a special bond. That's why they were so close and important for each other. But this closeness they had has nothing to do with romance.

Why does everyone has to have romantic feelings towards people they care about? Real love between friends of any gender exist. Aro people exist and it doesn't mean they don't love other people. They do. They just don't have romantic feelings for them. And that's normal. That kind of love exist. And that was the kind of love Dean and Benny shared. That was the kind of love Dean felt for Cass.

And don't get me wrong, I loved Benny and I would've absolutely loved if Dean and him had a thing, but this was not the case because of a bunch of reasons, the two of the most important being that:

1) Dean was straight and he never showed any attraction for any other men in the whole 15 years that the show lasted and, oh surprise, Benny was a male vamp.

2) Because Benny was already in love with someone else and was too into her that he couldn't have even think of someone else. Not in a romantic way.

So if in the script they put "Dean and Benny break up" is not because they were in a romantic relationship. Is just because they had a relationship. A friendship. And Dean decided to part ways with him. To put an end to their friendship. So it was a break up. And Dean felt really bad for it because he lost his friend, his brother, his buddy, the person who saved him, protected him and stayed with him in that hell of a place when he was all alone and lost. And he had every right to feel bad for it. But this doesn't mean that he had the hots for him or that he was heartbroken because he just "broke up with his boyfriend".

Seriously, they should stop trying to find representation in characters that were never meant to represent us. If they want rep, great, me too, but there are a lot of other shows for that already.

If Dean was their comfort character, perfect! He also was mine too! But not because we find comfort in him, means that he has to be exactly as we want or wish he was, it means that we accept and love him for who he was, warts and all.

And sorry, but Dean was never part of the LGBTQ+ community, although he always supported it and never judged it. He was a man who didn't give a f*ck of what others could say or think about him, so if he wanted to date a man, he would've. In a heartbeat.

Jensen has already played a part of a bisexual man and he had no problem with that, so if they would've told him that Dean was bi, he would've accepted it. In a heartbeat.

If the writers were homophobic/queerphobic and didn't want to make Dean bi in canon, Jensen would've talked about it. He knows Dean better than anyone else in the world except, maybe, Kripke. So if he knew Dean was really bi but was being "silenced" by the writers, he would've never said in multiple ocassions that Dean was not bi and that he wasn't in love with Cass and that he never had the hots for any men.

He would've encourage us instead into thinking that they were right, that Dean was bi but it couldn't have been confirmed because of the homophobic writers. But that was not the case.

There's no conspiracies, there's no secrets, there's no hints nor double meanings. There's just text and what canon gave us. If they don't like it, then the show was never for them. Period. And if they want rep, they can go watch Sense8 (just for giving an example).

PS: and now I'm gonna leave these gifs of Poncho Herrera, who plays the part of Hernando de la Fuente in Sense8, because he's a hot and super talented mexican actor and he deserves all the recognition in this world.

[buddielove]

Hi! I'm a gay fan of 911 and I have a question about the whole Buddie fandom. As much as I like Buck and Eddie, it's frustrating that a HUGE part of the fandom is pushing for these two characters to get together instead of putting energy into supporting Hen & Carla and Michael & Dave. Not to mention Carlos and TK in Lone Star. Can you explain to me the appeal of wanting these two men together? Wouldn't it be more interesting to see two heterosexual males just be able to bond in a non-toxic fashion? That's something we don't get to see often on television.

Hey! This is MAD long lmao I am so sorry! You caught me on a day I felt like talking! Also this took like a year to answer you lolololol. This does have a few ʻhot takesʻ so please be warned! So like in this essay....

So first I am also apart of the LGBTQIA+ community, so I do understand how it could come across as a fetish or being non supportive of the current canonically LGBTQIA+ characters, however I think a lot of the interest around Buddie and the want for them to be confirmed as a couple is how they are being written. Me personally I knew since s2 e1 Buck and Eddie were written not as rivals but as two people who would eventually become friends, but it wasn’t until the Christmas episode with the elf assuming Buck was Chris’s dad and Eddie’s partner that I was like ‘hold on!’ because I was really hoping Abbey would return and I didn’t see Eddie as a possible Buck live interest because of that. The elf’s comment wasn’t played off like most other shows would (think Dean and Sam arriving anywhere in Supernatural) it made me go back and look at the other episodes to see exactly how Buck and Eddie were being framed/written. And as we have moved into further seasons I think there has been a shift in how Buddie is being written, in s3 it was very much like two people progressing into a deeper friendship then the blood clot/lawsuit gets in the way and they both have to deal with emotions surrounding that, then Buck’s response to Eddie being trapped (we see how is he when Boddy is trapped in a fire WITH A GUNMAN, it’s emotional but not to the point is is with Eddie), even the love interests feel very pushed on us and there’s so little banter between Buddie about their gfs and how they feel about these new beginnings. It feels off, not like a friendship in the slightest, more like two people trying to force something and not wanting to deal with any other feelings. Then when Eddie gets shot and reveals Buck is Chris’s legal Guardian in the event Eddie dies, that’s huge, and he did this after only a year of knowing Buck (I have friends with kids. I’ve known one of them for FIVE years, I’m at their house every week, the kid calls me family. I’m person #10 on the list of ‘who gets my kid if I die’, not #1 lol) It just feels like it’s all building up to something, and people are getting tired of waiting for that something! We’re all emotionally tired from the past two years, and probably from many shows queerbaiting us and this is something that could happen, seems to be something the actors are ok with and the fans want. So why do they keep drawing it out. This isn’t about us demanding they ignore the chance to write a healthy platonic male friendship, or forcing two characters to be gay, it’s about holding the writers to what they’ve implied and seeing what could come of it.

Also think of it like this; If Buddie is confirmed it will still be a good example of a healthy friendship which then developed into something else, like Booth/Bones! Showing the natural progression of friendship to relationship that happens a lot in real life. It’s two men who previously (on screen at least) have only been with woman, but now they have an emotionally connection with someone which they then develop and explore. This could be 911’s first nontoxic depiction of two gay characters coming together, because sorry not sorry the canon couples aren’t perfect (which does humanize them) but they also reenforce harmful troupes that plaque the LGBTQIA+ community, which I’m sure you understand: TK was a drug addict, who only got with Carlos at first cause he was hot and sex was TK’s new addition (all gay men are sex addicts who do drugs and sleep with anything that moves). Carlos was ashamed and wanted to keep TK on the downlow (poc gay men want to pretend to be straight but have free access to gay sex). Hen cheated on Karen seemingly the first chance she got (lesbians can’t handle monogamy when pushed, and cheat on their long term partners). All known and documented troupes that happen far too often.

I’m not saying Buddie is some gay jesus ship that’s gonna save the entertainment industry but if done right it could prove to be one of the few healthy depictions of two men getting into a gay relationship we have. If they plan it out correctly, show us the relationship development, like they did with Maddie/Chim for example, Buddie could be used as a positive example of a gay fictional relationship (I really could go into depth about this. I probably should tbh).

As for not supporting Hen and KAREN, or Michael and DAVID, I think fans do support them! The writers don’t. If you read fanfics Henren and Michael/David are featured heavily in many fics, and ik some people might say ‘well they’re only there so Buddie can talk about their gay side!!’ but both these couples have their own fans and fanfic tags! They aren’t just plot devices in Buddie stories. There is a huge side of the fandom that supports Henren and wants to see more of them and their family. Same with Michael and David, during the episode where Michael and Bobby team up to find that plastic surgeon who was working illegally many people where ecstatic that we were getting more Michael/David content and that David was getting more than a couple lines. But sadly it seems like the writers only want to delve into these story lines when they need filler, they even miss opportunities to include these other LGBTQIA+ characters when it makes sense;

(Someone came for me about this but I am going to bring it up again)

When Chris is sad and wants more human connection, instead of bring Harry + Michael/David and Denny+Nia+Henren back into the picture (and yes I understood at the time the pandemic was bad (lmao still is!!), but all the actors at some point would have/had crossed over into each other’s ‘bubbles’, so ALL the actors would have been exposed to each other so getting the children together with adults they had ALREADY been with during shooting wouldn’t have been a super spreader event) but instead they brought in Ana after only two on screen dates and pretended like it was a logical thing for someone who’s up to that point been extremely careful with their child.

They really could have pushed the ‘118 is a family!’ message here and included the canonically gay supporting characters, and the lesbian main character(s) but they did not and instead chose to push the Ana/Eddie coupling even though they hadn’t properly developed it yet. The writers themselves don’t seem to care about developing their canonically gay characters and including them more than they have to but fans are continuously developing Henren and Michael/David with hc and fics.

I’d like to use your logic against you for a second, in s1 we have a very healthy, platonic friendship between Chim/Bobby but that got written out to the point they are more like boss/employee unless the scene calls for them to seem closer, we now have Bobby and Michael friendship but again we hardly see Michael. On Lone Star we have Owen and Judd as a really, really good example of a healthy male friendship but we see Judd more often with Tommy now then we do with Owen, and in s2 it’s overshadowed by Owen trusting Charlie from Twilight and constantly getting fucked over! Why can’t the writter just be happy with these happy, healthy, emotionally well male-male friendship they’ve already included and expand upon them. There’s enough drama because the show literally involves burning buildings and people’s lives being at risk from some natural/man made disaster ever 12 seconds. Does it need to have so much interpersonal conflict and male peacocking??

[norahastuff]

Damn that was a good episode. To me it’s felt like there’s been this great sense of dread hanging over this last stretch of episodes, and in an odd way it’s almost a relief to have it brought to the forefront like this.

I think many of us knew that following Billie’s plan was not going to work out. She’s just another cosmic being, a greater power and thus her priorities were always going to lie elsewhere. Chuck’s motivated by the desire for power and by his ego and narcissism. For Billie it’s about rules and order. They see humanity as inconsequential or perhaps in Billie’s case, an afterthought. Hence why following her plan was never going to work. The importance of humanity - the idea that each human matters and is worth something - as well as free will are the two main themes this show is built on. It will take someone who loves humanity and values free will to be able to fix this.

We’ve known that Chuck’s been orchestrating things, but I found it interesting to see how exactly he’d been doing that. This season has put a lot of focus on Dean’s anger. Dean had it drilled into him since he was a child that he was not allowed to be weak, that he had to be the strong one. This resulted in him gravitating towards other unhealthy coping mechanisms in order to survive, and when whiskey and denial weren’t enough, he used anger. He cloaked his fear, sadness and confusion under layers of rage because he didn’t know how else to confront these feelings.

Chuck knows this about Dean, but he also has a very surface level read on Dean and who he really is. Sure he can use Dean’s anger to manipulate him, but that’s not all Dean is. We’ve seen from his tearful prayer to Cas earlier this season:

“I don't know why I get so angry. I just know…I know that it’s- it's just always been there. And when things go bad, it just…it comes out. And I can't -I can't stop it. No matter how - how bad I want to, I just can't stop it.”

Underneath the anger, there’s pain and vulnerability, and when Dean allows himself to feel those things and be honest with himself that’s something Chuck doesn’t really understand, and that’s when Dean becomes unpredictable. Chuck’s relying on the versions of his characters that he created, not really getting that they go deeper than that now.

The ultimate example of this is Cas. Cas seemed to exist around the periphery this week, but honestly that’s exactly what I would have expected in an episode that was about the main characters in Chuck’s book. Cas wasn’t supposed to play a major role in any of this. Sam and Dean were. Amara was. Jack had the biggest role of all, but Cas wasn’t supposed to be in this story, and Chuck once again confirms he was never supposed to be in any of the stories.

Cas defecting was the one wild card that led to all the dominoes falling back in season 4 (ok yes I’m mixing metaphors but you get my point.) That made him an interesting toy for a while. Wind him up and watch him go. I found Chuck repeating Cas’ greatest one liner hilarious. He had such contempt in his voice and I think he was partly annoyed he could never write a line as epic as the one Cas effortlessly came up with. Actually Michael mocked that line last season too, both him and Chuck doing their best impressions of Cat’ gravelly delivery of “I’m the one who gripped you tight and raised you from perdition.”

I have no evidence to support this other than how irritated Chuck seemed by that line and also his famously bad writing skills. I also maintain that Chuck had no part whatsoever in crafting the magnificent “Hey assbutt!”

Cas was definitely not supposed to be in that part of the story.

But Cas no longer interests Chuck. He doesn’t fit into the story he wants to tell and so Chuck believes he has no place in it. And you know what? He’s right. Cas doesn’t fit into this story because he exists outside of it. His choices were his own. That gave him a power that no one else really had, and I think Cas has felt the weight of this for a long time. He knows what it’s like to have no free will, he lived that way for eons, and he also knows what breaking out of that feels like. His unfamiliarity with free will and how to navigate such a complicated concept led to him making choices he’s never been able to forgive himself for. It’s made him feel profound pain, guilt and confusion about his place in the world, if he even has one.

And yet as he’s told us over and over again, he wouldn’t take that back for anything.

“What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?”

We know what Cas would choose. What he continues to choose. He told Dean at the beginning of the season that he knew what was real “we are.” I don’t know if it was wise for Chuck to confirm just how right Cas actually was about that. Cas has spent this whole season thinking he had no role, no importance in the grand plan, but as he now learns, he’s had no place in any of the fights…and yet he’s never let that stop him before.

As a sidenote, I’m not saying much about this because I’m curious about whether the show will address this properly next week but I wonder how this affects Dean’s view of Cas. I don’t think Dean fully believed him earlier this season when Cas reassured him that they were real. As much as he loves and cares for Cas, Dean has always felt insecure about his place in Cas’ life and what he means to him.

So when Dean discovered that he had in fact just been a hamster in wheel being controlled by Chuck, it’s not too much of a surprise that he would start to question his relationship with the angel who literally fell from heaven and into his life. Although I know after their purgatory getaway, they were in a much better place, I think there was still a part of Dean that didn’t fully trust that the feelings were real. There has been so much mess and pain in the past with Cas, how is he to know how much of that was Chuck trying to create drama and how much of it was Cas’ own choices? Well now he knows. It all was. Every time Cas chose him over anything (or anyone) else, it was real.

This episode raised a lot of questions about Cas. Now I just have to try sit patiently and hope next week will answer some of them.