#live action wheel of time

[ladyknight33]

Opinons on the New Style of Live Action Storytelling

Tl:dr: The 8 episode format for the new Live Action stories is too limited for the complex stories of the original source material. Action scenes and Magical displays are not substitutes for building tension and climatic battles. The characters and storytellers deserve better. 

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As much as I am enjoying this new era of small screen scripted fiction through the streaming services, I am a bit disappointed in how rushed every show feels. The six to eight episodes force the story to hit key points without allowing the story to actually breathe and endear itself to the viewers. 

First of all, I do not believe all stories must be done in the Live Action format because locks the world into the physics we understand within our own physical world. This limits much of the imaginative qualities a work of fiction inspires. 

Example: when watching an animated Star Wars Jedi do amazing feats accredited to the Force, it is spectacular and defies the known laws of physic. When a live action Jedi attempts the same feats, the action is dulled down to fit the current CGI limitations. This holds true for any magic or anything non-real. 

This leads into a second issue live action formats fall victim to: intense focus on special effects.  Storytelling is forced to take a backseat to the long sequences of beautiful CGI images or fight scenes. T.V. and Film are visual media and they thrive on fantastic imagery. These scenes are necessary when trying to tell a visual story, but not when it takes away from character development and slows the pace of the story. 

Example: The epic fantasy series I grew up reading, The Wheel of TimeI, was long due for a visual adaptation. I have accepted that the show is not the book, but there are pacing issues that could have been avoided if the limited time had not been spent on the intense focus of weaving magic or on action sequences that took the majority of the episode.

The pacing issues are found when significant plot points must be achieved within a limited time, to the detriment of character development, dialogue, and space for the viewer to absorb what is happening. Plot points are the anchors of the story. They are what pulls characters across continents to fulfill destinies. But the story is what happens along the way. 

The plot points of Lord of the Rings are how Frodo gets the ring, is told to destroy it, and finally destroying it. The story is the emotional and physical toll it takes on Frodo and his companions on the way to destroy the ring. The pacing must allow for this internal conflict to which is so central to Frodo’s development. Action scenes are the point where all the built up tension must break. Jumping from action to action, fight to fight, gives no time for the conflict to build. 

Example: Avatar: The Last Airbender is an epic tale of young teens trying to save the world. But they encounter so much during their journey that it takes 20 episodes to tell the first part of the story. The live action is only allowed 8 episodes to introduce the four main characters and the many important secondary characters, and then take them across the four nations, improve their talents, create love interests (Sokka really has two women fall in love with him on two separate occasions in under a day? Really?), and every episode must have an epic fight scene which does little but show the impressive powers of Bending. 

It doesn’t seem fair. 

Why does a book that requires nearly a thousand page to tell a complex story get reduced to 8 episodes. Why does an animated series that required 20 episodes to tell a complex story get reduced to 8 episodes. Why does a manga which required a hundred  chapters or 50 episodes to tell a complex story get reduced to 8 episodes.

Who decided 8 episodes was the new standard? Even at almost an hour long, 8 episodes constrain the story and leave the audience annoyed and how much potential was wasted. 

The anime One Piece is another epic story I grew up with and am still thoroughly enjoying. It doesn’t seem fair that it was reduced to 8 episodes. The series still had the same trouble as all live action remakes, but they embraced the new format and retold the story with the limited time. It cut many scenes I personally enjoyed and believed to be integral to character development (I’m looking at Zoro’s fight with Arlong and Sanji rescuing Luffy from drowning) but it allowed time for the characters to interact and find a balance. The special effects are blended into the story telling and not showcased in their own long, though pretty, sequences. 

Even the shows created with the 8 episode limited series in mind have trouble getting the right blend of character development and epic fight scenes. 

Obi-wan Kenobi had great potential but left viewers unsatisfied. Ahsoka fell into the same pattern of long silent solo scenes or abrupt violent clashes. For me Ahsoka at least felt like a very long movie if watched in one sitting. Kenobi left me wanting to know more about the new character, Reva, but she was stuck as a one dimensional villain in favor of a Darth Vader Kenobi duel. Ahsoka spent much of its time trying to introduce the characters and plot of Star Wars: Rebels and revisiting Ahsoka’s past that they almost forgot that they were trying to tell a new story. 

Each of these shows have great scenes and showcase wonderful characters. The creators of these shows have wonderful shows that came before. 

The 8 episode choice is a poor one. It must be longer than a movie but shorter than a stander T.V. series. The stories chosen are far more complicated than what a movie can handle but need more time to truly develop into an epic story that is revered by audiences long after its conclusion. Yes, I’m referring to Avatar: The Last Airbender Animated Series. 

A story as complex as The Wheel of Time or One Piece deserves a T.V. soap opera treatment. The Live Action Avatar: The Last Airbender needs at least twice as many episodes to follow the characters and show their development without everything feeling cramped and rushed. Ahsoka could have been a two night event. A two hour movie on each night, one before Peridia and one after. Kenobi would have benefited from at least two more episodes to allow Reva to really shine as a new villain or to have removed the character all together.

After a long drought of scripted sci/fi and fantasy, I am thrilled to see the development of all of these stories. I can’t wait for more. But I am terrified that this 8 episode format is going to kill the movement because none of these stories have the staying power or time to draw in new audiences. 

Remakes are lovely, but if they are only done as fan-service or fulfillment of a single person’s desire to have their name on it, then don’t. Live action has some how become synonymous with legitimacy. As if animation is not simply a method of storytelling, but as a child only form. Live action should bring in new audiences to beloved stories, not infuriate the old. The pace of storytelling should be of prime importance, not constrained to an arbitrary number of episodes. 

So I am saying farewell to the many scenes I wished could be recreated in this world of live actions remakes. We each have them. And I retain hope that new seasons and series will do better. 

[uri59]

[do-you-know-this-queer-character]

Do you know this queer character?

Moiraine is WLW and uses She/Her pronouns!

[moghedien]

every now and then I think about the fact that we have live action Forsaken and I black out for five minutes

[demifiendrsa]

The Wheel of Time Season 2 - Main Trailer

Season 2 of The Wheel of Time will premiere on Prime Video on September 1, 2023.

Poster

[8o--o8-deactivated20220523]

Something that I genuinely find fascinating about opla from like a creative standpoint is how, if you look the decisions the writers made it becomes clear that they just want to adapt one piece into real life?

They don't want to change it, go in their own direction or "improve" it, they just want to do it irl

When you look at interviews with the showrunners and such, literally every single time they talk about shit they cut, they talk about it like "oh yeah we really wanted to do that but didn't have the budget"

I genuinely believe that any change they made to the source material was just because they didn't have infinite money or they wanted to make it work as a big budget streaming show

I think the most insane example of this is the fact that there are only like 4 note worthy LA only characters : The short marine Nami knocks out at the beginning of the show, the Fishman waiter at Baratie, the guy who offers Nami passage on his ship at Baratie and the bartender who tells Koby and Helmeppo where the strawhats went

That's the caliber of original characters were dealing with, you forgot most of them existed

And usually when you have big budget live action adaptations like this you usually invent some important original characters for the sake of making things smoother or change an already existing character so much that they're essentially an original character, again so you have an easier time doing your own thing/adapting it

They really do not want to do their own thing in the slightest if they don't have to

Sure you can point at the Garp stuff but from the interviews with the showrunners they talk about how big budget streaming shows need b plots like that, again they saw this change as a necessity to make it work as a big budget streaming show and not an indulgence

Literally every single character is almost entirely in character with their original Manga counterparts(with some deviations, the strawhats are less morally grey and Luffy listens to the backstories)

All of them fucking look 100% like the characters and those were originally made to look like stupid cartoon characters

And here's the thing, you can make an adaptation that "doesn't respect" its source material, wants to go in its own direction etc. And have it still be good, being accurate does not equate quality

It's just insane that they took this approach where they're very accurate, literally just want to translate the original story into a new medium, nothing else, with a work that is inherently not made for a live action medium

And I can't stop thinking about how nuts that is, the one piece live action adaptation, in the current adaptation landscape we live in, is the one that tries it's hardest to be accurate to its source material in almost every single way

[highfantasy-soul]

I know this isn't going to have any effect on those who feel justified in hating the adaptations they do - all sorts from comic to screen, book to screen, animated to live-action - but in my re-watch of ATLA (animated), I've noticed a lot more 'eeehhh' storytelling than I did in my other watches. Because I'm looking for it to compare specifically how they did it in the animated to how they did it in the live-action.

And let me tell you - the animated story is amazing, phenomenal, one of my favorites ever...and it has storytelling issues.

So maybe, if you were convinced the PJO adaptation was shit, the ATLA adaptation was awful, the Wheel of Time show was a tragedy, try going back and watching/reading the OG LOOKING for things to gripe about. Treat the OG like you treat the adaptation - with the most critical eye for any inconsistency, character work you don't like, plot holes, expositional dialogue, and pacing issues.

LOOK for those issues, and I guarantee you'll find them. Because, let me let you in on a secret: no story is perfect. We love them anyways because the story is still good. It's still meaningful. It still has merit.

Imagine the OG is actually the adaptation and (if you're able to honestly do that) you'll find things the adaptation did better.

Again, I know the people who've made it their personality to hate all adaptations and pretend they're storytelling geniuses who know best aren't going to pay attention to this, but idk, maybe one person will? Or for us more forgiving watchers, we'll be able to catch ourselves if we start to make some uncharitable, knee-jerk arguments about certain pieces of media.

Idk, just try it maybe.

[kazz-brekker]

i have a very important wish for season 3 of wheel of time, which is that moghedien and rand share a scene because moghedien is really short compared to lanfear, who is short compared to rand, and therefore moghedien must look absolutely TINY next to rand

[ianxfalcon]

I wasn't going to watch season 2 since I didn't much care about the first. But.

He.

[demenior]

IT'S AVIENDHA DAY

[rrcraft-and-lore]

With the new Avatar series having been out a few months now, here's another mythology and language lesson people overlook and it's...tiring.

The word and concept of Avatar is South Asian. I can't Hinglish it, but it's close to pronounced like: Uhv-thaar. you can just google it, but it's the idea and ability of gods or powerful beings to incarnate in new time/new forms/bodies, sometimes both mortal and divine.

It happens a lot in the Vedic epics.

Avatar: The Last Airbender? Concept, reincarnation, South Asian as fuck.

South Asia (as does other areas of the world/cultures) has a take on the x number of elements as well. Usually it's: wind, fire, earth, water, and sound/voice/space or spirit - aether - w.e. you wanna call it. Spirit bending the idea of the spirit world. Obviously this set is not a direct 1:1.

A:TLA draws a closer to parallel in ways to Chinese takes on the elements.

Obviously James Cameron's avatar takes this concept to a sci fi degree, essentially bringing your mind/consciousness into a new/different (Alien) body.

We also get into the world tree mythos/axis mundi parts of his story too, but that's beside the point and not unique to any one culture - that's anything out of proto Indo-European up. Obviously within in the pantheon of sff literature and other media the idea of reincarnation and cyclic nature of time - birth across time isn't new or rare.

The idea of a Wheel of Time, in fact, comes quite from: Kalachakra - translation = "Wheel of Time." This is an Indian belief that later spread through/over distance as well as religion, popping up in Buddhism and finding prominence most notably in Tibet still to this day.

The belief also ties back into the idea of conventional reality - time being an aspect of the larger world-universe- the smaller aspects of which are comprised of, once again: earth, wind, water, fire, space - sound familiar to something rom fantasy?

Probably. If not, read more. Or...more carefully.

[zibus]

Somehow I am looking forward to watching (counts on fingers) 5 shows coming out between now and January. How did this happen?

[koravelliumavast]

The only live action cover I’ve seen that was better than the original book cover was for wheel of time. But the original covers are kind of bad so…

[squirrelwrangler]

Pin this prediction for the Amazon LotR show that I resent, hope lasts only one season and that WoT gets all of its budget (I know the 5 season deal and that makes me sad of what bullshit they have to invent for plot)- have been trying to avoid as much show info as I can but I know of the many many characters created for the show is a new villain ‘Adar’ an elf working for Sauron. And they’re making Galadriel the main character (and have yet to show Celeborn and are making her heavily involved in Numenor). Calling it now, Adar is corrupted Aegnor for the cheap drama and ooh evil parallel counterpart Arwen/Aragorn and Galadriel angst.

[moghedien]

Just to make some things clear

If this turns out to be anything (it probably isn’t it’s Red Eagle after all and the article was nonsense), I’m gonna be blocking anyone I see using AI for Wheel of Time content on here.

I don’t think anyone really cares if I block them or not, but I’d rather have a dead fandom than have it filled with soulless, nonsensical garbage

[epicdogymoment]

wheres that post about knowing about your mental illness blows because you can know all the fancy terminology and still see that shit creep up on you and be completely helpless to stop it