#mdzs characters play among us

[southernwolf16]

After coming across SVSSS-related stuff on the blogs I follow/stalk, I finally gave in to my curiosity and checked the donghua.

I tried reading the novel a while back, but it didn't entice me that much so I didn't finish it. I think seeing the donghua helped spark my interest again.

Then I held back from watching Ep 10 for the past week and started reading the novel. I'm almost finished with it.

It's so different from MDZS. I find myself laughing most of the time. Luo Binghe and Shen Qingqiu (Shen Yuan edition) are such disasters. I'm sure the more senior fans have already written eloquent posts about how codependent they are, Shen Jiu and Yue Qingyuan's relationship, why Cucumber Bro and Airplane Bro transmigrated to the novel they read/wrote, why the System exists in the first place, writing what you're passionate about vs writing what'll bring in money, and who is Jiang Cheng's counterpart in SVSSS, among other things. I think I read a post suggesting it's Liu Qingge? Or is it Shen Jiu?

Anyway, back to the donghua. I hope I'm not alone in saying I like the character design. At first it was a little jarring---maybe because I'm not used to watching CGI---and the donghua isn't actually 100% polished a la FFVII remake (on a side note, someone joked that Yue Qingyuan seems to be from the PS2 era). Regardless, I appreciate the design since it gave me an idea how the characters look like.

Which is why I'm a bit surprised when I started trawling the SVSSS tags here at Tumblr and saw art depicting Luo Binghe as a curly-haired, big-muscled mountain of a man. Perhaps this is influenced by Western taste? I'm not an expert in Chinese literature or culture, but in some pics I've seen from Cdramas those of demon blood who play major roles don't have the physique of someone who can crack walnuts with their biceps. Think Wang Yue (Wang Zhuocheng) from Legend of Chongzi and that actor from Love Between Fairy and Devil. Furthermore, Luo Binghe is described as a pretty boy in the novel so at this point, I'm of the humble opinion that the donghua got his body type right. And I subscribe to the standards of beauty from the source culture.

Okay, going back to the donghua Ep 10. As we say here in my country, papunta na tayo sa exciting part---I'm going to see Luo Binghe get pushed down the Endless Abyss by his beloved Shizun. Oh, the angst, the drama.

Nope. Nothing of the sort happened.

Oh, so they saved it for Season 2 [Tries to find Season 2]

[Season 2 not yet released] 😨

What. The. Hell.

I held off finishing Season 1 because I thought Season 2's already available. The site where I watched the donghua said Season 2's release is 2022.

Dude, we're two months' shy of closing 2023. 😱

Season 2, where art thou? 😭

[ocheeva]

5 Favourite Characters Poll (Tag Game)

i was tagged by @pangzi @melodious-tear and @psychic-waffles ♥♥♥

picking characters was pretty easy actually, i know exactly who i love most. the only hard thing was picking between xiao hua, shen qingqiu, and himemiya anthy but i ended up going with my bestie ♥

Rules: make a poll with five of your all time favourite characters and then tag five people to do the same. See which character is everyone's favourite.

Tagging: @astrangedoor @lealdog @mishikaiya @jauffre & @margomadisons uwu

propaganda under the cut, not a formal part of the game but i love talking about these bitches!

commander shepard made me who i am and i'm not joking. i'm always a hoe for duty-bound characters and she is such a perfect example of what makes me love a character like that. she's also someone i roleplayed for years, i met some of my oldest friends & my soul sister because of her (thirteen years in august!) and when i need to stand up for myself or others with people i don't know i still model my approach on her, as well as a myriad other interactions (due to the autism it's easier to ask 'what would shepard do?' than to make something up). she means the WORLD to me!!

nie huaisang charmed me when a friend played a character based off him in a d&d oneshot and went on to become my favourite character in one of my favourite books. i'm deep into chinese literature and drama because of this little man. he was a gateway drug to SO many experiences, I've read ancient erotica and poetry because of him + gained a deeper understanding of chinese history and culture. and a bitch loves learning! but he's also just a character who gets to me in a really special way. he means things to me i can't even express. what a guy. god.

captain janeway came into my life when i was thirteen and star trek: voyager was on tv on some weeknight, and i was bewitched. my mother enjoyed it and i would sometimes join her, but after a while i barely could because janeway made me realise i was queer and i couldn't have those feelings when i felt unsafe and exposed. but, man, i never forgot her and i've rewatched voyager in its entirety twice as an adult. i'm overwhelmed every time. if she smiled at me and told me i'd be okay i actually believe i would. i love her. i've loved her for twenty-three years. loving her is such a core part of my personality it's ridiculous.

xie yuchen/xiao hua was mentioned to me when my didi and i talked about who i might get along with in the mess that is the dmbj franchise. among ridiculous claims, magnets that can affect time and your feelings, and snakes that can be used as video recorders thanks to their pheromones, he is a shining beacon of sensibility. he's been called 'competency porn made flesh' by more than one person for good reason. he's a big reason why i started watching terrible dramas and read terrible books but he makes every second SO worth it.

finally, estraven became a dear friend last july when i read tlhod. it was a slow read at first but around the halfway point i was suddenly rendered breathless; estraven as a character proved to be so much more than i expected. reading a single description of him by the main character brings tears to my eyes because he is so much. i'm crying a little just writing this! he's that same kind of duty-bound and loyal that makes me insane as shepard and janeway, and i'm so grateful he brought me across the gobrin ice. i left a piece of my heart there. i need to crochet a shawl dedicated to this book (and him) so i can wrap myself in my own feelings about it. the power of his nonbinary alien pussy is out of this world.

[loosingmoreletters]

Take a snippet of a Sword Art Online AU for mdzs

Watching the teenagers talk among themselves, gesticulating wildly, Wei Wuxian figured they must have spent a lot of time in full dive systems, which was odd enough. After what had happened to Lan Zhan and his brother, it seemed more likely that their uncle would’ve shut down any association Lan Corp had with that tech. Then again, it had been over a decade. Maybe Lan Qiren wasn’t even CEO anymore, though Wei Wuxian couldn’t think of anyone to succeed him. Neither Lan Xichen nor Lan Zhan had seemed particularly suited for the position of a CEO when he’d known them.

“Sizhui,” the loud Lan - Jingyi? - suddenly interrupted the conversation, “is your dad gonna pick us up?”

Sizhui shook his head. “No, he’s at physical therapy.”

“He’s always at PT,” Jingyi muttered.

“It’s not like muscle atrophy suddenly goes away,” Sizhui reprimanded him as the Ouyang boy dug his elbow into Jingyi’s side, and Jingyi grimaced.

“Sorry, you know how I meant it. After all this time, is there really a chance it’ll get better?”

Sizhui sighed, proving at once that it couldn’t have been just Lan Zhan raising him for all that open sass. Had he gotten a real marriage? A proper spouse with benefits that weren’t the the highest spell stats?

“Father cares about it.”

Lan Zhan had been their high school and university’s athletics champion for years. The time spent comatose in game would’ve likely ruined all of that. If Wei Wuxian still had a body, it would probably break apart the moment he tried to move.

“We can catch the bus to my place then,” Ouyang kid said. “It’s not that far from Lan Corp and we can grab food on the way.”

So much for Wei Wuxian’s assumptions that the company wouldn’t have anything to do with Full Dive tech anymore.

“Are you all diving from Lan Corp?” Wei Wuxian asked.

“Yeah, it’s the closest,” Jingyi said. “What company are you playing at?”

“Jingyi!” Ouyang - okay, Wei Wuxian really needed to catch his name - exclaimed. “You don’t just ask a high level player from where they’re diving when in private! Sorry, Senior Mo!”

Oh, dear, did they assume Wei Wuxian was a pro gamer? He grinned.

“No, it’s fine. I’m diving from home!”

A blatantly lie as Wei Wuxian’s continued existence was a string of zeroes and ones, but he wasn’t about to tell a bunch of kids he was little more than a virus hanging onto the remaining Wen servers.

But instead of reassuring the teenagers, his statement just made them gape in horror.

“From home! How? With a homebrew system? Isn’t that illegal?”

Was it? It hadn’t been when Wei Wuxian was still alive. Most of them had dived from home over standard consoles.

“What server are you on? Even Sizhui isn’t allowed to dive from home, though it wouldn’t make such a big difference for him.”

“Father doesn’t want me to risk taking a less secure connection. I could suffer severe damages.”

Yeah, that did sound like Lan Zhan. Wei Wuxian laughed and ruffled the kid’s head. “Being supervised while diving is for the best. I’ve got my brother looking after me, don’t worry.”

Despite everything, Wei Wuxian was sure Jiang Cheng had claimed his body. His brother probably arranged a nice funeral too. Wait, was his name famous IRL now? Wei Wuxian mentally patted himself on the shoulder for sticking with Mo Xuanyu’s character profile instead of editing it.

“That’s good, Senior Mo!” Ouyang kid said.

“Are you diving on a regular schedule then?” Sizhui asked. “We took down that demonic arm quicker than I calculated with your help. You’d be a great addition to our party.”

The last tome Wei Wuxian had been part of a group, it hadn’t ended well for anyone. But without him there, the kids would’ve died and they obviously planned to stick around.

And if Wei Wuxian wanted to figure out who had hooked up the Wen servers to a new game, he ought to stick around living players.

“I’d be honored to join your party,” Wei Wuxian said. “Maybe I can teach you a trick or two!”

Not any of the gaps he exploited for his demonic cultivation, but one or two shortcuts that would bolster the kids’ chances. Maybe he could disguise hacking their stats as extra training. Obviously they wouldn’t die IRL if they died in game, not like the last humans Wei Wuxian had talked to, but he was incredibly selfish.

He didn’t want to witness anyone’s death again. Helping then was fir his benefit too.

[thebiscuiteternal]

I have a prompt I'd love to throw your way for the jam:

MDZS/Untamed post-canon SangYao, another character (e.g. WWX or a snooping Junior) discovers that NHS has a little shrine/memorial nook set aside with JGY's hat, a lovingly painted portrait by NHS, and whatever other accoutrements strike your fancy (e.g. maybe a journal NHS writes in every day where he 'speaks' to JGY) that make it obvious the relationship SangYao once had. What they do with that is up to you, I just thought it would be fun (and potentially heartbreaking)

After thinking about it a bit, I've decided that I'm gonna set this in the same timeline as this one, so Jin Ling already knows that things between Nie Huaisang and Jin Guangyao were a lot less simple than everyone would like to believe, but he didn't know they were in a relationship at some point. Mixed canon, as per my usual.

------------

~ I suppose I should be angry. Would it be easier for you that way? For me to roar and rage about broken promises the way Da-ge does instead of hiding away in tears?

Well, I can't. Just like I can't say I never saw this coming. As soon as I saw you in the Nightless City, I knew I had been set aside for someone better and more acceptable in numerous ways.

Before I even fell for you, I knew I would never be good enough.

So I can't be angry.

But will you be angry with me if I am too ill to travel the day of the wedding? I promise to send extra gifts in my stead, and to try to send Da-ge in a good mood. ~

---

Jin Ling frowned as he closed up the letter and laid it back among the dozens of other letters and notes and drawings from Nie Huaisang that his shushu had been keeping in an unassuming little box hidden deep within the protected room where all his other most closely guarded secrets were held.

It was dated a solid two years before Nie Mingjue had die- been killed, but even though he didn't remember the wedding itself, he knew from records that Jin Guangyao and Qin Su had married after the murder and Nie Huaisang had attended as sect leader and representative.

Had he already tracked down any of Jin Guangyao's secrets by then?

Jin Ling doubted that. Surely there would have been more mention of him other than the guest list if he'd made a commotion, as Jin Ling had discovered many, many records of indescretions by assorted cultivators and outside nobles and merchants that could have been used as blackmail as he went through the contents of the room.

And some of them had been about Nie Huaisang. Jin Guangshan had found it almost disturbingly amusing to catalogue the apparent downward spiral of his hated rival's little brother.

So if there weren't any from the wedding... no, whatever had been going on then must have been genuine.

Knowing what he knew now from having talked to Nie Huaisang and read everything he'd found in the treasure room, Jin Ling could only feel an aching sort of pity for everyone involved except his yeye.

His shenshen, not having any idea what horrors were lurking behind her happy day.

Qin-furen, knowing what she was unwillingly allowing.

Nie Huaisang, newly brotherless and forced into the role of playing smiling wedding guest as the man he loved married someone else.

He even felt sorry for his shushu. It must have been miserable trapped under the weight of his mistakes and the what-might-have-beens.

Wiping his eyes with the heel of his hand, Jin Ling leaned back against the wall and let out a long sigh.

Unlike the blackmail records -burned- and the demonic cultivation notes -given to his shijiu- and a number of other things he'd already gone through, he wasn't sure what to do with these.

They were far too personal to just be put back on the shelf, and yet-

He considered possibly giving them to Nie Huaisang, but he didn't know if that would be an insult. The other sect leader had been surprisingly kind to him in helping him sort out his grief over several talks and exchanges of letters, and Jin Ling didn't want to wind up pouring salt in an old wound.

But it felt wrong to simply get rid of them, and he couldn't think of any better place for them to go.

---

Though he couldn't go anywhere he pleased with impunity like his shushu once had, Jin Ling had discovered during his visits that he still had a surprising amount of freedom in the Unclean Realms. Whether it was because most of the disciples and staff still looked at him as a kid, or because Nie Huaisang allowed it as a side effect of their personal discussions, he didn't know.

But he wasn't going to complain about it right now.

His original intent had been to leave the box in Nie Huaisang's library or somewhere similar, but then he'd remembered That Room.

The one situated in the same hallway as the sect leader's room and Nie Huaisang's old room, that his shushu had indicated he'd lived in when he'd been part of the sect.

The one Jin Ling had never seen anyone else living in even when he was small, not even the current second in command.

Hoping he wasn't about to get himself in deep trouble for snooping, he tested the door latch and found it opened easily, as if it hadn't gathered any dust in the years since his shushu had left.

Carefully, he peeked inside.

Though most of the furniture was gone, a hefty three piece writing desk and a cabinet remained.

At first, he thought they'd been taken directly from his shushu's office, they were so similar. But as he looked closer, running his fingers over the wood, he found a few differences.

The beast head of Qinghe Nie adorned the drawer and door pulls, for one. The desk was missing the place where he'd accidentally nicked it with a toy sword. The spots where Rusong had tried to chew on the edge while teething weren't there.

This, he realized, must have been his shushu's desk and cabinet when he was still Meng Yao. A welcome gift from his sect leader and young master.

And Jin Guangyao had had it replicated more according to Lanling tastes when he'd moved.

Oh... things really had been complicated between them, hadn't they?

Curiosity overtook him, and he couldn't stop himself from looking in the drawers and cabinets one by one.

A hat that he couldn't bear to see for more than the time it took to open and then quickly shut the drawer. A set of finely made brushes. Some fresh notebooks. A set of beautifully-designed green and gold robes that had likely never been worn.

A painting of his shushu, looking younger and smiling brighter than Jin Ling had ever seen him.

Other bits and pieces he didn't understand the meanings of.

And, finally, a carved wooden box.

Jin Ling found himself relieved by that particular discovery, knowing immediately what had to be inside without even opening it. Taking the box he'd brought with him out of the pouch he'd stored it in, he carefully laid it down next to the one already there.

Then slipped out of the little mausoleum-of-sorts back to his room.

---

Jin Ling looked up from his breakfast to find Nie Huaisang staring at him over the rim of his teacup.

For a moment, he froze, afraid he was about to get laid into for his nighttime sneaking.

But Nie Huaisang merely tilted his head in acknowledgment, then went back to his tea.

And Jin Ling couldn't help but grin before taking his next bite.

[icarus-suraki]

Thinking about that "Western names for MDZS characters" post and, yeah, let's not do that. But it reminded me of a story:

Back in the early 2000s, a rumor was floating around the anime internet that there was going to be a US-made live-action movie version of Neon Genesis Evangelion. All of us fans were, naturally, appalled. But a game developed among us where we created "fan" casts of plausible but awful actors and then tried to come up with horrible Westernized character names. Because that was what happened back then. And we knew whoever was trying to make this rumored movie would fuck it up so bad. We had a good, cynical laugh about it.

I don't remember many of the names we came up with, but I do remember someone betting on "Sean Icarus" for Shinji Ikari.

Thank fuck it was just a rumor.

Nowadays they might keep the characters' names the same, but they'd all be played by Scarlett Johansson.

[dangerouscommiesubversive]

for the fic writing meme: 25?

25. What other websites or resources do you use most often when you write?

Ooh, good question. Honestly, I don't regularly use many websites apart from Wikipedia, although I've recently been finding Behind the Name very useful for my MDZS fic, as I don't know tremendously many Chinese given names and I do on occasion need one for OCs or characters not named in text. I have decent kung fu when it comes to Google and other search engines, and also a lot of reference books in my house, so when I need more information on something I typically look it up on the fly.

So I mean, all those reference books would be my other resources--among other things I have a big chunky baby name book per writerly tradition, a two-volume OED, several subject encyclopedias on various fantastic and supernatural topics, many books on writing, all my textbooks from grad school, and lots of books of poetry and plays, including...I think three complete Shakespeares? Possibly only two. One does tend to accumulate them, is the point. And of course I also have @rudojudo, who is themself a wonderful resource when it comes to their particular hyperfixations.

[inimitablereel]

2022 Fic Fanwork Recs

Saw someone doing end of year fic recs and I decided I wanted to talk about fics. And then I started going through my ao3 bookmarks and realized I had a lot of vids I really loved in there. So under the cut (because even limiting to not too many per fandom and only things published this year this got long) are some things I've liked this year!

DMBJ

So Beat the Drum Slowly by Thimblerig gen: Wu Xie goes to A Ning's funeral I am the center of the target audience for this fic. I love A Ning and this gave me some actual closure over her death.

Wish Your Bed was Already Made by ilgaksu Wu Xie+Heihua I love ilgaksu's version of heihua always. Would recommend this fic for fans of all the times in Ultimate Note where Wu Xie is forced to third wheel them and for everyone who assumed Hei Xiazi put a tracker on Xiao Hua in the heihua movie.

Practical Applications of a Formal Education by Pandelion gen: 5+1 snippets of tomb adventures This is about the most important character in dmbj (Wu Xie's architecture degree). Fun tomb moments and character dynamics for everyone.

Pépito is Out by ladysisyphus iron triangle ot3: snippets of post-reboot hanging out I love the iron triangle and I love most of the ot3 hanging out being retired fics. This one also has a lot of cute visiting reboot characters and a very cryptid Xiaoge.

With Water and a Star by afrikate Hei Xiazi/Xiao Hua/Huo Xiuxiu (mind the metadata: this is the only tomb show fic I've linked that's rated m and not super short) The rare tomb show fic that's mostly about the politics of running mob families (tbh it's rare in canon too except for sand sea so maybe there's a lot of this in fics I haven't read for spoilers reasons): Huo Xiuxiu takes over the Huo family! Love to see her getting to actually be badass. I was skeptical of the ship going in, but this is a getting together fic for all the sides except heihua and it really sold me on the various dynamics.

vid: spike the punch by stellarer Ultimate Note. heihua vid!! this vid really gives you the sense that these weirdos like each other so much and is just really joyful to watch

vid: you're a 10 I'm a four leaf clover by absternr also UN, also a heihua vid!!! they're so weird and they flirt so weirdly <3 and this vid does a great job conveying that

vid: Still Not Dead by teyla multi-tomb show. Honestly if you're in the dmbj fandom and you haven't gone and watched all of teyla's multi vids, congrats, you're gonna have a good day today, go watch all their vids they're all great. This one is a bop but also a good thing to watch if you want to think really hard about Wu Xie as a character.

vid: I'm not your friend by absternr UN. My reclist so I'm gonna rec a little Ultimate Note A Ning vid where she gets to be hot and badass and not dead.

The Untamed/MDZS I've been in this fandom for over 2 years now, so my untamed fic recs are all things that are a little different from a lot of the stuff I've already read. If you're just kind of looking for a wangxian fic there's a lot of new good ones that I am not mentioning here.

the fair and the good and the brave must die by Lise wangxian... kind of. canon-era, during the 13 years Lan Wangji finds Wei Wuxian's angry resentful ghost and has to deal with that. This fic is upsetting and I love that.

grandmaster ranked in demonic cultivation by tshirt Jin Ling centric (Jin Ling & Jiang Cheng among others): modern ...league of legends au? as in they play league I know nothing abut league but this fic author clearly does and I love to read a niche au. Funny and also really really good characterization for both Jin Ling and Jiang Cheng.

年年有虞 | Sweet, but not too sweet by frostferox Jiang Cheng centric: modern au - elementary school Jiang Cheng has a bake sale Okay so you can tell who my favorite untamed boy is from this list :p but this is a really interesting take on what all the Jiang family relationships look like without the big stressors of canon. Also a fic about being first gen kid in a US elementary school.

vid: Fixer Upper by absternr Burial mounds vid! Lots of Wens (+ Wei Wuxian) feels about trying to build a home when everyone wants to kill you. This made me cry.

Nirvana in Fire

The Young Marshall's Ghost by ConvenientAlias gen: Mei Changsu solves a mystery After reading this I went back and read the rest of the series it's in, but given that I read it in this order, it obviously works as a standalone. Fun if you like to watch Mei Changsu be smart but framed more in a mystery way than a political drama way.

boiling point by caulkhead Lin Chen & Mei Changsu This should really have the exhausted character finally gets a nap tag. Lots of cleverness and friendship feels.

All the Distant Stars by BromeliadDreams Mei Changsu/Xiao Jingyan: scifi au This is one of the only setting aus that I've really liked in this fandom, but it's doing really cool things with how you come back different in a scifi setting. More running around having adventures and feelings vibes than political intrigue.

"The wise person avoids parties as far as possible" by Nemainofthewater Jingrui goes to a party (no not that one) choose your own adventure fic This is such a cool fic format and there are so many different possible endings

vid: Mei Changsu is climbing the mountain by sandalwoodbox general nif plot focus This is a remix of another vid (that is also excellent and you should watch) and it's a really cool tonal shift between the two vids. It's somewhere between saying something very serious about canon and doing something very silly.

vid: ...Baby One More Time by absternr Jingyan/Mei Changsu(or should I say Lin Shu?) Okay so I'm choosing the silly nif vids I guess but the thing about this vid is you go in being like haha a Brittney Spears song haha there were so many signs and you come out being like oh no Jingyan's lonliness is killing him I am so sad now every time. Which is the ideal nif vid experience imo, can't spell knife without nif, go have some feelings.

Misc Vids

Don't Worry Be Randall by lizardjay For Infinity Train but I'd rec it even if you haven't seen the show - it's just a charming animation of don't worry be happy

She Works Hard for the Money by teyla For Kinnporsche but you do not have to have seen the show. This is so funny, especially if you've ever seen any show that went hard on product placement. NSFW: don't watch it in public

So far by dirty_diana - fandom: Wheel of Time I saw this before I'd seen the show and then again after it - either way it's very atmospheric but having seen the show I also had a lot of feelings about friendships and the heroes journey and how you can't go home again.

And some ones where you do probably want to know the fandom

Satisfied by CherryIce - fandom: The Good Place Tahani character study! Lots of feelings about Tahani as a character and found family and bio family.

Bad Vibes by jonesandashes, pollyrepeat - fandom: Bridgerton (s2) Kate/Anthony I will admit I haven't seen any of Bridgerton s2 and am saying you should know the fandom on the strength of having read the books. But the real draw of this vid is it really gets that Anthony is a terrible awful garbage man but I love him and so does Kate unfortunately. Just a really fun time and a very iddy look at this generally very iddy ship.

[peculiar-author]

[Sims 4] MDZS - Qinghe Nie - Impure Realm 不净世

Hi All,

This is another update for the MDZS series; it is time for the Nie Clan / Nie Sect build! Impure Realm!

The Impure Realm (不净世, Bùjìng Shì) is the residence of the Qinghe Nie Clan.

Among all the families, sects, or clans, the Nie sect perhaps is the least focused family in the series. Judging by the number of family members being very small, the role of the characters in the series is mostly supporting. I don't even know the name of their residence is Impure Realm, as it is very rarely mentioned in the series.

However, with such a little information, it leaves us with a room to explore and ideas. Here is the full look!

THE BUILD

Following Nie Sect's characteristics, I tried to make the building represent the family persona. Like other builds, I'm not building the lot from scratch. I found this beautiful build from EA Gallery that really represents the Nie Sect clan well, with a twist. The build stood on 64x64 lots, dominated by brown and dark colors. The residence consists of multiple buildings connected with pathways and gardens.

Although the name suggests an Impure/Unclean realm, the inside of the building itself is very beautiful. It is dominated by gardens, trees, and a beautiful bridge.

1ST BUILDING

Getting into the Impure Realm, you'll first arrive at the 1st building in the front of the area, greeting you with the grand entrance: the Nie Sect Leader's throne.

The space is dominated by dark colors, with seating and tables for the guests.

Dining Room in the 2nd Floor.

2ND BUILDING

In the second building, the space is dedicated for Spa and Gym room. The gym is located on the 1st floor. Spa rooms on the 2nd floor are divided into women's and men's rooms. On the 3rd floor, we have saunas and a shower area.

3RD BUILDING

The 2nd building next to the first building is used for the library and study area.

Between the first and second buildings, there is an outdoor yoga space where Nie Sects can have some time to relax and cleanse their mind.

4TH BUILDING

The magic/cultivation room on the 1st floor

The meeting room is on the 2nd floor.

MATERIAL ARTS AND SPARING SPACE

One area that I love the most is this sparing area. I use the dance floor as a sparing arena floor. Nie sect is identic with fights and power. I would imagine the Nie Sect leader would enjoy sparing matches between its students. Thus, I think having this sparing area with a special seat for the leader to enjoy the matches suits Nie Sect very well and is what makes this build unique.

5TH BUILDING / MAIN FAMILY BUILDING

The main family building is located in the back of the area. This is where the main family members do their activities and live.

We have a living room on the first floor with a modern kitchen and dining table. Among all sects/clans, I find the Nie sect would be the most warm and make their place very homey.

On the 2nd, you'll find bedrooms, and the 3rd floor is dedicated to the leader's room. He got his own big closet, nice bedroom space, and even his own study room.

OTHER SPOTS

There are other spots and areas that can be highlighted. I love this build, as it gives different vibes to the MDZS world I'm building in the Sims. It feels really humble, homey, and peaceful. That's why I called it a twist. The name of the building is Impure Realm, dominated by dark colors and lighting. However, it also has a nice big garden, blending well with nature.

Beautiful garden and pathways

Chilling and Community Space

Dormitory

I was surprised that I really enjoyed building this build so much, despite Nie Sect's less significant role in the story.

Feel free to reach me through DM to get the download link if you would love to play with this build.

See ya in the next post!

[peridot-tears]

I think a lot about how US-centrism is a really big thing, and something we USians commit whether we are conscious of it or not -- because, quite frankly, no matter how much we proclaim to dislike our country or want it to change, or straight up just want to leave it behind, it's already been deeply intertwined into our personalities.

But there's also that other factor where when it comes to fandom, we end up writing AUs set in the USA, because, well...that's still our home? That's what we're familiar with? So of course I want to play around and reimagine WangXian as diaspora Chinese growing up in New York, just like me. I think it'd be really funny to reimagine Arno as an exchange student who has to deal with NYU kids out here (I pity the man, NYU is an elitist nightmare). And if Tumblr is a US-based site, where most of us end up gathering, that's just math, right? There are going to be a lot of USians here writing about our experiences in this country, because they're the things that immediately affect us the most.

I don't think it's inherently bad to want to reimagine characters in the world we personally live in, but we do have to ask ourselves some hard questions about why we want to take these characters and put them in a setting that we are comfortable with. Would we appreciate them all the same if they were in a setting unfamiliar to us?

And if we were on a non-American site doing the same thing, and the people on that site got mad at us, how would we react? We have to be honest with ourselves.

Also, HUGE disclaimer:

This is not permission to whitewash characters.

If you're writing an AU with characters of non-American origin, do your research on their cultural norms.

Also, the USA is the "melting pot" or whatever the fuck you wanna call it, right. So is this character going to be an immigrant, a tourist, a tenth-generation American, or a second-generation American from another country's diaspora?

*Or are they Indigenous? In which case, what nation are they from, did they grow up on the rez, elsewhere, and what relationship do they have with their family and identity?

We should still think outside of our country. Realizing and acknowledging that we are raised to be ignorant of the world, and that our country holds a cultural Monopoly (i.e. our fucking media and entertainment are EVERYWHERE, and my roommate from Vietnam knows iCarly as well as I do, and I know someone from Nigeria who grew up on Johnny Bravo, just to name a few examples) are only the first step. We need to deprogram and see the rest of the world as a place that exists outside of us while still being affected by just how sprawling our influence is.

My personal experience:

I'm an immigrants' kid who grew up among other immigrants' kids in New York (note, I say "immigrants' kid," meaning I am explicitly not saying we immigrated, only that our parents did. People assume I came here just because I'm not white, which is some racist bullshit).

I have lived on other continents.

MDZS is easy for me because it's my culture. I've written them as diaspora Gen Z kids, Chinese people who grew up in mainland cities I'm familiar with, and in the canon Ye Olde China (Tang-dynasty-ish, but also a Ming-dynasty AU) setting.

I write French Frye in modern-day Paris and London very easily because as a USian, we're taught that "world history" is just "Western and Central European history." We're a Eurocentric society. Also, I've been in those cities and know people from there.

I struggle with writing Ratohnhaké:ton even though he is literally Indigenous to the land I grew up on (Kanien'kéha:ka were from upstate New York, just a day's drive from me, before colonization forced them to move further north). As a USian, that means I was taught the colonizers' attitude towards Indigenous folks, and despite all my research and talks with Indigenous folks to learn to be better, I will eventually trip up and accidentally say something racist or culturally offensive.

This isn't going to stop me from writing fanfic about him, but I'm gonna do my due diligence and consider the circumstances he would be in in a modern AU.

Yes, I want to write a modern-day AU where he goes to China and trains with Shao Jun, because I'm Chinese and I think that would be neat.

When I read modern AU MDZS fanfiction, I can tell who's not Chinese when I read about WangXian living in a house in China. I cannot emphasize how different the apartment-to-house ratio in most major Chinese cities is from the USA. I don't find it offensive, it's just a really strong tell.

If you're writing an AU set in NYC and there isn't a single "yerrrr" in it, you've already outed yourself (this is a joke).

[azems-familiar]

I am This Close to watching the untamed

So if you want to perhaps yell about it or something (since you’ve gotten me into stuff that way before) that could be cool idk

OH MY GOD PLEASE WATCH IT

okay to start with. the live action show is very good and a great place to start but it has some important differences from the novel and the donghua (animated show). i personally prefer a combination of cql (the untamed/the live action, that's the acronym i'll be using for it from now on) and the donghua; the novel suffers a lot of lost in translation effect and whatnot and i personally dislike the way the relationship is built in several places in it as opposed to how the adaptations do it, but it's definitely still worth reading. (dm me on discord if you want a copy of a pretty good fan translation of the novel and also like, a link to a place you can watch the donghua, btw.) other problems with cql: censorship hits the live action the hardest and their budget was i'm pretty sure basically nonexistent (they very clearly spent most of it on the costumes and the props, which you know what, the costumes are fucking stunning so great choice). so they changed the worldbuilding some and like.... the fight scenes? are really not good. they're really not good. also the special effects are universally pretty bad. it can make watching some parts of it difficult to get through, and there are some plot elements that are changed as well that i dislike, and a lot of the moral greyness of the original story had to get removed because again, censorship issues (if you want the most accurate, non-morally-whitewashed take first, you'll want to start with the novel, which is also what has the explicitly gay stuff). it's also not explicitly gay - but the actors played it as gay and there are multiple marriage metaphors and holy fuck like. honestly. there doesn't need to be a kiss or a confession or anything it's REALLY FUCKING GAY.

what cql excels in is its character interactions. the acting is absolutely stunning, the soundtrack is beautiful, and every single scene is just done with so much heart and emotion in it. so definitely keep that in mind going into it. i've watched it all the way through i think 3 or 4 times and i still keep seeing new fun details in the background that i hadn't noticed before.

the donghua, on the other hand, has an absolutely stunning art style, very very good voice acting, the worldbuilding and plot are more accurate to the book, and the magic and combat scenes are much more realistic for a fantasy and the powers they have. however, it, especially specifically the third and final season, is very rushed (and it has its own plot changes to fit how much they had to condense things, mostly just in the second half of season 3) and excludes some details, so it can be confusing if you don't know what you're seeing first. i recommend either watching cql or reading the novel first, then watching the donghua!

in terms of like, actual fandom stuff! so the main character of mdzs is, obviously, Wei Wuxian. i'm not sure how much you know but he's like. an incredibly ADHD man with horrible self-worth issues (despite being arrogant as hell) and a very strong sense of justice who is extremely brilliant and goes through a shitton of tragedy. he is known for inventing a viable form of necromancy, which is considered incredibly heretical and, among other things, gets him killed, and then gets him resurrected, so you know. pros and cons. he does magic by playing the flute. he is a disaster bisexual and also a bit of an alcoholic (okay a lot of an alcoholic) and i love him. his love interest is stoic and serious and incredibly autistic-coded and has been in love with him since they were teenagers and literally wrote him a love song. the two of them get trapped in a cave together and have to kill an ancient corrupted divine monster without weapons. it's very romantic. wei wuxian as a younger teenager is basically the epitome of a child pulling a girl's pigtails because he has a crush and is desperate for attention.

anyway, i'm not sure how much you know about the plot, but there's two timelines going on - the present and the past. the present is after wei wuxian is resurrected, and he and lan wangji (the love interest, in case you haven't picked up on the names yet - everyone has like two or three names and it can be hard to tell them apart at first) are basically going on a fun little murder mystery quest while also babysitting a bunch of teenagers which then abruptly devolves into politics, murder, more politics, and more murder. the past on the other hand goes from a high school definitely-not-a-romance to a goddamn war drama to politics and back to. hm. not exactly a war drama anymore but i'm really not sure how to describe everything that happens after a certain event. it's all very much a tragedy and the real "villain" of the story (which is less obvious in cql, again because of moral whitewashing due to censorship, though honestly i feel like they did a pretty good job of staying as true to the source material as they could all things considered, a whole lot of the scenes were word for word from the novel just slightly edited to fit the adjusted worldbuilding or plot changes) is the mob mentality, rumors and gossip and hearsay, and society itself!

lastly, because i am trying not to overwhelm you here, i am going to link you a couple great amvs i've found on youtube that will probably not make a lot of sense without context but will at least hopefully intrigue you?

and

and

the other one i really want to link i cannot because it definitely will make absolutely no sense without having watched the show and so you have to come talk to me when you've finished it so i can give it to you. also hey please feel free to come dm me on discord i Will ramble at length about this. especially about wwx he is my BLORBO and currently taking up residence in my brain. and also i need your live reactions if/when you start watching things oh my god

be glad it's almost 2 am and i'm still recovering from my covid booster or this would be even longer

[tinyavenuesailor]

Wei Ying’s  Deteriorated Reputation

You know one thing MDZS shows us is how fickle people truly are. People’s reputations are able to change in an instant especially when people either need you or want you gone. Wei Ying even though he agrees that Jin GuangYao was in the wrong, takes all the rumors of his actions, remembering what the world did to him when they turned their backs on him. 

Still, part of me started to wonder how did Wei Ying’s reputation deteriorate so quickly. He was fourth in list of top cultivator gentlemen in his generation, was a master of the six arts and although, he used demonic cultivation, made great contributions to the war. Even with Jin GuangYao, some people were hesitant to jump onto the boat that he was the “true villain” until given some pretty damning evidence and even then some had their doubts - Lan Xichen. There were still people who still had Jin Guangyao’s back despite him going off the deep end. So, how could Wei Ying’s reputation be so bad that not even anyone in the Jiang Sect would stand up for him? 

Then I remember that with exception of Wei Ying, Jiang Cheng and Jiang Yanli, everyone in the Jiang Sect is dead. And I let that sink in for a few minutes because I never though of how that might have affected the Wei Ying and Jiang Cheng other than the severe trauma they both obviously were not coping with. 

Correct me if I’m wrong but cultivation sects didn’t seem to me like just a place to train but there was this sense of brotherhood and sisterhood among the disciples. We only see a few scenes of Wei Ying interacting with the disciples but its obvious that they were close or at least he was on good terms with everyone. I get the sense that Wei Ying was well-loved and respected among the Jiang disciples. Like these would be the people that saw Wei Ying everyday, who cultivated with him, laughed with him, fought alongside with him. They would have been the ones who could vouch for his character and even stand-up to anyone that dared to speak down on their Head Disciple. 

After the Sunshot Campaign other than the Wen refugees, they were only four people who knew Wei Ying, Lan WangJi, Jiang Yanli, Jiang Cheng and Luo Qingyang. Two who were punished or ridiculed for speaking up or defending Wei Ying. They were completely outnumbered by his enemies.

And even though I think Jiang Cheng should have been more firm to not play into others mind games, I understand he’s a new Sect Leader battling with his own insecurities and trauma. If the Wens never attacked, Jiang Cheng would have been a Sect Leader, still with issues, but with a number of disciples he could trust and seek advice in. 

The Jiang Sect did rebuild themselves but Jiang Cheng and Wei Ying could never get back the people, the love, the security, the trust at the Lotus Pier. 

I just wonder what would have happened if even a few of the previous Jiang disciples survived. Would they have turned their backs on him too? Would they have defended him? Would they have praised their senior disciple to the newcomers? Would some of them have vouched for the Wen Ning and Qing that helped them escape? Would some worry for Wei Ying’s mental state?

Could Wei Ying relax knowing that there were still people out there that had his back? Could Jiang Cheng stand taller with more than one person proudly standing behind him?

Really makes sense that without each other they truly felt like they were alone in the world. 

[any-n-everything]

MDZS Characters play “Among Us”

Imagine... [Character: Username]

WWX: Suibian (Black)

LWJ: Wangji (White)

JWY: Sandu (Purple)

JYL: LadyLotus (Blue)

WQ: DrWen (Red)

WN: GhostGeneral (Pink)

LXC: Zewu-Jun (Cyan)

JGY: Lianfang-Zun (Yellow)

NMJ: Chifeng-Zun (Green)

NHS: Headshaker (Lime)

ROUND 1

NHS reports two bodies

Wen Ning and Wen Qing are dead

The other players theorize that it’s a double-kill

When asked if he saw anyone, NHS just keeps going, “I don’t know, I don’t know, I really don’t know!”

Skipped voting because they lack info.

2 Imposters remaining

ROUND 2

Jiang Wanyin reports a body

Jiang Yanli is dead

7 players left

JWY accuses WWX of being an Imposter because he last saw JYL with WWX

Everyone is sus of WWX

LWJ is the only one who protests, saying that he saw WWX perform a task

No one believes him because LWJ has a history of protecting WWX in Every. Game. They. Play.

WWX is voted out

Suibian was not An Imposter

2 Imposters Remaining

ROUND 3

JGY reports a body

NMJ is dead

5 players left

NHS accuses JGY

LXC hesitantly tries to defend JGY

NHS discreetly directs the conversation with pointed questions, leading everyone to sus JGY

LXC skips voting

JGY is still voted out

Lianfang-Zun was An Imposter

1 Imposter Remaining

LXC is dismayed

4 players left (LWJ, JWY, LXC, NHS)

ROUND 4

JWY reports a body

LWJ is dead

JWY immediately accuses NHS, saying that NHS killed LWJ right in front of him

NHS protests and anxiously defends himself

LXC believes NHS and votes against JWY

Sandu was ejected.

VICTORY. THE IMPOSTERS WERE JGY AND NHS.

WWX: Nie-xiong, that was well-played!

NHS: Thank you, Wei-xiong!

LWJ: Why did you kill me and not Jiang Wanyin?

NHS: Well, Wangji-xiong, if I killed Jiang Wanyin in front of you, then you would have told Er-ge, and he would believe you over me. And if I killed Er-ge, Jiang-xiong would have never believed me if I said that you killed your own brother. And I wasn’t sure if I could convince you that Jiang Wanyin was the Imposter because it’s very unlikely that he would kill Yanli-jie if he was.

LWJ: Mn.

JGY: A-Sang, why did you throw me under the bus :(

NHS: You killed Da-ge!!! >:(

NMJ: Yeah thanks for that

NMJ: Huaisang why the fuck can’t you be this smart with your schoolwork

LXC: I

LXC: I don’t know who to believe anymore

WQ: A-Ning and I are killing all of you when we become Imposters

WQ: Smh killing us off in the first round

JYL: A-Cheng I can’t believe you thought a-Xian killed me

JWY: Sorry a-jie...

JYL: Apologize to a-Xian!

WWX: Yeah ChengCheng!! You owe XianXian an apology!!!

LWJ: Mn.

[pumpkinpaix]

mdzs fandom, diaspora, and cultural exchange

Hey everyone. This post contains a statement that’s been posted to my twitter, but was a collaborative effort between several diaspora fans over the last few weeks. Some of the specifics are part of a twitter-localized discourse, but the general sentiments and issues raised are applicable across the board, including here on tumblr.

If you’ve been following me for a while, you’ve probably seen a few of my posts about this fandom, cultural exchange, and diasporic identity. For example, here, here, and here. This statement more directly criticizes some of the general issues I and others have raised in the past, and also hopefully provides a little more insight into where those issues come from. I would be happy if people took the time to read and reblog this, as the thought that went into it is not trivial, and neither is the subject matter. Thank you.

Introduction

Hello. I'm a member of a Chinese diaspora discord server - I volunteered to try and compile a thread of some thoughts regarding our place and roles in the fandom expressed in some of our recent discussions. This was primarily drafted by me and reviewed/edited by others with the hopes that we can share a cohesive statement on our honest feelings instead of repeatedly sharing multiple, fragmented versions of similar threads in isolation.

This was compiled by one group of diaspora and cannot be taken to represent diaspora as a whole, but we hope that our input can be considered with compassion and understanding of such.

For context, we are referencing two connected instances: the conflict described in these two threads (here and here), and when @/jelenedra tweeted about giving Jewish practices to the Lans. Regarding the latter, we felt that it tread into the territory of cultural erasure, and that it came from a person who had already disrespected diaspora’s work and input.

Context

The Lans have their own religious and cultural practices, rooted both in the cultural history of China and the genre of xianxia. Superimposing a different religious practice onto the Lans amidst other researched, canonical or culturally accurate details felt as if something important of ours was being overwritten for another’s personal satisfaction. Because canon is so intrinsically tied to real cultural, historical, and religious practices, replacing those practices in a canon setting fic feels like erasure. While MDZS is a fantasy novel, the religious practices contained therein are not. This was uncomfortable for many of us, and we wanted to point it out and have it resolved amicably. We were hoping for a discussion or exchange as there are many parallels and points of relation between Chinese and Jewish cultures, but that did not turn out quite as expected.

What happened next felt like a long game of outrage telephone that resulted in a confusion of issues that deflected responsibility, distracted from the origin of the conflict, and swept our concern under the rug.

Specifically, we are concerned about how these two incidents are part of what we feel is a repeated, widespread pattern of the devaluing of Chinese fans’ work and concerns within this fandom. This recent round of discourse is just one of many instances where we have found ourselves in a position of feeling spoken over within a space that is nominally ours. Regardless of what the telephone game was actually about, the way it played out revealed something about how issues are prioritized.

Background

MDZS is one of the first and largest franchises of cmedia that has become popular and easily accessible outside of China. Moreover, it’s a piece of queer Chinese media that is easily accessible to those of us overseas. For many non-Chinese fans, this is the first piece of cmedia they have connected with, and it’s serving as their introduction to a culture previously opaque to them. What perhaps is less obvious is that for many Chinese diaspora fans, this is also the first piece of cmedia THEY have connected with, found community with, seen themselves in.

Many, many of us have a fraught relationship with our heritage, our language—we often suffer from a sense of alienation, both from our families and from our surrounding peers. For our families, our command of the language and culture is often considered superficial, clunky, childish. Often, connecting with our culture is framed as a mandatory academic duty, and such an approach often fosters resentment towards our own heritage. For our non-Chinese peers, our culture is seen as exotic and strange and other, something shiny and interesting to observe, while we, trapped in the middle, find ourselves uprooted and adrift.

MDZS holds an incredibly important place in many diaspora’s hearts. Speaking for myself, this is literally the first time in my life I have felt motivated and excited about my own native tongue. It's the first time I have felt genuine hope that I might one day be able to speak and read it without fear and self-doubt. It is also the first time that so many people have expressed interest in learning from me, in hearing my thoughts and opinions about my culture.

This past year and a half in fandom has been an incredible experience. I know that I am not alone in this. So many diaspora I have spoken to just in the last week have expressed similar sentiments about the place MDZS holds in their lives. It is a precious thing to us, both because we love the story itself, and because it represents a lifeline to a heritage that’s never felt fully ours to grasp.

It’s wonderful to feel like we are able to welcome our friends into our home and show them all these things that have been so formative to our identities, and to be received with such enthusiasm and interest. Introducing this to non-Chinese friends and fans has also been an opportunity to bridge gaps and be humanized in a way that has been especially important in a year where yellow peril fear mongering has been at an all-time high.  

History

However, MDZS’ rise in popularity among non-Chinese audiences has also come with certain difficulties. It is natural to want to take a story you love and make it your own: that’s what transformative fandom is all about. It is also natural that misunderstandings and unintentional missteps might happen when you aren’t familiar with the ins and outs of the culture and political history of the story in question. This is understandable and forgivable—perfection is impossible, even for ourselves.

We hope for consideration and respect when we give our knowledge freely and when we raise the issue of our own discomfort with certain statements or actions regarding our culture. Please remember that what is an isolated incident to you might be a pattern of growing microaggressions to us. In non-Asian spaces, Asian diaspora are often lumped together under one umbrella. In the west, a lot of Chinese diaspora attach themselves to Korean and Japanese media in order to feel some semblance of connection to a media which approximates our cultures because there are cultural similarities. This is the first time we've collectively found community around something that is actually ours, so the specificities matter.

There is a bitterness about being Asian diaspora and a misery in having to put up a united front about racial issues. Enmity towards one group becomes a danger to all of us, all while our own conflicted histories with one another continue to pass trauma down through the generations. Many of us don’t even watch anime in front of our grandparents because of that lingering cultural antipathy. When the distinctions between our cultures are muddled, it feels once again like that very fraught history is flattened and forgotten.

Without the lived experience of it, it’s hard to understand how pervasive the contradictory web of anti-Asian and, more specifically, anti-Chinese racial aggressions are and how insidious its effects are. The conflation of China the political entity (as perceived and presented by the US and Europe) with its people, culture, and diaspora results in an exhausting litany of criticism levied like a bludgeon, often by people who don’t understand the complicated nature of a situation against those of us who do.

There is often a frankly stunning lack of self-awareness re: cultural biases and blind spots when it comes to discussions of MDZS, particularly moral ones. There are countless righteous claims and hot takes on certain aspects of the story, its author, and the characters that are so clearly rooted in a Euroamerican political and moral framework that does not reflect Chinese cultural realities and experiences. Some of these takes have become so widespread they are essentially accepted as fanon.

This is a pattern of behavior within the fandom. It is not limited to any specific group, nor does it even exclude ourselves—we are, after all, not a monolith, and we should not be placed on pedestals to have our differing opinions weaponized against one another in fandom squabbles. We are not flawless in our own understandings and approaches, and we would appreciate it if others would remember this before using any of us as ultimate authorities to settle a personal score.

It is difficult not to be disheartened when enthusiastic interest crosses the line into entitled demand and when transformative work crosses into erasure, especially when the reactions to our raised concerns have so frequently been dismissive and hostile. The overwhelming cultural and emotional labor we bring to the table is often taken advantage of and then criticized in bad faith. We are bombarded with racist aggressions, micro and macro, and then met with ridicule and annoyance when we push back. Worse, we sometimes face accusations of hostility that force us to apologize, back down, and let the matter go.

When we bring up our issues, it usually seems to come with the expectation that there are other issues that should be addressed before we can address ours. It feels like it’s never really the time to talk about Asian issues.

On the internet and in fandom spaces, Western-coded media, politics and perspectives are assumed to be general knowledge and experience that everyone knows and has. It feels like a double standard that we are expected to know the ins and outs of western politics and to engage on these terms, but most non-Chinese have not even the slightest grasp of the sort of politics that are at play within our communities. We end up feeling used for our specialized knowledge and cultural background and then dismissed when our opinions and problems are inconvenient.

As the culture represented in MDZS is not a culture that most non-Chinese fans are familiar with, we’d like to remind you that you do not get to decide which parts of it are or are not important. While sharing this space with Chinese diaspora who have a close connection to the work and the painful history that goes along with being diaspora, we ask that you be mindful of listening to our concerns.

Cultural erasure is tied to a lot of intense historical and generational trauma for us that maybe isn't immediately evident: the horrors of the Pacific theatre, the far-reaching consequences of colonization, racial tensions both among ourselves and with non-Chinese etc. These are not minor or simple things, and when we talk about our issues within fandom, this is often what underlies them. This is one of the first and only places many of us have been able to find community to discuss our unique issues without feeling as if we’re speaking out of turn.

With the HK protests, COVID, the anti-Chinese platforms of the US election etc., anti-Chinese sentiment has been at the forefront of the global news cycle for some time now, and it is with complete sincerity that we emphasize once again how important MDZS fandom has been as a haven for humanizing and valuing Chinese people through cultural exchange.

Experiencing racial aggression within that space stings, not just because it’s a space we love, but because it feels like we’ve been swimming in rapidly rising racial aggression for over a year at this point.

Feelings

This is a difficult topic to broach at the best of times, and these are not the best of times. Many of us have a wariness of rocking the boat instilled in us from our upbringings, and it is not uncommon for us to feel like we should be grateful that people want to engage with something of ours at all. When we do decide to speak up, we’ve learned that there is a not insignificant chance that we’ll be turned on and trampled over because what we’ve said is inconvenient or uncomfortable. When it is already so difficult to speak up, we end up second-guessing and gaslighting ourselves into wondering whether there really was a problem at all.

We’d like to be able to share what we know about our culture and have our knowledge and experience be taken seriously and treated with courtesy. This is a beautiful, rich world built with the history of our ancestors, one that we too are trying to connect with. When we find it in ourselves to speak up about it, we would appreciate being met with consideration instead of hostility.

We don't have the luxury of stepping away from our culture when we get tired of it. We don't get to put it down and walk away when it’s difficult. But if you're not Chinese or Chinese diaspora, you get to put this book down—we'd like to kindly request that you put it down gently because of how much it matters to all of us in this fandom, regardless of heritage.

What we are asking for is reflection and thoughtfulness as we continue to engage with this work and with one another, especially with regards to how Chinese issues are positioned. When we raise issues of our own discomfort, please take a moment to reflect before reacting defensively or trying to shut us down for spoiling the fun—don’t deprioritize our concerns, especially in a fandom for a piece of Chinese media. We promise most of us are not trying to start shit for the sake of a fight. Most of the time, all we want is acknowledgement and a genuine attempt at understanding.

Our hope with this statement is to encourage more openness and understanding between diaspora and non-Chinese fans while we navigate this place that we’re sharing. Please remember that for many of us, MDZS is far more intense than a typical fandom experience. Remember that the knowledge we have and research we do is freely and happily given, and that it costs us both materially and emotionally. Please don’t take that for granted. Remember too that sometimes the reason for our discomfort may not be immediately evident to you: what seems culturally neutral and harmless might touch upon specific loaded issues for us. We ask for patience, and we ask for sincerity as we try to communicate with one another.

We are writing this because there’s a collective sense of imposed silence—that every time the newest round of discourse crops up, we often feel as if we’re walking away having created no meaningful change, and nursing new wounds that we’ll never get to address. But without speaking up about it, this is a cycle that will keep repeating.

This is not meant to shame or guilt the fandom into throwing themselves at our feet, either to thank us or beg for forgiveness—far from that. We’re just your friends and your fellow fans. We are happy to have you here, and we’re happy to create and share and play together. We just ask to be respected and heard.

Thank you. Thank you for listening. Several of us will be stepping back from twitter for a while. We’ll see you when we get back. ❤️

* A final addendum: here are two articles with solid practical advice on writing stories regarding a culture other than your own.

Cultural Appropriation for the Worried Writer: Some Practical Advice

Cultural Appropriation: Some More Practical Advice

The thread on twitter is linked in the source of this post. Thanks everyone.

[verycharismaticdragon]

Hi! I absolutely LOVE ur detailed meta on tyk. Your analysis on wenzhou relationship is so in-depth and beautiful. I’ve seen that you think novel zzs is more traditionally masculine than wkx, and I agree. Actually, 20+ Chinese people who answered my poll agree that novel zzs is the most masculine among the 4 main characters in the tyk and shl (plus mdzs&cql wangxian)..

So, my question is: how do you think the gender performance & gender role of show wenzhou and novel wenzhou differ? If you think there is a clear difference, what’s your speculation about the reason behind such changes?

I am a Chinese person interested in gender norms in danmei novels/shows, and I would appreciate your insights on this!

So I've been sitting on this ask for a while because... well, the way danmei works approach gender is a fascinating topic and one that I'm interested in, but also one I’m largely unequipped to discuss in-depth, as I lack familiarity with 1) danmei genre and its conventions and trends, 2) Chinese cultural norms, historical and especially modern, and 3) academic studies on gender, – and I also don’t have neither time nor energy to go on a research binge right now, the way I did when writing TYK/SHL comparisons. Because of these gaps in knowledge, I can’t approach the topic from every angle and offer a thorough analysis; I want to make clear that I’m not accidentally missing possible approaches but rather intentionally skipping them.

That said, there are a couple of angles I can work off; perhaps those hypotheses will be of interest to you, or at least function as starting points for your own analysis.

–––––

The first point I want to speculate on is the one I’ve mentioned before, if vaguely: the way differences in WenZhou’s gender presentation in the novel stem from their contrasting approaches to social performance in general. Of the two, Zhou Zishu is much more concerned with appearances, the norms and rules of polite society instilled into him by his life in the capital (and perhaps by having to take up the role of Manor Master prior). Conversely, moving past that, taking off those literal and metaphorical masks and refusing to continue playing by the rules, is one of the central threads of his character arc; but his starting setting is someone who has trouble letting go of his previously established mindset. On the other hand, Wen Kexing, all throughout the text, is that person who ‘laughs when he wants to, plays the ruffian when he feels like it’ (quoting from memory, wording may be off). It’s not that he’s incapable of performing dignity (he is polite when he wants to be, e.g. when talking to Wu Xi or Long Que, or that brief time he and Zishu were putting on airs in front of Cao Weining); it’s more that he simply does not bother with conforming to social standarts (this very much includes him being openly gay and making it everyone else’s problem).

So, how does this reflect onto their gender presentation? (cont. under cut)

The way I read it, Zhou Zishu has a more rigid idea of masculinity and is more concerned about performing it, while Wen Kexing doesn’t much care how he comes off. Think about the use of ‘husband’ and ‘wife’ between them: Zhou Zishu very easily accepts the title of the husband, but still bristles at a mere implication of being considered the wife even five years later (last extra); Wen Kexing, on the other hand, doesn’t mind getting called the wife – there’s even an instance of him referring to himself as such in internal narration, if memory serves, – though he also thinks of himself as husband on occasion. Simply put, Wen Kexing’s gender performance is more relaxed, while Zhou Zishu asserts his gender identity every time there’s even an imaginary hint of him not being perceived as a man. In that way, the contrast between their presentations is not due to some innate qualities, but rather to the difference in the level of investment they have in maintaining appearances; if Zhou Zishu seems more masculine in comparison, it’s because he’s the only one putting in effort.

But this is for novel canon. I think that some part of a reason why show WenZhou’s gender performance doesn’t match up to their novel counterparts is that the more blatant indicators (such as husband and wife rp) couldn’t be shown, while their social performances are pretty different. Show Zishu’s arc does not follow the same trajectory of gradually discarding the constraints of society, – his decision to leave Tian Chuang isn't about feeling trapped in the political landscape but rather about losing faith in the cause, the motif of masks isn't built up, and so on, – which means that there isn't a basis for reading him as someone who puts on appearances and is used to following rigid social rules. Wen Kexing’s presentation also changed: the whole gentleman / literati vibe (carrying folding fan, playing xiao, quoting poetry every three lines) simply isn't present in the novel. Because of those changes, that contrast I spoke about for the novel doesn’t really exist in the show: Zhou Zishu isn’t as concerned with appearances, while Wen Kexing shows more effort at blending in with the society. (There’s even this small detail I happened to make note of: in the novel, after arriving at Zhao’s, there’s a hilarious bit where Zhou Zishu gets talked to by various people and, feigning politeness, replies to them all with basically the same phrase with only slight variation; in the show, it is Wen Kexing who does that instead.) And with that gap between their social presentations bridged, there's no longer a source for difference in the level of effort they put into gender performance either.

In fact, you could even take a step further and make an argument that, in SHL, the one more likely to put up a front is Wen Kexing, and therefore he is the one with heightened gender performance. Perhaps tie those added scenes of him drinking with girls to this, consider it as him faking hеtero-masculinity... But this is just a possible avenue to explore if you want to; I myself am not that interested in working out exact nuances for the show's canon.

Anyway, to conclude this section, – on the level of gender performance, novel Zhou Zishu actively asserts his identity, show Wen Kexing possibly plays his up a bit, show Zhou Zishu doesn’t exhibit any inclination, and novel Wen Kexing is canonically chill with however he is perceived. As for why there are differences, I think it's primarily a reflection of changes affecting their general social presentation, which all have different sources: Zhou Zishu’s character arc, especially a thread of exiting the society, was changed to accommodate added subplots; Wen Kexing's whole new vibe, I'm pretty sure, was a way to skirt c/nsorship (quite a number of instances of him meaningfully quoting poetry are replacements for blatant, unоbscured flirting from the novel); and honestly I still have no idea why a thread of Wen Kexing being the one to hide behind masks was added.

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Then, another angle this topic can be approached from is how conventions and cliches of hеtero-traditionalist romance narratives affect our perceptions of characters’ gender presentation in m/m fiction.

No matter how fed up we are with those cliches, we know them, and we know which role is associated with which gender in literary tradition (e.g., damsel in distress: the rescuer is a man, the one saved is a woman). But what happens when those tropes and conventions are employed for m/m stories? Those associations, those ‘narrative genders’ so to speak, end up projected onto characters regardless of their stated identity (or get appended to their stated identity, like the recently popular ‘malewife’ moniker). There’s a lot of criticism going around regarding m/m fiction perpetuating traditionalist gender roles, but I think it misses an important nuance: since most of the romance tropes and conventions originate in het fiction, those connotations end up existing regardless of authorial intent. Every little thing: who is the one courting and who gets pursued, who gets center stage in action scenes and who cheers from the sidelines, who shows more emotion (or does more emotional labor), who is naive and who is worldly, who gets rescued and who does the rescuing, and, yes, who takes which role in bed, – none of those are inherently gendered, yet all have gender connotations in fiction, because of the literary tradition existing prior. With near-everything having such association attached, is it even possible to completely avoid 'perpetuating gender roles'?

But I do believe this is something authors are aware of, and take steps to counter. In most danmei novels I've read (not that many, mind), each character would get some indicators of one role and some of another, so the overall impression would balance out. As an example, and to return to the topic at hand: consider how in TYK, Wen Kexing is the one pursuing, while Zhou Zishu is the one getting won over; yet at the same time, Zhou Zishu is the gruff and stoic one, while Wen Kexing is emotional and affectionate; and so on.

Because the story doesn’t stick either of the characters into a fixed ‘narrative gender’, all of those traits and actions just come off as differences in characters’ personalities rather than indicators of gender identity. Like, Wen Kexing gets called ‘wife’ in TYK fandom, but that’s largely because he canonically takes up the label; had novel WenZhou gone by husband & husband in canon, I think people would just as easily go along with that. (If my understanding is correct, there is a basis for Wen Kexing being designated ‘wife’ from standpoint of traditional spousal responsibilities as they are portrayed in Chinese pseudo-historical fiction, but, again, this is out of my range of knowledge; and above, I’m talking more about readers' impression.) All in all, when reading, you don’t get the feeling that either takes up a feminine role at all.

This is the situation for TYK as I see it. For SHL, even I, someone who does not go into that fandom's spaces, caught wind of the whole SHL!Zishu getting called ‘laopo’/’wife’ trend. Interestingly enough, from what I’ve seen, show Wen Kexing didn’t get ‘husband’ affixed to him as strongly; and of course, the label doesn’t originate in the novel (unlike, for example, people utilizing mdzs wangxian’s ‘spousal roles’ for cql fic/headcanons), being the opposite of what’s stated on the page; so what, exactly, about show Zishu ended up generating this impression? I’m not going to pretend at certainty, but to me, it feels like the balance of ‘narrative gender’ indicators was slightly off for him – not to the point of him being stuck in a role of female lead or anything, to be clear, but just enough to be noticeable and affect the viewers’ perception of his gender presentation. I’ve seen a few people’s theories on the reasoning behind the ‘laopo’ label, and other comments on SHL!Zishu ‘getting the part’ of the female lead, and all of them noted different things – particular scenes (hairpin scene was cited a few times), Zhou Zishu’s image (not looks but rather framing/light/costuming, if I recall correctly; been a while since I’ve read that piece), Zhou Zishu being physically affectionate and openly showing emotion... But I really don't think any one of those things would create such a strong and widespread impression; it is all of them together that ended up tipping the scales.

As for why show Zhou Zishu got all of those indicators piled onto him, when that wasn't the case for the novel version… My guess is that it wasn’t a deliberate decision on the writer’s part, but rather the consequences of other, largely unrelated changes coincidentally aligning that way, – and, obviously, I’m not going to track every single scene and character trait to its source, I’ve taken long enough with this ask as is. But I do want to outline what I feel might be a reason behind a significant amount of those adjustments: the show trying to make Zhou Zishu, and WenZhou, more immediately and easily likeable, for as wide an audience as possible.

Look, for any show, the sooner the viewers get invested into the main character and the main couple, the better. Problem is, on the surface, novel Zhou Zishu's sole likeable quality is the hilarious and scalding commentary going through his head, which is hard to translate onto the screen; and his adorable side is hard to notice, as he covers it up with gruffness or bluster. As for WenZhou, they are, to put it mildly, an oddball couple, which I personally find appealing, but I understand that's a bit of a niche taste. So, to compensate for that, the show smoothed down Zishu’s hard angles: made him less brusque, softer, more outwardly affectionate – there are even a few scenes where acts of care originally performed by novel Wen Kexing are done instead by Zishu, as if to try to distribute those actions more equally between the two, – and there’s no denying that it did have the intended effect, making show WenZhou more universally appealing; their popularity speaks for itself.

But it also just so happened that many of the character traits that got overwritten were exactly the ones that held up novel Zishu's masculine presentation – and thus, the impression the two versions of the character give off ended up noticeably different.

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And last one; as I said in the beginning, I'm not familiar enough with danmei genre to offer analysis from that angle – even if I have some theories, I can't vеrify them, at least not right now. Thus, what I’m going to write out next is only a guess, and anyone who has more familiarity with the topic is welcome to offer insight or correct me if I’m just plain wrong. So! Going off the way TYK is already subverting one of its genres, and also off it being published in 2010 and what I recall of m/m fiction disc/ourse back then, I wonder if Zhou Zishu’s presentation was meant to be a direct subversion of (or at least a response to) the stereotype of ‘feminine shou’. Again, I think the criticisms regarding m/m fiction ‘perpetuating gender roles’ are largely undeserved; yet I also wouldn't say that there isn't any stereotyping at all. But I don't know if it was prevalent enough in danmei works in those specific years for Zhou Zishu’s vibe to be a subversion; so this is just a guess.

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Well, I believe that's all I have to say on the subject. In closing, I want to once again clarify that this meta is incomplete intentionally. And also, that all this is based partially on my own impressions and partially on comments I’ve seen around, and even those two things are not entirely in harmony (for example, just because I see where laopo thing comes from doesn’t mean I agree with that evaluation), so it’s perfectly natural if you(general,reader) had a completely different impression and partially or fully disagree. Lastly, I’m open to any and all follow-ups! Can’t promise a coherent response, but can promise to give whatever it is a thought.

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- TYK meta masterpost - - SHL meta masterpost -

[cqlfeels]

I'm losing my mind over Wei Wuxian's death in the novel. I mean his death in the drama is very clear, no question, but in the novel it's quite ambiguous, isn't it?

It is assumed that Wei Wuxian died by his ghost army turning against him after he destroyed the Stygian Amulet. But it's just a brief mentioning of how happend, and not from wei wuxian himself, and I think that was the assumption of the people, and we all know we can't trust of rumor in that world.

Then Lan Wangji in the donghua confirmed that he knew Wei Wuxian did not die from his ghost army. And Wei Wuxian avoids the question, like he doesn't want to tell him how he died, maybe because it's too sad.

I mean, yes, the destruction of the amulet was the cause of his death, I understand this, but it was a conscious choice or an accident? Wei Wuxian should know that if the amulet is gone, he would no longer be in control over the angry ghosts and they would rebel against him. So it was a deliberate death? The price to pay? He didn't want that dangerous amulet ended up in other hands.

I'm saying this because in the novel he also mentioned that they tried to summon his soul, but he did not respond. So he didn't want to return to the living. And after he was forcibly summoned, he also made a sarcastic comment that the living refused to let him “rest in peace”.

This makes me believe that he wanted to die and to stay dead even in the novel. But I'm open to other interpretations, since the description of his death is so short and assumed by other people.

Thank you to read my endless doubts!

Oh no anon I'm so sorry for having taken an embarrassing amount of time to get to this ask! But it was such a good ask that I wanted to give it some attention!

Okay so WWX's death in the novel fascinates me. "Wei Wuxian is dead" is both one of the first things we read and the incident without which the novel can't happen. It's at the core of everything, but we just... Don't know much about it. Which plays into the themes of the novel!! What can we know, anyway? WWX is an extremely unreliable narrator, so even if he did outright say in the narration "This is how I died" we wouldn't know for sure that's something we can trust. Would he be telling all the facts, or just those relevant to the scene at hand? Even if he was telling all the facts, how would his emotions about it impact the way he told us this, and how can we take that into account?

In reading MDZS I'm reminded often of Murder on the Orient Express by Agatha Christie? Basically, that book has a structure where each chapter features a different character being interrogated about the murder of the title. It's up to the reader to discern, among things the characters know and don't know, are trying to hide or to highlight, feel strongly or don't care about, what the true version of the events is. This being a mystery novel, of course by the end of the book we're handed on a silver platter the full explanation of the hows and the whys that is The Official Author Explanation™️ that is inherently trustworthy as per genre conventions.

The difference is that MDZS robs us of that. There are mysteries within mysteries in the novel, but MXTX deliberately withholds any sort of inherently trustworthy narrative, while repeatedly cautioning us to not say "I understand" or "I know" unless we're sure we have all the facts - and even then, that's a risky thing to do.

I suspect MXTX does have an idea of how most mysteries of her novel are solved (maybe even all), but tbh what I love is that she doesn't give us the satisfaction of knowing these answers. MDZS lacks many resolutions. They're not plot-holes, it's not that it's impossible to come up with theories explaining her whole plot - it's the opposite. It's so easy to come up with opposing theories, but it's pretty damn near impossible to categorically find a theory that you can prove beyond reasonable doubt.

So this - gathering what WWX says about his own death, what other people say about it, what is said about other deaths, what is not said at all - is just so much fun for me. There are a thousand puzzles small and big that you could play with in this story. I mean, suppose you get WWX's death right. You immediately run into the MXY problem: we have a main character who kickstarts the entire plot, but what do we know of him except for rumors? WWX bases his understanding of him on his journal, but do we know for sure MXY wasn't writing the journal for WWX? You'll end up walking in circles because good luck finding passages where you can assert "This is MXY" without fear of getting caught in the trap all characters do in this novel: to equal your own beliefs and suppositions to an objective truth.

All of this is to say that this ask makes me super happy! But I can't for my life tell you "Oh this is what is going on, this is what you've missed, this is the key to the central mystery" because the novel tries so very hard to make sure I don't do that, that I feel it's a waste of fun to get too attached to any one theory. I'm with you that I think WWX did want to die and did want to stay dead (though I'm not entirely sure on the exact mechanics - was it active or passive suicide, if it was a suicide indeed?), but like. I'm basing this on my understanding of WWX, and uh.... Ask LXC what a rock-solid foundation "I'm pretty sure I know this person" is for a theory! So yeah. I'll take my cue from NHS instead and just repeat I don't know I don't know I don't know.

[ladyqueth]

Let’s talk about things that make WWX’s donghua character song 造化 (Zao Hua) amazing.

(If you haven’t heard it before, go!  Do it now!)

To start, the music is gorgeous.  You’ve got a dramatic intro, then the instrumentation drops to almost nothing, then builds back up across the verses.  It’s the same melodies but the instrumentation changes everything.  The first half-verse is very quiet, reflective.  At the start of the second verse, there’s an almost militant quality that I love, followed by the soaring strings right before the second chorus. The second repetition of the chorus is so much more intense than the first.

Within the overall buildup, there's a lot of ebb and flow. It's very dramatic.

Then, of course, the lyrics!

[Disclaimer: I am absolutely not qualified to translate this song.  I’m not trying to present a full translation, just translated snippets - tending on the literal side - to help non-Chinese speakers (among whom I count myself) appreciate what I’m talking about. Particularly questionable translations in italics.]

First, duality is everywhere.

Now, Chinese is full of compounds that are created by putting together words of opposite meaning, so their presence alone isn’t anything notable.  But there are lots of them.  (A disproportionate number, I feel, when compared to other MDZS song lyrics.)  And it’s not just in individual compounds.

Look at the hook(?):

宿命浅 情义深 造化 Our destiny was shallow[1], our feelings were deep, such is my good fortune

Which is immediately followed by:

风无羁 月无暇[2] The wind is without restraint, the moon is without flaw

Some examples of the frequent use of antonym compounds:

葬是非功过 Bury the right or wrong, merits and demerits

又一程 是非曲 善恶谣 Another journey, songs of right and wrong, good and evil

And then you have the epic bridge:

善与恶 后人说 孰真孰假 Good and evil, later generations will say who were true, who were false

神与魔 谁定夺 一分高下 Gods and demons, who determines the score as high or low

  Next, look at the way the chorus evolves. It's so beautiful, and it captures WWX's happy ending!

(I've read people say that the song is about his past, present, and future, and I think that's right. But it would take translating the whole song to fully capture that, and I'm already pushing my limits, so I'm just going to highlight some shifts in the chorus between the first two and the final repetition.)

Originally:

不羡仙 不谓侠 贪一世潇洒 Wanting a life confident and carefree[3] 宿命浅 情义深 造化 Our destiny was shallow, our feelings were deep, such is my good fortune 风无羁 月无暇[2] The wind is without restraint, the moon is without flaw 辗转几场冬夏 满坞莲花薄 Lotuses are scarce in the pier 葬是非功过 空牵挂

Becomes:

不羡仙 不谓侠 又一世潇洒 Another life confident and carefree[3] 守情义 何必问 代价 Why ask the price of honoring our feelings 笛无羁 琴无暇[2] The flute is without restraint, the qin is without flaw 同奏一曲年华 云深不知处 Cloud Resesses 你我的归途 Our way home 已无涯 is boundless

The change from Lotus Pier (basically) to Cloud Recesess! I can't. Every time.

  So that's about all that I can manage. Many thanks to @spicychickenyang for fielding all of my Chinese questions - she probably could have written most of this post herself with how much I pestered her.

  And, uh, I ended up with footnotes: [1] The implication of "shallow" destiny here is that fate was not on their side. [2] This is a typo in the lyrics! 暇 should be 瑕. [3] As far as I can tell, 潇洒 has a lot of nuance, and also is like one of WWX's signature adjectives, so I'm not going to spend more time here trying to do it justice.

Postscript: I randomly learned today that the phrase 不羡仙 in the chorus, which played no part in my gushing here, is a literary reference. (x)