#meta : naruto

[helenarasmussen87]

Sasuke and Naruto thoughts

I've been re-reading the series and I also got some of the novels so I'm just rambling about Naruto so just putting that under the cut.

I was talking to a friend about how Naruto and Sasuke are the true love story of the original and how it was choreographed and telegraphed no matter what. Sasuke knew he loved Naruto earlier, because Naruto needed to grow in that area and the last fight was their realisation.

I've read meta explaining this and maybe it's my background (I teach English and Literature) and the points are well thought out and make sense. But for the het ships, I just can't find compelling points unless it is a retcon, or things like the Retsuden novels.

And I am in the process of reading them and...Yikes. Especially Sasuke's story...which sadly reads like a fanfic of someone who didn't get what they wanted, so they're going to impose their own version and push for it being canon.

I guess what kind of scratched at my brain was that even in fanfiction, you still work from the canon motivatios and then go to town. At least, that's how I view it and you build it up from there.

Sasuke doesn't feel *real* in Retsuden. Yes, people can change, but with both Sasuke and Naruto...They are twin flames. Whether they meet up at the Shag Shack once every two weeks while they take care of the village is beside the point. They both come first in each other's lives.

(And it is heavily implied even in the new canon that's always the case. I think Sarada and Boruto have stated this in so many words. And their wives know, but they want their men (prizes, status symbols), so they adhere to this, even though everyone is pretty miserable no matter what way you paint it)

But all of Sasuke's actions, like the ring and being all over Sakura don't work due to what we see of him before. There's no building up to him getting to that point. He has a thing with Naruto because they grow together. Sakura and Sasuke don't. Naruto and Hinata don't.

There's never this separation between them, like in other media where the partners establish they're done with each other. Or not.

And it reminded me of the 2003 Battlestar Galactica, where despite Starbuck and Adama trying to leave each other, and marrying other people...The tie was always strong between them. No one ever loved them like they loved each other.

Lee Adama's wife knew this and tried and he did too. Starbuck and her husband too.

Adama and Starbuck basically show everyone how strong that tie is when they get into a ring and end up going from a friendly boxing match, to them beating each other bloody and then both acknowledging what is between them.

And I immediately thought of Valley of the End. Because it was exactly that.

There is no real defining moment for the het couples in Naruto like that. It's all very "Yes, well get the epilogue cleaned up" and go on to the sequel.

Like no other scene with the canon couples lived up to that intensity and that love. Both declarations of love were ignored. Domestic life is distant and cold and there's no real connection. Like when Sakura buys flowers for when Sasuke comes home as if to erase all of his absences. Or how Naruto falls asleep watching a romance with Hinata and his son is there playing video games...together, yet apart.

Yet we get time and time again, proof that Naruto and Sasuke's connection that is still thriviing despite the burdens they each shoulder. They are connected and meet frequently and still just come alive when they are together.

They parent each other's kids! Naruto mentors Sarada and Boruto is Sasuke's apprentice. Talk about setting up the blended family here.

So that's why the Retsuden was so jarring because one, Sasuke went on a mission to help heal Naruto's illness. That was his main reason. The other stuff is so discordant with what we've been presented with.

And it's mostly in this one, since the last Sasuke novel emphasized how much Sasuke valued Naruto over everything. The about face is not set up for showing that. Or for him to play happy families and be some sort of prize for Sakura to show off.

I thought about it and I know this is why I am annoyed. It's not the story, but the poor story telling and shoving elements which do not belong in it and sell it as a love story.

It is worrisome because these couples are the textbook example of "We married young and now that the flush is gone and reality set in...We have nothing in common. And we're staying together for the kids"

Whereas Naruto and Sasuke grew into their relationship and that's why them being apart doesn't matter. That thread is always there and that's why they work as lovers and a couple when these other ones don't.

Temari and Shikmaru, Ino and Sai, and Asuma and Kurenai as well as Minato and Kushina work, because we see the organic growth and how they support and mutually respect each other. Ino has emphatically stated that she wouldn't stand for that kind of marriage if it were her. Shikamaru and Temari both train with their kid and work together. Asuma and Kurenai were never really shown together, but there were enough hints to show their love for each other. Minato and Kushina had history from since they were kids.

Even Fugaku and Mikoto had a relationship that was believeable.

So it can be done. But not with this and that's why it feels like cheap writing. And why it fails.

[sad-stucky-shipper-107]

Im literally on episode 48 of Shippuden and Naruto literally said " If my arms get torn off, I'll kick him down. If my legs get torn off I'll bite him down. If my head gets torn off I'll stare him down. If my eyes get torn out I'll curse him from the grave. Even if I get chopped up in pieces, I'll take Sasuke back from Orochimaru" WORD FOR WORD.

WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME NARUTO WAS CANONNICALLY INSANE ABOUT SASUKE?! WHAT THE FUCK?!

THERE'S SUBTEXT AND THEN THERE'S WHATEVER FUCKING UNHINGED SHIT NARUTO IS ON. GIRL YOU ARE MORE OBSESSED WITH SASUKE THAN FUCKING SAKURA IS.

[mdr-reikas]

So, if you've been following me for a while, you might remember this unspecified naruto character that I have a feud going on with. While I was rewatching the Chunin exams arc 2022/23, I spotted this old fuck:

If you remember this time period of me posting, you might also know that I was quite pissed at him. He didn't do anything, but why is this minimum fourty year old fuck here??? That's not a shinobi, that's a distinguished gentleman. Get him out of the army. My man literally has his hitai-ate tied in a bow?? Hello??

But. It gets crazier.

you might think that this is a regular screenshot of mr.bow but NO! This is him still sitting in the exams room after the tenth question was asked. BOW MAN PASSED THE THEORETICAL CHUNIN EXAMS. That's crazy! This man probably was in the forest of death, IN THAT OUTFIT.

And if you thought that was all. Here's my new discovery-

HE'S CANON. HE EXISTS IN THE NARUTO MANGA THIS IS AN ACTUAL CHARACTER. NOT JUST SOME FUCKER MADE UP BY STUDIO PIERROT.

[nail-art-no-jutsu]

🍅

Here's why I really love Sasuke and Itachi's parents, and why it makes complete sense that he'd want justice for them. Pro all these characters.

There's a lot that can be said about how Mikoto and Fugaku raised Itachi, how the boys got compared to each other, and how more often than not parents get more practice with parenting the more children they have, and so the last child gets to know them at a different parenting skill level...

But.

It really says a lot that Sasuke was able to actually go ahead and ask his mother a very difficult question for a child. It's easy to imagine that it's not the first time he came to her with a tough question, and it shows that she was a safe person for him to talk to.

And I like what she replied, too. I love how calm she was, a lot of parents and caregivers would absolutely take it personally and punish the child for daring to ask such a thing. Not Mikoto. She's listening.

Then she tells Sasuke that it only seems that Fugaku is paying more attention to Itachi because he's older and one day he will inherit his father's position. And more importantly,

Mikoto explains that basically Fugaku is generally sullen and awkward but it doesn't have to mean anything, and when they talk in private, he does talk about Sasuke all the time.

And if mother says that father talks to her about him, it's enough for Sasuke, he doesn't need to hear his father's words with his own ears. He doesn't sit there wondering, well great but what if I had never asked, because that kind of world isn't possible for him. He lives in a world where it is safe to ask his mother such things.

Right after that, Fugaku arrives and they have tea together. Sasuke doesn't feel comfortable asking why exactly his father and Itachi fought, at least not right now, but he does ask about the Sharingan, and says he'll master it one day because he is his son, which makes Mikoto smile:

She's glad to see that Sasuke is already acting like a boy who knows that he's important to his father, who never doubted that. He's acting like this to see if what Mikoto said really is true, and she doesn't take this personally either. She knows that Fugaku will respond in a way that Sasuke will appreciate.

And then the best thing happens.

Sasuke is brave enough now to talk to his father the same way he talked to his mother just earlier. If he wasn't safe to ask stuff like this before, he is now. He responded well to Sasuke's first question, about the Sharingan, and now he's asking something a lot more personal. He doesn't wait for Fugaku to leave so he can ask Mikoto instead.

We're shown that Fugaku is the same as Mikoto in the sense that he doesn't reject Sasuke just for asking such a thing, or even for thinking it, like many parents are capable of doing, he takes his question seriously, he doesn't even always have to be awkward, he trusts his young son with something surprisingly vulnerable:

So in short:

Sasuke: mom, why doesn't dad pay attention to me? also Sasuke: dad, why doesn't my brother pay attention to me?

Basically, even though Sasuke did have some difficulties at home, we see that both his parents were in fact open to communication, and I'm getting the impression that they regret not being able to do better with Itachi. In any case, Sasuke can be confident after this that both his parents care about his feelings, and that he can ask them anything. That if more problems appear they can be solved through communication.

How many children have parents like that?

And who wouldn't want to turn the world upside down to avenge them?

P.S.

I also think that this is what enabled Sasuke's interest in the truth later on, to the point that he would resurrect the previous Hokage to hear it. He's always been a questioner, and it was never frowned upon or rejected, he was loved unconditionally underneath it all, even if it did take, well, a bit of questioning to learn that.

Yeah!! 🍅🥰🤗

I bet they would have been the best in-laws too lol

[edai-crplpnk]

I just saw someone say it would have been a fitting narrative for Gai to die during the war and I'm gonna explode.

Gai's narrative is that he built his entire life around the idea that the best thing he can do for the people he loves is to destroy himself until it eventually kills him. And then it doesn't.

Gai and Kakashi surviving the war despite being set on dying there and actively trying to is capital to their narrative and development. They didn't survive because of plot armour or fan service. They are not saved by the narrative. They are doomed by the narrative. They are forced to live when they were explicitly and voluntarily seeking to die. They are forced to consider that they may have something to give to the people they love that is not self-destruction. They are forced to change the vision of themselves and their lives that they've built and fed since they were teens that their value needed to be proven and found in martyrdom, for they could not possibly be more useful by living.

Dying in the war would have been easy. Dying in the war was the goal. dying in the war would have fit the narrative they set for themselves, but their whole story is about how this narrative is forcibly taken away from them. And that's good.

[gwen-starkk]

[jaguarys]

I think what makes Sasuke so painful is that there's no way out. There's no way to recover from what happened to him. There's just no way to exist after your entire family is killed by your favorite person in the entire world.

And then once he learns that it was actually the village's fault? Now the only solace he had. The only place he thought was safe. Is just as tainted. Just as culpable. Fucking of course he unravels further. There's just. There's no way to return from that.

Ultimately, that's why the others can't do anything about it. Because what can you say in that instance to comfort this person? To bring them back to the light? There's nothing you can say because it's just too much. There's nothing you can say that can mean anything real or substantial

[notsorryiml8]

He only had them for 6-7 months??

Looking at a timeline and watching the Land of Waves and Chuunin exams again (how far we've made it so far with the niece and nephew) and just realized how short of a timeframe Part I really is, that in Part I, Kakashi only had Team 7 for 6-7 months before it all went downhill/Sasuke left!!! I don't know why that blows my mind. SIX -SEVEN MONTHS! By the end of Part I to Shippuden and time spent with sensei/mentors, it's like:

Iruka/The Academy : 5 yrs

Kakashi : 6-7 months (months,people, months)

Jiraiya/Tsunade/Orochimaru : 2 - 2.5 years

When looking at it like this, I really think people/fans expected WAY too much out of Kakashi. He started with the traumatized-youth-of-the-year team and had only MONTHS to work with them and from the ground up. Subtract the time he was gone on missions, in the hospital and/or comatose (looking at you Itachi) and that gets knocked down to maybe 4-5 months. He spent less time with them than any other sensei and did a remarkable job for what he was given. I think all of this to say, give the man some grace. That was wild.

When all was said and done, what he did for this little rag-tag team of traumatized feral orphans + Sakura was more than amazing. SIX MONTHS, people, six months. Well, maybe seven, but still...let that sink in. I think people fail to acknowledge this when they call him a "bad sensei-" can't believe people are still doing that years later(!). Let any of the other jonin sensei do what he did in six months and with the team he was given - any of y'all try working with traumatized prepubescents and see how long it takes for them to work together?? I do every.single.day. They're all about survival and living in that trauma mind. Trust? What's that? Teamwork? Nope, gotta look out for me. Then you go and put them on a team with Captain Trauma, himself. Smart move Lord 3rd, smart move. Yeah, yeah, yeah I get it, only other Sharingan, control 9-tails, son of your sensei, blah blah blah. Poor Sakura, btw. Poor little thing didn't know what she had gotten herself into.

I dunno, I just don't think people ever see it from this perspective - that he literally only had them for months. Guy's team - already had a year together. Asuma's team - InoShikaCho were predestined wombmates. Kurenai's team - they were well-adjusted (Shino's the most laid-back person you'd ever find; just give Kiba a puppy; and who can ever get mad at Hinata, well, other than her family).

Traversing other corners of the interwebs and didn't realize just how much Kakashi hate dislike scorn "non-like" there is out there even now. It's wild. All this to say, just showing Kakashi-sensei some love. ❤️ and respect.

[sassykinzonline]

can i say something controversial

i think the reception to sakura would be more like kakashi's (generally not divisive) if her "fans" accepted her as the person she was instead of trying to lie that she isnt that person. like the girl is petty, manipulative, bull-headed, shallow, arrogant and delusional and sometimes its fucking funny. shes gaslight, gatekeep, girlfail. kakashi fans tend to acknowledge hes some pathetic decrepit burnt out porn addicted furry surrogate dad who gets his ass beat and never got over his childhood crush on a kid who hated him, and they love him for it. i feel like when people are like "girls dont have to be nice or likeable!!!" and then try to whitewash sakura it kind of...defeats the purpose?

man idk i guess because its a shonen people cant deal with a "good guy team member" thats actually super fucking unpleasant lol

[pr1ncessasuke]

Why Sasuke's Physical Beauty Matters

Thinking about this again, Sasuke’s characterization is super interesting to me, especially how he’s physically characterized with his beauty.

Firstly, I think his extra stylized, iconic “duck butt” hair is integral to his character. It’s spiky and edgy, meant to be rebellious. He’s the ultimate revolution. Even Naruto and Itachi had pretty normal hair! But in Boruto, Sasuke's hair looks plain and flat (neutral terms--not a diss to other people with this hairstyle). The edges are completely gone--matching his newfound conformity and detachment.

And further, why is he canonically attractive and what does it mean? I think the army of Sasuke admirers Kishimoto depicts throughout OG Naruto and Shippuden adds to his characterization as the anomaly—the one who goes against the grain. He questions the chunin exams and analyzes why and how they take place. He challenges the status quo in Konoha. Kishimoto actually keeps up with this motif whereas he seems to forget about other motifs (ahem, the Hyuga clan curse).

Sasuke's beauty also emphasizes his determination and focus. He could have had anyone he wanted but remained disinterested even as an emotional teenage boy. Kishimoto even has Sasuke call it out when Kakashi brings up Sakura’s feelings, with Sasuke literally saying, “I don’t see why I should love her and why she should love me.” (Now, I will add an important caveat that in an ideal world, I don’t think he’ll stay this disinterested forever, because Sasuke too deserves love and healing once he’s ready for it and grows up more. People don't stay stagnant, and trauma deserves to be healed).

Sasuke is fiercely single-minded and driven, and is a character that acts as a foil to the protags, the main narrative, and Kishimoto furthers these motifs through Sasuke's physical characterizations.

[aribluart]

Getting the sharingan? No problem. But one tomoe is overrated, why not directly two.

Oh, "sharingan sharing" is clan-exclusive? Too bad. Also, never asking that sharingan back? And, the two sharingan can "harmonize" (the italian translation use a similar word) and let Obito and Kakashi share sight, hearing and mind? Yeah, Obito absolutely has no feelings for Kakashi, no way that is the reason for him to make a self-destructive choice, what a foolish theory.

Honestly, I don't know (no really, Madara, what do you mean Obito "passed through" the rocks???? Before he get his Mangekyou sharingan????).

A dimension that is accesible only by two people? How that is even possible,only Kaguya could travel between dimensions, apparently five and Kamui it's not one of them. Obito, what the fuck.

[skykashi]

Okay, I'm going to say something because I've been seeing the fandom crapping on Hinata for being a housewife since the end of Naruto and it just doesn't sit well at all with me, so before saying anything just to clarify, Hinata isn't even among my top ten favorite characters so I'm absolutely neutral here but I keep seeing memes like this

And jokes being made about her and that "eVeRYoNe iN hEr gENeRaTioN iS dOiNg imPoRtAnT jOBs wHiLe sHe's mObBiNg aNd cLeAniNg" and stuff and like, I don't understand what's wrong with being a housewife?!!! What's wrong with choosing the life that you actually want? If someone feels like their kids and house is their priority and that they want to dedicate their life to it, then good for them! Good for them for knowing what they want and going for it, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that!. Hinata was told since she was born that she's the Hyuga clan's heiress who's expected to train and be a strong ninja so she can lead her clan after her father, just because she happened to be born as his eldest child and she had to live through the constant disappointment of her father her entire life and yet when she grew up, she went against all of that and actually chose what she wants for her life not what was expected of her, despite the pressure of her clan and father and traditions, at the end she chose to do what she wants for her life not what they wanted her to be, and that actually imho makes incredibly strong because strength is not just about muscles or super alien ninja powers, it takes a lot of courage and strength to go against your society/clan/family and do what you know is right for you not what they think you were born to be. And you know what? Domestic work is still important hard work and having a job doesn't make anyone more superior than a full-time Stay-at-home parent who doesn't always have the luxury of having weekends, days off and annual leaves or sick leaves, who can't just take a break and abandon their responsibilities no matter how tired or sick they are.

[achilleslyre]

i feel that so many people seem to take the basis of naruto and sasukes characterization and switch them…. i see too many people infer naruto is made of happiness and love while sasuke of hate and anger but i have always seen naruto as a character that is full of hatred and anger and he has to let go of that with the love of others. sasuke as a character is so full of love yet he has to follow that through with grief and anger and learn to bear others hatred.

naruto never really had the heaviness of love in his heart until he went through the process of controlling kuramas chakra and had to confront the hatred inside him. frankly it says it blatantly that he had always held hatred in his heart for the situation he was forced into and the way the village treated him because of it, until he was able to accept and move past that hatred and have love for kurama and his dad and the people of his village. so i genuinely don’t understand where this notion that naruto is just pure sunshine and happiness came from. sasukes whole story starts out with wanting revenge on his brother because he loves his family and his clan so much. it’s a constant clear notion that he hurts so bad from his brother’s betrayal because he loved his brother, and that his rage against konoha is because he loved his clan that konoha sanctioned a genocide of. it’s constantly stated that the uchiha hold intense love in their hearts.

it’s sasukes connection with the people around him that formed his love where it’s the lack of that connection that formed narutos hate…. the way they expressed their emotions is very different because they’re both in insanely different scenarios no matter how much they understand the others pain. narutos hatred makes him want to finally receive the love that the village never gave him, but sasukes love makes him want the village to experience the pain that they inflicted upon him and his clan… maybe sasuke expresses his love more negatively and maybe naruto expresses his hate more positively, but that doesn’t change the fact that sasukes actions came from a place of love and narutos actions came from hate. they just needed each other to balance the other out….

[mixelation]

One thing that took me YEARS to figure out was why people attack Sakura for that scene where she says, "Well, I'm on a diet anyway!" and then offers Naruto her lunch.

I always thought it was because people act weird that Sakura was actively dieting at the very beginning. Like, she IS dieting. She admits she skipped dinner for her diet, and then it immediately becomes obvious that was a bad idea. We never hear her bring it up again after the bell test IIRC, so presumably either she dropped it or it never had a real impact on her.

Criticizing a twelve year girl for dieting alway seemed very weird to me, because we DO know sexism exists in-universe and people judge women by their appearances. So I would infer Sakura is getting similar messages to real world girls, which is why she diets. It's not good for her, and I don't mind fics where an adult has a reasonable conversation with her about it, but it's not a personality flaw that merits her being berated and hated. (In fact, if you think it's okay to treat a young girl choosing to diet that way, then fuck you?)

So I always thought people claiming Sakura offering her food to Nauto was bad were just attacking her for the reminder to the audience that she's on a diet. And then one day I realized:

A lot of people think she was being completely serious that she didn't care about the food due to her diet, and that was the reason she gave it to Naruto, not out of compassion or because she took Sasuke's reasoning seriously.

Which? Like? It seemed VERY obvious to me that she was just saying that to save face. "I'm on a diet!" is just an excuse she gives to maintain her image. Sakura thinks Naruto is annoying and uncool, but she doesn't hate him. She doesn't want bad things to happen to him. But she DOES want to still seem cool in front of him and Sasuke, for whatever value a twelve year old thinks is cool. So she gives him her lunch because she wants him to eat, but she yells some excuse so it doesn't sound like she's sacrificing anything for him.

That moment was Sakura actively being kind to Naruto, and learning to work with him. She's not a monster, JFC.

[comikadraws]

sasuke was going to genuinely plan out a genocide and it wasn't something he said in a fit of rage, right?

Was Sasuke Uchiha genocidal?

(2k words of analysis, manga screenshots, and other resources)

To refresh everybody's memory, Sasuke's plan was to destroy Konoha and everybody in it. Not that he actually did but those were his own words.

Now we can interpret this in two ways

Sasuke is blinded by rage and would, in a hypothetical scenario, act on his words (Sasuke is genocidal)

Sasuke is being dramatic and/or would get cold feet when confronted with the scenario (Sasuke is not genocidal)

In my opinion, the first scenario is far more likely to occur and the second lacks sufficient evidence to reasonably rule out that Sasuke is genocidal.

>>Analysis under the cut<<

Let's establish a few things before we begin. But feel free to skip to the next headline.

First, I will judge attempted crime as harshly as committed crime. Since this is not real life, there is no need to reward incompetence or luck. Either way, the focus of this discussion is Sasuke's intent and resolve.

Second, fictional characters don't exist in flesh and blood but as part of a narrative. This means that a character's decisions and psychology heavily depend on the author's intent.

Third, I love Sasuke's character. Do not misunderstand this as hate. This is an analysis of Sasuke's psychology and actions. He has been wronged in horrific ways and deserved better, but that won't make me sanitize his character.

Fourth, the red links are context links, linking back to my own posts. I highly recommend reading them.

The Sincerity of Sasuke's Death Threats

Sasuke rarely jokes around or speaks from a place of uncertainty or dramatics. He says he'll kill Danzo? You bet he does. He says he'll kill Itachi? He does. He says he'll kill Naruto? He tries that as well. Granted, two of these deserved to die (from Sasuke's POV) but what matters here is that Sasuke's threats are meant to be interpreted as sincerity rather than hyperboles.

Not that Sasuke never goes back on his words though, as is the case with the ending (although it is arguably a character inconsistency). The one of the few other time he takes back a threat (chapter 177) it is not a direct threat but an implied one that is based on a hypothetical.

Back then he reconsiders his words - but not really because he retroactively notices he didn't mean them but rather because Kakashi pulls an uno-reverse on him. Afterward, he has 3-4 years to spend on introspection only for him to repeat his threat in chapter 416. Sasuke readiness to induce harm to innocents does not appear to be spontaneous or ill-considered.

Sasuke generally hesitates every now and then. Like when he ends up sparing Naruto after he is knocked unconscious. Or sparing Dosu because Sakura begs Sasuke to stop.

But those moments occurred at an entirely different point in Sasuke's character arc at which he is rapidly bouncing back and forth between cruelty and mercy. More on that later.

The Devolvement of Sasuke's Morals

Sasuke acts entirely differently after the truth reveal. His morals have visibly changed for the worse. Perhaps it becomes the most apparent when comparing chapter 8 to chapter 481. Whereas Genin Sasuke would once help and support his teammates if they could not keep up on their own, a teenage Sasuke disposes of them.

This kind of development first occurs as early on as chapter 56 when Sasuke decides that growing stronger (ends) justifies carrying a curse mark (means). He is on a steady moral decline afterward, first willing to sacrifice his loyalties (Orochimaru), then uninvolved bystanders (Killer B, the other Kage, other shinobi, and samurai), and finally, a friend (Karin) all in pursuit of his goals. It is utilitarian in nature.

Also, please let's not discuss the validity of killing soldiers. We have already dealt with this question during Waves Arc and later when Itachi died. From Sasuke's and other characters' POV (and as evidenced by chapter 343), dehumanizing and discarding a person just for being a soldier on the wrong side is wrong.

What happened to Sasuke over time is, of course, a character arc. A corruption arc, to be specific. Let's make a quick trip.

A character arc is initiated by some sort of trigger event. If said event lies between a version A and B of a character, chances are that their sympathy, competence, or proactivity have become incomparable to each other. This is why a 13-year-old version of Sasuke (pre truth reveal, which is his trigger event for this specific arc) does not inform us about the workings of a 17-year-old version.

Before this triggering event, Sasuke is also in the midst of a turning point in his arc, hence the indecisiveness about killing Naruto. You can view this in parallel to the Hero's Journey's "Refusal of the Call" during which Sasuke is still hesitant about the road he is taking until the triggering event makes the decision for him.

Now, back to Sasuke's morals. Personally, I believe what stands at the helm of Sasuke's corruption arc is a decrease in self-awareness and a growing lack of empathy.

There's a certain hypocrisy to Sasuke's decision-making. Sasuke is grieving a brother but then attacks somebody else's brother. He is enraged about Konoha discarding Itachi as a tool but will then proceed to abandon his own comrades (Team Taka). He condemns the genocide committed against the Uchiha but then plans a genocide of his own. Injustice is only injustice if inflicted on Sasuke but not if caused by Sasuke.

This does not compare to a younger Sasuke, who uses his own trauma to understand and connect with others and to discern right from wrong. Sasuke is capable of empathizing with Naruto because he is lonely (like himself) and Sasuke finds Orochimaru "disgusting" for viewing humans as mere tools (like a genocidal Itachi). But, over the course of his arc, his trauma instead turns into a weapon to distance himself from others.

The in-universe reason for this change is likely that Sasuke's mind is fully occupied with his own grief and rage. He is blinded by it, so much so that he no longer has the mental space to accommodate other people's pain and suffering.

There is also a narrative device to this, usually applied in the "darkest hour", such as "Batman Grabs a Gun". The purpose is to draw attention to the severity of the situation while also providing more depth to a character by giving them an underlying layer (their emotions/struggles/etc.) beneath their facade (their morals/reputation/etc.).

In Sasuke's case, this is used to highlight his grief for Itachi which is greater than any moral principle Sasuke has.

Intensity and Duration

So, Sasuke is definitely blinded by his rage. But is it a "fit"? I suppose that this is a matter of definition.

Sasuke's hatred for Konoha appears to be a constant. It doesn't change. It doesn't lessen. Not after a couple of hours and not after a couple of days.

To me personally, due to its duration, this is no longer a fit of rage but a mindset - one that Sasuke seems to wholeheartedly believe in.

Regardless of this, we have no indication that Sasuke's rage would lessen anytime soon. On the contrary, actually. Sasuke claims that his hatred has only grown since then.

The question we now have to ask is whether or not Sasuke would be able to rein in his rage in time to spare innocent lives. Alternatively, and combined with Sasuke's willingness to kill his own teammates, it is entirely possible that Sasuke's rage would power through, as it did for approximately 300 chapters in canon.

The Attempts

Now, the most damning argument I have to offer is that Sasuke was already intending to make his genocide plans a reality (or take steps to do so) on three occasions. Twice during the Summit Arc and once during the War Arc.

On all three occasions, the reason why his plans don't come to fruition is because Sasuke gets sidetracked or stopped outright.

In addition, there are three other problems slowing him down. Right in chapter 416, Kisame explains that Sasuke is not strong enough to fight the entire village - even with Taka's help but even more so without them. This conflicts with Sasuke's belief that Taka likely won't approve of his genocide plans or should not be involved for other reasons (which is why Sasuke pretends in front of them). He both needs Taka and has to get rid of them.

Later on, Naruto declares that he will always be there to defend Konoha against Sasuke. My interpretation of this is that Sasuke not only honors his bond with Naruto but also recognizes that fighting Konoha and Naruto simultaneously is not strategically wise - hence he needs to defeat Naruto beforehand.

First Attempt

Sasuke takes Team Taka with him, believing them to be necessary backup. Then Obito intervenes who both threatens Sasuke and gives him the wrong impression that Konoha is "no more" - either fully eradicated or too weak to defend itself.

This might erase the need for Taka as Konoha is weakened significantly and Danzo can be targeted separately from the village.

Second Attempt

In the meantime, Sasuke kills Danzo. As explained by Kisame, a greater conflict with the entirety of Konoha is inevitable if you aim at major political leaders.

On his second attempt, he has coincidentally already managed to abandon the entirety of Team Taka, just as planned in chapter 416. But this time, before he can go to Konoha, he instead encounters Team 7. As explained previously, Sasuke soon realizes that he cannot destroy Konoha before killing Naruto. And before that, he needs to get his eyes fixed. This results in Sasuke's withdrawal from the fight.

Third Attempt

On his third try, the one in which he decides to target Naruto first, he instead gets sidetracked by the appearance of Itachi on the battlefield.

"Sidetracked" doesn't mean "giving up" or "displaying disinterest" in a different goal. Otherwise, Sasuke's training under Orochimaru for 3-4 years would be proof of his disinterest in killing Itachi. Sasuke is simply prioritizing urgent matters and acting strategically.

Now, all of this "getting sidetracked" might sound a little convenient. But the question is "convenient for who?"

It is of course possible that Sasuke is openly searching for excuses because he doesn't truly want to eradicate Konoha, making him a harmless villain. The other explanation is that Kishimoto was the one looking for excuses.

In a conversation, @theheirofthesharingan pointed out that Sasuke is being "saved by the narrative" ie. plot armor. Though not in the sense that he is being protected from harm but rather that he is being protected from inflicting harm, probably as an extension of Konoha's own plot armor. This also ensures that Sasuke remains "redeemable" and likable to the audience so that Naruto can fulfill his goal of bringing him back to Konoha.

Conclusion

As I said in the beginning, there is a huge mountain of evidence suggesting that Sasuke not only fantasized but would've acted on his revenge plans against Konoha. This is because

We know Sasuke to be a non-dramatic character who doesn't easily back away from his own words.

Sasuke is on a corruption arc, his morals declining far enough to kill a friend. It seems unlikely that he'd draw the line at a stranger.

From a writing point of view, continuing Sasuke's corruption arc makes more logical sense unless he experiences another trigger event. It also further highlights Sasuke's pain.

Sasuke has repeated his goal multiple times over, leading me to believe that his mood wouldn't change soon enough for Sasuke to second-guess himself.

Sasuke has taken steps towards the fulfillment of his goal. It is entirely possible that, if Konoha didn't have plot armor, Sasuke would've found the right time to destroy the village eventually.

Of course, Sasuke's morals are not entirely gone, as we can see when he refuses to join Kabuto (though potentially just because Kabuto antagonizes Itachi). It is still entirely possible that Sasuke would've gotten cold feet when physically confronted with the task of killing innocent civilians. But this possibility is hardly entertained by any of the characters and Sasuke himself doesn't seem conflicted about his plans. It seems like Kishimoto intended for Sasuke to be genocidal, most evidence pointing toward this reading of his character.

I certainly have my opinions on this matter but, like always, this is a matter of interpretation.

Debating me is fine. I like to discuss my favorite characters. But screenshotting, blocking me, and then attacking me behind my back (and without having ever interacted with me) in a new post is a no-go for obvious reasons.

[obitoslover]

Kishimoto basically wrote Obito saying "if the system is flawed, then I'll destroy it" and proceeded to never touch on this topic again, only focusing on the first part of his speech

It's interesting to think he said that this early, was it meant as foreshadowing to his villain arc?

It's also worthy saying it's never stated in Kakashi Gaiden he desired to be Hokage at all, only in chapter 607, which can be interpreted as Kishimoto not planning it to Obito's character

Of course both concepts work together, as a kid wanting to be Hokage (apparently to get attention, just like Naruto) and eventually learns the system's flaws, but I doubt that was the original intention

Makes me think how Kishimoto made both Naruto (at the end of Land of Waves Arc, chapter 33) challenging the shinobi system after seeing how harsh shinobi life is and chapters later (Kakashi Gaiden ranges from ch. 239 to ch. 244) makes Obito, who parallels the protagonist, also criticizing the shinobi system

But then Kishimoto ends up making criticizing the system as a bad thing, yikes