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serenheist · 3 years

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What Taehyung is like in a relationship/ Taehyung as a boyfriend Tarot reading

How long does it take him to get into a relationship? & Does he prefer long or short term relationships 8 of cups, queen of swords, 10 of pentacles 9 of pentacles reversed, 4 of cups

Ffs the queen of swords always pops up. Anyway yeah I don’t see him getting into anything quickly. He could’ve in the past but I think past relationships left him drained af and feeling alienated. I think he has a shit ton of walls up and is a lot more no nonsense now. It’s probably intimidating and more blunt to others because he wants to get to the heart of why someone is trying to get with him since so many people try to pull the same shit and fuck around with him like he’s dumb. He does not settle for anything other than what he wants. If he can’t find “the one” then he legit just rather be alone. It looks like he’s now more focused on building a Legacy though and something serious and long term so he has no desire to just jump into something with anyone. He basically would wait it out and get to know them long before deciding he trusts them enough and feels comfortable enough to show his emotions and not be so aloof.

I feel like he’d be the type to not show much interest at first because he really needs to scope the person out. So the person probably wouldn’t even know he actually likes them. Actually he could be a little too jaded and bored to the point of turning away everyone even though he does want a relationship. But in his mind there’s too many people being carbon copies and trying to swindle him for his money bruh for real all of bts are having this problem like damn it keeps reoccurring. Idk why it seems like there’s people also trying to use money to get with him like they’re rich and they think he’ll just want someone loaded. Like dude he’s already rich so that doesn’t work and to him them having a ton of money means Jack shit when they have the personality of a damn rock.

Past & present love life 10 of swords, 2 of pentacles present: the hermit, 5 of wands

Past love life: welp. Do I really need to explain the 10 of swords. I think actually that he had all this past trauma and shit from relationships and even other shit he still hasn’t dealt with but there was no time to even process that because he had to get back to work and act like he was fine. I think he’s the type of person that buries himself in his career when he experiences traumatic stuff that he doesn’t want to deal with. And of course it’s easier when you’re busy 24/7 anyway. This relationship betrayed him in every way tbh but maybe it was a catalyst for better things to come though he still might not see this right now. Present: I don’t see him in a relationship now currently cause the hermit but also being a major arcana it’s like he’s really in a life stage right now where he just wants to be alone because there’s so much conflict going on and he’s feeling anxious and having all these negative pessimistic thoughts that he just needs time to himself. I don’t think he very optimistic about his love life right now he’s lost a lot of hope. Things are too chaotic elsewhere to focus on romance.

What is he like in a relationship? the chariot, ace of cup, Unicorn, fae 61, solus 13, vanth, the sun reversed, anger and chains 29, justice, 2 of swords reversed, 3 of cups reversed, avenoir 1, princess of pentacles,ta’om the poet 29, ace of swords, Thanatos

What is he like in a relationship? When he’s in a relationship he really puts all his focus on that person and will go above and beyond for them. There’s a kind of masculine and feminine balance in him in the sense that he’s ready to be the go getter and take charge but there’s also a vulnerable energy and overflowing emotions. He works hard to take care of his person and make the relationship work . The only downside is he could possibly be too smothering to his partner or come on too strongly because of past shit and maybe too clingy for some people since in a relationship he really shows his softer side and he’s not as aloof as he is to others. He loves to have little house parties with his partner and have friends and family over with a ton of food and music.

For date ideas he’s down for anything but especially something “magical” maybe literally some place like Disneyland or pagan festival like beltane? That’s specific af but there’s a medieval type of energy and nature spirits and shit, he wants to do stuff he hasn’t done before and that might even be outside his comfort zone since G. Hobyah card is all about imaginary fears and getting past them. The best qualities he has in a relationship is the ability to help his partner stand on their own 2 feet but also recognizes that you can’t do everything on your own so he’s the type of person who would go above and beyond and connect you to the right people or situations. He’s always there when his partner really needs them and will make sure to put time aside.

His worst quality is that I don’t think he knows how to express his anger in a healthy way. I think with the sun reversed next to anger and chains it’s more like he doesn’t know how to fully show it it’s kinda repressed but his emotions under the exterior are a hot mess and there’s a big need for stability. It’s like being too stubborn to admit when you mess up and petty shit cause it hurts his ego. But I don’t think it’s super bad considering the justice card I used to represent his communication style. I feel that even if he gets mad af he gets over things really quickly and one minute he’s be angry and 10 minutes later he’ll be asking you what you want for dinner like wtf.

When he likes someone he’s not going to jump in and immediately go approach them. I see him instead watching them intently from afar lol he’s very cautious and like gathering everything he can on that person. Dude’s a 1st class stalker. Jk But the thing is the person wont even know he is interested in them because he keeps a serious face as a kind of mask but on the inside he’s like a giddy kid. Ta’om is known for looking serious and thoughtful but is actually very playful and slightly mischievous. I think Taehyung is definitely one to start off as friends and slowly get to know someone rather than just start dating because he really wants to know that person well to see how real they are and if they’re just putting up a front.

He’s not attracted to new shiny things that are perfect he’s able to see the beauty in all things even in difficulty. After he’s been friends with them for awhile and knows if that person like him back, that’s when he’d actually make a move. He finds a lot of satisfaction in doing services for others until they’re completed so it makes me think his love language (giving) is acts of service but with the ace of swords is pretty obvious his Receiving love language is words of affirmation but moreso he appreciates when someone is blunt and honest and not just saying stuff to make him feel better cause then it’s just insincere.

What is his ideal type? the ageless, the star, the singer of healing 10, el shaddai, protection 26, ram, the maestro, fae 41, the sage 19, king of cups reversed, himself 17, danu, death reversed, obsession

His type: this person seems to have had some messed up stuff happen to them in their past. Even when others were horrible to them they still kept their dignity and chose to still give to others instead of give in to bitterness and despair. It’s like the Phoenix where no matter how many times they metaphorically die, they can still rise up even better than before. I think they’re able to help heal others because they’ve been through the trauma themselves but they know how to be honest and blunt without being overly mean about it. They have a kid of tough exterior though I think from years of negativity from people that’s made them strong but also a little distant from people and they need a lot of time to themselves to recharge and get away from peoples bs. Honestly this seems a lot like Taehyung too lol I think he wants someone who’s been through similar traumas.

The ram keeps calling out to me that I think this persons way of showing love is a little aggressive but that’s what Taehyung likes in someone tbh. It’s not like actually showing love it’s hard to explain. It’s more so you know when someone tries to act like sarcastic and shit to hide the fact that they like someone? Idk why it reminds me of toph from avatar the last airbender where she just punches people to show affection it’s kinda like that. Cause they’re not good at being really vulnerable. They put on this brave face and are pretty good at it to the point where you won’t notice that they’re jealous seeing you hang out with someone else. But this person is really independent like I’m not joking lmao and a go getter they don’t rely on anyone really. And don’t give a fuck who you are.

There’s 2 healing cards and honestly why is this person so similar to Taehyung lol this person is great at helping or healing others but again has to realize it’s okay to also get help for yourself. They think maybe that they’re fine on their own and they don’t like relying on others for help because people disappoint you and it’s easier to just do it yourself. But they’re really good at giving advice and are lot nicer than their exterior let’s on. Bruh the star card makes my mind keep playing that I’m gonna be a star song by twice lmao stop. I think this person actually is a star or is working up to it cause they have huge plans. This isn’t someone just wanting a mundane job I think they’re gonna go big.

Especially paired with the ram talking about they go for big dreams and huge successes. This person won’t stop until they accomplish their dreams they really don’t care what others say and will go to the extremes to get there. I see they have a lot of talents anyway but some people were like saying negative shit that their dreams are impossible but they’re learning to set boundaries with other people and it’s more of a just move in silence energy. Also usually I don’t say zodiac signs but since it’s a major arcana it might play some significance but Aquarius might be prominent in their chart (nvm I just remembered Taehyung has venus in Aquarius so duh you dumbass it wouldn’t be that out there to think he’d be drawn to Aquarius qualities).

I wonder if this person is into astrology though given all the glyphs. I think this is someone Taehyung has been trying to manifest and call in too like wishing on a star for a looooong time and maybe thought it wouldn’t come but boy does the universe have a surprise for you. They really are future oriented thinkers and know a lot about spirituality I think that a big part of who they are I really don’t think they’d be completely atheist or not care about spiritual topics. They give a lot without much thought in return and can talk about anything with openness and honesty. With Taehyung they’d teach him everything under the sun. He likes when he can share all this knowledge especially about weirder topics with someone who isn’t going to dismiss him. I see them really encouraging him to try new things and show him things he never knew were possible. They treat him like he finally belongs somewhere in the world.

This shit is kinda spooky because both the maestro guy and illbe the retriever are holding orbs/a little white ball close to them and they speak of the same thing. This person really protects Taehyungs hopes and dreams. Also they themselves obviously represent a dream that Taehyung thought was long gone and impossible. I think it can be taken literally too lol to mean that when Taehyung is being forgetful af. This person is that type of person who has your keys already when you think you lost them. They’re really the more responsible one in the relationship lmao helping him to be more organized and get his life together. The next set of cards I used to represent what his biggest turn ons are. This isn’t in a sexual way though lmao I meant the qualities he likes the most in his ideal type. Already I noticed how all the cards are facing straight ahead and looking right at you so it makes me think this person has some intense ass eye contact and looks intimidating and they got a rbf.

With the king of cups reversed I don’t think they’re actually these heartless cold bitches and that Taehyung is turned on by that because the sage card is upright and talks about the same shit but this is a person definitely who looks colder but is actually kind on the inside. He kinda likes people who look cold like that but are actually sweethearts. This person is not one of those super lovey-dovey people or uses pet names and babytalk like “my sweet baby Taehyung” whatever I think they find it very cringe. They have some trauma from when they were kids where they felt as if they aren’t allowed to act very emotional because people will think they’re weak and take advantage of them (this is just their beliefs about themselves) they instead act very macho or tough again lol like Toph from ATLA idk why I keep thinking of her but there’s like a kinda tomboy energy but they’re really not heartless they just need the right person to feel comfortable around and need to work on opening up emotionally.

There’s so much masculine and yang energy but then at the end you see this motherhood figure so it again really makes me think it’s a front and this person is so nurturing and that’s what really draw Taehyung to them. He loves the most that this person knows so much about the most random things and esoteric topics. They value tradition and stability but they also understand the need for growth and change they’re the perfect balance. Communication is really a big thing for Taehyung it’s a reoccurring theme in this. Someone who is very good at communicating and are action oriented. They say what they mean and mean what they say. It’s very important that they are their own unique individual self and have their own goals and skills and hobbies.

This person is probably a powerful manifester too and sets their intentions and goes after them. They have so much power and confidence also with the himself card they could be a dancer or love dance since he’s a dancer faerie they’re very much into creative shit. They seem very natural and not the type who got work done or wears too much makeup idk there’s like a wild energy lol like this bitch is from the damn forest. If someone attacked Taehyung this person would literally drop kick someone even if the person was bigger than them. Danu card is always protective and nurturing but ferocious if you mess with their person. Like “idc what you do to me but if you touch my guy I’ll end you”.

Now onto what Taehyung’s biggest turn offs in general are: death reversed and obsessed card lol oh god bro I am fucking done. His biggest turn off is when someone makes him the center of their universe. I mean this in the extreme way like “omg you’re my one and only we’re meant to be I think about you 5000 times a day and have an entire closet with all your pictures and I document your entire life” 👀 and he’s like uhh can you get a damn hobby? (That doesn’t involve me) Cause imagine someone’s entire life revolves around you. It’s sweet at first I guess? Lmaoo then it’s just creepy and like they have no life or personality without you. Death reversed is like something is plaguing you and following you around, pestering and annoying you. He must’ve experienced this shit irl lmao if it’s this strong with a major arcana to come up as a turn off. Cause major arcana are big ass life lessons. Like they thought he wouldn’t know they were secretly obsessed with his ass and used other people like his friends to get closer to him but I’m telling you Taehyungs intuition is something else and he always knows when people are some obsessed crazies. This is exactly why he’s so cautious now because of bs like that he can’t trust anyone. Like please stop acting like Jodi Arias and have some self respect.

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lesbianrobin · 3 years

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What do you think are the good and bad aspects of each season of ST?

ok 1. thank u for this question omg and 2. this answer may or may not be a mess, but either way it’s long (almost 7k words lmao) bc i’m insane, which is why it’s under a cut. it’s still by no means an exhaustive list but these are the things that just kinda came to mind.

also i realize you asked “good and bad” and i wrote this whole post as “strengths and weaknesses” which um. is not Exactly what you asked. but close enough <3 i also ended up including a lot of au ideas ksjdckmn bc like i personally hate when people say a certain plot or whatever was bad without suggesting anything that could have improved it yknow so whenever possible i tried to provide Some idea for fixing the issues i had with the show!!

season 1

strengths (this is probably gonna be the longest section but that’s because a lot of these strengths also apply to s2/s3 by default)

nostalgia and authenticity

this one’s pretty simple, but i think that season one did a good job of blending classic eighties media homages (such as the many many e.t./el parallels) with explicit pop culture references (such as mike’s yoda impression, mentions of the x-men, etc) to create a show that’s essentially dripping in early eighties nostalgia without it feeling too forced. before st, i think the most popular depiction of the eighties in mainstream media was that overly exaggerated neon scrunchie aesthetic from the mid to late eighties, and it was usually done in a comedic sense first and foremost. st took a different approach, instead focusing on the early eighties, a time that’s often ignored in favor of going either Full Seventies or Full Eighties, and i think that this choice likely resonated with adults who lived through the eighties and hadn’t yet seen something that felt quite so accurate to their own adolescence. a lot of young people who watched st were totally unfamiliar with this period of time, unfamiliar with books/movies like “stand by me” that st borrows from heavily, and i think st lent more seriousness to the eighties than most young people had experienced so far, and this was refreshing and interesting!

the use of dnd in the show is also quite genius in a way i’m not sure i can articulate?? it isn’t something Everyone would have played at the time, but it’s something that existed within a different context back in the eighties than it does today, and it really lent a sort of authenticity to the naming of the show’s sci-fi elements. like, of course these kids would name parallel dimensions and monsters and superpowers after these similar things in their favorite game! it just feels so real and it grounds st in our reality moreso than you might expect from the typical sci-fi or horror universe.

utilization of existing tropes

almost every single character in st clearly originates from some popular trope. the plot itself is riddled with classic eighties movie tropes. almost every single element of stranger things can be clearly traced back to some iconic eighties film or just to, like, overused horror/sci-fi/mystery/coming-of-age movie tropes in general. this might sound like a bad thing, but it really works in st’s favor! starting off with familiar tropes gives st the ability to easily create a lot of complexity and make a big impact by selectively deviating from those familiar, comfortable tropes!! while el’s whole plot, hopper’s character, etc, are all examples of this in action, i think the steve/nancy/jonathan plot is the greatest example. even from the start, the fact that good girl barb dies while nancy is off having sex with her asshole boyfriend is an incredibly thorough inversion of the most well-known horror movie trope in the book. how often do girls in horror movies have sex for the first time, walk home alone in the dark of night, and live to tell the tale? nancy and jonathan’s dynamic at first glance is a sort of classic “good girl meets boy from the wrong side of the tracks, discovers he’s actually got a heart of gold” thing, but instead of following this well-trodden path, st diverged. nancy is brash, impulsive, and at times downright insensitive. jonathan is angry, bitter, and actually a bit of a creep at first. while they have the capacity to emotionally connect and support one another, they can also bring out each other’s darker side, which is not what we’ve come to expect from that initial tropey dynamic.

in addition, steve, the popular rich asshole boyfriend, is actually... a human being! unlike the cartoonishly evil jocks that we’ve come to expect (especially from eighties movies), steve has complexity. despite his initial immaturity and selfishness, he’s also kind to barb, he backs off when nancy says no, he’s gentle and sweet when they sleep together, his first big Dick Move of the season is in defense of nancy, he realizes the error of his ways after the fight and does what he can to fix it, he’s worried about nancy when he sees that she’s hurt at jonathan’s house, and to top it all off, he ends up saving both nancy and jonathan’s lives when he could have just walked away, and the three of them all work together to fight the demogorgon. like... steve began as the most stereotypical character of all time, and by the end of the season, he had one of the most compelling and unique arcs among the whole cast!

finally, at the very end of the season, instead of dumping steve for jonathan as expected, nancy ends up getting back together with steve, and they’re both on friendly terms with jonathan. i realize that i just kinda. summarized s1. but my POINT is that i don’t think the dynamics between the monster hunting trio would be nearly as fun and interesting had the characters of nancy, steve, and jonathan not been set up to follow certain paths that we already had charted in our own heads. like, within the first couple episodes of s1, it’s pretty obvious that nancy and steve are gonna break up, nancy will get with jonathan, and steve will either die or go full evil or just never be seen again. like, duh! you’ve seen this story a million times! you know that’s how it’s gonna go! so, when the story DOESN’T go that way, the impact of each character’s arc and the relationship dynamics become stronger due to their unexpected complexity and authenticity.

distinct plotlines separated by age group

this one’s rather obvious, but the way that the adults in s1 were essentially in a conspiracy thriller while the teens were in a horror flick and the kids were in a sci fi power-of-friendship story and all three converged at the end... wow. brilliant showstopping etc. not only was it just really well done and unique, it also gave stranger things near-universal appeal. like, there’s genuinely something for pretty much everyone in season one!

casting

obviously this applies to every season sorta by default, but when i think about what made season one So successful, i always think about the cast, and not just winona ryder. yes, she’s absolutely amazing in the show and it’s very doubtful that st would be as big as it is today without her name being attached to it from the start!! however, i think the greatest determining factor in st’s success is the casting of the kids, particularly millie bobby brown. like... el is just absolutely incredible. she’s amazing. this has all been said many times before so i won’t harp on it, but millie and the other kids are all So talented and charismatic and i think their casting has been instrumental to the show’s success.

strong visuals

the way that multicolored christmas lights which have been around for decades are now kinda like. a Stranger Things thing. jesus christ. those lights are probably the biggest stroke of stylistic genius on the show.

atmosphere and setting

this is probably like. the least important one here for me sdjncdsc because i think s2 and s3 both had like Even Better atmospheres and shit but s1 was good too and it laid the groundwork!! i know a lot of people would have preferred st be set somewhere more Spooky with lots of fog or giant forests or whatnot, and while i do enjoy thinking about alternate st settings and how they might alter the vibe, i think hawkins indiana was a good choice. as the duffers have said, placing stranger things in a fictional town allows them more flexibility than if they’d gone with their original plan of using montauk, new york. besides that, i think the plainness and like... flatness... of small-town indiana just Works. like, the fact that hawkins is never really scary on the surface is a big part of the horror in the lab’s actions and their impact. hawkins isn’t somewhere that people just disappear all the time. it isn’t somewhere known for strange occurrences (prior to s1, that is). it isn’t somewhere shrouded in mist and secrecy. hawkins on its surface seems like the sort of place with no secrets and nothing to fear, and that’s the point! the lab is out in the open! it’s right there! everything is so close to the surface, yet so far out of the public eye, and i think that really works.

the byers family’s whole deal (specifically the joyce/jonathan dynamic)

this is going here bc i miss it so bad in s2 and s3. i’m not one of those people who believe The Byers Are The Whole Point of the show, because st is and always has been an ensemble, and el, hopper, and the wheelers are just as instrumental to the plot as the byers, but ANYWAY, i do think the byers were one of the most interesting aspects of s1. joyce’s difficulties with supporting her sons as a poor and (implied mentally ill) single mother, jonathan’s stress as a result of having to earn money, care for his brother, and keep the house in order when his mother is unable to do so, and the resulting tension between them when will’s disappearance and supposed “death” brings the situation to a tipping point? holy shit! it’s so good! that argument after they see will’s “body” is just incredible and gut-wrenching. their relationship feels so real and messy and i think it’s just... good. also winona ryder REALLY acted her heart out and she carried a lot of s1 which i think people often forget to mention so i’m saying it here.

weaknesses

pacing/timing

ok so pacing is probably going to go in each season’s weaknesses, to be honest, because i think they all had a blend of some good and some bad pacing. good pacing is invisible pacing, though, so i probably won’t be putting it in any of the strengths sections and will only be focusing on it in the weaknesses. i’m also probably not going to talk about weird day/night cycle things, just because i don’t want to get nitpicky on timelines because that would require going back and rewatching things to double check timing which i don’t wanna do at the moment lmao. anyway, when i think of bad pacing in season one, i primarily think of two things: nancy’s little trip into the upside down and subsequent sleepover with jonathan, and the sort of staggered nature of the climax in the final episode. the latter is simple so i’ll explain it first: while i understand that each group’s respective climax is like part of a chain reaction and that’s why each big moment happens separately and at different times, i think that st is strongest when the whole group is together, and i think that makes the stakes feel higher too, so i’m not In Love with the way s1 separated everyone and gave each group their own climax.

okay, now on to the nancy/upside down thing! idk if i’ve ever talked about it before, but i think the worst decision made in s1 by far is the inclusion of nancy’s brief trip into the upside down, wherein she dives headfirst into another dimension with absolutely no backup, watches the demogorgon chow down, freaks out and runs around for a minute, and then leaves. like... what the fuck? even putting aside what an idiotic decision this was (because i do think nancy’s tendency to rush into things headfirst is an intentional and consistent character trait), it just kind of destroys any remaining suspense surrounding the demogorgon and the upside down, and it accomplishes basically nothing besides scaring nancy enough to have jonathan sleep over, which is lame. i will break it down.

like, first of all, nancy just getting to waltz in and out of the upside down and get a good, long look at the demogorgon makes the entire thing far less mysterious, and by extension far less scary. like... before this scene, we the audience haven’t got a good look at the demogorgon. we’ve seen its silhouette briefly and we’ve seen a blurry picture of it, but nothing more, and i think that is far more effective at building fear than this jaunt nancy goes on which gives us a full view of the thing and makes it into less of a horrifying nightmare and into more of a humanoid animal. like, maybe this is just me, but i found the demogorgon far less intimidating after that scene than before. it also lets nancy and jonathan know For Sure that they’re right without providing any crucial information that they need to fight the demogorgon (aka it’s unnecessary to the plot), which removes a very compelling story element (the faith nancy and jonathan need to have in order to keep going against a vague and poorly understood enemy, the doubt they might have about each other and their own sanity, the possibility that they might be wrong, the trust they need to have in each other) a bit earlier in the plot than i believe is ideal. at the end of episode 5, nancy goes into the upside down and jonathan doesn’t know where she is and it’s intense!!! you’re thinking like, oh fuck, not only is nancy missing and fighting for her life now too, jonathan might be implicated in her disappearance!! some people already think he’s the one who killed will and people know that he took creepy pictures of barb and nancy before they both disappeared, maybe this is gonna cause some serious problems for him!! maybe nancy will find will in the upside down and she’ll help him survive!! fuck, maybe she’ll actually die!! this is huge!! and then episode 6 starts and they’re immediately like oh nevermind jonathan found the tree and got nancy out and she’s fine. my point with all of this is that nancy entering the upside down could have done A Lot in the grand scheme of the plot, but all it did was just... get jonathan to sleep over so he and nancy could have some awkward romance moments and steve could see them together and pick a fight. which could have honestly happened at Any point while nancy and jonathan were working together to hunt down the demogorgon, without ruining the demogorgon’s and the upside down’s mystique. so yeah <3

weird behavior and dumbass decisions that make no sense (aka the whole camera thing)

gonna go off about the teen plot again sorry but: why was nancy so unbothered and quick to forgive jonathan for taking those pictures? girl what the fuck are you doing? why wasn’t that a bigger deal? why was jonathan’s motivation for doing it so weak and why did they just kind of forget about the whole thing? why did nancy TRACK HIM DOWN AT THE FUNERAL HOME while he was PICKING OUT HIS BABY BROTHER’S CASKET to be like hey can you tell me what’s in this creepshot you took? it’s insane. it’s so insane. i mean i think the funeral home thing is hilarious and i don’t mind it being in the show necessarily but like my point here is that i think a lot of character decisions in s1 just kind of.. happened because they Needed to happen for the plot. like, they wrote this plot that required jonathan to be secretly taking pictures of the party and required him and nancy to work together after seeing something odd in the pictures, but they didn’t like... really consider what that event would mean for their characterization and relationship. the whole thing was sort of just dropped with minimal discussion and i think it did both nancy and jonathan’s characters a disservice and was really mishandled.

lighting and saturation/color grading

i am literally begging horror/sci-fi shows to let me see shit. i GET IT okay i understand that when you’re doing cgi effects it helps to keep the lights down and i’m not mad at any of the lighting in the demogorgon/upside down scenes!! i’m really not i think the demogorgon scenes in s1 all look sick!! but like... dude. the colors. where are they. why does everyone look like a vampire. i know blah blah this was probably an intentional stylistic choice intended to mimic film at the time blah blah but dude a lot of old movies are very colorful!! please just let people have color in their faces so everyone doesn’t look like a sheet of paper!!! also i’m white and not a professional lighting designer so yknow grain of salt but i think lucas was kinda poorly served by the lighting sometimes in s1. not Hugely so, not to the degree that i’ve seen poc be poorly served by lighting in other shows, but there were some times where it felt kinda like the lighting setup was just not designed with darker skin in mind.

horror

i just personally don’t find s1 very scary like... ever. i don’t think they were really Trying to be extremely scary yknow so i’m not counting this as a big deal, but i do think that each season has improved on the horror aspects. i think s1′s horror lies more in the mystery and the unknown than in what’s seen onscreen, and as i’ve said already, i think s1 kind of fumbled that suspense ball.

season 2

strengths

the possession plot

i’ll warn u rn this whole s2 strengths section is probably gonna be really short bc idk like. how much there is to really say i feel like it’s all so self-explanatory skjncmn. anyway yeah the possession plot!! eerie as fuck, and noah OWNED. so did winona tbh and finn and sean etc but like. noah. wow! i think the possession plot helped the show maintain a good amount of tension and suspense throughout the season, and a lot of scenes with possessed!will are flatout disturbing to watch. in a good way. i think the mindflayer and will’s possession were far more genuinely frightening than s1′s demogorgon, and it provided a new layer of depth and intrigue to the antagonist besides just “bad monster want eat people.”

tone and aesthetics

halloween season... literally halloween season. halloween season. that is all.

actually i will elaborate a bit and just say that i think s2 did a good job of having the sort of foreboding vibe that s1 was often going for, but without the annoying darkness and desaturation. so points for that.

also st2 is like one of the best Autumn pieces of media ever like it just. like steve and dustin on those train tracks with the fallen leaves all around them.... god. god the vibes are unparalleled. all of the halloween stuff also really contributes to the nostalgia st runs on yknow it makes you think about childhood and trick-or-treating and you kind of get transported like damn... i remember going to the rich neighborhoods to score the good candy..... idk i just think the whole thing is incredibly effective.

“babysitter” steve

by sending nancy and jonathan off together, the show created a problem: what to do with steve? this problem pushed them to create the unconventional and unexpected duo of steve and dustin, and the world is so much brighter for it. seriously though we all know steve and dustin are great i don’t need to argue that point. all i’ll add is that i think allowing steve to grow in this way, serving as a mentor figure and becoming genuine friends with someone so unexpected, really took the originality of his character to the next level. no longer content just to defy his archetype, in s2 steve begins branching out in ways that never would have been considered in s1, creating an incredibly complex and interesting person from the sort of character that most shows would have simply written out or killed off for convenience’s sake. and it works and steve and dustin are such a joy to watch and i love them. <3

the lucas/max plot

so first of all max mayfield is the most perfect baby girl on god’s green earth and idk what i would do without her but anyway. i think lumax is the best romantic relationship in the show and not just because they’re the only ones with like an age-appropriate approach to the whole thing. it’s also because their relationship accomplishes more than just putting the two of them in a relationship!! lucas and max spending time together motivates billy to do his evil shit, providing more conflict in the narrative, and it also helps establish max as part of the group in a relatively natural way while giving both her and lucas a great subplot. lucas (and dustin) has a crush on the new girl, they start spending some time together, and lucas ends up needing to decide whether he’ll keep the secret of the upside down and lose her, or risk both of their lives by telling her the truth. that’s a pretty big, character-defining decision that he gets to make!! max has to choose whether to trust this boy she barely knows and endanger herself, or to walk away and stay safe, yet another great character-defining choice that also contributes to the sense we get as an audience of max as somebody who’s incredibly lonely and desperate for love and connection. this post is way too long already and i have a ton more to say so i’ll stop now but yeah i think lumax really Works in the show without ever distracting or detracting from the overall plot and narrative in the way that some other ships (coughjancycough) often do.

balance between the normal and abnormal

s2 i think did a pretty solid job of melding daily life with more fantastical sci-fi horror elements. i enjoyed seeing so much of the kids at school in the first few episodes!! you really get a strong sense of where they’re at in life, what their daily lives are like, and you get a sort of gradual shift into madness that makes everything feel more grounded than i think it would if they had just leapt straight into the horror shit, yknow?

the el and hopper dynamic

go back and rewatch s2 and tell me that’s not one of the most moving portrayals of parenthood and trauma and growing up that you’ve ever seen. you can’t. or well you can but i won’t listen. i really can’t imagine stranger things without el and hopper’s relationship, and it’s my absolute favorite part of s2. their whole dynamic is so beautiful and complex, and gives them each amazing personal arcs in addition! the black hole scene is literally one of the show’s greatest moments of all time. any given scene between the two of them in s2 is just guaranteed to be heartwarming as well as heartbreaking, and i think that makes for an incredible show.

weaknesses

flashbacks

okay this applies to Every season they All have too many flashbacks but in s2 specifically... please stop showing me shit from season one. i watched it. i know what happened. you don’t need to spoon feed everything to me!! flashbacks can be a really helpful way of delivering information to an audience, but st has a bad habit of not only being kinda demeaning in how often they flash back to shit that the audience already knows, but they also have a bad habit of using flashbacks almost as a crutch to avoid having to deliver information subtly and naturally.

you know i gotta say it... the lost sister

this is so sad. the lost sister really is like a great concept for an st episode, and i’m not mad about the idea of st taking a break from the normal action to focus on one story for a full episode, but the execution of it was just dreadful. kali and her crew feel very over-the-top and stereotypical, and its placement in the season totally kills the tension and excitement that was built in “the spy.”

i think the lost sister honestly could have gone over far better, even with the stereotypical fake-feeling gang kali has, if they had just swapped it with “the spy” like... ok, the end of episode five has el setting off to find kali and will collapsing on the ground seizing. right? imagine if, instead of immediately following will to the lab, we’d followed el. we don’t know what’s happening with will, but it’s a very simple cliffhanger that leaves us on edge without making us feel cheated by the show cutting away. we follow el on her little journey, everything happens much the same as canon, and then at the end, el sees hopper in scrubs. she sees mike, screaming, sees that they’re both in danger. holy shit!!! what the fuck!!! what’s happened since we left will seizing on the ground??? we feel el’s fear and confusion. she decides to go home. and then... boom. “the lost sister” is over. now, we rewind, right back to will seizing on the ground, and “the spy” commences. we learn how they got into the danger that el saw in the end of “the lost sister,” and we sit on the edge of our seats all through “the spy” and “the mind flayer,” KNOWING that el is on her way back to save them but not knowing when she’ll arrive!! idk i don’t think that would have necessarily saved lost sister but i think it may have alleviated some of the issues that i and many others have with it, timing-wise.

the nancy/jonathan sidequest

once again, the idea of nancy going off on her own little mission to find justice for barb after s1 is like. amazing. genuinely i love that plot for her and i can’t imagine anything better for her to have focused on in s2. unfortunately though i think her and jonathan’s little trip to see murray was just kind of... lame. the whole thing just felt like an excuse to get the two of them alone together, yknow? which is fine i guess people contrive all sorts of situations to get characters alone together for romance reasons but in this case i think it just really doesn’t work for me because of what it’s juxtaposed with. like, will is POSSESSED, and jonathan is just off on a mini road trip and sleeping with his bestie, and jonathan never seems to communicate to joyce/will that he left town, and joyce never like... thinks to tell him that will is like sick and fucked up and they’re looking at him in the lab??? like it’s so weird i know joyce always forgets about jonathan when shit’s happening with will but jfc you’d think at some point in that like... 72-ish-hour period where jonathan was out of town she would have thought about him. like at least once. maybe i’m forgetting something and she mentioned him sometime and i missed it but even still, i hate the juxtaposition of nancy and jonathan just like cheers-ing at murray’s place and sleeping together and whatnot while everyone else is dealing with possession or trying to hunt down dart yknow? it feels really boring in comparison and i think it could have been done far better. like it was SO insanely easy for them to get into the lab and get an admission of guilt and escape with it!! i think it might have been a lot more engaging if maybe someone from the lab tailed them to murray’s place and they had to like lose the tail and race to get the recording out to as many news outlets as possible before they got caught, or something like that. the tension in their plotline is completely resolved in episode four!! episodes five and six are just them screwing around and addressing envelopes. while there were a lot of strong ideas in this plotline (i really enjoy nancy going out of her way to get justice, and the fact that they have to water down the story to make it believable), i just think the focus on nancy and jonathan getting together hindered it a lot without adding a ton to the plot or their individual characters.

season 3

strengths

starcourt mall as a setting

while i don’t think the mall was utilized quite to its full potential (something i could make a separate post about if anyone’s interested), i do think that starcourt was a genius addition to the series. i’ve said this before, but building a new mall is a literal Perfect in-universe justification for a significant leap forward in fashion and aesthetics, and it provides a great location for characters to just... be characters. idk how else to articulate this i just think that the mall is a great setting to let people interact with each other and to bring people together who may not have been otherwise (i.e. scoops troop). not to mention how sick it was to see the mall get wrecked toward the end kdjncdkm like they were able to do so much more with the mall in terms of like The Finale than they could with just the byers house or the cabin or the school or even the lab. i love all the back tunnels they run through it’s such a fun like acknowledgement of how this glitzy eighties mall is just a real place where employees get shipments and take out the trash and shit idk it’s all about the perfect facade and what’s hidden what’s underneath what’s hiding in plain sight etc etc i’m just saying words now. anyway.

willingness to experiment and go against expectations

gay robin. neon aesthetics. giant fucking meat monster. i know some people hate both the neon and the meat monster but i personally think they were kind of amazing and like. yknow regardless of personal tastes i think it’s impossible to deny that s3 had a lot of incredible visuals, and they’re all visuals that just wouldn’t have been possible if the show were too afraid to stray from its s1 aesthetic. robin being canonically gay (and her resulting friendship with steve) and the season’s striking visuals are two things that most everyone (besides like homophobes skjncdknm) can agree were great, right? and they were both departures from where the show began and what we all expected!! so yeah i think while some of the experimentation in s3 wasn’t ideal it was also that experimentation that allowed for some of the season’s strongest elements to come about.

the hospital sequence (and the season’s action/horror scenes in general)

this one is fairly self-explanatory. while they may have underutilized the “body snatching” element of the season, the hospital sequence with nancy and jonathan fighting off their possessed bosses did an amazing job of building tension and creating a genuine sense of really intense and personal danger.

in general i think that s3 melded action and horror rather well, particularly in the sauna test, the hospital, and when the mindflayer busts through the roof of hop’s cabin. horror can come from many things, and in this case, st elicited horror largely from the feeling of helplessness, and it was really effective for me personally. i think it worked better for me than s1′s brand of horror because it doesn’t rely so much on a lack of knowledge or a sense of suspense that inevitable disappears upon a second viewing.

the body horror we got in s3 was also really fun! that’s it i just think all the blood and guts and slime were fun and i would like more of them. once again, the impacts of body horror are less dependent upon the viewer being in the dark or unsure as to what’s happening, and as such i think it tends to be a little more effective at eliciting reaction in the long term.

timing and mechanics of the battle of starcourt/finale

i think the battle of starcourt is just fucking awesome, and beyond that personal opinion, i think it’s the most high-stakes and intense finale of all three seasons, and this is for two main reasons! 1. el is out of commission, and 2. (almost) everyone is in the same cental location. this means that (almost) everyone is in danger all at once, and they are all working together at the same time to fight the same threat. s1/s2 have their groups more fragmented for the finales, and while i understand why in each case and i wouldn’t call either season’s finale necessarily weak, i do think the centralized nature of the s3 finale just Works on another level. in s1 and s2, large segments of the cast are already perfectly safe by the time el dispatches the primary threat. in s3, however, everybody save for dustin and erica is still in danger up until the last moment, and el is seemingly (you can def debate how much power she still had in her when she peeked into billy’s mind and whether the memory broke the mindflayer’s hold on him or if she was actually controlling him to some degree) completely vulnerable. this increases the tension and raises the stakes, making the finale a real crescendo to fortissimo as opposed to a series of little mezzo forte moments. i hope everyone reading this knows music idk how else to phrase that my brain is stupid.

emphasis on friendship and adolescence (but in a different way than s1/2)

this is definitely a controversial one but i think that s3 really did like... show a side of friendship that had been more or less unexplored thus far in the show. el and max were amazing, and i think it’s really nice that we got an opportunity to see the kids have some growing pains as well as see them support each other through Normal Adolescent Stuff like boyfriends and breakups instead of just like. death and trauma. this is maybe just a personal preference, but i think it can be really enlightening and provide a lot of depth when you get to see how characters respond to normal everyday conflict and not just how they respond to giant world-ending conflict!! letting el use her powers for goofy teenage shit like spying on boys and messing with mean girls at the mall is not only fun for her and the audience, but it also really emphasizes just how much those powers are a part of el, making it that much more devastating when she loses them at the end of the season.

weaknesses

tonal dissonance

so this is like. obvious. but it must still be said! i won’t go on and on about it since we all know this so i’ll try to like talk about it from an angle people don’t usually? anyway. it seems to me like they were maybe a little worried about s3 being too dark. while the choice to really lean into humor was definitely driven by the sorts of eighties teen films from which s3 drew inspiration (like fast times at ridgemont high), i think it was also done in an attempt to alleviate the more troubling implications of some events in the season, particularly the russian bunker plot. like, yeah, st can be incredibly dark, but if they’d played the whole “children being stuck inside of a foreign military base, tied up, tortured, and drugged” thing completely straight without the humorous elements that exist in canon, it had the potential to be like... disturbing on a new level. steve and robin don’t have powers like el yknow their kidnapping/torture doesn’t have any sci-fi elements to sorta soften the blow. they’re just innocent teenagers being brutalized and traumatized by grown men. so anyway yeah i think maybe the writers were concerned about this storyline coming off as too dark and they wanted it to be a little more whimsical but they ended up pushing way too hard in that direction and creating extreme dissonance at times. this goes for joyce/hopper/murray/alexei too, but to a lesser extent. i think the ridiculousness in that group felt a lot more like... realistic. but still.

newspaper plot

once again i feel like i don’t even need to say this skjdncmn we all know it was insane how the show basically ended up delivering the message “while misogyny is a serious problem poverty and classism are not” and i’ve said it on this blog a million times so i don’t need to repeat myself. i’ll focus on another weak point of this plot: the fact that it completely separates nancy and jonathan from everyone else. once again, the show’s preoccupation with j/ancy held them back! like... can you imagine a version of s3 where nancy and jonathan both worked in the mall? i have a lot of ideas about this possible au and like how the plot could play out differently if they worked in the mall but first of all it’s just more realistic, second of all it further utilizes the mall as a central setting, and third of all, it would bring everyone together. as it is in canon, nancy and jonathan were unnecessarily isolated from the rest of the group, and this isolation was detrimental to both of their characters. like, they only ever get to interact with each other! if they’d gotten summer jobs in the mall, they could have had more interactions with the kids/steve/robin, and they absolutely still could have had a similar argument! maybe in this case, nancy notices the rat thing (or something else odd) herself when taking out the trash behind the mall, and she wants jonathan to ditch work with her to check it out bc she thinks it may be related to the lab. jonathan doesn’t want to ditch work because he needs his job, nancy argues that they’re working shitty mall jobs anyway and who cares if they get fired, and we get more or less the same thing as s3 without the cartoonishly over-the-top misogyny. i mean honestly i think the rat shit could have been cut entirely it didn’t rly... accomplish much of anything. in my opinion. like imagine s3 without the rat plot you literally would not be missing anything except it would be more surprising when the dudes melted into goo at the hospital. so yeah i think it would have been better if nancy and jonathan had jobs at the mall, weren’t isolated from everybody else, and were maybe absorbed into the party’s plot or the scoops troop’s plot from very early on, allowing them to interact with more characters and have a less... dumb.... plot. like god splitting up nancy and jonathan between the party/scoops troop would have been So Much better i just. sdkjcnksdmn anyway yeah.

briefness of group reunion/separation of groups

remember in s2 at the beginning of “the gate,” where mike and hopper had a confrontation and max and el met for the first time and el hugged everyone and steve and nancy had their sad little moment together outside... where’s that energy? obviously the s2 reunion wasn’t that long either, but it made space for some significant emotional moments to take place. s3′s reunion had some hopper/el/mike resolution, but besides that... there was nothing, really. i just think that the whole group getting together in s3 was SO exciting and powerful the way they did it (with both the scoops troop and the adults having their own Big Moment reconnecting with team griswold family), but the emotional potential was more or less squandered.

i also think in s3 at times they were really stretching to keep everybody separated even though it made no sense. and like... in s1 the separation worked bc nobody else knew that (x group) was experiencing weird shit too, and beyond that, each group (as i mentioned in the s1 section) was sort of operating within their own genre and bringing something unique to the season. they’ve stopped doing that though! now, the groups aren’t separate bc each plot is tonally/structurally different, the groups are just separate bc... they need to be, because it’s a big ensemble cast and you can’t just have them all be together for a whole season or it would be way too difficult to coordinate things and keep the show dynamic. all this is to say that i’m excited for s4 because the location differences make it so there’s a Reason for each plot to be separate at the beginning, and i think that’ll work better.

general ridiculousness

i dont mean like i think it’s bad that they made jokes this is just me lumping in all the dumb shit like hopper not worrying about el and not wanting to check on the kids, him and joyce bickering long after they both know they and their children are in danger, max seemingly forgetting that billy is a racist abuser, etc etc. i think many of these are just a symptom of the show 1. trying desperately to keep the groups split up a certain way even though it may not make any sense, and 2. trying to fit into a certain genre/trope mold when their actual characters are more complex than the tropes they’re imitating. this is so fucking long already i am not gonna elaborate further rn but i trust u all know what i mean.

soooo... yeah, that’s about all! i mean it’s not all there are definitely many more things i could talk about and i know i focused sorta disproportionately on the teens which is my bad :/ but i’m done for now. thank you for asking, and apologies for the delay in responding!! i’m sure some people reading (if anyone read this far) will disagree with some of what i’ve said and that’s alright like i’m not The Authority on st or anything i’m just trying to talk about like my own thoughts yknow? so yeah luv u all i hope someone enjoyed reading this!!

#asks #em talks #lesbianrobin.canon #stranger things #if u actually read all this i love u and im sorry #these r just my opinions!! and im sure i misremembered some shit my brain is swiss cheese #i did my best tho

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straykidsreactions · 4 years

Text

Reaction To: Finding Out Another Member Likes Their Crush

S T R A Y K I D S R E A C T I O N T O : Finding out that another member also likes you, their crush.

Genre: a lil angst + a lil fluff

A/N: If you’re interested, I’m willing to do a much fluffier part 2 to this. Just let me know~

Chan:

On one hand, Chan is a straightforward and competitive guy- he’s incredibly driven and he doesn’t like losing, especially when it comes to matters close to his heart. On the other hand, he’s also incredibly selfless. When he overheard Hyunjin talking to one of the guys about how adorable he found you, showing off a picture the two of you had taken together, Chan couldn’t help the way his heart sank. Of course he liked you, he’d liked you for a while and he thought he’d made it obvious to the other members by the way he always invited you to hang out with him (especially when he was buried in his laptop working until all hours of the night at his studio). But he wasn’t one to admit his feelings our right, so he couldn’t be mad at the younger member for catching feelings.

Chan would ultimately be torn between being up front with you and admitting his feelings (which could ultimately hurt his friend) or staying quiet and potentially losing you. He’d become quieter and more tense when you were around, mostly because he didn’t want to step out of line and do something that could jeopardize either relationship. It’d be especially difficult for him because he also considered you to be one of his closest friends, and the fact that he couldn’t talk to you about the dilemma he was dealing with would weigh on him. It got to a point where you’d noticed his change in behavior, so you’d asked him if you could come by his studio to talk. Truthfully he’d considered telling you no, not because he didn’t want to see you but because he didn’t fully trust himself to not do something selfish. He’d never want to hurt Hyunjin but he feared his feelings for you were too strong and that, if given the opportunity, he might act on them.

When you arrived at his studio, taking a seat beside him as he worked diligently on a few new tracks, it wasn’t hard to tell that something was off. His usual goofy and relaxed demeanor would be gone, and was replaced with a thoughtful and reserved version of the man you’d come to call your best friend.

*clearing your throat as you looked up at him intently, getting up the courage to break the ice*

“Chan, what’s going on...”

*not meeting your gaze as he continued to work on his computer, not bothering to remove an earbud as he replied*

“I’m fine Y/N I’m just busy that’s all.”

*sighing as you fiddled absentmindedly with your fingers*

“Did I do something wrong?”

*frowning as he paused momentarily, turning towards you slightly without quiet meeting your gaze*

“Why would you ask that?”

*sighing in aggravation as you reached out and grabbed his wrist, pulling him towards you slightly and forcing him to meet your eyes*

“Because you won’t even look at me and I don’t know why! You’re acting like we’re not friends anymore or something and- and that really hurts, Chan...”

*sighing as his face softened, pulling his hand away and using it to remove an earbud so he could hear you more clearly*

“I’m not I just- I don’t know what to do. I-”

*shrugging his shoulders and forcing out a small, saddened smile*

“I don’t know. I think I have to accept that sometimes I can’t win, y’know? Sometimes the timing just isn’t right...that’s all I can say, really.”

Minho:

He isn’t one to play games, or beat around the bush. That being said, he also isn’t one to take situations lightly especially when it comes to matters of his heart. He hadn’t confessed to you because, despite being sure of his feelings for quite some time, he was waiting to see if you liked him back. He didn’t want to risk your friendship if you didn’t feel the same way, so he’d been willing to play the long game- that is until he realized Felix also had feelings for you. He hadn’t out-rightly said that he was attracted to you, but Minho was quick to notice the younger’s adoring stare as you played games with him and a few of the other guys one evening at the dorm. In a way he understood it, you were particularly good friends with Felix and truthfully you were better friends with him thatn you were with Minho- but friendship didn’t necessarily mean that you had romantic feelings for him.

After you’d left and Felix was alone in the living room, Minho wouldn’t hesitate to approach him about it- but not in an obvious or aggressive way. He had no intention of forcing Felix’s hand, or trying to come to an agreement on who should pursue you- Minho is all about the long game. It truthfully didn’t bother him that much to learn that Felix was interested in you, because you were free to choose whoever you liked. If you wanted to be with Felix, there was nothing Minho could do to change your mind. he’d be eerily calm about the situation, not because he didn’t want you as his, but because he’d rather play smart than hard.

*approaching the younger member who was sat comfortably on the couch, clearing his throat slightly before he spoke*

“You should tell (her/him).”

*giving the older man a confused stare as he looked up from his phone*

“What?”

*not moving from his position leaning up against the doorway*

“You should tell Y/N you like (her/him). You do, don’t you?”

*his eyes widening and his cheeks growing flushed as his embarrassment became apparent*

“Hyung I, how did you know that?”

*shrugging his shoulders slightly as he pressed his tongue to the inside of his cheek, nodding thoughtfully*

“It isn’t hard to tell...”

*frowning slightly as he thought carefully on the older member’s words*

“Do you think (she/he) likes me back?”

“You can’t know until you ask...just be upfront.”

*in thought for a moment, scratching nervously at the back of his neck as he inhaled sharply*

“I-I don’t know, Hyung...Y/N and I are really good friends, yknow. I don’t know if I wanna mess that up.”

*his usual intimidating demeanor softening slightly as he adjusted his stance against the doorway, running his hand through his hair as he thought for a moment*

“Fine then, tell (her/him) when you’re ready. (She/He) might be gone by then, though. Are you gonna be ok with that, if she’s with someone else?”

His question was weighted, though Felix had no idea to what extent. Minho had no intention of undermining your relationship with the younger member, though he doubted he even could considering your close friendship. Moreso, he wanted to be clear with Felix of his options, without 100% admitting to his own feelings. He didn’t think it was important to be vulnerable and admit that he also had a crush on you- since it was very possible you didn’t feel the same way towards him. As long as Felix was aware that there might be others out there vying for your affection, it wasn’t relevant for him to know that his own band mate was one of those people.

“H-hyung what are you saying?”

*shifting apprehensively as he stared at Felix with a serious expression on his face*

“I’m saying if you want a shot, take it. If you don’t...someone else will.”

Changbin:

He’d be lying if he said it didn’t hurt a bit when he’d overheard Chan inviting you to his studio to hang out with him while he worked. He knew the oldest member well enough to catch on to the fact that he probably had feelings for you- and while it wasn’t ideal, it wouldn’t discourage him. He didn’t mind a little healthy competition and, even though it sucked that it had to be between such a close friend, Changbin isn’t one to easily give up just to avoid confrontation. He didn’t have any intention of asking Chan to step down, ultimately the decision was up to you and that was fine with Changbin. Though he had been a bit more hesitant to admit his feelings before- the sudden sense that he might lose you gave him a new-found confidence that he’d be sure to show off to you.

His strategy was to just be straightforward and honest, if you didn’t feel the same way he couldn’t help that- but he at least wanted to try. When you came over that evening to cook dinner with all the members and enjoy the evening together- he’d be sure to pull you aside, not caring who saw.

“Is everything ok, Binnie? What’d you wanna talk about?”

*nodding reassuringly, his hold on your wrist never letting go as he closed the door behind him*

“I just wanted to see you, Y/N, is that a crime?”

*laughing playfully as you shoved his shoulder lightly, rolling your eyes*

“You saw me when we were out in the kitchen, what’d we have to go into your room for?”

*giving you a confident smile as his gaze traced every inch of your face, the pad of his thumb running across your hand that he was still holding*

“It was too loud out there, here it’s just us.”

*feeling heat rise in your cheeks as you gave him a quizzical look*

“What do you wanna say that can’t be said around the other guys?”

*chuckling slightly as he took a small step closer to you, shrugging his shoulders*

“Hmm, I don’t know. Maybe I just wanted to tell you that...you look really good tonight. Every night, actually...”

*your eyes widening as you became even more flushed than before, unaware of Changbin’s finger that was placed gently on the inside of your wrist- easily feeling the way your pulse quickened at his bold words*

“I-I...what?”

*raising his eyebrow flirtatiously as he continued on with his matter-of-fact tone of voice*

“I just think you deserve to be told when you good, Y/N...I know a lot of guys would probably like to be yours, I’m sure you have options. And I don’t have any expectations from you- you don’t have to say anything. We can go back into the kitchen and pretend none of this ever happened...”

*his eyes darkening as he watched the way you trembled slightly under his gaze, entranced in his words and his gentle but firm voice*

“I just want you know that...just because I’m your friend, doesn’t mean I’m not a man. Maybe it’s time you start seeing me as one.”

Hyunjin:

Despite his confident stage persona, at heart Hyunjin is pretty shy and reserved- especially when it comes to his emotions. He’d had a crush on you for a while, but couldn’t ever bring himself to confess his feelings for you outright. He tried to make it obvious in other ways, one of his favorite things to do would be making playlists for you. He’d put so much thought into each song, insisting that it was just good music that you should check out, but the messages in the lyrics would all be subtly laced with his feelings. Unlike his subtle methods of making his feelings known, however, Jisung was much more direct and upfront. So when Hyunjin overheard Jisung talking to you on the balcony about his feelings for you- Hyunjin’s heart would absolutely sink. Jisung was one of his closest friends, despite how different they could be at times. Hyunjin hadn’t stuck around to listen to your reply or the rest of the conversation, he couldn’t be sure of your feelings but the fact that his band mate also had feelings for you (and was certain enough to act on them) would be enough to convince him that he shouldn’t intervene. Of course he wanted to be with you, and if you did end up accepting Jisung he was pretty sure it’d crush him, but he wouldn’t be willing to jeopardize his friendship with either of you. He’d still spend time with you and force a few smiles to keep you from worrying about him, but after a long night of overthinking and beating himself up for not admitting his feelings to you sooner he’d delete the playlists he’d made for you- which was the tipping point where you realized something was wrong.

You’d approached him after a photo shoot when you’d stopped by to bring the members lunch, and it wouldn’t be hard to tell that he wasn’t his usual comfortable self around you.

*talking softly so as not to be heard by the rest of the guys*

“Hyunjinnie...is everything ok? Y-you’ve been acting different recently...”

*averting his gaze as he shook his head, forcing a small smile*

“I’m not acting differently, Y/N, I’m not sure what you mean.”

*frowning as you inched yourself closer to him, looking at him quizzically as he continued to avoid your gaze*

“Yes you have been...you won’t even look at me now and you deleted the playlists-”

“They were just playlist, Y/N.”

His interjection was harsher than you’d anticipated, and it stung as the words left his lips. He’d never intended on pushing you away, he wanted nothing more than for you to be in his life- but he couldn’t help but imagine what it would be like to watch you fall for one of his closest friends and the thought alone was too much for him. He’d rather keep you at arm’s length, not wanting to intervene or create a confrontation.

“W-what?”

*his eyes darting around the room, focusing on anything except your face as he tried to keep his spirits up*

“They were just songs, it’s not a big deal...”

*and then, despite every ounce of his body warning him against saying something jealous and biting, he continued*

“You have someone else who can make you playlists from now on, right?”

Jisung:

On the outside Jisung comes across as a very bubbly, “heart-on-his-sleeve” kind of guy- but underneath that outward persona is a much softer and more sensitive side of him. He’d liked you for a while but he’d never said anything because, truthfully, he was worried about how it might damage your friendship with all the members. You were all so close and, though there were moments where he’d almost swear you seemed to like him back, he was worried that if he acted on his feelings he’d risk ruining the near perfect dynamic you all had. It wasn’t that he’d never considered it, of course his heart ached a little every time you smiled at one of the other guys or fell asleep on their shoulder- he’d tell himself if only you were his...you could fall asleep in his arms instead. But Jisung isn’t the kind of guy to rush into a relationship, especially not with someone he considers a close friend. He’d over-analyzed and been too in-his-head a thousand times, until one very late night at the studio.

He’d gone into the studio to record some vocals with Jeongin and Seungmin, finding moments of downtime in between his parts to rest and play on his phone. Seungmind had been recording for a while at this point, as as the clock struck well-past midnight Jisung could feel himself growing tired. The younger member beside him was also visibly tired, but as he leaned over towards the older member his eyes caught a glimpse Jisung’s phone- the homescreen of which was a selfie the two of you had taken together on a trip to the beach. It could’ve just been a nice photo between two friends- but of course it was much more than that to Jisung. Maybe if Jeongin had been a little more awake he would’ve picked up on the nervous glance the older member gave him as he pulled his phone away- but instead he said something that took Jisung by even more shock.

*leaning his head on the back of the sofa behind him as he stared up at the ceiling, his voice barely above a shy whisper*

“Hyung...do you think Y/N is seeing anyone?”

*his eyes widening as he turned to face Jeongin, giving him a confused look*

“W-why do you ask?”

*his gaze suddenly shifting to face the floor as he fiddled with his fingers apprehensively*

“I just...I know we’re good friends, but that doesn’t mean (she/he) doesn’t have other friends...maybe even a boyfriend...”

*scoffing as he turned back to his phone, trying to play off the fact that for a moment he thought the youngest member had caught him*

“Yah, why do you care about that kind of thing, hmm?”

*without skipping a beat as he turned to face Jisung with a serious expression plastered across his face*

“Because...I like (her/him).”

The instant those words echoed out across the small room, Jisung’s heart would plummet. He’d liked you for so long and now one of his closest friends- someone he considered to be his brother- had just admitted he felt the same. Despite his usual forth-coming and straightforward attitude, Jisung would stay entirely silent. If Jeongin hadn’t been so sleep-deprived, it would have been easy to read the distraught and pained look on Jisung’s face as he sat frozen in his chair. He sat there in thought for a while, falling silent for so long Jeongin almost mistook him for asleep.

“Hyung?”

*glancing over towards him without facing towards him, worried his face would give away to many of his real emotions*

“Mm?”

“Aren’t you going to say anything?”

Again, there was silence. On one hand, Jisung’s heart was unequivocally yours and it had been for quite sometime, but on the other hand he would never and could never intentionally hurt one of his members. He couldn’t muster ethusiastic or encouraging words, he could barely muster any words at all, but he managed to keep himself from saying anything that he knew deep down he could no longer admit. Jeongin had had the courage to admit his feelings, and he hadn’t. Maybe you deserved someone like Jeongin- someone who wouldn’t overthink every little move...someone willing to be bold even if it felt selfish.

“Oh...does Y/N know?”

*shaking his head as he adjusted his position on the couch, now fully laying down as he prepared to take a nap*

“No...I don’t know if I should tell (her/him). I want to...but I don’t know, maybe that isn’t the right thing to do...what do you think, hyung?”

Before Jisung had the chance to fall into a silent stupor of his own thoughts, he felt his phone vibrate in his hand. He glanced down, only to see your name flash across the screen. If signs from the universe existed, Jisung decided that must have been one. Without a second thought, Jisung said the words that had desperately been building at the base of his throat from the moment Jeongin admitted his feelings for you. It was selfish and Jisung knew it, but in that moment knowing that it was the wrong thing to say wasn’t enough to stop him from saying it.

“Don’t. Don’t tell (her/him).”

Felix:

Unlike some of the other member’s who kept their feelings very much to themselves, Felix would be pretty obvious about his feelings towards you- and it would be especially obvious to the other members. He hadn’t confessed to you outright and in all honesty you hadn’t seemed to be picking up on his subtle flirtatious hints, but the guys were quick to spot it and teased him a bit when you weren’t around. While they often encouraged Felix to be upfront about his feelings he hadn’t built up the nerve to do so. Of course he wanted to be with you, but he didn’t want to make you uncomfortable by mistaking harmless friendship for something more. He wasn’t quite ready to put his heart on the line-- at least so he thought.

One particular evening he’d invited you over to the dorm to cook with him, an activity the two of you often did together as a fun way to de-stress and just have a nice time. Sometimes the other guys would join you and other times it was just the two of you, but on this particular occasion it was just you and Felix-- and Changbin.

Of course Felix never minded when the other guys hung out with the two of you, though recently they’d intentionally been giving the two of you alone time in the kitchen in hopes that Felix might confess. It seemed a little odd that Changbin had parked himself in the living room, working on his computer with his headphones in just as you and Felix entered the front door. The guys usually tried to make themselves scarce if they knew you were coming over as a subtle way of encouraging Felix to open up to you- but tonight Changbin seemed to have missed the memo. Of course the instant you saw him you’d invited him into the kitchen to cook with you and, though he seemed very reluctant, he’d begrudgingly agreed. Felix wouldn’t say anything, truthfully he always had fun with you and Binnie-- though he doubted he’d be able to open up about his true feelings with one of his closest friends around. Felix is a pretty observant person, especially when it comes to people he’s close with, and he can always tell when something’s amiss, so it didn’t take him long to notice that Changbin didn’t seem particularly interested in your late night baking. He would smile and agreeably measure out the flour like you’d asked him too, but it wasn’t hard to tell that the instant you stopped looking at him his expression would shift and the mood drained from his face. After a while in the kitchen, you excused yourself to use the restroom, and as a silence fell over the room Felix was quick to bring it up, worrying that something might be weighing on his friend’s mind.

“Hyung, are you ok? You seem kinda out of it.”

*shaking his head as he adjusted the baseball cap on his head, forcing a weak smile*

“Yeah, yeah I’m good...actually I should head out- I gotta go to the studio and work on some stuff but, uhh...tell Y/N bye for me, ok?”

*giving him a concerned face as he stopped the elder man, grabbing his arm lightly as he started towards the door*

“Hey, hey man I can tell something’s up, ok? For real, tell me-- you’re scaring me now, hyung. Are you in trouble or something?”

*shaking his head as he pulled his arm away from Felix’s grasp*

“I’m fine, I promise...I just shouldn’t be here right now.”

“Wh-what, why? I thought we were having a fun time? Look if you think it’s because I was gonna talk to Y/N tonight about, y’know, how I felt or something, it’s ok! I’d rather we all have a nice time together, I can talk to (her/him) some other time.”

*inhaling sharply as he pulled off his cap to run his hands through his hair apprehensively, shaking his head as his gaze met Felix’s momentarily*

“It’s not that I just...I don’t think it’s good for me to be here, I’m just gonna head to the studio ok?”

*growing concern evident in his voice as he stopped the older man once again, worried that maybe he’d offended him or said something wrong in some way*

“Hyung seriously just tell me what’s going on?”

*snapping as he turned towards the younger member quickly, his voice sharp but still soft enough to not be heard outside the small kitchen*

“I like (her/him), ok! Is that what you wanted to hear, man? I can’t be here right now because I know how you feel about Y/N and it’s fucked up for me to even feel the way I do-- but I can’t help it and if I stay here I’m gonna do something I’ll regret, ok?!”

Felix’s face immediately fell, his eyes growing slightly wider as his once playful and teasing smile faded from his expression, leaving him looking perplexed and hurt. Changbin was one of his best friends and he’d just admitted to having feelings for you-- despite knowing that Felix had every intention of asking you to be his. He’d feel confused, hurt, and honestly a little bit betrayed-- but more than anything he’d be conflicted.

“W-why did you tell me that, hyung...I- what am I supposed to do with that?”

His voice was soft, barely above a whisper as Changbin stared at the floor, clearly feeling ashamed for letting his feelings slip so carelessly.

“I shouldn’t have said anything, Lix...I’m sorry.”

“Are you gonna love (her/him)?” The question echoed throughout the hollow room that suddenly felt ten times colder and Felix’s tone deepened as his frustrations started to slip through the cracks.

“Are you going to take responsibility for your feelings? Are you gonna show up for (her/him) no matter what-- do you really think you’re what’s best for Y/N, I mean, be honest with me!” He wasn’t yelling, his voice wasn’t carrying nearly enough impact to be heard by others outside the conversation, but he might as well have been. The bite in his tone was harsher than he’d anticipated, and by the slightly shocked look on Changbin’s face it was obvious he hadn’t expected the level of hurt Felix was clearly feeling.

“Felix, look bro I-I wasn’t planning for this to happen, ok, I never wanted to be in this situation...”

“But we are in this situation, now, Bin...whether we like it or not.” His voice was softer now, more dejected as he stared at his closest friend, void of expression. Felix was never to fight unnecessarily, especially not with his members who he considered to be like his brothers. That being said, he had no problem being upfront about what was upsetting him if he felt it was necessary-- not holding back as he addressed the difficult situation head on. Despite his stern words, the hurt would be evident on his face as he tried to figure out what he was supposed to do in this situation-- something he never expected to be faced with. Changbin was silent for a moment, listening to the faucet turn on from the other room as the two men realized you’d be back momentarily.

“I’m not gonna act on it...if that’s what you’re asking.”

*quiet for a moment as he heard your footsteps echoing against the hardwood floors, turning toward his friend with a serious expression*

“Should we pretend this never happened, then? Because we can...I’m giving you a chance to take it back, and I’ll forget you ever said what you said.”

The two paused for a moment as you rounded the corner, tapping absentmindedly on your phone without realizing the severity of the conversation happening in just the other room.

“Tell Y/N or don’t, hyung-- I can’t tell you to do...but I’m not giving up. I don’t wanna fight you for (her/him)...but I will if I have to.”

Seungmin:

There aren’t going to be a lot of words exchanged when it comes to Seungmin finding out that Minho had a crush on you. In all honesty, there weren’t a lot of words exchanged between the two of you even before Seungmin found out about Minho’s feelings-- something about you made him ridiculously shy and though he did his best to talk with you and hold conversations he always found himself blushing and stumbling over his words. Minho isn’t one to admit his feelings outright, especially not to the other guys, but Seungmin is incredibly intuitive and it didn’t take long for him to realize the older member saw you as much more than a friend. Part of it filled him with anger and frustration, but more than anyone else Seungmin would feel those things towards himself. He’d be hard on himself for not having the courage to talk to you more, watching with an ache in his chest and Minho effortlessly had conversations with you, made you laugh, and even taught you a few dance moves after practice. It was like it was effortless between the two of you, and though a part of Seungmin knew you’d have been just as friendly towards him had he extended he couldn’t work up the nerve to say something.

It may have taken him a while to be honest with you about his feelings, but this push was exactly what he needed. He wouldn’t expect anything from you- he fully anticipated that you’d reject him, after all, he didn’t talk with you much and was more often than not caught admiring you quietly. But one late night on set for their latest photo shoot, you’d stopped by to support them and bring them food- and he’d take that moment as an opportunity to finally open up to you. He knew there was a possibility that what he was doing was really idiotic, after all, Minho might confess to you and if the two of you started dating it’d be more than a little awkward around the younger member. But even though Seungmin realized all of that, he had feelings weighing on his heart that he couldn’t keep bundled up any longer.

When you arrived at the studio where they were shooting with bags of take out from the boy’s favorite restaurant in hand, Minho was quick to help you unload everything. Seungmin watched for a moment, wondering if he’d once again lost his opportunity. But as you started walking around the set and bringing each of the member’s their food, he felt his heart skip a beat and he knew he’d have another opportunity to say something, despite the fact that his hands were shaking.

*walking up to him and smiling shyly as you handed him his take out order, looking around awkward as he appeared to have a cold expression on his face*

‘Uhm..I hope they got everything right on your order...if they didn’t you can tell me and I’ll go back and have them fix it.”

*letting a genuine smile seep through his nervous exterior as he thanked you, taking the bag from your hands*

“I-I’m sure it’s fine...thank you.”

*nodding softly as you went to walk away, feeling a lull in the conversation to be his way of asking you to leave”

Just as you took a step away from him to leave, he’d reach out and grab your wrist, his eyes just as wide as yours at his own bold action. You turned towards him, glancing between his face and his hand that was wrapped snugly around your wrist as he gently pulled you back to him.

“I-I was hoping I could say something to you, Y/N...if that’s ok.”

*giving him a slightly confused but understanding expression as you nodded*

“Uhh..sure, Seungmin...is everything ok?”

*nodding as he let go of your wrist, holding his hands close to him to hopefully hide the fact that they were still shaking slightly from the nerves*

“I...I know I don’t talk to you enough. I know you probably think I’m cold towards you, or that I don’t like you- but it isn’t true. Any of it...I-I do want to talk to you. I want to be your friend but...”

*looking away as he glanced over towards Minho on the other side of the studio and feeling his nerves spike*

“I don’t expect you to take responsibility for this, Y/N...and I don’t want to make you feel uncomfortable...but I w-want to be more than your friend.”

*taking a deep breath and running a hand through his hair apprehensively as he studied your face for any signs of emotion at all, but you still looked to be mostly in shock*

“I-I’m sorry I...I don’t want you to think you owe me anything, you really don’t. If you want to date someone else, I understand. I just wanted to tell you, if I’m quiet or act cold towards you...I hope you’ll understand why.”

Jeongin:

Jeongin is the kind of person who’s quick to show his emotions when he’s happy and sharing in other’s excitemen, but when it comes to his own hardships and sadness he quickly becomes closed off. Despite being the youngest in the group, Jeongin's mentality is oriented towards not burdening others with his problems-- and he especially doesn’t want to feel as though his members take pity on him. Maybe that’s why he’d never admitted to the others that he had a crush on you-- because a part of him could tell from the beginning that he wasn’t the only one to have those feelings.

Though Jeongin can be playfully confrontational and doesn’t mind calling his friends out over small things, when it comes to actual conflict Jeongin is more soft-hearted and isn’t one to address things immediately. So when he noticed Seungmin’s cheeks tinge red every time you sat beside him, or every time you paid him a compliment, Jeongin wouldn’t have the nerve to bring it up right away. He knew Seungmin was equally soft-hearted and the two as a pair wouldn’t have much need for direct confrontation, but his lack of confrontation shouldn’t be mistaken for giving in-- because there’s no way in hell Jeongin would give up on you just because his friend liked you too.

When he’d invited you over to the JYP office where he was working on some lyrics late in the evening, his intentions had been completely harmless. The two of you often worked together on things like that, he’d tease you by saying that you were his good luck charm but you had no idea how true that really was. He always wrote more freely and from the heart when you were around, something about your presence always seemed to coax out the romantic side of him-- which proved very beneficial when it came to writing love songs.

*checking your phone as Jeongin worked silently beside you, finding a peaceful quietude between the two of you until you came across a text message that made you laugh*

“Oh my god, Innie look what Seungmin just sent me-”

*holding the phone up for Jeongin to see, his face morphing into a tense frown as he looked over at your phone and the funny video that was playing*

“Y/N I’m busy...just send things like that to me and I’ll watch them later, ok?”

*frowning slightly as you nodded, apologizing for interrupting his work flow*

“...only send them if they’re actually funny though.”

He knew he he shouldn’t have muttered the last part under his breath, you wer close enough to hear him and when he glanced over at your confused expression he knew he was on the verge of saying something he might regret.

“What do you mean? You didn’t think it was funny?” You laughed softly as you pulled the video clip back up, giggling as you rewatched it.

“I dunno, I thought it was funny...Seungminnie always sends the funniest things.”

Maybe he would’ve let it slide if you hadn’t said that, if you hadn’t giggled the way you did, if you hadn’t called Seungmin by his pet name-- but you had. He could feel tension boiling in the pit of his stomach, a mix of jealousy and angst at the fact that he couldn’t admit on the spot that your giggle made his heart skip a beat.

“Well if you think he’s that funny maybe you should help him write lyrics late at night instead...”

“Jeongin what does that have to do with-”

“Forget it...forget I said anything...” He interjected, fully aware of how disjointed his logic had become as he tried to maintain the frustration building in the pit of his stomach. You slid your chair slightly closer to him, your expression softening as you realized something was bothering him beyond the silly video.

*pulling on his sleeve gently and looking at him with worried eyes*

“Innie...what’s going on?”

*inhaling sharply at your sudden touch, continuing to stare at his screen for fear of crumbling completely if he were to meet your gaze and muttering quietly under his breath, unsure of whether you could hear him or not*

“Sometimes I wonder what it’d be like if you were just mine, y’know...”

825 notes · View notes

omegawolverine · 4 years

Note

Plesse tell me about queerness in the get down!!

okay okay queerness in the get down let's fuckn goooo

disclaimer: I havent watched this show in full for like 5 months at least, probably gonna get something wrong and/or forget some more important bits. also this wasnt proof read I just word vomited

tws: period typical homophobia, abuse mention, f slur use, bury your gays trope, overdose mention, mention of a creepy possible age gap (the age gap hasnt been confirmed so that's why its possible), cops

going from least to most prominent queer characters, let's start with mylene cruz!

so, from the beginning of this show she has an established romantic relationship with ezekiel (although the status of their actual relationship changes frequently throughout the show) and though this was a relationship she was hesitant to pursue, it is clear that she does have romantic feelings for him and if not for them both having growing careers in very different music genres (zeke specifically working in a genre that she repeatedly labels as bad because she thinks they're ruining records + that it isnt real music because they're using someone elses piece and rapping over it, that's not really important here tho lol) they probably wouldve had a much healthier, smooth sailing romance. that being said theres a few things that happen in the show that, while not explicitly clear, or even really good coding at that—to the point where you wont catch if you really arent looking for it (and trust me, I always look for coding, hers was just so little that it flew over my head until I saw someone else mention it)—are still cool to think about!

so, for starters, I wanna mention the toy box performance, which was performed by mylene and regina, who are best friends. that's all cool and shit, and you dont really think much about it...until you hear about the fact that the show runners purposely colored a lot of the scenes in that performance with the bi colors. like. the writers after the show ended basically said "oh yeah there was plans to make her coding more explicit, but our shit got cancelled soooo" and then dropped the fact that she was gonna be bi (or at least implies bi) in the series, which puts a new twist on a few things.

now, besides the bi coloring in the background of the toy box performance (which was mostly on scenes with her and regina, which involved a lot of uh,, lowkey lewd dancing. with each other. in very revealing outfits. wooooo), there's her music! I dont tend to read too much into this one bc, like I said before, her coding is fucking light and the writers themselves said they didnt really get to do much with it, but I think some stuff with her music is interesting. specifically how her, yolanda and regina's song set me free blew up because dizzee, resident (lowkey enby coded) bicon, got their song played in a queer club. also that the song was majorly important to dizzee and started playing literally right as he kissed a boy for the first time and realized "oh shit I like boys that's bonkers". also that the song can be taken in a gay way since literally the entire thing is about becoming your true self, fully and unapologetically, which is what both dizzee and mylene's entire character arcs are about. dizzee (and a lot of other queer people, apparently), heard this song about being set free and it resonated with them so much that they got that shit most of its popularity.

speaking of dizzee and mylene, they parallel each other a lot in the way that their arcs are about them realizing who they are, coming into themselves and no longer just letting people treat them like shit in a sense (dizzee starting to tell people essentially that they can call him weird all they want, they can make fun of how he acts, what he likes, how he dresses, etc. but he likes how he is and quite literally saying "it's okay to be an alien" as he has consistently compared himself to one throughout the show vs mylene learning that if she wants to be a disco singer she needs to put her foot down, not let anyone, not even the love of her life, not even her abusive father, stop her from achieving her dreams, etc. and continuing to pursue her career with or without their support). one more little parallel that I think is interesting is during I think s2 towards the end of the show is when dizzee and thor are shown together having fun with each other, painting all over the building and each other and are basically just being happy and in love together and then they have these clips of them being interspersed with clips of mylene at a party where she is starting to realize that if she wants to get anywhere she needs to be her own main priority and that she needs to put her career and her dream, which is what makes her the happiest, above all else if she wants to succeed. idk I just think how the show made these two into a weird parallel, accidental or not, is neat. maybe not an explicitly queer parallel, but I think at least how her music and whatnot helped dizzee, the main queer character in this show, blossom, is important.

moving on we got shaolin fantastic also known as "oh no your internalized homophobia is showing-"

so, heres a quick list of...interesting shao facts:

Consistently referred to as fag/faggot (shaolin fanfaggot is my personal favorite); he gets really defensive about this despite nobody actually thinking he's queer, it's just people being assholes to be assholes, and he is the only character consistently referred to using a slur, especially a homophobic one, especially for a "straight" character. dizzee, a canonically queer character, is called a fag less than shaolin is even though dizzee actively goes to gay clubs, has a not so secret dude he "hangs out with" and wont let anyone properly meet, paints his nails, wears less than straight clothes even by the 70s standards and is just all around the definition of fucking queer (and I mean like in the weird way, not the gay way). in fact theres only like once I can remember him being called a fag and it had nothing to do with him actually being gay it was literally just like thrown out there the same way you would call someone a bitch.

Has only shown sexual interest in women, yet refuses to have deeper relationships with women in general (possibly because of trauma but who knows) but takes his relationships with his "brothers", specifically zeke, very seriously

Tells zeke and zeke ONLY his real name when zeke was planning to stop being his friend bc shao more or less got boo boo, a like 14 year old black kid, arrested for selling hard drugs; he was clearly scared and trying to do anything to keep zeke around, literally chasing him down the street and hounding him until he got zeke to stop and argue with him

Kept threatening to beat up zeke in the end but couldn't actually bring himself to do so, instead saying that zeke is "fucking lucky" before walking away

Let's zeke get away with things that nobody else can, in general just has a weird soft spot for ezekiel that he shows with nobody else

when shao found dizzee with thor in a vaguely compromising situation (like they were just shirtless covered in paint sleeping next to each other but shao had also seen everything they painted on the walls ((which some of it was sus)), it was clear they had painted on each others bodies and dizzee had been routinely disappearing with this guy for weeks now yet not producing nearly as much art, at least, as far as we audience members know) he didnt judge him but instead, waited for him to get cleaned up and then told him something along the lines of "theres a reason why im so secretive blah blah blah [not everyone needs to know everything about me]", which, in context, kinda implies that he might be a lil. a lil homiesexual. jus a lil.

whenever even the possibility of zeke leaving him comes up he absolutely loses it. he has literally cost ezekiel life changing opportunities because he thought zeke would just up and leave him for them. this could be abandonment issues bc he's a severely traumatized character, and that probably does contribute to it, but it also is just not a reaction he has to any of their other friends just randomly dipping in and out of his life soooooo

generally speaking, this mfer has got either bisexual with a big hard on for zeke coding or homosexual with terrible internalized homophobia and still a hard on for zeke coding. either fucking way, that nigga gay. he gay as hell. gay as fuck man. there wasn't really much to analyze here tbh bc the coding is just so fucking obvious if you look for it or you are/have been a gay person who's dealt with at least a little bit of internalized homophobia.

also, just a sidenote, idk how fucking old shao, but I'm praying hes like at max 19 bc I'm pretty sure zeke is a minor in this show and shao definetly is not so the whole him being heavily implied to have a crush on ezekiel thing is kinda. oof. not oof if zeke is like 17 but any younger than that? OOF.

edit: apparently the characters are only supposed to be a year apart in age but i had no clue about that before writing this post and since shaos age was never actually stated in the show i naturally assumed he was an adult since his actor Looks Like An Adult. this is definetly on me to a certain extent, but i also never saw anything about this when trying to find our their ages so 🤷‍♀️ maybe i just didnt look deep enough, sorry!

now moving on to the main event...marcus dizzee kipling :]

so, first things first, let's talk enby coding bc him being bisexual was already confirmed!

um, to start off, I just wanna say I dont think this enby coding was intentional or even really coding, it's just moreso me being a dizzee kin on main and knowing as a transmasc enby he has very transmasc enby vibes. for example:

cool, gender neutral nickname that everyone calls him

paints nails various different colors

the whole wardrobe is just a transmasc enby heaven...fishnet shirts, jean overalls, jackets and cuffed pants galore, the big colorful pins, etc

gender neutral hairstyle (when I had my fro it was very sexy and made it easy to transition between hyper masc and vaguely fem, which is pog)

comparing himself to/representing himself consistently with an alien character (though this is meant to represent his sexuality, it could also double as a gender thing too, not neccesarily bc of the whole nonbinary alien trope but bc an enby who likes aliens might heavily identify or compare themselves to whatever their idea of an alien is, whether that just be a genderless entity or a motherfucker with fly style and no need to be perceived as anything other Wacky As Hell)

moving on from there, let's talk about how his queerness is presented to us and how, while it may be a really good piece of representation, especially coming from netflix, it still lacks in A Lot of places.

so, let's start with good things!

i personally really like the get down's queer rep with dizzee bc it's (for the most part) nonsexualized and very very soft, about dizzee figuring himself out and realizing there is a place where he fits in, and about two teenagers in the 70s falling in love over their shared passion for street art. it also features an interracial couple where both boys challenge stereotypes both about queer men and men of color, which is epic poggers and very sexy. this piece of rep specifically is very important to me bc I am a queer black person and even tho interracial relationships are mostly normalized now, I've still had people give me shit for primarily dating white people in a town that is...primarily white lol

mm anyways, I can also appreciate how in the get down, dizzee being represented by rumi the alien is not a thing specifically related to gender (as it often is) and instead is about his sexuality and just in general weirdness and how it has led to him being alienated amongst his peers, poc or otherwise. him seeing himself as an alien is not about just his queerness, which is important, it is about him being a queer black man who talks different, acts different, dresses different and is "soft"—he isnt a walking black male stereotype and he wouldnt have been seen as masculine back in the 70s by any stretch of the imagination. this can be relatable to a wide spectrum of queer poc, from queer black men currently who still have to deal with this shit or to people like myself who are afab neurodivergent mixed race enbies that have always been signaled out as weird and alienated for it. dizzee is god rep bc while he has a small part in this show, his parts are very impactful, hard hitting and show queer poc of all ages that they arent alone and that it's okay to "weird", you just need to embrace it because somebody will love you for you, as thor did for dizzee.

that being said theres um. some minor problemas here,,,

namely:

dizzee and thors first kiss

the lack of development this pairing got

the way dizzee was confirmed bisexual off screen, he never said the words himself, just showed interest in both genders

the way dizzee and thor were never even confirmed boyfriends or just fwb so most of the fandom just calls them boyfriends bc Why Not

dizzee was implied fucking DEAD??? AT THE END OF THE SERIES?????? AND THOR WAS IMPLIED ARRESTED?????????????

now, these might have been things that wouldve been fine had the show been given it's full run but it wasnt which is why we are now left with probelms.

so, from the top, let's go over these: dizzee and thor's first (and only "on screen") kiss was one that was shown in a montage of other queer people making over and doing other vaguely romantic/sexual things, one of those things being a whole ass naked titty being mouthed at, but the actual kiss...was just not shown? like they really did just say "yes they kissed <3 you know this from the context clues of it being in a montage with kissing, hickey giving and titty sucking <3 but no we will not show it <3" LIKE HELLO? I SAW A NAKED BOOBIE BUT NOT TWO MEN KISS??? HUH????????

also, dizzee and thor were both fucking high as hell during this bit like this isnt a terrible thing but it's also like sometimes you do shit when you're high that you wouldnt do sober and they just never kissed again on screen so like?? like idk that's not that bad but it does kinda irk me since they deadass got no other on screen intimacy after that unless you including painting on eacher other or sleeping next to each other on a shitty mattress but not touching at all during it bc they were both at opposite ends of the mattress like half way off it

so yeah, that was trash. then we got lack of development, which kinda goes with the "dizzee being a bisexual but he never says it in canon" thing cause like...okay dizzee was already sort of a side character from the get go like he wasnt the mc by any means, but he became way more of a background character as things continued until we basically only saw him for performances or when he was with thor, yet they got no fucking development as a pairing other than "dizzee realize he gay, he like thor, he and thor spend time together and ig probably do some gay stuff but we dont really know bc we only ever see them do graffiti together now" like?? tf am I supposed to do with that shit. answer. quickly. and then theres dizzee not being confirmed bisexual, which is just a running problem with shows literally doing everything to say a character is bi except for having the character just...say they're bi? which would be so easy? like a good way dizzee and thor couldve had some development is by thor teaching dizzee things about the queer community that he didnt even know existed, thor couldve helped him understand what being bi meant and helped him label himself and whatnot but instead we got an off screen confirmation that the writers had bisexual in mind when writing him. which is garbagé.

the whole thor and dizzee never having a confirmed relationship status is also a development problem cause like literally nobody knows if they were just friends who made out, maybe fucked, who knows, or if they were dating bc dizzee does give a love confession but a love confession doesn't mean there is a relationship, especially since thor didn't say he was in love either (as far as I remember, I could be wrong, plus whether or not that really happened or was apart of dizzee literally overdosing during a performance is unclear so 🤪)

and now for the biggest issue...bury your gays trope.

during the season 2 finale, dizzee and thor are chased by cops after they are found doing graffiti, one of the cops is able to catch thor while the other chases dizzee into a train tunnel and there is a train seen headed straight for him before the show cuts to black on a train horn. the show writers claim that if they had gotten another season, dizzee wouldve been alive but since they didnt and since that's essentially super fan trivia knowledge, most people dont fucking know that and instead had to watch a black queer teenager chose death over being fucking arrested by a white cop. on top of that, thor didnt see any of that shit because he was caught and the cop started hauling him off while dizzee was still being chased so thor literally has no clue where his friend/possible boyfriend fucking is or that he's likely dead in a goddamn tunnel all alone, unless you count the fucking pig that chased him in there who wouldve died too. this shows rep was so fucking good as far as most shows go on not having major fucking problems, on not being toxic and over sexualized, etc, etc. and then they just. killed a black queer teenager for no fucking reason. like it was literally the last episode ever, it would add nothing to the plot, it would just devastate fans and devastate it fucking did. I dont cry easy but seeing a character I identified with, who I had hyperfixated on, die because he'd rather that than be arrested is terrible. it fucking sucked.

so yeah. that's my all too extensive thoughts/analysis on the get down's queerness. theres definitely stuff I missed, or misinterpreted, or looked too much into, etc, etc., but this was a fun thing to spend time writing sooo yeah!! thanks for the ask anon, sorry this was just a big rambley info dump, but hopefully you get some enjoyment out of it since it took like 3 hours at least 😭😭 feel free to ask clarifying questions lol

#shit self #asks #the get down #mylene cruz #shaolin fantastic #dizzee kipling #long post #analysis #info dump #idk if anon has seen tgd or is just being nice so i tried givinh background to things #kinz #bangerz #discourse

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patchun · 3 years

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WBaWC Deep Dive: Part 1/2

Lots of philosophical ideas are presented and explored in this game. In this post I aim to point them out. ZUN stated this in his SCooW interview:

"There isn't any sort of obvious theme to the story this time. It's mainly just an introduction of "there's a world like this out there". There's a variety of things going into that world, particularly satire, but if you ask what the work wants to show you, there isn't much in particular. "Here's this world called the Animal Realm, and here's these various elements spread throughout it."

And after doing a ton of digging... yeah, I think he's right. I was kind of hoping there would be something unintentional, but because the perspectives of the human and beast spirits aren't really shown, and only the spirits of their rulers, taking an actual message away from this game is very difficult. That said, I feel with this game more than any other, it's very easy to identify why certain decisions were made. Why is the first boss a stillborn child? Isn't that pretty random? No, let's look into it.

The story this time is quite complicated, so you may not be able to see the whole picture if you just play as one character. To be fair, you may not be able to do so even if you clear them all. (lol)

This will obviously be based on my own interpretation. Long post ahead.

Eika Ebisu. The soul of a stillborn child, and a master of stacking stones. Importantly:

She and the rest of the stillborn child spirits at Sai no Kawara stack stones as work every day. They stack stones as work, in Shinto mythology this is as repentance - because they brought sorrow to their parents by dying too early. Kind of morbidly amusing, I guess, but ZUN makes it a point to say this:

She's also a god of fortune who's able to change simple, pointless work into something that's enjoyable and worth doing, and who can make the best out of any bad situation.

Her ever-cheery demeanor, bright intellect, and penchant for constantly holding exciting new events like stone-stacking contests makes her the Sai no Kawara's resident idol, beloved by all the children's spirits there.

With the spirits of stillborns, yes. I feel like it's more hopeful to portray them as having fun in the afterlife, you know?

Being a god of fortune, Eika is able to make stone stacking FUN. The simple labor of stacking stones for these kids is no longer labor for repentance, but a game, thanks to her (NOTE: labor.) For that reason she is the resident "idol". She is probably the most healthy idol in the game, according to the ideology ZUN seems to be presenting, but we'll get into that later. There's more to this character.

In philosophical discussions of animal rights, when we ask "what is it that makes humans worthy of moral rights", we try to find a criteria. Something that humans have that nothing else does. That criteria then needs to be defended as being a good reason for humans to have moral rights. Used to, sentience was the argument made for human uniqueness. Humans are sentient and conscious, while animals are, in Descartes' scummy terms (sorry, I hate Descartes) "mere automata". We worked on this assumption from that idiot for years, but recently it has been scientifically proven that animals, at LEAST mammals, birds, crustaceans, cephalopods, and reptiles, are sentient, and it is summarized in a document called the Cambridge Declaration of Consciousness.

So this proves a problem for those who believe animals aren't worthy of moral rights. So then, what else do humans have that animals don't? Why are we special in deserving moral rights? Well, that would be our intelligence, right! Even the smartest animals are only about as smart as a five year old (this is not actually true but let's just pretend it is, they're smarter). But then, if intelligence is the criteria for moral rights, then what exactly is the system here? Does that mean that children are less worthy of moral rights than adults because they aren't as intelligent? Does this mean that people who mentally disabled and not viewed as "intelligent" by parts of the populace should be less deserving of moral treatment?

This has been a veryyy simplified summary of the discussion, but here's where it gets even more interesting. You see, here, two controversial ethical topics meet - abortion and animal rights. Because if you want to argue that sentience OR intelligence are the criteria for moral rights, then in either case, early fetuses absolutely do not have moral rights! This is a problem for anti-abortion arguers, which is a funny intersection in my opinion. I bring this up because, of course, while Eika is not an aborted fetus as far as I know, she is still a fetus. She is quite out of place in a game where the rest of the opponents up to Keiki are animal spirits, right? But no, the fetus and children in general actually have a very philosophically interesting place in animal rights discussions, because oftentimes to argue that animals are not deserving of moral rights you also have to take away the moral rights of children. In case this whole thing has left you confused, the side I took was that sentience IS the criteria for moral rights, meaning both animals and children have moral rights, while fetuses don't.

Now, what does Eika tell us about this? Well, nothing. Just that ZUN seems to have thought about it, really. But there are two keywords that apply broadly to WBaWC as a whole when talking about Eika:

Labor

Moral value

So let's continue.

Urumi Ushizaki. Seeing a farm animal after a stillborn child really set off some alarms. Her name translates to "moist beauty". Not sure I needed to know that, but I came across it in my research so now you do too.

She carries a stone carving of a baby. Once she gives the baby to someone to hold, she makes it heavier and submerges them in the river. She was an awe-inspiring youkai who took advantage of humans' kindness. However, since she's forbidden to attack humans in Gensokyo, she currently runs a fishery at the Sanzu River.

If one tries to cross the river without a shinigami's permission, they'll be attacked by creatures like extinct giant fish and plesiosaurs. Nowadays, she spends her time domesticating those giant fish, and makes a living wage by sometimes selling them in Gensokyo.

A baby then a cow with a baby. Urumi is the "Parental Guardian of Ancient Fish". She apparently domesticates them and makes a living wage (interesting terminology?) sometimes selling them to Gensokyo. But, it's implied that as a fisher, she actually cares about these fish. In Reimu (Wolf)'s story:

Reimu: I'm fine, thanks. If it's just fish I'll have to deal with, I'll filet 'em no problem.

Urumi: That so? Fine by me, then. I won't hold back when I turn you into food for my beloved ancient fish!

When Reimu threatens her fish, Urumi gets defensive. She refers to her fish as "beloved" and suggests valuing them over the protagonist, even though she isn't supposed to attack humans. In the SCooW interview, ZUN is asked, more or less, what's up with the fish in the Sanzu river? He responds:

It's full of fish that died, or went extinct. They can't go to Hell or the Netherworld after they die, you see... since fish and insects are in a bit of a separate category, the way I think about it.

So, remember that distinction we made earlier when talking about Ebisu? How the animals that have been proven to be sentient are mammals, birds, reptiles (cephalopods, crustaceans)? That excludes fish and insects, and here, ZUN makes that distinction as well. Fish sentience is still pretty up in the air at the moment. But that said, if there's any unintentional message in WBaWC, I suppose it would be here.

The fact that Urumi is able to domesticate these ancient fish in the first place implies a certain degree of sentience, and moreso, even without that, Urumi pretty clearly ascribes moral value to her fish in Reimu (Wolf)! In almost all routes, she defends her fish and suggests she'll feed the protagonist to them, but Reimu(Wolf) makes it the most clear that she actually cares about them. Which, when you think about it, of course you'll care about the things you domesticate.

Also Urumi's design is so cool and yet no one draws her anymore. Justice for Moist Beauty. There is more to be said about the livestock theme of this character, but we'll get back to that when we talk about Yachie's profile.

Kuwaka Niwatari.

Her true identity is that of Niwatarijin, the god of wild chickens from before they were domesticated. People tend to think of chickens as being sort of weak and cowardly, but she's a polite and just god who values equality and altruism above all. She's quietly considering what she can do to help raise the status of chickens, who've been reduced to a food source for humans.

If you've been following along so far, you probably understand already where this is going. A few words may stand out here. Domestication, equality and altruism above all, status, and "food source for humans."

Kutaka is probably the blatantly nicest character in WBaWC, who tests you because she's worried that if you go further, you'll be hurt (after winning, of course, the protagonists insult her). There's not just a ton to say about Kutaka's character itself, but there is this tidbit in ZUN's interview:

Chickens don't usually have a very positive image attached to them. Calling someone a "chicken" certainly doesn't make them sound strong either, right? And the only other common impression of them is as food, so I tried to give her a dignified feeling.

So, ZUN has deliberately designed Kutaka to be dignified, noted that she is a character who values equality and altruism, and included that one of her motivations is to raise the status of chickens who have been "reduced to a food source for humans." What's fascinating is that by creating Kutaka this way, he has given us a message - ZUN believes, to a degree, that Kutaka's motivation is a just one. Kutaka is intended TO raise the status of chickens. So let me say this. To those of you who made fucking chicken wing jokes after this character was revealed:

STOP. FUCK YOU. STOP.

If you'd like to repent, you can start by stacking stones. Trust me, it's fun!

Now, all of this is cool, but part 2 is where it's going to get interesting - when we finally get to Yachie's profile, the description of the "Animal Realm" of Hell. I'm excited, but I need to make dinner. Part 2 coming soon.

#touhou #th17 #wily beast and weakest creature #eika ebisu #urumi ushizaki #kuwaka niwatari #philosophy #animal ethics #reblogs appreciated greatly #patchunslibrary

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passionate-reply · 3 years

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This week on Great Albums: one of very few albums that I think is truly perfect. John Foxx’s second solo LP, The Garden, is a masterpiece of Medieval mysticism, romantic longing, and modern electronics. Transcript below the break!

Welcome to Passionate Reply, and welcome to Great Albums! In this installment, I’ll be looking at a classic sophomore album, and one which epitomizes the principle of taking one’s sound in a different direction the second time around: The Garden by John Foxx, first released in 1981.

While The Garden was Foxx’s second release as a solo artist, it’s also his fifth LP overall, as he had spent the late 1970s fronting the original incarnation of Ultravox. Foxx’s Ultravox was an eclectic mix of influences from glam, punk, and, of course, electronic pioneers like Kraftwerk, but it would be the latter of these ideas that dominated Foxx’s solo career. His 1980 solo debut, Metamatic, is some of the purest, starkest, and harshest minimal synth around, and remains one of the most iconic early works of the subgenre.

Music: “Underpass”

If you want more like Metamatic from Foxx, you’ll want to skip ahead to the 1990s, because he turned his back on this thin and aggressively inorganic sound remarkably quickly. While he would produce several more LPs in the 1980s, the group of them seems to grow progressively lighter and softer, with less blistering analogue synth, and more radio-friendly love themes. But while Foxx’s third and fourth efforts are often panned, The Garden has actually won nearly as many fans over the years as Metamatic, proving itself to be powerful in its own ways, despite its radically different aesthetic. Where Metamatic dealt in brutalist city blocks and Ballardian psycho-sexuality, The Garden takes place in moldering cathedrals, embracing Gothic splendour and (imagined) Medieval emotionality.

Music: “Europe After the Rain”

“Europe After the Rain” opens the album, and also served as its lead single, becoming a relatively minor hit in the charts. As we hear it, we immediately become aware that Foxx has abandoned the instrumental palette of Metamatic, made almost exclusively with an ARP 2600 synthesiser, in favour of something more lush. On “Europe After the Rain,” traditional instruments like acoustic guitar and piano are impossible to ignore, though the constant bass synth ensures we never forget Foxx’s roots either. It also seems to be a major thematic leap away from Metamatic, with its tender and romantic feel. Still, that may not necessarily be all there is to it--the song is presumably named after a famous painting of the same title, by the Surrealist Max Ernst, executed in the early 1940s as World War II was first beginning. Ernst’s painting is a sort of apocalyptic vision, in which crumbling structures are overtaken by vegetation, and two figures wander through it, seemingly passing by one another. Perhaps Foxx’s “Europe After the Rain” is also a theme for a devastated landscape, its lovers meeting again the last survivors of some nuclear holocaust? Maybe it isn’t too far away from the themes of crushing modernity employed on Metamatic after all.

Note, as well, the emphasis on “Europe,” conceptually--The Garden is, at least partially, a sort of search for a new European cultural identity. The Garden fuses electronics, and hence Europe’s characteristic technological achievements, with a love of more traditional European cultural ideals, namely, the aesthetics of Medieval Christianity. For evidence of that idea, look no further than its most obvious apotheosis, the track “Pater Noster.”

Music: “Pater Noster”

“Pater Noster” is, of course, a setting of the Latin-language translation of the so-called “Our Father�� or Lord’s Prayer, one of the most popular and well-known texts in Christianity. “Pater Noster” is the album’s most obvious love letter to the Middle Ages, but an informed listen will show that it has little to do with actual music from that era--I actually could forgive the synthesisers, which might be analogized to the role of church organs, but the percussion-propelled nature of the track is what really makes it feel ahistorical to me. Despite the religious themes of The Garden, Foxx always averred not being any sort of authentic believer in religion or God, and maintained that he was interested in the traditions of the Church purely on aesthetic grounds. Whether you think this sort of appropriation is appropriate and respectful or not, it’s certainly one of the album’s prominent themes, and part of what makes it feel as unique as it does. While I’ve emphasized the themes of romanticism and religiosity, it’s also worth noting that The Garden is not a complete break from Foxx’s earlier works, and in its return to a more guitar-driven sound, it often winds up riffing on something not unlike punk.

Music: “Systems of Romance”

Astute followers of Foxx will have already noticed that the track “Systems of Romance” shares its title with the third and final LP he released with Ultravox, in 1979. Apparently, it was written that much earlier, though it wouldn’t be seen to completion until several years later. Combining a hard-driving guitar, played by Foxx’s Ultravox bandmate Robin Simon, with the inscrutable, sensual, elemental lyricism Foxx employs throughout his mid-80s oeuvre, the track “Systems of Romance” really feels like a bridge between 70s art rock and 80s avant-synth-pop, moreso than anything else on the album. Much as “Systems of Romance” extracts a certain prettiness from punk, so does the aesthetically-oriented “Night Suit,” which plays with appearance, deception, and masculinity.

Music: “Night Suit”

“Night Suit” is the track on The Garden that I feel is the most exemplary of its own time period, a mysterious ode to a mystical garment that could almost feel at home on an album by Visage. The Garden is interested in “romantic” themes, but “Night Suit” truly feels at peace among the New Romantics. It’s got some of the most “believable” rock influences, with a prominent guitar riff from Simon, and yet its emphasis on the power of fashion and appearances, destructive, and perhaps even supernatural, is hard to imagine in a genuine punk context. As it implores us to “be someone” or “be no-one,” it’s easy to fit “Night Suit” into one of the major themes throughout Foxx’s career: the tranquility and liberation of personal anonymity. Why is the “Night Suit” a suit in the first place? The song wouldn’t make sense if it didn’t deal with a garment that is also a non-garment, something to wear that feels default, neutral, and unassuming--not to mention classically masculine.

On the cover of The Garden, the main thing we see is, well, a garden. Despite Foxx’s more obvious personal presence on the albums before and after The Garden, it’s easy to miss him here, dwarfed by the scale of nature that surrounds him. It’s almost like the album is more meant to be about this place, and the concept of “the garden,” than it is Foxx as a person, or any particular perspective of his.

While the actual capital-R Romantics were deeply interested in the “sublime,” and the scenes and moments in which mankind faces its vulnerability and insignificance when compared to the natural world, it’s also worth remembering that a “garden,” by definition, is really not a natural space at all, but rather one which is arranged by human hands. Even if this composition resembles those of Romantic painters, I think it’s worth looking earlier in the European past to interpret this one. Gardens were one of the most prominent symbols in Medieval literature, and scholars have suggested that they serve as symbols for sensuality, romance, and the yoni itself. Through the association with the Garden of Eden, gardens often represent a sort of lost, but longed-for paradise, and a return to innocence which is as tantalizing as it is impossible. In particular, “Europe After the Rain,” with its theme of lovers meeting again after the passage of some time, seems to connect with this idea.

In hindsight, The Garden really stands alone in Foxx’s career, a masterpiece whose precise style he would never attempt again. We might say it became that Garden of Eden, to which the artist could never return. While Foxx’s interest in Medieval spirituality would return on ambient works like Cathedral Oceans, and he would occasionally return to love songs with an electronic backing, the precise combination of lovelorn bardistry with a flair for the baroque that appears on The Garden remains totally singular. Foxx’s follow-up to this album, 1983’s The Golden Section, narrows its thematic focus towards poppy love songs, and its instrumental focus, likewise, is that of a fairly unremarkable mid-80s synth-pop record. But at the same time, I like to think that tracks like “The Hidden Man” manage to maintain a sense of the mystical.

Music: “The Hidden Man”

My favourite track on The Garden is “Walk Away.” While it lacks the severe and tragic grandeur of the album’s title track, which closes the album on a lofty note, “Walk Away” shares some of its delicate qualities, reviving the soft piano that we heard on “Europe After the Rain.” Thematically, “Walk Away” seems to deal with fragility and transience, and the grave significance that a brief, passing moment may have--which makes that “delicateness” feel all the more poignant in context. Its call-and-response outro, featuring one of Foxx’s most anguished vocal performances, really makes it a stand-out. That’s everything for today--as always, thanks for listening!

Music: “Walk Away”

#music #album review #album reviews #great albums #john foxx

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flightfoot · 4 years

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Analyzing Reyna’s romance (or rather, lack thereof) arc and her feelings towards it throughout the series

Recently, Rick published a tweet about Reyna’s orientation, stating “Personally, I see her as romantic asexual and have written her arc with that in mind. (hence the prophecy in HoO) It’s been a struggle for her to figure that out, as she explains in Tyrant’s Tomb. But as always, interpret the text as you wish.”

After reading Tyrant’s Tomb, I figured she was somewhere around ace or aro, so it was cool to see it confirmed that he wrote her with that in mind! Especially since I’m ace myself, and we don’t get a ton of representation. It was just really neat.

In light of that, I wanted to lay out and analyze her arc as it relates to her orientation, to who she’s attracted (or moreso, not attracted) to, starting from her first appearance and continuing through to Tyrant’s Tomb.

Starting all the way from “Son of Neptune”, there’s hints and conversations about Reyna’s love life woven in, with Percy noticing how Reyna reacts to Jason being mentioned.

Reyna grimaced. Percy got the feeling this guy Jason might’ve been more to her than just a colleague. (SON 41)

Percy doesn’t know much of anything about Jason or Reyna or the culture in Camp Jupiter, so he doesn’t have much of a bias towards thinking they’re a couple because of those factors. For Percy to still pick up on Reyna being especially close to Jason is a pretty good indicator that that wasn’t just other people reading into it, seeing what they expect to see from Reyna - something which DOES happen a lot, and that Reyna goes into in Tyrant’s Tomb.

Jason… Percy couldn’t go very far in this camp without hearing that name.

“The way you talk about him…” Percy said. “Were you two a couple?”

Reyna’s eyes bored into him – like the eyes of a hungry wolf. Percy had seen enough hungry wolves to know.

“We might have been,” Reyna said, “given time. Praetors work closely together. It’s common for them to become romantically involved. But Jason was only praetor for a few months before he disappeared. Ever since then, Octavian has been pestering me, agitating for new elections. I’ve resisted. I’ve resisted. I need a new partner in power – but I prefer someone like Jason. A warrior, not a schemer.”

She waited. Percy realized she was sending him a silent invitation.

His mouth went dry. “Oh… you mean… oh.”

“I believe the gods sent you to help me,” Reyna said. “I don’t understand where you come from, any more than I understood it four years ago. But I think your arrival is some form of repayment. You destroyed my home once. Now you’ve been sent to save my home. I don’t hold a grudge against you for the past, Percy. My sister hates you still, it’s true, but Fate brought me here to Camp Jupiter. I’ve done well. All I ask is that you work with me for the future. I intend to save this camp. (SON 181)

Initially when she’s introduced, and in the early books especially, Reyna gives off this extremely dangerous vibe, with Percy especially being nervous about her. Her initial proposition here seems very opportunistic at first, with the emphasis being on the power that comes from being her partner first and foremost, and any more romantic (or otherwise) partnership being implied as an add-on. It isn’t really clear whether she has any actual feelings for him or not.

“The point is, Percy, you are the real power on this quest. You are a seasoned veteran. I’ve seen what you can do. A son of Neptune wouldn’t be my first choice, but if you return successfully from this mission, the legion might be saved. The praetorship will be yours for the taking. Together, you and I could expand the power of Rome. We could raise an army and find the Doors of Death, crush Gaea’s forces once and for all. You would find me a very helpful… friend.”

She said that word like it could have several meanings, and he could pick which one.

Percy’s feet started tapping on the floor, anxious to run. “Reyna… I’m honored, and all. Seriously. But I’ve got a girlfriend. And I don’t want power, or a praetorship.”

Percy was afraid he’d made her mad. Instead she just raised her eyebrows.

“A man who turns down power?” she said. “That’s not very Roman of you. Just think about it. In four days, I have to make a choice. If we are to fight off an invasion, we must have two strong praetors. I’d prefer you, but if you fail on your quest, or don’t come back, or refuse my offer… Well, I’ll work with Octavian. I mean to save this camp, Percy Jackson. Things are worse than you realize.” (SON 182-183)

Reyna’s giving off a “together we can rule” kind of vibe, though for benevolent purposes. And the emphasis on him not being her first choice necessarily but preferring him to other options, along with the casual way she talks about him possibly failing his quest or not making it back compounds the perception that this isn’t really about Percy personally, and not about any attraction she may or may not have towards him, but just what he can offer as far as strengthening the camp goes.

He could tell the audience was over. Reyna was having trouble holding herself together, keeping up the image of the confident commander. She needed some time by herself.

But at the door of the principia, Percy couldn’t resist turning. “How did we destroy your home – that spa where you lived?”

The metal greyhounds growled. Reyna snapped her fingers to silence them.

“You destroyed the power of our mistress,” she said. “You freed some prisoners who took revenge on all of us who lived on the island. My sister and I… well, we survived. It was difficult. But in the long run, I think we are better off away from that place.”

“Still, I’m sorry,” Percy said. “If I hurt you, I’m sorry.”

Reyna gazed at him for a long time, as if trying to translate his words. “An apology? Not very Roman at all, Percy Jackson. You’d make an interesting praetor. I hope you’ll think about my offer.” (SON 184-185)

The bit about Reyna having trouble holding herself together and keeping up this image shows a crack in her earlier portrayal, that maybe she isn’t quite as... impassive I think? As she appears while making her ‘offer’ to Percy. It does make me wonder though, how much of this portrayal of her during this scene was a deliberately planned part of her character arc since the beginning, and how much was Rick writing this in the early stages and slowly figuring out her character along the way. In later scenes, especially in later books, it seemed like less of a purely pragmatic offer, and more of one with at least some twinges of actual desire behind it, albeit only twinges (not like she knows Percy that well anyway).

She glanced up at the warship. Her expression turned a little wistful. “You say Jason is aboard… I hope that’s true. I’ve missed him.” (SON 512)

Even here, though, at the end of SON, the stalwart commander image she tries to project softens a little, and her closeness with Jason, her desire to see him again, is emphasized. Platonic or romantic, she definitely cares for him.

“Enough,” Reyna snapped. “Annabeth is what she says. She’s here in peace. Besides…” She gave Annabeth a look of grudging respect. “Percy has spoken highly of you.”

The undertones in Reyna’s voice took Annabeth a moment to decipher. Percy looked down, suddenly interested in his cheeseburger.

Annabeth’s face felt hot. Oh gods… Reyna had tried to make a move on Percy. That explained the tinge of bitterness, maybe even envy in her words. Percy had turned her down for Annabeth. (MOA 24)

Here’s where there starts being some pretty strong implications that Reyna did actually care about Percy more personally, her romantic offer was for more than just convenience sake. Especially with the ‘maybe even envy’ part. The bitterness could just as easily be from just the rejection, but the envy implies she actively wants what Annabeth has.

“Uh, Reyna,” Jason said. “if you don’t mind, I’d like to show Piper around before the senate meeting. She’s never seen New Rome.”

Reyna’s expression hardened.

Annabeth wondered how Jason could be so dense. Was it possible he really didn’t understand how much Reyna liked him? It was obvious enough to Annabeth. Asking to show his new girlfriend around Reyna’s city was rubbing salt in a wound.

“Of course,” Reyna said coldly.

Percy took Annabeth’s hand. “Yeah, me too, I’d like to show Annabeth-“

“No,” Reyna snapped.

Percy knit his eyebrows. “Sorry?”

“I’d like a few words with Annabeth,” Reyna said. “Alone. If you don’t mind, my fellow praetor.”

Her tone made it clear she wasn’t really asking permission.

The chill spread down Annabeth’s back. She wondered what Reyna was up to. Maybe the praetor didn’t like the idea of two guys who had rejected her giving their girlfriends tours of her city. Or maybe there was something she wanted to say in private. Either way, Annabeth was reluctant to be alone and unarmed with the Roman leader. (MOA 32)

Reyna did have some things she wanted to go over with Annabeth privately, but with the emphasis on Annabeth being able to tell how much Reyna likes Jason, her reacting coldly to him asking to take Piper around the city, along with the way she snapped at Percy for asking to take Annabeth around instead of stating her refusal more calmly, her reactions strongly suggest that she IS hurting from seeing both Percy and Jason with their girlfriends, that she does have feelings for them somewhat, and is trying to suppress it.

“Long story,” Reyna said. “But I remember you well. You were brave. I’d never seen anyone refuse Circe’s hospitality, much less outwit her. It’s no wonder Percy cares for you.”

Her voice was wistful. Annabeth thought it might be safer not to respond. (MOA 37-38)

I didn’t pull quotations emphasizing this specifically, but Reyna’s loneliness and the strain she’s under as a commander, especially having been the lone praetor for so long, is putting her under a lot of stress. I think at least part of the reason for her hints of envy towards Annabeth and coldness about Jason having a girlfriend, is derived from her not really having had the sort of support that Percy and Jason currently have, that intimacy, that ability to drop the walls and image she’s built up in order to lead and to protect herself.

“I wanted to hear it from you,” Reyna said.

Annabeth turned. “Hear what from me?”

“The truth,” Reyna said. “Convince me I’m not making a mistake by trusting you. Tell me about yourself. Tell me about Camp Half-Blood. Your friend Piper has sorcery in her words. I spent enough time with Circe to know charmspeak when I hear it. I can’t trust what she says. And Jason… well, he has changed. He seems distant, no longer quite Roman.”

The hurt in her voice was as sharp as broken glass. Annabeth wondered if she had sounded that way, all the months she’d been searching for Percy. At least she’d found her boyfriend. Reyna had no one. She was responsible for running an entire camp all by herself. Annabeth could sense that Reyna wanted Jason to love her. But he had disappeared, only to come back with a new girlfriend. Meanwhile, Percy had risen to praetor, but he had rebuffed Reyna too. Now Annabeth had come to take him away. Reyna would be left alone again, shouldering a job meant for two people.

When Annabeth had arrived at Camp Jupiter, she’d been prepared to negotiate with Reyna or even fight her if needed. She hadn’t been prepared to feel sorry for her.

She kept that feeling hidden. Reyna didn’t strike her as someone who would appreciate pity. (MOA 38-39)

The loneliness is really apparent here, and very explicit. I don’t think it’s even really about ‘romantic love’, as far as the whole thing with Jason goes, exactly, but... being that high level of priority. Having someone there for you closely. I think she at least thinks that a romantic relationship with Jason, or even Percy, may provide that. And that’s something most people need, regardless of orientation.

“You see?” Reyna said bitterly. “The spear is thrown. Our people are at war.”

“Not if I succeed,” Annabeth said.

Reyna’s expression looked the same as it had at Camp Jupiter when she realized Jason had found another girl. The praetor was too alone, too bitter and betrayed to believe anything could go right for her ever again. Annabeth waited for her to attack. (MOA 253)

Between this sudden attack out of nowhere, Jason disappearing and returning with having bonded with these new people, especially Piper, and having ‘changed’ as she said, no longer having anyone around she’s close to... well. She’s just managing as best she can.

In the center of the line stood Reyna, her metal dogs Aurum and Argentum at her side. Upon seeing her, Jason felt an incredible pang of guilt. He’d let her believe they had a future together. He had never been in love with her, and he hadn’t led her on exactly… but he also hadn’t shut her down.

He’d disappeared, leaving her to run the camp on her own. (Okay, that hadn’t exactly been Jason’s idea, but still…) Then he had returned to Camp Jupiter with his new girlfriend Piper and a whole bunch of Greek friends in a warship. They’d fired on the Forum and run away, leaving Reyna with a war on her hands. (HOH 247)

I couldn’t find much about Reyna’s relationships with others in HOH since she’s barely in the book. From the looks of things, he’d at least believed that Reyna wanted to be with him actively long-term, something which jives pretty well with previous passages concerning Reyna’s relationship with Jason. Makes me curious how exactly they interacted in the past, what went down between them.

Also more emphasis on Reyna being stressed and on her own. That seems to be pretty heavily associated with anything talking about her love life.

So far in the ancient lands, she’d only seen one place on her wish list: Diocletian’s Palace in Split, and even that visit had hardly gone the way she’d imagined. Reyna used to dream about going there with Jason to admire their favorite emperor’s home. She pictured romantic walks with him through the old city, sunset picnics on the parapets. (BOO 75)

And then comes Blood of Olympus, where we actually get to see Reyna’s perspective, her thoughts, instead of having to infer them from other characters’ perceptions of her. The daydreaming about going on trips with him and explicitly ‘romantic’ walks and picnics seems like she genuinely desired that to some extent. Though I do notice those are pretty cliche desires, so that may also feed into the part of her arc with feeling pressured to perform a certain way, to ‘be’ a certain way, and believing that this is how to find happiness.

She found Thalia’s eyes distracting: electric blue, intense, and alert, so much like Jason’s. (BOO 221)

Just wanted to note this bit, since she’s paying special attention to Thalia here, especially her eyes. Though I’m iffy about this representing attraction to Reyna, since Thalia’s eyes are often commented on (at least in their heads) and a major factor in paying attention to them seems to have to do with them being like Jason’s, which could account for the focus.

The giant’s eyes clicked and dilated. Red laser dots floated across Reyna’s breastplate. “Ah, the young praetor. I admit, I’ve been curious. Before I slay you, perhaps you’ll enlighten me. Why would a child of Rome go to such lengths to help the Greeks? You have forfeited your rank, abandoned your legion, made yourself an outlaw – and for what? Jason Grace scorned you. Percy Jackson refused you. Haven’t you been… what’s the word… dumped enough?”

Reyna’s ears buzzed. She recalled Aphrodite’s warning, two years ago in Charleston: You will not find love where you wish or where you hope. No demigod shall heal your heart.

She forced herself to meet the giant’s gaze. “I don’t define myself by the boys who may or may not like me.” (BOO 238)

It just occurred to me that I really have no clue how Orion knows about Reyna’s love life. Like I know Python can provide some intel, but was that detail REALLY that important?

Anyway, this statement by Reyna, “I don’t define myself by the boys who may or may not like me.”, is an important step in how she relates to romance in general, and in her portrayal in the series, particularly in the Tyrant’s Tomb. Before this a lot of emphasis was placed on her being rejected by Percy and Jason, and of at least somewhat wanting to be with them in some capacity, or at least believing that she did. After this she seems more at peace with herself and less focused on past or present pursuit of relationships for herself.

“Once in Charleston, Venus told me something. She said: You will not find love where you wish or where you hope. No demigod shall heal your heart. I- I have struggled with that for…” Her words broke. (BOO 492)

Near the end of BOO, she finally talks to someone about this. A lot of people know, but... well, with the emphasis on how alone she is, how she has to keep up appearances, it doesn’t seem like she’s really gotten a chance to break down and talk to someone. I’m glad she got to do it with Piper. And this proclamation, this prophecy, the seeming hopelessness of it that appears to re-emphasize her being alone, along with implying that she’s broken in some way with the reference to her needing to be ‘healed’... I can only imagine how it would torment her.

Reyna rolled her eyes. “If I had a denarius for every time I got that question… Aside from the fact that Thalia is in the Hunters, and thus sworn to celibacy… why does a strong friendship always have to progress to romance? Thalia’s an excellent friend. Why would I risk messing that up?” (TTT 228)

By TTT she’s had a lot more time to come to terms with her thoughts and feelings about relationships and romance, plus she’s not alone anymore, though the situation is still dire and stressful. While during HOO her being without support and having to manage everything by herself was interwoven with the narrative about her feelings towards Jason and Percy and her lack of romantic relationships, that’s not present here. In fact, it’s the opposite, with her having a strong friendship and having no desire to turn it into something romantic. It seems like those concepts became unbundled, with her having strong support and friendship unrelated to any romance.

Reyna broke a dry branch off a shrub and flicked it into the underbrush. “I went on that quest with Jason, what, two years ago? Venus took one look at me and decided… I don’t know. I was broken. I needed romantic healing. Whatever. I wasn’t back at camp a full day before the whispering started. Nobody would admit that they knew, but they knew. The looks I got: Oh, poor Reyna. The innocent suggestions I got about who I should date.”

She didn’t sound angry. It was more like weighed down and weary. I remembered Frank Zhang’s concern about how long Reyna had shouldered the burdens of leadership, how he wished he could do more to relieve her. Apparently, a lot of legionnaires wanted to help Reyna. Not all of that had been welcome or useful.

“The thing is,” she continued, “I’m not broken.”

“Of course not.” (TTT 233)

This conception about “being broken” is something aces tend to end up feeling, at least without knowing more about asexuality. I didn’t get it as much since I wasn’t surrounded with as much emphasis on dating and sex as a lot of other people are, so I started figuring out maybe I was different from most other people only awhile after having run across the term; I just figured it was normal to have this attraction thing start up sometime later, like late teens or so, and that I didn’t exactly know what people were talking about anyway so maybe I just didn’t recognize it. By the time I figured out that I probably wasn’t going to develop this “sexual attraction” thing anytime soon I already knew about different sexualities and was able to research the topic to see what best description best fit my own experience. So I’m glad Rick touched on Reyna’s discomfort here. With some of the earlier passages I think she may have come to view herself the same way other people were viewing her, as needing a romantic partner to help her, but now she’s realized that was never really necessary for her; she doesn’t need that in her life.

After this, the whole scene with Lester awkwardly asking Reyna out occurs, and she figures out how ridiculous all this stress over who she should be with is, that it’s not something she needs to force herself to do, to dedicate all this time and energy too.

“My whole life, I’ve been living with other people’s expectations of what I’m supposed to be. Be this. Be that. You know?”

[…]

“But the whole time I’ve been a leader here,” she forged on, “I was looking for a partner. Praetors often partner up. In power. But also romantically, I mean. I thought Jason. Then for a hot minute, Percy Jackson. Gods help me, I even considered Octavian.” She shuddered. “Everybody was always trying to ship me with somebody. Thalia. Jason. Gwen. Even Frank. Oh, you’d be perfect together! That’s who you need! But I was never really sure if I wanted that, or if I just felt like I was supposed to want it. People, well-meaning, would be like, Oh, you poor thing. You deserve somebody in your life. Date him. Date her. Date whoever. Find your soulmate.”

She looked to me to see if I was following. Her words came out hot and fast, as if she’d been holding them in for a long time. “And that meeting with Venus. That really messed me up. No demigod will heal your heart. What was that supposed to mean? Then finally, you came along.”

“Do we have to review that part again? I am quite embarrassed enough.”

“But you showed me. When you proposed dating…”

She took a deep breath, her body shaking with silent giggles. “Oh, gods. I saw how ridiculous I’d been. How ridiculous the whole situation was. That’s what healed my heart – being able to laugh at myself again, at my stupid ideas about destiny. That allowed me to break free – just like Frank broke free of his firewood. I don’t need another person to heal my heart. I don’t need a partner… at least, not until and unless I’m ready on my own terms. I don’t need to be force-shipped with anyone or wear anyone else’s label. For the first time in a long time, I feel like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders. So thank you.” (TTT 405-406)

I understand her confusion here about whether she herself wanted to be with someone, or whether she felt like she should enough that she forced some facsimile of those feelings onto herself. I suspect that there were at least twinges of genuine romantic feelings concerning Jason at least - a lot of the focus around romance is in regards to him, and some of her reactions regarding him appeared to be more instinctual to me, like her reaction to him suggesting showing Piper around the city. Now how strong those feelings really were and whether they’d sync up well with a romantic relationship, I’m not sure. Just because you can imagine a relationship being one way, actually experiencing it you may find it’s not for you, that conceptually it’s appealing but not when actually trying to have one.

She doesn’t seem entirely sure of her own feelings as far as dating someone goes either, but she’s letting go of the idea, of the feeling that she needs to figure it out now. She can just... be.

When I was first trying to figure out what the heck my orientation was, I fretted about it for a bit, trying to analyze my own feelings and compulsions. I thought demisexual or asexual, and as for my romantic orientation... bi perhaps?

Eventually I just... stopped worrying over it. At least all that much. Pretty sure I’m ace, but romantic orientation I’m still unsure of, though I’m currently leaning aro. And even in my twenties, I’m not totally clear on it. And I don’t have to be. Neither does Reyna. If she ends up with feelings for someone, of whatever gender, that’s fine. If she doesn’t, that’s fine too. Maybe she’ll end up changing what she thinks of herself, what she believes her orientation is as she has more experiences. Or maybe she won’t. It’s good either way.

Joining the Hunters decoupled the themes of loneliness, of isolation from HOO with the idea of romantic relationships even more thoroughly. She has that sort of camaraderie with them. She doesn’t need to be strong for them, to be the high leader. She has that support, along with not needing to be responsible for so many people’s welfare and morale anymore, all without any romantic pressure. She can just chill. There’s a reason she regards it as a vacation. And seriously, good for her!

Side note: based on the focus Reyna has on male characters as possibly being viable partners while not seeming to consider any female characters in the same light, even listing Jason, Percy, and Octavian (though I kinda doubt that was romantic) as ones she considered, but listing Thalia, Jason, Gwen, and Frank as people she was shipped with, I suspect that she’s hetero-leaning. It’s hardly conclusive evidence though, headcanon what you like.

#reyna avila ramirez arellano #reyna ramirez arellano #trials of apollo #heroes of olympus #toa #hoo #asexuality #analysis #my analysis

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ober-affen-geil · 4 years

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Never, in my life, did I think that I, an asexual, would feel seen by a CW show. But I very much did, so let’s talk about how Alex Manes made that happen for me.

*spoilers for 2x06, if you weren’t already spoiled lmao. CW for discussion of sexual situations*

To reiterate more specifically: NEVER. In my life. Did I think that I, an asexual, would feel seen by a THREEWAY SEX SCENE in a CW show. And fair warning I am writing this without really looking at anything besides the episode so bear with me, this is gonna be a lot more about my reaction to the scene than anything else.

So the thing is, in my opinion, that moment wasn’t really about sex. It was about love and comfort and making sure that everyone present was included in that reassurance.

It’s coming on the heels of a pretty intense evening; Michael, Maria, and Alex were all threatened with deadly bodily harm and Michael and Alex were actually physically injured. Alex arguably moreso.

I’ve noted it when talking about Michael and Alex (like a lot so I’m not even going to try to link a specific meta), but Alex is actually a person who communicates well with physical touch; it’s a big part of his body language when it comes to him expressing intimacy. He’s not necessarily used to it casually (note the eyebrows flying into outer space when Maria sits on him in 2x05), but he does use it for comfort with people he loves.

In the truck with Maria earlier in the episode for example, he reaches out to her physically in reassurance several times. In the Airstream while Michael is tending to his stab wound (AND NO, I WILL NEVER BE OVER THE IRONY OF MICHAEL TREATING A HOLE IN ALEX’S CHEST), Maria is plastered to Alex’s side.

In fact, Maria is the one communicating with physical comfort in this scene, a lot.

Michael says “I could have lost you. Both of you.” while crouching at their feet. He then stands and moves away to the other side of the Airstream, unsure if his physical presence is welcomed by either of them. He and Maria are by all appearances still on the outs after she learned the truth and he and Alex are only just starting to get new ground under their feet in terms of their relationship to each other. Maria moves to offer him reassurance, and this is the first time she leaves Alex’s side since the scene began.

She tells Michael “I’m here” in answer to his fears, and kisses him in further reassurance. It’s clear at this point Alex is feeling like he’s not welcome, like he’s intruding. He makes excuses (It’s getting late) and Maria immediately moves to his side again. She reaches for him, again, and tells him “I don’t want you to go.” And Alex, either in an effort to comfort her or in a moment of vulnerability (or both, why not), says “I don’t really want to leave.” This is when it becomes obvious to Maria (imo) that Alex is not just accepting physical comfort right now, he needs it. Badly. So she kisses him.

This is not a sexual gesture. Honestly, her kissing Michael wasn’t really a sexual gesture either, but this one most certainly isn’t.

We know from their conversation in the truck that this is not the first time Alex and Maria have kissed. And it’s definitely not the first time Alex has been physically intimate with a woman, but he specifically says that Maria was the only one he didn’t feel like he was hiding himself with.

“Kissing you in that closet was the first time I enjoyed touching someone”, so for Alex, Maria is someone he loves; he takes genuine comfort from her contact. It doesn’t mean he’s any less gay. It is possible for a gay man to love a woman deeply, and even to engage in intimate physical contact with her, without experiencing sexual attraction to her. (Split attraction model ‘till I die.)

Maria kissing Alex is reassurance, not an indication of sexual interest. Michael is the one who voices the fear that he almost lost both Maria and Alex, but in reality they all almost lost each other. The kiss is Maria’s way of saying “I’m here, it’s ok, I want you to stay. I’m here.”

(This is where we really get into my interpretation of things so bear with me, this is my opinion and I’m not stating it as fact.)

When Maria pulls back, Alex repeats his line (Maria, I don’t want to leave) which, to me, says he’s emphasizing something. His glance at Michael makes me think he’s trying to tell Maria that he does need and want physical comfort right now, from Michael. It’s not...asking permission so much as telling her what he’s feeling.

“I just want us all safe” is her answer, and it’s...again not permission but more...acquiescence. Agreement, and an echo of sentiment. Maria can’t give Alex the comfort he needs right now, and he can’t give her what she needs either. But Michael can offer them both what they need, if he consents. He double checks with them (What are we doing?) because this is a pretty big step to take, but Maria answers him the same way she did Alex. “It’s ok.”

What follows is. Well sex, for sure, but it’s not about that. When Michael and Alex have their talk the morning after, Michael says with certainty it made him feel “loved”. And Alex agrees. Which is kind of a big deal, for both of them.

It was a sharing, an acknowledgement of both Alex and Maria’s romantic and sexual feelings for Michael (and his for them) as well as the deep, platonic love of Alex and Maria’s friendship. It’s an incredible display of trust and vulnerability, which is probably why Alex describes the idea of it as “hell” after the fact.

But it wasn’t hellish, it was necessary physical comfort offered and given freely. It was love, plain and simple. And that’s fucking beautiful imo.

#roswell new mexico #rnm #alex manes #maria deluca #michael guerin #malex #miluca #malexa #roswell season 2 #my roswell meta #list #a riley special

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stray-tori · 4 years

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TPN S02E09 - Initial Thoughts (anime-only)

[ Reaction video w/ captions/subs ] we collectively have a breakdown about the pen, please enjoy it pff-

... hmmm... yeah I... ain’t feeling it. I think my tpn feelings overall are carrying this more than anything pff. I didn’t hate it, it was just...... mediocre... like if this wasn’t tpn, I probably would have dropped it at this point.

BUT IT IS TPN SO LET’S GIVE SOME THOUGHTS.

. Random thoughts I don’t want to re-arrange

when Emma was like “share your pain with us!!”, I liked how Norman turned to Ray like “Ray. help. tell her I’m right” kind of like Ray did in s1 pfff-

Norman cried the words he didn’t allow himself to say in s1 :( I’M EMOTIONAL. it might not be the icing on the cake execution wise but GOD MY HEART. And knowing he’s going to die to it’s just- (well not if the pen has something to say about it but more about that later)

where- wheres my trio hug :((( RAY HUG THE CHILD NOW

it’s interesting that while Emma got the entire emotional speech spotlight, only Ray got a reaction shot to “I won’t live long”?? equivalent.... exchange...?

I thought Norman had a seizure when he broke down in front of Emma and Ray and I kinda wish he had because while it’s good to have him say it outright (a win for communicationnn), imagine THE ANGST. “I want to live with yo- *coughs up fountains of blood*”.

So. yknow that hideout Cislo or Vincent referenced when talking to Emma and Ray. Yknow where Norman hid the children they stole from farms, making it look like demons did it? ... w-what about them? will we see them? Are they getting left behind? it would have worked for Norman’s plan, since all they had to do was stay put and wait for demons to be yeeted. But now... he’d have to take them all too. But... I doubt we’re gonna introduce a bunch of new designs and characters? Or are we? Who knows. I don’t. I have unreasonably amount of protecc feelings for those children I’ve never even seen haha- WHERE ARE THEY. I mean... the plan rn is to immediately use the gate right? or is the plan to eradicte the GF farm staff and higher ups? I guess if thats the plan it might work. Or I guess the plan is to save Phil for now???

the idea of Sonju just... slicing his arm and throwing it at demons in a loop sounds so funny to me please someone make that.

I liked that Mujika turned to the lambda kids after giving a cup to the demon children but then we didn’t see their reaction or anything and then it cuts to the temple??? that was weird. was there sth missing there? confusion.

I also like Isabella remarking "[a radio] was supposed to be there" regarding the shelter, because it further heavily implies they know of the shelters and just let them be. Which further confirms that they should have just reframed the shelter and had the kids escape from it quickly but oH WELL.

I really liked demon Emma apologizing and Norman's reaction to that. it was a sweet little moment and like, the realization of apologizing for something that she didn't do but is aware of and all that. Cycle of hatred and all that shiz hell ye. Ik the anime won't rly delve into that but I kind of relish in the angst potential of the village - sure it was undone but some were still eaten and died and transforming people back won't bring those back. So, that’s some hella terrifying implications for families; and I'm assuming Norman is aware of those so. guilt time! not that he wasn't aware it was bad but yeah- I teared up at that moment :<<

I feel like this season really does its best when it’s doing the whole two worlds/species angle. Mujika and Sonju, the village, demon and human Emma... all that stuff.

I wish we had gotten more time (god this is really the season’s downfall) thought to see Vylk talk to the GF kids more often. it’s implied he told them not to hang out there before but I would have liked to have him show up a few more times before that but yeah. Runtime very RIP.

I also feel like CW is bending over backwards to put cliffhangers at the end of episodes. that was already a problem in s1 when they had Phil come in when Don and Gilda were in Isabella's room. it was obvious it'd be a copout but they still did it. I'm just wondering why we had to have Vincent disagree with the group to this extend (and if the shock value might play a part in that). we have 2 more episodes, why are they introducing more plot threads? Just streamline it you dofuses. I just don't know what good can come of it unless it's like an ultra big brain move to help them?? (and then we're back with the forcing cliffhangers thing) - if it's actual conflict, this'll just make things more confusing and clustered, and we don't have time for that right now imo. But who knows maybe it plays into something I just don't understand yet and it'll work out somehow

. Animation flow kinda dead.

I felt like this episode was kind of... awkwardly executed whenever something that was a slightly dynamic movement happened?

The whole bit while Emma is walking up to Norman could have been better, but it’s passable, except that a lot is spelled out for us.

But then she takes his hand really weirdly in a far away shot with bad inbetween timing?? what is that haha-

Or him collapsing is cut really weirdly. you barely really see it, you just kinda piece it together from Emma’s reaction and her catching him.

Most facial expressions are good though, which is arguably the more important part in this scene. I feel like a better execution just would have elevated it even more.

The only one I felt was really awkward in its entirety is Barbara’s scene with the children demons. I felt like that was in particular kind of stiff and the cut between the child and her was too sudden and felt jarring. TPN anime doesn’t really do that sort of stuff a lot, so imo it’s kind of “??” when they do it. With Norman it was too, but that at least had a good transition over to it (with bg and fg panning) and nice animation. Barbara’s just kind of switched. Tbh don’t switch it out, and as the child screams, switch over to her facial expression as her own voice fades into the scream? I think that would have done it too and also be low effort.

I think it’s moreso the flow of the shots than the actual shots though? it’s a bit too fast paced and sometimes missing inbetweens (like the wild demon eating sonju’s hand is literally just 2 frames) - it’s very weird. It’s jarring, but I can’t really explain why.

I’m sorry for the staff, I’m sure the production hasn’t been easy. maybe with the bluray release we’ll get some updated animations/inbetweens.

Some appreciation though:

as mentioned, most of the facial expressions, even if the body language was a bit stiff.

the cut from the trio talking to the eye-transition of the demon and the following breath animation looked nice. Also his arm regenerating!

Sonju smirking as he cuts his arm off, what a bastard

they didn’t have to show Vylk’s arm regenerating casually while they’re talking but they did.

. the lambda crew

If only I cared about you guys. Hahhh it’s just... introducing characters so close to the end is just. A mess. A recipe for disaster.

Where has the anime’s “show off the younger kids” angle gone? I thought they were always pretty good at that. but they haven’t really contributed anything since the whole tidbit about the older children always eating less for them. And even then it was just Lani and Thoma.

Potentially, what segments we saw in the shelter will come back for the GF raid thematically but I’m just... EH?

. the cure pen

at this point, just stick a syringe part at the end of the stick and just inject it and it’s gonna solve everything probably.

I just don’t understand why that needed to happen. Assuming they go to the human world, it’d be perfectly acceptable for me for medicine to be so advanced that it’d be able to like, lessen their symptoms and significantly improve their lifespan.

Don’t just... REMOVE their struggles. It’s okay to not be normal and cured. it’s okay for their lives to be impacted by it going forward. In fact, I’d much prefer that.

(added in later) OH wait they literally spell out why the cure being in the pen is meaningful - because it opens up a path where they can live through not having annihilated all the demons - it's essentially the moral "reward" for not killing them. Since they probably wouldn't have gotten it if they did that. I still think it wasn't needed and the blueprint on its own would suffice for another pen-convinience moment but I kind of get what they're going for, I just don't think it's worth it . In their case, going to the human world (while they don't know it) means having more medical expertise at their disposal which they can then use to survive. UNLESS they're actually not welcome over there and have to hide or something, in that case... that might be hard, true. I guess I'll come back to think about this once it's over. For now, it feels kind of unearned and it wouldn’t even have to be this way in my eyes which makes it somewhat worse.

But good, let’s say in-universe you need it NOW, then at least don’t put??? the medicine??? recipe??? INTO the hologram.

What if they just checked the GF blueprint and Norman goes “hey, Vincent... do you think this [database/archive room] could have some data on our experiments?” - Norman said he tried to develop a drug to help them but the supporters who had that data were purged. but... they had Smee to help them too. But SOMEHOW, a dude from 15 years ago just HAS the cure??? (at least let Norman develop it himself and have the data be just THE DATA and not the recipe).

It might still check out somewhat??

15+ years ago, James Ratri was assumingly still the gatekeeper since the switch to Peter seems somewhat recent considering his big "era of James has ended" speech.

I guess the implication is that just like Smee => Krone => Norman, a supporter all that time ago gave random person the pen when they escaped.

When Vylk found him, he also had just the data medium of the pen (not the entire pen), so maybe the farm thought they eliminated it and that’s why they didn’t change their methods to not work with those drugs anymore? It's still a bit curious that their experimentation hasn't changed at all in 15 years but maybe that's because they keep killing the smart people instead of making them scientists to research for them :D

Somewhere since those 15 years, Smee gave Krone the pen (probably a few years before she got to GF?), which means that at that point the gate the keyword "future" sent them to, was still in tact when Smee gave Krone the pen. Maybe WM wasn't discovered yet at that point?

then WM got discovered, James was chased. He made that phonecall update and was probably eventually killed, along with the human location (and likely bunkers since they knew a radio was supposed to be there, begs the question why they didn't remove it) being discovered (the one with the future keyword) and the gate there being destroyed.

The problem is just that it can make sense when you think about it for way too long and assume things in good-faith, but it still feels unearned.

Maybe I would care more or this would feel a little more earned if we knew ANYTHING about that person? They seemed fairly young, so it’s probably not Minerva/James Ratri. The “hope” talk reminded me of the book in the shelter, but I’m not sure if that checks out either? The cookies were rotten but not completely. I know cookies hold out relatively long, but would they rly not be completely rotten after 15 years? I MEAN. Maybe not. Who knows. I tried to google it but didn’t find anything.

But anyway. That tidbit is going into my “shelter kids OC project” I guess.

But even if the worldbuilding makes sense, I think the data set in itself makes little sense?? How did they find that pen part? Did a supporter give it to them? Why do they have the cure? Clearly their group of escapees wasn’t doing too hot (#help) and they seemed relatively young too so they probably couldn’t have worked in the farm.

Were the shelter escapees lambda escapees? but if that was the case, wouldn’t the WM group have secured the cure information more properly than in just one pen (maybe it was and those were just destroyed, to be fair) - it’s just WEIRD to put the cure for Lambda experiments on the same blueprint as the GF layout??? that makes so little sense.

Plus, why would you send them to GF, when it’s so secured and all that, and not just send them to the human support place our GF kids were sent with the “future” keyword, which had a gate. Maybe it didn’t exist 15 years ago (that the humans had control over it, that is), but even then it seems weird to me to imply to send them to GF instead of one of the other gates that existed. I mean. The “future” location’s gate wasn’t destroyed when Krone got the pen right?

I’m guessing maybe it was meant as help for escaping? But then again, why the cure? I guess if they met lambda experiments? I’m just confused.

Also: do we just accept that the layout of GUARDS and SECURITY MEASURES has not changed in 15 years???

*sigh* welp. Still looking forward to seeing some stuff with Isabella hopefully. Time... is not on their side and it shows. Neither run-time wise nor production wise.

#tpn anime #tpn s2 #tpn anime-only #tpn #tori talks #tori has opinions

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lordxgrinnyxboy · 4 years

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thinking about how Gwynp keeps claiming that Dea wouldn’t love him if she could actually see him, but is immediately ready to marry her upon finding out that he’s a Lord, even though his face is still the same.

which suggests it was never really, about his face at all.

in Ursus’ cart, as the two are sitting together and Dea’s teasing Gwynp about his ‘scorching’ thoughts, he asks if she thinks they’ll ever make it to the new world. the conversation is interrupted by one of his pain episodes, at which point Dea tells him to take his medicine and he snaps at her. He apologizes, but then starts musing as to whether she’d love him if she could see him. He seems to be talking about his face, but he also says, even then, “How can you know me, when I don’t even know myself?”

there’s far more emphasis placed on the fact that he feels too lost, too damaged (both physically and emotionally) to be someone who anyone could truly love. the way Gwynplaine speaks, he seems to believe that, until he finds out who he was before this happened to him, who he is now is something of a placeholder, not a real, whole person. he feels that his ‘true’ self is in the past, and that he can have “no peace, no healing” until that past is known. Dea is supportive of this, and speaks up for him to Ursus about the importance of knowing the past, rather than Ursus’ belief in burying it.

however, in Labyrinth, it’s revealed that, for all he’s so desperate to discover his past, Gwynplaine is terrified of it. “Why in hell would I want to feel it again?” indeed. so he’s torn between feeling like he needs to know his past in order to be someone who can be loved, and wanting to run as far away from it as possible. it’s possible he’s even afraid that if Dea knew there’s part of him that’s afraid of finding the truth, that’s what would make her not want him.

when he says, “what I feel now is just as true as anything that’s hiding in my mind”, it comes across less as an acceptance that, even in the lostness and brokenness, he’s still a valid, whole person and already worthy of love, who’s free to pursue the past but isn’t dependent on it, and more as a resignation to the doubt that tells him this brokenness is all he’ll ever be.

with Josiana, it is so obvious that it’s not that she’s seen his face and loved him anyway, or understood his brokenness and loved him anyway, but rather that she wants him solely because of those things. it’s a matter of fascination and novelty to her. with her, there is no expectation of healing or the fear of the unknown that goes with it. she provides an easy out to give in, and an easy way to explain why. it’s so much easier to say, to believe, that Josiana’s the one who’s seen all he is and still wanted him, than to admit all his fears to Dea.

it’s interesting how Gwynplaine changes once he finds out the tiniest bit of information about his past. He still doesn’t know who cut his face, still doesn’t remember that night. But he immediately seems so much lighter, like he’s breathing easier. His whole demeanor changes and he’s just. Calm. Getting back to that in a minute, but i just find it relatively telling that, just to find out this small piece of who he used to be is enough to take Gwynplaine from “She wouldn’t love me if she could see” to “I should like to marry Dea”. His face is the same. If she was granted eyesight, she’d still wind up seeing his face. That much hasn’t changed, but his perception of himself has. He feels like he has a ‘real’ identity now and that that’s enough for Dea.

now i’m going to Reach a little bit, but what i find especially interesting about all this is in the fact that Dea says, “He always dreamed of palaces”, and Ursus states the belief that “Dreams are places to hide” - which makes me wonder if part of Gwynplaine’s sudden shift to wanting Dea after having fled into Josiana’s arms, is due to him considering this a sort of middle ground?

because now he knows just enough to tell him something of who he was. as mentioned earlier, he carries himself differently- lighter, more at ease. However, he still breaks at the slightest touch. He’s told he can’t marry Dea and he panics the moment Angelica and Josiana walk away. Even moreso when told that Dea’s dead. He’s got more of a thread now by which to hold himself together, and i wonder if he thought that this would be a way to tell Dea he knows who he is now, but without having to actually pursue his past and its horrors any further, or acknowledge the trauma that’s still very much a part of him? up until he breaks the bottle of crimson lethe- which he does show to be conflicted about -he seems as if, now that he knows some of the past, he’s ready to take Ursus’ advice following the rest of it.

but it’s only when Gwynplaine does face his whole past, not just the memory of it but also the pain he knows will come with not taking the crimson lethe, and then walks away from it that he and Dea actually fully affirm their love for each other outside the context of Ursus’ shows. because it’s at that point that Gwynplaine has finally reconciled both who he used to be and who he is now. He was never going to get back the life he would have had as a Lord, but that doesn’t mean he can’t have a life.

on that note, i don’t know if or how much Gwynp would realize this, but. Dea never would have had any kind of...false mental image of him as some conventionally handsome-faced person. She might not have a visual frame of reference, but she does know his face is torn up. Even if she doesn’t touch the actual wound until the end of the play. She knows that, unlike hers and Ursus’, Gwynplaine’s face is covered in bandages. She hears the story during the performances, she hears people’s reactions and the way Gwynp is called a freak and a monster when he shows his face to the crowd. She knows that there are other people in the world, with other faces, and that fact is utterly irrelevant to her.

the audiences they’ve performed for have seen the Gwynplaine who, up until the play’s events, pretended to be happy with his disfigurement. the audience they perform for within the play, the audience including Josiana, see the Gwynplaine who’s a tortured wreck of a person. Dea has lived with that Gwynplaine every single day for her entire life, and has also known the Gwynp who sits with her in quiet moments, who played and laughed with her when they children, who immediately apologizes for getting angry, who’s hurting but still kind. at the most, she might not have realized how conflicted and frightened Gwynp was until near the end, but, if anything, she’s the only one in the whole story who actually seen and loved all that he is, from the very beginning, even before he knew it himself. As far as the essence of who Gwynplaine is as a person, and where Dea stood on the matter, of the two of them Gwynplaine was the one who couldn’t see.

tl;dr “she wouldn’t love me if she could see” is the easy way out of Gwynplaine having to admit to Dea or to himself that he isn’t afraid of Dea knowing what his face is like, but rather just how broken he feels and how afraid he is that that’s all he’ll ever be.

#(( i mean i'm sure Dea knows there are other faces in the world she could be Not Seeing if she felt like it Gwynp ))#but also the whole ''would you love me if the circumstances had been different from the beginning'' is like...#...rarely a relevant or helpful question?#that's like asking if your mom would love you if she wasn't your mom #probably not! but she is so it doesn't matter #// but also make no mistake Josiana absolutely Has Rights i just do feel like she could stand to do some self-reflection #in That particular circumstance it *could* be said that even with the obvious fetishization she was doing she wasn't actively in the wrong #or at least didn't Realize that what she was doing was kind of...not great.#whereas i mean even drugged up Gwynp absolutely had to know that walking out like that would hurt Dea #i don't want to make excuses for him he definitely acted selfishly right then even if the rationale was sympathetic #( just like how Ursus /absolutely/ was /horribly wrong/ on That Night even though his motives were absolutely sympathetic too )#Gwynp did a stupid thing and i'd like to think he can do some learning and growing post-show now that he's in a healthier headspace #idk where i was going with this in the tags but like yeah even if Josiana did nothing wrong in that specific situation #she could still stand to do some introspection and growing as a person bc she do have a lil dash toxicity to her #mojo is the only character in the play who was 110% Right about Everything at All Times #tgm #the grinning man

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8requiems · 4 years

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A Webcomic Review of “Deadlove”: I think I am a Sadist now.

Intro

WHOA WHOA WHOAAAA, before you skip this part, I tweaked the process of how I review webcomics after reviewing the webcomic before this one, “Wizard of Arsenia”. The changes aren’t earth shattering, but I just wanted to put that out there.

If you don’t care. I mean, you can skip reading it. I guess it's cool. I don’t mind...not like I didn’t spend time refining it- but it's OKAY.

Before we get into this review, there are two main parts of the review:

The General Review

This route will give you a simple idea of the webcomic you are about to read. It will naturally include my personal opinions, but they will not be inconsistent to any prior or future reviews I do (in the sense that I don’t do double standards when I talk about said webcomics).

Said opinions won’t really dominate this route because I will be mainly establishing what the webcomic has to offer in each part.

Because of this, my opinions will always be presented at the end of each section.

If need be, I will refer to events that might be considered as “spoiler territory”.

I will read as far as I require in order to get a good idea of the story I am reading, so the amount of chapters I read will vary. At a baseline, I will have read at least 10 chapters.

Granted, I doubt anything too important will change how you experience later chapters since it isn’t as, lets say, a “Season Review”.

The only sections that will be fully opinion within this route is: Execution and Conclusion.

2. Beyond the Border

This route will be available if you scroll to the very bottom.

Think of this route as the “New Game+” equivalent of the review.

I will read further either because the story has me hooked, or if I want to see if my criticisms still hold true.

EXPECT TO SEE SPOILERS. ESPECIALLY IF I GAVE THE REQUIEM TRADEMARK COPYRIGHT APPROVED THUMBS UP.

Disclaimer:

If you decide to skip “The General Review” to read “Beyond the Boundary”, don’t let it affect your opinion of the work too much (if you are easily swayed). Despite how open I am to webcomics, I might have opinions that could contradict with how you might view the webcomic if YOU were to read it.

I do advise that you read “The General Review”, and with that information in mind, proceed to “Beyond the Boundary”, if you so wish.

The Description:

*Ahem*

" They say you can’t run away from your problems... and Joel just learned that the hard way. Talk about having cold feet! Joel is all set to marry Kim, his art school sweetheart, but in a moment of poor judgment he has an affair with his roommate Zoe. Hounded by the guilt, but unable to fess up to his fiancé, he decides the most responsible thing to do is... run away. As far and as fast as he can. He now finds himself selling cosmetics at a shopping mall in New Zealand. Sure, he is homesick, and everything is unfamiliar, but at least he can work through his issues in peace and quiet, right? Wrong. Read this comic to find out how Joel’s plans fall apart, and how he puts himself back together, with the help of an unexpected guest… “

Y’know, this is usually the part where I give my own synopsis of the story, at times because the description is in no way useful.

But, I have nothing to add.

I will say that when I first read “Deadlove”, I don’t believe I read the description, and I think not reading it was a welcome surprise considering that although I was expecting a “Comedy with a simplistic art style that is kind of charming”, I think I got a bit more than I bargained for.

I should also note that if it were not from my blind curiosity, and I were to judge it purely on description and the title art, I probably wouldn’t have read it.

It doesn’t do justice towards how creative the Webtoon itself presents its characters and the story it wants to portray.

But we’ll get to that in a minute. For now, let’s get a good idea of the characters we will be following.

Characters:

Joel:

(A panel in the middle of Chapter 1)

As you will quickly understand, Joel as far as life decisions go is the definition of incorrigible. Despite having many opportunities to confront his problems, or even having moments of foresight. These 5 chapters, if you are one to hate misunderstandings or easily resolvable conflicts, will be hell for the reader.

Maybe it was because I was forcing myself to read another webcomic before getting to this one, but I somehow was not personally annoyed by the way Joel was acting.

Granted, if I read this on ANY other day, I would have been seething and/cringing at the sight of this imbecile.

Which, as Creator Teo reveals in his editors notes at the end of every chapter, will be a very common theme.

(The last paragraph of Chapter 2’s Creators Note ^)

(The beginning of Chapter 3’s Creators Note ^)

I think it’s safe to say that Joel's current situation is the logical extreme of not taking responsibility for your poor decisions and refusing to confront and learn from your mistakes.

I feel like because of how his character is written, everyone is going to be on the same page, regardless of personal views on life when reading this webcomic, specifically because of how comically stupid we as the audience see Joel as.

I mean, at the very least that's how I feel…

At the same time, after reading the first chapter multiple times, I decided to set my personal biases aside just so I could be sure Joel is full of shit.

There were two parts of the Webtoon that caught my eye:

^ For this dialogue portion, the part that caught my attention was him brushing past keywords that we have likely heard before when hearing about cheating: “Love isn’t Binary”, “I thought only assholes cheat”, and “She looks hot”.

Now, I could easily be reading too much into these lines, and I probably am. But this isn’t the first time I have heard or read about someone cheating on someone they love for “X,Y, and Z”, so I decided to look up a random case to see how the cheater in that situation felt.

After reading about it, I felt myself not necessarily thinking he wasn’t an ass, but I did end up feeling bad for Joel. Not because of the lines I just showed, but for the lines in the following panel towards the end of the chapter:

In the case that I looked up, they felt miserable at the development that had come of their new relationship, despite cherishing the one they already had.

Now granted, Joel does say that he isn’t a reliable source of info for the story, but I feel as though the points where he does start deviating from truth are obvious enough to the viewer that we can differentiate it from the real truth.

At least, that’s what I believe, I tried reading back to see if there were any obvious deviations in truth but I couldn’t find any. Maybe you found some? Share what you found in the comments section down below if you have.

I think this simple meme panel that is shown at the end of chapter 1, although very simple, justifies the way I think about Joel as a character:

Execution:

When I first started reading “Deadlove” I thought the charm would come from the simplistic art style, and I wasn’t wrong about it not having charm, but it is certainly not the main appeal of the Webtoon. The way the visual and writing style compliment each other reminds me of my time reading “God of Bath”. But with “God of Bath”, that would moresoe be applied to the gag panels.

For “Deadlove”, it's every panel of every chapter.

Visual Style:

I think my favorite part of the Webtoon would have to be the way Creator Guy makes visually metaphorical jokes, and just the way he decides to show Joel’s interaction with the audience as he breaks the fourth wall.

An example of a visually metaphorical joke would be something Creator Teo actually had to point out for me. Had to do a whole double take:

( ^ A panel in the latter half of Chapter 1 )

( ^ The fourth paragraph of Chapter 2’s Creators Note )

( ^ Joel revealing his wishy washy nature to the audience in a panel towards the end of Chapter 5 )

Although there might be better examples of Joel’s audience interaction, I personally love this one. I can’t help but chuckle every time I remember it.

The Writing:

I rarely consume media that breaks the fourth wall. And even then, they would break the fourth wall for comedic effect, not for telling a story.

Then again, many stories will have a narration at the beginning where they basically guide you in the beginning portions of the story, only to return every now and then.

Joel is telling the story as he is living it. I mean, he does say the story isn’t linear, implying that this isn’t the case, but I still appreciate how the story is written nevertheless.

Conclusion:

Overall, I feel like I’ve communicated how much I love “Deadlove”, and I shouldn’t be surprised considering the talented duo of Creators Teo and Guy have experience telling simple yet fun and captivating stories, such as “The Adventures of God” and “My Dictator Boyfriend”. Both Webtoons that I love.

I already feel like I am someone that Joel is talking to, making me in some way a part of the story too, but having Creator Teo talk say reveal some insights about the Webtoon and giving some giving some thoughts about “Deadlove” shows a connection with me, the reader, that I don’t really feel in other Webtoons, even if they do Q&A’s every now and then.

That being said, I think that Teo’s quick tidbits are a consequence of the very stylized nature of the story itself.

I would suggest “Deadlove” to anyone, even if they would hate a character like Joel. Just because I feel like he is interesting enough to see him continue to make mistakes and follow his overall journey.

#webtoon #Webtoons #webtoon review #WebtoonFeatured #FeaturedWebtoon #webcomics #webcomic #Webcomic review #deadlove #GodofBath #God of Bath #Naver #NaverWebtoon #Naver Webtoon

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very-grownup · 4 years

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THE YEAR IS 2020 AND I WATCHED NEON GENESIS EVANGELION FOR THE FIRST TIME, PART 6

Episode 17.

A military tribunal grills Misato and gives her shit for not presenting Shinji for grilling and/or grilling him herself. There are a lot of shots of silhouettes in isolation and heavily shadowed faces obscuring expression in this episode. Lots of NERV talk about branches and the Dead Sea scrolls and attempting to intuit the intentions of Angels.

The rest of Episode 17 and Episode 18 behind the cut.

There are apparently two more EVAs out there in the US and Germany but actually only one more because one of the other two just fucking disappeared with like everything including the people all around it?

There's also ... another teen with the power to pilot the giant upsetting robots and it is both a shock and concern when various people find out who it is although we the audience do not find out who it is (it is probably Shinji's classmate with the little sister who got hurt).

There's just a lot of stuff that seems to be setting up things for the next episode with no resolution so there's not much to report on. Kaji isn't dead. Rei misses some school. That one girl in class who isn't an EVA pilot is trying badly to express interest in dude with sister.

Shinji cleans Rei's shitty garbage apartment, Rei blushes and has some kind of quiet Rei crisis about thanking him after he's gone and also about Shinji's awful father because she still has his broken glasses and they're like the only non-utilitarian thing she owns.

There's no angel attack or anything particularly weird or cool or gross. Just a big sense of building to something. Ritsuko has a coffee mug with cats on it that says CAT CAT CAT CAT and that's pretty great. This concludes my report on Episode 17 of Neon Genesis Evangelion.

Episode 18.

It culminates in maybe 10 solid minutes of me with my hands over my mouth in absolute horror, so. Let's go.

After all the setup of last week's episode with the mysteriously disappeared EVA and the EVA coming from America for a new pilot who is clearly Tohji whose sister got hospitalized because of EVA fight fallout, things open with Americans talking American! They're transporting the American EVA by air on I don't know bungee cords or something and this thing is such obviously colour-coded bad news. It's like, dark grey and black. Then they fly into huge ominous clouds with lightning flashes. This is fine and will be fine.

Misato's off to be involved in all the stuff that NERV needs to do for having a new EVA and even though she has a perfectly good roommate to look after Shinji and Asuka, she tells Shinji that Kaji will be babysitting them instead of Penpen. Fuckin' Kaji. Before she goes she tries to work up to telling Shinji the identity of the new EVA pilot while Shinji works up to asking her about the disappeared EVA rumour. Good job Shinji! Asking questions, even though it's scary! Misato reassures him about THEIR EVAs and safety to avoid bringing up Tohji because ... Misato's a disaster who is trying to be a responsible grown-up and sometimes knowing the right thing to do and wanting to do it isn't enough. Ritsuko gives her a hard time about this later because everyone agrees that Shinji should know Tohji is going to pilot an EVA and since Misato is the only person who said 'someone needs to look after this literal child when he isn't in the robot' she has to be the one to tell him. Because EVERY ADULT IN THIS SHOW SUCKS AND IS FAILING THE NEXT GENERATION except for Misato and she's an overworked alcoholic who gets a pity pass.

All the kids are tense and weird because they know Tohji is going to be piloting an EVA or want to pilot an Eva themselves or are trying to confess to Tohji or they're Shinji. (Asuka almost manages to relate to someone like a normal teen so good job, Asuka.) Rei has a feeling. Lots of opportunity for /literally anyone else/ to tell Shinji that Tohji's the new pilot at multiple opportunities but no one does.

Instead, Shinji tries to have a nighttime man-to-man conversation with Kaji. Fuckin' Kaji. Shinji wants to know what Kaji thinks of his father. Kaji mocks him for this being the only way Shinji can think of to get to know his horrible father, then is flippant about how actually you can never really know another person. But you know who you can really never know?

WOMEN.

Fuckin' Kaji.

So the next day Tohji isn't in class because he's getting EVA orientation which at NERV means he gets in the EVA and they turn it on and see what happens and hey, guess what, the ominous dark EVA almost immediately becomes a BAD TIME. It opens the mouth it has to scream and also it has jagged red teeth in its horrible unnecessary mouth and then a part cracks or something and it's like a huge gooey organic pulsing thing on the EVA and when they try to eject the pilot plug it becomes blocked with goo tendrils.

It's been whole episodes since I last commented on how upsetting I found the design of these giant robots but hey, the giant robot is upsetting and I hate how it has teeth and screaming and all the goo even if the goo is possibly not part of the design since it's also an Angel?

THEN THE GIANT ROBOT GOES MORE BERSERK AND FUCKING BLOWS UP THE ORIENTATION TEST SITE OR SOMETHING AND IS ON THE RUN and there's a weird, creepy quality to how the EVAs are animated when they move, a hugeness of arm movement that is very unrobotic, but moreso with this EVA. It's good and cool but also I hate it.

The kids get called in and this is around when I covered my mouth and just kept getting increasingly upset because Shinji's dad is in charge due to Misato maybe being blown up and Shinji's dad wants the kids to eliminate the rogue EVA with Tohji inside. Rei knows, Asuka knows. Shinji still doesn't know but he knows /a/ kid is in there and that is enough to make him unhappy and reluctant with his father's 'destroy the rampaging robot' orders. But Asuka gets taken out fast. Then it basically teleports onto Rei and starts dripping more awful goop. There's lots of gross veiny pulsing in this episode, very Akira, I hate it, and the goop from Tohji's evil EVA melts and infects the hand of Rei's Eva and I guess it's Angel goop that lets the Angel control the EVA? So the infection can't get further than the EVA hand. And under the brave leadership of Commander Ikari the obvious solution is just /fuck that whole limb/ without desynching Rei from her EVA so hey why not just a teenage girl screaming as she feels like her entire arm is ripped off, cool cool cool.

So now it's down to Shinji who still doesn't want to destroy this giant robot with a child in it and even if his heart was in it, this thing is fucking intense. ALSO IT'S STRETCH ARMSTRONG? Like, it goes from shambling to shooting its arms out insanely long to choke Shinji's EVA. It's choking Shinji's EVA so hard that bruise marks are showing up on Shinji's throat. Meanwhile, his father is telling him to stop being a useless child who is being choked to death by a giant robot and do the child murder like I'm ordering you to, child I hate. Shinji won't and also Shinji can't because he is being choked to death.

At NERV it is suggested to Commander Ikari maybe they should lower the synch on Shinji's robot so he can't be choked to death /through a robot/ and for reasons known only to shitty dads, that's not an option. But what is an option is just shifting control from Shinji to the AI control and if AI control is an option maybe just work on doing that instead of this whole child soldier thing but no one at NERV can hear me over the sound of parental neglect.

Everything goes red when the dummy AI is implemented and fuck the colour work in this series is /so good/ and Shinji just has to sit and feel everything as his robot proceeds to destroy Tohji's robot. Ripping limbs, punching until everything is cracking and blood is everywhere. Don't worry, America made sure their giant robot was also full of red, red, red blood. Vast quantities of blood. In the setting sun a river looks like blood. There is blood weighing down a traffic light in an amazing shot. It's awful. Shinji doesn't know it's Tohji, but we do. The robot that is so clearly an extension of Shinji's body even if he can't control it removes the pilot plug from the grisly wreckage of Tohji's robot and it crushes the plug, the orange liquid spurting out and he /still doesn't know/.

Commander Ikari smiles.

Shinji's father has been a bad father throughout, sometimes in ways that really, distressingly resonate, in really lowkey, banal 'bad dad' ways, but here he's just a monster. He can see his son, hear him, but he doesn't care. It doesn't penetrate.

After everything, Shinji is just numb in the robot, still and shocked, unable to grapple with this overwhelming sense of having just killed someone, horribly and violently and brutally. It's bad and you feel bad and I started crying and still Shinji /doesn't know/.

Then cleanup and ambulances arrive and out of the giant robot wreckage they pull the somehow still alive Tohji and then Shinji /does/ know, he sees Tohji's battered and beaten body, and Shinji starts screaming because somehow it's worse. This concludes my report on Episode 18 of Neon Genesis Evangelion.

#neon genesis evangelion report #fuckin' kaji

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bigskydreaming · 4 years

Text

The Regents’ Deck

Bit of a worldbuilding extra for my fic By Lost Ways....nothing you need to know to understand the fic and its all information that unfolds over the first ten chapters anyway, so no real plot spoilers here. But I do love me some worldbuilding and I know other people do too, so figured some people might like to have it laid out here.

So this is the official Regents’ Deck talked about in that fic, with the exception of the Joker card of course. I’ve filled in the official Regent titles that have been revealed thus far in the prologue, but the other bit is the part that doesn’t really come up in active discussion until certain characters like Bruce and Roy enter the picture with a more scientific approach to things.

Because while the Regents embody and represent symbolic and metaphysical forces through their magic.....they also all each represent and embody a physical force as well. And this is where the magic system of this world really comes in: the use of feathers (the link to the divine energy of Mother Sky in this world, other than the Regents themselves) to channel and manipulate various physical forces.

Of course, there’s a bit more to it than just waving a bunch of feathers around, but the feathers are always a necessary ingredient, and the core key to unlocking various powers or spells. Swan feathers create anti-gravity effects while ostrich feathers ground things, tanager feathers amplify heat while tern feathers drain it away, etc.

Which is why a particularly ingenious archer, like say, Roy Harper, can be a total bad-ass in this world, even moreso than usual. After all, Roy was known for being the one who created most of his own weapons and trick arrows in the main DC Earth, and when you apply that ingenuity to a feather-based magic system via say, the fletchings on arrows......you get a whole lot of fun stuff, like lightning arrows and frost arrows that act like liquid nitrogen, silencer arrows and arrows that break apart the bonds holding things together.

BUT.

The real trick, for those who have devoted significant parts of their lives to unlocking the secrets of their world’s magic, like Roy.....comes from when you figure out how to COMBINE certain types of feathers....and the physical forces they represent....to get combo effects.

And that’s how you end up with an archer like Roy who has arrows that have a strange combination of feathers that don’t make sense to most other people at first glance.....but let him do things like fire arrows around corners, and arrows that pass through walls intangibly until they reach their target, or seemingly wipe something entirely out of existence.

So yeah. I had a lot of fun writing Roy in this, lol, due to this particular magic system.

And of course, the Regents are the exceptions to this, as they don’t use feathers to channel their abilities.....as they are in essence walking nuclear reactors tapped directly into the forces they represent, for as long as they’re Regent. Thus using the various magics associated with their Regency is as simple as thinking for them - BUT the flip side is that they can’t use or tap into the power of any other Regencies, even via feathers.

(There are a couple other exceptions to this magic system too, in the sense of characters who use magic that’s completely outside the system....but that’s because the planet Sky is not the only world created in this cosmos, and certain visitors from other worlds still show up, with powers/magic stemming from the worlds of their birth. For instance, Kory’s powers here are fueled by what she calls soulfire, and are tied to the goddess figure of her homeworld, and Atlanteans live beneath the sea in a giant caldera in one of the uppermost mountain ranges in the world....but originally came from another world, a water world, and thus Garth uses a totally different magic system as well.)

But anyway, this is the Regents’ Deck and the physical forces each card corresponds to, just if anyone wants to refer back to it when reading the fic.......although, just FYI, a key part of the story involves the fact that the modern day characters in the fic have some incorrect ideas about the Deck and the Regents. For instance, below is the order the Deck is usually ordered in when not shuffled for a reading.....people think this is the order the Regents are supposed to go in, to make sense with the scientific discoveries they’ve made over the centuries, and how they correspond to the various Regents.

There’s just a couple problems with this order.....as in things that break the mold/don’t make sense according to the in-universe understanding of it.

The big one is the Mockingbird.....the Mockingbird Regent pretty clearly breaks the pattern and always has, as far as anyone knows. It doesn’t seem to fit anywhere...its placed where it is, just because that’s kinda what people have decided is their best guess for it, based on the powers it bestows and unlocks via mockingbird feathers.....but the thing is, as is stated outright in her title and description itself.....the Mockingbird Regent is never as she seems....and never has been. People have had a totally incorrect understanding of her and the forces she embodies pretty much since day one....but whether or not that’s by design, and if so, by whose.....*no spoilers*

(I will say though that the Mockingbird Regent is Stephanie Brown, and that’s not really a spoiler, so much as a reassurance that I haven’t forgotten about her - or Duke - just because I don’t have them listed as Robins in the summary).

There’s also some minor confusion/incorrect assumptions about the Raven and Ibis Regents and their roles and what they represent/embody, but that’s not hugely crucial to the story.

The other big thing though, is that a couple of characters like Roy and Bruce, have figured out through their various experiments with magic and their scientific studies of it.....there’s something else about the Deck that doesn’t make sense. Two of the cards, in their expert opinions....are missing their true opposite numbers. Something that can only be explained in their minds by the notion that there might be two cards - and thus two whole Regents - that are missing from the Deck.

How that could possibly happen and what it means IS going to be important to the story however...and it suggests that there’s a couple more types of feathers out there with their own unique magical properties just waiting to be discovered. Or rediscovered as the case may be.

(They’re actually not quite right. There are actually THREE Regents and their corresponding cards that are missing from the Deck. I mention this only because I’m actually reeeeeally interested in seeing if anyone can figure out from this what they are - as in, what forces they’re meant to represent/which cards are missing their true opposites. I know the world so well in my own head that I just honestly have no idea how obvious or not it is, so I’m genuinely curious. I think one should be fairly obvious, but the other two, maybe not).

Anyway, so here’s the Regents’ Deck, as its currently understood in-universe, with the above-mentioned ‘mistakes’.

Sparrow - Space (reduction) Seagull - Space (propagation) Hummingbird - Time (reduction) Crane - Time (propagation)

Magpie - Quantity (reduction) Kingfisher - Quantity (propagation) Robin - Regent of Change and New Beginnings - Entropy (reduction) Vulture - Entropy (propagation)

Eagle - Weak Nuclear Force (reduction) Shrike - Regent of Bindings & Battle - Strong Nuclear Force (propagation) Swan - Gravity (reduction) Ostrich - Gravity (propagation)

Hawk - Electromagnetism (reduction) Dove - Electromagnetism (propagation) Tern - Regent of Winter and Woes - Thermodynamics (reduction) Tanager - Thermodynamics (propagation)

Cardinal - Light (propagation) Mockingbird - Regent of Lies and Tall Tales Owl - Regent of Secrets and Silence - Sound (reduction) Canary - Regent of Speech and Song - Sound (propagation)

Crow - Regent of Death and Deception - Consciousness (reduction) Rook - Consciousness (propagation) Raven - Regent of Midnight and Mysteries - Knowledge (reduction) Ibis - Knowledge (propagation)

#by lost ways

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