#nevermoor theory

[wundrousarts]

The Wintersea Republic and the Free State: Different Age lengths?

I was going to save this until my Hollowpox reread post, but I’ve hit a snag in my eternal reread and now I don’t know when I’ll share that. This is something I noticed that I didn’t fully realize before. This is specifically about post-Massacre Ages. Pre-Massacre stuff is still currently a Wild West of unknowns.

The Wintersea Republic seems to have consistently had 10-12 year Ages since it was formed. This lines up with the amount of Ages it has had and how long it’s been around for. This consistency is also how Squall establishes the “curse.”

I had always assumed that Ages were consistent among the Realm, so that Nevermoor has also been experiencing these same Age lengths for the same amount of time. This is because at the beginning of the first book we see that their Morningtides align. This is where my theory about Wundersmith deaths or Wunder irregularities causing Eventides at the end of years comes from, because it seems likely that that’s what triggered this Eventide and likely all the ones related to the “curse”.

However, in ch2 of Hollowpox, Jupiter says the following:

“Golders Night,” Holliday echoed, and her expression grew thoughtful. She tapped a finger against her mouth. “There’s a thought… what’s it been, twelve years since the last one?” “Fourteen, I believe,” said Jupiter. “Spring of Seventeen in the Age of Poets. ”

So, 14 years ago, Nevermoor was in the midst of an Age that was at least 17 years long? Now I'm less sure what triggers Eventides/new Ages, especially in the Free State...

I find it unlikely that the Republic also experienced this same 17 year Age, as the fairly consistent Ages seems to be how Squall establishes the Eventide Curse... HOWEVER..... Morrigan turns 13 in Hollowpox... so this would have been the Age before her, and it might've actually been more like 18 (or 19? I'm bad at math) years long? Maybe Squall did something new the Age before Mog, like tried to take on an apprentice or two before her, or carry out some plan (or study?) with the other cursed children. The abnormally long Age could be balanced out by some of the earlier Ages in the lifespan of the Wintersea Republic being considerably short in comparison.

I would love to hear anyone's own thoughts on this! It's something I realized and now am trying to figure out how it fits with everything because I never really thought about it before.

[givemogahug]

Ok, so you know how in the sing that mog sings to call wonder it mentions a child born on eventide as "daughter of night", obviously talking about morrigan.

It also mentions a "son of the morning" referring to a child born on morningtide. What if there is a boy somewhere in the world who was born on morningtide.

And he also has 'powers' of somesort like mog but not the exact same.

Not sure just a theory

[purrassicjet]

Jupiter says "I know Baz" when Morrigan asks him why he thinks Baz announced Morrigan's secret, and has a dark expression when he says this.

We all know Baz is a fucking asshole and one of the most, if not the most, hate able character, so it isn't out of the woods for Jupiter to expect him to be horrible like this, but this line and Jupiter's dark expression makes it seem like he's been personally victimised by Baz, and in a situation similar to the one Morrigan is in. It couldn't have been related to his knack, he showed that off at the show trial there's no way its a secret, but there had to be something that Baz revealed without Jupiter's consent.

[tillywunderwing]

C&D and the early Eventide

So this was a theory bouncing around in the discord a while back, but I’ve been thinking about it lately and decided to bring it to tumblr as a talking point.

It’s been well established in canon that the Eventide we saw happened earlier than it should have - a year exactly, iirc. We don’t know enough about what determines the length of the Ages to say why or how, but I’m going to say with confidence that it wasn’t natural. It’s very likely that Eventide came early because it was in some way forced.

(I say this because of the fringe chronologists or whatever they were called - the fact that there’s people specialised in detecting when Eventide occurs definitely implies some natural process behind it, but the fact that some of them predicted the early Eventide and weren’t believed suggests foul play to me.)

The probably more obvious explanation is that Squall caused it. He’d certainly be the type to have the power to - like I said, we don’t know enough about why or how the Ages change for me to say that with certainty but, y’know, he’s been the only Wundersmith around for a hundred odd years, so anything probably goes. The likely explanation is that he brought Eventide early because he knew Jupiter was going to come and take Morrigan, and Squall wanted to beat him to the punch.

But I kind of feel like there could be more to it than that! Namely - as outlined in the title of this post - what if the early coming of Eventide was orchestrated as a C&D event by Jupiter, so he could smuggle Morrigan out of Jackalfax unnoticed?

It’s that thing again of not knowing enough about the process behind the Eventides to say if this is feasible, especially presuming he did it alone. But even if he couldn’t, maybe he’d predicted that Squall was going to bring Eventide early, and played that to his advantage. People were going to notice a giant mechanical spider waltzing through an otherwise dreary little dump of a town, but Jupiter had learned enough from his experience with C&D to know that if they were sufficiently distracted - like with, say, an unexpected New Age and all the accompanying fanfare - they were less likely to ask complicating questions.

I raise you the fringe chronologists again. They’d been theorising an early Eventide for a while; we know that it wasn’t a day-of decision, that whoever caused it had planned it far enough in advance that select experts were finding breadcrumbs on it before the big catalyst. Assuming Squall did it, it’s possible he knew in advance that Jupiter was planning to come and get Morrigan - and it’s also very possible that Jupiter was aware of that, or even trying to ensure that Squall knew of his plans. Because Jupiter wanted to guarantee that nobody would be paying attention when he took Morrigan away.

The thing is, as much as I love Jovey boy, and as insanely multi-faceted as his skill set is, I don’t think he could have genuinely outgunned The Wundersmith Ezra Squall if he hadn’t been expecting the early Eventide. Whether he intended for it to happen, Jupiter would had to have been absolutely certain that Eventide was coming early, because quite honestly, I think Squall would have won otherwise. If the Wundersmith had had as much of the element of surprise as Jupiter might have led Morrigan to believe, I feel we would be reading a very different set of novels.

I just think that the idea of Jupiter having had a hand in it is fascinating. The straightforward answer that Squall did it feels too basic for a series that has demonstrated really brilliant foreshadowing in even otherwise mundane moments. If anything turns out to be deeper than its surface, I feel like it has to be this.

Something else to consider in the possibility that Squall WASN’T responsible for the early Eventide is this:

Disregarding their respective competitors, Squall didn’t need Eventide to come early. Jupiter did.

Squall could have gone and gotten Morrigan whenever he chose. In fact, we can assume that was already in the process of happening, when he gave her a letter on Bid Day. In a normal timeline, he could have returned to that, and acquired her as his apprentice through whatever means he liked, conventional or not. But most importantly, he could have done that literally whenever, because he wasn’t on a time constraint.

But Jupiter was. He needed to enrol Morrigan in the Wundrous Society Trials before she was too old, so that he’d be able to grant her safety and protection in Nevermoor. He had a cut-off date for that - he didn’t have the freedom Squall had regarding when he tried to bring Morrigan over.

If we’re ignoring each of their need to get to her before the other did, then the fact of it probably is that Jupiter would have needed an early Eventide way more than Squall did. It was a distraction that kept people from stopping him taking Morrigan, for one thing, and it was a very convenient excuse for why she was gone, for another - everyone could simply presume she’d died. Whereas with Squall, he wouldn’t have technically needed Eventide to come early to get her under his thumb, as I said earlier with his attempt to recruit her on Bid Day. Heck, if he’d wanted to, he probably could have sent the Hunt on any given day, and just concealed it from everyone but Morrigan - surely that’s within his abilities. But for Jupiter’s plan to work, he needed Eventide as a distraction.

The D in C&D. You can’t say he never paid attention in his classes.

I know there’s probably more to this that I haven’t explored, or alternate explanations I didn’t consider. Whether any of it holds water or not is up in the air! I just think it’s interesting to think about and could be a fun point of discussion. If anyone has thoughts to add, please do so!

[nevermoorcentral]

okay wait but I just thought of this. do u think ezra squall had to get a safeguard pact??

[captainbookamir]

Late night ponderings so I might be forgetting some evidence, but I have two theories about Ezra Squall.

1) He's from the Wintersea Republic (common enough theory, I think).

2) He's related to Morrigan.

For the first I think there are plenty of hints - his very intense love of Nevermoor suggests that being there is not a given to him, he knows the song Morrigan uses to call wunder, the creation of the gossamer line (I am remembering that correctly, right?).

I haven't read Hollowpox for a year so I don't remember, but I don't think any of the other Wundersmiths have black eyes? Attention is called repeatedly to Morrigan's eyes in the first book and it's usually mentioned in descriptions of Ezra Squall as well. But another that struck me is his song to call wunder. "Little crowling, little crowling with button black eyes". When I hear those words they also sound like they could apply to Morrigan! Was Ezra actually a Crow, or related to the Crow family?

Anyway I'm also really hoping we learn more about Morrigan's mother in Silverborn and if anyone has interesting theories about her, please tell me!

[soulsofthedead]

so i have read all of the nevermoor books a good 6 times in the last year or so( yes its my comfort series shush-), and i desperately neeed y'alls theories on what the safeguard pact does? why do they all seem so weird about using it? other nevermoor theories in general is welcome btwww- i love this series so much

[bowtiesarecool11]

My theory that Jupiter North is, in fact, the Doctor.

The target audience for this post is so unbelievably small, and if you're not in both fandoms, this will probably just be meaningless to you. If you are in both fandoms....hello!! : )

He has an unconventional, slightly out of date mode of transport which he loves (the arachnipod)

He travels a lot and is rarely around

He takes in people who are sort of left behind by society (Morrigan, Jack, Frank, Fen...etc)

His home can change its interior

He has an eccentric dress sense

He likes to 'explain later'

His favourite mode of operation is to be mysterious and not tell people important details of his plans

He runs everywhere. Slowing down is 'not in his repertoire'

He's ginger

That is all : )

[winwin17]

Listen up, here's my plan. So you know how Jupiter discovered "seventeen previously undocumented realms"? Yeah, apparently no one's claiming those realms, so let's take one over and turn it into a safe relocation spot for cursed children, where they can legally find new homes.

[wundrousarts]

Theory: lots of folks suggest that the Deucalion is a Wundrous Act like the Cascade Towers and stuff.

Do you think that the Elders saw Jupiter take on the project and just cringed and were like, “we can’t stop him unless we tell him about how much Wundersmith history we buried…… ughhhh” lol

[yoursassybookwormfriend]

Hollowpox Chapter 31 Analysis

@potionwitchmaya-15 got me thinking about chapter 34, in which there’s this interaction between Morrigan and Squall:

“Why can’t you just stop them if they’re such a problem? I don’t understand!”

“DO YOU THINK I HAVEN’T---”

Squall admits that he TRIED to stop Wintersea and her party. He tried and FAILED. Squall, who can make a disease and transform a house with the flick of a wrist! Squall, who calls himself a GOD! Yet he can’t beat Maud Lowry. He regularly claims that he is second only to her power. Not her party, her. 

Curious, I went back to Chapter 31: Call Me Mog, where Morrigan talks to Wintersea. This chapter is fascinating already, but I thought I’d take a closer look at it with the power of hindsight, and wow, this chapter is full of things to analyze.

I think it’s clear, looking back, just how utterly manipulative Maud is from the beginning. She knows exactly who Morrigan is, how she got there, and what she went there for from the very start, but she plays along with Morrigan’s lies for a while until Morrigan’s hands pass through her wig. 

She also paints the Hollowpox as “Awful business,” and “a terrible and dangerous disease,” when, if we trust Squall (and on this, I do), she was the one who asked him to make it in the first place, as an extermination of the Republic’s wunimals. 

She also denies that the Hollowpox came from the Republic, saying, “Why would you believe such a thing?” and “All borders between the Republic and the Free State are closed. How could this disease have entered one from the other?” Clearly, she is lying about not knowing this, as Squall and the spy vessel from Chapter 18 tell us. Yet even without those facts, Maud herself revealed that she knew that Morrigan escaped to the Free State. Claiming she believes the borders are fully closed is one of the most blatant lies she tells, and even Morrigan can see that it’s a trap.

But specifically, the part that was most interesting about this chapter was this moment on page 441: 

        “But they’re your party,” Morrigan pointed out. “Aren’t you the one with the power?” 

        Maud stiffened slightly and cast her a wary, calculating look. 

        Morrigan rushed on, worried she’d said something rude. “I just mean...well, you’re the president, after all. Shouldn’t they do what you say?”

        “You’d think so, wouldn’t you?” said Maud, and the wary look melted away with a perplexed chuckle. 

This part in the book had always confused me before. Why was Maud so caught off-guard by what Morrigan had said? What did she think Mog was implying? 

Now I think I know: POWER. 

In Hollowpox Chapter 34, Squall calls President Wintersea the most powerful person in the realm. Even in Nevermoor, Squall calls himself the second-most powerful. Maud stiffens after Morrigan calls her “the one with the power”. By Maud’s reaction, I think it’s safe to say that she didn’t think that Morrigan knew of this “power”, and that this “power” is what Squall keeps alluding to. 

Somehow, Wintersea has this secret power that makes her more powerful than a fully realized Wundersmith, and she wasn’t happy when she thought that Morrigan knew about it. What is this power? Who, other than Squall, knows about it? How can it beat someone who calls himself a god? 

What are you hiding, Maud Lowry? 

Please feel free to add your thoughts on Maud and Ch. 31!

[purrassicjet]

Here I am with the next Nocturne Song analysis! This time, I will be doing Squall’s song. I’ll be going line by line and explaining what I think the song implies.

“Little Crowling, Little Crowling, with button black eyes,”

Now, many people think that this line refers to Morrigan. She’s been described with black eyes, and her last name is literally crow, BUT in the context of the rest of the song, I think this refers to Squall. I will explain more in the coming lyrics.

“Swoops down into the meadow, where the rabbits all hide.”

I think this line refers to the “meadow” as an alternate name for Nevermoor. Nevermoor is like an expansive and welcoming meadow, especially to Morrigan, and that’s where all the “rabbits” (citizens of Nevermoor) hide from Squall.

“Little Rabbit, Little Rabbit, stay by mother’s side”

Now we come to where I think it talks about Morrigan. Morrigan is the little rabbit who feels Squall, the Crowling, with Jupiter (the mother in this context). The song warns her to stay near Jupiter, somebody who can protect her.

“Or the Crowling, Little Crowling, will peck out your eyes.”

This line doesn’t refer exactly to Squall pecking Morrigan’s eyes out, but could talk about the manipulation she’s going to face at his hands. “Pecking out” her eyes could be making her blind to the good things she has in her life, and turning her more towards him, instead of Jupiter, the mother, who will protect her. Morrigan is the little rabbit, and she’s playing right into Squall’s hands and setting herself up to be blindsighted by him.

Additions are welcome!

[worldsunlikemyown]

What if Morrigan's Wundersmith training doesn't take place in the Unnamed Realm at all?

If his words are to be believed, Squall created the Gossamer Line (pretty likely). Which means he is good at making revolutionary things, and probably a pioneer in inter-realm exploration. I think there are two ways it could go:

Squall could make a space where time moves more slowly - like a pocket realm or something. So Mog might wake up at midnight, go to this place and have a six-hour lesson, but only two hours have passed in Nevermoor, which would be less suspicious and better for her sleep schedule.

So you know how Jess said that we're going to have many new characters in Silverborn? It might be because Morrigan will do her lessons in a different realm. It's practical and makes lessons easier because both she and Squall will be able to be there physically, and Mog wouldn't feel like she was in too much danger because it's pretty clear to her that Squall doesn't want to kill her at present. And they would have to deal with all kinds of different people and introduce new characters that way. But going and coming from realms would be difficult, and barring changed speeds of time, much likelier to disrupt Mog's sleep schedule, and that could be used as a clue for Jupiter to find out about the apprenticeship (he's an inter-realm explorer, so he also knows what a gate to another realm looks like).

I can't decide which one is more likely, because I like the second one more for plot, but the first one is more convenient in-universe and feels like something Ezra might think of - subtle and convenient, least likely to give it all away.

Anyone have other theories about this?

[necromancers-incorporated]

Silverborn theories/hopes:

Mog's mum! I have a gut feeling she is connected to Ezra somehow but I have no idea how yet

I really want to see more of the rest of the unit, like the way we had all the shenanigans in Wundersmith and look into their dynamics more (*coughcough* archtthorne *coughcough*)

Ezra backstory! Tell me what happened please for the love of God what made him change. I don't want him redeeming I just want the motives

More of the rest of the Deucalion staff and the history of the Deucalion

Theory that Ezra created the Deucalion based solely off of that one conversation right at the beginning of the first book

Need a Cadence backstory NOW

More of Marina and Ros pls they are so cute

MORE ROOK

Want to know the marital status of the other Misstresses like did they choose those titles or like what is going on there

All for now I'm so excited for the book

[nevermoorcentral]

Theory I want to bring back: being a wundersmith isn’t solely to do with being born on eventide. You also had to be born in the Republic. How was Ezra Squall supposedly killing off all the children in the world who were born on a certain night? And killing them all on that same night? Sure he could get other people to do his dirty work, but that would be difficult, especially in Nevermoor where he can’t enter.

And if there were wundersmiths being born elsewhere, wouldn’t they have similar superstitions to there republic? But in Nevermoor, there’s no discussion of Eventide being a dangerous birthday. They never mention it.

And also, if there were only nine new wundersmiths being born every year, that would hardly work out around the world. There’s no way this one day there’s only nine children born all around the world. But possibly in the republic, that could be true? Especially considering their superstition, they might make a concerted effort to avoid having babies at that time of year.

This could mean that the republic used to be Wundrous. Hell, maybe nevermoor was part of it but they broke away when things started to change. But maybe they lost the Wundrous centre of their world. And now? The only Wundrous happenings are on eventide, and babies born on that night have a very special skill.

[raspberry-gloaming]

I very much doubt there's much chance of this, but is there anyone out there who is a fan of both Doctor Who (and especially/possibly the Gallifrey audios) and the Nevermoor series? As I have many au thoughts but no-one to share/discuss them with.

(if you are please message me)