onaperduamedee · 2 years ago
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Hello! I watched the wot show and liked it but I’ve been really curious about all the complaints that people made about how the plots don’t fit with what happens later on in the books. My assumption is that it’s not that major a thing but is just the critique people latched onto and repeat. But as you’re now a way through the series and I appreciate the thought you put in, would you say this might be a problem or is it overblown that some later plots can’t be salvaged already? Is part of it true
Hello, that's a really interesting question!
I’m trying to keep this vaguely spoiler-free with the exception of elements from The Eye of the World and The Great Hunt covered on the show, but this still got long.
I do think it is overblown, but I also liked the changes made, so I might not be the best judge here. I'm trying to approach your question from the angle of what is there and how it affects the story.
From where I stand in my reading, the majority of the changes in the show can be categorized in:
moving forward some arcs (dagger theft, visit to Tar Valon),
new material introducing important groups and dynamics early (Aes Sedai, warders),
plainly streamlining those THICK books (cutting the 14578 villages Mat and Rand visit, merging certain elements)
To me, those changes will serve the story going forward, both in terms of pacing and clarity, and do not affect the core of later arcs. The plot points still happen, just differently or later. The complaints about some changes are honestly hair-splitting, like making the girls ta'veren or Lan not being stony enough: it’s POV adjustment, not plot-damaging.
Some important discarded encounters will obviously come up later when there is more time. I get the frustration of fans who wanted to see those relationships play out now instead of new material (Nynaeve/Moiraine dance battle, how I mourn you), but I disagree shifting them around altered the story. The Eye of The World consists of A Lot of traveling and encounters, with a clear focus on Rand, despite the established five main characters. I think these changes allowed the show to lay the groundwork more evenly, particularly for the girls. 
Now, the biggest change that could affect storylines soon is Moiraine being cut from the source. It could change her arc significantly, short and long-term, but I don't see it as a major hurdle since Moiraine gets a meatier arc that is thematically relevant to book 2. I have qualms about how it could make later arcs redundant, but the execution will do a lot of work here. Mirroring is good in a narrative. 
Another aspect is Siuan/Moiraine potentially affecting their respective story. It may require some reshuffling/cutting characters, which will happen anyway with so many side characters gallivanting. But I'd absolutely argue their love life is not the most important element on their gripping journey in the books. Also, although I loathe admitting it, being together now does not necessarily entail being together always: there's wiggle room here, even if I don't want it.
Giving Perrin a wife only to kill her is dumb, but does not really change his later arc, come on. It will certainly add a certain weight to the story, like with Siuan and Moiraine.
Overall, I find the criticism all the more unfair that fans admit the first book is not representative of the rest of the series (it’s mainly Lord of the Rings references with more innkeepers and jugglers). To me, there's a fair margin of improvement in the books, pace-wise and story-wise. If fans come from the books thinking not one line should be rewritten, of course they're not going to enjoy the show doing away with dated or slower elements. I do. Ultimately, we don’t know how the story will be told: even if certain plots seem barred to them now, it may not be always so.
I hope I answered your question and I profoundly thank you for asking it because I could talk about these books/this show for hours.
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captain-krow-drozdov · 3 months ago
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Danny Is An Alternate Version Of Ra's Al Ghul And Flash Already Called Dibs On Adopting Him
Danny In All His Sleep Deprived Slightly Scuffed Up From A Fight Glory Is On His Way To Clockworks Tower To Hopefully Get A Nap And Maybe Some Homework Done When A Natural Portal Opens Up In Front Of Him And Proceeds To Unceremoniously Drop Him In The DC Verse Just Outside Of Central City Before Promptly Closing Leaving A Tired Danny Behind In A Run Down Abandoned Parking Lot.
It's Times Like This When Danny Regrets Putting Off Learning How To Make His Own Portals, Cause Now He Is Very Much Stuck For The Foreseeable Future And He Has No Idea Where Or When He Is. Luckily For Him However Central City Isn't Too Far Away, Unlucky For Him However Is That Once In The City He Realizes This Isn't His Dimension. He's Pretty Sure He'd Remember Something Called The Justice League.
So What Do You Do When Supernatural Bullshit Fails You? You Fall Back On Your Mad Scientist Roots And You Make A Portal Gun. So That's Exactly What Danny Plans To Do.
Unfortunately Staying Alive And Building Questionably Safe Portal Technology Requires Money And Supplies, So He Ends Up Wandering From City To City Doing Odd Jobs/Fixing Up Busted Tech For Cash Or Unwanted Electronics For His "Operation: Get Home" Needs. This Obviously Ends In A Few Superhero Encounter Shenanigans.
Though He Always Ends Up Back Near Central City, Both On The Off Chance The Natural Portal Will Open Up Again And Because Out Of All The Superheroes That Apparently Exist In This Universe The Speedsters Are His Favorite (Red Robin Is Solidly His Second Favorite Ever Since The Gotham Vigilante Gave Him A Large Coffee Filled With Enough Caffeine To Kill A Man).
Unbeknownst To Danny However Is That Every Hero/Vigilante He Has Encountered Has Come To At Least One Of The Following Conclusions; 1. Run Away Meta Who Is In Desperate Need Of A Good Meal/Adoption Bait. 2. Possibly Red Robin/Tim Drake Clone 3. A Good Kid But Could Possibly Be A Future Rouge If Left Unsupervised. 4. Did Bats Get A New Kid And Why Is He Here?
All Flash Knows Is That He Saw The Kid First And Therefore Has Dibs. Suck It Bruce.
Fast-forward A Few Months And Danny Gets Hurt During A Rogue Attack While Trying To Help Some Civilians Get To Safety (Old Hero Habits Die Hard (Ha Die Hard) And All That Jazz) And He Nopes Out Once Everyone Is Safe And When The Paramedics Are Busy With Other People Unaware He Left A Blood Sample Behind.
One DNA Test Brought To You By Paranoid Bat Concerns Of A Possible Red Robin Clone Later And They Find Out That Dannys DNA Matches One Ra's Al Ghul.
They Now Think Danny Is An Escaped Ra's Al Ghul Clone.
Memes For The Vibes:
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#captain's posts#this has been haunting me#the flash/any of the speedsters:*exist*#danny:*can feel the speedforce on them* i like your vibe funny man#basically danny is actually an alternate version of Ra's Al Ghul and gets chucked into the dc vesrse#because natural portals are bitches hijinks ensue#and while i do love batfam adopting danny i think its very funny for flash to just yoink him while the big bad bat isn't looking#i desperately need him and tim to be besties tho specifically before they find out danny is an alternate Ra's Al Ghul#danny:*sitting in a park and tinkering with some circuitry* oh hey flash :)#flash: hey kid! great news i might be adopting a kid soon!#danny: oh really? thats cool-#flash:*holding out adoption papers and doing his best puppy eyes* its you. sign here.#danny:*vague memory of clockwork complaining about speedster pops into his mind* hmmm#danny:*deciding to be a little shit cause what else do you do when you're almost a year into being stuck in an alternate dimension* >=)#danny: sure why not? soooo full name or what?#flash:*didn't expect to get this far* uh-#i also really like danny being clockworks apprentice/time line clean upper so danny just remembers cw bitchin about the speedsters#also cause im a sucker for tim x danny...#tim:*having a crisis cause the cute meta kid he befriended/has a crush on may or may not be a vlone of Ra's Al Ghul* aaaaasaaaaaaaasaaaaaaa#dick: you okay buddy?#tim:*aggressively points at the dna match of danny to Ra's Al Ghul on the bat computer* AAAAAAAAAAAAAA#dick: Oh-#dc x dp#dp x dc#dp x dc crossover#dp x dc prompt#dpxdc
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fumifooms · 6 months ago
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I don’t like minimizing the importance and gravity of Laios and Toshiro’s fight into just being a childish squabble, even if to a degree it is framed that way, because to both of them it has a lot of personal significance and emotional weight and runs very deep to their characters… The fight isn’t nothing it’s a LOT, they made up but it’s not something easy to express and to get over for either of them which makes it all the more meaningful! I’m on both sides but there very much are sides, there’s no "they’re both having a ball, Toshiro and Laios hand in hand yay" side to the fight, that comes after
The fight with Toshiro WAS very scary to Laios, almost existentially so, but it’s moreso the "I thought I’d made a friend!!" bit and my god. My god actually
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Like it’s not "just" about oh his friend liking him less than he thought, THAT IS SO MUCH. It’s a bond he thought he had being a lie it’s all the time and moments spent together either being a lie from his perspective or marred now looking back. It’s not only being upset at Toshiro for lying but upset at himself that he’s so easy to fool, it’s being upset that there’s something so wrong with you that you can’t even tell if your "close buddy" even actually likes you or not, it’s like. Holding my head. He can’t trust his own vision of events that happened do you see. There’s always this film of distrust that it could be a lie that should be there when he interacts with people there’s always this sense of cloak and dagger to expect backstabs out of nowhere because you CAN��T see it coming you CAN’T you CAN’T there’s something about you which makes it impossible so you CAN’T-
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He’s so scared of not being able to read people. He knows it’s a weak spot he has, he’s always known. All of these bits are centered around social expectations and betrayals, the assumption that he doesn’t belong either in society or with other humans.
And Laios’ level of awareness is actually sort of complex to analyze, but it’s there, there’s how out of him and Falin he was the one sensitive to the ~aura of hatred~ he felt from the townspeople, there’s of course his nightmares whispering to him about the mocking looks, and how yeah actually he realizes that his gold stripper coworker was taking advantage of him. There’s of course the Winged Lion speech about his trauma and how he fundamentally mistrusts/dislikes humans to some deep seated degree, this distrust that he still keeps under control always. There’s how pre-canon he often wanted to suggest eating monsters but never worked up the courage to bring it up with the others. There’s how he gets across as stoic when he isn’t being enthusiastic…… We don’t know how aware and wary he is exactly in the moment but we do know he has some anxiety around social stuff, and looking back he does notice and aughh augh, the sense you have to hide yourself to not get hurt and be on your guard and shit and.
When you don’t know what to look out for and when to look out for it, the general ‘common sense’ of not always trusting people or noticing when someone’s messing with you becomes hypervigilance in social settings
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"Man they really know what you hate huh". Being socially unaware literally plagues him, he knows, he knows it so well.
It’s so quick that it’s almost hard to digest how literal and blatant Laios summoning his monster to crush all the people who’ve hurt him is. His literal go-to coping mechanism for comfort in his literal monster-induced emotionally intense nightmares, saving him by taking away the upsetting element (the humans)
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"Monsters are his coping fantasy, where they can whisk him away from humanity, all the hurt it’s caused him and its arbitrary rules" with the subtlety of a brick. Monsters are his comfort safe zone "because they kill humans" yes but no it’s because he pits them as the guardians against humans who to him are in the role of the agressors. To him they represent freedom from the shackles of what it means to be part of humanity, a fundamentally social species
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paintpanic · 1 year ago
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Calculating probability of survival... It doesn't look good.
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tritoch · 28 days ago
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in general trying to write a fully canon-compliant wol, as i conceive it, is an interesting project because the wol's life involves such a staggering amount of direct interpersonal violence it is almost beyond comprehension. the only people in the real world who did anything comparable are like, certain executioners for totalitarian states, and that's obviously a very different form of violence.
and like obviously combat in FFXIV should not in any way be taken as a 1:1 with real world violence, not least because the game repeatedly points to the idea that combat can in some sense be a joyous and glorious form of personal expression (as with ravana, susano, zenos, etc.), which doesn't really square with the reality of doing violence. but to even begin to conceive of a character who's capable of doing what the WoL does from ARR on and trying to take it somewhat seriously means basically making an extremely detached killing machine, who's fine using those skills for any rando willing to call the hit they're hiring you for a "quest".
it ends up dovetailing really nicely with the games as written, though; you start ARR being like "i am an instrument of violence directed by others :)" and not talking much or ever registering your own thoughts on anything, because who cares? you're a violence-doing machine. and then one of your friends gets mind-controlled and you gotta fight a might-makes-right fascist and you meet multiple people who think you personally are a really cool person with inherent value in their own right just by being a person and it's like, hm. maybe there are other ways to live. and that parallels really nicely with DRK in HW, and then you and alphinaud deciding that you are tired of endless sacrifices in the name of progress and you are going to save estinien, and then the WoL getting to walk into stormblood having really consciously chosen this fight rather than letting someone else choose for them.
obviously there are a lot of stories you can tell with your WoL but to me this is a big part of why my approach to it necessarily revolves primarily around violence and regret. you spend the core game and two expansions becoming a terrible angel of death and then get teleported to another world where you learn that some people literally consider you a psychopomp who escorts the dead to their final rests. then in the next expansion you meet someone who was unfortunate enough to be on the other end of things during your implacable killing machine days. THEN you accidentally cause the flower that symbolizes grief to be invented. the wol's whole life is haunted by overwhelming grief (mostly that of other people) and terrible violence (mostly their own).
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jeeaark · 1 month ago
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I mean.. GG could disguise themselves after being a mindflayer again and try again! But poor GG. Having to learn now to do normal non-mindflayer things again.
And how freaked was Emps there XD
Ha! And enact the same 'Dream Guardian' Scheme that Emps played on Greygold n' friends that caused a rollercoaster of 'to trust or not to trust' issues? Nay! Greygold would be the ever stubborn lil squid and try to show Emps that wielding the truth is a more effective ally-building tactic than disguising as trust-worthy looking folk.
....
....But on the other hand.......
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Adventuring around disguised in literal 'dream armor' would be too delightfully irresistible for Greygold. Thank goodness Greygold is proficient in bullshittery enough to explain why they suddenly have armor that only exists in dreams.
And well. At least Greygold would be able to join the 'has a big backstory secret' club within the squad.
But it's fine. Greygold would still try to strategically reveal to the team about their hrm. squid form and hope for the best reaction.
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I'm sure there were a lot of "reloads" with this truth-telling strategy.
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raisedbythetv89 · 10 months ago
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I genuinely don’t understand how people can watch the body swap episode and enjoy seeing Faith inhabit Buffy’s body and WORSE objectifying (Faith)Buffy being like “omg she’s so hot she slayed so hard I love Buffy in black leather”
Not only is SMG’s FRIGHTENING thinness even more apparent in Faith’s traditional wardrobe showcasing just how much she is practically skin and bone due to her being under immense stress and being so overworked which always just tears at my heart in so many ways but we are witnessing the WORST violation of Buffy’s body and autonomy!!!! I’m genuinely just sick the entire episode.
Bad enough she almost gets Buffy killed and finally gets her wish of (temporarily) stealing Buffy’s life which she has wanted to do since her arrival in season 3 (only to STILL not understand Buffy’s perspective until she does it again in a far less invasive way in season 7 after Buffy allowed her back into her home and she still never properly apologizes she’s like hehe turns our your life is actually pretty miserable and I don’t want it because I can’t handle the stress and constant pressure you’re under…. Oops!🙃) but unlike when Willow takes Buffy’s free will and autonomy away (where she at least still retains all the memories after the fact of everything that happened so she doesn’t have to wonder and can process them when she’s ready) Buffy has ZERO CLUE what all Faith allows to happen to her body while she’s not in it. And Faith isn’t unaware or passive about the power she holds and the things she can do to Buffy’s body in the position she’s in - she literally tells Riley, BEGS HIM - to do all of the nastiest things he’s ever wanted to do “to this body” she WANTS Riley to do things to Buffy’s body Buffy herself WOULD. NOT. ALLOW. it is one of THE MOST insidious lines in the entire series to me because not only is that an absolutely stomach churning, bone-chilling thing to say but then after the fact when angel asks what Faith did to upset Buffy so much she’s like “I slept with her boyfriend” like UMMMM WHAT??? EXCUSE ME???? That is literally the absolute LEAST of your crimes bitch be so fucking for real. This horrific violation is minimized down to oh well Buffy is just insecure about sex and especially sex in comparison to Faith like GROSS GROSSSSSSS. The entire thing is SO DISGUSTING and misogynistic AND it is part of why I genuinely do not give A FUCK about the events of seeing red as far as my love of spuffy goes because while that was absolutely the most traumatizing to watch not only was it so completely out of left field and out of character that it just doesn’t make sense in the narrative and is so obviously joss whedon coming over the loud speaker and going “women who enjoy sex with men I don’t approve of should and always will be punished” but it is the ONLY time someone hurts her in this way and PROPERLY APOLOGIZES AND MAKES THE PROPER AMENDS!!!!
So until EVERY. SINGLE. violation of Buffy’s body is treated with the same level of outcry seeing red is by all the anti-spuffys I genuinely DO NOT CARE. I DONT CARE because I’m just so done with spuffy girlies having that thrown in our faces by the morality police who are listening to the tiny white male puritanical cop in their head.
ALSO the fact that Riley not only doesn’t think ANYTHING is off about Buffy (when Faith is doing an absolutely HORRIFIC JOB of acting like Buffy) so he not only sleeps with her BUT TELLS HER HE LOVES HER FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER!??!?!?!? WHILE SHE IS LITERALLY PINNED BENEATH HIM?!?!?!?!? AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!! RILEY FINN I WILL KILL YOU IF IT IS THE LAST THING THAT I DO.
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aletterinthenameofsanity · 8 months ago
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sometimes I see David Tennant's face in Doctor Who as he monologues about time travel/immortality/the eternal loneliness and I go...that's him. that's my rotten lil guy. my wretched wreck of a dude. wreckage in humanoid form. the lonely divine corrupted by himself forgiven by himself made by himself made by his companions made by the universe. horrible and horrifying and far too human and not human enough. the worst thing to ever happen to so many (Martha, Adelaide, Astrid, everyone else who flashed through that whole montage thanks to Davros). a corrupter. a corruption. a cleansing. a man carved out of grief and love and pathos and hatred and grudges and forgiveness who can only make the worst decisions with the best, most selfish of intentions. a man who loved until he lost everything. a man, more than any other doctor, who should never be left alone, and yet he dies alone, with the shortest regeneration speech of any doctor. desperately lonely, desperately tragic, a disaster of a man who is too careless with everything and everyone around him.
And yet I care about him so much, because he is also the man who at the end of it all, after he lost everyone and everything he held dear, after he lost rose and donna and sarah jane and jack and martha and mickey left him and he was more alone than he's ever been, he does the right thing. the kind thing. he stops the time lords from descending on the earth. he once again gives up his people because he understands that the Time Lords Victorious cannot and should not ever be the way to go. he steps in and he saves wilfred mott. he lets himself become the doctor once again. he doesn't want to go, but instead of taking that one final step into godhood, he gives his next self a chance at being a better doctor than he ever could be.
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cyborg-squid · 6 months ago
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I'm reading Zwillingsturme, and while I'm only on ZT-2, something that really struck me about Arturia Giallo is that... well, she hardly seems as 'evil' as she's made out to be? by both the fandom and the Lateran state. Like I said, I'm early on and may have to revise this opinion, but still.
It's indisputable that her Arts, combined with her sort of persuasion, have led people to their deaths, but in the cases of both Kriede and Bordin... She helped give them meaning and find purpose, despite their tragic ends. Bordin is able to, one final time, stand up as a hero and save a single life in front of him, and Kriede, while doomed, is able to refute the claim that he and Ebenholz' lives were tragic, and that part of Kriede's mentality is largely thanks to both his mentors, Arturia and later Czerny. Through her actions and words, not even mainly her Arts, Arturia is able to grant both Kriede and Bordin the chance to die with their heads held high, facing their fates.
And even with Frau Seemann at the beginning of the event, she is... accompanied by Arturia, to put her whole self into her painting, a painting that, in my opinion, seemed to express more 'love' for the Witch King than condemnation of him, despite what the public thinks. It's with Arturia's help, because it is genuinely helping her recognize and express her feelings, that Seemann is able to put her whole 'self' and soul into her art... which is also just what an artist does, or at least what many might aspire to do.
I mean yeah, she still gives off sinister vibes at first glance, especially when you look at the background of her E2, and if you read about the powers of her Arts, they could be potentially very destructive if she had the mind to turn them to that purpose, but that's not really where her personality is, and she even says in her File that the reason why she doesn't play while at RI is because RI is basically making beautiful music on it's own and shouldn't be interrupted by her.
"She believes that truth freely, fully expressed, leads to a life without regret." And she's fucking right, damn, to thine own self be true.
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coquelicoq · 1 year ago
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what i love about the Famous Actor Natori Shuuichi of it all is that...it's not just that he's famous and therefore widely recognizable wherever he goes. like yes that is very funny because he was an exorcist before he became a famous actor, which means he CHOSE, on purpose, a day job that would make it harder to hide his double life/secret identity from the hordes of his adoring public, but it's more than that. it's not just that he's famous, it's that he's famous specifically for being an ACTOR, aka a person whose job it is to dissimulate, to make believe, to inhabit roles and emotions other than his own. like he decided he was going to become as visible as possible (which again was literally not necessary! he could have gone into any other career for his day job!!) but in such a way that everyone would see him but no one would see him - they would just see his various made-up personas, including the Famous Actor Natori Shuuichi persona. i can't decide if he's a genius or if he just made so many absurd decisions that they canceled each other out and circled back around to working out. he's either playing 9-dimensional chess or he's eating the pieces. too soon to say.
#the other thing i love about it is that in a very real sense it's his actor day job that is his alter ego#being an exorcist is his normie job. he's just a famous celebrity on the side#which isn't that uncommon in secret identity setups but it's still very funny#natsume's book of friends#natsume yuujinchou#natori shuuichi#natsuyuu meta#my posts#f#i think probably the actual answer is that acting was a very natural career choice because he already masks so extensively#both to hide that he can see things other people can't (and that youkai exist and that he exorcises them)#and to hide what he's really feeling so that no one can use it against him#so if it's already something he has to do & he's good at it...why not have someone tell him exactly how to do it & get paid for it?#and the other part of the answer is that most ppl don't go into acting assuming they'll get famous. the fame was a side effect#so each decision as it was being made probably made perfect sense. but put them all together#and you have this hilarious assortment of elements that seem to directly contradict each other#okay also i would be remiss if i didn't mention the other possible answer which is that the attention came first and was unavoidable#and the acting developed from the need to protect himself from the attention that he was going to be attracting no matter what he did#because he's so beautiful. and (in the exorcist world specifically) because he's the last of the natori#the more i talk about it the more i'm like no becoming a famous actor was the only path that made any sense for him lol#1) he's gonna be watched no matter what bc he's him -> gotta figure out how to hide his secrets -> learn to act as self-defense#or 2) he's got secrets -> he's gotten a lot of practice hiding them -> hey you could make a career out of this!#all roads lead to actor natori shuuichi. and since he's beautiful...all roads lead to FAMOUS actor natori shuuichi#i love it when i ramble so much in the tags that i end up contradicting my own post lol#he's neither thinking ten steps ahead nor is he irrational. he's simply making sensible individual decisions#that follow logically from what is available to him and what his priorities are
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ridell-crimea · 2 years ago
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back to da oldest hobby in the world (arbitrarily deciding two characters i like are friends)
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ipsen · 5 months ago
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touka discourse is old but like come on.
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(re 69+72)
she's like, the coolest person ever in :re idk
bonus:
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(re 69 again, talking to ayato)
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doodlejoltik · 1 month ago
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Guys I have a confession to make. In spite of all my PLA posting and especially Reiposting... I have not actually played PLA.
Until now!!!
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Armed with my new Switch Lite I now possess infinite power and will be able to Reipost to a degree heretofore unfathomable
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There he is!
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Objectively the best starter Rowlet /lh
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So far I have been having a blast catching 'mons, dodge-roll climbing my way up unreasonably tall places, and not doing the plot. I have been assured this is part of the experience.
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I forgot to take a screenshot so I had to yoink this from someone's YouTube playthrough but darn. Kamado. Did you really have to say it like that
(Haha isn't it funny that Rei does do that and yet he's not fully accepted and trusted in the end. Haha. Maybe he didn't work hard enough...)
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This line stuck out to me. On one hand it's cautionary - in context, it's meant to warn Rei that he should be careful in how he behaves around the Diamond and Pearl clans, since the Galaxy Team is in a tenuous position here in Hisui. But from another view, it sort of suggests that "we are all equally outsiders here. You belong" which is more explicitly stated in lines like this one:
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And so I see this narrative that's building up of "Rei can earn a place for himself where he is trusted and accepted if he works hard enough", which is reinforced time and time again as he gets more star ranks, and takes more requests from the villagers, who gradually become friendlier towards him, at varying rates. (I've been making a point to talk to all the NPCs every time I return to Jubilife Village.)
Which I'm sure you all know already, and which I also knew, to a point, but it hits different actually seeing its gradual progression in game.
Anyway. Next episode, we fight a Noble Pokemon and I'll see if all my dodge-rolling experience to climb tall heights will translate to being good at dodge-rolling away from murderously angry super-powered Pokemon. Wish Rei luck, he's being piloted by me and my decidedly lacking gamer reflexes XDD
I'll tag all my PLA posting "// tik plays PLA"
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moongothic · 8 months ago
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This is gonna turn into some Crocodad Propaganda eventually but putting the man aside for a little bit
Let's be real for a moment. Regardless of who Luffy's other biological parent is, regardless of if they're relevant to the story or not, no matter what has become of that person, if they're dead or somewhere out there alive, etc-- I believe Oda "knows the truth".
Although it took One Piece until post-Enies Lobby to reveal some of Luffy's blood relatives to us, Oda had technically introduced both Garp and Dragon to us all the way back in the East Blue saga. And Ace was introduced not too long after in the Baroque Works saga, along with his tattoo which held that secret tribute to Sabo all along. (Also he was introduced as "Portgaz D. Ace" meaning Oda must've intended to make the two non-blood brothers from the get-go.) All this means that Luffy's family, both adopted and blood relatives, have been in Oda's mind from the very begining of the story. And so if Oda had figured out Luffy's grandfather, father and at least one brother (if not both) from the begining, then why would he not have decided what became of the person who gave birth to the idiot as well? Like considdering how detail-oriented and meticulous Oda can be, would it not be unusual for him to essentially forget about a character that important (in the sense that Luffy literally would not exist without them) and just handwave them away without much thought? Would that not be out of character for Oda? As such, I don't think it is not unreasonable for us to believe that Oda would know what happened to Luffy's other bio-parent. Mind you, it really could be just something like "Luffy's mother died of The Disease when Luffy was a baby", or "the mom fell down the stairs" or "was eaten by a bear in the woods" or something, anything, whatever. Even if it truly does not matter to the story one bit, I'm sure Oda knows the truth of what happened and why that character wasn't a part of Luffy's life.
But at the same time, if the identity and the fate of Luffy's birthing parent truly did not matter to the story at all, then why wouldn't Oda just tell us who that was and what happened to them? In an SBS or an interview? It's not like people haven't been asking about it, because fans and staff alike have been asking about it for years. If the information really would not change anything, be it the direction the story will take or how we view the characters, if it really is just worthless trivia, then why keep it away from us?
Now of course, I'm sure you'd want to point out that one time Oda told Mayumi Tanaka that "A young boy's adventure begins after he leaves his mother's arms. I want to tell this young boy's adventure story, so his mom is not part of it." And Oda isn't known for lying, we do kind of want to take what he told Mayumi Tanaka at face value. At the same time though. If Luffy's other parent did become a plot relevant character in like the final 200 chapters of the story, after a 1100 chapters, they and their potential connection to Luffy would not have mattered to the story for 90% of its run. For an overwhealming majority of Luffy's adventure, that person would not have been a part of it. So if that character did become relevant, and Oda was lying, then it'd be a white lie at worst. But also, if Oda did intend to reveal that other parent eventually, when the time was right, then surely he wouldn't want to get people hyped up about it way ahead of time. If it did turn out to be a big plot twist or an otherwise important plot point, Oda would want to keep it under the wraps and a secret until the right time, you don't want to spoil something like that. Not to mention it could end up working like a distraction and make people not focus on the more important things happening in the story currently. So really, I think we'd all forgive him for a white lie there. Not to mention, technically speaking, if Luffy doesn't even have a mom but two dads, then Oda wouldn't really be lying either.
But that does bring up an important thing to considder.
If Crocodile does turn out to be Luffy's other dad, when did Oda get that idea, and when would he have committed to it?
Because, keep in mind, One Piece began back in 1997. Twenty seven whole years ago. Which means there's two things to considder; the evolution of queer rights over the past near three decades, as well as the fact that One Piece has more than surpassed Oda's original plans for the series. We must not forget how for a manga to remain serialized in Weekly Shounen JUMP, you need to perform well in the popularity polls consistently; if your manga starts dropping in popularity, JUMP can cancel it and force you end it prematurely. Of course, Oda arguably does not have to worry about those polls anymore after all these decades, there's no way in hell JUMP would ever cancel fucking One Piece in this day and age. But that might not have been the case 15 years ago, that was not the case 20 years ago, and that was absolutely not the fucking case 25 years ago. Like we all famously know that Oda originally planned One Piece to maybe run for like a year, then five years, then ten etc etc. That really is because at the begining of his career he had no quarantee he'd be able to tell the full story he was slow cooking at the back of his mind. Back in the early days, One Piece could've been canceled and ended prematurely, so Oda smartly chose to write it focusing very specifically on what mattered to the story at that moment, in the short term. Yes, he did start laying out the groundwork for things to come, but he did it so subtly that had OP been forced to end early, the series wouldn't have been left with too many massive, gaping plotholes or unresolved sidestories. Another thing to keep in mind is how comic artists for JUMP do have editors etc who can have a say in what goes into the manga (famously, Sasuke only existed because Matashi Kishimoto's editor suggested it). So again, while Oda might be able to do whatever the hell he pleases in One Piece at this point, that wouldn't have been the case 20+ years ago. He would have been more or less at the whims of his editors back in the day.
So would Oda have thought about giving Luffy, the main character of the series, a transgender father back in the year 2000? Could that really have been the secret plan from the start? And would Oda's editor(s) at JUMP have allowed that? Or, did Oda maybe come up with the idea later?
Now just so we're clear, I am NOT suggesting Crocodad was Oda's original intent and that his editors didn't let him do it or anything like that, my tinfoil hat isn't on that fucking tight. What I do want to suggest, is that it is plausible Crocodile being Luffy's other dad was an idea Oda was playing around with at the back of his mind from the begining, but wasn't sure he'd ever get to, mainly due to the uncertainty of series' future and partially because he could've been unsure if his editors would even allow him to write that story. And IF this was the case, Oda may not have even started committing to to the idea until around the CP9 saga. Or, it's possible Oda only got the idea sometime after the completion of the Alabasta arc/during Skypiea saga, and started laying down the groundwork for during Summit War so that, if he ever got around to it, he'd be able to commit and tell that story.
Regardless, let's be real.
It is interesting and kind of suspicious how Crocodile does just happen to be introduced around the same time the rest of Luffy's family was first shown to us, even if we didn't know Garp and Dragon were Luffy's family yet (this was also the same time the first canon queer character was introduced; Oda was playing around with queer characters during Crocodile's introduction, possibly testing the waters to see what he could get away with?) During the CP9 Saga we got the Miss Goldenweek cover story, where we see what's become of Crocodile after the fall of Baroque Works. This is of course adding to the world building of the CP9 Saga (where we're told the criminals who go through Enies Lobby are either sent to Impel Down or to Marineford; so us finding out Crocodile's gone to ID is playing off of what we knew would become of Robin and Franky and the Strawhats not come to rescue them. AND it's foreshadowing for the Summit War Saga), but also, soon after we were reminded of Crocodile and told where he's been sent off to, we were finally formally introduced to Garp and Dragon (Garp having already been mentioned by Aokiji at the begining of the Saga). And we close off the Saga watching Ace and Blackbeard have their fateful match. So again, Crocodile was on Oda's mind around the same time the rest of Luffy's family was. And indeed, after Thriller Bark we then move onto Summit War proper, where Oda does all The Things we would considder The Groundwork for Crocodad, most important being the introduction of Ivankov and their Devil Fruit. But again, just like before, Crocodile just happens to be there at the same time as this saga, which really heavily focuses on Luffy's family, plays out. While we learn about Dragon's secretive nature and connection to Iva-chan, Garp's feelings for the boys, Ace's struggle with his heritage and Luffy's love for him, Sabo and Garp... Yeah, Crocodile's just... Also there.
Whenever Oda starts dwelling into Luffy's family, Crocodile is always there. It's a bizarre coincidence if nothing else.
(And oh won't you look at that, Crocodile has once again become a plot relevant character, just in time for The Final Saga where Dragon has also started becoming actually plot relevant as well)
All of this to say, again.
The fact that Oda has refused to tell us anything about Luffy's other parent is sus, and to me indicates that either although unusual for him Oda genuinely just doesn't give a damn about Luffy's other parent, or he's been trying to play it safe for years so that if he ever got the opportunity, he could give Luffy two dads. (Or maybe there's some other twist that has nothing to do with Crocodile, that is possible too, I just feel like if that was the case then why hide it for 27 years?)
Whatever the case, I'm sure Oda knows the truth.
And I'm sure we will find out the truth eventually, be it on the pages of the comic or in the SBS.
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odessa-castle · 1 year ago
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I'm bouncing around a larger post about Nishiki and the mortifying ordeal of being known, but in the meantime I'm thinking about Nishiki and Kiryu and how the clothes make (or don't make) the man. Like, beyond my visceral horror that Kiryu begged Nishiki to pick out a safe and boring suit for him in Y0 and then said he was envisioning something purple with gold stripes.
I'm thinking about Nishiki's incredible sensitivity to image and his need to control how he's perceived. I'm thinking about Kiryu's inability to let go of the past. I'm thinking about how KIryu dresses like who he thinks he is, and Nishiki dresses like who he thinks he wants to be.
There's some interesting incidental dialogue between Nishiki and Kiryu in Y0 while they're en route to the men's suit store. I wish it wasn't so easy to miss, because there's a lot to unpack here. (I'm just transcribing the English in-game subtitles here; I don't speak Japanese so I have no idea how loose vs. direct the localization is in this part.)
NISHIKI: …now that I think about it, you've been dressing like an old man since we were kids. KIRYU: Have I? NISHIKI: Yeah. The few times we got to pick our clothes, it was always like, "you're choosing THAT?" NISHIKI: I wouldn't say you're a plain guy…You'd pick shirts with weird prints though. KIRYU: Guess I forgot all that. It's weirder to me that you haven't. NISHIKI: Well, confession time. You're why I started caring about fashion. I swore I'd never go out dressed like you. KIRYU: Come on, I'm not THAT bad. [we have already discussed why kiryu is, in fact, that bad.] NISHIKI: [laughing] Aww, did I hurt your feelings? NISHIKI: Well, this time you've got me with you. I'll see my bro gets taken care of. KIRYU: Heh. What an honor. NISHIKI: Leave it to me.
Nishiki doesn't bring up Sunflower Orphanage much; when he does share memories of his childhood, those memories are kind of painful (see: "do orphans not get to dream?"). Kiryu's surprised that Nishiki remembers how they dressed as kids, but it makes sense that wearing a limited selection of hand-me-downs stuck with Nishiki so strongly. His clothes announced his poverty, and they weren't even his -- he had to share them with the other orphans, so what he wore showed he belonged to yet another stigmatized group. And I'm sure people picked up on those visual signals, especially other kids. Kids can be vicious, and appearance is an easy and immediate target! We don't know for sure how young Nishiki interacted with his peers and teachers, but given what the Morning Glory kids go through in Y3 (and given, like, everything about Nishiki), he probably didn't have a great time.
Kiryu frames his childhood as poor but loving, and places much more emphasis on the latter. There might be some rose-colored glasses at work there -- let's look at the flashback where Kazama tries (and fails) to violently dissuade Kiryu and Nishiki from joining the yakuza.
KIRYU: I owe you everything, but this isn’t about that. [...] We’ve looked up to you for all this time. Your car. Your confidence… The way everybody bows to you. We idolized you. I want that life, too. Is that so wrong!?
Nishiki doesn't really speak in this flashback, but like, Kiryu uses "we" enough for us to draw some obvious conclusions about Nishiki's own motivations. That being said, I don't think Kiryu's being dishonest or disingenuous when he describes his childhood as happy, and himself as well-loved. He's not ashamed of his upbringing, and he doesn't hide where he came from. Nishiki seems to have the inverse view. It's not that he doesn't love (at least some of) the people he grew up with, but what comes up first for him is what he didn't have. He didn't have money. He didn't have respect. He didn't have a cure for his little sister. He didn't have a lot of choice, right down to the clothes he wore.
(There's a whole other essay here about why Kiryu's and Nishiki's perspectives diverge on this, but I'm trying to limit the scope of this post. Suffice to say that, while I don't think game canon gives a timeline, I do think Nishiki was a little older when his parents were killed -- old enough that he actually remembers them, at least.)
The same mindset fuels Nishiki's interest in fashion. Yeah, part of it is that he's ribbing Kiryu, but I think it goes deeper than Kiryu wearing ugly shirts. Nishiki doesn't want people to look at him and see what's missing. Fashion isn't a means of personal expression for him, really. It's a message. It's the interplay of knowledge and resources and presentation: knowing what clothes read as successful and trendy and expensive, being able to afford those things, and convincing people that your successful important outfit makes you a successful important person. And he's not wrong about the social dimensions of fashion.
NISHIKI: Try sporting a suit that runs 500 grand for once. Trust me, you’ll see the world in a whole new light. KIRYU: Fashion’s not my thing. Besides, Kazama-san never wore flashy clothes. NISHIKI: You do realize he’s the family captain, right? Number two in the whole Dojima operation? You get to that level, you can wear whatever you damn well please. But for the rest of us, “flashy” is part of the business. KIRYU: So that fancy new car you bought was just “business”. NISHIKI: Yeah, and that fancy lighter of mine, too. Which you still haven’t given back. KIRYU: You want to play the rich guy, quit being so stingy. NISHIKI: But you get what I’m saying, right? People see the expensive car, the designer jacket, and the gleam of that little Dojima pin, they pay attention. A yakuza’s only as good as his image. [...] Take your buddy today. These squeaky-clean idiots, borrowing money just to blow on tits and booze… Nobody in this town gives a crap about substance. What you see is what you get.
That's our first take on one of the major themes of the game: what does it mean to be yakuza? Again, there is truth to what Nishiki's saying here, particularly in terms of the ethos of the eighties. I'm not an expert on the bubble era, but the worldbuilding in the game speaks for itself. People hail taxis with 10,000-yen bills. You punch money out of punks during random street battles. Nishiki keeps a personal bottle of high-end booze at a bar he's visited twice, mostly because he "can’t stand being taken for a bum." The act of spending is important, not what you're spending it on.
Nishiki's outfit in Y0 is perfectly suited (heh) to that outlook. And look, I might be inviting controversy here, but in context, I think it's a werq. Yes, it's loud. But the silhouette -- squared shoulders, single breasted, thinner peaked lapel -- is right on trend for the time period, and it fits him well. The colors look good on him. The bold pattern (no, it's not animal print) under the solid maroon is a risk, but he pulls it off. And excess aside, he knows when to pull back on the accessories. It's bright and confident and memorable, and boy would Nishiki like to be all of those things.
Also -- and importantly -- Kiryu would never go out dressed like that. Because we can't talk about Nishiki and Kiryu without talking about Nishiki's Mt. Fuji-sized inferiority complex. Mastering image doesn't just make Nishiki stand out; it makes him stand out from Kiryu. Let's go back to the beginning of the game.
NISHIKI: I’ll admit, though, you’re finally starting to look the part. You make a pretty convincing yakuza. You’re done with collections today, right? KIRYU: Yeah. NISHIKI: Good. That should put Kazama-san’s mind at ease a bit. KIRYU: Heh, dunno about that. But he always knew all I could do is fight. You’re the one who’s good at the dance.
Nishiki then calls attention to the "rags" that Kiryu's wearing, which...is not an unfair assessment. (TUCK IN YOUR SHIRT, KIRYU. HEM YOUR PANTS.) As the two of them walk around Kamurocho, Nishiki offers Kiryu plenty of hot tips, from meeting girls to making big bucks to cozying up to the brass. But even when Nishiki's opining on his area of expertise, there's a competitive edge to it. "You asking me to pick out clothes for you means you admit you have terrible taste," he tells Kiryu on the way to the suit shop. Kiryu tells him to shut up, but there's no actual hurt behind it. Kiryu doesn't really care that his taste in clothes sucks. Fashion isn't important to him. Most of the things Nishiki knows so much about don't really matter to Kiryu. And that makes Nishiki feel more insecure! Because if Kiryu rolls out of bed looking like a yakuza, if Nishiki's image counseling sessions aren't helpful or meaningful, if Kiryu can skip the dance and get to the top on the strength of his fists and convictions, then who cares about Nishiki's 500 grand suit or his hourlong hair care routine? If image isn't what makes a yakuza, what does that make Nishiki?
At the end of Chapter 6, Nishiki tries to look out for Kiryu again -- this time, by granting him a merciful death before the Dojima Family drags him to the Hole. It's one of my favorite scenes in the game. Nishiki's crying too hard to aim the gun properly; Kiryu tells him to man up and shoot. Finally, Nishiki collapses.
NISHIKI: Can’t do it… How could I shoot you!? Without you, I’ll always be nothing. Can’t make it as a yakuza… No. I wouldn’t even still be alive now if I didn’t have you beside me! I’m just… If you’re not with me, I’m useless! Nothing means anything!
Mastering image hasn't granted Nishiki anything of substance. At the end of the day, Nishiki's playing dress-up, and he knows it.
And I'm almost certainly getting into overthinking-this territory now (if I haven't gotten there already), but I kind of like the spin this puts on Nishiki ripping his expensive suit off in Chapter 14 when he decides to fight the Dojima Family at Kiryu's side. Like yes, ripping off your outer layers to get at the naked (so to speak) truth -- your irezumi, and what it represents -- is just Yakuza Storytelling 101. It's decisive, it's kind of dumb, it's great, it gets me hyped every time. But I like that Nishiki's honest answer to "what does it mean to be a yakuza?" isn't about looking the part. I am genuinely trying not to end this paragraph by saying that Nishiki must become like a dragon, but like...you get where I'm going with this.
Of course, Nishiki's back to playing dress-up in Y1/Kiwami. I'm not the first to call the Patriarch Nishikiyama look a glow-down (though I like the patterned white tie). Like, fashion-conscious Nishiki would look good in a Hedi Slimane/Tom Ford-esque skinny black suit. But he picks a silhouette you'd expect to see on a much older man, torso-swallowing pants and all. The slicked-back hair doesn't help. He's just so transparently trying to look bigger and broader and older, and he doesn't pull it off. Big Bad Patriarch isn't a good look for him, in any sense of the phrase.
A final thought: Kiryu's clothes, and Nishiki's commentary on them, are the subject of their first conversation in Y0 -- and of their last. Kiryu's costume progression in Y0 is a pretty obvious commentary on his journey, to the point where Kiryu and Nishiki explicitly call attention to the color connotations in their final exchange. As a Dojima grunt, he wears black, and it doesn't look good on him because "brutish thug who keeps his head down and does what he's told" isn't a role he's comfortable with. He wears white when he works in real estate, but the change in color isn't enough to sell anyone on his transformation into a civilian. Although it's a little rich for Oda "Red Clown Shoes" Jun to chide someone for not wearing a proper suit. At the end of the game, Kiryu's in his classic grey suit, and well, the game spells it out:
KIRYU: I’m not feeling black or white these days. This is where I’m at right now. I chose it myself. I’m making it a fresh start. NISHIKI: Fine, fine. See if I care! Wear it the rest of your life!
Nishiki, dismayed, tells Kiryu that the grey suit already looks dated, but for Kiryu, "fresh start" doesn't mean "on trend". His image might be out of step with how other yakuza view themselves, or want to be seen, but if he's always going to look like a yakuza, he might as well stake his claim on what being a yakuza means. Still, it's telling that, even as a young man, Kiryu looks like a throwback to an earlier era. As the series progresses, the games hammer this home more and more. How many antagonists tell Kiryu that he's out of touch with the modern world, that he represents a version of the yakuza that no longer exists, that it's time for him to make way for the next generation?
"Wear it the rest of your life!" is a funny little in-joke, yeah, but...it's a little sad when you think about it, isn't it? Kiryu gets new outfits from Y3 on -- and in every game, he ultimately puts the suit back on and heads to Kamurocho. It's exactly of a piece with how Kiryu views being yakuza. We, and he, can debate the exact extent of his retirement from the Tojo Clan's affairs, but the yakuza isn't a career for Kiryu, it's a set of beliefs he carries with him. He wears the suit the same way he wears the dragon on his back: as an indelible part of his self-image.
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chickenstrangers · 11 months ago
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the "juxtaposition of a straight couple taking photos" trope strikes again!
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+ bonus juxtaposing straight couples sans photography
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