#philosemitism

[socialist-microwave-laser]

can we delete the "hebrew for christians" website off the face of the internet already

[hussyknee]

I know some dickheads have now decided that Judaism is the "bad, violent, terrorist religion" and Islam is the "good, peaceful" one, which is only to be expected of white people, but how much of an issue is it currently? Like I've seen some USAmericans sharing how the Islamic faith shapes Gazans values and perseverance (good) except with that distinct white hippie "I'm about to imprint on this like the world's most racist duck" vibe (bad), but I didn't think they're already turning on Judaism in numbers.

Do they realize that Christianity is also the same kind of comfort to Christian minorities in Asia and Africa? That it was Buddhists that genocided the Rohingyas in Myanmar and Tamils in Sri Lanka? That Hindu fundamentalists are even now trying to ethnically cleanse Muslims in India? How Hindus and Christians are terrorized and persecuted in Pakistan? That Muslims have a history of persecuting and ethnically cleansing Jews too?

Really tired of asking y'all to be normal about people's religions man. There's no religion that's inherently violent or exceptionally peaceful. It's just like any other ideology that becomes a weapon in the hands of ethnic power. Interrogate power, not religion, and respect people's belief systems insofar as they aren't in your business.

Edit: I've amended the "long history" of Muslim persecution of Jews because it might be misleading in the current political climate. Zionism and antisemitic Arab nationalism are twin births resulting directly from Christian colonization, and Islamic empires tended to actually be more tolerant of other religions compared to Christianity, especially Judaism, which was considered a sibling religion. Antisemitism wasn't ideologically entrenched in Islamic tradition. It's simply that ethno-religious power will lead to ethno religious domination and intermittent cleansing of minorities, and Islam is no exception. Humans be humaning always.

[notaplaceofhonour]

[kropotkindersurprise]

[source]

[magnetothemagnificent]

Can I ask what the difference is between philosemitism and antisemitism? As an asian-american person, I was curious about antisemitism in asia and apparently philosemitism is the norm in east asian countries but it still felt a bit antisemitic ? Maybe because it felt fetishizing I guess.

So, philosemitism is a part of antisemitism, but instead of othering Jews in outright negative light, it perpetuates harmful stereotypes about Jews under the guise of admiration or emulation.

As an Asian-American, you might be familiar with the concept of the Model Minority Myth in how it pertains to Asian-Americans. Instead of outright racist slurs and attacks, it's "oh all Asians are so smart and successful" and "Asians are sooooo attractive". Of course, this enables racism and violence against Asian-Americans, because Asian-Americans are then seen as threats to white dominance, thus fueling hate crimes and sexual objectification and violence.

This is what philosemitism is, except it's applied towards Jews. Instead of "Jews are kikes and we should kill them all", it's "Jews are so powerful and successful and so good with money" and "Jews must have some sort of secret to their success, maybe it's in their holy texts". This kind of antisemitism, philosemitism, is prevalent in East Asian countries. It's still deeply antisemitic. It still treats Jews as the "other", as some kind of strange people who are mysteriously powerful.

This kind of rhetoric is the same kind of rhetoric behind infamous texts such as 'The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion', which popularized the myth that Jews secretly control the world, and allowed the justification for increased antisemitic violence and genocide, including the Holocaust. Philosemitism is still antisemitism, and you're right, it is deeply fetishistic at times. In many ways, philosemitism is a lot more insidious than other forms of antisemitism because it allows the perpetrator to hide behind the excuse of "but I wasn't saying anything negative about Jews! How could you call it hate speech??!"

But saying "Jews control the banks" or "Jews control Hollywood" or "Jews hold the secret to success" is just as harmful as saying "Jews kill babies" or "Jews are disgusting rats" or "Jews killed Jesus."

A lot of antisemitism relies on propping Jews as some kind of all-powerful cabal (the word "cabal" even comes from the Jewish mystic texts of the Kabbalah), which then justifies antisemitism. It positions Jews as some kind of powerful entity and not the marginalized group that we are. Which allows antisemitism to thrive with the excuse of "we're just fighting back against the oppressors!" This is what philosemitism fuels.

[redditantisemitism]

Could you elaborate on how philosemitism is antisemitism in disguise?

I mean I get it when evangelical Christians do it, because of their stupid belief in the rapture and apocalypse worship (the dumb fuckers also split my own country in half).

But outside of that context, could you elaborate or clarify please.

Oh I’d love to (genuinely, I do love talking about this sort of thing!)

TL: DR: Philosemitism is DEHUMANIZING.

So you’re right on the money with evangelical Christians, and that is absolutely ONE OF the ways philosemitism is antisemitism.

A key way philosemtism is antisemitic is the “model minority” myth. This comes in many forms, like “Jews are rich”, “Jews are super smart”, “Jews are successful” etc. while these sound complimentary on the surface, they aren’t. First, it minimizes the effects of other forms of antisemitism that Jews face because it makes it seem like everything is fine for us all, when in reality Jews span the entire range of socioeconomic status, as well as intelligence.

It also creates pressures for Jews that don’t live up to the expectations, and causes people to treat Jews a certain way. I definitely recommend doing some more research into it, because it’s useful information and very interesting.

Another form of Christian philosemitism/antisemitism involves connecting Jews to Jesus.

A pretty common phrase is “I love Jews, Jesus was Jewish!” Or some variation on that theme. Again, innocuous on the surface, but when you look deeper the issues become very apparent.

First, it basically states that instead of caring for Jews because we’re people, they care about us BECAUSE of our connection to Jesus.

Second, it puts us on a pedestal and mythologizes us as a mystical ancient culture (of Jesus) fully disregarding that we are a beautiful, diverse, living culture. These attitudes are extremely harmful, as it is literally impossible for us to be this magical people they expect us to be.

There’s a lot more I could probably say about it all, but it’s a really complex topic with a lot of nuance. I really recommend doing some digging.

[gay-jewish-bucky]

post: just because you are on the left does not mean you are immune to antisemitism

weirdo in the replies:

-

please just don't do this 😭 i'm not saying you can't ever find jewish people attractive, that's fine, but it's super fucking weird to single out a specific ethnic or racial group especially in response to being told not to be bigoted towards that group

[hindahoney]

Thank you for your post about the word shiksa. I'd seen similar posts in the past - that you shouldn't call yourself that and it's not a term worth reclaiming - but none of those posts ever properly explained WHY. The best I could ever find was that it's often used to insultingly refer to converts that were married to or planning to marry Jewish men before their conversion as a way to imply their reasoning for becoming a Jew wasn't genuine enough. I didn't understand why that would be something that shouldn't be reclaimed. Knowing that it's a term meant to refer to people that fetishize Jews puts it in an ENTIRELY different light. At least, in my brain, it does. So, yeah, thanks for actually explaining your point.

"Shiksa" cannot be "reclaimed." It's not as if that word has a widely-known history or is used by a hegemonic population to oppress people. There's no need or use for reclamation. A gentile woman calling themselves a shiksa, knowing what it means, seriously makes me feel disgusted. It's the same as someone who fetishizes Asians proudly saying they have "Yellow Fever."

I've never heard that phrase in reference to converts, only towards gentile women who seek out Jewish men specifically. It's more common than people would think. I once invited a Christian friend to a Purim party, where she told me she was just trying to take home one of the men there. This same friend told me she broke up with her Jewish boyfriend because he had been to Israel. Suffice to say we aren't friends anymore. It's incredibly common for (white) Christians specifically to fetishize Jews. It's just expected that all of the Jewish dating apps are unusable because they're full of WASPs looking for Jews.

While there isn't a widely used term for gentile men who fixate on Jewish women, I have seen the term "bagel chasers." I don't like it, because it makes it seem more cutesy and funny than it actually is in real life. It's deeply unsettling and uncomfortable when I'm working and men approach me saying they'd convert for me, or think that saying "shabbat shalom" to me on a Tuesday will make me believe they're also Jewish (and thus someone I should date). There's not a single part of me that thinks it's funny. They see Jews as a novelty and not as people. It's less because they are interested in us, they're interested in conquering us.

[probablyasocialecologist]

For the Christian Zionists, Jerusalem will be the setting for the Second Coming of Christ and the Battle of Armageddon. The lands of Israel need to be united and ready for the day of the ‘Rapture’, when all believers will be transported to meet the Lord, while everybody else perishes. Millions of Americans believe therefore that God requires them to offer unconditional financial, political and military support to Israel, even if all Jews will perish too. This may sound like a very strange kind of philosemitism: unequivocal support for Zionist Jews because they are indispensably dispensable, if not sacrificial. But the Israeli extreme right, which is the country’s dominant political force, and the Christian Zionists have the same political aim based on totally opposing religious convictions.

Antony Lerman, Whatever Happened to Antisemitism?: Redefinition and the Myth of the 'Collective Jew'

[alanshemper]

TrueAnon did a pretty good two-parter on German philosemitism

These episodes are behind a paywall, but as Marx once said, "Pirating leftist media is praxis."

[luckys-last-brain-cell]

The weirdest excuse for philosemitism in any form has to be “oh, it’s out of respect/love!”

If you love and respect a culture, you don’t show it like that.

[hussyknee]

the reason that the US treats the holocaust the way it does is so it can congratulate itself on "saving" jews from it and ending the holocaust. never mind that a huge reason so many jews died is bc the US basically wouldn't let us in after 2023 and we weren't able to escape Europe (many, many tried). Anyway the response to this isn't "stop thinking the holocaust is important" or "antisemitism isn't pervasive/non-Jews don't harbor subconscious antisemitism." Honestly your post is pretty gross and I've unfollowed. Sorry my intergenerational trauma no longer serves whatever political affiliation you have, and so now you have to minimize it as a reaction. Maybe Jews shouldn't be rhetorical tools at all. The Holocaust was a massive disaster to Jewish culture and soul and identity that will take centuries to heal from, and we never fully will. And none of that is what the US cares about. Be careful when you critique philosemitism you don't just veer into antisemitism instead. Because that's all philosemitism ever really was.

...why are you repeating everything I said back to me?

Me: ''The US governments

used philosemitism to weaponize the Holocaust by pushing a revionist narrative about their role in it

and making themselves look like the champion of Jews

to push their own military propaganda and deflect from their own ongoing war crimes and genocides

and turned antisemitism into a cudgel to attack anyone criticising Israel or the political establishment

(mostly BIPOC‚ so it looked like racism and anti-blackness mattered less)

all the while ignoring actual antisemitism or protecting their own Jewish citizens in any material way

as though the state had no role in empowering white Christian nationalism

because it served their purpose for Jews to migrate to Israel."

Some weirdo who can't read: ''you think antisemitism doesn't exist and the Holocaust doesn't matter??? Antisemite??"

I have better things to do than endlessly refute shit I never said nor implied and deal with your piss on the poor reading comprehension. This commitment to misunderstanding everything a PoC says and whitesplaining stuff we already said comes from your own racist suspicion and condescension. Dont let the door hit you on your way out.

[the-library-alcove]

Philosemitic Christians are really the most pathetic antisemites. They claim to love "Jews", but what they love is their conception of Jews as "Jesus' people" or "our brethren in faith" or whatnot, and as soon as an actual Jew voices an opinion to the contrary, they start a tantrum or claiming to be a victim.

And, sure, they can do some work on challenging other Christians' more egregious antisemitism, but their purported allyship only goes so far as their own use for Jews as part of their own religious faith goes. All we have to do is say, "Hey, your attempts to be an ally have these problems with their own antisemitic connotations" and the screaming and crying and the "no, you're the bigot!" accusations start.

[pozechka]

"Ojeda Mata’s introduction begins with the tragic example of Salonica’s Sephardim near total annihilation in 1943 when they were deported. Only around 500 Sephardim from Salonika and Athens were saved because they could demonstrate that they were Spanish subjects. Contrastingly, a year later, the Spanish government protected several thousand Jews from Budapest by issuing them ordinary and temporary passports and protection cards, thus saving them from a certain death. The harsh difference between the fate of these two communities, as well as the manner in which Franco’s regime publicized or hid the realities concerning their policies towards Jews presents a stark picture of the political reality that was driving their decisions."

[...]

"[Ojeda Mata] details the particularity of the development of nineteenth century philo-sephardism, which defended Spanish political and economic connection to Sephardi communities throughout the Muslim Mediterranean world. However, as a philosophy espoused by the right, philo-sephardism was often accompanied by anti-semitism. Sephardi Jews were considered to be more “Spanish” whereas Ashkenazi Jews were denigrated with the negative characteristics of “Jews” (26). It is this very ambivalence to Sephardim as Jews that ultimately sealed the fate of those that were ultimately not protected by the Spanish regime during the Nazi period. Her carefully documented explanation of this shows how the larger policy was implemented throughout occupied Europe in different ways according to the diplomats in charge and the orders that they were given from the headquarters in Spain."

— Vanessa Paloma Elbaz, review of the book Identidades ambivalentes: Sefardíes en la España contemporánea by Maite Ojeda Mata

[magnetothemagnificent]

Taking away the term "Nice Jewish Boy/Girl" from goyim.

[redditantisemitism]

Here’s an interesting one-is this antisemitism? I think so. Let’s discuss:

First, the context. This comment was left on a post containing this meme, poking fun at the messianic “Jews” (they aren’t Jewish) and antisemitic Christians that appropriate Pesach.

Now. This person does make a few correct statements, and I’ll give them credit. They’re right that a lot of Christians and Christianity are antisemitic. But with that out of the way, let’s look at the myriad of ways they’re so very wrong:

I'm not going to pretend to know a lot about Passover

User admits that they are not qualified to be making judgements. As a Christian it isn't their place to tone police Jews anyways, but especially since they admit that they have no idea what they're talking about.

I would refrain from throwing all Christians under the bus

I'm sure they would. That isn't what is happening though, and framing it like this highlights their defensiveness- they aren't trying to have a productive conversation, they just don't like seeing Christianity being portrayed this way. Playing the victim, and not for the last time.

The Catholic church has largely been the main culprit here

Interestingly, there is a Catholic elsewhere in the thread blaming the Protestants. Typical Protestant vs. Catholic stuff, and this user is using it to attempt to distance themself from the "bad" Christians. Also, in my experience, almost every Christian "seder" I've seen or heard of has been held by a Protestant sect of some sort.

it's important to know that all the while the persecution was happening to jews by christians, there have been other christians speaking out against it.

More of the same, see above. "not all Christians!"

Please don't forget about the Christians who are willing to lay down their lives for the Jewish people.

Here's where the fetishization starts. Also, literally nobody asked you to do that, don't use us to feed your martyr complex. Also also, where exactly are these Christians, because they've been doing a shitty job.

Christians like myself are perfectly capable of seeing Yeshua in the Passover without changing it, or preaching to you up and down about it.

And this is where the explicit antisemitism starts, as opposed to the red flags we've been seeing. This person, based on their language, seems to be some sort of "Torah believing Christian"- something inherently appropriative and antisemitic.

Furthermore, YOU SHOULD NOT BE SEEING JESUS IN PASSOVER. That is, at best, idiotic, and at worst, actively antisemitic. It's certainly supercessionist. JEWISH TEXTS DO NOT PROPHESIZE JESUS. Christians should not be touching Pesach uninvited in ANY way, regardless of if they change things or not.

Yeshua didn't change it and neither should we

This person demonstrates an astounding level of ignorance. Any modern Seder would HAVE to be different than any Seder Jesus might have held (assuming he even existed), because it is impossible to do it like him. There is no temple to offer animal sacrifices at, like there would have been at the time. Regardless, not only should Christians not be changing seders, they shouldn't be touching it.

They then rant for a while about how Easter is bad. Which. My dude. That's your holiday. Go fuck around with that and leave Jews alone.

Please have patience and a soft heart for Christians who believe that:

More "not all Christians", this time with an added level of playing the victim. Hard pass.

-Jews don't need to be converted

Even stopped clocks are right twice a day.

-Christians have the holidays and events wrong

Uh? No? Is this some weird Christian intracommunity thing? Your holidays are your holidays, leave ours alone.

-the dietary laws were upheld by yeshua

Regardless of if this is true or not, Jesus was Jewish. This poster isn't. Kosher is for Jews. Christians aren't entitled to Jewish practice just because they worship a Jew.

-all of the torah was upheld by yeshua

see previous bullet point.

-the Jews are the chosen people of God

Typical Christian misunderstanding of "Chosen". "Chosen" to uphold the mitzvot, not to be better, or put on a pedestal. This is another example of how they fetishize Jews, and it does not get better.

-the Jews come first

See previous bullet point. Fetishization like this is disgusting and harmful. It removes humanity and personhood from Jews, instead presenting us as some mystical object of worship that we never claimed to be and can never live up to. We are not a zoo exhibit, we are a vibrant and living culture.

-salvation is of the Jews

See previous bullet point. We are people, not a tool for your salvation.

-the Jews have been entrusted with the words of Yah*weh

See previous bullet point. Also super disrespectful to just throw that name around in Jewish spaces, but I don't know what I expected from an antisemitic, philosemitic Jew fetishist.

-we should be suffering with the Jews, not against them

WE ARE NOT FUEL FOR YOUR MARTYR COMPLEX. Plenty of Jewish suffering would be alleviated if Christians like this person would just leave us alone. But they don't actually want Jewish suffering to stop, because then they'd lose a tool and a way to play victim.

they end with a plea not to lump all Christians together with the "bad" ones- something literally nobody was doing. Once again, it's a lot of "Not all Christians!!!" and their own self-victimhood. They say not all Christians are "like that", which is true. But this one certainly is.

Chag Pesach sameach everybody, and stay off the fuss bus.