#preboot mary

[sparklearchive]

Preboot Staff Character Cards

[thequiver]

Hey Mari! What's the age gap b/w Ollie and Dinah?

Uh….. that depends on when and who is writing because DC is a fucking nightmare

So originally she was like 10 years older than him and then she was around 10 years younger than him

But then they stopped letting Dinah age and brought her age down again while letting Ollie continue to age so the age gap got bigger….. and then they retconned how Dinah came to join the JLA and how old she was when she did which had them meet when Dinah was 19 and it’s all very….. gross

I tend to go with her being around 10 years younger than him and having them meet when they’re both decidedly adults, Ollie is in his late 30s and Dinah would be in her late 20s! Because I do this based on the preboot canon found in the O’Neil and Grell runs!

Dinah’s age is tricky so I hope this helps!

[bat-lings]

I was reading about the anon who said Bruce was historically a bad father and I guess I just want to ask about original DCAU!Bruce? Like from BTAS, there are episodes where he seems like a genuinely kind person (like in "Robin's reckoning" where he really attempts to understand dick). What do you think of that characterization of Bruce? He's still terrible with communication but he treats everyone with compassion, even rogues (two face and Mary Dahl come to mind).

About this & this.

BTAS!Bruce is 100% good stuff writing-wise. Compassion is one of Bruce’s main traits, as far as I’m concerned, and I wish every writer who get their hands on him remembered that. BTAS!Bruce is my Bruce, pretty much— it’s one of the few adaptations that captured what I actually liked about the character in the comics. (Remove a tinsy bit of emotional-competency, perhaps, and there you have it.)

Today? Feels like current writers are not even realizing they’re writing abuse. They’re just dialing the violence up to 11 cuz they think it’s what makes a scene impactful, and they don’t think much about the consequences. We’re talking the canon that had Jason, an adult, beat up Damian, a child, senseless; and that framed it as a victory. Bruce’s current portrayal is right in that same line.

I want to make it clear that I’m not dismissing the other anon’s points about some of Bruce’s worst behaviors existing in preboot too, and how the anti-Bruce feeling is justified. But at the end of the day it comes down to what we consider in-character or not, what we consider his character represented and should keep on representing. But the fact remains not every writers gets the memo, and the impact it has on some readers’ perception of the character is inevitable.

[dykerachelsummers]

Yo tee tell the good people abt ur plans for the Secret Six on earth 82!!!! 💙💕💙💕💙💕💙

oh man ok so a lot of it is sticking pretty close to canon except like. i’m kinda combining preboot and nu52 into one storyline and also, bc i’m a good person, making jade more of a member of the team.

so the original secret six lineup is scandal, kay, thomas, floyd, jade, and ragdoll! jade leaves the team to go back to talia and the league and is replaced by jeannette, lori, bane, nanaue, kani/kevin, mary, ralph, and sue. liana’s there too. making them less a secret “six” and more a secret thirteen, but they’re not changing the name.

they start out as a team but slowly evolve more into a family where the kids are just like,, welp these are our parents and weird aunts/uncles.

jade ends up joining up with them several times after this and eventually ends up having thomas’s kid, which leads to her becoming a more permanent member of the group, along with her eventual partner komand’r.

idk they’re just a family that gets hired for missions but usually just end up doing whatever the fuck they want.

[gamerzylo]

For the Knuckles ship thing, who is Julie?

Julie-Su was a character from the preboot Archie Sonic comics.

Be warned, info dump incoming because I love talking about Archie Sonic lore.

She was the daughter of Grandmaster Luger of the Dark Legion, a large group of echidnas who basically worshipped technology, started by Luger’s grandfather Menniker. After Menniker’s death by explosion his son, Moritori Rex, took over for a while. Luger came along and had two kids with his first wife, Merin-Da, them being Kragok and Lien-da, who saw Moritori as their father instead of Luger because Luger lacked the usual ruthlessness of his father and grandfather. Then Luger remarried after his first wife died and along came Julie-Su.

At some point the second wife, Mari-Su (I wish I was joking about her name), was murdered by Kragok and Lien-Da, the two eventually following this up by killing Luger and erasing Julie-Su’s memories at least twice in her life while they took over as Grandmaster and Kommisar respectively (Moritori was busy impersonating Guardian Tobor for years at this time). Eventually Menniker’s father, Dimitri, was freed from his prison (long story in itself, chaos god shenanigans) and took over as Grandmaster. During this time Julie-Su defected from the Dark Legion after meeting Knuckles (this plot point was handled really stupidly).

Anyway, Dimitri becomes Knuckles’ arch-nemesis because the whole Grandmaster vs Guardian thing is a blood-fued stemming over 300 years ago after Menniker blamed Dimitri’s brother, Edmund, for his father’s “death” (again, chaos god shenanigans). Eventually Edmund was appointed the first Guardian and was killed shortly after. His son, Steppenwolf, became the second Guardian and the first who actually knew how to fight. Steppenwolf sent the Dark Legion to the Twilight Zone (no, I’m not joking, that was the legit name), where time moved much, much more slowly. Over the years the Dark Legion would break out, fight the current Guardian, and get sent back. Every time there’d be several generations of Guardians since the last they encountered because again, time moving slowly in that zone.

Zooming back to the then present day, Knuckles is the current Guardian and Julie-Su is by his side (until legal shit happened in real life).

Fastfowarding by 30 years, the two have a daughter, Lara-Su. There are two recurring time lines where Julie-Su is seen:

Dark Mobius, where Knuckles went off the deep end, took over the Dark Legion, and conquered the world, decimating most of the population. Here Julie-Su lied to Lara-Su to protect her from the truth by claiming Knuckles was killed in the line of duty. This prompted Lara-Su to try time traveling, ending up in Mobius Prime by accident, and save Knuckles only to be sent back home against her will. The truth comes out, Lara-Su joins the resistance force against her father, loses her mother to him, and eventually teams up with Silver to free her world.

Light Mobius, where Knuckles went off the deep end but was stopped and lost an eye. Here’s where it gets tricky; there are two versions of Light Mobius. In the unaltered timeline, which never went past 25 years and was collapsing in on itself, Lara-Su is friends with Sonic and Sally’s kids, Sonia (older) and, albeit reluctantly, Manik (younger). She temporarily gets erased from existence when Sonic tries going back in time. She reappears in the altered time line with her memories somewhat intact. Shenanigans ensue, she takes down Shadow, and becomes the new Guardian, doubling as a babysitter five years later for Sonia and Manik, the two reborn as twins. In the unaltered time line Julie-Su has been reduced to a home-maker house-girlfriend (they go out of their way to state that marriage isn’t for Knuckles or Julie-Su). In the altered time line Julie-Su only has two brief appearances but she actively travels with Knuckles to negotiate peace among separatist groups and Mobius’ monarchy.

[tzigone]

Looking for Billy Batson fic that doesn’t involve Batman

Anyone know of any good Billy Batson-centric fic that doesn’t involve Batman?  Not too fond of N52 Billy, but preboot Billy or YJ Billy or reboot/origin-fic is cool.  Ones either with his homelessness (meeting Dudley, if you like that route) or with his friendships with Freddy and Mary or where he’s dating Courney Whitmore or Cissie Sommerly. Or just trying to balance being a kid and a hero. Hanging out with the Justice League is great, as long as Batman isn’t the JLer featured.  Just not Bat-stories.  I like the Bats, read plenty of Bat-fiction. But I want Captain Marvel fic for this, not Batfic.

[thegirlfromstationsquare]

It's selective and a bit misogynistic too. They make a bucnh of articles about Elise being tbe worse character, or Sally being a Mary Sue but won't criticize Scourge because he's the bad boy (and more of a mary sue than Sally was), nor Preboot Sonic for his constant chatting up girls or meanstreak.

I will forever question why people shat on Amy because of how she's ( badly written ) regarding her crush with Sonic, but somehow Pre Reboot Sonic and Snot ( Scourge ) gets a free pass, was all ignored, or didn't get as much as hate for their actions

Peope are just selective in what they view as "bad writing" despite it all being objectively bad writing.

[fishfingersandjellybabies]

I refuse to read anything with Tim in it these days (at least until someone fixes his personality and relationships more) so I have not read any of the Super crossover. But from what I've read of reviews I feel miffed as a Damian, Bruce, Clark.... everybody) fan. Truly this future Tim is the most vile of Rebirth villains in his terribly written Mary Sue murderous ways. Damian is a priceless treasure that Tim (future or present) and most of the Teen Titans don't deserve.

In fairness (wow who thought I’d say that) this evil future murdery Tim is NOT a product of reboot shenanigans. He existed in preboot, in a similar ridiculous and stupid manner, guns and all. Before Damian or Jon or reboots were even a thought in someone’s head. 

Though yeah no one deserves Damian. That’s why Jon exists, to protect him from the bullshit haha. 

[sparklearchive]

apologies if you’ve no idea for either of these but- do you know who faerie bread’s original owner was??? Also does anyone have that one piece an ex-clown shared of kittycorn’s childhood friends au?? It had art of kid Barry, Caroline, Hemera, Jay, Kiki, Polly, Orange & Jean, apparently Uni, Doom & Mood were there too but op didn’t share that art. I believe the clown was whoever made the sparklecare hex color code archive. Their original url had something to do with Funfetti but for the life of me I can’t remember

the childhood friends au art is unknown to me but the designs can be found here

here’s a list of all sparkle/comet characters that originally weren’t made by kitty (that we know of)!

Caroline Snezhana Coughs - Spacey

Hemera Olle Philly - Louise

Jay Find Fortune - Jay

Rebecca “Bec” Light - Jude

Jandy Jane - Charlie (not chimera)

Scratch N. Shniff - Donnie

Pepper - Cinnamon

Polaris “Polly” Amry Klepsky - Carmen

Finnegan “Finn” Fevers - Cupid

Reese Trent - Sen

Kiki Pilaris - Cinnamon

Orange U. Glad - Casey/Shrubbyfrog

Jean Errie - Chaos

Chipsky “Chip” Fresh - Jay

Shekann T. Sea - Jay

Mel N. Colly - Donnie

Arthur “Archy” Righteous - Charlie (not chimera)

Cyn Dherr - Donnie

Mood - Created by KC, idea by Chaos

Doom - Created by KC, rat-spider motif proposed by Wolf during the preboot

Rem Elle Dies - Chaos

Boxa Caken Funfetti - Charlie (not chimera)

Brake No Harts - Jane

Lovella Puppy - Donnie

Lee Pinata Heere- Charlie (not chimera)

Stephann Snare - (unknown)

Samani “Sammy” Kills - (unknown)

Mary Shortnick - Charlie (not chimera)

Godiva L. Stone - Cinnamon

Suffuzz Incilence - Wolf

Lucy Charm - Cinnamon

Iris - Carmen

Kathy Leet - Chaos

Cedric Coughs - Pj

Jenny “Jen” Orus - Donnie

That big buff wolf guy from the antibody (name unknown) - Donnie

Aiden Repairs - Jay

Honey B. Glad - Casey/Shrubbyfrog

Tebbot - Ollie

ASLI - Casey/Shrubbyfrog

Ally Star Cornelius - (unknown) (apparently not KC)

Wendy “Frosty” Goengetztuff Klepsky - Ame

Chem Mick Ill - Carmen

Chloe Philly - Created by KC, idea by Chaos

Jolly N. Smiley - Created by KC, idea by Chaos

Faerie Bread Confetti - (unknown)

Timmy (Green and pink gator from volume 2)- Cupid

Zimmy (Blue and pink gator from volume 2)- Charlie (not chimera)

Jim Bow (Red and green gator from volume 2) - Casey/Shrubbyfrog

Maddie Jest Dies - Chaos

Mal - Soap

Ame D’nee - Everyone

Susey Peggle - Created by KC, design elements and backstory by Chaos

Preboot Exclusive Characters:

Pyro Ignis - Louise

Bark Salot - someone named Audio

Lunesta - perry99 on DeviantART/luckyisdesi on Instagram

Harris Handerson - (unknown)

[sweettsubaki]

So here’s my thoughts on Dark Nights Metal #2

I have a Mary Sue song but it’s in french so I’m not putting the lyrics here. Just know, I’m humming it right now because Snyder’s writing makes Batman into such a Mary Sue it’s awful.

Also have they really brought Back the Return of Bruce Wayne ? When Tim’s preboot personality isn’t back ?

*sigh* And of Course the two “biggest” (sorry to me it’s still being overrated, the Court of Owls is nice but now there’s the whole CoO international called the Parliament of Owls and the Joker isn’t that interesting when they try to make him the biggest foe of the Bat because there are others which have much more potential. Mostly because he always seem to work better on a small scale). What was I saying? Right so of course the two biggest N52 Batfoe were there to prepare Batman for the SaCriFice -_-.

Honestly, I’m usually all for linking events together but sometimes it’s just facepalm worthy. Seriously the whole issue is “we knew all along you would do this so we did that” to try and make us believe that “everything was planned”...

It honestly just made me sigh and the only reason I didn’t just stop reading is that I promised myself I’d read the WHOLE DC Rebirth before making a (mostly) definite opinion on DC Rebirth.

[tessatechaitea]

Superman #14

Prologue to some kind of crisis of infinite proportions.

You can tell they're from another dimension because they spell list with a y.

• Russian Superman came through the dimensional barrier speaking Russian. The Gatherers come through speaking English. Convenient! • I bet they actually speak "Englysh." • The Gatherers helpfully explain what Prophecy does with the people on the lyst. He processes them! He consumes them! He adds them to his deck! But Superman is all, "I have a punch and a hilarious battle retort for this whole lyst thing! Ready?!"

Ah ha ha ha ha! Get it?!

• The Gatherers don't seem confused by the mention of Santa Claus. I guess they know him! • The Gatherers mention that Communist Superman is from Earth 30. So at least Rebirth is sticking to the Multiversity Guidebook. It's nice to know that the people in charge don't always throw out every good idea they have. • Preboot Superman and Red Superman defeat the Gatherers just before the Multiversity House of Heroes appear. They have Red Racer from Earth 36 and Thunderer from Earth 7 and Obama Superman from Earth 23 and Lady Aquaman from Earth 11 and Mary Marvel from Earth 5 and Mecha-Armor Batman from Earth 16 and Abin Sur Green Lantern from Earth 20 and some Deathstork looking motherfucker from Earth I Don't Know. I'm happy to see Multiversity being picked up and used in Rebirth! • President Superman explains that his team is called Justice League Incarnate. They protect the Multiverse from bad guys like the Anti-Monitor and The Gentry and Magic the Gathering players!

Boom! Nailed them all from the double splash page. Except Machinehead who is from the Marvel Universe Parody world of Earth 8.

• Kenan Kong is captured before the Justice League Incarnate can save him. But Preboot Superman manages to gather a Gatherer! They'll probably vivisect it to find the way to Prophecy's home universe. • Elsewhere, Prophecy is busy constructing his deck. The next card he chooses is Captain Carrot whose power is consumed by Prophecy and Captain Carrot turns into a fuzzy little bunny who can't write comics at all. Probably. Also captured by Prophecy: Kenan Kong of Earth 0; Bizarro Superman of Earth 29; Vampire Superman of Earth 43; Prez Rickard's Pal, Superman of Earth 47; Super-Soldier of Earth 32; O.G. Superman of Earth 2; Lady Superman of Earth 11; Super Fascist of Earth 50; Pirate Superman of Earth 31; Golden Age Superman's super great grandchild of Earth 38; Super-branded Superman of Earth 45; Kingdom Come Superman of Earth 22; and Superman of the Earth One Prestige Format books. That's a lot of Supermen! Oh, and just for information's sake, Captain Carrot is from Earth 26! • There will be a quiz. The Ranking! +1! Yay! I fucking love the Multiverse! DC made the biggest mistake of their lives with Crisis on Infinite Earths, even though it was the most exciting thing ever to be done at the time. The only fault with it is that the superheroes didn't exactly win since they only saved one Earth out of infinity. It was a much better idea (only thought of decades later) to have them save a few more than that.

[sweettsubaki]

fuck off Tim Stan

2. TimDrake fans are the new loki fangirls..

3. It’s nota surprise Damian is ranked top 4 in one-on-one fight by King.

It’s about mycomments on this post which comments Tom King’s List ofstrongest Batfam fighters.Tom King’s Tweet was asked about the 10 most skilled Fighters in the Batfam :1. Cassandra 2. Dick 3. Bruce 4. Damian 5. Kate 6. Helena 7. Jason 8. Duke 9.Stephanie 10. Tim

Here arethe comments in question :

Me :he wasn’t trained by her in N52/Rebirth though so isn’t Tom King right on this?

@spacechirrut(The OP): Even if he’s not in the new continuity he still doesn’t rank lower thanstephanie, duke and damian

Me : True enough, I was mostly commenting on the Lady Shiva thing. For N52 I’d gowith him being an olympic level gymnast with similar skills and level toDick+Battraining (even if not for long, still enough that Bat decided to gethim out there). While Steph only started getting proper training recently.Dami, while experienced is still a kid (should be about the same levelconsidering how much of a Mary Sue Damian has been lately) & Duke no realtraining & only experience

So let’sstart answering.

1. I can’tactually answer that, I have no idea who Tim Stan is. I’m gonna suppose thatit’s an insult ? Though for some people being gay is an insult when really,it’s not so I apologize in advance by not being offended at all.

2. Prettymuch every fandom and characters has Loki fangirls, it’s especially true incomics fandoms (like seriously I’ve been in multiple fandoms and it was rarely that bad). I also find it ironic since Damian suffers from this way morethan Tim has in the latest years.Another Ironic thing is I’m talking about N52!Tim whom I despise more than mostof the Batfam at this point since I’m not into megalomaniacs. I don’t like LexLuthor, I don’t see why I’d like N52/Rebirth!Tim Drake. And in addition to that I’m mad about what DC did and is doing, trying to erasehow Pre-N52!Tim was by trying to advertise that N52/Rebirth!Tim is the samecharacter so, considering all this you probably like him more than I do.Let’s not forget that I pretty much called N52/Rebirth!Tim Drake dumbso I have no idea where you got the idea that I was fangirling about him. Ohwait I didn’t, that was on twitter. Basically Tom King said Tim had his smartsand what I put was that N52/Rebirth!Tim was more of a fighter than a thinkerbecause I have yet to see him really think things through. So that one’s on me.Plus I’m a big defender of seeing characters’ faults and qualities whether you like the characters or not, because I can’t stand character bashing. The fact that I can find as many good and bad points in most of the characters I read/watch is enough, I just differentiate between excusing and explaining a character’s behavior which a lot of people don’t appreciate. (I mean you can ask me what flaw Tim has and I can answer you with as many as I can find in Damian or anyone...I made a full post on Tim’s emotional instability)

3. Itactually is. Damian was trained to be an ASSASSIN, you know what assassinsavoid ? One on One fights. And even if he was trained since childhood, Damianstill lived in a sheltered environment.Damian has stealth and if he gets the first blow right then sure he’s prettymuch won. Because that’s the point of an assassin. One on One fights aren’ttheir things and even if he’s obviously gotten better, it’s still not histhing.In N52, Tim has been training as a gymnast to the point of being Olympic levelsince he was a child (we know that he’s been homeschooled all his life in thiscontinuity). Which is why I say that he has a level similar to Dick’s when hewas his age. Then he went through at least 6 months of Bat Training andgenerally went through a little more hardships with the T.T. than Damian did (andwhile they were very very very badly written he did learn a couple of things inthem). So here Tim and Damian have about 3-4 years of difference which means that Timhas a few years on Damian. With Tim having around a few months on Damian as faras real fighting experience goes.Because again, Damian was trained to be an assassin, where the point is to avoid confrontation to get the job donequickly and seamlessly. Damian has speed sure but it isn’t everything.The reason why I call him a Mary Sue is because since N52, authors have had atendency to make it so he had a lot of knowledge (which depending on the authorhe knows how to actually use or not). But being a genius in one or a couple ofareas is already rare, being a genius in a lot of different theoretical fieldsof knowledge however is pretty much impossible, at least at his age, becauseeven if in N52 his origin story is that he was created to be geneticallyperfect, he’s still growing, his brain isn’t fully formed yet.I also found it more interesting back when the intelligence and knowledge he had (before the reboot) was due to having been Bred to be perfect, that it was the result of years of abuse. Itmade him feel more like an actual person who managed to turn his badexperiences into something good. So I’m sorry if I don’t let him off the hook,I consider him a much stronger character if I don’t. It’s also ridiculous thatthe people who usually love his genius are also often the first ones to use the“he was abused” argument to excuse his behavior when both are heavily linked.

As fortheir Pre-reboot selves in general, Tim was on the field for a little more than 1/3 of Damian’slife. By then end of the preboot Damian’s about 11 while Tim’s about 18, theyhave a 6-7 years age difference. That’s more than HALF of Damian’s age. Timstarted his training not long after he turned 13 and for about a year so that’s4 years of experience + 1 of training + A couple of years of learning Karatebefore all that started so his training didn’t start from nothing. Now Damianwas trained for about 7 years + 1 year of experience on the field (before andafter he became Robin) and he was still a very sheltered child…Plus it wasmade canon that Damian beat Tim because he got him by surprise the first timeand the 2nd Tim didn’t try to defend himself. Then when Tim attackedDamian, Tim was winning and finally the third time Damian attacked Tim, Timdefended himself and won. So in the preboot Tim was stronger. Plus, I mean Damian was trained by Talia, Ra’s and some of their bestassassins’ but Tim was trained by a LOT of different people, including but notlimited to, Bruce & Dick obviously, but also Lady Shiva, Cassandra Cain, 2guys in France whose name I can’t remember (well the 1st was RahulLama in Paris but Tim never got further in that training than the healing arts,while the 2nd died before he could teach Tim his best technique, Ithink he was in Marseille and called the Iron Master or something like that, hewas considered as a big enough person in the Martial Art World that Lady Shivatargeted him on purpose). The people he allied himself with also had a tendencyto teach him a few things every time so he ended up learning a lot ofdifferent fighting styles even if it was only a few notions (think of Black Canary, Connor Hawke or even Helena Bertinelli). He also tended toinclude various forms he had just seen (well he trained to be able to do thembut they weren’t taught to him) to his fighting style. Now I don’t doubt that at equal age Damian would win over Tim because then he’dbe the one with more (or equal in N52/Rebirth) experience and he’d have fully formed muscles (brain orotherwise), but this is not the case.

So Damianbeing put before Tim doesn’t make too much sense.

PS: Also in N52 Jason was trained for quite awhile by the Caste or whichever it was called and was fighting since he was akid as well as his bat training so he definitely shouldn’t be after Helena.

[thegirlfromstationsquare]

Sally gets called a Mary Sue yet she's actually a pretty decent character. I believe it comes from her being warped into a Creator's Pet during the Preboot run.

Shadow often gets compared to Vegeta but the two don't have that much in common. Plus Vegeta did not start the Dark/Evil rival trope.

Dr. Eggman gets called dumb and lame and that he should be more evil (like blowing up the moon isn't evil enough). Eggman is the personification of greed and egotism, but he's also childish and bombastic. He isn't dumb; he just gets upstaged too damn much!

One of the issues I have with Sonic X was that it was the adaptation that kickstarted Amy's flanderization. X misled a whole generation of viewers into thinking Amy was always a stalking, temperamental bitch. But she isn't. Neither is she thirsty for Sonic as her crush is precocious and played for lighthearted comedy. Though I also think it's because of jealous fans who despise Amy for being the closest Sonic has to a love interest, and for NOT acting like them on the internet.

People hate the Sonic series for having too many characters yet I don't see this argument when it comes to say, Star Wars or the Tekken series. Even ancient mythology doesn't get this sentiment. The same people who claim Sonic's friends are useless are making it bad for the rest of us who do want to see these characters in action again and it sucks!

5 Sonic Characters Who Got Bias Hate from Detractors

1 - Sally

2 - Shadow

3 - Dr Eggman

4 - Amy

5 - “Sonic’s shitty friends” in general.