#reylo speculation

[mydearestblue]

the struggle of wanting someone to chat about star wars but understanding that most of the fandom loves to shit all the time about star wars

[kasiopea-star-wars]

May the 4th be with you! Just a quick sign of life from me. I remembered good old times and our speculations about 'one TIE, one seat' and felt nostalgic. Reylo forever! (as for my story, I know I know, it's been a long time, but I will continue it, I promise)

[frumfrumfroo]

I was reading some old Reylo posts and came across a user on here saying that even if Rian Johnson had directed TROS, it still would've been bad, because of interference from higher ups (Rey Skywalker was a consistent theme across the two scripts - but imo, I think that might've just been because they were collectively mad she wasn't a Skywalker lol).

If this isn't an annoying and tiresome question, what do you think? It's hard to speculate but I do find it a bit fun, because there's always been that 'what if' for me that if Rian had done it, maybe it wouldn't have been awful... I guess the implication here is that, was TROS always going to be bad?

I'm ruminating on it a bit because it seems like Disney has kind of segmented the SW fanbases across their shows - Prequel stuff, worldbuilding stuff, OT stuff, and now the romance/Force storyline stuff. All of these combined elements is what made SW so potent, what made something like Reylo so powerful, but it's what makes it a hard brand to sell.

What we heard was that Kennedy asked Rian to do it, but he said he needed more time to write the script and Iger/DLF was unwilling to move the release date. I'm not sure how verified that ever was, but it's the most depressing fucking thing imaginable if true. The same short-term only, immediate profit and your quarterly bonus over the integrity of the company and the franchise which has been destroying Disney as a studio over the last decade or so.

I do think the most blame for tros must ultimately rest with Iger, but it's not like that absolves JJerio from responsibility for how bad it actually is.

I have answered this exact question before, and speculated on related stuff a few times, but unfortunately I haven't been able to find that post for you.

To me, if we learnt anything from DotF being a thing, it's that there was never anyone at the wheel, plotgate was totally true, and the directors were allowed to do whatever they wanted. If Rian had been making the third film from the start, I don't think they would have tried to impose any major story beats on him. The reason it became such a shitshow was The Book of Henry came out and they realised Colin's script was totally unacceptable way too late.

And once the can of meddling was open and you're back to JJ 'no thoughts, head empty' Abrams as a workman director, the suits were basically writing epIX with Terrio's incest fever dreams as connective tissue. They kept elements from Colin's version because they were trying to save time and use as much of the work which had already been done as possible. There was no commitment to any of those ideas, it's just incompetence and with no direction or ideas of their own, they were making a reddit checklist to try to please the whiners rather than writing any actual story.

Like, none of this would have happened if Rian were involved, because Rian would have written an actual story.

SW is mythology and very few people working at DLF seem to have ever understood that or have any idea what it means. Disney has segmented it because that's what they know, they want to have different product to sell to different demographics to maximise saturation and profit. That's their business model. They don't understand the foundation, the Saga itself, and its universal appeal, they seem content to let that stay dead and focus on compartmentalising and pandering to smaller, separate audiences.

[perfectfangirl]

Please understand this in itself is not ship hate itself, I couldn't care less what people ship, just mere observation. But are Kylo and Rey not related? Maybe that is why people were butthurt about it. While Lucy and Cooper are not, so people won't bat an eye.

hello, op! no, kylo ren and rey are not related. but in the beginning, it was something a lot of antis [or just cautious people from the *last* time this almost happened 😅] were speculating on. kylo ren is the grandson of anakin. rey is a little harder to explain but rey is of palpatine [by way of technicality of the force in relation to her parents]. if you squint she could be interpreted as his granddaughter but truly she's like the child of a clone almost and not really a "natural" child of his by any means. all this to say, the skywalker and palpatine canonically has not crossed streams in the cinematic universe before this for there to be relation of the two. trust me when i say i've been in fandom trenches with [canonical] consanguineous ships and the writers definitely hated all us equally in the end so lmao. i'll have you know op, and you're not gonna believe this but. lucy has canonically been depicted as having a relationship with her cousin, chet, in the show. people are way less angry about that, actually rotf but any who people hated reylo primarily because it was enemies to lovers type trope and there was lots of fighting and moral questionability going on not unlike ghoulcy [typical star wars romance 💀] anyways, i didn't interpret this question as ship hate, i'm glad you asked it, actually ❤️

[perrydowning]

Hello! I just wanted to say that I read all of your fanfiction on AO3 about a year or so ago and I haven’t stopped thinking about it since. It was the catalyst to me reigniting my love for reading. Since then I’ve read countless other fics and also 79 books just last year! (Of course many of them Reylo related or inspired.) But it was your stories that really got me back into reading! So I guess I just wanted to say thank you and tell you what an impact you’ve had on me!

Thank you, so very much.

I think this is why fic matters to me so much. We found a way to write the stories we want to read. We kinda always do? There’s a reason those of us on the fringe created speculative fiction.

Being reminded that my writing has made a difference to some folks is such a gift. It means a great deal to me that you took the time to tell me.

💜🌈💜

Perry

[st-just]

My cursed femdom-loving take on Reylo is "but wouldn't it be so hot if you flipped the genders?" Or hell, even if you just flipped Kylo's gender. Same way I like to speculate about how Marvel fans, male AND female, would react to a female Kilgrave (and that reaction would probably change depending whether you genderbent Jessica too).

Y'know I'm not sure f/f get less discourse than het ones about being toxic and unhealthy, really. Different kinds maybe, but if anything the discourse:shipping ratio seems significantly higher.

Hypothetical fem!Kylo and masc!Rey would be a fascinating sociological experiment tho. Can't really think of anything analogous in mainstream media (unsurprisingly bc like, patriarchy) to compare it to.

[nooblord9001]

🔥 TCoA&L

Hot Take amongst The TCoA&L Fandom: Coffincest does not work as a "they're both awful and deserve eachother" dynamic. Between the two, Ashley is the abuser. Just flat-out. If you're gonna ship 'em, you either have to recharacterize Ashley Graves to not be abusive towards Andrew (which I'm speculating is going to be her character arc going forward in the text) and instead write her as merely a sociopathic enabler of his incestuous attraction, or you have to accept that the dynamic is going to be the less-popular (and maybe more problematic?) "Yes, he deserves better, but he doesn't want better / doesn't want to be saved."

Hot Take amongst this friend circle: That being said, I don't hate Coffincest as much as I should. It's an objectively awful ship that represents everything wrong with modern storytelling and breaks bread with the absolute worst of the worst (Reylo, Catradora, the Hunter x [Insert other TOH character here] ships, arguably anything to do with Twilight), but because the canonical execution is so shallow and so playing-it-safe and so exactly-what-you'd-expect that Lily's core complaint ended up being the relatively merciful "eh, it didn't commit to the bit" rather than joining the collective backlash the game was getting, I'm somehow able to stomach it, which-- ngl? is fucking hysterical.

[mermaidsirennikita]

The Cait Corrain situation is entirely Cait's fault, but I can't help but think about how it indicates how uneducated some writers are about the realities of publishing and what is "good" versus what is "bad".

Cait, based on screenshots compiled of what she said and screenshots she gave of what "Lilly" (the person Cait made up and was pretending to be to take blame off herself) was insecure about her advance and the marketing of her book. She clearly thought she was at some kind of disadvantage, which--along with plain old jealousy and cruelty--led her to review bomb other books (like, to a delusional extent imo--giving Thea Guanzon's The Hurricane Wars wasn't going to stop that well-marketed book with a big built-in fandom thanks to the extremely popular fic it was adapted from, from being successful; she also review-bombed Ali Hazelwood, one of the most popular contemporary romance authors right now, who again writes contemporaries that didn't have much crossover appeal with Cait's books anyway).

Things in Cait's advantage that many, many other authors don't have:

A) Cait is a white woman, which according to publishing trends and also, I don't know, reality, is automatically an advantage.

B) Cait had a $75K advance. I don't know much about Cait's series plans, I don't know her deal, this could've been anticipated to stretch over multiple books. But advances, especially right now, are not FABULOUS for most authors. This, based on what I've seen, was pretty solid coming from the imprint publishing Cait's book, for an adult fantasy with some romance (perhaps enough to market as "romantasy", whatever that is). Which, by the way, is having a bit of a moment, so that was in her favor too. $75K, meant to stretch over a year or more, most likely, is not exactly "quit your day job" money. But the typical author doesn't quit their day job, especially not early. I can think of some authors a lot of people would consider pretty successful who still maintain part or full time jobs, often coming from dual income households.

C) Cait was known (positively) by the reylos, who've had a good bit of success in making books sell.

D) Cait was friends with successful authors like, again, Thea Guanzon, who blurbed her book and met her in person. Having a successful author invested in your work matters, especially when they share your genre space. See: Ali Hazelwood blurbing reylo books. It can help a lot and made it even clearer that this book could potentially appeal to reylos at least.

The reality is that marketing issues with trad books stem to the publisher, almost always. I don't know why some trad books are pushed more than others; I can speculate, but I don't think a lot of authors know the exact formula either. Marketing books is hard. But Goodreads rankings aren't going to make or break your book. Tbh, as much as GR and Amazon are connected these days, Amazon probably has a larger effect on your book making it or breaking it than GR (and it's harder to review bomb on Amazon, especially when the book hasn't come out yet).

It's just... so ugly and so stupid.

[kalinara]

I did think I would feel a bit more satisfied when an actor finally confirmed what, I think, most of us knew about Kylo Ren's intended arc in the Sequel Trilogy.

Blah, blah, the redemption arc wasn't supposed to happen. Kylo was supposed to be a villain throughout. Where's that Captain Holt vindication gif when you want it?

I'd agree, personally, that it would have made for a better movie if Kylo had remained the big bad. Adam Driver, I think, is the one who really missed out. I feel like he missed out on his chance to go full out, balls to the wall evil overlord. He'd have killed it, I suspect. And I say that as someone who isn't particularly a fan of the guy.

I do think though I get why they went with a half-assed redemption arc, though. I don't think it had anything to do with the Reylos (the kiss maybe, but I'd like to think they're smart enough to realize that rabid shippers generally don't go for the romantic - die for your love type of ending. At least not if the hot guy is doing the dying...)

I think it's because of Carrie Fisher's death.

They'd said for a while that the third movie was supposed to be Leia's, in the way that TFA was Han's, and TLJ was Luke's. Whether or not this made you optimistic probably depends on how much you liked the fates of those characters in those movies. I didn't hate them, personally.

I'm not going to speculate too hard on what the original story would have been. I certainly can imagine some pretty epic stuff with Princess Leia as the Big Good set against her son as the Big Bad. But...well...when you lose one of your primary actors before you get a chance to actually film anything...well, that limits what you can do.

I suppose that's why I'm willing to give Rise of Skywalker a bit more slack than a lot of folk. They were kind of stuck. Ultra-evil Kylo Ren is a more satisfying story with the set up they had, but it's also a tragedy. For what it's worth, the man does have a mother, who will grieve him if no one else does.

Except...we can't actually film the grieving, can we? We can't film the confrontation between despairing mother and lost son - whatever resolution was likely to happen. We can, at least, use some lost footage to TRY to build the relationship between Leia and Rey that needs to happen for that side of the story, but even then, we'll need Force Ghost Luke to help with the more reactive parts.

And of course, they need to write Leia herself out as gracefully as possible. In a way that doesn't require a lot of new footage and still gives the character a sense of accomplishment. Otherwise, you might as well have just blown her up with Hosnian Prime.

So...half assed redemption arc. With not-exactly-force-ghost Han to help there. I do feel like they could have done a better job with Kylo's part there. You know, made it look like he was at least interested in doing something OTHER than violating a woman's mind and terrorizing her for a good third of the movie. But well. No one's ever completely happy with things.

I don't know. In the end, I think the folks behind the Sequel Trilogy did what they could to give us a final, reasonably satisfying conclusion. There were fuck ups along the way (see: Finn, see: Poe. Though that fuckery started with TLJ, IMO) but, I think if we sat down and watched all nine movies in a row, and got to Rise of Skywalker's closing scene...I think we would end it feeling like we'd reached a workable ending to the Skywalker Saga.

Probably because we'd be too exhausted to notice the plotholes at that point. C'est la vie.

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Please do the movie ships with the worst chemistry. I would like to see the world burn. 🥺

I will not include romantic comedies because pretty much all of them are actually terrible people in those movies and the dysfunction is kind of why the movie takes so long to work.

But if I had to pick which Canon couple had the worst Chemistry I had ever seen. I will have to pick two.

The first is Scott Lang and Hope Pym in the First Antman movie

Because my goodness, that was the most out of no where forced romance I have ever seen and it didnt feel right. Its not awful but its just so... out of left field that I was actually surprised. There were NO hints that there was romantic chemistry until the scene where the dad walked in on them. And I am still like wtf.

I havent seen the sequels so I dont know if it gets better, but to this day, I am still confused by it.

and for the second one. Its Rey and Kylo ren of Reylo from Star Wars

The most unbelievable thing in the Rise of skywalker wasnt Palpatine some how being alive, or even the fleet of star destroyers being beaten in the dumbest way possible. It was the writing that thought that having them kiss was a good idea. I know the fandom speculated about them being together, I was not one of those people. I still stand by the disney sequels being the biggest tragedy to star wars franchise and this was just the cherry on top of that Crap sundae.

[i-found-you-justine-time]

Why do I even try, you don't believe me anyway.

But fine.

The Hugo and Varian from the pictures I posted aren't from Vat7k, that's before this AU came to be.

Look at their clothes and hair, these are Varian from season 1, 14 years old, and Hugo from DnD, 24 years old.

It's not Vat7k.

I hear that you're saying that because of what their designs look like, because of what their hair looks like and what their clothes look like, that they must be their original ages. But saying that without any other context is not fact, that's speculation. I would need you to provide dates, the original postings of those drawings, or quotes from the creators. There are other more likely possibilities. Firstly, that could just be Anna's style. That's how she draws the characters. Secondly, she might have just assumed at that point that Varian's character design would stay the same. That's also speculation. However, I have a quote from Kay about their ages. (Hopefully this screenshot works) Kay and Anna intended for them to be a year apart. So it stands to reason that when they're drawn together they are their 7k ages. More importantly, the vast majority of the people who participate in the 7k fandom assume when they see this art that the two of them are their 7k ages. The vast majority of the people who write and draw Varigo do so with the intention that Hugo and Varian are about a year apart in age. It's not an age gap ship because no one who ships Varigo gives them an age gap. No, not even the creators unless you can provide written proof from the horse's mouth. I'm sorry that you feel uncomfortable enough with Varigo that you feel you need to try to make the people who ship it uncomfortable too. But from where I stand all you're doing is assuming the worst and taking that assumption as fact, and using that to make yourself feel spiteful enough to try to bring more people into your way of thinking. Look, I get it. You don't like Varigo. And that's fine. It's how I feel about Reylo Star Wars fans. However, aside from the occasional quip to friends I leave those people alone. They're free to be wrong. If you disagree with Varigo fans then leave us alone and give us the freedom to be "wrong" too. Go enjoy the ships you do enjoy. Post art and fic for them instead. All the best.

[silverstar15]

why reylo got hate from fans?

it was pretty nuanced. It really depends on what movie was out at the time.

I don't want to bury my blog with speculation about other people's opinions when every person has a preference on storytelling. Especially when I don't care whether they like it. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Is it childish to send hate to people for not liking the way they interpreted a story? Absolutely. But I don't agree with every person who ships reylo and I don't ship it for the same reasons. I don't expect every person who doesn't ship it to agree with one another either or to come at it with the same motives.

[bookishfeylin]

Same finnrey anon. Ajjajahahs they so did poor Finn dirty. And yeah I saw some of the John Boyegas harassment (poor man, but some of his responses to them were pretty hilarious), but I never knew about that awful and disgusting name calling. I can't believe anyone would call Finn/John such things, and all for a ship or his race? Gross! People need fucking help.

Yeah, it was horrible. That's not to say that Reylos, other sequel trilogy characters and ships, and other cast members didn't get hate as well because the Star Wars fandom is incredibly toxic, but Reylos made the unique decision to be racist and wildly antiblack in their hate of the character/actor. It started with them turning around the allegation that Reylo was abusive and claiming Finn was abusive, actually, and it spiraled into "Black man bad" from there and then into, uh, more blatant racism. Like the name calling. There's a lot to be said about how Kylo was found to be relatable, worthy of redemption, secretly good, and deserving of being the lead despite his being a, uh, genocidal maniac whilst Finn was viewed as evil because--and I kid you not--he grabbed Rey's hand in one scene in The Force Awakens. And yes, I like villains, and I am opposed to any kind of harassment over ships and whatnot, but the hypocrisy and racism was something else. *mutters about an essay about the villification of Black characters vs the woobification of white villains incoming* The same "ship and let ship! Fiction doesn't equal reality!" people suddenly decided that only applied to white characters, and checked people who felt otherwise by being racist towards Finn and John Boyega. They don't genuinely believe ship and let ship, they only feel that way for white characters and ships and have no qualms about being just as bad as the "antis" they claim to oppose, and Reylo exemplifies this. They chose to be nasty, chose to be racist, and for that I will forever side eye them. Most Black fans still do. Aside from @diversehighfantasy there's also @rootbeergoddess , @positively--speculative, @blackfilmmakers , @lkeke35 and many others.

There was just... a lot of nonsense, and many Black fans left the fandom. There's a reason why, across all fandoms, most "fandom moms" are white, and it's not a good one.

Edit: Also- @shewhotellsstories and @starwarsfandomh8speopleofcolor

[narcopharmacist]

As fillers for my days when I don't read the current fic I'm still into right now entitled Between Dreams & Temptations by tasogareban (because I have been busy with studying and school shit that I think of reading fanfic a distraction, + my anxiety won't let me read because reading fanfics is a ME time), I watched video essays about Reylo, and about the last episode of thr sequel I have yet to watch (because I have not finished the aforementioned fanfic, and this fic is set after between TFA and TLJ so I don't want to cloud my mind with TROS, knowing how it ends already).

The first Reylo video essay I watched was entitled Reylo Theory Explained to the Haters | Why Rey and Kylo Ren Together Makes Sense by The Den of Nerds. It was an OK take, and he said he took his content inspiration from a 3 part series by Vincent Vendetta, so I went ahead and watched those as well. I liked Vincent Vendetta's videos more, and these videos were released after the first movie, episode 8, The Force Awakens. When I read the comments I think people were just speculating / predicting about Reylo happening in the next movie. It was a really good watch. I can't believe Star Wars official posters/merch hinted so much Reylo 😭

Links!

Reylo Explained Part 1 - Vincent Vendetta

Reylo Explained Part 2

Reylo Explained Part 3

---

Last night, I watched what I thought was a video talking about Reylo in TROS, but she talked about TROS in general.

Video title: Oh no! The Rise of Skywalker was real bad :( by Jenny Nicholson

This was hilarious 😂 And I recently just contemplated about whether watching TROS would be even worth my time. The way she talked about it the story felt like it's going to be just a wild goose chase (with the map and Palpatine). It sounds like the movie's premise is really bad.

The comments on the video are so funny tho!

Who are you?

I'm Rey.

Rey who?

Reydio GAGA

---

I already know what happens to Reylo, well, most especially Ben, so I feel like if I watch TROS I'll just have to take it with a grain of fucking salt, and just watch it for the Reylo bond scenes and the kiss.

I've already bookmarked fix-it fics post-TROS for Reylo 😭😭🥴

---

Currently I'm watching Reylo: A Complicated History by Joe Brennan. This was released in 2021, so quite fresh from the last movie of the sequel.

---

I am also going crazy about Adam Driver edits on Tiktok like I cannot stop thinking about Ben Solo like 😮‍💨

This was the edit that started it all for me. Hearing Kali Uchis reminded me of the song she had with Tyler the Creator, and now that song is something I dedicate to Reylo 😭

Song: See You Again by Tyler the Creator

Kali's part:

Can I get a kiss?

And can you make it last forever?

I said I'm 'bout to go to war (Uh-huh)

And I don't know if I'ma see you again

Can I get a kiss? (Can I?)

And can you make it last forever? (Can you?)

I said I'm 'bout to go to war (I'm 'bout to)

And I don't know if I'ma see you again

[redrascal1]

SW fans on the Cantina Forums are speculating that if, in the forthcoming Rey film, Finn will have any children with Rey?

I doubt it. TROS removed Rose (still mad about that) but introduced Jannah.

Daisy Ridley stated unequivocally that 'Rey didn't need a boyfriend.'

But, there again maybe they will. Personally I couldn't care less. I dislike both characters. I also lost respect for Boyega post his 'lay the pipe' comment.....curiously his female fans don't even seem to see how repugnant it was, the same fans that dissed reylo as 'toxic'.

Part of me is pissed that Boyega may get what HE wants after his revolting twitter behaviour....but there again, TROS turned Rey into someone I don't recognise.

So I've decided that Finn and his pipe are welcome to Rey Palpwalker. And their fans are welcome to SW post Kylo/Ben.

Hopefully they'll have deep pockets.

[bedcorpse]

the fact that reylos still think people hate them over “ship discourse” when it’s actually because they were evil and racist as shit to john boyega and (as a lesser crime) were just annoying and hard to avoid between like. 2017 and 2019. like girl idc that you have trash tastes i care that you erased finn to make kylo ren a white version of him and then called john boyega a racial slur when he had the audacity to make a mildly sexual joke (meanwhile y’all were zooming in on daisy ridley’s completely flat stomach after she openly admitted to sw fans destroying her self esteem and speculating on some weird force baby. also throne room sex meta sorry for reminding you all of that.)