#seriously why are you watching the show or engaging with the fandom

[cherrysnax]

the cocomelon fandom really didn’t like that post

[sepublic]

Do you hate Belos' fans?

If you want my honest, nearly unadulterated thoughts? Well, hopefully this is the last I'll speak on the subject. But in regards to the question; In theory? No. In practice? Well...

They've ignored the actual onscreen characters, dynamics, and themes that the show focused on in favor of building this elaborate fanon and AUs and fics and art of their dead white guys who were never meant to be the focus, hyped themselves up on this entirely offscreen dynamic, and then when the finale didn't deliver on their expectations they gnashed their teeth and turned on the show as a whole because they never cared about the show, just their white favoritism-fueled fanon for it. Because apparently their engagement with TOH hinged entirely on Wittebros, which makes me wonder how they even began watching the actual show to begin with.

These same people viciously turned on the actual protagonists because they never appreciated them as their own characters but as devices to prop up Belos and the Wittebro dynamic, so when they couldn't fulfill that purpose, they were deemed useless and badly written because these people who wrote essays about Belos being left-handed blatantly ignored Luz's explicit onscreen arc and then had the audacity to be baffled by the finale's narrative decisions, and just dismiss Luz as 'badly written' because they refuse to actually engage with Luz for Luz's sake and appreciate her as the main protagonist, who stands more than easily on her own without having to rely on Belos.

These people just genuinely can't seem to comprehend why the show would celebrate this compassionate brown girl over their racist white man, so they went out of their way to disparage Luz, downplay her and her achievements, act like they're spewing some hot takes by claiming Belos is a more interesting character, using whatever convenient excuses they can find; But while the excuse always changes for the situation, in the end it's always because fandom just looooves their bigoted white guys.

So then you have crappy AUs and redemption fics that lightheartedly torture Luz at her expense to explore Belos, or reduce Luz to Belos' sidekick that he secretly cares about, and/or portray Luz's anger towards him as some obstacle towards his ~healing and redemption~ (and you don't need the finale's explicit message to understand why this is so grossly tasteless because fandom hates women and PoC, especially when the two intersect as one character). It's genuinely abhorrent how Belos fans just choose to undermine the entire point of the finale and the show and even Belos himself for the sake of their made-up fanon version.

Like maybe if they actually paid attention to the show and engaged with it on a general level, I might take their complaints a little more seriously; But it's telling how Belos fans just ignored characters who weren't directly relevant/connected to the Wittebanes, until they were. So it's why I can't take it seriously when they disparage the crew for having different priorities because you can just tell they refuse to consider other angles, or go in with the predisposed notion of hating it. The Belos fandom hyped themselves up, and then blamed the crew for leading them on instead of accepting that their speculation on a mysterious character was wrong.

In fact, they're in such refusal to accept this, that some of them even go out of their way to peddle the stupidest behind-the-scenes theories I've ever seen; Particularly, the one arguing that Belos was originally meant to be a sympathetic and tragic villain and was written as such during the first half of the show's run... But when the crew opted to include the Collector in response to TOH being shortened, they just transferred all of Belos' sympathetic qualities to the Collector and left him a pure evil antagonist.

Because obviously, the crew never considered writing two sympathetic villains, right??? It's not as if we don't already have two former members of the Emperor's Coven who unlearn their abuse yet still have different personalities and backstories and dynamics and storylines. No, Belos was supposed to be sympathetic but they deemed that redundant with the Collector, so it's the Collector's fault and it's time to disparage their writing out of jealous resentment.

The criticisms just come across as in bad faith; These people aren't actually interested in critiquing the show. It's all insincere when they discuss how Luz needed to understand how people can become villains (they ignore her dynamic with the Collector and other characters), or how villains need to be humanized because yadda-yadda. It's not because they actually care about these things, it's just a convenient justification for why their white guy deserved better.

Because these viewers are otherwise more than willing to suspend their disbelief and analyze all of the little implications for Belos to understand him, but then refuse to exercise even a little imagination in discussing characters like Luz or the Collector, because it's easier to just dismiss it as inconsistent writing that didn't have any planning behind it. Because they resent these characters for 'taking away' from Belos' spotlight, and with baffling confidence declare any defenses or explanations of the point they're missing as 'stupid takes'.

They talk of how Belos needed to be humanized and have his motives explained, but they were; It's just that these motives weren't framed in a flattering light so that pisses off their sadboi narrative of someone who's afraid of being wrong for the sake of others, rather than only for the sake of his ego (Note that Belos doesn't hallucinate the witches and demons he murdered because he still doesn't care about them). I don't think we can have a meaningful discussion about how Belos was written without first acknowledging a lot of things, such as what is even your stake in trying to argue stuff like how he should've been able to survive, or joking about the protagonists being too dumb to finish Belos off???

I just find it telling how when people criticize how Willow and Gus were handled, or how the Collector went off into space at the end, I can actually understand where they're coming from... But with Belos fans, I'm just utterly baffled to the point where I genuinely wonder how they can think this and if I stepped into some alternate timeline. They claim fandom is guilty of the puritanism that Belos himself displays, but it's not about 'problematic' characters (I'm quite the fan of villains myself), but rather fandom double standards in weeping for Belos while demonizing characters like Lilith as 'getting off easy'.

People understand perfectly that Odalia is meant to be viewed under the lens of a capitalist upper-class suburban white woman who views her family as a status symbol, but then see how Belos is a satire of right-wing conservative white supremacists and the like and just sorta... sweep it under the rug in favor of re-framing Belos as a victim of these mentalities who was brainwashed, rather than someone who gleefully embraced them (regardless of any downsides he may have encountered) because the ideology ultimately benefitted his sense of self.

At first I reasoned that the favoritism towards Belos over Odalia is because one is more fleshed out and whatnot; But after seeing how Belos fans turned on Luz and other characters, I actually do suspect a lot of it is misogyny. It's not as if fandom has ever relied on canon to flesh out faves, these people are proof enough. I remember being baffled by the intense energy there was for Wittebros after Yesterday's Lie aired, wondering where that same energy was for other aspects of the show; At the time I didn't think much of it and figured it just wasn't for me, no judgment, but now? Ugh.

The lack of self-awareness for fandom's obvious habit and tendency with white dudes is just utterly baffling. I'd apply Hanlon's Razor to it, even; Sufficiently advanced ignorance is indistinguishable from malice! These people prove they're more than clever enough to understand and engage with it on a sincere level, but they don't because they don't want to because they're just salty!!!

In the end, it's all just fandom entitlement; Someone else compared Belos fans to those for Kylo Ren and Billy Hargroves and I can't un-see it now. The key difference is that the source material for Belos didn't bend over backwards to coddle and make everything about him; Which means canon didn't feed the beast, and that led to Belos fans not being as obnoxious as the aforementioned groups.

But their portrayal of this guy really is the same as people who put Kyle Ron in flower crowns. It's just this watered-down milquetoast dude they made up in their heads. And without any self-awareness they blame canon and the writers for not adhering to their personal RP headcanons for the character. These are the same people I've seen complain that the show didn't portray Belos' grief over murdering Luz, because it's the whole Oppenheimer effect where if we talk about white people's violence towards minorities, we always gotta make it about the white guy's angst and guilt while brushing past the actual victims and their feelings! Because you know what?

It's clear how much this fandom sleeps on Luz! She's such an incredibly compelling character, the show really is about her, and yet people sleep so much on her depth to talk about others! This is not exclusive to Belos fans, but I find them particularly symptomatic of this problem. Because again, we all know from fandom history (in addition to the explicit onscreen writing) that any claims of Luz not being interesting, or annoying, or flat, is just wrong; And even if it were somehow true, it's not as if that has ever stopped fandom before.

They'll see a female protagonist who is compassionate and say that nice characters are boring, unlike their guy; They'll see a problematic woman and call her an irredeemable bitch, while lamenting how nice characters are underrated and misunderstood as 'basic'. It's all the same. This kind of veers into my complaint about the fandom in general sleeping on Luz despite her being so fascinating, and it's abundantly clear that it's the racism and/or misogyny, maybe even ableism because intersectionality exists!!!

That's why you have people sweeping over Luz's trauma from Belos; They'll obsess over Hunter's because it's more 'intense' or whatever but again, that's never stopped anyone. People deeply understand, Belos fans especially, the psychological layers to Hunter's trauma and how Belos wormed his way inside his nephew's head... But with Luz, they just sorta dumb down their dynamic to whacky enemies on equal footing at times.

There isn't any of that same weight, that same appreciation, for how Luz suffered, and so there's none of the tact, none of the consideration of how they're portraying this, even in jokes or AUs; And that's why people have no problem with making Luz the bad guy for not understanding Belos, even though she did try, and got so terribly hurt for it. And she didn't even need to try to not owe Belos anything. It's why people make cutesy AUs where Belos is Luz's father figure, which is incredibly gross given everything Belos stands for and what he did to her; Because they just don't care about Luz's trauma, nor how gross and creepy Belos was to her. Because they don't care about Luz unless she can prop up Belos.

That's why you have comics taking a scene from Turning Red about a girl of color coming to a new understanding over her immigrant mother's pressures and expectations, and making it about Luz sympathizing with Belos. That's why you have people taking the heartbreaking moment between Camila and Luz in Yesterday's Lie, and making it about Philip and Caleb. It's why you have people insisting more on the parallels than what the two are opposite in, because they're oh so eager to mold Luz into Belos' (and Hunter’s, for that matter) platonic Manic Pixie Dream Girl, and then get angry and lash out at her when she doesn't fit their placid, palatable role; Just like Belos.

Seriously, Belos fans have a fucking victim complex and seem to genuinely think they're being subversive, oppressed underdogs for liking the violent white guy and writing essays about how he's actually femme-coded and neurodivergent and whatnot, and actually in deep pain and misery and needs guidance!!! They think they're oppressed for engaging with darker content and not for fandom racism and white favoritism and just being annoying, so then they come up with things like #BelosFansTakeOver like it's a fucking pride flag. They're Snape fans.

And as I've said before; A part of me was, earlier on, confused about all of the hype and energy. And I think people are drawn to that sort of energy because they see people having fun, and want to participate; So yes, I myself DID end up buying into it, at least a bit. Honestly I think I also had the problem of not fully letting go of my sympathetic Belos speculation, AKA what I personally wanted and not necessarily what fit the narrative the writers were going for; And so I ended up being a bit obtuse in misinterpreting some moments that are obvious in hindsight.

And I think it's partly because, again, the Belos fandom at the time still seemed so reasonable and chill, because they were still hinging on the expectation that their fixation would pay off, and thus had no reason (yet) to resent the show and its focus on Luz and co., and could even be charitable in their interpretation and portrayal of these characters; They liked Luz plenty until they blamed the show for throwing Belos under the bus for her sake, and then proceeded to do the fucking reverse.

And like. I DID actually consider why the finale was written the way it was, and apply that in reorganizing my understanding of Belos; Apologies if I'm patting myself on the back but like. It becomes so much more fun when you work with things. It's baffling because these people are more than willing to put in the thought for wondering why X is a thing with Belos, but it has to be in this way that flatters their blorbo that they demand.

And some of these people certainly seem chill at first, but again I think part of the reason for that is because, like a lot of stuff in regards to fandom racism and misogyny and the like, they don't really seem to register what they're doing as aggravating, so they aren't bothered by it. But even when they are being 'calm' and chill, the way they portray the show through their redemption AUs and whatnot just reveals how they think, because they might not be approaching from some place of intentional malice, but from a willful 'ignorance is bliss' perspective. They haven't been on the receiving end of these constant fandom issues and then wonder why people are getting so heated over something reflective of real-life biases, when fiction was supposed to be a reprieve from all that; So they just act like it’s fandom stans needing to go touch grass.

So these fans come across as soft and comfort-oriented, and then in the same breath express concern over what a terrible person Luz is or whatever without any awareness, because some people are just way too lax about their fandom bigotry. Sorry but if you actually cared about these characters and their themes, you would realize that Camila would rightfully have only murder in mind towards the man who physically and emotionally scarred her daughter, and Masha -whose sole justified takeaway from the Wittebane story was that Philip just fucking sucks- wouldn't tolerate Belos' crap.

And you know what also really fucking sucks? I actually really enjoy Belos as a character and narrative, always have and still do; So it's agonizing to see people get him so wrong, in addition to everything else. In theory, I don't mind the concept of liking Belos, and there are still some people I'm chill with over this! But holy hell I've seen so many Belos fans and Belos fans particularly post all sorts of madness, to the point where I've developed this Pavlovian association between Belos fandom and psychic damage.

If someone likes Wittebros it's pretty much all they post/reblog about. I instinctively brace myself every time I come across such a blog, and I often end up being proven right. It used to be a part of the fandom I could enjoy but now it just feels so hostile towards canon’s themes and celebration, and it’s aggravating when people try to portray the fandom’s callout of this behavior as ‘both sides’ being toxic when what we’re discussing is fandom racism and misogyny, as well as a general refusal to engage with themes that contributes in a negative feedback loop to poor reading comprehension.

I guess I'm so passionate because I've been holding onto these grievances for so long, keeping it bottled for the sake of keeping the peace, but now I'm just tired so why the hell not? It's all reflective of my issues with fandom in general so it's still relevant even if you don't care for TOH. Maybe I should devote my energy into something more useful, I dunno. But as I said, I guess this whole thing is just reflective of societal bigotry and biases, and the lack of reading comprehension as a whole. At least I got the chance to vent!

[not-goldy]

No matter what Jk does some ppl will. never. be satisfied. They will always twist what he says, what he does, especially when it comes to Jimin. It will never be enough. Like, he could literally kiss him on cam they’d still say he wasn’t into it, didn’t French kiss him but just gave him a quick peck or whatever so it means he was just doing the bare minimum blah blah blah. They could even fuck for the whole world to see they’d manage to scrutinize his thrusts and the number of sweat drops falling down his back to say he was just doing it out of curtosy lmao. If Jk and Jikook don't satisfy you why keeping up with him? Seriously, why do ppl are so keen to waste their time like this if they don’t enjoy the content they’re engaging with? 2024 is right around the corner y’all, time to check your priorities… life is short, donˋt waste it. As for me, I'm so relieved these two will have each other for the next 18 months! I can't wait for the Jikook Show, it’s going to be epic, I don’t think we’re ready lmao

Forget them, they just trolling 🤣 🤣🤣🤣🤣

This what they sent in 😹😹😹😹😹😹😹😹

The jealousy and envy disguised as criticism.

They are just like Tuktukkers. They deliberately act blind and dumb and belittle JK's efforts and contributions so it's easier for them to hate on him.

"Jk couldn't attend Face promos" said with a dumb smug face in the same sentence as "just because he sings all JMs songs on his live- to promote his music to his unique fans, boost his reach, generate sales from the free ad and marketing- doesn't mean he supports him."

Naaa he should have sent a coffee truck that makes JM no money, sent food and flowers- that makes JM no money in sales for his Album whatsoever- That would have been so much better if he wanted to support JMs Album than him actually promoting his songs on live

Same people who complain Army doesn't buy Jms songs or stream his music. Same persons.

Jungkook is a sold out King and people will die to have him promote their content on his highly engaging lives- but nooooo that's not an asset to them when it comes to supporting Jm. Nope.

Even though he's shown time and again that's his way of supporting those he loves. His brother starts a business and he jumps right on live wearing his merch. Did he not get in trouble for that?

Jimin does a documentary and who shows up out of the blue to support him? Mic'd and all

Jimin is practicing for his MV and who shows up to watch and support him then too?

They call Jimin daddy but won't get off JKs Dick.

Hobi is adorable and we all want a sunshine like him- but he's so supportive Jimin chose Jungkook to do MS with 🥺

Talk of being there for Jimin🤭

And it's crazy they keep craving what others have when those others also want what Jungkook is and does for Jimin. You think Tuktukkers would be superimposing Taes face on Jikook moments if they were happy with Tuktukks dynamics?

Flowers and food- when we all know who is constantly eating with Jimin, pressuring Jimin to go out and eat with him, the one who BTS themselves call Jimin's chef,

the one doing cooking shows with him is not Hobi

It's almost as if they don't watch any content from BTS other than snippets from Twitter.

Watch Sope, Bon Voyage, Run, Episodes, lives- in full not the edits sir.

We here have a whole Ramen joke running in the Fandom because that's all JK keeps saying he eats with JM. The food buddies. Whenever Jungkook posts food you'd find JM in the comments somewhere reminiscing.

Those flowers and food gave him strength- bitch bye.

When it comes to gift giving, bts have ever complained the one person Jungkook gifts is Jimin prompting them to tease him that Jimin was his favorite out of the group.

Nevermind the snow block he went out to the mountains and brought back for him. We know in this Fandom Jungkook tones things down with Jimin when it comes onto gifts cos he'd kiss and tell and act a fool. It's common Fandom knowledge so I know he is not trying to imply Jungkook does nothing for JM.

That's toxic solo street slang rooted in fiction.

Watch content for yourself and spare us the rubbish.

[lily-orchard]

I found your most recent video on Steven Universe and some of the things you said about the nature of fandoms struck a chord with me on a very persistent topic worth discussing. I'm not a SU fan, I tried to watch the show as an adult and I found other children shows far more entertaining. It needs to be said, there is something disturbing about adults who watched a show as children, infantilize themselves and revolve their entire identity over it. I've met 35-year-olds online with SU pfp's who cannot grasp real-world politics or engage with mature topics because their approach to real-world problems is based on a show they watched as kids. As soon as you discussed Utena and how fandoms remember a show it reminded me of how I cut myself from cartoon fandoms like ATLA and superhero comics. Instead of embracing the silliness and absurdity they hyperfixate on what they consider mature and edgy. I'm tired of how fans gush over what if their favorite show made for and targeted for kids was rated R or discussions about which characters committed war crimes with absolutely no understanding of international law. It's sadistic and perverted. They believe they are engaging in mature discussions or being taken seriously but, it's a 13-year-old's version of legitimacy on what they think mature is. It's a poor way to signal they are adults. It's why the only way the know how to handle criticism is by lashing out against anyone who says their show had problems. It's why you will see people discussing shows from 20 years ago as if they were god's gift to man and can't move on to something new. They are stuck. It's why titles of my favorite show was secretly not a "kid's show" are popular. They can't accept that it's targeted for kids and it doesn't revolve around them anymore. Like it's ok to like Pokemon it's targeted for children while being for all ages and it's great! But making it darker and edgier is taking something away from someone younger than you. Korra isn't better when it's darker and edgier while the main character is brutalized for the sake of character growth. It's fetishistic and disturbing. I wish more writers would learn about this and I'm glad that your videos point to these problems.

Thanks Anon!

[jaskierx]

seriously praying that other queer shows like iwtv and heartstopper don’t get cancelled after their next seasons, but if they do then maybe it’ll at least knock some sense into the people who were like “just go watch another queer show” to ofmd fans.

seriously. ofmd's cancellation is a symptom of a wider problem. even if you hated the show, even if you thought it was shit and the fandom is annoying and you'd be happier with it off the air, the facts are that the numbers were great, the show was popular and widely loved and generating loads of engagement, the s3 scripts were written and pre-production had started - and then someone pulled the plug.

why? greed? homophobia? a secret third thing? idk but it happened to us and it can happen to you. and it's not just about the fans who are left without their favourite show. it's about the cast and crew - most of whom are not well paid anyway - who earn a living from creating television and have been left in the lurch. it's about the concerning trend of shows and movies being shelved for tax purposes so some wealth-hoarding millionaire can get even richer. it's about the influence of capitalism over art. it's about how there are already so few shows with good queer representation, with opportunities for nb and trans actors, with opportunities for actors of colour, and now we've lost another one.

and saying shit like 'there are other queer shows' is part of the problem. queer isn't a genre. acting like people only enjoy the show because it's got queer characters is ignorant and contributes to the idea that queer IS a genre. like it or not, ofmd is groundbreaking in the way that it handles queerness and the way in which queerness is the norm. it's absolutely fine if it's not your cup of tea, but you have to recognise that for so many people, it's the first time they've ever seen themselves represented in a show that was about love and romance and the canon couple getting to live happily ever after. as opposed to seeing shows that are 'representation-adjacent' (where there is queer rep but only e.g. in the form of white cis gay men), or shows where queer characters are only ever given storylines about homophobia or coming out or self-acceptance or being disowned or getting hiv.

it's fine to hate ofmd, but it's disingenuous to pretend that it's just one of many identical 'queer shows' that can be easily substituted for one another.

[panharmonium]

What do you think about this: "Kakashi was never interested in Sasuke as an individual, he only projected himself into him and saw a smaller version of himself on Sasuke, Sasuke was never Sasuke to him, just a little Kakashi". I wanted to know your opinion because I miss your meta posts and I feel like lately people are hating Kakashi for things that aren't real :/, also you are really good at explaining and I feel that both characters need love

Hello! Thanks for the question!

The answer to "what do i think about this" is, honestly, that I don't think about it X) I watched the whole show without engaging with the fandom at all (for fear of spoilers, initially), so I was able to experience it without being exposed to anyone else's thoughts, and now that I'm done I generally still avoid poking around, because devoting mental energy to opinions that I find bizarre/not supported by the text doesn't enhance my fandom experience.

Kakashi and Sasuke's relationship is one of the most compelling things about the series to me. I was very surprised when I finished the show/manga and first exposed myself to the fandom only to find so few people invested in them, but at this point I've (mostly) stopped asking myself "what show was everyone else watching" and just settled into enjoying the show that I watched, because that's more fun for me. I can't convince people not to dislike Kakashi if that's what they want to do. I do find it a little weird, because I don't think that's what the story is asking from us, but as long as people mind their business and aren't bugging me on my own blog, they're free to do what they want.

I know it can be frustrating when there are people hating various characters for "things that aren't real," but the fact that these criticisms aren't "real" is precisely why I generally avoid engaging with them. For Kakashi, specifically, there are certain things people can say that will immediately make me stop taking them seriously - "projecting" is one. "Bootlicking" is another, but again, these terms are so wildly inaccurate that I'm not interested in talking about them. The manga and the show are easily accessible; if people want to rewatch/re-read them, they can.

In general, I just prefer to avoid engaging with most of the fandom negativity I see. I think overall most of the rancor I've stumbled across boils down to people engaging with the story in very ungenerous ways, if that makes sense, and that's not how I prefer to read/watch things. Like - back when I was still in the middle of watching the show, I remember someone sent me a message saying that they loved seeing me talk about the story with earnestness/joy, and it was such a lovely message to receive, but it also made me pause and wonder for a second if this was really an uncommon enough thing to be remarked upon. Wouldn't that be the default? Aren't we all here because we love the story and the characters so much? But the truth is that sometimes it does feel like large chunks of fandom spaces (not just Naruto, I mean; I've certainly experienced this elsewhere) are very focused on being negative about "things that aren't real," as you said. Like - people calling Sakura "abusive" for bopping Naruto on the head when he says something rude, when this is not something the text is even remotely trying to say about her. People writing off Jiraiya's entire storyline because of the non-consensual spying on women - which, yes, of course, is disgusting and wrong. Obviously. I am very aware of that. However, I can simultaneously recognize that the story isn't really interested in that or intending me to read it like that; the voyeurism is written as a joke (yes, I understand how gross that is) and there are a hundred potential personal and/or patriarchal and/or genre-related and/or cultural factors that may have gone into Kishimoto writing this particular fail. If I want to understand and appreciate what the story was ACTUALLY trying to communicate with Jiraiya (that he's an idealist who gave up on the world when everything went wrong, who turned to shallow pleasures of the flesh to distract him from the pain of his disillusionment, and who was finally restored to his former faith after meeting Naruto), then I have to mindfully set the voyeurism aside and go, "This writer wrote a gross thing, and I recognize that, but I'm also not going to fixate on it, because I can simultaneously appreciate/find meaning in what he was really trying to say."

I think some of the Kakashi complaints out there very much fall under this umbrella. If I have to see one more person frothing at the mouth about Kakashi briefly tying Sasuke (a qualified ninja who has already demonstrated his ability to escape rope restraints and whom Kakashi has been individually mentoring, sparring against, and connecting with for a month) to a tree for approximately sixty seconds - honestly. I don't know how to tell people they're missing the point, so I don't bother.

Ultimately, the fact of the matter is that people are entitled to dislike any character that they want, even for contrived reasons. As long as they're doing their own thing in their own space and letting me do my thing in mine, we're good.

[fairymascot]

i imagine quite a few followers of mine, over the last few days, have been looking at my blog and wondering to themselves, 'what is milgram, and why won't she shut up about it?'

well, lads, this post is for you.

WHAT IS MILGRAM, AND WHY I WON'T SHUT UP ABOUT IT: a masterpost

milgram is a bit difficult to explain. here's the short version: imagine the popular reality show 'survivor', only instead of real people, it's anime characters. instead of a desert island, it's a magical jail that makes you sing. and instead of an assortment of swimsuit-clad hotties, it's ten highly unstable individuals who have all been, to some degree, involved in a murder. does that clear things up? no?

well, here’s the long version:

a teenager called es wakes up in an eerie, mystical prison, in a guard's uniform, with no memory of who they are or why they're here. the helpful mascot character, a talking rabbit named jackalope, explains that this prison is called milgram, and es is its sole guard and jury. the prison contains ten prisoners, all of whom had committed some sort of murder, although the prison's definition of 'murder' can be a bit loose. none of the prisoners are quite sure how they got there, either, but it's clearly detached from the outside world, and they have no means of contacting anyone from home.

es' job is fairly straightforward. they have to get to know each prisoner, and then decide whether to 'forgive' or 'condemn' them. (this is often translated as voting 'innocent' or 'guilty', but rest assured, everyone is actually guilty. the question is not whether they've committed the murder -- it's whether they're considered justified in doing so.) there will be three trials: for each one, each prisoner will offer their testimony, and receive their verdict. their future in the prison will be affected accordingly.

the prison has a nifty schtick: the prisoners don't testify, exactly. instead, they're connected to a special machine that takes their innermost thoughts, feelings, and memories... and turns them into absolute bangers, paired with epic anime music videos. yes. their fate is decided based on the music video produced by their brain. what happens to those forgiven, and those condemned? well... that will be revealed in time.

that's that for the in-universe setup. in reality, milgram is an interactive multimedia franchise that delivers its story primarily through a series of youtube music videos. the songs are composed by renowned vocaloid producer deco-27 and the videos produced by otoiro. if you're into vocaloid at all, that's probably all you need to know it looks and sounds awesome. (if you're not: i'm telling you that right now.) each character's video has a distinct visual and musical style tailored to their personality, which makes for a very unique and diverse experience. and seriously, all those songs slap.

but the key gimmick is this: es is you. after each character's music video is released, a poll goes up where the viewers can vote to decide whether to forgive or condemn. the majority vote is then canonized, and future story developments will be affected by it.

milgram also explicitly urges you not to vote based strictly on morality. you can vote for whatever reason you'd like. maybe you just find this character cool, and want them to have a good time. maybe they annoy you, so you want them to suffer. maybe you just think this particular verdict would make for some really neat story developments! there's no right or wrong, which makes for some really fun and varied fandom discussions.

another aspect that makes it really engaging to me, is that the music videos -- meant to be the fruit of each character's subconscious -- are rarely straightforward. most of them require some degree of analysis on the viewers' end, and there's no concrete canon explanation provided for most of them. this creates really rich and interesting community discussion! nothing like watching a video for the first time, having no idea what to make of it, and scrolling down to read some passionate fan's frame-by-frame, 5000 word breakdown. it's awesome!

with ten prisoners (plus es, who is not nearly as much of a blank slate as the story would initially have you believe), every fan is guaranteed to find their own little blorbo. each character is incredibly fucked up in their own special way! they're all professionally voice acted and, in addition to their songs, have accompanying voice dramas where you can get to know more about them.

with the first two trials (=seasons) out of three complete, now’s a good time as any to jump in!

OKAY, SO HOW DO I GET INTO THIS THING?

first, a warning: in case that wasn't clear from all the murder, this is not a feel-good series. your favorite blorbo will inevitably turn out to be a horrible person who does horrible things, and will have horrible things happen to them. the videos include, in addition to the obvious violence and murder, themes of abusive relationships, bullying, suicide ideation and child abuse. and that's just off the top of my head.

TRIAL ONE

T1 MUSIC VIDEOS:  you can find every video from the first trial, in order, HERE.

they're all in japanese, and have CC in (just slightly broken) english. this is the main meat of the canon! if you've watched it all and still want more, here's some extra content:

T1 VOICE DRAMAS the character voice dramas can be found in the single release of each song, on spotify, youtube music, or apple music. here are translations gathered from various fans across the web. (i’m linking both youtube uploads and text-only translations, in case any of the links get taken down due to copyright stuff.)

00. es (video / text) | 01. haruka (video / text)| 02. yuno  (video / text) | 03. fuuta  (video / text) 04. mu  (video / text) | 05. shidou  (video / text) | 06. mahiru (video / text) | 07. kazui  (video / text)  08. amane (video / text)  | 09. mikoto (video / text) | 10. kotoko (video / text)

TRIAL TWO

T2 MUSIC VIDEOS: you can find every video from the second trial, in order, HERE.

T2 VOICE DRAMAS 01. haruka (video / text)| 02. yuno  (video / text) | 03. fuuta  (video / text) 04. mu  (video / text) | 05. shidou  (video / text) | 06. mahiru (video / text) 07. kazui (video / text) | 08. amane (video / text) | 09. mikoto (video / text) | 10. kotoko (video / text)

additional resources

milgram official site & twitter - news & updates (japanese)

milgram en on twitter - additional translations (website updates, character blurbs, comics)

rochisama on wordpress - translations of background text in the videos & character interactions from the official app

@milgrammer - sadly no longer active, but has lots of translations, including character bios, cd dramas, and voice actor interviews

@onigiriico​ - currently active translator who’s been doing awesome work on the cd dramas

have fun, and happy judgement!

[bengiyo]

So I’ve got some thoughts wracking around my brain and I’d love to hear your thoughts. Apologies ahead of time because this is long.

Some background: I’ve been watching BL for about 2 years, consuming content from BL fandom on Tumblr for about a year, and listened to you & Nini’s pod since it came out. So I know a big trend and exciting push is workplace BL and more adult BL characters and relationships. I think it’s really interesting that so many in the fandom favor this trend because I struggle with the presence of the typical BL tropes in stories with queer adults because I see many of the tropes as inherently childish I guess? I mean I think as we all watch BL we have to hold a suspension of disbelief watching two adolescent or fully grown men live out these silly tropes (e.g white towel bath, tripping and falling, etc. (we all know’em by now)). I think that’s why I typically lean toward high school and even college settings because it’s easier to imagine characters in that age range engaging with these types of tropes.

I think the same goes for certain genres too. For example: I had a hard time enjoying KinnPorsche because tonally it was hard to reconcile one scene of rampant violence/death and the next scene Kinn & Porsche walking in the park engaging in all the silly tropes. The romance orientation of BL (to me) does not mix well with Mafia or horror genres because the presence of these tropes create such a weird tonal shift throughout the narrative.

I think I primarily have this trouble with Thai BLs (maybe also Taiwan they just don’t produce nearly as many shows so less to compare) because 1) the specific campy thai style of acting and 2) the fact that Thai BLs pack so many of the same tropes in their shows.

Now all that being said: I’m loving Law of Attraction and I’ve been thinking a lot about why it works for me. So far I don’t think there have been nearly as many tropes as some shows but I also think the melodrama of it all helps too. I mean both Charn and Tinn are very archetypal and Charn is almost a caricature of the archetype. It’s ridiculous and highly entertaining and still works as a BL for me.

Ok all that being said (I’m sorry this is so long) specifically with workplace/adult Thai BL: I see it going one of two main ways to continue to work (for me at least) while they also try to explore different settings, genres, and stories. Either 1) LoA route where it’s very dramatic and the characters are more caricatures and it’s not to be taken too seriously (but it’s still fun and entertaining and has some good themes) or 2) they phase out a lot of the tropes and depict more realistic queer characters in adult relationships. If they go route #2 wouldn’t that just lead to inherently more queer shows? From what I understand many define BL by the inclusion of these tropes and centering the romance in the narrative but I just can’t see how these aspects can continue to exist in more adult oriented stories? Do you think new tropes will emerge in these “office BLs” that will make it continue to “feel” BL without it feeling queer? Don’t get me wrong I’m queer and I love that it seems to be going in that direction but I’m also interested in the history/origins of the Thai BL industry and how they will likely try to continue to please their original base (cis het women) with more mature stories and settings without losing the essence of BL and moving more toward queer shows. Would love to hear any and all your thoughts. I’m thinking so much more about these topics hearing you and Nini on the pod so thank you for fostering these conversations!!

There's a lot going on here, so I'm going to try to pull out some specific things to interrogate.

I know a big trend and exciting push is workplace BL and more adult BL characters and relationships. I think it’s really interesting that so many in the fandom favor this trend because I struggle with the presence of the typical BL tropes in stories with queer adults because I see many of the tropes as inherently childish I guess? I mean I think as we all watch BL we have to hold a suspension of disbelief watching two adolescent or fully grown men live out these silly tropes (e.g white towel bath, tripping and falling, etc. (we all know’em by now)). I think that’s why I typically lean toward high school and even college settings because it’s easier to imagine characters in that age range engaging with these types of tropes.

I'm entering my mid-30s. I'm a bit burnt out on the high school and college stuff. I also work in an office tower as part of a large bureacracy. You'd be surprised how much petty office drama looks like the same shit you dealt with in schools. I also like the notion that even adults can enjoy some of the silly first moments. I dont' like the idea that either we settle down with the first boy we met in high school or college or we just don't exist.

Also, there are lots of tropes entering BL from the genre-blending that I think some viewers just don't recognize. Part of why Korean BL is so important is because quite a few viewers are versed in the narrative structures and story beats of a typical kdrama, and their commentary has been interesting as we get more Korean offerings. I often find that people miss out on the cues in Japanese shows because they didn't grow up on Japanese media like I did.

For example, I was commenting to NiNi last night when we were recording for Tokyo in April is... that one of the things I like so much about second chance romance in BL is the different built-in presumptions compared to straight people. When straight people have a second chance, it's usually because one of them broke up with the other. The relationship ended because of their internal problems. In gay second chance, the relationship was often taken from them by homophobia. In Our Dating Sim, internalized homophobia made Wan run away. Same in Individual Circumstances or The Promise. In Tokyo in April is... the boys are separated by their parents. Their relationship ended against their own wills, so the reunion and second chance is different because of their queer context.

Re: KinnPorsche: The romance orientation of BL (to me) does not mix well with Mafia or horror genres because the presence of these tropes create such a weird tonal shift throughout the narrative.

I don't know. History3: Trapped exists. Tropes are storytelling tools built upon familiar beats that audiences recognize. The pinky touch doesn't belong to BL. It grew out of queer media as a way for boys to privately have a moment of intimacy. Tropes are not inherently good or bad. What matters is how they're used. Do they support the narrative and themes, or do they get in the way?

A lot of folks do not like the Blushing Maiden trope. I am variable. It matters how it's used. I think it makes sense for Pharm in Until We Meet Again. I think it makes some sense for Minato in Minato's Laundromat. I don't really like it in Heartstopper 2. Elle gets a Heel Pop in Heartstopper 2, and it's what she deserves!

As for a mafia story, putting a romance story in a crime drama often is used to ramp up the sense of tragedy because the romance can't succeed inside the rules of the crime world.

specifically with workplace/adult Thai BL: I see it going one of two main ways to continue to work (for me at least) while they also try to explore different settings, genres, and stories. Either 1) LoA route where it’s very dramatic and the characters are more caricatures and it’s not to be taken too seriously (but it’s still fun and entertaining and has some good themes) or 2) they phase out a lot of the tropes and depict more realistic queer characters in adult relationships.

I don't like binaries like this. If you had asked me at 15 when I started watching Degrassi and then sneaking around to watch other gay shit if we'd have what we call BL now, I would not have believed you.

As for Laws of Attraction, I don't know that calling the characters caricatures is accurate either. They're behaving under the surreal rules of a lakorn, a telenovela, or a soap opera. There are exaggerations in the characters, but they all make sense and are obeying the rules of their world.

As for the question about BL getting more gay, @absolutebl has covered this already. Audiences do not care about gay people. Some of the conventions of surreal BL or the bubble are why they signed up. People did not watch POSE, they do not watch stuff like For the Boys, I haven't seen anyone on Tumblr talk about Sort Of, we didn't get an explosion of new gay shit after Moonlight or Call Me By Your Name. All I wanna say is that they don't really care about us.

I think there is room for BL to genre blend and play with broader romance or dramatic themes, à la La Pluie or Moonlight Chicken. However, I'll remind you that folks don't always like that (see I Promised You The Moon).

I think the biggest thing to recognize is that, while BL does have some of its own tropes from origin yaoi or modern Thai BL, BL shares a lot of DNA with romance as a whole. Don't get lost in the sauce of the classification war. Watching BL to check off boxes about what's recognized or not as the primary goal feels like a distraction.

Besides, if you're enjoying Laws of Attraction, that show has done nothing new. It's literally just using familiar lakorn and romance beats. Humans have been telling stories for at least 20,000 years. It doesn't have to be new to be good. It just needs to be done well.

[monkiekidtwt]

Genuine question, no hate! Why stay on lmk Twitter and repost stuff to here abt it if you dislike it so much? And why are we all arguing over which platform is better? They are all good and bad, there's no better over the other.

To answer this seriously: the reason I stay is because it’s where the majority of LMK fans are. It’s the only place where Monkie Kid News and other such resources resides, and it is often the place that first gets wind of stuff like new releases. If I want to have my finger on the pulse of the show, I sort of have no choice to be. So, while I’m there, I repost the good stuff.

I’ve never engaged in arguments that one social media is better than the other, mind. Just said that Twitter sucks. But the reasons why I dislike Twitter (especially fandom Twitter) are as follows:

A culture of directly harassing people for minor infractions, or what turns out to be misinformation (just the other day, a minor was harassed for something it turned out they didn’t do)

Idolization of big name fans (like I said in an earlier post; if you criticize a big name fan, then you’re gonna get dogpiled to hell and back, and if a big name fan says something, everyone will pretend they’ve always agreed, even if they’ve expressed the opposite recently)

Literal 24/7, unavoidable discourse that nobody tags (today, the topic of fandom-wide discussion was people who treat Mei like she gets in the way of Spicynoodles, which literally nobody does)

It is so hard to optimize your experience and curate your feed, because tagging is not built into the system (like, what would I filter other than ‘Spicynoodles’ to stop seeing the previous discourse, when the majority of them are just text posts with no tags? what if I like that ship and don’t wanna mute it?)

Even if you could curate it better, general social media stuff that everyone knows about Twitter at this point makes it so that you’re always seeing stuff that upsets you (it’s designed to addict you, and feeds you the algorithm which is designed to show you posts that make you upset or angry for engagement, plus more!)

And that’s not even getting into the Elon Musk of it all, or the fact that I’ve had multiple friends on there both watch and be victims of horrific harassment campaigns on LMKtwt that left them with literal trauma symptoms.

Compare this to tumblr:

The culture here is largely “block and move on”

The tagging system makes it easy for people to tag their discourse so I don’t have to see it

Since there is no algorithm, there is no issue with being fed posts to upset me

Harassment is less normalized, and when you are harassed, it’s usually via anon, which you can turn off to shut them up

I have never personally seen any people showing weird behavior towards fellow fans, which is either a sign that it doesn’t happen or that you’re able to curate your feed with minimum effort to never see it

Twitter is an infinitely worse experience, culturally and by social media design, but I stay there because it is where most of the LEGO Monkie Kid fandom is, plus the chill people that reside there sometimes.

So, that’s 1) why I hate it there, and 2) why I’m there anyway. And I run this blog to share the goodies with tumblr, so that nobody else has to feel obligated to be on LMKtwt like I feel that I do. Which is why I make jokes about making such a huge sacrifice for the sake of LMK tumblr, via running this blog.

[huginsmemory]

hi :) 🔥 maybe for vashwood or just trigun in general

Hello, and why thank you for the ask! This is a spicy one hahaha. Uhm, I definitely do have a few bones to pick with vashwood and trigun, and yup if you're like oh no is this about stampede (cough, low hanging fruit...) Then. Uhm. yeah it is. Sorry. I have a few thoughts about it, and why I really dislike (sorry stampede enjoyers) the choices for the characterization for Vash and Wolfwood, including the feminization of Vash. And also... how part of these characterizations are related to classical yaoi shipping dynamic tropes and how it may or may not be intentional (I'm gifting u a conspiracy haha). And then my own opinions on these changes and the reception of the new characterizations. These thoughts have been rolling around in my brain for a while but I wasn't sure if I wanted to post it since it's a bit spicy. But. Well. This is as good a sign as any.

I'll be going over the differences in Wolfwoods characterization, in Vash's characterization and his feminization in stampede, and then how this relates to yaoi shipping dynamics and Vashwood fandom reception (and my personal feelings around it...).

Also, this ended up being... Really long. Oops. I've highlighted the TLDR paragraphs in red for those who want to skim. If u want to just be like, wow spicy take with no context... Go to the last paragraph lol.

Preface and acknowledgement

I want to preface this with that I haven't actually watched Stampede, although I have quite heavily engaged with secondary material about it, ie gifs, meta posts, etc. So I suppose one can take my opinions with a grain of salt; to really form a full opinion on the series, I would have to watch stampede myself, of which I have zero time to do and maybe at one point I'll get around to. This is also why I've been reluctant to get into my thoughts... but from what I've seen of it, I've got a few bones to pick.

Yes, I may be a bit of a hater (ah... such a strong word...) but I do want to acknowledge that stampede has revived the trigun fandom, and hell, I wouldn't have read the manga without it. So credit where credits due, and it's very exciting to engage with the fandom for the first time and see it grow so much in such a short time. Also, yes, I am one of those people who watched the 98 version quite a while ago, so for me it's something that is nostalgic. Call me blinded by nostalgia all u want. If stampede is what first got you into trigun-- congrats! I'm not here to invalidate your experience; stampede is simply another iteration of trigun (even if I disagree with some of the characterizations), and I highly recommend you check out the manga as well. I'm very happy to have you here in the fandom!

Wolfwood's characterization

As some other people have noted here- stamp!ww is a bit different then ww in trimax or the 98, while the cut-copy-paste of the tragic orphange background stays the same (Nightow, you're so over the top. I love it).

Within 98 and trimax, ww is a bit rough around the edges, but is overall friendly, kind, charismatic and a bit goofy (a character trait these ww's share with Vash, which they both use it in a way to mask their darker parts of their lives). Sure, wolfwood in these iterations have zero issues calling people out on their bullshit and is willing to manipulate people around him into doing the greater good- but is shown to be gruffly genuinely caring about people when he can help (especially children), even if he still chooses to kill people when it comes down to it. This can be seen with 98!ww getting Vash to sign up for the tournament to help the single mum and her kid, and the way trimax!Wolfwood treats Milly during the midvalley fight because he's worried about her getting seriously injured, even going to the point of injuring her himself. Sure, he's not going to declare his care verbally to people, but he doesn't need to do that when he's actively doing things that clearly shows he cares for people, especially those he's created ties to, even if he chooses to be violent/forceful when he believes what he is doing is for the best.

This charismatic friendliness and kindness is generally stripped from Stamp!Wolfwood; sure, he cares deep down as is displayed by the orphange and his concern later in the series for Vash, but through his actions with others, there's a noticible lack of general feeling of kindness behind his overstepping of people boundaries compared to og!ww. As another user in here put it, Stamp!ww is a bit of a dick. He has harsh commentary to the group and one of the first things you do is see him rip off Meryl and Roberto with his undertaker job over literal dead bodies when he's introduced. Nor does he really get to be redeemed through showing his care for children, such as at the bus stop where he gives away most of his money or food to begging children, opting to go hungry himself; it instead being replaced by him giving a lolipop to Zazie... which doesn't count for shit. This post by chibivesicles does a really good job of summarizing it from the fourth episode.

ID: 3 images, each of different iterations of Wolfwood giving something away to a child. First is 98, with ww giving away two of his three food ration bars to two scruffy children, the second from the manga with ww giving away two of his three coins to two scruffy children while Vash watches on, and the third with ww offering a sucker to Zazie while Meryl and Vash watch on.

Overall, the gist I've gotten of Stampede's iteration is that they very much boxed Wolfwood into the typical anime tsundere black-haired brooding character, stripping out his previous goofy and friendly charisma as well as his general feeling of kindness to fit that character trope better.

Vash's Characterization

Vash within 98 and trimax is also pretty different from stamp!Vash; I find this difference to specifically come from stamp!Vash feeling more naive, less driven and well--a bit spineless. The differences come down to two things; Vash having a strong moral spine which he is willing to call people out on due to righteous anger and Vash being emotionally detached from the people around him. Sure, og Vash (going to just use this to refer to 98 and trigun manga together) is goofy, cheerful and shows his emotions on his sleeve, but he doesn't actually let people become close to him. It's delibrate, and most of it specifically revolves around obfuscating that he's a plant and his goal of trying to chase Knives down; thus, he adopts a lifestyle of travelling and rarely staying long in areas, and so you see that his relationship with people are pretty surface level, even through his friendliness.

Three specific incidents within the series and their differences illustrate the emotional distance, and the righteous fury of og!Vash's in comparison to stamp!Vash. This includes Vash's childhood and relationship to the people on the seeds ship after the fall, Brad questioning their trust in Vash as he isn't human, and Wolfwood killing someone to save Vash.

Firstly, for Vash's childhood after the fall, within stampede he's pretty quickly picked up by the seeds ship, which hosts him, and they immediately are able to identify that he is an independent plant. They know more about him than he knows really about himself, and they also are generally aware about the fall (although not the exact details until later). Vash is raised for a while under their tutelage, and ends up helping heal plants, overall forming bonds with them even if they treat him a bit rough in the beginning, and Luida becomes mom #2.

ID: Screenshot from tristamp, of the photo on Vash's bedroom table, of him with all the seeds ship people he was working with.

In 98, no information is really given, but presumably is something somewhat similar to trimax. In trimax, after the fall Vash literally wanders the wastes with Knives for about 70 years, until Knives cuts Vash's arm off in anger at Vash's insistence that people shouldn't be killed, even when he's literally at the mercy of a town that is going to kill him and sell his organs. It is assumed sometime not long after Vash gets picked up by the seeds ship people, as it is mentioned that theyve known him for 70 years. Vash during these 80 years is very alone, with only his brother as company who is angry and abusive, as is directly pointed out within the manga. The two of them are presumed to be eking out a living travelling around the harsh wastes, and as displayed by the human organ stealing town, it is clear that often human settlements are just another possibility of danger due to crime and violence as a result of limited resources.

ID: two manga pages. First is just a panel showing Vash's flashbacks to violent traumatic instances of his childhood, showing a montage of him yelling, holding a gun, and crouched over a man who is dead and bleeding out looking panicked and horrified.

The second page is Knives while they are traveling together in the desert, looking down at Vash and calling him over. Vash looks at Knives, and he narrates that "It was about 80 years after the fall. Time passed slowly, but we neither grew nor parted. I knew I couldn't leave him alone. That thought alone determined the distance between us." Vash and Knives are clearly distant from each other in the panel, Vash in the foreground and Knives indistinguishable other than a silhouette at the top of the sand dune in the hindground.

In comparison, although it's not easy for Vash either in stampede, his childhood is cushier and less lonely. This loneliness and harsh environment that trimax!Vash exists within adds a depth of experience to his ethics, informing his righteous anger over everything that is morally wrong and should have never been, that makes him speak out, providing him a stronger spine which stamp!Vash doesn't have. This intensely lonely part of his upbringing also gives him an emotional independence, or even detachment, from most people he interacts with, in comparison to stamp!Vash who is emotionally dependent (and seems less mature) due to his ties to the seeds ship people.

As in tristamp, the closest people to Vash in trimax are the people on the seeds ships (also Lina and her grandma, but they don't know who he is when they take him in). Although he's the most open with them (ie, they know about Knives and his plans), during the visit to the seeds ship you are still given the idea that while Vash knows everyone and cares greatly for them, Vash is still generally emotionally independent from them, and doesn't form intimate relationships with people (especially compared to stamp!Vash). Interestingly, the manga implies when they first visit that they don't know what he is exactly, just that he's functionally immortal, as that when Luida talks about him to Wolfwood, she doesn't mention that he's a plant. Overall, compared to the outside people, the people on the seeds ship know more, and are more aware of how to use the old technology (it's also something that is hinted that some of it is possibly taught to them by Vash over the years), but they are not more knowledgeable then Vash, with Vash likely about the same level or more knowledgeable then them about general 'lost tech' and plant related things. As well, the people on the seeds ship in trimax are entirely unaware of circumstances around the fall--and Vash never tells them either. The visit to the seeds ship trimax functions as a way to allow the reader to distinctly comprehend Vash's age, and how Vash is really quite a terribly lonely character, as he is doomed to watch those he cares about die (which also informs why he likely doesn't really let people get very close to him, along with practical matters). This is directly pointed out in Luida's conversation with Wolfwood and Wolfwoods own inner monologue, as well as being alluded to by Jessica's locket, and Brad's grumblings. From the explanations you get the sense that Vash is emotionally independent and in a way, detached from people's opinions of him as a result of his longevity, with his constant travelling only ensuring that.

This is very different to the relationship of stamp!Vash with the seeds ship, as Vash is shown to have emotionally dependant relationships with the people on the seeds ship, with them literally raising him as a child, and this 'parent-child' relationship is only emphasized by them knowing more than Vash does about independent plants. Instead of emphasizing how Vash is old and outside of time, the dynamic gives Vash as a character an overall young and naive slant to his character, even if they still do drop the 'he's 150 years old' line when the stamp gang visits the ship.

This emotional dependence/independence directly corroborates to the differences in Vash's response to Brad's comment on him not trusting him, as something non-human. Within stampede, as Vash is young, he flees, feeling rejected--indicating a strong emotional dependence on those on the seeds ships for acceptance of who he is. However, within Trimax, Vash acknowledges Brad's comment, and actually validates and agrees with Brad's concerns; he's aware enough that who and what he is something to be feared and suspicious of (especially as by this time, the fifth moon incident, and July has occurred) and is worried about this himself; however, he simply requests Brad to trust him in this. Trimax!Vash's is emotionally independent, from Brad's rejection, a person who is part of the community that he is closest to; he accepts what Brad says, but also stands firm on his request from the community and his continued association with them, focused on his goals of stopping Knives. It's a scene that originally shows Vash's emotional independence from what others think of him (although he is saddened by it), and displays his maturity and acceptance when others reject him for who he is.

ID: Five pages of the manga. First page, Brad (in his early 20's) scoffs at Vash being called human. Second, Brad accuses Vash as a plague bringer in light of the fifth moon incident being brought up, grabbing him by his collar. Vash closes his eyes, then looks up at Brad, gaze steely, replying, "yeah that is possible". Third page, Vash asks Brad "Won't... you trust me? Please. Brad?". Vash looks sorrowful but is serious. Fourth page, Brad responds by saying "Ones who live outside of time, huh... In thirteen years... even though my hands have grown this big... You... Haven't really changed at all". The words are over-laid on an image of Brad's small hands reaching up to Vash when he was a child, and a smaller panel has Brad looking disturbed. The fifth page has Brad angrily stomping out of the room calling out "Everyone in the older generation may trust you... But you're not convincing me!". Vash then responds by saying to the older man in the room, that "I see what you mean. From the standpoint of a normal human I must be a monster.".

This is entirely turned on its head within tristamp to a scene that displays emotional dependence on people and an inability to accept rejection, displaying a immature, self-conscious, and younger version of Vash. Obviously, he is still younger at this point, but this immaturity and emotional dependence is one that still persists within the narrative of stampede, and influences your view of Stamp!vash. One could argue that then learning the details of why the ships fell is something Vash feels more guilty about, and so takes Brad's criticism harder, and flees. However, no matter what, this is a immature reaction. Interestingly, this portrayal of Vash having an emotional dependence on humans accepting him, is quite contrary to trimax, as this trait is actually one that specifically emphasized to belong to Knives, while trimax!Vash is shown to be emotionally detached and generally uninterested in their acceptance by humans.

ID: Screencap from stampede, Vash against the door looking shocked and horrified as he hears Brad say "he's never been on the side of us humans!".

The third thing is the scene where Wolfwood kills a man for Vash. Within stampede, Rollo is killed; Vash is angry at Wolfwood for doing so, grabbing Wolfwoods collar, but with a few strong words of a reminder of the harshness of general existence from wolfwood, Vash shuts up and is shown to just be sad, if a bit withdrawn/sulky with Wolfwood. Within Trimax, this scene is technically a rolling together of multiple arcs, but specifically thematically wise is a revamp of when he faces off with Rai-dei the Blade. When Wolfwood kills Rai-dei, Vash literally slaps Wolfwood hard in anger, resulting in them get into a fight, with Wolfwood retaliating by slamming Vash down to the ground in anger, and culminating in him pressing his loaded handgun into Vash hands, pointing it at his own head, and telling him to shoot; Vash then derogatorily calls Wolfwood a coward and they break up the fight, both still very angry at each other. In this, Vash clearly has very strong morals and is unafraid to call Wolfwood out when he transgresses them, full of righteous fury. None of this anger is transposed into stamp!Vash, who just looks sad about all of it; sure, he has values, but they feel like he fumbles with them, unsure and unwilling to speak up for them in an assertive way, crumbling underneath any criticism.

ID: first image is three panels from tristamp, and second is five pages of the manga, both detailing Vash calling out Wolfwood on killing.

First of the three panels has Vash grasping ww collar, looking angry; Wolfwood says "mercy" in response to the unseen question asked by Vash. He then goes on to say "there's no way to return his humanity", and Vash is looking down, fists clenched. Wolfwood continues, saying that "at best, it's all talk" about Vash's beliefs. Vash looks hollow and distressed.

The second, the first page has ww shooting Rai-dei; Vash responds in horror. Second page has Vash slap Wolfwood, yelling "why? Why did you shoot him?! Wolfwood?", to glare up at him. Third page has ww slam Vash onto the ground, Vash looks shocked, arms around his head to protect it. Ww glares down at Vash, saying "are you really such an idiot? If I hadn't shot him, it would be you lying there." Fourth page has Wolfwood holding Vash's hand with his own handgun in it against his forehead. Wolfwood tells Vash to "SHOOT." Fifth panel has Wolfwood telling Vash that he is a chickenshit for not being able to kill him. Vash then responds by calling Wolfwood a coward.

Something that's also interesting about the righteous anger that drives og!vash, is that its specifically because of his righteous anger, that he comes very close to killing people (Monev the gale, and how he's originally in the trigun manga before trimax presumably tracking down Knives to kill him after July, to some degree the rapist in the train)--and violating his ethics. This anger--and Vash's very real possibility of him killing someone out of a feeling of righteous fury, or a feeling of just righteousness--adds further dimension to Vash as a character, because you see that he also struggles with his no kill rule, even if he staunchly stands by it. Which... without this feeling of righteous anger, it takes out Vash's dilemmas around killing others.

To summarize the above, stamp!Vash lacks the righteous anger that og!Vash has around his belief of forgiveness and second chances (of a blank ticket), and as a result fails to confront others assertively when presented with things that go against his beliefs. Stamp!Vash also lacks the emotional independence that he previously had as a result of a harsh and lonely upbringing and his travelling lifestyle and his inability to age; instead he forms an emotional dependence and connections with them. Generally, the two characters have a very different relationship with the people in the seeds ship, which makes trimax vash seem older and more mature, while Stamp!vash feels more young and naive.

Vash and Femininity

Vash as a character has always been portrayed in a somewhat feminine light; Nightow even specifically has said that he purposely designed the angel arm with feminine elements, as the act of creation is correlated to the feminine. In much the same way, plants are drawn feminine, likely to correlate to the same feminine=creation manner. Thus, his relations to the angel arm, and plants he is given a feminine slant to his character. As well, Vash is shown to be open (ie, crying in public multiple times) and shown to be (at least somewhat) emotionally competent with his emotions, as that empathy (and Rem's instructions) is the core of his belief of pacifism and no-kill policy. These emotional related traits are, well, very commonly perceived to be feminine traits. Vash is also quite pretty in a more delicate (feminine) way, especially with his teardrop mole; he's not 'ruggedly' handsome like Wolfwood, in a more traditionally 'masculine' way. As well, Vash as a character is shown to be a more passive character, as the majority of trimax and 98 has the plot occurring to Vash, rather then Vash actively seeking out and causing changes within the narrative. This passivity within the narrative also is commonly found correlated to female roles, who often aren't active agents of the narrative. This can especially be seen in comparison to active 'male' roles, such as is played out by Knives who is majorly making decisions that move the plot forward (although Knives himself has gender fuckery going on. Nightow likes gender fuckery. On a related note, I love u Elendira and I'm so sorry what they did to you in tristamp that's horrendous). This is also related to how repeatedly within trigun the issue of bodily autonomy and choice is brought up--within plants of course, but also Vash's bodily autonomy is clearly violated multiple times, such as within July, and the fifth moon incident by Knives (and this relates, and this immensely good post put it, also to Vash's insistence on not killing, which is the most ultimate form of violation of bodily autonomy). Bodily autonomy (and the lack of it) is also something deeply related to woman's issues (among others, such as general minority groups).

So overall, even within Trimax and 98, Vash is quite clearly traditionally feminine coded, as can be seen in relation to his angel arm, his emotional openness, his physical features of being 'pretty', his passivity within the narrative and his lack of bodily autonomy. However, even within these feminine traits, og!Vash still comes off as masculine; the breadth of his shoulders and triangle shaped body indicates that, as well as his righteous anger and willingness to speak up against ethical issues are typically seen as masculine traits. Within 98 and trimax he's essentially coded as a feminine-leaning man.

Stamp!Vash however, is a different can of worms. His character still carries the feminine traits as is detailed above, but as previously discussed, specifically lacks the righteous anger that gives og!Vash a backbone and a willingness to stand up for transgressions against his ethics. This further emphasis on passivity of Vash strips him of one of the defining 'masculine' traits of anger, further sliding him along the masculine-feminine spectrum to a more feminine character. As well, with the character revamp making Vash more lithe, rather then giving him broad shoulders, and his hair cut is more of a non-binary haircut vs something that could be argued to be more masculine, further effeminates him as a character. Not to mention the work he's been doing, which is being a plant engineer, specifically involves with caring for and nurturing plants--which directly correlates to a emotionally sensitive nurturing role, one which it is also correlated to a feminine role. This especially so when it's shown that this iteration of Vash is clearly emotionally sensitive too and dependant on the people from the seeds ship, another 'feminine' trait. As well, within stampedes Vash rarely fires his gun... In comparison to 98 and trimax, where you see him fire it quite frequently, to incapacitate people. Comfort with firing a gun, and just general use of a weapon is another traditionally masculine trait. Overall, Vash within Stampede is almost entirely devoid of any masculine traits and is comprised of almost all feminine traits--passive both in narrative and in character, feminine in his work, his build, his goddamn haircut, his bodily autonomy-- with basically the only thing not is that he's not canonically female.

Stamp!Vash feminization and Fandom Reception

This has quite obviously been picked up by the fandom, with many people with trans!Vash headcanons. As per my experience of generally keeping an eye on the ao3 feed, in fact, a large majority of Vashwood fanfiction is of afab trans Vash, with another majority of xeno/intersex Vash; in fact, it's a rarity to find a fic specifically detailing a non trans or intersex Vash within the newer AO3 works. Interestingly, this is quite different then the works previously found within Vashwood on AO3, pre-stamp; these works are primarily with a amab non-trans Vash. It'd be interesting to actually run the numbers, but I'm too lazy to do that. This difference I've observed within pre and post stamp I bet is a result of these changes to Vash's character, making him more feminine--and more likely to be pegged (pun intended) as a trans or intersex character, especially one that has a vagina (specifically, vaginal sex within explicit fics is a very common tag within the Vashwood ao3 feed).

Stamp!Vashwood and Yaoi Tropes

Something that has been personally mildly bugging me about the stampede vashwood is the common yaoi trope of when there are two gay characters, one needs to assume to traditionally feminine role (nurturing, emotional, passive), while the other keeps the traditionally masculine role (in charge, often unable/unwilling to express emotions ) within the relationship. As well, a popular trope within the traditionally masculine role is for the character to be tsundere, heavily leaning into the character being emotionally incompetent and just generally being a dick. This... almost too well fits the changes to both Vash and Wolfwoods characters. Stamp!Wolfwood is now squarely a tsundere and a bit of a dick, as well as dark and brooding, rather then a charming if gruff and rough around the edges character that is goofy and kind (but still dark and brooding). In the meantime, Vash is further feminized, his righteous anger replaced by passivity, fitting that role of a female character perhaps a little too well.

The rest of stampede has been heavily revamped to cater to a modern Japanese audience; this can be seen with the use of Japanese ranking systems within the Eye of Micheal that didn't exist, the stripping of a lot of Christian themes from the show, the swap to a sci-fi genre instead of western and the re-vamping of the character designs. In a similar way, revamping the characters into character types and tropes the Japanese audience is familiar with wouldn't be a stretch; and especially so tropes found within yaoi that very easily can invite shipping, if you as a director recognize the potential of Vashwood as a ship to get people invested into a show. Which, quite evidently, the director may aware of, as he's been liking copious amounts of fanart, including Vashwood. He also has a quote attributed to him about how Vash acts as both a female and male character. So, did the feminization of Vash and heavily emphasized tsundere attitude of Wolfwood come about as (at least a part of) a result of a yaoi bait ploy to get people invested into tristamp? Honestly, I don't know, but it fits the tropes so well that some parts of the stamp!vashwood rubs me the wrong way (even if I'm marinating myself within the fandom). It's especially fishy that one of the people involved with the production is liking vashwood stuff shows that people involved in making decisions for the show are aware (and even encouraging) the ship. The fandoms also been around for quite a while, so it would be easy enough to tap into the fandom to see what was popular--and what they could potentially exploit. Interestingly, the way they're setting up tristamp also leans into yaoi bait for Knives x Vash as well, heavily leaning into Knives being like 'everything I did was for you Vash' in an obvious way, which wasn't really the case with trimax... But that's another can of worms. More attention, the better I suppose.

If it's true, characters where changed for more shipping potential, does this matter really? In a grand scheme of things, no. I mean, yaoi bait is obviously utilized in many anime media, just look at Drrr! and the shizuo x izaya ship. The author is plenty aware of what they are doing and leaning hard into it, knowing its popularity, and exploiting that. So it goes. Obviously, its not necessarily a 'bad change' if they decided to change the characters partly for shipping; that's something people get to decide for themselves. Besides, this new iteration of trigun with a more feminine Vash allows for a heavier emphasis on bodily autonomy, especially in regards to femininity as that one post linked above goes into. However, that said, does it matter to me, who is chewing through drywall thinking about the complexities of Wolfwood and Vash and their relationship in trimax? Yeah, absolutely. A little more on that below.

Personal opinions on everything above

If you don't want to read me griping on personally about tristamp then you can just skip this section. It's just me being boring and predictable.

Personally, I miss the og versions of Wolfwood and Vash; I miss the righteous anger that Vash has, I miss their designs and big shoulders and Wolfwoods goofiness and kindness. As well, as much as I love the trans headcanons that are coming out of stampede, as a masc leaning NB individual I really enjoyed the masculine but also emotionally sensitive version of Vash. This especially so as a part of me feels uncomfortable that people look at a male character that is essentially fulfilling a feminine role and go, oh, he's an afab transman, specifically because of his close connotations with femininity. Like, fuck gender expectations and norms and all that, but for me I'm a bit uncomfortable with that assertion (btw this is not me being like u guys need to stop--we're all allowed our opinions, and y'all seem to be enjoying yourself, so go ham I guess). Also, just personally, I've never particularly identified with feminine characters, especially passive female characters, which stamp!Vash very much feels like.

Perhaps part of it is also that I relate a great amount to og!Vash's righteous anger over everything that is occurring, being a part of a cultural minority myself, and being so terribly angry over how I've seen my people be treated. I've also got an abusive sibling with anger issues that lashes out, so seeing Vash struggle with his relationship with Knives, being so terribly angry over everything Knives has put him through (technically, more about others then himself but I digress), along with his confusion and dilemma over still caring about and loving his sibling is also so very validating. So stripping that underlying righteous anger about everything to just make him sad™ makes him less relatable to me. Where is your anger over everything??? where is it?? Come on man, bare your teeth to the world.

Maybe also part of it is also related to just... acknowledging that male characters can be kind. This is probably related to why I dislike that ww has just become a tsundere and kind of a dick. Give him his friendly charisma and kindness back u cowards, I'll beat you with a stick. Dark brooding tsundere's are dime a dozen! Rough around the edges and dangerous but still kind and a bit silly and friendly men who are riddled with guilt? Shiningly beautiful.

Overall, all meta analysis and conspiracy theories (character flattening of wolfwood and vash to fit yaoi tropes) aside, I guess what I'm trying to say is that my 🔥 spicy 🔥 trigun/vashwood opinion is that I don't particularly like this very heavily feminized version of Vash which the fandom seems to be quite happily enjoying. This is both because his righteous anger is stripped out which I relate too and that I (masc NB) feel somewhat uncomfortable that he's often considered a afab transman due to specifically his feminine traits.

EDIT (MAR 27): a post script with further thoughts I suppose, especially after reading this post by @paiteyy , which describes the stripping of more canonical queerness within Stampede--and the way specifically that Meryl seems to be given some of Wolfwoods roles from trimax, in relation to likely making her stampedes 'canonical' ship... in comparison to how trimax Wolfwood and Vash spend a majority of the time together and form deep emotional connections. If they are rearranging tristamp to further cement Meryl into a heavier role of love interest, then it would make sense for her to take over some of Wolfwoods actions. This also falls in line with how they've gone out of their way to give Meryl a bigger backstory and create conditions for character growth... while simultaneously simplifying many of the other characters, especially Wolfwood. Interestingly, this actually falls in line with the tristamp creators being very invested and shuffling things around to fit shipping tropes to rope in a bigger audience; by moving Meryl to the front they can get a canonical het ship for the general audience (much like the 98 version did in a way--cause clearly every show the mc needs a clear love interest), while also ensuring to lean into sub-textual yaoi tropes to rope in others which would be interested in queer ships.

Also photo ID's were added :D

PLUS: here's the link to more of my meta posts if you liked this.

[burr-ell]

If you're still doing to the choose violence ask game, 8 and 13 for critical role

choose violence ask game

8. common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

Well for one thing, as I alluded to in a previous ask, I don't tend to recommend quite as strongly against watching the Orion Acaba episodes of C1 as a lot of people do, both because I think they've got some really good moments and because I think people sometimes need to get some perspective on what this table being upset with a player actually looks like.

Other than that? I think that—particularly on this side of the fandom—there's a general aversion to even hinting that you don't like Marisha's characters very much. And I completely understand why, but I think it's worth pointing out that it's not 2018 anymore. Campaign 1 has been over for five and a half years. Bowlgate happened before Mollymauk even died, and both of those things happened before many current fans started watching the show in the first place. There is a wide gulf between misogynistic harassment and just not really vibing with someone's narrative choices, and there's an even wider gulf between misogynistic harassment and pointing out a character's flaws to engage with them.

Now of course there is absolutely still misogyny in this fandom and I think we should still be telling people to cut that shit out, but Marisha Ray is an adult woman in her 30's and does not need to be obsessively defended from any and all mildly non-positive commentary. She does not need to be exalted above everyone else and treated like neither she nor her characters can do anything wrong. I honestly don't get how you can do that, even tongue-in-cheek, and not think you're doing her a disservice.

13. worst blorbofication

Ashton. I think a lot of people have really chosen only to pay attention to those moments where Ashton is dispensing wisdom and are ignoring the multiple statements by Taliesin that Ashton's not doing okay, at all. They're not trying to compartmentalize or internalize what they're going through, but just because they're open about what's wrong with them doesn't mean they're not dealing with their issues poorly. Transparency is not the soul of healthiness.

One of the most interesting things to me about Taliesin's characters is that—with the exception of Percy and Molly, apparently, provided you get them both some weed, as well as Kingsley and Caduceus—they'd all hate each other, and all of them probably with legitimate reasons. We see that in Ashton's argument with Percy (where both of them had valid points on the issue no I will not hear otherwise), but I also have to raise my eyebrows at the assertion that Ashton would get along with Caduceus. Because you can't tell me that Caduceus's tendency to treat people like projects wouldn't immediately clash with Ashton's stubborn refusal to be saved, and as others have pointed out, Caduceus "pain doesn't make people" Clay would probably end up seriously pissing off Ashton "there is strength, but there is pain" Greymoore. (They'd also definitely try to pulverize Molly.)

I dunno man, Ashton really gets flattened a lot, and it isn't escaping my notice that fandom opinion of them tends to change purely based on whether or not they're supporting Blorbo or Ship. Which is a damn shame, because Ashton's probably one of the most interesting characters in the party.

[itsclydebitches]

Tonight I came across a post (that won't hit my blog until July because I queued it) about how it's unfortunate that "fun" has supposedly become a requirement of video games, given that this severely limits how they can function as works of art. We don't limit other mediums by insisting that they only produce positive emotions and experiences in the recipient, so why would video games be any different just because they're (more) interactive?

This post isn't actually about video games, but rather how that argument got me thinking about RWBY and the recent resurgence of this "Why are you still here if you hate the show?" question. Now, setting aside the acknowledgment that 99.9% of people asking that are merely trolling behind their faux-concern—they have no actual interest in hearing a RWDE poster's reasons for sticking around, they simply want a way to say, "Get out" with plausible deniability—but if we treat this question seriously, I think that post on video games may offer some insight. I have numerous reasons for keeping active in the RWBY/RWDE fandom (initial love of the show, intellectual exercises, the community we've made, etc.) but there is also some level of investment in what would traditionally be framed as non-positive emotions. RWBY can make me feel very frustrated... similar to how playing Pathalogic makes me frustrated. Many of its plot-lines make me angry... the same way numerous video games' discriminatory writing can make me angry. RWBY's community, at times, feels like an insult-laden battlefield... but I've been doing PvP in WoW since it came out, so that's familiar too.

There are so many times when I've enjoyed engaging with a piece of media even when I really didn't enjoy it. Perhaps a better way of putting it would be that I found something worthwhile in the experience, even if I couldn't label that as "fun" or "happiness" or "satisfaction." Sometimes sitting with negative emotions is a good thing. Yes, you can take that too far just like you can take any behavior to an extreme, which is where the continual demands to "watch another show" highlight those posters' willful ignorance. We're already watching other shows. Reading other books. Playing other games. Engaging with a huge, diverse variety of art. Those who gain their own enjoyment from targeting strangers online (and isn't that a significant aspect to all this) want to make it sound like RWDE posters haven't touched a single piece of art other than RWBY in ten years and if they just found something they enjoyed without reservations then they'd drop RWBY like a hot potato. But I'm already watching numerous shows that I love unconditionally and have nothing substantial to critique; shows that have me internally kicking my feet and twirling my hair because they're just sooooooo good. I have that! RWBY is a different experience. It scratches a very specific itch of "I once adored this thing and now it's disappointing, but I want to see it through to its end and unpacking the ways in which it fails is a fascinating, cathartic mental exercise." I can't get that from anything else—not right now, anyway—so why would I want to give up this unique experience to fill my time solely with art that only makes me feel Generically Good? Art I have little to say about because it already feels #perfect to my mind? Sure, I could analyze a show's positives and sing its praises (which I often do), but at a certain point you run of out ways to say, "I like it." There's a reason why transformative fandom is built around the gaps in media: missing scenes, plot holes, retcons, failures, missed opportunities, horrible disappointments. Transformation comes more easily when you're already inclined to change the canon in the first place.

Idk, I feel like there's also an element of purity culture here where there's this push to make people think they must only engage with art that aligns precisely with their moral stance, produces only positive emotions, and invites nothing but praise. If the art makes you feel bad in any way than it is bad and you have a duty to remove yourself from it post-haste just ignore that we wanted you gone the whole time. Frankly, I think we humans can handle a bit more complexity than that? Obviously, as said, you wouldn't want to make Art You're Upset With the be-all and end-all of your media engagement, and this certainly isn't a call for anyone to engage with triggers unless they're inclined to do so, but a story you're primarily here to critique, or—yes—even a bit of hate watching can be "fun" in a non-traditionally fun away. Just because the art hasn't made you grin and pump your fist in triumphant doesn't mean it's not worth interacting with as art.

[tobi-smp]

Hey can we. Not rehash the "vilbur" schtick with tommy? Especially not through Direct Comparisons.

Like, the original concept is ableist full stop, but at the Very Least you can argue that other characters had reason to be afraid in-universe. That Wilbur's goals were scary and upsetting.

That does not and Should Not justify the intense vilification of his character, treating a suicidal mental spiral like a Saturday morning cartoon villain At Best. But there is at least an alibi for the fandom portrayal, it's possible to see Why people were willing to fall into the tropes that they did at the time and say they genuinely didn't know better.

But

A: there has been an explicit and continued effort to seriously engage with and challenge that fan perception in canon. There is absolutely No Excuse to continue with that black and white vilification of that arc in 2022 and Least Of All with the ableist "insanity" trope. He's not a slasher villain, he was mentally ill and traumatized.

B: Are You Serious.

Are people genuinely for real making the actual take that tommy wanting to kill the Torturing Abusing Serial Killer With The Intent And Means To Torture Abuse And Serial Kill Both Tommy Himself And Everyone On The Server Is Tommy's "Descent Into Villainous Madness" Because His PTSD Is Too Front And Center.

Even Within the ableist slasher insanity tropes presented by Wilbur's fandom vilification, Dream Is The Canonical Serial Killer. Tommy Is Canonically Dream's Murder Victim. Tommy Literally Watched Dream Murder Multiple People In Front Of Him, And Attempt To Murder More. He Literally Watched Dream Try To Murder Quackity, His Friend, Like Two Months Ago. Tommy Is Literally Only Acting In Self Defense, And He's Doing So Reluctantly Because He Doesn't Actually Want Anyone To Die.

Like, I cannot stress enough that Wilbur's treatment by the fandom Is ableist, but what's happening with tommy now is people arguing that the protagonists in horror movies are the Real villains falling into insanity after all because they killed ghostface or Jason.

People are Really willing to pretend that someone defending themselves against a serial killer is some Scary Insanity Spiral if they're visibly traumatized by said serial killer serial killing them.

And the thing is, this being as blatant as it is doesn't Lessen the ableism pointed at wilbur's character, it strips it down and shows it for what it is. Because it's the Same it's the Exact Same intent and motivation from the same people.

I don't think they Know that what they're doing is vilifying stigmatized mental illness, but that's what it is. It's the trauma itself that's presented as scary.

[peachonified]

I have some anime recommendations.

I have STRUGGLED this year to find things to watch. I don't particularly like romance - it saps the storyline - and I like action/comedy. It's why I've always had a taste for sports anime.

So... this is just a starting point for the lost souls who are just after something, and don't know where to start. This is in no particular order, although prob related to how recently I watched it...

1. The Apothecary Diary

Set in a land in the far east, Maomao is sold to the back palace. From there she solves mysteries.

This is honestly such a great show! Intrigue, engaging characters, and you could absolutely read Maomao as aroace. This was a stand out.

I also love the opening song. Very Shakira-esque.

2. Another stand out was Death Mount, Death Play

I'm not a fan of super violence, so I almost didn't make it past ep 1... but I ADORED this show. The main character is amazing, the shark in the credits is so cute, the story is many faceted, and I seriously adored it! highly reccomend.

3. I wasn't expecting to enjoy God of High School.

Now, it absolutely does feel like it needs a second season, but it ended in a way that felt okay too... it is based on aKorean wrbcomic, but has japanes va's. It's an over powered fighting anime, with mystery powers and a very likable main character. It's got super baddies to hate, and it does edge into too violent for my taste, but still sat down and watched my way through it xD

4. Ah... my beloved sports anime. I'm gonna add Haikyuu! And Kuroko no Basket here. I mean... both are fandoms I write for xD

Haikyuu!! Is great as there are no real bad guys, and lots of growth all round.

Kuroko is basically magical high school boys who play high school basketball, but same thing: lots of character growth, lots of friendship.

One thing I love is how the boys cry? I mean that in a they are disappointed when they lose and aren't told to suck it up. I always appreciate that!

5. It's been hard to avoid isekai animes, and some of them are less than engaging, it is true. But some? Some are delightful!

5a So, I got reincarnated as a slime is one of my faves.

It's just... nice? Satisfying? It doesn't reaaaaally push any boundaries (although I love almost everything about the final arc). There's so many loveable characters, and it's alot of fun. It helps I've always loved slimes, so this overpowered one isno exception.

5b why Raeliana ended up at the dukes mansion is, yes a romance.

But its also fun. Our protagonist is reincarnated into a gane, as a character that they know will die. And they don't want to die! And so... this isthat story.

5c. This lead me down the reincarnated in a game pathway, and I came across My next life as a villainess: all roads lead to doom

You know those really dumb lovable characters? Well, I love Catarina. She is charming with a harem comorised if almost everyone she grew up with, and there's just something so delightful! I laughed outloud as much as i groaned at this one!

Older ones I reccomend:

Natsume's Book of friends

Slice of life about a boy who can see spirits. Definitely leans towards melancholy, but really leans into found family

2. Black Clover

Look. Get past Asta screaming in the first 20 eps and you've got some enjoyable action. The characterisation is

[trillscienceofficer]

re: your tags on that trek show misogyny poll I’m pretty sure you could make a poll that was like “which trek crew travelled the furthest distance” and for some reason ds9 would still be winning over voyager

I could even tell you how this argument would be laid out lmao (the wormhole to the gamma quadrant!)

But more seriously there's a definite DS9 bias right now on tumblr, which is kind of infuriating at times even for me (known DS9-biased tumblr user), but I guess it's something that developed fairly recently because it wasn't like this five years ago, when I got into tumblr Trek fandom, or not this much that I can remember in any case.

I can even understand why this happened in the first place! For so many years DS9 has been disparaged by so many Trekkies as being not real Trek, too dark, too focused on politics and too little about exploration, too difficult to follow in a syndicated tv landscape etc... and so now we're seeing the reaction to this, especially (I imagine) after the release of the DS9 Documentary, which had a pretty heavy-handed "we've been ignored for so long but now it's our time" slant.

I think thematically DS9 is also more appealing to the current tumblr userbase for many reasons, and I fell into the trap, early on, of comparing Voyager too directly with it. They're two shows that function very very differently, both thematically and on a structural level, and in order to appreciate both I think it pays off to understand that they're simply never going to be truly comparable. Not a lot of DS9 fans are willing to let go of expectations, and the same goes for some Voyager fans on the other side (this is not me being both-sides, it's just that I've seen Opinions over the years). And so Voyager gets completely dismissed even when it shouldn't.

I admit to still being a bit biased about DS9! If asked by a non-Trekkie which one to watch first, I'd probably still suggest DS9 (thought the correct answer would probably be 'start with season 3 of TNG'). But Voyager has truly amazing characters and incredibly layered relationships between them, and a story that while being episodic is still about the incredible, moving bond between this crew built over years as they survive to see another week. It deals with trauma and what it means to be a person, about what it takes to break and then mend friendships, about guilt and forgiveness, about the price paid to make life-or-death decisions every day. It's so quintessentially Star Trek, it's a shame that so many people refuse to meaningfully engage with it. I think they'd be very pleasantly surprised if they tried.

[leofiat-bunny]

Can't we watch and let watch?

I love Love LOVE the amount of meta this show is producing, the theories - ranging from plausible to unhinged to implausibly unhinged, the character interpretations, the evaluation of detail and just the sheer breadth of knowledge, skill, and talent this fandom possesses.

I love significantly less the the complaints that other fans are watching it WRONG. "Stop treating it as a melodrama", "stop ignoring bad actions", "stop exaggerating actions", "stop being biased", "stop taking it seriously", "stop having fun".

Yes, the creators probably want us to take specific things away from the series but "death of the author" - you are not REQUIRED to take away what they want you to.

If you want to treat this as a series portraying the realities of being queer university students in Thailand: have at.

If you want to treat it as a melodrama that is 1 scene away from becoming a whodunit: more power to you.

If you want to treat it as a cutesy BL: knock yourself out.

If you want to coddle one character and ignore every reason they should be in jail while wishing painful death on an objectively less guilty character: I look forward to your gif sets.

But coming from a different angle or pointing things out others have missed ("here's what I see 🕵️‍♀️") and getting annoyed because they're engaging in a different way ("why do people keep having this WRONG take?🤬") are very different things.

Let people have fun, even if that's isn't how you have fun. 🙏