#spoiler: they do not execute him

[mikkeneko]

Why do my self-indulgent emotional fictional scenarios require so much BACKSTORY. I’m not INTERESTED in hashing out the details of a post-sunshot  political landscape where the Jiang parents survived but Wei Wuxian was working on the side of the Wens, I’m INTERESTED in a story where Lan Xichen gets custody of a post-war fucked up WOMD Wei Wuxian entirely on the strength of his principles alone and gradually makes the transition from teeth-gritted “human life is the priority” to “oh holy shit this kid has been so fucked up and betrayed by literally every authority in his life”

[essektheylyss]

In terms of potential dunamancers for Essek to contact, I do think Uraya is a strong option, and I imagine there are others we aren't aware of since we were a little restricted in access to other dunamancers while in Rosohna (gee, Essek, wonder why that might've been...).

However, I do think it would be fun as a hypothetical to imagine his mother as one of them; she's the head of the den that is suggested to manage if not control the Dynasty's nexus of dunamantic research, the Marble Tomes Conservatory, so it's very possible she is an accomplished dunamancer of the arcane variety herself, especially in light of who she raised. I've previously tended to imagine her as a cleric of the Luxon, given her role as a religious figure, but considering that the Luxon doesn't differentiate much, it could go either way (even to the point of a multiclass, which honestly would be dope).

We have absolutely no basis of understanding her personal willingness to look past her son's transgressions, but given that he seems to think some would, and that the stakes are monumentally high, it's easy to think that his own mother might be among them. I mentioned last week that the information we have would suggest that she did actually live through the Calamity, and potentially was born in the later years of the Age of Arcanun. Even if she was in a position wherein she may have had sympathy for his situation but was not politically able to look past it, that may change if the stakes are, quite literally, apocalyptic.

But also, most importantly, it would be SO funny to me if Essek, epic-level wizard, international political fugitive, estranged from his family and culture at large, has to call in a favor from his mom.

[nnayomaise]

i think the thing that really gets me about all the "we've got to kill this guy kabru" meme redraws with mithrun is that in the very first conversation mithrun has with laios, he trusts him with, essentially the fate of the world and his life long revenge quest against the demon

[shalpilot]

how am i supposed to feel

transcript under cut

Killer: Since we're both here... why not make up for lost time? Doesn't that sound nice?

[clench]

Kid: STOP IT! STOP ACTING LIKE THIS!

Kid: You're being so -- WRONG! My PARTNER never said or did anything like this!

Kid: You're skin and bones and covered in scars and thinking of something like THAT?!

Killer: You're hurting me.

Kid: WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?! WHAT DID THEY DO TO YOU?!

[sophfandoms53]

Very minor spoilers for the rise movie

I don’t know how they managed to do this, but they somehow found a way to make the Leo flying/falling through a window trope even sadder and there wasn’t even a window this time. (Yes I cried)

[bidokja]

I was joking a while back that the actor they have playing KDJ for the orv movie was too handsome for him and a friend who's read orv was like "KDJ is actually secretly attractive!!" And I just felt my soul leave my body right then

SIGHS...

Okay. Buckle in. I'm gonna finally actually address and explain and theorize about this whole...thing.

I'm not gonna cite any exact chapters cause it's like 11:30 and I've got an 8 hour drive in the morning but I'll at least make an approximate reference to where certain things are mentioned. Also, this post is just my personal interpretation for a good bit of it, but it's an interpretation I feel very solid about, so do with that what you will. Moving on to the meat of things:

There is one (1) instance in the web novel that I know of which describes specific features of Kim Dokja (especially ones other people notice). This takes place when members of KimCom are trying to make Kim Dokja presentable to give his speech at the Industrial Complex (after it's been plopped down on Earth). This is when they start really paying attention and focusing on Kim Dokja's appearance since they're putting makeup on him; I still don't think they can interpret his whole face, but they can accurately pick out and retain more features than usual. If I remember correctly they reference him having long eyelashes, smooth skin, and soft hair. These features can be viewed as (stereotypically) attractive.

Certain parts of the fandom have taken this scene and run with it at a very surface level, without realizing (or without acknowledging at the very least) that this scene is not about how Kim Dokja looks. This is, in part, due to not realizing or acknowledging why Kim Dokja's face is "censored" in the first place, and what that censoring actually means. I think it's also possible that some people are assuming the censorship works like a physical phenomena rather than an altered perception.

I'll address that last point first. The censorship of Kim Dokja's features is not something as simple as a physical phenomena. It's not a bar or scribble or mosaic over his face. If that were true it'd be very obvious to anyone looking at him that his face is hidden. But his face is not hidden to people. They can look at him and see a face. If they concentrate on his eyes, they can see where he's looking. They know when he's frowning or grinning. They see a face loud and clear. But what face are they seeing? Because it's not really his, whatever they're seeing.

No one quite agrees on what he really looks like. And if they try and think about what he looks like, they can't recall. Or if they do, it's vague, or different each time. We notice these little details throughout the series. Basically, Kim Dokja's face is cognitively obscured. Something - likely the Fourth Wall, though I can't recall if this is ever stated outright - is interfering with everyone's ability to perceive him properly. This culminated in him feeling off to others; and since they don't even realize this is happening, they surmise that he is "ugly."

Moving on to the other point about what the censorship means: To be blunt, the censorship of his face is an allegory for his disconnect from the "story" (aka: real life, and the real people at his side). The lifting - however slight - of this censorship represents him becoming more and more a part of the "story" (aka: less disconnected from the life he is living and the people at his side). The censorship's existence and lifting can represent other things - like dissociation or depersonalization or, if you want to get really meta, the fact that he is all of our faces at once - but that's how I'd sum up the main premise of it. (The Fourth Wall is a larger part of the dissociation allegory, but that's for another post).

So you see, them noticing his individual features isn't about the features. It's not about the features! It doesn't matter at all which features got listed. Because they could describe any features whatsoever and it would not change the entire point of the scene. Because the point isn't what he looks like. The point is that they can truly and clearly see these features. For the first time. They are seeing parts of him for the first time. Re-read that sentence multiple times, literally and metaphorically. What does it mean to see someone as they are?

This is an extremely significant turning point dressed up as a dress-up scene.

---

P.S. / Additionally, I'm of the opinion that Kim Dokja is not handsome, and he is not ugly. He is not pretty, and he is not ghastly. Not attractive, nor unattractive. Kim Dokja isn't any of these things. More importantly, Kim Dokja can't be any of these things. The entire point of Kim Dokja is that you cannot pick him out of a crowd; he is the crowd. He's a reader. He's the reader. Why does he need to be handsome? Why must he be pretty? Why is him being attractive necessary or relevant? He doesn't, he doesn't, it's not. He is someone deeply deeply loved and irreplaceable to those around him, and someone who cannot even begin to recognize or accept that unless it's through a love letter masquerading as a story he can read. He is the crowd, a reader, the reader. He's you, he's me. He's every single one of us.

[thequeenofsarcaasm]

Satoru lost his top twice 😔 first Suguru and now this

[jahiera]

babygirl... why did you send 7000 vampire spawn down there then

[astrarche-x]

thinking about how we never have an actual flashback from the Ouyang clan execution and how that adds to the unreliability of Ouyang's narrative about his life and death. [sorry, long rant incoming bc i have feels]

Especially in regards to the scene when Ouyang is tasked with execution of Zhang Jr.: he thinks that he willingly chose to avenge his father and to bear the suffering of his fate when he was 10. But did he?

''He was giving him a chance for his death to have meaning. He should be grateful", he thinks in regard to Zhang Jr. So did he himself just stay alive for his death to have meaning? Or - what I suspect - did he just invent all this a posteriori to justify his will to live?

Apart from the fact that the scene with Ouyang killing Zhang Jr. is one of the most memorable in HWDTW for me for the layers that it has, it highlights one of the most fascinating facets of Ouyang: his will to live vs. his deathwish.

Obviously as his whole arc is about falling downhill, we as readers don't see much of the former, while the latter is in abundance especially in HWDTW. But nevertheless this tension is very much there.

As I said, we don't see - even through Ouyang's eyes - what went down that fateful day of the massacre; did he really beg for his life to avenge his family or just for the sake of it. But personally - I'm betting for the latter. Like, come on, he was 10 AND - more importantly - he DIDN'T know that Chaghan would have him castrated as he begged for mercy. He had no idea what the consequences would be. He might have thought about revenge; it's evident that even at 10 yo, the masculine ideals were already drilled into him. But he DIDN'T choose that with full awareness; it's something he told himself over the years to justify his will to live.

And I think this is the deepest root of his shame: that he so desperately wanted to live he could do anything. Him being an eunuch was shameful too, but not so much as the fact that he PREFERS it to being dead. This is what Chaghan calls him out on and this is why the scolding is such a turning point (something I didn't catch at first): Ouyang realizes that if he wants to live free of shame and justify his existence, he must have his revenge. But to do that - ironically - he must destroy himself.

The excuse he came up with over the years to make up for his will to live is that he is a tool of revenge; he is allowed to exist as long as he is this tool. Where the tragedy lies is that he never allowed himself to imagine that he could exist after his revenge is complete. Which is, I think, part of the reason why it took him so long to start plotting it: he wanted to live. He wanted to be with Esen. (The passage "He felt a surge of hatred towards the monk. [...] Without him, how much longer might Ouyang have had with Esen?" is one of the most heartbreaking in SWBTS imo). And I think that deep down he didn't even think his revenge was actually doable.

"[...] the monk had triggered the start of his journey towards his purpose. He couldn’t find it in himself to be grateful. It felt like a violation. A theft of something he hadn’t been ready to give up. Not innocence, exactly, but the limbo in which he could still fool himself that other futures were possible."

I think that these ''other futures'' were futures in which the opportunity for revenge never came; not so much as in ''his enemies were dead by other means'', but as in "Ouyang kept waiting but he just didn't get to meet the Khan" etc. And I think that in his mind, it would have been the best possible option - he could keep on living, waiting for the opportunity that somehow never came, but hey, his excuse of being a tool for revenge was still valid, right?? nobody could tell him that he didn't want it or forgot! he just didn't have the opportunity! oh, such bad luck, sorry not sorry. (And one day he would have died on the battlefield, possibly in Esen's arms, and it would be the best life he could have imagined).

But Zhu gives him the opportunity and he feels he must act on it, which means that his excuse for existing will soon be no longer valid, and it makes him so angry. I still don't get why he couldn't imagine a life after revenge; possibly because despite everything he LIKED this life - or, at least, liked it more than the alternative. Revenge meant destroying everything he enjoyed: his life as a general of the Yuan, and - more importantly - Esen. He probably didn't imagine a life for himself after revenge not only because he thought himself a tool to be discarded, but also because he didn't see in there anything worth living for. And this is when his deathwish comes in. It practically appears as soon as Esen is dead; and the rest is history, with Ouyang's ''I have to live because I must have my revenge and I sacrificed too much for it to walk away now!". But still, it strikes me how at the beginning of SWBTS he's clinging to life as he knows it despite it not being ideal, and how in HWDTW he is awaiting death eagerly.

And - circling back to Zhang Jr. - this is why Ouyang kills the boy: for Zhu it might have been tying up loose ends, but Ouyang at this point sees that staying alive wasn't worth it. He does what is better for the boy in his opinion; he even lets him die with honour, something he himself wants. He wishes he had chosen death all these years ago.

[hobisexually]

I have so many problems with karamo but the s8 finale… he sees an asian woman who has severe trauma surrounding her father due to (some) asian culture(s) not allowing people to properly talk to their parents about their emotions or issues with them because that could be seen as disrespectful, oui? so she hasn’t spoken to him after her mother died and that is hard, yes?

and this man chooses to surprise her in the car (after making her cry) with an unannounced FaceTime call with said father, which forces her to immediately talk about why she’s upset with him after three years of not speaking??????? without being prepared, without knowing what to say to a stubborn elderly asian man who never learned to deal with his emotions and fucked up because of it? REALLY?

the LEAST he could have done was tell her in advance so she could write it down for herself and so she could be prepared

sure they talked. sure they made a start. but at what cost. what violence did this wreak on her for no reason. jesus CHRIST THIS MAN ANGERS ME SO MUCH

[boypussydilf]

i saw on instagram someones au of simon just leaning really really hard into the “my fiance is a god now” thing and basically being a weird obsessive golb priest about it and at the time i thought it was kinda dumb and cheesy but my perspective has shifted now. that rocks

[forcedhesitation]

the end of wyll's quest is....interesting. it was VERY cool. I thought having the archetypal fairy tale prince go "slay the dragon" was a fitting ending, I just feel like it was....a little underwhelming in some ways.

more under cut

first and foremost- I wish that it was not possible for your tav/durge to converse with ansur. I wish that it automatically selected wyll, because I simply do not think that this entire scene has as much impact if it is not wyll at the forefront of everything. which is why I also have to complain about the emperor here.

the reveal that he is balduran is.... well. I knew about this already, through accidental spoilers. Initially, I thought it was a stupid reveal. but reframing the reveal in the context of a fairy tale...well it makes perfect sense. it just FEELS a bit underwhelming and strange, because your player character is not wyll. this entire area feels like it was written with an avatar wyll in mind. and I wish that there were changes made to the companion wyll version of the game that made up for this. wyll is a character who is hugely tied to the main plot by virtue of being the duke's son. he spends the game searching for his father, while trying to deal with both mizora and the absolute. mizora is the one he sold his soul to to save the city before, the reason he was cast out. the absolute wants to destroy and steal his city. and ansur, a legendary dragon, might be his way of saving the city and getting his father's approval back. ansur had wanted to kill balduran because balduran had been infected with a mindflayer parasite, but had embraced his illithid nature rather than rejected it. I feel like there's some parallel that can be made to wyll there. in that he was othered, like balduran was, because he accepted mizora's help. ansur condemned balduran because ansur is a bronze dragon and therefore lawful good. wyll's father exiles wyll because wyll was "at best a fool, at worst a traitor," in his father's eyes and his father tolerated neither. wyll & balduran are both victims of the inflexible nature those of lawful good alignments have. they are both seen as monsters for what happened to their bodies. I wish that was emphasised a little more. like autoselecting wyll for the ansur dialogue & giving him dialogue with the emperor would have made this ending feel a little more complete, in my opinion. and it would have better demonstrated the point of having the emperor even be balduran. because that's such a fairy tale thing, the stuff of real legend! for the hero's mysterious guide to actually be some great old hero thought to be long dead. and I do think it works. it just doesn't feel as impactful if wyll is not your avatar.

I also wish this area was overall bigger & more developed. I know they redid wyll's character from EA. I know they had less time. I just. I wish that this area was as detailed as the sharran temple in act 2. it feels like SUCH a big deal, it feels like it should be bigger. especially since at lvl 12, you're just. unkillable.

but the dialogue afterwards, where he says he's in the mood for celebration and wants to make a celebratory dinner? SO CUTE!!! that man's joy is contagious!!! I could practically feel him holding back how much he just wanted to jump around with joy. and the sweet little "let's hope gale won't be too upset that I'm cooking for once and not him." I love you. you are too fucking sweet wyll. this fucking city does not deserve you. this playerbase does not deserve you. you are a true gem and I wish people saw you are just as beautiful and interesting as astarion and gale.

a cool possible scene they could add, to given wyll's questline more material IS that dinner he talks about. or preparation for it! something where he asks tav/durge to taste the food beforehand? or where your avatar can ask him about where he learned to cook, prompting him to talk about his time as the blade of frontiers? out in the sword coast on his own? this scene could easily be platonic or romantic, but be given extra options for a romantic relationship. but something like this could truly be added at an earlier point in the game too, it doesn't have to be tied to this particular moment.

but overall really cool area of the game. very cool bossfight. and a rather clever ending to wyll's quest, contrary to what his haters say. I love the commitment to the fairy tale theme. it just needs a bit more. maybe it feels more satisfying if you've romanced him. although I've heard his act 3 romance scene is currently bugged? his unromanced questline is slightly bugged (doesn't rob you of any material, though, it just replayed some dialogue for me). either way, I hope that gets fixed asap. I so badly need to experience this romanced version in my other campaign.

[frogalor]

AND SPEAKING OF JJK!!! i hate y’all for getting me into this. i’ve been so anti-falling-for-hot-evil-guy and making fun of y’all for it, but do you know who my two loves are in this goddamn show??? TOJI AND FUCKING GETO. i’m fine, i’m fine.

[unofficialadamtaurus]

"Guys, I know things are bad but -"

"Shut. Up. Don't...do that. Just don't."

Top 10 moment in the show.

[lavenderjewels]

I appreciate the love for Shoko but all the theories about her somehow resurrecting gojo from death is really setting her up for disappointment

[thebookworm0001]

Did not realize that accepting Bhaal gives you the ability to cast Power Word Kill