#tgitf

[doverstar]

So the way Steven Moffat wrote The Girl In The Fireplace, now that we have access to that script, is odious, particularly in the way he handled Rose in between dialogue. Was surprised to learn he is a writer every bit as childish and pompous as the episode makes him seem.

[casasupernovas]

diabolical.

[gcballet]

Doctor Who as tweets/textposts pt.4

<- | DW | ->

[darklinaforever]

Deconstructing Moffat fanboys (and why they will ALWAYS choose to believe Ten was in love with and shagged Reinette)

I want to say that the ideas in this meta are not entirely my own – I’ve gotten a lot of help and feedback from MEN irl. MEN AS IN MALE. And that’s something I want to highlight bc of the very nature of what I will be saying here. A lot of people are getting upset over the latest Moffat fan to hit the Internet today, via that Digital Spy article (which I won’t link to, out of principle lol).

I – and every other Doctor Who fan with a sense of justice and a keyboard – has written meta about the inherent sexism in Moffat episodes, but that’s not what this post is about: it’s about the inherent sexism of the fanboys, and why our very valid arguments are doomed to fail. In particular, this is about their sexism, and why they cheer on every one of the Doctor’s romantic escapades (both real and imagined), except for one … Rose Tyler. Why is that? Is it classism? Maybe. Sexism??? Definitely.

It’s important to take a big step back, and look at the fanboys, and how a lot of them initially became Doctor Who fans: because a LOT of them are Classic Who fans, or at least had it on their peripheral radar (and conversely, the show didn’t have nearly as many female fans back then as it does today). These concepts are almost definitely related. Prior to 2005, the Doctor was a lone figure. He wasn’t always handsome – but he was brilliant. He saved the day. He was respected – and when he wasn’t, he proved himself and brought his enemies to heel. He had hot companions that he never looked twice at because he didn’t need to. He was powerful, and smart …

… and pretty much the perfect character for a geeky male tween/teen to self-identify with. Particularly males who maybe had a bit of a hard time with women—which, let’s face it, although stereotypes are often a bad thing, the stereotype of a geeky male who is uncomfortable with women is still culturally relevant.

Fast forward to 2005. Billie Piper is the companion. And she’s hot, right? In a girl-next-door kind of way (probably the girl you could never get a date with). And there’s some flirtation with Nine, but nothing you can’t really handwave away if you’re so freaking totally excited that your favorite show is back on the air after a long hiatus, and the writer’s don’t push things too far. (This, I believe, is where I think a lot of the “I liked Rose — but only in season 1” comments come from). And Nine dies for her – and not in the same distant way that Five dies for Peri, by handing her the poison’s antidote instead of taking it himself. Nine kisses her. This is the stuff of discomfort here (and probably where a lot of the “Bad Wolf wasn’t really Rose – it was the TARDIS!!” stuff comes from).

Now let’s fast forward to 2006. Again, Billie is the companion, but this time she sizzles on screen with David Tennant. And they are clearly in love, they are written to be in love. You’re a fan, you watch the confidentials, and you read DWM, and it’s all over the place. And here is your male childhood hero, the hero on TV you identify with because he’s not the kind of Casanova that you will never be either, because he never needed to be–and look at him. He’s fawning all over Rose. She’s just a stupid companion. She’s no different from anyone else!! But he fucking cries when she leaves?? Wtf is this bullshit about him practically being suicidal in The Runaway Bride? WHY WON’T HE SHUT UP ABOUT HER IN S3?? He is NOT supposed to be emotionally reliant on women. He is supposed to be YOU. And YOU’RE not emotionally reliant on women—particularly not those who are all kind of girl-next-door and kind of remind you of the girl you could never get a date with in high school. That is NOT her place. He shouldn’t even NOTICE her!!

… so what do you do?

You hone into episodes like Girl in the Fireplace. Let’s think like an angry cis white male for a minute here:

1)      Option 1 is that you have problems with the characterization and sexism in the script, because it’s very OOC and the Doctor’s character arc is compromised in many ways, including but not limited to the fact that he no longer acts like he’s in love with the companion who now pisses you the hell off for reasons stated about

2)      Option 2 is that he sidelines his useless companion, just like she’s meant to fucking be sidelined. He doesn’t notice her. He falls in love with someone else – someone who WAITS for him, because he is an allegory for you, and he is just that damn awesome that girls will do that. She’s hot and famous and has a huge rack, and even though the episode’s writer and DWM come right out and say he never screwed her, you insist upon it. Not because you don’t know better – but because it means that Rose is now back to being the companion she should be (e.g. “I really hated Rose in s2 – except for Girl in the Fireplace, she was great in that one!”)

Why doesn’t this extend to other ships, you may ask? Because Rose was unique in that since then, the Doctor has never been so emotionally reliant – indeed, repeatedly emasculated, for multiple seasons, in their opinion – by a love interest. (e.g. “I really hated how he moped over Rose – he never moped over Dodo!”)

River Song – first off, he’s not exactly written to be in love with her. He’s alluded to have sex with her, and spar with her—she’s a sassy, sexy match, and he never really mourns her extensively.

QE1 – he shagged her and they broke up

Reinette – Reinette who? (After GitF, she’s never mentioned again)

Astrid – ditto

Lady Christina – ditto

Lynda-with-a-Y – ditto

Jabe – ditto

Joan – it wasn’t really the Doctor, and again, except for feeling bad about the incident in The End of Time, by all appearances he’s over it as quickly as with the others

Rose is clearly different. VERY different. And that’s why he was NEVER in love with her, and she WASN’T special, and that’s why he FELL IN LOVE WITH REINETTE, and that’s why he SHAGGED REINETTE, and that’s why S1 ROSE WAS BETTER, and that’s why MOFFAT IS A BETTER WRITER, and that’s why … ((insert fanboy opinion trope here)).

It all comes down to this: Rose mattered. Rose touched the Doctor’s life in a way that fanboys don’t want to admit they would have liked to have been touched during their formative years, when he was an allegory for them. And to this very day, it pisses them off.

[sygzie]

series 2 is funky it has to exist in this weird suspension of disbelief in rose’s mortality. they sort of confront it (like sr/tgitf) but i swear they devolve and keep deifying rose until they’re like deluded into subconsciously thinking she’ll be with him forever. “i believe in her” is of course a really lovely moment about his faith in her ability to save herself but it also alludes to the way that throughout the season he develops SO much faith in her that she's seen with an almost inhuman level of invincibility.. like just a few minutes later is "[the devil] said i was going to die in battle"/"then it lied." it also makes me think of "how long are you going to stay with me"/"forever"--it's of course not true and they both know this logically but they just smile at each other bc at this point they're willing to pretend for as long as they can no matter how dire the consequences. then it all comes crashing down in doomsday but interestingly tentoo ultimately comes down to meet her in her humanity instead of the inverse, and really that's what they needed all along. s2 is just them clinging to each other in this bubble of derangement with a glee that we never really see again in the doctor and it's about hubris and irrationality and love and it's so fucked and sooo good

[quantumshade]

the only good things to come out of tgitf is the music and how pretty rose looked <3

LITERALLY YOU GET IT

[starlitreading]

New RPG created by my friends! It's got great art and succeeds at emphasizing exploration where games like D&D fail!

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/376047/The-Gap-in-the-Fence-Player-Guide

[doverstar]

hate to burst our ship bubble here but I think Moffat’s tone is being misread. he has only ever regarded Rose and Rose/Doctor with contempt and exasperation, even in-script. pretty sure he wrote this to mean “oh no, not her again, will the Doctor never be rid of the clingy girlfriend?”

BOTH TEN AND ELEVEN…..Oh how dare they not show of them doing this in the 50th

[not-that-debonair]

Damn The Girl in the Fireplace is one of those really weird episodes...like I love some of the one liners (hell I’m pretty sure my url is one of them) but like...the actual storyline, more specifically the relationship and characterisations of 10 and Reinette is really nonsensical and uncomfortable to me...idk though what do other people think of that episode cause it’s a strange one

[spaceymcspaceship]

DAY THREE aka 5 more eps down 150ish more to go

the woman who lived

circa 1651

Functionally Immortal Crew returns!

goddamn ashildr 

maisie williams kills it this ep

again with the shades of grey bc for one i’m like doc you just left her for hundreds of years that’s cold

but i’m also like damn ashildr humanity still matters you can’t just kill them

also more witchhunting references in case we forgot which century we were in

anyway another solid one for books 

and i still love 12

the curse of the black spot

circa 1699

can someone not die or almost die for TWO MINUTES

11 era i stg

hugh bonneville??? the historic eps are v popular for big name guest stars like half of them so far have had them

pirate shenanigans what’s not to love

again i don’t remember like any of 11′s era so i do not recall what the end scene was all about lol

the girl in the fireplace

circa 1700s

and also 5000 but that date was in the middle of a ton of future 10 eps and other than this there were no 18th century eps so here we go!

god this is classic early doctor who

waiting on the doc to save the day also u have a crush on him

also just this ep is the first slide in my 143 page long power point presentation called Let 13 Kiss a Girl 

every time the doc snogs/is snogged by woman i give another tedtalk

extra points if it’s an historical figure

he

he literally rides in on a white horse

he’s worth the monsters

but also

ROSE

rose rose rose 

when she goes to warn her she’s so nervous and they’re both scared my heart

‘i’m always alright’

oh no 10 that was right in my 13 feels 

catch me crying in the tardis

okay but finally the irony of 10 asking a noble in pre-revolutionary france how one gets money i’m cackling

thin ice

circa 1814

12 and bill 12 and bill 12 and bill

bill being in love with the tardis! i love u bill

i really really love the way they handle bill seeing someone die. the scene where she confronts 12 about how many people he’s killed is so good! you know what he’s going to say before he says it and it kills you just as much as it kills him to say it!!

auughhhhh

but then they properly follow up on this later by having bill make the decision which seems cruel at first but then u start to realize that it’s a test that bill passes with flying colors (bc she’s bill and she’s amazing)

‘progress isn’t defined by industry. it’s measured by the value you put on a life. an unimportant life.’ i love 12!!!!

anyway def one of my top episodes

haunting of villa diodati

circa 1816

okay i’m cheating a bit bc i started this like last week in a season 12 rewatch so i’m actually just watching the last half of it lol

but i could probably do a one woman show of all of season 12 at this point so

me after just half of a 13 ep: :’) i love her so much 

no seriously i’ve said so much on this ep need i say more?

i’m curious as i continue my watch to revisit the moments where the doc is truly out of their depth

like more than being concerned or brief fear or them momentarily outwitted

like truly out of their league and know they can’t win

bc jodie kills it here

and i’m calling it for the evening. we’ll see what i get to tomorrow since it’s back to work....

[rjalker]

(OOC Doctor Who episodes, will update as we get to them)

OOC eisodes for Nine and Rose: ? ? We skipped the one written by M/ffat because he sucks so maybe that one is maybe it isn’t IDKAIDC.

OOC episodes for Ten and Rose: School Reunion, UH whatever the two part episode that introduces the Cyberman is called. Why? because the Doctor would never make Rose do something she hates and he would not laugh at her being miserable. Also, Rose isn’t going to be thAT FUCKING STUPID AGAIN when it comes to Pete Tyler and also?????? wHY IS SHE SO DESPERATE TO SEE JACKIE SHE’S ACTING LIKE JACKIE’S DEAD IT’S RIDICULOUS AND DOESN’T MAKE ANY FUCKING SENSE

EDIT:!!!! I forgot about the girl in the fireplace because we fucking skipped right the fuck over that with no hesitation because it sucks anf Moffat sucks and he’s gross as fUCK

OOC episodes for Ten and Martha: The Family of Blood

OOC episodes for Ten and Donna: 

[casasupernovas]

rose should have gone home after 'the girl in the fireplace.' imagine beefing the previous episode because you found out you weren't as special as you thought, only to put your foot down because you're convinced you two have something only for him to quite literally leave you for another woman in the next episode.

now in my au, the ending is still the same, doomsday still happens but differently. the doctor travels and mickey stays, and in parallel earth we see parallel rose (mickey stays and she and jackie die in order for the doomsday ending to still work) and we get the rose cameos in 'love and monsters' and rose gets pushed back into the story because of torchwood at the end.

[hellishfig]

doctor who rewatch musings

i have mixed emotions about “The Girl in the Fireplace” (mostly due to the Doctor’s treatment of Rose during the episode) but it is STILL iconic. every scene has an iconic line. Mickey and Rose going off after the Doctor leaves? iconic. “what do monsters have nightmares about?” “me!”? iconic. “i’m the Doctor, and i just snogged Madame du Pompadour!”? iconic. “there could be anything on this ship!” *horse is on the ship*? iconic. the whole thing with the banana daiquiris and “mister thick thick thickety thickface from thicktown, thickania! and so’s your dad!”? ICONIC. it’s great. and despite Reinette being lowkey the reason the Doctor is so shitty to Rose, i like her. yeah, i’ve read fics where she’s a shitty person, and i like those fics sometimes (if they’re well written), but they portray her pretty well in the show in my opinion. i like her. i’m sad when she dies. her story with the Doctor is fascinating and the fact that it detracts from the story between the Doctor and Rose should not be the sole thing the episode is judged on.

tl;dr: gitf is a good fucking episode

[dumbfilmschoolkid]

rose stans what is our official stance on reinette’s “one may tolerate a world of demons for the sake of an angel” quote

[my-chemical-mermaid]

This is one of those episodes that critics love but fans aren't that big on.

Ten acting OOC is a big downside but the major flaw of TGitF is it's super boring. Most of the episode is Ten and Reinette standing around in rooms and talking.

The most interesting parts of the episode is the ship running on human organs, the horse, and the clockwork robots. But those take a backseat to talking about how cool and special Reinette and the Doctor are. Rose and Mickey are underutilized as well.

There are some really interesting sci-fi concepts in this episode, I really wish those were the focus. But they're buried by boring and OOC writing.

Sorry Screen rant, I don't know who you are but I don't think you've ever watched Doctor Who in your life.

Most people hate this episode because it's soooooooooooooo OOC for ten

[spiralboi]

"What's a horse doing on a spaceship?"

"Mickey, what's pre-revolutionary France doing on a spaceship? Get a little perspective!"

One of my Doctor Who quotes 😂