#the music cut-off?

[jus-alilcomforblelad]

when i say nrh dynamic

you don't understand. he's everything

[sage-nebula]

"Suffer No Fools" - Shiver vs. Marina Analysis

It's been a few days since "Suffer No Fools" released, but I wanted to go ahead and release my analysis of Shiver's and Marina's verse since that's the one that has caused the most discussion within the fandom. I've seen a lot of debate over Marina's section in particular, with people unsure whether she was being sincere or sarcastic, and I think the actual answer is a little more complicated than one or the other, at least with regards to the first couplet of lines both she and Shiver sing. Of course, people are free to interpret this song however they wish, but after seeing numerous interpretations I personally didn't vibe with, I just wanted to put my own out there, breaking it down line by line.

So! Here we go.

Exchange 1:

Shiver: "Your haunting voice -- there's no escape. How nice it must be for your fans." Marina: "You're far too kind! I love your vibe. I can learn so much from your style."

Analyzing from dialogue only:

Shiver is insulting Marina's voice by calling it haunting and saying there is no escape, insinuating she wishes there was one. She says how nice it must be for Marina's fans, again implying that she isn't one.

Marina says that she loves Shiver's vibe, which on the surface could be a compliment, but given the context (a music battle) it could also be a Mean Girl "ooh I love your [thing] :)" passive-aggressive drawing-attention-to-something-ugly insult. More direct though, is the "I can learn so much from your style"; you can learn what not to do from someone just as much as you can learn what to do from someone. Marina's engaging in plausible deniability here.

HOWEVER. Lyrics are NOT the only thing that need to be analyzed from this first verse, which is arguably the MOST important exchange between these two. Instead, we need to look at how these lines are delivered.

Shiver is singing in a traditional Japanese folk singing style, specifically a style based on Shima-uta, which her voice actress has a background singing in. Unfortunately, I don't know the actual term for this style of singing, only that it's not kakegoe, something Shiver also does that is different from this. Anyway, in these lines specifically Shiver is singing in her Shima-uta style, a style that she has presumably been practicing since she was a small child, a style that is probably culturally significant to the Hohojiro clan. Singing in this style is not something that just anyone can do. It's completely different from singing in a (for lack of a better word) "western" style. The way you breathe is completely different. The way you incorporate your voice into your breathing is completely different. So by singing in this style, which Shiver has been doing practically her whole life and which, presumably, only she of the four there can do, Shiver is FLEXING on Marina regardless of what lyrics she chooses to sing.

But then Marina, who grew up under the domes in Inkadia, who presumably has never heard Shima-uta before she started listening to Deep Cut and heard Shiver sing, who presumably has had absolutely no training whatsoever on this style of song . . . mimics it perfectly and flexes on Shiver right back.

Could Marina's words to Shiver be interpreted as passive-aggressive in turn? Yes. But does it matter? No, not really. Because in this first verse, Marina's ACTUAL comeback is to take the style of singing that Shiver has been perfecting her entire life and throw it right back in her face despite having never (as far as we or Shiver know) practiced it herself. Shiver was flexing by presumably doing something Marina couldn't do, only for Marina to do it flawlessly, being every bit as divine with a voice so fine as Pearl said she was previously. Marina says "I love your vibe" so she takes it. Marina says "I have so much to learn from you" but does she really, when she can already do exactly what Shiver can, and has, just now, right in front of her?

And Shiver noticed, hence:

Exchange 2:

Shiver: "You remind me of my neighbor's little daughter . . . What's that saying? 'Octo see, octo do.'" Marina: "Glad you approve -- your praise has left me moved. Thanks to your notes, I'll find my groove!"

Shiver drops the Shima-uta singing, because now there's no point. Marina can also sing in that style, so it's no longer a flex. Shiver lost ground on that one, so instead we're back to the same (again, for lack of a better word) "regular" style of singing that everyone else is using. For that reason, we can go back to analyzing purely based on the words alone.

Shiver is calling Marina a copycat, essentially, because Marina copied her Shima-uta singing style in the previous verse (hence why Shiver had to drop it, as previously noted). Marina then gives her "glad you approve -- your praise has left me moved" . . . basically noting that by Shiver accusing her of copying, Shiver is saying that Marina -- someone who just tried the singing style off the cuff right there on the stage for the first time -- was just as good as Shiver, someone who has trained in that style her whole life. The audience saw for themselves that Marina was able to emulate the style, but Shiver saying, "you copied me!" is basically admitting that Marina was just as good as her in Shiver's own eyes, and Shiver is a pro. That's Shiver's aggravation handing Marina the win and Marina smiling wide as she accepts it.

Exchange 3:

Shiver: "Oh, look at the time. Isn't it getting late?" Marina: "Not at all! I could go on like this all night long."

This one doesn't even really need an analysis. For all that she prides herself on being "so cool even sharks call her cold-blooded," Shiver is known for being easily irritated and riled when she's losing due to her competitive nature. Marina successfully got under her skin, and this is her trying to end the battle fast because she didn't have any further comebacks. Marina, meanwhile, gives the classic "I could go on all night" because she's not riled at all, and is instead perfectly comfortable in this environment, knows what she's doing, and has had the upper hand from the start.

It goes back to another post I made about Experience vs. Inexperience. Shiver and Frye are still new idols, whereas Pearl and Marina have been at this for a long while. And while off the stage Marina is a sweet, kind, gentle person who will go out of her way to help others, and can sometimes be a little spacey or naive, she's also a 23-year-old literal genius who has been in the music industry for years now and knows full well what a rap / music battle is and knows her way around a stage. Personally, I found it to be a little infantilizing to insinuate that she "didn't realize Shiver was insulting her," when not only do I think she knew full well, but also she was the one with the upper hand not because of sick burns (that's Pearl's department), but because of sheer innate musical talent.

But those are just my thoughts! Everyone else is free to have their own.

[rongzhi]

From getting rejected from The Rap of China 2024, to releasing a diss track that led to a viral meme, the song that was once rejected and misremembered as a song for his grandmother now has a music video, produced in partnership with the Liangshan Yi Autonomous Prefecture Cultural Tourism Bureau and promoted by Sichuan Cultural Tourism!

The song is sung in both Mandarin and Yi (the language of the Yi ethnic group, of which Lodmemo/Nuomime is a part of).

English added by me :)

[yourlocalabomination]

I saw people talking about how Ted would own so many patterned button ups and had the AWFUL realisation me and this man would share a closet.

(Also long haired Ted propaganda be upon ye)

[loafbud]

Marina when she tryna diss Shiver in Suffer No Fools

[latenightsundayblues]

End of the pier, end of the bay

You tug my arm and say

"Give in to lust, give up to lust

Oh, Heaven knows we'll soon be dust"

(based on the bullet wound fingering scene from the Unofficial Saw Musical. There came a moment where i just stopped fussing with it to make the colors and composition work, looked at what i had and went "ah what the hell i cant do nothing about this anymore". So here it is. Still like it a lot tho) ((psssttt hey @goofalicousgooberface this was hugely inspired by your drawing based on the exact same scene so thanks!!!!))

[doctorsiren]

very short idea I scribbled out today before my ASL class because I was anxious about my test

[artoutforblood]

End // First // Previous // Bonus

[kepler69b]

WHY DONT I EVER HEAR ANYONE TALKING ABOUT THE SPLSTOON LIVE PERFORMANCE POSTERS??? THEYRE SO GORGEOUS?? THEYVE BEEN MY WALLPAPERS FOR AGES

[tanoraqui]

I’m here to chew on the House of Fëanor like a tiger with a pumpkin full of raw beef, not to defend any of their actions, but, man, sometimes I see Second Kinslaying discourse and I just gotta be like…

i mean they did also kill jesus try to regain the 2 Silmarils from Morgoth first. that was a pretty significant thing that happened. like i understand where you’re coming from here but they very much did try to regain the 2 Silmarils from Morgoth first.

Like what the FUCK do you think the Union of Maedhros and the goddamn Nirnaeth Arnoediad was FOR.

[rocketbirdie]

destiny intersects with the ruined reactor...

little details!

[redinahedge]

i love that in the new song marina doesn’t even diss shiver like at all yet pearl’s still like “YEAH HOWD YOU LIKE THAT!? THATS MY WIFE, BITCHESSSSS WOOOOOOOO!!!! I FUCKING LOVE MY WIFE”

[brucespringsteencomments]

[ded-lime]

really going for the multilingual speedrun here huh

[arsenicalofarsons]

I love love love these designs and how they reference their beta ones

[azuremist]

Small fish, stick to your bowl. We're money makin', rakin', takin' control. Watch this - I'll show you kids the art of diss! Listen- Step back! Don't need you hacks. I- We're glory houndin', poundin'- Wait your TURN! News for you, Princess- you're not the boss here. Don't waltz into our turf expecting us to cheer! Where's your big buddy to help you pass this test? Tuneless, too-stressed, true pests, two goons making a mess! Yap-yap-yap, your jaws go flap-flap-flap, but tell me, who's backing you up? Imaginary friends? Check behind - she's divine, one of a kind, voice so fine, BIG mind! How nice for you that you got your own grouper! As if! Listen to this!

Your haunting voice - there's no escape. How nice it must be for your fans. You're far too kind! I love your vibe! I can learn so much from your style. You remind me of my neighbor's little daughter... What's that saying? "Octo see, Octo do." Glad you approve - your praise has left me moved. Thanks to your notes, I'll find my groove! Oh, look at the time. Isn't it getting late? Not at all! I could go on like this all night long.

How's that? Had enough yet?!