#think about how falin feels knowing that even though marcille and laios loved her they ended up taking a decision

[ladsofsorrow24]

i think some of you are too used to genre conventions, you guys forgot to question the worldbuilding that many authors painstakingly made to question the subject of death and life in a more nuanced manner than just "wow resurrection is so romantic!"

[stuck-in-jelly]

I don’t know if im really looking into it too much but something I keep going back to is Marcille telling her party about her idea to use dark magic to revive Falin

Its easy to see she is devoted to Falin and really is willing to do anything to bring her back, we can see it as Chilchuck and Senshi scold her she is resolved and uncaring towards their opinions on ancient magic. Its even more clear in the manga how quickly she brushes them off

But even though she seems to have already made up her mind about doing this regardless of what others think of her she still turns to Laios and essentially ask for his consent to revive his sister.

And of course without a second of hesitation Laios says yes

But its the fact that she still asked him that gets me

Despite her feelings and what she wants and is more than willing to do she still doesn’t make a move to begin until she hears Laios’s answer.

She looks worried for a moment that he’ll say no but they both love Falin endlessly and despite their differences they respect and care about each other as well there was a reason only Laios knew Marcille’s real speciality because Marcille knew Laios wouldn’t judge

There was no reality in which Laios says no but she still waits

It feels sweet despite the dark topic they really are friends

[ambrosiagourmet]

Did Laios have a plan

... when he made his deal with the Lion? How much of it was intentional and how much of it was out of his control?

Well. If I'm being honest I don't really want to try and provide a definitive answer to that question, because I think the ambiguity is, itself, part of the story. I've gone back and forth a few times myself, and I don't think either category - "fully intentional" or "fully coincidence" - is entirely true.

That being said, I would like to point out a few things that I've seen taken for granted as true. Things that, imo, are much more about the character's perspective, or about what the character WANTS people to think (well, that's really just the Winged Lion).

Consider this not exactly an argument for "Laios masterminded everything from the start and saved the world with his cunning," but more... "Laios considered what he was doing more than people give him credit for." Make sense?

Alright then, let's go:

So to start with, I want to show every time (that I could find, at least) that the question of 'does Laios have a plan' gets brought up. This is specifically after his Ultimate Monster Form is revealed, to be clear - the question isn't about if he has a plan in general, it is if he has/had a plan when he made this specific deal with the Lion.

Here they are:

-

-

You'll notice, in all of these instances, there never really is an answer given to the question. Either because there is no way to get one, or, with Kabru at the end there, because he explicitly doesn't let Laios answer. There's even a bit of an arc here: we start with a sort of desperate 'I've mostly given up but maybe this isn't as bad as it looks,' then get a more optimistic 'maybe we really are saved,' and finally end on 'it all worked out in the end, so we maybe don't need to know.'

But, as much as there is some genuine growth in Kabru's 'accept the outcome, rather than dissecting the truth,' I also think it says a lot more about him than about Laios. Kabru is the one trying to handle his questions and his uncertainty - as he said, he wants to confirm his judgement of character. He wants to feel like he had control over things.

And he lets that go! But he also doesn't actually get the truth, either, and his implied assumption here (that Laios, the wide-eyed monster-lover, probably just followed his desires), still relies on his judgements and assumptions about Laios.

But okay, these bits are all focused on the characters theorizing about Laios. How about we look at the character who actually tells us the facts ("facts"): the Winged Lion.

The Winged Lion has quite a bit to say about Laios and his monster form.

He says that Laios hates humanity, and would rather be a monster

I've talked about this a bit already, but the Lion makes a lot of claims and assumptions about Laios that aren't necessarily true.

First of all, let's just make sure we clearly establish that the Lion is being manipulative here. That may seem obvious, but it's important to understand that there is a difference between 'the truth' and 'a version of the truth specifically framed to prey upon your deepest shame and insecurities about what you really want.'

To point out a few quick-and-dirty contradictions here:

If Laios really hated all other humans, then the Lion wouldn't hinge so many of his other arguments on Laios' love for Falin and his friends.

the Lion claims that Laios "[doesn't] even care enough about the future of [the] world to express an opinion about it," even though Laios has literally expressed opinions on what he wants for the world, to the Lion's face.

In general, the Lion does not make a distinction between urges and choices (see, for instance: him using Marcille's subconscious fear of the canaries as a way to keep her from stopping the monsters from attacking in chapter 86).

I'm not saying there is not a piece of truth here, but also... we are not our darkest thoughts, and we especially are not those thoughts as defined by someone who wants to hurt and control us.

But let’s move on to the stuff the Lion claims about Laios once he has been turned into his monster form.

2. He says that (or rather, acts like) Laios is under his control

The Lion really enjoys grandstanding about how Monster Laios is an ultimate tool he has control over. He gloats about making Laios fight the others, and has him smash through the magical barrier.

But smashing the barrier is kinda the only thing that Monster Laios actually does for the Lion. He doesn't attack anyone. He doesn't hurt his friends, despite Chilchuck thinking that Laios has "turned completely into a monster." And he certainly doesn't simply let the Lion go through with his plan to eat everyone.

This barrier smashing is actually an interesting and odd thing for Laios to have done specifically, so remember that one. I'll come back to it later.

But, yeah, to the original point... despite the Lion's dramatics, all that Monster Laios does is pose, smash up a magic barrier, and then eat him. Not exactly under his control.

AND SPEAKING OF EATING THE DEMON...

3. He frames Laios attacking and eating him as thoughtlessly violent

This one is pretty funny to me, and the Lion keeps it up for the whole scene. I'm not sure how much of this is his genuine understanding of the situation, and how much is him intentionally framing things in the most insulting manner, but like... truly. The ego involved in this. To see someone who has, multiple times, tried to stand against you - someone who has literally wished for your non-existence, to your face - to see this person attack you, specifically, and have your first reaction be 'huh, I guess he's a reckless weirdo to the core???'

Incredible stuff.

And this part, too:

He claims that Laios can't recognize anyone, that he's out of control. And yet, the Lion is the only person that gets eaten here. He is Laios' singular target.

Hell, Laios even specifically attacks one of the bodies that is actively hurting Chilchuck. I don't know if that was entirely intentional on Laios' part, but I do think it's notable.

The Lion torments Laios' friend, and when Laios does something that interrupts that action, the Lion reframes it as unhinged violence. I don't know, there's something here about the way that cruel people only talk about the things people do to resist them as violent, and ignore the violence that causes such resistance in the first place.

In any case, the main point is that the Lion insists on treating Laios like an unthinking animal during this fight, despite the fact that Laios is clearly trying to accomplish something here.

And what exactly is Laios trying to accomplish? Well, the Lion isn't entirely wrong. Laios is trying to eat something. He tells us as much.

And truly, everything Laios does as a monster points to this. He had a goal. And he accomplished it.

Let me back up a moment. I need to explain smashing the barrier.

So, Laios first starts considering how to kill the Lion when he is confronted with the fact that his only other choice would be to kill Marcille. Immediately and entirely discarding that solution, because of course he does, he tries to wrap his head around what defeating the Lion would even look like.

He clearly continues thinking about this, as a nearly identical conversation happens a few chapters later, when Laios is once again told that killing Marcille is the only way forward.

Only, this time, he's started to come up with an idea for how to do this impossible thing.

Harkening all the way back to the Living Armor chapter, Laios draws on the same lesson - if the Lion has made itself part of the world, if it has made itself into something alive, that means he can kill it. And eat it.

But there's an important extra detail to this. If he's going to try and kill (and eat) the Lion, he needs to strike when it’s vulnerable. He needs to strike when it's eating.

This is why he smashes through the barrier. Again, nothing else he does as a monster really benefits the Lion. He doesn't attack anyone else. The only command he obeys is to smash the barrier. Because the Lion has to think he has won for Laios to be able to eat him.

Beat him. For Laios to be able to beat him.

The question of why Monster Laios wanted to eat the Lion is, I think, the most ambiguous part. Was he curious? Hungry? Did he fight for his own life, for his friends, or for all of humanity? Did he know how to win because he had planned everything from the start, or because he was driven by an unquenchable instinct to do whatever it took to survive?

I don't know that it is possible to say for sure. But I do know that the Lion underestimates Laios, through it all. He underestimates Laios as a human, and he underestimates Laios as a monster.

And in the end, after he is bested, even then I don't think the Lion ever gets Laios. I don't think he understands how much Laios means his words about the Lion being burdened by hunger...

or what Laios cares about most...

or what meaning there is in life, for him.

So I don't buy what the Lion is selling about Laios, generally speaking. I don't buy that Laios didn't ever know what he was doing, and I don't buy that he was nothing more than a hungry beast.

Well. I mean. He was a hungry beast. But he was a more than that too. He was the Devourer of All Things Horrible. And he didn't just happen into that title by chance.

[lunahearts]

Okay I'm doing it. I'm chapter 96 posting.

This is not meant to be a big analysis post this is mostly just me sharing all the little moments that Marcille & Laios show their care for each other because they are SO beloved to me. Join me on the journey if you wish.

(but also the above statement may be a lie. I do have a point here, it turns out, and the point gets at some of my Big Feelings of what Dungeon Meshi has to say about the nature of friendship & living in the world)

So, first of all, the conversation about Laios being king at the start of the chapter. Just in general Laios insisting on presenting himself in his own way here is so good. Character development!!

Before the events of the story he hadn't shared his inner world with anyone but Falin. Now he's like Actually I'm gonna dress up in the discarded remains of my monstersona and that's just how it is.

And even though there are a LOT of parts of the story and bits of character growth that go into this, I think it specifically highlights some interactions from a few chapters ago.

After all, his initial reaction to having been in that monster form & coming out of it was trying to hide from everyone.

And I think everyone helping him put things in perspective here contributes to how he is able to present himself as king. They assure him that he is accepted, despite having just been seen by EVERYONE at his Peak "Weird Monster Guy" mode.

Highlighting what Marcille says here especially:

Going out to "face them with a smile" is EXACTLY what he does. Not right away. He's still pretty stressed in the following scene in this chapter. But he is able to face the crowds with a smile, eventually...

As king. Dressed in the memory of his most vulnerable moments, the most honest expression of his desire.

BUT I'M GETTING A LITTLE AHEAD OF MYSELF. Before the King Laios speech, there's a little moment with Marcille I want to highlight, because...

Did y'all know that by the end of the manga, Marcille isn't like... grossed out by eating monsters any more? Or at least, she's definitely changed her reaction to it. It's Namari who makes the "yeah it smells good despite what it is" comment, not Marcille.

We even get shots later of Tansu, Shuro, and Kabru being kinda grossed out by - but still going ahead and eating - the different Falin foods. Chilchuck also throws out a line about it being surprised that it's good.

But there's no disparaging comment from Marcille, despite the Everything of the situation. I just think that's also a nice little detail. She may not be as far in the monster eating game as Laios, but she's more willing to roll with the weirdness.

So after this little moment, this is when Laios comes out in his new regal outfit. And first of all...

This is such a good contrast to the moment when the group goes to save Marcille in chapter 84. The monsters had stopped attacking, and everyone's reactions to Laios and the others framed him as unsettling. Creepy. Maybe even traitors.

They even use some of the same labels (lord of the monsters/lord of the dungeon, dark lord/demon king)., but the context is that they are disgusted. The parallels in this manga....

Have a tendency to destroy me. What a difference in reception.

Anyway, after this moment, Laios stops to talk to the group... and I'd like to point out again: MARCILLE ISN'T FLIPPANT HERE EITHER!!

Chilchuck is still Chilchuck, of course, and I want to be clear I love that, too. Chilchuck is who he is to his core. His little jabs are very affectionate in this chapter.

But Marcille... Marcille only points to the Winged Lion symbol as being weird, not the monster bits. And like, considering what she's just been through with the lion, being skeptical of that part is... fair.

(don't get me wrong, her "that's fine and all" isn't exactly excitement. BUT the point I'm trying to make is less about her completely changing her feelings & preferences. It's more about how she expresses them, and how she treats Laios and HIS feelings & preferences)

And she continues to be so encouraging!! Wah!! Like, despite, all four of these people definitely caring about Laios, it's Marcille specifically who tells him to relax and just be honest. And you know what? I think that's what Falin would have said, too.

Please also note how cute everyone's little faces are in the crowd:

(see, Chilchuck loves him too!! Look at that fond face, and the cheer. and Senshi! and Namari! They really are such a family)

Laios' short speech actually has a little bit I'd like to highlight as well, since I think it is a nice little reflection of his choice to keep the lion insignia on his new outfit:

"Eat to your heart's content," he says. Not just "enjoy," or "let's eat."

Dunmeshi does such a wonderful job of framing so much about the Winged Lion with nuance, and this is a good example of that. Desire is not bad! Craving and consuming is beautiful. As Laios says when explaining the lion insignia...

It's not just something to get rid of.

So then... on to the feast!

And not only does Marcille not express any grossed out feelings, as I mentioned before... she even helps to gross out Chilchuck!!

Her weird girl powers are only just in their infancy. She will only grow more powerful in time...

As the feast goes on of course we get the group's realization about her hair, and I'd like to point out:

I really feel like they have such similar reactions to finding out about how the other has been affected by the Winged Lion

Just... the quiet concern. Not making a huge fuss, but... worried. Understanding. A little heartbroken for each other.

SPEAKING OF HEARTBROKEN REACTIONS THOUGH. WHAT COMES NEXT REALLY GETS ME.

After Chilchuck braids Marcille's hair for her, the topic of her needing to leave everyone comes up and...

God, these expressions. Every Time I see these panels I think about about what Laios saw in her nightmare. Her fears. The weight of inevitable loneliness, and the way it has marked her. As much as Marcille tries to keep things light when talking about it, he knows what this means to her. And it HURTS.

So he doesn't accept it. But do you notice how he frames this. Do you see. Not "do you want me to fix this." Not "hey I have an idea."

"Would you be willing to stay."

He doesn't know whether she will accept. Whether she will hate the idea, actually, of staying here with him. He's putting himself out there fully prepared for rejection & dismissal, as he has faced many times before.

But his pitch, his proposal to her, it's not JUST an excuse to ask her to stay, either. He's put thought into this. Into what Marcille could mean and do here. Not just to and for him, but for the people of this area. The place he has taken responsibility for.

He's also thinking about Falin. And about all the other little girls, the people of all sorts, just like her. He's thinking about the people who have been killed (burned at the stake???), hurt, shunned. About the people who have been abandoned. The people who are still alone.

He's not just offering Marcille an out from her isolation, he's offering her a new purpose. A new way to continue her work, to do the things she cares about. He SEES her! he understands her.

BUT ALSO HE'S SO NERVOUS OUGH. FIDDLING WITH THE PLATE. UNSURE IF SHE WILL CARE. UNSURE IF HE HAS IT RIGHT.

HE'S NOT GOOD WITH PEOPLE HE'S NOT GOOD AT THIS.

BUT THEY UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER. AND SHE WANTS THIS LIFE HE'S OFFERING HER.

Still... it's not that simple for her, even if for a moment she is swept up in how much she wants this.

Again here, Marcille is working so hard to be chill about the whole 'going west with the elves' thing. She looks absolutely devastated in the first panel, but puts on a smile in the second.

Maybe she doesn't want to bring down the mood. Maybe she doesn't want to burden everyone with what seems like the only option she has. Maybe she had already accepted the cost that might come with bringing Falin back. Maybe after everything with the Winged Lion, she doesn't want to risk letting herself fight for her desires too hard.

But hey. Desires aren't always bad. They aren't something to just get rid of.

A small bit of visual storytelling here... I love that Marcille is confined by the panel, but Laios is stepping outside of it. He's literally pulling her outside of the box she feels trapped in.

Also, I love that his first acts as king are:

1) welcome everyone to a big feast

2) stand by his friend and help her find happiness

It's great stuff and it's so Laios.

In addition to that, I love how this whole act actually plays out. I love that, while getting the elves to let Marcille go, he gets to be extremely cool and protective...

but also like. Not THAT cool and protective.

No really, I mean it! I think it's important! It's important that cool 'suave king guy Laios' is a front he puts up when he needs to deal with these strangers, and one that he completely drops once it's just him and Marcille.

He's not trying to impress her, or convince her he's cool and suave. Why would he? He trusts that she's okay with the messy, often unimpressive, sometimes kinda gross reality of who he is.

And isn't that what Dungeon Meshi is all about? Messy, unimpressive, gross reality. And how beautiful, how wonderful, how very precious it is

Especially when you get to share it with your friends.

[laikabu]

re: my thoughts on laios’s sexuality (long post ahead lol)

let me start this post with this. first, this contains a lot of references to the new adventurer’s bible world guide book released last february. i can read japanese, but i’m sure they’re translated somewhere. general spoiler warning in case. also… i am ESL, so sorry for any grammar errors

second, if you’re on the team that insists laios doesn’t care about humans enough to form relationships, either read the manga again or at the very least read this thread.

last, please don’t chime in with your acearo headcanons on this post. there’s already a majority of posts here that insist laios is acearo and that anything else is impossible. i don’t like it the same way i don’t like when someone declares they hc marcille as bisexual to a poster who reads her as lesbian. i already have enough people here who declare he’s ace on my own art. at least people on twitter of all places don’t do this sort of thing to me. nothing in this manga is canon, you can headcanon anything i won’t get mad if you hc him as bi or something. just. don’t be weird on my post.

okay. trust me, i love women, and i love the idea of making my favs women lovers but the idea of laios being gay really appeals to me because of his background. this isn’t fueled by yaoi since i don’t even ship the only m/m relationship i bring up here, i just think it adds a nice layer to his disconnect with his own humanity

i do think laios has a very abstract relationship with his sexuality for a multitude of reasons. he grew up in a very conservative backwater village. he has a hard time recognizing his own feelings towards others just as much as vice versa. i don’t really care for the “laios is a monsterfucker” agenda people are pushing but i do think he’d engage in sexual thoughts in his own weird way, i won’t deny his deviantart fetish shit

as an autistic person myself, i relate to how he’d prioritize his special interest over social interactions. after all, he was fixated on monster food so he’s distracted from dark thoughts. he’s not an actual glutton

he’s shy around women, but i don’t think it’s out of attraction. i just think it’s because he’s awkward and doesn’t want to be seen as a threat. there’s a couple of times when, out of armor, he deliberately tries to make himself look smaller and nonthreatening.

he didn’t show any interest towards ashivia (the hubby hunter girl marcille replaced) and just humored her because she wouldn’t leave him alone. his other party members thought he was giving her special treatment so he had to tell her he “doesnt want to give her special treatment anymore”(even though he never did), so she left

ashivia did her best to butter herself up to laios and he didn’t care, but laios thought shuro was his bestest friend in the whole world because he was too much of a pushover to reject him. ironically… what ashivia did to him parallels what he was doing to shuro

also… yeah sorry i keep bringing up that one comic of laios saying if he were falin he’d marry shuro and then begging him to take him back to his country, or that comic of laios wondering why he doesn’t like him(and then the first two questions he asks the magic mirror was what if he or shuro were women). i don’t even ship them! but it’s not a reach to assume that he likes men because of this, even if it’s kinda played like a joke(after all,a lot of people like chilshi even though their ‘shippy’ interaction was played as a joke)

of course, given the setting, i don’t think knows he’s gay, he wouldn’t have the vocabulary to label himself. i do want to dance around with the idea of him forcibly confronting his own sexuality after years of yaad pressuring him to produce heirs lol. laios might not be cishet but he’s a king so he rdgaf about that right now. i’m open to him having female consorts for political reasons, but i don’t think he’s into women, is all.

before anyone brings up his succubus… god forbid an author makes hetbait. a part of the plot twist was that not-marcille wasn’t the only succubus enticing laios, his other party members were copied too. she was the only one who approached him. also… succubi aren’t always inherently romantic. once it realized marcille didn’t work, it switched to appeal to his desire to be a monster.

[tanoraqui]

Dungeon Meshi Liveblog: I thought I wasn't going to have strong opinions about the Laios-Shuro fight, but...

Laios was right about this! Yes, they had 2 physical fights first, but it's important to note that Laios was right about this!

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^ -man who would literally kill to stay in this room and observe this private conversation.

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Sir, your unfaltering little wide-eyed, amiable smile while seriously considering topics that are obviously un-smile-worth has charmed me utterly. I wish to study you like an climate-entomologist yearns for the butterfly that causes storms.

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She seems fine.

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If I start screencapping Laios's and Marcille's faces in this fight, I will never stop because literally every panel is devasting.

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Kuro has done distinctly the most damage so far this fight, just stabbing and gnawing, and I think we should recognize and appreciate that fact.

.

I really miss the animation we got of Rin's lightning blast slicing narrowly past Laios.

I love how fast, if reluctantly, Laios accepts that if - not, that Falin is a true "monster", inhuman and hurting people relentlessly and unapologetically, and thus she needs to be killed before she kills them, like any other monster. I also love that Marcille doesn't accept this. Characters!

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+1 to qualification to kingship! Kabru is one again surprised (you can tell by how he's not smiling) (though this might also be due to the significant injuries he just took).

I do have several emotions about how Falin immediately yanks away and kills Kabru, without touching Laios. That's her brother!!

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I really like this little cluster because it says to me that Shuro still has very good "do what Marcille says when she abruptly shouts magic-related directions in combat" instincts. He's a mirror of the "You're already on the Christmas card, buddy" meme - more like, "You're still on the Christmas card." Just like Namari: no one really stops being fond of, and battle companions with, these weirdos.

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I think the most painful part of this probably is that Marcille isn't certain. Maybe this IS her fault. At minimum, she knows she might have mixed the dragon's soul into Falin's, which enabled this even if it didn't create it. But she can't 100% rule out the possibility that it's more her fault than that - which is, of course, the absolute worst thing to say to all of these people looking at her violently askance for using dark magic.

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yeahhhhhh "Lunatic Magician" REALLY lacks the oomph of "Mad Mage"

ANGRY LAIOS! It's such a rare expression on him, it's exciting to see.

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Yesss look at my man Chilchuck use available tools in his environment and save this little goober who thinks it's cool to resent adults.

I really like how they show the social consequences of dark magic. Much beyond Shuro's anger: the other mages are now shutting Marcille down, especially where resurrection magic is concerned. She's made herself untrusted by her peers, whether or not the magic she used on Falin is truly "evil."

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I really enjoy the, like, narratively obligatory, not actually real (well, maybe to Rin) "will they-won't they" between Kabru and Rin. In the story that this isn't, where Kabru is the protagonist with his quirky gang of found family who are helping him save the island and prevent another bloodbath like in his angsty backstory, she IS the One (Human) Female on the Team who is obviously his love interest - often the first to challenge him, battle mage rather than healer ie a Strong Female Character who nonetheless doesn't use unfeminine brute force, forced by happenstance to kiss...

Alas! Kabru is not the protagonist of this story, so Rin shall remain disappointed.

Also this montage of people healing and reuniting while in the background Laios and Shuro whale on each other remains SO funny. Flawless comedic timing.

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Alright, hot take time: I feel like all the debate I've seen about the Shuro/Laios fight depict it as revealing the friendship basically shattered, and never real in the first place. Whereas I'm mostly warmed by how real it clearly was despite everything that just happened?

Shuro is operating on no food and less sleep, desperate to save the woman he idolizes without truly understanding her loves, who is now apparently a monster who nearly slaughtered his most loyal followers. In the past like 2 weeks, Laios has: watched his sister die to save his life (his little sister, whom he is supposed to protect), walked headfirst into a nigh-unwinnable fight to get her back, held her skull in his hands, got her back and held her in his arms, lost her again about 6 hours later in an even more unwinnable fight, which was proven even more unwinnable when the Mage twisted the dungeon itself against them, saw her again but as a murderous monster now (which might be due to the magic he agreed to use to resurrect her), swiftly and sternly resigned himself to fighting and potentially killing her (his little sister! whom he is supposed to protect!), had her recognize him (and no one else!) despite her monstrosity, watched her be killed (again!) in part thanks to him distracting her, except it didn't work and then she fled.

This is an immature, ignoring-immediate-needs (ie, food, healing) knock-down drag-out fight between two men at the absolute ends of their ropes, who, sure, have built-up resentments against each other and the world, and an inciting incident pushing them over the edge - but mostly neither of them can punch in the face the fact that they can't save Falin. So they punch each other instead.

I won't even address the prologue to the fight, where Laios tells him about the black magic and Shuro promptly tries to strangle him then levels a sword at him. Kabru already nailed that: Shuro was worried about Falin - that the magic had hurt her, that the social consequences would be worse. Laios knew this enough that he didn't fight back, then. But now?

The first shove is Shuro demanding, Don't you fucking DARE give me false hope.

I cannot emphasize enough how hard I would also slap someone for suggesting that I wasn't taking the death and monsterization of my younger sibling seriously.

Shuro knows it, too. He doesn't respond to this, he just punches, and Laios punches back. Shuro doesn't speak again until Laios knocks him all the way down, and

Shuro is at his absolute depth. The lowest point he (feels that he) can go. He cannot save Falin. He's shamed himself as a leader and heir by getting his people killed (they got better, but that's beside the point.) He's been beaten in hand-to-hand combat by this idiot northern peasant. He lets down his guard and pride enough to mutter this self-deprecation aloud...and the idiot northern peasant hears, compounding every shame - and it's infuriating especially because he doesn't even hear properly, just like he never hears properly - he's so frustrating in his friendly but oblivious constant irritation and THIS, Shuro can still be furious about, to avoid his grief/hopelessness/self-loathing/shame. This, he can still fight about!

So he does.

They're both wrong in this fight. They're both right. Laios was consistently inconsiderate; knowing this about himself - because it's not like by his early 20s he didn't know that he didn't Get people the way most people Get people - he should've made more of an effort, and picked up any of the hints Shuro was laying down. Shuro was too caught up in his own pride and out-of-place manners: when it was clear that Laios wasn't going to pick up on even the strongest "hint", he should've said something plainly instead of just letting his resentment build until he was effectively lying to Laios about, if not their entire friendship, certainly the shape of it.

But they were friends. They are friends. This isn't the posture or conversation of two guys who don't like each other.

It's two guys who are still, in fact, fucking exhausted, physically and emotionally - but they just got rid of a lot of extra, furious, helpless energy, so they're finally satisfied to just sit. Their posture is relaxed and casual; their conversation straightforward and companionable, if serious.

This is two guys who've sat like this many time at a campfire, in just these poses. Who've kept watch together late at night and stayed awake by talking.

Laios cares about Falin more than anyone in the world, and even after the words and blows they just exchanged, he's still willing to put Shuro's suit to her. Shuro didn't tell Falin he was interested in her until he proposed to her, but he's telling it all to Laios. Admittedly, this is because Laios is, Shuro assumes, the closest he'll ever get to being able to tell it all to Falin...but still. And he admits vulnerability, which he clearly wouldn't have done before, even to his most loyal and loved companions as they urged him to eat and sleep.

Yeah, they're buddies. If I had to describe it, I'd say: their relationship was built on unsteady, false foundations, but they built something sturdy on it anyway, and the sturdy thing survives even when the foundations shake and re-settle.

Lol at Shuro. "I'm going to report you to the local authorities for your crimes because it's the right thing to do. But if you survive, I'll totally use my power and influence to help you flee the country, and live peacefully on my estate beyond where an extradition treaty can reach you."

[thechekhov]

Chekhov Reads Dungeon Meshi: CH47

I would like to thank Ryoko Kui for this.

I really love how, despite being antagonistic with Chilchuck, Izutsumi seems to like Marcille and him the best out of all the rest.

You know they're Japanese pancakes with that amount of air padding them out.... 😂

You know, it's interesting because if I remember correctly, taste is the oldest sense we have. Basic organisms surviving in water needed to be able to taste the environment in order to allow it to move away from acidic water, or dangerous environments. So it's curious that their taste is no longer working while their other senses remain.

....sounds like it was maybe less of the...power.... and maybe more of the fact that his old childhood friend was growing old?

....... y'know. Just suggesting...

To fight a trainer with a powerful pokemon, you must first capture a powerful pokemon yourself.

AIEEEEE~

I was JUST about to say "man, this kid seems to be a genuinely good leader! His people don't fear him and he has a good head on his shoulders. I sure hope nothing bad happens to him!"

And here we are.

Oooooh a forest? Or one of those water places.

Update: One of those water places. A cistern.

Her charm wore off! And now she can experience unspeakable horrors of being known in a vulnerable state.

Someone get this poor man some google maps.

Laios, why do you look.... less than thrilled with this information?

Oh, his Fixation Sense is tingling, that's why.

Oh? Rare Senshi moment of stubbornness?

Mayhaps even.... A BACKSTORY?

When the party is in Analysis Paralysis and the DM says 'roll initiative'

Marcille is taking this Crazy Future Girlfriend thing to all new highs.

Is he afraid of birds? Or lions? Or both? What is happening here? It makes no sense. It would be delicious! Senshi, stop that's like 60 kg of chicken wings, easy!

BONUS:

Here's the thing. They aren't like, twins necessarily. But I do think that Falin, while she's just as weird as Laios is, makes herself approachable to people. She cares about ghosts as beings, instead of seeing them only as a scientific anomaly.

But other than that.... honestly I feel like Toshi wouldn't fall in love with a female Laios either.

Marcille and Falin being MORE likely to go out to the dungeon as women makes sense somehow. Though I am amused at how femme-leaning all elves are naturally.

I think these gender twists are all pretty surface level but given that it's a conversation the party has in real time... I get it.

[grimm-writings]

hello! <3 i read your dungeon meshi stuff and it was great!! is it alright if i request some relationship headcanons with chilchuk? preferably with a male s/o, but gn is alright too! thank you sm! i hope you have a good day.

chilchuck relationship headcanons!!

…ft! chilchuck x m! reader

…tags! fluff, mentions of chilchuck's wife, chilchuck bisexuality crisis, teeny weeny hurt/comfort, talk of marriage, just word vomit tbh

…wc! 1561 (UHM...)

…notes! m! reader food come get it!!!!!!!! thank you for giving me the opportunity to go crazy stupid with this request anon i love chil so much is it obvious yet

Ok let’s get one thing straight.

(He isn’t.  Haha.)

But!  In all seriousness, Chilchuck has one thing he needs to do before considering a committed relationship.

Yep, even with all the longing glances, late night conversations, and helping each other learn and grow, he has to delay the fruition of your relationship until after everything after the dungeon dies down.

Well… he just needs to talk to his past lover first.  He needs to have a long, long conversation with her, and he’ll be sure to mention you too.

He relays this to you during the great feast privately.  Despite his nervousness, the sigh of relief that escapes him is noticeable.  His shoulders slack and he closes his eyes.  Finally, it’s off his chest.

Before we talk about the actual relationship, though, let’s talk about stuff that happened during the pining phase!  Yay!

Chilchuck only had one flame his entire life, and that was his childhood friend.  He never really ‘dated’, never really had any sort of time to explore his feelings for anyone else.

To put it plainly, he had no idea he was into guys.

“I dunno, Senshi was always kind of handsome,” Chilchuck notes with Laios, and his doppelganger nods in agreement. You and Marcille pause for a second, processing the words the two men said.  Like a house pet that has certain opinions regarding these sorts of people, you side-eye one another. “How would you know that?”  You challenge. In response, one of the Chilchucks glances over at you – the more tired looking one – and he shrugs.  “Not anyone would have the kinda bold look in his eyes he has.  The pinnacle of masculinity,” he huffs with a small grin, as if daydreaming of the very such thing. You have no words.  You quite simply don’t.

It’d be a major “oh FUCK” moment when he does realise.  Honestly the entire realisation of feelings for Chilchuck is Good Medicine but times a billion.

He’s pacing he’s pulling at his hair he’s questioning how the HELL did this happen.

If he has a pillow he is screaming into it more often than he normally does.

If you’re more on the masculine side, or are a dwarf, this man is a right mess around you.

Like he’s stammering constantly and hates himself for it.  Constantly red in the face around you and has to excuse himself.

But like . Not in a gay way or anything.

(Seriously if you think how he avoids his friends is ridiculous, this is eleven times worse.)

It takes some time, but I can imagine there’s a moment in the dungeon where you kissed at least once.

Chilchuck is the one to break away first, his eyes wide and face beet red.  It doesn’t take long for him to take his hands away from where they were, interlaced with yours, to hold his face and drag his skin down in dread. “...Did you like it?”  You nervously ask.  He’s the king of mixed signals… The half-foot nods slowly, still looking like he experienced some form of unwanted enlightenment.  “Yuh–huh,” he squeaks. You smile.  That’s good enough for you.

Marcille definitely picks up on SOME tension though.  She’s oddly observant of that sort of thing.

Once you actually reveal to the party that you’re seeing each other post-canon, Marcille disrespectfully shouts “I KNEW IT!”

As Chilchuck and her have an arguing match about that, you’ll look at Laios who looks shocked.  He had no idea.  Some things never change.

Senshi and Falin are normal and actually just congratulate you.  Give them hugs for me.

BUT FINALLY ONTO ACTUAL RELATIONSHIP HEADCANONS!!!!!! (This is like 600 words so far.)

He’s still uneasy about a lot of things.  He has a deep-rooted fear of messing this up again.

When the relationship is established he might distance himself for a bit.  Not on purpose, mind you, he’s just… not sure of what to do, and he’d rather not do anything at all than mess up.

Chilchuck no that in turn is messing up noo!!!!

You’d have to tell him this and he’ll try and turn his behaviour around instantaneously.  He’ll be nervous and frustrated with himself, but take it slow and he’ll come around eventually.

His nicknames are … unique.

He’ll use stuff like “idiot” with the greatest affection in his eyes and a soft grin, but he’ll say “hey handsome” with the most dripping sarcasm and sneer.  Why is he like this—

Play with his strands of grey hair and he’s so flustered, swatting your hand away.  If he’s tired and cuddling into you, though, he… well, he wouldn’t mind it.

Speaking of cuddling!  He didn’t really do much like cuddling in his previous relationship, to your surprise.  He just shrugs and says he and his old flame weren’t that kind of people.

This is how you inadvertently find out Chilchuck is a wombo combo of touch starved and too embarrassed by it to do anything about it.  How does he live…?

He knows himself if you’re not a half-foot that him being a big spoon is too ridiculous of a notion.  Yeah, he immediately assumes he has to be the one spooning you.  He realises with time though that he… drastically prefers being in your arms.  Feeling secure, loved…  He really really likes it.

Not like you can ever get him to admit it verbally.

(You can still see it from how he relaxes into you and smiles as he drifts off into dreamland.)

It’s been a long day, and Chilchuck wants nothing more than to see you.  You look up from where you were sitting when your boyfriend enters the house and smile.  “Good evening, love.” God, your smile.  If he didn’t know he’d be coming home to this, then the work day wouldn’t have been worth it.  He sighs and smiles, walking to you and immediately falling onto your lap.  His face tucks itself into your stomach and his arms wrap around your middle. “Hm, someone’s tired,” you remark with a grin.  Chilchuck merely groans into your form. Sparing him from any teasing, you card your fingers through your hair.  You can already feel how he melts into you as he loses consciousness. You lean down and kiss the shell of his ear.  “Sweet dreams, Chil.”

For a long time, he struggles with actually calling you his boyfriend.  It’s not like he’s ashamed of you, it’s just…  It’s always been “my wife” for such a long time.  He still can’t quite fathom this change in his life.  That you’re his and he’s yours.

Eventually, he’ll be the one to proudly proclaim “my boyfriend!” when he gets the chance to mention you.  He’s quite proud of the fact he’s got you, after all.

His kisses are usually quick and brief pecks on your temple or if he’s not in reach, your hand or shoulder.  

Ugh can you imagine him taking your hand and giving a kiss to the back of it?  And you can feel his thumb ghost over your knuckles reassuringly before wishing you farewell to work?  Dying dead.

Kiss him and he’s always taken aback every time.  He still won’t be able to comprehend it no matter how many times you’ve done it.

(To be slightly on the more suggestive side… really likes making out when in the mood.  He can do that for hours with him on top of you.  Though he wouldn’t mind being underneath if he considers it…)

He daydreams more often than he likes, especially early in the relationship.  He’ll feel ridiculous for it, like some lovestruck schoolboy but… well, yeah, he IS utterly enamoured with you!  Don’t be surprised if you catch him staring at you or checking you out in some way.  Call him out, and he’ll flush with a furrowed brow and glance away.

His love language mostly comes in the form of acts of service.  Although there’s a slight bit of gift giving too.  He likes giving you wordworks or embroidery he made if he knows you like it.  Maybe he’ll make you a teddy or ragdoll if you’re into that!

You also get Chilchuck thinking about the impossible after a while.  He doesn’t try to make a big deal out of it, but it’s kinda hard when…

“I think I can give marriage a second chance,” Chilchuck says out of the blue to you one relaxing night in bed.  His hair is messed up by you burying your head into it, and your lover is tucked into your chest, holding onto your waist. His words certainly catch you off guard, and for once Chilchuck doesn’t make a thing out of being the one to fluster you for once.  Instead, he tucks his nose into your neck and sighs.  “I just…” he pauses for a few seconds.  “I think I can do it right this time.  If you’re here with me.  I think I can do it.” The silence is thick with a kind of tenderness you’d only associate with the colour pink.  It’s deep and you can feel your face glow in the heat. You pull Chilchuck closer and kiss his head. “I’d really like that Chilchuck.  I really would.” He chuckles slightly at the soft sensation, closing his eyes again. “Thank you,” he says, “I mean it.  I couldn’t have made it this far without you.”

[dadsbongos]

I love the way you write kabru, could you write some of the general headcanons for him?

super all over the place. i got maybe a bit too into the nsfw headcanons cuz i need to destroy him ~~~ general headcanons:

The type to imagine oc battle amvs in his head to their medieval music but pretends he’s just smoldering chill cool guy

Outside of general note-taking or journaling, I fully believe he’s had dreams of being a novelist as a kid

Probably avoids interacting one-on-one with Falin without Marcille or Laios as buffers because of her stubbornly remaining monster traits, as well as like… “hey girl you killed me!!”

But as time goes on n he gets used to her, he probably ends up just seeing her as a cutie pie like everyone else does

Would thrive coming up with criminal punishments, maybe not watching some of them because excessive gore icks him out but theorizing is always fun to him

Would similarly thrive in a court setting, and would jump at the opportunity to be the angel and devil on laios’ shoulders through the whole thing

I think he’s the type of man to bare a heavy conscious about things he considers immoral or rude, like having a hard time forgiving himself for mistakes or even just generally “bad” things in his past

Likes the idea of being a family man but gets scared shitless at the actual effort it would take to raise children and maintain a marriage

Would be a total reality TV junkie and anime lameoid in modern era - he loves the melodrama

if/when Mickbell ever gave him permission to refer to him by “mick” (or just any half-foots say he can call them by first name alone) he’d squeal and kick his feet for dayssss knowing what it means in a cultural context for half-foots

Tries not to be That Guy, but feels a little complimented when people tease at what a smooth talker he is. Loves getting to have his redditor “heh… just my natural charisma…” moment

Strikes me specifically as bisexual btw i dunno why but its just jumping at me

Not in love with Rin, but likes her? But doesn’t? But doesn’t NOT like her? He’s trying to maintain distance because sometimes he feels a spark, but then goes back to thinking of her as just a childhood friend. Feels very guilty and selfish if he thinks about her feelings for him for too long, especially since he’s kind of a known charmer. Earnestly hopes she moves on from him no matter the state of his feelings though

Nsfw headcanons:

Likes foreplay wayyyy more than sex because he gets off seeing how crazy he can drive his partners before they just start begging with zero shame

Would enjoy group sex or two-party affairs, his only iffy stance is being watched by someone else. Unless he knows the voyeur VERY well it just feels uncomfortable to be the one getting observed. Down to be the voyeur though hehe

Has a stupid lil whispy laugh he does when he’s getting teased im gonna get feral

Could never play a brat, you tell him shut up and he salutes you with sweaty hands

Could do hate sex! If he realllllllly doesn’t fuck with your vibe, but he’d have to know you personally. Hate sex feels weirdly more intimate to him because he has to expose real feelings he has, so in a way his ass doesn’t even hate you he’s just annoyed you keep bickering with him

If he’s supposed to be submissive, I think he’d like to get a couple light slaps. Maybe choke him a wee bit.

Can’t take humiliation unless its in a sandwich where the degradation is hidden between 2+ praises

Idk if its because its me or if this is real, but I can see him blurting out a “mommy” if he’s super delirious with pleasure

Circling back to the voyeur thing, I think his other hardcore no is somnophilia. Either way, he just can’t get into it. But he’s not the type to shame people for their goons

[ratguy-nico]

Okey so I saws the last episode of Dunmeshi and I need to talk about the shapeshifters.

I think is pretty obvious which belong to wich, meaning who on the team remembered each one that specific way... if you watched you got me

Im not gonna explain every single one but the last shapeshifters the closest to the real ones.

STARTO

MARCILLE!!!

This one belong 100% to Laios and is awesome, Laios can not remeber the little details about his friens, like Chilichuck scarf or Senshi's helmet so he doesn't remeber Marcille's hair multiple hairstyle so he just get her hair free BUT surprinsingly he does remeber the detail in her spellbook CAUSE HE'S BEEN STUDYING IT that is such a detail and I love it.

But I love more the implication that Laios think highley of the love Marcille feels for Falin, believing at heart that Marcille would do anything to save his sister. This man doesnt know what lesbians are but he certainly not what love is

CHILCHUCK!!!

Okey I'll be honest i have my doubts with this one, but for the sake of the ship let's say this was Senshi XD I'm kidding, this man belong to Senshi.

What is my doubt? Since Senshi and Marcille are from long-lived races they both infantilize Chilchuck and Laios, BUT this copy is not the baby face one, meaning is not the most infantileze one, But most important the tools of this copy were mostly right.

Marcille doesn't give a shit about Chichuck's tools, she doesn't need to or want to but in guess who in fricking EPISODE 2 (so soon in the anime and already a ship) have a whole arc where he observes Chilchuck works up close, developing a deep respect for what Chilchuck does getting familiar with said tools

Implications: Senshi watch this man up close, giving him more attention than any other member of the party, he is the one he rely on the most, but he's predjuice are strong and he cannot help thinking of him as a cute little child SICK and not in a good way thats you future husband >:0

y por ultimo pero no menos importante

SENSHI!!!!

GAY GAY HOMOSEXUAL GAY ejem this is from Chilchuck and I live for it

What can I say that you dont already know?

not-Senshi being the handsome one

Chilchuck inmediatly noticing the lack of the helmet detail in the Laios copy

the fact that when confronted with the fact that not-Senshi is more handsome than the real one (which rude, Marcille we can not all be lesbians like you >:0) he's just like "No, Senshi has always been handsome" re ofendido XD

y OJITO Laios said cool, Chilchuck just said Senshi has always been like that LIKE WHAT? HANDSOME? YEAH WE KNOW!

(though this was also a very gay moment for Laios)

LOOK HOW IS THE REAL CHILCHUCK WHO'S MORE RILED UP BY HANDSOME SENSHI

and the gratuitous beef to my man wtf what do you mean dumb looking one? XD no puedo es demasiado XD

This episode was too much fun the whole characters interaction just got me.

The memes the gifs LAIOS BARKING DOG LAIOS IS REAL

and ... the way I developed an instant crush on Itsuzumi here:

NOTE I don't actually have a crush on Izutsumi, I know her from the manga and she is pretty much a cat, which cute, but ... not my type lets just say that.

But in this shot they are just my tipe of guy, haven't been touch for a single ray of sun on their, have never eat a proper meal, doesn't even register the concept and doesn't know what you mean by wash hair? what is that some kinda of joke?

[ladyof-thestorm]

Little Farcille drabble

Falin’s lips moved, but the sound of her voice was muffled, as if she was underwater. Marcille still smiled, though. She could look at her wife for hours, even though she couldn’t understand what she was saying. She took a sip of the tea Senshi had prepared for them earlier. It tasted a bit metallic, but she paid it no mind. Falin had stopped talking and was now looking out the window, seemingly lost in thought. Marcille followed, but instead of the outside world, she was faced with their reflections, as if they were looking into a mirror rather than their kitchen window.

She had always thought it was impossible to look at your own reflection in a dream, because our brains don’t really know what we look like. But somehow, she knew the person in the reflection was herself. As for Falin… was that Falin?

An old woman was sitting in front of her.

…She woke up out of breath, like a heavy weight sat on her chest.

Falin moved beside her, seemingly awake as well.

“Marcille?”

“Falin!” She sobbed, “Falin, Falin…”

She let her wife hold her as she cried. Falin let her fingers card through Marcille’s hair gingerly, like she was afraid.

“What happened, love?”

“I… you were there, but… it wasn’t you.”

Falin kissed her teary eyes.

“What do you mean?”

“I was still the same, but… you weren’t.”

Falin understood. She held Marcille tightly as she cried, not worrying about her pajama shirt getting dirty with snot and tears.

“How bad was it?”

“Not too bad” they were still together, after all. But that was what scared Marcille, being still the same as Falin aged. “You were with me, but…”

“I know. I know.”

Marcille cried harder, gripping Falin’s shirt like a lifeline. There were so many conflicting feelings inside her mind, a turmoil that she couldn’t tame.

“You… and Laios, Chilchuck, Senshi and Izutsumi… Sometimes I think it would be easier if I hadn’t met you, if I hadn’t loved you. How can I be alone again after loving all of you, and being loved in return?”

Falin tightened her hold.

“Would you be happier, if you hadn’t met us?”

No. Of course not. Only after having met Falin and the others had she realized that it was so easy to be happy. She had always been alone, and now she wasn’t, but there was always that bittersweet feeling that everything was fleeting.

“I know I can’t ease your fear, I accept that. But, Marcille, that’s just the future. If you let your fear of the future consume you, you won’t be able to cherish the present. And I want to share my present with you. I want to make as many memories as I can, do everything I want to do, so when I have to leave this world, you can be assured that I’m leaving happy and without regrets.”

Marcille sobbed into her wife’s chest.

“Falin… why do you have to say those things? You tell me I shouldn’t worry about the future and yet—“

“I never said you shouldn’t worry. I’m just saying that having a short life doesn’t mean it can’t be lived to the fullest. My life is wonderful: I’m married to the person I’ve loved since I was a child, I have my brother and a lot of amazing friends, and we do so much fun stuff together. If I can keep living like this, even if it’s not for long, it’ll be worth it. Life, however short, is worth it. And I-we are all happy to share it with you.”

Marcille cried harder in her wife’s arms, but there was a hint of relief this time.

[typenull]

While the climax of Dunmesh [here’s your warning for spoilers] gives us an extremely thorough look into Laios’s psyche and his own desires, we don’t actually know that much about Falin, despite her “death” kicking the entire story into motion. The only bits of Falin we get to see are through the lens of other characters, who inherently show us their own biased perceptions of her. I’d go as far to say that Falin is actually the character in Dungeon Meshi who’s true desires we know the least about!

We know with absolute certainty at least a few things: Falin is gifted with powerful magic, wants to follow behind and travel with her brother who she deeply respects, loves her friend Marcille, likes fruits and creams, loves insects and is curious about monsters, once again like Laios… most of the things we learn about Falin are things that she has in common with her brother, but what does SHE want, deep down? How does she feel about everything? I don’t think we’ll fully get an answer to that question before the manga is over. This is definitely on purpose though, and has even been hinted at in the text (which I’ll get to later).

In my opinion the main difference between Falin and Laios is that Falin doesn’t want to hurt anyone besides herself (for the sake of others, and she barely knows who that self is) and Laios wants to hurt anyone who he “doesn’t like” (anyone who endangers him and those he loves). Both of these feelings stem from the same shared events of their childhood where they both began to feel “disconnected” from humanity so to speak, but they reacted to it in opposite ways.

Where Laios stubbornly ran away and refused to deal with being hurt and surrounded by hurt, Falin, who we rarely see making choices based on any desires for herself (staying in the academy for 8 years after being sent by her father despite not thinking it’s for her, nearly agreeing to marry Shuro just so that she doesn’t have to deal with being asked later, etc.), doesn’t object to anything she’s subject to because the only person being “hurt” in these scenarios is herself, which to her is acceptable. She accepts the fact that she’s considered “othered” extremely easily, and this reflects openly in both her behavior and in the few things we know about her: she connects with and cares deeply for spirits despite being ostracized, admires insects and monsters like her brother, and is even fine planning to take on a job that’s revered in her hometown. To Falin, being “othered” is more normal to her than the alternative

The only people in Falin’s life that make her feel like *more* than just an outsider are Laios and Marcille. As a result Laios and Falin end up with similar sounding mindsets on the surface; "As long as [the people I love] are okay, I don't care about anything else" — but underneath, they actually manifest completely differently! Where Laios “doesn’t care about people”, Falin cares deeply about them despite barely being treated as one.

The only *active* decision from Falin we see that most obviously reflects her deepest desires is her choice to die for those she loves, which I think says a lot about her.

I think that if Laios is “a human who wants to become a monster” because he hates humans due to his past, the most obvious foil to him is Kabru, “a human who wants to destroy monsters” because of his past in Utaya (and feeling like a monster himself). Thinking of them as two ends of a spectrum, in the grey middle ground of this is where I think I’d put Falin.

She’s simultaneously a human made subhuman, a monster made to follow Thistle, a “ghost” of her former self haunting Laios and Marcille — she really IS the absolute epitome of a “chimera”.

The Lion cursing Laios was the “hinting in the text” I talked about earlier: forcing his deepest desire into something seemingly impossible to achieve, a chimera. The surface level conclusion when reading this is that Falin won’t be revived, but I seriously don’t think it’ll be that simple in the end. After all, a chimera is multifaceted.

My hope for the final chapter of Dungeon Meshi is that, *if* by some chance Falin is revived, she will finally have to grapple with not only having to look deep within herself to answer all of these things for her own sake, but also with having the one opportunity in which she chose to use any sort of agency to act upon her deepest desires not only be completely reversed, but also hurting so many people in the process. When Falin is revived in the Red Dragon arc, she doesn’t even remember sacrificing herself for her friends — but she promises Laios to never do it again, falling back into her typical submissive obedience. How would she react the second time? Will we even get to know? Something tells me, probably not.

[fumifooms]

Hi hi! I'm sure you have loads of asks to get through. But if you may, we talk a lot about Chilchuck and Marcille (as we should 'cause they're great!), but since you've mentioned that Laios is your fave char, I would love to hear if you have any takes on Laios and Izutsumi's dynamic. I feel sometimes like she doesn't really like him...? It's funny but I also feel bad for him sometimes. ^^;;

You can’t ask me this and expect me to not drop everything else I’m doing. Little did you know they are my brotp. They are so special. Izutsumi gets along more with literally everyone in the party, but their relationship was so narratively important. They’re a really underrated and overlooked dynamic! I’ve had them as a topic at the back of my mind for a while, seeing someone else interested was all the push I needed gdbdg. This isn’t super long though, their issues with each other and lil arc is surprisingly brief and easy to summarize.

Laios & Izutsumi : what’s their deal with each other

For me one foundational train of thought for Izutsumi & Laios is, well. I read this awesome smart post deconstructing how Izutsumi’s beef with Laios is because she only just broke free and wants freedom without having someone ordering her around, and that’s sort of her whole character arc, isn’t it?

Isn’t Izutsumi’s picky eating a reflection of just that? In a life where she was a slave, she could at least control what she chose to eat and not eat. But then you might wonder, why did the narrative want her to grow out of that? Simply put, Izutsumi has a contrarian streak, one that is often extremely counterproductive. We saw that especially near the beginning, with how hard it was to make her work with them as a team. The issue is that now that she is free, she needs to not block out others by habit, to not lash out and refuse the healthy things in life, the people who want good for her. And that’s something that’s addressed in the succubus chapter as well as the fight against the ice golem, that she shouldn’t insist that she can do everything alone and fight against any team effort.

I love how onesided the Laios izutsumi dynamic is. He stays away from her generally, like doesn’t interact much, but he wants the cat pats… Which Izu made clear she did NOT want. And Chil is the only one in the party to not really see her as a cat for most of the story really, as shown in the relationship chart. He’s well meaning and wants the best for her, but he crowds her and doesn’t understand her at all. But he reallyyy wants to get along with her.

On the other hand, Izutsumi’s very existence and identity gave Laios an immense amount of hope that Falin could be brought back and still be herself and live well, even if she still had part of a dragon’s soul in her. I think that’s a lovely way to contrast the way that Izutsumi hates herself as a beastkin and her body, while Laios is like "Thank you, your existence as you are is the answer to all my worries" AND he super likes monster bodies and beastkins so it’s like. I think part of her hostility to him, besides feeling like he doesn’t understand her perspective and is maybe dismissive of what his party members want (which would remind her of Maizuru to some degree probably), is that he says all these good things about her being a beastkin, and it’s so jarring with her own version of herself that it raises her hackles and she reacts negatively, especially with how flippant and eager he is about it. But yes like, this is their first meeting!! Beyond his interest in her as a beastkin because of his monster hobby, Laios is just so very grateful for her and chooses to put his trust in her.

That’s interesting too, how one of the first things she asks about upon meeting them is why the hell they would want to rescue Falin even if she were to stay as a chimera-beastkin and still have the dragon soul in her. It’s her asking "Who would want to stick with a beastkin?" thinking that there’s something fundamentally wrong with having two souls and it making you unlovable. And their differing views on monsters do make them clash

But ultimately he chills out about her, which ironically enough shows in the way that they don’t interact much- He gives her space, and accepts that the beastkin may not like him. BUT at the end of the day they have an incredible bond of trust- Laios asks Izutsumi to kill him if something goes wrong with the Winged Lion. Not only is that sort of an intimate request and act, but that means that he leaves it up to Izutsumi’s judgement as well to know if it went wrong and when to act. He doesn’t only trust her skills but also her decision making, despite how tough they’ve been on each other in the past. He’s giving her the ultimate role, the go ahead to make or break their plan and be the difference between saving or destroying the world. And the last tidbit of info we get on their relationship in canon is when she hides behind him because she’s shy- Certified having befriended the cat moment. She trusts him and sees him as a safe person! And by saying that she’s shy, he’s showing that he did end up understanding her and how she is.

No matter the rocky parts of their relationship, they still have a strong foundation to it and were great allies and road companions, one of the few persons that had each other’s back when it mattered the most, both for the world and for their personal arcs. And post-canon, well…

He’s accepted that she needs space and whatnot, and meanwhile she’s accepted his interest in monsters and taken it in stride 😌 They end up having this familiarity with each other and even if there’s still a bunch of emotional distance imo and they never really got into the nitty gritty with each other not like her with Chilchuck or even Marcille, they see each other. They nod in greeting and respect each other from afar……. But also still tease and chat familiarly up close and if she offers him the opportunity for cuddles he will take it. You know, if it’s not her just falling onto him because she’s sleeping she has no respect.

Siblings behavior… If you know my take on the general party dynamics, I love thinking of Laios & Izu’s dynamic as him being an older brother figure where they have a love-hate relationship. Siblings rivalry. I have a bunch of funny little doodles I’ve wanted to make with them for months, the prompts for which are in the screenshot put below. But yeah like you know, they’re protective of each other but in that very critical way as well, truly forged by being stuck with each other for a while and having to come to understand and accept how the other is. Strife with conflict, but ultimately sticking with each other through thick and thin… Siblings siblings SIBLINGS SIBLINGS SIBLINGS. Sigh I just want them to cuddle on a couch and she purrs while simultaneously being snide and mean to him, they are so… Izutsumi is the character ever

Oh, which! While I’m here, I always recommend this fanfic about the two of them interacting and Laios treating her like a cat, it’s just fun and lighthearted. They’re suuuuch an underrated duo

If I find more Laios & Izu moments I think are worth sharing I’ll just add it onto this I think. We shouldn’t be too hard on him he was raised by dogs so cats are a whole other language to him but also, so wild to me that he never tried to engage with her on a cat level properly like where is the hissing at the catgirl and the cat taming moments, he sucks at socializing with cats smh smh.

I want to do an analysis of queerness in Dungeon Meshi with relationships and social norms and stuff and Izutsumi’s arc is gonna be central to that too. Her relationship with EVERYONE is SOOO GOOD AND IMPORTANT AND COMPELLING. But I guess this is where I leave it off for now, I hope I’m not forgetting any point I wanted to make hmmm

[ambrosiagourmet]

Dunmeshi characterization mumblings…

Laios tries. That’s the guiding principle of his characterization, to me. He tries more than he realizes. He thought he gave up during his years with the military but he never did. Something dragged him to Falin, after all.

He cares about people a lot and he wants to do well by them. This is usually specific people but also can be groups (eg the orcs or the residents of the Golden Kingdom). His hit rate on noticing what people like/want/need is not anywhere close to 100% but once he has locked something in he’s Locked It In.

He wants to be better than he is, and he isn’t always good at noticing what he does do well. Some part of him does want to run away, and he’s not always great at accepting that. He clashes with it, and doesn’t even always know whether he’s winning against it (framing his past of leaving Falin as running away when it wasn’t necessarily that simple). When he does self-reflect he can have a pretty dismal view of himself, and he prefers to act instead. This leads him to help as often as it leads him to step on toes, but it does very much do both. He’s working on getting better about this by post-canon though - on some level I think he’s aware that it’s not how he always wants to be.

He supports people by Physically Being There. Lots of worried dog laying their head on your lap energy. Voted most likely to stay by someone’s bedside until they wake up.

~

Marcille is still figuring out where she fits in the world. She's still figuring out who she wants to be. She can be extremely confident about some things, and completely doubt herself in other areas. She's got a little bit of fake-it-til-you-make-it charm. She DOES know what she's talking about, she just doesn't always know how to apply it. Very #gradstudentcore. She's still only just starting to explore the world beyond the safety of her parents or her school!

She has such a big heart and she emotes loudly, every time. That doesn't mean that she shows EVERYTHING she's feeling, but if she does show it, she shows it big. She loves romance and big gestures and the zest of life and people. She likes to meddle and snoop because she wants to know the whole story and wants to be in on it all. I think sometimes she might have trouble realizing that she's PART of the story, though. Like, she views her meddling gossip seeking as neutral or good acts, when they can affect people more than she realizes, and sometimes even hurt them.

In general she's not great at predicting the repercussions for her actions. I do think she reflects on herself, but sometimes she's trying to learn and do so much that some things get lost. She wants to be better, and she's always learning and growing and taking things in. I genuinely think that someday Marcille is going to be a little more sure of herself and a little more experience and she is going to be an AMAZING woman. She's just not always good at handling the fact that she can't just be THERE already.

She supports people by cheering them on. The force of Marcille Believing In You could give someone the power to move mountains. Yes, she does also fret and fuss over people in ways that can undermine that. But like the Marcille smile and "you got this" encouragement? Literally confers The Power Of Love.

~

Kabru... Kabru is building the future he wants to see. He's not very good at putting that work down, though (I know, workaholic Kabru characterization, deeply insightful). He can be prone to seeing himself more a part of the process of creating a better world, though, rather than a person who deserves to live in that world. Like, I think he'd be more likely to daydream about a statue or plaque dedicated to him than about himself actually just hanging out and being content.

He thinks about everything. I definitely don't think he's always manipulating people, but he is almost always observing. And since he's prone to following those observations to plans and ideas, he's not being great at turning off his Planning brain, and thus measures his words and actions even when he maybe... shouldn't be....

I don't think he'd describe himself as an "ends justify the means" person (he's very opposed to that way of handling things from the Canaries), but he is rather more concerned about the ends than the means. Bit of a hypocrite there, maybe? I do think his ends are kinder and more inclusive than the Canaries, though. So maybe it's something where he believes that if one has good enough ends, the means must be worth it. Especially since he directs the cost of those means at himself as much as possible. He views himself as expendable in pursuit of a worthy goal.

He is getting better about that but I don't know that he's consciously acknowledged that it's a problem. And so he's probably prone to relapse into those self-minimizing behaviors, especially given he very much has a new Goal to focus on with the kingdom.

Honestly, Kabru doesn't really self-reflect nearly as much as he might think he does. This is actually taking me a little by surprise as well. But he reacts more from emotions than logic in a few points in the story (esp the part where he stops Mithrun from killing Falin), and doesn't really... acknowledge that?

Maybe it's more accurate to say that he's kind of hit or miss with it. He is learning and growing all the time. But he's also something of a blind spot in his own excellent understanding of what makes people tick. Maybe he's better at understanding himself through the reflection of how other people see him.

He shows his support by making other people's lives easier. That might mean giving them a friendly ear, helping them navigate a tricky situation, or assuaging worries they didn't even realize that had. This isn't always true, but I think sometimes he might like some his support to be a little invisible. I don't think he has a problem with receiving praise and gratitude, but I also don't know that it does much for him, either. And being able to help without being noticed can help him hide the vulnerability of the depth of his attachment.

Also, Kabru would probably be more emotionally destroyed by one person helping him with something than a hundred people praising him for his help (but would claim he prefers to help and be appreciated for it).

[shadowtraveled]

what TMA entities would you assign the dungeon lords, esp mithrun? was discussing this (bc marcille is sooo End) and consulting your Seminal Mithrun Meta when i remembered you also went here!

anon i want you to know i was thinking about this nonstop like two weeks ago oh my god. i’d love to hear your thoughts on this if you’re so inclined 👁‍🗨 (and wheeze thank you i don’t know about seminal but i’m glad it passed peer review)

putting a readmore here for spoilers

to preface this, i understand the fears aren’t really separate and it’s all just fear etc but they function as distinct in the way the demons do and in the sense that they each had to mark jon to come into the world. so. distinctive facets of a unified whole. anyway i have two criteria for assigning someone a tma entity: it has to be something they deeply fear, and it has to be something they choose anyway.

and with that being said, marcille is SO end-aligned in a very gentle and chill way i think fits the end so nicely… her intense fear of death is sort of a fear of loss, which would typically be considered the desolation’s domain, especially when coupled with her aptitude for explosion/fire magic and the part of her arc where she tries to expand the dungeon, but she wasn't choosing destruction or hopelessness in either of those cases—there’s something to be said for the carnage she was willing to leave in her wake, but at the end of the day she was trying to eliminate loss. she's fundamentally incompatible with the desolation because she continually rejects it, and the loss itself doesn't form the core of her fear. the inevitability of death, though, does, and she accepts it when she gives up the dungeon and lets falin go. absolutely the end.

i think thistle is another easy designation. he clings to control to the point it corrupts him, and he creates an environment that forbids death, but his desire is not for control and his fear is not of death or loss—those are delgal's. instead, his fear that he won't be able to measure up to the too-large too-heavy responsibility placed on his shoulders is what drives him, and because we know it drives him, we know that he takes it on anyway. he even brings melini underground. extremely the buried.

laios, meanwhile. is difficult for me to assign. his fears (rejection, ostracism, that he isn't able to connect with people, that he hates people) feel very lonely, and he does withdraw from people a fair amount, but he has connections he does not and would not choose to sever. you could make an argument for the hunt (he's drawn to not only monsters but the concept of the food chain itself and his place on it as a part of the natural world, and he ends the series with the object of his fascination out of his reach), but i don't think there's enough fear there. in laios' case, the lack of strict definition between fears and the idea that they're all just muddled subcategories of a singular thing is actually really helpful, because i think i'm assigning him to the vast. it was said at some point that the vast and the lonely aren't too dissimilar—you won't realize how alone you are without distance, and that sort of mental/emotional distance and disconnect is what has haunted laios his entire life. and i think that's, in part, what makes the cosmic insignificance of seeing yourself as just another part of your environment so comforting to him. his choices... definitely make him cosmically significant lmfao but even though he chooses to be the one to go up against Infinity Itself and its endless hunger and even though he chooses to be king, he fits himself right back into the position of being a single piece of a much larger puzzle. he became lord of the dungeon to become a part of the food chain that would stand a chance to preserve it (via eating the demon's hunger). he's king because there was a gap that needed to be filled. even then, he wants his body to be scattered after death, so that he can be devoured like any other living thing would be. god i love this manga. anyway, tentative but i think the vast is the only thing i can justify at this time. actually, accepting the hunger of the infinite could itself be seen as accepting the vast into himself…….

and finally, mithrun! surprising absolutely nobody given my take on his backstory, i'd give him to the lonely, with the caveat that he does eventually sever his connection to it. prior to becoming lord of a dungeon, we know he thought the worst of people (and again i think this was intentional of him), but we also know he put up a front that was undeniably kind. milsiril says that everyone loved him for the front, but its very existence acted as a barrier between himself and others: milsiril had no idea how miserable he was, and neither did anyone else. he'd already begun choosing isolation, and he chose it ultimately when he became lord of a dungeon, literally cutting himself off from everyone in a pocket dimension where he surrounded himself with facsimiles of people he loved until... they dwindled. and they did, until he was alone again, with only the demon and the unresponsive chimera construction of the person he considered to be the one he loved. after he was eaten, we see themes of emptiness typical of the lonely coupled with his disconnection from his team—in one of the extras it says they don't really know how to approach him, and i think it shows. so in a way, he ends up back where he started: surrounded by people who care about him and who he ostensibly cares about in return, but emotionally alone. as for fear, i think a lot of his are tied up in the concept of insignificance, but that insignificance isn't cosmic—it's personal. that's why watching himself be replaced was so unbearable for him and why the thought of being left unfinished was so horrific.

as an aside, i did also consider the corruption. the idea of leftovers abandoned carries the connotation of rot and i love the concept of 'the rot within you' etc. it gets me every time, and i think there's something to be said about that with regard to the way mithrun views the person he once was. furthermore, the... eating... scene... is framed as sexual and extremely invasive (and, as a result of the combination, is very evocative of disgust) in a way we see most often with the corruption (though imo tma would never see something like this as it toes the line of jonny's "no sexual trauma horror" rule too closely), and we have to remember that for all that it terrified mithrun, he was trying to get it to happen again. but i don't think disgust is enough of a factor for him. most of his disgust is aimed at himself, and while he doesn't shy away from it, he isn't really drawn to it either. rather, i think his dialogue in the extra comic in the complete edition of the adventurer's bible ("there's nothing so kind as a demon. suddenly losing that kind of love opens a hole in your heart[...]") goes a long way in terms of defining what being eaten meant to him. the corruption focuses on a feeling of belonging and community. mithrun wanted to disappear forever knowing that in the last moment he lived he was loved. ultimately, the fear of being abandoned coupled with his attraction to being unknown and eventually entirely gone read as lonely-aligned to me.

anyway i'd LOVE to hear where you're at with this please come chat literally whenever this is the most excited i’ve ever been about anything

[sketchstudios07]

I haven't posted art in some time, but here, have some of my D&D ocs interacting with the dungeon meshi party, because it's fun! I drew them with the ones i feel like they're the most similar to either physically or personality-wise. I doubt many people will see, but i'd love to see more people doing this. Here we go!! :}

Marcille and Anne (she/her). She's an elf cleric and also my first character ever! So there isn't much to say about her. I feel like she's just this calm presence, Marcille could have some of that comfort every now and then. They'd definetly bond over hair care and magic, despite working in different fields. In a way, I feel like Marcille would find Anne similar to Falin, or like an older and wiser version of her. Anne could also give some advice on the whole "being scared of death thing", having a short-lived partner and all.

Chilchuck and Heron (he/him), tiny dads! Heron is (obviously) a halfling, but for his class he's actually a homebrew pirate! I think they have plenty of stuff in common to talk about, both of them are often made fun of by their parties for their size, which is fun. They're also both dads, only Chilchuck has 3 girls (4 if you count Izutsumi) and Heron has 4 boys, maybe they'd argue over what's better, idk. Chilchuck is grumpier, but i feel like both have that "Oh my god what are you doing!? Are you an idiot?" attitude when the party does their shenanigans. These two would be good friends, maybe Chil is a bit envious of Heron's stable family though

Laios and Deliz (he/him). Deliz is the character i've been playing the longest, he's a kalashtar sorcerer (with some druid levels). I think it's not hard to tell that they'd bond over hyperfixations. I doubt Laios would be able to answer Deliz's questions, but there's plenty of cool monster stuff to talk about! I wonder what Laios would think about all the weird creatures that possess and infect people in this other world. These two would be great friends, no judgement about "weird" behaviors, just vibes. I also feel like Laios would be super interested in what a "kalashtar" even is, or how powerful Deliz is compared to most adventurers he knows, despite him being so young (21).

Izutsumi and Spark (she/her). The cat girls! Spark is a tabaxi sorcerer that is also a literal child, so I feel like Izustumi would be done with her shit really fast lmao. Kind of like, when a child wants to impress a teenager, but they keep annoying them? Exactly that. Doesn't help that Spark is pretty energetic too. At one point or another though, they'd grow on each other. Izutsumi would never admit it though

Senshi and Lilium (she/they). Not much in common between these two, Lilium is a tiefling druid and Senshi is like, a fighter(?) dwarf, buut they'd get along really well. I feel like senshi would be the calm and nurturing figure this anxious little lesbian needs. She's been through a lot and needs a place to rest every now and then, and maybe drinking a cup of tea with some warm food is the right choice after some adventuring, right? (Also can you tell i didn't wanna draw Senshi's helmet? ITS SO HARD TO DO SIDEWAYS AND I DIDNT FIND ANY REFERENCES)

And a little bonus:

(Azzazel (they/any) is my friends character, they'd spark a whole other convo w/ Laios tbh)