#thoughts: dead boy detectives

[pippin-katz]

Edwin's Parents Canonically Did Not Hug Him

I was watching interviews of the boys for a post I'm working on, and fucking excuse me?!

Source: Advocate Channel Interview, Timestamp 3:17

We have confirmation from George that Edwin's parents did not hug him while he was alive. It's due much more to the time period rather than neglectful parenting, but that is still crazy to think about. He also says "parents", meaning both his father and his mother; neither of them gave him any kind of physical affection.

The repressive time period causing Edwin's parents to be very emotionally absent from his life is not a new concept, and it gets brought up in varying intensities in fanfics I've read, but it always felt like a fuzzy, floating concept based on speculation heavily supported by probability. I knew it was an accurate assumption, but I couldn't reach out and touch it, if that makes any sense. Now, it's concrete in my mind.

It gives this scene even more weight:

Edwin's expressions, while already perfectly understandable, make even more sense. The way he's seemingly pained by the embrace at first. He did not even realize how badly he needed and wanted this kind of affection.

There is such a strong surge of pure joy, comfort, and love from the hug that it hurts him, because he realizes in that moment what he's been deprived of his entire life and existence. Edwin has existed for over a hundred years, and even though it's hard to believe, they've never hugged each other like this in the thirty years they've been together. I don't think I could ever confidently say that they never hugged, ever, in thirty years, especially given how physical Charles is with his affection.

But that expression on Edwin's face in undeniable.

George says earlier in video that Edwin "lacks the skill set to keep up" with all of the new emotions he's experiencing, and you can feel that in the way his face changes.

Edwin hugs him back, and lets out a big breath, relieved and satisfied by the embrace. The wave of emotions passes as he realizes that even if he overwhelmed and terrified by the love he's feeling, it feels good to hug Charles. He realizes that he wants to hug Charles, that he's allowed to want to hug Charles, and that he actually can hug Charles.

God, the amount of emotions Edwin has in that moment that he's completely unequipped for, simply because he's never experienced it, not even from the people closest to him in life. It's heartbreaking, but seeing him learning how it feels to be loved for the first time is so beautiful.

Edwin, the character that you are... George Rexstrew, the actor that you are... 😔🩵

(ko-fi)

[finnickswifey]

this post was requested by @goodoldfashionednerd. i thought of this because i noticed myself that when i want to use the payneland tag, i feel it’s necessary to also tag all the other spelling variations with it, which is a bit unnecessary. so well i want to try to clarify something…

sooo here we go: edwin’s name in the show is spelled like edwin payne and in the comics the spelling edwin paine is frequently used. so payne and paine are the correct options to spell edwin’s last name, not payn or pain. therefore, the shipname of edwin and charles will be either payneland or paineland, not paynland or painland (if anyone uses those at all).

thank u for listening to my ted talk (or should i say ‘tedwin talk’ lmao)

[disclaimer: i don't want to make this post more important than it needs to be, so please don't attach too much value to it. i also don't want to label myself as an "expert," having only seen the dead boy detectives show and not read the comics, i did do a bit of research tho. i’m just someone who wants to use the dead boy detectives tag and the payneland tag as much as possible, preferably the the easiest way (in other words: please don’t come at me i’m nobody) ]

[pippin-katz]

In Edwin's defense, Niko was/is a very special and unique person, so it's a little unfair to pit her against Crystal. Edwin would likely react more like how he is with Crystal more frequently when it comes to befriending new people. Crystal is also disadvantaged since she's trying to "steal his man" in a way lol

I've actually got an essay about Crystal and Edwin in the works, so this isn't all of my thoughts on the matter lmfao

ᴇᴅᴡɪɴ & ᴄʀʏꜱᴛᴀʟ ᴠꜱ. ᴇᴅᴡɪɴ & ɴɪᴋᴏ

[detectivejay]

Time for a new poll! I'm curious to see the spread of answers on this one (and hear any other series not on the list.) Tried to go for a range of older and newer series on here, more on the older end of the spectrum, but I can't cover everything with the limited poll options here, so I hope you'll share your answers! :)

Please reblog for a larger sample size, thank you!

EDIT: Wow this broke containment from my little sideblog, thank you all for sharing your favorites even after the poll concluded. I love getting updates with little snippets of people's favorite and first mystery series and fond memories. Mystery nerds unite! 🥰

[pippin-katz]

In Defense Of Edwin

Something that has bothered me is that there's a significant amount of people who talk about Edwin being unaware of Charles' pain as if he's oblivious, or like he did something wrong; that is simply unfair to Edwin.

Charles is happy, friendly, and wonderful. That is his personality. That is not all forced.

People are quick to jump on the line that Charles has been hiding his pain from Edwin, but a line people are ignoring from that argument is: "He's probably been hiding it from himself!"

His behavior indicates that he doesn't talk or think about trauma or negativity unless it's relevant to the situation. I doubt Charles even realized how bad his trauma was until the Devlin Murders. His pain was so repressed that he wasn't "feeling" it anymore.

Charles’ Triggers

While I'm not going to say that Charles did not hide his pain from Edwin at all, I am going to point out that this may have been the first time, in a very long time or ever, that they encountered something this close to home for him.

The only real reason Charles discusses his trauma now is because the Devlin House triggers him, genuinely in a psychological way. It's not just the "crazy dad" that gets to him. There are so many details that fit Charles personally. That whole situation is too fucking much for him.

The song Owner Of A Lonely Heart playing in the background; a song that he says he liked enough to get the cassette tape but that it was smashed by his father.

The controlling and restrictive behaviors of the father on his daughters. The eldest daughter writing about walking on eggshells and looking forward to graduation.

The way that the father kills them; he doesn't shoot them, or poison them, or whatever, he butchers them. His attacks are physically direct. He swings an axe, so his movement is the root of the violence. If it had been a gun, it would've been his finger on the trigger, but the bullets hitting them. Charles was abused by his father through the means of a belt, which is physically direct.

The loop, having to watch it over, and over, and over again with no break, no relief, and not being able to do anything, no matter how many times he sees it happen. Charles' abuse seemed to be regular and constant, no matter what he did. It always ended the same way.

All of that is then exacerbated by the Night Nurse forcing him to reexperience his trauma the very next day. That's a lot of specific details and events that lead to his complete breakdown.

Charles hasn't been consciously choosing to hide all of that pain from Edwin. It had been buried to the point where even he couldn't see it anymore, but the Devlin House uprooted it from his subconscious.

Charles’ Parents

Now, he does hide his habit of checking on his parents from Edwin, but that's not fully about his abuse. Charles misses his family, his life, being alive.

It's worth noting that he only shows Crystal his parents because he's trying to connect with her about not being able to go home. He didn't bring that up on a whim. It was relevant to help Crystal feel understood. She's not special; if someone completely different from her did the exact same thing, Charles would've shown them too.

Now, let's talk about him not telling Edwin. Charles may not have a full comprehension of Edwin's experiences, but he knows he's different from "normal" people. Hiding his parents from him is likely just as much about not wanting to hurt Edwin as it is protecting himself.

Edwin does not show any type of longing for his life. Everything he knew about the world from his time is gone or been changed beyond recognition. He doesn't have a family to miss, not that he was close to them in the first place; even if he did have an emotional connection to them, they've been long dead.

And Edwin seems unbothered, but there’s no way for Charles to know that for certain. Watching his parents weekly would remind Edwin constantly that he does not have anyone. He’s worried about being insensitive; he feels like he would be unintentionally taunting Edwin and rubbing salt into the wound.

Edwin has been dead for over 100 years and spent 70 of those years being torn apart by a demon in Hell; how could he even remember physical sensations other than pain and exhaustion? How could he remember the taste of food while running through Gluttony, watching its inhabitants vomit profusely? He never saw the appeal of romance or sex prior to his death, and then he witnesses the bloody masses of people in Lust; how could he be anything other than repulsed?

Charles tells him that pain is not a contest, but he almost without a doubt compares his own experiences to Edwin's. It's something people with low self-esteem do more than others. He feels guilty, like he’s selfish for being upset; Edwin has it so much worse.

How does being abused by his dad compare to being dragged to Hell? He got hit with a belt; Edwin was ripped apart. Who is he to whine about his life to a boy who has died more times than days Charles has existed?

He may not have had the specific details before, but the knowledge of it being Hell was enough. When you don't put your own needs on your priority list, that's one of the first "justifications" your brain comes up with. They already have enough on their plate, and you don't need to talk about it. You're totally fine! So yes, hiding his parents from Edwin makes sense from his perspective.

But his abuse? Charles doesn't even realize how much pain he's in; how could Edwin have realized?

My point is that Charles wasn't actively choosing to hide all of his pain from Edwin for thirty years, so to blame Edwin for not noticing is like blaming a blind person for picking up a red ball instead of a blue one. He couldn't have noticed; there was nothing for him to notice. Charles wasn't wearing a full mask.

The second Charles shows any indication that something is wrong, Edwin does notice!

Edwin may have trouble with people, but he's not oblivious, and he knows Charles. If he's ever been upset like this before, he would've noticed. He notices Charles' change in behavior after Crystal joined in only a day, and he doesn't deny it when Edwin calls him out.

Edwin also follows up on asking if he needs to talk about his father. Charles brushes him off, but Crystal and Niko show up before Edwin has a chance to press a little more, which I think he would've. I don't think Charles would've opened up, but it would've shown that Edwin is aware that all is not well. He is aware, but on top of being in the dark about it, he's got his own shit he's working out and cases to solve. His attention is divided.

I think it's important to remember this fact that has been driving me mental for months now:

Charles and Edwin’s dynamic during the show is a completely different dynamic than the one they've had for the past thirty years.

The introduction of Crystal, going to Port Townsend, meeting Niko, Monty, fighting Esther, the Cat King, etc. etc. etc. Everything about their relationship gets shaken up from the start of the show. They're both acting differently in all sorts of ways, and some they even acknowledge to each other.

What we saw of them in Port Townsend is not what Charles and Edwin were during those thirty years. It's unfair to pass judgement on something we don't actually know about.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm getting really tired of fics/posts making a commentary about Edwin not noticing being something he has failed at. Does Edwin feel guilty for not realizing it sooner? Absolutely, but please, at least acknowledge that it wasn't his fault if you're sticking to canon. If you want to twist some shit into it to make it more complicated, make it more angsty, go right ahead! I'm absolutely not stopping you!

But canonically, at least I feel after studying these characters under a microscope, Edwin could not have known sooner.

(ko-fi)

[fear0phobia]

I noticed that in ep 4, when they watch the woman jump off the lighthouse, edwin and crystal have a similar reaction and niko and charles have a similar reaction. what does it mean? idk I just think it's interesting

[pippin-katz]

You’re entirely correct apart from the length of time of having Crystal there. They were only in Port Townsend for maybe a week, or a little over. Crystal pays Jenny the weekly rent once on screen, and maybe once off screen when she moves in, but it's also possible Jenny waited until the week started to collect it. Crystal mentions the rent several times, but nothing about the events of the series indicates that they were in Port Townsend for an extended period of time.

Anyway, I think that everything worked out in the end because of the level of communication between them steadily growing.

When Charles kisses Crystal, he tells Edwin about it. When Edwin indirectly accuses him of not enjoying being with him, Charles shuts the notion down calmly. At the end of the Dead Dragons case, Charles lets all his insecurities out in the open, and following their hug, he invites Edwin to do the same. When Edwin starts to tell him about Monty, Charles immediately says that he could've told him sooner. Then in Hell, Edwin starts to say something, and Charles cuts him off, but specifically says, "You can say whatever it is you need to say to me-", which is an indirect way of reiterating that Edwin can tell him anything.

I have high hopes for them moving forward, and I really hope that if we get to see more of them that the communication continues, especially given they've both experienced being vulnerable with each other and were "rewarded" for it.

(ko-fi)

I am a Charles Rowland slut okay and this is why I can say how much he fucking annoys me with his whole act towards Crystal in the beginning. Listen

He's such a teenage boy about it, which is annoying already- you know when your friend has a new crush and then suddenly everything is about the crush? You'll at least roll your eyes at that, it can get frustrating really fast.

But THEN. BUT THEN

Since he is not, in fact, a normal teenager as much as he wants to pretend he is, he's actively bringing a stranger into the agency which is not only his and Edwin's business but also their home.

(this has nothing on Crystal btw. She has no memories or fucks to give. She's totally valid for going along with whatever happens)

Imagine you share a house with your best friend and they suddenly drop someone on the couch and announce the person is staying. What the fuck.

AND TO MAKE THINGS WORSE, Charles spends days if not weeks choosing Crystal's side in almost every argument. When he says he agrees with Edwin on something he even goes "I know, I know" and rolls his eyes like he hasn't been with Edwin for 30 fucking years agreeing on a bunch of things.

(It's funny how then, in episode 6, when he doesn't want to take up Monty's case, he thinks Edwin will agree with him. Hah. How the turn tables, etc)

It bothers me so much and it has nothing to do with the romantic part of it, but with the fact Charles is just not being a good friend. It's no wonder Edwin is being such a bitch, although he too is missing the mark and letting it all out on Crystal who is literally just there.

Anyway. I love Charles with all my heart and that's why I reflect on his flaws and shitty behaviors too. And everything turned out well in the end, yeah, yeah, but ugh dude c'monnnnn

[pippin-katz]

Why Did Charles Keep Asking About Edwin's Conversation With The Cat King?

I was reading a fic where Edwin agrees to the Cat King's initial offer, but because time passes differently in whatever room that is, he's gone for six weeks even though it was a couple hours for him, and it got me thinking. I worked out why Charles was so pushy about that conversation.

Charles and Edwin have been together for 30 years. The way they act gives me the feeling that they spent very little time apart, and wherever one went, the other went too. In the fic, Edwin's inner monologue refers to it as "shared memories"; they experience everything together.

But now, there's this.

Edwin disappeared for hours on Charles' side of things. He had this conversation with a magical being, a stranger that sets off warning bells in Charles' head. He came back with a magical bracelet that trapped him in Port Townsend, that he couldn't remove, and something about his behavior was off.

Charles is not stupid or oblivious. He reads Edwin like a book, albeit with blurry text. He knows something is not quite right, but doesn't know what. And he knows it's because of whatever happened in the few hours that he wasn't with him.

For what is likely the first time in 30 years, Edwin has experienced/done something significant without him. Charles is in the dark; he wasn't there to see or hear what happened for himself. All he has to go on is what Edwin tells him, and he gets the immediate feeling that he's not saying everything.

When talking about it in front of Crystal, he just asks if he said anything else, but once they're alone in their office, he's direct.

Charles is absolutely (and correctly) sure that Edwin hasn't told him the real/full truth about his meeting with the Cat King, and tells him as much.

The way he asks feels... calm? Crystal's not there, they're alone, they're in their safe space, why wouldn't Edwin tell him? He probably thinks he would, but obviously, he doesn't. He lets a detail slip that confuses and concerns him even more; the Cat King whispering in his ear. That confirms very close proximity between them, something that's potentially dangerous and something he knows Edwin doesn't particularly like, and Charles is just... lost, uncomfortable, and frustrated.

Can you imagine how maddening that must have been? To not know what really happened? To only have vague descriptions of the events from his friend? To see and know that something is wrong with him, but being unable to truly help because he's clueless as to what the actual problem is?

It's highly likely that this is the first time Charles has ever encountered this.

As Edwin says, he's "fixated" on this. It's like there's a page missing in his copy of the script of events. He's never had to worry about it before; he was always there with him. Edwin says it's not a big deal, but Charles can't make that call himself. It's not that he doesn't trust Edwin; it's his protectiveness of him. He wants to see and assess the situation for himself. He wants to be positive there's no danger, that it meets his standards. He needs to know everything about where Edwin is, what he's doing, who he's with, at all times, so he can be ready to protect him.

As Jayden put it, Charles has given himself the mantle of Edwin's guardian. Edwin dedicates all his time and energy into helping others, to the point of neglecting himself. In response, Charles dedicates himself to Edwin. If he won't take care of himself, if no one else is going to help him, Charles will. As he says in Hell when he's rescuing Edwin, "Someone's gotta do it."

(ko-fi)

[thepearlyalbatross]

I loooooveeee all the fics where the agency finds Edwin's remains and Bury them with Charles but I cannot help but wonder in centuries time if people find them again and are just so fucking confused.

Especially if like they set Edwin's bones nicely with Charles' or like they're holding hands or some shit and these archaeologist r just like oh fun people who died together BUT NO. Bc Edwin died 70 years before Charles so wtf is going on here.

We don't know how these teenaged skeletons came to be like fuckin intertwined with each other but its cool ig?

And they try to separate them or something but they keep ending up together again. Just over and over until everyone is convinced it's some magic shit and to just let them be together.

[mirellapryce]

Today's stupid thought - Charles showing his parents to Edwin and Crystal, then pointing out an urn on the mantelpiece and just saying, "That's me :D"

[pippin-katz]

I think it’s both; I imagine they have to somehow maintain their office space, which is far too nice to be a completely abandoned building. I guess somehow they're "renting" the space. Charles does mention at the being that Crystal can "help out with the living" which is a peculiar thing to say since they don't take living clients at that time. When Charles suggests Becky Aspen as their client, Edwin literally says, "A living client? That is not how we work." So, who are "the living" that she can help out with? 🤔

i was rewatching the lighthouse case episode and i've came to the conclusion that Charles and Edwin get paid in trinkets. i mean, what would they need the money for? they are ghosts, they don't need to buy food or anything, Crystal is the only one that needs money but she hasn't always been in the agency. and that "we don't have it in our collection yet" about the magic 8 ball? i'm telling y'all those dead boys get paid in trinkets and other stuff they like

[danandfuckingjonlmao]

the most comphet thing that charles does in episode 5 isn’t even when he’s like “nah they’re just mates” or him projecting onto hunter and brad because they’re manly men and he wants them to be Good Guys bla bla bla none of that.

no, the most comphet thing in this episode is that charles rowland, light of my life, owner of my heart, saw these two scruffy scrappy stinky burly fuckboy jocks and then looked at himself, this genderfuck punk twink with the prettiest most delicate features i’ve ever seen and eyeliner and earrings and bisexual ass jacket, and edwin payne, the most clockable homosexual that has ever lived or died, the quintessential twink, with his stupid little gay bowtie and gloves and fancy jacket and button up shirt and little gay posh voice and the cunty feminine way he walks and gestures and edwardian vocabulary and syntax and everything about him and said, “they’re just like us, right edwin?” babygirl you are so delusional.

rip hunter and brad you would’ve loved being involved in both edwin’s and charles’s hate crimes </3

[technically-human]

When the ghost who read to you as you died activates all of your Must Protect instincts

[antichrists-plus1]

[They're in love.]

[pippin-katz]

I have no problem with the concept of Charles getting jealous of Edwin getting attention from other men. It’s specifically the idea that Edwin would start to actively look for and reciprocate that attention that my skin gets itchy. It’s one thing to have him receive that attention, brush it off, or have some quippy comebacks, and another entirely to have him actually go off with other guys.

It feels like a massive and uncharacteristic leap to have him go from discovering his identity and feelings for his best friend to playing the field simply because Charles’ response to his confession wasn’t an overwhelming and resounding “yes”. He showed interest in Monty, but did not want to pursue him because of his feelings for Charles, before he even understood their depth. Now he fully comprehends the magnitude of his love for Charles, and suddenly he’s okay going off with other guys?

Yeah, maybe it’s just the demisexual in me speaking, but that doesn’t sit right with me.

don't mind me i should be asleep. i still have mixed feelings about edwin in his season 2 slut era but i think it's what charles needs to wake up to his feelings. like, edwin needed the cat king posing as charles to see him in this new light. charles needs to see edwin in that light, too. and i think the jealousy in season 1 almost took him there.

[alexwilltellyouthings]

How is Edwin real!!! (Shut up you know what I mean)

He lives a shitty life for 16 years, dies and suffers like no one else for decades, does the unthinkable and escapes hell with only his will and wit, turning into basically the strongest ghost ever.

And then. Doesn't really lift a finger again. Doesn't even know how to throw a punch.

If you tell his backstory to literally anyone, people will imagine a macho hero figure, muscles crawling out of hell, probably cold and insensitive or very angry.

Instead you have this

And this

And this

I love him so much I'm gonna be sick