#we know Lilith had some sort of deal with adam

[keets-writing-corner]

you know what I've been thinking about lately? (forgive me the subtitles aren't working)

but basically yeah the whole mention that both Lilith and Alastor were gone for the same amount of time and this COULD mean she's the one on the end of his leash after all stories don't just give details out like that unless they're meant to be strung together somehow

but you know what I think

anyone know the whole "correlation is not causation" BS that companies like to preach about. Yeah drives me nuts too anyways

in my university science classes I finally got a better explanation for it and basically, it very frequently is a case of "yeah these two things seem to be connected somehow, WHAT IS THE THING THAT IS CONNECTING THEM?"

the hilarious example my professor gave was murder rates and ice cream sales going up, and the verdict is when it gets hotter, apparently ppl are more trigger happy on the violence cuz cranky, and also, more ppl are buying ice cream. I think she just said this to be ridiculous BUT

MY POINT BEING

Maybe Lilith is the one behind alastor's leash sure

but MAYBE there's a third component going on. Alastor and Lilith have SOME sort of connection that caused this 7 year absence, but that doesn't necessarily tie them to each other? if that makes sense?

idk I'm just rambling, but I swear we're missing a third piece to this puzzle

[naiadic]

I have so many emotions about the finale but I also have thoughts

~~~~~~~SPOILERS~~~~~~~

First off, AAAA HES SO BABYGIRL, but more importantly he implies he was with Eve, too

Now admittedly, what he "had to offer" could have just been free will and the fruit of knowledge, but given the sexual vibe here I really want to believe this man got busy with Eve as well

But that also raises the question..

...we know Lilith is Charlie's mother, but was Lilith really the one that raised her? In almost every mention of Lilith we see her horns, but not in those family photos (or her finale scene, come to think of it...)

Plus I mean we have this whole hair thing going on, Lilith is usually shown to have swooped back hair, like a lil pompadour deal, while Eve has straight unstyled hair. Idk about you but it sure looks like Lilith loved and cared about charlie, but somewhere in there Eve came in and started being Bad Mom

i think there's a lot to be uncovered there. Somehow, somewhere the girls must be pulling a twin-switcharoo on us, I Just KNOW IT

Then we have Adam

I feel like its almost guaranteed that fucker is gonna pop up in hell, hiding for awhile or otherwise, just like Sir Pentious popped up in heaven after dying. They're both human souls! He's committed pretty much every sin during his time in heaven (pride, lust, and wrath being the most prevalent) and if sinners can rise by doing well, angels can fall by doing bad

Then..well...Alastor.

Honestly homeboy is still quite a mystery. It's clear to me he's made a soul contract that binds his powers, somehow making him weaker than he could be. Whether this was with Lilith or someone else is up for debate, but most fans think it was Lil herself.

One piece of possible evidence for this is in E1 when Zestial mentions rumors of Alastor "falling to holy arms". He says this BEFORE any mention of Charlie, too.

Personally, I think Alastor might not even be a human soul, or that he's somehow made a deal with himself for better control of his soul, and maybe he fucked it up somehow or had another deal impact it, just because of what he said during the finale about sinner's recognizing their full potential. I look forward to seeing his story play out!

(Also I wonder if he has some sort of power bank deal cuz that cut healed suspiciously quick once he got to all that green light...maybe he's got an item that lets him access bits of his greater power? And repair that staff of his?)

So yeah that concludes my rant, Im so fucking excited for S2

EDIT: Someone pointed out that Sir Pentious wasnt killed by an angelic weapon, but by a power blast if sorts (plus we dont SEE him physically die). That makes me wonder if he might've simply ascended at the last moment rather than specifically dying and then respawning...if that's the case maybe Adam won't return..

[auteurdefeu]

We all know Alastor is great at seeing what people want most, what they fear, how their emotions can so easily be played. It’s how he got Charlie to make the deal when she knew she shouldn’t. He’s so good at knowing how to make people vulnerable and get under their skin.

There’s just so much ammo for Lucifer when he shows up. An absentee father, an even worse king, his entire family cast him from his home to burn forever and then his wife left him too, the one who was known for being capable. The fact Charlie is naive enough to see Alastor as a father figure as well just perfectly plays into it, and from the start, it seems so easy to get to Lucifer of all people. Someone who’s supposed to be so great, so easy to crumble with his ego and emotions.

Those initial interactions were a shock to Lucifer’s system. How dare a sinner speak to him with such open disrespect? What choice did he have but to fight fire with fire? (read: song battle)

But then the surprise of it all starts wearing off. He knows to expect it. He saw how broken Alastor was after fighting Adam, a reminder of just how fragile sinners’ souls are compared to that of a fallen seraphim. At the same time, Charlie had happily accepted Lucifer back into her life as her father. It’s not going to erase the years spent apart and his struggles with depression, but it’s a start. And he knows Alastor’s no real threat to him.

So at some point, Alastor’s jabs start being met with casualty, almost dismissively. It shifts from a playful annoyance like calling him short to something… well, cutting deeper. He doubles down upon how Lucifer abandoned his daughter, all so that he could hide with his toys, making himself a fool in his own nation.

Lucifer’s just making coffee. Saying that’s probably true, but Charlie is a kind soul who let him back into her life.

Not the reaction Alastor wanted again. So he pressed further, even blaming this dismissive attitude he had now as being why Lilith left. How could she have ever loved a man too scared to engage. She was always at the forefront of the show while he was too busy being buried in shame to be an even decent partner.

“One of many reasons, I’d guess”

It really irritates Alastor how much this isn’t getting to him. Lucifer had come to the hotel a terribly insecure man, so easy to mess with. And now, nothing?

Over the course of a week or so he keeps trying. And Lucifer just isn’t reacting. He cannot for the life of him figure out why. He knows everything he mentions is still an upset, it’s obvious in the way he talks with other people or the things he avoids, but it’s like he has some sort of verbal armor to Alastor’s attempts at drawing out a reaction from him.

The sad truth just ends up being that, whatever Alastor says, Lucifer’s said worse about himself. He’s had years to find every little detail about himself that could’ve been the catalyst for Lilith leaving, every little trait she likely despised for centuries, tearing apart the blurring memories of her face to see which expressions were genuine. Either everything about him, every step he’s made wrong, everything he’s lost or been forced to give up, he has a list of 20 things minimum as to why it’s all his fault. Alastor’s brutality is a toddlers insult compared to the things he thinks about himself.

The devil is madly depressed and just vibing his way through life ❤️

[knight-a3]

Hazbin Hotel Sketchbook 2: Part 2

Masterpost

Morningstars

I will have some design notes under the cut, so stay tuned.

Charlie and Lilith's snakes are all named.

Notes under the cut to minimize clutter. I'll try to keep it brief since I've talked about a lot of this before, and plan to go into more detail in dedicated character posts later.

Between dolls, snakes, apples, circuses, ducks, etc, there were just too many motifs/thematic elements to shove onto just Lucifer. So, I streamlined and distributed. Lucifer is goat themed, Lilith is snake themed. Charlie is a mix of the two. I also use this to partly to imply that "the Devil" is not solely Lucifer. But humans mistake various different demons as one character.

Charlie:

Her goat traits were inherited from Lucifer. Hooves, ears, etc. Also the tail. Her hair is designed to look like a goat tail.

Snake traits were inherited from Lilith. Vertically slitted eyes, hair snake, etc. Also doll cheeks and pale skin.

I had considered having her hair be totally made of snakes like Medusa, but that seemed annoying to draw, so I just did one. His name is Hugh, short for Hubris, which is a synonym for pride.

Lucifer:

He has far too many motifs in general. He needed streamlining.

Apples- I reduced this because I think it would be more fitting for Adam and Eve. Eve as the first to eat the fruit, and Adam because... Adam's apple, I guess.

Doll- I know Charlie is meant to resemble a porcelain doll. And in-universe gets it from her dad. But I don't really understand why, so I took it away from him and gave it to Lilith.

King- He does not have any real authority. It's a prison, and even Lucifer is caged. Nobody bothers to respect him. So the "crown" on his hat resembles a gate or cell bars

Ducks- I never understood the choice to associate Lucifer with ducks. And thematically, I can't really justify it. So...um... sorry, but no rubber duckies.

Goat- From what I understand, goats as a demonic symbol comes more from pagan influences rather than the Bible. Overall, Lucifer is a goat because he's been assigned the blame for all the evil in the world. He's the scapegoat. Placing sin on Scapegoats was a Jewish practice during Yom Kipper.

Lightbringer- the word lucifer is used once in some translations of the Bible to describe the arrogance of the King of Babylon in the book of Isaiah, but not as a name. Instead of directly translating the Hebrew word that meant "light bringer," "morning star," "dawn bringer," or "shining one," the Latin term was used. Lucifer often referred to the "star" that is the planet we now call Venus. It would be used to represent pride because it rose and fell before the sun. So the instance of lucifer in the Bible isn't even used as a name, and didn't even refer to the Devil. I say all this because I think it fits the scapegoat theme, and it's why I put a star on his tail.

Wings- Seraphim are described as having 3 sets of wings. Rather than deal with all that or even try to figure out the anatomy of that, I just gave them three sets of primary feathers, which sort of imitates the 6-winged look but is easier for me to draw.

Speaking of his wings. He lost them when he fell. So he does not have wings at all anymore. If he did, they'd be more like dragon wings.

Lilith:

Lilith is not a biblical figure. The word lilith was used once in just some English translations of the Bible. And it's referring to a type of demon, and not used as a name. Other translations change the term to shriek-hawk or similar terms, and is listed with various other night creatures. Lilith as a character appeared in Jewish lore, and was likely satirical. But away from theology and onto hazbin lore...

Because Lilith was originally created as a wife for Adam, she felt treated like an object or plaything rather than a person. So when she fell, she picked up a little bit of a doll motif that isn't prominent in these drawings. I essentially traded the doll features instead of horns. I'm still workshopping specifics.

She was just as involved(if not more so) with offering the fruit to Eve. Thus, she gets the motif of the snake. I didn't want to make her hair entirely snakes, because the long flowing hair seemed like a prominent design feature for her. So I opted to give her 7 hair snakes, one to represent each deadly sin/ring of hell. They're all named.

Pride= Vani (Vanity), she's the one on the top of her head.

Greed= Ava (Avarice)

Lust= Libby (Libido)

Envy= Desi (Desire)

Gluttony= Tony

Wrath= Irene (Ire/Irate)

Sloth= Sloth (too lazy for an actual name). He's the one coiled around her neck, usually sleeping. He also comes from the left side of her head.

Vaggie:

I leaned into the moth elements in her design. I think it was the Condalia Silk moth that I used as as my main reference.

When she fell, she was transformed into a demon like everyone else. So she isn't really an angel anymore and bleeds the same as the other sinners. Not even Lucifer really counts as an angel anymore, due to the corrupting nature of hell.

When Vaggie regains her wings, they are no longer angel wings but are instead moth wings to match the rest of her. They actually double as her hair via magic logic because I like it that way, and it lets me reference some of her older designs.

[shana-reviews-tmblr]

Why Adam became the Asshole he is in Hazbin Hotel (Also a theory about Eve)

So, I've had this theory going through my mind last night about why Adam is such an Asshole, and I think it has to do with his relationships with Lilith and even Lucifer.

I want to preface this beforehand though that even with this theory, if it's true, does not exempt of excuse Adam from his fate or his actions in the show.

Regardless of the cause, he CHOSE to be an asshole, he CHOSE the path he took, and it led to the fate that befell him.

That said here is my theory on why Adam became the monster that he is.

So, we know atm that Hazbin's origin for humanity is similar to what the bible (some of the "non-canon text" anyway) says.

Adam and Lilith were the first humans created, however due to Lilith wanting to be equals with Adam and Adam wanted Lilith to obey him, Lilith ran away, met Lucifer, they fell in love and the rest as we know became their history after they gave Eve the apple which doomed humanity.

But one detail that I find interesting is that we are given this origin as if it were a storybook being read to a child, which it sort of is as Charlie is reading the book she was read to as a kid herself.

this detail could implicate a biased viewpoint, as Lilith and/or Lucifer could have written this and as such could be an unreliable narrator.

I bring this up because in their biblical lore Adam, Lilith, and even Eve were created to be innocent as children, they had no concept of good or evil.

in this case, what if Adam thought how he treated Lilith wasn't wrong, because he had no concept it?

and Lilith because she is strong willed, just didn't want to deal with that which explains her leaving, neither could be seen as "the one in the wrong" because neither had an understanding of right or wrong, Lilith just wanted Adam to treat her equaling but because Adam was basically a child in an adult body didn't understand or comprehend what she was asking, or what he was doing was wrong.

heck thinking about it now, Lilith might have even been made more mature than Adam, and even if one was more mature than the other, this doesn't contradict either of them still retaining their innocence.

but I digress,

Even if Adam was innocent, it still led to Lilith being hurt by his disregard and eventually Lilith would meet Lucifer and the two fell in love, by then Adam had been given a new bride, who was Eve.

and as we know Lucifer, in a misguided attempt to help humanity gave her the apple from the Tree of Knowledge which would give Humanity the knowledge of Good and Evil.

What this story didn't mention though that is part of the biblical story of Genesis was that Eve gave the apple to Adam, and both ate it.

So if Adam in Hazbin followed suit, this means he also ate the fruit and became aware of everything that was going on, he was no longer innocent of what he was doing.

And just like in Genesis, for eating the fruit, Adam and Eve would be forever banished from Eden and be forced to now work for their food, living arrangements, etc. no longer having the comfortable life Eden provided and now having to struggle just to survive in a world that was still young and growing with no way of protecting themselves.

If Hazbin adapted this, then we have an explanation for why Adam is so cruel, vicious, and just downright evil to Lucifer, Lilith, Charlie and every Sinner in hell.

In Adam's viewpoint, he feels they deserve to suffer because they "ruined everything".

Adam was happy living his life in Eden with Eve and then here came Lucifer and Lilith witht he apple and now Adam had to struggle to provide for his family (possibly messing up A LOT as many theories arround Cain and Abel in Hazbin assume)

And it wouldn't be at all surprising if he probably also had a grudge against Eve as well (which I'll get into more detail at the end).

I bring this up because many fans have rightly brought up how Adam could even possibly be allowed in Heaven if he embodies so much evil and outside of the possibility that Heaven brought him up because they didn't want to acknowledge how much of a screw up he was.

it's possible that there were many other contributing factors:

he was brought up body and soul into heaven, out of pity for what happened, so his very soul was never given proper judgement.

He sided with Heaven and his views always lined up with how Heaven and even Humanity on Earth all view Hell and its denizens, so no one questioned his behavior because to everyone else he's seeing demons and hellborns for what they supposedly were, and Lucifer did cause things to go to literal hell so Adam was seen as not being at fault, which fed his now fully aware Ego.

It's also possible that as mentioned above, Heaven took pity on Adam and because Lucifer was the one who gave the apple which started the chain of events, Adam's behavior is seen as a side affected of Lucifer's fuck up, in other words Heaven might see Adam as the victim, which really shows how blind they must be if they didn't think to give Adam therapy or something to help him work through everything, instead treating him as their "baby boy" and letting his bitterness remain to rot his soul.

But regardless of which is accurate, if all of them aren't, these are the possible reasons for why Adam is the monster that he would choose to become.

He feels like everything was taken from him, when he just never understood that what he did drove his first wife away, who just wanted to be equal with him and not rule over him.

Heck, I'm pretty sure at the early points of their life before she left, Lilith did care about Adam, but when his attitude drove her off, he didn't have the maturity to reflect and realize he was the asshole and could have changed to win her back and be better, and him being innocent during that point can only excuse so much.

but with him feeling everything was taken from him, his 2nd wife (in his view) tricking and betraying him with giving him the Fruit they weren't supposed to eat and thus causing their banishment, on top of Heaven giving him such a high status because "he was the first human soul in heaven" fed his ego, allowed his bitterness towards Lucifer and Lilith more than likely caused whatever good (if he had any) traits to rot away until they were nothing.

All leading to him becoming the entitled little Frat Boy manchild we see in the show.

the kind who doesn't believe in second chances because he holds so much contempt for the people he thinks and feels wronged HIM.

and because he's in a high status, surely, he must be good, right? surely, HE must be in the right, right?

cause thinking otherwise would mean he'd have to come to terms with how his poor treatment of Lilith would make HIM the first domino to fall that caused his banishment.

and the court scene in S1 Ep6 really showed how uncertain even he was of his status as a good person and his way of doing things is what qualified him for Heaven.

Adam in the end, may have been the first human, but he also became the first asshole and while the show might prove me wrong on this, because yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if he was ALWAYS an asshole even before the apple and banishment.

It is an interesting thought to look at and see Adam's POV of how things went and that there is a possibility he, at first, wasn't the evil asshole bigot we saw him as.

I've seen fan art that depicted him as a sweet guy being pals with Lucifer and tbh i think this is who he once was in the main show, a once innocent nice guy who had bad traits, but was never able to properly grow and become wiser and more mature, instead letting his bitterness warp his viewpoint where he sees himself as the victim and taking it out on those he thinks less of because they remind him of the people he hates when all they tried to do was help or ask to be treated better.

The show is not going to justify Adam's behavior or excuse it, but I do believe it will at least humanize Adam and show he wasn't born evil; he just CHOSE to be evil, chose to see the people who really didn't want to wrong him or hurt him as his enemies, and as for his relationship with Eve...well, this part here dives into theory territory;

but personally,

I think THIS

Is Eve

My reason is that I think Viv is drawing from the many stories regarding humanity's creation.

because in some texts, Adam had not 1, not 2, but 3 Wives.

1st was Lilth

2nd was an unnamed bride who was destroyed after being created because Adam witnessed her creation and was so freaked out by the process, he refused to marry her because he was terrified of her.

If this unnamed bride is in Hazbin, this is who I think is actually the famous, Roo that Viv made art of between the pilot and the shows premiere.

because Roo derives from the term ROO-t of All Evil which could be a name she gave herself since she was never given one along with never being given a chance at life because she was unfairly seen as ugly thanks to Adam.

I wouldn't be surprised if she wanted to see the destruction of Heaven, Earth, and Hell since all three are places that represent the people she hates, her "sisters" Lilith(Hell), Eve(Earth), and Heaven.

Then finally we have, Eve

Eve i believe was made to be a copy of Lilith, she wasn't given her own identity and was made to be like Lilith in appearance, but because Lilith was strong willed and avoid what happened with her and Adam, Eve was made to be less strong willed so she would listen more to Adam.

And as I mentioned earlier, Adam also views Eve unfairly because he thinks she also tricked and betrayed him since she gave him the apple and caused them both to be banished from Eden.

Looking back to that moment from S1 Ep1, the implication is that Lucifer and Lilith took pity on Eve and gave her the fruit so she could rise above what she is and maybe giving the apple to Adam might, in their naïve view, help him mature and be better.

and if we go with the other fan theory that Eve is Charlie's biological mother, Adam probably knew about this, which we can see is why he was enraged when Lucifer bragged about plowing Eve, which adds another reason why he would hate Charlie since she represents what Lucifer took from Adam in his POV.

which would also add more to how angry he might have been with Eve, I shudder to think how he treated her after they were banished and when she had Cain, Abel, and Seth.

but to get to the point of this section, it's possible that if/when Heaven came to bring Adam up, Eve may have begged to come with him feeling guilty for her part in causing their banishment.

so, however it happened, Adam made a deal with her that allowed her to be brought into Heaven and whatever conditions there were, it's clear those conditions were wiped away after Adam's death with Lute telling her to go down and handle Charlie.

But not before making it clear that not only is she in charge of her now, but also, I think the reason Lute addressed her as "Lilith" at the end was because this was meant to hide her identity as Eve and to let her know she is going to be posing as Lilith.

Because Charlie only knows Lilith as her mother, so put some strings on Charlie, Lute pulls Eve's strings to get her to play the role, otherwise if she doesn't comply, she will be banished from Heaven and if Eve is more docile then it's not only a guarantee she'll comply and why she lowers her head at the end, but it also makes sense why Lute is acting high and mighty, because she is asserting herself to pressure Eve who won't fight back.

we'll have to wait till S2 to see if anything is confirmed or if all of this is disproven.

But yeah, this was my long thread about explaining Adam's POV and why he became the asshole he enjoys being while also going into how his viewpoint of his wives might be something that is also a thing that affects future events as well as explaining the ending scene from S1.

Once again these are all theories and the show could easily prove me wrong, but you gotta admit these are fun to think of, and I wouldn't put it past the show to give some nuance to Adam or just make him an asshole from the get-go

either way, it will be interesting to see how events turn out

[locustonlioden-blog]

Hazbin Hotel Episode Rewrites

Episode 1 (will be doing all of them)

Take out the “precious daughter” line. This makes no sense seeing how Lilith ditched the family and Lucifer is supposed to be super distant. We get 0 evidence these were involved, doting parents that put a bunch of effort into raising Charlie. Perhaps change it to “And now, its up to their precious daughter” meaning Charlie has taken it upon herself to mend things, instead of making it sound like she’s been coached all along for her role.

Adam and Lute are put off to find out its Charlie meeting with them, not Lucifer as usual. The meeting was arranged because of the very important matter of an exterminator angel being killed for the first time ever, and an important discussion was needed. Adam is much less a 1 dimensional comic relief dude bro.

“So, are you taking over extermination arrangements for now on?”

“Uh, no...actually, it was just kind of out of the blue that he told me about the meeting and asked me to come-”

(seriously, Lucifer supposedly didn’t know about the hotel, or at least he pretended not to, lets just assume he does but didn’t let on to Charlie that he’s watching her)

“Did he tell you why?”

“Ah, no-but, it was really convenient because you see, I have an idea that would actually END the need for exterminations-”

At this point Adam is seriously put off. They just found out demons can kill angels-this has to be a distressing revelation. Now of all times, the guy they have a serious deal with chooses to send someone who wants to talk about ENDING the exterminations? This would almost feel like a threat. So now they want out of the deal? No way! He would feel a need to reassert dominance and get things back under control. Who do these demons think they are? Cue their aggressive mocking and song, followed by throwing Charlie out as they do in the actual episode. He doesn’t even bother to explain why they are moving the extermination up. He’s not going to talk to Charlie. She has not established any sort of repertoire with him that makes him feel as though she is worth having an actual discussion with about a serious matter.

Commercial subplot: Alastor offers a deal to Vaggie in order to help make a successful commercial for Charlie.

“You’re insane, I’d never make any sort of deal with some shitlord

“Hm, such a pity, Charlie will be so let down to see how you fail to manage her project even a day without her. She has to do everything. Why are you even around? Do you really think the princess of hell needs physical protection from a sinner with a spear?”

*sighs* “You making the video for me isnt going to help that.”

“My dear, it wasnt raw power that bent all of Hells sinners to my will. You seem to know me quite well...(this is where we can reintroduce the Alastor lore Vaggie game to Angel Dust in the pilot, instead of waiting until the Mimzy episode to give anything) ...so you see, I have no problems getting things done, and I would be willing to teach you. Imagine what Charlie could achieve, and how much quicker, if she had a competent partner at her side…”

“I’m not making a deal! And you can have fun entertaining yourself with an empty hotel. Nobodys going to want to come to a place a powerful overlord like you so obviously takes as a joke”

“Well, I WILL make a worthy advertizement for the hotel, but I’m going to do it the RIGHT way, and do it for radio!”

She doesn’t make a deal here, but the seeds have now been sown. Her insecurity and feelings of inadequacy and worthlessness are gnawing. She has little feelings of self worth-would it be so bad to sacrifice herself in a deal with Alastor if it meant assuring Charlie achieves her dream? She is tempted.

Vaggie uses a little cunning here. While Alastor manipulates the inhabitants of the hotel to give fantastic line deliveries using a variety of amusing tactics, Vaggie secretly records with the video camera. At the end of the day, Alastor smugly announces that he has the radio ad all ready. When Charlie returns, Vaggie cuts in and says radio AND television ad! The ad then starts to play and is cut off by the news like in the actual episode. Alastor was initially amused she tried to make a tv ad anyway, but he sees enough to tell that she recorded him making the radio ad. His smile tightens, eyes narrow, and he fades off.

[dododan]

Alastor is a character I really like. Not only for the mystery we see in the series, but also for his design <3

Alastor resembles a deer, and I think deer have something dark and disturbing about them which is perfect for Alastor's character.

Certainly, the deer antlers that hang at my grandmother's house did not contribute to this….

I'm a horror fan and I listen to creepypastas or other scary stories to sleep, so it's no wonder I like Alastor so much.

And here are some small thoughts on the Hazbin Hotel finale! So much has been going on that I'm having trouble getting my emotions and thoughts together! It came out really great!

And if you're curious then beware because there are spoilers below!!!

So many things to think about and analyse after the Hazbin Hotel final!

Lilith - and her lounging on the beach in (presumably) heaven. She didn't seem happy to be interrupted by Lute. But how? What is she doing there? From Lute's words, it seems that Lilith had some sort of deal with Adam, who, through his death and Charlie's antics, their deal lost its power. It's hard to say what that might be about, because I find it hard to believe that Lilith would just lie back and have a go at everything. She loved The Hell and from the pictures you can see in the series she cared about her family. Maybe she made a deal with Adam to walk away from her family and go back to Adam and he wouldn't touch Charlie and Lucifer?

Sir Pentious - just excellent character development. Vivzie did a nice number with his story. Death. He dead in the name of friendship and his values. He experienced redemption! And everyone was betting that Angel Dust would be first XD But Sir Pentious deserved it. I'm sure the rest of the hotel team will find out very soon that Pentious is alive. Emily I'm counting on you! Sera's face was priceless!

Vaggie and Carmila's song was beautiful and wonderful. And I like how Charlie and Vaggie's love is so pure. They have something really special and strong.

Rosie was great too! I didn't expect her to be so charming and supportive. I'm not surprised that Alastor likes her.

Alastor… My favourite deserves a separate post to analyse his behaviour. But there we have it! Alastor is on a leash! He's got a deal that scares him and he's trying to get away from it. But I am increasingly doubting that he is relying on Charlie's help…. Al seemed terrified, although it's hard for me to tell at the moment in these emotions whether he was terrified by the very deal he'd made, or that the deal was taking away his freedom. It seems to me that Alastor craves power and authority, but rather not because he is narcissistic. It's more because more power might give him the ability to break this deal.

Just who did he make it with that it scares him so much? My theory was Lilith, but it's hard to tell now…. We just don't know what Lilith is like and we don't know her motivations, so it's hard to say if she was the one who made the deal with Alastor. If so, what is the true nature of this deal? I think the favour Charlie has with Alastor will be related to his deal. Maybe he will ask her to help him break it? After all, Charlie is a princess of hell, maybe she has the power to break such a deal?

Alastor also seems to be attached to the other residents of the hotel. He is changing! Perhaps he is mellowing through Charlie and becoming slowly good, or at least less cruel?

And his relationship with Niffty is just adorable!

The next season promises to be really exciting. There will definitely be more of Vox, Valentino and Velvette battling for power. Lilith will be back, there will be a new hotel…. There's so much going on!

I can't wait for the next season! As for Alastor, when the excitement subsides and I calm down a bit I'll be sure to analyse our radio demon in detail.

[libby-for-life]

How do you think this Adam who has memories of death and suffering love and just his long life and after life would deal with the fact that in Eden Death and all these bad things aren't even a thing yet. This Lucifer and Lilith haven't done anything to hurt him yet(aside from lying and sleeping together and avoiding him but now they love him and want him so thats fixed).

They think he is their sweet naive Adam but I wonder if part of him will be frusterated because he sort of ISN'T. would he ever snap at all this affection they want to give him because he can't understand why NOW? want to lash out and make them hurt because when they didn't notice 'Their' sweet adam was replaced? like dude is agrown as man and technically older in experience than these two..had a bunch of kids..went through alot of stuff..death twice even.

lucifer punching him over and over in that final battle despite giving into mercy thanks to charlie..would he wonder if the entire universe was reset? did everything he experience just.... not happen? was it just a vision of the potential future? a bad dream? does he think this is some elaborate punishment like heaven likes to give him and his loved ones when they get prideful or not obedient?

Would he ever miss the versions of lilith and lucifer he knew from the timeline he experienced despite the hurt and pain just because they would be comfortable in their familiarity?

its really interesting because Lilith and lucifer seem the ones more in control with a plan while they believe adam is acting odd and they want to know why but they basically still see them as their normal Adam.

while WE know the balance is a bit different because Adam has knowledge and has known them longer it seems cuz of the memories....

like when Adam fell from the tree it startled them both but i wonder if adam will have moments of being scared or on edge because he remembered when death and actual pain and hurt was a thing while lilith and lucifer might not notice/realize because those havent been invented yet.

considering lucifer is a angel...would he try to look a bit more into why adam's behaviour has changed?

like it seems they think its just adam realized that Lilith was sneaking away to be around lucifer and that adam and lonely and upset they'd lie and that he might have picked up on the distance....which could explain his behaviour....but WE know Adam's change is rooted a bit more deeply than that...will they notice more behaviour changes that don't quite line up with things?

I wonder if adam would ever kind of treat them like kids since these are younger versions of the people he knows? even if he's now in his younger body and technically the same age as lilith his mind/memories are older?

if adam is particularly talented at sex stuff...would lilith and lucifer wonder how he got that good without them realizing?

would adam ever have flashes of feelings like shame of his body or of being naked while lucifer and lilith pick up something wrong bt they won't have the context since shame was a punishment that hasn't been given yet?

and he can't really address it because he is trying not to be caught?

would they even believe him if he came clean about his memories? or is it his best bat to make sure no one has to suffer from the sins and free will? like before lilth seemed bothered about adam just doing as he was told and how it felt like he was going through the motions and just accepting everything at face value so she let herself doubt his ability to choose...but considering this adam know exactly what happens when they break the rules and can be an educated decision...would adam have more conviction in his choice about following the rules now that Lilith would notice or would lucifer and lilith be bias and think they know best and that adam is just being too cautious?

considering lucifer in now both their lovers(i guess) does that mean lucifer won't get in trouble now or would they want Adam to keep it a secret from the other angels?

Is adam startled at the sensitivity of his body even if his mind remembering being used to it?

I wonder if Lucifer and Lilith will catch on that Adam likes touch since Lilith seemed aware that Adam seems to like to cling and be close like the monkeys even if he tried to distance himself? would they start reaching out and touching and holding Adam first more?

i wonder if Adam will do more stuff for music to be made and stuff?

would Adam try working out to get stronger just in case he ever gets kicked out of Eden again?

dude wants to be upset at them so much but these versions are so sweet and feel so young vs the ones he knew and haven't done the worst yet. I wonder if he ever notices aspects the versions HE knows in his normal timeline now that he's comparing them to more naive honest versions of themselves...like they think they are so sneaky but is it kindof cute compared to their future versions? does he notice lucifer looks sincerely happy here and aspects compared to the more bravado version who was smug and kicked his ass but who was definitely also depressed? how lucifer likes creating things and was so gentle now but in that future needed someone else to snap him out of his rage....(though to be fair adam can probably understand a fathers protective rage). would adam compare this lilith to the one he made a deal with in the regular timelines? would lilith have a front to? but be more aware this lilith isn't really doing stuff for long planning just yet.

I wonder if Adam will also notice aspects like how this lucifer is treated by heaven or get lilith to actually tell him why she'd lie instead of hashing it out properly since dude WAS a father so probably could realize people don't react the way they do out of nowhere.

Does this Adam ever reflect on how he reacted to get where he was in the final battle before he was stabbed?

though I guess he never really knew why he was in heaven anyway so randomly getting thrown into the past wouldn't be the weirdness thing over all he's done. I wonder if he'll ever think about how he's killed people and seen people die and how this lucifer and lilith have no idea about that aspect and how scary it can be...hmmm.

will the other angels catch on that something is up?

Okay, so a lot to unpack from the Theirs au of yandere!Lucifer/Adam/yandere!Lilith. Read that if you don't want spoilers.

Okay, so Adam would definitely have some points where he does feel overwhelmed by it all. He has experienced more and it's hard to forget all that. He's going to sometimes think if what he experienced was even real...then why was it so vivid? He will even panic when something reminds him too much of his past...or is future? Adam isn't so sure....best not to think about it too hard.

Adam is definitely going to fight their love (read:obsession) and he's going to try to avoid them as best as can. He lasted a week before Lucifer found him in a cave. (Theirs! Part 2). Adam also learns what happens to angels, or humans, when they try to fight their love. Heaven has it's own set of punishment...

Adam wouldn't treat them like kids because they don't look like kids. They don't act like kids and they all have had sex so it would be weird for him to think of them as kids.

He would be conflicted about the *other* versions of Lucifer and Lilith....he doesn't want to think about that. It hurts too much.

Lucifer and Lilith think that they know better and they will delude themselves into thinking Adam will need them. (I'm headcanoning that they gain Knowledge by themselves before even attempting to eat the fruit.) He will try to fight them, but being constantly told that he needs them, being held against his will, and having sex with them until he's brought to sub space, well, it's a bit hard to fight them. He eventually will succumb to their will.

Adam was...okay at sex. But, despite Lilith being relatively new to it and Lucifer showing them all what he learned in Heaven, Adam still feels inexperienced simply because Lilith and Lucifer are *better* at sex than he is. You can have all the knowledge but if you can't implement it, then it's useless.

Lucifer will want Adam to keep their relationship a secret, the other angels would get furious if they knew that he had defiled the first man and woman of humanity.

He will have times of body shame, but Lucifer and Lilith are quick to assure him and love him and hug him until he stops saying them.

They catch it early on that Adam is touch starved, but will fight them, so they hold him against his will until he's calmed down and is docile. (They wait until he stops fighting and gives up due to exhaustion.)

Lucifer and Lilith want to do everything for Asam so they do. Adam doesn't need to work out or do anything too strenuous because they will do it for him.

And, well, they can be sweet to Adam. But they are *very* possessive of Adam. They won't tolerate anyone touching or being with Adam. They will get rid of anyone who thinks they can touch what is theirs. Be it some cherub or a new human that could pop up...they will eliminate the competition. Without Adam's knowledge of course. No need to upset him. (Part 5 of Theirs)

If anyone ever catches on to what they're doing, they will all be thrown out of Eden. Possibly Hell. Lucifer and Lilith won't care as long as they have Adam. Adam will be depressed for a while, but he isn't alone so *eventually* he gets...sort of better.

They will have fronts that they keep in front of Adam. They will try to hide their darker nature that keeps reeling their ugly heads. Adam will eventually see through it, but even now, he still thinks they are...well, weird and touchy and don't listen but he doesn't think of capable of anything truly nefarious.

Not yet anyway...

[psipies]

The case: What happened in Hell 7 (and a half) years ago

Good morning Detectives, I gathered you here because I need my best people to crack this case wide open! *slams fist on her palm*

I'm especially interested in the role of Alastor in all that shebang.

Let's start with the initial situation, shall we?

Population of Hell started to grew rapidly. We know that Lilith was working hard towards an uprising against Heaven. She was definetely more driven than Lucifer.

Obviously Heaven wasn't very happy about it.

Meanwhile Alastor appears in Hell. He quickly makes a name for himself, having the power that no mortal could have randomly. In no time he speedruns that whole being dead thing and gains the chair among the most powerful overlords.

He also have a thing going on with Vox. Partnership and probably future plans.

Ok. So now we are at the point when Shit Hit's The Fan. *adjusts her glasses*

What facts do we have, based on the dialogues and reactions between our demons of interest:

1. Lucifer made a deal with Heaven that they promise not to kill hellborns during Exterminations. Obviously he mainly had Charlie in mind. So it implies that her life was at stake at some point. Maybe Heaven threatened to wipe all Hell to the ground in one take? Maybe something else.

2. Lilith made a deal with Adam. Or it was a deal tieing her somewhat to him. We learn that by her last conversation with Lute. "Adam is dead. Your deal is off." Also her deal could probably include her staying in Heaven... With Adam? Or just to take her out of the Hell's picture? Either way, it definetly was a jab at Lucifer. To add an insult to the injury.

3. Alastor have something to do with the whole Extermination Talks. He dissappeared at the peak of his power, having a pretty good thing going for himself. His power just couldn't came from nothing, so he gained it through a deal with someone powerful, right after he appeared in Hell. We can assume that this power could be granted only by someone really powerful, someone who had an interest of having an overpowered demon (with a bunch of powerful overlords souls in his pocket) on his leash. Maybe to have him as a lieutenant of some sorts... We could assume that could be Lilith... BUT! Zestial said that there is a rumor that Alastor was absent because he made some deal with... Heaven. Do Haven have any hell-power granting bilities? Dunno. So maybe it's a gossip about him in general being entangled in the talks with Heaven. And let's not forget that him staying close to Charlie is no coincidence. We hear Vox saying "we can't let him making any deal with her". It's obvious that having Charlie on the leash would give him crazy leverage over everyone. But I think that he may try to kill two birds with one stone here - he's doing whatever he was ordered by his master/mistress to do (whatever this is), in the same time trying to free himself out of the deal and regain full power. At that point I think he may be even under two deals. Initial granting him his power, and the second one which somehow restrains him. But maybe I'm taking it way to far.

4. Lucifer made the deal with Heaven as a lesser evil. Maybe just to protect lifes of his family, maybe also to decrease the scale of the Extermination in general. Still better to be purged once a year, sparing the hellborns, than being in an open constant war. He lost his wife in this deal, who he still loves (he still wears his wedding band). We can assume that he pushed Charlie away out of guilt and shame. We also know that Alastor is fuckin pissed at him. Concluding from Alastor's reaction in first second he sees The King of Hell, they have a history. A seven year old history, if you please 😏 Knowing Alastor, his feelings doesn't came from the place of being concerned about lifes of the sinners. It's about his own thing. Somehow Lucifer's decisions fucked with the good thing he got going for himself. He was forced on his "sabbatical" by it. Maybe it even forced him to break his partnership with Vox.

*exhales*

Ok, Detectives, let's go! I want to hear some good theories!

*angrily throws the folder on the desk and looks around the room*

[st-dorothy-minority]

You Didn't Know - Radioapple slow burn

We'll see how long it stays up before the next mental breakdown around writing/fandom hits.

Rating: Explicit Warnings: Graphic Depictions Of Violence, Major Character Death, Rape/Non-Con Relationships: Alastor/Lucifer, Lilith/Lucifer, Alastor/Vox (much later and brief) Tags: Angst, Angst and Hurt/Comfort, Heavy Angst, Angst and Feels, Angst and Tragedy, Angst and Romance, Slow Burn, Torture, Aftermath of Torture, Depression, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder - PTSD, Enemies to Friends to Lovers, Tragic Romance, Tragedy, Dark, Dead Dove: Do Not Eat, Rape, Past Rape/Non-con, Rape Recovery, Rape Aftermath, Gang Rape, Self-Mutilation, Self-Harm, Suicidal Thoughts, Suicide Attempt, Sexual Violence, Violent Sex, Violence, Disfigurement, Demon Blood, Blood Drinking, Demon Blood Addiction, Self-Sacrifice, Some Fluff, Hurt/Comfort, Emotional Hurt/Comfort, Secret Relationship, Trauma, Trauma Bonding, Restraints, Power Dynamics, Dubious Consent, Blood Magic, Blood Kink, Drug Addiction, Unhealthy Coping Mechanisms, LOT of hurt before comfort, Family Issues, Mutilation, Self-Worth Issues, Body Modification Summary: After being confronted by Charlie for not taking out Adam sooner, Lucifer's darkest secret is at risk of being exposed by the last person he'd ever want knowing: Alastor. As a result of forcing the devil's hand to make a deal, both end up getting a bit more than they'd bargained for.

----****---- *huff*….*huff*….“Nnnhhh….”

“You’re quite an exquisite sight right now. And can you hear that? The sounds of your people being exterminated for good like the filth they are? Better get used to it. Heaven’s retribution against you will come once a year, too. Luckily for you, you’re unkillable. Or maybe, that makes you unlucky.”

An agonized scream filled the secluded forest, and the tormentors laughed at the visible anguish on their captive’s face and the golden blood gushing from the newest wound.

Grabbing a fistful of blonde hair to pull the fallen angel’s head up so the others could look upon his beaten and bloodied face, the edge of a blade was placed against his throat, poised to slice.

“Look at you. Pathetic. God’s mercy can’t save you now. You deserve to suffer. You can never be redeemed.”

The crack of a whip rang out, followed by a cry of severe pain that soon devolved into stifled weeping.

“Always remember you did this to yourself. You’re to blame for everything….Lucifer.”

------------------------------------------------------

**Present day – many, many years later**

**** “Thank you again, Rosie!”

Charlie enthusiastically waved goodbye as the Cannibal Town overlord and her people returned home, angel carcasses (and those of their own kind) in hand. It certainly made that part of the cleanup much more bearable!

She turned her attention back to the hotel, her heart filling with love at the sight of everyone in such visibly high spirits after the victory. Even her dad seemed to be enjoying himself, albeit getting noticeably prickly whenever Alastor made any sort of comment.

She sighed, dreading the conversation she knew she needed to have.

I have to ask, she thought despondently. I have to know.

She tiptoed towards the group, lightly tapped her finger on her dad’s shoulder, and-

“Oh hey, Charlie!” he greeted ecstatically as he whirled around. His cheerful temperament was making her stomach lurch. “Dad, can I talk to you?” she asked in a more serious tone. He failed to catch on to this and replied happily, “Of course! What is it, kiddo?” “Well, um….could we go somewhere else?” The nervous look on her face told him that he had indeed misread the room. His own expression turned anxious as he agreed. “Oh, uh, sure.”

They walked around to the other side of the hotel, neither knowing that they had garnered the interest of someone following them in shadow.

-------

Continue reading on AO3: https://archiveofourown.org/works/60417070/chapters/154218145e

[ilikekidsshows]

I hope I didn't miss it on your blog, but what are your thoughts in Lilith in Hazbin Hotel? Do you think she's evil? Good? Nuanced grey area?

I personally really REALLY hope that while Lilith most likely genuinely did do alot wrong, like not really supporting Lucifer with his former plan to help sinners because she couldn't leave her dislike of heaven behind and didn't wanted Charlie anywhere near all that and Lucifer while he insisted on perusing that dream

I still truly hope that Lilith in that case came to realize later on that her own actions and pride caused alot of damage, too, and that she's trying to help her family in her own way. Like, her agreeing to the deal with Adam to stay in Heaven and leave her family behind to make sure they are 100% spared.

Or maybe Lilith put something in motion in the last 7 years in Heaven that resulted in it being possible for a sinner to be redeemed.

Sorry, im rambling. I just hope that there will be interesting nuance to Lilith. I'm perfectly fine with her being a very flawed individual and that she caused genuine damage and pain for her loved ones that she has to take accountability and make up for now. I just want there to be more than Mom = Evil

What about you? ^^

---

I haven't had much of a chance to discuss Hazbin Hotel yet, actually. I didn’t expect to have this much to say about Lilith, since all we know for a fact is that 1) she’s been missing for 7 years, 2) she recently had a beach vacation at an undisclosed not-Hell location (people are assuming Heaven, I think Eden might also be an option), 3) she had a deal of some sorts with Adam. That’s not much to go on. Lilith is running her own agenda that involved Adam in some way. Did she approach Adam with an agreement of sorts, or was it Adam’s idea? If it was the latter, was she a willing accomplice or was she forced in some way? The situation is vague enough that it could go any way.

We can make some assumptions, however. Like, the family pictures of the Morningstars present very mixed ideas of the family. Images of a young child Charlie with her parents show them as being happy and smiling and hugging each other close. Images of a teenaged Charlie, however, show an uncertain Charlie and parents putting up a front. Lucifer’s sincere smile has been exchanged for an arrogant smirk while Lilith’s smile has turned distant and mysterious. They also stand more stiffly, further apart. Of course, you can make the argument that these are official royal portraits, but then why is the princess presented so unregally? Why haven’t the family made any cute snapshot paintings for Lucifer to hang up in his workshop, why is it those early childhood images? This all tells us that the Morningstar family was genuinely happy at some point, but not anymore, which has led them to grow more distant from each other, but what caused that is a mystery.

Another thing to note is Charlie’s clothing style. In any portrait including Lilith, Charlie wears feminine clothing, with black as the dominant color, which is a color Lilith also prefers. Grown Charlie, however, wears masculine clothing and favors red, which makes her style more similar to her father’s. For some reason, Charlie takes turns emulating her parents. Is it a natural “I want to look like that” reason or has Charlie been stuck between her parents while they had issues with each other? In an episode revolving around Charlie and Lucifer’s relationship, the only shot of the actual Lilith we see is a flashback of her pulling Charlie away from Lucifer.

Lilith is, at this point, sketchy. However, this is all so vague and so based on vibes that it could all be one big Red Herring. It could very well be that, when Lilith shows up in season two, she’s the perfect, loving wife and mother to Lucifer and Charlie, and any drama between them was just caused by a lack of communication.

Now, as for what I think would be interesting? I think Lilith being evil would be really interesting and cool, but only if she also genuinely cared about her family as well. Almost every time there’s an “evil” mom in media they’re just abusive, toxic or bad at parenting. I think the idea of a mom who’s started doing heinous things to further her own goals, while also being conflicted about how her pursuit of said goals takes her further away from her family, would be top tier. That archetype is always reserved for the villain dad character and we need some more variety in women’s wrongs. A woman can be evil without it meaning she’s a complete failure as a mother. Motherhood should not be a measuring stick of how evil someone is. However, this is all my preference, and I think Lilith would be interesting even if she wasn’t evil, if she was still casted in an antagonist role.

Another thing is, Lucifer is actually an antagonist in episode 5. Charlie had to win him over before he would help her in her goals. I think Lilith also serving an antagonist role would be so good for Charlie’s character development, and it would flesh out Lilith too, and her being a more difficult obstacle in comparison to Lucifer would be a fitting way of upping the stakes. Like, the Hotel has been stated, in-show, to be a way for Charlie to channel her unresolved family problems into something productive. It would just be wasteful if they didn’t go further with it by having Lilith also oppose the Hotel for her own reasons.

You could have all kinds of takes on antagonist Lilith, and not all of them even have to make her evil. Maybe she thinks the project is putting Charlie at an unreasonable risk, maybe she lost her faith in the citizens of Hell or doesn’t want them to be saved anymore, maybe she wants to actually conquer Heaven/Eden for her people and opposes redemption because it’s the same as agreeing to follow Heaven’s rules for all eternity to her. I definitely think there’s more to Lilith than her being one-dimensional, be that one-dimensionally evil and cruel to everyone, or one-dimensionally pure and loving to everyone. I think her being one-note after this buildup would just be the worst.

Basically, I’m 90% sure Lilith is going to be an antagonist when she shows up. I’m hoping she’s also at least a little bit evil, because that would make it spicier, but I don’t want her to be irredeemable or too unlikeable, so I’d prefer she was evil in a way that wasn’t just “Muahaha, I actually hate my family and want them to suffer!” but more like “My personal goals are more important than being there for my family. Prove me wrong.”

So, this is kind of a theory but also my preference; I don’t think Lilith’s absence from Charlie’s life is for completely altruistic reasons. But I also think she’s not going to be the kind of mother Charlie would be better off cutting off all contact with. We could go with a Lilith redemption most likely, since that’s what this show is all about, and it would be great to get a redemption with a more important character.

[contrivedchaos]

Once the girls found out that Lilith had been in heaven for all those seven years, they feel sick to their stomach’s. Odette had overheard some angels talking about it and it made her stomach drop, was heaven the place Lilith had been for these years? And Clara had only found or when she had found her older sister out on a balcony, nearing a mental breakdown over the subject. It made the color drain from Clara’s face as Odette hastily explained what she heard through her emotions.

The girls desperately want to hate Lilith for abandoning them, for abandoning hell, for abandoning Lucifer and Charlie…yet they can’t bring themselves to hate her. Maybe it’s due for how long she has been in their lives or maybe it was because they too understand wanting to escape from hell and from everything.

That would be a world-shattering discovery for Odette to just overhear. Maybe Adam's Exterminators couldn't keep their mouths shut. Seven years may not be a substantial amount of time in Hell, but it's long enough for people like Vox to notice how long Alastor had been gone, or for Charlie to wonder what's keeping her mother away. And Lilith's role seemed sort of like Emily's in Heaven, keeping up morale among the Sinners and spreading what little joy she could by singing to her subjects. I'm sure everyone has felt her absence, especially other Hell royalty, the Overlords, and Carmilla's family.

I had a knee-jerk reaction when we learned about Lilith, too. Like, did she really up and leave Hell, leave her family, for an extended vacation on the beach??? Or is she trapped in a contract? Did she make a deal with Adam to protect Charlie, with the stipulation that she has to butt out of Hell and stop inspiring Sinners, which may have someday pushed them to overrun Heaven and end the Exterminations? We know people who own contracts can also be HELD in contracts. Since Adam is gone, did any potential contract she had with Adam get transferred to Lute? There are too many unknowns.

I imagine thoughts like these would be swimming around in Clara and Odette's heads, as well. They'd be shocked, but maybe holding on to hope that there is some explanation. This doesn't sound like the Lilith they know. They understand the desire to escape Hell, but they don't think she'd do something like that without a good reason, like if it was somehow to protect Charlie.

[sirdust]

THOUGHTS ON THE FINALE?? bc it was a lot for suuree

| any thoughts on the last 2 episodes??? i sure do have mine i was like wth throughout the whole thing😭 |

apologies for the radio silence 🫡 i've been busy and also not very enthusiastic about discussing this show, lol. been in the process of packing up my autism and moving it over to transformers.

anyways sure i'll give my thoughts.

as my friend who i was watching the eps with said during ep7, "this version of hazbin hotel where women exist is a lot more interesting"

ep7 was probably the most tolerable character-wise even though it suffered from the same general pacing problems that we saw throughout the rest of the season. charlie felt like an actual character who experienced inner turmoil, and while i didn't like "out for love" very much as a song, the sequence itself was solid. carmilla badly needed more presence in the story for how much they treated her as an important character, though.

i'll also say that i think rosie is the most likable character in the show period. she has a cute design and a charismatic personality, and i wish she had shown up earlier. it was weird that she and alastor acted as if they had just reunited when they saw each other in ep3, though.

the final battle was disappointing all around for both obvious and non-obvious reasons. vaggie badly needed a big heroic moment, but she was fighting lute (who simply does not feel like a real threat) for so much of it that her actions during that part of the episode had very little impact. especially since she was the one to figure out how angels can be killed in ep7 (which was admittedly a plot point that did not need to exist, aside from it facilitating charlie and alastor's deal, but i digress).

i also am pretty miffed that charlie only got one or two good hits in on adam before needing to be saved by lucifer. it was like they couldn't decide whether they wanted to do a team-up or to give lucifer a moment showing off how powerful he is to be able to fight adam one-on-one.

i don't know if there's anything for me to say about what they did to pent that hasn't already been said. i doubt he's going to be relevant in s2, but even if he is, i really don't care. it's baffling incompetent to treat a character death as a comedy beat one moment and then dramatic the next. it winds up not making me feel anything at all. (and on a pettier note, i hate his redesign.)

i've never been huge on adam. his character had potential but was continually wasted in favor of being another shallow commentary on toxic masculinity (which is much too prevalent in spindlehorse shows, i'd argue. the issue isn't with the thematic choice but how vapid the execution is). i'm also hung up on the fact that he's clearly meant to look like alex brightman, but the writers have lucifer make a fat joke about his appearance. fatphobia in these shows has always been an elephant in the room but i feel that this crosses some sort of line.

i don't think i have much else to say? i could go more in-depth of course but i'd have to refresh my memory and i don't have the time or desire to rewatch any part of the season right now. i've gotten pretty much all of my gripes with the show as it stands out of my system.

this blog will likely continue to get some use in the future, but i'll probably be increasingly inactive on here. the silver lining of all this is that hazbin's success may, if nothing else, help pave the way for execs greenlighting more queer animation, but we'll have to wait and see. here's to better shows being made in the future though 🥂

ETA: oh and i've been calling twist villain lilith since 2019 but i have nothing else to say about that.

[newsies-demon-ducks]

lucifer memory dump (doubles ok to int!), maybe also looking for canon mates? lmk if any of this resonates with you (ESPECIALLY CHARLIE AND/OR MY NONCANON HELLHOUND)

i had a horrible memory due to depression and it made me forget a lot of important things like schedules and birthdays and pretty much all of charlies childhood. lilith got mad at me for it quite often

lilith and i never really got officially divorced, she just kinda up and left one day. she still talked to charlie, just not to me. it was about three years before she stopped talking to her too

i was autistic and adhd. like, bad. one of my most vivid mems was charlie talking to vaggie about something like, two feet away from me, and she looked back at me and went "plus i think hes autistic" and i said "no im not! i dont know that that is but i am not that."

my cane wasnt just for looks. keeping my wings hidden most of the time really did a number on my back

adam and i started dating in secret sometime in between episodes five and six. he warned me ahead of time that the extermination was being moved from six months to one, and that it had been seras idea. i didnt believe him until it was too late

he wasnt NEARLY as bad of a guy as he is in the show not by a LONG SHOT. he was foul mouthed and had anger issues but he had a lot of respect for his troops, especially lute. they were best friends. he was also homoromantic bisexual and it took him until we started dating to realize that that was the reason why he wasnt happy with lilith or eve

after ep 8, he came to my palace as a sinner telling me he had fallen (which! holy shit had it been a long time since there was any fallen angels of such a high status)

he and i had adopted a hellhound at some point. he named her after lute. she was a little dalmatian that looked a bit like the background one from helluva boss with heart shaped spots and one white eye and one pink eye. charlie loved her SO much. i remember handing little lute to her and she just started bawling. when she turned 17 i made her a deal that as long as she was okay with being a public royal figure (she had been mostly out of the limelight), she could also be immortal like the rest of our family.

another kid related thing was cain was the only one of adams kids that ended up in hell. he didnt have a special demon form, he just looked like a normal human. i reintroduced them (kinda hard to not keep track of the first other sinner!) and he became part of the family too (though not nearly on the same level as lute or charlie, he just dropped in every now and then)

there was some sort of massive falling event where a bunch of angels had gotten kicked out of heaven after they instated more official rules. adam ran a program on one half of the hotel to get them more accustomed to life in hell, sort of like the opposite of charlies plan

[awesamkiller]

Here’s My question.

Why did Charlie send Alastor to deal with Adam?

I mean, yes, he’s powerful, but he’s an overlord! He’s below her by a significant margin in terms of power!

There’s the theory she could have been trying to get rid of him after that deal put her in an indebted spot, but we know Charlie isn’t that sort of girl. She sees him as a friend, and she loves her friends. When she had thought he was dead, and he reappears, this cements that she cares about him and his well-being!

So this leaves us two theories.

- Charlie did not know her own true power,

OR:

- For some reason, she was under the impression Alastor was stronger than her.

The first one is plausible, but… she’s the daughter of Lilith and Lucifer, by all logic she must know she’s a powerful demon!

The second one brings questions. Why would she think that? Does she have some sort of clue that Alastor is on a leash, does she know? Even so, how would that make him more powerful?

This choice has left me with QUESTIONS.

I really appreciate how the finale really gave us a good sense of the full scope of Alastors power

In that he poses ZERO actual threat to Adam beyond being an annoyance and is completely taken out of the fight after ONE solid hit.

Meanwhile CHARLIE is able to land several good hits, actually HURT the world’s first and biggest douchebag, and is able to shrug off what was clearly a pretty substantial beating before Lucifer showed up.

Simply put, our resident cooky deer boy is not NEARLY the big shot that we, or HE actually thinks he is.

And I think that makes Alastor FAR more interesting.

[glapplebloom]

And no, this won’t cost me $50,000

You may recognize VivziePop from Helluva Boss, but their main bread and butter is Hazbin Hotel. From the pilot, Amazon got the rights to it and gave them 8 episodes to work with for Season 1. While I already know most of what is gonna happen, I still haven’t seen the episode properly. Luckily Prime Video has the first episode free to see on youtube. Off the bat, the Pilot is slightly longer than the original, so I suspect most will be the same but some things cut. 

It begins with the origin of Heaven and Hell. Sort of similar to your Christian Ideology, but various differences. For starters, there seems to be no god. Tons of Angels but they seem to be the one in charge of everything. They created Adam and not Eve but Lilith. Lucifer and Lilith wanted to give Humanity Free Will, by using the Apple that in the Bible was from the Tree of Knowledge.

So this allowed Evil to exist apparently and the two were sent to the newly formed hell. While Lucy was giving up since he can only see the bad they do, Lilith was helping the citizens of hell prosper. But this caused Heaven to fear Hell and created an extermination squad to decrease the surplus population there. So while Lilith is gone, Charlie (her daughter) has the dream of helping Hell.

So off the bat, with the knowledge I know, this definitely sounds like a “Winners History”. I’ll leave this as a Research Bin Subject for now and continue the recapping. So Charlie is talking to Vaggie and we find out Lilith is gone for seven years now (and spoilers, relaxing in Heaven). But apparently Alastor has something for them. Okay, the first episode is actually after the Pilot. Good to know.

He made a commercial and it's as degrading as you can imagine a commercial to be. Like imagine the “we’re not Detroit” commercial without that upside. So a commercial for Detroit (just kidding). They weren’t a fan of it. So it is a week after the Pilot. Angel makes a suggestion and it's porn. They shoot it down. So sometime later, apparently the leader of the Angel Army wants to meet up and Charlie’s daddy suggests for her to do it. Cue song.

Eh, the first song doesn’t do it for me but I can imagine others liking it. Honestly it's hard to compare when Moon Girl Season 2 had a killer soundtrack that’s more my speed. At the Angel Building, we see Charlie meet Adam, the first man. He’s pretty much the big reason my Research Bin subject on this is going to be about what I think of this interpretation of the Afterlife. 

So while Charlie deals with Adam, Vaggie suggests making a better commercial. It goes as you can imagine people who think they can’t be redeemed and Niffty being Niffty. And speaking of Charlie, it also goes as badly as you think as Adam is all about saying that Hell is Forever. Things turn around for Vaggie at least since she made a deal with Alastor to have a commercial be good in exchange for him never having to interact with Television. And in bad news, instead of a year it’ll be six months till the next extermination.

And before the commercial could air, breaking news tells the others the bad news. But there may be more to this than Adam being a jerk. They found a dead angel. They’re not going in now because they don’t want to alert the demon who was able to do that. Still six months. Overall, it is an interesting start. Charlie is hopeful, Vaggie helps bring her down to Earth (in a manner of speaking) and so far I do enjoy the other characters not from Heaven.

With what happens later, I know more questions and answers will appear but will it actually make it to the End of the Year List? Who knows. It is just 8 episodes.