#what’s this and how is this related to mclennon?

[lynchianightmare]

I haven’t heard anyone talking about this…

Could someone enlighten me?

?????????????????? WHAT

The collateral effects of having dated Paul

WHY ARE THEY SO GOOD?

Entrepeneur queen

ALSO THE BEST ONE

IM PEEING MYSELF THIS CANT BE TRUE LMAO

(Also, my posible future pfp…)

[eloeloanna]

What did happen between John and Paul in India?

This was made for entertainment purposes only. Don’t sue me Paul (or Yoko (or Sean).

-

Check my readings! Did McLennon ever happened here What John thought about Paul here What Paul thought about John - part 1 here | part 2 here What happened between John and Paul in Paris here What John thought of Paul's appeareance here What Paul thought of John's appeareance here John's feelings + In my life + Paris' tea here Paul's feelings + Paris' tea here Was Paul jealous of Stuart? here Was John jealous of Tara? here Was Paul jealous of Cynthia? here Relationship - questions related to that topic here What happened between John and Paul in Keywest 1964 here George's pov here MORE here

-

Some notes:

Please don’t be dumb and harass the people mentioned in this interpretation. If you have the information - you have it, good. Enjoy their love in the fandom ❤️ do your fics, do your art.

I know that this is not everybody, but I feel we are dealing with very delicate matters.

It took me a lot of days doing this because I didn’t want to sound like a fic. I know many people have their theories, even myself! So that’s why I repeated some questions, and did it in different days. Also, I didn’t read the answers, so when something matches, it’s surprising even for me.

That’s all. Now, enjoy!

_

Answer 1:

What the cards are telling me at the beginning, is that this trip was made to do something about a relationship. It had been very difficult to try to continue, since there was a feeling that someone was very confident, opposed to someone very depressed. The depressed one didn’t know what to do anymore because he needed a sense of stability, security. He felt that this wasn’t enough, and even that the other one was mocking him, for his neediness. I think this person couldn’t see objectively at all what was happening, because, even If was part truth what he thought, the thing is, it wasn’t “that” big.

I think he tried for once to be really honest and just ask what was this all about. “Do you love me?”. I think the answer didn’t come immediately. And wasn’t even satisfying. I think the other part thought that he say it back, but he didn’t properly. So there was this part that thought that was being fooled, and the other one that thought that everything was okay. I think the “depressed” one thought something like “anyway, I knew this would happen”, and tried very hard to don’t have any feelings, and just “enjoyed” the trip. I think then is when he thought “I need to do something”. It was like that moment put him back in order to do new things. This was a decision for his own happiness. “I’m going to fall in love with her”. What are telling me the cards after is how he stuck with his decision, even if it wasn’t the best. The other part is showed at the end. Knowing that he can’t do anything about it.

Answer 2:

I think that at the beginning was a sensation of something not being complete. That some of them wanted more, that the relationship wasn’t balanced. He wanted to do something about it, but he couldn’t do it. “We have to left all bullshit aside, to have the relationship we really want” , to leave the imbalances behind, but I can’t face the truth. Even when the truth is very obvious. It’s difficult to face the truth when there are things that escape our control, and we know that this always is going to be like this. But even with those feelings, he decided anyways to say what he wanted, and thought that everything would be good. So he did it. But it was “good” for a short time. Then everything went to hell. It’s like all this closeness was virtual. Was this proposition reciprocated? Yes. Could be fulfilled? No. The thing is, this person felt tricked, and it was like “I have nothing to do here” “Is he even regretting his attitude?” “Well, I DON’T regret it what happened, but I did so much to receive nothing” “You never loved me” “I’m going to be happy. WITHOUT YOU. I don’t care. I will fight for it”. He didn’t care if he felt confused, or trapped, or whatever would happen. He would do what he needed to do.

Why John felt depressed before going to India?

I forgot to take a picture here…sorry!

I think John felt depressed because he could see clearly the future: he could see himself being happy, with love, with opportunities, but at the same time, his reality was heavy: he felt abandoned, incapable of doing things, and even betrayed. I think it was difficult for him to forget that “betrayal”, and tried to tell (Paul) what he thought. I think the answer was the same as before. “Everything is okay”. I think John eventually thought that this wasn’t enough. The relationship was imbalanced, Paul was being arrogant. It was very difficult to even think what to do, because in a way, he felt happy. I think he couldn’t see that Paul actually loved him.

Is the “betrayal” that John felt about Paul marrying Jane?

I think some of his depression was because of that event.

The cards start telling me about the feeling of not wanting to change anything, and even ignoring the signs: he thought that from the most part Paul wasn’t serious with Jane, but he saw how his attitude changed. He was more considerate and present in her life. I also think John intuitively knew that what Paul wanted. He wanted to construct something. Did John say or did anything about this? No. I think he just let those thoughts cold and tried to “enjoy” their time. “Everything is going to be alright”. Until eventually it wasn’t. He couldn’t stand the feeling of changing. It was like he was standing behind a door, but not wanting to open it. I think when Paul proposed to Jane, it wasn’t a “serious” commitment proposal. But in John’s head was a bigger issue. John was heartbroken. He thought that having somebody else would soft his feelings, but it didn’t.

It’s very weird, because, when I answered this question, for me it wasn’t like this was the “bigger” issue. Was an issue? Yes. But not the main one.

-

A lot of theories said that what “ruined” Paul and John’s relationship in India was sex. So I asked about that multiple times, because as I said, I didn’t want it to sound like a fan fiction.

Was India the first time they had something sexual?

I think yes.

The cards start telling about how much they wanted this to happen, but they couldn’t because they thought they needed to use their heads. After some time and reflection, they thought that what they had wasn’t enough, they wanted more. But the thing is, it had to pass a lot of time until they realised that wanting something more for the other, wasn’t wrong, after all, they loved each other, right? But the thing is, there was a fear of almost losing yourself in the other person. “What is he going to do with me?” When the opportunity occurred, it changed everything. There was a immediate feeling of guilty, also, it trigger their self-defenses (one was like “are you sure?”, the other was “yes, but we need to be careful”); I think at the beginning there was absolutely feelings of passion and satisfaction, but one of the parts knew it wasn’t real, it was something that was happening in like, a bubble. In the outside world, they would still be old John and Paul. I think that one of the parts couldn’t see clearly, was the love that the other had for him, or maybe, he saw it, but it was too much. Any of the options made the “loving” part heartbroken.

Did they had a sexual encounter before India?

Yes, but I would say it wasn’t that important as India. Why?

What the cards start telling is that there was a proposal to do something, but the other part wasn’t very sure. He thought that somebody could caught them, something bad could happen. But it isn’t like he didn’t like the idea. He liked the idea very much. There was suddenly a moment were they could do something, but it had to be very quickly, very secret. It wasn’t enough. They obviously wanted more, but how they could do that? There was an opportunity when everything they wanted happened, but also, they had to leave it. I think at that part, the cards are talking about India.

Did J and P have more sexual encounters?

Yes. I can’t know about how many times, but I found interesting, that the cards are telling me about a particular time.

What the cards are telling me at the beginning, is the desire that they felt, a desire that had to be controlled, no matter how much love they felt. I think one of them was very eager to have something, even very sure that he wanted it, but the other part told him that he needed to think more about these things, “you need to remember what we are/ we are just bandmates”, so the other part “regretted it”. It had to pass some time until another proposal came. I don’t know If it was the same person, but this time, the answer was something like “I don’t know about it, what is she going to say?”, but after some time agreed. They had their good time, but immediately overthought about the moment. The one of the proposal thought that this would fix everything, but It didn’t. So he felt like a fool, while the other thought that now HE had the power.

The one that did the proposal felt very depressed, because even when he liked what it happened, he also felt love for him. When this happened, the one that did the proposal decided to work on himself. Be happy (without him).

___

Others

What did John expect from Paul in India?

I think what John expected of Paul in India was some prove that this was actually “something”. What I mean is, that at the beginning of this trip, John have actually reflected about their relationship, and was very sure about what he felt. John thought a lot of how to talk to Paul about this. The thing is, the answer that he received wasn’t what he expected at all. He really thought that this trip would mean a new beginning.

What did Paul think that happened between him and John in India?

I think when John told him what he thought, Paul felt he received what he always wanted. But at the same time, it made him very unhappy. I think it has to be because of the (ALLEGED) internal homophobia that he felt, but it was very hard to say something, even when he felt the same. So he almost acted like nothing happened, but really tried to get any chance he could to be with John. Worst was when they did have a very good time, but he couldn’t say anything. He thought that, maybe being this close physically would be enough for John, but it wasn’t . He noticed that John was “weird”, but didn’t confront him about it. Paul felt miserable, because John didn’t seem to be interested anymore.

What did Paul think that would happen between him and John in India?

I forgot to take a picture here…sorry!

I think Paul just expected to renew the relationship, in a way that everything would be good. The current state of the relationship for him was difficult, but he didn’t know how to act. It was like everytime he tried to do something, he couldn’t. And when he tried, it was shit. So yeah, I don’t think Paul even expected what would happen 🥲.

How did Paul feel when John told him that he loved him?

I think at first, Paul thought that this was some kind of a cruel joke from the destiny. Because he liked what he experienced. But didn’t know what to do about it. He surely knew that he would never forget it.

In his mind was the happiness of knowing that he was loved, but also, didn’t act on it, since he knew he had to think about anything else. There was some promises he made, some rules to follow, things that would made his life “happier” and “easier”, but I also think there was fear, lots of fear to start something new, something so delicate and pure. I think he knew that this would be very difficult, and them, even when they could love each other so much, would never “normally” work. It would never be enough. But that doesn’t mean that he wouldn’t try to do something, the thing is, it seems that was too late.

_________

I hope you like this one. I really tried to do it more “real”, even when a lot of these interpretations match with theories. I found it fascinating.

Thank you very much for your support ❤️

[ram-on]

whenyourbirdisbroken asked:

Hi ram-on! Thanks for your tags on that fic rec for Carry That Weight, I've never read that fic but your tags made it sound very interesting! What are other McLennon fics you like, if you don't mind sharing?

Hello there, @whenyourbirdisbroken! Thank you for my very first Beatles related ask and sorry for the late reply!! I discovered fanfiction through the Beatles fandom, I had never read fanfic before! But I'm still too bad at bookmarking things, so I'll certainly forget some I loved. Still, here's a list of those I can remember now:

Carry That Weight and its sequence Hello Goodbye by @waveofahand It's a massive work by a massive talent and it has a very special place in my heart. @idontwanttospoiltheparty described it very well in their recent post about it, and I added a bit of my commentary in the tags. Don't worry about the length, you don't have to read the two parts to enjoy it, but also if you start from the beginning and it's your cup of tea you may soon discover you never want it to end!

 Mums, Yur Boys are Crying by waveofahand. If you love hurt/comfort, this fic includes both John and Paul suffering - John's mom dying and Paul helping him go trhough the funeral, etc, and then Paul himself getting into another situation, and John worrying about him too. The boys are young but there's kindness, maturity and wisdom in it and the typical picturesque, novel-like features of waveofhand's prose. A special bonus are the very charming scenes between Mimi and Paul which may colour your perception of the interactions between those two forever (I always expect them to act like that in other fics). It's also a delightfully finished fic, it has a beautiful ending and conclusion.

Everything by merseydreams . As you may notice, I'm mostly a fan of drama and angst, but @merseydreams are my favorite exception. They're a comedy genius, their fics are romantic, charming, witty, very vivid and enjoyable both on story-buld level and micro-sentence level. I've often told them they should write scripts for sitcoms and romantic comedies/dramedies and other good things. Also good thoughtful characterization, relationship study-ing and dialogue too (so there's seriousness in them too! They're ultimately happy but not fluffy.). I love all their fics but I guess The Birthday Party is the best by being the longest, if you somehow missed it go read it ASAP! 

i was a younger man then (now) (post hoc)  by fingersfallingupwards.  This fic is so touching, that I don't know how to describe it. It's a very poetic, imaginative and unique story about John&Paul-forever and time travel. About the connection of their souls in a fantastical but poignant sense that somehow fits them so much. Might make you cry but it's worth it. Also, completely finished fic as well, with a thrilling emotional twist towards the end. Might be the most complete fic I've read. The fic also provide very good context for the flaming pie anecdote :-)

On our way back home by Kathleenishereagain. This one is also about time travel, but in a different way, basically about old Paul getting back to being young again and how he'd do things differently. I think it's quite popular so you probably all know it. (Funny thing is I never thought I'd care about time travel, but ultimately it's just a writing vessel and aren't we always time travelling when we fantasise about the Beatles?) 

Close The Door Lightly When You Go by RosalindBeatrice. Set in 1979 when Paul comes to visit John in the Dacota, who acts like he doesn't want him there. It's awesome, one of those fics, in which they have real tension and problems which makes it all more real. It's mostly inner-thoughs and dialogue-driven but very intense nontheless, great characterisation, great attention to detail, just fantastic for lovers of post break up relationship studies and excellent writing.

The Wild Horses trilogy, from which I especially love the last part, Son of a Shining Path. It's about young Paul and John and Paul being abused by his father, and the first part might be a bit too dark for some. But I love the writing, and especially in the third part (which has no abuse but other suffering) I just love how well being worried about someone you love and being unable to show it is written in the end there. It's subtle, very realistic in its details, I love it.

I'm Looking Through You by @idontwanttospoiltheparty That's the only fic in this list which is still a work in progress, still updated. If you follow the author on Tumblr you know how smart they are, and their fic is just as thoughtful and attentive to the Beatles history, the music and the psychology of it all. The story gets more exciting and rich whith each chapter, I fell in love with the last three. It also pays attention to all four of the Beatles and their human sides and motivations in a way that rarely happens. Last chapter included the best incorporation of the Manila adventures I've read in fic. Just many emotionally packed and thrilling scenes all around (also that thing I just wrote about being worried about someone and being frozen about how to help them which I love being written realistically in fics -- is here too.) Go read it if you haven't and let's read the next update soon together!!

Widow by abromeds on LJ. This story is more than a decade old, but it's no wonder it still appears in fic recs. It's about death and grief - not John but Paul dying like John did - so it's truly dark, not like fun angsty, but truly deeply dramatic and real. So you might think why read something sad, but maybe you should, because it's so good. It's also serious writing on meaningful topic and I think the fictional element (Paul dying and not John) somehow helps it being more bearable and at the same time makes you think about the actual reality and we kinda avoid doing it, don't we? And it's just very well written, there are also very plausible-sounding flashbacks of their history and relationship through the years (the one about why John actually climbed the fence in Cavendish is my favorite!), so it's not really all about death. And my absolutely favorite thing in ''Widow'' is the very ending, the last sentence even. It's the most perfect, most poignant ending this story could have had, an ending any good fuckin literature could have. Sometimes I walk on the streets and think about that ending. 

-------------------

This fic rec is got too wordy, so I'll end this here, although there are other fics I've enjoyed just as much, but I'll add them some other time!

Always feel free to recommend me some fics too (or to share your thoughts on the already mentioned!)

[idontwanttospoiltheparty]

what is your mclennon take

All righty then, feel like I haven't been asked this in two years.

(throwback to @phoneybeatlemania asking me this on anon on like day two of my having this blog <3)

I wanna preface this by saying I'm hyper-aware that multiple takes more or less fit the facts. I'm often reading up on what people who disagree with me are saying and try to consider their arguments as seriously as I can. Because of this, I don't feel entirely confident committing to one single take; more, a spectrum of scenarios I find more or less plausible.

(putting this under a read more cause I'm annoying lol)

At this point you can't really convince me John wasn't bi; the evidence is ample and IMO conclusive. Combining that with things John said after the breakup, some of his behaviours and words while the band was together makes him being attracted to Paul seem very likely to me, and I generally operate under that assumption though I do try to sometimes consider other possibilities.

Generally, I don't really buy into the idea that Paul is (meaningfully) attracted to men for two reasons: 1) he's denied it + continues to do so, and I dislike going against someone's word without good reason and 2) all the evidence I've seen for it feels very… Circumstantial. It seems more like a post-hoc explanation for a bunch of not necessarily related behaviours rather than concrete proof. (for example comparing when Paul started growing a beard to when he and Linda got together and concluding a general "return to the safety of heteronormativity" in mid-'68 based on that)

That being said, that doesn't mean I think Paul couldn't possibly be bi and I do see how the fact that he's still alive means that anecdotes like the ones we have of John confirming his consistent interest in men would not have emerged as easily and readily as they did once John died. (and conversely, Paul has outlived most Beatle-era people; I doubt much will come out from that time period at all in the near future, unless his kids decide to share things, but loyalty appears to be the currency of the McCartney Clan so…)

And also, I've seen this implied multiple times so let me reiterate: thinking Paul is not attracted to John is not equivalent to thinking Paul had an in any sense normal friendship with John. I believe that, no matter what, John was important to Paul to a probably slightly unhealthy extent and I don't discount that he's referred to John as some type of soulmate.

Now, timeline-wise, I consider myself somewhat of an outlier in that I'm highly skeptical of the idea that John was attracted to Paul from the moment they met (and, for that matter, if proof of Paul's attraction to men emerged, this skepticism would extend to him as well). But I also don't have some timeline I'm personally subscribed to because I think the evidence on this front is convoluted and somewhat contradictory. I'd say it mostly indicates to me that either a) John experienced multiple waves of infatuation which ebbed and flowed over the years or b) he was somewhat possessive of Paul before he was actually attracted to him. (or a combination of these two) Another thing I don't feel particularly confident about is at what point this attraction would have become conscious (and I err on the side of not believing an unconscious attraction could have lasted especially long)

I usually try to approach them holistically as people and when I can leave the romantic/sexual stuff unaddressed because I think a lot of aspects of their relationship can be analysed regardless of the precise nature of their dynamic. On the other hand, I do acknowledge that both these men were very sex/love-oriented and thus I can't discount it completely.

[johns-prince]

hi there! first of all, thank you for your blog!! it's really nice and idk, all those things you share with followers allow to have a better look at john and paul and their minds, which is precious! well, recently i've been searching for some discourse but failed to- so, it would be lovely to hear your opinion: a) does while my guitar gently weeps can be counted as an official™ mclennon song? ie to what extent it's a just frustrated song and to what - if any - it's about john and paul b) do you think george ever knew/suspected abt some shit between them? thank you in advance! and have a nice day/night 🤍

Hey! You're too sweet!

I dunno if my nonsensical ramblings about the Two Fools is very perceptive of their minds... But I'm glad some of it gets y'all thinkin'.

To try and answer your questions... I have heard and seen the theory that the Beatles/George's song ''While my Guitar Gently Weeps'' is somehow or somewhat relating to the relationship John and Paul shared. Unfortunately, I'm not one of those fans/mclennoners who truly believes that the song was written with John and Paul in mind.

This song was, apparently, written during the spring of 1968, which we know is when the boys all went out to India to "find themselves" or what have you. We all have an idea what went down in India, or what didn't, at least between John and Paul while they'd holed up and shared a room together there for a good portion of the time.

We know how the trip ended, and how the rest of 1969 turned out as it led into 1969, the beginning of the end.

I'm not too knowledgeable about the reasoning behind the song that George has given, other than I know it was definitely influenced by their time over in India, and George's ever developing spiritualism.

At the time, George's ever growing frustration that John and Paul weren't taking his songwriting abilities seriously were also coming to a head.

In fact, why there may be the theory that ''While my Guitar Gently Weeps'' is considered a lowkey quote-unquote McLennonTM song is because of the fact that George was expressing open frustration towards The Beatles, but specifically John and Paul, and the relationship he expressly believed he had been barred from--that is, their collaborative relationship and partnership. George always felt left out by John and Paul, even though there's examples of the two trying to make attempts in recognizing George's talent and abilities throughout the years. That, and if you do listen to the lyrics with McLennon on the mind, the song does sound like it could be about John and Paul's relationship (and the Beatles relationship as a band as a whole) from George's perspective.

I don't think I'm making sense but to answer your second question might just bring it all together my thought process here, so stick with me!

I believe that George had an inkling, a suspicion, of the kind of relationship John and Paul had, but did not have a complete understanding of it, or simply did not want to have a complete and unfettered understanding of the depths that John and Paul's relationship transcended. I do think George was envious of the collabortive relationship between John and Paul, and always felt like the odd one out, or the one left to "play marbles" with Ringo, while it was often just John and Paul, running off and writing music together.

Sure, George was Paul's first friend and best friend as kids, playing guitars first together, growing up like brothers, but it was John that took Paul's confidante and partner. Sure, George at some point, sort of idolized John in that "he's older and cooler" type of way, y'know George and John buddies and pals, and often times clearly wanted John's approval and to be treated as an equal collaborator to John as Paul is, but he wasn't, and he couldn't be, simply because George wasn't Paul. Even when John was on his whole "I hate the Beatles I hate Paul" tirade after the divorce, and George was totally on John's side of it... No matter, George could not get the same treatment or placement beside John as the likes that Paul had held, and still held, all that time.

“George did have a slight inferiority complex, although nothing serious. Cyn remembers him always hanging around when she wanted John on his own. So does Astrid, when she was trying to be alone with Stu.”

— On George Harrison’s youth, The Beatles: The Only Ever Authorised Biography by Hunter Davies [x]

I believe George was definitely aware of the dynamics in the band, and very aware of John and Paul's relationship and partnership. To what extent in the relationship part... I couldn't say. Though, I do think George knew something was up, especially as the years went on...

HADDAD: Then, your musical ambitions didn’t really begin to take form until the two of you joined with John Lennon? GEORGE: Paul and John were the spark that ignited The Beatles. Of course, we weren’t The Beatles then, and we didn’t have Ringo, but that was the start. The air was filled with excitement, and even though we went through silly names like The Quarrymen Skiffle Group, The Moondogs, The Moonshiners, and The Silver Beatles, before evolving into that group everyone grew to know and love, the crucible was in 1967 [sic; 1957] when John and Paul became a duo.”

— George Harrison, interview w/ M. George Haddad for Men Only. (November, 1978) [x]

“I think everybody was in love with everybody else permanently during the Sixties, you know. I would have been surprised if any of our friends had not all been in love with each other. You know, there’s sex and there’s love. And I think the Sixties period, there was a genuine love for mankind, generally. I’m very liberal, actually, very liberal person. “

— George Harrison, radio interview excerpt [x]

Simply put, I personally don't believe ''As my Guitar Gently Weeps'' is about John and Paul's relationship, at least not directly, and if it was influenced by them, I would say it would have been an amalgamation of frustration from George's point of view towards his relationship with the Beatles, and with John and Paul's odd and exclusive relationship and partnership.

I do think George suspected something going on with John and Paul, between John and Paul, but to the extent that he was privy too? I couldn't say. George was aware of them though, especially if he truly believed that John and Paul officially became a duo in 1967 (which is THE peak McLennon year, fyi) so he wasn't oblivious.

[mclennonlgbt]

Hello! What can you find here? (ANTHOLOGY)

My thoughts on Lennon/McCartney a.k.a. McLennon They surely loved each other (and they did write plenty of songs for each other; for example, Paul reacted to John's rejection with songs) We can see their affection on plenty of photos and videos On the other hand, their relationship was slightly toxic But what was going between them? I'm sure John was attracted and/or in love with Paul (check this qoute as well!). How does Paul feel about it?

He was and is lovely obsessed with John Anyway, I explained my take here briefly Deep dive: Maybe he reciprocated John's romantic feelings? (John tried to told us something about it) If so, that's nothing weird about it And nothing weird that Yoko felt discomfort What's interesting, Linda seemed to be okay with it

Maybe he didn't have a label for his love?

Or maybe he just didn't (and don't) care about labels, or don't distinguish between them (which would be connected with his alleged neurodiversity)?

However, we can all agree that queerness was there (see my cinematic masterpiece)

Even if people is unwilling to reveal the whole picture (which is valid)

See this lol

Other related posts

Paul McCartney's urge to say he was sharing a bed with John Lennon What kind of future did John want for Paul and himself? I discuss McLennon's oppontents arguments

2nd part

John and Paul mirroring each other's decisions

Real Love is for Paul Films that didn't hide John's queerness

Me casually thinking about Paul's orientation

Here are my favourite McLennon media/sources

Here I wonder why Paul always deny that John was into men

My top 3 McLennon years - ranking

Queerness in the "Birth of the Beatles" (1979) - a clip

Paul was sending massages to John on every 1970s album

Did Elton John suspect McLennon?

List of neurodivergent Beatles songs

List of Paul songs inspired by music hall genre Me and my friend made Lennon/McCartney Valentine cards

My McLennon memes

Jan Peszek vs McLennon

McLennon saga in Polish

My favorite musicians

Physical, queer intimacy between 60s and 70s rockstars

McLennon vs Madison Square Garden

John and Paul being protective of each other

John and Paul commenting on each other's appearance

Paris in John and Paul's life

McLennon and "I know" thing

Has Paul been dreaming about John since 1970s? My thoughts on songs, albums and concerts Sgt. Pepper's Walls and Bridges Doctor Robert Oh! Darling (jam) With a Little Luck NME concert Yesterday A Case of You Hello, Goodbye Ballroom Dancing Arrow Through Me Other users' interpretations of Two of us The Happy Rishikesh Song Too many people Hold Me Tight/Lazy Dynamite/Hands of Love/Power Cut Riding to Vanity Fair Silly Love Songs (Just Like) Starting Over Rough Ride If I Fell (with @dykefaggotry)

[saint-mona]

Just some random questions you can ignore or answer if you feel like it.

I'm just a shy follower and a Lennon girl fan but been on board on the McLennon ship for a long while, and still such a Beatle baby knowing how old of a fandom this is. But how long has it existed for? The McLennon tag. It seems like in 2013 something happend that made this fandom grow around then?. Along with internet showing more photographs how sort of obvious it was. Or because Yoko outed John as bisexual? What was said about it before she outed him? I know Paul was asked about it in the 80's and he ruled it out but was there but has he changed a bit in interviews? I seem to think he has.

Hello Anon,

I'm not sure how long ago I got this message, so I apologize for the delay.

Personally, I'm quite old (fandom) but even I didn't fall into the 'McLennon' category until about 2017. I have been a Beatles fan since I watched the Anthology in 1996 on ABC.

I even had a LiveJournal account in the early 2000s, but never explored fandoms or fanfics for that matter. Honestly, in 2017 I started searching some Beatles site ex. 'Hey Dullblog/ The Beatles Bible' and stumbled upon Tumblr by accident. After finding it, all the wonderful Beatles memories came back after my long hiatus and I was hooked.

You see, I was a die hard before the internet and have physical scrapbooks and books about the boys. Having an internet of resources and archives was like discovering them all over again.

"The olden days" as the kids call it, were a different kind of fandom. I have mutuals who were Dakota scruffs in the late 70s and have actually met John & Yoko. My first Macca concert was 89' in Ames, Iowa. Any scrap of paper or photo was gold when I was an early fan.

Since discovering Tumblr, I can't say what changed. All I know is it waxes and wanes. I've seen people come and go, but a few of us stay. (I'm not on other social media platforms except this and Instagram)

Lately there has been a lot to celebrate as a Beatles fan: Now & Then, Get Back, Eyes of the Storm, etc....but I truly think when Yoko passes away the Lennon Estate has other plans and there will be EVEN MORE McLennon related releases for us to feast on!

Take care my friend, feel free to message me anytime.

[waveofahand]

John Has a Bride Vibe...

I’m changing the title of this because it better articulates what I feel like I’m seeing here...because John has never looked more beautiful or more besotted to me, in this picture. He really reminds me of a bride on her honeymoon, just floating around in a puddle of love and “He loves me!” goo.  

In the close up it seriously looks like a honeymoon picture.

I don’t know who the guy sitting with the boys are, possibly an EMI official? He looks like he could be related to George Martin. But hooboy, look at John Lennon and the scarf. And the hair. He looks beautiful... maybe too beautiful! 

And of course, look at Paul beside him, almost as though they’re their own little unit. The nation of two. They almost look like they’re shopped in from another picture (although they are not). Very cute, very sweet. Very McLennon? Whatever. They just look very happy, and very naturally so, just being together.

I am still on the fence about whether their relationship ever was physical. They clearly loved one another and were soulmates but whether it went farther than that will (probably forever) be the stuff of fanfics. But I look at that pic, and how comfortable and chill they are together and how (even with their bandmates right there, with them) they seem like they are their own singular sort of energy, and I can’t help but marvel. 

I also can’t help but think that, for all people bang on about Paul’s features being “girly” it’s JOHN who (to me) has always given off a more sensitive, feminine energy (which is no bad thing) and Paul who has always given off the  rowdier, more masculine energy. Which perhaps is why they complemented each other so well.  Whatever. What I get from this pic is strong “bridal vibes” as though a bride has just been well seen to by a groom. 

[bambi-kinos]

@drusillamclennon Ah, that’s a good point. I’m a bit of a dumbass frankly so a lot of John’s wordplay just goes over my head. I also don’t know very much about the Stones and the Beatles though I do know that the two bands were close friends for years.

Re: John always coming second in their public relationship, yes. Actually I’ll repost what I wrote back in February in the McLennon server because I still think this is true:

Leggy Maddingway — 02/25/2022 more than that: Paul never acknowledged that he was worth fighting for on his own terms.

as in himself.

like I think about that trepanning conversation a lot -- I think Paul's decision to demure was the right one in the moment but he never followed up on it to go "yeah, that's not okay John." and he should have.

Leggy Maddingway — 02/25/2022 that indicates a fundamental insecurity in his relationship with John and a lack of self respect, that he was willing to let John degrade and terrorize him with a serious suggestion for all of them to be trepanned and then he never followed up with a "that is not okay and you know better" conversation.

Leggy Maddingway — 02/25/2022 To be fair to Paul, he was intimidated because John was so volatile and I can imagine he was scared of upsetting John to the point that John called it quits with him. But it's another tragic case of Paul's (relatable, and understandable) POV betraying how his own fear of abandonment distorted his interpretation of events. Even during their separation in the 70s John never truly left Paul. I don't believe that Paul would have lost John for a significant amount of time if he had shown John his belly, as it were.

But Paul didn't, doesn't, know that. He's still afraid of John getting tired or disgusted or disillusioned with him.

Leggy Maddingway — 02/25/2022 It's been said before so I won't harp on it too much but, adolescent dynamics, too much fame, flash frozen, etc. It's a dynamic that makes sense when you're teenagers and you really want to impress your boyfriend but you're also unsure if he'll take you seriously or if he'll get mad and walk. I had similar feelings at...14.

John and Paul as a committed couple was always going to be a hard road no matter how much they loved each other. My personal feeling, based on nothing but my gut instinct, is that John disqualified himself as a good partner in Paul’s eyes because he was a flaky father to Julian. Paul takes that kind of thing seriously. So if John hadn’t gotten Cynthia pregnant -- or if he had simply been more present for Julian -- Paul would have been more willing to commit to John romantically. However the fact that John was inconsistent with Julian and Cynthia (though it is clear that he did love them sincerely!) as well as being emotionally volatile and highly reactive, made the decision for Paul. The heroin addiction just tied the knot on the whole thing. No matter how much he loved John, Paul did not want to be treated like Cynthia and didn’t want to put potential children with John through the same situation Julian had to live with. So he tried to have it both ways.

And then John proved Paul correct when he got addicted to heroin, hooked up with Yoko, turned the Beatles break up into a circus, and then put Paul on blast which permanently rifted their relationship. Horrible to go through but I imagine that even while he was going through it, Paul was relieved to not be responsible for John anymore and probably felt vindicated in his choices. His relationship with Linda wasn’t perfect but he didn’t have to feel intimidated or terrorized by her.

Now my perspective on this is that Paul committing to John would have stabilized him. I think John would have had hope for the future and a relationship with Paul would have been a lifeline for him. I think they would still have gone through very tough times with substance abuse and fame issues but they could have navigated through it together so long as they were honest and trusted each other.

They had a deep friendship before it all went to shit. John’s volatility was really just volatility and wasn’t his true self. He was just kind of like that and Paul did in fact know that.  Paul should have realized that he could trust John with his worries and concerns and that their friendship could withstand heat. But even at their peak Paul was scared of losing John and thought that John would eventually get tired of him or become disgusted with him or just bored with him.

That became a self fulfilling prophecy, sadly. If Paul had committed to John and simply been honest about his fears, then I think they would have made it -- after all, they needed each other like mad.

But otoh, John’s issues were well documented even at the time and Paul was not wrong for hesitating to walk into them. He didn’t want to be treated like Cynthia and John treated Cynthia very badly. It’s not crazy that Paul was scared of tearing down his own projected image of heterosexuality (during the time when gay people were still being hunted and persecuted by the law) when it could go to hell so easily.

And John, well. If you’re right about And Your Bird Can Sing about wanting Paul to leave Jane and be with him (and I think you are, you’ve changed my mind on it) then he could see what he needed to do but he wasn’t willing to go through with the changes he needed to perform in order to make himself an attractive partner for someone like Paul McCartney, who puts the well being of kids first. 

It’s all just such a boon doggle.

Sorry for the essay, your reply just got me thinking.

[asteracaea]

very very interesting article

Last month, in the heat of the Nicki Minaj and Megan Thee Stallion beef, TMZ reported that the cemetery where Megan’s mother Holly Thomas is buried had to bolster security after the location was doxxed on social media by one of Nicki’s fans, collectively known as “Barbz.” Nicki had nothing to do with the threat, but the brazenness was nonetheless regarded as a low point for stan culture and led many to ponder if that depth of celebrity stan-dom was a mental illness in itself.

Stan culture is a matter of obsessive fandom: fans crying over Playboi Carti snippets, streaming Nicki’s songs to the top of the charts as they sleep, and compulsively purchasing whatever Ye or Travis Scott put up for sale. But the rise of social media has also given music fans a digital battlefield to defend their favorite artists. People who criticize many of today’s biggest acts run the risk of being doxxed and harassed, displaying behavior that can’t simply be attributed to the quality of someone’s music.

Stan culture, the pop culture manifestation of parasocial behavior, isn’t new. Eminem’s “Stan,” about a homicidally obsessive fan came out in 2000. But, notably, Eminem didn’t mention the internet once in the song. Live streaming has given fans more access than ever to artists who routinely go on sites like Instagram Live and Twitch to engage their fans. Artists like Tee Grizzley have GTA servers where they run amok of the GTA universe with their supporters. Artists like Kenny Beats and former Brockhampton member Don Mclennon run Discord servers where they interact with fans and share music-making insights. These kinds of interactions bolster an artist from a poster on a fan’s wall to someone they could conceivably interact with, strengthening the parasocial bond.

That dynamic also occurs on X, where Nicki Minaj’s Barbz celebrate having their tweets liked and quote-tweeted by the Queens rapper. That’s especially true in the heat of discourse surrounding Megan’s ”Hiss” and Nicki’s “Big Foot” records, where her most ardent supporters vied to prove that they’re wartime stans. These frenzied interactions have become so prevalent that some stans might become public figures in their own right in the upcoming documentary film Stans, about superfans and appropriately executive produced by Eminem.

Professors Sally Theran and Azadeh Aalai tell Rolling Stone that studies are still being done on the intersection of obsessive fandom, social media, and music. Theran is a Professor of Psychology at Wellesley College and a licensed clinical psychologist. She says that parasocial relationships are one-sided, and take place in the imagination of a fan of a public figure. “You might have imaginary conversations with [your fave] in your head,” she says. “You might imagine what kind of advice they would give. You might imagine what it would be like to have them as a friend.”

Parasocial relationships aren’t inherently bad. In 2009, author and then-Arizona State University professor Jimmy Sanderson released a study of activity on boy band New Kids On The Block’s official website that explored the “relational maintenance” between the group and their fans. The study showed that “audience members shared how NKOTB had shaped their moral character as well as NKOTB had served as a crucial support mechanism for them during difficult experiences they had endured during their lifetime.” Though Donald Glover’s Swarm showcased the horrific downside of a fan obsessing over an artist loosely based on Beyonce, Theran says that Queen B is a similarly positive figure for her fanbase. “She’s so self-actualized. She’s such a powerhouse. She has created everything that she has accomplished,” Theran says. “You can imagine if you’re a 14-year-old if you think about who you want to be and then you start to internalize some of Beyonce’s characteristics, that could be really helpful and powerful.”

Azadeh Aalai is an author, associate psychology professor at Queensborough Community College, and an adjunct psychology professor at NYU. She says that the figures most likely to draw parasocial relationships are adroit at stimulating a sense of connection with fans. Aalai credits Taylor Swift’s intimate lyrics with stirring a “strong and loyal fanbase.” She also notes that the lack of “polish” in Britney Spears’ social media presence “elevates their perception that she’s being very authentic and that creates the sense that they really know her, and that can elevate that emotional attachment that you develop. That’s one of the hallmark properties of developing a larger parasocial relationship.”

The people most susceptible to parasocial relationships are typically younger (and more impressionable), and/or have a dearth of personal relationships. Both professors say that the isolation of COVID-19 quarantine intensified parasocial behavior in ways that researchers are still parsing. “Social media use, and more generally, our use of technology did increase, especially in the beginning phases of the pandemic when people were largely socially distancing and things like that. So that could have kind of heightened this intensity of the connection,” says. Theran adds that, “a lot of people look to public figures for connection if they’re lonely or feel more isolated. It can be really helpful for them to have that kind of imaginary relationship [where] they get some of their needs met. It can’t substitute for a real relationship in person, but it can be, I would think of as supplemental.”

Is the cure to male loneliness obsessive stan-dom? Probably not, but some people are clinging to whatever will get them by in a post-quarantine isolation epidemic. Many people secluded themselves during the COVID-19 quarantine and never re-adjusted to the outside world — and some can’t for health reasons. A recent Atlantic story explored how people are replacing real-life interactions with more screen time. Streamers, Tiktokers, and podcasters aren’t the industry’s rising forces for no reason; they’re benefitting from a generation of people spending an alarming amount of time alone. New York Mayor Eric Adams is attempting to sue social media companies for conceivably “fueling the nationwide youth mental health crisis.”

So, will there be an official diagnosis to address obsessive fandom in the next DSM, the standard mental illness index used by American mental health professionals? Both professors say that the studies are still too early to say.

“I could see something along the lines of obsessive-compulsive disorder being in the DSM as a provisional diagnosis, which is kind of where most diagnoses start,” Theran says. “So for example, binge eating disorder is now a diagnosis in the DSM, but before this, it was provisional. I do think there’s a difference between your average person who’s super engaged with a media figure, and then someone else who takes it to extremes. What we look for is a pattern of behavior that’s disruptive or interfering with your quality of life. And for most people with parasocial interactions, it’s not interfering with their life.”

“I don’t anticipate anything like that anytime soon being in the DSM,” Aalai says. “There would have to be a lot of research to justify something like that. To the extent that you would be pathologizing or identifying a specific disorder related to that. I still think that’s going to be more on the fringes in terms of problematic parasocial relationships. I don’t think the parasocial relationship on its own is going to trigger negative things, unless you’re talking about a really, really problematic public figure.”

Theran says that the prevalence of Instagram and Twitter has increased the perception of access to public figures. “It’s very challenging for people to disentangle themselves from their favorite celebrity’s social media, and to recognize that often it’s run by a professional,” she says. “It’s not actually the person that they’re interested in engaging with them.” But, sometimes it is an artist posting on their account, and the interactivity of an Instagram Live or Twitter Q&A has only intensified the parasocial dynamic.

Aalai says that social media, especially X, created a community for people in parasocial relationships with the same public figures. “The parasocial relationship is between the user and the public figure, but it could further be reinforced or expanded by the larger community that are also fans of that same person,” Aalai says. That’s not always a bad thing; it can be beneficial for people experiencing loneliness to meet like-minded people who are fans of the same artist. And those fans banding together to raise awareness about their faves’ releases is a positive. But when stans are defending the figures they appreciate, they can treat their timelines like digital war zones.

Nowadays, rap beef isn’t just about artists at odds, it’s about dueling fanbases, which we’ve seen in battles between Nicki and Cardi B, Drake and Kanye, and others that dominate X timeliness and Subreddits. Recently, a Taylor Swift fan declared a “Swiftie Emergency” and urged fellow stans to stream Beyonce’s “Texas Hold Em” to keep supposed Swift nemesis Kanye West from having a Billboard No.1. Kanye had to address the fuss in a since-deleted Instagram post, telling Swifties “I am not your enemy, ummm, I’m not your friend either, though, LOL.”

Aalai says the worst examples of parasocial relationships manifest from fans who have what she calls “underlying vulnerabilities.” On the extreme end, she references former President Donald Trump inciting his supporters to storm the Capitol on Jan. 6th, 2021. She also references fans of Kurt Cobain who died by suicide in the same manner as him in 1994. “The majority of Nirvana fans aren’t doing that,” she says. “That’s a very specific segment of his followers that are already emotionally unstable that are going to be compelled to engage in that kind of copycat behavior.”

There are less dire, but still troubling, examples in the entertainment world. The Barbz are infamous for harassing rival artists and doxxing those who criticize the legendary rapper. Last November, she took to her Instagram Story to tell her fans: “Dear Barbz, be sure to never threaten anyone on my behalf, whether on the internet or in person. Whether in jest or not. I don’t [and] never have condoned that.”

Aalai notes that “a lot of times you find that [the problematic behavior is] not necessarily being directly encouraged by the public figure themselves. It could just be fan bases taking it upon themselves to engage in those behaviors, and maybe even to use their fandom as a cover for more problematic or antisocial kind of behaviors.” She says “You could make the argument though that a lot of these kinds of behaviors are being normalized on social media platforms,” citing male fans of artists who harass women accusing their male fave of violence. But, she says, it’s just hard to draw conclusions because I don’t know if we have the research yet to back up those specific anecdotes.”

Both professors agree that parasocial relationships aren’t inherently problematic, and can have benefits depending on who the figure is that’s being idolized. But they slightly differ on how to characterize the extreme fan willing to dox and harass on behalf of their fave. Theran says, “This group of people are pretty much a separate category from people who invest in parasocial relationships.” Aalai says that it’s essentially a corrupted version of parasocial behavior fueled by underlying issues: “I would say the concern about it becoming overly obsessive or problematic would probably also be accompanied by underlying vulnerabilities for mental illnesses and things like that.”

Parasocial relationships, violent stan-dom, and the attention-seeking nature of social media are amalgamating to make music fandom a minefield. Beef between artists turns into social media pissing contests between fanbases. Anyone levying a legitimate critique of an artist is ripe to be harassed. That’s why Theran says that public figures should be responsible about how they engage and galvanize their stans, citing Taylor Swift telling her fans not to harass her exes.

“I think having this kind of fandom is incredibly powerful, and it’s up to the individual how they build that power,” she says. “I think history will reflect poorly on those who weaponize it in a destructive way.”

[eloeloanna]

Did McLennon ever happened?

I did it for entertainment purposes (don’t sue me, Paul (or Yoko (or Sean).

-

Another readings: What John thought about Paul here What Paul thought about John - part 1 here | part 2 here What happened between John and Paul in Paris here What John thought of Paul's appeareance here What Paul thought of John's appeareance here John's feelings + In my life + Paris' tea here Paul's feelings + Paris' tea here Was Paul jealous of Stuart? here Was John jealous of Tara? here Was Paul jealous of Cynthia? here Relationship - questions related to that topic here What happened between John and Paul in Keywest here What happened between John and Paul in India here George's pov here MORE here

-

The answer:

The feeling started from the beginning, but it was that sort of feeling when you know that you want something, but it’s wrong. So you left it - you let it cold, but at the same time you feel regret, because it makes you feel good - you start to dream, to see beautiful things. Fighting against this was horrible, but it was “better” to stay that way. They were “happy”.

BUT one of them or, just them made something (I can’t say what exactly 😂), that changed the whole dynamic, it was a decisive moment of happiness but after it, it went to hell. One of them or both felt extremely guilty of this move.

I would say one of them didn’t care that much because HE WENT hard after the other, he risked a lot, and had a strength to face whatever would happen. He wanted A LOT from the other, but it just didn’t happen. About this, he didn’t know what to do, and even perceived that the other was just giving him crumbles. So he decided to leave it. He knew that this would change everything, and at the same time he knew nothing. He also enjoyed it a little bit. In this part of the story I could see this person very trapped, trying to move on but not really accomplishing that. Also, lying to himself that he was VERY happy.

I end here because I don’t have more cards, but the end of this story is that the other part reach out, but the one that pursued first wasn’t very sure of how to react, because he thought that the other part was doing it as a “favor”.

I repeat this is all for ENTERTAINMENT 😂.

If you have any questions I will try to answer 😂.

Also, sorry for my English - not my first language 😂

[jeremy-hillary-boob]

in retrospect I'm kind of fascinated by the way michael lindsay-hogg misunderstood the beatles while making this mess. like yes, he's the most punchable person on screen at any given time; whenever he opens his mouth he says something that feels custom-designed to slam into their most specific and deeply-held insecurities, and his ego ensures that he doesn't listen to them at all. but the nature of his failure is so perfectly representative of what's always wrong with public perceptions of the beatles, and it's so interesting when you remember that he is also the director of some classic uhh... mclennon fanfiction, I guess? that's not exactly right, but I don't know how else to characterize the movie "two of us," which was made in 2000 and is frankly the only beatles biopic I've ever really liked. the fact that this smarmy kid who missed the point so hard while making "let it be" managed to nail it while directing this fix-it fic later is enthralling, honestly.

because the problem that he keeps running into is a question of scale and what it is that makes the beatles good. he's very invested in this concept of having them out in an ancient amphitheater in the desert and doing these sweeping overhead shots with a giant audience. he's so married to this idea that he ignores the band repeatedly telling him that they aren't willing to do that, because they won't travel and aren't all that comfortable with a big audience in the first place. it's not even that he keeps pushing for this because they're saying no without offering an alternative; the boys suggest perfectly good concepts, but a lot of things the they ask for are small. they want to do a show in a club, or a dance hall, or the studio. they keep telling him they want close and intimate, and he keeps saying no, we need Huge and Sweeping and Universal!

related to this, probably the moment that most makes me want to yell "fuck you" at the screen is when linda offers an opinion and says, "I'm speaking as a fan!" and MLH snottily replies that he is also a fan, and a bigger fan than she is. it's mostly an annoying comment because of how breathtakingly patronizing and self-important it is. but the underlying insinuation is that he Gets It in a way she does not - his feelings are the justified worship of the larger-than-life music gods, while hers are supposedly just piddly little personal affection for quirky, imperfect human beings who happen to be making something notable.

the adolescent hubris and misogyny of these two issues aside, you can see that his problem is that he thinks they're good because they're big, rather than big because they're good. he's bought into the marketing contrivance of the past few years that the beatles represent some kind of platonic ideal of universal love that's the same for everyone and everything, and that any portrayal of them should therefore be massive and all-encompassing. but he's mistaking the packaging for what's inside it, which is four oddballs who have spent the last decade fueled in large part by their deeply personal attachment to one another and wonky charisma that makes audiences want to connect with them. they're not prophets or wizards; they're a close-knit club band who have a taste for novelty and have been set loose on the fancy recording equipment. MLH is blinded by the glamour that's been painted over them, though, so he doesn't see that the strange, sometimes ugly little love that keeps them chugging along is more important to who they are than the perfect and global significance he imagines them having.

which is what makes me marvel at "two of us," because it operates on the absolute reverse of that mistake. so much of what makes it work is that it happens on a teeny tiny scale. most of the movie has fictional john and fictional paul as the only characters on screen, and nearly all the action is them talking to each other. if there are other speaking characters present, there's a sense of discomfort or comedic awkwardness - john and paul are initially tense in each other's presence, but at the same time are the only people either of them are comfortable with. they seem protected in their solitude, which is a hell of a contrast to how exposed and cornered the real beatles seem in the twickenham footage from let it be/get back. the whole story is a bittersweet bit of wish fulfillment about two people mending a complicated friendship, because the magic was never that they were larger than life, it was that they were human-sized all along, and that was more special than idealized caricatures of rock stars could have ever been. it took him 30 years, but this guy did eventually figure out what he did wrong and try again. I don't know, I think it's neat.

(I do think linda should have gotten a free swing at him, though.)

[idontwanttospoiltheparty]

what's your fridged fic about? why is it fridged?

I never talked much about it, because it never even got close to publication. I had been working on it for months when I put it on hold to do ILTY instead, although I did post a preview of it once here. That preview doesn't really explain the WHOLE idea though.

I'll leave the rest under a cut cause it's a bit long:

Basically the idea sprang to me as a newcomer to the whole Tinhatting Shebang and after reading some time travel fix-it. It kind of made me think of what my take on the whole thing would be in relation to my general thoughts on McLennon. It's also an afterlife scenario and Also it is like completely ABOUT explicitly non-reciprocated John/Paul (though with a happy ending!).

The basic premise (which I'm now gonna reveal against my better instincts because I really am not sure what to DO about this story and maybe knowing if anyone is in any sense interested would help) is that when Paul dies (whenever that may be), he gets the chance to change one of his past actions with regard to John. And the story follows him revisiting memories as he decides what change to make, but these memories also make him rethink John and how John may have felt about him.

There's also a bit of a twist but I'm not revealing that lol.

I fridged it originally because I was really really struggling to write it because the descriptions felt too advanced for me and I was constantly getting stuck (and restarted a chapter twice!).

With 170k words under my belt now, I don't really think that would be much of a problem anymore, at least not to actually get it down, but my issue is that it just feels like there's something kind of wrong with the plot. I find it a bit too simplistic now, forced in certain ways to get my point across, I guess.

At the same time, I actually started this story at the end and I wrote a lot of stuff in there I find like really good, emotionally (though also self-indulgent lol). But I also wonder if maybe the main things I wanted to say in this story can be better expressed in other fics I've had ideas for since because a lot of the more abstract ideas fit those other stories as well.

Yeah…

[johnmccharmly]

“No actually we’re just good friends” 

The “what if’s” of John and Paul really kills me. For example, if John wasn’t taken so soon...

 Would Paul of finally told him how much he truly loved him?

 Would John of got to record with his best mates again?

 Would John and Paul finally realized how spectacular their bond truly was?

I can not begin to imagine being in Paul’s place with a head full of wonders and regrets regarding his best friend. I only hope to find something this deep in my current lifetime. I have always adored the Beatles but I have just recently dug deeper into their lives and relations with each other, mostly John and Paul, and it is truly incredible how much love they shared for one another to the point of near hatred at times. The inability to express that love to one another was insane. I really have no reason to be so passionate for these people as I am, but I am not regretting a single minute of it. Their (All of the 4) lives, legacies, and music will forever be one of the most important things in my life.

*Side Note*: I am also so grateful I found a platform to share my endless thoughts and feeling on The Beatles and McLennon without seeming insane haha. It’s truly great, and I am so happy I found this amazing fandom here!

[mclennonlgbt]

Paul's alleged neurodiversity, and how did it affect his relationship with John?

EDIT: After receiving some comments, I understood I oversimplified that issue. Probably John was also a ND person because this is a really broad term. But my point still stands: I think the main reason of John's rejection was that Paul wasn't able to distinguish between different types of attraction and couldn't communicate it in the way that was clear to John.

Disclaimer: Everything I say in this post is my opinion only. I don't insist that it has to be absolutely true. Also, I'm not going to diagnose someone remotely! What I'm going to do here is a fan analysis of my favorite musicians rather than a PhD thesis.

So, I was listening to Another Kind of Mind podcast, more specifically - Episode 5 of their Pizza and Fairytales series. The hosts express a hypothesis that I immediately found credible: maybe Paul is neurodivergent? Here is the speculation material: Paul is one of the most prolific and productive songwriters of the second half of the 20th century (a reference to music being his special interest); very often he gives the impression that he is masking his various reactions, feelings, as if he is wearing armor - masking is a very common practice among neurodivergent people, especially if the family expected them to "behave normally" (which was the case with Paul); the hosts also pointed his nervous tics, his synesthesia and the fact that some of his patterns of behavior are as rigid as telling the same stories over and over again.

Again - it's not diagnosis, it's just guessing, speculating. From my perspective, as a non-neurotypical person, I can say that this theory makes a lot of sense.

But how does all of this relate to McLennon? Well, here's my interpretation: Lennon was neurotypical (EDIT: he probably wasn't but IMO he had more "neurotypical" concept of love and affection than Paul), so he could make a clear distinction between platonic and romantic attraction. Consequently, he was aware that he was in love with McCartney and expected a reaction from him.

And Paul is perhaps non-neurotypical. I know from experience (mine and some other people - this is anecdotal evidence, not reliable research) that often neudivergent persons either do not distinguish between platonic and romantic love, or they do not care too much about the difference, or they merge into one. Or they have some other types of attractions (understanding them and translating them into the language of the neurotypical world can be a daunting or even impossible task). So McCartney might not really know what Lennon expected from him + might not know / still don't know what he exactly felt about Lennon? I mean, I'm sure he felt and feel love, but can he distinguish the type? He wanted to be John's best friend and songwriting partner - and nothing else/more, or did he need to be in a romantic relationship with him? Or maybe he needed something else? The first difficulty is understanding what you are feeling. The second is to communicate it to the other person. In my view John wasn't overly understanding, especially on a delicate and vulnerable matter such as feelings, because he was terrified of rejection.

Here's how I imagine their interaction in India:

JOHN: I'm in love with you, do you want to be with me?

PAUL:

*inside: Hmmm, what exactly is the difference between brotherly and romantic love? How is friendship different from a romantic relationship, especially in our case? Let me analyze all my 25 types of attraction...

*outside: lack of unambiguous reaction

JOHN: Oh, so you're rejecting me, right? Okay! Then fuck off! I'm going to get Yoko and we will parade with our love and relationship so hard that maybe it will finally provoke you to some kind of reaction, fucking prick!

This is the interpretation in which I believe the most today. But I'd love to hear your thoughts! No ableism allowed.

[johns-diqi]

Ladies and gents my mclennon opinions because some people decide to be salty and mean to people about what they think about two old men dating:

I think mclennon actually happened. Like they dated and kissed and hugged and called each other sweet names. Like them calling each other baby (a lot) or saying their relationship was like a marriage. Even the people around them who knew them personally say things like that. The songs are also a big ol chunk of proof for me and a lot of people actually. Songs like India India, I know I know, no words, early days, hey Jude, if I fell, I’m losing you, my brave face, real love demo, Johnny Johnny, call me back again like there are so many telling songs that reference the other.

If you disagree like epic that’s great! We love opinions. What we DONT love is hating on other people and making them feel unwelcome in the fandom because of their opinions. I’m not trying to start anything here I swear I just think we should be more accepting of opinions and open to different thoughts that people have. This is just my personal opinion and if you don’t agree, great! If you do agree, even better but this fandom needs to normalize separate opinions. There’s some really cool people in this fandom who feel hated on because of what they think or how they feel like dude that sucks. Imagine getting into something and becoming obsessed with it and having a super strong opinion and sharing it and it getting absolutely trashed by other people, them saying that it’s wrong to think like that because this this and that. A fandoms supposed to be a place to share a similarity in interests and find people to relate to but that becomes hard when we can’t just let people be people. This also goes for the queen fandom as well as I see really popular blogs get hate for art they make or write or something they say constantly

IF YOU DONT LIKE AN OPINION SO MUCH THAT YOU THINK SOMEONE DESERVES HATE FOR IT THEN IGNORE IT KAREN AND STACY ITS NOT THAT HARD <3