#which is like. buddy what do you think a redemption arc IS

[ourflagmeansgayrights]

nobody thinks izzy is mean to ed “for no reason” btw. he’s got reasons! he’s got motivations! but izzy’s reasons don’t excuse him, and they’re not written to excuse him. izzy’s actions are justifiable from his perspective, but the show doesn’t agree with his perspective. yknow, because he’s an antagonist?

and an antagonist’s actions can be unjustified AND sympathetic, actually. i personally don’t find izzy to be sympathetic, but that’s just my taste in blorbos. just for an example tho: azula from avatar the last airbender is very sympathetic to me, but that doesn’t make her actions justified, yknow? she was helping her dad commit genocide. no amount of childhood trauma excuses that.

that’s where the “villain discourse” around izzy comes from. when there’s a post talking about how fucked up it was that izzy called ye olde SWAT team on the Revenge and someone argues “well, he just wanted his captain back! ed was changing and leaving izzy behind! he felt betrayed and heartbroken!” it’s like… yeah, we know??? that doesn’t make calling the navy not fucked up????

or a post about how cruel izzy’s being when he says “i should’ve let the english kill you. this… whatever it is you’ve become is a fate worse than death. edward better watch his fucking step” getting countered with “izzy thinks ed needs to be tough or else the crew is going to lose respect for ed and their respect for ed is the only reason izzy didn’t get thrown overboard” or “izzy doesn’t understand how ed is changing and he doesn’t like it” like yeah we all know that, the thing is that izzy is wrong and that’s the whole point.

idk. liking and sympathizing with izzy doesn’t have to mean misunderstanding his narrative role in season 1, y’all. he’s an antagonist, and his reasons are not meant to be excuses. if he gets a redemption arc, it’s going to be a redemption arc, not an “izzy-was-justified-the-whole-time” arc. and as long as the fandom understands that, then we’re all in agreement!

[mdhwrites]

TOH Fans Don't Know What Redemption Is

TL:DR: TOH as a show uses the tropes and veneer of redemption a lot but fails to actually engage with the fact that redemption is not about no longer being a dick. Your kind of a dick friend does not need to be redeemed for calling you names, they just need to stop calling you names. No, redemption is about making up for past sins... Which TOH never does.

You do not go to confessional to tell someone you did something bad and then ask them to forget about it. You go there to be told what you must do to be redeemed in the eyes of the Lord or to be assured that there was no sin in the first place. If there was, you are asked to perform a service, even if just a set of prayers, to make up for your slip in faith and show your devotion to the path of good. You sacrifice your time and seek to do better. That is inherently a part of redemption. I frame this religiously but hey, if you get rowdy in your buddy's house when they asked you not to and you break something of theirs, you don't just apologize. You usually actually try to make it up to them if you can because otherwise all you've done is give them words when it's actions that spoke for your disregard to them. You might even ask what you can do to make it up to them.

For an absolutely classic and genuinely amazing example of this: Megamind. In the middle of his arc, Roxanne makes it clear that what Megamind has done has hurt her. Hurt what she cares about. That it has made her world worse. What does Megamind do? He returns the art, he cleans up the city... In his own way and in general UNDOES HIS CRIMES. In that one moment, he stops being selfish and actively attempts to make up for it for someone else by righting his wrongs. The worst you can say is that he's doing it because he likes someone and wants their affection but like... Yeah, that's the motivation to change and Megamind even admits himself that he's finding doing good to be enjoyable now. It's a powerful moment because it so clearly contrasts who he was in a way that would be impossible if he were not seeking redemption and being redeemed.

The ONE TIME TOH actually manages this is Lilith. She recognizes that cursing her sister was wrong. She recognizes that her attempts to be the most powerful person on the Isles was wrong. As such, her betrayal of Belos is NOT her redemption. If she chose to betray Belos because she personal gain in it or saw that it was a dead end in life, it would not be redeeming (this will come up later). Instead, she is truly redeemed because she gives up potentially everything but especially her ability to be above others and her sister by taking the curse unto herself. By sharing that burden she was responsible for first and acknowledging that what she did, specifically, was wrong.

People don't champion Lilith though as some great redemption, do they? Not when it comes to TOH. She's overshadowed by the ones given more of a to do like Hunter, Amity and The Collector. Especially those first two though. So, how do they manage?

Amity has crimes. She bullied Willow when she did not have to as Odalia's demand was ONLY to stop being friends with her. She bullied Willow regardless. She attempted to murder Luz. She tried to remove Luz's ability to use magic and was overall just a general bitch who was more than happy to keep taunting Luz for entertainment. She is genuinely a fucking AWFUL human being at the beginning of the series. Does she even bother recognizing this?

No. Not with more than words. That's all Willow gets. In fact, Amity is so disinterested in making up for being a bitch to Willow that she ignores EVERYTHING about her for almost an entire season after they 'make up' which they only make up with words. Amity just says the right thing and seems to think that's all it takes. She still uses Willow for her own selfish needs in Falls and Follies and she doesn't respect Willow during Labyrinth Runners. She does literally nothing to actually redeem herself for this.

How about refuting Boscha or her mom? Those are pretty big deals and against her old self, right? Well, yes and no but we need to interrogate the why for that. To the audience, it is meant to signify Amity giving up her past influences to be a better person. As I stated at the top, it is a common trope in redemption arcs which TOH does engage with. However... She's doing them for Luz and not because of the past. She tells Boscha to go fuck herself not because Amity was a grade A bitch with Boscha but because Boscha is now bullying someone she cares about so she can dropped just as fast and brutally as she did Willow in the past for the sake of pleasing someone else. NOTHING about her behavior is different except now she's doing it for someone as good. That's not redemption. We don't praise the Punisher here just because he murders bad men. Odalia is similar. It's not to make up for Odalia's influence or the things she did because of Odalia, it is to selfishly proclaim her own personhood... And more importantly, save her girlfriend. It's not even to make up for the expulsion, it's JUST to keep Luz alive. Yes, she gets them unexpelled but only once she first acts for the sake of Luz not dying. She has NO INTEREST in getting involved until then and at that point, it's not her crime, it's Odalia's. That's what makes her motivation being Luz not work because the motivation might be Luz, but the result isn't her facing her past, it's just facing a cartoonish villain.

And if your argument is "Well, all she did was because of Odalia," I would respond with, "Okay, that not a redemption then, that's just a regular character arc." If your character does not actually try to IN UNIVERSE redeem themselves, how can you call it a redemption arc? Sasha is ready to DIE for all of Wartwood to make up for the fact that they're gonna get wiped off the face of the map because of her. She acknowledges that she was wrong and always wrong and goes out to do something about that. She gives up command to Anne in order to try avoid her old mistakes because she is so actively trying to do better than she used to. Redemption is never easy and requires shit like this. The best way to do it fast is, well... Death.

This is why the heroic sacrifice trope is so beloved for redeemed villains. They go from spending an entire life causing misery and being selfish to making the ultimate sacrifice against that which they stood for. In one moment, they seek that redemption... But expect no reward which only further bolsters how this is redemption. Redemption is selfless. You never HAVE to redeem yourself. You never expect a prize or even a better life from redeeming yourself besides being able to sleep better at night. It's a powerful trope...

And Hunter's version of it is literally the worst example I can think of for the trope. Yes, we technically get him rescuing the Emerald Entrails before this as a moment of redemption but what about just redeeming his time under Belos and as the Golden Guard? Well... Essentially no one even gets more than a token apology for that. He just sob stories his way into people's hearts instead of actually do anything to earn their affection outside of Willow KIND OF. But hey, that should be fine since he does sacrifice his own life, right?

Well, again, context. What does he sacrifice for? Because it's not anyone other than him. Just listen to literally the words he's saying. He talks about how much better his life is now. How much he likes the perks of being a good guy like friends. He barely remembers to include that stopping Belos needs to be a part of this without him just looking like a mooch of a friend because he never mentions how it feels good to help people, how he hates what he did with the Emperor or even that he believes more in self expression now. It's ENTIRELY selfish. He doesn't even expect to die, he's just telling Belos to go fuck himself and ends up dying in the process, which is actually pretty normal for a selfish henchman betrayal it's just that the show doesn't realize that's what he's doing.

This is indicative of the show's approach to redemption as a whole and we even get a thesis statement on that. The Collector. If you just say you're sorry and are on the correct side, you're redeemed! Making up for all the damage you did when you absolutely can fix it in like a week? Actually putting yourself up for punishment by those who's autonomy you took away and then tortured? Fucking ANYTHING besides unpuppeting people that he did for months to terrorize the entire Isles? No. He said he's sorry and he's just a goofy little guy so he's redeemed! Right?... Right?

And then the Collector takes this very basic idea of redemption, of just needing to show a bit of kindness and people will magically change, and applies it to Belos. For only the second time, in the whole series, does it not work. The problem with saying that means the show understands this topic and has nuance is... The other example is Kikimora. Neither of these characters are people. They caricatures of villains. They're so pure evil that the idea of redeeming them is, well... A joke. Literally, in the show, the attempt to redeem Belos is a joke. Why would you think the baby eating psycopath was just going to need a hug? That is the level of cartoon villain we are dealing. That's not nuance, it's bullshit, which is why it has never functioned as a critique of SU like it clearly is, especially not when the person who does it JUST NEEDED A FEW KIND WORDS. Like the Collector literally IS just the arc they describe and then try to mock and never even blinks at this fact.

But we call these redemption arcs because they were tokenly villains before hand. I would at this point argue that we need to stop doing that. If we think TOH even purports the concept of redemption, that implies you can learn how to write redemption through TOH. You can't. Bluntly, you cannot because it barely ever tries and when it fails, it fails miserably.

The Diamonds at least promised, and kept their word, to undo their damages. I don't think you get to mock that with your redemptions when you can't even manage that much 75% of the time. See you next tale.

======+++++======

I have a public Discord for any and all who want to join!

I also have an Amazon page for all of my original works in various forms of character focused romances from cute, teenage romance to erotica series of my past. I have an Ao3 for my fanfiction projects as well if that catches your fancy instead. If you want to hang out with me, I stream from time to time and love to chat with chat.

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[canonicallyobserving911]

Buck & Eddie: They're Soulmates!

Buck and Eddie share a once in a lifetime love of each other's lives type of love that transcends space and time.

The love they share is not platonic, it's romantic and the natural chemistry they have is OFF THE CHARTS.

There are people who wish they could have one tenth of the love they share with each other and that's why over the years, the show has made it a point to highlight and compare their love interests against the other one as a way to prove Buck and Eddie are meant for each other.

Therefore, can it once and for all be acknowledged that the possible reason why NONE of Buck’s previous relationships with AC, AM, TK and ND never worked was because THEY WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO?

The same goes for Eddie because NONE of his relationships ever worked either including the one he had with Chris' mother. SD, AF and now M (who the show still hasn't given a last name and that speaks volumes as to how long she'll possibly be around) didn’t or won't work for Eddie because THEY WEREN'T/AREN'T SUPPOSED TOO EITHER?

It's interesting to see all these takes on how some people view their previous relationships with those women through rose colored glasses and saying things like they could have been great if... (_______ fill in the blank with whatever randomness you'd like). The point is they weren't meant to be anything but a placeholder until Buddie goes CANON.

Buck

There have been so many takes on Buck and TK being perfect because they were cute together but did everyone who thinks that forget she was willing to throw the 118 and their captain under the bus in 2x6? Don't even try to rebutt it with logic from that fake redemption arc that was included in 5x7 for her because in 5x17 she ultimately accomplished her goal by doing exactly what she intended four years earlier when she broke a promise she made to Buck and ran with the Jonah story then wrote a raggedy book about it exactly one year later in 6x17. It's true that Buck knew who she was but he still dated her (which speaks more to his poor decision making than hers) but they both knew it was wrong from the start. They were never going to work and they were never FRIENDS. Friends don't treat each other like $hit so they can get their way then expect for you to just be ok with it and follow it up with a half @ssed apology like, "I'm sorry you're still upset about the story" 🙄. With friends like that, Buck doesn't need enemies.

AC literally ABANDONED him but there are still people who think she would have been good for him. It appears they forgot she FOUND a man with two kids in another country and in 3x18 she came back two years later to rub Buck’s face in it. She didn't even have the decency to apologize to him.

AM was the worst of all because SHE WAS NEVER THERE WHEN BUCK NEEDED HER. Was she nice, yes but she didn't know him at all and when his leg got crushed by the ladder truck in 2x18, she dipped and ABANDONED him too. But for some reason, she's being heralded as his best relationship ever which is so far from the truth it's funny sad not funny haha. She left him in his loft with a cast on his leg because she didn't know what she wanted.

ND was/is only interested in Buck because he DIED! THAT'S IT! There's nothing else to the story. She clearly COULDN'T SEE HIM because they only knew each other for two seconds so please stop romanticizing their hookup like it was some "Gone with the Wind" love story because that's a bunch of BS since they didn't and still don't know each other.

Eddie

SD was NOT the perfect wife and mother people who wanted her to stick around and coparent Chris with Eddie have made her out to be. The show clearly retconned her character in 6x15 like she was so young and she didn't deserve to die but be clear, the relationship she had with Eddie was toxic as F%ck! All they did was argue and instead of talking, they had sex. They didn't communicate and when she was ready to leave again, she thought she would have time to come back and be "someone's wife and someone's mother" (her words but notice she didn't say Chris' mother or Eddie's wife, she said someone's) but her time ran out and she didn't get the chance, hence the title of the episode she died in, "Careful what you wish for". Trust and believe she had a lot of faults and Eddie did too but her being young wasn't an excuse for her leaving Chris and not contacting him for almost 2 years. If Eddie wouldn't have contacted her about her interviewing at Durand, would she have ever come back? Who knows but probably not since she was out there living her best life like she didn't have a kid.

AF was nice but just because her and Eddie were cute together, it doesn't mean they were soulmates. Did the people rooting for them to stay together even realize that she was Chris' schoolteacher in 3x12 but she DIDN'T OFFER EDDIE ANY SUGGESTIONS ON HOW TO HELP CHRIS SKATEBOARD? That was literally her job but she was career driven which isn't a bad thing but it seemed like she was in love with the idea of being in love just like Eddie was. She was trying to avoid dealing with the issues that were prevalent in their relationship and she didn't even ask Eddie about his panic attacks to try and find out what was causing them. But she did throw them in his face when he broke up with her.

M is IN LOVE WITH HER BROTHER! It was clear she was in 6x5 when she almost kissed him on the mouth while they were in the ambulance. Also, she's a loner, hence the meaning of her name, Marisol, it literally means solitude. When Eddie met her, she was doing upgrades on her home by herself until her brother showed up and made a complete mess of things. If Eddie does try to pursue something formidable with her in season 7, everyone knows how it will end because EDDIE TOLD THE AUDIENCE IN 6X14... he'll be performing and trying not to panic and his performance anxiety will be at a level 100.

Buddie

Who's never left Buck? EDDIE!

Who loves both Eddie and Chris? BUCK!

Who takes care of Buck? EDDIE!

Who listens to Eddie? BUCK!

The list can go on and on but the point of this post is for those who chose to see what they want to see instead of what 9-1-1 has CLEARLY been depicting for Buck and Eddie over the past six years. None of Buck’s or Eddie’s love interests were written to work because they weren't/aren't supposed to.

No one has natural chemistry with them like they have with each other and it's written that way on PURPOSE!

[konnosaurus]

iiiiit's sonny!!

sonny is such an intriguing little character to me. i really like him, but am very curious about his character and his placement in the series. i'm gonna stick a few thoughts about him (and diesel, honestly, and their interesting dynamic) under the cut!

even though sonny first appeared in the Last Series of the show, he felt like he had been designed with longevity in mind (at least to me!). he had personal character relationships with thomas (positive), diesel (complicated) and james (intriguing). unlike a lot of the characters introduced at the very of the series run, sonny was given these relationships that made you feel he could have his own character growth and also influence other characters and their stories.

sonny and diesel specifically are an interesting pair. diesel had only relatively recently had his minor/major redemption arc in springtime for diesel, but more recent relevant episodes, in my opinion, are diesel glows away & diesel do right. these episodes have a very interesting understanding of diesel which honestly remind me quite a bit of james (which is probably odd to say!). he thinks he is great, and that his presence makes the railway a better place, but in reality… he isn't really helping all that much because his high opinion of himself makes him do his jobs worse than if he just… tried to do them himself. it makes the other engines have a worse opinion of him than if he just talked to them as equals.

this is where sonny comes in. diesel, who has learnt through his past few episodes that he can't make other engines like him by being a nuisance and that he must put his own effort in to do his jobs correctly, is introduced to a new engine who has no preconceptions about him at all. in fact, he seems to enjoy his presence! but this is a whole new thing to diesel, who has not really had a chance to have a new interaction without the other engine involved having been told about his ways~~. while he probably hadn't had toooo many interactions with nia before diesel glows away, it was never implied she was unaware of the way he is, where as this is clearly all new to sonny.

these interactions between sonny and diesel show the two growing close very quickly- neither has really had any close buddies at any recent point, as far as we know. nobody seems to particularly enjoy the company of diesel, and sonny has been implied to have been on his own engine-wise, with only baz and bernie for a while at least. sonny is shown as inherently good- he tries to help james, he tries to do the other engines jobs. diesel as shown as inherently bad- even though he has grown, and we have seen him grow, his first instinct when given the opportunity is to use someone for his own gain. but it is different this time! when diesel causes something to go wrong for somebody else, he apologises without having to make it a whole ~thing~, which was exactly what he struggled with in springtime for diesel. he could apologise, then, but not directly. now he was able to manage it!

sonny managed to bring out the best in diesel, get a direct apology from him ((and also a direct (though sliiiightly reluctant) apology from james)), and get himself into the good books of other engines in essentially one day. though this happens quite a lot in the childrens-morals stories of thomas, there is something about him that brought that out in the characters in a way that felt entirely natural. and i just think that is neat!!

[lemotmo]

Another really good one, I like this because we're starting to see a lot of this redemption thing in the BT tags. This was a question about Gerard and his connection to Tommy. And now that we know they're not upset about us sharing their answers I feel okay sending it to you.

A. Happy Friday to you as well! Unfortunately, based on your question, I don't think you're going to like my answer, but I promised you guys my honesty so here goes. Gerard is not here for Tommy. Gerard is not here for a Tommy redemption arc. Mainly because we (the audience) are not meant to see Tommy as needing redemption. Tommy is a general audience character. Meaning everything we're supposed to know or care about where Tommy is concerned is what the show told us in season 7. He is the guy Buck is currently dating and he used to work at the 118 before Bobby took over. That's it. That's all the show needs the audience to care about, at least right now. Fandom people are the only ones who remember his exact history, and no offense to anyone, they didn't bring him in for us. He is there to serve a specific story purpose so his individual history is irrelevant. Gerard is there for Bobby, and increasingly I think, Eddie. The Bobby stuff is obvious, but Ryan has mentioned Gerard now in a couple of interviews so I think he's giving us a clue that Eddie and Gerard will be some kind of story.

The Tommy stuff depends on whatever reason the show decides to give for his breakup with Buck. And yes, I do genuinely believe that is what's coming. If he's meant to be the one responsible for Buck figuring out his feelings for Eddie then I don't think his history with Gerard will be brought up except maybe as a scene or two in passing (if it's not necessary for the breakup, it probably won't be mentioned at all). If Buck is the one they want to end things, and have him figure out his Eddie feelings another way, then I think Tommy's past with Gerard will play a bigger role in their breakup. Especially if he tells Buck to deal with him by just keeping his mouth shut, and his head down and ignoring him. We all know Buck won't do that, especially if Gerard makes Eddie a target. So it depends entirely on the reason for their breakup. They don't need Tommy in a ton of scenes to accomplish either scenario, which is good because I do think he will also be filming SWAT and his availability won't be great. If he's supposed to figure out the Buck and Eddie thing, and point it out to Buck, we will need his reaction to at least some Buck and Eddie moments, (or at least his reaction to Buck's reaction to some of those moments), so they might need him for a few more scenes if they go that route for the breakup. Either way I don't see him lasting past the winter finale. Whatever the plan for Buck, I think he'll be ready for Eddie by the break, maybe even before. I think the second half of the season will be getting Eddie ready and then building up to Buddie. I don't see them dragging the Buddie thing out all season but I do think it will be the latter part of the back half of the season. Depending on Lou's availability he may be done sooner than the winter finale. We just don't know yet. But as someone who has watched the show from the beginning I don't know what other direction the Eddie storyline could be going. It's he's queer, or they're writing him as never going to be in love again because he was that in love with Shannon (which would be god awful television), or he becomes a devout Catholic (absolutely not). Those are kind of the only outcomes they've given themselves. And I'm sorry you don't like them, but Buck and Eddie learning to navigate an actual relationship, given Eddie's intimacy issues, inability to communicate his feelings, and his family/upbringing, as well as Buck's abandonment issues and need to fix everything is interesting storyline after interesting storyline. No one will force you to watch. And you're correct that lots of people will be pissed off, but many more would love it. They're very well liked by the general audience, people have got to stop trying to convince themselves otherwise because it's simply untrue. They're popular, people like them and most people would be interested in watching that storyline play out. It feels earned. Earned by Buck and Eddie and the audience. I know this answer has probably upset you and many others, and that is never my intention, but I also don't believe in telling people what they want to hear when the canon events seem to be leading in a different direction.

*chef's kiss* love it love it love it

Hi Nonny, thank you for sending in this really interesting message from the ‘anonymous blog I love’.

For those of you who have missed it, the OP of these very interesting posts on BT and Buddie has contacted me yesterday. They are a BT shipper that also like Buddie and they are okay with me posting their messages. They do however, wish to remain anonymous because they don’t want to attract any more negative attention. Their inbox is probably already a minefield, so let’s not add to their stress and respect their wishes. Thank you.

If you are interested in the OP’s posts, you can find all of their posts so far under the tag: anonymous blog I love.

Now, let’s talk about this answer:

The answer above is very interesting to me. They talk about Tommy’s role in the whole Gerrard saga and I fully agree on most of it. They point out again that Tommy is there to serve a purpose in Buck’s story, so essentially he is there as a plot device in Buck’s narrative.

As for Tommy’s role in Buck’s story, I am of the belief that Tommy will be the one to tell Buck to just ‘Keep your head down, your mouth shut and pretend it isn't there.’ as he complains to him about Gerrard and how he treats his friends on the 118. This is something Buck could never do. He isn’t like Tommy, he can’t just accept and tolerate his friends being bullied by their new captain.

I agree with OP that Tommy will probably be gone by the end of 8a. His arc will be finished and the queer Eddie/Buddie arc will be in full swing by then. This arc won’t find its satisfying ending until well into 8b though. There needs to be drama first. And I do believe that there will be a lot of drama before we actually get the payoff of the Buddie storyline.

The fact that Eddie’s arc is most likely to go into the direction of him realising he’s queer seems unavoidable. It’s like OP said: It’s either queer Eddie with eventual Buddie or ‘never again in love’ Eddie. Two options and we all know which one will bring along the most press and a whole gaggle of new viewers. 😉

Now, as a treat, I have a second post from the OP for you today. This was sent to my mutual and friend @buddiebeginz and she has kindly allowed me to use her post on my blog in order to centralise all the posts from the OP. Thank you Justine!

For context I’d like to relay to you why this post was sent to Justine. She received an ask earlier which she replied to here. I urge all of you to read her reply as well, as it was very insightful and I do agree with most of it.

Anyway, someone else sent her an anon ask later on as a response to the post she made. This anon had found a reply from the OP as to why they thought that Tommy is ‘good’ for Buck ‘right now’ and why they enjoy the character’s role in Buck’s story for as long as it will last.

Keep reading under the cut. I didn't want to clog anyone's dash with too long of a post.

Here is that ask with OP’s answer:

I admit I really like this answer. The way they break down Tommy’s role in Buck’s story as Buck having a ‘fun and light’ first experience as a newly out bisexual, before the more ‘heavy’ Eddie and Buddie story will start. I understand it and I can see how that could be some valuable life experience for Buck, so he is strong enough to tackle the next part of the Buddie journey. I can logically 'perceive' that this is what the writers originally intended for the BT storyline.

Does this mean that I suddenly like Tommy and the BT arc? No. Definitely not. And I think the problem can be found in the way that Tommy and BT was written. He wasn't written as a very appealing character. I don’t see the chemistry between him and Buck and I think they don’t fit well together. Their ‘energies’ just don't match. I don't see enough proof of him truly caring about Buck in any of the episodes. So, I admit I can't see the 'light and fun' experience OP talks about. To me Tommy is just weighing Buck down with too much negativity.

And let's not forget about how we were all introduced to Tommy in season 2 and the way he treated Hen and Chimney. The man was never meant to be a 'nice and likeable' character with a questionable background like that. They tried to redeem him somewhat with the helicopter cruise ship rescue storyline, but to me it fell kind of flat.

And yes, of course there is also the ‘Eddie factor’. I have been shipping Buddie for years now, so whether I like it or not, I am biased towards Buddie. I am also not a multi-shipper. I just don’t have that in me. Once I latch onto a ship I never let go. 😊

So yeah, ultimately… different opinions make for more interesting conversations, right? And I love reading about OP’s opinions. Sometimes they match my own and sometimes they don’t, but I still respect them and value their view on 911. That’s what fandom should be about: sharing opinions, respectfully agreeing or disagreeing with each other, listening and learning from each other. It’s so much more enjoyable than sending anonymous hatred to someone’s inbox.

Anyway, once again I ask everyone to not post any hate towards the OP in the comments or reblogs. I do highly encourage a civil conversation about the topics discussed in this post. 😊

[steeltwigz]

Ok I've been getting a lot more Taco II discourse on my timeline recently. NOW I see what you all mean.... I gotta be honest, a lot of the posts to me still read as fans making up things to be mad about fhdjf what do you MEAN "Taco is irredeemable and doesn't Want to be redeemed and forcing her down a traditional redemption arc is Impossible AND you're a misogynist for misinterpreting her character" OKAYYY. Sit down buddy, Cool IT. What in the WORLD are you talking about. Did you miss the last minute of the episode where she says "no more running" and decides to face her fears head on, with the support of MePad. Did you miss all those letters she sent to Pickle, or her reaching for the portal for "another chance" at season 1, so she could fix her mistakes and wouldn't have hurt her friend? "But she wanted to kill Balloon that one time!" ONE she wanted to taze him, relax. I mean like if he pops he pops, but that's pretty Par For The Course for an object show, ESPECIALLY when II2 was still developing its more serious, less hyper-violent slapstick tone. TWO part of her problem is that she doesn't change w the game, she's still running (at least partially) on season 1 rules and in season 1 killing people was pretty normal, sorryy. Like a HUUUUGE point of her narrative arc is how she's still making a lot of the same mistakes she made with Pickle, but she doesn't realize until it's too late bcuz she's still too focused on the game (until it all comes crashing down a second time and she hates herself about it, and tries to End The Whole Show (THROUGH NONVIOLENCE MIGHT I ADD)). The whole show, she's wanted nothing more than to be redeemed and to undo her mistakes becuz she REGRETS HURTING PEOPLE AND she doesn't fully believe she can or that she deserves to, until MePad begins to help her out. These two things can both be true!!

Also, come On man. Sooooo many characters in this show are "bad people" or can be mean or hurtful. (Honestly, Id argue that a huge theme of the show is realizing people are multi-faceted and that people aren't only their worst traits, or their stereotype personalities but are in fact just as complex and personable as anyone else. That the show and the game and the challenge bring out the worst in people for Drama or Views or Money, but that doesn't mean that's all there IS to the competitors, and even the hosts, and you can't judge them based solely on their worst traits, which are getting exacerbated and unnaturally worsened due to the harmful exploitative nature of reality TV). That doesn't make ANY of them "irredeemable". Taco can have a redemption arc just as much as MePhone or Knife or Nickel can, who IN MY OPINION have done similar, and also Way Worse Things than she did, that no one ever brings up in these conversations. And NO that doesn't make you a misogynist for misinterpreting Taco or for thinking Knife is fine and she isn't, it just makes you have poor plot comprehension skills and you're predisposed to hold bias against the antagonist character becuz she's the antagonist. It's Whatever.

[lover-of-mine]

See I have two questions I’m confused about now thanks to this deleted scene video and the BT response to it.

1) the Hen didn’t respect her queer elder.

Weren’t the BT fans like just last week? Throwing a fit over people calling Tommy Old and saying it didn’t matter how old he was. He wasn’t that old. And even going so far to DM Tim to try and find out his age. And now suddenly it’s “respect your elders”

We’re not gonna touch on the way it also reads as them saying the female poc needs to respect her superior white man 🙃

But also nice of them to I guess admit Tommy is old? Which brings back to what they originally were mad at about..?

2) redemption arc

I’ve seen multiple BT fans now saying after this clip they are getting the Tommy redemption arc finally. (He’s not) BUT

I’m confused on what exactly he’s being redeemed for? Haven’t they been saying for months now that Tommy didn’t do anything? It was Sal and Gerard. Tommy was innocent. Tommy maybe did some light teasing per Lou. Buddie fans are just exaggerating and hating on Lou/Tommy to hate.

So if Tommy didn’t do anything…then why does he need a redemption arc…?

Now I admit I’m not a fan of Tommy. And I don’t know if any of the BT fans read your blog but if you post this and they do, I am genuinely curious about their response to these questions because it really doesn’t seem like even they know which argument they are trying to make for this character.

The thing with the elder gay is even crazier when you realize Hen has been out longer. Last week there was the tantrum because realistic he's closer to 50 than 40. Now he's the elder queer?? I did see that coming tho, because they have been fighting queer women the whole time, them turning on Hen was a matter of time. And the redemption thing, you're asking for logic from a group that has proved multiple times they are incapable of logical thinking. But they have been scrambling trying to find a redemption for him. "he was abused as a child" "he was young and impressionable" (I think that's part of how mad they are at the idea of him being older, they need him to be as young as possible during the begins episodes to justify his actions) "he was protecting himself in the ways he could" none of that is actually backed by canon, so they were hoping Hen would say all is forgiven since Hen was a victim and queer. They very much want the show to make it so Tommy was a victim of Gerrard too and was acting that way to protect himself.

[venacoeurva]

...I know people in this day and age think any collaborative effort can fix things, often despite reality (ex. the MULTIPLE tumblr blackout protests over the last like 10 years across different owners of tumblr that didn’t change shit),

but I think going out of your way to buy things from tumblr en masse as a “well then they’ll be profitable and won’t have to change things to resemble profitable sites!” as if the CEO/higher ups are personally going to see this and not AT MOST just go “oh we made money, sick, Anyway.” is just. the most naive and frankly 5-year-old level of problem solving unrealistic idea if you think about it for more than 5 seconds. People are just so blinded by naive optimism it’s painful.

Staff isn’t going to see your purchases and go on a full redemption arc and restore porn in spite of payment systems’ massive stigma against it or Apple’s restrictions and never ever try to mimic Twitter or TikTok again, or whatever the fuck you’re expecting, they’ll keep focusing on shit tweaks that resemble other sites because those are what keep investors who think they know tech and user wants hooked and they think new people from other sites will come over for that instead of the fact these people are typically escaping those kinds of features.

Staff isn’t your friend, their vying for support like they’re your buddy who is hitting hard times and has been here holding your hand all these years is deliberate corporate marketing, they’re an arm of a corporation that spits in the face of LGBTQ+ people and especially black people for daring to post about themselves while touting themselves as The Queer Site! A diverse site! Look at this AMA we’re doing with someone about Black History Month! and you’re doing nobody a service when you’re unintentionally rewarding a service for getting worse because they will not know nor care about your motives, they just care that they got money and will continue making it worse regardless of you. They’re a corporation, not a small business ran by 10 people who are trying their best. People throwing money at Staff already encourages them, let alone when you buy into the weird parasocial shit they try with us which will continue as they see success with that method.

Like the mere idea of everyone buying the crabs to gift to make the site profitable is just unrealistic (especially in this economy with such terrible inflation and in NA there are issues with the weather and fires, on a site that mostly consists of groups of people who are typically low income or unable to work???), it feels very much like the gofundme pages people set up to raise money for celebrities who have debts who will be fine regardless and definitely don’t need your help. Corporations and CEOs are not your friends, they never will be. They do not care about you and they’re not some poor uwu victim of circumstance.

TL;DR half-assed blackouts aimed at companies that don’t care (that I have seen over and over) and “cr*b day” type efforts are incredibly dumb and will change nothing, and they will not change anything, just encourage them since they see they’re making money during their current marketing schemes, if they notice at all. You pitying them like they’re a poor innocent person is exactly what the corporation wants.

If you want to make a difference give that money to an artist or lgbtq+ people who basically get flagged as mature for Existing, or people who get their posts flagged for criticizing the site, or something, someone who gets screwed over by this site on the regular. It will do far more good than that whackadoo type pipe dream and sit down and think for a second, please.

[atomic-taco-muffin]

Havent been here in a hot second, Vanitas x fem reader smut where reader is. like a princess,, opposite of van and her and van have a fuck buddies type thing goin’ on? And like . Van is constantly coming to her when he’s pissed or stressed OH and reader is in love w him but he’s unsure? sorry to be a bother lmfao

So sorry to answer this so late! But I hope you enjoy this

Vanitas x Fem!Reader: Your Highness

Warnings: Filthy ass smut, degradation, get my boi Vanitas a redemption arc now Square! Fuck-buddy/friends-with-benefits relationship

Rating: NSFW under the cut

Vanitas, from the moment he was torn out of Ventus' body by Xehanort, has been told he couldn't feel anything except hatred and darkness. Yet, when he met you in Radiant Garden, he could've sworn he felt his non-existent heart skip a beat. He had to have you. And so began your relationship with him. What started off as a one-night stand turned into you being fuck buddies. But over time, you started to develop feelings for him. But you knew it would be impossible to be with him. He was always gone, only coming back to fuck you ruthlessly after a stressful day with the Organization. Until one night...

                                                          ☽✧☽✧

As you prepared for bed, a dark corridor opened, and Vanitas entered your room. He looked the same as the past few times you've seen him. Angry, disheveled, and covered in cuts and bruises. Neither of you said a word as you took him to your private bathroom and began cleaning up his wounds. As you took care of his bleeding lip, you thought about all the times he'd kissed you. How it was rough and passionate. You wondered if he ever knew how to be gentle if someone of the darkness could be gentle.

"You're staring," he muttered.

"Sorry," you quickly replied before going back to taking care of his injuries. You then noticed how he didn't wince the multiple times you've taken care of him. Was it something he learned or something he refused to admit? In all honesty, it made you that much more in love with him. You wanted to learn more about him.

"What're you thinking about?" he asked.

"Nothing," you replied.

"You're lying. I can see it in your eyes." Dammit, how did he know?! "So what's going on in that head of yours?"

You debated on whether or not to tell him the truth. That you were in love with him and wanted to be more than just fuck-buddies. That you wanted a real relationship with him. Vanitas tilted his head, curious about what was going on inside your head. You took a deep breath and told him the truth.

"I think I'm in love with you," you said. Vanitas froze, not expecting those words to come out of your mouth.

"You know we can't," he sighs.

"I know, but I can't help but be in love with you. I wanna be with you. I know I'm a princess and you're a being of darkness but I want you. And not just the sex. I want the real you. I wanna know what makes you tick, what your likes and dislikes are-"

"(Y/N)...we can't. The closest thing we can have is what we already have. I can't put you in danger. My father will punish me if he found out." Your heart broke at his words. You understood where he was coming from, but the words still stung. "This is probably the last we'll be together too."

"W-what do you mean?"

"...Tomorrow, Father's making the Organization go to war. Against the seven lights. I don't know if I'll come back. Which is why I came here. To be with you one last time." It broke your heart even more to hear these words, but you didn't refuse. You needed him just as much as he needed you.

"Okay," you replied. And with that he crashes his lips onto yours.

NSFW under the cut

Vanitas picked you up and brought you over to your bed where he then tossed you onto the fluffy mattress. You landed with a soft bounce and Vanitas crawled on top of you with a seductive yet predatory look on his face. You couldn't help but bite your lip and rub your thighs together, which didn't go unnoticed by him.

"Needy, aren't we?" he teased.

"When it comes to you, always," you replied. Vanitas smirked and began kissing your neck, leaving hickeys and bite marks all over it. You moaned softly and arched your back closer to him, wanting more of his touch and his kisses. Vanitas's hands trailed down your body reaching the hem of your night shirt.

"May I, your highness?" he teased. You nodded and he gladly pulled your shirt off, revealing your beautiful bosom. When you tried to cover yourself, Vanitas quickly yet gently took your wrists and pinned them above your head.

"None of that now, gorgeous," he said seductively. You whimpered under his intense gaze, but couldn't deny just how sexy it was being pinned underneath him. Vanitas then began kissing your chest, leaving bite marks and hickeys along your breasts and your nipples, eliciting a gasp from your lips. Vanitas chuckled, loving the sound that was escaping your mouth. He pulled away, satisfied with the amount of marks he left on you.

"That's more like it. Now those pathetic suitors will know that you belong to someone else," he said. He removed his shirt, revealing his abs, and making you bite your lip. He took notice of this and chuckled.

"Like what you see, your highness?" he teased. You blushed in embarrassment, which only fueled his entertainment. The two of you began making out again and Vanitas trailed his hands to your sleep pants, teasing the hem of it.

"May I?" he asked. You nodded and he took off your pants and your panties. Vanitas had to hold back a moan after looking at your beautiful pussy. You took notice of this and decided to tease him by grinding your pussy against his clothed crotch. Vanitas groaned and rolled his eyes back, loving the feeling of your teasing.

"Fuck baby~" he moaned. He needed you more than anything right now and you needed him. After enough teasing from the both of you, Vanitas took off his pants and lined up his cock against your entrance.

"You ready, baby?" he asked, wanting your consent. You nodded and wrapped your arms around his neck. He nodded back and slowly pushed himself into your tight, warm cunt. The two of you moaned, feeling the incredible amount of pleasure just by him being inside of you. Vanitas was kind enough to give you time to adjust to his size and when you gave him the okay, he began moving. The feeling of him thrusting inside of you was amazing! It was like you were made for his cock and his cock alone. As much as he felt amazing, it was not enough for you. You wanted him to go faster. To go harder.

"Vani~ Harder~" you moaned. Vanitas smirked and began fucking you harder and faster. You moaned loudly and arched your back again, the tip of his cock hitting your G-spot. Vanitas knew just by looking at your expression that he had found your G-spot and continued the pace, making sure to hit that spot repeatedly. You could feel your orgasm starting to creep up and you clung to Vanitas, not wanting to stop.

"Ugh, fuck~" Vanitas moaned, feeling your pussy clench on his dick. "Cum for me, baby~ Make a mess for me~"

As if on cue, you cream all over his dick which then caused Vanitas to cum deep inside of you with a loud moan. His orgasm felt so good that he ended up collapsing on top of you. The two of you stayed like this for a while, not saying anything. Just holding each other in post-orgasm bliss. After a moment of pure silence, Vanitas pulled away and looked into your eyes.

"You okay? Did I go too hard?" he asked.

"No. I'm okay," you replied, smiling up at him. Vanitas smiled back and kissed your forehead before standing up and getting something to clean you up with. After cleaning you up and getting you some water to drink, the two of you lay in bed together until the both of you fell asleep. When you woke up the next morning, Vanitas was gone. But there was a note on your nightstand from none other than Vanitas himself. You picked up the note and read it, tears welling up in your eyes.

(Y/N),

If you're reading this, then it means that I have left to fight in my father's war. I don't know if I'll make it out of this alive and come back to you. If I don't, then know that I love you more than anything in this cursed universe.

May your heart be your guiding key,

Vanitas

[girl4music]

So I’ve been spending these passed couple of days off work researching cast/crew interviews about ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ and a good few of them I’ve found have been Renee O’Connor interviews where she talks about the significance of Gabrielle as a character and how she relates to Xena. How she personally perceives the nature of the relationship between them. Renee has always perceived it as definitely romantic but not necessarily sexual. She’s always perceived Xena and Gabrielle as best friends in love rather than an actual official couple. Rather than sexually involved lovers. And it’s interesting to read her views of the characters and their relationship together through this lens because she - like me - seems to come at it from a much more profound and spiritual perspective. It really does make me wonder what she would think and tell me if she ever read my character study thesis because I think she would agree with it to be honest. She’d resonate with the theory that the characters were so intertwined with each other emotionally and intimately that they were one soul inhabiting two bodies that became each other at the conclusion.

It’s just the way she talks about the characters and their relationship together makes me think that way. Take for example this interview from way back in 2010. The way she expresses her views about both Xena and Gabrielle here and their love relationship.

WVM: “As I wrote on my blog today, to a true Xena fan, I’m probably the nightmare, because I’ve never seen the show. Now I’m intrigued, and I want to catch up on the series. So tell me: who is Gabrielle? What should I look out for as I watch?”

ROC: “In the beginning, she is very naïve, with an intense desire to search for who she is. Then she starts to be the counterbalance to Xena’s pragmatic warrior, so she becomes more of the peaceful, compassionate, loving partner to Xena’s person-seeking-redemption. Xena the Warrior Princess is looking for redemption, and Gabrielle is guiding her there in some profound way. I think that if you thought of the whole arc of the series, that’s what you could say. Xena discovers true love in Gabrielle. What else should you look for? In the beginning, she’s one of those people who can get herself out of any situation through fast talking. By the end of the series, she actually gets herself out of situations by using her own physical strength, fighting alongside Xena.”

WVM: “She’s also a bard. What does that mean, in Xena terms?”

ROC: “Gabrielle is a great storyteller. She loves to meet the poets along the way. Even at the end of the series — she admires Sappho’s poetry, and so Xena gives her this gift, a poem to her from Sappho. Gabrielle is the person who writes down and archives the adventures of Xena all along the way. Then she puts them in these scrolls, which are her prized possessions, and she carries them on all their journeys. So one great piece of humor is when Xena discovers that she can’t find any paper in the forest, so she uses one of the scrolls, rips off a piece of one.”

WVM: “That kind of paper? Toilet paper?”

ROC: “Yes! There was a wonderful lightness in the series. There were feminist themes, anti-war themes. But also humor. I still remember that scene: “Scrolls? You used my scrolls?”

It’s still the ultimate buddy movie, too. [Gabrielle and Xena] could always rely on each other. We always loved each other, too, so whenever a tragic flaw came over one of us, we always came through to the other side still loving each other.”

WVM: “But it’s my understanding that they were never depicted as lovers outright.”

ROC: “That was asked today. Someone said, “Do you think they ever basically made love,” is what the question was. That’s been the question of subtext for all these years. There was an incredible intimacy between Xena and Gabrielle. I don’t know if I said, “Yes” or “Probably.” If so, Lucy [Lawless, who played Xena] and I never defined that in playing the characters.

It’s a relationship I don’t think I’ve ever had: it’s best friends, it’s maternal, it’s combative — such as in warfare when you have to rely on your partner to think quickly.”

WVM: “There’s also an element of big sister/little sister, isn’t there?”

ROC: “Yeah, and yet I felt Xena was quite maternal, too. Xena defended Gabrielle. I don’t know if she sacrificed herself. It’s more than just a sexual intimacy. But that’s what people saw, so that’s what they could resonate with the most.”

WVM: “We don’t often get to see women’s friendship treated in this kind of depth. Usually the depictions are pretty superficial, or they don’t take up much screen time. And men — myself included — are always certain that there’s more going on and much more said between women when we’re not in the room.”

ROC: “Interesting. That’s the mind of a man!”

Renée recalled a scene between Xena and Gabrielle that demonstrated the characters’ closeness.

ROC: “We were around the campfire talking about a recap of what happened in the episode, some sort of change in the character had happened, and it was an intimate, vulnerable moment, and it happened around the campfire. I think there’s a moment of intimacy when people are vulnerable and open and loving, and I guess that’s where the “dot dot dot” comes in.

It’s funny you say that [about women’s friendships], because I think women are probably more threatened [than men] by seeing someone they love in an intimate relationship with someone else. Women feel that way. As opposed to something that looks — something that might just be a lustful projection. Isn’t that true?”

WVM: “I think guys tend to congratulate each other, rather than feel threatened. Maybe they’re hurt when feeling left out, like “I can’t hang out with my buddy because he’s out with his girflriend.”

While Renée reflected on this, I observed that, at the convention, it was clear that a number of the women present at the convention considered Xena and Gabrielle as models for their own loving relationships with other women. Renée cautioned that her perspective shouldn’t be taken as authoritative, merely because she played one of the characters, but she does understand the interpretation.

ROC: “I have to embrace that, because truly the lesbian community is still our most loyal following, definitely, after all these years. So if that’s what they want to see, absolutely, go for it, sure.”

WVM: “Is it flattering to be viewed this way by a community, that you’re telling their stories?”

ROC: “You know, I come at it from the other angle. I’m almost worried — and I’m not a worrisome person — but I worry about misrepresenting the community, because I don’t expect to be iconic. I can’t represent them in a way that is truly truthful, and so I don’t know that I should be the spokesperson. [That is to say, because she’s a straight woman in real life.]

I think people resonate with me personally because of the person I am. I care about the fans, I really do. I want them to be happy. I want them to feel like they can stand up and say, “I’m gay,” and be fulfilled in so many ways and never be discriminated against. That’s what’s important in what they see in me. I don’t want them to feel isolated or feel like they have to hide or feel ashamed. And I think the young girls feel that way because they don’t have anyone to talk to and they don’t know what to do. I have felt that in my life, and so I feel like I want to say to them, “You don’t have to do that, you can stand up and be who you are.”

WVM: “A lot of people identify very closely with Gabrielle’s spiritual journey.”

ROC: “I don’t know that she meant it to be a spiritual journey. I think she was trying to search for her individual way. There was an element to the spiritual quest there, but I don’t think it was isolated around spirituality. You know, there are just some people who feel incongruent, they have different aspects and they don’t line up. They feel conflicted. [Gabrielle] was in love with someone who was a warrior and was killing people, and yet Gabrielle wanted the life of a compassionate pacifist. So how does she do that? That was how I came at it.”

WVM: “I should probably use the word “meaning” rather than “spirituality.”

ROC: “Yes, yes, looking for meaning, sure.”

Left the link to the original source if you’d like to read the whole interview. I’ve just transcribed a small part of it. But isn’t it interesting though that Renee views the characters and the way they relate to each other in their friendship romantically but not sexually. I obviously perceive Xena and Gabrielle as a couple so I do think they have sex - it’s just not for us to see on-screen - but I do think they focus more so on the emotional and spiritual connection between them - which I do believe is what makes them an epic romance/love story as opposed to any other WLW ship that there is that is represented to be explicitly sexual.

Xena and Gabrielle really are a very special WLW ship in that you can either view them just as friends and completely platonically if you like… or not. At the end of the day what matters is the love they have is so real and deep and strong that it goes beyond sex and romance. It’s not just Renee that will tell you this out of the cast/crew of ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ regardless of how they personally perceive the characters and the nature of their relationship together. They all will. But I just think Renee is the best at explaining this because she really gets down to the core of who the characters are and how they relate to each other which is why I think she would agree with my thesis.

SOURCE: http://billmadison.blogspot.com/2010/09/interview-renee-oconnor.html?m=1

[animentality]

Maybe a hot take, but I think Durge is the real protagonist of BG3. Like... I'm sorry, everyone love their Tavs, but from a narrative point of view, it doesn't have fucking sense. It's just another guy (gender neutral) in a The Choosen One situation. I've read this story before, hundreds of times. But Durge's recepción (or disgrace)... now that has juice! That makes sense on a narrative level. You started it, you end it, one way or another.

Anyway, I'm never (with my +500 hours) going to play a Tav run. Ever. Origins only, mostly Durge. Durge and Durgetash are waaaaay better, sorry not sorry.

You are spitting nothing but facts, anon.

You wanna know what the HONEST to GOD fundamental problem is with the writing of Baldur's Gate 3?

It's that it spreads itself so thin, desperately attempting to write an open sandbox sort of world in which ANY kind of character can fit in...that it ends up being this hollow nothing.

IMAGINE if the Dark Urge WAS the default protagonist. It WOULD'VE BEEN an amazing story, if it had been given the focus it deserved, instead of just blankly repeating the SAME dialogue you'd get as a Tav and as an origin.

The idea of a former villain turned amnesiac, and going on an adventure, learning about themselves from the perspective of an outsider and seeing firsthand the horror they've wrought? It's like a fucking Zuko arc, except finding out you were the Big Bad all along could've been written even better than that...

We could've had that blank, nothing slate that Tavs start out as...and then find out, that it has thematic significance, because WE CHOOSE who we become, after a childhood/adulthood of being unable to make our own choices, and being forced into the role of the villain before the game even starts.

It's a MUCH BETTER WAY to give people a blank slate to work with, for the fun of roleplaying, but ALSO asserting a particular theme. Which is, the gravity of your choices, big and small. To do good or to embrace evil.

YOU KNOW. How Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 did being a Bhaalspawn.

IT'S ALSO A REALLY GREAT WAY to DO an RPG because yes, you slightly infringe upon the freedom of the customizable characters a person can make, but in exchange, you actually tell a fucking story where choices are the main theme.

INSTEAD. Because they were so dedicated to Tavs and the variety of ways you could play as a Tav...they completely undersell and underutilize what could've been a really amazing character.

You can literally choose to DIE for your friends in the end...and then what?

Withers brings you back in five seconds, no one has any real reaction to you doing that, except saying good job buddy :)

And then you're basically a Tav.

And ALSO. I want to say this, because it's been bothering me.

The Dark Urge has Tav syndrome too.

They have TWO notes in the entire game that we have to read into to try and glean a greater depth to their character other than murder hobo.

And that's it. They're a blank slate too.

If the Dark Urge was the protagonist, we might've been able to look into who they were before, outside of just laughably evil flesh eating monster.

They might've had real fucking depth, instead of just tidbits.

I and my fellow Dark Urge/ Durgetash enjoyers have to do the fucking work for them and write in stuff that isn't actually there. The Dark Urge as a protagonist could've been really meaningful. We could've seen inklings that they had misgivings about being Bhaal's Chosen. We could've seen scars of resistance, where they tried to defy Bhaal, but were punished with death, disintegration by the loving hands of your own father and flesh. We could've had betrayal, redemption, loyalty to one's blood family vs one's found family.

But we don't get that, because it's taking too much time away from Tavs.

Sometimes I really wish the Dark Urge wasn't even an option. They gave me this thing, and I thought wow this is the only way to play the game...and then I look and see, ah. But the potential for greatness could drive me absolutely insane.

And it has.

Durgetash is the product of my frustration with the game's characterization of the Dark Urge.

And I know I'm pissing off the salty BG3 fans who love their Tavs and all, and think the Dark Urge is lame, and god FORBID a protagonist have a character, can't have that in an RPG, but I can't find it in myself to care.

I'm built different than the rest of y'all. I don't just feed on content, I analyze its nutrients. I calculate how good for me it actually is.

And BG3 has wonderful mechanics.

But the story has so many problems, from beginning to rotten end.

And it is what it is. I still enjoyed myself playing it.

But the story isn't good for anything except allowing you to create a far more compelling story on your own, in fanfic or in original work inspired by it.

And I guess if that's all they wanted, then fine.

But goddamnit, I'm gonna complain anyway! Divinity 2 did it fucking better.

[velvetvexations]

I know "Buddy comes back as a Proper cleric of Helio who's going to work to change the church" was my own bullshit rooted in my issues with the presentation of Helio throughout Fantasy High, and that me having been convinced that was what was going to happen didn't mean it should have happened.

But like, man, out of all the missed potential with the Rat Grinders, even more than anything having to do with KLCK, who I love unconditionally, Buddy had to get it the worst. For his whole deal to ultimately just come down to "we're gonna slaughter you for our lord and savior Bacarath!" is such a massive disappointment. And I don't mean just because my exact scenario didn't come to pass, I mean it's hard to think of a way his presence in the show could have fallen flatter for me short of converting to Cassandra or Ankarna, which, like, at least that didn't happen, but his whole existence just feels pointless. I expected SOMETHING if not my dream Helio-reversal or any kind of redemption at all, some significance, some place in Kristen's arc, and like, no, just a minor joke villain.

Such a let down.

[markantonys]

You know, considering the show only fans' reaction to the Seanchean, if they do put Mat and Tuon together, they're gonna have to give her and them a LOT and I mean A LOT of character development. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Tuon shows up already with thoughts and doubts about slavery. Cause there's simply no way people are gonna be okay with it.

yeah i really do not envy them having to figure out what to do here, because EVERYTHING about mat/tuon and about tuon as a character is a giant landmine. (even just with casting, because the Head Slaver being a black woman is 🥴 especially if we then get scenes of her having to be told by a white man that slavery is bad. but if you DON'T cast a black actor as tuon then you've whitewashed a book-canonically black character. tuon's character design is the kinda thing where rj was trying to go for a ~boundary-breaking role reversal~ but it just really isn't a good look, and i don't envy the show having to deal with his choices there.)

anyway, i'm really hoping for tuon to be introduced at least a season or two before she meets mat so that she can have some development before they even cross paths, let alone begin having romance. (similar to how elayne, aviendha, and min were all developed through non-rand characters this season, which was a great choice.) one idea i'm quite fond of* is tuon showing up in nynaeve and elayne's storyline in s3 in an egeanin-esque role (tho not exactly equivalent ofc given tuon's and egeanin's differences in status/life situation/etc), so then she unknowingly befriends and comes to respect 2 ~marath'damane~, thus she has to start rethinking some things about seanchan culture when she finds out her new buddies can channel. and in s4 maybe she can have some kind of invented plotline to keep her development moving along, and s5 might be the time for her to first meet mat, and they can spend seasons 6 AND 7 together with the romance being a very slow burn. if the show just has tuon show up in ebou dar straightaway with the initial invasion rather than in a second wave after mat's storyline's been left out of an entire book, then she can meet mat sooner and they can leave sooner and have more time to spend together.

rj could have pulled off mat/tuon if he'd introduced her way sooner and had left enough time for their relationship to develop naturally and for HER to develop naturally, rather than breaking mat's characterization to cram him into a rushed relationship it makes no sense for him to want to be part of at this point in time. in WH it really does feel like rj was planning a whole meaty character development arc for tuon, but then realized between books that he wasn't gonna have enough time for it in the main series and came up with the idea of the outriggers spinoff, and in COT suddenly we have tuon being a completely static character and mat replaced by a pod person who's obsessed with her and has completely changed his views on slavery.

but the show has the benefit of knowing the endpoint already, so hopefully they're already planning for how to make the mat/tuon romance feel more believable. i think the only 2 options are a) introduce tuon way earlier and give her a proper redemption arc, or b) make it a political marriage which mat is putting up with for the greater good but has 0 romantic interest in tuon. because yeah, mat falling in love with an unrepentant slaver would make him absolutely vile in the eyes of all viewers, especially after how hard the show went on showing the vileness of the seanchan in s2. show viewers will not have forgotten the torture egwene suffered by the time mat meets tuon as easily as so many book readers apparently did.

*i'm also very fond of the idea of tuon being introduced in seanchan proper because i spent the whole series expecting us to see seanchan proper and the court of the 9 moons etc and felt SO robbed that we never did, so i'd loooooove if the show took us there and had tuon leading a plotline there before she leaves for the westlands. but purely in terms of getting her to start rethinking the damane system early on, this scenario wouldn't be as useful as the one of her meeting nynaeve and elayne in the westlands.

and finally, it's very interesting that they killed off every single notable seanchan character from s2. this could mean that they didn't want to leave any loose ends because the seanchan will be entirely absent for the next season or two, ooooooooooooor it could mean that they wanted to clear the stage for tuon to step up as our major seanchan character in the next season or two.

[hainethehero]

same anon as before: yes, I did read your whole post. a few times.

"I am aware he apologized." - ok I'm so glad you are! But you didn't make any mention whatsoever of that in your post. You could have said it as a quick parenthetical statement e.g. "In the past Ryan defended the use of racial slurs (although he later publicly apologised)".

your post leaves your readers with the impression that Ryan just made a bunch of racist statements, suffered zero repercussion, never apologised, and then, people can and will extrapolate from that - he probably continues to be racist to this day!

"I'm saying POCs have a right to still be upset about it because it shouldn't have been a thing in the first place???" - Great! my ask never said they don't!

"Where in my post did I say Ryan was irredeemable?" - where did I say in my ask that you said he's irredeemable??

You were very fair in pointing out that fandom has said other awful things about Ryan that are definitely not true.

But to completely leave out mention of his apology seemed deceptive and biased, as it's a crucially important fact that he actually listened to people around him, realised the weight of his actions, and publicly apologised. That makes all the difference in the situation.

That's why he still has fans on tumblr. They're not "excusing his racism", they're accepting his apology and trusting that he's learned, grown and changed.

Whereas, if we're going to discuss ljfr and tommy, I would argue ljfr has given some interview answers that sound uncomfortably like he's "excusing" tommy's racism, when he downplayed it as teasing/hazing (I forget the exact wording). Neutral question - did you happen to read his interview answers about tommy's attitude towards Hen? It's rather damning.

Also, the canon evidence you give of tommy having been redeemed is imo flimsy at best, and s7 could have done a lot more with tommy's limited screentime and dialogue to really show he's a different person to what he was in the past. I don't know what will happen in s8, I'm curious to see if tommy's characterisation changes or develops at all.

I just find it truly bizarre to act like it's logical and rational to defend and give the benefit of the doubt to a fictional character, which cannot be harmed or affected by hate, which does not exist outside a fictional story, or act other than according to what the script says, rather than do the same for a real life human being, who most assuredly CAN be harmed and affected by hate, who DOES exist and do things in the real world, who has an interior life unaffected by words in a script.

The point about Ryan has already been addressed. If fans have realized that he's apologized and have it in good faith that he's changed, then that's good. If fans are still hurt by his use of & defense of using slurs, they're allowed to be. That's not for you to decide.

Lou's interviews about Tommy's early times in the show were vague at best. The canon is CLEARLY insufficient but it's obvious why. Tommy's character wasn't really a mainstay. There were no deeper aspects to his character because he wasn't meant to stick around after s2. That's why there wasn't a whole ass redemption arc for him but rather a small montage. The point was to obviously show that both him and Hen and Chim reconciled their past and became good friends. If you & stans who think like you don't get that, then y'all are CHOOSING not to get it because it would be easier to have a reason to hate Tommy, rather than just hating him because he's with Buck. Honestly, it would be better if yall just admitted you hate him cos he's with Buck. No one would have a problem with that. But conflating issues and making them seem bigger than the show intended them to be to justify your hatred of Tommy just seems disingenuous.

If Tommy wasn't with Buck, y'all would NOT give a damn about this man's character I swear.

My whole original post was about toxic buddie stans virtue signaling and conflating the issue of racism as an excuse to justify their hatred of Tommy. And how those SAME stans are sending Lou death threats & hate to him- an actor who's just doing his job.

[bonefall]

Nature spirit Star flower? Bleeding Clear Sky dry eight times over? I am curious please explain more

Here's the general idea of it, this would all come after the end of BB!DOTC, which closes out with the aftermath of the First Battle and the naming of Windstar, Riverstar, Thunderstar, Shadowstar, and Skystar.

NOTE: You're basically about to read notes. This is not solidified yet. I have "Moments" I want to build towards, but they're loosely strung together. Fragments.

First off, Hollyleaf's Century gave us the intro to the Four Gods of this region.

They go by many names, but each is connected to a season. Sol, Midnight, Rock, and the man of the hour himself, One Eye, God of Summer.

One Eye was last seen possessing Lion's Roar. It's established that you need a certain number of violent, blood-based sacrifices to invoke him.

And, of course, he is drawn to the smell of death, the reek of rot in the summer's sun. The First Battle called him here, investigating the wonderful scent.

Star Flower is his 'daughter'. Natural objects of great value can manifest into beings of their own once destroyed, and Star Flower was an extinct, localized species of forest flower back at the Lake.

Still working out the exact rules of that, but it seems like nature spirits do have to be born somehow (like Broken to Yellow). One Eye found her in his travels and took her under his wing.

So anyway back to the arrival of One Eye in the Clans

(WIP STUFF, basically put a bunch of ???s past this point, this is plotting stuff.)

He is currently still possessing the body of Lion's Roar, an old and ragged thing. He's not fancy like Sol, who likes to travel around through time with its change powers.

One Eye took a shine to Clear Sky and his warmongering, infiltrating his group, and eventually making his nature known by eating Tom

He has a palette for violent people and accumulated evil. He will promise you 'revenge' to get at your enemy and make you into a delicious meal as well.

Skystar is NEVER getting a redemption arc in BB!DOTC, but he's not a moron either. He realizes that Sharptooth is practically trying to season him, and the horrifying death of Tom is what makes him work with the other Clans

to save his own giblets

Thunderstar Did Not Like That, but there's a bigger fish to fry

(Side note: One Eye was probably deified long ago for being the inventor of fire... vague cooking motif, perhaps?)

The Clans worked together to get rid of One Eye. It's important that the person who landed the final blow was a Tribe-born cat-- probably Sun Shadow.

One Eye vows revenge on his killer's homeland as he dies... not realizing that Sun Shadow was not born here, he was born at the tribe.

(May shuffle this moment to later, you'll see why in a moment)

Star Flower at this moment begins her own work, buddying up close to Skystar, getting close to him so she can stab him in the back

And she does! She drags him to the place where One Eye was buried, and bleeds him slowly, exploiting his 9 lives with a horrible magic loophole;

If he dies of blood loss, StarClan heals THAT, not any of the tiny injuries she's put on his body.

So he's letting out 8x the blood of a normal cat.

But before he can die for the last time, she is interrupted, probably by Thunderstar

She offers him this; "Go on! Take the last sacrifice! One Eye will be grateful to you. You'll get what you want, have your revenge, and Skystar will never threaten you or your family ever again."

Seeing Skystar, pitiful, bloody, and helpless, he refuses this. This wouldn't be honorable. To kill to win his feud is not justice; it's revenge.

(Here's when I was thinking of shuffling that earlier Sun Shadow moment to, have the resurrection be incomplete and have a final fight of partially-summoned One Eye. Angrily lays that curse for having his plan thwarted. Boss fight against half-fossilized cave lion.)

After this, I'm not sure what to do with Star Flower. She just killed Skystar 8 times, so, SkyClan isn't going to take her back.

I could have her be wandering, a loner or rogue who is just part of the background now. Maybe I don't need to wrap it all up here just yet.

So, there you have it! This is pretty rough but it's where I'm at with her.

Since this is post-main arc DOTC, it may make for a very good redux of Thunderstar's Echo. Maybe Thunderstar's Justice? Something like that. Make the central conceit be Thunderstar vs Skystar, wrapping up their arc from the main series.

[princess-of-the-corner]

The Redemption Arc Seating Chart

So, uh, my friend has started something she calls “The Redemption Arc Seating Chart”? Almost like a tier list (But not really)? Anyway, she says she needs more ideas for “tables”, so, I guess if anyone has any ideas, shoot them out?

“Tables” she already named:

Honoured Rival Table - you used to hate the main characters guts, and honestly, you still do. But respect has come to outweigh hatred or loathing, and if anyone else tried to hurt them, you’d most likely go a little feral. Like, you probably would still stab the main character in the gut if given half the chance, but only in an already established fight. Sometimes people “mistake” you for a friend of the MC, which you deny vehemently. You aren’t friends. Your bond goes far beyond the trappings of mere friendship. Only you can beat the MC.

True Companions Table - you have turned your life around so much, the main characters consider you a friend now. No matter where you started, you have realized the error of your ways and come around to the side of the protagonists. You’d easily take a bullet for each other, and probably have. You probably feel awful about your past deeds, and have some self-sacrificial tendencies because you feel it might be the only way to make up for what you did. Overcoming your guilt is most likely a big part of your character arc. Adjacent is the “Enemies to Lovers” Table.

Study Group Table - so, turns out you were seriously misinformed about something when you went up against the protagonist. Maybe a bad guy promised you something, or maybe you didn’t have all the facts, maybe you were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, but you have done some pretty awful things for reasons you have since learned were motivated by false information. Upon learning this, you’ve struggled to learn the truth of things, and now you work hard to make sure you aren’t tricked again.

Former Bully Table - You … weren’t ever really a “villain” in the strictest sense of the word. You were just kind of a dick, going through some shit, and coping by trying to make someone else’s life hell. Then the plot kicked off, and you got a massive dose of reality. These days, you and the protagonist aren’t really “friends”, but you’ve both moved on from squabbling with each other. They have bigger fish to fry than you, and you’ve found other things to do with your time.

Project Partners/Coworkers Table - You were very much a villain, but teamed up with the protagonist because you had a mutual enemy. This team up lasted long enough that you realized working for the other side sucked, and working for the protagonist actually isn’t bad. You have benefits now and shit. Like, you and the protag might not be buddy-buddy anytime soon, but you’ll shoot the shit at the water cooler, and help each other out to get work done on time.

Expelled Table - so, you tried real hard to turn your life around - really, you did! You even made some pretty serious progress! People were starting to think you could change. So were you, to be honest. But … well, maybe it wasn’t the right time. Maybe you backslid too far. Heck, maybe someone tricked you. But the fact remains, you ended up back on the path you started on, and nothing anyone says right now will convince you to try again. 

And, of course, my friend’s personal favourite:

Why Are You Sitting Here? - no, seriously, why are you sitting over here? You did a bunch of awful things, then did a complete 180 … why, exactly? Did you ever tell us your reason for suddenly deciding you weren’t going to murder people? Was that ever communicated? Wait, why are you trusting them!? Yeah, they saved our lives here, but they previously tried to kill us multiple times, are we just forgetting that because they decided not to shoot us? Hey, why are you moving to the Friends Table!? And as for you … you were a villain? When? What exactly did you do? Why do you need a redemption arc?

If anyone has any other ideas for “Tables”, feel free to share them!

-

Fucking beautiful.