#who support Israel

[ibtisams]

When Palestinian’s say “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free,” they are not calling for the ethnic cleansing of Israeli Jews/all Jewish people entirely. They are just asking for decolonisation.

Between the river (the Jordan River) and the sea (the Mediterranean Sea) lies Palestine, which has been occupied by Israel for the past 75 years. When they say Palestine will be free, they mean exactly that- for decolonisation; to end the illegal occupation of land that was theirs first.

I don’t know where the idea that this motto means genocide or is a “rallying cry for terrorists” came from, but all sources I have seen that spread this message are all pro-Israel and have unreliable propaganda filled articles. There is one article specifically that says that the Palestine flag emoji is used as shorthand for this phrase, and using it is antisemitic.

I hope people keep using this motto, keep chanting it at protests, and know that it does not making them antisemitic, pro-genocide, or an ignorant person. For it to not be obvious at this point that no Palestinian wants an ethnic cleansing of any kind, is shocking.

decolonizepalestine has an amazing article with more details about the history of the phrase and the myths surrounding it.

[charleneeeee]

This is exactly what we’re trying to say.

You can’t make your home at the expense of someone else’s.

You can’t make a life from someone else’s.

You can’t make life from another person’s loss.

And you especially can’t take someone else’s safe haven and decide it’s yours.

Palestine has every right to fight back after being kicked for 75 years and 4 months. They have every right to take back what belongs to them and expel anyone who doesn’t want to give back what belongs to the Palestinians.

[thecatspasta]

Today I was talking to someone and Palestine came up and their response to it was 'Not my country, not my problem'

So let me just spell it out for you

It is your problem when you willfully ignore people telling you about Palestinians being slaughtered

It is your problem when you buy and support companies that are actively aiding in the genocide

It is your problem when you stand by, knowing full well that people are being killed in the thousands and deciding to let it happen

Do not stay quiet and be complacent in genocide. Do not ignore this, it is happening now. From river to sea, palestine will be free

[bitegore]

Zionists want you to conflate Judaism and Zionism. Zionists want you to believe that Judaism cannot exist without Zionism and that all Jews are Zionists. Zionism would have Jews believe that a Jewish state is the only way that they can be safe from antisemitism and will point to any instance of antisemitism as proof that Zionism is the solution- so Zionism wants gentiles to be antisemitic in their support of Palestine. They want you to conflate all Jews with Zionism and the state of Israel, and they want you to treat all Jews regardless of political affiliation as the face of Israel. Antizionist Jews exist, and incidences of antisemitism ostensibly acting against Zionism will not help dismantle the forces propping Zionism up.

Don't do their work for them.

[leahthedreamer]

Over 1000 people murdered because Israel bombed a HOSPITAL and proceeded to defend it by first lying and saying it was a Hamas misfire and then secondly outright admitting that they told them to evacuate then continued to destroy it anyway yet the media and stupid fucks online will insist this is a “war on both sides.”

[mssi]

“A genocide and holocaust is unfolding in Gaza before the eyes of the world.”

—Al Jazeera reporter Wael Dahdouh

[jewelleria]

I know it's not how you rationalize it to yourself, but your posts about Israel/palestine come off as a support of the destruction of Gaza and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. Insisting that it's a war (Palestine isn't allowed to have an army, and Israel cannot claim self-defence against a territory they occupy), denying that Israel is at fault, obscuring support of Palestine in general as being motivated by antisemitism - it paints a picture.

At least 30 000, probably closer to 100 000 Palestinians have been killed as of now. That is so monumentally worse than anything currently happening to Israel / zionists. So when you spend most of your energy focusing on those wrongs, or insisting that people talking about Palestine should focus on them, it comes off as brushing it off or trying to diminish its importance.

You don't have to answer, as I'll be blocking you, but I'm asking you to please consider what you're willing to support, excuse or tone down, and why. I know what it's like to be too focused on the discrimination we're facing to really take in what other groups might be going through.

hey anon, that's some great useful idiot syndrome you got there. how much college debt did you go into to earn it?

[ymustutortureme]

I genuinely feel like this isn't said enough. So I'm gonna say it.

To everyone Zionist out there, every pro-genocide, pro-israel bigot, from the bottom of my heart, from the depths of my soul:

Fuck you.

[unexplained-events]

This blogs agenda is so obvious.

Yeah I really hope my disdain for ethnic cleansing, genocide, Zionism and war crimes comes through strong. I wouldn't want anyone to think otherwise

[cyanide-sippy-cup]

Hamas attacks in retaliation, Israel is made out to be the victim. Israel attacks Sudan, Yemen, and we either don't talk about it or claim it was Hamas. Now Israel fires weapons into Iran and when they fire back, it's considered an aggressive and violent attack against the Israeli people.

Biden is dragging his citizens headlong into a war we should have no part in to support a country who does not care about collateral. He promised debt relief, gender care, pay increases, and we have seen NO positives on any of those fronts all while he desperately pours resources into supplying the murder of innocent Arabs.

You who support this war hate the Arab people, you're all just too much of pussies to admit it. So you hide behind these excuses. "Oh, Israel's just defending itself. Oh, that was someone else". You wish for the death of all the Arabs without any of the social repercussions of actually admitting that, so you claim anyone who wishes for the killing to stop is actually antisemitic and "wants to kill all the Jews".

Palestine will be free and the Israeli government will face punishment for the crimes they have perpetrated.

[iamnmbr3]

Amazing to me how many violence loving bigots are trying to act like their fetish for the brutalization of innocents is somehow progressive or in support of any cause.

Equating a brutal group of terrorists with all Palestinians is bigoted and untrue. Saying Hamas's tactics are acceptable since Palestinians just can't help committing war crimes because they are incapable of not brutalizing old women and children is bigoted and untrue. Saying it's ok to rape and torture people to death as long as they're Jews is bigoted and untrue.

Hamas stands for nothing. They are a hate group. Just like their supporters.

[redvelvetwishtree]

[lordadmiralfarsight]

Revolution fetishism is a horrible political view, especially in this context

Okay, rant incoming, partially related to recent events, but also to earlier thinking on my part.

There are, on the Left, a fair few people that romanticize or outright fetishize the concept of Revolution, of violent popular uprising to wrest power out of the hands of a corrupt elite and give it to the people. Very romantic, very righteous (self-righteous pretty often), very good and nice and sexy. And by the grace of revolutionary fervor and ideological purity, everything will be better after.

Except no.

See, a lot of this romanticization of Revolution comes, to my knowledge, from my own country of France. We have romanticized our Revolution a fair bit, and honestly, looking at the first part, fair. A serious go at giving women rights, a no-cause divorce, abolition of slavery, privileges thrown out, equality between people proclaimed loud, enfranchisement given to minorities ... in 1789. A LOT of good and progress, especially for the time.

But then it got fucky, VERY fucky. The Reign of Terror, under the caring leadership of Maximilien Robespierre, was a fucking nightmare on Earth, caracterized by mass executions on political basis, and by this I mean anyone that opposed Robespierre got beheaded. Political plurality? You mean anti-revolutionary sentiment ! Unacceptable, kill everyone.

A rumor of the time said the Place de Grève was covered in a layer of blood that was ankle deep. Is that an exageration ? Yes, certainly. But the fact it got to that point should tell you something about how intense the murdering was. And that was just one square in Paris, there was the rest of the country to consider too.

But surely, after Robespierre fell victim to his own system and was executed, something better emerged, right?

No. Sweet mother of fuck, NO.

What followed was roughly 70 years of political instability and violence, warfare and civil war, several dictatorships, including attempts to restore absolute monarchy, that undid most of the good brought by the first part of the Revolution. And finally, France stumbled onto political stability in 1870 when the temporary 3rd Republic, that was supposed to wait until the presumptive heir to the throne (who wanted an absolute monarchy) croacked did what temporary things do best and became the permanent system (until its fall).

This was not thanks to the Revolution. It was pure randomness.

Did the French Revolution bring good things? Yes, it did. In its first part. The second part brought chaos and misery for multiple decades. And it took a lot of work and efforts to bring back what the Revolution, the peaceful part, had brought in.

And far too many people on the Left fetishize and romanticize the whole thing, as if we couldn't have had the first part without the second, as if the progress and hope and betterment somehow needed the chaos and murder that came after.

Yes, there would have been a period of conflict, European monarchies would not have accepted quietly a realm the size of France doing away with monarchs. But did we REALLY need the political purges ? Did we REALLY need the paranoia ? Did we REALLY need the massacres ?

But you will find people that answer yes, and say the spilled blood somehow made it pure, or good. And those same people are looking at what Hamas is doing and are cheering. These people don't celebrate the first part, the progress and hope. They claim to be, but they aren't. They celebrate the Terror. They yearn for the unjust "popular tribunal" AKA mob "justice". They dream of executing political opponents or anyone they think is "bad" on light or even absent charges.

And That's why they cheer for Hamas rockets and massacres. That's why they sing when Israeli children are murdered. That's why they attack Jews that don't live in Israel. Because they hope to vicariously live this period of unchecked violence.

Know who was celebrating the RIGHT part of the Revolution ? The Israeli working with Gazan to build understanding. The Gazan protesting against Hamas. The Israeli Arabs risking their lives to save the lives of fellow Israeli and of foreigners, regardless of skin or creed. The Gazan trying to improve things in their homes against the wishes and efforts of Hamas.

Know who IS celebrating the RIGHY part of the Revolution ? The Israeli protesting the way the IDF is bombing Gaza. The people decrying the hypocrisy of blood-thirsty leftists. The people calling for Peace and working to make the political change to allow it.

But the Robespierres of the time, drunk on their own self-assurance, condemn and insult them, claiming that blood must be spilt. But it doesn't have to be. The French Revolution started relatively bloodlessly. It didn't need some great orgy of violence. Oh it wasn't clean, but it was far cleaner than the armchair Robespierres would like it to be. Because it didn't need to be.

And that's my point, really. The people fantasizing about and fetishizing the Revolution always dream of torrents of blood washing away the injustices, of seas of corpses forming a fertile ground upon which progress can grow. But that horseshit. All you get with that is, like the Place de Grève, a sinister place that stinks of rot and death, and flocks of scavengers gorging on your crimes.

All you get is a chance for a Napoleon to arrive. Or Stalin's USSR that so casually carried on with the crimes of the Tsars. Or Polpot who murdered 25% of his population.

If you look at the French Revolution, the right lesson to learn is that you need to know when to stop, and that's before you get to indiscriminate killing. Because once you get to that point ... people that thrive in those settings get in power and perpetuate them.

And to apply that to the situation in I/P ... knowing when to stop means realizing that Israeli are still humans, that Gazan are still humans, that their lives have worth and should be protected, that supporting child killings when it's done by "brown people" is not anymore alright than supporting child killings when done by the IDF. And you people should very well consider the possibility that people inside the IDF are doing all they can to reduce Bibi's ability to order war crimes.

And you should recognize that there are efforts on the part of the IDF, sometimes token efforts, sometimes more than just that, to limit the number of dead civilians. Point me to a case where Hamas did the same. Point me to a case where they tried to get Israeli civilians out of the way instead of targeting them.

Hamas is not a Revolution you want to succeed. It's not about being free. It's about killing. This isn't a "glorious revolutionary action", it's a prelude to the wholesale slaughter and ethnic massacre they dream of. It's a tiny window into their ideal, blood soaked world.

Violent revolution should be a last resort, when there is no other option available, when the system is so utterly broken and shattered that nothing can move, and it should be stopped as soon as the system is unfucked enough to negociate. The I/P situation is not at that stage. Look at how much efforts the fascists of both sides have to invest in maintaining this. Look at how much time and money and efforts they have to invest to keep each other in place. And despite this, people of both sides reach for peace, argue and protest for it, even at the risk of their very lives (especially true in Gaza).

And if you refuse to consider all this, if you insist on following Robespierre, remember this : La Veuve came for him too, in the end.

[stil-lindigo]

do you know if demanding a ceasfire is within ICJ means? i'm not trying to like, idk, defend them or anything, i'm just genuinely curious if they could have actually demanded that, and failed to do so, or if that was never going to be an option

literally speaking? yes, of course it was possible for the ICJ to demand a ceasefire. The South African legal team put up a truly bulletproof case - they would not have asked for a ceasefire if it was not an actual option. Practically speaking? Calling for a ceasefire would've opened up the ICJ to a lot of flack from all the fanatics still moaning about Israel's "right to defend itself". By asking Israel to simply assure protections for Palestinian civilians (which nobody could contest without outwardly seeming like a psychopath), they're trying to walk a safer path.

In doing so however, they've assured that for the next month, Palestinians will most likely undergo the worst barrage of bombing and attacks yet, until Israel has to report back to the ICJ (if they decide to).

[incorrect-riordanverse]

the problem with all these white authors like rick riordan who are revealing their stances on the israel-palestine apartheid is that they barely do anything but virtue signal when they claim “i’m on the side against war” “i’m anti-violence” “i abhor terrorism.” zero people are going to disagree with you. zero people believe what hamas did is justified. zero people think israel shouldn’t have a right to defend itself against terrorism. but that isn’t what israel is doing when they collectively punish all of palestine, who doesn’t even have an official army. when rick riordan says some wishy-washy bullshit about the violence suffered on both sides of the conflict, and words his whole dumbass blog post like it’s violence that is in any way equal, that literally helps no one. in fact, it’s so damn negligent of the 75 years of violence that palestine has suffered and been oppressed for. yes, there are innocent civilians in israel who are suffering, no one is disagreeing with you. that doesn’t erase the fact that israel is a disgusting state that has used state-sanctioned violence on a systemic scale since its conception, and the oppressed people have responded to that in violent retaliation (because OBVIOUSLY they would). israel is built on the subjugation of palestine, there is no equal suffering between the two.

[edenfenixblogs]

Reminder! But be aware that many Jews use the term Zionist/Zionism in a way that you do not understand it/are not familiar with! Many Jewish people who you would define as Zionists and/or people who have all the same politics as you may:

1. Call themselves Zionists because it is a term with deeply individual meanings for many Jews

2. Not call themselves Zionists, but bristle at hearing the term “Zionist” be used as a pejorative because the history of the word Zionist being used as an antisemitic dogwhistle in leftism, communist Russia, and Arab extremist organizations (and because I am Jewish and on the internet I will state explicitly that no, of course I do not think all Arabs are extremists. I do not think all Muslims are extremists. I do not tolerate Islamophobia in any way on my blog or in real life. If I see a single even somewhat questionable instance of maybe Islamophobia in any replies here, you will be blocked and reported. I am taking the time to educate about Zionism as a dogwhistle, because I have chosen to tolerate a certain amount of feedback as a Jewish person. I am neither Arab nor Muslim so it is not my place to extend an olive branch of understanding regarding Islamophobia to you nor do I have any interest in doing so. I wholeheartedly condemn anti-Arab and Islamophobic hatred. As we all should)

3. Actively call themselves anti-Zionists because they define the term Zionism in a way that includes occupation, genocide, and expulsion

4. Actively call themselves anti-Zionists but still believe that Jewish people as an ethnoreligous group are inherently indigenous to the lands around Jerusalem while ALSO considering Palestinians to be indigenous to that same land.

5. Actively call themselves anti-Zionists because they oppose the formation of any religious state whatsoever, but still believe that Jews deserve to reside where they are right now without forced expulsion.

For non-Jewish people using the term anti-Zionism, I urge you to really think about what Zionism actually means to you as a term. Like what do you think that word is? What kind of person do you think a Zionist is? What assumptions are you making in the use of that term and is it fair to expect every Jewish person to agree with that definition and why do you feel that way?

And before anyone comments on me or makes assumptions about my stance.

I do not call myself a Zionist!

I deeply oppose the current government of Israel. I had the opportunity to go on a birthright trip to Israel, and declined to go because I do not support the subjugation of Palestinians. I also chose not to go, because at the time there was a spate of bus bombings. I have family in Israel that I have never met and cannot meet because I refuse to go there out of both personal fear AND political unrest AND political/moral opposition.

I support sovereignty and equal rights and liberation and self determination for all Palestinians. I believe Palestinians are indigenous to the land.

I also believe Jewish people are indigenous to the land. Since Hadrian’s expulsion of the Jewish people from Israel/Judea in 135 and the resultant formation of Syria Palestina, there has been no place that Jews have existed that has considered them foundational parts of society or that has not expelled us. We have always been considered settlers. There is no other place in which we could even conceivably BE indigenous besides the levant. I believe that the “whiteness” of modern Jews of European descent is a product of millennia of expulsion, resettlement, and relocation. I know for a fact that PoC Jews have also REMAINED in the region since the expulsion in 135 and if they’re not indigenous to there, then who on earth is?

I believe that indigeneity does not expire. I believe that the fact that Jews sing daily prayers about their history in Israel/the levant is pretty strong evidence that Jews all over the world have never lost their connection to the region. I believe that two thousand years is a long time.

I believe that it could not matter less whether Jews or Palestinians were there “first.” What matters is the strong cultural ties BOTH cultures have to the levant. What matters is that civilians have a safe government that they can trust not to commit genocide against them. To expel them from the land of their ancestors. To banish them to settlements.

I believe colonialism is wrong. I believe imperialism is wrong. I believe there’s even more I need to learn even after living in this conflict and diaspora my entire life. I do not believe that the land that exists there right now needs to be called Israel. I only believe that there needs to be safeguards in place at a governmental level that explicitly protects the sovereignty, safety, and legitimacy of Palestinians and the Jews who live there. There must be guardrails to prevent genocide against both groups. There must be some formal institutional mechanism to ensure the safety of both parties.

I believe that none of these ideas are in conflict with one another.

Anyone telling you that the solution is straightforward is lying or has plans to harm a large number of people. You are not special. You did not invent the perfect idea that no one thought of that magically solves the issues of statelessness, fear of displacement, expulsion, or genocide. If your plan only involves helping one group without regard to the needs of the other, it is a bad plan. If you don’t believe that Jews should be expelled from Israel, is that Zionism? If you believe Jews should have self determination and representation within government that protects their interests, is that Zionism? Even if the same self determination and representation exists for Palestinians? If you are a hardcore anti-Zionist and believe that Jews do not belong in i/p at all, where do the Jews go?

Where are the Jews indigenous to that isn’t Israel? Where do they go. Europe doesn’t want us. The rest of SWANA doesn’t want us. We certainly are not indigenous to the Americas. It’s been awhile since there were expulsions from Asia (as far as I know), but they did happen there. And Asian countries have very rich indigenous histories of their own that we have no place in. The United States is increasingly violent to us and is certainly nobody’s idea of a Jewish homeland.

If your argument against Zionism is that Jews don’t belong there, where do we belong? If your argument against Zionism is that Jews don’t deserve to ever leave diaspora and should not have self determination or protection, why not us too? Again, I have no desire to go to Israel!!! I have actively rejected offers to visit Israel!!!

I don’t call this set of beliefs Zionism. I don’t believe there is a term for this set of beliefs. But someone else might disagree. And that’s the point. I’m not shaming anyone who does or does not call themselves a Zionist.