#you can take this and apply it to any of the feanorians really

[stitcherofchaos]

A Defense of Maglor

Maglor is my favorite character in the Silmarillion. I know there are people out there who loathe him and there are people out there who love him. I know he murdered, that is a fact. There is also the undeniable fact that he chose to take the oath and burn the ships. There is the fact that he was deathly loyal towards his family.

But I have to say this...

Whoever says that he turned around and became self righteous or delusional, clearly didn't read The Silmarillion as how it ought to be read. These are pretty darn bold words but the reason I like Maglor's character is because of two things.

1: He is fictional. I think if you use his name alone, you can misconstrued him subconsciously into a real life person (but I am going to use his name because saying ‘Maglor’s character over and over drives me nuts) the point is, this essay is about CHARACTER not a real person.

2. He raised Elrond into the elf we see/read in The Lord of The Rings. I'm pretty sure if Elrond was abused in any way by him, he would not be the same great elf lord. Not to mention Elros was a mighty and gentle king, as if I don't know who THAT'S reflecting.

3. He was the only son of Feanor to throw away a silmaril, and regret sorrowfully (now tell me if he is so 'self righteous' or 'delusional', why is he so sorrowful and regretful canonically?)

I had to say these things because Maglor hate makes me physically nauseous (and for pete's sake, I'm exaggerating). Now, you may think I am a hypocrite for taking one's perspective alone on a character so seriously. But I am a self made writer myself; I am not trying to force my opinion on anyone. But when someone misunderstands a character from how they themselves view them instead of seeing the character the the author intended to write, that bugs me greatly.

And yeah yeah, there are people out there who just don’t care and writer whatever that heck they want due to their fanon ideas….

Why don’t you go and write about your own character from those ideas and create your own story instead of leeching off from a famous author?

I like Maglor because the way Tolkien rewrote several drafts of the silmarillion to create characters into the way he saw them.

Maglor is not perfect, he is morally ambiguous at best and evil at worst, but who was the one who saw the Star of Earendil and had hope? The fact that he's not a perfect character or the 'good' or 'nice' son of Feanor is the reason I like him so much. Tolkien did say he inherited his mother’s more gentle temperament. Again, an ignored fact in canon.

At least I am not one of the greater hypocrites who gives his good traits to Maedhros and Maedhros's bad traits to Maglor. Is it because Maedhros is hot? You can be honest with yourselves. Everyone wants to find excuses for the handsome ones.

I don't find excuses for Maglor. Whether anyone in this site wants to admit it or not, finding excuses for a morally ambiguous character is a toxic trait. It is not a healthy way to go through life.

That being said…

Who has ever thought of the idea that Maglor's soul was ripped apart when he realized he was the enemy all along?

Tolkien was a Catholic first and foremost. I believe that when he wrote that Maglor could not withstand the pain of the silmaril, he meant the great spiritual pain of his soul being torn apart by the guilt and regret.

((I also have a headcanon that his body became a husk afterward and did eventually fade, it was like in a catatonic state where he could only walk and sing. Also, that you can hear his voice along the cliff sides or caverns of the beaches, he was known as the mighty singer, it's not because he's still around, but because of the eternal echoes that still haunt the beaches.) I like solid explanations before anything too abstract.)

Also, another thing. Who the heck thinks they themselves are self righteous enough to decide whether to forgive the feanorians or not? They are FICTIONAL. And besides, that's the Teleri's job. If someone asked me whether or not I would look Maglor in the eyes and forgive him. I would tell that person that I had no right because it was not my business. Some people hate Maglor/the feanorians so much to the point where you would wonder if they actually believe that they were personally effect by the feanorians. If you’re one of those people, please either get some therapy or touch some grass (I’m trying to be as gentle as possible so forgive me if I offended you).

The reason I like Maglor, it's actually a pretty deep and personal reason. But, who cares, it's not like he's real or that anyone else on this site cares about self preservation or privacy.

I read the Silmarillion during a darkplace in my life. So when I read about a character who was loyal, merciful, imperfect, ruthless, and regretful... I admired him. Someone who gave up his morals to protect and serve his family, that is admirable. Though his loyalty should have been with his morals, it was still fierce and bright like any son of feanor, or any more so than any of his brothers.

I like him, because he taught me what you should do in times of hardship and crisis and what you should not do, which is basically what I was going through during that time, and even now. That is, despite circumstances, remain hardy and stick to your morals because doing so will give you a prosperous ‘harvest’. Stay close to your family with loyalty and charity, but be wary of the family members who use or manipulate you, get out of that kind of situation. Like imagine you have a ‘Fëanor’ parent. Would you rather live with him or your ‘Nerdanel’ parent? Make a better choice than the choose of those seven brothers. They chose wrong and it lead to their deaths.

Tolkien wrote stories to create, and to teach. I don't see why I should ignore these values instead of appreciating and learning from them. It's the reason why I prefer to look at Maglor's character and learn from him rather than hate or search for reasons to hate him.

[undercat-overdog]

I prefer the Silmarillion version of Amrod’s death, and I’m also not a fan of slightly crispy Amrod either. I think the Shibboleth version of Losgar exculpates the Feanorians (and thus makes Maedhros not special in his refusal, and takes away the russingon feels if you’re into that), lessens the power of the Oath, and doesn’t fit timeline-wise in the arc of the overall story.

1. It lessens the collective culpability of the Feanorians. Now it’s just a couple of people who are responsible for burning works of art and abandoning their fellows, not something shared by the entire host (save Maedhros).

2. The Shibboleth version devalues Maedhros’s decision in standing aside alone - he doesn’t even have the opportunity to stand aside: it seems he wouldn’t know what’s happening. Sure, in the Silm version, his - very public! - decision to not participate doesn’t seem sufficient to us, but it is A Big Deal in his culture: Feanor is not just his father but the political leader to whom he owes loyalty. In this version, where Maedhros didn’t even know about the ships being burnt until it had already started, there’s no declaration of regard for Fingon nor his courage in standing up to Feanor. (Also, while I don’t have any russingon feels myself - used to, spent time in fandom, another story - it’s a big russingon moment that Maedhros makes a very public stand out of his regard for Fingon, the one time he takes on (political) danger for Fingon, and the Shib does way with that.)

3. (this does not apply to partially crispy Amrod) It means one Feanorian does not die because of his Oath - in fact, it means one Feanorian breaks the Oath, and thus lessens the Oath’s power in the story. (And on this note, while it does make the non-Curufin Feanorians not culpable in the burning of the ships, it makes their later decision to not try to break the Oath worse, given that they know someone who swore it can choose to go back. If Amrod tries to turn back and succeeds in turning back (though he dies before he gets anywhere), I don’t think it’s possible to read the Oath as inviolable. I personally am fine with this one, but I don’t read the Oath as unbreakable and compulsive. But if you want Maedhros, etc, to have no choice, an Amrod that turns back doesn’t square with that imo.

4. It happens too soon in the story. This stage in the Silmarillion is where things are going well. The Feanorians drive Morgoth’s forces back from Himlad deep into Ard-Galen (and the Siege of the Falas is broken). There’s a couple versions of the Dagor-nuin-Giliath, but in all it’s a solid victory for the Elves. Light returns, the Moon and the Sun rise; shortly after, Maedhros is rescued. This part of the story is an upswing, and Amrod’s death imo interrupts this and the story arc is lessened.

5. Others can discuss Feanor’s characterization; I have no particular thoughts on that. However, and related to the above: this tragedy happens too soon for Feanor’s story and role in the broader plot. I think it works better before things start going really wrong: he dies before he sees the what the Oath will lead to. He starts it all, and then...

6. It doesn’t happen in the published version of the Silmarillion. Yeah, this is a reason for me. I don’t always stick to the Silm itself, but I do give it more weight because it is the text of the fandom: it’s the one people read first - it may be the only book people read, either because of preference or ability to find the others; it’s a cohesive and comprehensive narrative and I do think there should be some “base” text. This is honestly a personal preference and others can disagree, but I do view the Silm as having slightly more weight than the other sources.

[tolkien-feels]

Feanorian Week Day 4: Caranthir

Over halfway through the week already, so I'm pretty sure you know the deal - a random headcanon per prompt under the cut

Today I also bring you hints of other headcanons - keep reading for my Maglor & Caranthir agenda, which Feanorian takes after which relative, and also... thoughts on Curufin's wife?? ADHD is wild

Childhood

When Caranthir is what we would call roughly preschool-aged, he's not the best at regulating his emotions. When he's upset, he unconsciously underreacts, and other than being unusually quiet, he shows very little outward signs of how he's feeling, so it's pretty hard to spot he's unhappy. On the off-chance he's asked, he will say he's fine, and he really does think that and will get angry if he's not believed. But after some time of repeated occurrences of this, something extremely minor will happen - say, the family is going out but he wants to stay home - and it's the straw that breaks the camel's back, and suddenly he's crying and crying and crying over everything he's accidentally bottled up. He looks positively miserable, takes forever to calm down, can't really verbalize or even understand why he's so upset, and if you don't handle the situation with empathy and tact, he'll get angry on top of everything else. Oh, and if you don't give him space to work through this, he may or may not start hitting. Have fun! (And not to get back on my Maglor Is Caranthir's Favorite Brother Agenda but Maglor is the best at handling this. Ask me why one of these days :D)

Betrayal 

It's not that Caranthir likes the sons of Fingolfin, but they at least are clearly Noldor, maybe even Finweans. They have the right look and, more importantly, they act the right way, as far as it's possible for the children of a guy who, as far as Caranthir is concerned, is Finwe's bastard. But the children of Finarfin are ¼ Noldor. ¼! They're culturally Teleri and they look like their Vanya grandmother. In what world should they have the same claim to being Finwe's descendants as Caranthir does!!! They cannot possibly be expected to protect Noldorin interests, because they're Noldor on a technicality. They should absolutely work twice, three times as hard to prove themselves trustworthy, and even then, Caranthir wouldn't really trust them to not switch allegiances.

Lordship 

Caranthir has never, even once in his life, thought he would be lord of anything. He's the fourth son of a king's son. Five immortals would have to die in the undying lands for him to come to any real power. It's only when Maglor becomes king that Caranthir quickly tries to learn the ins and outs of governing anything. He lets Maglor wrestle with the hardest questions, and applies himself to learning the boring details of logistics and how to keep their people alive not by fighting orcs (that's for Maglor) but by keeping them fed and clothed. This will greatly inform his approach to power once he has his own lands. Yes, he can do everything his brothers do. He's a good strategist - not as good as Maedhros, maybe, but he's good. But he's a master of logistics at that point, and that's what he falls back on every time. He's not avoiding his family (well, not most of the time) as much as he's doing what he's always done - making sure he's doing the boring job of gathering resources to allow his brothers the freedom to do what they do best.

Dwarves & Humans 

Caranthir's relationship with dwarves can be... complicated. Insofar as they're doing business or trading knowledge, things are fine. Nobody is having fun but they get what they want from each other. It's when something approaching real connection happens that things go bad. Specifically, the conversation of a Noldo from Valinor and a dwarf tend to flow towards Aule. Why, having dwelt with Mahal himself, is Caranthir no smith? (Only some Noldor are smiths. His father was one.) Oh, is his father disappointed that he's forsaken the family pride? (No.) Does Caranthir not have a smith brother they can trade with? It's impossible to trade with one who's refused the gift of Mahal. (Between the two of them, who is it that is calling Aule by the wrong name, and who is it that has talked to him as a friend rather than guessing at religious superstitions?) And yet, Caranthir has refused Mahal's instructions and has to buy the wealth he craves.

Let's say a mutual agreement is reached that the less they know of each other, the better. Business partnership is Superior to friendship in this case, by a whole lot.

Marriage 

I........ consistently forget Caranthir is married.... So I will sidestep this issue and talk about something that's so random I do need a prompt to have any reason to talk about it. Curufin's wife has a favorite brother-in-law, and it's Caranthir. Neither Feanor nor Celegorm think she's good enough for Curufin (if Curufin had married Varda herself, they would say the same thing), and Nerdanel, Maedhros and Maglor are all accidentally a little patronizing ("Curufin is a baby and therefore so is his wife") but Caranthir? Caranthir she can befriend. Caranthir doesn't have many friends, and that doesn't really bother him, so even befriending her at all is unexpected, but over time he actually comes to see her as the sister he's never had. He's never particularly affectionate, and they aren't trading secrets, but he genuinely enjoys talking to and spending time with her, and he actually grows closer to Curufin as a result (though that's a low bar to clear because Caranthir and Curufin pretty much mutually ignored each other growing up.)

Appearance

Maedhros looks a lot like Mahtan, and (100% random headcanon warning!) Maglor looks a lot like Nerdanel’s mother, while Celegorm of course resembles Miriel - and jumping ahead, Curufin is basically Feanor, and the twins are very Nerdanel-y. Morifinwe Carnistir, though, has Feanor's dark hair and Nerdanel's ruddy complexion. Whichever parent he's standing next to, you can quickly spot the family resemblance. Ditto when he stands next to his grandfathers. From the instant he's born until he's fully grown, people constantly remark how much Caranthir looks like his family. He can barely look in the mirror without seeing by himself that yes, he's a perfect blend of the families. That's little more than amusing trivia for a long time, but in Beleriand, having lost Feanor and Finwe to death and Nerdanel and Mahtan to betrayal, Caranthir comes to hate how he looks. It's not as bad as the issues Maedhros and Curufin develop, but he goes out of his way to style his hair and dress in ways that are unlike anything either side of his family would ever choose, even going as far as to borrow stylistic elements from non-Noldorin cultures.

[awkwardkindatries]

Kinktober Day 3: Uniform

Have I ever said how much I genuinely love Celebrimbor? best boy.

Celebrimbor/reader

NSFW

Words:2347

Elves in Eregion didn't really have uniforms outside of military forces, they did however, have a standard of dress for their meetings in court. This dress code typically consists of a high collar shirt, a button down tunic, full length trousers followed by high polished black boots. One's hair must always be done and braided back and most jewelry is kept to the minimum at a circlet and possibly a ring. All fabrics are embellished in elaborate embroidery and buttons polished to a lovely shine, not a hair or stitch to be out of place.

These court sessions aren't exactly frequent so within your time there you hadn't had the pleasure of catching him in his authoritative garb until today. You caught sight of him walking back to his quarters, his shoulders weren't square they were dropped in exhaustion, his eyes were tired and his brow furrowed in stress. You couldn't help but to follow him a few paces as he walked past you before grabbing ahold of his cuff, softly calling his name.

He whips around to stare at you allowing you to take full advantage of your close proximity. He's tall and broad as he towers above you, his clothing makes him look sharp and important, as if he could command a room of people and they listen without hesitation.

In contrast, his disposition was soft, worn down by politics and stress bearing down on him with the weight of Arda. Though you couldn't relieve him fully of this weight you could at least make the load seem lighter.

You offer him company on the rest of the walk back to his chambers, the halls oddly empty as the hour was not yet late. You suppose this was for the better as the added traffic would only have exasperated his condition. Chatter was relatively light between the two of you, and though you two had grown close you didn't want to wear him down further with topics of importance.

When you had made it to his door, he hesitated frna moment before allowing you to follow him into his room. It wasn't something new to you however, it was deemed inappropriate by the court for an unmarried individual such as yourself to follow a member of said court into privacy, let alone while he was still in his professional attire. He opens the door and before you enter you glance to both sides once more and follow him on, lightly shifting the door behind you. You turn in search of him and find that he has fallen backward in a large splayed-out lump on top of his bed, legs draped over the side and head inches from the wall.

His arms rest bent over his head, hands atop his eyes as he lets out a deep sigh, letting the stress of the day leave his body as well as he could on his own. You couldn't help the light snort that left you as you took him in, yes he was tired, stressed, more than likely overworked but he was an up and coming leader and you understand that there's an adjustment period to these things that your partner might still be adjusting to.

While he mulls about with his head in his hands and thoughts elsewhere you take the moment to look around his room. It's neat, like normal but there are still things out of place that feel like disarray in the normally spotless, “not a hair out of order” Feanorians room. Books are pulled from their spots and left about on the table in the center of the room, discarded after reading. A half-empty cup of tea remains beside it. The towel he had used earlier in the day has not made its way back to the bathing chamber and sits in a little pool on the floor at his footboard. And lastly, the circlet he had been wearing earlier now rested on the floor, more than likely having been aimed for the table and not bothering to pick it up after hearing it drop to the carpet below. Odd, it was his fathers. He only ever wore it for formal occasions and typically treated it with more care.

You make your way in front of him before bending down to pluck it from the carpet, setting it in its intended place. Once finished, you turn to him.

His arms and hands slide from his face before his eyes reopen and he stares you down.

“Thank you, though you could have left it. I'd have gotten it eventually.”

You give a kind smile in return

“I couldn't possibly leave something so important to you.”

The smile he gives in return is tired and barrel there but it exists and you cherish every moment. Reaching out your hand you offer help, and say “if we hurry then we might still be able to catch supper, I heard they're serving stew tonight.”

It is his favorite after all.

He grabs your hand and attempts to stand before his knees give a weak wobble and he plummets back to the mattress. His body was obviously much closer to shutting down than the two of you had originally suspected.

He drags you down with him as he reconnects with the bed, you landing on top of his broad chest, subconsciously to the expensive fabric beneath your fingers, eyes shutting in anticipation of impact.

When it comes, the impact isn't too bad. The Ellon beneath you is as firm and solid as a wall below, opening your eyes you look up into his and you're surprised. His face is flushed a soft pink as he stares down at you, mouth suddenly filled with cotton neither really capable of speech. You're just about to get up and awkwardly excuse yourself to the hallway in order to take your embarrassment elsewhere when you feel it.

You're resting on something that grows hard against your stomach and as a result, are probably much redder than you were a few seconds prior. Since your eye contact stopped the next few moments would almost be comical as he realized the very moment you figured this situation out. You in turn realize you'd been found out and look away is embarrassment, not entirely sure what your next move should be.

He sits up, slightly shaking as anxiety begins to rack his body.

“I-im so sorry!” he quick to apologize

As you still rest in his lap, fingers tightly holding his velvet tunic you begin to consider a few things. How tired he has been lately, his body probably reacting in many ways due to this. How hard he has been working to do better for the people, his constant commute back and forth from the dwarvish colonies to improve relations, how on top of all of his duties he still manages to do the bare minimum to take care of himself and still sacrificing what little personal time he had for you.

You wonder when he gets time for care, he spends so much of his time caring for others, he does he receive any back.

Perhaps you could do this for him.

Taking the chance, you brace yourself against him and push back, grinding against him. His hands shoot to your hips holding you fast, looking all the more like a deer in sight.

“What are you doing?” he asks

You clear your throat and attempt the best steady voice that you're capable of at the moment.

“ Could I- if it's okay, uh. Help with that?” you ask, gesturing slightly down with your head.

You broke him, you're convinced of it, he hasn't blinked or moved in possibly a whole minute and at this point you're certain that you've just embarrassed yourself enough for the rest of your lifetime, you've ruined all of the time you put into forming this bond with Celebrimbor. You make to get off but his grip on your hips holds firm and he speaks, it's low and soft, barely there at all.

“I couldn't possibly ask..”

Immediately you perk up and backtrack your last thought process.

“You aren't!” you insist “I'm offering, I’d really like to help”.

Another moment passes and he nods in approval turning his head away, possibly embarrassed himself “Alright, if you so wish it..”

After receiving his permission you suddenly feel much more authoritative as you have this powerful looking Ellon below you, wanting your touch.your hands glide up from the fabric of his tunic to his neck stopping at his jaws, forcing his face in your direction his eyes meet yours.

“Can I kiss you?”

The question is simple but his reaction is almost like it was more intimate a request than touching anything below the belt. The answer isn’t as firm as the last one but he consents. Leaning in you apply soft pressure taking your time to make this count, to make him feel loved, appreciated. This cycle repeats until you slide your tongue along the seam of his mouth, asking for further permission. He shakes a tad but relents and squeezes your hips harder as you suck his tongue into your mouth and give a firm suck, the grunt that leaves him is intoxicating. Pulling away he already looks slightly out of breath and frankly you’re impressed with yourself.

You gently pull his fingers away from your body and move to kneel on the floor in front of him.

His hands now clench onto the fabric of his bedsheets as you take your time dragging up and down the sides of his thighs hoping to bring him more comfort. With a little more confidence your fingers trail over the fabric above his crotch, receiving a sharp inhale in return. Moving to the laces, unlacing them is quick then you make for the hem of his trousers. Looking up, he then understands and lifts up his waist allowing you to pull them further down to his thighs.

He's full and standing at attention, you glance up to him and you don't think you've ever seen his face any redder as he bites his lip in anticipation.

Taking him in hand you give a light kiss to the underside, his head falling back as a gasp leaves him. Continuing to watch his face, you grasped him tighter and began to stroke him up and down, a shudder leaving him at the motion.

In no time you've collected a fair amount of saliva and put it to use, giving a firm lick to the length of him. His breath chokes up for a second as he experiences this for the first Time. You repeat this a few times before taking a breath and wrapping your lips around his head. You hear the sheets stretch on either side of you as you work. Sucking in your cheeks as tightly as you could you swirl your tongue around the head, every so often flicking against the slit across the top.

Now that his noises have worked up to breathy sighs you take this as a sign to kick it up a notch. Bracing your hands on either thigh you push yourself up a little to give yourself a better angle. Tightening your hold on the bottom of his cock you took as much of him in your mouth as you could, barely making it to the top of your hand. Continuing your work and pace with determination you had barely noticed his hips following your pace chasing after the heat of your mouth.

His head is still tossed back as he breathes deeply occasionally gifting you with a groan and now you've given yourself a new goal. You want to make a mess of this man.

Removing your hand from his base you take a much deeper breath and begin to bob your hands as shallowly swallowing with every other bob. His hands shoot to your hair as a moan forces its way out of his throat. You have to try your hardest not to gag as tears prick your eyes and your jaw begins to ache at the size of your task. But you can do better, grinding the head of his cock against the back of your throat you begin to hum, alternating between bobbing and grinding your head in his lap occasionally scraping the tip of your nose against his pelvis.

You can feel his hands trembling in your hair as he doubles over above you, groans and moans trickling freely from his throat as he tries to contain himself from thrusting into your mouth and causing you harm. His feet can't seem to keep still as they slide against the floorboards below and his toes curl tightly under the polished black of his formal boots. The heat in his gut begins to bubble, ready to boil over as he gives a weak effort to warn you of his untimely end

“D-darling I *groan* I don't have much l-longer..”

Doubling down your efforts, you're determined to make his world crumble around him in rapture. Mere moments pass and relief washes over you and your jaw as his body locks, keeping your lips pressed firmly against his pelvis as he throbs out his finish down the length of your throat, a deep moan choking it's way from his depths .

Letting out a shuddered breath he lets go of your body before dropping back to his sheet, trying his damndest to regain his breath. His body feels like jelly and his head empty of all of his previous troubles as he basks in his euphoric high.

Pulling yourself from him you lick your lips in satisfaction as your loved one pants across from you. You make to grab his trousers hoping to help remake his decent before his hands gently cradle and hold onto yours. Sitting up a soft blush has resurfaced to his skin and he looks deeply into your eyes, you can't help but to feel warm as your arousal shoots back up.

“So then is it my turn?”

[feanorianethicsdepartment]

Do you have any personal headcanons about Celebrimbor's mother and her relationship with Curufin? I always thought that it's weird we don't have even the barest information about that considering Celebrimbor's unique position as the only next gen Feanorian. (Sorry if you already talked about this somewhere!)

thanks for the ask! i have, but i'm not going to pass up an opportunity to blather on about my ocs for several paragraphs

curufin's wife (she lacks a name because i hate giving characters names and will delay it until i absolutely have to) is noldorin, she lives in valinor in the years of the trees. i haven't thought much about her family, but i suspect they're middling nobility at the highest the did-valinor-have-social-classes debate is a whole different rabbit hole. she's a metalworker like her husband (she probably specialises in a slightly different subcategory but idk enough to say what) and is a member of the same tirion artisan guild. it's in that context that they meet and begin their Intense Crafting Rivalry

you know that trope where a pair of rivals are so obsessively devoted to one-upping each other it's blindingly obvious that what they actually want is to kiss? that's them, that's their relationship. their specialties are just similar enough they do a lot of the same stuff but just different enough their approaches tend to be radically divergent. what starts as the two of them trying to prove the superiority of their own artistic circle or whatever evolves into them trying to show up him/her specifically, s/he's wrong about x and i know i can do better, why does my family keep asking if we're dating yet????? their competition gets absolutely ridiculous in ways only a pre-scarcity society can get, like building an entire fountain out of solid silicon specifically because he said she couldn't do it (he actually said shouldn't but screw him (not literally cousin oh my valar))

but yeah. their relationship grows an undercurrent of the-only-one-allowed-to-push-around-my-archnemesis-is-me, and they find themselves fighting back to back (occasionally literally) when tirion guild politics takes a turn for the tirion guild politics. they just slowly come to trust each other, more than anyone else, and soon there comes an appropriately dramatic moment for them to suddenly kiss. they're still always trying to out-craftself each other, celebrimbor grows up in a house that's about 70% forge to the background noise of his parents insulting each other's work, but they're comfortable with each other in a way neither of them could have imagined in the early days, and when things get rough they always have each other's backs

things do, in fact, get rough. maglor won't meet his wife until beleriand, caranthir's relationship with his spouse slowly falls apart along with the political situation in tirion, but curufin's wife is loudly team fëanor. she suffers from an acute case of finwean spouse disease, she thinks going to middle-earth to build their own world is an awesome idea, she's deeply embedded in the tirion artisan scene with an entire social circle as think the same way, and when the inevitable civil war flares up she'll probably be even more eager to fight the fingolfinians than her husband. she goes with him and their-still-pretty young son to formenos, and when the trees get eaten and fëanor does the speech she prepares for the adventure of a lifetime

then, alqualondë. i stand by my conviction that nobody on the noldorin side walked in planning to steal the boats, let alone murder the teleri, but it was dark and the world was ending and everybody had sharp things. like everybody else involved in the first kinslaying, curufin and wife got caught up in the battle because somebody shouted 'they're attacking us!' in the distance. she is at first more trying to stop them from stabbing her, obsidian fishing spears glancing off ornamental steel, but then she lashes out and she hits someone in the chest and -

there was this recurring trope in her and her husband’s endless mutual critique. she’d create something beautiful, artfully devised and elegantly constructed, showing off a whole ton of design principles and doing things with the material no one had ever done. he would look at it skeptically and go ‘okay, but what use is it? what is it for?’

red liquid running down the fuller of the exquisite sword she forged herself, light guttering out of another elf’s eyes as he coughs up blood, she knows, sure as once were the light of the trees, what the piece of metal in her hands is for

the next few moments are a blur. she threw the sword into the water, she knows that. somehow she wound up running out of alqualondë, tears streaming down her face, as buildings burned and people screamed behind her. she found a concealed spot by the road, tore off her armour, peeked outside, and watched. when the fires were dying down and the boats were clearly gone, she mustered her courage and went to save her family

in the centuries to come, very few people believe celebrimbor when he tells them his mother tried to get his father to come back by, among other things, appealing to his better nature. nobody believes that it almost worked. but curufin was still only starting out on the road to hellbeastery, and his wife was his eternal partner-in-crime. right there at the beginning, staring out over a burning city, she saw where the road the noldor were walking would eventually lead them, no matter how much they tried to deny it. no dreams could be worth that, she told him. no ideals. and she was always the idealist, wasn’t she?

she was. maybe that’s why he, who had so very few ideals to mark his path, refused to abandon this one. their discussion rapidly devolved into a screaming argument half the camp could hear, much like curufin’s last argument with celebrimbor, centuries later. soon enough, though, it became clear that he wouldn’t turn back, and she refused to go on, and neither of them could change the other’s minds. the only thing left between them was celebrimbor

celebrimbor was eight (-ish in elf years), and completely freaked out, and eight, and knew almost nothing about what was going on, and eight, and had grown up listening to his grandfather’s dreams, and eight, and was surrounded by adults who very loudly thought going to middle-earth would solve all their problems, and eight, and couldn’t tell why his mother was abandoning them. panicking, on the spot, he buried his face in curufin’s smock to wipe away his tears. when he looked up, she was gone

so yeah, curufin’s wife went back with finarfin, that’s why she didn’t go to middle-earth. she initially stayed with nerdanel because almost everyone else on both sides of her extended family remained by (and later burned) the boats, i’m only just realising the horrible curufin argument probably wasn’t even the only one she went through that night, jeez. also she really needed a hug. the sun rose, alqualondë started rebuilding, and she ended up head of her and her husband’s former mutual craft guild, mostly because nobody else with the skills to do it was left. decades turn to centuries, news slowly filters back from beleriand, and her worst nightmares are proven so awfully right

probably the biggest emotion she feels towards curufin in the aftermath is betrayal. they were partners, in every sense of the word, they took on the world and they did it together, using their constant competition to drive each other to ever greater heights. they listened to each other, they trusted each other’s judgement, and she knows he understood the point she was making. him continuing on anyway, and diving face-first into the void - the elf she thought she knew would never have done that. as time passes by, the grief and the loneliness get subsumed by a deep abiding rage. if she ever sees the thing her husband let himself become again, she’ll throw a welding torch in his face

but that anger, that heartbreak, none of that applies to her son. when the hosts of valinor began gearing up for war - she’s the leader of tirion’s most prominent metalworking guild, she can’t not go. while they’re unloading supplies and siege equipment and stuff onto the isle of balar, she happens to pass by this relatively short dusky-skinned noldo hauling some smithing equipment about. as soon as he gets a proper look at her, he gasps. she looks back in confusion, and then she meets his eyes

later, she’ll hear his tales of his adventures in the hither lands, all of the hardships, yes, but also all of the brilliance. later, she’ll learn about the person he’s grown into, someone she can be unreservedly proud of in his choices and works. later, they’ll talk about the future, about his ambitions of making his grandfather’s dream come true, but with open hands and a light to be shared with all the peoples of middle-earth. for now, though, she wraps celebrimbor in a massive hug, and lets the tears flow down her face, because no matter how much they’ve lost, no matter how deep the darkness around them, right here and now, her son is alive

[tilions]

Chess

@tolkienocweek day one - shipping. Aracundo, Gil-Galad, a bet and chess, also cuddles and my very clumsy first attempt at romance. I should have gone with Headcanons instead probably.

It wasn't unusual for Aracundo to wait until way after midnight for him. Council meetings were a matter of long debates and advisors always found a way to make them even longer, mostly by discussing a topic that on other days would've taken mere minutes for such an extended period of time that it seemed downright exhausting for an outsider. But he knew that this was part of his husband's duties.

Husband.

The thought made him blush a little and he looked at the slim silver ring he wore on his right hand. Husband. They had only been married for four years and yet Aracundo was sure he would never tire of it. It made him happy in a way he hadn't been in a very long time.

Not since… not since ever actually. He couldn't recall a time in which he had been as happy or even happier than now.

His childhood had been a mess to put it lightly. He didn't like to recall it. His adolescence he had spent fighting in a war. His adulthood however he would spend married, loving and in peace.

He was sure of it. Now came a time of happiness. An eternity of love and security.

While he waited Aracundo used his time to run over some formulas that had been invented during the First Age and that had survived the sinking of Beleriand. Their purpose had been lost over the chaos of the war and the deaths of those who invented them but Aracundo had made the decision to rediscover their purpose even though they seemingly had none. Most of them he had quickly realised were indeed only brain exercises, theoretical concepts without any further usage.

But there were exceptions to this and whenever he found one he was overjoyed. His husband was very profound in putting them to use whenever or wherever they could be applied.

While he went through the sparse notes of a Gondolindrim scholar who had sadly not survived the Fall of Gondolin he glanced over to the table beside the large window where a chess game waited to be finished. A smile formed on his lips.

-

"Chess? What's so interesting about that?" Ereinion asked and picked up one of the pieces Tyelpë had carved for Aracundo out of soapstone. It wasn't his brother's best piece of work but Aracundo loved them regardless, it was the latest begetting day gift he had received, the first in their new home. He treasured them.

"It's a good exercise," Aracundo replied and smiled. He pointed to the seat across the chess board. "Why not try and learn? I can teach you."

Ereinion set down the piece again - not quite where it belonged but Aracundo was quick to fix that - and looked at him for a long time, without saying something.

"Why would you want to exercise in your free time? That doesn't make much sense. Free time is free time after all."

His logic didn't make much sense to Aracundo. Exercises were fun after all, especially when they had something to do with thinking and logic. What did Ereinion do when he had nothing to do? Did he just laze around in the midday sun and do nothing? Aracundo couldn't be able to do this. He would be overcome with the desire to do anything.

"It's also a lot of fun," Aracundo tried. "At least for me. But if His Highness isn't interested in learning I wouldn't blame him."

His attempt at getting out of a discussion before it began took an unexpected turn for him. Instead of nodding and turning away to go and laze around, Ereinion frowned, pulled back the chair on the other side of the table and took a seat.

"It isn't that I'm not interested," the prince stated, avoiding Aracundo's eyes. He chewed on the inside of his cheek. "It's just that I've never played before…"

Aracundo beamed.

"Then I'll teach you!"

Ereinion blushed and nodded.

-

"You win every time…"

"I have more experience than you, Ereinion. When you have played some more and figured out a strategy I'm sure that you will be able to best me. You learn really quick after all."

Ereinion looked at him with skepticism but didn't say anything more. Aracundo wanted to laugh but didn't as he arranged the chess pieces once more in their starting position on the board. His new chess pieces - ones one of his distant uncles had brought with him from across the sea, originally meant for his mother who like him loved to play - too pretty and expensive for the old run down board they were using. Wood was rare these days. Aracundo didn't want to waste even a little bit on something trivial like this.

"Do you have time for another game?" he asked his friend with a smile. Ereinion nodded.

"As long as nothing comes up I should," he said. Both of them knew that something could come up at any moment, that these peaceful games were the most leisure Ereinion got these days. As High King and as General he had a stacked schedule and had to be ready for battle at all times. Aracundo on the other hand just like Tyelpë had been removed from all battle activities because of his Feanorian blood. No soldier from across the sea or native to Beleriand wanted to fight on the side of s Feanorian. It didn't bother Aracundo. He could work with the tacticians while Tyelpë repaired weapons and armour.

"Well then," Aracundo said as he finished rearranging the pieces. "Since you lost, you may begin."

Ereinion looked at the board thoughtfully. It was the sort of look he got when he was thinking about something that he was very serious about. Aunt Lalwen had said that he looked very much like his father when he did so but Aracundo couldn't testify this.

"How… about a bet," he said after a while, his gray eyes sparkling. Aracundo raised an eyebrow.

"A bet?"

"Yes a bet, not that I'm going to win it any time soon but if I win just one game you have to grant me a wish, no matter what."

The smile Ereinion gave him made Aracundo's poor heart skip a beat. A bet. Oh dear that could end one of two ways and Aracundo wasn't sure if he was ready for either.

"I won't humiliate you!" Ereinion added hastily. "It will be harmless I swear!"

"No swearing!" Aracundo said automatically, very serious and sincere. No swearing. That was a rule.

"But I mean it. I won't humiliate you, won't force you to do anything you don't want to. Promise."

Aracundo nodded.

"Alright…"

-

Throughout the war he didn't win a single time. For some reason though he didn't seem bothered by this at all anymore, instead any time he lost he seemed more and more eager for the next game. Aracundo could feel himself falling for this stubborn, stubborn man.

Oddly enough this made him anticipate the day the other one finally won even more.

-

The day he did win was some few years after the war. They were seated in one of the many gardens of the royal palace, on a blanket amidst the flowers Aracundo had planted himself. Their chess board was new, made and decorated by Ereinion himself, yet they weren't using the new pieces along with it. Ereinion had insisted that they use the old ones made by Tyelpë.

"Like when we were children."

Aracundo could not say no to him, not anymore. He had discovered quite a while ago that he couldn't deny the other man anything anymore, no matter how silly or trivial. Only a few days ago they had gone and collected seashells and lazed around on the beach the entire afternoon. Aracundo had forgotten what it was like to be without worry and as it seemed so had Ereinion.

Their chess games were a wonderful distraction. The only time either of them felt truly free from any duties. The only leisure time they allowed themselves, even though the bet was an ever present factor during their games.

The bet that was now over. Aracundo looked at his king, trapped and with no way of escape. He had lost. They had played this game consistently for nearly a century and a half and this was the first time Aracundo had lost. He couldn't be more proud.

He looked at his smiling friend.

"Congratulations!" he said and Ereinion nodded seriously but instead of demanding his price here and now he sat up and began to put the chess board and pieces out of the way, back into their chest, making room on the blanket in between them. He took his time but Aracundo could see how his hands were shaking with excitement.

Once finished he shifted a little, seemingly uncertain of what to say. That was new. Ereinion had never been someone who struggled with his words.

"You promised no humiliation," Aracundo reminded him. Ereinion nodded, his ears red.

"Not for you," he said, voice cracking.

"Why would you want to wish for something that would be humiliating for you?" Aracundo found himself asking.

"Because I know I would also like it very much. It's just that I don't know if you will like it the same way I would…"

Ereinion shifted a little closer, their noses touching.

"Because," he said. "I wish for this."

Aracundo's first kiss was not like how he had read about first kisses in those romance novels the Edian tended to write. There was too much nose, too little experience on both sides, the feeling of other lips on his was weird but it was the best possible outcome for this bet.

He felt like it was the perfect first kiss regardless.

-

He awoke when soft lips touched his earlobe. His mind had drifted away from the waking world too caught up in his thoughts. He slowly blinked away the fogginess that had settled in front of his eyes and was met with his husband's gentle smile.

"You should not wait for me, Aryo," he said quietly and kissed his brow. Aracundo made a small noise in protest. Of course he would wait for his husband. It was only fair… yet he had drifted off again instead of staying present and awake. A shame.

"Rest is important for you. Your mother was very clear when she ordered me to take care of you on our wedding day, you know? And if we're both being very honest with one another, I fear both her and your brother more than most things…"

Aracundo huffed a little and lifted his head from his papers. One of them stuck to his cheek but was swiftly removed by his husband's gentle hand. One more kiss was placed on his face, this time on his forehead.

"Are you coming to rest with me?" Aracundo asked. "Or do you have more meetings to attend?"

"In the morning again but for this night I'm all yours my dear."

He held out his hand for Aracundo to take and let him past the side table with their unfinished chess game and past the balcony where the two wine flukes were still waiting and past the normally closed doors into their shared bedroom.

Aracundo could only stand still as his husband lifted the circlet from his head and removed any ornaments, earrings, rings (save for their wedding band), bracelets and necklaces that he was obligated to wear because it was Noldorin tradition.

Aracundo had never really cared about Noldorin traditions that much, his mother being Telerin and him growing up being surrounded by mainly Sindar and Edain. But when he wore the small trinkets Ereinion had gifted him over the years of their courtship made his husband's eyes sparkle with happiness.

So he continued wearing them.

The small smile that graced his husband's features was worth any annoying tradition.

When they were done undressing and changing into simple light nightgowns they huddled together under the covers seeking each other's warmth and comfort. Aracundo buried his face in the other man's neck, breathing in the smell of ink and pine trees, while soft fingers combed through the long white strands of his hair.

"I'm exhausted," Ereinion proclaimed quietly. "Here I was thinking that ruling would be easier once the war is over and we all can return to a peaceful life. And yet.. yet they come and ask about taxes and land and legal privileges."

"You are doing great I'm sure," Aracundo replied and looked up at him. His husband smiled fondly but there was still a frown in between his brows. Aracundo was determined to make it go away.

"You think so, Aryo? Or are you just saying that so that I don't feel bad?"

"No, Ereinion, you're wonderful at organising and planning. You will most definitely find a way to make the people happy. It will just take some more time and effort. Tirion wasn't built in one day either "

He earned a kiss on his bare shoulder and one on his cheekbone for this, as well as a smile half hidden in the comfortable darkness of their room.

[theelvenhaven]

The order of which the Gondolin and Feanorian elves would allow/enjoy make up being put on them. Pleeeeaaase!!!!

Of course I can!!! ☺️ Elves usually aren’t very big on make up as far as we know BUT if the circumstances were right or if it was widely available like it for us I’m sure they’d indulge! Let it be noted that this whole answer took on a life of its own lol

Fëanorians

Fëanor -  Fëanor, being who he is, is extremely confident in his appearance and his beauty and feels that it needs no enhancing what so ever. I think he would’ve absolutely experimented with it first though before deciding he didn’t need to wear it. Content with you applying a couple of different things, like eyeliner and mascara and even some highlighter. He understands the appeal but again he is confident he doesn’t need it. In turn Fëanor would absolutely apply make up to you instead, expect for subtle feature enhancing application until it comes to lipstick. Expect bold and rich colors as well as shiny and glossy gloss, he loves to smear your lipstick at the end of the day with a heated and passionate kiss.

Maedhros - Maedhros especially pre Angband wouldn’t bother with any, if you wore any of course he wouldn’t say anything. In fact he’d like the way mascara makes your lashes longer and giving the illusion your eyes are bigger. Post Angband that would change specifically in the name of concealer and foundation. Wanting to hide any scars that he could, he wouldn’t allow for anyone but himself to apply it. And he’d have no interest in anything else but concealer in foundation when the times could allow for it in the midst of his oath and war.

Maglor - Pre flight, Maglor would love highlighter and possibly even mascara! He’s a preformer, so anything that would enhance his beauty subtly would be accepted. Though he’d be averse to lipsticks and eyeliner and bright blushes. Concealer and foundation wouldn’t be necessary considering his skin is flawless. He loved it when you’d put highlighter on him and how gentle you worked with him. Post flight he wouldn’t worry about it, there’s too much happening and not enough time to indulge in such luxuries.

Celegorm - Celegorm’s version of make up would be extremely different as opposed to more classic wear and use. I think for him it would be more like face paint for the sake of hunting and blending in more effectively with the terrain. He’s completely opposed to wearing any make up other than that, and will allow you to apply his face paint. You wearing make up on the other hand is completely okay and encouraged, especially encouraging you to wear bright red lipstick.

Caranthir - Caranthir I feel like would possibly like eyeliner, not anything heavy of course. Just a subtle line around his lash lines, and he’s an expert at keeping it from running and smudging. Caranthir isn’t big on letting you apply it onto him considering it’s his eyes and is mildly fearful you’ll stab him on accident. He hates concealers and foundations and especially blushes. If you’re in a relationship and wear blush he’d find it somewhat endearing that you’d want your face to look similar to his. But if you’re big on wearing foundation and concealer anticipate him to be cold about you wearing it. Especially if you are constantly telling him how much you love his rosy face as is, he finds it completely and totally hypocritical that you tell him not to alter his complexion while you do it in turn.

Curufin - Curufin, like Caranthir, would like wearing eyeliner! Rather than wearing around his whole eye like Cara would, he’d wear it just on his bottom lashline. He’d not be up for you putting it on him at all, not so much because you might stab him, it’s just because he’s stubborn. I feel like Curufin would also get creative with his liner, wanting to possibly make his appearance look more regal and intimidating. Like Celegorm and Caranthir, he’d be opposed to anything else. As opposed to you putting any make up on him, Curufin I think would enjoy dolling you up instead. 

Amrod & Amras - Amrod and Amras are still considerably much younger than their brothers and I think they would be experimental in what make up they’d wear. Even allowing you to experiment on their faces, and taking your suggestions to heart. They’d also certainly follow Celegroms lead on the face paint, considering they are hunters as well. Some days they might be more partial to eyeliner, another day blush or highlighter, or just mascara.

Celebrimbor - I think he’d take after his grandfather on this one, while he sees the appeal to wearing make up he just isn’t big on it. He appreciates the art to it and how beautiful it is, but it’s just not for him. He spends too much time in the forges anyways, sweating it all off to worry about keeping it on. He does like when you wear minimal make up as well, preferring a more natural look. Though even if you prefer a less natural look, Celebrimbor will think you are gorgeous either way. He loves you regardless of what you wear and what you do. 

Gondolin

Turgon - I feel like Turgon would have mixed feelings about make up, he’d appreciate what it can do but he’d be a sucker for staying more natural. In the privacy of your chambers when it is just you two, he’d allow for subtle looks to be applied. No eyeliner or lipsticks though, and he wouldn’t wear it outside of your chambers. I think he’d have an affinity for the highlighter and heavily consider wearing it to court or doing his daily duties, but would be a little nervous about doing so. Keeping him to stay natural.

Glorfindel - He loves highlighter and blushes and maybe even some lip balm. Nothing too over the top of course, being an elf again that natural look is going to take priority. But he loves the extra sparkle it adds to his natural glow already, and he is absolutely content and relaxed to you applying the make up to him. He also loves to see you wearing make up as well, again more partial to natural looks. But he is content if you wear a little more heavier highlighter than he does. 

Salgant - I don’t think Salgant would be partial to any make up at all, not wanting to stray at all from his natural look. Unlike Turgon, he would be completely adverse to you applying anything on him at all, even just to experiment and for fun. I also think Salgant would be adverse to you wearing any make up as well, wanting you to be completely natural. 

Rog - Rog is very go with the flow and extremely laid back, but when it comes to make up it’s not something he will wear especially in public. It doesn’t help that he does spend copious amounts of time sweaty in the forges, and all of your hard work would wash away from the sweat. On nights when you both are goofing around, and if you ask Rog will let you apply make up to him. Even if you make it utterly ridiculous he will only laugh, but expect for the same to happen to you. The more outrageous you make him look, he will be sure to do the same to you in turn.

Ecthelion - He’s not very big on make up, preferring none at all for himself. Ecthelion feels that he doesn’t need to wear anything to enhance his features. Feeling that his features are beautiful enough, and he is adverse to experimentation to it because he knows he doesn’t need it. As for you, even if Ecthelion prefers no make up, he isn’t going to go out of his way to tell you that how he feels. If you like wearing make up and the extra confidence it gives you, he is content with that. 

Penlod - Penlod feels no particular way about make up at all, I think he’d try and experiment with a little bit of everything. From more subtle looks, to a little more bold (nothing ever over the top.). He’d happily let you apply anything that you wanted to his face, wanting to see what all the looks you could come up with. Depending on how bold you go he’d wear it for the day, and absolutely would he experiment make up looks on you constantly if you allow for it. 

Maeglin - Expect absolutely no room for experimentation or application on Maeglin by your own two hands for a considerable amount of time. Considering that require a great deal of trust and comfort that he would have to share with you before even letting you touch his face like that. Maeglin would probably be more partial to eyeliner and concealer. He’d like how black liner could make his eyes pop and be even brighter than they already are, probably wearing a thicker line as opposed to a thin one. He’d certainly use the concealer to hide the purple bags under his eyes from all of his lack of sleep. Maeglin would admire and enjoy when you wear make up, liking the way it makes your eyes look brighter, and the way your skin would sparkle and the way your lips would be tinted. 

Galdor - Galdor prefers the simplicity of lip balm and nothing else, in fact he produces it himself! He’s not big on anything other than that for himself, being so laid back he doesn’t mind what else you like to wear. Other than that he won’t really allow you to apply much of anything to his face, save the lipbalm. He’s a simple ellon with simple tastes!

Duílin - Duilin I think would be like Celegorm and Ambarussa in the name of face paint for hunting before Gondolin was completed. I’m sure he loved the thrill of the hunt and all that entailed with it. As for make up outside of his face paint, he prefers nothing. He does however have a preference for when you wear mascara and blush, he loves the rosy color added to your face. Thinking you’re even more beautiful with it on. 

Egalmoth - Egalmoth loves highlighter, and light tinted lip balm for himself. He loves the sparkle in highlighter and likes to look even more radiant especially when he is decked out in all of his jewelry. Egalmoth prefers pale pink lip balms to add a little more color to his face, and he prefers applying it himself. Though he will relinquish his control to let you do it if you asked. In turn Egalmoth also loves to apply make up to you as well. Adding extra highlighter and bolder colors of lip balm or lipstick to your face.

* * *

tags:

@lilmelily @dicksoutformtl @fandom-hoe101 @icarus-fell-in-spring

[thesingingelves]

The Elf Lord who brought Dior the Silmaril; what was going through his head?

@phoenixrisesoncemore​ wanted to know what about the Green-Elves of Ossiriand and their place in Beren&Lúthien, their relationship with the Silmaril and the perspective of  the Elf Lord who brought the Silamril to Dior

It’s done :’D

The Passage in question:

“There came a night of autumn, and when it grew late, one came and smote upon the doors of Menegroth, demanding admittance to the King. He was a lord of the Green-Elves hastening from Ossiriand, and the door-wards brought him to where Dior sat alone in his chamber; and there in silence he gave to the King a coffer, and took his leave.” The Silmarillion, Of the Ruin of Doriath.

Relationship with the Sons of Fëanor

“But the victory of the Elves was Dear-bought. For those of Ossiriand were light-armed, and no match for the Orcs, who were shod with iron and iron-shielded and bore great spears with broad blades; and Denethor was cut off and surrounded upon the hill of Amon Ereb. There he fell and all his nearest kin about him, before the host of Thingol could come to his aid.  Bitterly though his fall was avenged, when Thingol came upon the rear of the Orcs and slew them in heaps, his people lamented him ever after and took no king again. After the battle some returned to Ossiriand, and their tidings filled the remnant of their people with great fear, so that thereafter they came never forth in open war, but kept to themselves by wariness and secrecy; and they were called Laiquendi, the Green-elves, because of their raiment of the color of leaves. But many went North and entered the guarded realm of Thingol and were merged with his people.1”

“...And the Orcs took the fortress upon the west slopes of Mount Rerir, and ravaged all of Thargelion, the land of Caranthir; and they defiled Lake Helevorn. Thence they passed over Gelion with fire and terror and came into East Beleriand. Maglor joined Maedhros upon Himring; but Caranthir fled and joined the remnant of his people to the scattered folk of the hunters, Amrod and Amras, and they retreated and passed Ramdal in the south. Upon Amon Ereb they maintained a watch and some strength of war, and they had the aid of the Green-Elves; and the Orcs came not into Ossiriand, nor to Taur-im-Duinath and the wilds of the south.2”

“...and the sons of Fëanor wandered before the wind. Their arms were scattered, and their league broken; and they took to a wild life and woodland life beneath the feet of Ered Lindon, mingling with the Green-Elves of Ossiriand…3”

“The Nelyar [Teleri] were most reluctant to leave their lakeside homes; but they were very cohesive, and very conscious of the separate unity of their Clan (as they continued to be), so that when it became clear that their chieftains Elwe and Olwe were resolved to depart and would have a large following, many of those among them who had at first joined the Avari went over to the Eldar rather than be separated from their kin. The Ñoldor indeed asserted that most of the ‘Teleri’ were at heart Avari, and that only the Eglain*** really regretted being left in Beleriand.” After writing about the Tatyar (Noldor who remained in Middle-Earth) and their bitterness towards the Noldor, Christopher Tolkien writes, “This ill-feeling descended in part from the bitterness of the Debate before the March of the Eldar began, and was no doubt later increased by the mechanisms of Morgoth; but it also throws some light upon the temperment of the Ñoldor in general, and Fëanor in particular, Indeed the Teleri on their side asserted that most of the Ñoldor in Aman itself were in heart Avari, and returned to Middle-Earth when they discovered their mistake; they needed room to quarrel in.11**”

Amon Ereb is where the Green-Elves buried their king and lamented him ever after. During Dagor Bragollach, Ambarussa and Caranthir flee to Amon Ereb, where they "maintained a watch and some strength of war." There are two ways this can be; first, we can ignore the line "had the aid of the Green-Elves" since the Quenta Silmarillion was written in-universe and has been revised in-universe, so you can say that that's not an accurate retelling. You could instead say that since there is a War going on, the Feanorians just built there and the Green-Elves feared the retaliation of Murderers. Following that, even if this were not the case and most of the Green-Elves were understanding after the fact, there is bound to be some dissent or some begrudging feelings from others for building a fortress on their beloved kings grave. The second option is to accept the line and say that the Green-Elves allowed them to build there. This would imply that they have a phenomenally good relationship with the Sons of Fëanor (or at least 4, 6 & 7) to allow them to build on Denethor's grave. Personally, I do not think the first option is liable since the Green-Elves attended the Feast of Reuniting, and Thingol, a known Noldor-Hater, only sent two Elves in his stead. The Sons of Feänor also mingled with the Green-Elves after the Fifth Battle, which if canon is to be believed and that "a stranger might pass through their land from end to end and see none of them4," If the Green-Elves didn't want to mingle, they wouldn't have. The next mention of the Sons of Feänor's location (in the published Silmarillion) is after the Elf Lord brought the Silmaril to Doriath; at this time, they were "gathered again from their wandering." So while it's not *explicit* that both the Sons of Fëanor and the Silmaril were within the borders of Ossiriand at the same time, it is implied. It also seems as though there is some bitterness between the Teleri and Noldor. Though the Lindi* are a subsection of the Teleri, they are (along with the Avari), often an afterthought in writings, so I am unsure if the second quote could apply to the Green-Elves or if C. Tolkien was specifically referring to the Tatyar. Regardless though, it seems to me that the Noldor and Teleri have something in common--they're both Avari at heart and love Middle-Earth. Though the Second Kinslaying takes place after the events asked about, I’m going to touch on it briefly as well. Specifically, how “...[the Teleri] were very cohesive, and very conscious of the separate unity of their Clan (as they continued to be), so that when it became clear that their chieftains Elwe and Olwe were resolved to depart and would have a large following, many of those among them who had at first joined the Avari went over to the Eldar rather than be separated from their kin.” Teleri don’t like to be separate from their families and don’t do so lightly; this, to me, implies a high emphasis on family compared to the other clans. The Sons of Feänor, who they gave safe harbor to and allowed to build on their kings grave, really spit in Green-Elves of Ossiriand’s face when they killed their close kin in Doriath.

 Relationship with the Sindar

“But the victory of the Elves was Dear-bought. For those of Ossiriand were light-armed, and no match for the Orcs, who were shod with iron and iron-shielded and bore great spears with broad blades; and Denethor was cut off and surrounded upon the hill of Amon Ereb. There he fell and all his nearest kin about him, before the host of Thingol could come to his aid. Bitterly though his fall was avenged, when Thingol came upon the rear of the Orcs and slew them in heaps, his people lamented him ever after and took no king again. After the battle some returned to Ossiriand, and their tidings filled the remnant of their people with great fear, so that thereafter they came never forth in open war, but kept to themselves by wariness and secrecy; and they were called Laiquendi, the Green-elves, because of their raiment of the color of leaves. But many went North and entered the guarded realm of Thingol and were merged with his people.1”

��...Of those Nandor who took refuge in Doriath after the fall of Denethor is it said; ‘In the event they did not mingle happily with the Teleri of Doriath, and so dwelt mostly in the small land Eglamar, Arthórien under their own chief. Some of them were “darkhearted,” though this did not necessarily appear, except under strain or provocation.’ ‘The chief of the “Guest-elves,” as they were called, was given a permanent place in Thingol’s council…7”

I’m going to paraphrase this next bit by a lot, since it’s a couple pages worth of material11…

Celben: the Sindarin equivalent of Kalaquendi; all Elves other than the Avari and includes the Sindar. It is also equivalent to Eldar (Q.) and Elloi (T.)

Morben: Originally only referred to the Avari, but as other Children became known, it came to mean “Anyone dwelling outside Beleriand, or entering their realm from the outside.” “The first people of this kind to be met were the Nandor...when the Nandor were recognized as kinsfolk of Lindarin origin and speech, they were received into the class of Celbin.” However, later in Note 9 which discusses Eöl and Maeglin, “Some of the Nandor, who were allowed to be Celbin, were not any better,” is written and the Note goes on to discuss Saeros.

“Now word went swiftly among the Elves of Ossiriand that a great host of dwarves bearing gear of war had down out of the mountains and passed over Gelion at the Ford of Stones. These tidings came soon to Beren and Lúthien; and in that time also a messenger came to them out of Doriath telling of what had befallen there. Then Beren arose and left Tol Galen, and summoning to him Dior his son they went north the river Ascar; and with them went many of the Green-Elves of Ossiriand...In that battle by Sarn Athrad Beren fought his last fight, and himself slew the Lord of Nogrod, and wrested from him the Necklace of the Dwarves; but he dying laid his curse upon all the treasure. Then Beren gazed in wonder on the selfsame jewel Fëanor that he has cut from Morgoths iron crown, now shining set amid gold and gems by the cunning of the dwarves; and he washed it clean of blood in the waters of the river. And when all was finished the treasure of Doriath was drowned in the river Ascar, and from that time the river was named anew, Rathlóriel, the Golden Bed…5”

The Green-Elves and the Sindar are both a part of the Olwë’s Host that split off in Middle-Earth, albeit at different times. The Green-Elves had the “Friendship of Thingol,6” and “were welcomed by Thingol as kin long lost that return, and they dwelt in Ossiriand, the Land of Seven Rivers.1” Tolkien also writes that his fall was “bitterly avenged,” so Thingol probably held Denethor himself in high regard. Some Green-Elves even merged with his people in Doriath. However, there is more to this story. “In the event,” is not an often encountered phrase, but “In the event that” is, so myself and others were confused at this wording. As it turns out, the phrase means that after discussing what could’ve been, you’re now discussing what actually happened. “In the end,” “as it happened,” and “as it turned out,” are synonymous with “in the event.8” So this means that the majority of the Green-Elves who migrated to Thingol’s kingdom were unhappy within his kingdom, and though they had a permanent seat on his council, they were also called “Guest-Elves,” which likely alienated them more. I also want to discuss the classes of Calben and Morben; At first, it does seem to follow the published Silmarillion--that all of the Green-Elves were welcomed as kin and subsequently entered into the class of Celben. I don’t think that is the case anymore; I think instead, the ones who merged with Doriath were “allowed” to become Celben and those who returned to Ossiriand remained Morben. It could be, of course, that Green-Elves of Ossiriand are the only ones of the Lindi to hold the title of Celben--the rest of the Lindi throughout Middle-Earth are Morben. Moving on though, the Guest-Elves probably seldom left Doriath and weren’t in much contact with their kin in Ossiriand, so it’s difficult for me to say how this impacted Ossiriand Green-Elves and Sindar’s relationship; it seems that there was a very dichotomous relationship between the two. But! Either way, the Green-Elves in and out of Doriath are kin and while that may have caused some tension--Teleri don’t like to be separated from their family and don’t do so lightly--they are still *kin* and would not take too kindly to their families being slaughtered over a jewel. I think that the Sack of Doriath would be enough “strain or provocation” to bring about their “dark hearted-ness.” 

Curses, Dooms and Prophecies in the Legendarium

“Now word went swiftly among the Elves of Ossiriand that a great host of dwarves bearing gear of war had down out of the mountains and passed over Gelion at the Ford of Stones. These tidings came soon to Beren and Lúthien; and in that time also a messenger came to them out of Doriath telling of what had befallen there. Then Beren arose and left Tol Galen, and summoning to him Dior his son they went north the river Ascar; and with them went many of the Green-Elves of Ossiriand...In that battle by Sarn Athrad Beren fought his last fight, and himself slew the Lord of Nogrod, and wrested from him the Necklace of the Dwarves; but he dying laid his curse upon all the treasure. Then Beren gazed in wonder on the selfsame jewel Fëanor that he has cut from Morgoths iron crown, now shining set amid gold and gems by the cunning of the dwarves; and he washed it clean of blood in the waters of the river. And when all was finished the treasure of Doriath was drowned in the river Ascar, and from that time the river was named anew, Rathlóriel, the Golden Bed…5”

I will not write out every curse, doom or prophecy. I am only going to list them. The point of me listing all of these out is to show just how much power these types of things have in the Tolkien Legendarium and even if they are a self-fulfilling prophecy, they tend to come true in some way. 

The Doom of Mandos

Mîm cursing Nargothronds treasure and the Nauglamir(in some variations)

The Dead Men of Dunharrow

The Curse of Morgoth; "the shadow of my thought shall lie upon them wherever they go." And the events after Húrins release

Eöl’s curse “...Here you may yet die the same death as I.”

Beleg to Túrin; “If I stayed beside you, love would lead me, not wisdom.”

Melian to Túrin; “There is malice in this sword. The dark heart of the smith still dwells in it. It will not love the hand it serves; neither will it abide with you long.”

Glaurung to Túrin; “...but thou carest not for that Glad may thy father be to learn that he hath such a son; as learn he shall”

Melian to Thingol; “For you have either doomed your daughter, or yourself. And now is Doriath drawn within the fate of a mightier realm.”

Huans Fate

The Lord of Nargothrond cursing the treasures of Doriath and the Nauglamir

There is more, but I think you get the point. 

I want to touch on how the River Ascar flows into the River Gelion and "...after Sirion Ulmo loved Gelion above all the waters of the western world.4" In addition to this, the Green-Elves of Ossiriand rely on their rivers, not only for the nourishment water provides but also "lived in the protection of their rivers.7" I also want to point out that Ascar is the most upstream river of Ossiriand. "Why does this matter," you ask, "What does this have to do with curses?" Well…. The meaning of Ascar is "rushing or imperious (moving forcefully or rapidly).10" In addition to the river's name signifying its nature, it's also written that "...[the rivers] fell steeply and very swift from the Mountains of Ered Lindon.9" So there is no way that cursed gold is staying put. If the Green-Elves were upset at having cursed gold in their river, that they rely on for protection, imagine how upset they'd be if there was cursed gold in the Galion, that borders all of their land. 

Personally, I think that if it were any other Elf-Lord, we would have had a different story. The Silmarillion has a tragic thing going on where, if a tragedy is prevented, another one would take its place. Here, if it was any other Elf who was in possession of the Silmaril, the Second Kinslaying may have been prevented, but the Silmaril wouldn’t go to Valinor. 

The Sindar and Green-Elves seem to have a dichotomous relationship, where the Sindar seem to accept them as kin, but also refer to them as outsiders. The Noldor (specifically the Sons of Fëanor) and the Green-Elves seem to have a better relationship, but there is some old bitterness between the Noldor and Teleri and any good relationship would’ve been destroyed following the Second Kinslaying. But to answer your question, what was going through that Elf Lords head? I think it was something along the lines of "Ah! Cursed Jewelry that has poisoned our river and has been the cause of many deaths, better get this out of here before the Sons of Fëanor or my fellow Green-Elves who like them more than Doriath find me!"

Commentary

References

1The Silmarillion, Of the Sindar

2 The Silmarillion, Of the Ruin of Beleriand

3The Silmarillion, Of the Fifth Battle

4The Silmarillion, Of Belerinad and its Realms

5The Silmarillion, Of the Ruin of Doriath

6HoME X, The Annals of Aman

7HoME XI, The Grey Annals

8https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/in-the-event

9HoME XII, The Shibboleth of Fëanor

10https://www.elfdict.com/w/ascar

11HoME XI, Quendi and Eldar pg 376-77, 381, 409

*I don’t like the term Nandor and I refuse to use it unless I have to. It’s derived from the primitive elvish word “ndandō” which means, “one who goes back on his word or decision.” “Primitive elvish” is used by Paul Strack to describe the internal (fictional) evolution of elvish. “Lindi” is what the Green-Elves called themselves.

**I am aware that the quote continues to contrast this with the relations between Sindar, Green-Elves and other Avari elves, but this talks about the second age so I chose to not include it. 

***”The Forsaken.” The Sindar named themselves this, but it only refers to Sindar who wanted to go to Aman but arrived late or looked for Elwë for too long. Círdan is their Lord and they are the most friendly towards the Noldor.

Note: Who knew superscript doesn’t work on tumblr? I’m not surprised, but sorry for numbers interrupting the reading

[paradife-loft]

some kinda belated thoughts from the rest of the first half of Two Towers...

ngl, I feel like this took me longer or at least felt like more of a slog, because I honestly just... don’t enjoy Gandalf very much. like - people not explaining what, much less why they’re dragging me somewhere or having me do something, is a massive pet peeve of mine. and that aspect of his operation just feels like it’s gotten turned up to eleven in this book.

there’s also how the setup for Saruman’s influence over Theoden being broken, and Grima being cast out, just doesn’t narratively... work for me. at all. I’m not sitting here emotionally irate the way I would be with a novel story, because the repeated familiarity of LotR has at least done the emotional work of establishing, yeah Grima’s a shitbag and working for Saruman. but the way in which any actual evidence of his guilt of the things he’s being accused of, is only displayed to the reader several chapters later... the actual confrontation scene relies on the reader taking the accuracy of Gandalf’s read on the situation at face value (and to a lesser extent, that of the soldiers at Edoras who refer to Grima as Wormtongue). which I don’t think is necessarily Bad Storytelling, but it feels like it’s coming from a narrative tradition where the personal character and nature of the characters gets a lot of load-bearing weight - which isn’t designed in the first place to stand up to aggressive situational nitpicking, and therefore... feels really unsatisfying when I come into contact with it and apply the usual script running in the background in my brain of, time for some aggressive situational nitpicking.

(incidentally, despite being heavy-handed and thus eyeroll-y as fuck, the way the film version introduces the characters and conflict in Rohan to us before we get Gandalf busting in like a newly-downloaded antivirus software, works a lot better for me in this regard.)

anyway, some other stuff, cut for length -

the worldbuilding in general continues to be the crunchy stuff I’m really into in this series. Helm’s Deep as the home fortress redoubt area of a specific local lord in Rohan, and the civilians protected in the caves being again, the local subjects of that particular lord, is exactly the sort of textured nuance and detail I love digging into in the Silm, that’s totally lost in the transition to the more streamlined movie narrative.

trolls are mockeries of ents in the way orcs are mockeries of elves !!

(there’s this one line in Merry’s narration of the fall of Isengard - “Their fingers, and their toes, just freeze on to rock; and they tear it up like bread-crust. It was like watching the work of great tree roots in a hundred years, all packed into a few moments.” - and I just love this, both the imagery and the sort of metaphysics happening.

...do ents photosynthesise??? or is ent-draught like, magical soylent smoothie.

I would. honestly love to get a lot more detail and lore on the Huorns. why can they cloak themselves in darkness? they’re scary as shit but also I love the uncontrollable alien-ness of them. and tbh they kind of feel akin to the overall vibe of the forest gods in Princess Mononoke. it’s good.

the exchange between Theoden and Merry & Pippin when the former comes to Isengard! so good! “Are not these the Halflings, that some among us call the Holbytlan?” // “Hobbits, if you please, lord.” // “Hobbits? Your tongue is strangely changed; but the name sounds not unfitting so. Hobbits!” -- and Theoden is also actually into the idea of Merry infodumping at him about the history of tobacco in the Shire?? and “So that is the King of Rohan!” said Pippin in an undertone. “A fine old fellow. Very polite!” -- I’m love ;u;

(ngl I feel like there’s something to be said for a certain amount of cultural kinship between the hobbits and the Rohirrim? the latter obviously having all the influences from Gondor, the more feudal sort of state organisation, etc., but at the same time, both of these peoples have a central identity around the working/shaping/stewardship of something growing and changing that exists in a partnership, as opposed to just being inert raw materials? Hobbits with their various garden species, and the Rohirrim with their horses, I mean. it’s neat.)

(I’m also just that person, bc even though I know it’s pipe-weed, it’s been established as pipe-weed in a zillion small narrative cues, I still get to the part where they’re opening up Saruman’s special personal shipment of valuable leaf material and go tea????? :DDD)

and finally, Pippin and the palantir! I think I’m still processing all the material in that chapter, but it’s definitely something I have a lot of feelings about. (one of them is “but what if Pippin and Feanorians road trip?” because. yeah.) ‘hmmmm curious valuable thing I just gotta poke at it aahhh’ is such a mood, as is his barrage of questions to Gandalf when they’re riding ahead of the rest of the group. he is a friend <3333 - and the whole, Pippin poking the palantir may well have been a net good and one of the better outcomes, because it allowed Gandalf to put together the pieces of what was up without having to poke it himself and getting massively fucked up and revealing all sorts of stuff to Sauron? (plus also providing implied misinformation to Sauron re: Saruman, having him off chasing that thread instead of focusing on what’s actually going on, etc.)

(the additional elaboration on the mechanism of the palantiri that we get - they don’t just inherently audo-dial each other, but rather the reason Pippin poking this one immediately got Sauron to pick up was because Saruman has been repeatedly “turning it toward Barad-dur”, and so that’s like its habit that would require a strong intentioned knowledgeable will to get it to do anything else right away... I’m also curious about the similarities/differences between the palantiri and the mirror of Galadriel? and what that suggests about the arts used to craft the former. gonna have to think on this one more.)

[reblogthiscrapkay]

1. Caranthir 2. Eowyn 3. Tom Branson 4. Riza Hawkeye 5. R2-D2 and ALL OF THE SITUATIONS.

Okay. Let’s try this.

·        Invite to dinner withparents

1. Tom Branson. Mymother would be SO PLEASED to have an attractive liberal Irishman at the tablethat she would probably demand that I marry him.

2. Caranthir. Nextbest scenario for my mom: an older, financially stable guy. She’d probably be alittle unsure about his hair\clothes\otherworldly vibe but she’s get over itbecause he’d probably be a very polite dinner guest.

3. R2-D2. My mom wouldbe more amused than anything.

4. Eowyn. She wouldprobably fit in okay at the table because she’s not super proper but still hasprincess training. She might be a bit too sad for my mom’s comfort but if youbring the topic over to how men can really suck, they’d be fine.

5. Riza Hawkeye. She actuallymight be a better dinner guest than Eowyn but my obvious love for her wouldmake my mom hella uncomfortable because apparently she believes bisexualitydoesn’t exist.

·        Shipwrecked on desertisland with

1.  R2-D2. R2 would be able to solve the problemalmost immediately and get us home.

2. Riza Hawkeye. She’dbe super calm and probably has already had some crazy military training thatwill help us both survive and escape.

3. Caranthir. Probablyhas some hands on “stuck in the middle of nowhere” experience but his primaryskill sets don’t apply here. Maybe he’s got a little Feanorian-making-stuffmentality that could assist in an escape.4. Eowyn. She’s slept in tents before and can kill things so it wouldn’t be toobad. No real chance of escape though.

5. Tom Branson. He’dprobably have less of an idea of what to do than I do. At least we could engagein amusing political discussions until we die from uselessness.

·        In a car chase with

1. Tom Branson. Duh.

2. Riza Hawkeye. Alsohas proven skill as a car chaser.

3. R2-D2. Okay, R2 maybe a better option than Tom and Riza, but Tom and Riza could chat with me whileit happens.

4. Eowyn. Skilledhorsewoman. Maybe it will translate.

5. Caranthir. He’djust get more and more pissed by the situation and probably crash us intosomething.

·        Shopping for formalwear with

1. Caranthir. I feellike he and I have similar styles and he probably has the most experience inthis area.

2. Riza Hawkeye. Hasdecent formal style but could very likely hate shopping as much as I do, whichcould be a blessing or a curse.

3. Eowyn. Our stylesare not very similar but she probably would be efficient about it.

4. Tom Branson. He hasno idea what he’s doing but would probably give helpful, honest critiques.

5. R2-D2. He wouldjust leave the store. This isn’t his arena at all.

·        On the run fromcorrupt authority figures with

Same as the car chaseone.

·        Trying to fixbroken-down automobile in the rain with

1. R2-D2. R2 fixes italone with minor complaints and we are on our way.

2. Tom Branson. He’scool, he knows what to do, and we’re done in a few minutes.

3. Caranthir. Getsangry but has good insurance so neither of us has to leave the car.

4. Riza Hawkeye. Chillabout it happening. Would try to fix it herself. Either way, she has okayinsurance and calls before she tries.

5. Eowyn.Is asunwilling to do anything about it as I am and would probably be angry.

·        Captured bysupervillain with

Let’s be realistic:all these options are decent except Tom Branson who would just probably pissoff the supervillain by trying to convince him that his behavior is just aresult of the unequal class system.

·        Wake up handcuffed to

1. Riza Hawkeye. She100% knows how to get out of handcuffs.

2. R2-D2. R2 wouldalso be able to get us uncuffed fairly quickly.

3. Tom Branson. Of theremaining three, he’d be the most okay with the situation. He’d actuallyprobably enjoying going to work with me honestly.

4. Eowyn. Would have ahuge initial freakout but then would enter into a kind of dissociative “itcould be worse” state.

5. Caranthir. Would becrazy pissed and demand that I do everything he wants to do.

·        Fake-married to forundercover reasons

1. Riza Hawkeye. Hasprobably done undercover missions before and is a surprisingly convincingactress when she needs to be.

2. Caranthir. He wouldn’t revealany bad information or ever get his stories mixed up but every single emotionhe has would show on his face. He’s not great spy material for that reason.Basically if he actually liked me, he would be very good at this but if hedidn’t like me, it might be way too obvious that the marriage is false.

3. Tom Branson. Not agreat actor and likely to accidently mix up stories but very committed to thecause.

4. Eowyn. She’d be aneven worse actor than Tom Branson. Would probably eventually give up on therouse and start killing her way to a finished mission.

5. R2-D2. Who wouldeven believe this …

·        To cut and style myhair

1. Riza Hawkeye. Well,she’s actually had haircuts and would probably be very careful.

2. Eowyn. Has probablyhad haircuts before. She probably wouldn’t be able to cut it as short as I likeit because it would feel wrong to her. Once I had it right though she’dprobably be envious of my manly hair as it’s more practical than hers.

3. R2-D2. Couldpotentially download a program to do it.

4. Caranthir. In spiteof never having a haircut in his life since it’s not a thing elves do, I thinkI trust his sense of aesthetics

5. Tom Branson. Has noidea what he’s doing. Sure to make it uneven.

·        To drag them away froma big fight because they’re injured

1. Riza Hawkeye. Of allof them, I think she’s the one who most likely knows when to quit.Actually, that’s it. Tom Branson, Caranthir, Eowyn, and R2 have no sense ofself preservation and probably all turn into rage monsters who would hurt me inthe process.

·        To drag me away from abig fight because I’M injured

I’d trust every one ofthem to do this well and also get revenge on my behalf.

·        Rewatch my favouritemovie/show with

1. Eowyn. For thereference, I am imagining us watching “Six Feet Under” and I think she’d enjoyit a lot and want to have a little talk after every episode.

2. Tom Branson. He’dalso like the show but occasionally get worked up about minor details that havenothing to do with the theme.

3. Riza Hawkeye. She’dlike the show but not discuss it as much as the others.

4. Caranthir. Hewouldn’t get the show, obviously, but would find it fascinating. Actually, in away, he might be the most fun to watch it with because he doesn’t totallyunderstand death.

5. R2-D2. Wouldbasically be like, “meh, humans.”

·        Leave in charge of myhome while I’m away

Riza Hawkeye, Caranthir, and R2-D2 would alldo a very good job of this. Eowyn and Tom Branson would probably accidentlykill my theoretical plants because they forgot to come by one day.

·        Study for an exam with

1. Riza Hawkeye. She’smeticulous and tenacious and patient.

2. Caranthir. He’smeticulous and tenacious but not patient.

3. Tom Branson. He’smeticulous and tenacious as long as the subject is history or politics.

4. R2-D2. Lacks ahuman touch but could provide some cool learning tools.

5. Eowyn. She comesfrom a land with no written tradition. I’d probably have to do all the work.

·        Sent to assassinate me

1. Caranthir. I feellike if I’m guaranteed to die, he would be the best option because he’dprobably kill me elegantly with poison while I’m sleeping and it would bepainless.

2. R2-D2. Probably hasa fast method to get it done with little fuss.

3. Riza Hawkeye. Sheshoots me in the head. Fast but messy.

4. Eowyn. I’d die bythe sword and it would be rough unless she gets a clean decapitation shot earlyon.

5. Tom Branson. Heruns me over with a car and I suffer a lot.

·        Cook dinner for

1. R2-D2. I wouldn’thave to do any cooking. I’ll just prepare some nice motor oil.

2. Tom Branson. Usedto bland meat and potatoes dishes so anything I make will probably feel like anexotic treat.

3. Riza Hawkeye. Wouldbe polite and maybe offer helpful suggestions although I don’t imagine she’smuch of a cook either. Praises the shit out of my dessert though.

4. Eowyn. Perfectlyfine with what I make. May tell me stories about how food is made in Rohan withthe slight implication that it’s better but she’s genuinely trying to behelpful, not rude.

5. Caranthir. Doesn’tsay anything rude to my face but he would genuinely be the least impressed bymy mediocre cooking.

·        Get into massiveargument with

1. Riza Hawkeye. Likeme, not a grudge holder and probably pretty logical about it.

2. Caranthir. Has afast heat up to anger but probably also a fast cool down to forgiveness.

3. R2-D2. I could justreprogram R2, right

4. Eowyn. Needs a lotof cool down time but ultimately not a big grudge holder.

5. Tom Branson. Hetakes that grudge to the grave.

·        Get caught in aquestionable position with 

1. Caranthir. Thedrama would be excellent. I really just would love to see how the shit wouldhit the fan after this.

2. Riza Hawkeye. Shewould do a good job of convincing people that it’s not what it looks like.

3. Tom Branson. He’ddo a less good job of convincing people that it’s not what it looks like butultimately I don’t think there’d be any bad consequences because he’s atrustworthy guy and people know it.

4. Eowyn. I would beheartbroken to know that I did anything to hurt Faramir.

5. R2-D2. I don’t wantto know what this means.

·        Work as bodyguard for

1. Eowyn. I will beatup Wormtongue for her.

2. Tom Branson. Hedoesn’t need a bodyguard so I’m pretty safe.

3. Caranthir. I’d bepretty useless but I’d get to live in his sweet mansion.

4. Riza Hawkeye. Whywould I be a bodyguard to the best bodyguard.

5. R2-D2. Really doesn’tneed a flesh bag protecting ‘em.

[vardasvapors]

reply post times whatever

simaethae replied to your post:                    some more replies                

   i think tho we may be cross-talking a little bc i honestly don’t feel like i often come across the phenomenon you describe? i get very irritated by victim-blaming or attempts to make it so that nothing is your faves’ fault, and i agree “they’re all just as bad other” is a shallow and boring take, but i’ve more often seen it in a context of… deepening complexity, it’s very difficult to achieve a good motive without unintended consequences, etc    

No yeah that’s probably true - I have seen the vague ruining thing a lot, so I’m super sensitive to it. But yeah, different fandom exposures can cause super different opinions or feelings about what the norm is or whatever. :) Like, idk, while IA that the deepening complexity thing can be done well, it eventually becomes obvious when a writer is actually doing it to deepen complexity/show things from a specific character’s personal perspective for its own sake/the larger story’s sake, and when a writer is doing it to try to make something else look worse in comparison to the thing they like. And like, I’ve had the impulse to do that too abut some things and know how tempting it is. But often it’s hard to tell right away, so resentment about the number of fics I have backspaced out of in the middle of like, chapter 5, when the shoe dropped, has just made me very touchy about it.

   i mean like, this is all fandom factional stuff, the feanorians were all dead about from maglor and celebrimbor by the time numenor was a thing and fortunately neither of them ever ended up involved with numenor outside certain distressing AUs, so i def think there’s a lot of scope for us just having… not stumbled across the same posts :p    

Oh no yeah totally! Errr...sorry if my ideas came all disjointed timeline-wise! I was just putting out like, examples of the phenomena I had seen -- I have not seen the, uh, The King’s Men were right stuff firsthand, but I have seen lots of the Feanorian stuff and of course I have seen lots and LOTS of the ‘make the Arafinweans in general awful in order to deny and discredit their moral high ground’ -- sometimes in the context of silencing the legitimacy or sympathy of their anger at the Feanorians about the mass murder against their maternal family’s/half their cultural heritage, and pretend that it’s just them being holier than thou or disloyal or sycophants -- but I’ve also seen it in other circumstances that weren’t just about the Feanorians, so the King’s Men thing kareenvorbarra mention def rings a bell in terms of that particular aspect of it.

    but what's unsympathetic about hubris? :p more seriously i'm into that kind of, tangle of sympathetic and shitty motives into this inextricable knot of fear and insatiable hunger, but that's just subjective personal taste                

Haha *insert one of those ‘oh you!’ gifs here* but no yeah I totally feel you on this, but I guess just....well, you know, the word ‘like’ as applied to characters is really headache-y and unclear tbh. Like...I really like their feelings but don’t like...them...? Like I find them sympathetic but not tragic, or...more empathetic than sympathetic, if that makes any sense...?

Like I think, ‘well, tbh, if i wasn’t someone living in a world where immortality doesn’t exist, but was instead an almost-elf who was almost-immortal living almost in sight of paradise full of immortals, how would i feel and behave about immortality and the possible prospect of becoming immortal and being denied something that i like to think just might maybe hold the possibility of making me immortal?’ and while the answer is not ‘massive colonial conquest of the inferior races to stoke my crumbling ego and feed the inevitably encroaching void’ it still......moves the needle :P

(Also I guess my greater interest in a more crystallized and sincere fear-of-death motive would probably back up to Tar-Minastir and Tar-Telperien)

elesianne replied to your post:                   some more replies                

   I want to click like on all your posts and replies where you speak for nuanced and interesting interpretations of canon/characters without unnecessary hate but instead I’m just going to leave this reply here    

awwww :) thank you! I’m glad i come off that way i guess, though imo i feel like a lot of my opinions are just ‘well idk which is right, but this one is wrong’ laziness

crocordile replied to your post:                some more replies                

   Honored u remember + like something I wrote uwu    

Always!!! <3 The ‘selling mastery over others as freedom’ etc. And tolkien putting a lot more thought into his depictions of idealism and fake idealism than people give him credit for  :)

unfortunatelyimaginary replied to your post: other replies

ack, I have to go to work so I guarantee this won’t be well written but I appreciate this whole Feanorians discussion so very much - Maedhros was my favorite character from the first time I read the Silmarillion but it makes me feel so uncomfortable to see his and his brothers actions treated lightly/excused because, well, it felt like something he/they wouldn’t approve of and that doesn’t quite sound right but I really don’t want to be late for work so apologiesifwrong

No yeah exactly, this makes total sense! It just comes off as so, tin-eared?