#same with tim but to a lesser degree

[wolfythewitch]

I very rarely hate characters but I dislike characters that remind me of me haha

[wow-thisismylifeiguess]

Cryptid Bruce

Martha and Thomas Wayne struggled to have a child for years and Thomas meets a shady man who tells him that a child will come to them soon

Thomas just ‘??? okaaaaaay’s him but in a week, Martha bursts into his office looking frazzled

“We’re being haunted.”

“….”

“Don’t give me that look, Thomas Wayne. The Manor. It’s haunted. Alfred! Tell him we’re being haunted!”

And Alfred comes in, also looking frazzled but to a lesser degree.

The two explain that things are moving around the Manor without any kind of explanation, but Thomas doesn’t believe them. Until he notices things in his office also being moved. The weirdest event is when they start hearing a child’s giggles. No explanation. None.

Not until Thomas, sleep deprived after going over paperwork for one too many hours, pops into the kitchen and…there is a child. Sitting on the kitchen counter.

The child, a boy, turns. Grins. Waves.

“Hi, daddy.”

—

Bruce, they name him, can melt into shadows. He finds it hilarious. Martha thinks she’s going to go grey at her young age. She adores him. Thomas adores him. He’s their son now.

The Waynes have a mysterious child, but they keep their private lives very private, so maybe they just successfully hid a pregnancy? And then a child. For…three years. They think Bruce is three, at least.

Despite how odd of a child Bruce is, they love him dearly. He’s some kind of miracle. A…very weird, possibly magical(?) miracle.

—

Dick thinks his adoptive father is strange. Extremely strange. Bruce makes absolutely no noise when he moves. He doesn’t cast shadows but he seemingly is able to *blend into them*. His smile, whilst genuine, seems a little too sharp.

He thinks he’s a vampire.

Bruce laughs so hard, he doubles over.

“No, but I am the Batman, so I guess you’re not far off.”

“…is this a joke?”

“Nope.”

“A dream?”

Bruce pinches him and Dick yelps.

Bruce doesn’t explain to Dick what he is, because he doesn’t have a clue himself. He just…is.

—

But when Jason comes along, he has a million and one questions. Bruce blinks at him.

“How did you do that? You literally *melted* into the shadows!”

Bruce shrugs.

“No. *No*. Explain.”

“I…can’t.”

“You said no secrets, B!”

Bruce puts his hands up defensively. “It’s not a secret! I really don’t know! It just…kind of happens.”

Jason stares at him. Bruce stands there. He seems to flicker? The edges of his body go a bit transparent and Dick knows he only does that when he’s stressed.

“Leave him alone, Jay. He’s telling the truth. He’s just…like that. But he’s still Bruce.”

It takes Jason two months to accept it. By then, his questions are more from genuine intrigue and wonder. He hides under Batman’s cape and somehow it’s spacious? It can even fit Dick at the same time. No one (but Bruce) can even hear them when they’re under there.

And then one day, when he goes to take a nap under Bruce’s cape, someone else is there.

“….B?”

“…”

“You know what I’m going to ask.”

“…”

“*Bruce*.”

“No real names, Robin.”

“No one can hear me!”

“…I didn’t kidnap him.”

“What his name?”

“Timothy Drake.”

“FROM DRAKE INDUSTRIES?”

And Tim wakes up, rubbing his eyes. He looks exhausted and way too skinny, and all of a sudden, Jason understands why Dick has cooed at him the first night Bruce brought him home.

“Um…hi.”

“B, we’re keeping him.”

Jason doesn’t need to see Bruce’s face to know he’s smiling.

—

Damian just…appears. Bruce suddenly understands his parents’ reactions to his first appearance because nearly the same exact thing happens. Bruce wakes up from a nap. He doesn’t need to sleep very often, something Tim finds incredibly annoying, declaring it to be *unfair*. He wakes up, and curled against his chest is…a boy. Who looks a *lot* like him.

“Uh.”

The child wakes up, blinks at him w striking green eyes.

“Hello Father.”

What the fuck.

Dick slams his way into Bruce’s office, followed by Jason and Tim, who are bickering with each other.

“DAAAAAAAD, THEY WON’T SHU- oh. Steal another kid?”

“…he just appeared.”

“That’s the excuse you used for Jason.”

“No. Literally. I fell asleep. No kid. Woke up. Kid.”

“My name is Damian.”

“That’s no fair. You came pre-named?”

Damian is as odd as Bruce. Actually, he’s weirder. And stabby. Bruce finds him *delightful*. He adores him.

—

Dick is Nightwing, Jason is Red Hood (no death, he just thought it was a cool name), Tim is Red Robin, and Damian’s Robin.

Bruce is Batman. Despite being in his late 30s, he still looks like he’s in his mid 20s.

—

Batman stands in front of a bank robber who’s going on about their evil bank robbing plans. Nightwing pops his head out from beneath Batman’s cape.

“Can you get to the point?”

Red Hood pops out next.

“I’m getting bored.”

Red Robin follows.

“This is sad.”

Damian.

“Scum.”

Batman sighs.

“Why are all of you here?”

“Missed you.”

They all chime in.

The robber.

“How…how the *fuck-?*”

“Language. There are kids around.”

“B, I’m 23.”

“Says the boy taking a nap in my cape. And I was talking about Red Robin and Robin.”

“…’s comfy.”

“I’m eighteen???”

“F- Batman! I am not a child!”

There’s some shuffling sounds, no doubt Red Hood moving over to ruffle Robin’s hair.

“Whatever you say, Tiny Demon.”

And then Red Hood shrieks.

“No stabbing your brothers, Robin.”

“He called me small!”

“…you are.”

“This is insulting, F- Batman. I will grow to be as big as you. No. *Bigger*.”

The robber watches in confusion, mild amusement, and horror.

Batman sighs.

“We’ll talk about this later. Now, you were saying? Blowing up the bank, terrorizing the people.” Batman yawns. “Anything else?”

“Just take me to Arkham. I think I’m insane.”

[lena-thinks-too-much]

Random Batfam Headcanon:

The batkids have different levels of separation for when Bruce is Bruce and when he's batman

Jason has zero separation. For him they are one and the same and it's largely the cause of their issues. He can't separate the vigilante from his dad. He refers to Bruce and batman interchangeably.

Tim is on the opposite side of the spectrum. To him Bruce and batman are completely distinct individuals. Tim viewed robin as almost a job that you clock in and get your hours. There are aspects of tim that are integral to his vigilante work it is not his central identity. While he understands that it's not the same for Bruce and that Batman is more than just a job for him, he still applies a similar mentality towards him. In the mask or while doing anything related to vigilante work he's batman. If he's giving any degree of an emotional display, he's Bruce.

Dick's the most in tune with Bruce's state of mind. It doesn't really matter if he's in uniform or not, his distinction between batman and Bruce is more based on behavior and context. Sometimes he might look like Batman but one of his kids are hurt and the only person he can be is Bruce the dad. Sometimes he's out in civvies in public but every muscle is tense and dick knows he's looking at batman not his dad.

Damian, very much like Jason, struggles to separate Bruce from batman. To him they're one and the same. His Dad is Batman. That's what he was raised to believe and to him Bruce is inherently always Batman. It causes some tension for him too, but not as much as it does Jason.

Cass is similar to Dick but to a lesser degree. She's able to tell when his actions comes from Batman the vigilante versus Bruce the Dad, but, to her, the separation isn't as important as it is to her brothers. Bruce and Batman are both two parts of the same person and to Cass he will always be the combined whole

Steph doesn't really see a difference between Bruce and Batman. But to her them being the same person doesn't really matter. Idk neither Bruce nor Steph really give that much of a shit about each other. They tried to work together, it was a train wreck. They just kinda coexist when they need to and ignore each other's existence when they don't.

Duke is still figuring out where Bruce ends and Batman begins. Ironically he might have the healthiest approach to this. He understands that Bruce and Batman are two identities with a lot of overlap so his separation has less to do with identifying what's going on with Bruce and more just keeping the identities separate for security purposes. In the mask he's Batman because Signal can't be caught calling him Bruce. Any other time he's Bruce because Bruce Wayne is not a superhero, no siree.

Bonus:

For Bruce himself Batman is his true identity. Bruce is only slightly more real than Brucie. I don't remember if it was in a comic or a show, but there is a scene where someone subjects Bruce to a truth serum or something to find out his identity and we find out that even in his inner monologue he thinks of himself as Batman not Bruce. He has his own distinction and is able to compartmentalize his more vulnerable and emotional sides when he needs to. But we all know Bruce isn't great at emotionally removing himself ever.

Conversely, for Alfred, he is always Bruce. Cowl or no cowl, that is the boy he raised and it will always be that way.

[charlietheepicwriter7]

V Secret Identities

Dick Grayson V Gotham - Chapter 3

“So, what do you have so far on the Red Hood case?” Dick asked Bruce, trailing behind him on the way down to the Batcave. He felt better, looser, after their fight. Maybe they could fit in a spar before breakfast? 

“Not much.” Bruce’s voice sunk into Batman’s gravelly voice . It was a code-switching thing, he suspected; just being in the Batcave puts Bruce in Batman’s headspace. It happened to a lesser degree when he and Jason were Robin, but once Tim took on the cape, Bruce and Batman became as different as night and day. 

Batman continued, “He’s a ghost in Gotham’s underground. No one knows who he is, or where he goes. Three weeks ago, he started targeting the drug dealers in Crime Alley, forcing them to work for him or die.” He tapped a few keys on the Batcomputer and brought up Red Hood’s file. “Needless to say, he’s developing his own gang at a rapid pace.”

“Red Hood, huh?” Dick studied the only picture Tim had managed to nab of the man. He looked tall, with broad shoulders covered in body armor similar to Batman’s. All features were covered by a matte red helmet. “That’s one of Joker’s old aliases. Any connection?”

“Not one that’s readily apparent. He chose the name for a reason , but until we interrogate him, there’s nothing that indicates a connection.”

Dick flipped through the file, landing on a report detailing the execution of multiple mafia lieutenants. “Nothing he’s been doing really connects with the Joker. Except for the killing.” The heads sent to the police was clearly a warning. Joker didn’t do warnings, not unless he was taunting them. “You said he’s building his own gang, right? Do you think he intends to take over Crime Alley ?”

“He’s certainly looking to put Black Mask out of business.” Batman switched to a video, an alley camera showing Red Hood beating several gangsters to death. “He's taking down the competition to establish his own control over the city's crime. His methods are brutal and lethal. He’s not just stopping criminals; he’s executing them. At the same time, he’s establishing rules in his own territory.”

“Rules?” Each gang had their own rules on how to operate, but in the end, their codes all sounded the same to Dick. 

“No selling drugs to kids. There’s more to it than that, but Hood’s morals are being enforced through violence and fear.”

“So, once Hood’s arrested, everything going to get worse because of a power vacuum. Great. At least this is a concrete difference between Hood and the Joker.” Dick didn’t know what he’d do if Red Hood was a Joker copycat. The name kept bugging Dick. Criminals liked to make names for themselves. It's a way to instill fear, to create an identity that stands out in the criminal underworld. But the Red Hood… it was one of Joker’s lesser known aliases. So why would someone else take up that mantle? Is it a way to mock the Joker, to reclaim the name from one of Gotham's most infamous villains? Or is it something more personal?

Dick asked again, “And we don’t know the connection between them?” 

Batman shook his head. “It could be a symbolic gesture, a way to reclaim the mantle from the Joker, or a means to instill fear. Or it might be something more personal that we’re not seeing yet.” He scowled. 

Turning back to the Batcomputer, Dick restarted the video. It was one of the few they had of the Red Hood. “What does Tim think?”

“Tim’s not on the case.” Dick immediately shot Bruce a glare. “Red Hood is a volatile unknown who has shown remarkable aggression towards Batman. As skilled as Robin is, I’ve asked him to step away from this case.”

“And he listened?”

A sigh. “No. I gave him a few unsolved murders to keep him entertained while we deal with this.”

Dick snorted. “Well, that’s not going to work for long. What’s the plan for when he solves them?”

“Sending him off to Titans Tower. But that’s only if we don’t catch Red Hood ourselves.”

The Teen Titans were good for Tim, especially after the disaster that ended Young Justice. Hopefully Tim wouldn't feel thrown away; maybe Dick should call him more regularly? His little brother needed him, he’d just lost his father , but Dick didn't want to make him feel smothered, Tim had complained about that in past- "There." Dick rewound the video a few frames, then let it play in slow motion. Red Hood redirected a punch to the face, smoothly twisted the arm around, and then threw his attacker over his shoulder, dislocating the man's shoulder in the process. "That's a League of Shadows move." A little further along and- "And that's a move that Lady Shiva created herself."

"His fighting style indicates he's had a wide variety of teachers, perhaps even more than me," Batman said as the Red Hood on screen pulled off a move Dick had only seen Talia Al Ghul perform before.

"Have you asked Talia about him?"

"...She hasn't been picking up my calls."

Joy. "He could be ex-League. That would explain all his weapons and tech. That helmet, it's not just for show. It's advanced, probably customized. Has anyone taken credit for designing his gear?"

"Oracle's keeping an eye on the dark web, but nothing so far. If he is League, nothing's going to show up, but-"

The clack of shoes on stone interrupted them. Alfred had descended the stairs from the manor and was staring at them both, unamused. "Pardon me for the interruption, gentlemen, but breakfast is served."

Dick immediately obeyed the unspoken demand and locked the Batcomputer. "Thanks, Alfie." He smiled, placing a hand on Alfred's shoulder. "But you really didn't have to come down here to get us. The intercom would have worked."

Alfred raised one thin eyebrow. "Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case since you lived here, Master Dick. Both Master Bruce and Master Tim have developed an unfortunate habit of ignoring the intercom in favor of work."

Bruce didn't even have the decency to look regretful.

With their accent into the manor, Dick spoke, "No talking about our night life around Danny, okay?"

Their eyes widened. "He doesn't know?" Bruce asked.

"He's only met Nightwing once, and he's a heavy sleeper. He hasn't found out yet and I want to keep it that way."

Alfred pursed his lips. "He'll be upset when he finds out."

"I'd rather he be upset than him putting on a costume and jumping out the window after me."

"You're worried he'll want to help you?"

Dick glared at Bruce's amused smile. “Yeah, yeah, I see the irony. The best revenge is raising a child just like you , I get it. But I’m already having enough difficulty keeping him away from my police cases, he’d only get worse if he knew I was a vigilante too.”

They got to the dining room before Tim and Danny, giving Dick just enough time to pull a booster seat out of storage. “When did we last use this?” The booster seat matched the dark wood of the family dining room table and chairs, with a cushion to match. 

Bruce looked between the booster and Dick. “Probably when you were eight.”

“I never needed to use a booster seat!” Dick immediately defended, trailing off as Tim and Danny entered the room, Danny holding Tim’s hand. Dick glared; this conversation was not over. 

The table was already set: Bruce at the head of the table, with two seats on the right, and one seat on the left. As Dick was about to ask Danny to sit beside him, Danny dragged Tim over to one of the seats on the right, grabbed his booster seat without a word, and claimed the chair next to Tim. “Danny? What are you doing?”

Danny scowled at Tim. “If I don’t make him eat, Tim’s not gonna eat. So, Tim’s gonna sit here until everyone else is done, and if he doesn’t eat, he can’t have ice cream with us today.”

“We’re taking Timmy to get ice cream with us?” Dick asked as he took his seat across from them.

Tim shrugged. “Apparently.”

“Yes, we are! And you better not have forgotten, you promised!”

“Okay, okay.” Dick laughed. At least Danny and Tim were getting along better than he and J–

Breakfast began with an awkward silence, broken only by the clinking of utensils. Bruce finally broke the ice. "So, Dick, how's work been at the precinct?"

Dick was about to respond when Danny, his eyes lighting up, jumped in. "We just solved a couple of murder cases! They were really tricky, but we figured them out."

Bruce's interest was piqued. "Oh? And how exactly were you involved in these cases, Danny?"

Danny shrugged nonchalantly. "I just helped out a bit. I'm good at noticing things."

With some prompting from Bruce, Danny launched into an enthusiastic explanation, detailing how he and Dick pieced together the clues. Dick sat back and let Danny talk. Danny’s medium abilities weren’t something he’d planned to talk about with his family despite Danny being open about their existence. It didn’t bother Dick that Danny was a meta, but it was like Danny had no hesitation in telling everyone. Kids got trafficked all the time in Bludhaven, especially meta kids like Danny. And Danny was running around telling people about his powers, conning them into paying him to speak to dead family or friends.

Dick was half-expecting to turn on the TV in the evening to learn that one of Danny’s past marks had blabbed and then everyone would know that Richard Grayson’s foster son was a meta. 

“-Honestly, the Hollydale Gang Murders is why I think those cases you were looking at are actually the work of a serial killer,” Danny was telling Tim, to Dick’s alarm. “The murder weapon keeps changing and the victims are unconnected, but there are too many similarities! They were all ambushed, all identifying features were damaged, all dumped in dumpsters–”

“Yeah, but all those things happen a lot with Gotham murders. You have to look for connections beyond that–”

Bruce held up a hand. “Wait, hold on. Tim, you told Danny about those murder cases?”

Tim shrunk in his chair. It seemed to dawn on him for the first time that Dick hadn’t told Danny about the vigilantism. “Yes? Was I not supposed to?”

Bruce pinched the bridge of his nose, sighing. “Yes. No.” Another sigh. “What’s done is done. Danny, do you mind keeping this to yourself? Those murder cases you and Tim have been working on... I was the one who arranged for Tim to get them. I had to pull a lot of strings to make it happen.”

“Why?”

Bruce sighed. "Tim has a very particular set of skills and interests. Solving these cases is more than just a hobby for him—it's a way for him to channel his energy and make a difference. But it's also something that needs to be kept quiet. Not everyone would understand or approve."

Danny's eyes widened in realization. "So, you’re saying Tim wouldn’t be getting these cases without you?"

"Exactly. And I need you to stay quiet about it. If word got out, it could cause a lot of trouble, not just for Tim but for everyone involved."

Danny thought for a moment, a mischievous glint appearing in his eye. "I see. So, this is pretty important to you, huh?"

Bruce raised an eyebrow, sensing where this was going. "Yes, it is."

"Well," Danny said slowly, "keeping secrets can be tough. Might need a little incentive to make sure I don’t accidentally let something slip."

Bruce folded his arms. "What do you have in mind?"

"A hundred dollars should do it," Danny said, trying to keep a straight face but failing to hide a small grin.

“Danny…” Dick tried to scold, but Bruce patted his shoulder. 

Bruce stared at Danny for a moment, then let out a low chuckle. "Alright, chum. You've got a deal." He pulled out his wallet and handed Danny a crisp hundred-dollar bill. "Just remember, this isn't a game. Keeping this quiet is important."

Danny rolled his eyes. “Yeah, I know . I’m not going to spoil all my fun.” Everyone flinched, but Danny was too busy stuffing away his ill-gotten gains to notice. “Tim’s my first friend who shares one of my hobbies; I don’t want to lose him just because it’s kinda illegal.”

Tim looked touched. “Thanks, Danny. I don’t want to lose you too.”

They finished breakfast with Dick smiling at Danny and Tim–he was so happy they were getting along that his chest ached. As Danny left to use the bathroom, Dick pulled Tim aside. 

“I already know,” Tim said, clearly expecting a lecture. “I shouldn’t have assumed you’d already told him about our identities. I’m sorry.”

Dick pulled his baby bird into a hug. “I’m not mad; I just wanted to check in with you.” He pulled away enough so he could look at Tim. The bags under his eyes had only gotten deeper since they last met, and his hair was greasy, like he’d skipped his last few showers. “How are you holding up?”

First Stephanie, then his father. Timmy was losing so much in such a short period of time. 

Tim didn't look him in the eye. "I'm fine," he replied, his voice hollow and distant.

“Timmy…”

“I’m fine , Dick.” Timmy pushed him away. He was shaking. “This is just… something I have to deal with. It doesn’t involve you.”

“It does involve me because I care about you!”

“Yeah, you cared so much that you adopted a kid without telling me.” Dick opened his mouth, but Tim wouldn’t let him speak. “Oh, sorry, you’re fostering a kid. My bad. There’s so much difference between the two.”

“I’m sorry.”

Tim closed his eyes. “I’m sorry too. I’m not… I shouldn’t be taking things out on you.” Dick reached out for another hug, only to be rebuffed. “I want to be alone right now.” Turning away, Tim disappeared down the hall, leaving Dick alone.

@starlightcat04 @maeashryver @widderwise @darkstarsapocalypse @sisma @luminanightfall @storm-fire98 @amyheart19 @collectingthegoods @redhoneysugarorange @lordfirecat2004 @screechingnoises @meira-3919 @dannyphannypack @satisfactionbroughtmeback @rowanaway-fromthisbs @i-always-say-yea @avelnfear @some-rotten-nest @ark12 @heirxofxtime @akikkobara @blep-23 @skulld3mort-1fan @markus209 @stargirl1331 @onlyhereforthechaos @inth3world @awkwardmaiden @fantasticbluebirdfan @currant-owo @alice-hazelwood @screamingtofillthevoid @crystalqueertea @gaelicholiday @gmkelz11 @mattybook1987-blog @bytheoldwillowtree @apointlessbox @chemical-pepis @ghostface3100 @idontgetpaidenoughforthisshit @bathildaburp @boo-ghosties @bubblemixer @halfalix @lyra689 @dragon-dancer16 @lunadoll36 @mimilikey @hellomygay @frogs-are-pretty-awesom @overtherose @cyrwrites @your-emo-nightmare @lexdamo @roman4517 @a-slytherinish-gryffindor @raginblastocyst @thegatorsgoose @fisticuffsatapplebees @olivethetreebitch @vixen-uchiha @ae-vixrose @joseph557 @kisatamao @gin2212 @thewondersoflebanon @d4ydr34min9 @malice-of-the-sunrise @tiblii @that-awkward-fae-nerd @aph-mable @dolfay @ghostreblogging @wackyattack @writer-extraordinaire @boo-ghosties @coruscateselene @emergentpanda-blog

[takendruid]

Okok so, requesting some help from StephCass shippers, and maybe also TimSteph shippers/people who know decent amount of information about TimSteph’s relationship

Can you guys, StephCass shippers, explain to me the reasons why you ship them?

I don’t know nearly enough about Steph or Cass, or their relationship to each other, to make a proper judgement of the ship.

It always kind of felt weird to me, because it just felt like Batcest even though Steph isn’t actually Bruce’s kid. And then I actually started to think about why the ship makes me uncomfortable in a batcest way, before having the realisation that I simply don’t know enough about either girl or the relationship they have with each other (nor Steph’s relationship with Tim) to justify feeling that way.

I’m relatively new to the Batman fandom, so I’m still learning a lot. And this is something I feel like I need to be educated on before I can actually make a judgement of the ship.

Because I only found out today that the reason Tim and Steph broke up was apparently because Tim is bisexual?? I already knew he’s bi, I didn’t)t know that apparently that was the reason they broke up (but don’t quote me on that, and feel free to correct me).

I have started to read the comics, but there are so many comics that I just… need that shit explained to me. Tim and Steph’s relationship kind of also made me uncomfortable because Batcest, but to a bit of a lesser degree, before I had the same realisation about TimSteph that I did with StephCass; that I know basically fuck all about their relationship to each other because I’m a newbie, and very uneducated.

The way I have always perceived Steph and Cass has just been as sisters, and Steph and Tim as exes who are still close and have a very sibling-like relationship. Before realising, obviously, that I just know fuck all.

This post, and request for an explanation comes from a place of genuine confusion and curiosity, not any hate. I do just need the StephCass ship explaining to me because I genuinely don’t know very much about either girl, or their relationship to each other.

Sorry I keep repeating myself ✌️ (under the cut isn’t anything really relevant to what I’ve talked about here, it’s just an explanation of what I have seen comics-wise)

Idk if anyone is going to ask, but when it comes to the comics, I have started actively reading some currently releasing ones like Batman & Robin: Year One, and Absolute Batman. I have also bought Absolute Superman and Absolute Wonder Woman, but haven’t gotten around to reading them yet. I’m perfectly aware that the Absolute comics are basically AUs/is an AU (idk if they carry into one another), and that B&R:Y1 is of a retelling of Dick’s origins as Robin???

I have actively read the two issues of Red Hood Gotham War, and the surrounding issues in Batman and Catwoman that take place at the same time (Bruce… what the fuck… writers, what kind of mischaract-). I wouldn’t say I have “read” either RHATO, but I have skimmed through the one with Artemis and Bizarro; from when Jason is kind of… disowned-ish by Batman as a Bat, up to about when the group of kids were introduced (because I wasn’t reading it properly, I got super confused and just stopped looking). But I have read more closely the Prince of Gotham issues when looking at it a second time for a quick moment. I have also skimmed through the early issues of both RHATO comics. Jason is my favourite character, so I have kind of tended to look at official stuff more aimed around him. That is why I know pretty much fuck all about Steph and Cass.

I briefly know their backstories, I know that Steph became Robin for like 2 weeks after Tim was fired, I know that Tim and Steph were dating. But I haven’t actually read anything official with them in besides RHGW, which includes like a panel or so of Steph as Spoiler.

And yes, I have read most of WFA (I need to catch up) but I’m perfectly aware of the context it existsin; it’s not official, it’s slice of life, it’s a webtoon, and it does not properly represent the characters… even though (some of the) said characters have been so disgracefully mischaracterised by the official comics that WFA doesn’t deserve the amount of shit it gets for doing the same thing, or so I have heard.

I’m not claiming to know my shit, I think that’s pretty obvious. I trust the people on Tumblr to not treat me like shit because the community here is lovely. But I know there are going to be the odd people that might pull me up if I don’t clarify what comics I have actually read and seen. Or maybe not pull me up? More just be curious to actually know my level of knowledge from the official sources, instead of people on the internet talking about it.

[gotham-daydreams]

Who do you think is the worst yandere to the best?

Now that is an interesting question! Though I'll be answering in terms of the Batfam since- well, most of my posts have been about them so far! Hope you don't mind!

Honestly, I believe it depends on the situation and what someone deems as 'bad' or just 'manageable.' Since different people have different tolerances to different things and such. Though without going on a more lengthy ramble, I'll try to answer the question to the best of my ability via 'basic' behaviors.

For manipulation/general manipulative behavior, the list would probably go something like:

Alfred, Dick, Bruce, Tim, Damian, Jason, Cass, Babs, and Steph

All the members of the Batfam can definitely have their moments of manipulation, with a good few opting to instead manipulate the environment/surroundings of their Darling/Fixation above all else. Though I easily view Alfred as the worst, and even if some places can be mixed and swaped out in the list, I don't really see Steph as a strong manipulative type. (Some people on the list do kind of share spots, though. Since I see Dick and Bruce on the same level when it comes to manipulation, and maybe even Babs and Cass as well. (Though I'm unsure about that, in all honesty.))

For kidnapping? Maybe something like:

Cass, Jason, Bruce, Tim, Dick, Damian, Steph, Babs, and Alfred.

Cass and Jason are easily the worst affendors, and will kidnap their Darling in a heartbeat, especially if they feel like said Darling is in danger. The rest of the placements is overall because of time, but also a little bit of how they'd treat their Darling once kidnapped. Babs and Alfred are only so low because they prefer a more hands-off approach, but Alfred is more adamant on sticking to it.

Overall behavior? Oof, that definitely comes down to tolerance, and what one would view as bad or manageable. Since they all are pretty bad in some cases, but pretty good in others. For a yandere, anyway.

When it comes to being clingy Dick, Cass, and Damian are pretty bad, but Babs and Alfred are pretty good about it. Not to mention that Alfred's version of being clingy is more hands-off. Though Jason and Steph definitely have their moments, and maybe depending on the situation- one could be worse than the other. Bruce can fluctuate, but mostly just has his moments.

Possessiveness? That's where it can get a little interesting. Since the list would be:

Alfred, Damian, Dick, Jason, Cass, Bruce, Tim, Babs, and Steph.

Though don't let this list fool you! The lowest level of possessiveness for these guys is still pretty high, I'd say. Even if some are more outwardly intense about how possessive they are and can be, if there were a way to measure it even without seeing the entire picture, Alfred would definitely have the highest number. No questions asked.

Obsessive-ness? I think this could be a little more obvious.

Alfred, Tim, Bruce, Dick, Jason, Damian, Steph, Cass and Babs.

Tim just has a constant need to know everything about his darling, while Alfred already knows. Bruce, Dick, and Jason I can kind of see being on a similar level but to certain degrees- and honestly depending on situations and such Dick and Jason might switch places. Steph's obsession comes mostly out of impulse, strangely enough, and while Cass does keep in mind every little thing she learns about her darling, I feel like she'd like to know about it first hand and wouldn't go super crazy over it. For Babs, she also kind of already knows some things about her Darling, and maybe even make a file, but generally keeps things in mind to essentially weaponize them. Only really focusing and obsessing over what she loves about her darling, but even then she's much better about it when compared to the others.

Again, these are more general as they can shift and change depending on the situation, but they're all pretty bad. What's considered 'lesser'/'better' in the Batfam is still rather high, and that is something to keep in mind. Since even if someone is at the bottom of a list, doesn't necessarily mean that they rarely experience/indulge/do whatever the list is for.

Honestly to really answer the question, I don't know who I would personally consider the 'best', since they are all god awful in their own ways. When it comes to the Batfam in particular, I think they're all just a little too 'intense' or messed up to be 'the best' compared to the others. They all have their moments in certain situations where they are the worst, despite being the best in some other situations.

In other words, I'm overthinking it and can't un-overthink it. They're all just bad, and again, where one might seem like the best, they could be the worst and vice versa depending on certain factors. I feel like there really is no "Best" for the Batfam, but if I absolutely had to put a name down because my life depended on it or something, I'd say Damian? Only while he's young, however.

He's a menace and isn't afraid to cause harm, don't get me wrong, I'm fully aware of how he is. But, in overall terms of behavior and how potentially manageable he could be? He'd be the easiest one to handle. In my opinion.

Though if he's grown up? Eh- that becomes more debatable.

Though who I'd consider the absolute worst? Alfred. Just, Alfred.

It isn't even how obsessive and possessive he truly is, along with how manipulative he will and can be. But rather how none of it is obvious.

As a yandere or darling you'll never be able to tell just how bad Alfred actually is. Since he rarely ever shows it, and even if he does have his impulses- he knows how to control himself. He's raised Bruce and has helped raise the Batfamily as a whole. Of course he knows how to control himself, of course he knows how to do all of these things. Not to mention the life he's lived before becoming a Butler for the Wayne's.

Alfred is so good that even if his darling finds out, they're going to doubt themselves. They won't even believe it and that will just make it easier for Alfred to manipulate them, because that is Alfred's specialty when it comes to this. Subtly.

He might be blunt and sassy with some of the things he says, but is very subtle with the seeds he plants, and how he plants them.

But who knows? That's just my opinion, after all! :]

[phoenixwritessmut]

intimacy headcanons about bottoms (2023)

okay, so i have a lot of feelings about this movie right here. i watched it in theatres with one of my bestfriends, and we couldn't stop talking about it afterwards - more specifically, headcanons we had about the fight club OG members and their reactions to sexual intimacy.

hear me out, okay.

PJ (we start with the queen who started it all): - talks a big game but actually wildly unknowledgeable about everything to do with the female orgasm. - is a bottom. it's in the title, it's in her genes, it's in her jeans. - has a controversy kink (cute cheerleaders, chicks that can make shit explode) and will vehemently deny that she likes the thrill of crushing out on someone she ABSOLUTELY has no business crushing on. - learned halfway through the movie that she's into pain!

Josie (the brains of the operation... sometimes): - pimpy as fuck. she thought she'd be shy and nervous, but when she gets going she's three steps from being the hugh hefner of lesbians. - she's a top, but a service top who will let her girl do the 'topping' if she wants to (and by girl, i mean Isabel). - secret collection of toys "just in case" she needs the help with her stamina (girl just recovered from a broken arm)... spoiler alert, they use absolutely none of them and still run for like four to six rounds. - too embarrassed to admit she used to watch videos to "take notes".

Hazel (my baby, she is everything to me): - is baby girl, but is also daddy depending on her mood (and what PJ is into at the time) but is precious none the less. - refuses to turn the lights off because she likes to watch you both during and after the throes of passion. - lowkey but also kind of highkey enjoys public displays of affection after the kiss that started the straight up murder of an entire football team of teenage boys (also enjoys shoving it in Tim's face that she's got a girlfriend, and he's got... Jeff!). - ridiculously good at what she does but doesn't brag... instead PJ brags to everyone for her, and she ends up with a reputation.

Isabel (shiny, shiny, shiny, shiny): - first time she slept with Josie, she lost all hope that a man would ever know how to satisfy her - or another woman for that matter. - seems like she would be a pillow princess but is actually extremely into giving, and fights with Josie all the time over "topping". - gets turned on watching Josie break people's noses (it's happened a few times, all to the same effect) and isn't ashamed to admit it. - went to Hazel for tips on how to do things, before word even got out that Hazel was a pro... Isabel just had the feeling that Hazel knew.

Brittany (token straight girl... literally the token straight girl): - since turning down PJ, has kissed more girls than the entire club combined (it doesn't help that half of them are all into each other). - wavers on the border of being bi-curious, but just didn't know how to turn down PJ gently, also just not ready to fully come out yet. - definitely fantasizes about women while she's with her boyfriend though. he knows and doesn't really mind about that. - stands by Hazel deserves better than PJ, and if she were just five percent more into women, she'd steal poor Hazel away in a heartbeat.

and to a lesser degree, we had some headcanons about everyone else...

Stella-Rebecca (the regina george, only nicer): - looks like a pillow princess, absolutely is a pillow princess. - into some crazy ass shit; things that the rest of the girls won't even search online for until they're at least twenty-five, married, and bored in their current intimacy lives.

Sylvie (let's crowdfund to get this girl some help): - looks like she'd be in charge, is also a pillow princess, but is completely unashamed to admit that she prefers receiving. - has been hooking up with Annie since the second meeting of fight club. only Hazel knows, but she isn't a snitch.

Annie (you fool nobody, you a freak my dear): - has been hooking up with Sylvia since the second meeting of fight club, when she very concerned about the girl's homelife asked her out for dinner to "talk" and then they ended up spending the entire night together, before they kissed and fooled around a little bit, and Annie told herself for the longest time she was only doing this to make Sylvie happy because the girl is wildly unhappy, only to realize that she's the unhappy one and Sylvie makes her happy. - doesn't know that Hazel knows about them. she aint a snitch.

and for extra bonus points... we had lots of feelings about this.

Jeff (i'm saying he counts, so there): - has never found THE spot, ever. - had to practice with Tim on how to take a bra off because he kept getting confused by all of the buckles and "why is there so many straps? why do they even need these things? can't i rip it? what if i just buy them a new bra after? okay fine." - genuinely does not realize that Mrs. Callahan's daughter Hazel goes to his school and knows his girlfriend, until he is confronted by them. - falls asleep thirty-six seconds after he finishes like a lazy ass.

[feminist-furby-freak]

about this post of yours:

https://www.tumblr.com/feminist-furby-freak/741545317484347392/even-from-the-same-sources-nhs-and-cdc-mens?source=share

why are TIMs not advocating for "people w prostates" and "ppl w testicles" language too? cuz isn't that also "misgendering"? (maybe im misunderstanding the point of ur post though. like I get that they call "ppl w cervixes" inclusivity, and by them not doing it w men too, it's a double standard. is it abt controlling women, and how we identify ourselves as a group? I don't fully understand what their goal is for this "inclusivity" to be one way?

again, maybe im j misunderstanding the point of your post but I don't get -- if its abt being inclusive of misgendering -- it doesn't apply to both?

or is it not directly TIMs and instead like cis-identified males only caring abt using "inclusive" language when it doesn't interfere w what they want to do (call themselves men too and not "ppl w prostates")?

it j feels weird being yelled at all day (I'm exaggerating ofc) abt girldick, so why would TIM be okay w other stuff being j called men? (I'm assuming they are not okay w it, but I see it doesn't matter practically as people are still saying men and then "ppl w cervixes")

sorry for the long ask!! thanks for your help!

Ding ding ding. Yes this is a lesser discussed point. The double standard is proof that it is not about being invalidated or inclusivity. TIMs know that they are men and know that “men should be screened for prostrate cancer” applies to them. They whine about everything from not being included in period campaigns to individual lesbians not letting them rape her. They don’t complain about being included in men’s health because they don’t actually care abt inclusivity they just want to insert themelsves into women’s spaces. Not to mention, they have never had barriers to healthcare because of their sex so they don’t care. Removing the word women from medical language is about further breaking down the category and meaning of “women” and making it harder for us to organize and talk about our issues. That’s it.

TIMs hate the idea that there are some (now, very few) spaces and resources that are not and will never be accessible to them. The last remaining one is gynecology and obstetrics. That is why they have this campaign against “Women’s Health” as a field. As someone pursuing graduate education in the field yeah my degree is still called Women’s Health and Midwifery but in most academic spaces we do this stupid dance around language. My undergraduate women’s health journal changed to “gender minority to health” and said I couldn’t use a picture of a uterus with my article about childbirth because it’s exclusive. This is actually why I left. In a country where more women die every year from complications of birth, “activists” are campaigning to make it harder to discuss and research women’s healthcare. Soon it will be practically impossible to talk about women’s health at all. A few years ago when the gender movement had a shred of common sense the rhetoric was include trans women in everything except for women’s health because obviously that doesn’t apply to them. Unless people start speaking up in a few years they will probably rename the discipline entirely. TIMs are now showing up to OBGYN offices/clinics expecting to have their “neos” treated because “it’s practically the same.” I can assure you they are not and regular women’s health providers do not have training to provide care for those surgical creations. Anyway that’s my rant.

[curtsies-from-princess-ashlyn]

So the Children and Family Emmy nominations were announced..... I had some thoughts on last year's CAFEs that I had kept to myself, but it seems as though the same sorts of patterns are repeating, so I just need to get this off my chest. I hope those who read this can understand where I'm coming from and don't assume I'm trying to discredit or disrespect any particular project/performance. My comments are also only based on the shows I've seen, so I'm addressing the trends I'm noticing based on what I've watched, don't take it as all-encompassing.

Given that these Emmys are targeted at Children's content, I had hopes that would mean the awards and judging would be free from some of the other patterns we tend to see in the industry - the pretention, the awards politics (i.e. studios campaigning for particular projects getting recognized), the pseudo-popularity contest - but so far that doesn't seem to be the case. Last year, I was dismayed to see the majority of Lead Performer nominees to be well-established, seasoned actors who have recognizable names. This isn't to imply that Gina Rodriguez, Tim Allen, or (the winner) Tony Hale didn't give great performances (and maybe Tony Hale was deserving of his win... I can't know bc that show isn't even available anywhere), but there were other performances from lesser-known actors who gave compelling performances, especially impressive for their age and experience as actors. I love Tim Allen and thought he was still great as Scott Calvin in The Santa Clauses, but did he really give an Emmy-worthy performance, or was he just a better-known and respected actor?

Unfortunately, it seems as though this issue persists this year. Christian Slater, Raven Symone, and Justin Long? All three are obviously strong, well-respected actors.... but did they give performances that outshined other leads? The one that really surprises me is Justin Long, as I wouldn't have even considered him the lead of Goosebumps. Look, his performance was what it needed to be on that show (and don't take this as a knock - he's been my guy since Herbie Fully Loaded), but did he give a more compelling performance than someone like.... Sofia Wylie? She's someone who did have Emmy buzz, and she showed so much range in the 4th season of HSMTMTS. Even Kit Connor, who rightfully won the first lead performer CAFE, gave a more interesting performance in 2nd season (which was less stellar than the 1st season) of Heartstopper. This didn't just happen in this category, as I think that may have happened in the Original Song category. "Speak Out" is an excellent song, but it was not the best of the season (and anyone who's seen the season would attest to that). How was "Love You Forever" or "Dreams Don't Die" passed over? I suppose look at the writing team who won this category last year, and that might make sense.

There's also a reason that the Primetime Emmys have separate categories of comedy and drama, and it's because there would otherwise be less attention given to excellent comedy shows (and this pretention exists outside of TV, too). I wouldn't even think that this would be an issue for Children's content, as most of it contains comedy to a certain degree, but there does seem to be a favorability shown towards dramas (more "serious" shows) in the nominees this year, particularly in the Young Teen categories (again, this is the content I've seen, can't comment so much on younger content).

Which brings me to what I really think is happening behind the scenes (and greatly disappoints me): these large studios are picking and choosing content to campaign for, consistent with the other prestigious awards in the industry. I have a hard time reconciling that Goosebumps got so much attention and nominations, while HSMTMTS, which put out its best and most universally praised season, had very little attention. Again, this isn't to knock Goosebumps (I genuinely enjoyed it!), but it's a show that is getting renewed and Disney has more incentive to submit it and campaign for its recognition than a show that ended over a year ago. It's a game, they need to legitimize and create buzz around their shows that they're still creating, and unfortunately that means the judging process, as per usual, isn't so much about merit. It's a shame, because I had hoped the more widespread recognition of Children's programming would lead to a competition freer from pretention and studio influence, but maybe I was naïve to believe that would be the case.

[hanlight]

I know ppl here always say that 911twt is hell but you know, I've been on that site since 2009, before twitter fandoms were even a thing. I've been on the sports, movie/tv and kpop side of twitter. I've seen the most annoying accounts you could imagine and thought about leaving practically every other month since 2016, the year I got into kpop. Everyone knows how that fandom is, but still, even w the deterioration of twitter since musk took over, I was still there even to a lesser degree than before.

Until today.

The 911 twitter fandom has been so annoying the past few days they achieved something even the kpop side didn't do. I'm done with twitter.

The reaction to 8.07 is so baffling to me it feels like I watched a different episode to everyone else. I don't think it's one of the show's great episodes but with the way people are acting, you'd think it was the worst episode a tv show has ever made and 911 as a whole is an awful show, with horrible writing and athena & bobby are the og's version of owen strand (yes, this is actually something I saw on twt).

Up until 8.06, people were mostly pleased with the direction of s8, even calling it season ATE, but one mid-to-bad episode and suddenly everything until now is the same -if not worse-as season 7. It's like the previous 6 episodes didn't happen or like everyone's memories and opinions switched because of this one episode.

The writing they were saying was better in the previous episodes is now worse and more inconsistent. The subtext and foreshadowing is gone, it's just tim minear forgetting to have the characters talk to each other. Remember when bt's wanted athena and bobby to have less screentime and buddies were laughing at them? Well... I got news for you!

I've said this so many times the past few days but I honestly wonder why these people watch the show. They're clearly not having any FUN, it's miserable post after miserable post. Making assumptions and treating them like show canon and getting angry about them. These miserable posts are getting thousands of likes, it's just nothing but negativity everywhere and I'm finally over it.

the 911 fandom on twitter has beaten kpop in terms of toxicity and being all around insufferable... who woulda thought...

I'll be spending my time on bluesky now, it seems better so far.

[wesavegotham]

Damian has similar problem as Talia, to a lesser degree because he's a male character and has more defenders both in the fandom and at DC, but for example, I still don't know what the hell they were thinking with his last arc in Teen Titans.

It's a bit complicated to explain, but originally Teen Titans annual 2 (the issue that had Damian quit as Robin) was sheduled to come out in April 2020. Then Dan Didio got fired, his 5G plans got scrapped and the annual was pushed back because the corona lockdown gave DC some time to adapt their plans to the scrapping of 5G.

They inserted a new arc that involved a murder mystery. The annual got pushed back to August 2020 and got a complete rewrite (other writer, other artist, other plot. Some pages from the original annual were posted by the original artist and they look very different from what we got).

In the original plan the annual would have seen a confrontation between Bruce and Damian about the things he had done up until this point (a secret prison and mental manipulation of the memories of criminals). The pages that were posted also made it look like Bruce investigating the secret prison and uncovering what Damian had done would be a much bigger part of the annual than in ended up being in the changed annual, but aside from that it's hard to tell if it would have been better or worse than the annual we got.

So...I went into that newly inserted arc thinking they must have changed it to be more in favor of Damian since the need to turn him into a supervillain for 5G was now gone and the new arc could have been used to salvage his character after two years of now pointless character assassination.

And in some ways it was. Finally a lot of the things that should have played a part in Damian's character arc (Dick getting shot in the head by KGBeast, Jon vansihing into the future to hang around with the Legions of Superheroes and Alfred's death) from the beginning got adressed. But at the same time they also made it much worse because as the covers of the new arc had already teased Damian was behind the murder of Brother Blood. For all the wrong things Damian had done in the original plan, murder was not among them.

The new arc made him both more sympathetic by finally including things that should have played a role months ago, but it also made things much worse by making Damian kill again, something that as far as we know wouldn't have been in the original annual.

So I still don't know how to feel about what DC was doing by inserting this new arc.

And while I won't deny that DC can be pretty shitty to characters like Bruce, Dick or Tim too, I feel like fans of these characters never have to fear that DC will stoop that low with them.

[dustedmagazine]

Dust Volume 9, Number 5

Ascended Dead

Hard to believe we’re approaching the halfway point of another year, and yet here we are in May, thinking about the mid-year and how we’re going to fit all the excellent stuff so far into a reasonable length list.  There’s always too much music, a wonderful problem, but a problem all the same.  And so we turn again to Dust to burn off some of the excess.  As usual, the reviews run the gamut, from lucid ambient reveries to blistering industrial mayhem, from joyful death metal (surely a contradiction in terms?) to ragged improvised noise. Contributors this time include Ian Mathers, Andrew Forell, Jonathan Shaw, Tim Clarke, Bill Meyer, Christian Carey Jennifer Kelly, Bryon Hayes and Jim Marks.  

Aarktica — Paeans (Projekt)

Paeans by Aarktica

One of the most distinct and striking things about Jon DeRosa’s work as Aarktica has always been the way he blends more ‘pure’ ambient material with songs, both his own and others (everyone from Danzig to Peruvian shamanic songwriter Artur Mena). The new Paeans actually marks the first Aarktica LP without DeRosa’s vocals since his debut, 2000’s No Solace for Sleep. Coming on the heels of last year’s magnificent We Will Find the Light, this record could have just felt like a post-banquet digestif, but instead it’s a reminder of the beautiful, clear atmospheres DeRosa can make with just his guitar (here ably assisted by Henrik Meierkord on cello and viola). Whether it’s going Ashra-stratospheric on “Arcturan Transmission” or drifting towards Stars of the Lid on “Golden Hour at Pyramid House,” the result is a reminder of how vital his ambient work is.

Ian Mathers

 Antimaterial Worlds — Double Saturns Last Purification Exercises (Chemical X)

Double Saturns Last Purification Exercises by ANTIMATERIAL WORLDS

Gaura-jīvana Dāsa has a long history of industrial noise making under various names and degrees of success. His latest incarnation, as Antimaterial Worlds, combines the raucous noise of past projects Skull Catalog and Sewn Leather with his learnings from several years of immersion in Vedic religious studies. The results will do little to win converts to either enterprise. Musically, Double Saturns Last Purification Exercises clings to lesser Nine Inch Nails flailing whilst the lyrics swing from masochistic self-abnegation to that peculiar form of So-Cal spiritual sadism that seeks to purge the penitent while scourging the sinner. The “Kill them all and let God sort them out” forgets that hubris is a powerful enemy for the faithful but if you like your prophets wild-eyed, messianic and slinging guitars instead of lightning bolts and locusts, have at it.

Andrew Forell

 Ascended Dead — Evenfall of the Apocalypse (20 Buck Spin)

Evenfall of the Apocalypse by Ascended Dead

Evenfall of the Apocalypse comprises 42 minutes of perversely joyous Metal ov Death. Not much else to tell you, folks. The four San Diego-based musicians in Ascended Dead continue their project of making songs that cleave to the verities of the Old School, which they have come by honestly: drummer C. Koryn and bass player Kevin Schreutelkamp have put in time in the live bands of Blasphemy, Incantation and Morbid Angel, death metal legends, all. In Ascended Dead, that rhythm section is joined by guitarists Ian Lawrence and Jon Reider, and the requisite whirling chaos commences. It’s a lot of fun. Every song is overstuffed with riffs and ideas, all constantly on the verge of collapsing into noisome, rotten goo. Koryn’s drumming keeps them coherent (mostly, anyways) and coaxes them into increasingly wacky shapes, building toward the next semi-blackened guitar break or bout of psychotic shredding. There’s nothing innovative or risk-taking here, but it's nimbly composed, confidently executed and always on the move. The shorter tunes (“Nexus of the Black Flame,” “Bestial Vengeance”) are especially effective. They arrive, they mess up your mind, they’re gone. Come back and do it again, please.

Jonathan Shaw  

 Chained to the Bottom of the Ocean — Obsession Destruction (Redscroll Records)

Obsession Destruction by Chained to the Bottom of the Ocean

There’s not a tremendous amount of range in sludge metal, so it makes sense that Massachusetts band Chained to the Bottom of the Ocean seems to have derived its name by altering the title of a song (“Fucking Chained to the Bottom of the Ocean”) from Thou, perhaps the best sludge band to make misery-inducing music since Eyehategod. But’s there’s a line to be drawn between recognition of one’s artistic idols and pastiche, and Chained to the Bottom of the Ocean steps right along it — or crawls, or trudges, as the case may be. Songs like “Summer Comes to Multiply” and “Every Day a Weeping Curse” sound a whole lot like…Thou. This reviewer responds, at a profound gut level, to those tones and rhythmic structures, so he can dig a tune like “Ten Thousand Years of Unending Failure.” Ironically, it succeeds. It’s crushing and thrilling and huge, and it closes with an entertainingly daft lyric couplet: “When obsession takes over I’ll be fine / When destruction takes over I’ll decide.” Is that nihilism? A sort of fist-clenched catharsis? The aggro intensities of the music can accommodate both, creating a pretty good set of emotive qualities for a sludge song. Why decide, dudes? 

Jonathan Shaw 

 Clark — Sus Dog (Throttle)

Sus Dog by Clark

Clark’s most recent releases have been dominated by soundtracks and neo-classical work (2021’s Playground In A Lake and 2019’s Kiri Variations are especially beautiful). On his new album, Sus Dog, he returns to an electronically dominated palette, introduces his own voice as a key element, and even gets Thom Yorke on board as executive producer. Yorke’s involvement is obviously a drawcard for anyone interested in the Radiohead frontman’s oeuvre, with the overall sound of Sus Dog largely in the vein of Yorke’s last solo album, Anima. Clark’s voice is similar to Caribou’s Dan Snaith in its timbre and the way it sits in the mix, while squiggly synthesizer lines and pounding drum breaks carry the music forward with aplomb. However, it’s Sus Dog’s down-tempo moments that really shine, such as the title track, featuring guest vocals from Anika; “Medicine,” featuring Yorke on bass and vocals; and the piano-driven closer, “Ladder,” which repeats the striking vocal refrain, “Living on a ladder, stuck between two floors.”  

Tim Clarke

 The Electric Nature — Old World Die Must (Feeding Tube / NULL|ZØNE)

Old World Die Must by The Electric Nature

The Electric Nature is a free noise trio which is based in Athens, GA. Improvisation is baked into their methodology, but that doesn’t mean that they serve up raw jams. This album, which is a rare vinyl outing in their mostly cassette/digital discography, contains just two, side-long tracks, but includes sounds made between 2015 and 2022. Given the density of their sound, one suspects that Michael Potter, Michael Piece and Thom Strickland, who are jointly credited with guitars, synths, drums and recordings, add tapes of earlier performances to the one at hand. But don’t get the idea that these guys are snakes swallowing their collective tail; they’re decidedly open to outside input. “Enter Chapel Perilous” opens with the croaks of some swamp denizens, and then turns the spotlight over to Sunwatchers saxophonist Jeff Tobias, whose long, furry tones clear the path for the eventual battering assault. The trio is likewise augmented on the flip side’s titular performance by John Kiran Fernandes, whose clarinet adds a Morricone-esque dimension to the late-night squall. Times are tough nowadays — sometimes it takes a village to whip up some solar wind. 

Bill Meyer

Feather Beds — Softer Measures (Strange Brew)

Softer Measures by Feather Beds

Feather Beds is the experimental pop project of Irish musician Michael Orange, and on his new album, Softer Measures, he pushes things to perverse extremes. The album title seems to allude to the music’s raw materials being endlessly pliable, able to be squashed and stretched into new forms. There are identifiably pop-leaning tunes here, but often buried beneath effects and refracted through a funhouse mirror. Predictably it’s the two singles, “Really Disney” and “Sport of Boxing,” that offer the most immediate gratification, but even then, things get weird, a la early Animal Collective or Ronald Jones-era Flaming Lips. “Sport of Boxing,” for example, is a jangly lo-fi pop tune that hurtles along at an addictive clip, only to be swallowed up by chittering digital loops. Indeed, there’s something decidedly nightmarish about the way the songs refuse to follow the path you might imagine. Rhythms stutter and stumble, guitar tones warp in and out of tune, voices circle eerily and overlap one another. All the chaos renders moments of calm, such as the end of “We Safari,” uncannily beautiful.

Tim Clarke

 The High Strung — Address Unknown (Paper Thin)

The High Strung makes a kind of trebly, warbly, high energy garage pop pioneered by the Seeds and the Flaming Groovies and rediscovered during the aughts “rock is back” era by the Cynics, the Gripweeds and the Insomniacs. It’s not quite bubblegum, but it’s got a fair lacing of sweetness, and it’s hard to do well without slipping into saccharine cliché. Address Unknown is the band’s 11th album, following several decades together, through multiple line-ups and one major breakthrough: a song in opening credits of the Showtime series Shameless. It is everything you’d expect from a band of lifers—tight and relaxed at the same time, sure of itself but not particularly concerned about reception, and utterly charming. I like “Different Animal” the best, with its pounding beat and fluttering tunefulness, its clever rhymes and loopy harmonies. It’s the single and the video, and you can see why they focused on it, but there’s plenty of other good stuff as well. “Overcoat and Skis” with its Beatles-esque tootling keyboard and its wistful upward lilting melody, seems loose and casual until you recognize the sharpness of the ski-themed writing. (“It’s all downhill from here.”) “Run It Back” rocks harder, in a one-two punching way, but never abandons its tipsy whimsy, like XTC but rougher. Here’s a band neither torqued too tight nor slouched too low, but just a little high strung.

Jennifer Kelly

 Joseph Jarman-Don Moye feat. Craig Harris & Rafael Garrett — Earth Passage-Density (Eargong) 

By the early 1980s, when this album was recorded, the Art Ensemble Of Chicago spent a lot of their time playing music in other settings. On Earth Passage-Density, percussionist Don Moye and woodwinds multi-threat Joseph Jarman joined forces with Craig Harris, a trombone and digeridoo player who was active on several New York scenes, and Rafael Garrett, a bass and winds player who one worked with John Coltrane on the mind-melter, Om. Originally released by Black Saint and recently re-pressed by Eargong, this session shows the same breadth of reach as the AEC without shortchanging the creativity of Garrett and Harris. Patient development balances jump-cut transitional strategies and Brownian rhythmic urgency as they work their way through ceremonial dirges, angular bop, and gleefully chaotic funk. If you have any appreciation for the Art Ensemble’s pre-ECM recordings and haven’t heard this record yet, well, why are you being so hard on yourself?

Bill Meyer  

Rob Mazurek and Exploding Star Orchestra – Lightning Dreamers (Rogue Art)

Rob Mazurek enlists a formidable lineup for Lightning Dreamers, Exploding Star Orchestra’s latest recording, including instrumentalists Jeff Parker, Nicole Mitchell, Craig Taborn, Gerald Cleaver, and Angelica Sanchez. Damon Locks provides futurist lyrics and intoned vocals, taking the lead on “Future Shaman.” Mazurek’s cornet solo on the spacy “Dream Sleeper” is a standout, mellifluous and melodically inventive. The supple groove and doubled melodies on “Shape Shifter” demonstrate the groups allied affinities to fusion and modern jazz. Add in hat tips to the Arkestra, as on the paired pieces “Black River” and “White River,” and a fulsome brew is concocted.

Christian Carey

 Miranda and the Beat — S-T (Ernest Jennings)

Miranda And The Beat by Miranda and The Beat

“Sweat!” shouts Miranda Zipse in the opening salvo to this very strong album, as a soul-powered guitar snakes through surges of 1960s organs. She sounds like a long-lost Bond opening credit singer, from the Connery era no less, but she formed her band only a few years ago with her childhood friend Kim Sollecito, after dropping out of high school at 15. Now, she wields an astonishing belt, a swaggering style and a crack band of retro-maximalists. She’s caught the attention of another 1960s soul vamper, King Khan, who enthused, “I never thought I would see someone be able to play guitar with the ferocity of Link Wray, and sing like Lydia Lunch had a nuclear meltdown and morphed into Etta James and Yma Sumac.” Too much? Maybe, but “I’m Not Your Baby” swells and roars, surf guitar cascading through a Spector-esque wall of sound. “Concrete” cranks the tension with stuttering high-hat and drum—and blasts out of the blocks with a battering bass line. “Listen to the sound of the kids that are hanging out on the street,” she spits against the rough beat, and who knew that the kids would sound like this?

Jennifer Kelly

 Olololop, Arakawa Atsushi And Zea — Soyokaze (Makkum) 

Soyokaze by Olololop, Arakawa Atsushi and Zea

The Japanese trio Olololop plays electronic and acoustic percussion, and their compatriot Arakawa Atsushi manages electronics; one of them also plays a credible saxophone. They encountered Zea, the nom-du-rock of singer-guitarist Arnold de Boer (also of the Ex), at a Dutch music festival. Impelled by mutual appreciation, they flipped on some microphones and improvised a session which doesn’t fit easily into anyone’s pigeonhole, and is better off for it. Beats sputter, reeds and synth sputter, and at one point a poem drifts through the proceedings like a half-remembered dream. This music is a thing unto itself, beholden to no genre, but infused with the delight of jumping right in and finding out that you can swim. 

Bill Meyer

 Joakim Rainer Trio — Light Sentence (Sonic Transmissions) 

Light.Sentence by Joakim Rainer Trio

It must be daunting for any young musician to pick a point of entry into jazz these days. Joakim Rainer Petersen, the leader of this Norwegian piano trio, has chosen wisely. While he may not be as distinctive a composer as Kris Davis or Andrew Hill, his interest in their music helps to steer his own towards expressions of formal logic that are open to improvisational reassessment at any moment. He and bassist Alexander Risis sound like they’re completing each other’s ideas, but not by adding one guy’s statements to the other’s; no, their ideas cohere like two people saying parts of the same sentence. Drummer Rino Sivathas keeps things moving with a nicely splashy attack that keeps the moments of reflection from bogging down. Word has it that this combo tours, at least in Europe; keep your eyes and ears peeled. 

Bill Meyer

 Roser Monforte Trio — Landscape Songs (Self-Release)

LANDSCAPE SONGS, RM TRIO by RM TRIO

This slightly unusual trio lineup delivers jazz with a prog twist. Monforte has a big sound but gives drummer Jordi Pallarés and guitarist Pau Mainé plenty of space to realize her highly polished but uncluttered compositions.

The first two tracks, “Once upon a Time” and “Horses,” blend together into a suite that shows the group at its best. It begins with over a minute of unaccompanied guitar, which, as throughout the album, Mainé plays clean and with restraint. Pallarés is boisterous once he gets going, producing a wide range of sounds out of what looks like a fairly standard jazz kit, though well appointed with cymbals, in online videos. The leader eases into the tune around the minute-and-a-half mark with a catchy descending lick, and they’re off. Pallarés takes a solo at the transition between the tunes that is followed by the introduction of a new, serpentine theme and a neat shift in tempo, and the suite draws to a close with a funky vamp and a revisitation of the serpentine theme.

The rest of the tunes are nearly as memorable and fairly concise, most running three to five minutes. There’s plenty of variation, with “Cosmic Dancer” and “Orixa” straying into exotica and fusion territory, the lovely ballads “Absence” and “Baraka” slowing things down, and the rousing “anTANAnarivo” and “Atzutac” sure to set toes tapping.

Jim Marks

 Tomten — Artichoke (Plume)

Artichoke by Tomten

Tomten’s songs billow and swell in that frictionless, effortless way that often indicates great care and craft. The Seattle-based band makes heavy use of keyboards—organs and synthesizers for instance—for lulling sustained tones that envelop and soften rock song architectures. The surf rock swagger of “Lizard in the Grass” comes wrapped in a dream pop shimmer. “Grapefruit Sea” the opener and early single, has the rolling gait and spiraling psychedelic expansiveness of a Grand Archive cut (it reminds me of “Sleepdriving,” always a good thing). The lyrics are better than they need to be, with precise and evocative natural imagery scattered across the disc, poppies and wild heather and mallow weeds. The whole thing feels like a pleasant dream, radiant but fuzzy at the edges.

Jennifer Kelly  

 Volcano the Bear — Amateur Shakes (Volucan)

Amateur Shakes by Volcano The Bear

A new Volcano the Bear album is cause for celebration among fans of strange sounds. Unfortunately, even though it arrived this year, Amateur Shakes doesn’t comprise recent music. The Leicester-based Dadaists laid these songs to tape at the tail end of the 2000s, prior to the release their final official album, Golden Rhythm / Ink Music in 2012. Timeline aside, this is a notable release for the band. Recorded with Andreas Schmid at Faust Studios and with Hans-Joachim Irmler producing, this is some of their best-sounding and most surreal music. Like in a Burroughs novel, thematic elements explored on past records reappear in these songs’ lyrics, which are sung, croaked and howled. The group have dialed back their signature avant-jazz and polka leanings, leaving room for their less-frequented outré rock tendencies to shine through. The lengthier, multi-part songs “Amateurs Blind” and “Classic Clarence Fusion” somehow come across as the most accessible, with the other tracks absorbing the experimentalist influences of the studio. There’s an uncanny symbiosis going on here, but can it really be a coincidence that a proximity to Faust has intensified the band’s already kooky demeanor? This writer thinks not. 

[destinyc1020]

see I think that anon saying that Timdayas ruined Dune press is just as weird as Timdayas themselves. I can understand not being the biggest fan of Timmy. But I don’t understand why people who support Tom and Z can’t also enjoy Timmy and Z’s friendship. This very weird thing happens where they won’t even acknowledge him and I think that’s also strange. For example, on Z’s bday A LOT of Tomdaya blogs didnt repost Timmy’s bday post for Z but they posted everyone else’s. Idk as a tomdaya and someone who likes Timmy idk what people just can’t enjoy it all. That anon saying dune press tour was ruined is so strange. I loved their press tour. I couldn’t wait to see what they wore, what nuggets or wisdom they would drop. Timmy and Z were absolute delights on the press tour. I really think if people shipping the two clouds you so much that you can’t enjoy the content they’re providing then you need to reflect a little bit. Like we all know it’s Tom and Z why let Timdayas ruin the fun that Timmy and Z provide??

I can't speak for all Tomdaya fans, but I personally don't mind Tim and Zendaya's friendship? 🤷

I think SOME Tomdaya fans might have enjoyed Tim and Z's friendship more if Timdaya shippers weren't so weird and lame coming into Tomdaya blogs being all pressed and harassing us and acting like weirdos trying to see some type of "romance" btwn the two of them where there is absolutely NONE. Not only is it disrespectful to Zendaya (AND Tom btw), but it's actually kind of misogynistic to assume that a woman is just going to fall for whatever co-star she works opposite with onscreen. 🥴

So yea, I can understand why SOME Tomdaya fans don't care for Timdaya. I don't think it's anything personal against Timmy, I just think the Timdaya shippers ruined an innocent friendship. It's one thing to ship two SINGLE people together, especially when there's actual evidence of something going on. But when you're shipping two people together who are obvious FRIENDS, and one is actually in a serious relationship with someone else, that just looks really desperate and it gets annoying after a while.

I didn't mind the fashion looks or even the interviews during the Dune press, but when you are running a blog and having to duck and dodge nonsense antis and Timdaya shippers posting foolish posts about Timdaya during a press tour, that gets old real QUICK. You can't even reason with people like them. If they act like each other has the plague, Timdaya shippers are like: "Seee.....there's something going on!" If they act real close and cozy, then Timdaya shippers are like: "SEEE! There's definitely something going on!" It's like, no matter WHAT Tim or Z do, the silly shippers will say something is going on even though they are just friends. Talk about crazy behavior. IT's the SAME thing that happened with Z and Hunter, and to a lesser degree, Z and JDW. It's like, c'mon now folks.... Give it a rest. We know you all LOVE to ship Z with ABT (Anyone But Tom), but c'mon..... 🙄

Then there are the ABZ (Anyone But Zendaya) shippers as well...Don't even get me started on them.... 🙄

Like, don't y'all get TIRED??

[roseworth]

Hello, im new to dc and i was reading some Robin backstory but there's something i want to ask if you don't mind. I don't understand why Jason and Damian are hated as Robin? From what i read people can't accept Jason as Robin due to him being different than Dick but what's wrong with Damian? I see Tim being accepted despite fans anger over Jason before and he's the second most popular Robin next to Dick. I thought they'll do the same with Damian but it seems not? I understand that it's probably due to racism but is there other reason for that?

ok so. theres honestly not a simple answer to this but here we go

the thing about comics is that in the 90s there was a whole push for people wanting comics to be a little more mature and not just for kids so that adults could still read and enjoy them. and so all these kids/teenagers in the 90s were able to continue reading their favs as they grew up which is nice BUT it meant that they got very attached to tim as robin since he was robin for like. their whole childhood

so tim had a solo with 100+ issues and people loved it. and he was in things like young justice and teen titans that people also liked. and ofc he showed up in a lot of the iconic batman stories in the 90s. so then once damian comes along and is robin instead people in 2006 get upset because tim was their robin for years and they loved tim and now from their perspective tim is "forced" out of a robin role to make way for damian, leading them to hate damian (which is kind of the same thing that happened to jason, since dick had been the only robin so people loved dick for 50+ years then jason comes along and people are mad that hes not dick)

and damian was written like a moody 10 year old, and people hate when kids show emotions, so it led to people not liking damian since he was more emotional than tim and isnt a cut and clean robin

anyways damian also had some of the issues that people had to a lesser degree with jason, because damian way murderous when he first appeared. and jason (thanks to starlin) was okay with people dying. so basically they were a lil too okay with murder, again making them not a cut and clean robin and led to people not liking them

and THEN of course. we get into the racism. everyone always talks about how tim is the "relatable robin" because hes an upper-middle class white man which. um. sure. idc i wont get into that. but damian despite being drawn very white was not. not to mention the mischaracterization of talia leading to people being like "ooo damian is evil and terrible!" and people wanting their straight (lol) white boy robin back.

but thats a lot of what happened in the mid 2000s to make people not like him SO why dont people like him today!! (spoiler: the reasons are terrible)

basically a lot of people that havent actually read the comics today will love tim a lot and see that damian was mean to tim (tried to kill him. lol!) and say "grrr damian tried to hurt my sweet little tim 😡" without actually knowing or caring about damian.

then theres also the shit that still happens in the comics with damian in canon constantly being pit against batman and still wanting to kill ? like in teen titans 2016 he ran a private prison or something. idk i havent even read it because the idea sounds so stupid and i cant stand it. then in robin 2021 he was still willing to kill and all and was like "omg i dont have to hold back anymore 😍" because dc uses the same character arcs over and over and over and will never let damian get past wanting to kill 15 years ago

and of course. still the racism of people wanting damian to be a stereotype then getting mad at the stereotype that THEY shoved him into. and the same stuff from before

also a writer made damian say some homophobic stuff in like 2009 so to this day people are still like "wow.... hes homophobic.... hes going to kill jon for being bi...." despite damian not even being a little homophobic recently (except for what devin grayson did but shes going to hell for that anyways)

in summary. people all have their little beefs with damian for various reasons. its all petty shit and some racist shit and him not being the Golden Robin so people dont like him

[acceptsonlynttnightwing]

Edited

Yes and no Jason has emotions but its more fanon that rage affects his fighting. There is nothing that suggests Dick is faster or has more natural talent. Dick has more acrobatic talent Jason has the ability to learn skills at a high velocity. Still acrobatics doesn’t automatically equal fighting, a gymnast isn’t guaranteed to be able to beat up a track and field athlete. Same with quick learning, a person who is quickly able to pick up a fighting technique can still be beat by another fighter for a variety of reasons.

Jason also has displayed higher body reading skills than Dick in terms of reading body language during a fight. Jason was trained by Shiva and can read bodies like Cass but to a lesser degree. Jason can also apparently see into the future and past. Jason was a able to out strategize Dick and Bruce several times as a villain. Neither of whom was able to capture him (he let himself be taken in by the police) or figure out his plans before he executed them. Jason has been able to injure meta level threats without fancy equipment as well like the Talons.

Jason has self control and is able to use lethal weapons without killing people if he so chooses. He does things he believes are right  not because he can’t control himself. Any time Jason lost control of himself like BOTC the story framed it as him suffering a mental breakdown. Same as when Dick flies off the handle he is usually brainwashed or mentally compromised. 

The two characters have unique skills and have learned from friends and allies. Who is the better fighter is up to the author and what information they are pulling from and what they believe about each character’s skill levels. Even if one is better than the other it is always possible that the weaker one will still win for whatever reason. Nothing is set and stone and the characters are still growing. 

—

I’ve received three different submissions about this, so I’ve added edits to address their points.

EDIT: Sorry, I went on about Brothers in blood - I hated everyone in it and got caught up in that. But fair enough, in the current continuity, it didn’t happen so I’ll stop referencing it. 

Dude, I’m serious, send it as an ask or I’m not replying.

1. Jason learns skills at a high velocity is a pretty irrelevant thing to say since every character has the usual montage. So do Dick and Tim and Bruce and Conner and so on. Jason’s never been said or shown to be an usually quick learner. Especially as he never really tackled difficult cases as Robin (nothing solo like Dick or Tim did at least).

[Edit: Bruce says Jason took to the training well in Death in the family - he told Dick that he [Dick] could teach him [Bruce] some things and called Dick a prodigy. Not the same thing. 

You said there weren’t any signs Dick was more naturally talented (which I disproved) and said Jason could ‘learn skills at a high velocity’.  I’m merely pointing out that all the robins can, so that doesn’t really strengthen Jason’s case. 

And UTRH didn’t say Dick and Jason ‘were the same in terms of skill, endurance, and wills to succeed’. It just said the biggest difference Bruce and Alfred noticed between Jason and Dick wasn’t skill, endurance or will, but that Jason had a mean streak - as in Jason had a giant mean streak. Sure, you could interpret it as Jason and Dick being equally skilled if you want, but given the context, it just sounded like Alfred was worried about some of Jason’s ideas].

2. I mean five different people have pointed out what they called Dick’s natural athleticism and fighting skills (Bruce, Tim, Roy, Richard Dragon and Lady Shiva) in all kinds of different reboots that I can recall off the top of my head while no one I know has said the same about Jason.

And even more people (Bruce, Wally, Selena, Barbara, Tim, Victor and Jace Fox) have specifically pointed out the Dick is faster than Bruce or that he is unusually fast for a human period. And given Dick’s fighting style has always been more reliant on dodging and flipping around, it makes sense for speed to be a speciality of his versus Jason (who’s shown to tank more blows and hit back instead of dodging).

So yes, I think there’s a lot of evidence to suggest Dick is faster and more naturally athletic / talented at fighting than Jason - remember Dick’s parents were world class athletes too AND he was trained from basically when he could walk and so has both nature and nurture on his side. 

3. I don’t think Jason’s emotions are more fanon than canon? Like, Jason was super unstable during UtRH, BftC and in Grant Morrison’s Batman and Robin. He was quite clearly making emotional decisions - trying to kill Tim and Damian and Dick, trying to unmask Dick and Damian AND not taking Dick’s hand (and the help he offered) and choosing to fall into the river instead. 

[EDIT:  Jason didn’t choose to go to jail quietly, not sure if we read the same comic? First, in BftC he chose to fall off a bridge into a river instead of taking Dick’s hand (a fight he lost, despite, as I mentioned, having every advantage) then in Batman and Robin: instance 1- Dick had Jason in a lock and slammed his head to the floor when Scarlet grabbed Damian and forced Dick to release Jason in exchange. Jason definitely lost that encounter; instance 2- Scarlet used Damian failing to rescue from Pig against Damian and knocked him out. Jason then shot Dick when he turned around to go after Damian; instance 3 - Dick and Damian saved Jason and Scarlet from Flamenco (who was sent by a cartel Jason pissed off) and Jason was taken into jail half beaten to death - he had no choice there. instance 4 - Jason gets transferred to regular prison and is broken out of jail by random mercenaries who want him to do something (I forgot what). Scarlet gets kidnapped and Dick and Damian have to help him find her. In the end Jason and Scarlet escape, with Jason saying he planted bombs through Gotham tha Dick and Damian must deactivate instead of chasing them. Dick lets them get away but makes no move to go after the supposed bombs (he knew Jason was bluffing), merely saying he’ll hopefully get better and return to the family (Jason’s shown really caring about Scarlet in this issue, suggesting he’s ready to reform).

So, yeah, Dick quite conclusively beat Jason the three times they met here. Nowhere here does Jason ‘outsmart Dick but go to jail quietly’. And he definitely doesn’t ‘get thrashed by Jason’. Lol, scarlet had more to do with beating Dick than Jason did.  ]

[Edit: Not only is Jason ridiculously emotiona in UTRH and BftC, he’s also stupidly so in Morrison - he wanted revenge against drug dealers so badly he killed a bunch of them, including Dick’s informant on a HUGE drug cartel spanning the Americas, screwing up Dick’s case AND getting Flamenco sent after him. And he was so busy being dramatic about his approach to crime solving he alienated the police AND was so busy taunting Dick, Flamenco nearly killed him and Scarlet (and would have if Dick and Damian hadn’t saved him). 

Like, man, actually read what happens in the comics. I remember it being really dark and hard to make out, but at least try before spouting outright lies online]

But you could argue that all of these are other characters’ issues. But even in his own books, both as Robin and in the Outlaws Jason unnecessarily goes solo multiple times and gets hurt because he’s too focused on revenge or payback or whatever and doesn’t properly pay attention to his surroundings. It’s a recurring theme.

4. I didn’t say it was the acrobatics alone that made Dick a better fighter - it’s a combination of that, his natural athleticism (that made mastering the physical skills Bruce taught him easy) AND how his acrobatic background influenced Dick’s style - he uses flips and spins to put a lot more force into his blows that a normal person could build up. Plus, he’s shown thinking ahead DURING fights, which Jason is rarely SHOWN doing (not saying he doesn’t, but there’s very little proof that he does).

Also, in most of their fights, Dick’s always holding back while, as you said, Jason’s kinda mad and seems to be genuinely trying to kill Dick. AND Dick STILL wins. 

EDIT: The ‘Jason was always holding back’ just seems to be him trying to save face, sry. 

Also, Dick’s shown holding up a 1000 pound statue, withstanding an orca bite a one handedly lifting a super obese woman, and hitting hard enough with his sticks + a flip that even superman can feel it so he’s pretty strong too. In addition to that, he’s faster and more agile too.

5. ‘Jason also has displayed higher body reading skills than Dick in terms of reading body language during a fight’ is completely untrue. Do you have any proof? 

If you’re referring to that one fight with Cass during the Mother arc in Grayson, that’s still not an accurate statement.

Jason just says he’s an assassin too (was trained by Lady Shiva a bit) and he knows she’s reading him, so all he has to do is surprise himself and that’ll surprise her. 

Which, IMO is super weird because no one else (Cass, Shiva, Dinah, etc) has ever been shown to do that in ANY continuity, but that’s a personal issue of mine. By that theory, Lady Shiva ought to lose to the Joker and Two Face. Cass reads body language - twitches of muscles and whatnot, so even if Jason was ‘surprising himself’ she should still be able to read what he’s going to do. Which is why its my personal hc that Cass wasn’t actually fighting him (which is even stated in the comic), but recognised that he was an assassin and giving him power would make him feel safer/ more comfortable. 

But back to the point, in the comic, Jason’s not reading her body language, he just recognised her fighting style and that it depends on her reading his moves. Plus, as you know, Cass wasn’t fighting back or trying to hurt Jason. 

[5 & Edit: Jason says he can read Cass reading him - as in he can read her fighting style and know she’s reading him. He can’t read her well enough to know (like Dick did) that she didn’t mean any harm and was holding back.

BECAUSE, as I pointed out, Jason’s never been shown to read body language.

Dick just says that Cass can’t predict the future and that he’ll eventually be able to surprise her. He doesn’t mention it as ‘a tactic for fighting Cass’ or anything of that sort.

Fair point about the joker, though, I forgot that time he knocked her out. But if you look closely, that worked because he managed to get a surprise shot in and knock her out - which Jason didn't. And even in that, once Cass comes back to it, she knocks the Joker out. I don’t think Jason’d have managed to kill her un-knocked out since she’s shown very easily breaking out of people’s holds and is faster than Jason and Dick]

It’s actually Dick, in his fight with Cass (where he gets his ass handed to him though lol) who reads her body language and says he can tell that she’s holding back her moves and making them non lethal. Plus, I recently fully read RHATO in case I could finally understand what some people seem to love about it, and Jason’s never mentioned to have body language reading skills (besides stuff like noticing someone’s nervous and very normal stuff that Tim and bruce notice all the time). 

Dick OTH is shown in his first meeting with bruce (in the continuity in which the Cass and Jason fight takes place) reading Bruce’s body language and concluding he was genuine at their first meeting. He then figures out that Batman and Bruce Wayne are the same person immediately upon meeting Batman (saying they have the same body language - something no one else except Cass ever mentions). Even before Bruce and Dick meet, Dick’s shown playing tag with other circus kids and that he always wins because he can predict what they’re going to do and which direction they’re going to run from their body language - even without any training!

So, conclussion, Dick is the best at reading body language in the Batam besides Cass.

6. ‘Jason was trained by Shiva and can read bodies like Cass but to a lesser degree. Jason can also apparently see into the future and past.’

I just explained why the former isn’t true. Jason trained under Shiva for like a month and learnt a couple of tricks. That’s it. He wasn’t ‘trained by Shiva’ anymore than Tim was. He doesn’t seem to have learnt to read bodies - or if he did, he’s never shown using it. Ever. Even when it could have REALLY helped save him. Which is why I don’t think he can read much more body language beyond what the other Bats (besides Cass and Dick) can.

EDIT - Jason managed to use one of Lady Shiva’s own tricks on her because she underestimate him. He NEVER outmatched her in skill.

Also, the students of hers he beat where basically like the LOA assassins - they’ve been training for years, but all the bats can take them out super easily. None of the students were very good /noteworthy.

As for his future/past thing, when was that? I don’t think I’ve ever seen him use that power in any of the RH issues I read? 

[Edit: Oh wow. You’re talking about the All-Caste stuff, right? How they can ‘see the past, present and future.’ Seriously. I thought I was actually missing something.

Jason’s never managed to see into the future or do anything useful with his power. It’s like how Kori undergoes the ritual and meets a god and whatnot, but it’s just completely irrelevant and useless to the plot. Or when Dick got bitten by vampires in the Grayson Annual (in main continuity sigh). Sometimes weird shit just happens and doesn’t count. I really don’t think 'seeing into the future’ counts as one of Jason’s abilities - not until he’s shown actually using it.]

7. Okay, you’re massively misrepresenting UtRH?? For one, Bruce and Dick didn’t know who it was because they thought the only person with said skills was dead. Because he had died. Not exactly a feat you can replicate. Even so, Bruce finally figured it out. Plus, Dick was there only for the first and surprise meeting - he returned to Bludhaven pretty soon - so Jason didn’t out-stratigise Dick, he out-strategised Bruce.

What Jason did do with Dick was lose a battle he picked, on the battlefield he picked and rigged AFTER spraying Dick with fear gas at the start. Then there’s also the multiple times Dick foiled his plans in Batman and Robin. 

[EDIT: ‘You could even argue Jason held his own against all the Batboys for several days in BftC before losing 1 fight.’

Wow, just wow. 

By ‘held his own’, you mean he managed not to get captured when the bats were going after major villains (all of whom got busted out of Arkham by the new Black Mask) and gangs that were attacking Gotham post Bruce’s death? that’s super impressive! He managed not to get captured when basically no one particularly cared about catching him (except maybe Tim)! 

Once he attacked Dick, Dick kept him talking and figured out his identity during their first meeting. Again, he shot Damian to distract Dick and get away. Right after, Tim found Jason’s hideout, Jason nearly killed him too (Jason thought he did kill Tim, but the Knight and Squire rescued Tim, but I’m sure Jason didn’t mean to shoot him in chest and leave him a cave rigged to blow, right?). 

Then Dick came after Jason and beat him (despite being, as previously mentioned, sprayed with fear gas and on Jason’s turf).

Or the time Ric-without-morals (while brainwashed and noted to be slower than Dick was) trashed the shit out of Jason, nearly killing him.

8. Jason has self control and is able to use lethal weapons without killing people if he so chooses.

I apologise if I wasn’t clear enough, I was joking about the having self control thing. What I meant is that Jason doesn’t have very good self control.

He constantly changes plans and gives into his emotions (very human thing to do, but not a great example of self control).

Also, being able to use guns without killing isn’t a great accomplishment?? It literally just means using rubber bullets and/or aiming away from vital body parts.  

Edit: Dude, I'm a member of the National Rifle association. I know my guns. All I meant was that having great aim’s not unusual for a vigilante. They’re all great with batarangs and Dick’s shown to be great with a gun too. Having good aim isn’t just a Jason thing. 

He does things he believes are right not because he can’t control himself.

So you’re telling me that he thought killing petty criminals (and cops) and hanging their bodies up in broad daylight was the right thing to do? Or that stealing his brother’s - a man who’d been nothing but kind and helpful to him - identity just to screw with him and make him out to be a murderer was the right thing to do?

Or, again, that killing petty criminals was right?? The kinds of people who stole or dealt drugs? Like, man, do you realise how many people would have to die if we did that? 

What gave Jason the right to decide that? How could he complain about Bruce’s high handedness and conviction he was always right and then go around deciding he himself had the right to kill people?

I’m not arguing about killing the Joker or Black Mask, but what about smaller crooks? It wasn’t even like he killed them on accident!

So either he couldn’t control himself or he’s kinda a shit person. Your choice. I prefer him not being able to control himself *shrug*

Any time Jason lost control of himself like BOTC the story framed it as him suffering a mental breakdown. 

Not really though? Sure, for BotC, but he loses control over himself quite a bit in his own stories too (with Essence, with Superman, choosing to lose his memories, every time he found out anything about Willis, with Lex Luthor, in Hush, the list goes on and on). 

And according to the N52, which is what you sourced most of Jason’s skills from, he was reckless even as robin and always had a bad temper.

Same as when Dick flies off the handle he is usually brainwashed or mentally compromised. 

Except that Dick rarely flies off the handle without LEGIT brainwashing or magic mental stuff even when horrible things happen. When Dick found out Batman had replaced him (in the mantle HE created), he swallowed his feelings and offered Jason his number and help. When his apartment was burned down (killing the people he lived with), he turned the criminals in to the police. When Haly’s burned down and a bunch of people died, AGAIN, he didn’t go crazy and kill people. When Donna died, he sulked in his apartment instead of going out and killing people.

So, yeah, different levels of self control. 

Which is exactly what I meant when I said Dick had more self control. He’s calmer, more collected and overall, is a more focused fighter. 

[Edit: I know Dick has depressive tendencies, but he usually pulls himself together AND, like I said, doesn’t hurt other innocent people]

Plus, he has way more experience given he started acrobatics at like ¾ and training with Bats at 8/9, unlike Jason, who’s earliest origin has him enter at 12/13. That’s experience Jason really doesn’t have much of an opportunity to beat.

[EDIT: I know all the bats have experience fighting lots of metas and gods, but I’m just pointing out that Dick and Bruce have the most by far. NOT saying Jason doesn’t have ANY, just that he has far less since he became robin at 12/13 and died at 14/15 and spent maybe two years in the Outlaws. Which adds up to around 6 years of experience including his training + however long since he’s been part of the bats again. There’s a difference between occasionally fighting metas and growing up fighting them - which Jason didn’t do since he wasn’t a part of the titans (besides 3 missions) and no young justice existed - which puts Dick, Tim and eventually Damian on a different level. Jason was Robin for like a 18 months after the usually six month training bootcamp. That’s nothing compared to the length of Dick’s.

However, given that Tim’s shown spending less time fighting and has admitted that he’s not as good as Dick and Jason physically, I’m skipping him. Also, he’s fought besides like four titans members and has never once been shown training or sparring with any of them (unlike Dick). Also, post crisis, ESPECIALLY in RHATO, Jason never learnt from Dick - in RHATO when Dick tried teaching Jason about stakeouts and being patient, he said he didn’t need advice from the previous Robin and yelled about Bruce choosing Jason and called Dick an arsehole. There’s the new Tom Taylor annual that retcons Dick and Jason spending time together occasionally, but RHATO says the exact opposite + everything else says Dick didn’t talk to Bruce from almost 18 months after he fired him, so he only interacted with Jason a couple of times before he died, so not sure how that fits in, plus tom Taylor writes way too many other people into the Nightwing solo.]

Plus, while people talk about Jason doing the whole training with experts around the world for a year / 18 months

[EDIT: it seriously cannot be longer than that, check the timeline. Originally: Jason’s resurrected around a year after dying, spends a year with the all caste, a month or so with Shiva and a few months with the League. after that we goes to Hong Kong for 6 months to make money and then back to Gotham. Tim’s been Robin for around 2, 2 and a half years at this point. In Lost days, he trained with 8 - 10 different teachers for a month each. Before which (UTRH) he was dead for around a year, catatonic for another another one lived on the streets of Gotham for a year before Talia found him (or some LOA guy) found him and then catatonic in the LOA for yet another year before being dumped in the pit. Tim has already been Robin for around 5 years in this version, which is really pushing it]

 they forget that Dick was trained by Bruce for 9/10 YEARS. Bruce, who distilled everything HE learned from travelling around the world and taught the most important parts of to Dick. And Dick trained under Shrike, the LOA’s best assassin for a couple of months, under Richard Dragon for a while, and with the various teen titans for years - Garth taught him how to hold his breath for way longer than a normal human, donna taught him stuff she learned from the amazons, and star fire from the warlords of okraa. Presumably, Dick learnt a lot about archery and a couple of new styles of martial arts from Roy too. And he spent his childhood fighting various, deadly villains over the years, giving him a lot more practical skill than RH. 

So, in conclusion, I think Jason believed what he was saying in the OP, but was fooling himself (I mean, Jason had genuinely tried to kill Dick previously whereas Dick was trying to help Jason in most of their previous fights, sooooo) and it’s this tendency towards overconfidence plus his emotional decisions AND lesser fighting skills that put Jason firmly below Dick and Bruce. At least bruce is old enough that Jason can probably eventually beat him, but I don’t think he’ll ever beat Dick - maybe a grown up Damian could?

While Dick was trying to get Jason to surrender and to manoeuvre him, Jason was so convinced of his own superior fighting skills that he didn’t even notice that he was faring much better in the fight than he should have been - and that Dick was therefore probably laying a trap. 

EDITS I Didn’t know where to put:

I’m sorry, but it feels like you’re both being purposely obtuse here long comment guy and numbered comment guy.  

‘Like you are the one making statements about Jason without backing it up or only using one instance over and over again. Meanwhile you have retcons that Jason was always holding back when he was originally fighting his family. Like just because you think Jason was trying to kill people doesn't mean that dude was 100% mentally or physically at those times.’

Dude, I used the four stories Jason actually fights with bats as proof as well as MULTIPLE instances from the two outlaw series. I’m sorry for assuming that Jason was trying to kill his family when he shoot Tim in the chest and dragged his bleeding from the chest body back to a bobby tapped cave so he die the same way Jason did. Or when he shot Damian in the chest to escape or planted landmines and tried collapsing a cave on Dick. or when he gloated at the thought of Dick dying when Bludhaven exploded.  

Or in UTRH when he tried blowing Bruce and the joker up.

It’s clearly all in my head. 

You’re the one using ONE elseworld retcon to argue that Jason was always holding back even when his own thoughts in panels say otherwise. Sure, he wasn’t ALWAYS trying to kill the bats when they fought - but he definitely tried in BftC, the end of UTRH, and in Batman and Robin. Let’s note the Bats were NEVER trying to kill him and were therefore always holding back. 

As for Jason doing well in the fight because GA and Batman got away from the League, that’s kinda sus - for one, they used gadgets, two Dick’s the vampire KING, which I think comes with some special powers, but fair enough, not proven so we can ignore that; three Jason pulled Bruce’s heart out of his chest and stomp-exploded Tim’s head. He’s clearly got super strength and since he was trying to recruit Jason, didn’t want to risk killing him by accident. 

And I’ve given multiple instances of Jason making emotional decisions based on overconfidence and anger - read the stories I referenced from the Outlaws instead of just ignoring things you don’t like. 

Also, what are your multiple instances of Jason beating Dick and Bruce? Jason beat Bruce ONCE by tasing him. That’s it. Even in UTRH, Jason’s final plan flopped. And Jason beat dick - the infamous gun versus escrima stick - and even that had more to do with the weaponry in question that their actual hand to hand combat skills. 

As for proof, you have none for Jason being an unusual quick learner than the other robins or for him being better at reading body language or for Jason out-strategising Dick and Bruce. 

Also, a lot of unpleasantness between Dick and Jason usually starts with Jason - Dick’s almost never the one to start the fight (which often gives him the advantages of surprise) and Jason STILL almost never wins. 

Also, both of you, I’m not saying Jason is a bad fighter - he’s one of the best human combatants. I’m just saying Dick is more than a bit better.

I hope you guys have fun with Fanon, but maybe work on your tone long comment guy? I mad sure to add to the best of my knowledge when I wasn’t sure about things, and yes, I was wrong a couple of times - but so were you, and you didn’t bother adding a caveat. For example, you don’t see me saying it’s on you for not reading every single Nightwing/robin/titans/batman comic before saying (falsely). that there was nothing suggesting Dick was faster or more naturally talented. 

That Annual is literally the dumbest Nightwing plot ever - it takes a special kind of stupid to sleep with someone while inviting them to your wedding and has never been mentioned by anyone ever - not even the characters involved. It was a shitty retcon to make DickBabs look like a childhood lovers kind of thing. 

Like how I’m sure you don’t consider it canon that Jason blew up Mia’s (Speedy) school just because she refused to become his sidekick (it was completely unnecessary, and Jason was no longer crazy at that point *shrugs*)

----

Dude, everyone knows there’s all kinds of PIS and that DC’ll make whoever they want win. Please, Helena (I think) once said Dinah was as good a fighter as batman and there’re all kinds of stupid, OOC fights. 

I was arguing that, according to canon, Jason’s statement about always holding back and actually being better than Dick is just flat out wrong and it’s partly Jason’s overconfidence and succumbing to the emotion of the fight that makes Dick the better fighter. 

———–

EDIT: Man, Jason’s the kind of person who told Dick he was better than him when he’d only just become robin. His word’s worth very little. 

Like, dude, I know we can headcanon stuff, but when you argue with people about the general validity/believability of your headcanons, you need proof. And some proofs are better than others - for example, stuff that’s been repeated by multiple authors over multiple storylines. 

Like, I like the idea that Jason’s a huge Wonder Woman fan, but he’s never actually shown as one in canon. And there’s only two issues I remember that mention him liking Jane Austen or literature, but I headcanon that he’s a lot more into it than Dick despite there being four mentions of Dick’s affinity for Shakespeare - I think Dick memorised a lot of quotes the way I just happened too, but that they mean a lot more to Jason.

But if someone argued that Dick’s more into Shakespeare that Jason, or that Jason’s canonically shown more enthusiasm over Superman than wonder woman, I wouldn’t use my personal hc to argue against it because I have no proof. And if someone did do that, well, it’s not going to be a productive conversation.

[aalghul]

That post about how tim should be battinson's robin is absolutely insane to me. Im just BEGGING op to think about the logistics for a sec, why would tim EVER need to create the name Robin? And in this situation what the hell could ever be the reason behind him creating Robin? He would have NO reason to even choose a similar name or use the same colour scheme.

Also what would bruce even see in tim if he was the first kid he sees? "Rich white boy with parents that are kinda ok?" (Im going to stone the 'bad parents jack and janet drake' and 'tim drake needs a hug' tags to death)

That’s exactly what’s getting to me right now because the “he’s the only useful Robin” crap is something I already know fans love but. Tim would never be Robin (or any sidekick filling Robin’s role, since Dick can’t create it) if not for Jason’s death. Like, ever. Exactly! Dick and Jason (to a lesser degree, but it’s canon) are Bruce seeing himself in these kids that were pulled from childhoods, without anyone to support them. So he becomes that person. Tim has parents who love him, even if they’re not good at being parents. His parents’ death doesn’t happen until much later, and it never would’ve motivated him to do anything like Dick or Jason. “Tim Drake as the first Robin” cannot exist.