scriptlgbt

[scriptlgbt]

Tacking this on:

Keep it under 2 paragraphs. We do want to hear the relevant details to your story, but if your ask feels like we're trying to weed out the question of what you're actually asking, we will have a harder time answering promptly.

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Thanks so much! We look forward to helping you with your writing! 

Love, the Mods

[scriptlgbt]

Hello! I've been outlining a story with a trans female character in the ensemble cast that involves travelling the world on a scavenger hunt (kind of like "The Amazing Race," if you've heard of that).

I've heard that it can be difficult to bring medication on flights, particularly international flights, so I was wondering if you knew how she might be able to bring her hormone blockers with her from place to place.

This is going to depend on which specific international flights and which borders she would be crossing!

Different legal jurisdictions and borders will have slightly different protocol around things. For instance, in general, crossing the Canada-USA border, I haven't had issues with bringing medication that is clearly labelled in their original containers with the prescription information. (I am also a white person, and most of my medication happens to be stuff that's relatively common to take, like venlafaxine.) I have yet to cross the border with testosterone. (When I have been on testosterone, I was taking it intra-muscularly by injection every two weeks at most often, and generally was not scheduled to be on it while I was travelling.) When I cross the border with it in the future, I will probably only take the vial and then ask whatever friends I'm staying with for a lead on needles and proper disposal, since I'd just feel a bit sketchy crossing a border or taking a plane with needles. Especially as, where I live, needles are not prescribed. They are something you have to buy separately. (I usually use a needle exchange program local to me since I can't exactly afford it. Specifically this one, if anyone wants to see an example for reference.) There are some places where needles are prescription-only, or places where a border may require that your needles are by prescription. Testosterone is also generally considered a "controlled substance" because it is a steroid, whereas estrogen isn't, at least where I live. (So-called "ontario, canada".)

I'll add that injections tend to be more popular with testosterone, and people who are on estrogen usually take oral pills, but some do take injections. (What format someone takes hormones in is usually a combo of personal preference and what insurance will cover. Mine only covers injections as they are the cheapest.) Some folks trying to move from testosterone-dominant to estrogen-dominant take an androgen blocker, like spironolactone or cyproterone. These medications are also sometimes used for other things, like prostate cancer, or as birth control, so they are sometimes available to individuals who need them for those reasons as well. (I had an ex who said that whenever she went to pick up cyproterone, the pharmacist assumed she was a man with prostate cancer and was very sympathetic but misgendering.) (This was like 12 years ago though.) There are also people who do "monotherapy" where they only take estrogen. This is more common in people who have had their gonads (such as testicles) removed, but is increasingly popular in people who haven't.

Some HRT is more available in some places than others for a variety of reasons, and it's probably best to look up what the options are if your character needs to refill their meds in a certain location.

I would also mention: where I live, I can get medication for up to 3 months at a time. If I am travelling, there are some protocols I could arrange with my phramacist to prove it if I'm travelling for longer than that and need more. Your mileage may vary with wherever your character is from and usually gets their prescription filled.

I would look into the settings that you're intending on featuring in the story and search up "transgender hormones crossing [country] [other country] border" and see what people's actual experiences are in those specific locations. There may also be some places where specific medications are criminalized.

I would imagine if you're writing a situation involving a TV show like The Amazing Race, these things would probably be figured out with showrunners in advance of the show. Maybe there's someone on staff who is down to hold onto the character's hormones in a specific country leave and go back to at some point. Like Jim holds onto Sally's hormones in Transland, while Sally does an obstacle course in Notransland, and comes back to a hotel Transland for the night.

mod nat

[scriptlgbt]

Hi, the thing about requiring trans actors to play trans characters.. how about if I want to write about filming a trans character's before they knew they were trans or they knew but hadn't transitioned thus they appear as their agab? Is that okay to have a cis or at least nonbinary trans who is the same agab? Or should they get a trans actor to present as how they used to look, and I doubt many would want to. What about when they were a child where they have to use another actor?

This isn't exactly a writing question but it's close enough that I'll take the bait.

Transness is not defined by transition. It is defined by an identity that does not correlate with what was assigned.

Nonbinary people are not 'less' trans than binary trans people, so the 'at least' wording part of this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

There are trans people who opt to never change anything about their bodies or gender expression, etc. Trans people exist in every form. Including the appearance associated with "pre-transition" and there is truly no excuse to have a cis person playing a trans character.

There are cases where individuals may feel personally comfortable with stretching this, but it always ought to be trans people leading that. An example that comes to mind are Laverne Cox's twin brother playing a pre-transition version of her. Another example would be if a trans woman is playing a trans man and vice versa, only if all trans people involved are cool with it. (I realize the difference seems arbitrary, but I'm more comfortable with a trans woman playing me than a cis woman, because for one, trans people already are passed over for employment, and for another, I feel that a trans woman better represents my relationship to womanhood than a cis woman ever could, even though I am trans in a different direction.) (Basically: there are so few situations where an exception could be made, and it's not really worth exploring.)

mod nat

[scriptlgbt]

My character realizes they are trans in a story that’s genre is horror. Could this be considered a bad representation? I’m afraid of accidentally offending someone, as I’m not trans myself. ;-; Sorry if I’m a bother.

You aren’t a bother, this blog is here with the whole purposes of answering these kinds of questions!

Having a trans character self-realize within the horror genre is completely fine.

- mod nat

[scriptlgbt]

Person with the trans man who meets someone with his deadname

The reason I wanted to emphasize it so much is because the two characters will be interacting a lot and will become friends, and I kinda wanted to do something with that information instead of it being a random fact

I don’t want to be weird so what’s a better way to handle this information? As I also don’t want the information to be random and have no use

In reference to this previous ask.

I genuinely don't see why this would need to be anything more than coincidence. Deadnames aren't something inherently magical or sacred. (This sense of sacredness may vary culturally, in which case, seek out voices of whatever culture you are seeking to represent.)

I have had friends who had my deadname. Some of them know that (because I thought it was funny, or it came up because I asked them to pick up a package with my deadname on it or something). Most of them do not. There are exceedingly few trans people who share their deadname with anyone, including other trans people. Deadnames have a long history of being weaponized against us and being used as a means of control and belittling. There are people who specifically avoid interacting with anyone who has their deadname. There are people who are actively triggered hearing their deadname.

I mainly skirted over these things because I assumed that perhaps you might have already understood this. I think the insistence that you want it to be something special, and your chaffing against the advice I gave about it, may be an indication that you don't.

You do not have to "do anything" with this information. If you absolutely feel like you HAVE TO involve your trans character's deadname in the story at all (something I have seldom seen done by any author in a way that was respectful), the idea of emphasizing it intentionally just gives me the heebie jeebies. It would definitely be a paragraph starting with, "I feel really gross about how they did this," in my StoryGraph and Goodreads reviews.

I think it's important to understand that trans readers with our own unique relationships to our deadnames are a part of the audience, and we deserve to have our feelings understood and respected, and represented with that respect.

If you want to write a trans person who kept their deadname or really loves it, that's totally fine, but you need to understand that this is a rarer experience. I opted to keep my name for the first 4 years or so of being openly trans, in part because it was already a neutral name. I am speaking as someone who is more comfortable with my deadname than a lot of people are. And if someone wanted to represent my own relationship to my deadname, I think that would be fine. If they either were writing from their own individual experience, or had a co-writer, or were trans and had a sensitivity reader who was also trans and came from this specific experience. This is a lane that is only for certain people to walk in. I think your desire to make this more than what it is indicates to me a lack of respect for that.

I say this with all the love in my heart, please let go of this desire to make a deadname some kind of special bonding experience between a trans person and a cis person. (I could maybe see it being funny or cute if there were two trans people who literally coincidentally swapped names, but as far as I'm aware, in my 14 years of being openly trans and having a pretty popular deadname, including as a chosen name for other trans people, I have never come across a situation where that has happened, though I wouldn't actually know because trans people generally don't tell people our deadnames for a reason.)

mod nat

[scriptlgbt]

NSFW Ask: Sex, fetishization of trans people, offensive terminology

Before I proceed with answering this question, I want to acknowledge that this is a really personal and heavy topic for a lot of people, and that includes myself in certain aspects. Feel free to respond or reblog with your own personal feelings and experiences, but please always engage in good faith and with respect. Understand that although we are talking in a theoretical way for writing purposes, there are real human beings involved in this topic who have identities, feelings and autonomy worth respecting.

Anonymous asked on February 16th:

If there are characters in my story that are the type to fetishize trans people - ie. the types to use outdated/porny names like shemales, futa, dickgirl, or into stuff like fantasy gender transformation stuff... can I ask what such people actually think about reality and how trans people should actually be viewed in real life? Or is it like a wide range out there and you'll find some that genuinely accept trans people, the other end think it's just a fantasy kink that shouldn't be in real life. second part of ask. i mean when i say others who think it's a just a fantasy kink that shouldnt be in real life... i suppose i mean i'm thinking the thought might be akin to people who have into rape fantasies and stuff but do not condone such in reality. what would be prevalence of such people on this kind of spectrum. obviously, i'm not writing these people as being positive - but such people exist.

-

Answer:

In general in my own life, I try to avoid chasers, in part because my rapist was one. He acted as though he respected me but there were a lot of microaggressions, and he would say derogatory things about other trans friends of mine. Not necessarily things that were obvious, but more along the lines of 'why would they expect anything less than oppression, they don't understand the Real World where people don't know that nonbinary people exist, it doesn't make sense for them to be upset about this.'

Fetishization of transness is problematic because it treats being attracted to trans people as something so abnormal that it is relegated to fetish. Fetishization of real demographics of people, be it trans people, amputees, racialized people, happens more often when society makes it seem unacceptable to see these people as regular people. Attraction to marginalized people is seen as a kind of exception to the norm of human experiences. We're kind of put in this freak show category.

In part because of this, it makes it difficult for us to navigate a lot of spaces where sexuality is expressed. There's an entire Facebook group called "Trans Grindr Aesthetic" where trans people post screenshots of stuff people have sent them on grindr. A lot of kink clubs etc, need to be explicitly queer-friendly for some us to feel comfortable with them. Either because people are predatory and weird, or because they are settings where we are put in a position of having to educate people when we just want to have a good time.

That isn't to say you shouldn't be asking someone you're looking to get involved with questions - just make sure they are about things that are actually relevant and consent-focused, like, "what terms are you comfortable with when I refer to your body," or "how do you like to be touched?" -- These are distinct from questions like, "so how did you know you were trans?" And, "What do you think about puberty blockers?"

Another element to this which I haven't touched on, is that there is a subculture of trans people who do fetishize their own transness, and who do consent to people doing this (fetishizing them, or indulging in their fetish) in a specific context where all that is very clearly communicated. I haven't mulled this over too much, but I feel like the main difference (aside from yknow, consent) is that it's gender (and associated expressions and constructs) itself that is the thing being played with and poked at, rather than an entire demographic of people. Maybe that's a fuzzy distinction for some people.

I imagine a gender or sexuality studies academic has probably written a whole thesis on this topic at some point.

To get back on the topic of writing characters who fetishize trans people: Everyone is different. There are people out there who use kink scenes to figure out some stuff about themselves. There are some people who engage in these scenes because there is more open communication about soft/hard limits and desires. There are also some people who only ever think or talk about trans people in sexual settings, who abandon us societally, who think we are objects to be used and discarded, who have no imagination or understanding of our daily lives, who are actively working against our liberation.

How you write a character like this is really up to you. Someone will probably take issue with it, no matter how you engage with the topic, but I do encourage you to be open to understanding the points of those who do, along with those who may take refuge in whatever you write. I would consider it a red flag if the only people who appreciate your writing are cis people though.

mod nat

[scriptlgbt]

How do I call characters who were born as identical twins but one of them is non-binary but has not transitioned medically. Are they still 'identical'? One is 3 inches shorter than the other, one wears glasses one is muscular the other average, they also have wildly different clothing/hairstyles so there's never actually a misunderstanding. But yeah if they were cis you'd still call such identical even though they look so different but not sure about if one was non-binary.

"Identical" in terms of twins refers to the specific genetic phenomenon - like how they came to be twins. It's not really a gender thing.

Identical twins also don't always "look" identical. Sometimes non-identical twins also "look" identical but they aren't, scientifically speaking.

The specifics of twin genetics aren't really in the purview of this blog, but I will say I recommend maybe doing more research on this topic in general if you're planning to represent characters who are twins. Twins can also be half identical, and there can also be triplets where two are identical and the third isn't. There are also twins who grow up thinking they are identical and then get genetic testing done to find out they aren't.

All that said, I think most people will wonder how your characters got to be 3 inches apart in height if they are truly identical and neither has taken any hormones.

mod nat

[scriptlgbt]

How do I call characters who were born as identical twins but one of them is non-binary but has not transitioned medically. Are they still 'identical'? One is 3 inches shorter than the other, one wears glasses one is muscular the other average, they also have wildly different clothing/hairstyles so there's never actually a misunderstanding. But yeah if they were cis you'd still call such identical even though they look so different but not sure about if one was non-binary.

"Identical" in terms of twins refers to the specific genetic phenomenon - like how they came to be twins. It's not really a gender thing.

Identical twins also don't always "look" identical. Sometimes non-identical twins also "look" identical but they aren't, scientifically speaking.

The specifics of twin genetics aren't really in the purview of this blog, but I will say I recommend maybe doing more research on this topic in general if you're planning to represent characters who are twins. Twins can also be half identical, and there can also be triplets where two are identical and the third isn't. There are also twins who grow up thinking they are identical and then get genetic testing done to find out they aren't.

All that said, I think most people will wonder how your characters got to be 3 inches apart in height if they are truly identical and neither has taken any hormones.

mod nat

[scriptlgbt]

How do I call characters who were born as identical twins but one of them is non-binary but has not transitioned medically. Are they still 'identical'? One is 3 inches shorter than the other, one wears glasses one is muscular the other average, they also have wildly different clothing/hairstyles so there's never actually a misunderstanding. But yeah if they were cis you'd still call such identical even though they look so different but not sure about if one was non-binary.

"Identical" in terms of twins refers to the specific genetic phenomenon - like how they came to be twins. It's not really a gender thing.

Identical twins also don't always "look" identical. Sometimes non-identical twins also "look" identical but they aren't, scientifically speaking.

The specifics of twin genetics aren't really in the purview of this blog, but I will say I recommend maybe doing more research on this topic in general if you're planning to represent characters who are twins. Twins can also be half identical, and there can also be triplets where two are identical and the third isn't. There are also twins who grow up thinking they are identical and then get genetic testing done to find out they aren't.

All that said, I think most people will wonder how your characters got to be 3 inches apart in height if they are truly identical and neither has taken any hormones.

mod nat

[scriptlgbt]

Hi, I created two trans AFAB characters in a futuristic sci-fi setting, one is a binary trans man (Haron) and the other is non-binary (Nestor). Do you think having Nestor (who was openly trans back then) introduce the concept of being transgender to Haron who was simply having a masculine gender expression , while they were both kids, a good idea? For context: Haron sort of felt like he was indeed trans but did not really understand what it meant until he talked it out with Nestor.

I don't see anything wrong with this personally! Every trans person's egg cracks differently.

There is an etiquette surrounding introducing these ideas to individuals though. This is the etiquette that I try to honour if I think a friend of mine may be trans, but doesn't know it yet.

Don't tell anyone who they are.

Don't tell them who you think they are - they are the authority on this, and your place as a supportive person is to trust their own process and expertise.

Your identity and experience is not theirs, but may be able to help them add data points together to help frame their own experience. Phrases that sort of channel this vibe: "I used to feel that way too," "That wasn't my experience, but I know other people who feel that way. You're not alone." "This is how getting misgendered feels like for me personally." "This is what ultimately made me realize I was trans. Not that it has to mean that for you if you don't feel that way, this was just my experience."

Just straight up don't assume anything, and make sure they know you aren't assuming anything about what they do with the information you give them about transness (your own personal info or otherwise), if anything.

Understand that there are people of every gender identity who can do anything. A cis woman can choose to get top surgery. A cis man can use she/her pronouns. There are people of every gender (and lack thereof!!!) who relate to everything they wear like it's an art project, or a drag show, or a rebellion, or a thing of complete indifference. There are people who want 3 boob!!!! Gender is whatever you want it to be. There is no prescription you have to follow about it. You don't have to commit to the whole of everything people expect just because one day you want to cut your hair a certain way and experiment with a different name. You are allowed to have freedom, and it doesn't have to mean anything. I'm dating a man who uses she/her pronouns right now! There are people who take hormones who identify as cis. There are people who identify as lesbian bears. There are trans people that never come out and there are trans people who come out and don't change anything about their expression, name, pronouns, etc.

Maintain a vibe of openness, enthusiasm, and support. Let your friend take the reigns on their own experience.

"Let me know if anything changes."

Don't call anyone an egg (unless they tell you that's okay - and only after they opt to self-refer that way).

Trust the pronouns, etc that someone gives you today. Don't go making assumptions that someone would actually prefer pronouns they never said they wanted, just because they are dressing a certain way now, etc.

Basically respect and celebrate where people are at, and don't push anyone who is questioning into any particular conclusion, and don't push anyone into questioning. Just maintain an openness.

All this said, I think at some point there are some people (in reality) that didn't really pick up on the memo about this etiquette. Sometimes people are jerks, and sometimes people don't mean to be jerks, but still make assumptions and projections that they think might be helpful but maybe aren't. When it comes to writing fiction, you get to figure out how your characters would approach this topic, and what you want to communicate to the readers about it.

mod nat

[scriptlgbt]

Are you guys still active/accepting asks?

We're trying our best!

And by that, I mean that I'm kind of the only active-ish mod currently, and I will sort of answer a few asks every now and again and put them in the queue. For transparency, I'm still in touch with a few other mods, it's just hard for some folks to answer as ScriptLGBT is run as a separate Tumblr account, so we need to log in and out of our regular blogs to answer asks. We've looked into seeing if it can be registered as a side blog so we could access it better, but because it was registered as part of a specific account as a Main Blog, Tumblr doesn't let you do that.

We've also thought about just straight up starting afresh and making a new blog to send folks to, one that would be able to be a side blog. The convo didn't really reach a conclusion, and frankly and I'm eager to hear how you folks feel about it, since we'd be redirecting you. There's a lot of years in this blog and a little under 8 thousand followers, with it having been a few thousand when I started around 2016. It's hard to know what would be best to make sure we're getting the information and help people want.

There are also others in the ScriptFamily who I talk with regularly, including sometimes about asks received. So like, even if it looks like it's just me here, I don't feel alone in it, and I do consult others frequently.

All this said, I'm sorry we haven't been able to be as active as we were when Tumblr was a little more lively. I really love writing for this blog and if I could make it a day job, I would.

mod nat

[scriptlgbt]

Is it homophobic for a character to not care about their kid coming out in a negative way?

The character himself isn’t homophobic, he’s on the phone with his boss when his son comes to him and says he has something to tell him and he dismisses him but he son says it’s important so he puts the phone on hold and the son comes out as gay

He doesn’t care his son is gay and only reacts negatively because he doesn’t find the information of his son being gay important enough to put his boss on hold for so is upset with that and sends the son to his room

He doesn’t comfort the son after this either because he genuinely doesn’t think he did anything wrong, but I’m wondering if this makes him homophobic or just disrespectful

Hmm. I think this is a bit ignorant of him, definitely disrespectful but I think it would be up to the son whether it's homophobic or not. Mainly, I think it's ignorant because it's obviously very important to the son, and coming out in a heteronormative society is a big deal when it feels like it is. I think the specifics other than that depend on what is said and how, and how it all falls out from there. I think it also says a lot about a character that they prioritize their boss in this circumstance and assume that their boss would not understand.

(Also, I don't think all boss phone calls are equal? Like if it's a regular thing about a schedule change it's got a different vibe than if someone were in a performance review, or if someone were talking about budget cuts where someone might end up getting fired.)

Whether writing this is homophobic? I think you're totally fine to write this scene. It's definitely a thing that happens with some people unfortunately. As long as you make sure the audience knows that you as a writer are on the same page about it being unsupportive, it should be fine.

mod nat

[scriptlgbt]

Hi there,

I’ve gotten some negative feedback recently on how I’m handling a currently in denial, soon to be in the closet, and in the future out, trans side character and I was hoping I could get some advice.

The character in question is a trans girl, but right now in the story he insists to himself that he’s a boy, and so he still uses his birth name and he/him pronouns for himself. And because no one else in it knows about what’s going on with him internally they all just assume he’s cis and refer to him as a boy.

The problem I’ve been having is that I refer to him with the above when I discuss him outside of the story. But I’ve had writer friends tell me that it’s going to come off as transphobic in the long run, even though I plan to switch it up once the character comes out to at least one other character and starts using she/her, a preferred name, and referring to herself as a girl.

I’ve explained to them that even though the character is a girl, that’s not how they currently identify, so it’s technically misgendering and forcing someone into a role that they aren’t comfortable with yet (this might be where I’m humanizing the character a bit too much), but that hasn’t convinced them.

And I’ve also explained that I want to keep their self-discovery on the down-low for narrative reasons (but not completely in the background), it’s not going to be a massive, shocking reveal that no one saw coming, but I do want it to lean in the direction of “anyone can be trans, even people you wouldn’t immediately expect,” and especially because I’ve gotten that reaction when talking about this character in particular. But I’ve been told that I’m still leading on readers because I’m not being honest about the character’s internal struggles and still framing the character as a cis boy until I pull the rug out from under them with the reveal.

(To add, I have more trans characters and the pair are some of the POV characters, they’re not stereotypes but right off the bat the reader knows they’re trans because they mention it, and I’m agender myself.)

I agree with the criticism you've received, personally.

The fact that you as an author are using these pronouns for the character when communicating to me, does feel indicative of a larger problem. You describe this character as being "in denial" yet still seem to want to say that the character identifies as a boy. These are two somewhat different ways of relating to a past. There are many trans people who will say things like, "when I was a boy" etc, but generally they do not necessarily see those periods as being in denial, so much as a genuine identification with that gender at the time. Many people also have fluid identities, or may be a trans woman who just happens to like the way he/him sounds, or maybe just doesn't care about pronouns. But the way that you are going about this doesn't really read to me like it's aligning with an intention to understand and represent an authentic trans experience. You are an author with the omniscient level of understanding of your story and characters, and it feels gross to not use that to respect a trans character's identity as you know it. It seems weird that you would want to rep this like self-discovery of an identity that was felt the whole time, but still want to rep this like a fluidity approach where you're referring to the character as though you yourself are another character in this story. Also, the egg experience sometimes includes signs. Sometimes it doesn't, but sometimes it does.

If it is your specific trans experience, as an openly trans author, to experience this simultaneous fluidity and also having identified a given way all along without realizing it, that is a different matter. You'd be writing from your own experience, and the readers would know that you were being authentic and not just looking for an excuse to misgender a character.

When writing about trans characters before they are out, you need to understand and respect your trans audience members, and the way you write your trans characters will be something that some people will go back and re-read and maybe have to process their feelings about.

What might writing this (a character coming out partway through a story) look like? Maybe it's having the story written in the distant past, or through flashbacks. What kind of narration are you using? Third person? Whose point of view? Is this a major character, or a minor character mentioned a couple times? Is there a way to make information clear to the audience and utilize dramatic irony?

Also, WHY does this need to be framed as a surprise or plot twist? What indicators are you having of the character being in egg mode (if applicable)? How are you handling this character with care and seeking to represent trans people as we feel represented by?

I Wish You All The Best by Mason Deaver did a great job of showing the first scene as being the point where a traumatic coming out had already happened, and the audience read what happened in the coming chapters. This is also a great way to frame coming out to the audience.

Think about it this way: if someone puts down your book and talks about the character, they need to be gendered correctly by that audience. You as an author are already being really weird about that. (I'm open to other trans followers feeling differently about this and sharing their thoughts in the replies/reblogs.)

We also have a whole Closeted Characters tag, a Coming Out: To The Reader Tag, among others.

This post also includes us (ScriptLGBT) asking trans folks their feelings on the topic of writing trans characters before they are out.

Just personally, I feel really weird about the way you're writing this and talking about this and I think you're punching above your weight class in terms of trying to represent this specific kind of trans experience. I would either just not do it this way, or heavily change what you're doing.

The books of Tess of the Road by Rachel Hartman (I believe In The Serpent's Wake had this part) include a character called Spira, who is intersex and who uses they/them until the end of one of the books where Spira is offered the chance to try on other pronouns, where Spira opts to try on she/her as an experiment. The POV (from what I can recall) was third person limited, with a bit of a revolving point of view, and this scene is told through a different character's point of view. The narration changes at this point, but I feel like that's done really well because it's seen as just kind of a surface level trying-on-as-an-experiment thing, and that they/them were also very much accurate pronouns, and she/her isn't necessarily representative of womanhood, so much as pronouns themselves.

Honestly I may need to percolate on this one a bit more, but these are all my initial impressions of your approach as a trans person.

mod nat

[scriptlgbt]

Sorry if this is a silly question, but is it a problem to write bisexual characters being in polyam relationships?

I have a group of characters in my story and two of them start dating, and then one of them reunites with her childhood friend/first crush. I wanted to subvert the "Girl has to chose between hot guy and childhood friend" thing and have them end up in a bi4bi4bi polyam relationship instead.

But I just saw a post talking about how it's a bad if bisexual characters are dating/having sex with multiple people because it reinforces the stereotype that bisexuals are greedy.

Is that even a thing? I know that there's a stereotype that bisexuals are cheaters or promiscuous but I don't think I've ever seen a show/movie with a polyam relationship, let alone a polyam relationship with a bisexual character(s).

As a bi polyamorous person, I think the idea that polyamory is some kind of stereotype, or bisexuality is some kind of stereotype, inherently is someone pigeonholing those identities in a harmful way. It sounds like whoever made that post thinks that polyamory implies greed, when it doesn't. It's just a relationship format. It works for some people and for others it doesn't.

There are so many real life people that will probably feel represented by this kind of work. There also already is some representation with mspec (bi/pan/otherwise multiple-gender-attracted people) polyamory out there and they write it pretty well. Iron Widow by Xiran Jay Zhao is one great example of this I think. Really Cute People by Markus Harwood-Jones is another example of a queer triad of everyone being mspec.

Basically, I wouldn't worry about it. Some people who have misunderstandings about polyamory or bisexuality may feel weird about it, but I think that stems from their own ignorance. Neither of those things make someone greedy or entitled. Polyamory is not being careless with other people's hearts, it's not being entitled, etc. (Though there are people who call themselves polyamorous who haven't done much inner work, who may be like that.) If you're really concerned, you can always add some monogamous bi rep in there in passing, but I don't think it's necessary in order to make the main bi4bi4bi triad good representation.

mod nat

[scriptlgbt]

How should I show that a character's nonbinary when they themselves don't know? Should I even do it if they'll just be misgendered the whole story?

They're born in the early 70s (when the main story takes place they're 22). They have trans relatives but I don't think they know there are options beyond (a) staying their AGAB, (b) transitioning to the other binary gender, or (c) drag, which isn't really their thing.

I want to make it deeper than "they think gender roles are stupid" but I don't know where to start in portraying an nb egg.

[I'm assuming a lot about the culture of the particular 70s you're referring to. My POV is that I am "canadian" and much of my own personal knowledge of transness in this era comes from research in US archives. YMMV when it comes to places outside the heavily American sphere of cultural influence.]

So first of all, the 70s had a bit of a renaissance of androgyny. A common thing I'll see in advice columns of the era is someone asking what to do as a customer service worker when they "can't tell" what gender they think someone is, because of their hairstyle and the way they are dressed. I imagine there probably were a lot of people who took refuge in that ambiguity. A fro, a pageboy haircut, all these are something that people of any gender (not necessarily every texture but I digress) could wear.

Secondly, I figured out I was nonbinary before I knew it existed, before I had the words for it. (Though the term genderqueer was the in vogue one in the community at the time I figured my stuff out.) It's just that I sort of saw it as, "hmmm, well, I feel kind of between these things." And I think I'd seen it as sort of "half-trans" until I really understood transness better. (Note: this was for like a week tops.) I also went through a period of time a few years before this where I just sort of saw myself as a crossdresser (not drag - just someone who chooses to dress and cut their hair as they are comfortable and feel happy), but like, that as my gender identity, if that makes sense. I didn't have access to community of other people who felt like I did in order to compare to. But at the time, this also meant that when I talked about my feelings with others, they wouldn't have the same hangups about what it would mean for them if they said they felt the same. There were a lot of people I talked to in 2011ish who basically said they experienced gender as I did, only, I don't think most of them would understand for another 4 years at least.

One day I'd like to post more info about nonbinary history (especially in the 70s), but I'm just dumping info at this point. Something I will suggest for more on the topic is reading Lou Sullivan's diary, and reading autobiographies from trans people who were alive then. Even when they weren't out, they still existed, and lived in a world where they were carving out spaces for themselves.

To my understanding also, a lot of trans culture at the time sort of distinguished "transvestite" (trans people generally? but who haven't accessed medical transition) and "transsexual" (trans people who have or are intending to transition medically). Trans people of every variety might change gender expression based on their outness or the safety they had, and this didn't make them less seen as trans per se. A lot of people who ID'd either way (though more for "transvestite") would have a variety of approaches to things like name and pronouns. If this were the dominant terminology of the time that I were figuring things out, I'd probably have called myself a transvestite, though I would have likely been questioning the transsexual label for a while and ultimately not been able to access medical transition. (Though it depends on when in the 70s iirc - there was a time earlier on where it was easier to access I believe, but I'd need to fact check.)

In terms of general nonbinary egg mode stuff, or at least egg for an era where being nonbinary is not widely known to be a thing, here's some 'signs' (some are just straight up "that's canon if you put that in") I've brainstormed.

admiring specific fashion trends and looks that are gender nonconforming or androgynous (especially celebrities - maybe glam rock musicians, Joan Jett) (Joan Jett was huge for egg me personally...)

finding a lot of different ways to express how they feel in words (the "man/woman in a woman/man's body" phrasing is something that has historically bugged me, but people have used it throughout history) (more examples, dependant on the person, "I feel just as un/comfortable in my body and the way people see me as I would if I'd been born differently." "It's not a wo/man's haircut, it's mine." "I feel like a guy among my guy friends and a girl among my girl friends." "I feel uncomfortable when I go out with my partner and we are assumed to be straight/gay, though I don't know why." "I really enjoyed breeches roles when I did theatre in high school." "It felt good when I was mistaken for a woman.")

referring to themselves in their head with neutral terms

having dreams where they are recognized as themselves

feeling at home around trans people and queer people in general

watching or listening to certain songs/movies/etc that feel Gender for them over and over again

some kind of fixation on facial hair/other body part or lack thereof

it feeling different when different people use gendered terminology for the character (ex: a conservative Girl Guide leader calling everyone "ladies" vs a gay man saying "hey girl"). this is usually to do with what it's assumed the speaker's assigned meaning to the word is.

Re: misgendering through the whole story. A really convenient way to curb this would be to just have the character feel like the way they are (mis)gendered is also a part of their identity, it just isn't the whole picture. Another thing I sort of thought of in my early years was like, if people think I'm a woman, at least they understand there is something off about it. Whether they think I'm a butch lesbian or intersex (which was very regularly assumed throughout my life, at least until the general public started to catch wind of genderqueer identities). It matters to me that they at least understand my approach to gender is queer.

Another approach would be to have the story written from a distant past tense where the reader knows the identity of the character, because everything is told in distant hindsight. This is my favourite approach personally.

-mod nat

[scriptlgbt]

How do you know if you have TOO many LGBT+ characters, especially in a family? Even before considering the fact this was all in one family dynamic, there are two lesbians, two genderqueer/nonbinary (one which may end up trans), a polyam in a relationship with two outside individuals, and the trans protagonist. I want to add more outside LGBT+ characters, but don't want to end up pandering to them (for reference, I'm NB trans and male-attracted).

There’s no such thing as too many LGBT+ characters! We’ve had a lot of media that has been filled with exclusively allocishet characters, meant to pander to allocishet audiences. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what you have described. It’s completely fine and it helps create more of a balance. I also touched very, very briefly here about realism when it comes to one family dynamic having multiple LGBT+ folks.

I want to add that I kind of assume most nonbinary and genderqueer folks generally also identify as trans. Just to be on the cautious side of advising here, I do want to be clear that being trans is not defined by transition.

- mod nat

[scriptlgbt]

Hello. So you know how historically there were a few women that dressed as men to serve in the army or become surgeons etc. If I used that in my story, would that be considered LGBTQ+ representation, because I don’t think they identified as trans? I don’t know, but they were really cool. Thanks

Here’s a thing on the historical origins of trans terminology (specifically transgender, transsexual, other trans- words) from wikipedia:

Psychiatrist John F. Oliven of Columbia University coined the term transgender in his 1965 reference work Sexual Hygiene and Pathology, writing that the term which had previously been used, transsexualism, “is misleading; actually, ‘transgenderism’ is meant, because sexuality is not a major factor in primary transvestism.”[18][19][20] The term transgender was then popularized with varying definitions by various transgender, transsexual, and transvestite people, including Virginia Prince,[21] who used it in the December 1969 issue of Transvestia, a national magazine for cross dressers she founded.[22] By the mid-1970s both trans-gender and trans people were in use as umbrella terms,[note 1] and 'transgenderist’ was used to describe people who wanted to live cross-gender without sex reassignment surgery (SRS).[23] By 1976, transgenderist was abbreviated as TG in educational materials.[24]

By 1984, the concept of a “transgender community” had developed, in which transgender was used as an umbrella term.[25] In 1985, Richard Elkins established the “Trans-Gender Archive” at the University of Ulster.[22] By 1992, the International Conference on Transgender Law and Employment Policy defined transgender as an expansive umbrella term including “transsexuals, transgenderists, cross dressers”, and anyone transitioning.[26] Leslie Feinberg’s pamphlet, “Transgender Liberation: A Movement Whose Time has Come”, circulated in 1992, identified transgender as a term to unify all forms of gender nonconformity; in this way transgender has become synonymous with queer.[27]

Here’s another article on the history of the term transgender. 

I’m not going to really get into the terminology for LGBT+ because my god is it even more complex.

The thing is, the community has had a million different terminologies at different points. If we’re going just by technicals, I’d say that it’s not necessarily a fair translation. It’s like how we wouldn’t necessarily be able to talk in fluent Old English or get the culture stuff from those who speak it, it’s just one of those things that has naturally evolved and varied in concepts since then.

I am obviously not from those eras (as much as I like to joke that I am actually thousands of years old, I was born in 1994) and don’t really have the intimate knowledge of these eras (one colonial, anglo, etc cultural LGBT+ equivalent in comparison to the same but like a hundred or several hundred years later) in contrast to each other. Any research I do will not make me one of the people I am studying and I can’t just speak for them to opt in to what modern community they would want to consider themselves part of or not. They don’t live here and now in colonial anglo LGBT+ communities and it’s okay to not be able to translate everything exactly.

If you’re not sure if it feels like good representation, ask if people from these modern communities, can see themselves in those characters.

I think it’s also helpful to distinguish that it’s more relatable to trans people when these characters are living this way as expressions of ourselves and that it transcends just pragmatic reasons. 

- mod nat