#BL university

[heretherebedork]

A mostly failed attempt at a BL university set of gingerbread houses with @iguessitsjustme . But we tried! We tried very hard, damnit. @absolutebl and @benkaben there was an attempt! No architects here.

[absolutebl]

Hi!

I love your Blog and love to read your takes in everything. So thank you so much for all your Posts and thoughts about the industry etc.

Here is my question: i came across one of your posts where you wrote "actually gay, not bl gay" (it was a Post about Jojo and Only Friends) and while I FELT that I TOTALLY understood what you meant and instantly was like "yes 100% clear" Id love to read and learn more about what this means exactly and why some bls feel quite heteronormative while some dont. Would you mind explain the take on "actually gay Not Bl gay" a little bit? And why some Shows feel just more queer than others (besides the unbelievable stupid "gay only for you" trope lol)

Thank you so much and I hope you will have a nice day!

actually gay, not bl gay

There's actually quite a discourse on this right now mostly originating with @waitmyturtles and @wen-kexing-apologist (Post @killiru references above is here.)

I tend to mostly talk about this in broad brush strokes as a queer lens.

But there's a great ven diagram (which of course I've lost the link to) that approaches the idea of and queer lens by tunneling into its approach and intent:

about queers

by queers

for queers

How do different BLs intersect in different ways with these three elements?

When I said "actually gay, not BL gay" I was alluding to this discourse. Specifically the "about queers" category of BL.

There are characters in BL who read as genuinely gay (as in belonging to the queer family of this terrible reality we live in) and then there are those that seem more performative (to exist in a bubble of fantasy were sexual identity is almost unimportant, only the romance matters, everything is safe sweetness & light). For some queers this can read as manipulative or even exploitive (because it is inauthentic to most queer experiences). For me, it's fine... even desirable. I like the safe bubble. I enjoy the utter delusional escapism of it. Sometimes I will call this sanitized gay. (Since it is designed to make gay palatable to non-gay identified folks e.g. seme/uke.)

A sanitized gay BL may be unintentional but it is nested in origin yaoi and mm romance whose target market has never been the queer community, and whose authors have historically not been members of it, either.

Let's be frank, we queers are generally a terrible target market, we don't have enough spending power - especially not for a piece of pop culture as niched as BL. And as creators we really want our voices to be heard (obvs), which makes us produce content that those unsympathetic or uncaring find uncomfortable. (Yes, I know, fuck them, but also, they have all the money and the entertainment industry is a numbers game.)

So in the arena of office romances, just as an example:

actually gay = The New Employee

sanitized gay = Our Dating Sim

actual gay = Step By Step

sanitized gay = A Boss And a Babe

All of the above have the same tropes, archetypes, and premises. All of them are BL. Some are just... queerer feeling than others. And the characters in those shows (Step by Step and The New Employee) read as more "actually gay."

This has nothing to do with the actors, chemsitry, or how much we may personally like the show (Our Dating Sim is one of my absolute favorite BLs). It has to do with how closely those CHARACTERS intersect with the reality of queerness as we inhabit it today. It will be lots of little touches given to the drama by director and script:

language use,

surrounding friendships (and friendship style),

mannerisms and physicality (specially body language around straights vs other queer characters),

makeup & wardrobe,

facial expressions,

surrounding queer-coded behaviors by side characters,

layers of story nuance that indicate a complicated queer-driven back story.

Markers of specifically a queer identity are given to the leads.

These kinds of BLs are satisfying the "about queers" category. ("By queers" can be difficult to extract because IRL outting is involved. "For queers" is the rarest kind of BL, because making something specifically for us often alienates the majority of the rest of viewership/market. I could be argued that SCOY did this.)

I'm sure I've missed things, but I hope that kinda makes sense?

By/For/About discourse from @wen-kexing-apologist here:

Parts 1

Part 2

Part 3

I'm indebted to them for the links!

More Queer Stuff from Yours Truly

BL Linguistics & Queer Identity - I Am Gay versus I Like Men 

Will BL Get More Honestly Queer? 

Queer lens (from the director) and chemistry (from the actors) in BL (A Tale of Thousand Stars)

Touch & Daisy in Secret Crush On You - Queer Coded Language and 3rd Gender Identity

BL in Taiwan & Gay Marriage

Debating Queerbaiting in BL ( + Devil Judge... is it queerbaiting?) 

BL Actors and the Assumption of Queerness - outing actors, coming out, being out, more:  Is that BL actor actually queer?

So is it really fetishization? straight women loving bl 

Some BL fans are sasaengs, and it’s a problem in this fandom 

BLs That Highlight How Society Treats Queers

10 BLs That Are Honest to a Queer Experience 

(source)

[mintish0]

P3 is up ☝️

[nabi-unveiled]

Sepia Phu,

Beyond the obvious "stranger in my bed" issue, I get why you were so bothered when your P'Cir was replaced.

Because YOUR P'Cir?

He's the one with the cojones to answer the phone.

He's the one that doesn't shy away from the truth.

He's the one that sits like a KING on his throne.

And he is apparently a delicious tease.

It's no wonder you were put off by the milquetoast version.

Now is Dark Cir the BEST Cir in all of the worlds?

I don't know, because that's A LOT of clocks on those walls.

I'd be happy to explore further.

[pinktwinkiezoppo]

"I'll find you in every universe" But it's whatever the fuck characters voiced by Johnny Yong Bosch and Yuri Lowenthal have going on

[babybison]

🐈‍🥰💌

[boysslove]

คุณเชื่อเรื่องโลกคู่ขนานไหม? | The Boy Next World Series คนละกาลเวลา

[susanoois]

Ship is so good that it has chemistry in different universe.

[pharawee]

"Dol, I know the answer now. I don't like you just because you're my soulmate. I like you for who you really are."

—EVERY YOU, EVERY ME · ทุกๆ เธอที่รัก · Universe 01/08

[usertoxicyaoi]

"You know I'm not a kind person, and I don't listen to others. How do I make you mine, and mine alone?"

TAIKAN YOHOU (2023). EPISODE EIGHT.

[heretherebedork]

The ultimate special episode would be a TanFang and KlaoWa double wedding special where both couples are using the same wedding planner and the poor planner keeps getting confused about who's who and it ends with Tan and Klao having the addresses to the opposite wedding and their friends having to sort it all out with madcap shenanigans.

[kawasiki-jo]

On a Winner's high right now so you get ice hockey bois Kenta and Kim ✨😌

Did cheat with the background, I'm not that committed😅 Yes, yes, I know. 'Drop the fic link'. Here you go. FIC

[mangaworld]

[nabi-unveiled]

It's no wonder that P'Cir is OBSESSED with Phu in this universe.

He's a cutie.

He's sexy.

He's a badass.

And he has the best sweater and cardigan collection I've ever seen.

P'Cir, your stalking tendencies are understandable. Come back to your man soon. He misses you. He needs you. He'll forgive you too.

[secriden]

So I was pondering just why I like Style so much and why his specific "failings" and imperfections are so compelling to me - and I think it's because all the other main characters are flawed in ways that are obvious but not very relatable.

Fadel and Bison are murders. Regardless of their motivations and how much they buy into Mama Lilly's propaganda, they still have taken lives and do so with little remorse. Kant is actively lying to, manipulating and taking advantage of Bison and Style (his supposed best friend) for his own ends with seemingly very little compunction. Yes, he's got his reasons; but still.

And then you have Style. His major flaw is that he is thoughtless and selfish and he doesn't seem to understand how to leash in his impulsive desires. This means he constantly ignores or crosses Fadel's boundaries to the point that, by the end of episode 3, is genuinely hurtful. All the same, compared to the things Fadel, Bison, and Kant have done and are still doing (reminder: ep 3 opened with another murder/assassination), this is relatively tame.

But that's precisely why I think people are being so harsh to him vs the other characters. Many of us have felt like the victim of someone like this because it's so common and so we relate to Fadel's frustration and then hurt and anger, and that makes Style actions feel painful in a way that’s personal. Few of us have been victims of the level of violence or manipulation that Fadel and Bison and Kant are dishing out.

Yet that's precisely why I like Style - he's imperfect in ways that add realistic complexity to his character. Why would we expect a character who is bold, brash, and impulsive to also be thoughtful and considerate?? He acts before he can think about things: that's the whole point of his character. He juxtaposes Fadel perfectly because Fadel "plans everything down from years, months, weeks to days" and Style hasn't acted with more than 8 seconds of forethought in his life. It’s part of what makes him perfect for Kant's plan in the first place.

But then, but THEN once Style begins interacting with Fadel, we start to get moments when Style seems to still and become intensely focused - most notably:

Right after the confrontation in the locker rooms (sadly I don't think anyone's gif'ed this yet, so screenshots it is!)...

…after his conversation with Bison about Fadel…

…and when he watches Fadel beat 3 guys up with ease.

We are watching Style find reasons to grow. We are seeing moments when he’s catching himself, slowing down, thinking, wondering. And while it initially starts with curiosity, he so quickly falls into fascination and obsession, and by the end of episode 3 it’s clear he wants more. It's not just about understanding Fadel anymore, Style wants to have him for himself. And if he's going to be something meaningful to Fadel he’s going to have to mature.

This is why I find Style so interesting and so fun to watch. He’s loud, in your face, and obnoxious so the layers aren’t as obvious. We think there’s nothing more there, but his complexity is deceptively hidden while they’re ironically much clearer in the quiet characters like Fadel and Kant.

And I don't think it's unreasonable to expect this growth. Style is written TO HAVE ROOM TO GROW. And, yes, I do think Style is going to rise gloriously to the challenge. We already have hints that this is precisely where the narrative means to take him:

(Fuck, look at how soft and earnest Style's expression is in the left screenshot. ;A;)

He’s by no means perfect but that gives him space to have a hell of a character arc and I, for one, can’t wait for it. 🙌

[incandescentflower]

I think what I appreciate the most about the dynamic in the Boy Next World is that Cir not only understands this is weird for Phu but also that it could even be scary. He's still pushy about it in some ways, but he seemed to click in fairly quickly how unnerving this could be for Phu and has asked him a few times if he is scared or needs him to do something else, despite clearly being so desperate to be close to him.

I think it's heavily implied by the way Cir reacted when he woke up that something happened to Phu in Cir's universe. Imagine someone you thought was dead was now alive and you were just gonna like hang out and not see them. I think he's doing pretty well teetering on the line and Phu's reaction to him confirms that.