#Bi-generation

[frankencanon]

I like to think that the reason bi-generation was so rare and mythical and unheard of and why it happened now is because it's an extreme self defense mechanism of the Time Lords — even more extreme than regular regeneration.

Simply put: the Doctor was too stressed. All of that stress built up over time more and more and more, until...

Until, much like with Donna and Rose in The Meep, the Doctor split themself into two so that they could share the burden.

[my-coven-is-claudia]

after sleeping on the latest anniversary special i think i’m at peace with the whole bi-generation thing because it does something i don’t think it would’ve been able to do if it was executed in any other way. it allows the show to move the fuck on.

nuwho began with this mysterious sense that something bad happened. that this man, this alien, is filled with guilt and pain from something terrible. that theme of a horrible anguish being thinly veiled under a witty, dorky shield has been consistent throughout every incarnation of the doctor since. it’s a brilliant piece of characterisation but the doctor always being weighed down by this insurmountable grief i think was always going to hold the show back eventually. tragedy is inherent to doctor who but when does it become hard to believe that the main character is somehow able to continue on after everything they’ve gone through. what effect would this have on the audience, especially long-term fans? letting go of past companions and doctors is something that doctor who fans are notoriously bad at and i just wonder if it would become too much for the show to handle at some point. but now it won’t anymore.

bi-generation allows the doctor to heal from everything they’ve gone through whilst still being able to barrel into the next adventure. there’s a million theories on where 14 will end up but i think what matters the most is that the doctor is finally happy. not in a temporary, tenuous state of thrill that will only last until the start of the next episode, but truly happy. unlike in previous versions of this story where the doctor gets an impossible happy ending which we never get to see onscreen (e.g. tentoo settling down with rose) we are actually going to witness 15 be joyful and alive, no longer held down by what’s come before. a fresh start almost. not to say that the time war or the flux were so horrific that the doctor never could’ve gotten over them but i don’t think the doctor healing would’ve been believable without him literally splitting in two, allowing him time to breathe and slow down as 14 whilst untethering him from the past and allowing him to fully spread his wings as 15. it’s not a perfect conclusion to this era (and discussions on whether bi-generation undermined ncuti’s entrance and role as THE doctor are completely valid) but i’m ultimately glad it happened

[imaginita-est-omnibus]

So about the bi-generation, now that I've seen The Interstellar Song Contest

Spoilers Follow

When the bi-generation happened, I was kinda upset. I mean, hell bloody yeah the return of the Rani, and played by an Indian actress to boot! But the method of regeneration itself bothered me, because the main reason I was okay with the Doctor bi-generating was because it was weird one-off. He had recently messed with how the universe itself worked, and was in the middle of a face-off with a reality-warping deity, while the Rani... had her double brain stem frozen? Why would that proc a bi-generation?

HOWEVER, the more I've sat and thought about it, the more I'm okay with it and even excited to see what RTD will do with it.

The reason why starts with this: for any viewer who started with D+ Who and hasn't gone back and watched Old Who and Nu Who, bi-generation is the only kind of regeneration they know about, which is kinda hilarious -- do they think every other past regeneration of the Doctor is just hanging out somewhere in space and time? But that got me thinking -- what if this is just how Time Lords regenerate from now on? I don't think that's the case, and really hope it isn't, but then why have all the Time Lord regenerations we've seen since Wild Blue Yonder been bi-generations? Maybe, it's because nearly all Gallifreyan sentient life has actually been wiped out. Last time, they were stuck in a time bubble, not actually gone, but this time, they are all actually dead, so maybe this is a biological thing that procs to aid in the repopulation of Gallifreyans in a time of crisis? I know there's some stuff in the extended lore about test tube babies or something like that, but given that the canonicity of everything outside the show (and even inside it) is very wibbly, I'm going to stick with just what is shown in the shows.

And if we don't know the cause of bi-generation, what about the effect? Ever since the 14/15 Doctor bi-generation, people have been wondering about some minutiae of the mechanics. One has already been clarified in the episode -- the new Time Lord/Lady is the real one, and the pre-existing one is kinda just hanging around, as established with the 14th Doctor taking a back seat for the 15th, and clarified with Mrs. Flood immediately taking a subservient role to the Rani. But the other big one is what happens to the pre-existing body? What happens to them when they die? Does the new one have all the memories of the pre-existing one? Hopefully, with Mrs. Flood, we'll be able to see, and confirm what will happen to 14 without having to kill David Tennant again.

And finally, the Rani bi-generating resolves one thing that always personally bugged me about the Doctor bi-generating, which is that I don't like it when the Doctor is inherently special among Time Lords. It's why I hate the Timeless Child so much. But now that we've seen another Time Lady bi-generate, that means it's not a Doctor-exclusive thing, which is a huge relief to me.

[wopfedra]

Bigeneration and the Timeless Child Hot-Take

This might be a few years, seasons and faces late, BUT hear me out:

After a friend send me 12h long YouTube video about Doctor Who I got back into a fandom I haven't interacted with in at least 3-4 years and I caught up on all the lore and stuff. And. What about this:

What if the Timeless Child Bigenerated? The Timeless Child was nothing but whispers on Gallifrey, and Bigeneration only a myth, so why not throw it together? And the result?

The Doctor and the Master.

That would totally explain their ... Thing. Their "Only you can kill me/only I can save you", their "We die together or not at all, don't you dare", their "Pay attention to me/I AM looking at you", their "together". Calling it a simple relationship would just not capture all of their theirness at this point. Maybe the Master just focussed so hard on the Doctor when investigating the Timless Child that he did not at all look for himself.

Does that make sense? Those are LITERAL shower thoughts, I am just now typing them out before forgetting about them. Opinions?

[variousqueerthings]

i think it's very funny that in the past there's always been a bit of an antagonism between past and present doctors, but fourteen and fifteen took one look at each other and went "I love you I want the best for you I want you to be cared for I want to hug you and heal all your traumas I think you're incredibly attractive I would kiss you right now but the humans might think that's weirder than the asexual reproduction they just witnessed"

[ahintofpanic13]

Something that I kept bumping up against watching the newest eps and trying to interpret the Doctor.

Is Fifteen still fresh off Thirteen’s experiences, or has Fourteen’s life inserted itself between between them? I’m trying to establish how character growth/progression works once you take bi-generation into consideration. Gahhhh my head hurts.

In NuWho, each iteration of the Doctor has clearly been influenced by the who they were in the regeneration before (normally this results in them over correcting and causes a whole different set of problems but they do try, bless ‘em!)

Basically, is Fifteen the Doctor who is implementing the life lessons learnt by Thirteen, or is that what Fourteen is doing on earth with Donna and it’s all a distant memory for Fifteen now????

[denimbex1986]

'It's a moment Doctor Who fans have been talking about since it happened – the epic bi-generation, which saw Ncuti Gatwa and David Tennant's Doctors exist alongside one another.

In the final 60th anniversary special, The Giggle, viewers saw the Doctor split into two, with both incarnations of the Time Lord appearing side-by-side, and while the moment was truly iconic, there was a bit more to it in the original script.

Featured in this month's edition of Doctor Who Magazine is an excerpt from the script that didn't make the final cut, between the Doctor (David Tennant), Donna (Catherine Tate) and Mel (Bonnie Langford) – and it includes a notable mention of the Rani.

The Rani, who was first introduced in 1985's The Mark of the Rani, was portrayed on screen by Kate O'Mara and later voiced by Siobhan Redmond for Big Finish audio dramas.

She is a nemesis of the Doctor and is a renegade Time Lord, who experiments on other species, including humans.

In the scene, with the Fourteenth Doctor's hands glowing, Donna asks Mel: "Have you seen this before?"

Mel responds: "No, I missed it, I was unconscious," going on to clarify to an inquisitive Donna: "Well, the TARDIS was attacked, by the Rani, she was this evil Time Lady, although not evil, more like amoral, and she dragged the TARDIS down to this planet called Lakertya-."

The Doctor interrupts and the focus is back on him again.

Even though the moment didn't make the finished episode, this script detail is bound to fuel fan speculation that the Rani could return in future episodes.

There are currently lots of theories about the identity of Ruby Sunday's birth mother, while Anita Dobson's mysterious Mrs Flood is also keeping secrets.

Plus, eagle-eyed viewers have spotted actress Susan Twist in two recent episodes and suspect there could be more to come involving her.

And that's before we get into the unidentified figure who picked up the gold tooth that trapped the Master in The Giggle, or the Meep's boss, or even The One Who Waits.

Could the Rani be involved along the way? We'll just have to wait and see.'

[doctorkinktraveller]

Russell T Davies says that Doctor Who has become bigger and bolder to "keep up with the times".

"When we first started in 2005, we were the only show, so it was easy. Now it's a busy market, so we have to keep up."

With the series having inspired so many other dramas, "we have to go big to keep it interesting. I've had the bi-generation idea for ages, and it was the perfect time because nobody expected it. We needed to remind people that there are no fixed rules."

Davies firmly believes that "once you say something is impossible, we do it. Bi-generation can't happen? We did it. David Tennant can't come back? He did. Nothing is forbidden. That's what this show is."

[ordemparcial]

thinking about the curator and bi-generation

the thing is the curator is supposed to be a wiser form of the doctor, probably very older regenerations. what if the bi-generation is what gives origin to the curator?

it just makes sense to me because fourteenth retires from getting involved, just what we expected the curator to be eventually.

and if we are going that way, this gives so much to think about our version of the doctor, because they can now have a different path to follow, not necessarily wiser, but a more dark or gray way (im talking valleyard but this is not the point).

[rainbowpopeworld]

[dumbfandomaccount]

I just watched The Giggle, the last of the Doctor Who 60th anniversary specials.

I wish they had spent more time on the concept of humanity losing the ability to change their minds.

Bi-generation seems… unnecessary? Like, from what I can tell, the point seems to be so that 14 can have an extended sabbatical so that 15 can be less weighed down by all of his emotional baggage. So, if 15 has all of 14’s memories from the time he’s going to spend with the Nobles, what happens to 14 when he’s done? Does he just disappear from wherever he is and appear inside himself as 15 at the moment of the bi-generation? Also, what happens to the extra TARDIS at that point? It all seems unnecessary. Skip the bi-generation business (maybe having 15 show up from the Doctor’s personal future if you want the Doctor to be the one to tell himself to go on hiatus) and just have a scene at either the end of the episode or the beginning of the Christmas special where 14 is really old in the 30th century or so, and have his body die of old age so he can regenerate into 15.

Also the game of catch made for an anticlimactic climax. The Toymaker seems like the kind of villain who is tailor-made to be defeated by outsmarting, but clearly RTD couldn’t think of a clever way for the Doctor to win a game, so instead he opted for a montage of three people throwing and catching a ball.

[my-coven-is-claudia]

another thing i love about the bi-generation thing is just how fucking buck wild sci-fi it is. how 14 and 15 both exist at once but are at two entirely different points in the doctor’s development. 14 is at the very beginning of the doctor’s journey towards self-love whilst 15 is at the other end of that journey, joyful and full of life. he’s so obviously not chained down by his past and so much more mature it’s almost startling. i know we were all caught off guard by 14’s emotional vulnerability but 15 is just name dropping companions left and right completely unprompted, something the doctor NEVER does. also the way that they interact with each is just a walking visualisation of self love. it’s hard to get my head around but just so beautiful. and when they look at one another they’re both staring into a mirror, a manifestation of the different diverging paths for the doctor (that might unite again if you believe 14 will eventually regenerate into 15). the way they’re both fundamentally the doctor but totally different all the same. how 14 closes out the doctor’s story and 15 starts it anew

[ktrwho]

Tecteun survived (Bi-generation theory)

I haven't seen this theory anyway else but I think it makes some sense:

So Tecteun supposedly is killed by Swarm at the end of "Survivers of the Flux" after her confrontation with The Doctor I believe that before this Tecteun had already Bi-generated and this Bi-generated incarnation is already in "universe 2"

Okay so we still don't quite know how Bi-generation fully works in "the giggle" it seems 15 is in 14's future and has been sent back however in the episode "the devil's chord" 15 says his soul was torn in half which implies an actual split? Only the future theory works for this so I'm gonna go by that for this theory.

Firstly how much does Tecteun know about Bi-generation? We know it's a Time Lord myth but has anyone else experienced it we know it can't happen too often to Time Lords as it wouldn't have been a myth if it did but has Tecteun Bi-generated before during the dark times maybe? So she could know how to trigger one or she hadn't figured it out for a long time but did during flux? I guess it is possible it could have just happened without planning but I feel like she used the Flux and released Swarm to trigger her Bi-generation

We know she released Swarm to damage time by releasing the Mouri she even says this was intended, so I think she figured out with both the damage from the Flux and Swarm letting time run wild she can trigger her own Bi-generation so this most likely happens during episode 3 of Flux "once, upon time" when Swarm gets rid of the Mouri making time go wild so I think while the Doctor was in the time storm Tecteun Bi-generated

Tecteun 1 = "Awsok" Tecteun

Tecteun 2 = Future Tecteun (in universe 2)

So Tecteun 1 triggers her Bi-generation into Tecteun 2, Tecteun 2 already knows the fate of Tecteun 1 at the hands of Swarm, Tecteun 2 explains as much as they can to Tecteun 1 (just like 15 did to 14) maybe getting Tecteun 1 to have the conversation with the Doctor at the end of the "once, upon time" episode and bringing her to Division HQ in "Survivors of the Flux" or Tecteun 1 could just do this without information from Tecteun 2, Tecteun 2 goes into universe 2 while Tecteun 1 talks to The Doctor at the end of "once, upon time" about how this universe is over and she released Swarm etc

Then the events of "Survivors of the Flux" happen with the Doctor and Tecteun 1 having their confrontation and then Swarm touches Tecteun and she disappears now this is a big theory of what most people think will happen to 14 is that when he is on the verge of death he will fade and appear back at UNIT as 15 so this is what I believe happens to Tecteun

Tecteun 1 disappears and goes back to the point of the Bi-generation becomes Tecteun 2 and leaves for universe 2.

[aka-patsy]

Bi-generation? you mean THE device that's gonna be employed in all of the Regenerations as siblings fics?

[platypusbunnyfromthetardis]

The Master is a golden tooth.

The Doctor is in his boxers.

The TARDIS is wheelchair accessible.

Grampa's shooting moles.

The moles have a protection field.

Love and peace on planet Earth.

[variousqueerthings]

my cute post about fourteen with the noble family is flying off the shelves, but not enough people interested in the queerness contained within the deeply intimate erotic implications of fourteen/fifteen being consciously inside one another? no fans of science fiction premises queering the visceral physical nature of knowing someone/oneself deeper than anyone else? the queerness of asexual reproduction depicting an intense connection with the self that is nigh-indescribable but is canonically beautiful and loving? the queerness inherent in fourteen's and fifteen's relationship with one another retroactively stretching back to encompass every single iteration of the doctor? the queer ideas encapsulated through depicting one being with oneself like that? the queerness that is pushing the limits of thinking up language about how we relate to our own/others bodies in space/time that is possible in science fiction? nobody think bi-regeneration is very sexy queer-coded?