#Dream SMP meta

[thanotaphobia]

idk if i’m interpreting the ending as something different than it is but-

tommy’s apology was to stall. one last desperate attempt to distract dream as the nuke alarms went off, one last apology not to dream, but to everyone else.

“i’m sorry” as they all look up towards the sky and see hell rained down upon them. “i’m sorry” not for everything he’s done, but for what he’s about to do. “i’m sorry” not because he felt for dream, but because he was conditioned to apologize whenever he made a bid for agency. firing a nuke and destroying everything? a last attempt at control.

and then it’s over. and then there’s nothing left, except there is. 

a new world, one where tommy doesn’t remember and tubbo doesn’t remember and- and dream does remember. a world where he finds tommy fucking innit chopping down a tree in a landscape that is both familiar and not, where tommy looks at him without a flash of that familiar fearful defiance that dream is used to. and suddenly, he sees an opportunity. a fresh start.

a clean slate.

dream’s “wanna be friends?” isn’t genuine. 

it’s menacing. 

and maybe this isn’t even the first time he’s gotten to start over. maybe it’s not even close. if he tries again, maybe this time, things will be different.

(he’s just gotta figure out a way to make up for the absence of wilbur soot. surely that won’t be too much of an issue. surely.)

[ranababamboo]

been thinking abt sandduo. specifically within the context of phil’s perspective of wilbur’s death. and his resulting actions because of it.

like. phil hasn’t seen his son in a while. and suddenly his letters stop. so he hauls ass to this new place he’s never been and is met with his son being at the rock bottom of the mental spiral.

he watches his son destroy the thing he’d been talking about so passionately for months. and he saves him from going down with it. and what does his son do after his life is saved? beg to be killed.

[[ everyone talks about “phil didn’t know he was on his last life” but personally. i think it’s worse if phil didn’t know he ever had more than one. bc both he n techno only ever had one ]]

and then. they rebuild. his son’s citizens heal the thing he both gave his life for and also destroyed. then they imprison him. they execute techno. they prove the exact thing that he had feared - that this was indeed a place of corruption.

so he decides to finish his son’s work and destroy the thing that ruined him. and he doesn’t care if he’s labeled a villain for it because they already made up their minds on him. and the least he can do is make this right.

this isn’t even to mention everything w ghostbur, of how he couldn’t ever really see him as his son, how he always maintained emotional distance. how ghostbur was distraught at the destruction of his life’s work because he couldn’t remember how horrible it’d made him.

he tries to revive wil, too. he tries everything he can to bring his son back. now that he’d gotten rid of l’manberg, he didn’t have that to make him spiral again. he could get a new start without that weight on his shoulders. he could still save his son.

except he can’t. he doesn’t get his son back, not on his own. not until his life is used as a threat against the kid that was basically his brother. not until his son is, once again, a weapon of pain.

he saw his son walk away to start a new life, and then watched it turn into an instrument of torture.

and he still tries to help him, still tries to get him accustomed to life, still tries to refocus his efforts to less horrible things. to keep him in a place he can move on and be a person rather than a weapon in someone else’s fight.

but the record is carved, and he plays the tune once more.

[ellytraoflight]

Awesamponk came full circle in the egg finale. We’ve seen them jump from lovers to estranged, holding on, letting go, to enemies once again. Ponk’s attempt at retribution backfired on him but it didn’t, really, because Ponk still has Fran hidden away in some secret prison (like a baby piglin used as a bartering chip; like the consequences of Sam’s actions).

Ponk’s “killing Sam” mission started long ago, where he tried to conscript Foolish to help him murder Sam in somewhere around July 2021. It’s worth mentioning, though, that he has plenty of opportunities to murder Sam in the coming months that he never takes. He fantasizes of it like a dream he hopes will come to fruition—a recent ex insincerely wishing death upon their past lover. He’s (understandably) very betrayed by and angry at Sam, but he doesn’t act on any murder plans. His death is not what Ponk really wants at this point in time. 

Even after Sam took Ponk’s arm, Ponk was (mostly) amicable towards Sam face-to-face for a long time. He yells a lot, and he makes petty jabs (“I know you’re good at burning [bridges]” comes to mind), but follows it up with, "Just so you know, you can come to me after everything. I will still support you, Sam, okay? You'll still have a place to stay. Because all the wrong that you have done is going to catch up behind you." Sam immediately says, “I don’t think I’ve done anything wrong.” At this point in time (approximately July 2021), Ponk seems to be bitter, but tells Sam that he’s still willing to wait for him. Sam, meanwhile, obstinately refuses any sort of reproach. This is essentially how their relationship goes for the next year or so, even while Ponk threatens bloody murder behind his back.

Ponk acts in a similar way towards Sam right after Dream escapes prison, only this time the amount of time he’s waited has taken its toll. "The next time you ask for my help, I don't think I'll be there for you. I think I'll just stand and watch. I honestly don't care anymore. [...] You're not even worth the durability on my sword.” Sam offers his own, and Ponk refuses even that. “I don't want you to die, you know why? [...] I have a feeling that someone great, someone who used to be is still in there, and he’s fighting to come out. And one day, that person will make it out, and you will see the shit that you've done to other people in this world, alright? It'll be much worth than death, Sam." Here, I believe Ponk states what he really wants: he can’t wait for Sam anymore, but he doesn’t want Sam to die. He knows that Sam is going to suffer for his actions one way or another, but he doesn’t want to be the one to do it. He’s done with Sam. 

The next time he talks about wanting to murder Sam comes chronologically after his lore stream where he decides to live in a cave. He’s tired, his clothes are tattered, and he asks both Aimsey and Eryn for their help in killing Sam. In a couple of months, Ponk jumps the train from “I don’t want Sam dead” to “I’m going to kill Sam myself.” In between his last interaction with Sam and here, Ponk’s been beaten down by life and has been alone for months. The only thing Ponk knows how to do by this point is blame Sam: in his mind, all his problems started with Sam and his arm. 

This isn’t even considering all the times both Ponk and Sam separately have flirted with Foolish to hurt the other. Or, the times Sam’s flirted with Ponk while truly believing he hasn’t done anything wrong.

By the point of the egg finale, Ponk has realized that Sam is never going to change. Ponk has been suffering, and he blames it all on Sam, and Sam has received no retribution. So, Ponk finally takes it upon himself to hurt Sam the way that Sam hurt Ponk all that time ago, even though he claimed he never would. And it still doesn’t work! Because Sam always had a contingency plan, and he blows up Ponk and he escapes. He still hasn’t learned his lesson—and neither has Ponk. He can never truly let go. 

It’s interesting to think about awesamponk in the context of the egg finale, which primarily covers the story of Skeppy and Badboyhalo. Where Skeppy and Bad have doomed themselves and the world time and time again in order to save the other, Sam and Ponk will never be able to overcome their strife, despite how much they still clearly care for one another. Skephalo say “I care for you so much that everything else can burn,” where awesamponk say “I care for you so much that I’ll flay you myself.” Both exhibit unhealthy codependencies that end up hurting themselves, the other party, and the rest of the server.

I have to wonder where awesamponk is going to go from here. Neither of them are healing, and they are both getting worse, and that’s pretty par for the course for a dream smp relationship, actually.

[detectiveaku]

Hii I'd actually love it if you meta-d about Wilbur's presidency as a part of fix-it endings!!

okay okay so. i think that more november 16th fix-its (as in happy ending not making it better necessarily) should have tubbo relinquish presidency to wilbur which is not a common take even in cwilbur circles so i want to talk about it!

first i want to ask you what makes wilbur a tragic character? the moment of peripetia, or the moment of reversal in the direction of his character. what actually causes his downfall? this is a whole post on its own but i think everyone with sense will agree that this moment is the "are we the bad guys" speech. his fatal flaw is not grandiosity, it's not arrogance or pride, it is self-doubt. this is a reoccurring theme, it is what causes him to build the wall, it is what causes him to hold an election, it is what causes him to believe that he is a villain, and it is what makes him destroy his country.

a major major point of s1 cwilbur is that power is not evil. power is revolution, agency, freedom, and without power you have none of these things. another point is that power hurts, freedom has a cost, revolution kills, and agency leaves the door open for you to do things you will later regret. and the self-doubt comes from this pain, from wilbur questioning if the good in people is real, and if the pain of power is worth bearing so that the good can shine through.

i think you can see where i'm going with this. a redemption arc is, in essence, a halted tragedy. and if you're going to halt a tragedy, you have to remove the trait that is causing it, in wilbur's case the self-doubt. he has to take up power without worrying what the consequences may be.

at his worst, wilbur is powerless, though dissatisfied and loathing in his servitude. he intimidates tommy into being on his side. he brags about how no one is on his side, and everyone would betray him given a chance. he begs his enemy dream for weapons, referring to himself as a peasant under his lordship. he demands his father kill him when the explosions didn't do it for him.

at his best, wilbur is powerful, and comfortable in his power. he challenges dream with superior arguments and dares him to stoop to violence to stop him. he offers tommy vice presidency when he was the only person to question his authority. he rebuilds a home for him and tommy after being exiled. he throws himself in front of technoblade, his best soldier, without any armor, to demand niki's safety.

in the aftermath of november 16th, when wilbur is at his weakest and desperate to die, if he for whatever reason doesn't die, he will have to get up. to gain some power back. it's in his nature to rebuild. and after a month or so of gaining back trust, of sewing the bonds that kept l'manburg strong, i think it is fitting for tubbo, who didn't want the spot and doesn't know how to handle exile or the anarchists or dream, to offer to step down if wilbur will step up. and wilbur will hesitate, he'll think back to pogtopia and his tirades and lmanburg and the sleepless nights. and the memories will sting a bit, until he looks into tubbo's eyes and sees hope. sees that he inspired hope. and without question he will accept.

[cobble-cas]

Thoughts on the Finale

Honestly as someone who watched Tubbo’s POV of the finale first it was sad and tragic, but not too unfairly so. C!Jack appearing and their interactions together were fire. Tubbo having to talk himself into flicking the lever? Banger. The nuke effects? Cool as fuck. cc!Tubbo went so fucking hard that stream as he has in the others, pouring his heart into every moment. When I had watched this stream I was sad but largely alright with the ending. Would I have loved L’Moonberg clingyduo happy ending more? Of course. But this was fine.

Then I watched Tommy’s perspective. I thought he was just talking whatever to keep c!Dream and c!Punz occupied. But then the death happened. And the execution of the ‘c!Tommy gains insight into c!Dream’s motivations’ was just too sloppy, too close to an abuse victim forgiving their abuser. Just a smidge more care to ensure c!Tommy understanding c!Dream’s motivations but not condoning his methods would have been 100 times better. Just one sentence. And then the section in the ‘new world’. Just.. why.

Anyway I have been through this before, more than once. I know how to deal. How to take the best parts and cherish them. How to read fanfictions that explore unexplored parts and fix broken elements. Where to look for joy and heartache and laughter.

If you are in this boat, I believe you can do it as well. This community is strong, creative, and passionate. Meta writers, artists, fanfiction creators, all of you who create the content that brings people in. If you wish to continue I’ll be honoured to see what you make <3

[lovelyrose20]

I don’t often make these kind of analyzation posts often and I might be wrong but something about Dream considering changing only for the nukes to drop hit me. I don’t know if I’m doing this right but just the fact that his death along with everyone else to due to his action, due to everything that happened. He never had the chance to change because he already made that decision a long time ago and now in some horrible way that involves everyone else suffering he’s suffered the consequence of it. I know that the finale is very flawed but it’s honestly good in that kind of angle. The fact that Tommy will not agree with him and still thinking that he’s a piece of shit understood why he did this and figure out his entire motive that is not underneath layers of it’s fun or greater good. He was just scared child who is upset that the world is complicated and that everything that he knew was changing and rather than change in small ways alongside it or try to accept change. He tried to force change in big ways, mess with innocent people’s lives and justify saying that soon they will live forever and it will be a better place. And the moment that he heard Tommy finally analyzing and slowly deconstructing his motives. The moment that dream seem to have begin to understand and actively let out his emotions. It was all gone. He have multiple chances and multiple warning signs yet he didn’t change. And now it’s too late because the server got nuked. It’s a symphony of a tragedy yet one that happens because of his actions and fatal flaws. Dream finally realize that he doesn’t have to do what are he did. And he paid the price for not realizing it before.

[arsonistfriday]

There are already fans theorising that this was staged, and a part of me... kinda agrees? However not in the way that they're guessing. Because they claim that Drunz aren't actually going to kill everyone, and that it was just bait to scare those two, however I think it's something along those lines. He brings up how the End is physically decaying with all the revival, and how the fuck does he know the End exists and what it looks like unless he's been there himself?

And of course, this makes sense. Their dimension is full of life, too much life, and the universe wants a balance, like Dream himself says- life and death are extremely fragile, and this is probably why DreamXD made the death book- to balance what Drunz had done, since it's clear that DreamXD is the defender of the End, so having it decay isn't exactly in his plans. So I do genuinely believe that Dream is going to attempt to balance the whole life-death scale, and that's where the "server reset" comes into play.

However, we don't know exactly how he's going to balance it again, considering he's most likely lying about killing everyone- that just wouldn't be possible because people have multiple lives, so he'd have to eliminate them, at the very max, thrice over- but some people might even have more lives, like Foolish! So I just don't think it's possible, and Dream's smart, so he'd know this. However, he needs to balance it somehow.

So I'm curious and excited to see how exactly this will go.

[conarcoin]

the concept of "lore" ruined discussion of mcrp because like. people use it to mean some kind of weird hybrid of plotline and worldbuilding but ONLY if the server is drama-focused otherwise it doesn't count i guess.

so you get people saying like. hermitcraft isn't a lore server. smplive isn't a lore server. sdmp isn't a lore server. and it's like yeah this is true because "lore server" is a meaningless slop category you guys made up. they very much have plotlines and worldbuilding though 💀

[simplepotatofarmer]

one of the genuinely most important things about c!techno is his relationship to violence.

because when he says 'violence is the only universal language', he means that violence is what people understand. that he's been shown over and over that violence is what people listen to. he's experienced it firsthand. he doesn't seem to revel in it, it's more like he's resigned to it as a fact.

and on doomsday, it's violence that gets him the 'win'. he succeeds! his goal of destroying the government and making certain there will never be another is complete.

but instead of taking this as proof that violence is the only way, techno still wants to change. he admits to being a bad example and wanting to do better going forward. it's such a great moment showing that techno's desire to change came from himself, not because he was unsuccessful in his goals.

[tobi-smp]

Context: [Link]

the simplest way of wording tubbo and tommy's conflict during the the trials leading into exile, and what particularly makes them so tragic, is that it's

“dream is dangerous so we have to bend the knee to try to stay safe” (<- impossible)

vs

“dream is dangerous so we shouldn't give a single inch if we want to stay strong enough to resist him” (<- impossible)

both of their perspectives make complete sense, and both of them have merits considering how dream had acted before, the problem is that neither of them could have known that dream was a mass murdering serial killer mad scientist abuser. Neither of their perspectives could have worked, not because they were Wrong but because they relied on dream not being an absolute monster.

[quacktities]

I feel like the appeal of C! Quackbur (to me at least) is just how versatile it is as a ship and the range it has.

You want a subtle rivals to lovers, mutual pinning and longing but one of them is repressing his own feelings because he hates himself too much to let someone get attached to him ship dynamic with a political backdrop? You want longing gazes, knowing looks and the unspoken truth that, maybe, just maybe this relationship and understanding between them goes deeper than either of them let on or want to admit? BOOM. Lmanburg election arc Quackbur!

You want all of that but with more tension, high stakes, mental illness, a very "forbidden romance" vibe with an enemies that have been in love with eachother for a long time but can now finally be on the same side and possibly act on their feelings dynamic (but theyre doomed by the narrative so it was never going to work out. Or maybe it will, who knows. Maybe this time they find solace in eachother. Maybe this time Quackity stops him before its too late. Maybe this time it doesnt end in flames. Who knows. Its up to you really, if you keep telling the story over and over again, maybe this time they get their happy ending here and it doesnt have to be a tragedy. Your choice really). Pogtopia era C! Quackbur!

You want fucked up grief and angst and reminiscing on the past and being haunted by what could have been? You want seeing the spectre of your dead friend (if he was truly your old enemy, why does he feel like a past lover to you) and wondering if maybe he remembers everything you both went through the same way you do and if maybe his heart aches when he sees you the same way yours aches when you see him but you know he isn't the same and you'll never see the old verison of him ever again... but hes here... as a ghost.. and that has to be worth something right. (Is it a miracle you can still see him or are you forever being tormented by what you can never have?). BOOM, Butcher arc C! Quackity and Ghostbur (or Aftermath C! Quackbur as I call them)

You want all of that, but hey. What if we brought back the guy. What if it didn't have to end in death? What if they could reunite and speak again after everything? Would they even get along? You want the culmination of years of pinning, grief, hurt, and mutual obsession? Do they truly love each other, or have they fallen in love with the idealised verisons of each other they have in their own heads? Maybe this time, they'll actually get their shit together and talk. There really isn't anything stopping them now, other than themselves and each other. Maybe C! Quackity finally finds someone who respects him, is dedicated to him, and can engage with him on the same intellectual level in C! Wilbur. Maybe C! Wilbur finally finds someone who makes him feel human and can challenge him and his more self-destructive behaviours while still loving him in C! Quackity. Maybe this time, they get to understand each other, and they get to heal. Maybe this time, it's not too late, and sure, they dont have the healthiest relationship, but they're working on it, and they're okay for once. Just this once. Maybe. Or maybe you don't want that. Maybe it is too late for them. Maybe they'll never have what they once had, and they're both left with bitter hatred and longing for the past that grows weaker by the day as the rose tinted filter starts to fade. Maybe they make each other worse. Maybe the closest they ever get to being close to each other is by hurting each other. Maybe the only times they hold hands are when they're catching each other's bloody fists. Maybe they're both too far gone now. Maybe they've hurt each other too much to ever be vulnerable with each other. Maybe it's just too late for them. Maybe it was never meant to be. You want a joker card ship dynamic that can either end in healing and a happy ending or in an even more fucked up tragedy? Or both! Why not. BOOM. Post revival C! Quackbur

[ranababamboo]

thinking about dsmp members and the different ways they're stubborn. they all are, in one way or another, because everyone is – it's part of the human condition.

dream is stubborn in that he refuses to be denied authority, to be defeated. if he becomes the villain, so be it, because he is still in charge.

wilbur is stubborn in that he refuses to lose control, to not be the one deciding the narrative. if he admits defeat, it'll be on his terms.

tommy is stubborn in that he refuses to give up, to abandon those he cares for. he won't leave them.

tubbo is stubborn in that he refuses to move on, to deal with change. he lives in memories of the past so he doesn't have to face reality.

quackity is stubborn in that he refuses to be forgotten, to be lost in history. he built a city so he could be remembered.

phil is stubborn in that he refuses to put things before the people, to let materials be more valuable than lives. he'd burn anything and everything he has for those he loves.

techno is stubborn in that he refuses to be used, to be manipulated. he retaliates when his trust is betrayed and allies turn against him.

eret is stubborn in that she refuses to repeat her mistakes, to let others do what she did. the museum is a safeguard against the rhyming scheme of history.

aimsey is stubborn in that they refuse to turn violent, to rely on fighting to solve their problems. peace is the path they walk, to the point it leads them away from the dsmp.

ranboo is stubborn in that they refuse to pick sides, to pit people against each other. even choosing wilbur's side was in an attempt to help people understand him.

sam is stubborn in that he refuses to break rules, to go against his personal code. his idea on how things should be are absolute and non-negotiable.

sapnap is stubborn in that he refuses to fail those close to him, to not be good enough for them. he failed his best friend and he won't let down those he has left.

karl is stubborn in that he refuses to burden others, to make his problems theirs. he will throw himself through the in-between time and again if it means he helps, even if he is the cost.

there's so much that can be said about a character in what they stand for and what ideals they commit to. when you look at who has similarities with whom, what overlap exists between everyone, there's a lot more to explore.

[stemms]

The wildest thing about c!Dream’s “…and you.” is that this freak of a man must’ve interpreted this borderline Fucked Up™ and possessive phrase as a tragic and sweet “You’ve hurt me, but I still think about you” moment in the what-could’ve-happened sense.

What makes it even worse is that this idea may’ve stemmed from the way c!Tommy was always willing to forgive everyone around him, no matter how badly they hurt him, starting with c!Wilbur, and ending with c!Dream. So, following this logic, c!Tommy’s kind nature inspired that unhealthy thought pattern, and indirectly heightened the man’s obsession with him.

c!Dream was always known for twisting every little positive thing in c!Tommy’s life into something horrific, after all…

And every time he succeeded, the blond’s distress could be compared to the tastiest meal he’d ever had.

He could never get enough of it, and only keep on craving more…

More, more, and more…

If it wasn’t for Doomsday, c!Tommy and c!Dream could’ve become friends after exile, despite it being one of the most stressful events in the teen’s life.

His heart was simply too big for this server, and the Admin wished to devour it.

But unfortunately for c!Dream, he overestimated and took c!Tommy’s kindness for granted, losing the access to it forever after pushing him too far.

Still, it was true that they both couldn’t stop thinking about each other, despite hurting each other; almost as if they were tied by fate, and meant to always stay together.

If c!Tommy truly hated c!Dream’s guts, why would he keep on remembering him and the fun time they had together?

Sometimes, these thoughts would cause the teen to cry for hours, making him too perplexed to understand whether he’d like to be far away from his friend captor, or enveloped in his soothing bruising hug.

After all, if it’s not proof that he belongs to c!Dream, then what is? :) :) :)

[zeta-in-de-walls]

Hey there, as you may or may not know, a couple years ago I started a little subreddit for DSMP fanfiction. https://www.reddit.com/r/DreamSMPfanfic/

I don't personally run it anymore, I stepped away away when my interest in the fandom fizzled.

Anyway, the mods are highly considering a rename to MCYTfanfic in order to be more general. (All mcyt fic recs are already allowed but it is predominantly DSMP. It's always been very SBI leaning particularly.)

As always if you have any interest in dsmp fanfiction, I highly encourage you to check it out. You can recommend your favourite stories, get recommendations or just discuss the fanfic community. Searching older recs is an awesome way to discover some hidden gems and it feels good to share your favourite stories.

[swordfright]

Since we're talking c!Quackity...one of the interactions that fascinates me is the conversation between him, c!Wilbur, and c!Tommy when crimeboys visit Las Nevadas, because it contains this snippet of conversation:

This snippet comes in the middle of a larger conversation wherein Wilbur, more or less freshly revived, is grilling both Tommy and Q for details about how to get into the prison to see Dream. After this, the conversation moves on to navigating the visitation system. This snippet is framed within the context of Wilbur wanting to visit Dream, Tommy trying to convince him not to, and Quackity...? Well, okay, what is Quackity trying to do here? What's his goal in this conversation? He readily supplies Wilbur with info about the visitation and security systems (while Tommy actively withholds and obfuscates this info), so does that mean Q is trying to normalize his own visits by encouraging other people to visit? That's possible, but what interests me more is the question of, like, what the hell is going on here in a broader sense.

The simplest view of this conversation is that it's an argument between two people who are diametrically opposed, and Quackity is the third party here, a guy who doesn't seem particularly invested in either outcome. Which begs the question, why does he bring his own visits up at all? Q is the one who cuts in and mentions that he's been visiting Dream, which at this point isn't a secret on the server but it's also not something Q seems interested in discussing at length. The torture visits are something to be flaunted, not talked about. My assumption, given what we know about Q as a character, is that he's leveraging his experience with navigating Pandora in order to impress Wilbur. Information is something that can be negotiated, brokered, sold - so he's letting Wilbur know he has something Wilbur wants.

This is classic Q behavior right up until the end, where he gets oddly touchy about the torture being brought up. This moment has always struck me as weird, especially considering the handful of other times Quackity doesn't care whether people know (the conversation he has with George comes to mind, as well as the path he asks Foolish to build.) So there are three possibilities here:

that Q is bothered by Tommy saying the quiet part out loud;

that Q has only just found out about Wilbur's gratitude to Dream in the last 5 minutes (literally) and doesn't want to give Wilbur a reason to oppose him right now;

there's something about Tommy specifically knowing about and acknowledging the torture that rubs Q the wrong way.

Personally, I don't see option #2 as viable, given that Wilbur and Quackity are already beefing over how close to Las Nevadas Wilbur can build stuff. That's part of the reason Wilbur is here in the first place: to execute some chernobyl-grade negging. It's not world-ending beef, but given the propensity for mid-tier beef to turn into world-ending beef on this server, it's not nothing. Point is, Quackity and Wilbur have already been at odds with each other for this entire episode. Is Quackity less likely to tolerate conflict involving Dream? Absolutely, but I don't think avoiding such a conflict is his primary reason for acting the way he does here.

My current theory is that it's a combination of #1 and #3 - Quackity seemingly enjoys implying that he's been torturing Dream, but rarely talks about it outright unless it's with Sam. I can't think of many examples of him discussing the torture openly with other characters. I think it's not a stretch to say he enjoys the power of suggestion, he likes making people wonder, he likes making people scared, but he's not really prepared for someone to bring it up so boldly and directly the way Tommy does here. As for why this bothers him, my best guess is that the torture is actually kind of...difficult to talk about with people who aren't directly involved (i.e. Sam and Dream.) It's an incredibly demanding habit that takes up much of Quackity's time and energy, not to mention it's insanely intimate. Like I just don't think it's a stretch to say that Q probably just straight-up doesn't know how to talk about it in a way that's upfront, rather than gloating or flaunting or vaguely implying. Another reason it's likely difficult is that, based on the interactions we've seen, Q probably isn't used to other people bringing it up at all. Tommy's remark catches him off-guard in a very literal way.

The "Don't say that, not even as a joke," really gets me though, because it's such a defensive thing to say, coming from a guy who up until now has been very clear about how little interest he has in defending the indefensible. Is this comment a sign of remorse on Quackity's part? Fuck no, but I do think it's an admission of something. Keep in mind that Quackity's mannerisms when speaking to Tommy are almost identical to the way he speaks to c!Slime. This is evident in a number of streams from the Las Nevadas era, but especially this one: Quackity's tone of voice, language, demeanor, all of it is calculated to evoke the same kind of mentor-mentee relationship he has with Slime. And it makes sense - at this junction in the story, Q views Tommy as someone who's young and impressionable and fucks up a lot, someone who could use Q's advice, someone who's easy to manipulate.

If I were to hedge a bet, I'd say the primary reason Quackity reacts to the torture comment with defensiveness in this scene is because Tommy's remark reminds him that he needs to stay in control of the narrative. I think this is why Q brings up his visits (not the torture, but the visits) earlier in the conversation: "Tommy, you know about this, right?" He's testing Tommy to see how much he knows, and is taken aback when Tommy is prepared to bring up the nasty stuff. Q can walk around with Dream's blood on his shirt all he likes, but once the story's out, it's out - Quackity will no longer have control over who knows and, more importantly, what they think. If anything, this moment is a fleeting but noticeable admission of Quackity's insecurities surrounding the torture in specific. If he's going to properly manage his alliances, he would do well to maintain control of info surrounding, uh, how he spends his time.

[moondragon618]

Hmmm thinking about early season 1 dsmp before canon lives were implemented and how much less serious everything was, with death being nothing more than a minor inconvenience at worst and in some cases being indistinguishable from affectionate roughhousing lmao. And also the way that even after canon deaths are implemented, death has actual weight and consequences, and everyone's behavior shifts accordingly to fit the more serious tone, Dream's attitude towards death remains exactly the same. If anything it even starts to shift in the opposite direction as time goes on, him seeing everything more and more as just a game where death and violence are simply just part of the bonding experience :)

It's just. Something about the contrast between how Tommy reacts with mild annoyance to being killed repeatedly by Dream during the disc war and the way he reacts with visceral panic and horror when Dream threatens to do exactly that again during their post prison break confrontation makes me absolutely insane. The stakes are now literal life or death (and for Tommy in particular, life or an eternity of literal torture) and Tommy reacts exactly as you would expect- because it's not a game for him anymore- meanwhile Dream is still exactly how he was in S1, just a guy playing a game and having a fun little friendly rivalry with his best friend and favorite plaything little brother :) :) :)

And definitely not clinging desperately to an idealized version of the past that he can never return to and perhaps never really existed while also desperately trying to maintain his power over a server that is slowly leaving him behind, all while doing everything in his power to drag Tommy down with him-

And like this isn't to say that he doesn't know what he's doing or is in any way justified bc he absolutely does know the weight of his actions and the pain and suffering he's causing, and he's having the time of his life doing it lmao :) If anything his actions now having that kind of impact on everyone (and especially on Tommy) just makes it all the more fun for him :) :) :)