#ESPECIALLY OF ITS JUST TO JUSTIFY SHIPPING

[thebestusernamepossible]

Fandom is so tiring sometimes. Like girl(gn) not everything you dislike has to be for some moral reason! And you trying to justify disliking/liking something harmless by basing it in morality is not good for your or anyones mental health. Please stop doing that. It gives reason for my intrusive thoughts to say I’m bad for disagreeing with you even if I know logically your point is fucking stupid. Like it’s FANDOM, it’s not that serious. Chill out. A person is not morally wrong for not having the same favorite book in a series as you.

[rafyki]

I really can't understand why, but there's so much useless discourse in the pjo fandom - about ships, about interpretation of characters, about headcanons, and all stuff like that. Like, are most people in this fandom unable to have fun?

I mean, I've been in the fandom for ten years now, and (maybe it was bc back in the day I was in the Italian fandom) but back then there wasn't this much discourse???

Please, just learn to have fun, that's literally what fandoms are made for

[jinxed-sinner]

Do. Do people realize relationship dynamics can change??

Usually I stay out of shipping discourse but people need to realize that relationship dynamics can change. I personally don't think Lucilith, as of now, is canonically toxic, but i DO think there are toxic patterns in how Lilith treats Lucifer and his relationship with Charlie. I have every right to think it's fucked up that Lilith made a deal with her ex to stay in the realm that traumatized her husband though! This isn't me saying "Lucilith is bad and shouldn't be shipped" because I like pre-series Lucilith. More accurately, I like pre-Charlie Lucilith. It's implied in More Than Anything that Lilith didn't like the things Lucifer was showing Charlie so she just forced them apart, potentially making Lucifer’s mental health issues worse.

I'm not saying people can't like Lucilith, but if you think it's NOT weird for Lilith to be in Heaven on a deal with her ex, you're sanitizing the situation because by doing that Lilith left her mentally ill and traumatized husband and her daughter to rule Hell on their own. She hasn't talked to Charlie or Lucifer in 7 years.

(Also, they might not be divorced but they are separated, as mentioned by Charlie; she specifically refers to "after Mom and Dad split". I can't say I'd blame Lucifer if he did decide to divorce her though.)

I'm not trying to indicate that Lucilith is objectively bad or anything but I AM saying Lucilith shippers need to stop using the family portraits to deflect "Lucilith looks like it MIGHT be toxic in the current day" commentary because like it or not, Lilith leaving her kingdom that Charlie claims she absolutely adored for her daughter and mentally ill husband to rule and leaving to the realm that traumatized her husband so bad he doesn’t seem to care if they decide to try to kill him is fucked up.

[sodisco]

People on this webbed site will post the most horrible shit and it will get reblogged uncritically and if anyone in the comments says "hey maybe we should cool it on the sui baiting, like I hate these people too but it's sort of harmful to more people than them to be posting this kind of thing and tbh they don't deserve to kill themselves over this." and that person immediately has a call out post written for them

[guest-1-2-3]

Ppl rlly be out here asking why i like or don’t like a certain ship. Heck if i’m supposed to have logical reasons buddy this ship gives me feelings of happiness and makes me smile when i consume content surrounding it and i don’t vibe with the other one. one of them gives me giggles when im on my phone at 2am in bed and the other doesn’t. idk what im supposed to say here bro

[thebubblesoutlet]

The Bridgerton BOOK fandom is a-ok with a genderbent Sophie because they enjoy fetishizing white mlm ships. It makes no sense for Sophie to be genderbent considering that her main internal struggle has to do with her intersecting gender and class identities.

They're ok with making Eloise a lesbian because according to them all angry feminists must secretly be gay. They're also ok with it because they hate her (borderline emotionally abusive) storyline and have a hard time projecting onto her.

The push back against Fran and Michaela has been interesting to say the least. They're trying to justify their homophobia because of "Fran's fertility issues" as if its something exclusive to heterosexual relationships.

Just very eye opening. Anyways, I'm officially excited for Fran and Michaela, my 2 pretty ladies. I hope Netflix at least tries to protect the actresses, and Masali especially.

P.S i totally get being queer and feeling like eloise is a lesbian. I personally shipped Creloise and I'm still hoping that that relationship will come to fruition. I am in no way referring to the accepting, inclusive show fans. I'm instead SPECIFICALLY referring to a section of white straight women on Instagram and Twitter who don't like outspoken eloise as much as their sweet docile little Fran. Its layers of homophobia and internalised misogyny all wrapped up together tbh. The instances I've discussed in this post are all things I've observed/ seen people who are overly invested in those ridiculously mediocre books discuss these last few days. The only straight bridgerton IMO is daphne😭😭😭😭

[fxoye]

i'm honestly at a loss right now. like... what even is happening on the SNW star trek reddit thread?

i know i shouldn't be surprised at this point, but the level of pushback and dismissal when it comes to even the mere possibility of spock being queer is just... baffling.

like, i get that reddit has its share of toxicity and closed-mindedness, but for some reason i thought the star trek fandom would be a bit more evolved, you know? this is literally a franchise that has always been about inclusivity, diversity, and pushing social boundaries. and yet here we are, in 2024, still having to justify the basic idea that hey, maybe the character with a decades-long history of queer subtext and coding could, in fact, be queer.

it's just wild to me that this is even a debate. like, i'm sorry, but the idea of kirk and spock's relationship having homoerotic undertones is not some fringe tumblr headcanon - it has been acknowledged and explored by literal cast members, writers, and even gene roddenberry himself. the term "slash" in fanfiction comes from kirk/spock stories, for crying out loud. this is not new!

and yet we have people in that reddit thread acting like the mere suggestion of a queer spock is some sort of sacrilegious retcon that would ruin the character forever. as if spock's entire 50+ year history would be erased if he so much as looked at a man with anything other than heterosexual brotherhood.

it's just so frustrating and disheartening to see this level of knee-jerk dismissal and erasure, especially in a fandom that prides itself on being progressive and imaginative. like, we can envision a future with warp drives and aliens and literal magic space gods, but a queer vulcan is a bridge too far? okay then.

and the thing is, no one is even saying that spock is definitively, unquestionably gay, or that every single iteration of his character needs to be explicitly queer. all we're saying is that there is room for that interpretation, and that queer stories have just as much right to be told as any others. but apparently even that is too much for some folks.

it's a reminder that even in supposedly "enlightened" geeky spaces, homophobia and heteronormativity are still alive and well. and it's exhausting, honestly. as a queer trekkie, i'm just so tired of having to constantly justify my existence and fight for scraps of representation.

you know what, i'm gonna say it: the erasure and denial of spock's queer subtext, and specifically the spirk ship, is not just frustrating - it's straight up homophobic.

like, let's look at the facts here. kirk and spock's relationship has been coded as romantic and even erotic since literally the beginning of the franchise. the term "t'hy'la", which has been used to describe their bond, translates to "friend, brother, lover" in vulcan. that's not subtext, that's just... text.

and the evidence just keeps piling up from there. the way spock is the only person who can pull kirk out of his darkest moments, the way they constantly risk their lives and careers for each other, the "this simple feeling" speech in the motion picture... like, come on. even the kelvin timeline movies had scenes of them practically eye-fucking on the bridge.

and don't even get me started on the plethora of literary references that heavily code their relationship as queer. kirk and spock's dynamic has been compared to achilles and patroclus, gilgamesh and enkidu, alexander the great and hephaestion... all classic examples of homoerotic male partnerships. the iconic back-to-back pose from the episode "bread and circuses" is a direct visual reference to the novel "ishmael" by barbara hambly, which depicts a gay romance between two men. (as somebody pointed out; this is not accurate and since i was hazed asf (meds) when i wrote this, can’t remember what literary parallel i was actually trying to draw here. let me dig through my stash of gay literature history and i’ll address this 😭☝️).

these are not coincidences or fan delusions - they are deliberate, well-documented artistic choices layered into the very foundation of kirk and spock's relationship. and the fact that so many people are eager to ignore or downplay them in order to cling to a heteronormative fantasy of male friendship is honestly pretty telling.

and look, i get it. it's easy to claim "they were just best friends" because that's what we've been culturally conditioned to see as the default. but the reality is, intimate male relationships have been historically desexualized and stripped of romantic coding in order to maintain heterosexual norms. the achilles/patroclus model of male love used to be widely understood as having a romantic and even sexual element - it was only in the 19th and 20th centuries that it was aggressively reframed as "platonic friendship" in a textbook example of straightwashing.

so when people insist that kirk and spock's bond could never be anything other than a sexless bromance, they are literally upholding centuries of homophobic revisionism designed to erase queer love from our cultural narratives. and i'm sorry, but that's not something i can get behind as a queer fan.

you cannot look at the overwhelming evidence of kirk and spock's queer subtext, the decades of analysis exploring their relationship through a romantic lens, the undeniable impact and influence of queer interpretations on the very fabric of this fandom... and tell me with a straight face that it's all meaningless or invalid.

kirk/spock walked so that every other slash pairing could run. it is the ur-text of queer shipping in modern fandom. and while it may have started as subtext, it has long since transcended those limitations to become an integral part of star trek's cultural legacy.

but at the end of the day, i know that fandom will always be what we make of it. no amount of downvotes or closed-minded rhetoric can change the fact that queer interpretations of spock have been part of his story since day one, and will continue to be so long as there are lgbtq+ fans who see ourselves in him.

so to my fellow queer trekkies: keep boldly going, keep reading the subtext, keep telling our stories. they can call it illogical all they want - we know the truth. and as a wise vulcan once said: "there's no point in denying the facts of one's nature." 🖖🏳️‍🌈

[portraitofadyke]

what's been bugging me is how some people, especially steddyhands shippers, seem to ignore Stede's complete blind spot that is Ed. I've been rereading some post s1 fix-its, and it's amazing how almost every one of their reunions had Stede blaming Ed for marooning the crew and attempting to kill Lucius (same with ppl's expectation that there would be some sort of physical fight). And then he just. Doesn't.

Stede obviously cares for the crew. A lot. But the moment Ed's well being is in the picture, he becomes hyperfocused on Ed and Ed only. Obviously the crew told him about being marooned, but we don't see him mention that once in his letters. They reunite with Lucius, and yet all Stede talks about is Ed (and his poor portrayal on his wanted posters)- Lucius confesses about Ed throwing him overboard, and all Stede does is question 'why?', because he knows Ed wouldn't just randomly attempt to murder Lucius. The moment Lucius tells him Stede broke Ed, Stede is back to blaming himself, never Ed. He clearly cares about Lucius, because later in the ep, he tries to reconcile with him by giving him 'dating advice' and trying to save him from what happened to him and Ed, but Ed comes first.

We actually see it in s1 too, if only briefly, in s7 when Stede desperately tries to keep Ed abroad and becomes oblivious to the crew's concerns and problems and we get the iconic line "Eat and apple, for God's sake!" Stede cares, but Ed is at the front of his mind and it's hard for him to understand what could be more important.

In s02e03, he gets his ship and the rest of his crew back, but Ed is nowhere. Izzy is literally missing a leg and Stede just tells him to piss off.

And I've seen people questioning why Stede never questioned that, why he never bothered to ask about Izzy's missing toe or back scars or why he didn't care about the leg more. Izzy clearly lies again and tells Stede Ed shot it off because he told Ed he loves him, and yet stede just. Doesn't care.

And i mean, that question is valid. Because people see Stede as someone who's much more caring, more hero-coded. But Stede is far more a romantic hero to Ed than he is your general hero to the rest of the characters. Stede is selfish. Stede is blind-sided. Stede is willing to abandon his morals when it comes to Ed.

I think there are two reasons Stede doesn't question Izzy's Ed-inflicted-injuries, or any other, for that matter. First one is, Stede's blind spot for Ed. Yeah, Izzy got his leg shot off by Ed (not entirely true, but I digress), but there must have been a reason why. Yeah, Izzy got his toes cut off and hand-fed, but Ed had a reason. Stede knows Ed is not violent by default, so he knows something must have prompted him to do that. Is it completely justified? That's a differenr convo about people trying to portray Izzy as a victim rather than someone who kept pushing Ed over the edge until they were both too far.

The second is... Yeah, Stede just doesn't care. Especially about Izzy. Lie it's been pointed out, Stede just thinks izzy is a dick. He misnames him. He's rightuflly mad at him for selling them out to the english. He literally dreams about killing Izzy for that. Stede blames himself for abandoning Ed and everything that happened after (and yes, Ed's actions are Ed's actions, but that's how Stede sees it), but he clearly also blames Izzy for setting them up.

So, Stede sees Izzy's missing leg? Probably deserved that. Back scars, missing toe? Eh, probably deserved that, too, Ed would look absolutely lovely in a braid. Is that morally correct? No, but Stede isn't written to be a moral character. That's what makes him so real, and that's why so many other actors than Rhys would struggle making Stede sympathetic and likeable to the audiences.

That's not to say Stede doesn't see Ed's wrongs. He absolutely does. He just. Doesn't care that much in the end, because his love for all of Ed is that bright, to the point of being absolutely, utterly selfish. DJenkins said it from the beginning; this show is about Ed and Stede's relationship. Stede doesn't question Izzy's injuries bc in the end, it just doesn't matter to him when Ed is in the picture

[capyfroyo]

Nya slander makes my heart ache

:( IF I SEE ANOTHER PERSON HATING ON HER I WILL WXPLODE. Its so unnecessary.

Especially if it’s something dumb l”i hate jaya” “i dont like the ways shes written” “shes annoying”

Let me guess. She gets in the way of your ship. She (deservingly) criticizes your favorite character? “Shes annoying” and so many male characters with her traits are never criticized for it? Can you not handle a female character that speaks her mind?

PLEASE! ACCEPT THAT SHE IS IMPORTANT!! She doesnt need to prove herself!!

on a lighter topic. I have just been wondering why there is such little wlw art in the ninjago fandom compared to the rest. Yeah there aren’t so many girls, but people also find the most random and insignificant male characters to ship. Gender bent art of male characters exists and is cool, but if you want yuri cant you draw the canonically female characters?? Are people just bad at characterizing them in their heads? The amount of “ceo/literally/number one fan of cole/kai/zane/lloyd” accounts iv seen across so many platforms and not a single nya one. Claiming a character for only yourself is a bit odd and a whole different story, but in the context of this why is nobody “obsessing” over nya??

Generally, she is only appreciated in the context of a romantic relationship. ( coff coff jaya. btw it makes no sense to hate nya bcs of jaya when jay was the one who wanted them to get together???)

Idk this all just confuses me. Nya slander chips my soul away and i dont trust anyone who hates her and cant justify it.

[yukishirostar]

So people are talking about a post in the Zolu tag by a certain tumblr user in regards to their issues with Zolu as a ship. They shall be unnamed because i dont wish to bring attention to them and instead just want to focus on their arguments because they're not the first people to make some of these points and so this is also an opportunity for me to talk about these things (a tweet is going around on Twitter containing these screenshots with the username so you can find it there if you need to anyway).

The way this person dismisses the relationship between Zoro and Luffy as a result of needing to pair gay Zoro with someone is too laughable, they must be very fit in order to be able to do these mental gymnastics. I believe that many people who are going on about the Zolu scenes in the OPLA were already Zolu shippers who were familiar with the original story and are enjoying the moments because they were well, really good Zolu moments? And there is actually, shockingly, many good Zolu moments in the original story too which is why many people ship them. Wild, I know.

Then there's 'straight-washed Sanji'. Equally if not more of a bizarre thing to believe. I might make some people mad especially the Sanji stans out there who constantly insist on the 'repressed queer' narrative with his character, but Sanji is written pretty explicitly to be seen as a cisgender and heterosexual character. The way you say with your whole chest that Luffy is 'canonically' aroace but don't acknowledge that Sanji is 'canonically' cishet is beyond hypocritical. If you believe Sanji looking like a 'misogynistic straight man' is different from the way he is written in canon then maybe you should go back and reread/rewatch series with your eyes open this time. If you wish to headcanon him with the frankly offensive repressed bisexual/transgender cliché then go ahead, but that is clearly not the intention Oda has with his character.

There's also the fact that aroace people can uh. Be in relationships. Get married. Have children. Did it occur to you that many people who ship Zolu ship them as an ace couple or-

First thing I want to say here, as a trans man who is 'mlm', can other dudes stop with this idea that women or fem-aligned individuals enjoying homosexual relationships between two men is inherently fetishising or that as a masc-aligned individual your enjoyment of a ship is morally superior in some way. Stop pulling out your 'mlm/ transmasc / cis gay' card in order to justify why your ship is superior. Its cringe af.

But if we are to insist that 'cishet female gaze fetishising mlm' is going on then ironically Zosan fits that the better than any ship in the fandom. It being by far the most popular mlm ship means there is likely a higher proportion of people who identify as cishet women who ship it. Its also the classic 'two men who dislike/hate eachother and have a toxic relationship but hot sexual tension' slash/yaoi stereotype. Majority of Zosan I've come across is depicting Zoro as the masculine male man in the relationship while Sanji the effeminate twink that Sanji stans project themselves onto and they go crazy for the bickering that is apparently reminiscent to them of a toxic heterosexual marriage. Meanwhile every Zolu/Luzo shipper I've interacted with has been some flavour of queer and Zolu is closest to the 'falling in love with your same sex bestie' narrative that the majority if not every non-heterosexual person has experienced at least once in their lifetime. This is just my personal view of course, but I think noting a difference in perspective on this topic is interesting and reveals that at the end of the day this is totally subjective and based purely on anecdotes.

Also it's just a very weird point here that apparently OP has 'plenty of varied queer rep' (it actually doesn't have that many canonical queer characters in relation to its cast size but anyway) and other media doesn't so shipping aroace characters in gay relationships is valid in those but not in One Piece … HUH???? So you're saying if One Piece had 'less' queer rep, then Zolu would be fine to ship? Idek my brain hurts.

"I have black friends so I'll speak for the black community and get offended for them" (btw this person then proceeded to block aroace people who had issues with their depiction of aroace people).

Also if we're talking canonical depictions, the only thing Zoro has been canonically depicted as is also aroace, equally if not moreso than Luffy. So by your own rules, you can't ship a cishet (sanji) with an aroace (zoro), therefore Zosan is now invalid. Stop erasing Zoro's aroace identity bigot.

'Categorically wrong' makes me laugh. I don't ship Zoro and Nami but like, people can ship what they want to??

'The general public is aware enough of gay people and how to spot them these days' uh... firstly this sounds very homophobic. Secondly the general public (cishet ppl) are famously bad at recognising queerness even when its in flashing lights before them. Thirdly you make it sound like Zoro was going around on roller skates and booty shorts listening to YMCA and Madonna in the show. I do agree he was gay-coded but it was mostly because he had sexual tension with every man he interacted with, not for the strange reasons you pointed out...

Its kinda the elephant in the room too but like. These are just headcanons. You can have multiple headcanons and interpretations of a character's sexuality. I can see Zoro as aroace virgin one day and a gay h*e the next. I'm actually allowed, legally, to do that.

The way they think shipping Zolu is harmful to aroace representation when BOTH characters are closest to being canonically aroace than anything yet ship Zosan, label being anti-Zolu as some kind of pro-ace activism, and then proceeded to block aroace people for criticising their incorrect depiction of what being aroace is...

This was a lot of words to say that you don't like a ship. Just say you don't like it, and it gets in the way of the ship you like, instead of writing a virtue signalling essay to justify your reasoning. Please.

They had some more to say on future posts I'll just pick my favourite bits

They really have this narrative that Zolu is only popular because of OPLA and can't fathom that its just a popular ship in general and always has been huh. And they couldn't make it more obvious that they're totally salty about it ranking in the top 100 most popular tumblr ships, lmao.

Your classic case of 'self-identifying ally who speaks over the people they are supposed allies of'. Its a general rule that you feel the need to declare yourself an ally you're probably not an ally, actual allies know they need to just shut up and do the work. Saying 'this character's aroace' and 'I have aroace friends' actually isn't what allyship is, thats just accepting that ace people exist which is like... the baseline.

Calling a wholesome loving ship like Zolu an icky ship is a severe consequence of online brain (this person is 26 years old btw)

[aniseya]

i saw some things on the hellsite of twitter that i’ll just rant about here because god knows i don’t have the strength to deal with swtwt.

i feel like there’s kinda a misconception around qimir kidnapping osha being something that stans gloss over. like yeah, it is kidnapping, and more problematically in his head it’s justified, but people forget that’s how so many ships/especially enemy ships happen. how i take it is that qimir took osha not only because he was interested in her power but because he also knew mae was gone/the jedi were too.

in his head, he sees that they left osha for dead or were gonna kill her anyways because she’s dressed like mae. and so what, he’s just supposed to leave her there to be murdered for a misinterpretation or worse, killed because they don’t want anything to do with her (in his mind)? not saying that was SOLELY his intention, because he’s got warped perspectives left and right, but like even if he was on the light side would anyone do any different than this? and was he supposed to just tend to her wounds on the goddamn battleground of fallen jedi awaiting to be slaughtered by jedi and have osha get slaughtered with him (in his mind)? he basically HAD to take her even if he didn’t want anything directly from her. his own personal mantra was that he strikes down jedi, but others, so even if it wasn’t osha i believe he would’ve done the same thing for a person who had been abandoned and left to die by the people he considers his own oppressors.

once again, i am not saying he doesn’t also not want something from her, but i do think he’s just a low that while he does want something from her, he doesn’t necessarily expect her to believe or join him. he is vulnerable, feeling a little hurt from mae, and now has to reorganize his plan to strike down jedi because his cover was blown. they could find him easily now if they wanted, ESPECIALLY since he is with osha. remember him saying that her place in the force is what drew people near to her? he’s basically in a position he could quite literally not gaf if he was killed, just a frayed wire with no intention right away of having himself reconnected and at the height of his power.

even leslye said that qimir was ready to die if osha wanted to ignite the saber, genuinely. so many vibes i picked up from him this episode were depressed and defeated. he’s vulnerable with all these emotions and while he’s interested in osha, at the moment of the episode he’s just ready for whatever happens, even if that meant death.

manipulation/inherent toxicity is present in *just* about every star wars ship that starts off on enemy frontlines. but what everyone means when they say there’s no manipulation they mean the kind of manipulation that leslye is referring to: twisting the truth to make osha submissive to him, wholeheartedly knowing what he’s saying is just a power play to get her to become his toy. leslye admitted that he’s being honest, as much as he thinks his version of honesty is, so even in his own honesty he could be using that to “enlighten” her, but not in the way where he knows he’s being disingenuous and purposely trying to create an unequal dynamic with him in the lead.

this is the kind of manipulation that so many have thrown at the ship as a reason against it, which is why so many stans talk about it and celebrate that leslye had our back because the idea of a more equal, non-manipulative (in that above sense) etl relationship being confirmed allows us to shrug off discourse like that without feeling the weight of its dogpilling.

[blueiscoool]

European Court Upholds Italy's Right to Seize Greek Bronze from Getty Museum

A European court on Thursday upheld Italy’s right to seize a prized Greek statue from the J. Paul Getty Museum in California, ruling that Italy was justified in trying to reclaim an important part of its cultural heritage and rejecting the museum’s appeal.

The European Court of Human Rights, or ECHR, determined that Italy’s decades-long efforts to recover the “Victorious Youth” statue from the Malibu-based Getty were not disproportionate.

“Victorious Youth,” a life-sized bronze dating from 300 B.C. to 100 B.C., is one of the highlights of the Getty’s collection. Though the artist is unknown, some scholars believe it was made by Lysippos, Alexander the Great’s personal sculptor.

The bronze, which was pulled from the sea in 1964 by Italian fishermen and then exported out of Italy illegally, was purchased by the Getty in 1977 for $4 million and has been on display there ever since.

The Getty had appealed to the European court after Italy’s high Court of Cassation in 2018 upheld a lower court’s confiscation order. The Getty had argued that its rights to the statue, under a European human rights protocol on protection of property, had been violated by Italy’s campaign to get it back.

The court ruled Thursday that no such violation had occurred.

“This is not just a victory for the Italian government. It’s a victory for culture,” said Maurizio Fiorilli, who as an Italian government attorney had spearheaded Italy’s efforts to recover its looted antiquities and, in particular, the Getty bronze.

The Getty has long defended its right to the statue, saying Italy had no legal claim to it.

Among other things, the Getty had argued that the statue is of Greek origin, was found in international waters and was never part of Italy’s cultural heritage. It cited a 1968 Court of Cassation ruling that found no evidence that the statue belonged to Italy.

Italy argued the statue was indeed part of its own cultural heritage, that it was brought to shore by Italians aboard an Italian-flagged ship and was exported illegally, without any customs declarations or payments.

After years of further legal wrangling, an Italian court in Pesaro in 2010 ordered the statue seized and returned, at the height of Italy’s campaign to recover antiquities looted from its territory and sold to museums and private collectors around the globe.

Thursday’s ruling by the Strasbourg, France-based ECHR was a chamber judgment. Both sides now have three months to ask that the case be heard by the court’s Grand Chamber for a final decision. But Thursday’s ruling was unanimous, with no dissenting judges, and the Grand Chamber can refuse to hear the case.

There was no immediate comment from the Getty, and its lawyers referred comment to the museum.

Italian Culture Minister Gennaro Sangiuliano praised Thursday’s decision as an “unequivocal ruling” that recognized the rights of the Italian state and its ownership of the statue.

“Following today’s ruling … the Italian government will restart contacts with U.S. authorities for assistance in the implementation of the confiscation order,” he said.

In a statement, he doubled down on Italy’s campaign to bring its looted treasures home, and noted that recently Italy has ceased cooperation with foreign museums that don’t recognize Italian legal confiscation orders.

Recently, Italy banned any loans to the Minneapolis Institute of Art following a dispute over an ancient marble statue believed to have been looted from Italy almost a half-century ago.

The Getty had appealed to the ECHR by arguing, among other things, that Italy’s 2010 confiscation order constituted a violation of its right to enjoy its possessions and that it would be deprived of that right if U.S. authorities carried out the seizure.

The ECHR however strongly reaffirmed Italy’s right to pursue the protection of its cultural heritage, especially from unlawful exportation.

“The court further held that owing, in particular, to the Getty Trust’s negligence or bad faith in purchasing the statue despite being aware of the claims of the Italian state and their efforts to recover it, the confiscation order had been proportionate to the aim of ensuring the return of an object that was part of Italy’s cultural heritage,” said the summary of the ruling.

It wasn’t immediately clear what would happen next, though Fiorilli said the Getty had exhausted legal remedies and it’s now for U.S. the courts to enforce the Italian confiscation order.

“It’s not about guaranteeing the right to property, it’s about guaranteeing the internationally recognized value of every nation’s right to protect its cultural patrimony,” Fiorilli told The Associated Press over the telephone.

The statue, nicknamed the “Getty Bronze,” is a signature piece for the museum. Standing about 5 feet (1.52 meters) tall, the statue of the young athlete raising his right hand to an olive wreath crown around his head is one of the few life-sized Greek bronzes to have survived.

The bronze is believed to have sunk with the ship that was carrying it to Italy after the Romans conquered Greece. After being found in the nets of Italian fishermen trawling in international waters in 1964, it was allegedly buried in an Italian cabbage patch and hidden in a priest’s bathtub before it was taken out of the country.

Italy has successfully won back thousands of artifacts from museums, collections and private owners around the world that it says were looted or stolen from the country illegally, and recently opened a museum to house them until they can be returned to the regions from where they were looted.

The most important work to date that Italy has successfully brought back is the Euphronios Krater, one of the finest ancient Greek vases in existence. The Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York, which purchased it for $1 million in 1972 from an art dealer later accused of acquiring looted artifacts, returned it to Italy in 2008.

In 2010, the same year that Italy ordered the “Victorious Youth” statue confiscated from the Getty, a criminal trial ended in Rome against the Getty’s former curator of antiquities, Marion True. After years of trial, the Rome court ruled that the statute of limitations had expired on charges that True received stolen artifacts. She has denied wrongdoing.

In 2007, the Getty, without admitting any wrongdoing, agreed to return 40 ancient treasures in exchange for the long-term loans of other artifacts. Similar deals have been reached with other museums.

Under the 2007 deal, the two sides agreed to postpone further discussion of “Victorious Youth” until the court case was decided.

By Nicole Winfield.

[autumnmobile12]

Helluva Boss S2 Trailer:  “You don’t love mother and you don’t love me!”

I have a problem with this line, and I’ve had a problem with Octavia’s character for awhile now, so I’m going to talk about it.

To cut her some slack, her house and family life is a mess.  Fighting parents, cheating dad, feeling neglected by both parents, and she’s a teenager on top of that.  I get it.  Moody, angsty teen with a really good reason for being moody and angsty.

And Stolas isn’t blameless in all this.  With the cheating, he’s actively a problem, but we can see that he loves his ‘little owlet.’  But he is a terrible father.  In the Seeing Stars episode, I thought that it was going to be a lot more Stolas and Octavia-centric on their relationship, but no.  He and Blitzo spend most of the time looking for her just dicking around in some human comedy act when they really didn’t need to be there.  Seriously, it wouldn’t have been the first time Blitzo massacred a group of humans to get out of an awkward situation, but if Stolas is so concerned about his daughter, then why didn't he do something about their situation? If he loves his daughter so much, why is he okay with this distraction? He's not even the one who gets him out of it in the end.  That was the first time Helluva Boss actually disappointed me.  I don’t think the brief bit of backstory we got with Blitzo and Loona justified the rest of that whole bit, so it was really pointless.  That piece could have been handled better.

Throughout the Stolitz ship, Stolas is 100% ignoring Octavia.  But terrible dad aside, the line from the Season 2 trailer, “You don’t love Mother and you don’t love me!” should be emotional.

Except…. “You don’t love Mother….”

…why would he?

Does Octavia not see what a violent, toxic bitch her mom is?  She has seen her screaming, getting violent, and throwing things. I suppose Octavia could have the opinion that Stella's anger is justified with the cheating and all, but then that explanation implies she thinks reacting violently like that is acceptable behavior. And let’s not forget Stella straight up ordered a hit on Stolas, which nearly succeeded.  Does Octavia not know about this?  Again, Stolas being a terrible dad for not taking steps to get the daughter he supposedly loves away from the psycho who ordered an assassination, but did none of this get back to Octavia?

Not that any of it makes Stolas' infidelity okay. If you're unhappy in a relationship, leave it. But with the way Stella behaves, there's no rational way Octavia can expect her parents to love each other. It sucks to be the child in that position, especially a teen still figuring things out, but that is very much an 'it is what it is' situation and you gotta make the best of it in whatever way you can.

As it stands, it isn't fair for Octavia to entirely blame Stolas for their family falling apart.

"You don't love mother and you don't love me," makes it sound like Octavia is consciously choosing her violent, narcissistic witch of mother over her dad. This also doesn't make sense with the plot because there's no sign of Octavia having a close relationship with her mom. There are no portraits of them together in a loving embrace as we see with her and Stolas. Plus, Stella doesn't care about Octavia. The only two times in the show she vaguely mentions her is as the 'one egg that finally dropped out of her' and when she and Andrealphus are discussing the inheritance that will go to Octavia. She doesn't care about Stolas either. The only effect the cheating had on her was the idea of public embarrassment for their family.

Neither of Octavia's parents care for her the way they should, so for the, "You don't love mother and you don't love me," line to work to its fullest impact, it should have been phrased as, “You don’t love me!  Neither you or Mom love me!”

I do love Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel…but Octavia’s character is really poorly handled.  I remember it being said in an interview that Helluva Boss does have heavier focus on its male characters while Hazbin Hotel was supposed to be more female-centric, but when it comes to Octavia, that structure in the storytelling is crumbling under its own weight. There is a story here and it has some major gaps that need addressing.

To give them some benefit of doubt, maybe this’ll be addressed in an episode before that line hits, so maybe it’ll make more sense. Or they could make it clear she said it out of anger.  At least, I hope so because I really need some righteous retribution for how Stolas behaves with his daughter.

...

Edit for clarity: The point of this post is a criticism of the lack of story we get for Octavia that justifies her motives, not a criticism of why she herself behaves the way that she does. The dysfunctional family is heavy stuff and since it is a front and center issue with Stolas' background, it needs more attention than the series gives it.

[xchronicles]

The more I think about Chakotay being stranded on Ysida for full 10 years, the less sense it makes in the context of the story.

To add a disclaimer, two of my favorite Trek episodes are Last Flight of the Protostar, parts 1 and 2. However, I truly believe that narratively, it would have worked just as well if Chakotay had been stranded for 'only' a year. In fact, it makes more sense from a storytelling perspective than having him be there for the full 10 years for no good reason.

Why you ask?

He is a character who has suffered greatly throughout his life and was already stranded in the Delta Quadrant for 7 years. Chakotay's portrayal as a person of color unfortunately falls into a common media trope where marginalized characters are often made to endure significant hardship or trauma to justify their character arc and presence in the story. Prodigy should have done better than subjecting him to a cruel 10 years of isolation for no good reason other than to make him, and I quote, 'grizzled'.

The Protostar was rendered completely useless on Ysida, making his role as its 'guardian' meaningless. If someone had found him, he was alone and essentially powerless, so there was little he could have done to prevent anyone from taking the ship.

I believe Chakotay would have been in a much worse state after 10 years of isolation (possibly even dead) compared to how the kids found him. Did the creators consider the severe effects of such prolonged isolation on a person, regardless of their strength? Chakotay had already shown vulnerability and a tendency to slip. His return to the prime universe doesn’t accurately reflect the trauma of a decade alone. His behavior and condition would be far more believable if he had been isolated for just a year.

If the math is correct, Chakotay is 66 years old. Despite the extended human lifespan in the Trek universe, aging still happens naturally. Janeway planned to retire at a younger age than Chakotay's current one, especially considering his 10 years of isolation. Given this context, it seems implausible that Chakotay would be assigned command of Voyager-A so soon after a decade of trauma, even if some time has passed. Someone stranded for so long might indeed be eager to avoid staying in one place and go back to work to honor his lost crew. However, his deep survivor’s guilt and unresolved trauma from those 10 years should have made such a quick return to command problematic. The reality is that Chakotay, at 66 and with a decade of emotional scars, wouldn’t realistically be ready to take on the captaincy without addressing his past experiences in a more meaningful way. Chakotay bounced back to his old self the moment the 'Cracked Mirror' episode happened, and his hardships and trauma are never addressed or mentioned again. It was a significant and intense arc for Chakotay, involving deep trauma that could not realistically be resolved within just two episodes. Yet, the story completely disregarded this development once it was no longer needed.

All of this could have been avoided if he had been stranded on Ysida for just a year.

If they needed Adreek to be a skeleton to set up that scene, it could have been attributed to anything on the planet affecting him after he died. The planet was hostile enough that no one would question how this happened. If we assume Adreek decided to look for a solution after a couple of months and then went missing, that would give Chakotay enough time to end up in the state he was found in by the kids—scruffy hair, a torn shirt, and all. Spending an additional 6 months alone, reflecting on what happened to his friend and dealing with such a sensitive topic, is a significant amount of time.

[burst-of-iridescent]

Why do you think people fight do much over these ships?

A. certain people are always going to be incapable of behaving reasonably online, especially when it comes to which of their blorbos they want to kiss each other.

B. many zutara shippers point out that, if the narrative had led to its natural ending, zutara should have been canon. compared to fanon ships in other fandoms where most shippers are content to just let the ship be fanon (dramione comes to mind) this poses a greater "threat" to canon shippers.

C. bryke.

and no, that's not an exaggeration. creators have a lot of influence in shaping fandom behaviour, and bry.ke taking every opportunity to publicly shit on zutara and mock zutara shippers even up to this year has no doubt made canon shippers think they're justified in doing the same.

their gross lack of professionalism is the main reason i will never respect them as creators because part of the responsibility of being a storyteller is knowing that the story ceases to belong solely to you once it's out in the world. you will never be able to control how people interpret the story you wanted to tell, and they're not always going to interpret it the way you want them to. sometimes, those perspectives will be wrong. they'll be the complete opposite of what you were trying to say. they may even make you uncomfortable.

but if it's not hurting any real individual, you have no right to publicly disparage, mock, or judge them for those interpretations. especially by doing things like taking fanart they sent you out of love for the story you created and using it to make fun of them in front of an entire audience at comic con.

storytelling is a two-way street, and if you can't treat the people on the other end with respect and dignity just because you don't agree with their takes on fictional characters, then you have no business being a creator in the first place.

[wickjump]

i feel so bad for kids in the pr0ship "community"...i came across a cool dreamtale au the other day and at first i wanted to enjoy it.the artist is a minor who has "dr3ammar3 makes me uncomfortable dont talk to me about it" in their bio. but they have a friends tag and all their friends are adult pr0s so they still think its okay. i wish i could get them out of there.

-💻anon

oh man :( i see this shit all the time it’s. really upsetting. especially on tiktok, i block pros and i see so many with LVL13/14/15 in their bio and it makes me sick. once I saw LVL12 and it’s like. I actualyl had to put my phone down and try to calm down from an anxiety attack because those kids are in so much trouble they don’t. even realize it. and it sucks so much to see and makes me actually ill. i was once one of those kids and i almost deadass got kidnapped because of it and it makes me physically nauseous to see kids like that. they’re all victims and i hope they’ll realize that before things get worse for them.

but the pro community is manipulative. even years after exiting the community it still affects how i view things instinctively and really warped my morals before i was old enough to grasp them. this is something im really ashamed of because like. it’s weird. but instinctively i look too deeply into innocent things in shows or whatever and think of it in a ship context before realizing oh! that’s not! given whatever. it’s like years of conditioning i went through and it still affects me. if im honest i only really left when i was 16 and then was ‘neutral’ for a yearish after. i justified that content when i was eleven, it’s difficult for me to try and change that sort of coding now. im obv trying and don’t participate in any of that, it’s just. weird instinctual brain stuff. “what if [fucked up thing] happened” in my mind before i get rid of the thought.

people don’t realize how deeply it can affect you and how you respond to things. i mean, you’re a child in a fetish community (which is what it IS, fuck you). you’re going to view innocent things as sexual because that’s what everyone else is doing and saying and it’s just. eugh. that’s not even considering how my mind warped how i viewed my own assault as a child because of that. anyone who ignores people speaking out about this is just,, really weird at best. people who claim they can support proshippers while ignoring the people who were groomed and traumatized by that shit is,, really freaking gross. proshippers individually might not be satan themselves, just,, really weird, but they still participate and support a community that is actively grooming children.

having participated in the community for as long as i had has like. unfortunately really screwed me up. i know too much about the community and it literally affected how i view people irl at a terribly young age. and it hurts to think how many people in the community still are being or were groomed at some point. i got out, and i’m 19 now. the people my age who i knew and didn’t get out are now adults and part of the problem for other children. it’s a terrible cycle when you realize that.

these questions are fine, discussing the community objectively or asking questions or whatever is chill. i just don’t want to be asked if i support it given like,, everything yk? i like spreading the word about how it actually does mess up people (especially kids), just don’t want to ever have it associated with me. dunno why the prev question irked me so much, sorry ^^

ur chill!!!