#Forgotten Realms Modules

[rothebear]

Hmmm… I might have overdone it over the years with collecting D&D… what do you think?

[gale-sized-hole]

Do I have to bring back the “write fanfiction” post? Because I am puzzled over the attitude that Larian not making a DLC or sequel is… the end? That it’s over? Are we done now? Did we use up the entire framework and possibility for fix-it fic and interpretations and, god forbid, our own ideas for how the story continues? Do we have to be spoon-fed? Is that what this means?

[rukafais]

A thing that also bothers me is that a weird amount of people seem to have this weird narrative where salvatore doesnt want ANYONE ELSE to write good drow and HATES other authors and NEVER WANTS ANYONE ELSE ON HIS TURF and it's like

Elaine straight up states that without the Drizzt books, Liriel doesn't exist (because the necessary fantasy worldbuilding/existing framework wouldn't exist otherwise). Ed Greenwood's original Drow of the Underdark sourcebook explicitly references the Drizzt books and was published a year after Homeland came out. The Liriel books and War of the Spider Queen basically gave Gromph all of the characterisation that has now carried onto the Drizzt book, which, why would he incorporate that if he wasn't fine with it...it would be so easy to retcon. Shakti from Liriel's books is LITERALLY still a character and the Matron Mother of her House?? They are all on good terms???

[dukeofriven]

My biggest worry about Dungeons & Dragons: Honour Among Thieves is that it might make people for whom this is their first introduction to D&D think that Forgotten Realms lore is cool.

[psalacanthea]

Been working on a Forgotten Realms 5e summer themed adventure module.  Trying to find the best level for it.  Every time I do this I end up scouring the monster manual and pick the level around what monsters I want to feature, lol.  Should be done for testing in about a week, I’m excited.

[andromedasummer]

think im going to start making posts every time i finish a forgotten realms novel (im going thru them chronologically by release) and go into

1. what i found good about the writing and bad about the writing (prose, pacing, characterization, critical analysis of the misogyny (or its absences) thats rampant in these very old (80s) fantasy novels)

2. how it stands as a fantasy book overall (is it run of the mill, stale, does it introduce new/interesting concepts/break barriers, how does it work with your general d&d character = class = personality tropes)

3. what does it add to the forgotten realms as a whole (how it impacts the lore (in later novels, campaigns/modules, video games etc) , how it contradicts/is contradicted by past/present material, how it may add to a d&d games story, what aspects have been removed or adjusted in the modern day and for what reasons (correcting distasteful wordbuilding based on stereotypes or changes as a result of actual game design stuff, eg classes no longer being tied to your race = the balance of fantasy races making up the main characters in the novels etc)

[gamerhamlet]

bg3 plot spoilers /

I’m happy my bhaalspawn obsession/research rabbit hole from like three-four years ago is finally paying off I’ve wanted to make a bhaalspawn character for forever and now I can AND actually use them this is everything to me

[lumendelmari]

Balasar crouched against the dark stone. Eldeth was ever at the dragonborn's side, low-lit torch in hand, while Prince Derendil squatted down to her left. It made for an amusing picture, two hunched seven-foot-tall creatures and a dwarf in the middle. Their unusual trio had the grim task of examining the bodies of the fallen raiders. But before they did, Balasar wished to settle a minor curiosity that had nagged at him since his duel with the captain. The dragonborn did not know what the broken sword might reveal. He stared at the piece in his hand and saw just a hint of his reflection through the corrosion and grime, to no avail. It was just a shard.

"It's rusted," Eldeth observed. "That's odd."

The dragonborn nodded. "I thought so too."

"Most of their weapons were," said Derendil.

"That's foolishness," the shield dwarf muttered. "Balasar shattered the blade with a single blow. Who would dare to bring such a poorly crafted weapon on a raid?"

"What if the rust appeared recently?" the prince suggested. "Could it have been caused by a creature they encountered or a trap?"

Eldeth pondered that. "Aye, ye might be on to something—"

But whatever words the shield dwarf had thought to say fell silent as the tell-tale sign of rock crunching beneath light-booted feet signaled another's approach. As one, the trio looked up from the shards to recognize the approaching dark figure as Sarith.

[dragonagitator]

Timeline of major events during Gale Dekarios's lifetime

Here is my attempt to compile a timeline of major events that took place during Gale's lifetime, including his personal history, happenings in his hometown of Waterdeep, and major world events that would have affected him personally or affected everyone in Faerun. I hope this is useful in writing your Gale-centric fanfics!

The time period covered assumes that Gale is 40 years old during the events of BG3 and thus was born in the year 1452 DR. AFAIK there's no canon age given for Gale, but most fanons seem to peg him as being between 35 and 45, so I went with the middle of that range. Please feel free to adjust his estimated age for each event up or down depending on how old you think he is in BG3, e.g., if you think he's 38 then subtract 2 years, if you think he's 42 then add 2 years, etc.

Some of the more interesting implications of this timeline revolve around how much Mystra's powers and presence in the world significantly changed during Gale's lifetime. When Gale was a child or teen and first attracted the attention of Mystra, she was weak, not in contact with her Chosen, and assumed to be dead by most of the world. Gale was ~27 years old and already her lover by the time a "much diminished" Mystra called to Elminster for help, and Gale was ~35 years old when Mystra fully regained her powers as the Goddess of Magic. She seems to have dumped him shortly thereafter.

Detailed timeline and sources under the cut. It's long.

Most of the text that isn't specifically about Gale is copypasted from the Forgotten Realms wiki. See bottom for links. I haven't read all the novels and modules referenced by the wiki for these events yet and thus will likely need to revise this timeline as I work my way through those.

Birth to age ~27: until 1479 DR worldwide: Mystra was generally considered to be "dead"/missing during Gale's childhood and early adulthood because Mystra/Midnight was "murdered" by Cyric in 1385 DR (67 years before Gale was born).

However, Forgotten Realms canon of Mystra's timeline clashes with what Gale tells us about the timeline of his relationship with her:

Gale: "Once upon a time, not quite that long ago, there lived a wizard in a tower. The wizard was what one might call a prodigy, who from an early age could not only control the Weave, but compose it, much like a musician or a poet. Such was my skill that it earned me the attention of the mother of magic herself. The Lady of Mysteries. The goddess Mystra. She revealed herself to me and she became my teacher. In time, she became my muse, and later, even my lover." PC: "What did Mystra's attention feel like?" Gale: "Love. Perhaps it was not quite love, but you see, the wizard was but a very young man. It was most certainly love to him."

Speaking as a middle-aged person myself, while most 40-year-olds would consider 27 to be "young," the modifier of "very" suggests he that was much younger than 27 when he first became Mystra's lover. I'm older than the oldest estimates for Gale's age and I still wouldn't characterize myself at age 27 as being "but a very young woman." That description seems more fitting for someone in their late teens / early 20s.

Also, if he was "but a very young man" when they became lovers, then that means he was even younger (a child or teenager) when she first revealed herself to him and started teaching him magic.

So Gale's relationship with Mystra must have started during the period that the rest of the world believed she was dead or missing. Mystra did still have some sort of disembodied "presence" during this period, so maybe she was simply not able or interested in speaking to Elminster or her other previously established Chosen. Or perhaps she was fragmented, and Gale's relationship began with one of those fragments? Part of her "presence" ended up possessing a bear, but I'm assuming not the part that Gale was fucking.

Birth to age ~30: until 1482 DR worldwide: Gale was born and grew up during the "Era of Upheaval," which was known for widespread wild magic and dead magic zones, a lot of changes in the pantheon of deities, and a lot of wars and political conflicts amongst mortals.

Age ~16: c. 1468 DR in Waterdeep: "Dagult Neverember, the richest man in the city, became Open Lord."

Age ~27: 1479 DR in Waterdeep: "By this year, the Field Ward had been established, and Skullport was no longer inhabited."

Age ~27: 1479 DR in Waterdeep: "The 8th walking statue, the Griffon, appeared in Waterdeep and to defend Ahghairon's Tower. It eventually settled down near the Peaktop Aerie on Mount Waterdeep and eventually became a landmark of the city."

Age ~27: 1479 DR in western Cormyr [roughly 1050 miles / 1690 km southeast of Waterdeep]: "While recuperating in a cabin in the King's Forest, Elminster felt Mystra's presence calling to him. He found her much diminished, possessing the body of a bear that had guarded a cache of items Mystra's still-mortal form had collected. She asked her most trusted servant to find new candidates to become Chosen and to recruit Cormyr's War Wizards. Only a few weeks later, having been restored to his full powers as a Chosen by absorbing the silver fire of the dying Symrustar Auglamyr and then that of the Simbul and Manshoon, Elminster returned to Mystra (in agony from absorbing too much of it) and returned much of it to the Lady of Mysteries, restoring much of her power and divinity. This event became known as Mystra's Return."

I'm assuming that Elminster's acquaintance with Gale must have begun sometime after this because otherwise you'd think Gale would have mentioned "oh yeah she's not actually dead, we've been banging for a while now."

Mystra reestablishing contact Elminster, regaining some of her power, and the rest of the world learning that she was alive is pretty huge and therefore must have been a significant turning point in her relationship with Gale as well.

I'm also assuming that Gale did not become one of Mystra's official Chosen until after this, since it seems like Mystra's Chosen weren't active while she was laying low and letting the world think she was dead?

Ages ~30 to ~35: 1482 DR to 1487 DR worldwide: "The Second Sundering, also known as the Sundering of Toril and Abeir, was a great catastrophic event in the history of the worlds of Abeir and Toril."

Age ~32: 1484 DR worldwide: "Most of the gods created many Chosen among mortals, trying to gather as much power as possible to be as high in divine ranking as they could before Ao completed the new Tablets of Fate, sealing their status and portfolio. People started to claim they had been 'chosen' by the gods and granted special powers, some apparently for 'divine purposes' while others had no idea why."

It's possible that Gale was recruited to be a Chosen of Mystra by Elminster per Mystra's instructions to Elminster to find candidates, but given that the gods were also choosing people directly during this period and that Mystra had a preexisting relationship with Gale, she may have also Chosen him directly herself. Poor Elminster out there trying to find the best candidates and then Mystra surprises him by adding her boyfriend to the roster. Gale being a nepotism hire despite having otherwise been qualified would be pretty funny.

Age ~34: 1486 DR in Waterdeep: "Neverwinter and Waterdeep began to clear the rubble in their cities that had built up over a century of neglect."

Hey, remember when Gale said that he used to be able to levitate an entire tower back when he was an archmage? Maybe this is when he was doing stuff like that.

Age ~35: 1487 DR worldwide: "Stars reportedly fell from the sky, gods long thought dead walked the land and armies led by Chosen clashed everywhere. Major geological instability resulted in numerous earthquakes and volcanoes, as the worlds of Abeir and Toril were separated once again, and areas once consumed by large chasms were restored to their pre-Spellplague status. Ships arrived on the mainland continent from Evermeet, Halruaa, Lantan, and Nimbral—all realms previously thought lost to Toril."

Age ~35: 1487 DR in Candledeep [roughly 650 miles / 1050 km south of Waterdeep] : "In an attempt to fully restore the goddess Mystra and the Weave, Elminster Aumar began his search for Khelben Arunsun's writings on the Weave, heading towards Candlekeep. Laeral and Alustriel Silverhand had also been hiding within the library: the two sisters' duty was to prepare their own destruction, so that no one could use their power to gain control over the Weave." ... "The energies of the destroyed Wards were absorbed by the Shadow King, who then left for Myth Drannor, followed by the three Chosen of Mystra."

Although Gale was likely a Chosen of Mystra by this point, he wasn't one of the three mentioned here.

Age ~35: 1487 DR in Myth Drannor [roughly 1350 miles / 2170 km east of Waterdeep]: "Meanwhile in Myth Drannor, Larloch, the Netherese, and the Chosen of Mystra (allied with the elves) clashed in a catastrophic battle." ... "As Elminster defeated Tanthul in a mage duel, the Netherese enclave crashed atop Myth Drannor. Elminster himself was saved by Mystra, who gained full control over the Weave once more, stopping Shar from turning it into a new Shadow Weave."

Age ~35: 1487 DR worldwide: "As 1487 DR came to a close, the Second Sundering ended with the full return of Mystra and the Weave, the separation of the worlds Abeir and Toril."

Gale was not a character in the novel about these events so any personal involvement would have been minor, but I'm including them in his timeline because he would have been impacted by the "full return" of Mystra to the world. I imagine he would have experienced many of the same issues that spouses of someone just elected to a high-level office go through.

Gale's lack of personal involvement in Mystra's restoration despite being her Chosen AND her lover is kinda weird, which makes me wonder if things were already starting to sour between them? I really wish that I could lock Ed Greenwood and Jan Van Dosselaer in a room together until they came up with a coherent explanation for what the fuck Gale was up to while all this was going down.

Age ~35 to ~39: 1487 DR to 1491 DR: Sometime during this period must have been when Mystra dumped Gale and he went looking for a lost bit of Weave to win her back but got a Netherese orb lodged in his chest instead.

Mystra was newly back to her full power as the Goddess of Magic and laying down the law, and Gale didn't take that very well:

Gale: "We enjoyed each other's company - body, mind and soul. But even so, I desired more. You see, no matter how powerful a wizard we mortals can become, we never scratch more than the surface of the Weave. Mystra keeps us in check. There are boundaries she doesn't let us cross. Yet every time I was with her, I stood on the precipice, gazing into the wonders that lay beyond. I sought to cross her boundaries." PC: "How exactly did you try to cross those boundaries?" Gale: "I tried to convince her. I pouted, I pleaded, I swore my ambition was only to serve her better. But she only smiled and told me to be contented. As inconceivable as it seems to me now, I shared a bed with a goddess and yet I wasn't satisfied. So I sought to prove myself worthy to her instead."

Gale's description of what happened after she dumped him sounds like it took place over a multi-year period, since I'm assuming that he had to spend some time searching for the "tome of gateways":

Gale: "The goddess spurned the mortal. The veils were drawn once more, and the wizard was left behind heartbroken." ... "Poor wizard. Silly wizard too, for he wouldn't take no for an answer. Like so many of the heartbroken, he did something infinitely foolish. One has to think big if one seeks to win back a goddess. So the wizard thought big." PC: "Define big." Gale: "Here goes: Once upon a time, very long ago, a mighty lord lived in a tower. A flying tower to be precise. I'll save his story for another time, but the gist of it is that he sought to usurp the goddess of magic so that he could become a god himself. He almost managed, but not quite, and his entire empire - Netheril - came crashing down around him as he turned to stone. The magic unleashed that day was phenomenal, roiling like the prime chaos that outdates creation. A fragment of it was caught and sealed away in a book. No ordinary book, mind you: a tome of gateways that contained within it a bubble of Astral Plane. It was a fragment of primal Weave locked out of time - locked away from Mystra herself. 'What if', the silly wizard thought, 'What if after all this time, I could return this lost part of herself to the goddess?'" PC: "What was the answer to his question?" Gale: "The answer was to try, and the outcome was to fail."

Not sure how much Gale was around for the next few events, since he might have been gallivanting around the Astral Plane looking for the tome instead of spending time in Waterdeep. But one assumes he'd notice the physical changes to the city whenever he returned, and that he'd hear about local news from his mother and Tara, so he would certainly be aware that these things happened.

Age ~37: 1489 DR in Waterdeep: "In response to increasing dragon and cultist activity, the Council of Waterdeep was formed, bringing together representatives of realms from all across the Sword Coast. The threat of the Cult of the Dragon was driven home when Masked Lord Arthagast Ulbrinter was assassinated, though it inspired more resolve than fear. In the midst of these events, Open Lord Dagult Neverember was ousted by a vote of the Lords of Waterdeep, replaced by Laeral Silverhand. Although Waterdeep was largely spared due to the dragonward, the Field Ward was still burned to ashes by dragon attacks, displacing huge numbers of people."

Age ~38: 1490 DR in Waterdeep: "The cloud giant castle of Count Nimbolo and Countess Mulara appeared out of clouds and hovered over Waterdeep for a while, triggering mass panic. Heralds sent out by Lady Laeral Silverhand tried to calm citizens and promise that there was no danger. In fact, the giants wanted to research Waterdeep's history and meet its leaders, as they search for traces of the ancient giant realm of Ostoria."

Age ~39: 1491 DR in the Astral Plane (I think?): Gale finds the "tome of gateways" and becomes afflicted with the Netherese orb:

Narrator: "You see through Gale's eyes, staring down the corridors of a dread memory. A book, bound, then suddenly opened. Inside there are no pages, only a swirling mass of blackest Weave that pounces. It's teeth, it's claws, it's unstoppable as it digs through you and becomes part of you. And gods, is it ever-hungry…"

Age ~39: 1491 DR in Waterdeep: Gale begins a year-long isolation in his tower in Waterdeep and eventually stops communicating with anyone except Tara. Not sure exactly when his isolation began relative to the other events of this year, so he may or may not have been personally affected by or even aware of some of the Waterdeep events below.

Age ~39: 1491 DR in Waterdeep: "The returned Eilistraee appeared under the walls of Waterdeep causing an influx in the amount of her followers in the city. They eventually sought out Remallia Haventree and asked her for a holy forest-glade in the ruins of the Field Ward. By Mirtul, the housing crisis in Waterdeep had worsened as a mysterious sickness killed or drove out all of the inhabitants of Downshadow, the Field Ward remained desolated by dragonfire, and Mistshore was burned down by agents of Masked Lord Braethan Cazondur, rendering all three unofficial wards uninhabitable."

Age ~39: 1491 DR in Waterdeep: "Fear threatened to overtake Waterdeep once again as the cloud giant castle of Burruld hovered over the ocean near the city. After the Blackstaff Vajra Safahr panicked and threatened the giants, Open Lord Laeral Silverhand calmed the situation, negotiated with Burruld, and learned that their purpose was to search for the lost daughter of King Skyvald, Princess Irie."

Age ~39: 1491 DR in Waterdeep: "In mid-Mirtul, numerous Masked Lords and other people were gruesomely assassinated as part of Cazondur's conspiracy to seize control of the city. Open Lord Laeral Silverhand, assisted by Elminster and Mirt, worked to maintain order in the city while investigating the murders. While attempting to apprehend Cazondur, Laeral herself was killed and disintegrated by a surprisingly simple trap involving falling rocks, but recovered with Elminster's assistance. An exceedingly dramatic showdown at the Palace of Waterdeep between Laeral and Cazondur in front of assembled servants, nobles and guildmasters resulted in Cazondur's death at the hands of an unexpected third party, Xanathar agents Belvarra Bowmantle and Suthool. Including Cazondur, a total of thirteen Masked Lords and scores of others were slain, and several more Lords publicly unmasked."

Please note that our best guess for the location of Gale's tower puts it couple blocks away from Mirt's Mansion and Gale has mentioned being a patron of the Yawning Portal Tavern, so it seems likely that Gale and Mirt would have been acquainted. If Gale was already in isolation by the time all this went down, perhaps Elminster and Mirt tried dropping by Gale's tower at some point but were repelled by the wards that Gale had set up to keep everyone away? Gale seemed very certain that no one cared about him enough to check on him but I wonder how much of that was the depression talking.

Age ~39: 1491 DR in Waterdeep: "A delegation from the city of Mirabar disappeared while en route to the city, having been waylaid by cultists of the Elder Elemental Eye."

Age ~40: 1492 DR in Waterdeep: Gale abruptly departs his tower and doesn't tell anyone where he's going per Tara's line in his origin, "You left the tower in such a hurry, and you didn't leave an address."

Age ~40: 1492 DR in Yartar [roughly 310 miles / 500 km north of Waterdeep as the crow flies]: Gale is kidnapped by the nautiloid. As explained in a previous post, I believe that he was headed north to find an unpopulated area to die and explode in.

Sources:

FR wiki: Gale Dekarios

FR wiki: Era of Upheaval

FR wiki: Second Sundering

FR wiki: Mystra

FR wiki: Mystra (Midnight)

FR wiki: History of Waterdeep

FR wiki: Yartar

BG3 datamined dialogue transcripts

Map of Faerun

Sad headcanons posted to Tumblr by various people over the past few months that I unfortunately didn't save links to. If you saw something in here that you've posted about then I probably got the idea from you. Please feel free to drop links in the comments so people can read the original post(s) about it, thanks!

[oldschoolfrp]

Armies clash with a kingdom's crown at stake. (Larry Elmore cover for AD&D module I14: Swords of the Iron Legion, TSR, 1988) I14 is "an anthology of adventures set in the Forgotten Realms campaign setting for large-scale battle using the Battlesystem rules for mass combat," with eight linked scenarios, each including an AD&D adventure and a Battlesystem battle, plus three shorter miniature scenarios.

[vintagerpg]

H3: Bloodstone Wars (1987) is the weakest in the series. First indication is the fact that it recycles art. The lone interior illustration originally appeared in H2 and the cover is the same Jeff Easley painting that fronts the Battlesystem box set. Like H2, the Battlesystem usage is optional here, but that fact is also far more puzzling as so much of the module is organized around, well, wars. It’s right there in the title.

It is amidst the battles that the regular adventuring takes place, which is essentially a sortie to remove the assassins that are harrying the good guy officers and hampering the war effort. It’s fine, it just seems like not something the player characters should be handling at this point? Because the underlying theme of the adventure is tied to rulership. The barony is now theirs, the people need their protection and leadership. It seems improbable to have the baron go off to deal with a stronghold of assassins.

The other big problem is the Forgotten Realms logo sneakily stuck on the BACK cover. Where the first two volumes were generic, this one has the additional task of retrofitting Bloodstone to fit into the newly developing campaign setting. Honestly, they do it well enough, but it is still another THING everyone has to CONTEND with. But then, maybe that’s the true lesson of leadership. Heavy is the head that wears the crown and all that.

[spyridonya]

How the Drow Became Problematic Faves - a Badly Written Meta History of D&D

Oh, hey. It feels like newcomers to D&D via BG3 fandom have discovered the Problematic Nature of Drow via Halsin vs Minthara conflict. 

Cut because of talk of racism and it being fucking long.

Let's talk about meta, first. So, the very first usage of 'drow' came from a dialetc of Scots as a term for troll, which was used to talk about all sorts of evil spirits. When Gary Gygax had to make a war game, he decided he'd make evil elves. They were based on 'black elves' in the Prose Edda and saw the word 'Drow' in a dictionary that claimed it was a term for underground elves who were skilled workers in metal. Being a white guy in the late 70s, he saw no issues in making evil elves actually black. For the next decade or so, they were canon fodder for modules and novels and always evil and repugnant. 

In the late 80s and early 90s, R. A. Salavotre and Ed Greenwood slapped on the concept of drow society being an evil dystopian society run by dominatrixes who emasculate men, in the Forgotten Realms setting. There were a few token dark elves, namely the super popular Drizzt Do'Urden, who were good but the majority were not. Like Gary, RA and Ed were white guys who did not see the problem of black elves and putting their kink into deep lore. Not all settings went by this, Dragonlance for example had drow just be ‘evil assholes elves who got kicked out of their society’ and look like just any other elves.  

(Quick note on Drizzt, he became iconic not because of his race but so much as being an outsider to two cultures while being a badass. I might not be a fan personally, but I know the appeal of the character.) 

The 90s came along and by the end of the decade, TSR was bought by Wizards of he Coast who proceeded to make the Drow even Grim Darker during 3rd edition  to go along with the times. Yet, too, didn’t stop to think about the problematic issues that were being brought up by more thoughtful fans - WotC hired another module company who wrote about  drow women being so fucking evil, they an orgasm like reaction when embryo killed each other in the womb. 

4th Edition came and went. No one talks about those times. Drow existed as evil. 

2014, 5e comes along and drow are so fucking popular, they’re included in the Player’s Handbook, rather in errata based books, as ‘humanoid’. In fact other evil races were introduced under the label of ‘humanoid’, indicating orcs and goblinkin. About a year later, Matt Mercer switched up his TTRPG to 5e because it was an easier system for his friends to understand, and they began to show their games online under Critical Role while a year after that Stranger Things came out and became a smash hit. 

Between these two, D&D explodes in popularity with an entirely new demographic group that began to outnumber the old guard. This larger and more diverse popular saw drow and other ‘evil races’ and went ‘wtf’. They didn’t exactly like the concept of ‘an always evil race’ and discovered the problematic issues that collected over the last several decades not with just drow, but with ‘monstrous’ races. 

WotC wanting money began to listen - just really slowly, and not so much in Forgotten Realms.They dropped the ‘always evil’ from the stat block but refused to change anything else to their older settings. 

(Incidentally, the company that made Grim Dark Drow really disliked 4e. They decided to make their own take of 3.5e with Hookers and Blackjack and made Pathfinder, which was supposed to be Edgier Game than D&D. However, a lot of people they hired were quick to notice the nature of the game and say, ‘nah, this shit is stupid’. As of now, Pazio is retconning drow from their lore. - That my friends, is called a character arc.)

During this 46 year span, drow have been fucking evil because their goddess made them do it as justification of their evilness - and not because they were black or born into it. In fact, Lloth, Gruumsh and Maglubiyet are the reasons why the Drow, Orc, and Goblinkin society is so evil and they’re also why they can function as a society when in truth, they all should have fallen apart. And no one has bothered to change this lore. In fact they avoid mentioning this lore rather than changing it to avoid conflict with older fans and newer fans. 

Then BG3 hits and hits harder than anyone expected. A lot of new fans come on aboard and really begin to like Drow, who are super sexy evil elves, not knowing the lore and kicking the problematic issues down the road. Larian was a bit quicker than TSR/WotC to realize ‘wow, this is fucking yikes’ and decided to make Seldarine drow. I’ve been playing since I was young teen, in the last years of 3.xe. I saw a lot of wanna-be Drizzt and Good Aligned Drow that were played variably, but there were a lot of people who loved the concept. While Seldarine aren’t a concept in TTRPG canon proper, the idea of Seldarine drow has existed for decades at tables, and Larian acknowledging that is something I love.

But they made Llothsworn Drow as the ‘lore compliant drow’ because WotC hasn’t changed drow in decades. 

The thing is, Drow being Problematic Faves isn’t because WotC is wildly racist on purpose, it’s just that during the majority of Drow being A Thing in D&D, they have been Sexy and Evil Villains and play the role of Misunderstood Outsider (though this recently has been taken over by tieflings).

In fact, I’m seeing a lot of new fans getting kicked in the teeth when characters react to a Llothsworn drow as flat out evil and not being judged by their actions, because they don’t know it’s been a thing in D&D for years with narrative excuses to justify in-universe racism. And then there are some players who make an evil Llothsworn drow and still get upset despite playing into in-universe reasons for the excuses of racism.

We’re seeing it as a reaction to datamined information with little context other than an abused white guy feels uncomfortable with an abused black woman - and it’s super hard to justify in-universe reasons for this because in the real world, a white guy is going to be listened to and believed regardless of it being true or not.

Essentially, the drow are a fucking mess due to D&D ignoring the racial implications of drow in the real world for nearly 50 years. The only way to fix it is making major lore changes, which is something they’re reluctant to do because they’re making their errata books so damn light on lore as to avoid conflict and the model sells.

Will this change with BG3? I don’t know. But I kinda hope so. 

[knife-dad]

Me: I want to run a new dnd campaign but I don't want to put in as much work as last time so I'll just run a module, this will be easy and fun

Also me: the forgotten realms pantheon is overcrowded and confusing. I'll just change all of it and create some totally new lore. This will be easy and fun

[lunastrophe]

Drow Lore 🕷️ Drow First Mentioned (1e)

Drow officially became part of DnD universe in 1977, mentioned in Monster Manual by Gary Gygax. Their first description was very brief, presenting them simply as polar opposites of light-loving, good-natured elves from the surface:

Drow: The "Black Elves," or drow, are only legend. They purportedly dwell deep beneath the surface in a strange subterranean realm. The drow are said to be as dark as faeries are bright and as evil as the latter are good. Tales picture them as weak fighters but strong magic-users.

In another fragment, it is mentioned that drow might be responsible for creation of the sahuagin:

The tritons, however, are purported to have stated that sahuagin are distantly related to the sea elves, claiming that the drow spawned the sahuagin.

And... nothing more.

Things like the first version of the history of the drow, first proper descriptions of drow abilities and equipment, first descriptions of drow city, mentions of Lolth and her evil cult - all this stuff was published a bit later, in 1978, in several Dungeon Modules for Greyhawk setting.

The World of Greyhawk is also a DnD setting, but different from Forgotten Realms. Basically, it is a part of Realmspace, but on a different planet than Faerûn (Greyhawk - planet Oerth, Forgotten Realms and Faerûn - planet Abeir-Toril). Forgotten Realms setting officially became a thing after 1987.

By the way, the first drow city ever mentioned in official DnD sources was...

...NOT Menzoberranzan 😉

It was Erelhei-Cinlu, located in Greyhawk's Underdark:

[thydungeongal]

what would be best setting if i want to run a game about nobodies but not as much dungeon crawling as being mercenaries or gangsters and other picaresque things?

not necessarily official i just want to see what worldbuilding for actual games looks like

(ty for the answer btw)

I think Brancalonia (a "Spaghetti fantasy" setting inspired by medieval Italy) might be worth looking at. It explicitly lists picaresques among its many inspirations. I haven't read it but the aesthetic does look fantastic and based on the ad copy it is clearly more about smaller, personal narratives than epic storylines.

As far as official D&D settings go, Greyhawk is a bit more grounded in tone than Forgotten Realms at least based on the few adventure modules canonically set in Greyhawk I've read.

Not a setting but a game, but Errant (a cool lil fantasy RPG that takes after an old-school D&D lineage) doesn't come with a premade setting attached, but I feel it still has a very clear implied setting (I mean all RPGs have an implied setting but some more so than others). There's a free version of it available, which only lacks the art. The text is still there.

And finally I think Warlock! also has an implicit setting that is very supportive of that style of play. Warlock! is not a D&D-like at all, more like if someone made a hybrid of the system in the Fighting Fantasy game books and early Warhammer Fantasy. It's a quite fun game and definitely has a very grim tone with little room for heroics.

[dndhistory]

426. Gary Gygax - Saga of Old City (1985)

The first novel set in Greyhawk (well, nominally the second as Andre Norton's Quag Keep already had scenes set in the city of Greyhawk, although it predated the official TSR novels), this would be one of only two official TSR Greyhawk novels written by Gygax. There would be a follow up, Artifact of Evil, in early 1986, but with Gygax exit from the company that year it would be the end of the official TSR Greyhawk novels starring Gord, the Rogue. It wouldn't be the end of the story though, as Gygax would continue to write Gord, the Rogue and publish these novels in his new label, New Infinities. These would consist of three more volumes in 1987 and two more in 1988. 

Greyhawk as an official TSR setting would survive Gygax's exit as would novels set in that world. Rose Estes would pick up on the world and write six more novels after Gygax's exit up to 1989. Then the world would be pretty much dead in terms of fiction up until the 2000 when a couple more novels, adapting adventure modules, mostly, would come out. It would never reach close to the level of popularity of the novels set in Dragonlance or the Forgotten Realms. 

In terms of story Saga of Old City is a good introduction to the Gord character, you follow him from being a young orphan abused by a relative who got saddled with him, and then see him take on an Oliver Twist twist, by becoming a beggar under the control of a Fagin-like Beggarmaster. Later on, freed from beggar bondage Gord develops his thieving skills and eventually becomes a kind of mercenary/adventurer by the time the novel ends. A bildungsroman set in a fantasy world, it isn't that great at characterizing Greyhawk as a setting and it often feels too indebted to Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser to be its own thing. Shockingly enough for an official TSR novel it also has plenty of profanity and amoral actions by the "heroes", something that would eventually disappear with the institution of a more stringent official TSR "code of ethics" in the early 90s. A pity.